[amazinglove]

I think as the 'LBS' or non-crisis spouse we suffer a lot of injustice, manipulation, gaslighting, deception and cruelty - to varying degrees. And for the most part I've done a really good job of handling it, if I do say so myself. But today was not my finest hour.

I was downstairs watching the Chelsea match and my H was outside vacuuming my car when his phone rang and his sister - younger sister- the silly, flighty one who is obsessed with shopping and her IG (despite being 38 years old)  called. I yelled out to him, your phone rang and he came back inside and called her. The first thing he said to her was "I'm with (my name)' and the conversation got really stilted. I then stood up and said hi and she looked absolutely stricken to see me - the way a child looks who has been caught with a hand in the cookie jar. She could barely speak to me and he took the phone to the garage and hung up ab 30 seconds later. I knew this bc he started up the vacuum again. So, what one could reasonably assume is that they did not speak, because I was at home. She is not someone he would call to confide in (the way I do my sister) so would have been something connected to his AP. He did not deny this later btw. I have no idea if they were together, or she was calling to discuss an upcoming trip to her or anything else, but it was connected to her. 

After some thought, I asked my husband, "your sister was so weird with me--where does she stand on all of this - is she my friend?" He knew what I was referencing bc his older sister has been supportive of our family. And he said, 'she's neutral' about you and the OW. NEUTRAL. because he said, she also cares for MY happiness.

I know, I know, don't expect anything from their families. But stupidly I guess, I felt hugely betrayed. Why? Because for years this sister had been estranged from the family (she ran off with a guy they didn't like and humiliated her family ab as much as you can imagine - invited all their relatives to her giant wedding apart from her immediate family who didn't know about it and was blindsided, put it all on FB etc etc) and I had lobbied on her behalf, to my husband for years. Even when she divorced a  year later they wouldn't talk to her, I kept saying, she's your sister! Once they reconciled, this SIL was in a car accident where she hit and killed a woman, a mother with 4 kids, who was illegally running across a freeway and my SIL was passing behind a truck and didn't see her. There were cameras and my SIL was found not at fault, but she had to pay a large amt in a civil case brought by the woman's family. Again, I encouraged my H to send her the money to help. I paid for her trip to the USA last summer etc etc etc.

The thing is, this new woman, she is v rich and she I guess can do more for her than I can. And that's what she sees now. It did not escape my attention that as soon as my H started going to Barcelona to stay in his AP's penthouse, this sister went out and got a visa for Europe.

And with my H, I can at least write this off to a MLC and that he's lost his mind and that he's crazy, but with her, with her it's a CALCULATED decision. Not based on emotion, or a depression - it's a calculated and cold choice to throw me, her 'sister' all these years, under the bus for someone more useful.

Anyway, here's the bad part. I fired off a whats' app to her and in a nutshell said that altho he told me she is neutral now, I had never been neutral to her, I had lobbied for her, and that altho her brother and I will end, and not because of her, but that in situations like these you see who your true friends are, and she is not mine. She is on the side of who can benefit her most. And I asked her, as much as possible when I'm over there with kids, to avoid me, as I don't want to pretend that we are still sisters."  I did not curse or anything, but still it was pretty strong and I should not have sent it. The thing is rationally, I was always going to lose my relationship with all of them anyway. And whether or not she accepts this new AP now, eventually they ALL WILL if they stay together, because he's their brother and son and they won't lose him.

It's not just losing my husband, my time is up in this family - all this despite the fact that I still have his name and we are still married. When we were talking about this btw, my H said to me, 'Where is all this coming from? you are never going to stop bringing this up! You will be triggered constantly, and even if I come back to you, you will constantly bring it up and constantly want to talk about it. Therefore, for the first time, I agree with you, we need to get divorced. I want my freedom from you.

He is STILL in a relationship and having an affair and he is living in this house and he is angry at me for not being over it and/or bringing it up. He has not apologized, he has not ended it, and he is blaming me for our inevitable divorce because I'm too easily triggered. I can rationally see this as a gross distortion and manipulation but at the time, when he said it, "for the first time I agree," it was so painful to for a second question if this is really my fault. The truth is, he made the decision to break up with me a long time ago. He just hasn't had the guts to do what needs to be done to really end it. I am still playing catch up.

If he suggests leaving early, I will encourage it. If I cannot bear another minute I will ask him to go. Unless this markedly improve in the next 24 hours I probably will.

In the meantime, I feel utterly and completely sad right now and am trying my best not to cry. I don't know how any of you live with your MLC spouse I really don't. You are better people than me!

[Reinventing]

...he is blaming me for our inevitable divorce because I'm too easily triggered. I can rationally see this as a gross distortion and manipulation

Yes, this is gaslighting you. He is the one having the affair. You are somehow expected to just go with the flow and not be upset. And he can't reconcile because you are upset.

That is not based on reality.

