[StormChaser]

STL - thanks! i have started - but with Audible. Finding it hard to internalize because its fairly abstract. Reminds me a lot of The Alchemist.

Time for some journalling...

Weeellllll. I seem to have over estimated the done-ness of my wonderful W. Granted MLCers cycle, so we'll just hope its a case of that jumping back into the tunnel, but I just don't know anymore.

As I posted earlier, there were many signs of her thinking of me. What I didn't realize was that she wasn't being completely up front about her feelings on some of these things. More interesting, she wasn't being up front with herself about some of it.

My W seems to have issues around inability to share her true feelings, her expectations of herself and others, and her inability to put herself first. Common things that I've seen talked about on many threads both by LBSs and about MLCers. In my case, as our marriage crumbled, I consistently failed to meet her expectations because I was taking her for granted. On top of that, she failed to share how desolate and alone I was making her feel. She put on a brave face and I took that hook line and sinker.

She took herself to a dark place because she couldn't fix our marriage. Well, it turns out that it takes two to fix it, and if one of you is unaware of how sh!tty it is it makes it even harder. Now, I'm totally aware so that makes things much different...

My mirror work has been about being accountable to myself and to my family, about about being present and lastly about serving others before myself. I've been acutely aware of where I'm at and how I'm trying to move forward. However, I've noticed that I'm also completely unable to to share my feelings with my W. I don't know if this is protection, fear, trust, something else?

So, her actions are that since she came back home at Christmas time, she re-initiated an intimate relationship, and started sleeping in our bed again. As well, in our day-to-day, she's become more playful, like the pre-MLC version of her, she has also been doing and even saying things that are forward-looking.

Our day-to-day life has taken on a lot of similarities to our "old" life - pre-BD.

But, she has put back on her "brave face" and very recently when I would send truth darts or very lightly probe about R, I would get push back. "If we're together" in the future or similar type of statements.

Over the last few days, I felt it was too much and the risk of her relapsing into full replay due to harboured resentment or unmet (unvoiced) expectations would increase the longer this continued. So I probed deeper last night, and pushed some buttons. I just felt I had to do it as life really felt insincere. To outsiders, everything was starting to look just fine, but privately to me, she insisted that nothing was sorted out and she had lots of work to do. And she would insist this despite the reconnection moves she made and the planning of future activities together (some significant and others not so much).

So, she monstered. It was like time travel right back to the heart of post-BD. Full on blame and shame. On top of that, a terrible communication pattern that we have re-emerged - she starts to talk about how she feels, but frames it as how I made her feel, or how she believed I felt, and I would jump to defend instead listening to understand. I know that I do this, but she would say something like "You seem to think..." and tack on something that was projection or similar. I would just get triggered... I didn't lose my temper, but I sure didn't make her feel heard.

I confronted her with her actions and said that what she was doing didn't reflect what she was saying. How was I supposed to feel or act? I made it clear to her that I wasn't going to allow history to repeat itself. Allow her to put on the facade and pretend that things were fine when they weren't. She wouldn't answer why she had made those choices.

Joint counselling was brought up and she mentioned something that was a real trigger for her - she felt it would be of value regardless of the future, but that I insisted on pairing it up with moving towards reconciliation. I pointed out that if she chose to leave me, that I wouldn't be interested in having a lovey dovey post-divorce friends that go out for coffee type relationship. That my heart would be broken and that I would move on quickly and completely. Some of this is spite, as it could move our current relationship forward, but it is also a bit of a 2x4 to a line right out of the manual.

Of course, she took that as a threat. That irony is lost on our dear MLCers. I gently reminded her that the week after bomb drop, she said that we would need to get divorced, and I've had that reality to think about an awful lot since then, and truly believed that it was pretty much inevitable until Christmas. She had no answer to that...

So, despite the seeming progress, there are some big hurdles.

Haven't even mentioned that fact that I know that she is very occasionally sexting with a married ex-boyfriend. As she doesn't know that I know, I'm struggling with how to put a boundary around that without revealing that I've been cyber snooping on her. For now, I'm choosing to just work towards letting go of the snooping and letting her work towards being honest. But that's a tough road to travel too.

