[Raphael]

 Hello,
* I think I first posted this to the wrong thread- technology and I do not always get along
I am new to the forum, but have been reading and learning about MLC for several years. I have read many, many posts and have learned so much. I have been hesitant to post, because I feel like I can never get the right words out and that my thinking is utterly disjointed.
Here is my story and not unlike so many of yours!
EX had a difficult childhood. His brother died in a fire at age 5 (EX was 7). His parents divorced a few years later - his mom
had nothing to do with him for about 8 years. No contact at all. Dad was an abusive alcoholic.
I am very lucky and has a wonderful childhood.
Married 11/97
2/98 my sister died as a result of childbirth to my nephew
10/98 my brother in law committed suicide and my husband and I were guardians of both my niece and nephew. Eventually we adopt both and have a family.
Raised both as our own. We tried to get pregnant ourselves, but were not successful. Decided not to do fertility treatments because we loved the two children we had and felt if it happened it would be a blessing, but if not, we had two wonderful kids.
Raised our family- had ups and downs, he tended to struggles with his anger and frustration and I was the peace keeper.
2016- we were in London, England visiting our son who was studying abroad. While we were there he told me he wanted a separation. I was devastated.
We separated for three months, went to counseling, but always felt I was at fault. He went on a dating site and had a date with someone . D28 saw the message pop up on his phone. His story was his friends thought he should try dating while we were separated. Said D28, broke into my phone and saw the message “ a total lie.
He moved back in said “I have made my decision and I am
coming home.” I was still in shock and disbelief and just let him
move back in, I shut down and pretty much just tried to survive.
2018- EX gets obsessed with working out.
2019- get the ILYBNILWY speech.
Find out he is spending time with a girl 17 years younger from the gym and “it’s not what you think.”
Nov 2019 moved out- weekend after Thanksgiving take two trash bags out the door and is gone. Starts divorce process.
Rest of 2019/ early 2020 extreme clinging boomerang
July 2020 divorce final
Buys the house in our town that I always loved. Assumed OW (friend from gym) moved in with him - I don’t ask. D28 refuses to meet her S 25 has met her a few times , but it’s never at his house.
Have spent the last three years trying to detach. He will text me Happy Birthday, Merry Christmas etc. Kids see him a few times a year. He has told them that he deserves to see them more and that they owe him
after everything he has done for them- monster much?
June 2023 announced to our two kids that they are going to be a big brother and sister. He also told them they had no idea how difficult it was for “me and your mother” to have you come live with us when they first came to us. D28 had the wind knocked out of her and was visibly upset with tears in her eyes. His response was, “Really, that is how you are going to react.” She left the restaurant and told him she never wanted to see him again. S25 stayed and talked to him for a few more minutes. Both are devastated and we all are. By the way, OW was not at dinner when he told them about the baby.
I’m not sure what exactly I am asking for. I have been standing up to this point, but the hurt and pain he has caused all of us is crushing. I guess I want to know I am not alone and that there are people who understand how horrific this whole situation is. I appreciate you taking the time to read my story.

[WHY]

This is a very difficult situation and I recommend reaching out to RCR so she can do a video on this.  These are the complicated stories she’s good at figuring out a survival plan for. 

I’m so sorry. 

https://m.youtube.com/@theherosspouse4798/streams

[Treasur]

I am so very sorry for all of your losses. We get loss here and quite a few of us have suffered losses as well as MLC losses and aftershocks, so you are not alone.

As to why you posted? Maybe you just wanted to feel heard. And to hear the key message, which we all need reminding of from time to time, that none of this was your fault or failing. Sadly that also means that, much as you might wish you could, you can’t protect your much loved adult kids from your xh’s words or behaviour either. But you can be the sane loving solid parent in a storm that it sounds like you have always been.

As many of us here know, the cruelty and entitled self-centredness of an MLC ex/spouse is hard to explain unless you’ve experienced it, isn’t it? It’s pretty common but still awful to experience even second-hand or from far away.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

First of all, welcome to the party that no one really wants to attend. However, there are some great people and will listen and give great advice. The second part, is wow, what a story. I really admire that you raised your niece and nephew as your own and created a loving home for them to thrive.

Now as far as your ex goes, I am very disappointed.

He has told them that he deserves to see them more and that they owe him
after everything he has done for them- monster much?

Funny thing is that I say the same thing to our dog who prefers and loves my wife more. It has no impact on her either. Your kids don't owe your ex anything.  They didn't sign any agreements to such facts when they moved in with you. They had lost both parents and needed someone to step up and thankfully, you did.

Raised our family- had ups and downs, he tended to struggles with his anger and frustration and I was the peace keeper.

What frustrations and anger over what? From my cheap seats, it seems he has always had an issue with dissatisfaction with his life. He has dealt with abandonment and his own loss. If anything, you would think he would have empathy towards the niece and nephew. I don't know and the crisis of his identity has a lot to do with his own unresolved conflict from youth.

June 2023 announced to our two kids that they are going to be a big brother and sister. He also told them they had no idea how difficult it was for “me and your mother” to have you come live with us when they first came to us.

Obviously he was not read "How to make friends and influence others." Besides doing a great job of destroying any relationship he has with his kids, is he mentally prepared for an infant in the house? My brother in law and his wife just had a baby. I absolutely love when the baby comes to visit....yes, visit. A baby is a lot of work and the first months are exhausting. I wonder what he will tell his child in the future. "You know when you were born, we weren't sure if we were going to let you stay. Neither one of us really liked you."

I have been standing up to this point, but the hurt and pain he has caused all of us is crushing.

I can't really give any advice except for one caveat; live, live as if he is never coming back. You are the adult and parent to two wonderful people and that should be your focus and direction. This is your journey without him. Standing is great, but moving forward is optimum.

You have done a great job so far and just continue to do what you feel is best for you and your children.

((((Ready))))

[Raphael]

I hope I am replying the correct way, all three at once.
Why, 
thank you for the idea to send it to RCR. I will try to get my story in a more succinct format.
Treasur,
Thank you for hearing me. I also think I just need to process the feeling that I am being replaced on so many levels (and the kids as well) Obviously, I was the reason we could not get pregnant since he was able to get someone else pregnant.  I appreciate your thoughts.
readytofixmyselffirst,
You have asked some great questions.
I have tried to explain to my kids that they do not owe XH a darn thing! So thank you for reassuring me that I am on the right track.
I think you are correct that he has had dissatisfaction with his life all along. He always wanted to be the best at what he did- graduated high school fourth in his class, built a very successful finance  business. I think he was always trying to please his dad even though he didn’t have respect for him. He and his dad have a better relationship now, but they are still not close and he still resents his mom for what she did to him. I on the other hand have amazing parents and  expended family. He never said it out loud, but I think he resented them for some reason.  When this all first happened, I was in utter shock and went looking for what in the world happened. When I read about MLC, he ticked so many of the boxes. Now that I have had time to process it all, I wonder if he had these traits all along and I just didn’t see it. I read a book on passive aggressive covert narcissism and seemed to see some similarities while reading that book- not as many as MLC, but many.
You made me laugh out loud when you referenced the book, How to Make Friends and Influence Others. At this point I think it will take a very long time and a lot of healing for them to want him back in their lives other than an obligatory Happy “whatever” text.
He sold his successful business (after the divorce) so I am sure he can hire as many nannies as he needs to get enough rest- he is 52 you know 
I am trying my darndest to keep moving forward. I grieve the life I thought I would have and do focus on my two kids- who are super awesome by the way.
I cannot thank you all enough. Not too many people understand what living through this is really like.

