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11
Our Community / This is getting tiring
« Latest by KayDee on April 25, 2024, 01:42:08 AM »
Wow, seems like you have turned a really important corner Lost. And in answer to  the 'why is he still here' question, I evoke my favourite MLC answer of 'who knows'? Keep the faith in you. You will see, more and more, you are the one holding all the good cards.
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Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by Ready2Transform on April 24, 2024, 07:05:38 PM »
Quote
if this had been in any way normal, and we had drifted apart I would have had time to adjust to the new reality and to act accordingly. But it really was like being thrown off a cliff when you didn't even know there was a cliff.

So why do I share this? Well maybe if in the early days we could force ourselves to simply accept what is said, that there is no "us," and actually you are now dealing with someone who has absolute ZERO care for you, or at least act that way even if we struggle with it, it may help us avoid more hurt and damage.

Another way of saying acceptance is a key, and that reality is what it is, not we want it to be.

FWIW, I feel this same way, BUT...you can't get there overnight. Just like it would have made more sense if we'd all drifted apart gradually as couples rather than being thrown into this traumatic event, we must gravitate toward acceptance in a way our brains can handle it. Healthy neural pathways are deliberately dug trenches, and it just takes the gift of time to get there. There's no way the very aware "me" of today could time travel back to 2011 and have a chance at all of convincing that earlier version of myself to let go before she was good and ready. And I'm glad for the lessons that it taught me that actually helped to get me here. The best we can do as those farther along the path is to present a good example of what's on the other side, once people are ready. And they will be. :)

In the earlier days, I did see my H as 'splitting' - I called his cold, perfunctory (email) self Mr Kit (as in Keep it Together) and then, there was the emotional him that I saw when we met in person.

I called my xH's new persona "Hoss" (he took on this uncharacteristic 'country'-fied bravado that well suited it). It helped immensely! It helped me stop analyzing whether the behaviors were normal or not. And it was funny. ;) A little dark humor went a long way (at least for me) to help start to take back my own life and not be so terrified all the time.
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Our Community / Let it go, for it was imperfect, and thank God that it can go
« Latest by Zion on April 24, 2024, 03:00:31 PM »
AL,

You sound good!  I really hope you Spring Break trip with the kiddos was refreshing and grounding.

someone on here once said that resentment is what pushes them off the ledge when it comes to betrayal and I would have to agree. It certainly seems to be the case for me. He is punishing me for his life not working out how he wanted it to and for not making everything ok for him professionally with the move.

I don't think you should take responsibility here.  Limerents are resentment building machines.  He is trying to justify himself.  It is his fault he didn't express this desire or dig his heals into to staying in London.  You are not a mind-reader.  He deferred to you and now he defers to AP.   He needs someone else to be whole... not your making. Amazing Love is a full developed and capable adult and I don't think you have time or energy to build scaffolding around him.  You already have children.

I have full confidence that you are strong enough to protect your children and your interests. 
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Our Community / Its not you, its me
« Latest by KayDee on April 24, 2024, 09:13:45 AM »
Ah yes, it is helpful (although weird when the dead send you emails about splitting assets 8) ) (sorry, dark humour). In the earlier days, I did see my H as 'splitting' - I called his cold, perfunctory (email) self Mr Kit (as in Keep it Together) and then, there was the emotional him that I saw when we met in person. That was another level of confusion. But as I haven't seen him in person for over 6 months, I mainly get Mr Kit.  I do draw parallels with aspects of Structural Disassociation (reading this theory made a lot of sense to me at the time. Now I am more circumspect). But, maybe this is where the 'dead' side is - in the part that had to be buried to keep going.
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Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by marvin4242 on April 24, 2024, 06:47:46 AM »
I do quite well, saying 'who knows' to most of my questions, but I still cannot match up my warm, loving husband with the cold stranger he has seemingly become. How do others reconcile this?

FWIW I completely get that. The "trick" I used is to think of my W as two people, the old W and the new W (I even referred to her in my head as the old (name) and new (name)). It seems simple but using this allowed me to separate the two incarnations that looked the same but were completely different. When I recall something or have a momentary pang to "share" something like I used to I direct to the "old W" incarnation. I believe its a little bit like holding the memory of someone who has died.
16
Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by KayDee on April 24, 2024, 06:30:37 AM »
What has been sitting with me is this: no friend or even acquaintance, or even a nice stranger, would EVER have done to me what she did, nor would have treated me as someone of such little value or worth nor cared so little about my well being.

