Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Mimosa on July 07, 2023, 10:22:09 PM
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Hello Everyone. I just need some advice to see what I should do with my Husband’s MLC. Three weeks ago he dropped the bomb and said that He doesn’t want a relationship anymore after 18 years.. He was going to wait till our kids are in college before he was going to tell me that he wanted a divorce. But I asked him what was really going on as he was distant with me the past couple of months. He said that he felt stuck since the beginning and that we got together for the wrong reasons. That all of a sudden he can’t forget all the things i’ve done in the past, etc etc. He said it was all the “small things” that he can’t forget. He also said that now is the time to start doing things that he wasn’t able to do before and wants to start thinking about his own future. And now he just leaves the house without telling anyone, comes
Home really late at night and he hardly talks to our kids and myself. But there are times he still gives me a hug, or a kiss and sometimes he just ignores me. He keeps saying that we’re not in a relationship anymore.. but never brings out the word divorce. He says he loves me but not “in love” with me. I don’t know what to do anymore. Should I let him go or will he eventually come back to us? How long will this take? How about you guys? How did you handle your spouse’s MLC? Thanks :)
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Others will come along with a longer welcome than mine. I just want to say I am sorry you are experiencing the script that we also received. Everything he said has been said most other people in a MLC.
It is not you or your marriage. It is him going through a crisis in his life. You can't fix it or fix him.
He may begin lengthening the time that there were "problems" from 2 years to 10 years to even when he met you. The list of reasons he is unhappy--things you did or didnt do--can also change and expand. It is not based on reality.
He fell out of love with himself and is seeking a reason to explain that and has landed on the problem being external to himself, namely you and the marriage.
This is hard to hear, but he is likely in a relationship with someone else or will be soon. The reason they usually have an affair, buy a new car, try on a new persona, live like a teenager, etc, etc is to increase their dopamine levels. It is a temporary high, but it takes time for them to realize that.
This is a good, compassionate group. You're not going crazy. We've been there ourselves.
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Well, that all sounds very typical script. I’m so sorry.
You should prepare yourself that there almost certainly is an ow (or women). I’m so sorry for that too.
In his head he has mentally divorced you if that makes sense. Very common for MLCers bc paperwork, honesty and practical consequences are all rather tediously adult for them. Sorry. Plus tbh a ‘not divorce’ is not the same as an ‘active marriage’ is it? I suspect you know that but right now bc it is so overwhelming you may be in a bit of a fight/flight/freeze reaction which is pretty normal too.
So, what should you do? Well, that is for you to decide and we’ll support you in whatever healthy choices you make. It’s very early days for you so I suspect, like most of us, you are struggling to think your way out of a paper bag, right? Different LBS have differences in their situations - age of kids, finances, housing, work, family support, vulnerability to abuse, health issues - which can make a difference to what is possible, sensible or necessary.
My two best pieces of advice fwiw?
Seek legal advice right now - you don’t have to act on it but knowing where you stand and what you might need to do to protect everything that matters most to you bar your marriage might help you down the line.
Start getting very clear about what IS in your control and what is not. And what is happening right now vs what might or might not happen in the future. Invest the majority of your mental and physical energy, such as it is, on things that ARE in your control (no matter how small) and on current present realities rather than the past or future. And that includes prioritising your own mental and physical health - sleep, food, exercise, maybe an IC to help manage your emotional wellbeing - bc most of us take a lot of damage on those things post BD and your kids need one stable, healthy, active parent.
So, can you decide to ‘let him go’ if you wish - although what does that mean to you practically speaking? - yes. Can you ask him to leave? Yes. Can you make him do so? Deoends on the law where you live. Will he come back to you and his family? That’s an unknown. Will you want him back in the future after all the damage he is causing and will cause? That’s an unknown too. What we can say is two things….neither of them perhaps what you want to hear….if this is an MLC, you’re looking at years not months and it usually gets much worse before it gets any better. And if this is an MLC, it’s about his issues, not you or your marriage - the good news is that means you didn’t cause it and there is most likely nothing horribly wrong with you as a wife, woman or person; the bad news is that neither you or your marriage caused it, so neither you or marital solutions can fix it.
What do you think is the best thing to do for you and your kids as a next step? What are you most concerned about in any next steps you might take in how you respond or adapt to what’s currently happening? Do you have a network of support for you and the kids where you live? Can you support yourself financially and keep a roof over your head if you need to?
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Pizza,
Sorry you’re here but it’s good that you found this site. There are plenty of resources and links here that explain what is going on with your MLCer. I’m a newbie to this club too and I have found this site invaluable, you can come on here and bounce ideas off the group and get advice as to what is going on and what to do. I got the ILYB speech and have a stay at home MLCer who goes out constantly, sometimes I get a heads up as to when and where, sometimes I wake up and her car is gone and she’s home hours later. Each one is different but the common denominator is the pain left in their wake. Good luck on your journey, we have all been there and feel your pain
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I would find out if he has OW because in my case, I would no longer stand if there was a PA.