Interestingly enough, she had an IC appointment this morning. She didn't tell me that she did. I had contacted our counsellor this morning to try and talk through what I'm feeling without knowing that they were meeting. Our IC did talk to me after and shared some things that they talked about. Told me that my W should be coming to me with a letter outlining some of the things she's going through.

So, I'm discouraged, frustrated, and unsettled. It didn't feel good to be talking with the monster again. However, I do feel that I did the right thing in confronting the complacency that was emerging in our lives. I don't want to go back to where we were. Big sigh. At least the next little while will be interesting.

[Whyus]

Hi Stormchaser.
It sounds like your getting somewhere slowly at least.
I just read my post on your thread, it must have been a day or 2 before I found out about OM :-(. I knew inside that there was someone but I still wanted to believe her lies.....  those days are over .

Stay strong.

[StormChaser]

Thanks WhyUs. I'm feeling very good about my mirror work. This resetting of things validated many of the areas I'm trying to work on.

Journaling...

So, Tuesday night was the start of this "reset". Wednesday morning was her appointment with our IC. She didn't say a word to me all day Wed and Thurs. I finally confronted her Friday morning.

The short version: after some monstering, I was able to break through and get some honesty and true feelings from her. It was hard and took almost an hour of back and forth. She finally admitted how she felt, and didn't blame it on me.

The slightly longer version: as she monstered, she went back to the well on a few of her favorite blame topics. She suggested that in the 10 weeks that she has been back in the house that I have gone back to the same "habits" as before. Pure projection as she had fallen back in to an "easy" place - her words not mine.

An interesting pattern my W has when she monsters is to frame her "feelings" in a blame statement. She says things like "you seem to think..." or "when you X I feel...". I pushed her hard on this insisting that I have trouble not defending myself when she is explicitly blaming me for her "feelings".

I didn't really follow the I'm sorry you feel that way playbook on this one. I went after her about what she said about me. I pointed out that I was perfectly happy with where I was, with my growth, with how I've worked on me and the areas of my life and our relationship that I needed to improve. And if she felt that I wasn't meeting her expectations, that she owned that not me. Especially because she hadn't shared those expectations with me. I layered on that if who I am isn't good enough for her, that's her issue not mine, and I'm willing to move on if I'm not good enough. But that would be her choice, not mine.

At some point, she finally broke down and admitted that she didn't feel in control of anything. That she was guilty from letting everyone down (including me, even though she didn't say it). That she was sick and tired of meeting everyone's expectations and didn't know what she wanted or who she was. That she was overwhelmed and didn't know who she was anymore and didn't understand herself. That she felt she couldn't come up for air. She was vulnerable and honest - for the first time in an awfully long time. I saw it fleetingly a couple times in the couple months after bomb drop when I was still in beg, plead and talk about R mode. But when she was in replay, that vulnerability was almost always replaced by the shark eyed alien.

I told her that my expectations of her were for her to find the answers to her own questions and that I would support her in any way I could to help with that.

She said she needed to change, that I wouldn't like who she thought she wanted to be. I told her that was up to me to decide, not her.

I told her she needed to take some time for herself, but she's having trouble doing that (already - and it's been less than a day).

Overall, it finished well. I think things have essentially been reset a bit. I'm curious if she will choose to sleep in our bed together or not. If she will pull back on the physical intimacy. If she'll continue to try and open up more. We are still going on a short family trip with the kids over our Spring Break (next week).

In the overall looking at the journey, she was slipping back in to the tunnel because it was easier than moving forward. I was essentially enabling that by accepting her back into "our" life and not rocking the boat.

I will continue to be true to myself and try to support her to the best of my abilities.

Sorry all for these war and peace length updates...

[Whyus]

Ive heard nearly all these things from my W.
a few weeks back back she said that she didnt want me to think that our marriage was bad (i know it wasnt). It was all good, im a great guy who most women would appreciate more than she does, she knows I will make my next W really happy (WTF, why cant you be happy with me then?). Its all about her and not me... and then. "Dont get your hopes because we have been getting on well the last week or, im never coming home, I need my own appartment and space".

