[Baxter1]

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12106.0

My third thread, here’s a link to part 2.

W still at home, going on 8 months now. We’re still cordial and coparent quite well, if it wasn’t for her trying to kick me out of the house this might make this a little easier to handle! We tied MC, that lasted about 2 sessions and the MC said she couldn’t help us. That sounds about right seeing that this is an MLC issue and not a marriage issue. Just finished reading hearts blessings, great read, it explained a lot and is giving me the attitude of grace and empathy. Feeling pretty detached, every day I realize that this is something that she didn’t ask for. That being said it’s making detachment easier since I see that the shadow is in the drivers seat at times she is just a passenger along for the ride(so to speak). From what she has said I think she realizes that this is an issue within herself, I wish I could help but she’s got to do this alone, the journey continues…

[Ichoosefaith]

I am so happy to hear you’re finding peace with it. I am trying myself and I know these things from the threads here and shocksis words.

I just still feel as her best friend and husband for so long I have to help. And I can’t. And she is ruining her life and pushing me further and further away and I’m scared when she wakes up I won’t be there. Because at some point there are consequences. Like I can’t allow her to just decide anytime she is bored that she wants to go be free and start talking to dozens of men and seeking attention emotionally or physically elsewhere. I want to believe this is all part of the crisis. But it doesn’t change that feeling that if she wakes up and comes back am I going to always be waiting for her to do it again? And I can’t live like that.

I wish you good luck Baxter and I’m always here bud. We have been in this journey pretty closely together. Also for anyone who wants I’m adding a link to my Facebook. I have found I’ve been checking this less but don’t want to lose touch.

https://www.facebook.com/masonseason2?mibextid=LQQJ4d

[Baxter1]

Same back to you ICF,
ShockSis and Hearts Blessings have been great reads, they really helped me get in a place where I understand WTF is going on. It is very difficult to see them go out and do things that a normal
Spouse wouldn’t do. I keep on thinking that she is under the control of the monster, regular W would never do half the stuff she has been doing. That being said I’m working on setting boundaries and trying to give space, i think as LBS that’s all we can do.
See you on FB

[Baxter1]

Hmm,
Got an email from W saying we need to separate. She has felt this way for a while
And she wants me to either
A- Move out, she will sign a paper that says I still have rights to the house (if such a paper exists?)
B-Go to mediation, which my understanding is a friendly divorce, I still feel the house will be lost in this
Scenario
C-Divorce, we lose it all

I will do nothing and see what happens but I just wanted to get some
Other opinions. I won’t respond to the email.
She said this is a long time coming and she’s felt this way for a long time.
Other than call a lawyer which I already have what would you recommend?

[Reinventing]

Seeing a lawyer is the best thing you can do. Also, you haven't moved out after many requests, which is also a best thing that you've done.

Being prepared (lawyer) and staying in the house is the most you can do now.

Not that this is easy, but you're doing all you can do.

[Treasur]

My first thought - which I am assuming is what you meant by call a lawyer - is to take very specific guidance from your lawyer on the pros and likely cons of these 3 options and your interests. Most likely, bc there is no win-win in these situations legally, it will come down to his/her best advice on the most likely legal outcomes based on your priorities and the hills you are prepared to die on in terms of time, cost etc.

Fwiw I do think you should reply to the email bc legal stuff rarely gets easier if one doesn’t reply. And it makes you look like an a$$ to lawyers and judges if you do lol. But I think you should simply reply by saying that you will be taking legal advice and that you or your lawyer will be in touch when you have had time to consider. You may want to ask for the contact details of her lawyer for future communication about options. And offer to provide the contact details for your lawyer if you are ready to do sol If nothing else, this acknowledges her email and demonstrates that you are taking this seriously and reasonably. (And from here on imho any written communication should always be done imagining what it might look like in front of an unknown future judge and with an eye to protecting yourself from counter claims bc divorce processes often fail to bring out the best in people, sometimes in previously unimaginable ways.)

I would encourage you to stop listening to, or caring much about, anything she says about her feelings or justifications now. The same holds true for sharing yours. Imho once a marriage gets into legal water, the landscape changes from personal to business. It is what it is, regardless of how anyone feels about how it is if that makes sense.

Now is time for you to dig deep and consider all of your available options and which of them will serve you and your kids best in the longer term. That often means thinking hard about what is really swallow-able for you, and how you swallow things you might not wish to swallow if it looks like you have to. But you DO have options, more than those three actually….but all options come with some degree of predictable consequences. Your lawyer can inform you about the legal ones, maybe some of the financial ones even; the others you will have to consider for yourself.

I suspect the toughest thing for you is that you are going to have to swallow a few things you really really don’t want to. And we get that bc most of us have been there. The first is that your marriage as it was is over and this is the way that it is ending by your wife’s choice. At least as far as you can see right now. The second is that you are going to have to coparent in some way and have less time with your children than you do now. The third is that, unless you can afford to buy her out and set in motion ways to do so, you are not going to be able to continue to live in your current house. These are big painful losses to swallow but they are predictable effects of separation and/or divorce. They won’t get any easier to swallow through avoidance, so imho do whatever you need to do with your own mindset to start accepting these facts no matter how unfair or unwanted they are. Bc your best future and that of your kids will be built on the back of HOW you accept them and what is left after you do.

And that brings you to a deep reflection of what you genuinely think is best for you as a foundation for moving forward from where you are. Bc we can only start from here, can’t we? I don’t know the answer to those deeply personal questions and tbh my opinion doesn’t matter. But yours does and you may not know yet what you think.

It sounds as if your wife is proposing either some kind of legal/financial separation where you stay legally married but where she keeps the house OR some discussion legally mediated by a third party (if that is what she means by mediation) where you try to agree some middle ground OR letting the lawyers fight it out on your behalf. Tbh it sounds most of all as if she is trying to essentially threaten you with two ‘worse’ options if you do not give her what she has consistently wanted and tried to force you to agree with which is her option A of you just moving out and she keeps everything else the same. Which of course is not how RL tends to work, is it? Can you see other options? Can your lawyer? What are the ‘standard’ ways these things work where you live? Or her moving out as she is the one choosing to end the marriage? Another option of course is that you bite the bullet, follow legal advice on how the divorce process works where you live and file yourself if there is an advantage to you in doing so.

What would you do if you accepted that your marriage was over, that you will have to live elsewhere and that you will only have 50% time with your kids as a done deal regardless of which option you take? What option would you take if you were trying to look at it from a five year ahead future you?

We do understand how appallingly painful it is to be where you are….many of us have been there. There is nothing fair or reasonable about it. It comes with a lot of emotion and a lot of grief and loss and a lot of blank future pages at a time when that is the last thing you feel able to look at. I am so sorry bc this s&it is hard. But it is also true that deciding what you can find a way to let go of is what clears the ground for a different future too. And there is one. It may not be better than what you used to have but I can promise you it will be better than today.

But it requires a clear eye about the realities and options of where you are, and a honest assessment of your own motivation about the hills you are prepared to die on if you must. Do you know what those are?

Above all, don’t be drawn into behaving like an a$$hat legally or otherwise, no matter how tempting that is. Imho you are under no obligation to be nice or concerned much about your wife’s feelings or wishes now, other than as they matter legally/practically from a business pov….but nor will your interests or your kids interests be served by taking the low road or denying that you are where you are. Be civil and business like without feeling the need to be nice or kind or emotionally engaged. That probably means limiting direct communication as much as you can and making it as factual, brief and formal as is possible in your current circumstances. Which means let her go and let go of any attempt to persuade her to think or feel differently about the path she has chosen for all of you and let go of any involvement in how the predictable consequences affect her. You have enough to do with focusing on your own baseline priorities and limiting the damage from those predictable consequences on you and your kids as much as you can.

[Helpnewc]

Sorry Baxter.

Acceptance and love.

I agree that ignoring won’t help. Just say you are seeking legal advice about the way forward.

The house is a house. It is about you and the kids. You will get through this.

I am very sorry.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Other than call a lawyer which I already have what would you recommend?

Like T wrote, acknowledge you have received message and will discuss the options with your legal advisor and get back to her by specific date.  Setting a date give you some control of the future timeline instead of being a sitting duck.

Also, sit down and start prioritizing your current and future life. Write down a list of things in your life that you are NOT willing to negotiate. When you have the list, then start going it through mindfully. Once you can objectively understand the emotional connection behind your list, you are usually in place where you can start making stratetic and good decisions.

