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Author Topic: Discussion Anyone else have a vanisher 23?

nah

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Discussion Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
OP: January 13, 2022, 05:28:46 AM
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 12:06:40 PM by OffRoad »
H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

nah

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#1: January 13, 2022, 05:59:52 AM
Nas,
I completely understand what you were talking about n the previous thread.
I was having breakfast at a friend’s diner yesterday (we went to high school together, as did my current husband, so we all have many mutual friends). She was talking about another hs friend, how she was constantly posting on Facebook about her breakup.
I still have the need to defend the betrayed. Several people joined the discussion. Facebook is not the place to air your grievances. I agree with that point. BUT… it doesn’t always “take two”. Sometimes one does not know. Why do so many want to blame the victim? Not much different than pointing out what a rape victim was wearing, or why was she in that place!
I guess with all the time that has passed, I no longer need to vent for myself but I will always defend the betrayed.
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H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#2: January 13, 2022, 06:14:55 AM
My STBXW is definitely a vanisher.  Haven’t been in her physical presence since thanksgiving 2020.  I have seen her at church from a distance or driving down the road as she only lives about 3 miles away.  Don’t understand why she didn’t move farther away.  I used to have my sons invite her over to the house for holidays to “eat cake” with us but stopped doing that once she started her PA with college boy (former HS classmate of S22).  Found out recently that she had 2 secret fantasy obsessions with former HS classmates of S20 prior to the PA.

Don’t know much about what she has been up to the past year.  She has also almost completely vanished from S22 and S20 lives as well.  She dropped off Christmas gifts on the front porch on 1/7 after both boys had left for the holidays.  Just gift bags full of candy and a card.  Been tempted to snoop at the card but haven’t.  Have eaten some of the candy though.

Wonder if she will ever have the courage to speak with me directly again?  I never confronted her with any of the things I know as I didn’t want it to cause any friction in the divorce proceedings.  Sometimes I wonder if I could use what I know to get a more favorable settlement but I don’t want to be that type of person.  Knowing what I know is my burden to bear.  I haven’t told anyone besides my priest and therapist and plan on keeping it this way for now and perhaps forever.

HD
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Together 27 years & Married 22 at BD & 25 at D-Day
S24 S22
BD 9/29/19 (Moved out unannounced while I was away for weekend with no prior warning.)
Served D on 10/19/20 and D Final 11/10/2022

nah

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#3: January 13, 2022, 04:21:03 PM
Geez.
No wonder she’s a vanisher. I would hide from my family too if I was banging a child.  :o

HD, I can tell you from experience. That young boy has nothing on you. He’s just feeding her ego. All my “Stella got her groove back” supporters cheered when I boasted that I had a 22 yr old.
The sex was “meh”. It was all about “look how sexy I am, I can get a young one”.
 Big surprise. Men don’t care. They just want sex.

I know you heard this a million times. There is no way in Hell that this relationship will last. No 30 year old guy will want to stay with grandma, she has a serious crash coming in her future.
But luckily your happiness does not depend on her. 
You are now free, do something amazing!
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H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#4: January 14, 2022, 08:58:33 AM
Nah, I think the old "takes 2" adage stems from a place of comfort and complacency.   Of course, both people add to the relationship, but that doesn't mean the relationship is balanced or equitable.  None of us knows what happens in another's relationship,  and only if or until it happens to us, we don't ever give a thought to or partner completely abandoning us and running  away like a coward.  In these cases, I think the bystanding people try to "protect" themselves from the reality that this same fate could very well befall them, too, so it's easier for them to create the scenario of the broken relationship being caused by the failures of both parties.  The truth is, you may well have all the faith in the world that your spouse is faithful and devoted to keeping the vows he/she pledged,  but you can never really know for certain what lies below the surface.

Sure, I probably did many things over the course of 18 years that rubbed my xh the wrong way, so yes,  I did contribute, but, my xh chose not to address those irritating actions with me.  Instead, he chose to share them with another woman who was all too willing to comfort him and agreeably convince him that I was the devil he'd made me to be.  That is how every single affair starts...with the demonization of the unwitting spouse because the response it gets from the AP further validates the despicable behavior.  So, all that being said, it does take 2 people working together to make a marriage work, but it only takes one to selfishly and cowardly destroy it.  And, while I agree that social media probably isn't the ideal place to air such grievances,  I do understand the temptation of letting it all hang out there for the world to see.  I know I certainly let some things be known on FB around the time of my betrayal.  At that time, the shock and pain were so strong that I needed a voice and outlet,  and FB filled that need.
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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#5: January 26, 2022, 08:23:17 AM
Something about the changing of the new year - this specific new year - left me feeling strange (not sure how to explain it). It's 2022, how did that happen? The last several years were a blur of lost time. There's a whole block I don't remember at all except brief flashes of being hooked up to an IV.
I think it's that the passage of time creeps up on you when you have a vanisher, the sudden-but-not-sudden realization that the last time I saw my former H was truly the last time. How the children in our lives that were young and innocent are now teenagers, how places we went are now gone or replaced by new places. I drove by the mall where we used to do our Christmas shopping and it's empty and desolate and the parking lot is all overgrown with weeds poking through the concrete. I pulled over to the side of the road and cried a little and that reaction absolutely surprised me. With each passing year, he gets further and further away from me, and it feels like the old me gets further away too. Which is hard because the rebooted me was supposed to be this smart, interesting, independent bad ass and...well, that's not gone as planned.

Even though I could never have him in my life again, I do sometimes really miss parts of my life. I miss having a place that was mine, where I felt like I truly was finally on stable, solid ground and I was safe. And if I'm being honest, it was nice to feel like someone was my person, even if he really never was and it all turned out in the end to not be real. Sometimes bits of memories that I've forgotten pop up to remind me that it was indeed so crazy. The email after I moved away where he lamented that I didn't care about him anymore (because I moved to try to start over...after he literally destroyed everything, left - with the dog - and moved in with his girlfriend  ::))
I don't want the memories, honestly. They remind me that I failed. I cared too much. I gave too much and took nothing for myself. After he burned everything down, I could've bent over backwards and still be pretzeling myself and he'd still be popping up now and then with messages filled with projection or self-pity...but he'd still be gone. And I'd still be navigating through all this alone. That's maybe the only thing I'm truly proud of myself for in my entire life so far, that I shut the door on what might've been endless crumbs and madness. My marriage was all about him and I thought I'll be damned if the end of our marriage and the rest of my life is all about him too. No way.
Not much to be proud of, but at least it's something. Whatever inner turmoil he's been dealing with for all these years, I've been dealing with that and so much more, and at least he has his physical health and he gets to have someone there with him.

Not sure where I'm going with this. I've just been feeling wistful since the start of the new year. It'll pass, but I know my clanishers know what I'm talking about. It's too bad vanishers don't take the memories with them when they vanish.

ETA: I forgot to say, this lyric describes my pre-BD life:
And when I squinted
The world seemed rose-tinted


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyrpRzdvp5U
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« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 08:45:07 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#6: January 26, 2022, 09:09:55 AM
Oh my days, thank goodness for you  :)
Me too.
Have been feeling sort of, idk, glum and could not put my finger on it.
But I could have written a lot of what you wrote, Nas, about time and me and missing things and weird memories and gaps. There are lots of weeds now in the cracks of my old life. And I don’t always know what to think or feel about that.
So, thank goodness for you bc I feel a bit less alone and adrift this evening.
A fire, red wine and pasta is my ‘pick me up’ plan. I hope you have something similar planned too xxx
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#7: January 27, 2022, 08:37:19 AM
Nas, I can also relate to a lot of what you said.. Maybe not so much the New Year but my recent birthday (45) left me wondering where the last 5 years have gone.. Life started unraveling when I was  40,  WTF happened to the last 5 years? As a matter of fact, I'm back to my IC to work through it because the "how did it get here? how did my life change so much?" feeling is very unsettling and something that I haven't managed to shake off even after all this time. I am in a new relationship so I'm not alone but, at least in my case, it doesn't change the fact that I'm still dealing with the effects of H's MLC and the grieving process of what, once upon a time, was my life.. Hugs!
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H - 46 (40 @BD1)
M - 46 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose)
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019
H gets engaged with OW - Oct 2019
H "finally" asks for divorce - Aug 2020
H marries OW - March 2021.. We are not divorced!
Divorced - Dec 7th 2022

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

nah

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#8: February 12, 2022, 11:06:07 AM
Clanishers… the universe has a funny way of dropping things in your lap when you least expect it. I felt like I had to tell somebody, and only the vanisher clan could relate to how funny this interaction could be.

BD was a whopping 9 years ago! Ugh, the betrayals, abuse, humiliation I went through. Clanishers know the pain. I spent years going through all the stages of grief,…denial, bargaining, etc.
I coped unhealthy ways, pain shopping, drinking, one night stands, etc and healthy ways, focusing on my career, meeting new people, connecting with old friends, traveling, etc.
The ex is now a foggy memory and I am now married to a man that appreciates me.
Throughout the changes in my life, I moved out of state for years and recently came back. My husband and I bought a 1860 Queen Ann Victorian fixer with water views on the edge of a very trendy town with little shops and popular restaurants. A local parade runs right in front of our house in the spring. It’s a dream come true for us. My husband also grew up near the area as we went to the same high school.
We have been living/working on this house for about six months now. It gets a lot attention from the neighbors as it’s historical, has the largest piece of property, in the best location and needs a ton of work. It looks like an old haunted house.   ;D
The house also happens to be within walking distance to several betrayers. Ex-friends, Switzerland friends that I have backed away from and the dreaded in-laws.
Eight years ago, while we were still legally married, fil died and I stood in the back of the funeral with my son while I was ignored by the whole family. The affair partner sat in the front.
Anyways…
Most of our new neighbors are great. There is one stuck-up pain in the @ss, she reminds me so much of my ex mother in law.
It’s an usually nice day today. Husband and I were doing some work outside as the nosey neighbor stood behind her gate to eavesdrop on a conversation we were having with a contractor. We then needed to do an errand, so we were slowly driving through town with the windows open. I was telling my husband how the new neighbor is just like “my ex-b!tch-face mother in law and THAT’S HER!!” 

Oh my God. With the window open we were about 2 feet apart. Lol.
We looked right at each other when I said those exact words.

I couldn’t stop laughing for about an hour.


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me-53
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BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#9: February 12, 2022, 04:59:23 PM
What are the odds? Well, now she knows how your really feel:)
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me 51
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M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

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#10: February 13, 2022, 12:48:11 AM
Quote
In these cases, I think the bystanding people try to "protect" themselves from the reality that this same fate could very well befall them, too, so it's easier for them to create the scenario of the broken relationship being caused by the failures of both parties.
I agree. I think that people do this all the time since, to keep our sanity, we seem to have to believe we have more control over our lives than we really do. Seems to be a basic human trait.
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#11: February 21, 2022, 08:46:18 AM
I had a serious car accident this weekend (I'm totally fine, and it wasn't my fault. Car is likely totaled). What struck me is that I didn't even think about my former H at all through the whole ordeal. Didn't lament him not being there or feel any way about not having him as my an automatic immediate "call in case of emergency." (To be honest, my first thought when they asked me who to call was "who will I be inconveniencing the least?" and the idea of inconveniencing someone with my emergency is exactly what it would have been like if I were still with my former H, it's just that now I am not blind to that fact.)

I feel absolutely no stress about this accident. It was scary as hell, but not stressful because I knew what to do, I have insurance, it may take some time but I know it can and will be handled. The insurance will cover everything and so I don't have to worry. Which put into perspective for me that really all I desire in life is to know that there's a way that things can work out. I don't need perfection or to never be inconvenienced or face things that are difficult or sad or painful. I just need to feel like when I face those things, there's a solution. And that's what I've been missing for a long time. Disruption happens sometimes, heartbreak is not the end of the world, but instability is terrifying. Not knowing that I'll end up okay is terrifying.

In my 20s and 30s, I said out loud to people more times than I can count, "I think I'm going to love my 40s."
I had spent my 20s and 30s preparing for my 40s. I had spent that time setting it up so everything would be ideal and even when disruptions happened, I'd get through them because I'd prepared everything with enough wiggle room to account for unknown disruption. My house was going to be paid off, no mortgage to worry about. My careful saving would allow for travel to places I really wanted to go.

I was totally unprepared when my carefully laid out plan was blown up. I had prepared for the possibility that any one part of life might be disrupted. I had not prepared for, or even imagined the possibility of every part of life to blow up all at once with my husband's financial crimes and abandonment, and then to start over and have it all blow up again with an unexpected diagnosis and everything that's happened after that.

So getting hit from behind on the highway,  spinning across three lanes and ending up sideways in the woods with my face in an airbag was kind of a walk in the park. Gotta love insurance. If only I could have purchase "vanisher insurance" before getting married.
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#12: February 21, 2022, 09:15:42 AM
Wow, Nas… I’m so relieved that you’re okay after that accident. Beyond that - the perspective that you have on this, after all that has happened in your life up to this point, is such a sign of strength. Sometimes the events of MLC, or other major life trauma, can push us into a narrow existence where we don’t trust anyone or anything - and we certainly don’t trust ourselves to navigate the ups and downs of life and relationships. But ideally, we push that fear aside and develop the knowledge and the confidence that we can make it through whatever life throws at us, and then we get to a place where we know that we will not only make it through, but we will use those challenging experiences as a chance to grow and learn.
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#13: February 21, 2022, 10:52:54 AM
Love the idea of vanishing spouse blows your life up insurance lol....some LBS should market that  :)

So, so glad to hear you are ok even if your car is not xxx
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#14: April 06, 2022, 05:37:10 PM
Since my latest treatment is absolutely kicking my ass, I thought I’d check in on my clanishers.
(I just got my car back on Monday. Funny how it was in the shop for all these weeks and I’m still fighting with the insurance company to pay for the extra weeks of the rental car, but, hmm, my car was returned to me with an additional almost 1000 miles on the odometer. 🤬 )

Anyway, today I was enjoying some fun post treatment dizziness and pain (so far, still better than the last one, when I passed out and ended up with a black eye and a hairline fracture). And at some point today, while contemplating life and death and love and monsters and men and choices, I realized the anniversary of BD has come and gone and I never even thought about it. It’s no longer a DAY. Now it’s just another day.

Sometimes I think about how much I once loved, and I wonder if it’s just my cloudy brain mixing up song lyrics with reality.

https://youtu.be/QMOM8l3ozuI

But it ends the day you see how it is
There is no always forever, just this, just this
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 05:39:12 PM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

nah

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#15: April 22, 2022, 05:34:23 AM
Nas,
You are one bad @ss survivor! As if having a vanisher isn’t enough, you seem to get knocked down again and again, yet look at you standing! (Not the hero’s spouse standing… the other kind.  ;D )

So I bumped into a vanisher the other day. Not THE vanisher, another one. Back story/ -
In 1984, I met “The Leaver”. At the time one of my best friends also started to date a guy. He seemed like a great guy with loads of family issues. He was 15, his mother killed herself and his father was a severe alcoholic. He lived with his older brother (21 at the time).
Anyways. I married the Leaver. They also married a few years later and had 2 kids. In our late 30’s, he hooked up with a 19 year old, they divorced. I never saw him again. (Quick sightings at some funerals but he would dash out without even nodding toward us).

I’m walking through my work parking lot and someone calls my name. I look, but don’t recognize and ask his name. He was offended.  ::)

He wondered why I was at this site (Moderna, yes, the vaccine maker). I explained how I’m an engineer ( I guess women aren’t supposed to have that kind of job.  ::) ::) ) anyways….
For the first time ever, he was super chatty.
You see, after my leaver left me, this leaver was the first guy he called. “Hey I’m a cheater, you’re a cheater, let’s hang out”.  :P
They started a business to flip houses, did it once, didn’t make enough money according to my leaver, and then this guy got cancer so my leaver dropped him.
I mean, what fun is it to hang with a sick guy?  ::)
Here’s what pisses me off the most… me.
He asked about the kids and I explained that my daughter hasn’t spoken to me since the divorce. He said,” I told the kids that their mother’s and my differences  had nothing to do with them,”.
To the non-betrayed person that sounds nice and reasonable. At the time I accepted his words.

Ugh!!!! What’s wrong with me?!???

I’ve been on these sites for almost ten years.

Their mother and this abuser didn’t have differences. He abused, betrayed and abandoned her!! And I didn’t call him out on his manipulation. We always wonder why others don’t say anything.

When I thought about it later, I was so mad at myself.


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« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 05:39:10 AM by nah »
H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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Nas

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#16: April 26, 2022, 05:59:18 PM
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much, Nah.
Even if you had said something, it probably wouldn’t have penetrated. The lies deceptive people tell themselves can run so deep.

