[KellBell]

Starting my third thread early since this one will mostly be about reconciling. Here's the link to my second thread

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11902.msg789988#msg789988

Quick recap

bomb drop on 7/2021.
He immediately moved out, taking only a few suitcases and moving a state away. Told the kids he didn't want to be a dad anymore and the whole "I love you but not in love with you".
Divorce was final in 2/2022. I focused on myself; growing and healing.
Reconnected in 6/2022. Started "dating" long distance in 8/2022.
Spent a year doing long distance, counseling, AA and taking it slow.
Moved back in together in 8/2023 and remarried in 9/2023.

His crisis was very much depression centered. He did have childhood issues to work on involving his parents. And they reared their ugly head when depression hit the hardest. He spun into a crisis, wanting to change everything, have a do over and get the things he felt he gave up or missed out on.

We went to counseling for about 8 sessions (I went to more by myself and had been since he left). Counseling gave us the tools to communicate better, judge less and manage expectations. He never would have gone but it was nonnegotiable. If he wanted to get back together then we were doing it. He worked through some old issues, insecurities and trauma from his parents.

I've asked him to answer some questions on here when he's ready. So hopefully he's able.

[UrsaMajor]

Following along on the next part of your adventure

[Biscuit]

Yes, like UM I'm following along. Glad for all the positives in your life right now!

If Mr KB does feel brave to answer questions then I'm sure the forum will be very appreciative. Not often we hear from folk that are back out of the other side of this. Good on him for even thinking about it - I can't imagine it's easy to delve back into where his mind was when all this blew up.

[Baxter1]

I love your statement at the bottom of the page, makes a lot of sense. Also yes if he is willing to answer questions I’m sure that would be helpful to many.

[mcm64d]

Hi KB!!

Yours is truly a remarkable story. I am so happy for you and your kids. Going into the holiday season family intact must be exhilarating. Thank you for sharing and looking forward to more insights.

[Flummoxed]

Following along as well!

[thissucks7788]

Following.

[KellBell]

I asked my husband to answer some questions that seem all too common place and all too confusing for the LBS. I asked the questions and he typed the answers.


Do you want to introduce yourself or start off saying anything?
       ** Hi. I'm the husband. 46 years old.

Why were you so sure I was the problem? No other possibilities- just certain I was the cause of all your unhappiness when we had been married for 25 years?
    ** Wow. Nothing like getting right to the tough questions. Basically a tiny seed of resentment set in at some point. I can't even tell you when or what but it kept growing. It got to the point that I hated the things about you that I once loved your humor, ideals, values. It felt like everything just annoyed me. And I didn't know why just that I didn't like being around you. I started wondering if I ever did love you. Because I was just so sure I was never happy. How could I have been happy with someone that was annoying me so much. Which is nuts because I love those things about you. You are caring, smart, loyal and loving. But I just felt suffocating and annoying at your superiority.  I think now as I look back it really was my insecurities. You were stronger and better than me. And I already felt bad about myself so it was like you were throwing it in my face. You weren't. but that's how it felt. I think it's really a blame game. I can't blame myself. And some one is the cause. You were there my whole life so it must have been you. It's a crazy rational but it's a crazy time.

So that kind of feeds into my next question- why did you say "You had never loved me...that you loved me but not in love"?
   **We were young when we met. It felt realistic to admit that I might not know what love was. But being as unhappy as I was I knew I couldn't love you. At my breaking point and a year or two leading up to that I only saw you as the mother of my kids and not as my partner or wife. That admission made it easier to do things that might hurt you if I loved you like you were my wife. it definitely made it easier to leave. I believe I said it to more to convince myself and make it easier to be selfish and act that way.