Most likely equal (or greater share) coparenting is your number one item. Having the house may define which of you gets main parenting role, but it is also important to understand house does not matter if you cannot keep it for your family.  If house is off the list, then things like finding new home on same area where kids current friends, school etc reside is high priority goal. And that is where solid finances and job that gives you flexibility may become your number one priority...so in a way you need to explore various options and choose the ones that allow you to build the life you want.

Alvin

[FrenchHusband]

Hmm,
Got an email from W saying we need to separate. She has felt this way for a while
And she wants me to either
A- Move out, she will sign a paper that says I still have rights to the house (if such a paper exists?)
B-Go to mediation, which my understanding is a friendly divorce, I still feel the house will be lost in this
Scenario
C-Divorce, we lose it all

I will do nothing and see what happens but I just wanted to get some
Other opinions. I won’t respond to the email.
She said this is a long time coming and she’s felt this way for a long time.
Other than call a lawyer which I already have what would you recommend?

Hi B1, sorry for you that you receive this kind of mail/ultimatum. And in that bad moment, I am glad for you that you are not jumping on your keyboard to react in an hasty way.
At first view, by reading what your W writes I would say that she has no lawyer advice (the paper thing  ) at this time, so I am not sure that writing that you will see a lawyer is the right move, by doing so you would maybe send her to a lawyer. In my country divorce is a business, a very lucrative one ; once you see a lawyer the interest of the lawyer is to get the more money possible, so your lawyer and your spouse's lawyer bring you straight in a destructive spiral.

Seeing a lawyer is the good move IMO, you have no obligation to tell it to your W.

Instead of saying you will see a lawyer, if I were in your shoes I would write something like "I need time to find the best solution for the children". And I would ask also what your W expects from the mediation or what are her objectives. Maybe she seeks a quick divorce, maybe something else, maybe she doesn't know ? No assumptions.

[xyzcf]

I agree with French Husband. You do not need to tell her anything about what you are doing or not doing.

I am not even sure that you need to respond to her email at all. You already know what she wants, she's already expressed it to you..what more is there to say to her?

The ball can be left in her court to proceed legally or not. Your own legal consultation as to your rights might be helpful.

My own experience was that our "separation" cost over $50,000..because every time a lawyer had a minute of work done, it was billed....and in the end, what I was told I would be entitled to was not at all what I ended up being "rewarded". It was a great deal less than what my lawyer assured me I would receive.

[Baxter1]

Thank you all. I’m going to hold off for a bit in responding. As for responding ‘I’ll call my lawyer’ I feel that this will add fuel to the fire. I know our financial situation, we’re not really in a position to pay for lawyers and whatnot. When we’ve talked in the past about me leaving the house  I could see pain in her eyes ,like it was a physical pain to be in the same house. Like escape and avoid in reverse, she wants me out so she can get relief.
I’m not going to leave, I’m going to protect home and kids. What happens happens.

[Baxter1]

Some Journaling
Thanksgiving was ok, she took the kids to her sisters place and I stayed home. The boys came back later and we watched a movie and hung out. It seems MLC holidays are way different, we’ve spent the last 24 Thanksgivings together, this will be our first one apart.

Other than that still an At Home MLCer, she locks herself in her room when she gets home. We talk/text with each other, but that’s about it. Still co-parent well and I feel pretty detached, she comes and goes as she pleases and I’m getting better with GAL.

 She’s still with the OA (original Alienator) and they just took a nice trip to Orlando together with her best friend and husband. I can’t imagine the best friend or husband were comfortable with this scenario. I know if I went on vacation with someone and their mistress I would feel pretty weird.

Hoping the holidays go well, I guess we’ll see. Shameless plug: I signed up for Stand Up and Thrive and it’s great! The videos are good but the weekly talks are awesome. Like here it’s a great community of people who get it, and Kendas there too sharing her wisdom.

[Baxter1]

Some journaling:

A part of GAL in taking some more trips and work is having me stay out of town as well. This space is good for both of us. It seems she is getting more angry, at a recent funeral she asked if I would drive in a separate car and signed the sign in book with her and the kids only. Communication is rare at best, a text or email occasionally.  At a recent trip to my in laws I was  informed that they are aware of what is going on and support me fully. It’s nice to have their support, we’re all still
In the house, which is nice.
She seems to be spending less and less time going out, maybe the Alienator is gone? Maybe she’s getting more depressed and doesn’t want to go out as much? I read 0% into this, the MLC mind is all over the place so who knows what all is going on. For now I’m keeping my head down and just trying to get through this.

[UrsaMajor]

If Alienator #<x> is gone and she is still plunging headlong into the tunnel, you can likely expect more and more monster as well as the appearance of Alienator #<x+1>.... More Monster because no one is there to give her the addictive shot of happy she so desperately needs and that i obviously your fault (therefore you are the target of the Monster) and X=X+1 because the Mid-Lifer needs that dopamine rush.... or they need to look inside and start doing their own work (which, only happens after a brutal trip to rock bottom a la Wile E Coyote..... )

[Baxter1]

UM, as per usual you’re right! Shes headlong I the tunnel for sure. Turns out A#1 is still around.
The deeper she gets into this crisis the more I understand (if that’s even possible). Seems like the core person is definitely gone. The glimpses I used to get are less frequent, the anger is getting more intense. That being said I accept the ‘process of MLC’, she has to get through this in her own time. Nothing I can do but stand back and stand by while she figures herself out. She has been cycling lately and is doing more at the house and is hone a lot more.

We are both still in the house with the kids. Me being in the house is a boundary to keep others out, also have financial boundaries so I’m not sponsoring her walk on the wild side. Other than that we each keep away from each other. As time goes on I’m told she will get angrier, and my situation will get worse. I’m still early in this game but I’m still standing.

[FaithWalker]

I hope despite all the waves from the crisis, that you were able to find some joy this Christmas Baxter1.

[Baxter1]

FW-

I was pleasantly surprised by Christmas. We were all together and watched the kids open their presents. She got me small nice things and I did the same for her. There was definitely some awkwardness but we worked through it and had a good day. She even made dinner, this was a welcome surprise, we don’t really have family dinners anymore. I make dinner for me and the kids and she comes by later and makes herself a plate.

I hope you are also enjoying the holidays, appreciate the check in!

[xyzcf]

So happy that you had a peaceful Christmas together. it helps to be able to have family time together...the kids "see" more than we give them credit for.

Enjoy this special time of year~

[Baxter1]

A little journaling:
W still at home, still high energy but has slowed down a lot over the last month or two. Still locks herself in the room when she gets home and conversations are rare at best. We still co-parent well and we’ve settled into the ‘new normal’
All that being said monster made a come back today! I haven’t seen monster in quite some time, I thought she forgot about me but nope, she’s back. W has been taking trips to parts unknown with who knows who( alienator has been confirmed). That being said I too have been taking trips to
Parts unknown with just me. It appears that when I go on trips I am a horrible person. So monster has a problem with me enjoying life, because why should I have any fun. In addition to that monster again asked me to move out. We were about due for that conversation, it is literally every two months, like clockwork. Good news is I stood my ground on both not moving(the person who wants out gets out) and still having fun( why should she have all the fun?).

That’s about it, just wanted to vent, 6 months ago I would have been floored by this but time does
Make you stronger, I now take it in stride.

[FrenchHusband]

Hi B1,

I am glad you are doing well ! It is funny how our spouses want us to be as bad as they are  .
Seems we are living Groundhog Day everyday, but as the hero of the movie, after the first shock we are slowly getting better and better

[I Am The Salad]

Baxter, I’ve just read your threads and I think your W and my H have read the same MLC Handbook. Such similar scripts. It’s really quite weird. We’ve got to the point where we’ve agreed that no one is going to move out for now and we’re not going to have any kind of conversation with S6, who seems very content and is thriving which is what I want to preserve.

One thing that struck me when I was reading your threads was about the ‘advice’ that our MLCers are getting from other people. I realised that in my situation, and possibly yours and many others, the main source of relationship advice that they are getting and listening to is most likely coming from the Alienator. There’s no one else they really listen to (because that would require some kind of rational thought) and it’s used as a bonding experience between the MLCer and Alienator. A kind of ‘no one understands me the way you do’ type feeling that can roughly be translated as ‘no one blows smoke up my a$$ the way you do’. It’s kind of like a drug addict asking their dealer for advice on rehab.

[UrsaMajor]

One thing that struck me when I was reading your threads was about the ‘advice’ that our MLCers are getting from other people. I realised that in my situation, and possibly yours and many others, the main source of relationship advice that they are getting and listening to is most likely coming from the Alienator.

