[marvin4242]

If they don’t heal.  Do they remain depressed for the rest of their lives?

You are getting excellent feedback from everyone here. I just wanted to jump in and say in my opinion it is not a simple depression. Depression is a side effect of the more fundamental internal fracture that happens in what we generally call "MLC." As strange as it sounds depression is just a symptom of something much more profound.

They can try to address the depression by activity, affairs, thrill seeking, spending money etc. They may just wallow in it. I believe even if you had a magic "solution" and fixed the depression you will fundamentally change nothing. The core components that have fractured, things we see outwardly as depression, anxiety, anger, acting out, wallowing are still there. Ones who never get to healing the core trauma will just shift from one combination of these states to another (like my wife, she can be depressed, she can be angry, she can be in replay, and on rare occasions she almost is like who she was). But it doesn't mean she is "baking" or "healing." It just means we are seeing a different facet of the kaleidoscope that is their internal state.

[WHY]

If they don’t heal.  Do they remain depressed for the rest of their lives?

You are getting excellent feedback from everyone here. I just wanted to jump in and say in my opinion it is not a simple depression. Depression is a side effect of the more fundamental internal fracture that happens in what we generally call "MLC." As strange as it sounds depression is just a symptom of something much more profound.

They can try to address the depression by activity, affairs, thrill seeking, spending money etc. They may just wallow in it. I believe even if you had a magic "solution" and fixed the depression you will fundamentally change nothing. The core components that have fractured, things we see outwardly as depression, anxiety, anger, acting out, wallowing are still there. Ones who never get to healing the core trauma will just shift from one combination of these states to another (like my wife, she can be depressed, she can be angry, she can be in replay, and on rare occasions she almost is like who she was). But it doesn't mean she is "baking" or "healing." It just means we are seeing a different facet of the kaleidoscope that is their internal state.

Excellent point.  Although, there are some MLCers who have recovered, yet still do not know what their internal trauma was.  Seems like opinions are divided on the root cause.  A lot say childhood trauma that they deal with and heal.  Others say they have no idea and still heal.

What does this then mean?  Their healing isnt directly related to dealing with their childhood trauma, but something else?

[Treasur]

Reinventing - thanks for reading the study.   I couldn’t make sense of it on my phone ha.  Good to know the background.

T - appreciate your candid comments.  As for what I’m seeking?  To answer the question of whether it makes sense to remain married or not.

Not sure we understand enough about the details of your current situation, Why, to translate general to specific in how we respond to some of your questions? Which maybe doesn’t matter so much bc in the end that decision rests on a whole bunch of individual priorities and perspectives, doesn’t it?

Fwiw I think it’s worth considering how ‘sustainable’ you can make it if you choose to stand....anecdotally those who stand with any degree of success seem to be able to create an independently sufficiently solid financial, emotional and practical way of living that it can’t be thrown off track completely by their MLC spouse. And of course not everyone is in a situation where they can do that. Or indeed are free to make that choice. Don’t know what your situation is and the details may matter in that judgement.

If your standing is contingent on some more certain MLC timescale, or indeed a guarantee that your spouse is in MLC and will come out of it in a couple of years, i’m not sure that any answer here can give you that certainty. Based on anecdotal evidence if I were a betting woman, most marriages will not survive this kind of unravelling by a spouse for a variety of reasons and the uncertainty of it is hard to navigate.  My take fwiw is to do what you believe is best for you and any children you have based on the information currently available to you and choose to keep a door open to your spouse after doing that if you wish to do so and for as long as it feels right to you to do so. Quite a lot of us here stood until we reached a point when it no longer felt appropriate to do so or until the scale of damage caused became unsustainable for a good healthy life, so no one here will judge you either way.

On a slightly separate note, how are you doing in yourself? I assume that you don’t want to share the specifics of your situation which is of course fine, but this kind of experience can take a toll on most of us particularly in the first year or so. How might we best support you as an LBS?

[Rollercoasterider]

However, I have seen RCR mention in her videos that if D takes place, that reconciliation is less likely.   I assume this is from evidence collected over the years.  And I’d love to understand this concept more as it seems to conflict with what I honestly believe would be a better approach.  Is there a way to tag RCR in this thread?

No there's not--though that would be a good feature to have. But as you can see, I'm here. You can also PM me and just be patient...the system typically sends me an email notification when I get PMs. It didn't used to do that and so I'm still skeptical as I did nothing to get it finally working, it just started working around a year ago or so! I've really just scanned through the thread. Basically the answers you've been given about data from Xyzcf and others are what I would offer as well. I'm just a one-person operation along with the mods and so I don't have the capacity for scientific research and data collection on the level I'd like.
Why is reconciliation lower after divorce?
It's only a guess, but for many divorce is likely a psychological barrier. There are, of course, the divorces that go through after a few years and Standers are less likely to continue Standing as time goes by.

