[Songanddance]

A wallower won't even realise the door is open as they are so shut off in their own worlds.

Song this is an interesting comment.  Does that mean LBS needs to be more explicit about the door being left ajar with wallowers?

I think you've missed the point WHY.  An LBSer never needs to state that the door is open to any MLCer - just decide that for yourself and that it stays open today or tomorrow or till whenever and leave the MLCer to it.

No explicit explanation required - just leave them to it regardless of what kind of MLCer you have.

[xyzcf]

Does that mean LBS needs to be more explicit about the door being left ajar with wallowers?

Identifying an MLC "type" if indeed the person who left is actually having a MLC and determining what different things to do for the various types is watching the person under a microscope and hoping that some intervention will turn them around.

I totally agree with Song..sharing anything with the MLCer is unnecessary....they left, we decide how we want to live our lives but telling them anything about that may backfire as it can be seen as "pressure"....

We get on with our lives. If we think that someday we would accept them back that is our own choice. The thing is, if the MLCer wants to come back, they get through their tunnel, they "return" often still broken but at least they have some idea of what they might want again, it won't really matter what type they are....but I do strongly believe that this return must come from within them.

Actually (and I don't know this to be true but I think people like to believe it to be so...remembering that MLC is not about the marriage) many people think that they are more likely to return if they truly think they have lost you. So opposite of what you are suggesting.

I don't think it matters. The only thing that matters is healing of one's self, regardless of the outcome. To do that, and many here have stated it, you take all the focus off the MLCer and concentrate on building a life as a single person, however that might look to you.

That might still mean that you have contact with them...but that contact is often very superficial and meaningless..because unless the crisis is somehow resolved (and no one knows how this happens) they are truly not engaged in any meaningful relationship with you.

[Thunder]

Song is so right!

A wallower seems to completely shut down emotionally.
They just wallow in their misery.

You won't reach them no matter what you say, or what you do.

All you can do is leave them alone and live your life "as if" they are not coming back.
If they do it will be a nice surprise, but you haven't wasted years waiting around.
At that point you may even find you no longer want them back because you have created a good, happy life without them.
That's the chance they take.

[Songanddance]

That's the chance they take.

Spot on Thunder.   Exactly.  The MLCer took a chance on the marriage by walking away from it (or running as in many cases).

The chance of them choosing to return is still unquantifiable but the chance of a reconciliation is actually up to the LBSer.

The LBSer is always in a much better position when it comes to the latter part of the crisis.  The LBser has options - the MLCer has none - they gambled with people's lives, hopes, dreams and love and as we know there are always 100+ times more losers than winners in gambling. 
The LBS's options are :
1. Wait around and hope for the best - stage watching the MLCer
2. Stand for the marriage and get on with own life
3. Stand -even if divorced for specific reasons either within or beyond control
4. Always consider the option to drop the stand
5. Choose to divorce for greater reasons than above
6. Divorce and have no contact with the MLCer (often no choice if it's a vanisher)
7. Grow and develop your own well being and mindset so that regardless of what the MLCer does now or in the future - the LBSer is free to make the decisions whether to reconnect, reconcile or not.

Looking back my first option was #1 then it became #2 once I realised that I was wrapped up in stage watching.  Then after 2 yrs or so - 7 and it still is 7.  I know that I am free to choose my life and my MLCer, (if I decide I want back in and TBH I don't just yet) will  just have to do the hard work.
He took a chance and now he's paying the consequences and he's increasingly aware of it.

[UrsaMajor]

[Songanddance]

Morning all - Just to acknowledge that 10 yrs ago 31st March 2013 - my life then took a turn that was so unexpected, so traumatic I never thought I would recover or live the life I had expected to live.  H Bd'd me with ILYBINILWY and OW.

And it's true. I'm not living the life I thought I would lead. I had just turned a new decade and was looking forward to all children leaving the nest and becoming what they wanted to be.  I had high hopes and expectations that H and I would continue to "thrive" and in ten years or so - really enjoy each other's company in retirement.

How wrong I was.   

And Yet I am grateful yes GRATEFUL for all that has happened.  Yes I went through trauma, Yes I needed and received therapy. Yes my S turned to drugs and Yes My work life took such a tumble that I was bullied into early retirement.  But you know what - I wouldn't be where I am now if none of that had happened.
So here's my reasons why I am grateful:

*  I own my own home
*  I am a grandmother to a wonderful little girl who I adore and have a close relationship with
*  I have three amazing adult children and my S would have probably gone down the route he took when he went to uni (let's be honest about the reality).
*  I have a career post retirement that I would never have thought possible.
* I am reconnecting with friends old and new
* I am continuing to work on myself, my mindset and my self worth and self talk
*  I have a husband who has had a major crisis (2 If you count his stroke) and who is learning that grass is not always greener the other side of the fence and that actions have consequences.  So he too is learning
* I am living my life for me - nobody else

 NOTE - In owning my own home I am painfully aware that in this case and unlike many of the LBsers on here I was lucky. But luck stands for Labouring Under Correct Knowledge  and so I worked hard, made sure I was on all the deeds, paid my way so that in the end I was fairly given my share of the house when we sold.

However the rest of my gratitude is nothing new and accessible to all.  Being an LBS sucks!  The first few months or years are incredibly hard.  And yet we survive. And yet we can Thrive.  And yet we become who we become.

I never thought I'd still be on this forum a decade after BD and the reason I pop on from time to time is to give you hope and a belief that all will be ok.

