[MadLuv]

Songanddance- thank you for the update. You attachment to your house is exactly how I feel about mine. I don't need to leave. But feel it would be better. Still cant decide. I love your arrangement of meeting once a week. That actually would be amazing. I miss my XH friendship and hope st the very least someday to get to that point as well .

You have been through a lot and fought for your marriage and who knows what the future will bring. Seems with the EA’s he is still needing some growth and awareness. Maybe it will come, but your right with desperate females lurking that will enable it makes recovery difficult.

[Songanddance]

Moving date is ever closer now and the house is slowly being packed away.

H and I take our dog for a walk together in the evenings; it's a lovely place where she can run free and play.  It was H's solace when he was recovering from his stroke and he could walk a little. It has now become a place where he and I talk really freely and openly and honestly. 

As stated above, I believe  H has an EA.  it's his business associate and I am fairly confident (as are other people who know her) that it's one sided. However it doesn't stop her from being a fixer, rescuer etc of the highest order and worming her way into his thoughts. She is not whole either.

I became so sick of hearing (false name given here) "Z says this and Z says that" or if I make a comment " Z thinks that too" etc...... The phone calls have become increasingly private and he walks away; why would he do that if it were just business ( a business I have supported him in for 33 years) ? And I'm triggered.  I shouldn't be because I am the one who has asked for the separation but I am.

So a few days ago we went for the walk and he mentioned "Z" again.  I paused and said very quietly " Are you aware how much you mention Z and therefore how much she clearly pre-occupies your thoughts? "
He was surprised and started to become defensive - that was a red flag in itself.  At first he just said " sorry " as if it was a debate. I replied that it wasn't an apology from someone who spoke in the tone he used and neither did it show any understanding of the hurt I was feeling. 

I continued and told him that she had over stepped boundaries especially when he was critically ill with his stroke (and we didn't know if he would live). 
I told him that, the day after his stroke, I had phoned her to tell her that naturally he wouldn't be working for a while and that I would keep her updated so that she could make some business decisions.  I asked her to tell no-one other than use the standard "he's out of the office response".  Four hours later, I get calls from his two best friends, another good long standing friend asking about his stroke.  I was furious and texted her stating that it was not her place to have called these people because I was the wife and as next of kin those decisions were mine.  She too became very defensive and that too was a red flag.
H's stroke happened during the second lockdown. No one could visit H in hospital so he was ringing people.
I told H that she has begged me to allow him to phone her because she didn't want to lose his trust as she had gained his confidence.  I explained to him how inappropriate it was the number of times he and she had been on the phone whereas I might get a brief call at 9pm just to update me on his day. He asked how I knew and I said "Z told me!  and that she would often text me about how much he had called her but wouldn't disclose what had been discussed"  That shocked him too.

I told him I was triggered because his behaviour with Z was almost identical to his behaviour with OW all those years ago.  That stopped him in his tracks - then I knew I'd woken him up. He started to listen as I pushed forward with my reasoning that the boundaries were blurred, that both of their behaviours were inappropriate at times, the constant messaging (especially in the evening) and the need to walk away when she was on the phone were all bang out of order. 

I said " I appreciate how hard she has worked to keep the business going but at times it's almost as if you're married to her (that's how much you talk about her and her life and family) and so this is also one of the reasons why we have to separate. If you cannot sustain appropriate boundaries and divisions of behaviour then I don't want to be part of it  "

He became very contrite and apologised much more effectively.

NOW I must  make it clear though that what I said might have seemed controlling and I can totally accept that because I am a bit of a control freak.  It is perfectly possible for friends to work together and to become close and to share information about families etc but there is a fine line of what is appropriate and what is not. In my view H and Z have breached all of those boundaries.

I asked him to just bite his tongue every time he felt compelled to mention her name and to take note how often that happened and then to pause and consider how appropriate it was to bring her name into our discussion especially if it was about our family, finances or us.  And he was also not to discuss any of those aspects with her.

Whether it will work is debatable but I had my say and it felt good.

[Treasur]

I’m glad you felt able to speak your mind, Song.

NOW I must  make it clear though that what I said might have seemed controlling and I can totally accept that because I am a bit of a control freak.  It is perfectly possible for friends to work together and to become close and to share information about families etc but there is a fine line of what is appropriate and what is not. In my view H and Z have breached all of those boundaries.

Fwiw, no, didn’t seem controlling at all. Seemed entirely reasonable to me that you have a problem with Z getting a voice in your life and that of your family and friends and finances, uninvited by you. And that you are not much interested in her opinion or interested in discussing it. Fwiw too, from the cheap seats, I heard red flag noises when you first mentioned her and that her/his behaviour was not normal or appropriate....ha ha it might just be you and me, but I thought it might help to know that it isn’t in your imagination or unreasonable.  Your PoV may change of course when you are living separately....you may just care less or have much fewer conversations with him.....but please know that Z and him have crossed more boundaries imho than an Olympic Gold Medal Boundary Crossing Team  They may not care much about your opinion, of course, but you are entitled to speak it anyway!