My father (not an MLCer) pretty much disappeared when I was young and was gone most of my childhood. He couldn’t stand watching my mother abuse me, so he left. Left me there, but removed himself. (A fact it took me 40 some years to realize was not a reflection on me, and I’m still working on it, tbh).

After he died, I had to reach out to his contact at the VA as part of the funeral arrangements. “Oh so nice to put a face to the name, your father talked about you all the time. He was such a proud dad.”
Yeah, sure, father of the century. I cleaned out his apartment after he died…not a picture to be found. Not a shred of evidence that he was a father.

I told myself stories right up until the day he died., and even after he died. Still do. That if only I could have done enough or said enough or been enough, he would have been different.
And he told others, and himself, stories right up until the day he died too. And he believed them. Lie to yourself long enough, it probably becomes your truth.

Nah, the leaver you ran into probably really believes he’s a great dad and a great guy. And there’s nothing you could’ve said to shatter the narrative he’s likely carefully constructed for himself over all these years.

https://youtu.be/QAlOrSEX0Ok
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 06:12:08 PM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#17: April 26, 2022, 07:30:31 PM
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much, Nah.
Even if you had said something, it probably wouldn’t have penetrated. The lies deceptive people tell themselves can run so deep.

My father (not an MLCer) pretty much disappeared when I was young and was gone most of my childhood. He couldn’t stand watching my mother abuse me, so he left. Left me there, but removed himself. (A fact it took me 40 some years to realize was not a reflection on me, and I’m still working on it, tbh).

After he died, I had to reach out to his contact at the VA as part of the funeral arrangements. “Oh so nice to put a face to the name, your father talked about you all the time. He was such a proud dad.”
Yeah, sure, father of the century. I cleaned out his apartment after he died…not a picture to be found. Not a shred of evidence that he was a father.

I told myself stories right up until the day he died., and even after he died. Still do. That if only I could have done enough or said enough or been enough, he would have been different.
And he told others, and himself, stories right up until the day he died too. And he believed them. Lie to yourself long enough, it probably becomes your truth.

Nah, the leaver you ran into probably really believes he’s a great dad and a great guy. And there’s nothing you could’ve said to shatter the narrative he’s likely carefully constructed for himself over all these years.

https://youtu.be/QAlOrSEX0Ok

Wow Nas!!! Soooo sooo profound and wise!!!

 I am also so sorry that you were not protected and nurtured!
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#18: April 27, 2022, 05:28:01 AM
Quote
Nah, the leaver you ran into probably really believes he’s a great dad and a great guy. And there’s nothing you could’ve said to shatter the narrative he’s likely carefully constructed for himself over all these years.
so true!! They have to in order to live with themselves
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#19: June 28, 2022, 07:42:40 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this, but wanted to share.
There's a site I love that curates news and articles on science, philosophy, art, etc - it's called 3 Quarks Daily (3quarksdaily.com) if you want to check it out. It's fantastic.

Anyway, this poem was on the homepage today and I thought it might resonate:

Unfettered
I relinquished you more times
than I can count. Holding on
is too risky. A tight grasp

drains the container, leaving its contents
empty. My fingers poised for release,

both hands curled against your back,
I expect nothing. Anything more
is an offering. You have learned to give

for the first time in decades.
I must learn to receive.

by Leah Mueller
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#20: July 04, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
Posting this here as it’s Vanisher adjacent.

Today, the Fourth of July, is the anniversary of the day I woke up to find my husband gone.

I don’t mention that to anyone. I don’t put a lot of weight on anniversaries anymore. But even though I have much heavier, more stressful, scarier, more important things to deal with in life, this weekend, as I probably will to some degree every July 4th weekend, I obviously have reflected a bit on all the things that happened.

Yesterday I went on a hike with my friend and her husband and another woman, who is an acquaintance of my friend (a mom of one of her kid’s friends), and her boyfriend of several years.

So I was basically the fifth wheel, which I didn’t mind at all.

At one point, the three of us women stopped on a ledge that was pretty high up with a gorgeous view. And my friend proclaimed that she would like to toss her husband right off that cliff, I guess for committing the apparently unforgivable offense of trying to make her laugh by singing along to Garth Brooks in a Southern accent.

And then along the way I ended up talking alone with this woman for a decent stretch of trail. We were having a good conversation, laughing and chatting. Until the part where she, this person I had known at that point for less than two hours, said to me, “Jesus, sometimes I think I wouldn’t even be that sad if I woke up one day and *he* was gone.“

She had absolutely without a doubt emphasized the word “he,” referring to her boyfriend, with the unspoken part being “you know, like your husband did.”

There was a long uncomfortable silence and I could tell by the look on her face that she realized she had just said something completely inappropriate. This woman I had never met knew a version of my story that I’d never told and I realized that to her, I was *that* woman, the one she’s definitely gossiped about, the one whose husband just up and vanished one day. And not only was she referencing it to my face, she was making light of it.

She tried to backpedal and started spewing a bunch of crap about how my former H must be insane to have left me and “you deserve an actual prince” and blah blah blah. 🙄🙄🙄

I left right after the hike instead of joining everyone for lunch.  And later on when I was alone, I thought about relationships of convenience, how some people, like this woman and her partner, get together and then stay together, often for a long time, simply because they think it’s better than being alone, and usually it’s a “fine” relationship and they aren’t particularly happy or particularly unhappy, and when holidays roll around they know they’ll have plans, and on their birthdays they’ll have someone to buy them a card that says something really nice inside, and when it’s time for them to die, they’ll have someone to grieve them and I suppose that means they’ll have mattered and who doesn’t want to matter to someone, right? Right?

I mostly think I’d rather be alone than be in a relationship just to not be alone, but if I’m honest, there are those fleeting moments when “just fine” sounds better than alone, actually. I listened to fireworks I couldn’t see last night and out of nowhere I started to cry and couldn’t really pinpoint why, but it wasn’t about my former H. I don’t feel much anymore when I think about him.

https://youtu.be/xgFHo-Fhi28

Anyway, Happy Monday, and happy Fourth of July to the US LBS.
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#21: July 04, 2022, 07:33:28 PM
Nas-
 After hearing that hike I think I would have had a little private cry also. Not like you said about your husband, but maybe for the fact that people take for granted sometimes what they have. Focus on the small things instead of looking at the positives and those are the same people who view others misfortunes as a way to make their life they don't appreciate better, but mostly I think I understand the tears not for your husband, but for the fact the one thing she did say was right. That he was a fool and you did deserve better. And that it is also unfair that they put you in the victim roll for what HE did. I also hate being viewed as the one who had it all until her husband left. What I realize is those that view it that way, well their life must not be going that well.
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Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
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#22: July 04, 2022, 10:04:27 PM
Well, that sucks, Nas.

Sometimes life is hard solo, isn’t it? Tiring in a way I don’t remember being part of a family and a partnership was. Better than a toxic partnership, of course, we know that. But hard and bone-crunchingly lonely sometimes in a way that is quite hard to put into words even to ourself. I find that I can do solo quite well, but being solo is occasionally painful to the core. We’re not alone in that experience, of course. Like the Eleanor Rigby song, there’s a lot of it about for different reasons but I suspect we humans are naturally small pack animals so it’s not always easy.

I think there are some kinds of life-altering experiences, of which a vanishing spouse is one, that are almost impossible to describe to someone who has not experienced something similar. And of course dealing long-term with a serious illness is another. These kind of experiences have a lot of layers, don’t they? But people tend to only see a couple of the layers from the outside. Even emotionally intelligent and naturally empathetic people....which this woman obviously isn’t. There is just a lot that people don’t see and if they are unwise or lack life experience, they judge it based on their own rather limited window. If I had to make a list of the gut-wrenching things that came along with, and because of, and followed along after what happened....well, i’d need an unfeasibly large bit of paper and would run the risk of exhausting any listener into terminal decline. ::) I would not wish my experience on anyone and there is no way I would have volunteered for it.

Perhaps that’s why, long after we have chased our newbie MLC tails, it is still a comfort to have a place here where we know that at least some folks get what we can’t frame in words. Somewhere to feel a little less solo.

I’m sorry that it sucked. I hope not all of it sucked, but i’m sorry for the bit that did.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#23: July 05, 2022, 02:08:41 PM
It didn’t really suck, it just RE-magnified the fact I’ve always known, that this huge life altering thing that happened in my life is pretty inconsequential to others. Same thing with other deeply painful or difficult things that have happened in the past few years (or my whole life). If things don’t directly affect others, those things don’t matter all that much to others.

I’m emotionally ready to date again and have been for a while, but in other areas of my life, I’m struggling and that’s also a big frustration.  It would be nice to have someone who thinks you matter. There was a song in the tv show The Affair that went something like, “love is watching someone die, so who’s gonna watch you die?”
I watched that show during the 3-week period a few years ago when my parents died and my cancer progressed and my brother told me (at my mother’s wake no less) that I had to get out because his twentysomething gf was moving in and wanted “privacy.  I was absolutely convinced I was going to die (I mean ABSOLUTELY, totally, completely convinced; ptsd/anxiety really had my brain on overdrive). It was so hard to hear that song. It took my breath away. No one was going to watch me die. No one is still, but it doesn’t feel imminent anymore.
*(interesting sidenote for anyone interested in the psychology of asshats: my therapist is convinced that every single time my brother takes up with some very, very young girl, moves her in and funds her life, he’s attempting to “save” me over and over. Which, if so, is a repeating cycle of his that I’m really unmoved by at this point. I haven’t seen him since early pandemic and I don’t even think he’s with that particular twentysomething anymore… )

Anyway, it’s been a while since I’ve had to even think about my vanisher in conversation with irl people, so I wanted to share. Just a little annoying to still be taking baby steps on a difficult road and to hear so many people I know complain so much about their partners…way more annoying to hear anyone joke that they wished they could have a vanisher.
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#24: July 09, 2022, 04:00:40 AM
Hello clanishers, it’s been awhile.
Nas, I was just reading your interaction with that woman and I have another take on it. Now, I wasn't there so I could be way off, I have no problem you responding with, “nah, you are so far off, but —
This woman might just have been reaching out to you. She might have been attempting at a confession that she just can't take one More day. I have had people reach out to me with their problems. Kind of like, I've been through so much so I must have all the answers. It’s far from an insult.
Just a guess.
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#25: July 10, 2022, 06:39:57 PM
Nah, good to see you pop in. Hope you’re having a fun summer. 😀

I definitely don’t think she was trying to reach out to me. If she was, I would’ve just told her she needs to talk to her boyfriend anyway. If she truly couldn’t take another day, if she was that unhappy, he deserves to hear that before a stranger on a hiking trail.

People just say mean things about their partners so often, it just falls off their tongue like it’s nothing. I actually think, like in the case of my friend and this woman, they’re so secure in the stability of their relationship that they feel safe saying truly awful things about their partners because the thought of the relationship ending is truly unimaginable to them. They can joke about being abandoned because in their mind, there is no way in hell they could ever be abandoned. That’s something that happens to other people.

I mean, if I wanted to be real honest with her, I could’ve told her she didn’t have to wait for him to disappear one day and leave her to deal with a pile of humiliation, shame and reawakened trauma (and, as in my case, empty bank accounts, mountains of secret debt, etc). She’s got free will, she could leave. They’re not even married.  That’s how I know it was just a flippant joke. She’s not going anywhere.

I didn’t really think too much about all the vanisher-y stuff after I wrote my post last week. But this weekend, I seem to have fallen into a real deep funk, and being reminded of that old BD feeling isn’t the cause but it probably added another layer on top of a lot of other heavy, heavy stuff. Summer now holds a lot of bad memories. The last few summers have been a haze of endings, oncologists, anesthesia, exhaustion, instability, and way, way too much of an old familiar fear. And as the years go on, intense birthday depression.

Last thought about the woman on the trail, it is interesting to me though to see people get into a relationship and then complain about it. Especially at our age, how do you not know what you want and not settle for what you don’t want?
She was right in one thing, I do deserve “an actual prince.“ Except that my definition of a prince is simply someone I can have meaningful conversation with, someone who doesn’t sit around all year round drinking beer and only talking *at me* about sports. I can’t imagine getting into a relationship with someone who does that, knowing that’s not what I want, and then endlessly complaining to people about it when I’m the one who chose it.

https://youtu.be/QAlOrSEX0Ok
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#26: July 11, 2022, 08:55:47 AM
Oh, I see what you’re saying Nas. Often tone means everything.

My current husband and I joke about our relationship, just not in a mean way.
For example, I was making scrambled eggs the other day, and he asked for a piece of American cheese on them. Normally, he prefers provolone or Asiago on just about everything. I gave him a look, “oh no, it’s happening again” (He knows the Leaver flipped a switch and started to change everything he liked),
So we started to joke that Mustangs are stupid (current husband's favorite car) and Brian Wilson is overrated (Of Beach Boys, current husband’s favorite), next he will be shopping for spray tan and jeans with glitter.  ;D
Other people around us might not get the jokes.
Acquaintances definitely wouldn’t get it. The hiker’s “joke”, definitely didn’t hit like she thought it would. Maybe it’s how they joke with each other, who knows. People can be weird.

I get the “funk”, I get it too sometimes. I’m not sure if it’s age or what we have been through, or a mixture of both. I just to remind myself to live in the now and this too shall pass.


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#27: July 13, 2022, 04:43:12 PM
I don’t know how I feel about your mustang slander, Nah.  ;) ;D

I don’t think it’s how this woman and her partner communicate. It was actually weird, she was a totally different person when he was out of earshot. It felt like she was really repelled by him but pretending to his face. Between her and my friend who was complaining about her H, the tension was uncomfortable.
I never would have treated my husband like that, and I especially wouldn’t complain to others and not communicate with him. Kind of reminded me that it really wasn’t my fault and I’m a really respectful partner/friend. He was lucky to have me on his side, he just didn’t recognize it.
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

nah

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#28: July 16, 2022, 02:40:40 AM
Yes.
I think most of the people in this group are a certain type. We’re authentic. That’s why we spent so many hours in this group trying to figure out the betrayers. We just couldn’t understand how anyone could do the things our exes did to us. It was so foreign to how we think.
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#29: July 16, 2022, 10:26:15 AM
Yup. No lie spoken there, Nah. (Except
the kind of treatment wasn’t foreign to me, it was just that I had fooled myself into thinking that I’d escaped that kind of treatment and when it happened with him after so many years of faux security, it was a real shock to the system).

I found out that the woman from the hike told my friend after the fact she had “accidentally” referenced my vanisher situation and felt awful and wanted to know if I’d said anything my friend about being upset by it. (I hadn’t.)
Funny, she didn’t come directly to me to say she felt bad. She might’ve been afraid it would elicit a conversation in which I made the concept of a vanishing partner all too real. (Of course I wouldn’t have talked about it. I’m used to keeping reality to myself - irl, people can’t (or don’t want to) handle the painful truth of another.
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« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 10:27:46 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#30: August 19, 2022, 03:48:45 PM
Hey clanishers. It’s so quiet on this thread, though not surprising since we have, well, vanishers. Not much to report about ghosts.

I am currently without a therapist and dealing with a heartbreaking non-MLC related loss that I don’t feel like I can talk about with anyone, not even here where I’m anonymous. I can’t change it, I can’t change my perception of it. The only option I’m left with is to accept it. And it’s hard and I’m very, very sad. I think I’m sadder about this than I was after BD. The loss of my marriage felt like an ending, but in terms of the future it still didn’t feel as limiting.

After all, my marriage ended but I was still me. I was just me without him. Now I don’t really feel like me anymore either. I feel like I am at a crossroads, but one side of the road is washed out from a flood and the other side is unpaved and visibility is almost entirely restricted due to heavy fog.