My therapist asked me at the beginning "What did I want"   
I said " To be ok"   
Her reply " If Ok were on a scale of 1 - 10 - where are you now?" 
My reply " 3"
"Where do you want to be?"
" 7  I guess."
And the work started.  10 months later she asked " Where are you now?" 
"6 maybe 7"

And so it grew - 10 yrs on from BD I am now "20 out of 10" on the OK scale. 

Life will always challenge you, it doesn't mean that you can't overcome them. Sometimes it will break you but it doesn't mean that you can't be repaired as good as new.

So where are you on the OK scale?  Where do you want to be?  What can you do to get there?

My advice - read lots of PMA self books, get out into life as often as you can, get a reality check from time to time and appreciate yourself with good self talk, develop your self worth.

Finally the best book I have ever read about mindset and it unwittingly explains the MLC behaviour of our spouses is "The Chimp Paradox"     

So everyone take a breath, tell yourself you are ok, and live life regardless of its challenges.

[barbiedoll]

Well Song , I never thought I would still be hear a decade later either. Almost impossible to believe. My BD was also in March of 2013 and absolutely nothing has ever been the same . Not one thing.  How much power we unwittingly give to people we love and we believe love us ....that in a few words our life is changed in ways we never imagined.  I can say I never really got me "happy ending " either even though my H returned.  In my heart of hearts I believe I likely should not have attempted to reconcile , at least not as quickly as it happened . But hindsight means nothing at this moment. My H ( as you likely know) came from deep childhood trauma and it is my opinion that he will never truly fully heal from those profound wounds.  I could write an entire book about life with a spouse that was abused in childhood and it is not pretty.  One of the most interesting things that a therapist told me was " if you are wounded inside of a relationship , than your healing must happen within a relationship".  I never really understood that but now I do.  My H was profoundly hurt in every relationship from infancy on, all the relationship that are meant to make you feel the most safe. He will not be able to rise above those woundings and scars to form a close intimate relationship with me.  Of that I am positive and I do believe I have fully accepted that fact. He will live as an avoidant, emotionally underdeveloped, fearful of intimacy and an island for ever. I no longer pursue or expect change whatsoever. But the hope of "change" is what inspired me to attempt to rebuild... alas, no truly happy ending here either.  But I can surely identify with many of the things on your "grateful " list.  I am in the midst of change internally, growing and evolving into who I want to be ..for ME.  Not so much for my marriage. I think I like that a lot .

[Songanddance]

I'm not living the life I thought I would lead.

I realise that when I wrote the above quote, I might have intimated that I am "unhappy" with the life I am now leading.  The exact opposite is the case. 
I think I have been working on and  beginning to live my best life.

I can say I never really got me "happy ending " either

Is having a happy reconciled marriage a "happy ending" ?  I don't know so much now. 

I am reading Chimp Paradox again ( it's unbelievably accessible in its information). The author -Professor Steve Peters talks about our values, our truths and our mindsets.

In the section The stone of Life (which is the mindset we all carry with us) he breaks it down into the Truths of life.
The Truths of Life are how you believe the world works.  He uses the maxim "Life should be fair" as an example

He said that if this becomes our truth of life we are less able emotionally, psychologically, mentally and physically less able to deal with situations that are "unfair".   We are so fed the concept of the "happy ever after" syndrome that traditional disney style fairy tales give us that it is easy to become conditioned to thinking that life should be fair to all.  But in truth it simply isn't. If it were true - there would be no wars, no poverty etc...
So his argument on this is that if you adopt the truth such as "Life isn't fair"  you are more conditioned to accepting that stuff happens and its how we respond to it that matters.

He talks about values and how they are the foundation of our moral and ethical principles that we abide by and yet they are ours alone. We cannot impose those upon others.

He then poses this brilliant question - What is your Life force?  "Imagine that you are 100yrs old and on your death bed. Your great great grandchild asks " Before you leave us - what should I do with my life"

Your answer to your GGGchild is your life force. 

I'm going to share mine because it took me a couple of days to really establish what mattered to me above all else....

"Live each day to the full. Understand life will not always go your way and when it doesn't, take time to see if and how you can adapt and if you can't, move on.  Believe that when one door closes, another will open. Be kind to others and yourself. Believe in yourself, explore your opportunities that may well come at the oddest times. Practise gratitude daily. Be true to who you are and be prepared to grow and learn because when the student's ready the teacher will appear. Finally - treat others as you wish to be treated and value who you are, what you stand for and what you can show others even when things frustrate or anger you.  Life will only ever hand back to you what you can handle at that moment so grasp it with both hands. "

I am in the midst of change internally, growing and evolving into who I want to be ..for ME.  Not so much for my marriage. I think I like that a lot.

And Barbie - this gives me so much joy for you!

[Evermore]

I never thought I'd still be on this forum a decade after BD and the reason I pop on from time to time is to give you hope and a belief that all will be ok.

I’m so glad you do pop in Song! You have definitely been one of the shining lights that’s given me hope for that bright future. I’ve always known that I was going to be ok. I know a bit about myself (not everything that’s for sure and I do regularly surprise myself!  ) and I have always rebounded well. But to get ‘proof’ that I wasn’t crazy to feel that way (when at the time I was so profoundly wounded), is invaluable. I thank you (and the other similarly ‘far ahead’ vets) sincerely for continuing to post here.

(I’m going to go and google that book now)

[OffRoad]

Re: life force. I really enjoyed your life force, Song, and it brings to mind, would that have been EXACTLY what you would have said prior to BD? Or might there have been something about love and marriage and having a soul mate?  Not that there would have been anything wrong with that, but I know for myself that after BD I learned a lot of things I saw as being "true" were not true.

It seems to me that a person's Life Force can morph throughout their life. I often wonder if BD and everything that followed wasn't some kind of Life Force course correction, in my case anyway.