We've talked about this but I think it's important to note. How frustrating was I when you first left? How did the calls and texts resonate with you?
     ***Oh man. We have talked about this and it made it worse. I was already feeling bad because a big part of me knew I was being a coward and chicken sh*t by running and not facing our issues but I was in full avoidance mode and your questions and issues kept bringing me back to my responsibilities and failures. There were lots of things I hadn't thought through when planning to leave. it felt like you kept nagging about feelings and adult issues that were just too much for me to face. I was already frustrated with you and us. Those phone calls and texts made it worse. I will say after a time when you quit calling and texting and returning texts that really jarred me. My mind would spin and I would start wondering what you were doing or who you were with. You also always seemed so pleasant and nice to me when you definitely shouldn't have been because I didn't deserve it. Maybe cordial is a better word like the way you wouldn't feed into my arguments. I think in a way I trying to make you angry so you would react and then I would feel validated in my leaving because you were a nag or whatever.

Is there anything else you want to add or share?
    *** I guess I just want to say that it's really not about the spouse. It really isn't. If you would have asked me why I messed up my marriage right after leaving I could have 100% told you it was Kellbell's fault. I understand now that it was really my fault and my problems. There are a lot of messed up people out there. There are people who aren't equipped with the tools to process and deal with depression and insecurity and past issues. When I look back I feel like a spoiled kid that threw the biggest tantrum ever. And I couldn't be with Kell because she held me to account. It felt like she was forcing me into a life I didn't want with things I didn't want to deal with. I think it built up until something gave way and I had to leave to find happiness. I do want to say that it was never Kell's fault. She is not the same person I married back when we were kids. She is a better person. She was growing up and I felt like things weren't fun anymore and she had lots of friends and I felt unfriendable. She was really liked by our community family and friends and I felt like I should be grateful she married me. I mean I do feel grateful now and even more thankful she did it twice but before I just kept feeling I was being knocked down a notch. I'm trying to explain why we blame the spouse but I'm not sure it's making sense. I am so happy that I realized how lucky I am to have Kell. I call her my sunshine. She shined light and happiness into my life when things didn't seem very bright. Those around her can't help but feel warm and loved.



Those are the hard questions we've talked about.  The ones that confused me the most. And it just boils down to the spouse with the MLC needs time to figure it out on their own. My husband's time away from our family and me was both eye opening and dark. He was very isolated. Tried doing all the things he thought he missed out on by having a family young but they didn't bring the happiness he was looking for. I think we were lucky in the sense that our family and friends for the most part took my side and were like "what are you doing!?" Those questions made him dig his heels in more but also planted the seed of doubt.

My husband also mentioned that he didn't just wake one day and realize what a mess he had made. It took time to build up. The same way his resentment for me did.

My biggest take away is preventing this from happening to our children. The example we as parents set for them and the way we raise them will stay with them forever. Give them the tools and communication skills to talk about things and address issues before it's too late. Neither my husband or I had a good example of marriage. My parents divorced when I was three and his were married but very superficial and proper. Not very emotional which was also how he was raised. Not much hugging or talking. Just a lot of expectations and criticisms. My mom raised me with lots of love but as a single mother who was always gone working several job and leaving me to take care of my brothers. Anyway- maybe that's something we can all take to heart and focus on through the crap. Do better for our kids. Stop the trauma. Just a thought.

[forthetrees]

Thanks to the both of you for posting that. It does make me curious as to if it applies to my ex. Not that I´m gonna ever know, but a twinge of curiosity nonetheless is present.

Yes, to MLC proofing your kiddos. That is a noble mission.

[Flummoxed]

Agreed, thank you both so much for sharing. It breaks your heart, but they’re the only ones who can pull themselves out and it really has nothing to do with the LBS. 💗

[xyzcf]

I also thank both of you for sharing your wisdom here.....it's familiar...others who have returned to talk about what they were thinking have expressed similar thoughts....it's really not unusual, we've heard it several times.....these insights help a great deal to understand the "pathology" and what our spouses might be experiencing...yes, each situation is different but the similarities are uncanny.

KellBell, thank you for being open and willing to work to rebuild your marriage. Without your commitment, your husband could not have returned. You grew, you healed and you allowed the possibility of resolving the destruction to your life and family.