So before raking yourself over the coals and enduring daily mental torture to stand. Figure out under what circumstances you’re willing to stand. And if those circumstances exist, or not.
I’m very sorry you’re going though this. But please prepare yourself. He more than likely has OW.
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I’m so sorry you are here. But as others have said it all sounds like text hool MLC words and behaviors.
Should I let him go or will he eventually come back to us?
no one can tell you that. Not even him. If you can ( I was not able to so soon) detach from him and ignore his behavior. I personally would not accept hugs and kisses from someone telling me that they don’t love me or want to be with me. Show him you accept his decision but those decisions have consequences. Be kind, but only friendly and matching his behavior. I found this group way to far in for me and I was already trauma bonded and cycling. Read, read, read!!!! All the journalling here as it will help you understand what is happening.
How long will this take? How about you guys? How did you handle your spouse’s MLC?
it may never end. That is up to him and how he faces his crisis. Get legal advise. If he seems completely off the rails you can present him with a separation agreement or divorce agreement. I divorced my xh right away. After 30 years. He agreed to everything I asked for and although it went against everything believed in, it secured my future and saved a large portion of what we accrued. If I had waited I know now OW would have been in his ear to much for him to care about my needs
Keep journalling. This sight will be a life saver to you when you feel like your lost and alone.
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Hi Mimosa,
Welcome to the forum but so sorry that you're here. I agree with the above. Please prepare yourself for the real possibility that there is an OW, if not physically then most likely emotionally. It is a horrible thing to go through and I hope you're taking good care of yourself at this time. Most MLCers have some type of affair as they use it as an escape.
At this time he will most likely be unable to care for you in any way so just be ready. They are pretty selfish beings. I would get a consultation with a lawyer (usually free) just to see where you stand. You don't have to hire anyone at this point, but please make sure that financially you will be protected. Some MLCers can do a lot of damage in that way.
I know some people feel differently, but for me, I wanted my H out of the house as soon as I learned about his EA. I told him I wouldn't stand in the way of him and his "soul mate". I helped him find an apartment (because I wanted him out asap). I only spoke to him through something called smart contact which means no relationship talk-- we only spoke about our child and business. (Check out Marriage Helpers- Smart Contact) Other than that, I was brief and pleasant. They don't seem to care about your feelings during this and you can expect a lot of heartbreak from his behavior.
If it's seems that I took this all in stride--I didn't. However I made sure not to "show my face" to my H but I cried rivers and rivers privately. I wondered who this cold person was. Anyway, I just let him play it out (you really don't have much of a choice) and did what I could to keep myself active and busy. My H did want to come back after about 5 months (so this might have been more of a transition than a crisis or it's possible I could get a BD again down the line) But we did reconcile, and I let him come home about 2 months after he asked. Truthfully reconciliation has its own set of issues as a trust broken is hard to repair and does a lot of damage. But hopefully you will be the one to decide yes or no down the line.
I wish you all the best during this journey. Keep posting as the people here are so wonderful and will support you during this time. I've made some fantastic forum friends and I'm very grateful.
B
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I just have a quick question.. is it better to completely ignore my H or still try and do small talks with him? He is a at home boomerang. Most of time he is the one that initiates the conversation about his work, about my day, and the kids and there are times he doesn’t say anything. We still both live in the same house so it’s hard to not have a conversation but it is always him that starts it. Like before he would totally ignore me but lately he will see me and asks how my day was or he’ll start talking about work. But he still goes out and does whatever / whenever he wants and comes home really late. Then he’ll tell me about the things he did while he was out. I am so confused I don’t know if I should just ignore him and minimize what I share with him? I don’t know.. any advice for me about this situation? Thanks
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Maybe someone else can chime in but I think you can talk to him if he initiates. My W was silent and ignored me for months. She coming around now and I love it. It may or may not last though. Maybe Google ‘smart contact’ from marriage helper(on YouTube). Basically you let him steer the conversation, no begging/pleading that kinda thing. Good luck!
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I really don't think there is any benefit in not responding to him. The most important thing is how does it make you feel and what impact does it have on your peace of mind.
Since this is all so very recent, one of the hard things is not to ask questions or discuss the relationship. Avoiding this is probably a wise idea....experience from many others here have found it not to be helpful to question them at this point.
I think that if it is possible, then answering his comments to you is not a bad thing.
I believe that ignoring him or not responding back is a kind of "punitive" thing and does nothing to keep any type of communication open.
Everyone is different and some people do not ever want to talk to their spouse again.
It depends what feels right for you...trust your gut.