Just last we were on the phone talking about the house, finances and the kids. It was a normal conversation. The next minute with a totally different tone in her voice. " i just want to say that you need to get over me, the woman you love is gone. I am not her anymore and she will never come back. Im a different person now and you wont like this person. You will never be happy with this person. You dont deserve this person, she is not good for you".
That scared the crap out of me! Still does

[UrsaMajor]

a few weeks back back she said that she didnt want me to think that our marriage was bad (i know it wasnt). It was all good, im a great guy who most women would appreciate more than she does, she knows I will make my next W really happy (WTF, why cant you be happy with me then?). Its all about her and not me... and then. "Dont get your hopes because we have been getting on well the last week or, im never coming home, I need my own appartment and space".

Just last we were on the phone talking about the house, finances and the kids. It was a normal conversation. The next minute with a totally different tone in her voice. " i just want to say that you need to get over me, the woman you love is gone. I am not her anymore and she will never come back. I'm a different person now and you won't like this person. You will never be happy with this person. You don't deserve this person, she is not good for you".

Script... Right to the letter..... Every Mid-Lifer has said that in one form or another... more than once... All variations on the "You'll be happier without me." pity party that gives them justification for being a firetrucking idiot...

That is the PERFECT occasion for the "I'm Sorry you feel that way." because at that point, it is a heck of a truth dart.... Sure made MY Mid-Lifer stop dead in her tracks (and in her Pity Party)...

[Seeing The Light]

Hi SC... I think you did a great job on managing what happened with your W and her sliding backwards.  I know that from reading the HB posts that there are times where you have to do this with them, to force them moving forward again.  And you handled it VERY well.  Now, keep moving forward yourself with all of the good work you are doing for yourself... she will marinate on that for a while. 

[StormChaser]

Thanks STL and thanks UM for the note on Gman's thread.

I'm constantly surprised at how my W seems to be able to compartmentalize her life. On the one hand she's so clearly disappointed with herself and what she's done, but on the other, she has returned to many of her (good) pre-MLC ways.

The most significant change in the week since I confronted her has been a slight pull back in affection. She's still talking about the future (our summer plans as a family). She's started to talk to me a bit about the work she is doing in her IC. We are working together to start moving and cleaning out the rental that we have had since BD but haven't used since Christmas. We had a very nice family vacation last week and spent some quality time travelling.

I've noticed that I'm wrestling with how I treat my kids right now. Very impatient with two of the three and almost overly patient with the third. Not sure what's causing it but I need to do some mirror work on that immediately.

The other night, I was able to point out to my wife that going out to different activities by herself isn't necessarily giving her the time to "work" on herself that she feels she needs, but that its ok as long as she understands the difference.

I'm working on improving my Words of Affirmation for her. I had a good talk with a close friend about it a couple weeks ago and wasn't able to implement the changes before our little hiccup. So, with our trip last week and being back home now, I'm trying it out to see how it feels for me.

Other than that, some tremendous work stress, that may be part of how I'm treating the kids, but I'm handling it.

Just looking forward to a couple weeks where no one is travelling away. See how it all plays out.

[StormChaser]

Quick journalling moment...

I anticipated a bit of a rougher ride after I confronted her, but its been pretty smooth.

I'm also finding that its giving me a little more confidence in shooting truth darts and pushing her to be consistent.

I've done a couple "if we're together" barbs after she talked about something forward looking, but instead of getting her agreement that would come before, now she's just giving me a look of "I see what you did there".

We are getting closer to discussing R, but still not there. I started a frank discussion the other day about my role in contributing to her crisis. I said that I will always regret what I've done to make her feel unloved. And that I understood her not trusting me, but to realize that what I did will make it so hard for me to take her for granted again. She definitely took it in. Saw that she accepted it instead of monitoring against it.

I'm going to go with a mantra of "things that don't move us backward, move us forward".