You've referenced my videos, so that was actually my reason for posting. I wanted to make sure you know about the videos so you can either submit a question or watch as they may answer many of your questions.
I just stickied two new threads to the top--one about additional HS resources and another about my Membership, so I encourage you to go to the top of the Community Board and check out those posts for the information and links.

[WHY]

I’ve watched all your vids and they’re great.  Thanks RCR.

What would be interesting is to have a sticky with a table, say for 2022, with all the users that come here during that year, with columns for BD date, move out date, D date, energy type etc etc, and whatever else cloud be relevant.  And then easily view those tables say 5 years down the line.  And perhaps try reach the LBSs if no updates how been provided where things ended up.

That would give you an idea of how many LBSs came to the forum that year, how many disappeared, and perhaps a lot of good data on where they ended up.  And perhaps encourage users to update their data for the greater good.

This would be invaluable and there’s a PHD/Pulitzer in here somewhere, I just know it.  There’s not enough of a spotlight on this MLC tragedy.

[Rollercoasterider]

The platform does keep user statistics, but nothing specific to MLC, just user data--how many posts, time online...
What you're interested in is an MLC Survey. I had one--technically it's still out there. I stopped actively collecting because of BIG dreams for making it fancier--like the ability to resend every so many months, and some better features to go with questions. My survey was basic--not even calendars for inputting dates, people had to manually input and that meant there was always a confusion because some do month/date/year and others do date/month year! I said to write it out, but most didn't. And other little things like asking not to take survey until 12 months after Bomb--better able to know contact type. Better would be more frequent follow-ups for the first year, somewhat frequent for the next two and then every year or so thereafter. It's one of many dreams! the features I want (not counting follow-up features) cost quite a bit--as there are companies dedicated to quizzes and surveys.

[UrsaMajor]

Also, occasionally, depending on the LBS, before I relegate a thread to the archives (if a thread has had no interaction for a year, it is a candidate for archival), I'll PN the thread owner and ask how they are and if anything is new. If they don't answer/update their thread in a couple of weeks, then I archive it. I won't chase them but a gentle reminder that we are still here.  I do this mostly for LBS's that were active and have several posts. One-post wonders or those that never go beyond the first "page"  in posting, usually end up getting sent to the archives straight away.  Occasionally (not often) an LBS will respond or update their thread...

UM

[WHY]

Are there any resources that describe how a MLCer heals?

It’s easy for LBS to drop the rope, GAL,  not my problem etc.  But I wonder IF the time comes for the MLCer to heal.  If the LBS can play a bigger role in guiding them?   Like helping to highlight FOO issues etc?  If LBS had an understanding of the self work process.  Then maybe they can help?

I’m concerned about some MLCers never doing the self work and I’d be curious to understand which ones heal, and which ones don’t, and why. 

[UrsaMajor]

Are there any resources that describe how a MLCer heals?

It’s easy for LBS to drop the rope, GAL,  not my problem etc.  But I wonder IF the time comes for the MLCer to heal.  If the LBS can play a bigger role in guiding them?   Like helping to highlight FOO issues etc?  If LBS had an understanding of the self work process.  Then maybe they can help?

I’m concerned about some MLCers never doing the self work and I’d be curious to understand which ones heal, and which ones don’t, and why.

I am not sure that there is a "one size fits all" way that an MLC'er "heals."  Each MLC'er has there own issues that they have to deal with and each has their own ways of dealing with them (or not as the case may be).

You are correct in saying that some (perhaps lots or most?) MLC'ers do not do the self work that they need to do in order to "heal" because they see no issue with their behaviour or they simply can not/will not look at their actions in any sort of critical light. They feel they are justified in their actions and there is nothing wrong with them.

Those that DO heal have to deal with a great deal of shame and remorse. That is not something that people generally want to share with the world. It is hard for them to deal with those they have emotionally injured, let alone hang their dirty laundry out there for all to see.

More importantly though, learning how an MLC'er heals doesn't really do much to promote the healing of the LBS. Instead, it encourages "Stage Watching"  and moves the focus toward the Mid-Lifer and away from the LBS where it belongs because the LBS has ZERO control over what the MLC'er does. The LBS can only control what they do themselves for their own healing.

[Treasur]

UM’s post reminded me of an old joke when I was a baby management consultant….’how many consultants does it take to change a lightbulb? One….but the lightbulb has to have decided they really want to change!’

I would guess MLCers heal pretty much the same way any damaged human heals…by reaching a point when they desperately don’t want to stay as they are, by taking responsibility and agency for what they did and what they are going to do next which is different, by understanding any skewed thinking or beliefs that got them to a place they don’t like or want to be. We tend to believe that external consequences have a big effect but I’m not sure that’s entirely so. Or it is, but as a second order thing. First, the lightbulb really really wants to change bc it’s no longer ok to live where/as it is…..and one of the characteristics of MLC folks seems to be that they invest a lot in external fixes to avoid just that. No different imho from addicts or alcoholics or folks who repeat any toxic damaging patterns….probably not very different either from most LBS.

The key thing though is that if and when, and indeed how, it happens is an inside job entirely…..