[xyzcf]

 

Not too many people understand what living through this is really like.

Welcome to Hero's Spouse.

Here is a safe place and a place where people will understand. It as a true gift.

It is hard to understand how some MLCer's totally leave their children behind. If this were a 'marriage" problem, then what do our kids have to do with them leaving?

No matter what age, our children are impacted by the blowing up of their lives and the rejection from a parent. And they know that we are there for them and they recognized that the MLC parent has left the show...this rejection is hard for all of us and even other family members.

[forthetrees]

I think you may find the book The Body Keeps the Score useful in processing the traumas that have befallen you. You´ve been dealt multiple blows one of which would likely flatten most people and yet... here you are plugging along. It speaks to some inner strength that has not been demolished- an inner pillar that has cracked and maybe crumbled a bit but with support can stand tall and mighty once again. I hope you find support here and cleanse the cracks of your core of any blame, doubt or shame that you brought this upon yourself. Your ex has a long road back to establishing trust with your kids if he chooses to own up to the hurt he unleashed though that is out of your control. Life is precious and I hope that you and the kids can find some sparkle of joy every day from the mundane to the milestones. 

[Raphael]

Thank you all so much. It’s comforting to know there are people who understand.
It’s interesting that you mentioned the book, The Body Keeps the Score. It is sitting on my nightstand. I have started it several times, but my fuzzy thinking makes it hard to concentrate. I have a wonderful therapist- she said I have compound trauma. I will try again to
read it. Since all of this I have been diagnosed with vestibular migraines and syncope so I have horrible balance issues. I am sure the stress I was/am under made my health much worse.
Right at the time of BD, my uncle who was like a father to me died suddenly. I had to go to the funeral out of state. EX was on a “business trip” and couldn’t make it. I knew then things were over and he was not going to be there to support me. A year later, to the day, his daughter , my closest cousin overdosed and passed away.
During the divorce OW lived about four blocks from me. The first time I saw them in the car together I literally felt like I had been stabbed. OW was married to an older brother of boys my kids went to school with. Her ex FIL was my son’s little league coach for years. Oh and her ex was my ex’s physical therapist when he had knee surgery the summer before BD- they all worked out at the gym together so my ex asked him to be his PT.
Every time I got in my car to go anywhere I almost had a panic attack because I was afraid I would see her/them. Once when she drove past me while was walking my dog she laughed at me. The next time she drove past me I waved to her with just one special finger flipped up on both hands.
EX bought a house on her street (the same house I had admired all the years we lived in our small town). So now OW is living in the house I always loved and is going to raise a child there with my Ex.
I don’t live in that town any more- my Ex and I were in the process of building a house closer to my parents, still in the same metro area, just a different town. He walked away from everything and left me to pack up our old house and  finish building the new house on my own.
I’m so sorry to go on and on- I guess I just needed to vent.
Again, thank you all so much for being so supportive.

[MadLuv]

i’m so sorry you find yourself here. You both have suffered huge losses in life and I can relate. Also, your XH seems to be a seeker of fulfillment as was mine. Issues never dealt with tend to do that. They are seeking the next high to get them through. You are almost 3 years in from BD and so you have a good grasp now on what has happened and the reality of the situation, but it makes it hard when their selfishness hurts kids they have loved for decades. Also, to buy your dream house is crushing. Thats what they do. My ex gives and does things for his new wife that he new I loved. It’s hard to understand it.

Do your best to turn a blond eye to him if you can. Enjoy your kids and life the best you can. Fake it till you make it has never been truer. The more you force yourself out there to live the more new memories you will have to help clear your head. I found that the hardest. I had noting to say to anyone as he was my world. So, I had to make a new world. Keep moving forward. My XH moved his wife into out second home. That was hard, but no baby. I can’t imagine. I’m so sorry for the loss of your sister and BIL. Their kids are so lucky to have you. You have been through a lot in life. I can relate. That will help you through!!

[Treasur]

I was so glad, Raphael, when I read at the end of your post that you are no longer living in the same town.

I was also diagnosed with PTSD about three years post BD. I couldn’t read much for a couple of years and couldn’t listen to music for about five. I had lived quite a big life before but with PTSD even small things could freeze me in my tracks. And yes, my health also suffered. I know that there are others here who were also diagnosed with PTSD….tbh I think there are quite a few LBS here who had PTSD symptoms even if they were not diagnosed with it. Sometimes I can see PTSD type words posted here bc when you have experienced it, you recognise it I think.

PTSD is awful….but you CAN get better from it, better than you think now you can get. Fwiw, recovering from PTSD is your absolute priority now……let the rest go….bc it is hard to live life properly carrying a PTSD backpack. Don’t worry about  not being able to read the book yet….if you Google you will find some podcast interviews with Bessel van der Kolk if that’s easier or some simple summaries on different websites of how PTSD ‘works’ and how you can begin to recover from it.

What do I mean by let the rest go? Imho, it’s about a kind of acceptance…..not agreement or even comprehension but Acceptance…..that these terrible things have actually happened and that bc they have, the landscape of your life is now different. That these things happened to you and around you, but not because of you, but they have still changed your landscape to one that you didn’t choose but need to find a way to live with. Your xh has chosen his path….that may or may not work out well for him, it may or may not change….but where you are is where you are regardless of what happens with his future life. So, let it go; it doesn’t belong to you.

It is easy to see why it might feel like it is about you, or a rejection of you…or as if things have been stolen from you…..but that is not accurate. What we seem to see often here is that these kind of folks try to fix themselves by doing a ‘do over’ that excludes the key bits (and people) of decades of their old life…..they reject themselves really, we are just objects in the old life….anecdotally that rarely turns out to be the magic fix they hope bc of course they carry that big internal fracture with them. But that is their challenge to work out, not yours. Or your kids. So, let it go…..grieve the h and life you loved as you need to, but let it go….you have more important things to focus on for your own life that you CAN control or influence or change.

The big message that I learned is that PTSD is not about character or willpower lol. It is almost mechanical…..x happens so y happens then z happens….recovery means getting acquainted with how that little bit of your reptilian brain functions and how to soothe her out of being the driver of your car and back into the back seat. I called mine Lucy the Lizard! Your Lucy is doing her job, bless her, of trying to help you survive in what feels to her like a world of tigers….recovery is about learning to manage your Lucy when your cognitive brain knows it’s not a tiger, it’s a stripy curtain! Bessel van der Kolk’s main point is that trauma is a physical and biochemical experience….not a thinking one….and that for most of us, the way through and out is mostly physical too.