Sometimes people fear that if newbies read stories of reconnection that somehow that will prevent them from getting on in their lives. Newbies often need something to hold onto until the time comes when they are healed enough to let go.

As your husband has made very clear...this is not about us. Always hard to get our heads around that in the early days but it's 100% true.

So, I hope you continue to communicate and to grow in love once again. So great to hear your story! Thank you.

[Treasur]

Thank you from me too, to both of you. It takes courage to look at some of those questions I’d imagine particularly as your focus now must be on rebuilding and the normal stuff of life. But it’s such a bewildering time for the LBS here, with such a lot of self-doubt, that I imagine it might be really helpful for some just trying to figure out why up is suddenly down.

Tbh even as someone years on who has largely made peace with the reality that a spouse I loved so much, who I honestly believed loved me too did what he did in the way that he did it, who has long since vanished, it leaves questions that pop back up occasionally. And it’s hard to always answer those questions in the absence of the other person, especially the ones about how real those twenty+ years of my own life were. So, there’s a little comfort in it for me too even if my story turned out differently. I chuckled a bit at your h’s description of a kind of life tantrum….but it made sense. Sad, but it made sense.

We all wish you both the best from here on.

[Baxter1]

As a ‘newbie’ reconnection stories are very important, at least they were for me. Knowing that sometimes there can be a reconnection has given me some hope. No one knows what will happen but if both sides are willing to Do the work then sometimes it works out.

[WHY]

Kell on behalf of all LBS.  We are very happy for you.  It sounds like your MLCer is in genuine recovery.   Accepting responsibility for his actions and doing what it takes to make things right.  Good for you.  I know it wasn’t an easy journey. 

My question: does you H have this “selective memory” issue I keep reading about.   Once the fog lifted.  Did he remember everything he said and did?  Were there any discrepancies and if so.  Do you think him not remember is genuine or just another way of not facing the music? 

Another thought I keep having is that we sort of give our MLCers a free pass because they suffer a mental breakdown and it “wasn’t them” and they were possessed, mental illness etc etc.  over exaggerations but you know what I mean.  However, this mental illness “ seems to be cured by their dream life not working out.  I don’t understand the pathology of it all.  But that does sound like mental illness it’s cured by their dream life not working out.  That feels like something else. 

Good for you Kell.

[MadLuv]

Thank you for coming back and to you H, XH, H  ( I put this because it is good for those to know you did go through a complete divorce and remarriage) offering to answer those questions for you to post. I have always thought it would be great to compile a list of most wanted answers to give to those willing to answer. Thank you for asking him and thank him for answering.

[KellBell]

why- I didn't give him a free pass. And I don't think any LBS should. I wasn't sure what my limit of tolerance was but as soon as I hit it then that would be it. I also think that once we were legally divorced that was it. Actually a little before. I didn't care what he did. I didn't want to know. When we did interact, I was often disappointed. So I was good just leaving him to be. Every LBS has their limit, that point of no return. Once the divorce is over (if you haven't already) live like it's over. Grieve the relationship and move on. If you come back together it will need to be from a place of healing on both parts.

As for selective memory, it's strange. We talk about things and he's like "Really!? I said or did that? That's not how I remember it". I think it's more of the filter they were living through. He saw me and our life and our divorce one way...through his view and perspective. And I also think it's hard for them to fathom being so hurtful and they bury those moments. They don't want to dwell on those moments when they were jerks. It's embarrassing and shameful. And really it just adds to their insecurities. We made it a point in our marriage to move on from that time. We talk about it at times, but for the most part just looking forward. He knows he hurt me and the kids. And he's appreciative for the second chances we've all given him.

A side note- when trying to understand their thinking and thought process, I found it helpful to read about the id, ego and super ego and how they need to be in balance to function properly. And certain experiences or breaks in the psyche can cause an imbalance and regulating impulses becomes difficult. That coupled with depression and trying to 'fix' that darkness and fill the hole with impulses is a good way to look at it.