Yes, which I suppose is quite instructive. In this way, it does kind of make it 'personal', like perhaps we are like an extension of the crisis person that needs to be amputated. Maybe a bad analogy, but the dynamics of this are extreme.

Your post is timely for me. I feel like I accepted very early that my H did not/could not care about me. I understood to have no expectations, and I feel that I accepted what had happened then too. What I still often struggle with is this complete volte face. That the person who cared so much about every aspect of one's life, suddenly becomes this cold stranger. I know it happened. I think, like you Marvin, I have a grasp of the whys, the psychology, but I still get hit with that bewildering feeling every now and again. I do quite well, saying 'who knows' to most of my questions, but I still cannot match up my warm, loving husband with the cold stranger he has seemingly become. How do others reconcile this?
17
Our Community / This is getting tiring
« Latest by Lostinthewoods on April 24, 2024, 05:45:00 AM »
Hi Everyone,
OK Journaling,  it has been week since we.had the talk and arguments.
I've gone completely dark. He asks questions ( very rarely) I just respond. I do not volunteer any conversation.
He is still here even though he is sure our relationship is over and that it will not work between us.
In the last conversation I had I was clear about what I wanted. I'm not compromising.
MLC has taught me not to run behind him. I've always been the pursuer.  Not anymore.
Iin the first 2 years after MLC I wanted him somehow. Now not so  much . I can live without him. In fact given the way he is behaving it would be better he was not here. I would.like.to think of it as some progress.
I wonder why he is here even though it is all over in his eyes? He is extremely sure because he cannot be transparent with me.
He told my son whenever he was transparent it came back to bite him.
I asked him to give me one valid example or scenario and he had none
He also said he had exited the marriage long back
Why is he here and irritating me?
18
Our Community / Re: Its not you, its me
« Latest by marvin4242 on April 24, 2024, 04:19:36 AM »
Hello everyone. I wanted to post a quick thought that has been sitting with me for some reason for a few days now that I think may be of interest. What I am about to say is rather obvious, and it is said a lot, so its not meant to be insightful in itself. Rather it is the fact that after many years I am finding yet another depth to it that further solidifies this idea.

I am sure like many of you did I knew my wife was my best friend. I had a good deal of trust in her in many ways, I knew I could share almost anything, I could rely on her and she would always "have my back." So the biggest loss to me was that I lost my best friend. I have realized this from the early days. I also realized that she treated me terribly, specially in the first couple of years (and now on rare occasions).

What has been sitting with me is this: no friend or even acquaintance, or even a nice stranger, would EVER have done to me what she did, nor would have treated me as someone of such little value or worth nor cared so little about my well being. I feel I understand very well why she did and what kind of disordered state she was in, but that is not important. It is more the deep realization of how out of sync my expectations were with the reality of the situation in the early days, and how much that caused my emotional and rational mind to struggle and twist itself around. Looking at it from a distance it is SO clear to me now. If she had not been hiding what was going on, if this had been in any way normal, and we had drifted apart I would have had time to adjust to the new reality and to act accordingly. But it really was like being thrown off a cliff when you didn't even know there was a cliff.

So why do I share this? Well maybe if in the early days we could force ourselves to simply accept what is said, that there is no "us," and actually you are now dealing with someone who has absolute ZERO care for you, or at least act that way even if we struggle with it, it may help us avoid more hurt and damage.

Another way of saying acceptance is a key, and that reality is what it is, not we want it to be.
19
Our Community / Let it go, for it was imperfect, and thank God that it can go
« Latest by Treasur on April 24, 2024, 02:58:09 AM »
All of us reading can hear the difference in your mindset and wellbeing, and we also know how much effort it takes to get to that first patch of flat solid ground. Literally amazing, love  :)

We also know that the path from here to next is a winding one. Perspectives change, priorities change, choices change. His perhaps, but more importantly yours.

So everything I’m about to say is in that context. And repeating my previous words about giving yourself time to tune in to your best path regardless of his.