The main sources of support for the MLC'ers are typically the alienator or other enablers. Why? Because anyone that disagrees with the path the MLC'er has chosen is then automatically put into the camp of "the enemy" and either castigated or cancelled..... Because those are the people that reinforce accountability and responsibility for one's own actions.... and the MLC'er can NOT stand that idea....

[Ichoosefaith]

One thing that struck me when I was reading your threads was about the ‘advice’ that our MLCers are getting from other people. I realised that in my situation, and possibly yours and many others, the main source of relationship advice that they are getting and listening to is most likely coming from the Alienator.

The main sources of support for the MLC'ers are typically the alienator or other enablers. Why? Because anyone that disagrees with the path the MLC'er has chosen is then automatically put into the camp of "the enemy" and either castigated or cancelled..... Because those are the people that reinforce accountability and responsibility for one's own actions.... and the MLC'er can NOT stand that idea....

I couldn’t agree more. I have watched my W surround herself with people who either barely know her or her new”friends” she has made since our separation and she has deleted and blocked and cast out EVERYONE who has spoken up about her behavior or questioned it or tried to talk to her. Anyone who knew her and knew us has been thrown away like trash even after lifelong friendships because they aren’t just buying into to her crap.

[Reinventing]

It’s kind of like a drug addict asking their dealer for advice on rehab.

Yes!

[Baxter1]

In the past I have asked if her friends (the actual friends she had and has known for years) support her in this. She said she doesn’t listen to anyone and makes her own decisions. I’m going to take that as a huge NO. That being said it seems like she is living an alternate life with whomever will agree with the narrative. Her parents (who actually agree with me and are appalled by her behavior) say that she is standoffish towards them.

[UrsaMajor]

In the past I have asked if her friends (the actual friends she had and has known for years) support her in this. She said she doesn’t listen to anyone and makes her own decisions. I’m going to take that as a huge NO. That being said it seems like she is living an alternate life with whomever will agree with the narrative. Her parents (who actually agree with me and are appalled by her behavior) say that she is standoffish towards them.

The Mid-Lifer tends to surround themselves with enablers and people who support their narrative. Anyone who dares to question them or demand any kind of accountability is classified as an "Enemy."

[Baxter1]

General question:

My wife had her mother send over old photo albums, pics from when she was a child. There’s also some old report cards and other memories. Is this common? Is she looking back to try to ‘relive’ and re-evaluate her childhood?

[UrsaMajor]

General question:

My wife had her mother send over old photo albums, pics from when she was a child. There’s also some old report cards and other memories. Is this common? Is she looking back to try to ‘relive’ and re-evaluate her childhood?

Can you please stick your elbow in a pot of green and describe how it tastes?

You'll have about the same amount of success trying to understand why an MLC'er does whatever it is they are doing.....

However, in answer to part 2 of the question, usually the Mid-Lifer is trying to erase anything connecting them to their past but that doesn't mean that they don't try to relive it.... Since they do tend to revert to grade-school/early teens emotionally, she might be trying to recapture that lost "thing" that she believes is lurking in her past life.... Who knows?  It is a mystery

[Baxter1]

UM,

You always come back with some great ones! I figured she was going back in time to relive something. But you’re right, figuring out the MLC mind is a fools errand, if she doesn’t know who she is and why she does what she does then what chance do I have to figure her out?

[UrsaMajor]

UM,

You always come back with some great ones! I figured she was going back in time to relive something. But you’re right, figuring out the MLC mind is a fools errand, if she doesn’t know who she is and why she does what she does then what chance do I have to figure her out?

Just doing my job, Sir. Just doing my job.....

[Helpnewc]

Sadly I agree.

I gave up attempting to rationalise the irrational sometime ago.

[Baxter1]

Some journaling,

Well it’s been a year, one whole year of MLC. It’s been quite the ride, from the confusion and sadness at BD to now living together but separate in the same home.
We are in a phase where I am totally ignored. I don’t see monster all too often, every once in a while I am told if I don’t move out she will file, I stand my ground so this has yet to happen. She’s still high energy but has slowed down a bit, hone most nights and just is locked in her room. The alienator is still around from what I can see, I try to keep that out of my mind. Silver lining to this is that my relationship with has my kids has grown. Also I have grown, I’m stronger and I’ve traveled and learned about myself over this last year.

I could not have made it without the support of this group. Thank you all for your responses and support. There were times where I thought my whole life was falling apart and the responses to my posts got me through those dark times. I was hoping that balloons would fall from the ceiling and I’d get a sash for the one year anniversary, maybe next year…

[Biscuit]

Good post Baxter.

I'm sure Ursa has a balloons and sash gif waiting for you somewhere

[UrsaMajor]

I was hoping that balloons would fall from the ceiling and I’d get a sash for the one year anniversary, maybe next year…

This will have to do ....

[Biscuit]

Pretty good UM

[Baxter1]

Love it!

[xyzcf]

Thanks for the morning laugh UM

[Happylight]

Well it’s been a year, one whole year of MLC.
Silver lining to this is that my relationship with has my kids has grown. Also I have grown, I’m stronger and I’ve traveled and learned about myself over this last year.

I just recently found out about this forum, but I am also just passed the one year mark of my invitation to this crisis.  I am proud of my growth as well.  It is fantastic that you have also grown your relationship with your kids.  So much research shows that fathers have a HUGE impact on their kids, and as a society, we don't value that as I think we should.  Although I have withheld a lot of information from them, and mitigated damage to the best of my ability, it has been heart breaking to watch the damage my H has done to his relationship with our kids. 

[Baxter1]

I don’t think she has said a thing to the kids about OM, I know I haven’t. I just tell them we are going through something. Them seeing her disappear for days and seeing me be the stable force has really helped our relationship. It’s so sad, she was the best mom, now it’s like she’s a different person all together.

[Baxter1]

Some Journaling

She filed the other day. It’s been a little over a year of her threatening to file if I don’t move out so she finally did it the other day. This doesn’t affect my stand, it’s my understanding that these things take time but I’m still holding on. Maybe it was pressure from the Alienator or maybe she’s getting close to SPLAT and this is just her way of escaping and avoiding.I guess it really does get worse before it gets better. I’m still in the home and still see the kids(and Baxter)  every day. She still locks herself in her room when she gets home. Still high energy but has slowed down a lot of the last couple of months. Time will tell what happens..

[Treasur]

Have you got your own lawyer and taken legal advice, Baxter1? Bc imho once they file, the landscape changes and your priorities might need to adapt accordingly.

[UrsaMajor]

Have you got your own lawyer and taken legal advice, Baxter1? Bc imho once they file, the landscape changes and your priorities might need to adapt accordingly.

Exactly correct -
New Priority #1 - Know your options/rights..... Get up to speed with the legal aspects because once they file, it is ALL just business.....

[FrenchHusband]

Some Journaling

She filed the other day. It’s been a little over a year of her threatening to file if I don’t move out so she finally did it the other day. This doesn’t affect my stand, it’s my understanding that these things take time but I’m still holding on. Maybe it was pressure from the Alienator or maybe she’s getting close to SPLAT and this is just her way of escaping and avoiding.I guess it really does get worse before it gets better. I’m still in the home and still see the kids(and Baxter)  every day. She still locks herself in her room when she gets home. Still high energy but has slowed down a lot of the last couple of months. Time will tell what happens..

it is really funny how our wives seem to follow same script  and same timeline. I received the divorce letter one month and a few days ago. But no divorce filed until now.
High energy / Low Energy -> at the moment I don't see the difference in speed, only the difference in intensity. Have courage and Faith ! And yes, I agree with other advises : a lawyer is a priority now for you.

[Helpnewc]

Our Prime Minister in Australia’s wife ended his marriage on New Year’s Day a few years ago and he said something that really helped me and others I know on this journey.

Albo said “I needed to stop trying to understand it and just accept it and accept it.” I spent so much time trying to understand where my wife went and why this had happened to me. My life has got better now I have stopped struggling to understand and just accepted where I am.


I am very sorry Baxter. It all takes time. Everything had to be done in. A rush for us and now 4 months later she has not filed the agreement. I don’t attach significance to it.


Find a good lawyer. Listen to the advice and make good decisions for you and your children. It is all you can do.

[Baxter1]

Some more journaling:

A couple of days after she filed she came up to me and said she needed a hug (We haven’t had physical contact of any kind in about a year). We had the longest, tightest hug I think we’ve ever had, it was a 5 minute hug. Then she retreated back to her room, and didn’t say a word. Ever since then it’s been silence, ignores me, doesn’t respond when I say hello, nothing. I’m not really putting much stock in it but it was a welcome surprise.