[Dragonfly33]

Amazing Im so sorry to hear about your situation now. It’s totally normal to feel betrayed from his family. That’s how I felt about my xh’s family too. You are not any less than any lbs here. You are just trying to do what you think is right in your situation right now and that’s what you’re capable of as of this moment. That’s what my therapist said when I started telling her I should have done this or that. You’re still very fresh in all this chaos. Once all the dusts have settled you will know what you want. My xh did the same thing with me. I’ve lived with him for two years after BD and after Ive found out he ran off with the AP. He continued to contact the AP in our house and I swallowed it all. Until one day I had enough and I decided to fight for myself. I know how painful it is to be in your situation right now, but as they said here focus on what you can control. You h is treating you that way because he knows he can. And one day when you have enough, you will know what to do and your h will regret it.

[Treasur]

 I am so very sorry.

Please forgive yourself for the unwise Whats App message. You know it was a reaction rather than a response, I know, and an act of casting pearls before swine. I’d bet there isn’t a single one of us here who has not done something similar at some stage, perhaps multiple somethings. You’re human and no animals or children were injured in the process 

I suspect once you calm yourself a little, you will be able to see that only some of your emotion was about that actual SiL….it was probably a whole mixture of feelings about a whole mixture of things. Unravelling, as you have mentioned, is a process that can leave us feeling a bit unravelled bc the tendrils of a long marriage often stretch beyond the marriage. And people show us who they are in difficult situations, don’t they? Which of course can be a big disappointment.

And your h’s reaction? Well that’s a pretty textbook version of ‘the problem isn’t what I’m doing, it’s your reaction to what I’m doing’. A lot of us here know it well. It’s a default for disordered adults and teenagers.

I don’t know how things are going now and if you have asked him to leave, but a couple of thoughts occurred to me reading your post. And I apologise in advance bc they might be a bit uncomfortable to contemplate.

I think you might have mentioned on someone else’s thread (apologies if it wasn’t you) that spending time with our spouses increases that sense of being drawn into their mad version of reality. The more time you spend with your h in your home, or doing some version of shared family time, the more exposed you are to these kind of events. Something to muse on perhaps.

I also get a flavour that you have been a cheerleader, facilitator and supportive purse for both him and his extended family for quite a while. Bc for instance when you talk about ‘us’ sending SiL money, practically speaking you most likely mean ‘you’ bc you earn most of the money. This sort of kindness can be a funny old thing…on the surface it looks like being nice, but it can also be a strange kind of power dynamic. Which in turn can breed expectations and resentment. You are quite right that things will change in the nature of your relationship with his wider family..that’s normal and, with a kind eye, it’s a change that everyone affected can struggle with and not always bring their best self to the party.  But I really do get the sense that you have perhaps been a wider family fixer for quite a while. Musing on why and what you get from doing that might be worth your time too, if only bc musing on it is part of transitioning towards a new normal. Musing on it might also help you consider the basis for your current choices made under the heading of ‘good for the kids/other people’ and where you are investing your money and energy.

I also note that your reaction was based on quite a lot of inferences from a small exchange, and that you are still placing weight on your h’s words about ‘neutral’. Why would you do that? He’s a liar and has the mentality of a 13 year old and he does not respect your needs or feelings. That may not have been the truth before, but it is the current reality. So, consider the source; I would not automatically believe anything an MLCer says until or unless I could confirm it independently. I’m not saying you are wrong in your assessment of the situation or indeed your SiL’s character - you know her - but I am saying you are still, perhaps accidentally, treating your h’s opinion with too much respect. After all, it suits his agenda if others ‘support his happiness’, right? As opposed to calling him out on his deceit, self indulgence, immaturity and discarding of his role as a father.

I have a feeling that you might need to dig deep into the issue of boundaries, my friend. As most of us do especially early on…and although it doubtless feels like a lifetime, you ARE early on in this. Boundaries are so much less about asking others to behave better than we think at first. And so much more about what WE DO when they don’t. I think you’re still asking people to treat you with respect and fairness and kindness. (Hug) Bc it’s bewildering when they don’t, isn’t it? (Hug)
But I think you need to stop asking, start informing if necessary and above all start DOING. So, for instance, if his phone rings, ignore it as not your business. He will have the minor inconvenience of a missed call but you’re not the family telephone operator. And you don’t ask SiL to stay out of your way in Turkey - assuming you still go ahead with your plan - you simply walk out of spaces she walks into and refuse to take part in collective family activities but just drop the kids off and leave. No asking, no justification, just doing. The same for your h being in your home - you agreed to it, you can change your mind if you’ve tried it and it now feels inappropriate. Again, don’t ask, don’t explain - it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain who isn’t an MLCer lol - tell him he’s no longer welcome. And if he refuses to leave, treat him like a bad smell, tell him you will seek legal advice to have him removed, that Turkey is cancelled and him refusing to go will leave you much less inclined to be generous-minded in how you facilitate anything beyond bare bones legally required visitation in future. Then go about your day. There’s a lot of truth in the old aphorism that we teach people how we will allow them to treat us. And that is what boundaries are - actions that say clearly what we find acceptable and not, and how things are going to adapt in a new  changed future. We don’t ask, we require…and of course accept that others might not agree or like it which is their right. With a kind but honest eye, what messages do you think your current choices and planned ones are sending about your real boundaries? Bc from here it looks like it might be a bit wife/SiL/DiL as normal when you are no longer, and not by your choice, living in that old normal?