My therapist spoke to me about my concerns about having contact with him that I could decide and change my mind from one day to the next. Nothing is carved in stone and I have always felt it better to answer him back. It's all totally superficial and meaningless but I felt it was better for our family to be able to be in the same room together and have a conversation, interact with our daughter and son in law. She finds this better for her as well.
I am going to link your previous thread and this one together. We ask posters to stay on the same thread for 150 posts. This makes it easier for others to follow along with your story and is better for the running of the forum. You can always change the title of your new comments if you wish.
Here is the place where you can find RCR's articles with many topics covered about how to deal with the MLCer.
https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html
These articles reflect upon the various contact levels
https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels.html
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Mirror him and respond in kind. Don’t initiate.
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I also agree with mirroring what he is initiating. Also, just watch how he is reacting on your convos. He may start a relationship talk, yet not really want one. If you see him pulling back switch topics or pull back as well. Try to just keep conversations light and try to stay away from any talks that bring stress. Try to be a safe place, but that also does not mean be a doormat.
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Imho the key phrase in your question is the
is it better to…..
Why?
Bc, I think, implied in that phrase is that you currently think that there is a right/wrong way to behave towards him that will change his behaviour and restore your marriage now that you have found out about MLC? As if there is a kind of pass/fail test. If so, you’re not alone in that - most of us thought that when we first came here.
Sadly, that is rarely how it turns out to work. Sorry.
Imho it’s a bit more like a cancer diagnosis.
A bit of you can’t quite believe it. You really want it not to be true even while another bit of your brain knows that it is actually happening and it’s a big life altering thing. But you don’t know yet how bad it will get, if you will survive it, what it’s going to be like to deal with, which advice to trust, who to tell, what help you might need or quite what is the best thing to do next.
Still, ‘is it better to…?’ is nevertheless a useful phrase and one that most LBS keep on redial.
What changes is the focus, the object of the question.
From anything to do with your spouse to ‘is it better to….for me right now?’ and ‘is it better to….for my kids right now?’ and ‘is it better to….for my sanity/safety….for keeping the roof over our heads….for approaching my legal obligations….for protecting our finances?’
As others here have said, there probably are things we LBS can do to make the situation worse. Set fire to their car. Flame ow on social media. Ask our spouse a million questions while holding on to their leg sobbing. Accept or excuse serious physical or emotional abuse. Behave like a deranged stalker. Stick our head in the sand and pretend that nothing untoward or abnormal is going on. Tell everyone we have ever met. Tell no one at all bc we feel ashamed or are trying to ‘protect’ our spouse from other peoples’ opinions. Believe that if we are just more/less (fill in the relevant word) this will all be magically fixed. Although most of us have had moments when we have felt like doing most of these things a bit :)
There is no pass/fail test to fix your spouse/marriage. No magic MLC tactics handbook. Sorry.
This is something awful which is happening to you and around you, not because of you.
Once we LBS get that, that is what changes the question imho.
And the answers to ‘is it better to…for me/my kids/my situation? is a personal one. What works for one LBS here might not work so well for another bc we are different people and our individual circumstances vary.
But
What always works for an LBS is to reach the point where they can change the question to being about them not their spouse.
And when they understand that what is better at the moment might also change with time and events, and that’s ok too.
So, going back to your question, Mimosa (nice name by the way), what do you think is going to be better for you at the moment in how you do or don’t interact with him and about what? And for your kids? And for your own emotional and mental and physical wellbeing?
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How do you feel about this 'small talk'? Are you comfortable with it or does it irritate you or upset you? I know I would feel angry if my H was acting like all was fine, just after demolishing me and up-ending our shared life. It seems like, based on what you have written, that he is wants to enjoy the comfortable status quo of your home while conducting his new magic happy adventures. But what impact does this have on your well-being? Our home is our haven, but he has smashed up the fences of your life. In the early days, it is typical for us, the non-MLC, to feel like we have lost our compass, kind of set adrift and we feel unsafe in general. So a safe space at home (physical and emotionally) is super important. You don't say if your kids are at home, but it seems they are and that you are the stable force looking after them while he goes out. But what if you want to go out?
What was really important for me in the early days was to reestablish some sort of routine - a mix of things that I enjoyed (seeing friends, going for a run etc) and things that were health related (seeing my therapist, yoga). It's called 'get a life' on the forum. I thought about it more as restructuring my life, because I imagined GAL as something new (like joining a chorus line, kicking my legs up in gay abandon :) ) but I actually already had a rich life, full of things I love. I just needed to reshape my life without my H in it. This is a long-winded answer to 'what is better', isn't it? ;D My feeling is, ignoring someone is very hard and feels painful. So, yes, mirror - ish, and then, if needed, you could introduce a topic. Like ' you know, my day was good, but I am feeling a little stir crazy this week and have been invited out this Friday, so assume it's OK if you watch the kids'.