Other than that she’s home a lot more. Home on weekends, making dinner, buying stuff for the house and cleaning, glimpses of the way it used to be. Not sure if the pressure from the alienator proved too much and it fell apart or what but it’s nice to see her engaged, it’s probably cycling but I’ll enjoy this.

Other than that no word with the filing, it’s been almost 6 weeks and she hasn’t said a thing. If I didnt happen to look it up I would have never known. If she was so anxious to get it done I would think she would have done some type of action but then again who knows what’s going on it her pretty little head. For now I’m focusing on me, the kids and Baxter and leaving her to it . Que sera sera. She got hurt at work so maybe that’s holding her back, she not getting a full paycheck so maybe that’s playing into this? Again who knows, for now I’m staying in the home and standing.

[UrsaMajor]

A couple of days after she filed she came up to me and said she needed a hug.  (We haven’t had physical contact of any kind in about a year). We had the longest, tightest hug I think we’ve ever had, it was a 5 minute hug.

You are a bigger person than I am.... After I got served with her D papers, my MLCxW asked for something similar and my response was that, since her divorce was in process, we no longer had that kind of relationship and left it at that.

[Helpnewc]

Hi Baxter,

You seem in a good place. They are just so odd.

My wife went back to not using my name again in communications. I gently said I still have a name and it would be nice if you used it.

We settled property the week before December and the agreement is still not filed. At the time, it had to be done in a week and then nothing. To use my brother in laws language they are cooked in the head.

My daughter is 10 on Sunday. She is having a party with her friends. I am invited but a bit like the Dixie Chicks I am not ready to play nice. I have explained to my eldest I can’t manage it emotionally and she was sad but understood.

My relationship with my kids is very much improved. There is still a bit of parental alienation going on but I find by taking the high road I am winning that one.

But mostly I just miss my family being together. And that’s ok.

Stay strong.

[Baxter1]

Some Journaling:

It seems the pendulum has swung back. W is now going out more and is home less. It’s not like it was at BD, she would just leave for days. Now it’s a day here and there. Other than that it’s just anger. Saying hello (or anything else) is met with one word answers if at all. Having an understanding of MLC has really helped me with detachment.

As for me I’m planning some more trips for the summer. Went to go see a Cricket match the other day and just trying to get out and do cool and different things( has anyone tried glassblowing ?)
Other than that no big changes, still at home and I’m still standing. It’s very frustrating at times but I keep thinking to what she said when this all started. ‘All this stuff I’m doing isn’t me, I don’t know who I am’, remembering that keeps me going with empathy.

Kids are ok, oldest is graduating and they are both going to camp this summer. Im sure she’ll disappear, which is ok, Baxter is great company.

[xyzcf]

Your post reminds me of the popular British saying "Stay Calm and Carry On".

Glad to hear that you are looking at doing some different things. One summer a fellow LBSer came to visit and we went white water rafting and to a wolf sanctuary.

The world is as wide open as we want it to be.

And of course, Baxter is always looking for a new adventure!

You sound good!

[FrenchHusband]

Oh this is great ! You are now detached and able to go ahead with grace and empathy. Good for you and your kids

Im sure she’ll disappear, which is ok, Baxter is great company.

Expecting the worse and living the best times : this could be a motto for the LBS IMO

[WHY]

Be strong Bax.  One day at a time my friend. 

[Happylight]

Other than that no word with the filing, it’s been almost 6 weeks and she hasn’t said a thing. If I didnt happen to look it up I would have never known. If she was so anxious to get it done I would think she would have done some type of action but then again who knows what’s going on it her pretty little head. For now I’m focusing on me, the kids and Baxter and leaving her to it . Que sera sera. She got hurt at work so maybe that’s holding her back, she not getting a full paycheck so maybe that’s playing into this? Again who knows, for now I’m staying in the home and standing.

The waiting is so hard.  I hope you are finding stuff to keep you busy!  I found out that the Parks and Wildlife offers some free kayaking classes, so thinking about signing up even though I have to drive an hour to get to it. It is something I want to do, but not sure it is wise for me to do alone.

[Baxter1]

I am in for the kayaking! Maybe there’s a class or something? I agree maybe solo kayaking isn’t a beginner sport. I might try going in a hot air balloon ride or curling. I agree the waiting is very difficult, I’m trying to keep busy with fun stuff, I’d rather do these activities with her, but for now I’m doing my own thing which is pretty awesome too.

[Baxter1]

Some more Journaling:

Just had an interesting talk with W last night. We were both in the kitchen and was snacking, she asked if I wanted some(she hadn’t talked to me in ages so of course I said yes). The funny thing was it seemed like she was talking softly, it’s like she was 9 or 10. Not her usual voice or mannerisms. It lasted about 30 seconds then she walked away. Sounds like this her revisiting her childhood? If I wasn’t convinced that this is MLC I definitely am now.

[xyzcf]

This used to be discussed quite a bit, how the MLCer seems to revert back to a previous time in their lives, even suggested that it was before they even know their partner. Many have "seen" this type of regression.

I think it might tie into Erik Erickson's stages of development. That if they did not adequately attain the developmental tasks, they need to go back in order to process through them. Just a theory I am fond of.

I personally have seen my spouse at about a 2 year old, 8 year old and 11 year old..it's quite fascinating to see an adult but feel as though he is at a very much younger age.

[WHY]

Hearts Blessing actually had some good writings on this regression.

My gut feel is there is a correlation between the amount of regression and the level of trauma.  The early the trauma took place, the more chaotic the MLC.  Again just my gut feel.

Found it.  Also suggest the "choice" of OM/OW may not be random but also related to the trauma:

https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/a-deeper-look-at-the-children-of-the-mid-lifers-issues/

https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/past-parental-issues-and-the-affair-partner-an-explanation/

[Baxter1]

W-


Thanks for sharing! It was kinda strange to see but I guess it’s a progress of sorts…

[Nas]

https://integrativepsych.co/new-blog/what-is-parts-work-therapy-ifs

I thought you might find this helpful. Family systems is the notion that we have inner “parts” that were developed and function to protect us. They may be our own inner toddler, child, tween, teenager, young adult or they may be a part that mimics a member of our FOO.

It may at first sound like hooey (to use a technical term 😉) but it’s totally different than multiple personalities, and these parts do not take over our being and override our current self. It’s simply that, when triggered or processing something, one of our various protective parts may become evident. It may show up to “protect” us. We don’t become the part. We are still the person we are. I was processing something specific for almost all of 2023, and I am positive that if I had a husband or a close intimate partner at the time, there are most certainly moments over those months where they would not have thought it absurd to suggest I was “not myself” and reverting to an earlier time in my life. I could see it myself, I knew the precise moments where something unresolved resulted in me reacting (instead of responding) in a manner that did not align with my current character.

It’s possible she’s also aware of the changes you are seeing in her mannerisms and behavior. Or she may not be right now, but will become more aware of it if she is in fact attempting to resolve an inner conflict. Or this may not be even close to what she’s going through, we can’t really know, just a different lens I thought I would share. I think the link I provided gives a good basic overview.

[Baxter1]

Nas-

Great read, thanks! I’m guessing thats the point of this. She’s processsing her parts from childhood, I’ll keep going with space to let her figure herself out.

[Baxter1]

More Journaling:

Seems like we’re in a good cycle this week. I’ve been getting some anchor checks for the last week or so. I appreciate this a lot but I know that I can have zero expectations and that the low cycle will come back and it I will be back to being ignored again. All that being said it should be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of weeks. The boys are off to camp and it will be the two of us. Her actions are telling me that the OM and her are on a hiatus for a bit, I’m not going to fool
Myself into thinking it’s done but who knows. Other than that I’m giving space and focusing and me and the kids.

[Baxter1]

More Journaling:
 The kids are at camp so it’s just me and W. We’re cordial, I even find that she is taking more of an interest in the home, she redecorated the living room, it came out nice. She’s texting me about small things, the house, dog,kids. Not major issues but the fact that she checks in at all is also refreshing.
Had a discussion the other night, I responded to her D petition by saying I don’t agree, there are two checkboxes and I checked don’t agree. She got a copy of my response maybe two weeks ago but she decided today she wanted to talk about it. She asked why I just don’t grant the divorce, I explained I don’t want to lose the house. She went into a small rant about how the marriage was horrible and how she’s  now ‘living her best life’. So frustrating, it’s easy to live a fun life when you have two incomes. Once she’s on her own and she has to pay for an apartment I’m sure the party will be over. She and the AP are definitely having a rough time, she used to leave for days, now she’s home most nights, I heard her screaming on the phone at someone a couple of weeks ago.
Why blowup your life for someone like that?
Anyways, still standing, still not giving up,  both still at home

[forthetrees]

Seems odd that with the kids away that she is home instead of disappeared with AP. Has she run the numbers for life on just her salary? Does she realize that if custody is 50-50 she won´t get child support and might have to contribute more than what she has been?