[StormChaser]

Been way too long since I journaled.

So, to start, cycling sucks big time!

Long story short, my W is definitely wired to jump back into the tunnel when required. She is still nowhere near remorse. In fact, I'm not so sure she is even really feeling guilt.

So, a little less than a month ago, I confronted her on her words not aligning with her actions. Where her actions were very much "acting as if" we were married again.

She resolved that by stopping talking about how uncertain she was about the future, but still kept thinking the same things. However, she continued the actions of planning future "family-like" things. Talking about purchasing furniture, vacation planning, summer plans, etc.

I finally woke up to what was going on when we had a discussion last week that escalated into her monstering at me. She reverted back to blaming and shaming. Ironically she really had to dig deep to find something that I wasn't doing. I'll admit that I'm no Ursa when it comes to being super dad, but I've completely picked up my game compared to what I was doing pre-BD. She suggested that I was happy to just pretend that things were ok. I tactfully pointed out that this was much more projecting than anything else. If I was so happy, why was I the only one who was saying that her words weren't aligning with her actions? Everyone else, who doesn't know her, felt that she seemed so happy lately. And of course she had no answer for that...

I spent most of Friday and Saturday working through what was going on in my head. Trying to understand what was going on for me. How did my mirror work relate to what was going on? To be honest, it felt almost like a mini-BD as I had started to believe that things were changing.

I realized a couple things. By thinking we were on the road to reconciling, I threw out my boundaries and started to build expectations. Although my wife is acting as if we were a happy couple, she seems to be reverting to pre-BD behaviour of bottling up her emotions and just "toughing it out". Of course, there is still nothing I can do that will change her behaviour. I can just control my own.

So, I booked an appointment with my IC to talk through some of this. The IC asked my W if she could share some of the things from their sessions when she met with me and my wife said yes. Single most interesting thing I heard was that my wife was afraid of losing me "as a friend". Oh and that the IC felt that this one of the hardest cases she's ever had.

So, my wife will be home in about 6 hours and I've told her we have some things to talk about.

I will be providing some new boundaries. I will be asking her to describe how friends treat each other in her world. I will be asking her to contrast how that description aligns with how she has treated me over the last year. I will suggest to her that we don't "act as if" we are married if she is still very uncertain that she wants to stay married. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

An interesting new chapter... See you all on the other side of this.

[Seeing The Light]

Trying to understand what was going on for me. How did my mirror work relate to what was going on? To be honest, it felt almost like a mini-BD as I had started to believe that things were changing.

I realized a couple things. By thinking we were on the road to reconciling, I threw out my boundaries and started to build expectations. Although my wife is acting as if we were a happy couple, she seems to be reverting to pre-BD behaviour of bottling up her emotions and just "toughing it out". Of course, there is still nothing I can do that will change her behaviour. I can just control my own.

Yes, ME TOO!  I think it's interesting how as soon as things start moving to reconciliation that we let our boundaries down and start building expectations again.  This is where I find the disappointment hitting and also anger building up, for both of us.  I have to keep going back and reminding myself of what I have learned in my own mirror work... to stay focused in the moment, to actively listen to what H is saying and NOT reacting, to use the 24 hour rule.  I find that when I go hind brain with H (reaction mode), that he does too, and then we are both spinning and it quickly escalates to anger and arguing.  Yet when we both remain calm, or when one of us remains calm while the other loses it, things are better.  It's the frigging expectations that cause it to get bad though and shut down communication for us.

I will be providing some new boundaries. I will be asking her to describe how friends treat each other in her world. I will be asking her to contrast how that description aligns with how she has treated me over the last year. I will suggest to her that we don't "act as if" we are married if she is still very uncertain that she wants to stay married. I'm curious to see how this plays out.

An interesting new chapter... See you all on the other side of this.

Good for you... this sounds like a conversation that needs to happen.  I've found that establishing a friendship with my H again was important to us moving forward.  It seemed to create a foundation for us to move into something better again... better than it was before.  Knowing what friendship really means to her will be important to rebuilding a relationship.  Hope that things are going well!