Trial and error is part of the process imho.

What kinds of things make you feel safer and calmer right now, as if you can breathe properly? What makes you feel Safe as opposed to safe? Or triggers Fear as opposed to fear? Sometimes these things are obvious….but sometimes they can be quite small or surprising. And it is a deeply personal thing. The sound of a mobile phone ring used to make me feel like vomiting for instance even if it wasn’t my phone…..there were solid logical reasons for this in events that had happened, but as you can imagine it made some bits of modern life quite tricky lol. Some triggers were predictable and I could see them coming and prepare for them…certain dates or places or activities…but the ones that knocked me on my a$$ and caused me great self-doubt were often the small ones I did not see coming….a smell, a voice that sounded like my father’s, car alarms. Learning how to calm my Lucy down when these things happened was an important part of my path forwards as well as giving myself permission to stay away from things (or people) that caused more damage when I was momentarily more vulnerable. And tbh reaching a point when I could be a little more matter of fact about how my PTSD came out to play with close friends who cared about me but did not understand what I needed was a big step for me too. I was frequently amazed by people’s kindness and desire to respect my limitations at a given time. Like you, and perhaps in my case why PTSD came calling lol, I had a great and secure childhood and life pre-bd (my xh like yours not so much) so it was a strange and humbling experience to find myself so far out in the long grass of a world that felt so alien to me.

For me, walking and gardening helped, getting outside. Learning to breathe properly helped when I got overwhelmed. Yoga helped a bit but later down the path. In addition to that, having done some talking therapy (which took the edge of but did not really change the PTSD for me), I was lucky enough to find an EMDR therapist who specialised in trauma recovery and that, for me, was the real beginning of my own recovery. Does your current therapist specialise in trauma? If not, I would encourage you to find one that does bc it is a specialist field.

When I was at my worst, I did not believe that I would ever find a way out or that I would feel anything like my non-PTSD self again. I was wrong. Which means I am here to tell you that there IS a way out and that it does not need to feel forever like it feels now. But the first step imho is to take the PTSD seriously….as seriously as you would take a life-limiting physical illness….and to start the shift from coping (which i did too for a few years) to aiming for recovery. I am not a fan of pretending so, much as I wish I could, it would not be true to say that I am the same as I was before or that I do not have the odd PTSD blip….there is some residue from a set of huge awful life-altering experiences so perhaps there is a Me, a PTSD Me and a post-PTSD Me?….but I am a million times better now than a couple of years ago. Tbh the process has felt to me a bit like a kind of slow flowering….I continue to unfold and see my own progress long after my formal PTSD treatment ended. I am more Me now than six months ago even. And I am amazed and grateful for that still, and grateful too that it means I can show up here to talk to you about Lucy the Lizard now.

[xyzcf]

Therapists often treat what is going on with us as a marriage problem and a grief response. My first therapist was a "talk therapist" and although it was good to talk and cry in her office, I didn't seem any better after several sessions.

After 8 years, I was functioning but I could not feel joy. I knew what joy was and I did all the GALing stuff, had friends, had a routine for my life..but I did not feel who I was anymore.

I found a therapist that does mind/body work and yes, the idea that I had PTSD started to be uncovered. I didn't quite understand, my father had PTSD but he had been a POW in WWII, I work with domestic violence victims and children who have been sexually abused and they had PTSD.....but I started to realize that my whole world had been blown apart, rejection, abandonment, betrayal in a way that was totally unexpected and shocking.

I was introduced to this chart that is being used in many treatment centers, Polyvagal theory, that helped me understand how my body was in fight/flight/freeze mode very often......and was taught many techniques to use to return myself to the green zone where my body was functioning normally.

https://theactgroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Polyvagal-Theory-Ruby-Jo-Walker-small.jpg

I was in therapy one day and told my therapist that I felt "overwhelmed". She asked me to look at this chart and see where I was at...I couldn't see it..it's there but I couldn't see it.

I had over 60 sessions and some of them were really tough as my physiology started to respond to my emotional parts...but eventually I started to feel more integrated..started to become aware of me once more, started to recognize parts of xyzcf and eventually feeling more like myself once again.

Without that therapy, I am not sure I would be as well as I am today.

However, not everyone has access to this type of therapy or the financial means to afford it.

Exercise really helped especially walking and especially outdoors.

Yoga and meditation were also very calming. I had been practicing yoga for many years so it wasn't hard to find that a good place for me. I preferred things like Yin Yoga, Yoga Nidra and restorative yoga for my mental calmness. Lots of yoga is very high powered based so it's important to find the right class.

Breathing, so very important. Massages since I never get touched anymore.

I also had a dog who stayed by my side throughout the darkest time of my life.

I never had any mental health issues before BD. I was as stable as you can get. I didn't have any childhood trauma and our marriage of 32 years was a beautiful journey......so I was shocked that I couldn't just shake this off. He was after all, only a man, and not a very good man at that.

Still, there remains "damages" that I am quite aware of. He is in my life, quite superficially but that is my decision and it is good for our family. I also feel a great deal of empathy for him, because no matter how difficult this has been for me, I would not change places with him and his "crisis".

[Raphael]

Thank you all  so much for the advice. My therapist does specialize in trauma- she has mentioned PTSD, but I will be sure to ask her about that specifically. I had the same response when she said trauma and PTDS, I wasn’t in a war, how could I have PTSD. I will take note of the chart and share it with my counselor on Friday.
I know I am much better than I was, but have more work to do. I have read your posts more than once and I will refer back to them. You are all so wise and explain things so well, and I am so thankful you took the time to write to me and help me.

[Raphael]

I’ve had a few days to process all of this information and I think I just need to vent. I know you all understand how unfair this all is.  I question if he ever loved me at all. How could someone who you were with for so many years do this to his family?  I look at people around me who are smiling and doing life with their family and wonder if I will ever be truly happy again. Is it worth all the hard work that I know I need to do to just be ok. I feel like I am jealous of my friends whose families are together and are celebrating graduations, going on vacations and just being together. I know I am in victim mode and need to grow, but right now I am just trying to get through the day. I felt like I had gotten so much better since all of this happened three years ago, but now I am back to being  glad when I can go to bed at night because I made it through another day. When I wake up, I have that same sick feeling and know I have to chug through another day. When he first left, I thought maybe someday he would regret what he did, but now that he is starting a whole new family, it seems hopeless and he will never truly be sorry. I know I need to let him go 100%, I thought I was doing a good job of detaching , but I guess not.
I appreciate all of your ideas of how to get better and I know I will need to get in a better mind set, but I just felt like I needed to get these thoughts out of my head. It is nice to be able to reach out to people who get it. Thank you!