I just feel like I want to remind newbies that the whiplash of BD and the pain will get better- even though it feels like you don’t know how to move forward or the thought of moving forward without your spouse seems impossible, every day it will get better and you will move forward and it is possible. But don’t wait. Don’t put your life on hold because you never know what might change tomorrow. Look in the mirror every day and remember who you are. Cherish the person you are right now, in this moment, and do the things that are best for you. These are days you’ll never get back.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-mind/201207/radical-acceptance?amp
“Life gives us lots of opportunities to practice acceptance. If you have a problem that you can solve, then that is the first option. If you can’t solve it, but can change your perception of it, then do that. If you can’t solve it or change your perception of an issue, then practice radical acceptance.”
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

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#31: August 19, 2022, 04:21:56 PM
NAS whatever you are going through right now. i‘m praying that you will overcome this too. I‘m sending you a lot of virtual hugs.
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H    45 at BD
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BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final, I'm done

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#32: August 19, 2022, 07:38:37 PM
Wise words but I am sorry you are going through more things.  I hope things will ease and won’t feel so heavy.  Hugs.
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#33: August 20, 2022, 04:08:09 AM
I’m sorry you are going through another rough time Nas

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#34: August 20, 2022, 04:09:55 AM
I think one of the reasons this thread is slower than the others is bc I mistakenly made it a “my story” thread instead of a discussion thread. Not sure if there’s a way to change it.
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#35: August 21, 2022, 12:07:10 PM
I think one of the reasons this thread is slower than the others is bc I mistakenly made it a “my story” thread instead of a discussion thread. Not sure if there’s a way to change it.
Fixed.
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 12:08:36 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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#36: August 21, 2022, 02:57:26 PM
Hi Nas,
I'm so sorry to read your update and hear that you're going through such a difficult situation.  What can we do here to help support you during your journey?  Sending you hugs and strength to get through. xo
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 03:10:27 PM by thissucks7788 »

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#37: August 22, 2022, 02:51:24 PM
Nas, sorry to read that you are struggling with a heartbreaking loss.  Sometimes accepting something seems like an impossibility.  I hope that it will become easier for you and the sadness will diminish.   
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#38: August 23, 2022, 07:28:14 AM
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I'm struggling and exhausted but just working on acceptance.
All we can do in life is move forward, but sometimes that feels impossible - or maybe not impossible, but pointless, like when I get to the other side of the metaphorical forest, there'll be nothing there waiting for me anyway.
Pushing past that feeling is sometimes pretty hard, but the alternative isn't any better, so onwards I go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHrHTuWm7WA
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 07:31:31 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#39: August 23, 2022, 01:08:44 PM
Big hugs, Nas. {{{}}}}
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#40: August 23, 2022, 02:36:57 PM
Hey Nas this too shall pass! Sending you big hugs!
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Me 43 at BD
H    45 at BD
Married 11 yrs at BD, no kids,
BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final, I'm done

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#41: August 30, 2022, 09:17:34 AM
So I had an interesting interaction a few weeks ago.

Across the street from my house is a park that sometimes has festivals, food trucks, live music. etc. Keep in mind that this park is also walking distance from my daughter (who hasn’t spoke to me in 8 years), my sister-in-law (3rd in line to the biggest betrayal, right behind the leaver and daughter) and a few other betrayers that are not as significant.
I’m with my husband, watching a band and a familiar face from the past stops, looks, and tentatively walks over. She asked if I remembered her. Of course, I said her name and asked how she was.

She is ex-sister-in-laws - sister in law. (Ex sister in laws, husband’s sister). By coincidence, the park where we were has a rentable boathouse, which is where the in-laws had the gathering after my father in laws funeral. I was leaning against the very same building. That awful day was 8 years ago. We were still legally married. The Leaver brought his young girlfriend to the wake and they both sat arm in arm in the front row. The in-laws, my daughter, accepted her and ignored my existence. I was a walking zombie. The pain was indescribable and they all blamed me for “making a scene”, which I was quietly sitting in the back until my azzhole mother in law approached me, but I digress.

“Mary”, along with dozens of others were there that day. All these years I felt everyone (except son) accepted that they were a lovely in love couple, and I didn’t belong there.

She didn’t hesitate. “Oh my God, that display was horrible. Him with that little young thang on his arm. I wanted to vomit. You were amazing, dignified. I don’t know how you did it. Shame on all of them”.
She went on and on.

Even after all these years, it felt good to finally hear someone else’s perspective.
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#42: August 30, 2022, 10:48:06 AM
Oh wow, when you have time that will be a worth while share. Did she have any new insight on how that relationship is? I assume not well. Very interesting. I still can’t believe your daughter hasn’t come around. I was terrified that was where my daughter and I’s relationship was headed. Something awoke in her when I told her I would not battle anything. That she can look back at her life and see who the parent that was the one who no matter what was always there. That changed everything, well so far…..

I hope you can share more details Nah . Would love to hear
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#43: August 30, 2022, 02:50:15 PM
I'm not really surprised by this woman's perspective,  especially since she had a little more distance from the situation back then. I think people closer to it just really want to minimize the damage and terrible things the MLC'er does in an attempt to make themselves look and feel better about their brother/sister/son/daughter, whatever destroying another person's life.  Either way, it is good to know that not everyone is drinking the kool aid lol
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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#44: August 30, 2022, 05:32:34 PM
That had to feel good, Nah.   :)

I'm sure she was not the only one who saw what was really going on that day and how she saw you only paying your respects with your head held high with much dignity.

I agree with her "Shame on all of them."
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#45: August 30, 2022, 10:39:37 PM
Imho anyone who uses a funeral - the kind of ultimate ‘it’s not about you’ event  ::) - to do a twu luv show and tell is lacking some tools in their basic human toolbox.

But it’s about this really, isn’t it, Nah?
Quote
All these years I felt everyone (except son) accepted that they were a lovely in love couple, and I didn’t belong there.
That little bit of validation, even belated, that you were not nuts, not unreasonable, not to blame, not unseen or irrelevant in part of your own life.
There’s a time, sometimes quite a long time, when we LBS can feel as if we are in one of those weird movies when we see horrible things but everyone else seems to be bowling along not seeing them, where we are screaming (metaphorically or really) that this isn't Normal but everyone else seems to behave as if it is and we are not reacting the way they think we should. It’s a kind of communal gaslighting really, isn’t it? Like a lot of gaslighting, i’m not sure it’s done with big malevolent intent....it’s just that other people find their version of reality more comfortable than looking ours in the eye.  But it can leave you feeling quite nuts.....tbh there are things my xh did or said that I did not tell anyone about bc it made me feel as if I would sound nuts just saying it out loud  ::)

It was never you, Nah.
Shame on all of them, as Thunder said. And it obviously bothered ‘Mary’ enough years on that she needed to say what she said.....which is imho a solid bit of evidence that it was not you and that it was not normal.
And I hope that small bit of belated validation soothes some bit of your spirit even now.
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« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 10:43:17 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#46: August 31, 2022, 01:31:47 PM
Nutballs, all of 'em. Nice that "Mary" told you after all this time, but what was the reason she didn't tell you THEN?  (Inquiring minds want to know....)

I have to say the one thing I have really learned from MLC and that is the quality of the people I know and knew. I get it if someone is shocked and it takes them a bit to figure out where they stand. I understand children needing to be Switzerkids for themselves and pray they get it if they should be used/abused/manipulated and learn how to keep that from happening. What I DON'T get is people who KNOW right from wrong, who DON'T think the behavior is appropriate or OK, and say nothing at all.  I suppose I am not so afraid to "lose" a "friend" that I won't tell them that they might want to rethink what they are doing (or even that how they left their spouse was not honorable). My true friends know enough to take what I say, weigh it, use what they can and throw away the rest. I do the same with what they say. How else can you know when you are behaving like a bozo if your friends won't tell you?

It is nice to hear that there were perspectives that were not "you didn't belong there." Because you most definitely did, exactly as you did.
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#47: August 31, 2022, 05:26:45 PM
Offroad-
 I just had this conversation with my sister the other day. I said if you were acting a fool And out of character you better believe I’m saying something. Her own son left his pregnant wife and has never met the child past the birth. I not only told him what he did was wrong, I have had in-depth conversations with him on fixing it before its to late. This was before his Uncle left me . I can not understand my XH brothers or mother just letting him be. Not saying a word. They just dont talk to him. His mother said, if he decides he wants to have a relationship with us I guess we will hear from him. His brother said, the next time I see him will probably be at his funeral and He doubts he would show if their mother died. I think I understand why my XH is where he is.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#48: September 01, 2022, 08:20:22 AM
Nutballs, all of 'em. Nice that "Mary" told you after all this time, but what was the reason she didn't tell you THEN?  (Inquiring minds want to know....)
My best guess was it was a funeral and there really wasn’t an appropriate time. I was the first one out of there (for good reason) and I never saw that side of the family again.

But yes, as the rest of you said, a little bit of validation felt good, even after all these years.

MadLuv, I understand your question of wondering if she has a window in their relationship. For me, no, I’m over 9 years out. Even though I called him a vanisher in the early days, he wasn’t. If I contacted him, he usually responded. Sure, the responses were not what I wanted to hear, but he responded. But that was years ago. He is truly a vanisher now. We have had zero contact for years (I’m not even sure how long). His life is his life and mine is mine. We are both married to other people now.
That being said, even though I’m more myself now (that took years too, old timers would remember my crazy 😜) , I am also forever changed. Some for the better, I’m waaaay more independent. Some just different, I carry grief for my former life still. It’s not painful like it was, but it’s always there.
My son said a few weeks ago that he felt like his father died that day he left, and said “you must feel like that too”.
Yes. I do. I felt like the husband and family I once had died.
I’ve accepted it, I no longer obsess, but it’s forever there.
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H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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#49: September 03, 2022, 12:51:13 PM
Totally understand Nah, I knew you were in A better place, but since she approached in that manner was curious if she offered more. I feel the same. Like it is a death and like you My XH always responds I just no longer reach out. And of course I read your book, so I’m
Invested in the story.  LOL
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« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 12:53:27 PM by MadLuv »
There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

nah

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#50: September 04, 2022, 06:43:23 AM
Funny you mention the book, ML…

Does these things happen to others with vanishers?

About three years after BD, a group of friends betrayed me (long story), and reunited with the leaver. The main couple of the betrayal group, the husband “Arnold” was high school best friends with the leaver but his wife”Peggy” , was the main sh!t stirrer. She loved drama. In fact, she cheated, divorced and then came back and remarried “Arnold”. She knew she could bc for some reason, Arnold is her main door mat and he goes back for more, again and again for 30+ years now. I’ve known them both the whole time.
They were very supportive when leaver first left. Peggy loved the drama and called me daily, I was desperate for support, weak, so I welcomed the calls. Once I became stronger, she became jealous, uninvited me to a trip, and made Arnold send the message that they ” had a vote and my personality didn’t fit the trip” !!
Two days later Arnold posted pictures of the leaver and his affair partner on Fakebook as the “best couple” for a contest.
I’m not kidding.
So I blocked them and never spoke to them again. Months later, Peggy messaged me, sent letters through mail, called mutual friends to contact me, to tell me that they missed me and adored me.
 I ignored every message.

Here’s the sad part.
I loved Arnold’s family. Met them through the leaver and actually spent holidays with them for years. They made us feel part of their family. When I was betrayed (from leaver and also Arnold), I had to step away. Arnold’s family never betrayed me but I stepped away bc of him. The leaver rejoined their band from high school, Arnold and his oldest sister.
During this time his oldest sister was dying of cancer and has since died. When she died, I knew I didn’t belong at the funeral. I sent flowers with a letter expressing how much I admired older sister. I wasn’t even sure if the flowers reached the intended parties.
She died about 3 years ago.
Yesterday I received a friend request from one of the other sisters. I hesitated (possibly a Peggy game?) but accepted.
“J” sent me a message.
Mainly- the mother also died (like many, I loved her dearly, she was a sweet person), J was living in the house with the oldest sisters daughter, until Peggy had them kicked out so they could sell the house. Oh, that definitely sounds like Peggy.
Here’s the main point, though, (if you’re still reading, lol)
The last book the oldest sister read was mine.  :o

Not only did she read it, she highly recommended it to the other sisters! She talked about how much she loved it and how proud she was of me.
I had no idea.
I cried my eyes out when she died. Watched the videos of her memorial (the leaver sang several songs, I wasn’t watching for him, I was watching for her) her daughter sang, people I knew and loved for so many years. I stayed away bc of leaver and Peggy.
I never knew she read my book and cared about what happened. Like the interaction I had a few weeks back with “Mary” (btw, Mary doesn’t know this family, it’s the other side).
So weird, many years later, within a few weeks, I get two validations. This one, way bigger and satisfying.
I always admired Vikki (the older sister), she was so musically talented and had a beautiful heart. She read my book and recommended it!
That means more to me than if not one other person ever read it. <3


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ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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#51: September 04, 2022, 10:15:09 AM
Isn’t it crazy how that happens. She found a way to get that info to you, didn’t she?? It’s a great book and like my journalling it was raw and accurate to the moments you experienced. I have no doubt in my story I have seemed unhinged at time, because I was! Haha not any longer.

So, let me tell you a funny story as well.
My XH wife ( OW) manager was a very close friend of he and I. She came to the hospital when my daughter was diagnosed with Leukemia. Raised money for her memorial. Over 2k. Brought us food and groceries. Well, she is the one that contacted my XH boss and told him he was having a relationship with the hourly employee. That I know was the beginning of the end of his job. However, when he got fired she called him. Said why?? Why were you fired??? Can you believe that? And he answered and took the call and never has once mentioned he knows she turned him in. His avoidance and will power to keep things in is unbelievable, but yes. 

I once heard a phrase in an old movie and it applies here

Don’t  apologize for suspecting people. Keep right on. Ring every coin you meet. There are lots of wooden nickels in circulation
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« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 10:26:17 AM by MadLuv »
There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

nah

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#52: September 04, 2022, 11:38:33 AM
Oh yes, the avoidant behavior.
In the early days I labeled him as a vanisher with MLC.

But that avoidant behavior, as much as it was devastating at the time I used it for my advantage. Even on this site, the advisors recommend highly to protect finances. If they will betray, we all know, they will have no problem destroying us financially. We can’t nice them out of this, so file and file quickly. When I did, he wanted to cut me off but in just a few short days I realized he was afraid to even look at me, so I used his weakness.
I need to pay the bills so either -
Meet with me and discuss.
Hand me cash.
Or
Make a direct deposit every first of the month for x amount.

If you don’t agree with the amount, call me.

When he made the deposit without a word, I knew I had him. Financially at least.
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ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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#53: September 04, 2022, 12:01:15 PM
Yep! In the depths of despair it is the one thing I am most proud of was to protect myself financially and my children. Also, No one can benefit from his death but me.  His W beat get all she can now ;)  He has to pay me weekly for another 12 years, so I will have to cross his mind for quite a while
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« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 12:02:17 PM by MadLuv »
There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#54: September 04, 2022, 12:11:31 PM
That being said, even though I’m more myself now (that took years too, old timers would remember my crazy 😜) , I am also forever changed. Some for the better, I’m waaaay more independent. Some just different, I carry grief for my former life still. It’s not painful like it was, but it’s always there.
My son said a few weeks ago that he felt like his father died that day he left, and said “you must feel like that too”.
Yes. I do. I felt like the husband and family I once had died.
I’ve accepted it, I no longer obsess, but it’s forever there.
This comment resonated with me.. I also feel more myself now, probably more than when I was with H even. I'm improved version of myself in many ways and I found happiness in things that I didn't appreciate before of took for granted.. But the grief for the life I lost, the innocence that is no longer there, the death of my former life.... that grief is still very present and I'm not sure it will ever go completely away
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H - 46 (40 @BD1)
M - 46 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose)
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019
H gets engaged with OW - Oct 2019
H "finally" asks for divorce - Aug 2020
H marries OW - March 2021.. We are not divorced!
Divorced - Dec 7th 2022

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

N

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#55: September 14, 2022, 08:29:52 PM
It’s a good thing I’ve been doing the work in therapy or my trauma response would be really bad tonight. I took a med I’ve been prescribed for sleep. And I’m super sick from an infusion I had on Monday, so just to make sure I slept, tossed in half a Xanax and a Benadryl tab. So I’m still awake but also a zombie. And I smelled smoke but it didn’t really register…

So now I’m sitting in my car because I’m drugged up and can’t drive. And I’m nauseous beyond words. And there’s a fire in the building. And the relentless blaring alarm noise is making my anxiety reach new heights. And I’m reminded I have nowhere to go. Sometimes life likes to remind me of that…
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#56: September 14, 2022, 09:34:01 PM
What I admire about you Nas is your resilience. You keep going even if things can be really very tough sometimes. Did I understand it right that your place is on fire? If it is, do you have family or friends you can call and pick you up. I’m so sorry about what happened. I’ll pray you’ll get through this too just like how you managed in the past. Thinking of you today.
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Me 43 at BD
H    45 at BD
Married 11 yrs at BD, no kids,
BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final, I'm done

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Nas

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#57: September 15, 2022, 06:07:55 AM
Thanks, DF. Gosh I’m tired and nauseous.

Yes, so there was a fire in the building. It happened right after I took a sleeping pill and some extra meds to ensure that I would sleep because I thought sleeping would help me feel better. Silly me.

The good news: the fire was contained to one apartment, the sprinklers never went off in my apartment, and at the end of the chaos, I had a place to go back to.

If this had happened even a year ago, I don’t know how I would be feeling right now. But this is why doing the work to start healing is so essential. Last night was a mess and triggering as all hell, but here I am today knowing that last night was last night and today is today and I’m okay now.