[Baxter1]

For-

I don’t think she’s thinking at all. My lawyer explained that most likely we will have to sell the home. In her mind she gets the home, the kids will stay with her and I will have to make payments (alimony,child support). Not sure where she’s getting her information from, whatever payments I give her will not replace a home, I’ve tried to explain this to her but it falls on deaf ears.

[xyzcf]

whatever payments I give her will not replace a home, I’ve tried to explain this to her but it falls on deaf ears.

We lived well but we also saved and made good financial decisions. His career provided very good income. I remember asking him "how much do we really need to save for retirement" and his response was "there's never too much".

After BD, I tried to point out that we had spent all those years saving together...I remember his look at me...so cold as he said "xyzcf, I cannot stay with you for money".

It wasn't the point of the money, but how we had together saved, discussed our choices, sat together at financial advisors, made investments...all the financial choices made together. It was the way we lived...we'd go to Home Depot or the grocery store because it was pleasant to go together. We made our decisions, together....so the splitting of our assets was another huge blow.

And I didn't know how it would work out, I had no clue if I would have "enough" (thankfully it turned out our savings plans allowed me to keep the house and be pretty secure financially).

They truly want to leave it all behind.....there is no reasoning with them at all.

[Biscuit]

Baxter,,
I think it's something they just often don't consider whilst in crisis. I know my W has a really hard time understanding that finacially the goal posts have moved significantly and that there's obviously going to be less money about if it's split. It's the whole, whats mine is mine, what's ours is mine, and I'll also take a chunk of what's yours too. When they realise that's not how it works in real life then that can be hard for them to understand.

I've had a load of talks in the last few days with my W about money. She doesn't believe or want to listen to what I say - which is advice we've had from our company accountant. I asked today if she'd like to speak to him herself - crickets!! lol.

[Baxter1]

XY-

To go the grocery store together again would be great, I miss stuff like that. It took me a couple of visits to not get emotional in the bread aisle, we shopped together every Sunday.

Biscuit-
It’s so frustrating! She’s so smart yet she can’t see that the consequences of her actions will end badly for her, the kids and me. After BD I set it up so that my overtime came out of the account and put it in my own account. Monster didn’t like that arrangement, oh well. I didn’t see the need for my working extra to pay for her and AP to have dinner.

[Helpnewc]

I am a long way down the road.

I don’t think there is anything rational going on. They just want what they want and  it’s their time. When there is a moment of rationality and consequences, they just stall as the present situation meets there needs.

But yes in an ideal world, I run away, keep the house and get the kids.

[Baxter1]

Help-

It’s all so very frustrating..

[Baxter1]

Some Journaling

W just got back from her vacation, we haven’t had a family vacation since BD, we each do our own thing it seems. We talked about her trip, I listened and empathized with her delays and told her I was glad she had a good time. That night she made dinner for me and S16, she left 2 plates for us and be and my son had dinner together, it was awesome.
Recently I see her softening, just a bit. She still locks herself in her room when she gets home, but here’s the thing, she’s actually home.
I’m under no delusion that this crisis is anywhere near over, or that this means anything but there seems to be a pattern forming. I’ll keep an eye on this, it may be just cycling. Other then that it will be nice to have the kids home from camp, good to get back into the routine again

[Atari25]

Some Journaling

W just got back from her vacation, we haven’t had a family vacation since BD, we each do our own thing it seems. We talked about her trip, I listened and empathized with her delays and told her I was glad she had a good time. That night she made dinner for me and S16, she left 2 plates for us and be and my son had dinner together, it was awesome.
Recently I see her softening, just a bit. She still locks herself in her room when she gets home, but here’s the thing, she’s actually home.
I’m under no delusion that this crisis is anywhere near over, or that this means anything but there seems to be a pattern forming. I’ll keep an eye on this, it may be just cycling. Other then that it will be nice to have the kids home from camp, good to get back into the routine again

Whatever you can do to keep her at home do it.

I can see now that getting a spouse back home is going to be very hard to do. At this point I think she would rather divorce me than swallow her pride and come back no matter what I say.

[Baxter1]

A-

I am doing my best to keep her here. This has been(and continues to be) a crazy ride. I hope your wife swallows some pride and makes some attempts to come back.

[Baxter1]

Journaling-

Yesterday was our 22nd anniversary, I was curious to see if she would mention anything,
She didn’t but that seems to be part of the MLC package it would seem.

W is home on a Friday and Saturday night, this is rare but I believe part of the new pattern. I believe the OM is gone, she’s home more, restaurant receipts from the town where he lives in have stopped. Came home the other night to see a picture of all 4 of us on the fridge. Texting/talking is slightly increased. She’s taking more interest in the home.
Seems like these are good things but I know that things can change in a heartbeat and I am very much aware that MLC is much longer then 18 months. Getting ready to go to Hawaii soon, we are spreading my father’s ashes there as his final wish. This trip will take place during the kids first weeks of school so I decided not to have them come. Not that she would want to but I don’t ask W to come either.

[forthetrees]

I am sorry that you will be making the trek to Hawaii without the support that one would expect to have. You might break down when the totality of it all hits so give yourself a lot of grace. Know that people are thinking of you as you honor your Dad´s wishes.

[Standing Strong]

Hey Bax,

What a nice thing.... honoring your father like that.
I lived there for a few years....... where are you going to do it?
I think it's nice you are going alone. Very good. Very healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3DELFIcy74

Nice and slow..... take care of yourself. 

-SS

[FrenchHusband]

Whatever you can do to keep her at home do it.

I can see now that getting a spouse back home is going to be very hard to do. At this point I think she would rather divorce me than swallow her pride and come back no matter what I say.

Hi Atari and Baxter,

I would like my grain of salt to your words, as I have a different point of view. "Whatever you can do" is too much in my opinion. From what I see, Baxter you are doing well with your life and your children at this time. No need to change it and to try to transform in Superman. I guess you are aware of that.
And anyway, if your W needs to live your home "whatever you can do" will never be enough IMO.

I had W at home during 15 months after BD and it was a good thing for me and for the children (for W maybe). From the beginning she had the crazy MLC projects in mind (fly to Switzerland, divorce, abandoning the children) and she "had" to do it from what I understand now. Nothing I could have done would have prevented the crazy project to happen, I believe. Now I don't want to do anything to make W come back. I don't think that would be good for me, for the children and even for herself. W leaving us more and more the last 4 months has changed the dynamics at home and maybe also for the MLC process. The children are not asking her to come back full time. They only ask (and me also) when she comes back as she does it for a few days every 2-3 weeks. 

I think getting back the spouses, preventing them to leave or making them swallow their pride is not in the power of the LBSs. What we can control is only ourselves. If the want to come back, they know the way, and some of our spouses will do it, not the majority to be honest.

[Treasur]

I must admit I agree with this.
Not that them staying - or leaving - is a good or bad thing, I have no idea. Some stay, some go, some come and go. Whatever drives that is about that Me thing imho….nothing we say or do, nothing our kids say or do.

But I think it is a surprisingly freeing thing to open one’s hand metaphorically and accept all of the many things you can’t control and are also not responsible for.
It’s painful too, and it can feel like giving up perhaps, but imho it is just a very deep level of acceptance of the kind of limits that usually come with being human.
We can choose what to say yes or no to, we can choose how we respond to events and we can choose which of our thoughts and feelings we give more weight. So, we can choose not to throw them out but we can’t make them stay. We can choose to keep the door open if they leave but we can’t make them walk through it. And sometimes those things carry heavy costs based on LBS stories here.

What if anything do you think you would do differently if you completely surrendered even the hope of influence or control over your wife’s behaviour? If you just shrugged your shoulders and opened your mental hand? Anything?

I hope your trip to Hawaii goes as you wish. Death and loss is a thing we usually can’t control either which is maybe why how we mark it can matter a great deal.

[Baxter1]

Thank you all, it will be a bittersweet trip. Being there with my mom and brother will be nice, but having W there would be even better.
 
As for what happens with the rest of this MLC stuff who knows. I still see glimpses of her in there at times and for that reason I won’t give up. That being said I’m just going with the process of MLC, I’m staying in our home to protect our children from any ‘visitors’ and protecting our finances. Other than that there’s not much I can do or really want to do. She needs to see this to the end, as do I. Will she chose this life that we’ve made for 25 years, maybe, maybe not. Her choice is just that, her choice, all I can do is be me and hope that she sees that the grass isn’t greener out there.

