[MadLuv]

MOS- I get it. My XH was on meds and cold turkey stopped  as he also didn’t want to be on them and BD2 happened. He also married the OW and got fired. It is a hard place to be. You can cut the cord, but if you get financial support you can never completely look away.  My XH without a job for 9 mths and then he got one and I was laid off. I think knowing you may have to sell your house is looking ahead for you. Making sure your prepared for whatever happens.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I have been very busy these past few weeks, but I wanted to drop a line and at least wish you a Merry Christmas. It is so good to hear the strength in your voice coming back and it seems that you have found yourself again and that is always a positive.

In the end, I will always care on some level for him, I realize that this is more of a general I hope he is okay and figures himself out.

That is because you were married to him for a long time and had children with him. That doesn't just disappear.  But above all, it just shows that you are a decent person and despite all that has happened to you,  you still have a good heart. 

After two years of therapy, I really do know myself so much better and understand the dynamics that our relationship had that were less than stellar.

That means you had a normal relationship. I have done the same and remember moments in my past marriage where I was less than stellar. It's okay, that is what marriage is all about, celebrating with another person at their highest points and dealing with them at their lowest points. No one is perfect and no marriage is perfect.

Now I worry about my support if he’s struggling as much as she says.  It also appears they are on the brink of breaking up.

I see a huge shift in your mindset. In the past, we would have read an emotion based reaction. This is a rational response to the situation you are in. No matter how we slice it or dice it, you have four children. That means you have to have his support. I think as time passes, you will find the means to be for self-supportive, but that takes time and finding the means to accomplish such a task.

The most positive shift is that you know you have the ability to navigate these troubled waters and feel confident in the choices you are making. That's huge and not only will help you, but will help steady the lives of your precious children. That's why you are Mom of Steel!

Enjoy the holidays with your babies,

(((Ready)))

[MomOfSteel]

I guess I’m on the quarterly update plan these days.  It feels like there is so much going on I don’t have much time for much of anything these days.  Over the last few months, I have continued to get calls from OW whenever they fight.  It seems like they are constantly on the verge of breaking up except that they told me tonight that they are engaged and wanted to tell me before the kids so I wasn’t blindsided.  I’m not really sure how I feel about this.  Luckily I held it together the rest of my chiild’s baseball game and the evening since my kids are still unaware.  I feel like crying but can’t because my kids are around.  I don’t know what I expected, I guess the phone calls telling me that the ex was telling them to list the house, he was moving out, trying to break up with OW multiple times made me feel like the demise of the relationship was imminent not that they would get engaged. 

I think part of me still wants him to realize the huge mistake he made in leaving.  I thought I was over that but I guess I still have some work to do.  I suspect there will always be something that causes uncomfortable feelings, things that trigger echos of the trauma and betrayal.  The grief that still crops up from time to time still catches me off guard. 

In telling me he was engaged he told me that he considers me one of his best friends now.     How do you destroy your best friend and basically destroy almost any sense of self worth they have?  I’ve worked hard to get to where I am now but really feeling like I have value is still a struggle for me.  Most of my interactions with him are small talk because we see each other frequently at the kids events.  I’m not overly friendly, I definitely don’t confide in him, I also certainly don’t consider him a good friend to me. 

I’m also just confused and wish I understood mentally where he is at in this whole crisis.  He had the kids a couple weeks ago when they had a school break.  He texted me frequently just sharing things.  At the time I just thought, huh, this is weird and new.  It’s almost like he’s trying to reconnect a bit but that’s confusing when he just got engaged.  My mind feels like a bowl of gummy spaghetti noodles trying to make sense of this. 

On to better things, I’m headed on a solo international vacation before too long.  I realized I can’t wait for someone to share it with as I may never find someone.  It’s a little scary but I’m excited.  Hopefully I can get my mind off exH and his engagement. 

[KayDee]

Hello Mom of Steel, PhD candidate, if not a doctor already. Smart, funny, capable. Good mother. Compassionate, reflective and generous person. What other values can I list 

What struck me about the 'engagement' is that 1)it's a word 2)it sounds like the declaration of the desperate. To me it actually underlines the dysfunction of the relationship. A relationship that started off on a giant dung heap of dishonesty and betrayal, built on the pain of loved ones and the rubble of destroying others. Then, if I recall correctly, this R needed support of an IC to even keep it's engine revving, and now, somehow, needs you on the other end of the line to keep it steady (see above: beyond the call of compassion, IMO). I'll throw this out there - anyone else know of a relationship that started like this that blossomed into something beautiful? I guess your question, is 'what does this mean to me now?" I get it, because I am in a sort of similar situation. I can see my H's R is pretty dysfunctional. But it's not like I just want him to stroll back through the door. I don't think I am standing, actually. So whether his R sinks or floats shouldn't matter so much to me, right? But ha! Yes, I kinda want it to go down like the titanic too, and this is what I need to unravel for myself. I think, once I have let this go, I will be much more detached. It is quite an ineffable thing to describe though, I think, the pain that we can still feel in response (reaction?) to their behaviours. Maybe it's because some of these things sort of trample on our past? Not sure. But I imagine you will bounce back much quicker from this current hurt - after what you went through the first year, you really are a MoS....