In the early days, I felt like a cork bobbing around in the ocean. I needed my own anchors, this was the restructure. Work at your own pace, you'll get to a point where you start to see more clearly and trust yourself again.
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I feel anxious when he talks to me sometimes because I don’t know if I am saying the right words. There are Days where he’ll talk to me like before.. excitement about his day or he’ll call me to vent from stress at work.. there are days he won’t answer my calls or texts. I try not to talk about our relationship at all but sometimes it comes up and my anxiety goes up 😔 I am currently on stress leave and taking a couple days off for myself.. Thank God my kids understand that I need this to Clear my head and start accepting the fact that he was abducted by aliens. I have to find that switch in my heart to stop hoping that he’ll come back soon.
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The anxiety comes from deep within. The person we knew intimately is gone. We sense this on a level beyond what we are seeing and hearing and our bodies go into fight flight freeze mode.
I feel anxious when he talks to me sometimes because I don’t know if I am saying the right words.
There was never in the 35 years we were together that I had any problem saying anything to him. I never hesitated to share with him my thoughts and feelings, to disagree with his view....there just never was this feeling of dread...it was a very difficult adjustment. The man who was my best friend, who shared our lives together was a stranger and as one friend recently told me "you were terrified of him".
I found journalling my thoughts and what I would like to have said to him helpful and long long walks.
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I have started journaling and just started to GAL. I need to do this for myself.. i have to get used to do things without him. 18 years together so it’s pretty hard to adjust/do certain
Things because we relied so much from each other. I am slowly (i think) accepting the situation that we are in. I realized I have to start taking care of myself and how I forgot that I am a strong woman. And little bit of help goes a long way. From finding this forum, friends, family.
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I agree with xyzcf….just 20 odd years for me…but never had that eggshell feeling before BD. Dread, just as xyz said. It’s a pretty weird feeling, isn’t it? It is such early days for you and understandable that some of our advice might not feel do-able yet. It took most of us months. At least. So you are doing pretty well imho. :)
We ‘oldies but goodies’ here just hope that sharing what we learned with the gift of hindsight will stop just one other LBS, posting or silently reading, from making the same mistakes we made that added to the amount of damage we allowed to creep in under our own water lines.
What would you do differently if there were no ‘right words’ to be found, my friend?
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i have to get used to do things without him. 18 years together so it’s pretty hard to adjust/do certain
Things because we relied so much from each other. I am slowly (i think) accepting the situation that we are in. I realized I have to start taking care of myself and how I forgot that I am a strong woman
30 years for me. It is like a death. You literally go through grieving. Just know that it is normal. Life stands still for a while until you can get a handle on the hard acceptance. In the mean time life around you continues as normal. That alone is unsettling. Grocery shopping and not picking up those basics just for them or cooking in general. I think it was a year before I could cook his favorite meal again.
The best is when you can view it for what it is. Stop romanticizing the new relationship ( if there is one) because believe me you got the better man. Also, as in death. We don’t look at the bad. We tend to put them on a bit of a pedestal. Once you can step back you will see you may have put up with more than you realized. For me … the avoidant personality wasn’t that he was such and amazing man, but that he just kept his grievances in his head. When you see it all that is when you truly get your power back. You will know it and feel it and you will embrace the woman that you never knew was lost.
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Okay.. I have a huge problem. 😩 no judgement, please. I have been doing the No contact for 2 weeks now.. it was going great. I was starting to feel good about myself, not caring wjere he goes anymore or if he’s coming home, Doing GAL. Starting to get clarity and starting to take care of myself. We still live in the same house and he sleeps in our garage. Until last night, he came to my bedroom and started cuddling and then something happened.. i got caught in the moment. 😩😩😩 But I made sure today that I still hardly made contact with him. I And I made sure I wasn’t showing any emotions. I still left our house and went for my daily walk. And when I got back he left as well. Have I messed up my No Contact? Is there a way I can fix it? What was his purpose of being intimate with me?
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I think you are about 5 weeks post BD.
It is not uncommon to be intimate even after BD. There is this whole need to connect, to bond, a sexual urge that maybe this will bring us back together again.
He is still your husband.
Have I messed up my No Contact? Is there a way I can fix it? What was his purpose of being intimate with me?
You have not messed up anything Mimosa. You succumbed to a very basic human need with your husband. As long as he didn't force you, there is nothing wrong with that.
He is in a crisis. There isn't a "purpose" for why he was intimate with you and that why it is very confusing in the first weeks and months to separate....
It does leave us feeling unsettled, unbalanced...so glad that you seemed to have recovered quickly.