[Baxter1]

Journaling:

Getting ready for the trip and I can’t wait!
W had a car accident the other day. She is fine and so is the other driver: she called 2 friends, one didn’t pick up and the other was busy so she went to the bottom of the list and called me. Picked her and brought her home, on the ride home she admitted she made a huge mistake. She recently switched jobs (“To make more Money so I can leave you”) and she absolutely hates it. She wishes she had never left the old job, I empathized and told I’m sorry that it sucks. It seems all these failures are finally adding up. Hates job, OM is gone, friends don’t call back, family is siding with her husband, and the fact that we will lose the house if D goes through.
It appears all of these things are putting her into a new phase. She goes to the beach,  she stayed out of town and goes to the mountains, she eats dinner alone. She processing her life, looking  at her decisions and her life. In the mean time she is talking to me a little more, leaving dinner plates for me, cooking and cleaning more. Occasional glimpses of old her are coming through. Time will tell how this process goes. In the mean time I’m doing my own thing in the man cave with Baxter by my side.

[FrenchHusband]

Hi Baxter,

good to see your update. Last year it was very funny to see how your story and mine were very similar with one month delay. But this year our stories have different paths : my W has left home and lives in another country, yours is still at home.

What is the cause of the difference between our cases ? It might be, I guess, the OM. In your case OM is gone, in my case, I feel (no more than a feeling because I don't snoop anymore since January) OM is still in place.

More important, you are doing well, and you are able to handle the situation at home with the children. Well done my friend !

Please continue to update.

[Baxter1]

More journaling:

Got back from Hawaii and it was an amazing trip. It was nice to spend time with my mom brother and his wife. We spread dads ashes in the ocean and it was a lovely ceremony. I go to swim with sharks, go surfing and plenty of walking along the beach, it would have been nice to be there with W and kids but it wasn't in the cards for this trip it would seem.

Other than that W is still home and stays home most nights. We talk  almost everyday, about the kids, bills, Baxter whatever is going on that day. She keeps complaining about the bills being so high, that what happens when one is in college and the other is a teen. There is no discussion about feeling or the D or any of that, just light conversations.

We have a pre-trial meeting coming up, I'm getting all my ducks in a row. I'm hoping that this is one of those "file and does nothing" situations but I'll be ready for whatever happens. I don't see any logical reason why she would go through with any of this but the MLC mind is all over somehow never can tell. From what I can tell OM is gone and she's just going out with friends but even that has slowed down.

In addition we are just co-parenting very well and the one remaining kid at home is doing well at school and doing great with the football team(American football)

[Flummoxed]

Hi Baxter,

It is wonderful to hear that your trip went well and you got to spend quality time with family. It sounds like you really made the most of the trip and that’s amazing!

Thank you so much for sharing these updates! Although we cannot say or believe anything for certain, at least for this moment in time, what a wonderful shift in dynamics. I am truly so happy for the two of you!

I have to agree with FrenchHusband- our original BD dates occurred around the same time, but my situation seems to be on the opposite end of the spectrum. However, each journey is as unique as each MLCer. Hoping for continued growth, peace, and positive change!

[Atari25]

Other than that W is still home and stays home most nights. We talk  almost everyday, about the kids, bills, Baxter whatever is going on that day. She keeps complaining about the bills being so high, that what happens when one is in college and the other is a teen. There is no discussion about feeling or the D or any of that, just light conversations.

We have a pre-trial meeting coming up, I'm getting all my ducks in a row. I'm hoping that this is one of those "file and does nothing" situations but I'll be ready for whatever happens. I don't see any logical reason why she would go through with any of this but the MLC mind is all over somehow never can tell. From what I can tell OM is gone and she's just going out with friends but even that has slowed down.

In addition we are just co-parenting very well and the one remaining kid at home is doing well at school and doing great with the football team(American football)

I can't imagine living with my wife now that we are going through mediation. To me it would be so awkward in everyway but I'm glad there is civility and calm around your situation.

There is no reason for most MLC divorces but it seems to be the norm. I was hoping through the summer nothing would continue to happen but I was wrong.  I hope for you the file it and nothing it what happens.

[Baxter1]

Some Journaling-

W and I talked about the pre-trial stuff. She still wants me out of the house, some things never change! She been unhappy for 23 years(we got married in 2002) I was horrible and if I wasn’t so horrible she wouldn’t have had an affair. It was a lot to take in but I just listened, validated when appropriate (my sins was that I worked too much when the kids were little) and pushed back gently on the other stuff.

OM is gone and she likes to  go to the beach and mountains so who knows what’s going on in her head. I’m at a level if detachment where I know I’ll be fine either way. Actually sometimes I want to just call it a day and that scares me, I would have never have thought I would feel this way.

Silver lining is that we’re all still under the same roof and that’s a good thing, we both get to see the kids, I’m not paying rent on a place I don’t want and of course I get to wake up to Baxter every day so it’s all good.

[Flummoxed]

I just want to commend you for being able to sit through that conversation in-person so calmly and validate/push back when needed. Phenomenal work- I, for one, am in awe.

Always helps to focus on that silver lining! Keep it up, Baxter1- amazing and inspiring!

[Helpnewc]

Baxter, same complaints from mine. And maybe it was fair but I was providing at the time and someone had to do it to allow the other partner to be at home.

But I could have done better. I have acknowledged that.

The frustration is the inability to remember anything good. But it is all just justification for bad behaviour.

And as you know. It is not about you at all sadly.

But understanding it does not make it easier to accept it.

Stay strong.

[Standing Strong]

You're right where you need to be Bax 

You got this!!!

-SS

[OffRoad]

You have to love their inability to do math. And that they married us when they were miserable.  And so many of them say the exact same things.

Yep, stay in that house until there is no option for you. Is there any path for you to keep it if a D goes through?

[Treasur]

Yup, all pretty textbook script, isn’t it? Well, not very pretty to listen to, of course. One of the things that (now) strikes me as quite strange really is that these MLC folks often seem to keep assuming that we are still obliged to care about their opinion of us even after they have decided to discard us….tbh I suspect that’s a habit that both MLCers and LBS take a while to break? Part of being an LBS inherent in the LB bit surely is that I’m no longer obliged to try to reassure or comfort you, or try to fix whatever you don’t like about me, life or anything else or do anything really for the sole purpose of meeting your needs or wants.

Imho it’s sometimes tricky to maintain that balance between validation as acknowledgement and validation as agreement. And, again jmo, but there are some things MLCers say that are so awful, I’m not sure anyone needs to hear it more than once. These things are often scarred on our memories while anecdotally many MLCers seem to have no memory of saying them later. And tbh it can verge towards abuse and a kind of psychological bullying if it goes on too long, so it’s ok imho to not be obliged to listen to it over and over again, to acknowledge it and walk away. To accept that someone thinks or feels x bc they have said so, but that we are not obliged to soak it up or make it our priority just bc it is theirs.  That’s true in life writ large, isn’t it?

I’m not sure I recall reading any anecdotal evidence here that soaking up their anger or complaints repeatedly makes any difference at all to how they see us or their behaviour? But most of us LBS probably think it might, at least for a while. Or we think we can debate them out if it maybe, idk. Again jmo but what marks it as MLCish is usually the extreme lack of reciprocity which is not the adult norm…..there’s no You in it, just Me Me Me.

It’s a mark of our own recovery probably when we reach a point of shoulder shrugging perhaps….you hate me, you blame me for everything wrong in your life and you want me to just disappear with minimal inconvenience to you….ok, so, your practical proposal for next steps is….? Ok, I’ll take some time to think about that. I don’t know if this was how the convo felt to you, Baxter, but often you find there is no So What bit to the conversation….its just emotional vomiting or an attempt to get you to do what they want eg leave the house. Looking back, was there a proposed action point? And if so, was it any different from what you have heard before?

I agree with others that staying in the house with your kids and Baxter sounds wise, but probably quite hard emotionally. Have you taken legal advice about your options?

[Treasur]

And a PS - try not to be scared of your own feelings. Feelings are not facts and they are not actions. But they can be useful bits of info if you accept their presence and sit with them for a while having a metaphorical cup of coffee lol.