[UrsaMajor]

The initial shock does wear off but it takes a while - longer for some than for others. One pundit says to expect 1-2 months of grief and recovery for every year of the marriage. Others say that the timeline is all rubbish and is nothing more than stage watching. The key here is to progress at a rate than works for you. Not everyone can just turn around in the phone booth 3 times and come out as Superman or Wonder Woman.

The bottom line is that there will be days where it feels like it requires superhuman strength to get one foot in front of the other and there will be other days when it feels like we are on the fast track to healing - Both of these are normal.

Take care of your health, both mental and physical and that will give you a good start on the rest

[Nas]

I think it just takes time and a concerted effort to shift your thoughts away from him and his life. I can't say when I stopped doing this, but I know it didn't "just happen." I had to work at it because I was in a bad place and if I wasn't careful, I could've gotten consumed with how "good" his life was compared to mine.  I didn't have a therapist at the time, which would have been ideal, but I started to face the thoughts when they arose and work on reframing them and continually telling myself that "his great life" was nothing more than a story I was creating in my own mind because I didn't know. And even if his life took a terrible turn, it would do absolutely nothing to change my circumstances anyway. And I couldn't ever be free to open myself up to anyone (platonic or otherwise) or anything else while I was still consumed with wanting him to acknowledge all the things he'd done to me and comparing my life to his and wondering about whether he knew or cared how awful he was. I had to very strongly force myself at first to actively reframe those thoughts, and little by little, day by day, I stopped thinking about it all the time.

Now I don't think about him on most days at all. When I'm feeling very vulnerable or particularly tired, I have moments of "I seriously can't believe that all happened." But I truly, truly don't care if he regrets anything, I don't care if he misses me, I don't care if he thinks about me.  I just don't want him to do anything else (nasty, cruel or - worse - illegal) to cause me any more hardship  - beyond that, he doesn't matter.
You'll get there.  I'm not someone who really believes time heals all. I think we have to work at it until we don't have to work at it anymore, if that makes sense.

[forthetrees]

May be worth looking at this information on complicated grief: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/complicated-grief/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20360389

[Raphael]

Thank you all once again. I appreciate all of your thoughtful responses. I’ve got work to do, but you all gave me great advice and I will take it one day (some days one hour) at a time. I hope some day I will be able to help someone else just as you all have helped me.

[Reinventing]

Raphael,

I recognized every one of your points about the doubts, pain, and enormous change in our lives.

You won't always feel this way. It will get better.

Find what helps you and do more of that. Find what hurts or doesn't help and do less of that. As you heal, this will change. Some things I did for the first year or two and some things longer.

It is a rollercoaster so even as you are on the trajectory of healing, you will have up and down days.

With time, I was able to return to my normal level of happiness.

I started evaluating everything in my life on whether it helped me heal or not. I became laser focused on that. If it didn't help me heal, I didn't do it. If it did, I did more of that.

[Treasur]

I’ve had a few days to process all of this information and I think I just need to vent. I know you all understand how unfair this all is.  I question if he ever loved me at all. How could someone who you were with for so many years do this to his family?  I look at people around me who are smiling and doing life with their family and wonder if I will ever be truly happy again. Is it worth all the hard work that I know I need to do to just be ok. I feel like I am jealous of my friends whose families are together and are celebrating graduations, going on vacations and just being together. I know I am in victim mode and need to grow, but right now I am just trying to get through the day. I felt like I had gotten so much better since all of this happened three years ago, but now I am back to being  glad when I can go to bed at night because I made it through another day. When I wake up, I have that same sick feeling and know I have to chug through another day. When he first left, I thought maybe someday he would regret what he did, but now that he is starting a whole new family, it seems hopeless and he will never truly be sorry. I know I need to let him go 100%, I thought I was doing a good job of detaching , but I guess not.
I appreciate all of your ideas of how to get better and I know I will need to get in a better mind set, but I just felt like I needed to get these thoughts out of my head. It is nice to be able to reach out to people who get it. Thank you!

Vent away. We do get it. And I hope it is some small settling reassurance that there is unlikely to be one thing you are thinking or feeling right now that others here have not thought or felt.

Fwiw, try as hard as you can to separate out the reality of being a victim of someone else’s actions vs what you call victim mode. Why? Bc the first is a reality one needs to accept and the fallout effects are real. Bc they are different things. Bc the first requires a kind of inventory and prioritisation to focus on the active work of healing…bc how can you tend, heal and repair without identifying the damage?….the second is imho a kind of helpless whirling feeling which can keep us inadvertently more connected to what/who hurt us than we might need. Bc no one needs to add to their damage by blaming themselves or having self-contempt for the perfectly normal passage of being victimised by downgrading those challenges to being in ‘victim mode’. It’s true perhaps that others, including MLCers, find the reality of someone else having been a victim rather uncomfortable and can find it easier to blame the victim in a kind of ‘it’s not what they did, it’s how you’re reacting’ as the ‘problem’ - don’t do their work for them!

Lots of us here will recognise that strange mind hiccup where we long for a sorry or some kind of sign of a kind of universal justice that makes life feel more fair or balanced or predictable. We get it, it’s normal. With time, we usually each find our own way of shuffling that into a place that makes some kind of sense to us individually. There are some here for whom that karma - or even a sorry - did turn up further down the path, that’s true. But usually long past the point when it mattered in the way we once thought it would. So fwiw, my advice is to focus on trying to heal, recover and rebuild a different life that feels good enough to you regardless, acting on the assumption that both a real sorry and/or karmic justice won’t show up. On a very practical level, even if it does, truthfully the damage that has been caused and the way in which your life has been affected won’t change much either way with a sorry, will it?

So, you do you. Build from where you find yourself. Fight the (normal) impulse to make any part of your recovery dependent on the words or actions or feelings of anyone else, let alone the kind of human who could do what your h did. Be as kind as you can be towards yourself about why you find yourself here and the hard work involved in dragging yourself towards a better version of here. And vent away when you need to!

[Reinventing]

Fight the (normal) impulse to make any part of your recovery dependent on the words or actions or feelings of anyone else

Yes! I found a very small number of folks I could rely on for support (a couple of family members, therapist, a person at work, and members of a divorce support group).

My other pro-healing actions depended on me (and for exercise, the weather).

I felt like there was two parts of me--me in pain and then me as a manager of my healing. And I was a pretty protective manager of my healing because I wanted to be happy again.

[Raphael]

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.
Treasur- I really like how you differentiated between being a victim of someone else’s actions and being in victim mode. It makes a lot of sense.
 I think what I am having the hardest time with right now is that I feel like I did all the work to try and feel better for the last three and a half years since he left and now that OW is pregnant, I have to start all over again- I know I can do it, I just feel defeated. I wasn’t able to get pregnant so I feel like it’s another loss. He said “we made a conscious decision to not have any more kids” I don’t remember it exactly the same way, but know we agreed that we wouldn’t do in vitro fertilization etc. I thought ( and thought he felt the same way) that we had two great kids and if I was able to get pregnant it would be an extra blessing. It breaks my heart that he is going through this process with someone else and not me. The kids are hurt and I just want it to all go away. It’s so hard when the person you trusted the most becomes the person who causes you the most pain. It makes it so hard to trust others and even myself.