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Thanks!! I really thought I messed it up! after what happened I was afraid I was gonna spiral back down from how I was after the BD..that I was always crying, a mess, desperate, hoping and expecting that we will get back together right away. But No, I didn’t cry, I didn’t mention anything about our relationship, My initial thought was. “Huh, so that happened”! 😂 I think? I am starting to detach myself from Him.. which is good!! I am slowly starting to focus on myself more and more everyday. 🥰 I hope I can keep this up!
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Thanks!! I really thought I messed it up! after what happened I was afraid I was gonna spiral back down from how I was after the BD..that I was always crying, a mess, desperate, hoping and expecting that we will get back together right away.
In the future, there is nothing “unusual” about crying or being a mess. Most of us spend a very long time finding peace and calmness. It is a huge trauma and requires much time…..but we heal.
It is not how we wish to feel but often we cannot prevent those overwhelming emotions from taking over.
Actually crying is the body’s way to release “ pain” so I would not be concerned about it.
There is a lot of going back and forth in the MLCer’s head initially, they don’t understand their feelings from one day to the next and if you ask them, they cannot answer with any type of reasonable response.
One word of caution which is rather difficult , if your husband is having sex with another person, then you have to take precautions not to get a STD,. I honestly do not know how I would have handled that, even though I had worked as a sexual health nurse…I just could not imagine having to have that discussion with him but we were never intimate so I did not have to face the reality.
Take care of yourself and your needs first.
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I thought of that too, that’s why next time if he initiates, I have to say No for me. I am trying hard to do the No contact I have to stay on track with that for me. For my own healing. I would rather not see him or talk to him. And then I had a good cry yesterday.. I thought I was fine.. until I cried for 2 hours while driving home.. Its just some things are hard to forget, for example, I did something very important yesterday and usually he would be with me for something like that.. but as I was driving home I bawled.. because I was driving by myself and thinking he was supposed to be with me and he wasn’t.. It is soooo heartbreaking. I can’t kick him out of our house because financially, we will both be doomed.I still have those days where I’m hoping that he would “snap out of it right now” that brings me back to where I started and seeing him all the time doesn’t make it easy for me. BUT, I have made progress for myself.. i am actually doing GAL. Going for a coffee with friends, meeting up for lunch. For a while I didnt want to do anything at ALL. At least there’s progress. I don’t ask or wonder where he goes now.. it doesnt bother me as much. I never initiate conversations. H always starts it.. slow but surely progress.
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For my own healing. I would rather not see him or talk to him.
So very hard to do since you are still living in the same home. You are going out with friends and getting away from him so that is good.
I thought I was fine.. until I cried for 2 hours while driving home.
One of the things I did was volunteer at a food bank...stacking shelves was mindless and I could keep it together. But I would cry all the way driving there and all the way driving home. I never thought there could be so many tears to shed......although I know that crying is a good way to deal with pain, it was exhausting.
I never initiate conversations. H always starts it.. slow but surely progress.
Definite progress Mimosa! It's such a bizarre way to live....not to freely talk to them about whatever as we did for such a long time. It is like a switch went off inside of them when it comes to treating us with kindness or caring........their lack of empathy...at least for me was so hard for me to get my mind around. I often thought, ok, if he wanted out of the marriage, there were ways to have done so that would have been more "reasonable" and would have allowed me to resolve the ending of our marriage without all the confusion and to this day, he doesn't acknowledge or offer any words to explain......
and then I go back to the realization, this was never about me, it was never about our marriage and healthy adults do not act this way.
The tears will become less frequent until a time when they cease....sadness may remain and certain dates can still cause me to reflect on what was and "de-stabilize" me a bit......that's ok for there is so very much shattered by their abandonment, rejection and betrayal and scars do remain...at least for me they do.
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My H was a stay at homer but had an affair for 3.5 yrs of that.
There's lots I have posted about - you are welcome to read all 25 threads!!
Maybe something in there will resonate with you and help you.
You're getting lots of good advice. My main advice - is look after yourself first. Don't feel guilty - just be kind to yourself and allow yourself to yo yo - it's normal.
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Thanks.. I am trying day by day..I still cry most days because I think about our good times and makes me miss my H so much. It just hurts so much. But I don’t show him any of my sadness when he sees me.. I just ignore him most of the time or H will initiate the conversation. And I will just keep talking like we’re friends.. it is so hard. 😩😩😩 I will check out your threads!!! 😊
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Hi, Mimosa. Love the name. I am catching up on your thread. What you are going through now sounds so much like the beginning of how things went for me, except 1 1/2 years ago my H stated I did not love him, and I needed to change the way I did things because I behaved more as a roommate than a loving partner. He was very upset with me for not appreciating his 10 years of hard work becoming a better man. Please note his better man journey was 10 years of leaving me at home to do everything while he pursued his “giving to the community and under served kids through soccer- he was a ref, a coach, joined the board, became assistant district manager, elite coach, started his own Club, etc.” Everyone thought he was so wonderful and caring, a real hero. At home with me, he was of course different. Highly critical, impatient, demanding, jealous, accusatory, suspicious. I was happier when he was out being wonderful, and I could have peace. Lonely became alone. Independence and holding down the fort was my solace. My kids kept me busy, and there were good times sprinkled in there with H, so I just accepted it as a normal part of a long relationship.