[Baxter1]

Thank you all for the validation.it was tough to hear but knowing that it’s all part of the script gives me a great comfort. I’m not planning on going anywhere, I’m pretty content in the man cave. As for her ‘plan’: I leave for 2 years(until S16 graduates)then we sell the house.She mentioned this plan after admitting to the affair and admitting that the OM is gone. This was a small conciliation but who’s to say there won’t be OM2,3,4 or a rebound to OM1 if I leave? I think I’ll stay in the man cave to prevent any of that foolishness in the home around the kids.
As for legal advice  I spoke to a lawyer who said that she was being very unreasonable and I should just stay put. Ugh, the joys of an MLC spouse, to be continued…

[Baxter1]

Journaling-

Well, after 21 months it’s finally happening, one of us is moving out. We had the pre-trial yesterday and after mediation and talking back and forth with the judge it was decided that I must leave the home. After explaining that we have been in the home successfully for almost 2 years with the kids stable and co parenting very well the judge sided with W. He was surprised we lasted this long, and sometimes so am I.

All that being said my stand remains, we are still married and who knows what will happen with continuing mediation and negotiations. In the mean time I continue to see the kids every day and will continue to visit them all the time from my new location. In a moral sense this isn’t at all right, she’s the one causing all the trouble and I’m the one who’s out. On the bright side the kids get to stay in a stable home, which we both agree is what’s best for them.

I guess this will be a new episode in this ongoing soap opera of MLC. Maybe some separation will help us both in our growth. I know I am definitely not the person I was when all this started and neither is she, and maybe that’s the point.

[Helpnewc]

Dear Baxter,

It is so hard. I am 2.5 years in. My wife left in January of this year as I simply said I was not prepared to baby sit for her to date other men. I am fortunate she left as other many I know left and 7 years later the fight about the home goes on.

I made a decision early on to give her the money but when then it has taken 12 months for that to occur. It all is so slow and hard.

I am glad you see your kids each day. I find it hardest that I don’t see them or hear for them for 6 days a fortnight. I will probably have to endure another year or two waiting in the family Court.

I remain hopeful I will get my 5 days up to 7 a fortnight and if I don’t I won’t have consented and some judge will make me.


I imagine this is very hard for you. Hope is tenacious and letting go of your old life is hard.

But I will say my life improved when she left. I hope yours does too.


And you have done your best. It is all you can do.

[Reinventing]

Baxter1, I don't know what to say except the LBS on this site feel pain and injustice at this news. And admiration at your stance.

I guess my only advice is to look at the long view, because it is a years-long experience.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Hi Baxter,

Just warm and gentle hugs. I know it's not easy to move out, I know it may feel injust.... but life will become good on the long run. This is indeed a new chapter beginning.

Alvin

[Treasur]

A lot of us here will recognise the inherent unfairness you might feel as the LBS about the legal judgement of you moving out rather than her. But then no one really ‘wins’ in a divorce, do they? And life is sometimes unfair.

So I hope you can find a way to live with that without it chewing your bones too much. I agree with the others about focusing on the short term and the longer term. I don’t know your financial circumstances, or what you have arranged legally regarding time with your kids, or indeed if Baxter is moving with you, but I’d encourage you to treat moving out as a new chapter for you and them. Squeeze the positive pips out of it as much as you can. Find a place to live that might please you, maybe something a bit different than your old home, somewhere your boys might like to visit and have fun rather than you seeing them in the old family home. It doesn’t have to be forever but it’s a chance to experiment with a different way of living for a year or two. Treat it perhaps as an opportunity to lay down your husband job without laying down your fatherly one?

 Let things go….open your metaphorical hand and pick what to let go, even though some of that might be painful bc it was never your choice. Let your wife experience the ‘solo’ life she claims to want along with its obligations….you may find you need some new rock-solid boundaries bc you won’t be the first husband here that an MLC wife still expects to do husband stuff when life gets a bit hard or tiring.

And I suspect you will be surprised by how much of a toll the last couple of years have taken bc it’s not an easy way to live, is it? Sometimes we don’t realise the real extent of that until we stop living that way…..what it feels like to have a little peace and calm around us. To add things rather than have them taken away, even if that starts with quite small things like what you eat for breakfast or how you use some of your new free time.

[xyzcf]

This is a shock, not at all what you expected and I don't understand the judge's ruling..perhaps it has to do with "no fault" divorces....but you were not the one to commit adultery and leave the home on numerous occasions.

This is your home and you wished to remain there. You were living together in the home and co parenting. I presume that her motion was to have you leave your home so she can continue to live her life comfortably without any disruption.

I also see the loss of seeing your son every day..having him visit you in a new place is not quite the same.....still, as you have unselfishly suggested, the boys will remain in a stable environment for now.

Its 's one thing to be forced into a divorce, quite another to have what is important to you taken away...no consequences at all for the person who is destroying your family.

You will survive this but it is a huge wound on your heart and one that will take some time to adjust to...there are many things, even so many years later that affected my life ...what should have been an easy retirement with plenty of financial resources, instead has me concerned about having enough money to live on as I age and the list goes on......I can "accept" that this happened but I still do not like it.

Quite honestly, my life is not "better" or more wonderful or richer than it was when we were an intact family. It's been really hard to create a new life, to be alone, to deal with everything by myself..although I can and have done so. I am realistic, I can fill my life with all kinds of GAL stuff and I do...but there is an emptiness that nothing has been able to fill.

All of us are different. I've managed to salvage some of what is left of this family. I am grateful for that and the comfort in the contact that we have with one another.

I am very sorry that this has happened to you. What I do know is that we are resilient and most of us do find a way to figure out how to do what we need to do to bring us peace and stability.

Sending big ((((((HUGS)))))))

[Flummoxed]

I'm so sorry to hear about the ruling, Baxter1- it truly is unfair. I do agree with all of the wonderful wisdom shared by the other forum members here. You were not the one to wreak havoc on the family, yet you are the one being asked to leave. I can relate in a way. It is not fair by any means, but perhaps it can be viewed as an opportunity in a sense. And a break away from the chaos directly in front of you can give you room to breathe and regain a bit of your stability and strength. It is certainly not ideal, none of this is by any stretch, but there can be a silver lining in all this. One step at a time in this lovely crisis marathon.

[titleholder]

My heart goes out for you Baxter, you've handled your journey with so much grace! It's not fair, nothing about this journey is fair sadly.
From what I've read I'm sure you're going te make it, you will create a loving and stable home for you and the kids no doubt about it!

Love TH!

[Baxter1]

Thank you all for the support, it means a lot to me that I have people in my corner. Although this is horrible I am trying to find the positives. We’ve had a great 25 years together, 22 years of marriage filled with love and laughs, kids and dogs and vacations and all the other great stuff that goes with that. In addition I’ve been in my home for almost 2 years. That’s 2 years of seeing the kids every day and going to their events and being part of their lives.

I’m not giving up on her at all. She never asked for MLC, sometimes I see the pain and stress in her eyes, no one would ask for this. I guess my stand will continue from a new location, whatever happens I will always have great memories and I will always have a great relationship with the kids. And who knows, maybe someday a renewed relationship with her

[FrenchHusband]

Hi Baxter,

I am sorry for what is happening to you. It is really unfair that you are the one who will leave the home. I am happy for you how well you take the bad news and you still continue to see the positive even in the difficult times.

A house is only a house, what is really important is the people living here. The most important and stable adult for your kids is still Baxter, wherever you happen to live.

[WHY]

Bax I’m sorry to hear this is where you’re at. MLC is a monster.

Just to be clear though.  You don’t have to give her the house.   The law is clear.  If you cannot agree.  It gets sold.  And that’s that.  So you moving out is solely your choice.  And you need to decide if that’s the right thing for you and your children.

If you decided not to move out.  You could easily live there for another two years as the legal system moves are a snails pace.  It would be at least another 6 months before a follow up pre trial.  So you don’t have to be in ANY rush.  Do what’s right for you and your kids.

That said.  I’m not sure that would be the right approach.  Your MLCer will get stuck in the tunnel, continue to blame you for everything under the sun, and things will become worse IMO.  I’m a true believer in KellBell’s approach. The faster you let them go.  The quicker they can move towards the end of MLC.  Now that doesn’t necessarily mean higher recon chances.  BUT, holding your MLCer back does more damage to your relationship IMO which in turn can make coming back from it impossible.   MLCers will say and do some despicable things.  The faster you get out their way the better IMO. And the better the chances of recon in my opinion because of less damage.  I really do believe this.

So.  If you’re still standing, perhaps you moving out at this point is not the worst thing.  Let her wallow and you get completely out her way. It’s not like she can buy you out the house anyway right?  So she can live there while she figures herself out. 