I had taken a lot of sleep meds, and I’m in the recovery phase of a treatment, so I was feeling extra out of it. And for what seemed like a really long time, I didn’t know what was going on and I of course thought the worst and was like OMFG, where am I going to go, what am I going to do.
Then at a point I drifted off to sleep in my car, which, if you know my story of being previously unhoused, was more for me than just a nap in the car. trauma triggers galore.

But it’s over now (keep repeating that to myself). Scary and disruptive things happen and it’s out of our control. But it’s over now. In the midst of trauma, knowing that is a huge win.

 
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#58: September 15, 2022, 11:19:42 AM
Happy to know you still have a place to go back to. I don't really know everything about your story but what I know from what you've written here is that you are such a strong person. I can relate with the trauma reactions as I still have them now. And it is really paralyzing you haven't healed yet, especially when those traumas are being triggered. I hope one day you don't have to take meds anymore for sleeping and I hope whatever treatment you're going through right now, it will be succesful and you will be healed totally. Rooting for you Nas.
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Me 43 at BD
H    45 at BD
Married 11 yrs at BD, no kids,
BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 seeing suspected OW2 (divorced with two kids) and 2 years older than him, H didn’t file the D
Clinging boomerang
6/21 H moved in with me; kicked him out 01/22
H turned into a vanisher, wants a Divorce, OW 3 (16 years younger and extreme sporty)
14.11.22 Divorce final, I'm done

N

Nas

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#59: September 19, 2022, 12:35:59 PM
Another vanisher story: my uncle was found in his house today. He'd been dead for probably several days. Mine was for some reason the only contact info they could find, which is odd since I hadn't spoken to him for a very, very long time.

He was married with no kids and he and his wife traveled a lot, so they never really put down roots. As a child, I lived in incredible fear constantly and he would show up every so often and "save" me from my abusive home life, take me to stay with him and his wife wherever they were staying, tell me I would be staying with them, then without explanation, bring me back home and then he'd disappear for months or even years, only to come back and do the same thing. Every time he showed up, I felt the same childish hope, and every time, it was the same thing but I never learned because, well, I was a child, full of hope and full of faith in people. When I left home just before my 17th birthday, I pretty much left him behind as well, seeing him only a few times over the years.

I guess at some point they stopped traveling and settled in one place. Two years before my former H left, my uncle's wife left him after 22 years of marriage. She effectively ghosted him. He left for work, she packed up her things and all trace of her was gone when he got home and she never told him why. (We can probably guess.) I didn't see him much but from what I've heard, her leaving broke him and he was never the same.

So today is a raw, rainy day here and I made my first stew of the season and was just thinking about how I can't wait to finish working so I can relax for the first time in a week. I have a deadline for work that I can't miss and it's a really detail-intensive job that requires my full attention. My phone rang and I never answer numbers I don't know but I answered this one and it was the police in my uncle's town. So now I can't concentrate. It's weird to be thinking of stew when someone is dead. I don't know why, it just is. It's complicated to think of our relationship and how now I can never ask him why he kept coming and going, why he kept sending me back to what he knew he was sending me back to. Why he kept taking me out of it in the first place, because sending me back was always worse than if he had never taken me away from it at all.

And I'm thinking of his wife. His vanisher. The police called her first. Her response to a call from the police that her exH was dead? "We are no longer married."  :o

So that's why they called me. Why he had my contact info, I'll never know. Maybe he was going to call me one day to explain himself.
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#60: September 19, 2022, 05:00:58 PM
Just got off the phone with my aunt (though I just think of her as my uncle’s ex-wife). What a looooong day this has turned out to be.
I’m trying to sort what I can so that I can extract myself and then process my own feelings. She seems to have absolutely zero sadness which is chilling - in my last post there’s a typo. They weren’t married 22 years, they were married 32 years, had been together longer than that. In the course of our brief conversation, she said the following:
“I would have died if I stayed.”
“I have always given everything to everyone and never gotten the same in return.” (Not from where I sat/sit, but okay…)
And, drum roll…
“I was seeing [my new partner], but he wasn’t the reason I left.”

Just had to share because those statements will surely sound familiar to many. Imo, it seems the narcissist and/or regular old cheater spits the same script as the MLCer.
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#61: September 19, 2022, 05:37:57 PM
Gosh that is something Nas and did you think of asking your “used to be Aunt” why they picked you up and brought you back? Certainly, 32 years they had conversations on this?  You have had quite the road in life and you keep going. It says a lot about your survival ability and hope for your future.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#62: September 19, 2022, 07:44:43 PM
That's quite a lot to deal with over the last week, on top of life... I'm glad you're still here posting and toughing it out. Hang in there.
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#63: September 20, 2022, 02:48:42 AM
Wow Nas...

Every time I think the WTF-O-Meter could not go any higher, a new upper limit gets set. That is all just so .... "strange" is the only word I can think of at the moment...

I hope that you were able to get back to the task at hand and didn't end up "stewing"(UM Pun intended) over it but, as you noted, it does raise LOTS of questions & speculation.... Monkey-braining at its finest, eh?

I REALLY hope that your next week is quiet. You deserve a bit of breathing space between WTF episodes...
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Me - 60, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 16, D - 12
1 Dog
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
Moved on in life

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#64: September 20, 2022, 04:14:50 AM
I’m sorry that this was part of your experience of being a young human, Nas.
Intermittent reinforcement is a mindf**k for big people, let alone small ones.
As UM said, very WTF all round.....

Unlike MadLuv, I suspect there was/is no benefit at all in asking the ‘aunt’ the question....I think belatedly I have learned that if people can behave over a period of times in certain ways, there are no useful answers to be found in them. Whether intentional or consciously, or not, folks who can do certain things are rarely cut to have the capacity or willingness to look at the questions let alone the answers. Jmo of course.

I have found that one of the strange gifts of IDK is that you are free to design your own answer until you find one that serves you. Self-evidently whatever was going on with them, and the other adults in your life, had precisely zip to do with you; you were simply acceptable or not so important (to them) collateral damage. And in a situation not of your making and beyond your ability to control some of the effects as a small human.

I don’t know what kind of story would feel right to you. I suspect, reading between the lines, that your ‘aunt’ was a barrier in some way that your uncle was unable to consistently address in how he chose to respond in trying to care about/for  you. And that the law of reaping and sowing did its’ thing in their own lives over time as it tends to do. I am sorry that they were not better adult humans, Nas, and that they did not provide you with what you deserved and needed as a small human.

But I hope the stew turned out to be very tasty.....bc sometimes a small good enough is good enough in the moment....
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 04:16:22 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#65: September 20, 2022, 09:54:07 AM
Definitely not for me to determine if it would be a benefit or not. That definitely was not stated by me ? I  was responding to her feeling she lost that chance “if wanted” to ask anyone. So, since the Uncle had passed the Aunt would be the last viable person. Not for me to say what would be a benefit for anyone but myself.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#66: September 24, 2022, 06:14:53 AM
Thanks for your kind words guys. The emotional toll is so overwhelming, a few of my fingers are pruning on and off. Ick, I didn’t even know that was a physical manifestation of stress but my oncologist told me that yesterday. So weird.

I’ve been thinking a lot about my vanisher ex-aunt, and people who vanish in general. Likely most people here who heard the story of my aunt and uncle would think my aunt was an MLCer. But she’s just someone who left and never looked back, and as hurtful as it is, people do that. People who are incapable of true intimacy, in my opinion. People who never actually formed a connection but just performed a connection for decades. That’s what I believe about my former husband.

The world is full of people just looking for someone else to bandaid over their pain. A few weeks ago I was doing some volunteer stuff for a local animal shelter and a man came in, I think looking to adopt. 15 minutes of conversation, during which I learned, without asking, that he was divorced and his wife left for another man, and he learned absolutely nothing about me because he didn’t ask (and I wouldn’t have shared even if he did).

This man has since approached several people on staff at the shelter to ask about me and say that he can’t stop thinking about me, thinks I was put in his life for a reason and some other cringey over the top bull$h!te, real red flag fairytale garbage.

It reminded me of some of the things my former husband said about OW back in the beginning, as if she were not even a human being but just an object on which to project.

People with low emotional IQ will always project onto others over and over. This man knows nothing about me and has obviously created a version of me based on a few minutes of polite, guarded conversation. Whatever is missing in himself currently, he’s convinced himself he can it get from me and that lets him off the hook. 🙄

I just wanted to mention that because I know especially for newbies, in the beginning it hurts so much to think that they are so “in love” with the AP.

But it’s not love, it’s laziness. It’s being incapable or unable or unwilling to take responsibility for their own happiness.

https://youtu.be/Fkc6TYIxNls
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#67: September 25, 2022, 04:03:48 AM
Quote
People with low emotional IQ will always project onto others over and over. This man knows nothing about me and has obviously created a version of me based on a few minutes of polite, guarded conversation. Whatever is missing in himself currently, he’s convinced himself he can it get from me and that lets him off the hook.
so interesting!! I think that is so true. My Therapist has spoken a lot about my XH inability to have true intimacy. What a sad state to live. Never feeling connected ever no matter what. Just basically to exist. I often wonder that as my XH continues his life with just a text message here and their with the children he loved so much all the while living full time with two grown adult children he didn’t know 2 years ago. I really can’t imagine.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#68: October 11, 2022, 04:35:53 AM
Wow Nas. Crazy story about your uncle’s ex-wife.

They’re everywhere aren’t they?

I rarely use the term MLC anymore, only if someone else says it. Usually I say cheaters. Seems the world has normalized cheating/abandonment like it’s no big deal.
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H-55
me-53
ow-31
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

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#69: October 11, 2022, 07:40:27 PM
Seems the world has normalized cheating/abandonment like it’s no big deal.

Exactly, and I think it is truly unfortunate. We have a lifelong obligation to the children we have brought into this world, and it is amazing how the abandonment of spouses and children has become socially acceptable. I find this mind-boggling, and it is difficult for me to wrap my head around. In my family, I had the first divorce as far back as my family tree can be traced, which is for several hundred years. Honestly, I feel ashamed about the choices I made, it had not crossed my mind that my husband could abandon us. I often ask myself why I didn't see it? I feel that I was immature in not thinking about the importance of choosing carefully. I am not saying that the LBS is at fault, I am just asking myself were there warning flags that I missed? My xH was the child of a man who abandoned his family, and it looks like his father was as well. So there was a long tradition of family abandonment and I feel negligent in not having noticed or thought this through, that this is a problem that might repeat itself over generations. The trivialization of abandonment of family, and the insistence that this is socially acceptable or even normal, is I believe to be a sign of societal and cultural decadence and decay.  I remember coffeedrinker (may she rest in peace) who was first abandoned and then tormented by her MLCer as she slowly died from cancer. People who minimize spousal abandonment, do not share my values, and cannot be my friends.
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« Last Edit: October 11, 2022, 08:01:42 PM by Returned »

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#70: October 16, 2022, 10:46:07 AM
I rarely use the term MLC because this behavior is so prevalent and yes, common, unfortunately.  Too many of the same stories to be extraordinary.  Just common, everyday people who are emotionally stunted and never really grew up.
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« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 10:57:57 AM by beyondblessed »

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#71: October 20, 2022, 06:06:43 PM
Wow Nas. Crazy story about your uncle’s ex-wife.

They’re everywhere aren’t they?

I rarely use the term MLC anymore, only if someone else says it. Usually I say cheaters. Seems the world has normalized cheating/abandonment like it’s no big deal.

It’s crazy how common it is. And how often people “blame” the betrayed, as though they must’ve done something to make their spouse cheat. Some of my own family members engaged in some pretty vile speculation about possible ways I might’ve caused my husband to commit emotional, financial and sexual infidelity. 🙄

Through my whole relationship with my former husband, I thought I felt safe, the one and only thing I ever wanted. That’s what I grieved at BD. Now I know it wasn’t safe, it was just familiar. A lesser degree of coercive control and fear can feel “normal” to a person who isn’t familiar with normal. But truly, my former H always had it in him to do what he did. The subtle signs were there and I missed them because I was used to so much worse.

I attended a fundraiser two nights ago and ran into an old neighbor. She said my old house looks exactly the same and I had a moment of sadness because I loved my home. Then she tried to tell me about some nonsense my former husband and his gf (née OW) had posted on social media specifically about breast cancer awareness month but I stopped her and told her I’m not on social media myself and don’t care to hear about his posts. She looked very disappointed because she clearly had some juicy story to share. 🙄

She sat at my table and we listened to a man in probably his 70s give a beautiful speech about his wife who died of breast cancer, the same subtype I have. He spoke about her with so much love and respect and pride, and it was clear she had meant so much to him. I had a hard time holding back my tears and when I got home, I had a good cry. No one will remember me like that man remembers his wife, and it’s because when I was young and didn’t know better, I chose wrong. I chose the familiar pain.

I  had this recurring dream on and off for like two years after BD and since my uncle’s death a few weeks ago, I’ve started having it again. I’m on the back of a motorcycle. I’m not wearing a helmet but the driver is so I don’t know who it is. We’re speeding down the highway and I have my arms around the driver’s waist, but I let go to push the hair out of my eyes and I go flying off the back of the bike. And then I wake up.
I think the moral is that in life, I wish I had woken up long before I went flying off the back of the speeding motorcycle. 🤷‍♀️

🎶🎶 The ghost of a steam train
echoes down my track
It's at the moment bound for nowhere
just going round and round🎶🎶
https://youtu.be/YfpRm-p7qlY
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#72: October 20, 2022, 08:38:29 PM
I think it is common to get “reasons” from people it might have happened.  I know I got my fair share, mostly from my mom.  It really isn’t on us though.  Their infidelity and betrayal is their fault. 

I feel the loss of never having that kind of love because I chose wrong as well.  I feel like I will never have that long shared story and love.  The reality is hard sometimes.  I look at friends or family who have successful, caring relationships and I feel sad I don’t and maybe never will.  It’s a hard thing to accept at this point. 

Just know you aren’t alone in these feelings.  ❤️
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#73: October 21, 2022, 10:45:58 AM
Thanks, MOS. I used to get kind of wistful looking at long married couples too, especially in the waiting room at chemotherapy when I was still fairly fresh from BD. But I realize I was only seeing a specific moment, a snapshot. I also know some people where the longevity doesn’t equal caring, respect and admiration, but rather just longevity.

Had my husband not left, I’d still be with him for sure, and I’d be married but still just as lonely and still thinking his treatment of me was acceptable because, hey, it could have been worse. So in that one sense I’m better off now.
It’s funny how in the past few months I’ve had more than one person say something to me about “soulmates” and they were dead serious. The silly ideas so many people hold about love sometimes has me thinking loneliness is the better option…

https://youtu.be/jbaKcxTW7A8
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« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 10:48:35 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#74: October 23, 2022, 05:04:22 PM
I saw this on an old thread and thought it was good insight by Melanie B
MelanieB
: Why are MLCr's so secretive?
#13: February 03, 2011, 12:58:42 PM
I think that the vanishers stay out of sight and out of touch for several reasons:

1)  The old team (i.e. your family) knows everything about you and may see through some of your truly stupid plans and ideas so, to put that criticism to bed quickly, just cut them out of your life.
2)  They lack impulse control for their addictions.  Removing the spouse is really just clearing the field of an obstacle to their fantasy life.  It is pesky to have old remnants hanging around cluttering your vision of the "New Perfect Existance".  Childlike, I know, but they really want to maintain the fairytale as long as possible.   
3)  The MLC behavior is abominable and I believe that even the MLCer knows that.  He/She knows that the things they have done are shameful, and shame is a driving motivation for the MLCer to run away.  After all, what child wants to face up to the appropriate punishment for their actions?  Well, put MLCers in that category too.
4)   Vanishers may, more than some of the other types of MLCers like Clinging Boomerangs and Low Energy MLCers, have viewed the spouse as more of the parent in the relationship (mine did, I was like his Big Mama, cleaning up his dumb messes, paying his bills, running his errands, etc.)  When they enter MLC,  they want to be grow up (or we think that they aspire to that developmental goal, or at the very least, they aspire to "freedom" without a parent-figure in the picture) so they gotta leave Big Mama's nest, and like a teenager, they do it with a flare for the theatrical.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#75: November 29, 2022, 04:38:27 PM
And old friend left her husband yesterday. I sent her an email with the donation request for my annual stocking drive and in response, she called me from a hotel 2 states away (alone, or at least she says she is…). She clearly has no plan but also said this has been a long time coming, she hasn’t been happy for “years” and sounded really annoyed that he said he felt blindsided – hmm, a long time coming so plenty of time to have actual respectful conversations with your partner and arrange a place to stay/live, but instead, dropping a bomb and leaving abruptly – during the holidays - and holing up in a hotel (though a really nice suite from the sound of it) with no game plan…sounds very familiar to a lot of us.