The pandemic stopped all that out conquering the worl, slaying dragons, doing the good work for H. He was stuck at home facing the reality that both myself and our youngest were so very independent, aka not needing him. He started trying to connect with us. He wanted to be involved in our decisions, he wanted us to run things by him, he wanted in on something he had for the most part turned a blind eye to. My son and I made some efforts, both in our own ways, but it wasn’t what he was needing or looking for. He wanted his hero status back, and we were the only ones around he could try to get it from. He monstered at this stage, and love bombed. He wanted intimacy, needed intimacy, and I wasn’t giving enough in his mind. It’s hard to want a monster to touch you. He never could wrap his head around that.
As the world opened back up, he jumped at the chance to go out more, and I wasn’t invited. Taking me out anywhere had always been difficult for him because I always received attention, attention I didn’t ask for, but nonetheless always happened. Sure, being hit on, depending on where we went, but also attention from group friends, too. Hard to be a hero if someone else is shining a bit, I guess. I’m trying to paint the picture of how I now understand his resentment built up towards me over time. I thought I was being a good wife, and supporting him. He saw differently.
Cold detachment came next. He also started injecting Testosterone at this time, 1.5 years ago. Mini BD’s, I’m not happy in our marriage, you don’t love me”..etc, etc. I don’t know why I thought he’d figure it out, that I was loving and supportive if enough time passed. He started looking to prove I didn’t love him, picking fights, and the like. Lots of blame and shame he dumped on me. Blame for being too independent, blame for hiding things from him, blame for finishing the things he left half done. He said he wanted a Divorce, but opted to just spend most waking hours out partying instead. He didn’t tell me where or who, he wouldn’t text to say he wasn’t coming home. He stopped talking to me much at all. Concerts, trips, party party, no explanations given for his behavior, except that I didn’t love him enough.
Fast forward to BD last February. He couldn’t trust me, I had let him down in every way. He had been forced to have an EA because of me. He had found a house to rent, and he was leaving because he wasn’t going to stay miserable, like he had been so miserable the last 25 years with me.
I am sharing this because, like others pointed out, things are just getting started. Your H is currently at home. Mine was for a year before he up and left. If you read my thread you can gain insight into some of the real triggers for his MLC. They have nothing to do with me, or our marriage. He keeps trying to fix himself from the outside in, and can’t figure out why it isn’t working. He never gets to the IN part of any real healing. He is being much nicer to me now, though. He has stopped outwardly blaming me for everything. Outward isn’t inward, but I’ll take the respite.
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RP - if he is juicing, better to have him out of the house and away from you and your son regardless. "'roid rage" is real.... Let him rage on OW and Co.....
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Agree with the others that you should be clear-eyed and kind to yourself that it is very early days and so it is understandably hard to see which way is up at times. We get it. For most LBS, with time and events, our thoughts and feelings move around and evolve. Sometimes in ways that surprise us.
Well done on all the positive self care things you are doing bc it is not easy at all when you feel as if one tornado just blew down your house and part of you is waiting for the next one.
I am trying hard to do the No contact I have to stay on track with that for me. For my own healing. I would rather not see him or talk to him.
Imho part of seeing which way is up is to be as accurate and honest with ourselves about the language we use and how it affects our actions and expectations.
No Contact is not a magic fix. It is not what works for everyone. It is not a tool to restore your marriage or influence your h’s behaviour. Plus, of course, it is not the reality if you are still under the same roof - unless you live in a huge mansion with an east wing lol.
So in your situation, I would drop the phrase. It isn’t what is happening. It’s perhaps an unfair goal to hold yourself to in the current circumstances. What you seem to be aiming for instead right now is perhaps Less Contact? And trying to emotionally detach how you feel about your day/life/future from anything your h says or does. Which I imagine is pretty hard to do under the same roof.
At the same time, I would encourage you to listen to your own instinct that you feel your own healing requires less interaction with him. That’s fine and entirely reasonable - well to anyone but an MLCer who lives in a garage ::) Get specific with yourself….what does that look like to you in the current situation?
He keeps saying that we’re not in a relationship anymore.. but never brings out the word divorce.
You wrote this on your first post, and I’m going to encourage you to take what he says at face value as current reality. Not to believe any of his BS about why or any of his opinions about you or your marriage, but to operate on the principle that he has in a sense divorced you in his head. Which is nuts, I know….but in his MLC world, that means he thinks of himself as now having all the freedoms of being not married and none of the obligations of being a husband or probably parent.