It’s still your house until it’s sold or she buys you out.  You could technically disallow alienators sleeping over.  But again.  I would not do this. It will hold her back and you can’t really enforce this.  so give her the freedom to crash the crazy train and she’ll get through it faster IMO.

Hopefully with you out the house, it will buy you the 2-3 years you need to get through this.  Whereas if you stay in the house.  She definitely will continue to blame you for everything and will have NO CHOICE but to force a sale of the house and D.  Now she has the opportunity to be on her own and hopefully, hopefully self reflect at some point.  She could choose to still blame you for her depression once you’re out and force D.  But then she’ll lose her comfy home. And let’s hope that once you’re completely out of her life that she has no one else to blame but herself.   And starts to look inward.  That seems like a more likely outcome than her forcing a sale of the house on herself. 

The trick is to see if you can stomach it long enough, alienators and all.  You’ve come this far Bax.  I believe you can do this. 

Onward my friend.  You got this.

[Baxter1]

FH- thanks for your kind words, I am trying to be the most stable force for them!

W- Although this sucks me moving out may not be  the worst thing. If for no other reason to let me heal. In addition she will still feel the same way, getting me out of the house will not fill the void in her life. Although I don’t want this it may be what is necessary, if for no other  reason then my own growth. If I don’t heal and become my ‘best self’ then how can I expect to come back to the marriage. We both need to grow and figure ourselves out, if we don’t then it will be the same marriage all over again. We both need to go to our own corners and regroup, then we can heal and then, just maybe, come back to a new stronger marriage.

Time will tell what happens but in the mean time I’m going to just keep going and work on myself and my relationship with the kids. When she’s ready(if ever) then maybe we can work on our marriage.

[Helpnewc]

Dear Baxter,

You seem to be in a good place. I am about 6 months ahead of you and my wife left the house in January as I was not as strong as you and could not stomach caring for my kids while she secretly dated another man.

I think you are the way you are framing it is very wise. I made emotional decisions about our property settlement and did not listen to my lawyers advice. I would have been better off if I did and I would recommend doing so.

That said, my decision has meant my wife is financially secure and owns her home. And like you I think what would I have paid to have those wonderful kids and those memories. Anything.

And I am determined not to become one of those angry men who is gutted by divorce. The reality is that it just means a will work a few more year than I planned and that is not the worst thing in the world.


But it is hard. The loneliness. Being apart from your children and not being able to talk to the person you love. And the irrationalness is head spinning and is hard to reconcile.


But it is amazing what you get used to. And from this point you make good decisions for you, the kids and baxter. And listen to your lawyers advice.

And you are right. I have healed far more since she has left. You will do better to.

[Atari25]

Thank you all for the support, it means a lot to me that I have people in my corner. Although this is horrible I am trying to find the positives. We’ve had a great 25 years together, 22 years of marriage filled with love and laughs, kids and dogs and vacations and all the other great stuff that goes with that. In addition I’ve been in my home for almost 2 years. That’s 2 years of seeing the kids every day and going to their events and being part of their lives.

I’m not giving up on her at all. She never asked for MLC, sometimes I see the pain and stress in her eyes, no one would ask for this. I guess my stand will continue from a new location, whatever happens I will always have great memories and I will always have a great relationship with the kids. And who knows, maybe someday a renewed relationship with her

I love your way of looking at it all - it mirrors my view.

My wife left on her own, I don't think she wanted to but she was unable to cope in the house anymore and she refused to get help.  It's heartbreaking and I think not giving up on her completely is the right thing. Most of our MLCs suffer from childhood trauma they never asked for.

W- Although this sucks me moving out may not be  the worst thing. If for no other reason to let me heal. In addition she will still feel the same way, getting me out of the house will not fill the void in her life. Although I don’t want this it may be what is necessary, if for no other  reason then my own growth. If I don’t heal and become my ‘best self’ then how can I expect to come back to the marriage. We both need to grow and figure ourselves out, if we don’t then it will be the same marriage all over again. We both need to go to our own corners and regroup, then we can heal and then, just maybe, come back to a new stronger marriage.

I thought space would help but as time goes on I think we are further apart than ever. My wife has a whole new life with new friends and relationships. I only know one friend from high school that lives in Chicago that still talks to her. Otherwise it's like she disappeared from all of our friends lives. Kids see her once every 2-3 weeks but it's like meeting a friend for coffee as opposed to seeing mom.

Our kids are with me so maybe it will be different as your kids are with the wife. I hope so for you.

[Flummoxed]

Hi Baxter1, way to pivot that positive perspective! Agreed- this time will be great for your healing and recovery. I will say, at least from my perspective, it’s been harder to remember the MLC context at times since it’s not so clear when you’re not seeing them confused and all over the place right in front of you all the time. However, of course, the focus should be on you and the kids just like you described. You’ve got this!

[Baxter1]

Thank you all for the continued support, I don’t know what I would do without having you here. Having a place to vent and people to bounce ideas off of has really helped in my journey. We’ll see how this plays out, myself and my healing are important so this will help. The kids will still be at home and I’m sure there will always be an excuse to come by.

The new challenge will be to not be a doormat. All the things that I usually do will be left to her, you can’t kick out the husband but still expect him to do the husbandly duties, it will be interesting for sure.

We’re celebrating American Thanksgiving today, should be a nice family day. Last year she took the kids to her sisters house for the day, the journey down the tunnel continues it seems. The high energy antics from last year are slowing down, looks like it’s more of a medium/low energy now, maybe  ‘Splat’ is around the corner, who knows?

Happy Thanksgiving (to those who celebrate)!

[UrsaMajor]

The new challenge will be to not be a doormat. All the things that I usually do will be left to her, you can’t kick out the husband but still expect him to do the husbandly duties, it will be interesting for sure.
<...snip...>

Happy Thanksgiving (to those who celebrate)!

Oh boy. I remember that as well... The day I told MLCxW2 that, no, I was not going to drop everything and come over to help her get her dog in the car because he was sick, that she had fired me from that position of being the ever-ready helper and that she aas just going to have to figure out how to do it herself, that maybe one of her friends (read "enablers/accomplices") could be of assistance but I already had plans and wasn't going to change them..... She went absolutely ballistic, accusing me of not caring about the dog (it was HER dog after all and she didn't do diddly-squat when my dog was sick or anything) and then the one that made me laugh out loud, right in front of her (which infuriated her even more) that I was just "insulted" that she left me. I replied that, insulted or not, I was no longer her husband and no longer obligated to be at her beck and call and that, since one of her many reasons for the D was that she "needed to learn that she could do things herself," that this was the perfect time to begin that and I hoped that doggie was going to be OK, that I would bend over backwards where the kids were concerned but that she now had gotten what she wanted so she could do what was needed herself.

She didn't ask me to help her again after that unless it was directly related to the kids.... But she sure didn't like having to face the consequences of her actions and choices.... No Mid-Lifer ever does.....

[Flummoxed]

I completely second UM’s comment that friends or family (*cough* enablers for sure *cough*) can step in and support. It is absolutely no longer your job. Don’t be afraid to say “No”. Let them see who is actually there for them when help is needed; the reality isn’t so pretty. Fingers crossed for an upcoming splat!

Happy Thanksgiving! Though it’s been a hell of a year, I’m sure there is much to be thankful for.

[LC]

I remember when shortly after MLCer moved out, he texted me complaining that he couldn’t get his work socks and ties organized. I refrained for helping. I texted back and told him I knew he could figure it out. That’s not my job, anymore😄.

[Baxter1]

Thanks for the support. It will definitely be a balancing act, the kids will still be at home so I’ll do my best to maintain boundaries while making sure they are all set. I’m thinking I’ll leave Baxter in charge, I’m sure he’ll take care of everything in my absence.

[Treasur]

Will you be arranging to see the kids away from the house as opposed to ‘visiting’ them there? Do you have your new home set up yet or is that still a work in progress?

And how are your kids doing and how much do they know about changes coming along the line?

[Baxter1]

Kids are doing ok, they know something is going on so telling them won’t be a terrible surprise. As for when to tell them I was going to wait until after the holidays, I don’t want to bring down the holiday spirit.

As for finding a place I’ve been looking online and I’m going to set up some appointments to look at places. If all else fails I can live with my brother who lives about 45 minutes away. Him and his wife have been very supportive and have a spare room if needed.

My plan is to get a place in our town so I can see the kids. I’m going to take them out for dinner, or maybe I can meet S19 in his dorm and allow some space between me and W. It’s going to be an adjustment but I’ll focus on the kids and myself and let her keep going down the tunnel. As much as I don’t want this it might be a good thing.