From my short chat with her, she has a really grossly entitled view of how this is all going to go for her now. Nothing about her life is going to change as far as she’s concerned, nor should it because she’s “earned it.” I also heard a lot of the complete fantasy runaway thoughts - she asked me multiple times to just pick up and flee with her to various places.  "Let's go to Sicily like on White Lotus and stay through New Years...no, let's stay through the spring." What, you mean you can’t drop everything and run off on an eat pray love journey at a moment’s notice??

Some of the big "issues" with her H are that she gave him a list but he bought different items at the grocery store and that annoyed her, he put the groceries away but did it "wrong," and one day this past summer they took a walk around their neighborhood together and he bored her by talking about the neighbor's lawn care.

I've known her since I was a teenager. Back then she spent a lot of time at my various apartments because I lived on my own from the age of 16 and she lived in her parent’s house until she got married (but her H wasn’t her first relationship). We had very different realities and I think being in my world was a novelty for her back then. It gave her a place to rebel and explore different sides of herself while still holding safe to her privileged world. I was never just a carefree kid, even when I was young, and she’s always been just a carefree kid, even now that she’s 48. For a while now, she's been sending me random texts with old pictures of us from the 90s (yikes, think flannel shirts over crop tops, very short shorts with combat boots, and very very thin eyebrows, lol). Everyone reminisces, but after a while I recognized this as something maybe a little more than just reminiscing. All the ghosts of boyfriends past - "I remember butterflies when I look at these pictures. What do you think he's doing now? I wish we could go back in time…”

I think this is true of a lot of entitled leavers, they’re always wishing for all kinds of impossible things like going back in time…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzZ-Mgi1My4

I'm guessing I'll hear from her on and off until she finds a/n (affair) partner in crime to party with her like it's 1992.
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#76: November 29, 2022, 07:16:42 PM
Do they have children? 
This is sad.  Wonder if her H will show up here .

HD
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M58
Together 27 years & Married 22 at BD & 25 at D-Day
S24 S22
BD 9/29/19 (Moved out unannounced while I was away for weekend with no prior warning.)
Served D on 10/19/20 and D Final 11/10/2022

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#77: November 29, 2022, 09:34:26 PM
No kids, HD.
She just texted me and told me to blow off work and go Christmas shopping with her.  :o She’s 5 hours away. I haven’t blown off work since I was about 23, and even if I could, I’m not driving 5 hours even if Keanu Reeves is there waiting for me.

I’m here for her if she needs to talk but she seems to just be looking for literally any distraction at the moment. (Don’t get me wrong, I’d give up both arms to be in a position to chuck it all and run off to Sicily, or hell, even to a city a few states away. But silly me, I managed to get to the destroyed life without the irresponsible “fun” of an MLC. I should’ve at least had a chance to run off to Barcelona and have an affair with a sculptor or something before I lost everything.  >:( Life is unfair.)

Just to highlight how odd these sudden “come join me a few states over…or on the Ionian coast” from her are, I haven’t had a conversation of any depth with her in years - decades, actually. We always see people writing about how their MLCer suddenly started hanging out more with different people or started reconnecting with friends from their youth. We were friends who were together all the time when we were teens because I had the apartment and no pesky parental supervision, but in later adulthood, we really had just kept in touch by sporadic emails or texts. Her more frequent texts that started suddenly with all the old pictures and “remember when” messages were a clue to me that something was up.

It’s funny, the random way MLCers/leaving spouses connect with certain people and it usually serves a specific purpose.
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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#78: November 29, 2022, 10:12:27 PM
Nas,

So true on the reconnecting part.  XW reconnected with her first boy friend from when she was 15 on FB who she hadn’t seen in 35 years.  Yep the one who got her pregnant just prior to her16th bday and she supposedly despised. Her parents convinced her to get an abortion which I don’t think she fully agreed with.  When he came up for a visit she quickly friend zoned him.  Surprise the 54 yo, overweight, disabled version was not what she was looking for so she couldn’t use him to replace her 21 yo boy toy.

 Life doesn’t typically allow do overs.

Glad she’s not a mother,  this will limit the damage.

You should go to Italy but with a better travel partner.

HD
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Together 27 years & Married 22 at BD & 25 at D-Day
S24 S22
BD 9/29/19 (Moved out unannounced while I was away for weekend with no prior warning.)
Served D on 10/19/20 and D Final 11/10/2022

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#79: November 29, 2022, 11:12:12 PM
Oh Lord  ::)
How strange to see it the obviousness of it through uninvolved eyes. Her poor husband....
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#80: November 30, 2022, 05:47:15 AM
Depending on the level of interaction with her, I might decide to document this but maybe should do it on a different thread so as not to take up the entire vanisher thread.

I’m just sitting here having my coffee before I start yet another long stressful day and a few thoughts come to mind. First, I really want to make sure it never comes across as though I’m demonizing her for leaving her marriage. The ending of a relationship is always painful, but there are ways to end things with respect and kindness. I never understand how a person can be in an intimate relationship with someone for so many years, a lifetime really, and walk away from it without so much as a conversation.

Treating relationships with other people as transactional is a deep trigger for me for reasons I could write an entire book about.

In some ways, her reconnecting with me is also transactional. She needs something from me, whether it’s an emotional Thelma to her Louise (I’ve actually never seen the movie so someone can tell me whether I would rather be Thelma or Louise 😂), someone to enable her trip back in time… whatever it is, there’s a reason and it’s more than just “I value your friendship.” Otherwise, she would’ve valued my friendship over the past years when so many things were happening to me at once. There was a quick “hope you’re okay” once or twice, but certainly no flurry of texts from her on days where I was struggling for a reason to continue on the endless uphill battle.

I am working on a couple of things that I strongly dislike, not the least of which being that I am at least right now struggling with why I worked just as hard or maybe even a lot harder in life but ended up with nothing…
and worse, and more shameful, dealing with a kind of jealousy, and I’m not sure if that’s the right word, of the way other people get to live their lives without the kind of struggles I face, even though I was so careful and responsible and blah blah blah (I know I sound like an MLCer). So I also want to be careful not to demonize her or the financial ease she has in anything she does going forward. I’ve documented here many times how I think jealousy is truly one of the ugliest traits. But I’m not going to lie to myself or anyone else and say that I don’t feel it. It’s really not fun to admit that. But I look at her situation and I feel a lot of things and to not admit that would be disingenuous of me. Again, could probably write a book about it.

So I want to make sure when writing about her, I’m not ever speaking through a green eyed psyche. That’s where my judgment comes in, and it’s wrapped up in my own trauma and experience and I have to step back and keep it all in check.

I will absolutely be there for her to talk to (with clear boundaries of course), not because I feel super close to her, but because I know how important it is for someone to be there when you need to talk. But like I said, I don’t think that it’s too much of a stretch to believe that I’ll continue to hear from her unless or until she finds someone equipped to enable her distractions and running.
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#81: November 30, 2022, 07:09:43 AM
I must admit that I had assumed that, in her head, you are an object with a potential role to play in her fantasy and had wondered how active or validating her support had been as a friend through your own hard years.

It is ok to be honest with oneself about our more squirmy feelings. Tbh I think being honest with ourself about what we feel at a given time even when we don’t much like that we do is usually what helps us to avoid unleashing or acting out those feelings on other humans. I will confess too that, particularly at this time of year, I feel a kind of idk, not jealousy exactly, maybe a kind of yearning envious self pitying foot stamping thing about others who have family that they like, who feel loved and not alone. A sort of ‘why not me/why them’ feeling which is not a very attractive bit of my emotional toolbox. Or useful tbh. But it swooshes through anyway  ::)

The only advice that occurs to me, Nas, if you choose to interact with this friend bc you know the value of feeling heard? Be appropriately realistic that she is probably not (at least right now based on the evidence you have) like you. The value she places on being heard may be rather different and her sense of self-centredness is unlikely to make her someone who behaves like a friend. And it’s important and reasonable to honour your own bandwidth without feeling responsible for being unable to offer what you cannot offer or scratch someone else’s itch. Emotional vampires can be a real thing  :)
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#82: November 30, 2022, 11:25:23 AM
That's so funny you said that, Treasur, I literally just made a joke last night to someone that I was being an energy vampire. Another fear wrapped up in layers, could be another chapter in my book.
Oh, and I guess envy is a better word than jealousy - jealousy's fraternal twin - and I could prattle on and on about my self-discovery there.

As for how this situation plays out, I've no intention of playing a predetermined role/filling a void/slotting into a blank space in her or anyone else's fantasy or real life ever again.

And as always, random song in my head:
https://youtu.be/s08jD3E6Mpg

"And this is why I hate you
And how I understand
That no-one ever knows or loves another...
"
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#83: December 01, 2022, 08:13:46 AM
Nas.

Going to see the Cure live next week!

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#84: December 01, 2022, 09:45:22 AM
Nas.

Going to see the Cure live next week!

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I saw them last week, it was beautifull!
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#85: December 16, 2022, 09:34:03 AM
Hey Clanishers.
It’s a bit slow at work so I figured I would catch up.  :)

Nas, that’s crazy about your old friend. I have little tolerance for abandoners, or whatever she is. My sister is an affair partner turned wife (they were both married), and everyone knows that I can barely stomach either one of them. He’s a Sargent in the police force and physically steps back every time he sees me coming.  ;D ;D

As for the person that abandoned me? Not only have I haven’t heard from him in years, I just realized as I started to type this, I don’t even know what year we last interacted. Guess that’s a good thing.

Haven’t heard from my daughter still. That date I do know. July 1st 2014.  :'(  I message her once in a while. If I message her too much, I’m a toxic stalker. If I don’t message her at all, I’m cold hearted and mean. I get it, Nas, you with finances, me with my daughter. We both did all the work but it didn’t work in our favor.
Sucks.

My son is doing good. He has had depression and anxiety issues, ongoing for most of his life. He’s very aware though (unlike his father), so he makes it a priority to meditate and exercise daily. He’s clean, no drugs or alcohol. Routine is very important to him, always has been. He has a job. Working has always been a struggle bc he stresses too much about people. He seems to like this one, though. Hopefully he will stick to it. Last month was a struggle. His former guitar teacher turned friend committed suicide. Ugh. My heart just broke when I heard the news. Since this guy used to teach at our house, we were all close to him. Even though they were ten years apart, the two of them clicked right away so he would stay extra hours all the time, I would make him dinner. After BD, I used to go to the club where his band played. So heartbreaking. By coincidence, he lived on the same street as the Exhusband. Weird.
So my son came over, we were talking about life and death, and my son said, “I feel like my real Dad died when he left, and the other person is just someone else that took over his body, you must feel that way too”.

I just slowly shook my head “yes.”
 
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« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 09:59:26 AM by nah »
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#86: December 16, 2022, 05:12:48 PM
I´m sorry that you got yet another confirmation of how far the MLCer falls and how for the most part they don´t seem to find a way back to a semblance of a whole healthy person. We spend so much time thinking it was the "us" and over time the way they treat their own children brings a new perspective.
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#87: December 17, 2022, 09:32:04 AM
Nah, I’m so sorry for the loss of your son’s friend.
I’m not surprised that this heartbreaking loss caused your son to also reflect on the equally sudden loss of the father he always knew and how he changed into something else.

As for the friend I wrote about, it turned out I actually had to distance myself from both her and her husband. I wasn’t surprised to start hearing from her a lot after she had left him because I was serving some purpose for her and whatever internal process she had going. But then I suddenly started hearing from him daily.  I don’t know him well and it became very clear it was for toxic, manipulative purposes.

She ticks an awful lot of MLC boxes though. Relationships end, even long relationships, and the person who leaves isn’t always a bad person. When you break up with someone and they don’t want the relationship to end, they are understandably going to be devastated and it may take quite some time before they stop looking at you like you’re a person who hurt them. But if you end things with respect and honesty and as much kindness as possible, eventually, if they are emotionally stable and healthy, they come to realize that, even though it hurt, you didn’t set out to hurt them.

I’ve been on both sides of it more than once, and when the dust settles, you can look at the other person and see they are just human, they are someone you cared for (and still do, but maybe in a different way). They are still fundamentally the same person. You can still think of them fondly and care about them and have respect for them, and they you. Break ups are a difficult but normal part of life.

We unfortunately can recognize the way a disordered person ends a relationship: the sudden personality changes, the unilateral decision making about things that affect both people’s lives, the rewriting of history, the demonizing of the other person, the anger, the entitlement, the needlessly hurtful and deeply painful insults, the cheating, the crazy spending… All of the things that leave the LBS’s head spinning. She’s doing it all.

But at the same time, the way her husband is handling it is chaotic and toxic. And with me at least, really manipulative and selfish. Like I said, I don’t know him well enough to know if this is a reaction to being BDed or if this is how he responds to emotional pain. I just know I don’t have a role to play here, even though they both seem to want me to play a different role to serve their respective purposes. So I hope they both eventually choose inner peace and don’t destroy themselves or anyone else completely, but it’s not a situation I need to have any part of.
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#88: December 18, 2022, 10:08:38 AM
Good call on bowing out of their relationship troubles.  No matter what a relationship looks like from the outside, a person can never really know what it is truly like to live it.  There are a lot of marriages out there that have some longevity, but that does mean they are happy, healthy, and balanced relationships.  Going through what we have as LBS may give us more insight if someone is acting truly mental, but even then, our own experience can skew the whole picture.  Personally, I'd stay far away from it, especially if those involved were never much a part of my life anyway.
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#89: March 02, 2023, 03:24:53 PM
A rare update on my own vanisher. I literally don’t know what I feel about this yet (I know how I feel on the surface, but I haven’t delved deeper yet and this one will be extra layered), but I had to share. There are things about my life that I’ve never told anyone at all, and there are things that I told my former husband that I’ve never told anyone else.  Long story short, I found out that my former H has been telling a version of his life story that includes some of the most deeply painful experiences from my life. He’s stolen them for his own purposes, whatever firetrucked up purposes those might be. Based on the way it’s come to light, I could speculate but what’s the point, that’s all it would be is useless speculation. I didn’t even know what to say and that feeling of being frozen in place with pins and needles crawling through my body is something I’ll never easily recover from. It’s not like I could dispute it, what was I going to say, “No, those deeply traumatic things (that I was never able to share with anyone but him)…didn’t happen to him, they happened to me”? Add it to a list of WTFs and “whys” that will never, ever be answered.

Ever since the discovery of OW, I’ve lived with the unacknowledged but just under the surface terror that he would tell her or others my story and paint a giant bull’s eye on my most vulnerable spots (a fear I'm sure some of you are familiar with). It never crossed my mind he would instead erase me completely but steal the deepest parts of me, parts that I opened up and shared with him, fool that I am. I wonder if I’ll ever forgive myself fully for trusting.
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#90: March 02, 2023, 03:37:13 PM
Wow Nas. That is something. You know during my marriage my XH would
Forget that I was the one that told him something and would share it with me as news. I always thought that was odd, but to take a traumatic event of your and make it his? Seem like he is looking for sympathy and he must have at some point been deeply touched  by what you told him and he knew that would garner some. How terrible and just another sad sad thing to happen. I’m
So sorry.
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Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
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#91: March 03, 2023, 12:26:09 AM
Ditto from me. I was actually going to comment on Standing Strong's thread, in response to what he wrote about his W repeating back what he has told her, as if it was hers to impart and news to him. My H did this all the time with his own particular slant on the information. He also also get the same symptoms as me when I got ill. I mean, instantly, as soon as I mentioned it. And not just contagious things. I never felt I could have my own sickness. I used to joke that he would get my menstruation pains at some point ;D - I don't know what to make of any of this. I used to think that he hated not being the 'patient' (or maybe hated having to be the carer?) but I also wonder if it is part and parcel of identity issues and not seeing oneself as separate from their significant other. So sorry Nas that this has come to light. It's possible he has actually internalized this as his own experience.
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#92: March 03, 2023, 02:26:55 AM
Ever since the discovery of OW, I’ve lived with the unacknowledged but just under the surface terror that he would tell her or others my story and paint a giant bull’s eye on my most vulnerable spots (a fear I'm sure some of you are familiar with). It never crossed my mind he would instead erase me completely but steal the deepest parts of me, parts that I opened up and shared with him, fool that I am. I wonder if I’ll ever forgive myself fully for trusting.

Wow that is, well, let's just say there are no words. Can't imagine what this must be like. Doesn't it just underscore even more how much this had nothing to do with you and everything to do with him? The levels of WTF disorder is off the scales.