Your post was a long list of his wants, wasn’t it? Which, put simply and much as you said, seem to be that he wants x and y and z while essentially keeping his family, and his role in it, in a box to be taken out periodically when he wants to play with it. I would take what he says at face value. This is what he currently wants and what his plan is to get. Of course, just bc he wants it does not mean he will get it, or indeed that you are obliged to provide it, but this is what he wants. It may or may not work out well for him, but this is what he wants. And apparently feels entitled to have. I would bet cash I don’t have that it simply never occurred to him to ask seriously what you want given the circumstances….am I right? I am not saying this to rant and rave about his rather disappointing character as an adult man, husband and parent…although we can if you want lol. I am saying it to encourage you to be clear-eyed about it, about essentially his ‘proposal’. And how much of it is about his wants and how little of it is about yours or your childrens’ wants or needs.

- He does not want kids educated over there and wants them to stay in their school over here
- he is planning to live in Turkey 6 months a year near his sisters and parents and I reckon the other 6 he will spend a fair amt of that with his AP in Barcelona or Moscow and some of it with his children.
- He literally wants to just do his 12 hours of client zooms a week and wait until he can start collecting his pension and retire in Turkey in 10 years….As of now, he  plans to never work more than that again.
- and also that we will stay a loving family and also at the same time break up.
- He doesn't want to move his things out of this home or for me to move my things out of our bedroom over there.
- He wants half this house (which is legally his) but wants to put it into the next home that I live in with the kids and wants his name on it too - with the provision that everything we own goes to our kids.
- He does not want to divide anything.

As for now, he said to me, "i am a cheater, I am a liar and for the first time in my life, I am selfish.'

There can be great power sometimes in reaching a point where one can calmly accept that what looks like a duck is, in fact, a duck. But also that one is not obliged to invite the duck to sit on your future sofa. Or build a future duck house to their design for seasonal migrations.  :)

While you carry on with your current plans over the next few weeks, I’d encourage you to take some time to reflect on what some of the terminology means to you in practice, short-term and longer term. And how that might lead you towards what you want regardless of what your h wants bc you now have the information about how he currently sees these things. But that may not be how you see them, and it’s ok if it isn’t. Bc that’s how real life works between adults, isn’t it?

Break up. Separation. Divorce. Co-parenting. Family. House. Home. Limbo. Friends. Cordial. Kind. Helping. Pitching in.

On a very simple level, I can see some significant disadvantages for you in a future life where a ‘virtual husband’ metaphorically - or really - still keeps his boxer shorts in your drawers and his name on the deeds. Or how one practically coparents with an absent figure who lives in another country. But my opinion doesn’t matter….giving yourself the time to reach yours does.

Linking back to my point about things changing though, I would also encourage you to see this as a kind of three body problem; the essence of that is the effect of a third (or more) unknown forces at play on events. Ow’s agenda, how his work/life plans play out financially, your unknown future opportunities and choices….just a few that spring out to me. And how that makes predicting a bit unpredictable. And perhaps why unhooking what you can from those events is worth reflecting on as an act of self protection. The risk I suppose is that, based on your h’s current wants, you could literally be gambling the roof over your head on events beyond your control and when you already have experienced your wants being seemingly irrelevant to others. Jmo, but I’d need to have a bloody big overpowering benefit to outweigh that risk having survived it once. jmo though  :)

I have no doubt that you will be just fine once the detritus of this major life event shakes out. That might take a little time yet, but it is clear to see from reading here bc of the kind of human you are. In fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may even find life a bit easier bc you may come to decide that your h was/is enough of a man child that used quite a lot of your energy that can be joyfully invested elsewhere. But this bit is exhausting, that’s true, and you need a little bit of time to figure out what YOU want in the circumstances that have shown up in your life. Quite possible that your h won’t much like some of your conclusions, but that doesn’t really matter now….whats he going to do, leave you?

From the cheap seats over here, it looks as if your h’s current life plans are based on three sets of people doing what he needs to get what he wants the way he wants it…his own family as an unquestioning base, ow financing the fun, and you and the kids leaving a pop up chair at your table when he wants a daddy/family fix. Like a three-legged stool, things are likely to get tricky if even one leg of the stool stops playing their part. As my much-loved uncle said about my own xh as things got really bonkers,  ‘I’m not sure he’s really thought this through, has he?’  :)

So, take your time. Gather the information you need. Don’t let the pressure of needing answers - or him wanting you to agree to particular things - force you into hunting them down…..let your own picture of what your own ‘what next’ needs to look like show up. Bc you have good instincts, and it will show up if you let yourself listen to it.
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A GIF is worth 1000 words.....



Just replace "Lunatic" with "Limerent"

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