[marvin4242]

I have been following along on your thread and only wanted to second what Treasur said. It didn't sound controlling to me from afar either, rather a very clear statement of facts, observations, needs and boundaries. And from here it sounds you don't have much if any expectation that it will change anything, which is great. But I for one believe when someone like your H is in a place where they can actually hear what is said we owe them clarity and truth. This is SO different than "truth darts" or passive aggressive controlling statements trying to make ourselves safer.

For his own sake I hope he really heard what you said.

[MadLuv]

Soundanddance- I also thought your conversation was perfectly valid and not controlling. I went through this with a one side EA my husband had. His traveling companion/co-worker. She called herself his work wife. He became obsessed. I told him conversation, sharing etc. all took away from time and conversations and energy from our relationship.

I did have the fortunate ability to talk with her. She knew he was not himself and “she thought “ she was helping him. What’s crazy is he now lives with someone else. A 4th OW, but his work relationship with the unreciprocated EA OW is back on friendly terms. I think once boundaries are crossed they should never go past work convos again. The EA OW was getting something out of it. She liked being in the know of things and thats a slippery slope for both.

You H has to accept and realize this is not appropriate. If he doesn’t you are correct in realizing yourself that the behavior will continue with her or someone else as he is still looking for outside sources and no marriage can be a marriage of 3 .

[xyzcf]

I did not think what you said was controlling at all and I am very happy that you are able to say things to him and that he actually listens.

Good luck with the move Song!

[forthetrees]

Been following along. If it is a one-sided EA, then does that make her one those OW who are in it to "win" some sort of game?
I hope that her influence has and will have no bearing on the family finances in the near and long term. Seems highly likely that once you are in your own space, your energy will not be siphoned off in this way and you´ll be able to build yourself a rather comforting and nurturing existence and ... thrive. I get that his sudden severe illness caused you to suddenly be in a different emotional and supportive place. Now that he´s back on his feet and continuing to invest his energy in this woman, you are not obligated to be his Florence Nightengale champion. It will be freeing to be in the headspace of, "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

[Slow Fade]

Songanddance;

Sorry about the situation, but I get it. Even though H and I are reconnected and moving forward, there is a place in my mind that wonders what would have happened had we gone through a separation. (Other than him moving out during his OW phase  )  Working through this is very, very hard and exhausting. Even now.....

As for your son, mine is going through the same thing. He was 8 when H started taking him on their "dates" (and this was before BD), introducing him to ow and her child and telling him to keep it a secret from me for over a year. Now S19, has PTSD symptoms, anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideations. The thought of getting a job sends him into a panic attack and an almost fetal position. Its frightening to watch, not to mention heartbreaking. The damage MLC does to a family and to a spouse can be irreparable. Trust, respect, safety.....all of these are destroyed by their selfish actions.

((hugs))Thank you for listening!

[barbiedoll]

As for your son, mine is going through the same thing. He was 8 when H started taking him on their "dates" (and this was before BD), introducing him to ow and her child and telling him to keep it a secret from me for over a year. Now S19, has PTSD symptoms, anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideations. The thought of getting a job sends him into a panic attack and an almost fetal position. Its frightening to watch, not to mention heartbreaking. The damage MLC does to a family and to a spouse can be irreparable. Trust, respect, safety.....all of these are destroyed by their selfish actions.

.

This is just so hard to read..just heartbreaking honest to god.  To take a boy of 8 an have him to have secrets from his mother...? I cannot believe anyone would see that as OK. I know that Song's son struggles at times as well and it really must be extremely difficult to reconnect ( or whatever phrase) when the damage in our children is still present and it was H that created it. Thats hard.  My girls were much older but my youngest ( who was at home ) absolutely has signs of PTSD . I have spoken to her many times about it and she does understand some of the triggers and her reactions...I know because I see it in her. It has helped to talk about it and connect the dots into her awareness . Many hours we have worked  thru this.  I am "hoping" she is ok and nothing rears its head later in her life.  She is a 3rd year PHD student, works as a ft teacher at a private school and I have NEVER seen her drink or do drugs.  But she absolutely has some big ouchies in there....just have to keep her talking has been my approach. Unforgivable repercussions.

[Slow Fade]

Unforgivable repercussions.

Yes, this is what is hard even now. H wants to just "move on". His attitude is "Its all in the past and we are good now." Um, no, we aren't "good". We are still healing.