Take him at his word. Stop any wifely behaviour. Do not try to protect him in any way from the pretty predictable consequences of getting what he wants. But protect yourself….and that includes deciding if having a husband in name only lurking in the garage for months/years feels do-able to you or not.
I see what you wrote about living separately bringing financial disaster for both of you. Unfortunately that is pretty common as a fallout effect from what your h is doing and a lot of LBS here have lived through it. You can’t prevent some of it sadly….but you can take action and gather information to protect yourself the best you can. Practically speaking - and I know this is a tough message - MLCers usually create financial havoc post BD and the consequences don’t seem to matter much to them. They seem to think they can do a kind of virtual divorce in their head, and live however they want without adult obligations or consequences. They rarely contribute equally to shared costs post BD and most situations here will unfortunately end up in either financial/legal separation or divorce.
It depends on individual circumstances, of course, but protecting ourselves in the longer term often requires thinking the unthinkable and taking back some level of control rather than waiting for the MLCer to put a more grown up plan in action. Or indeed have a plan lol. It seems bizarre I know, but humans tend to do things repeatedly or consistently bc in some way it works for us. So your h finds living in the garage post BD an ok enough solution at the moment….but newsflash lol, not everything in life is just about what he wants, is it? It is ok and reasonable for you to look at the situation and decide that it isn’t ok enough for you as a way to live. Or that it is….until it isn’t. Either way, I’d encourage you to get legal advice where you live on your options and obligations, even if you are not ready to act on them. I’d encourage you - and it can help to create less contact - to separate your joint financial and domestic arrangements as much as you can. Partly to protect yourself from further damage. Partly to unhook the practicalities of your life from anything that is dependent or affected by his emotions, priorities or actions. Everything from cars to laundry to groceries to credit cards. And to start considering what your options might be if you had to create a life without any financial contribution from him….short term solutions, longer term possibilities.
I wrote on someone else’s thread that MLCers often behave a bit like unhinged teenagers, and that it’s usually a costly mistake to let a teenager be in charge of your own life ship :)
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Hi Mimosa,
I like your alias, same word in French for this nice flower.
I went NC few months after BD : I was desperate for quick solutions and it was a solution promoted by forums or seduction coaches as a magic tool for self fix and "ex recovery". I was a bit reluctant for this solution because W was at home, so I used ski holidays to implement it.
For my case, NC was a disaster : W blamed me for that, after this she did not allow me to kiss her and touch her (so increase of distance). And it did not help me to detach : I found progressively detachment and internal peace even with a W at home.
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I would say that anything that is done to try and change their behavior is unlikely to succeed. We only have control over our behavior.
Doing things, including less, smart, or no contact for the LBS own stabilization, healing, and sanity is a different thing and each person figures out what they need in order to heal. And it can change over time and circumstances.
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Yes.. It is better for me for sure if I have less or no contact with him. Because everytime I see him, I get anxiety. Plus it is a way for me to get used to him not being in the picture. Sometimes he’s not home for days that I am able to focus in myself and my children. It is true that it is impossible to do the NC especially still living under one roof and having children. I just text him when something important comes up. There are still times when we see each other So I just try and avoid him. I am going to see a therapist this week to help me with my anxiety and help dealing with my H. I have my good and bad days.. what is hard for me right now is thinking about the good memories and I just lose it. I have been better at GAL. I go out more with friends, doing more fun things with the kiddos.
Treasur- Thanks for the advice!! He is definitely acting like a teenager right now. I just take it day by day. And when I do see him, I just pretend he’s a roommate right now. Even though it is so hard!! I usually have a good cry after I see him. Before I kicked him out of our bedroom, he was still really nice to me. Then I asked him to move in our garage. Then he def started treating me like crap. because he didn’t get what he wanted. Saying horrible things and doing things that he knows would upset me. At first, I was really affected by it. Until i’m slowly starting to realize it’s not my fault. It is not easy for sure, i still have really bad days. And I spiral back down. But almost no contact is helping me for sure.. It is giving me clarity. and it is always him that initiates conversations not me. He has calmed down a tiny bit but still goes and leaves out house for hours/ days. I am starting to get better at not hoping that everytime he’s nice to me that his MLC is over.. It used to crush me everytime..
French Husband- Thanks!! I like that name too!! My NC/ Less contact with him is hard. We still have to talk about our responsiblities so I would rather just text him. And when I see him, he always initiates the conversation and I just pretend he’s a roommate right now. it’s hard. But if I don’t talk to him for days he texts me and asks me how I’m doing or if I break my daily routine he texts me and asks where I am. I don’t know what to think of it sometimes..