Standing is hard. Really the hardest action to take. And a lot of standers are standing in hopes to get back their marriage as it was. And the sad truth is - it will never be that again. So grieve. Mourn the loss of a long term relationship/marriage and start processing that a huge part of your life. Accept that it isn't fair and it sucks. Then reaffirm your worth. That you deserve better. Heal yourself so you are in a place to deal with reconciliation if it comes. And if it doesn't - you are healed enough to try with someone else.

[Imgood]

Hi KellBell, thank you for sharing your journey. I follow several threads so please forgive me if you’ve addressed this already…what is your marriage like now? How similar or dissimilar is it compared to before everything imploded? For the most part, is your husband like the husband you knew or is he quite different? I appreciate your side note and I am going to do some research/reading regarding it. I’m curious, does “time” just rebalance the id, ego and super ego for “the lucky” mlcers??

[KellBell]

Hi KellBell, thank you for sharing your journey. I follow several threads so please forgive me if you’ve addressed this already…what is your marriage like now? How similar or dissimilar is it compared to before everything imploded? For the most part, is your husband like the husband you knew or is he quite different? I appreciate your side note and I am going to do some research/reading regarding it. I’m curious, does “time” just rebalance the id, ego and super ego for “the lucky” mlcers??

Our marriage is really good. Hard to explain because I thought our marriage was fine before he left. We talk through things a lot more. more effort in trying to understand the other's viewpoint or concerns. We don't fight really. There are deep rooted issues that they(the MLCer) either brought into the marriage or an issue that happened early on in the relationship and it's like a ticking time bomb. It is really just a matter of time before they explode and have had enough and focus solely on themselves. In our case, he had some childhood issues with his parents and family life that I never really knew about and that affected the way he saw himself and his worth. He also felt a little resentment towards me for getting pregnant and "derailing the life he imagined". That tiny seed just kept growing and festering. Then you sprinkle on teenagers, work stress, health issues and everyday up and downs and it just becomes too much.

I don't really feel much different in my role in our relationship. In my heart I know I'll be fine if we don't work out and I think that gives me a sense of calmness. He's really trying to be an involved father, reconnect with older children and give me attention and appreciation. We both equally make time for each other and US even though we are leading busy lives. That's all new. We were really focused on our children for a long time and lost sight of our relationship. We now prioritize it. I see a lot of growth and effort on his part. More than ever before and to me that's a sign of growth. There are still things that frustrate me but the good far outweighs the bad.

Many of us LBS want nothing more than to get our spouses back and to get our families back. But from the moment they drop that bomb- those things are forever changed. And what was can't be again. If you get back together- it will be different. Your family will be different. Dynamics and relationships are different. So I just really encourage all LBS to mourn and process the loss, because it's important to acknowledge the loss and grieve. I think it's the only way we can move on and focus on ourselves, our children and the future (whatever that is).

[OffRoad]

I like how you explain it, as I see it that way. The person who left was not the person we married. It's not logical to think if they come back they'd be what they were originally. All our life experiences make up all of who we are.

I wish I understood "shame" better. In my world, you make mistakes, you acknowledge, apologize and seek to make amends. As long as you do that, there is no "shame" because you've tried to set the scales back to balance. I suppose it might be that some actions are so hurtful that a person can't make it right, or balance, in their own conscience.  But my xh had shame for simply being, and I just have no frame of reference.

I'm glad things are going well for you and your family. And thank you for asking your H the questions and thank him for having the courage to answer.

[KayDee]

I wish I understood "shame" better. In my world, you make mistakes, you acknowledge, apologize and seek to make amends. As long as you do that, there is no "shame" because you've tried to set the scales back to balance. I suppose it might be that some actions are so hurtful that a person can't make it right, or balance, in their own conscience.  But my xh had shame for simply being, and I just have no frame of reference.