[Treasur]

Imho one of the common markers of PTSD is losing a sense of self to the point where we find it very hard to trust ourselves. I found Brene Brown’s work on Trust tremendously helpful https://brenebrown.com/podcast/the-anatomy-of-trust/ - the basic idea is that you take the same principles that determine if we trust others and consciously turn them towards yourself. Don’t worry so much about trusting others - tbh that becomes easier when one’s back on internal solid ground - for now, focus very intentionally on learning again how to trust yourself. And yes, it is work….a whole series of every day baby steps….but I found it tremendously helpful. I hope it helps you too. I think when we are rebuilding important bits of our metaphorical scaffolding, it can be helpful, at least for a while, to have some kind of structure or guide.

You may find some bits apply more to you than others…..I did. That’s ok, just focus on what you see as most helpful.

I am sorry about the pregnancy news and I can quite see how this would feel like another loss. It’s understandable that it might take some time for you to shuffle those feelings around until you can tuck them away peacefully and, of course, understandable too that this carries the additional hurt of affecting your kids.

[Raphael]

Thank you again for your thoughtful response. I have gone back to weekly counseling, which has been helpful. I am trying take it one step at a time, and doing things to help me heal. I think I have to finally admit to myself that I need to truly move on and focus on me and my kids.  I think for the last three years, I was working on myself and moving forward, but always had a tiny bit of hope that he would get through his MLC and be open to at least discussing reconciliation. He said  so many crazy things when he left… “I need to put me first” “I like hanging out with her and if I say married to you, you won’t let me hang out with her and I’ll resent you , I  don’t want to reset you” and “I have to leave, but maybe someday we can get remarried or just live together” and like most of you he said , “it’s not what you think”. Now that she is pregnant and it was definitely a choice, I have to accept that it probably wasn’t MLC, he just didn’t love me anymore and I question if he ever really loved me.
I know I will get better and I need to stop trying to figure out why- i have been focusing too much of my energy on reading why people do this and how do you handle your ex having a baby with someone else. Do they ever regret what they did to the family? I need to be healthy and strong for my two kids. My family is now the three of us and I will take it one step at a time and accept he isn’t part of our family any more.
Again, it is so nice to be able to vent to people who understand. Thank you all.

[UrsaMajor]

Now that she is pregnant and it was definitely a choice, I have to accept that it probably wasn’t MLC, he just didn’t love me anymore and I question if he ever really loved me.

This is not a case of "He didn't love me anymore so he's having a baby with OW." This is a case of a Mid-Lifer sticking his willy where it didn't belong, because it was exciting and gave him an Endorphin rush, not taking any precautions, and now having to deal with the resulting consequences. It has NOTHING to do with him "not loving you anymore." He doesn't love ANYONE, including - actually mostly himself - at the moment.....

Yes it was his choice to go off and do  the Mattress Mambo with OW. Yes it was his choice to do so without a love glove or other appropriate protection.

But equating the that and "he didn't love me anymore" is like trying to equate chalk and cheese....

[MadLuv]

I agree with UM. The MLCer crisis is all about not loving themselves and their identify is in question. They are trying whatever to find themselves and they make horrid choices while doing it. They cant love anyone when they don't love themselves. So, back to …it’s not about you!! 

Also, you can move forward and still hope he finds his way. I still hope for my kids and gs that my MLCer finds himself, but I am no longer hoping so much that it is my focus. So, you focus on you and your kids and if he finds his way then you see where you are then. This is your life and you live it for you and your kids now.  He has to live with all his choices and their consequences.

 Let him have this “new” life he has left for. As I told my XH. How’s your life now, because you had a pretty good life and it doesn’t look to great now. Once you see the mess they created for what it is, well it makes it much easier to let them play it out while you heal and move forward to a stronger and better life.

[Treasur]

I agree with the others that you might be in danger of doing a 1+1 = 5 here. Ow’s pregnancy says nothing more really than they had unprotected sex and ow is choosing to go ahead with the pregnancy. It really doesn’t even say much about the nature of their relationship, let alone your past relationship with him.

Having said that, it is normal and part of the healing process imho to chew on what was real and what was maybe not as we thought it was after this kind of huge betrayal until we reach some sort of conclusion that feels close enough to make peace with. And that’s a very personal thing.

Years on, I’m not sure I have ever quite managed to line up my experience of my h pre BD and post BD - even knowing all I know now, it still seems pretty bizarre and I see no way I could have predicted it based on his behaviour towards me for decades. The best I have come up with is that my h did love me but not perhaps quite in the way it seemed to me and others that he did or in the way that I would love. Or not enough when his own mental s$it hit the fan - which is about his tactics in dealing with that not me or us tbh. I never could have done some of the things to him that he did to me - it just isn’t in my tool kit. I didn’t know it was in his either….until it was. And I see what happened as a rather tragic loss of something good regardless tbh of how he might see it today. If I am wrong and he was a) capable and b) willing to fake love like that day after day for twenty years then it seems to me that a) he would be a truly f’ed up human and b) he unwisely wasted twenty years of his own life in a charade for unknown reasons which makes him a fool. Sounds pretty unlikely to me though….either way, it’s his loss as well as mine.

[MadLuv]

I also have come to the conclusion that if they have FOO issues or have always had an avoidant personality, then they just don’t attach as deeply as we do. I honestly think my XH loved me more than he has anyone and also his kids, yet he is now remarried and living and supporting some other mans adult kids and has abandoned his own. I think it’s easier for them to keep the mask on with those that don’t truly know them.

What I can say 2 years and 8 mths  is that my XH is just existing. There is no love in the new relationship. I think he like his wife, but there is no deep connection or love. He will talk to me any chance he gets and he never defends her, ever.  I believe  the limerence is gone , but he can just show up and her and her kids are all about them and so he can just disappear in the background. That’s no life. So, don’t discount your value in your relationship. It is truly all about his internal struggles.  That has been my experience .

It has been so helpful for my own trauma to not be so damaging to me. As Treasur has said and I agree. There is NO way I could do anything to my XH even close to what he did to me or anyone for that matter. I think that is why it is so hard for us to accept that anyone could. Specially someone we loved so much.