[titleholder]

On to better things, I’m headed on a solo international vacation before too long.  I realized I can’t wait for someone to share it with as I may never find someone.  It’s a little scary but I’m excited.  Hopefully I can get my mind off exH and his engagement.

Oh MoS.. I totally get how hard it must be to hear about this engagement. It's bizar what kind of unstable relationship they choose over everything they had. But you also know that you don't have to be jealous at the relationship they're having and it would probably the relationship he would give you if he still was with you.

Super proud of your solo-trip! *hugs*

[Treasur]

You might not feel like it, MoS, but my word you have come a long way.

In telling me he was engaged he told me that he considers me one of his best friends now.   

Yeah….he’s not your friend, just as you say.
Combining ow’s communications, his texts and indeed their engagement, I found myself wondering if now you might need to stand a bit further back from these two. I understand that you made a choice in the interests of your kids but these two folks - like a lot of disordered folks - don’t have appropriate boundaries imho. So you need to have them in order to stay out of their sandpit imho.

You can be friendly in your manner without being a friend or confidante or source of support to either of them. And after all, what do you actually get from that role? You already have four kids to look after, you don’t need another two.
Ignore - or very minimal responses - to any of his texts that are not child logistics.

Next time ow reaches out to talk about her relationship with your xh - and I hope you can see how f’ed up that is for her to feel she can do that? Or how few friends your xh has, or how little he understands what friendship is, if he thinks it is appropriate to see the wife he abandoned and mistreated as one? - politely say something like sorry to hear that, but I’m not the appropriate person for you to talk to and end the conversation. Next time he has a sadz or wants to talk about his therapy needs, ditto. (And take a beat to remember just how awful your xh was to you not so long ago, and how ow colluded in that, no matter what they say now) I’m not saying you should be nasty, just less involved in their emotions and lives. After all, ha ha, they have each other for support, right? Whereas you were left with just four kids and you and tumbleweed when you needed support and compassion.

There’s a natural time I think, once we are up off our knees as you obviously seem to be, when we can adjust and adapt our choices with a bit more detachment and objectivity in a way we just can’t initially.

And on the engagement issue? Well, other than how your kids feel, not your circus. The evidence of your own eyes tells you that this is not a match made in heaven for either, and that your xh is not magically fixed by leaving you. There is a strong chance, bc it’s so common in humans, that their engagement is just another throw of spaghetti against a wall to magically make themselves feel better. It might stick, it might not. But either way, it truly says nothing at all about you and quite a lot about how they tackle life. Still not your circus though. Normal to have feelings about it of course, perhaps messy ones, or ones about it feeling like the closing of one chapter and the opening of another, but let them wash through and out. Think of it like a neighbour or babysitter telling you they are engaged - polite smile of acknowledgement, maybe even say congrats through slightly gritted teeth, but nothing to do with you really. Let it wash past and resist their desire to make you an audience and understudy lol.

Oooh solo trip sounds exciting! Tell us more. Where are you intending to go? And do?

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Over the last few months, I have continued to get calls from OW whenever they fight.  It seems like they are constantly on the verge of breaking up except that they told me tonight that they are engaged and wanted to tell me before the kids so I wasn’t blindsided.

Personally, people in a bind tend to do something huge that then blows up in their faces. Like, "our marriage is failing so lets fix it by having a baby".

All of this is their drama and having you as part of the drama makes it even more exciting. OW talking to her friends (If she has any)

"I was talking to his ex last night."
"You talk to his ex?"
"Oh, yes, we are good friends. She totally understands and empathizes with the mana project I took off her hands. Of course it broke up the family and blindsided her, but she's recovered and we are all like family."

While I never mind being part of or supporting another person's dream, I have concerns when someone wants me to be part of their fantasy.

Treasur really wrote a great response in regards to your response to him and ow. Don't let her feel as if you are an ally or a shoulder for support. Remember, you didn't buy tickets to their circus.

I just want to finish with you are now on your own two feet and keep your focus on you and your kids. Nothing else matters. That will allow you to detach even more from him and his choices.

Have an awesome day,

(((Ready)))

[Reinventing]

While I never mind being part of or supporting another person's dream, I have concerns when someone wants me to be part of their fantasy.

That is a great sentence.

[MomOfSteel]

You all make excellent points.  Really, them expecting me to hold any emotional space for them is just one more head scratcher.  My standard response has become, that must be really hard, what are you going to do about it?  I’m not about to give solutions.  I think you might be right that it’s the last (well, maybe not last) desperate attempt to hold onto things.  I have no desire to be part of their fantasy.  I’m sure in their narrative we all get along and there are no hard feelings.  I mean, they’ve always denied wrong doing and their version is so very different than mine. 

On a more fun note I arrived in Helsinki today and other than being exhausted am excited to have a minute for myself.