As for trusting can you elaborate? How is it ever our fault for trusting, for being open and caring and empathetic human beings, for experiencing what in my opinion is the entire point of life? We all have our own histories and pain, trust that has been betrayed. But for me that says everything about the person who betrays the trust and very little about the person who trusted. I imagine most of us didn't simply meet our significant others and within 5 minutes shared our life stories. We built up trust and confidence over time, and that trust was earned. So how are any of us (or you) to blame?
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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#93: March 03, 2023, 02:56:28 AM
Ever since the discovery of OW, I’ve lived with the unacknowledged but just under the surface terror that he would tell her or others my story and paint a giant bull’s eye on my most vulnerable spots (a fear I'm sure some of you are familiar with). It never crossed my mind he would instead erase me completely but steal the deepest parts of me, parts that I opened up and shared with him, fool that I am. I wonder if I’ll ever forgive myself fully for trusting.
Wow that is, well, let's just say there are no words. Can't imagine what this must be like. Doesn't it just underscore even more how much this had nothing to do with you and everything to do with him? The levels of WTF disorder is off the scales.

Seriously.... People are constantly saying how screwed up the memory of the MLC'er is and how they rewrite history....  Revision, misappropriation, projection... it is all there.... and your x is a champ at it..... Does bring up the question "How does this benefit him?" A larger pity party perhaps? Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme and, from my perspective, diminishes the impact on you personally not in the least. The people who he is telling this stuff too will either be those that you have no need to debate with, explain, or justify yourself to or they will be those that just nod and say "Yeah, right"  because they know he is FOS

As for trusting can you elaborate? How is it ever our fault for trusting, for being open and caring and empathetic human beings, for experiencing what in my opinion is the entire point of life? We all have our own histories and pain, trust that has been betrayed. But for me that says everything about the person who betrays the trust and very little about the person who trusted. I imagine most of us didn't simply meet our significant others and within 5 minutes shared our life stories. We built up trust and confidence over time, and that trust was earned. So how are any of us (or you) to blame?

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#94: March 03, 2023, 09:06:39 AM


As for trusting can you elaborate?

I’ll try. My first thought is it’s his fault he betrayed me, but it’s my fault I shortchanged myself in the first place. There’s a much longer and deeper story of the how and why I came to choose him as the person I would build a life with, but I was not under the delusion I was in a fairytale marriage with Prince Charming. I saw clearly (but overlooked) his anger issues, his self-centeredness, his seeming inability to empathize with others’, his dismissiveness, his often acid tongued criticism, and I accepted that relationship as what I deserved. I was a caring, supportive partner but I didn’t even allow myself the prospect of having a caring, supportive partner – that’s on me.

This is all hard to admit. I arrogantly thought I was much healthier and self-aware than I was, and I kept trying to make myself and my needs matter to him, as if I had that power. Somehow, sharing these parts of myself with him was delusional of me, almost like a flipped upside down and backwards, “if I tell you the things that scare me the most to say, it means I can trust you.” I mean, obviously that’s ass backwards. That’s the opposite of how it works/ed with every other person in my life and in every other intimate relationship I had prior to him, but I don’t know, I guess partly it was the subconscious ticking of an invisible life clock and I wanted that belonging so much I was willing to delude myself. And I loved him and wanted a life with him, I don’t want it to seem like he was a means to an end. I wanted to feel “home” and I wanted it with him and only him – again, the reason for that is a longer psychological deep dive.
So that’s a rambling partial attempt at elaborating, but there you have it.
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#95: March 03, 2023, 11:59:53 PM
So it sounds as if you are struggling to forgive yourself, or that younger version of you, for wanting what you wanted and accepting what you accepted? That makes sense I think to quite a few of us....well, it doesn’t but you know what I mean......bc when we know better, we do better right? It’s like casting good seed on poor ground....it doesn’t change the goodness of the seed or how normal it is to want to sow. At times talk on this forum turns to forgiveness.....perhaps forgiving our younger selves and our old floppy boundaries is the real issue? And did that younger you do anything so very terrible really.....if the soil had been better, the seeds would have grown after all and the story would have been one of courage and triumph.

But we were never responsible for the poor soil.
Only for not realising how poor the soil was or that it was beyond our ability to fertilise it enough perhaps lol. Or that there were dragons underneath  :)
Imho people who are capable of very big deceit and betrayal deceive and betray. (Either bc it always was their nature or becomes their nature). Which tbh means that we should be less surprised by evidence that they continue to do so, right? It says something about our natures (in a good way imho) that we can still find it rather shocking. Bc it is not our nature, bc it is not how we rebuilt ourselves, bc we become almost allergic to it having experienced the destruction of it.

I suspect that these folks are wired towards a weird kind of codependency much deeper and more twisted than most of us can comprehend, that there is not much there there when it comes to a sense of self that is genuinely unfathomable for those of us who are a bit more integrated and self-conscious.

I can understand if it felt like a kind of violation. I can understand your immediate reaction. I can understand why you chose not to get into a ‘no, that was MY awful experience’ conversation. I suspect you may be musing on withdrawing at speed from whoever shared this information with you bc that’s a bit weird and unhelpful too imho....if nothing else, it shows that they don’t know you (or him) at all.
And I am sorry most of all that you have those tender painful spots in your own life history.
But I would remind you....which I suspect you already know now that your amygdala has probably settled down  :)....that nothing he says changes the the reality and truth of your own life story, of your own challenges and triumphs. Not for good or ill. It literally changes nothing for you or about you. It’s not very different than those stories of people claiming to have serious illnesses to set up funding pages, is it? Weird, a bit repulsive, kind of disgusting.....and it says nothing at all about all of the people who genuinely suffer with that illness or the tremendous kindness or compassion shown by the people who were conned.
Poorly wired humans seem to have a tremendous capacity for turning human treasures into s&it writ large. (Perhaps that is the reality of how karma actually works, idk)
Which is why it matters so much that the rest of us can see the difference between the two......
And that we can tuck our good seeds in our pocket, tap them now and then for reassurance that they are still in our pockets and move forward to sow them in better soil.....
And perhaps be kind towards that younger us who scattered some of our seed unknowingly in poor soil.
And remember that it was only some, not all, of our seeds.
.
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#96: March 04, 2023, 06:16:34 PM
You’re words were golden Treasur
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
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Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#97: March 05, 2023, 09:29:08 AM
I suspect you may be musing on withdrawing at speed from whoever shared this information with you bc that’s a bit weird and unhelpful too imho....if nothing else, it shows that they don’t know you (or him) at all.

I definitely could’ve done without hearing about any of this, for sure. And if it was someone looking for gossip, I certainly wouldn’t have been polite about telling them where to go. But this was actually my brother-in-law, who I always had a soft spot for and who after this conversation, even with my own mess of feelings swirling around, my heart broke for a little bit.

Having actually lived the events that he was talking about, carrying them alone my whole life, knowing that I will probably carry them alone for the remaining time I’m on this planet, I can understand his urgency to offload it, to put it out where someone else could see and hear him and not leave him all alone with it. Carrying it alone sucks. One of the most painful parts of the end of my marriage and all that happened was the bursting of the bubble I was in where I thought I was no longer alone with these things, that someone heard me, saw me and stayed.

And it made sense that he’d think that these might be things my former husband would’ve told me back when I was his, quote unquote, *partner, *the person who was closest to him, *the one he would confide in and show his true self to.
I sort of felt for him for having to even grapple with these stories about the childhood he also lived really made him question his own memories and experience. So I’ve set my boundary, and no ill will towards him, he’s just a fellow human trying to deal with the fallout and doing his best.

*yeah right

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#98: March 05, 2023, 10:43:20 AM
Well, we all know that WTF feeling that causes such self-doubt about your own recollections.
It was kind of you, Nas, to make space to see that in your BiL.
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#99: May 05, 2023, 07:55:38 PM
How awful, Nas.  I would rightfully be upset as well if word such as that got back to me.  The wtf factor of it all is sometimes just unfathomable.
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#100: August 01, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
I actually have 3 relevant anecdotes but I’ll just share the first one right now and will post the others later:
In regards to previous posts regarding my old friend who left her H and appears to be in the midst of MLC, recently she, without my knowledge or permission, gave my contact info to a man she thought I might "be perfect for" (whatever the heck that means). He initially reached out in a polite manner and so I thought, what the hell, no harm in chatting, so I wrote back. I really should have thought twice. We had a very few back and forth messages, light banter, nothing of any substance. Then, boom, he took a sharp left and sent me an unexpectedly forward message with an "unsolicited" picture.
So I asked my old friend, who the heck is this guy. She thought it was hilarious and said “we both need a fling.” Interesting, so in her mind, I need what she needs – which really means she has no knowledge of or consideration for what I need, she just doesn’t want to be alone in her “lost-ness.”  Apparently when she told this guy about me, she described “me” as I was about 28 years ago when she and I were young and used to hang out together a lot - she described me that way because she's living in that past and desperate to recapture it. Maybe she thought if she could bring me back there with her, it would make it more "right," or it wouldn't feel so lonely, who knows? But I'm not that person anymore - I wasn't even really that person then. I wasn't really all that wild by nature, but I probably appeared a little wild because I was entirely disassociated and simply living minute to minute, and some of my "wild" was also (now embarrassingly) performative. I couldn't go back to that existence even if I wanted to because it never really existed. I can't speak for her but I suspect that's partly true for her too and she's trying to construct a new self by reaching back to grab something that never even really was. Maybe she’ll realize that someday, maybe she won’t.

https://youtu.be/EfYGfJmTy78
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 11:00:00 AM by Nas »
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#101: August 01, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
Wow!!!! You know I met another LBS that lived near me. We got very close and went out a lot, but she was always getting into convos with men that were sending her “hot dog pics” she kept saying why?? Why do I get these? I said, it’s the vive you gave out. She said do you ever get them? I said NEVER. I dont give that vibe, so I think you are spot on with your friend must have given an inaccurate version of you.

I also would HATE and be LIVID with anyone giving out my number to anyone. This is also another reason why I find putting myself put there these days is scary. Heck if I didn’t see what my XH was capable of, how the heck am I going to be able to find someone now.  So sorry that happened NAS.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
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Feb 2022  XH fired
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Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#102: August 01, 2023, 03:55:30 PM
I know I definitely don’t give out a vibe. But even if I did, or even if any woman does, it’s still on the person who perceives a “vibe” and decides to take the action of sending an un-asked for picture. Similar to the way even if an OW appears to be flirting shamelessly with a married man, it’s still on the married man who decides to take action.

As far as not being able to see what your xH was capable of, none of us were, but part of entering into any relationship is taking a risk of getting hurt. We even took that risk way back when we first got together with our spouses, whether we saw it that way or not. There are no guarantees, that’s why it’s important to be in a place where you’re OK with or without a relationship. It’ll still hurt if you enter into one and it ends, but it will not knock us on our ass the way the end of the marriage did. I never ever intend to put my well-being in the care of anyone else. I know it’s a difficult and delicate balance because it’s a rare person out there who will be “right” for me, so knowing that that person is so rare but also knowing that it’ll be OK if the relationship ends… Striking that balance means I have to be in peak emotional fighting shape, as it were, before even entering the relationship to begin with.
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#103: August 01, 2023, 04:38:33 PM
Word, Nas. You will know when, and who. I don’t even know how d pic’s became a thing? I have no need. I’ll go out on a limb, and say a high percentage of women don’t need? Unsolicited pics, or grabs, or, or, or……….and then, if it accidentally happens to us, WE are at fault? Absurd. We can’t go out for fear of being accosted. We can’t stay in on the internet for fear of being accosted. It’s just the same old chastity belt being placed on maidens (who have no f’n clue why-their head doesn’t go there)…..but we are the problem, somehow? Well, some of are contributing to it, but that’s not me, or you. This is a man problem, and it can really only be fixed eventually by good men. I’m raising my son to be a good man. Part of the solution. He should always feel he is MORE powerful when he chooses not to buy into this crap. And MORE powerful when he stands up for his female friends. And MORE powerful when he seeks to become part of the solution. It’s not emasculating to be part of the solution. It should be the most empowering thing ever to masculinity.
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#104: August 01, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
I agree Nas.  One thing I have kicked myself over on all this is I have always been a strong, confident and self sufficient woman. I kept my maiden name even when I got married.  I gave up to much and lost my independence. I thought ai was being supportive, but in the end I wasn’t supportive to me.  I can never understand those that can jump right in again. You have to process and disconnect before starting again.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#105: August 02, 2023, 02:13:44 AM
Word, Nas. You will know when, and who. I don’t even know how d pic’s became a thing? I have no need. I’ll go out on a limb, and say a high percentage of women don’t need? Unsolicited pics, or grabs, or, or, or……….and then, if it accidentally happens to us, WE are at fault? Absurd. We can’t go out for fear of being accosted. We can’t stay in on the internet for fear of being accosted. It’s just the same old chastity belt being placed on maidens (who have no f’n clue why-their head doesn’t go there)…..but we are the problem, somehow? Well, some of are contributing to it, but that’s not me, or you. This is a man problem, and it can really only be fixed eventually by good men. I’m raising my son to be a good man. Part of the solution. He should always feel he is MORE powerful when he chooses not to buy into this crap. And MORE powerful when he stands up for his female friends. And MORE powerful when he seeks to become part of the solution. It’s not emasculating to be part of the solution. It should be the most empowering thing ever to masculinity.

totally agree with that. As a man, I would never send such a picture. It sounds very childish to me. Who could want such a relationship ? I feel sad for men imagining relationships with women can be purely sexual. I know it comes from hormones, yes but it is not an excuse. Culture and education are the right answers, I agree. It is a question of power, yes, it is also a question of happiness. What makes life beautiful is desire, time, and uncertainty. Babies want their needs to be immediately fullfilled. Teenagers and spouses in crisis also. But when we raise children, we know that giving immediately what they ask is not the right answer. Children getting immediately what they want are frustrated and unhappy.

Now I am living with kind of chastity belt. Looks like I am forced to wear it due to the MLC of my W. But when I make it a conscious choice to wear it, that makes a difference for my mind. When I understood the MLC could be for years, I got temptations : I searched the announcements for prostitution or "massage", I subscribed to dating sites. And I unsuscribed the day after just after getting some notifications. I don't want this kind of relationship. Sexual intimacy is beautiful when it happens between two people in love. I want no less. So I am entering what Standing Strong is calling "hibernation". That does not kill me.

Final touch less serious : please continue to bring out the funny anecdotes like this one with the sausage pic. This thing is so ridiculous, we should only laugh of it.
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#106: August 02, 2023, 02:30:20 AM
Richard Pictures = "Little Richard"   'nuf said....
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#107: August 02, 2023, 01:41:40 PM
Second anecdote, which for me connected to a bit to my former H and what people tell themselves when they’re having an affair. I won’t tell this story very well, forgive me, but hopefully you get the gist:

I was recently sat next to a man while traveling and, after a few minutes of polite chit chat, I did something I usually don't do, which is exchange emails with a stranger. I was apprehensive when he asked, but a few things he said made me think he might be a good contact to have. After talking for a while (he talked, I didn’t really get a word in edgewise), he sighed really, really loudly and said out of nowhere: "Well,  for better or worse, I’m going home for a bit because [another loud sigh]...I'm getting married next week." Then told me how he's marrying the woman who taught him what a relationship should *feel* like (important to note the words here), because his marriage made him *feel* “about this big.” I said, "Oh, so you had an affair."
His face was priceless. After looking stunned for a few seconds, he copped to it but tried to justify in all the usual ways: his wife *made him feel* small, blah blah blah. Eventually, I told him just a very, very little bit about how my marriage ended due to infidelity and then sat back while he twisted himself up trying to differentiate his actions from my former husband's, calling my former H every name in the book while justifying his own reasons.

He explained that the impetus for the upcoming marriage was that his work kept him in another country for much of the year and his soon to be wife (the OW) has trust issues and was uncomfortable with the amount of time they'd be spending apart. (And of course marriage will totally fix that, right?) I talked to him longer than I should have, and I didn’t share much about myself at all but still wish I hadn’t shared anything – things just kind of flowed because I was so fascinated by the textbook nature of his justifications. It was like one cliche after another and it was really kind of fascinating to hear it play out. He spent A LOT of time telling me about what he does (it’s very, very important  ::)), where he’s been  ::), who he knows  ::), and the things he has (“11 cars, down from over 20…it’s kind of a sickness I have”  ::) ::) ::)). At one point he told me that in 11 and a half boring years of traveling the same route, I was "a breath of fresh air" and he wished he'd met me 30 years ago - you know, all things one should be saying to a stranger a week before his wedding.  ::) Though it wasn’t in a lecherous way, I didn’t feel like I was being hit on, and I can’t say what he really meant because I’m not in his head, but it felt almost sad, and definitely not about me at all - the most telling part was that he said those things to me after not having asked me a single thing about myself. He didn’t learn anything about me, so how could he know if he’d liked to have known me 30 years ago? They were empty words, and I wondered if he was saying to me some of what he deep down wishes someone would sincerely say to him.