[Raphael]

Now that she is pregnant and it was definitely a choice, I have to accept that it probably wasn’t MLC, he just didn’t love me anymore and I question if he ever really loved me.
I guess what I was trying to say here is that they were trying to have a baby. She had two miscarriages (why he told me that I have no idea - other than to torture me more) he had ED for several years before he left, but after he met her (while we were still married ) he started to seek more treatment for his ED not to be with me but to be with her. I did call him after he told the kids about their new brother and told him how upset the kids were. He told me all the same things , we never got along, we had bad luck, you never trusted me. But this time he added “we decided a long time ago to not have more kids” and “ you know how much I wanted a baby of my own” I know it’s not about me (at least I tell myself that - not sure I believe it yet) but he left me for someone who could give him what he obviously could not get from me. If he is escaping from the responsibilities of our family, why would he start a brand new one with someone else. I guess that is why I question if it is MLC or he just wanted out. And I don’t understand how this OW (I call her Trixie) would think at 34 years old that having a baby with a 52 year old man that she is not married to and has never met his daughter (28) and has only seen his son (25) a few times a year that it is a good idea. She wasn’t there when he told the kids - what did he say to her, “hey, I gotta  go tell my adult children you are having my baby, but you are not invited” it’s so bizarre.
I know I am stuck right now and I’m in a not so great place, but you all have given me such wonderful advice and counsel.  I so appreciate it.

[MadLuv]

My XH had ED issues for 7 years before leaving and ended up it was bad enough for surgery, yet he found someone to marry him. Some people just want to be taken care of and they know also how to build a man up to get him, but that mask also fades. My XH married immediately. They think these other people are the answer. What you do know MLC or not is that how they behave and how they move on so quickly is NOT normal. Who they are now is not worthy of you. The age difference on your H and his new partner is going to be an issue. It will. They dont think far enough ahead. They look at instant gratification.

[UrsaMajor]

Now that she is pregnant and it was definitely a choice,

Yes. He made a choice to have unprotected sex with a woman who was not his wife.

I have to accept that it probably wasn’t MLC, he just didn’t love me anymore and I question if he ever really loved me.

If you really didn't love eating liver and onions, would you continue to eat liver and onions EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE for <how ever many years you were married before he went bat-snot crazy> years? Probably not.....

I guess what I was trying to say here is that they were trying to have a baby.

Trying to decipher what intentions the Mid-Lifer and the Affair Down (AD) had is like trying to taste green..... with your elbow.  But I disagree.... SHE may have been trying to have a baby. HE was trying to get his rocks off and the new-found rush of sticking his willy where it didn't belong heightened the excitement (which may have very well been helpful in alleviating part of the ED issues).

She had two miscarriages (why he told me that I have no idea - other than to torture me more)

Because he is a Mid-Lifer in the throes of Replay and a twatwaffle.... Nothing more than that. Most Mid-Lifers don't have enough emotionally functional brain cells to sit and come up with sadistic plans on how to torture their LBS's and the filter between brain and mouth is practically non-existent. Yeah, they talk a lot of smack and can get really cruel on a moments notice but it isn't often where there is malice aforethought. Rather they want to lash out at the time against something or someone that they see as the root of all their issues.

he had ED for several years before he left, but after he met her (while we were still married ) he started to seek more treatment for his ED not to be with me but to be with her.

So, he was already seeking treatment with you? and then went at it whole hog when the MLC took over his swiss cheese brain

I did call him after he told the kids about their new brother and told him how upset the kids were. He told me all the same things , we never got along, we had bad luck, you never trusted me. But this time he added “we decided a long time ago to not have more kids” and “ you know how much I wanted a baby of my own”

So, you not only got the full load of

you got the historical revisionism to boot..... Lucky you 

I know it’s not about me (at least I tell myself that - not sure I believe it yet) but he left me for someone who could give him what he obviously could not get from me.

.....
Yes and if it wasn't THIS particular OW, it would have been a different one because she is just a symptom of his dis-ease, NOT the cause. What she/it can give him is that happy rush of endorphins.... Too bad they wear off so quickly..... so he'll need another shot soon....

If he is escaping from the responsibilities of our family, why would he start a brand new one with someone else.

 
Because he didn't think any farther than his willy..... The little head took over all thought processes and he is now a hormonally driven Bug in an Edgar suit

I guess that is why I question if it is MLC or he just wanted out.

Yum Yum Yum... GREEN!

And I don’t understand how this OW (I call her Trixie) would think at 34 years old that having a baby with a 52 year old man that she is not married to and has never met his daughter (28) and has only seen his son (25) a few times a year that it is a good idea.

Because she is JUST as broken as he is.... After all, the Affair Down is NOT someone "better" than the LBS... The AD is someone WORSE than the MLC'er themselves because then the Mid-Lifer gets that extra endorphin rush from being "superior" to the AD.....

She wasn’t there when he told the kids - what did he say to her, “hey, I gotta  go tell my adult children you are having my baby, but you are not invited”

Who cares what he told her. She deserves as much space in your head as she is paying rent for..... ZERO! 

it’s so bizarre.

EVERYTHING about MLC is bizarre..... That is why the LBS is taken for a loop... We (who are still reasonably sane in comparison) have NO frame of reference by which to categorize or order the actions of the Mid-Lifer.... It is so far form what we knew before the body snatcher showed up or how our lives together were that it takes a LONG time to wrap our heads around, especially when the Mid-Lifer undergoes such a rapid and complete personality change...

I know I am stuck right now and I’m in a not so great place, but you all have given me such wonderful advice and counsel.  I so appreciate it.

If you were out gallivanting around and not somewhat disturbed, I'd be wondering WHO the MLC'er actually was....  This is a long hard slog in the mud, not a sprint to the finish.... Just hang in there... Put one foot in front of the other, survive until the next minute, the next hour, the next week, the next month, the next year and see what you can do.....

[Raphael]

Oh my goodness UrsaMajor you made me laugh- like really laugh for the first time in a long time. Your comments were amazing. The both made me laugh and reassured me that I am not going absolutely crazy. I cannot thank you enough- truly!
He wasn’t actively seeking treatment for his ED until after he met the OW- I found information from a doctor’s visit as well as some online treatments he was trying. When I told him that I knew he had been to the doctor etc.. and felt even more betrayed because he was trying to get treatment to be with  her  and not me, he said, “I’m doing this treatment for us” funny thing is he never mentioned it to me.  Weird, huh!
It’s so hard not to feel like the OW is better….. and I know I need to stop comparing myself to her. I guess I figure she must be the “ bees knees”if he blew up his whole family for her. 
I do not do any pain shopping- I even tell people if you see them
out I don’t want to know- needless to say as soon as I say that someone always says - well I saw them here or there. One strange thing is that he never introduces her to anyone from his old life. He does still have a few friends from when we were married and strangely enough they are MY friends from high school ( or they were my friends) again (giving her head space) I’m thinking why would she be ok with not being introduced to people…. Deep breath … let it go!!!!
My counselor, who also calls the OW Trixie said one time, “I don’t think things are going to turn out so well for Miss Trixie, but you need to stop letting her take up any of your head space.” I will definitely have to work on this!!
Thank you Madluv for responding as well. You are right, who he is now is not worthy of me (or my kids, really )I read and reread all of your responses.
I hope some day to be as helpful to someone else as you all
Have been to me.

[OffRoad]

One of my favorite quotes was from the son of a poster here (nah):
He wasn't looking for someone better than you, he was looking for someone worse than himself.