I believe the professional definition and distinction between guilt and shame  - guilt = I did bad, shame = I am bad. My IC told me in our very last session that a psychologist (whose name I forget) said that shame is the toddler with their arms out-streteched (to be picked up/comforted) and nothing comes back.  That was a hard image to hold. The therapist Patrick Teahan has a fantastic podcast called 'Our Whole Childhood' - I really recommend it, MLC or not 

Thank you KB for your updates, they always make a lot of sense to me.

[Happylight]

Thank you so much for providing the insight and we really appreciate your H sharing as well. 
You stated that realizing the mess he made was gradual.  I would be interested in hearing more about the inner thoughts on the processing through.  How did realizing the mess he made look on the outside.  Did he start moving back toward you before he even finished processing all of that or was moving back toward you still partly in the fog at first, or did he start moving back toward you when he was fully snapped out of it? 

Also, where in the timeline did the AA come in?  Was that on his own? 

Again, thank you so much for sharing.

[KellBell]

Thank you so much for providing the insight and we really appreciate your H sharing as well. 
You stated that realizing the mess he made was gradual.  I would be interested in hearing more about the inner thoughts on the processing through.  How did realizing the mess he made look on the outside.  Did he start moving back toward you before he even finished processing all of that or was moving back toward you still partly in the fog at first, or did he start moving back toward you when he was fully snapped out of it? 

Also, where in the timeline did the AA come in?  Was that on his own? 

Again, thank you so much for sharing.

Hi- sorry it took so long to get back. I only check back every so often. But as to your questions...I think he just finally got to such a low point and a dark place that he had two choices- keep going on that crappy path or figure things out. He was very isolated. He up and left to another state and didn't know anyone. And the mutual people we knew were like "you did what!? why?". He was lonely and the bachelor life wasn't what he thought. Every time he would visit the kids it was awkward and forced. The girls and I would all hang out and do weekly dinners and he would hear about it secondhand and feel left out.  The first month I yelled at him, asked to please talk about things and move slower. After that I was just detached, he was going to do what he wanted and no amount of energy on my side was going to sway him. So I focused on me and the kids. I didn't yell anymore. I only talked to him when I needed to. Set personal boundaries with him. And really started focusing on myself and my future. I went back to school, started exercising, hanging out with friends more and got a job. On my end- it was to keep me busy so I could detach from his mess but on his end he started seeing me as someone other than the a mom. Seeing me move on and succeed was heartbreaking for him. Heartbreaking because he felt guilty for holding me back from being this person (he didn't but he felt guilty and thought I blamed him) and heartbreaking because I was moving on in a good way and he was sinking deeper into darkness.

That's a long way of saying - it was gradual. He said he immediately regretted what he did but felt he had to see it through because something had to change. MLC is based in depression and for whatever reason they really are struggling. I was to blame and he was so sure of it. But then he left and it was just him. I wasn't around to blame and that was eye opening. I also think he realized how much I did. All the little things that he took for granted.  It would have taken him longer and possibly not at all if he had found someone else or successfully transplanted to his new town. I do think that helped our situation.

My younger brother is going through his own MLC and left his long time girl friend, moved across the country and is getting married soon to a 23 year old and now wants to have a baby. He keeps pushing the wedding date and when my mom went to visit said it was very toxic. Last week he texted me asking if he should message his ex or if I had heard from her and how was she doing. I do think he will realize he messed up but will never go back. He would rather live the rest of his life regretting that decision with a dismissive "oh well what are you going to do". So I think it's dependent on the person. Do they think they've done too much or gone too far to ever redeem themselves or see a way back.

My advice would be to focus on you. You can't figure them out or try to fix them. Just be a positive in their life. Set boundaries to minimize the hurt. It's ultimately up to them and you. How much is enough for you? They aren't helpless in this. They do have a say they are just choosing to be selfish and put themselves first to try and fill a hole or fix something. They know it's not right and that you aren't to blame (even if it's just a tiny little notion).