It didn’t surprise me at all the way he talked about his ex-wife and his soon to be wife, like a script he’d memorized and kept repeating in the same way so as not to mess up his “facts.” The ex-wife was the first woman who'd made him feel seen, but as time went on, she made him feel small, she said things that made him feel bad. The OW/soon to be wife made him feel “good” – and me, meeting me was an unexpected pleasure - for what reason? He talked for a very long time, the words he was saying – his own words - made him feel validated and justified and he projected that onto me, even though they were his words and I never validated him once. That’s similar to my former H and his OW, from the little I know. He talked, she happened to be there on the receiving end, and he gave her credit for making him feel the relief he felt when he said a bunch of words that justified his $h!tety behavior, if that makes sense.

So it was interesting and made me think a lot about how people project and put so much on other people. I’m nobody, I was just sitting there, but he built me up into something more than a complete stranger, just because I was there while he was in a certain state of mind. He needed to feel "seen," so he told himself I saw him. Doesn't need to be true, just needs to meet the current need.

And then a few days passed and I did get an email from him. He wrote, in part: “I want to thank you for making a trip that is usually quite tedious pass very quickly. You truly are inspiring and meeting you was an unexpected pleasure. Certainly it has made me re-evaluate quite a lot.” Such words, to a total stranger, someone he knows nothing about. This is a man who, much like several people I’ve known, seems to meet people and then invent them in his head, which is sad because he probably doesn’t really know anyone. I would say good luck to his fiancée, but she knows she was the affair partner, so she’s probably living in a delusion just as thick as his.

Never thought I’d say it but I’m kind of glad I’m lost on my own and not out there trying to piece together a storyboard using other people as filler.

https://youtu.be/GJsYQY_ZXK4
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 01:46:58 PM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#108: August 02, 2023, 02:28:39 PM
The lost man or woman seem to do this. Fantasy on all levels Here he is getting married and already lost and looking for something else. A connection, because they just cant connect that deep emotionally so it is all made up. It is very sad. To never feel truly connected. Thanks for sharing. How very interesting
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#109: August 03, 2023, 07:28:31 AM
It is sad to think of never truly being connected. I didn't mention it's been six years since he left his marriage. He's still telling himself the same story after six years, and he probably always will. I would love to believe when he emailed me and said "certainly it's made me re-evaluate quite a lot" it meant he was re-evaluating why he had an affair and really looking at himself. But from other things he wrote, I tend to doubt it.
There's this interesting metaphor about a mirror that I think about an awful lot from a poet, Ibn Arabi, where polishing the mirror represents a polishing of projections of the heart and mind, resulting in a change of perspective. I said this to "airplane man" and he looked at me like I was nuts, or like he was horrified by the very idea. It is a scary idea though - I always tell myself it's time to polish my mirror, but it's hard, always, especially when I don't recognize the reflection. I can see where it would definitely be much easier to just avoid it forever, to never see yourself (and therefore never being seen or really seeing another). Easier, but completely undesirable imo.
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 07:43:04 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#110: August 03, 2023, 07:56:32 AM
Nas, maybe the mirror thing hit a nerve and that is what he actually is thinking about. Sometimes we never know what makes that switch flip and maybe you are the start of a flip of a switch. How amazing that would be to think. If experience and knowledge can come from this from your words. He really was lucky to have crossed paths with you if that would be the case .
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#111: August 03, 2023, 08:42:03 AM
Nas, maybe the mirror thing hit a nerve and that is what he actually is thinking about. Sometimes we never know what makes that switch flip and maybe you are the start of a flip of a switch. How amazing that would be to think. If experience and knowledge can come from this from your words. He really was lucky to have crossed paths with you if that would be the case .

Nothing external can flip a switch that is purposefully held down to extend the metaphor. I personally believe some people are wedded to their paid and wish to remain exactly where they are and nothing from the outside will change anything.

I believe this applies to MLCers and sometimes to us, the LBSes.
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#112: August 03, 2023, 08:48:43 AM
I respectfully disagree on that Marvin. I think that if a person is maybe already on that tip of looking within sometimes anything can be that flip. When I was depressed after the loss of my daughter what got me out of it was walking into a thrift store and seeing a woman and a daughter walk by me. The daughter probably in her 30’s was reading a huge old phone book.  The mother was beyond dirty and aged. It flipped a switch for me. It changed everything. It was the start of me opening my eyes. I thought this mother will never have a real moment with her daughter. I had 14 years. It changed everything.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#113: August 03, 2023, 08:59:44 AM
I tend to agree that it's got to be something internal that shifts. To go back to Arabi, when you hold a mirror, you see yourself alone, you're looking at yourself in that mirror. When you polish the mirror, you're polishing/shifting your own beliefs and perspective. It's a solitary process, and a scary one at that (I can attest). But if someone else were to be the catalyst to shifting my perspective, would it really be my perspective, or would I just be allowing someone else to shape my beliefs, or ceding power to someone else to create what I see in the mirror?  I don't know if I'm articulating it well, but that's how I see it.

I'm not saying other people can't support us as we shift and grow (I think that's ideal), just that the internal shift has to happen organically, on our own, for it to be authentic and lasting change (again, not articulating quite what I mean but close enough...)
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 09:02:48 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

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#114: August 03, 2023, 11:23:23 AM
Yes, that is exactly what I was saying or tried to. Of course this is a very personal situation for me. Outside of Just MLC but the death of my daughter. If you are already ready to face yourself I do think that it is possible an outside source can be starting point for that. It happened to me. I was in a deep deep depression. So, I know it can happen, but you also have to want to look at yourself. Why you are where you are. Ask those important questions. It is not the resolution, but can be a small start of your aha moment. Not a miracle. ( if that makes sense)
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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Re: Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#115: August 03, 2023, 11:31:13 AM
I respectfully disagree on that Marvin. I think that if a person is maybe already on that tip of looking within sometimes anything can be that flip. When I was depressed after the loss of my daughter what got me out of it was walking into a thrift store and seeing a woman and a daughter walk by me. The daughter probably in her 30’s was reading a huge old phone book.  The mother was beyond dirty and aged. It flipped a switch for me. It changed everything. It was the start of me opening my eyes. I thought this mother will never have a real moment with her daughter. I had 14 years. It changed everything.

In your example we are completely in agreement. You were not in a disordered state, you were not fractured, you were in a world of pain and depressed. In that case and with external input it may have allowed you to begin to make a change. And this for me illustrates exactly the danger of what happens when LBSes view a real MLC as a "normal" situation where we can influence, or a switch will flip, or they will "snap" out of it. There is no parallel to what is happening internally in a REAL MLC and what the rest of us experience under duress, hardship or with issues we need to deal with. There is a functioning foundation in us and there are challenges, trauma and historical coping mechanisms that can be altered. Even in something as difficult as what you faced. But without that functional foundation it is dangerous to assume external inputs really matter that much. If your ex is fractured he is sadly not at all where you found yourself after the incredibly difficult and painful event of losing a child (I can not even begin to imagine what that must have been like).

So yes, we do disagree in that when it comes to MLCers.
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#116: August 03, 2023, 12:22:58 PM
I hear ya Marvin. I do agree that there is some foundational anchor missing in the MLCer even thou I think we all have childhood FOO to some degree,but there is just something lacking in the MLCer that allowed them to and continues to allow them to not function properly through adversity and life challenges. So, I think I actually do agree with that. Where I think I differ is some come out and if it has been long enough that they are already looking at themselves an outside source of clarity may be able to impact it. Like when it is said that things you say now may not or most likely will not make a difference, but it may later. I guess in that way. If they have their own clarity starting. But… for the most part I agree with you :)
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 01:51:38 PM by MadLuv »
There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#117: August 03, 2023, 01:10:20 PM
Thank you for sharing those Tales of the Disordered, Nas. What it made me think most is how changed my eye on this stuff is nowadays vs how it used to be pre BD. It’s a strange life skill to be sure but sometimes this stuff just jumps up wavingly obvious….you kind of know when you sniff it, don’t you? I don’t like it much…I tend to move away from it at speed tbh bc there’s a kind of darkness in it like Neitsche’s abyss that I don’t much like being around…but it’s nice too to feel uninvolved in it.  :) Although, to be fair, I suppose one always has to be aware of our own cognitive bias after this kind of doozy of a life experience.

I don’t know that I know if - or how - these kinds of fractured folks rebuild or reclaim some kind of core, if they ever have a ‘mirror’ moment or not. I think I accepted a long time ago that whatever you need to have in your mindset to create this kind of destruction and damage seems to be a language I don’t speak. I’m grateful for finding that out actually….I’ve been to my own pit and it wasn’t the same kind of darkness at all  :)….so, whilst conceptually I can see that there is no rule that says these folks might not have their own internal shift as usually seems to happen in any kind of big recovery process, that archetype of a fall and a light out or step up, I simply do not know and find it hard to imagine how one might if one is still coming from a place of weird entitlement or a kind of disassociation between personal actions and effects. So, my most honest conclusion is that I don’t understand what sucks MLCers under and so I don’t understand what (or if anything) brings some/any of them up and out.

But I like the idea of polishing the mirror, Nas. There was a time when I would have found that concept a bit scary but now I find it rather hopeful and exciting in my own life.  :)
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


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#118: August 25, 2023, 11:48:11 PM
At some point, maybe I will share the lengthy apology I got from the person who sent me the D pic, if only for the wtf factor. Talk about digging the hole even deeper  ::)

Just wrapping up work after a very very very long week. I spent the day and night immersed in research on something I know nothing about, but since I’m working on a book project, I had to deep dive. I’m happy to say I now know just enough to earn a BA in BSing my way through the subject.

Anyway, something happened a few hours ago that has me feeling some type of way. And it isn’t really about MLC but it’s tied to my former H so I thought I would drop it here just to get it out and, who knows, it might resonate with someone reading who is married to someone like my former H.

I’ll try not to make this too long: One night years ago, I was working in my office on the third floor of our house. My husband was on the first floor, as usual, watching sports (with his four different TVs and a computer with multiple monitors to accommodate his various fantasy sports leagues).

So I was up in my office, on the phone with an author, who at the time held a very high position, was very often on the cable news networks and talk shows, and it was my first freelance job and I really, really wanted to impress him.

Our dog started barking like crazy out of nowhere on the second floor. The door to my office was open and I got up and closed it, thinking my husband would take care of it since he knew I was working. Wrong. As this author was talking to me, my husband stormed up the stairs, barged into my office, yelled at me about the dog barking, slammed his fist on my desk and threw my editing pencils at me.

It happened so fast. The author was still talking, so I panicked, ushered my H into the hallway and closed the office door again, praying that the author didn’t hear but knowing that he probably did. He didn’t say anything. We worked together for 2.5 years on that book, and BD happened right in the middle of it.

I worked with the same author a few years ago for another book, and we just started our third project together recently. So we have a working relationship and a really good rapport, but don’t and have never had a personal relationship. We work on one-off projects and when the projects are done, we don’t keep in touch.

He knew I was in chemo on the last book (I had to tell him as I had a recurrence just as the project was getting started ) and at that time he knew I was separated. I’m very thankful to be working with him again because for the most part he will be accommodating to my current scheduling needs. The tradeoff is that he travels weekly to all different time zones and connecting with him can be a hassle. Tonight, he called at almost midnight my time to check in and we were talking about short and long-term scheduling and other details, and at some point he said to me, “And the husband, he’s not…he’s long gone, right?” I think I had an immediate freeze response – it took me a minute to realize what he had said and I asked him to repeat himself. He said he didn’t want to overstep but he couldn’t remember if I was divorced and he’d always been concerned I was not in a “good situation.”

I’d always kind of pretended he didn’t really hear my husband that night, and here was proof that not only did he hear it, he still remembers it. It’s something he associates with “me.” For a minute I remembered the way I used to feel when I was a kid around all of the people who knew the abuse I suffered at home and, though they never offered help, they kind of just looked at me as though to them, “abused” was just part of my identity, a part that made me less than everyone else.

I’m mortified. And frankly, a little angry. Whether it was out of concern or curiosity or just nosiness, who is he to ask me that? I’m always professional, I’m good at the job… No, I’m actually great at the job. And on the last book, I performed absolute miracles for him (and did so while enduring unbearable life circumstances, most of which he didn’t even know about). And yet still, he sees me as the woman with the angry husband. It’s like I can’t just be the person who works hard and does a great job, I have to be reminded that he witnessed me being diminished (and then diminishing me in the present, albeit unintentionally, by bringing it up). It’s frustrating. And never ceases to amaze me, the ways that my former husband still looms over so much.
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#119: August 26, 2023, 02:32:10 AM
 I am sorry, Nas, for the challenge of all of those feelings popping up (I originally wrote pooping up before I corrected it….but maybe that’s more accurate!) and swirling around unwanted. (I think we get to a point as LBS when those pop up moments are deeply frustrating, when we just want to say ‘FFS I’ve done that already and I don’t want a return visit’  ::) )

You are entitled to feel how you feel and think what you think.
And
In the spirit of mirror polishing, I’d like to offer a different angle in case it is useful?

You were never responsible for your h’s behaviour which was s$itty and chilidish and abusive. Ridiculous actually. Neither were you responsible for how the other person on the call responded at the time. (Or didn’t. ) or the dog lol. You were only responsible for your own. And you did the best you could given what you knew and prioritised at the time. But perhaps you don’t feel too good about that with the gift of hindsight and all the things you know now that you did not know then. Shame is a f**ker, isn’t it? Which is understandable but perhaps not so kind or even fair to yourself. And maybe not so useful given that you don’t have a Time Machine. I have no doubt, even given the little I know about you from the Nas shared here, that you would respond differently today to similar circumstances - do you?

And the author? Well, I don’t know anything about their own experience of this kind of aggression and abuse…..bc of course our own experience shades our lens, doesn’t it? And you may not either as it is a professional relationship rather than a personal one. I don’t know how triggering it was for them, what they felt and thought about it at the time. Although I suspect it was uncomfortable in some way bc our little human animal systems tend to feel discomfort at best when we are exposed to this kind of thing even if we are not directly involved. And him not saying anything at the time? It was a new working relationship for both of you, it was happening remotely, it was a professional exchange centred on a specific task….a tricky call on his part whether to name the elephant or not, I’d guess, or whether it was unwelcome or presumptuous of him to do so.

What seems clear to me though based on the observable facts is that, while uncomfortable about it, he valued you sufficiently as a professional and a person to not only continue to work with you on that project but to choose to work with you on subsequent ones. It seems odd to think he would have done so if he judged you as “less than” in some way….or saw you through a filter of your h’s s$itty behaviour even. Quite a few folks would have chosen to avoid an ongoing professional relationship if they felt uncomfortable or saw someinevlike that imho. I read it as the almost the opposite to what you describe….that he had/has sufficient respect for you as a professional and a person that he chose to keep seeing you through that lens in your own right regardless of what was going on elsewhere in your life.

And bringing it up now? Again, no idea why he did or what might have evolved in his life or lens - did you ask? It’s true of course that, even at a professional level, continuing to work together off and on over a period of time allows a connection to evolve too. One learns more necessarily about the strands of another human the more interaction we have. And that can change the boundary lines of what we feel might be appropriate or not. Again, just based on the observable facts you shared, his language about it was tentative rather than direct, wasn’t it? Which suggested to me that he felt tentative about naming the elephant. And yet, as you say, the experience had struck him sufficiently at the time to stick with him in some way. Which tbh one could see as affirmation that the behaviour was as abnormal and disordered and plain wrong - and done to you not bc of you - as you would see it now. It wasn’t nothing. For you. And for him. Again fwiw, albeit tentatively, I could see what he said through a completely different lens….a bid to show support, solidarity, admiration and respect without galumphing over professional boundaries. Perhaps even some discomfort that he walked by on the other side of the metaphorical street when he now feels he should not have done so as a fellow human. I could see what he said as trying to communicate the exact opposite, supported by his actions too….that he chose/chooses to respect and value you despite the background noise of someone else’s s$it rather than viewing you through the lens of someone else’s s$it. And that he wanted to send some kind of signal about his choice to ignore the elephant in the past or reassure himself that you are now elephant-free and ok despite any past silence in his part or feels that the professional relationship has evolved now to the point where you might discuss the previously undiscussable. Which of course is more about where he is at than where you are at, as is often the case for we humans as you know  :)

No way of knowing but tbh the observable facts don’t seem to line up so well with that ‘diminished’ story. Jmo. And, again as you know, shame is a big fat manipulative liar that always seem to take the glass half full and turn into into a dung pile, right? Imho it’s almost a secret weapon of the disordered and abusive….not their actions but how we convert their actions into our failures. Just Say No, I say lol.