One you can truly see that, it gets easier, imo. I mean really, what is the current moral badness level of your MLCer? Is it closer to you or closer to OW? Is what he is right now something you would have looked at twice way back when? Mine isn't. That doesn't mean he can't get back there again, but for right now, did she get any prize?

Normal people who have morals and compassion and find that their marriage isn't working out don't do the things a standard MLCer does. They don't cheat, they leave first; they don't say hurtful things, they graciously take on the blame to themselves and find a fair way to deal with the breakup; they don't steal things or leave everything, but seek a proper split of assets; and they don't use kids as pawns. If you were lied to, lied about, gaslighted, cheated on, stolen from, verbally abused and/or abandoned, MLC or not the person that did that to you has no honor, integrity, or decent moral compass. Unless you believe your H was always such a screwed up individual, something that was  not you happened.

It was not you. It wasn't anything you did or did not do. Only broken people behave in the manner you have seen from him. If someone hadn't mentioned, it's time to put on your own oxygen mask and work on your life as it is now. If he comes back fine, if he doesn't also fine. You can do this. We here are all living proof. 

[Treasur]

Unless you believe your H was always such a screwed up individual, something that was  not you happened.

^^^^this 
What I suspect your brain will respond with is something like well, if it was not me (being a lousy wife/mother/human etc etc), then it was about Trixie (being so irresistibly pretty/younger/better)…….hence all the what if focus on his relationship with her.
The reality we are encouraging you to embrace is that it was neither about you or about Trixie. It’s about him and his tactics for dealing with how he felt about himself and his own life. At worst, you represented obligations as a partner and parent he was failing to meet and Trixie represented an opportunity to run away and distract himself. You were a scratch to him and she was an itch….it says nothing at all about either of you as people, just representative objects. Although choosing to have an affair with a much older married man and to get pregnant probably does say something about her character….you have to be some blend of a special kind of delusional and self-centred stupid to do that imho. Very standard ow type.  And I suspect your therapist will turn out to be quite right about how well that’s going to work out for Trixie….but hey ho, not your circus.

(On a side note, I think you are still legally married? If so, you might want to take some legal advice. It would be pretty standard if pregnant Trixie the Trollop were to turn up the pressure on her pick me dance and forewarned is forearmed.)

The issue of truth-telling to kids is a real one for many parents here. Age appropriate, of course, but the underlying principles of inadvertently gaslighting them vs inserting your pov into the mix of their relationship with the other parent are probably just as valid. Everything from trying the ‘of course your dad loves you even though he hasn’t contacted you for weeks’ to the gritted teeth ‘glad you had a nice time this weekend making cookies with ow’ grrr and the ‘that sounds as if you found dinner with your dad a bit upsetting when he got drunk and told you what a terrible son/daughter you are’.

Not a parent, so my pov comes with a million caveats 
Seems to me the common thing is to separate his behaviour towards you from his behaviour towards them and to show you can separate it in any conversations you have. Which sounds easy to do but of course is actually quite hard. How do you think you are doing on that score so far, my friend? And to what extent can they do that too bc I’m not sure that’s any easier either?

The second thing….and I have a funny feeling that although it might look different with small kids and adult kids, it might be a bit the same….I was trying to imagine how I would have felt in my 20s if this had happened to me….I think there might be an operating principle of being guided by the questions they float. You know, a bit like how you know when a little kid starts to suspect that Santa might not be real (sorry if that’s a plot spoiler for any LBS here lol) or when they start to ask questions about where babies come from or why boy bits look different from girl bits  Humans tend to ask questions when we feel ready to perhaps deal with the answers. What kind of questions are you young adult kids floating with you? Or what kind of things are they venting about to you?

Depending on that - and I’m sure it varies between kids and evolves with time and events - I wonder if it works the same way as a Santa or sex conversation? If you stick to the facts without embroidery eg ‘yes, your Dad had an affair with Susie Slop and left to go and live with her’. Followed by an open question or two eg ‘how do you feel now you know that Santa doesn’t really show up with gifts and reindeer?’ becomes a ‘how do you feel about your dad living in Alaska now?’ Or ‘are there any particular things you would like to ask me about the differences between boys and girls bodies? becomes a ‘are there any particular questions you’d like to ask me about how things are right now?’ Closing with a ‘well, I’m always here if there are things you want to talk about in future’ of some sort.

Imho when there has been betrayal, rejection and chaos for a family, the truth matters. Maybe not all of the facts, but enough to know that you are not being manipulated, triangulated or deceived. That you can trust at least one parent to treat you with respect and tell you the truth in so far as they are able, and listen to you, even if you don’t like it or think they should be responding to it differently probably becomes even more important if you have an MLC type parent who isn’t doing that.

Gaslighting is a very unsettling thing, as most of us know, bc it takes away your agency….it can be a bit crazy making bc your own instincts (or eyes lol) are telling you one thing and someone you are supposed to be able to trust is telling you the opposite. Gaslighting is not protective imho. At the same time, and often in life, people don’t necessarily need our opinions….they need reliable consistent facts so they can form their own opinions and that it is safe for them to have opinions of their own even if others disagree with them.

Just my take fwiw.

Does that make sense? Or am I singing from a silly non-parent hymn sheet here? 

[Biscuit]

Treasur,

Bang on the money, parent or not.

[Raphael]

Treasur- thank you again for taking the time to respond. We are divorced. He left at the very end of Nov 2019 and we were divorced by the beginning of July 2020. He couldn’t divorce me fast enough (he accused me of dragging my feet !
At the beginning I didn’t say much to my kids who are adults. My daughter figured out the OW before I did (I suspected something) but she had proof. He still denies a lot of what happened - he would take the OW to bars in town and my daughter’s friends would see them out together. But it’s “not what you think, blah blah blah”.
Over the years the kids and I have talked more about it- my kids think he is mentally ill. And now that there is a baby involved they have both pretty much distanced themselves from him. He doesn’t understand why they are not happy for him and he gets mad at them for not being so. My daughter has never met OW and my son sees her a few times a year. I’m not sure if I am doing the right thing for my kids, but we have been much more open about talking about the hurt he has caused all of us. My kids need to process that their birth parents died and now the dad who raises them has left. It’s not fair to them and I hate it for them.

[Raphael]

Hello again everyone. I appreciate all of  your past advice.
I have not posted in a long time, I've been doing the work and trying to get better.
Not sure if I need to recap
BD 2019
Divorced July 2020
OW 17 years younger.
D (28) and S (25) are adopted because my sister and brother in law passed away.
At first clinging boomeranged
Now pretty much a vanisher
June 2023 tells the kids he is having  baby with the OW-kids were not happy and he was upset with them because they were not thrilled with the news-D (28) pretty much cut off contact then.Told me he had no plans to marry OW.
Oct 2023 a very good friend of his (and ours) passed away at an early age. He called me crying wanting to tell me about the situation.During the conversation he just happened to mention that OW had the baby a few days before-" I don't want to upset you but...." I did not react.
Feb 2024 My dad called me because there was a full page article in the the city paper about OW and how wonderful she is at restoring old houses and blah blah blah. At the end of the article it said "OW lives in blank with her three month old and her fiancee, my ex's name." So that is how my kids found out their dad was getting remarried and everyone else in town.
I did text exh and tell him how hurt the kids were and how awful it was for them to find out that way-his response "I was in New Orleans and I was gone all week, I had nothing to do with that article" Then he sent me a screen shot of his itinerary  proving his was in New Orleans all week-what the what? No, I'm sorry the kids are hurt or this isn't they way I wanted them to find out-mind blowing!