However, I hope that today you have woken up feelin a bit less sad and a bit more kind towards yourself and what you need. This unravelling time is a hard, hard time but it will not last forever…there is a good life on the other side of it xxx

[Dragonfly33]

Whatever your h tells you now is background noise. Tune it out and do not believe a single word. Unless it’s about your children. Otherwise it’s all unnecessary noise.

[KayDee]

So sorry AL - I hope you are feeling a bit more centred by the time you read this. As I was reading your post, many thoughts and responses came to mind and most of these have all been addressed by Treasur and DF.  The only thing I can add is this - I think, when we are first pulled into this maelstrom, it is hard (near impossible) to reprogram our expectations. We spend so long in a relationship dynamic that we feel we know like the proverbial back of our hands, that when this gets upended, we are completely adrift. Many of us get unwittingly pulled into a drama triangle, believing we have more relevance than we do and perhaps end up creating more grist for the MLC affair AND drama. The old program still says that we are the most important person to the MLCr's, and we keep operating under that illusion. The reality is that the MLCr is the most important person in their life (not the OP, BTW). The sooner I understood that, the better. It's a really hard pill to swallow. The hope is that it will not always be this way, but we can only go on the present. This is who your H is now. The more drama you add, perversely, the more fuel he gets from his actions. This is in NO way a criticism of you. You have been wonderfully normal, passionate and optimistic. But, it's time to roll up your sleeves. You need a safe haven away from the madness, for you and your kids.

[UrsaMajor]

Yep, you sure are...... HE is having the affair but it is YOUR fault because you are triggered easily?

[Dragonfly33]

I totally agree with KD! You just hit the jackpot there. The sooner you accept that your MLC H doesn’t care about you anymore the faster you can get out of that drama. I remember I was staring at my then H thinking how did he end up being so selfish and so consumed with himself. I couldn’t believe for longest time that I was not important to him anymore. This is exactly what KD is saying, we are running the old program but that program is obsolete and had been infected with MLC virus. But like I said you will see reality in your own time. You will realize ypu don’t wanna be part of this $h!te show anymore.

[Treasur]

I like that metaphor of the old program infected by the MLC virus and made obsolete.

But gosh it takes longer than one might imagine to really get that in your bones. It’s easier for us to see bc we are not you but we were once you, or pretty similar. We were running on the old program too…until something shifts in you…and that’s a very personal thing…and then the old program starts to feel very odd. Like a favourite old dress that doesn’t quite fit as it used to do. Once you reach that point, things start to look rather different.

[amazinglove]

Update: ok so he's still here and has been, for the most part, on good behavior - pitching in, trying hard with kids, in a good mood etc. I have been on a knife's edge if I'm honest, but there have been genuine, warm moments between us too, which felt good. It was like remembering an old friend I loved but who is no longer in my life.
Hope is a funny thing. For some people they struggle to find it - for me, I struggle with the opposite. An eternal optimist, I struggle to let it go. It's not just about my H, it was about my father, it has been about lots of things I wanted in my life. I never give up on people.
His affair is ongoing and it's clear he is now looking ahead at his new life. We had guests over for a long planned BBQ on Sunday - a family we barely know - and the entire conversation turned to when our babies were little. And my H and I reminisced along with them, they were happy days and we were really united as parents - and it was incredbily painful. It felt so fraudulent too, us sitting there you would never, ever have guessed we had problems, let alone were planning a divorce. It hurt me but he seemed unaffected. He was slightly cold to me after - did not look me in the eye when he said goodnight, so maybe it got to him a tiny bit.
Today he told me I was welcome to tell his mom the truth - she had messaged me to see if I was ok - and so I did. Another way he is chickening out but to be honest, i wanted to. I can't write back 'all good here! all ok!" bc again, I can't do that. I did not reply to hers tho, I am not starting any dialogue or conversation. It was just a factual update as I will be seeing her in person in a few weeks and can't communicate nicely without google translate either.
People in this group have told me DO NOT BRING UP DIVORCE - it is HIS divorce etc etc. And yet I am gunning for it. I have really asked myself why I can't just let this play out and 'see who he picks' but the thing is, I can't live with myself. I can't live with myself if I accept this. I'm not judging anyone who does, everyone has to make their own call on this kind of thing - but knowing that there is one person in particular he loves and it's not me, one person he shares his day with and it's not me, one person he sleeps with and it's not me etc etc. and I am officially his 'wife' makes my heart want to stop.
I know a divorce decree won't take away this pain - and it will be even worse bc we have to tell our kids and deal with their emotional fall out - and it will be FINAL - and that will hurt enormously. But the fraudulent nature of this, the constant sting of rejection, watching him disappear to make a phone call, knowing I'm second choice and not what he wants, the state of limbo it feels like this is - it feels the harder cross to bear.
How can I still be this SAD? This has been going on since last October. I thought I was thru some of this pain, this is not new information. What's new is that now, he is sure, he wants it too.