On a side note, working as a coach sometimes involves me trying to make a judgement call about when or if or how it is appropriate to name the elephant. Sometimes I call it right, sometimes not. Most times, I can’t know for sure until the other person has time to chew on it a bit. Elephant naming is a bit of a high risk contact sport imho.  :) When you do it in a professional context, and bc hopefully you are working within a good professional framework, you approach it with some conscious deliberation about your own agenda or influences and some respectful detachment about how the other person might or might not respond. A sort of deep professional kindness that isn’t about me is the best way I can describe it….tbh more of an art than a science.  In RL, we tend not to do that, do we? Either we don’t have the skills or the context is different or the implied (or explicit) boundaries and expectations are different.

I have recently been coaching someone who is operating in the context of recovering from an emotionally abusive (and sometimes physically) relationship. The coaching is not focused on that, but it flavours her lens significantly (understandably). What is interesting to see is how her default narratives come online and how quickly, how the words she uses repeat and tell a particular story which does not always line up with the observable facts. And how that is not always so helpful for her. As a coach, I have a level of permission, I suppose, to speak as a kind of factual ‘reality fairy’….to challenge the picture in the mirror, I suppose….but it comes with big health warnings even so. For her and me. Our mirrors serve a purpose….until they don’t. And the place in between mirrors is full of hidden land mines. On a personal level, I can find her ability to go from x blindingly obvious fact to y default narrative a bit shocking….but on a professional level, I know that this doesn’t matter, that my job is to help her polish corners and edges of her own mirror. And to do so with deep respect for her as a person. I have never, not once, seen her as less than or as diminished in any way by what has happened to her or even by her own mirror on it……I have frequently been deeply moved by her courage and resilience in surviving and picking up her own polishing cloth though.

With my quasi-professional hat on, I don’t know what you will take from this interaction. My best guess though is that something about it matters very much to you so there’s a fair chance that something to be found from it might matter to you too. Life seems to poke us in the eye that way sometimes, doesn’t it? And that you might find it interesting that it is so very easy for my cheap seats mirror to reflect a picture that is almost exactly the opposite of your own based on some of the same observable facts……
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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#120: August 26, 2023, 07:29:19 AM
Thank you, Treasur. In the middle of the night, just a few hours after it had happened, I was sorting my feelings on it but I should clarify that I wasn’t diminishing myself, if that makes sense. When I say he was further diminishing me by bringing it up, I think my frustration and anger was in the fact that – and I can speak with real authority on this unfortunately– sometimes survivors of long-term abuse just really want to be seen as people and not abuse survivors. I’m not talking about not having a support system or people they can lean on and talk to. We desperately need and want that but it’s one of the ways we we empower ourselves, by choosing who we want to let in to that side of ourselves and support us, and there’s a huge level of trust that needs to be there. Professional colleagues? I don’t want them seeing me as a Survivor, my work stands on its own. And I was lamenting the fact that he had even been witness to that part of my life.
Some part, you correctly point out, was a bit of shame that I was in that sort of marriage for so long without recognizing that it was abusive, but that shame didn’t take root last night because I have made tremendous strides in therapy, so it was more a bit of grieving for the old me that never had the childhood or relationship/marriage that I deserved, and when you learn that you have to be all of that for yourself and not rely on someone else, there’s grieving in that also.

But with this author, as I said, we’ve never had anything but a working relationship that ends every time a project ends. We don’t keep in touch in between. But he knew I was separated on the last book project a few years ago. And we have had many prep calls for this new project that gave him enough information to know that I am living alone and single.

I mean, what would he have done if he had asked me about such a personal painful memory and I had responded “oh no, he’s not gone, he’s right here. We’re giving it another go“? Or did he expect me to give him personal information about the whereabouts of my abusive husband or the status of our relationship? I mean I could ask a bunch more questions about his intent because there was really no purpose in him asking that question and there was no response that I would have felt comfortable giving him beyond what I did tell him, which was to reiterate that I live alone and I’m single. Again, not some thing I ever really should have to tell someone I’m working with.

We LBS meet and form varying levels of relationships based on sharing about a traumatic thing that happened in our life. But in real life, the people around us who don’t know us that well don’t get to just pry into our lives. It’s a flag I always recognize that usually ranges from a light pink to a bright red depending on the situation. Here I would not say it was glaring red but, again, there was no reason for the question other than “ hey I remember you used to be married to a guy who seemed like a real @$$hole…”

Again, any survivor of long-term abuse deals with issues of identifying as more than just their trauma. Anyone who has dealt with complex trauma desires support, people in their lives who can listen and be sounding boards and just care about them despite their past. It’s essential to healing. But the flipside of that is that it’s a label. It’s like a very heavy name tag made out of lead that weighs you down a tiny bit no matter what. I am so much more than my trauma and it would’ve been nice to just go into working on this project without having to wear the heavy label, without even having to think about it. He didn’t need to bring it up. He wasn’t seeking a solution, he wasn’t seeking to rectify anything. It wasn’t interfering with the project, it had nothing to do with anything. So it was just a reminder that when you endure abuse, no matter what situation you’re in and how much you’re kicking ass in it, some of your identity to other people will always be associated with that abuse. And again, it’s not done in a malicious way, but it’s a label that makes you “different” from everyone else, which is problematic because that being different is also part of past trauma. You don’t realize how heavy that label is until it’s hung on you.
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« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 07:32:36 AM by Nas »
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#121: August 26, 2023, 07:49:22 AM
Sounds like your instinct was that his comment was about HIS needs and that you resent that uninvited intrusion. Sounds fair enough to me. And ok, regardless of his intent tbh.

Do you intend to do anything with your conclusions? Or adapt the professional relationship bc of it?

I get some of what you talk about with labels, but I have not experienced some of the things you have experienced so lots of it not so much. I am instinctively cautious of labels if only bc my experience is that humans are so much richer and interesting than how we label them. I can see that some people, at some times, find a given label affirming or motivating. And I would want to honour that if called on to do so. But I hated - in my darkest days - people ra-rahing me about being a ‘survivor’. Partly bc I didn’t feel like one. And it didn’t help me. Mostly bc I just resented being labelled bc of the effect of someone else’s behaviour; it didn’t feel like it belonged to me and I didn’t choose it as a shape of me. And yet it was true that I had survived some awful experiences that I thought I might not….and learned to value my own progress bc that motivated me….but I think perhaps it’s a difference between describing a situation as opposed to describing a person. So, for example, I had been a victim of damaging things done to me by others but I would not describe my persona as a victim if that makes sense. Both felt true to me. That label ‘weight’….I think I get that.

Sometimes just saying No (or f**k right off) even just in your own head is a rather good feeling, isn’t it?  :)
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#122: August 26, 2023, 08:46:09 AM
I think I’m at the point in healing where I’m learning to distinguish an instinct from a reaction, if that makes sense, so often I have to distance myself from the situation enough to make the distinction. Which I suppose means I still don’t trust my instincts entirely, understandably it’s a long process. I don’t really know what my gut was telling me quite yet but some part of me wonders if he just blurted that out because he felt like he should have said something back then. But I’m not going to spend time trying to get inside his head because that’s impossible.
I know we can’t control the labels people put on us. The existence of the label itself is beyond my control, my childhood happened, that led to the choices I made in later life…It just sucks sometimes. As I said, depending on where a person is in their healing, being labeled as a victim or survivor is akin to being labeled as “different” and can be triggering. A small child being made to feel different because they are being abused and not having anyone try to save them, that self-blame and “identity“ takes a lot of work to shed. You just want others to know that you’re more than that and if you had the choice, that wouldn’t be part of your identity. It’s not something I chose, but I’m choosing to heal from it because that’s the part I can control.

It goes to the rah rah survivor crap you mention. I always talk about how I can’t stand when people refer to cancer patients as a “warriors.” we don’t battle cancer, we get treated for it, and the people for whom treatment doesn’t work are not “losing.” Same thing with trauma. One aspect of trauma, particularly long-term complex trauma, is a desperate desire to be understood, that we don’t want to feel different, that we didn’t put ourselves in a position where we have to go through a grueling process to heal ourselves from something we didn’t cause. That it’s not our fault even when we spend so much time blaming ourselves. So when another person sees us through the lens of trauma and relates to us accordingly, it can feel a bit minimizing, condescending, or simply that we are not understood as a whole person. It’s pointing out that “different” part of us, the part that made us smaller and scared and unsafe. It’s almost like they are deciding for us how we were impacted, that by shining a light on painful parts of our history, they are telling us they don’t see past that, or that anything we accomplish in life is colored by that, anything we struggle with in life is colored by that… When we all know that trauma contains layers that sometimes we haven’t even reached yet. And like I said, one of the ways that we can empower ourselves in our healing is by choosing who we let into those layers, the ones we’ve already tackled and the ones we’re just uncovering, and how much of that they get to see.

Oh, and to answer the question, once I completely figure out my conclusions, I don’t know that I will do anything with them except business as usual. I hope and don’t think it will come up again, but I’m not in a position to lose this job so I guess I will face it if it does happen and go from there…
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« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 08:47:51 AM by Nas »
“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#123: September 06, 2023, 07:27:44 PM
Every time I try to type the word vanisher, my phone changes it to banisher, which I realized is a little bit fitting since I feel like I’ve been exiled from my own being and have been making a long, harrowing journey back to self. 🤷‍♀️

Anyway I do have a quick vanisher story. I slept last night in a sleep lab, where they hooked me up to a whole bunch of wires and monitors to figure out what the hell is going on with my crippling insomnia.(I unfortunately did not even sleep long enough for them to get enough data.)

The sleep tech was a woman about my age. As she was hooking me up to about 7000 sensors, we got to chatting. She said the reason she trained to be a sleep tech was because years ago, she suffered from insomnia so bad she could not function. She said it was during a very stressful time, that her husband of 20 years had basically woken up one day, packed a suitcase and left. She was blindsided and devastated. She couldn’t sleep, and then when she did sleep, she was waking up feeling like she couldn’t breathe. She said she lived in hell for about two years before she finally went to the doctor, they sent her for a sleep study, she needed a job to keep herself busy and so she decided that she could train to be a sleep tech in a fairly short amount of time, and so now here she was, years later, hooking me up to 7000 sensors.

I did not tell her that I could sort of relate to her story. In fact, when she asked me if I was married, I simply said no. That’s how I answer that question more often than not these days. I asked her if she ever heard from her husband again. She said it’s been 8 years and he lives in their vacation house several states away. She’s never tried to see him. They are still married, he still deposits everything into their joint accounts, he’s never missed a mortgage payment, he still communicates with their financial planner and some things have been moved to solely her name. She has not seen or spoken to him since he left 8 years ago. She called him “the ghost who pays the mortgage.“

I asked if she misses him. She said, “I miss the ghost of him, but only because there’s no closure. If I saw him in the flesh, I don’t think I would miss him anymore. I don't think I'd think about him anymore if I just saw him one more time and had a conversation.” And that made a lot of sense to me.

The ghost of a vanisher lingers in a way that seems to almost taunt: “I’m always here in the farthest darkest corner.” That's a piece of what troubled me when the author brought up my husband's display of rage from years ago - it's never a good thing when the ghost of him pops up, and it's always when I least expect it. But if I’m being honest, I’m terrified of the day he shows up to divorce me. Not because I’m afraid of divorce. I’m afraid of how much worse he will make things for me - because he will. He can still hurt me in a number of ways, and that’s not just me giving him power, it’s a sad reality. And even if he has grown a conscience enough to not try to cause me any further damage, I know it will re-open a wound, no matter how much work I have done (and in terms of him, I feel very proud of the work I’ve done there. Emotionally, I let him go a long time. He can’t hurt me there, but he can cause damage in other ways.) In some sense though, it’s his ultimate abuse, like he’s out there somewhere holding a corner of the Band-Aid knowing he has the ability to rip it off as slowly and painfully as he wants, and I’m sure he loves that.  >:(

https://youtu.be/T1OlkjTluU0?si=tWwmldYXELuzmByA
People are good
Whisper it under your breath
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You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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#124: January 09, 2024, 09:32:10 AM
Hope this is ok to post, but ran across these articles I saved on escapism which I think is a huge factor in vanishers and wanted to share. One on thr unhealthy aspect vs healthy aspect

https://personalexcellence.co/blog/escapism/


https://abettermandotblog.wordpress.com/2023/07/26/would-you-rather-live-in-a-fairytale/
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2024, 09:53:43 AM by MadLuv »
There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife

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#125: February 24, 2024, 12:13:52 PM
Just a quick anecdote. I knew in the early days there was a woman my former husband would have preferred over the OW (because she had a lifestyle he preferred), and I also know that he cheated on OW with this other woman. This was in the very, very early days, before I really knew what was happening.

Today I was scrolling through my Twitter “for you” feed, looking at my usual clips of baby animals ( and my latest favorite Twitter account, which is called View Porn and just posts pictures of various gorgeous locations around the world). A post from a local newspaper popped up with a story and I instantly recognized the picture. It was this woman that my husband cheated on OW with, and apparently she’s all over the news everywhere for basically being an evil unhinged sociopath.

My reaction to this was almost as though I was recognizing people I had seen on a TV show in my youth or people I knew a long long time ago. It evoked no emotion really.
Except this: I suddenly had the realization that all of the women that my husband was involved with in any way, shape or form just before and after BD were so much like my mother, it’s almost shocking to think of and has me feeling some kind of way about it. I never really put it together before. It’s almost like he hated me so much, like he was seeing me through the eyes of my mother who also hated me so much. I need to mull this over (or maybe I don’t need to but I’m curious) because it’s such a weird realization. He was truly the only person in the world I had talked to about my mother, and yet he was drawn to women like her. I wonder what Freud would say…

🎶 https://youtu.be/ALfcpiLDwJc?si=IgBImJy6ZYNXf-SU
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#126: February 24, 2024, 04:42:57 PM
“Attachment constrains our vision so that we are not able to see things from a wider perspective.” Dalai Lama

Upon reflection, I’ve decided it’s just a coincidence, the type of women he was drawn to. Though I’m not attached to him anymore, I have to admit that, at times, I am still too attached to the idea of assigning an answer to “what happened.” I admit it’s something I had to work on and it still pops up. I just wanted to update this for newbies, because you will have reminders, even years down the road, and the unanswered questions might remain unanswered questions forever. But there will come a time when it will be a passing “hmm” and not a persistent “WTF…”
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#127: February 25, 2024, 02:24:12 AM
That makes sense to me, Nas.
I think the truthiest take is that very little of their crisis has anything to do with us, including their choice of ow/om. True too, I suspect, that there is an ow ‘tyoe’ and that this pool probably scores higher on some kinds of personality disorders bc, after all, what kind of people do what these folks do seemingly without much concern about the pain or damage they cause. Who seem to justify it or think it’s ok as a price of getting what they want at least. But whatever the MLC itch is that they feel so driven to scratch, it isn’t our itch, is it?

Good though that it only took you a short time to process that and look at it from a more detached pov. That’s the kind of thing that tells us we are not where we used to be, isn’t it?
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 02:25:37 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

N

Nas

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#128: February 25, 2024, 05:57:27 AM
I’m sitting here reading the Sunday news and the story about this woman has exploded even more. It’s wild. She is the kind of truly terrible person that scares the hell out of me because they just seem to have no ability to control their emotions. I think it makes sense that I was drawn to him because of my childhood, and so it makes sense that he would be drawn to people who are like the people from my childhood. So in a small way, it’s another piece of my own puzzle leading to forgiving myself for choices I made throughout my earlier life that were based on what I knew, because all I knew was trauma. I’m turning 50 this year and I’ve been grappling with the irony of finally believing I deserve a healthy relationship now that it’s unlikely I’ll ever get to experience it because of my circumstances, which are largely the results of choices I made over decades of living a disassociated existence. I don’t need a relationship to feel complete, but I do think that it could be extremely affirming to engage in a healthy, mutually “conscious” connection. Even if it didn’t last, the experience would be beneficial, a kind of proof of concept for little Nas who couldn’t even conceive of being loved  even fleetingly.

Funny how this one time OW inspired this line of thinking, and now that I think of it, it wasn’t even because of her connection to my ex but more her resemblance to my mother. The more I work through the old trauma, the less my former husband factors in, even with all the terrible things he did.  The weeds of trauma grew and overtook too many decades of my life but now I’m pulling them out at the root so what’s left of my life can grow into something better (that’s a clumsy garden metaphor in honor of you, Treasur 😉).
Anyway, I stumbled across a little bit of the buried MLC crazy, it spurred some thinking, and now I move on…

🎶 https://youtu.be/ZkJwpYrcAko
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“The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you will be free.” ~Margaret Atwood

You can either be consumed or forged. It’s up to you; the fire doesn’t care either way.

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  • Posts: 12543
  • Gender: Female
Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#129: February 25, 2024, 08:16:41 AM
Fwiw I think I think about trauma like bindweed  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.


"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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