I guess I just needed to vent because I want to throttle him. I don't want to have a pity party, but I am so tired of everything. I try to be  a good person and do good things, but what is the point? Maybe I was a bad wife, maybe he didn't love me. OW must make him so much happier that he has no relationship with his kids. He has replaced us all.  I know you all understand and it's nice to be heard by people who get it.
Thanks for reading.

[UrsaMajor]

<...snip...>
My dad called me because there was a full page article in the the city paper about OW and how wonderful she is at restoring old houses and blah blah blah. At the end of the article it said "OW lives in blank with her three month old and her fiancee, my ex's name." So that is how my kids found out their dad was getting remarried and everyone else in town.
I did text exh and tell him how hurt the kids were and how awful it was for them to find out that way-his response "I was in New Orleans and I was gone all week, I had nothing to do with that article" Then he sent me a screen shot of his itinerary  proving his was in New Orleans all week-what the what? No, I'm sorry the kids are hurt or this isn't they way I wanted them to find out-mind blowing!

My answer to his screenshot is "Yeah, and? You got engaged so you DID have something to do with that article one way or another. Besides, this isn't about you, it is about YOUR KIDS and how they are feeling."

What a wanker.....

[Raphael]

Yes, you are right. I do need to focus on my kids and their hurt. I do have to work on not feeling sorry for myself. I have been working on getting better, but I still have work to do. I get stuck in the why does he do this and continue to hurt the kids and me. I need to accept I may never know why.

[Treasur]

Next time…and with these MLC chaos monkeys, there is almost always a next time….i’d suggest you don’t text him. Why? Bc if he valued what you valued, he wouldn’t have done what he’s done. And bc it’s a waste of your good life and energy to throw sensible pearls at swine  his response is, of course, 3rd party word salad BS….he may not have been directly involved in the article (how very ow textbook is that though  ) but the core issue behind it is his to own. Both that he got engaged and that he did not choose to tell his children right off the bat.

But he doesn’t care enough about what you or his kids or probably other folks think to act differently….imho telling him what you think is like spitting into the wind, much better to just be a calm listening ear to your kids while they figure out their response to it. (and perhaps secretly punch a pillow imagining his face lol)

It does take quite a while imho to replace both one’s questions and how you feel with some version of ‘I don’t know’ or ‘not my circus’. But the one thing you can be sure about is that it is nothing to do with you or your kids; it’s about him or about ow. It’s just a bit shocking to deal with an adult (technically) who shows so little concern about the effect of their behaviour on others.

[Raphael]

Thank you. I know I texted him in anger- I couldn’t believe what happened.
I did find it odd that in an article about how ow liked to be involved in old homes (btw something I have also loved to do and she is  living in the old home I always wanted to live in) that she would have the need to mention that she was engaged and name my ex specifically. She obviously doesn’t think she has done anything wrong by having an affair with a married man and not caring that she had never met his daughter after four years and sees his son a few times a year🤷‍♀️ she announced it to the whole city.
Thank you for reminding me that I need to focus on my kids . They are great kids who do not deserve this. Their birth parents died and now have to deal with the dad who raised doing this to them.  My son is in grad school and has an amazing, supportive girlfriend who I adore and my daughter loves her job and had many wonderful friends and both of their lives are full.
I have said it before, I hope one day I  am as wise as you all and can help someone else who is struggling in this horrible situation.

[KayDee]

I did find it odd that in an article about how ow liked to be involved in old homes (btw something I have also loved to do and she is  living in the old home I always wanted to live in) that she would have the need to mention that she was engaged and name my ex specifically. ation.

She's extremely possessive (staking her claim) and probably feels threatened. I've had something similar. Not sure how it helps you and your family to know this - for me, it was a small moment of being on higher ground - like 'who does that?'  - not caring who they hurt as long as everyone knows they've got the candy. You can keep joining the dots from there. But then your xH, he waved it through - he's either too cowardly to tell you all himself or he's just handed the steering wheel to her and shut his eyes (or both?). Either way, is this the person you'd want to be in a relationship with now? I can only imagine the pain of the final nail when you found out about the pregnancy and engagement, the emotional attachment takes a long time to severe I think.

As you say, you have great kids and a household of love. You don't need to tell the local paper, you know what you have, it's solid. You have nothing to prove.

[UrsaMajor]

I did find it odd that in an article about how ow liked to be involved in old homes (btw something I have also loved to do and she is  living in the old home I always wanted to live in) that she would have the need to mention that she was engaged and name my ex specifically. ation.

She's extremely possessive (staking her claim) and probably feels threatened. I've had something similar.

Oh joy.... You've got yourself a Bunny Boiler....

[Raphael]

Thank you so much. Yes, I keep wondering who does this
. I hurt for my kids , but I will be there for them and continue to work on myself.

[Raphael]

I hope it is ok that I am responding to my own post. I feel like my mind is all over the place and that I cannot string one thought to another. Please excuse my rambling.
I have had a hard few days but went back and reread all of your responses and advice. I see from my own posts where I am stuck and rereading your advice is invaluable.  It's so nice to hear from people who understand.  Right now I am just so tired and know I need to  give myself some grace.  I know I will feel better again and look forward to that.
Thank you all so much!

[UrsaMajor]

This is where the old saying about "Rome not being built in a day" comes to mind.

What you describe is perfectly normal when someone that you have loved and trusted has decided to shove a grenade in your pants, run away and then laughed about it.  Just when we think we are finally out of the woods and a bit more "stable" something happens that tosses us all off-kilter again.... Just that, the next time, it takes less time/effort to find our way back to center.

If you were to go back to 2016 when I got here, you'd also see that my writings were all over the place, like tossing a bowl of Spaghetti at the wall to see what stuck because I had NO freaking clue what was going on or what had just hit me except for the fact I felt like it had been some sort of 40-ton semi.....

It takes time to be able to find our way through what's left of our lives and to rebuild them.

Yes, give yourself grace, give yourself permission to feel and to heal.  It will happen....

[Raphael]

Thank you!

[FaithWalker]

I was glad to read an update from you R, but I'm sorry about the newspaper article!  Makes you wish that the newspaper could print a correction that says "....with her 3 month old and fiance, xxx, who was someone else's husband when they got together."

LOL

When my exH was running for political office, there were people looking to dig up dirt on him and they would have found out.  I thought about posting to them anonymously but I took the high road.