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Wow, just wow, Mimosa. The texts wanting to know where you are, I really wish I understood what motivates them to think they have the right? My H does this as well. He is out doing whatever he wants whenever he wants, but if I go across the street to a local bar all of my coworkers hang out at, I receive a text, insisting/pleading that I be careful.. He has turned off his location (he set up the family location on all of our phones years ago), but watches my location. And I know he has been reading both my and my son’s texts. Every so often he gives himself away by knowing something about a conversation he shouldn’t be privy to. It’s almost always about a purchase I helped either of my kids with. He demands to know why I’m helping them. The answer is always the same. Because they asked for my help, and they are paying me back. They always do. My kids are very responsible that way. I think it triggers his ego that they don’t go to him, but he was always out and about, not accessible for so many years, it doesn’t even cross their minds to ask him.
They expect full autonomy and their freedom. The refuse to “grant” us ours. It’s ridiculous, really. Yes, I understand I could just turn off the location sharing, but he’d just find another way, and I’m sure it would be even more invasive so I haven’t bothered. I understand fully that I have no expectations of privacy in my texts, and leave any and all information about my H out of them completely. This will all be sorted at a later date, but for now, because I know he is irrational, it’s safer to just let him feel like he has some kind of control in the situation.
I am glad that your abridged version of NC is helping you find some peace, and allowing you to trust yourself again. That’s one of the biggest gifts I have received so far from going through all of this. I trust my own judgement again. My perceptions of how things are, well, they actually are closer to the truth. My memory is far superior and intact, and I no longer second guess my version of events. H can’t even remember who bought him his new pair of pants. He thought I did. He just showed up one day wearing them, and then 2 months later asked if I could find him another pair because he likes them so much. Dude, that wasn’t me. Lol.
Take care!
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Right? What gives them the right!!! Lol Last night he said he would be home but when I came home he was gone. He has this backpack that he brings sometimes with clothes and I know if he brings that backpack, that means he won’t come home. I don’t even want to know where he goes..or what he does with his time. Me being very upset, I messaged one of my BFFs and asked if I could come over for bit and ended up staying at her house till 4 am. I messaged him prior this and asked if he was coming home. No reply. So i left. Then he messages me back this am and says.. “You were out till 4 so what difference does it make if I come home or not” i was like W. T. F. 😂😂😂 is he for real? Then 10 mins later he asks me if I was working tonight because he was thinking of helping me with garden stuff and having a bbq afterwards.. like talking about trying to take control of your life and playing with your emotions!!! I have learned that I will just treat him like a roommate and not fall for his BS. Before I would actually believe him, he will be nice to me for a couple of days, Me thinking he might be coming back to us then he leaves and won’t come for a few days.. And I would spiral back down. It is so hard dealing with him. He def knows how to play with my emotions.
I take it day by day. I never initiate conversations unless it’s very important. I would rather him not be here at our house because I feel more at ease. And it’s a way of me getting used to him not around me and our teenagers. When he’s around my anxiety goes up and I don’t know what to do or say. He always gaslights me and blames me for what is going on. At first I believed him. And now, I just laugh and shake my head at what he tells me.
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He always gaslights me and blames me for what is going on. At first I believed him. And now, I just laugh and shake my head at what he tells me.
That is the best that you can do is to just laugh at their nonsense and walk away.
There is a saying here that, when dealing with a Mid-Lifer, believe NONTHING of what you hear and only 50% of what you see until the behaviour is consistent & repetitive.
Also known as
Q: "How do you know when a Mid-Lifer is lying or gaslighting?"
A: "Their lips are moving and sound is coming out."
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Wow, can’t imagine. Mine wants me to check on him ( which I wont now) but I don't think he cares what me or his kids or grandson are doing. He has isolated himself in a bubble. Not sure how I would handle that situation.
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Ooooof, that backpack, Mimosa. I know it well. Wonder if they shopped at the same place? Ooooohhhhh, shooot. Money making idea. We need to start an e-commerce store selling backpacks for MLC’ers. Fun logos and sayings like, “I should be home with my wife, but I’m a s**tshow”, or “I party hard because I’m empty inside” or, “Manchild seeking I have no idea what”.
In the meantime, we support MadLuv’s new thread. “MadLuv’s Dream Car cuz my XH is a Dumbass”. Brought to you by OW’s Mercedes.
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Phoenixrising- That made me LOL!! We def should!! 😂😂😂 it would be a good business!!!
Madluv- yeah it sucks.. I just go out with friends, he texts me within the hour and asks where I am because all
Of a sudden “he wants to switch cars with me” or he says sweet things and If I don’t reply, he gets mad!!! He’s too controlling even though he’s the one that “ended our marriage”.. I don’t get him.. but he can leave and not go home for days.. SMH
Ursamajor- yeah.. the things that he says are ridiculous!!! It’s sad actually.. so I usually just ignore him now.
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Mimosa- that is something
Phoenix- hahahahha. In the meantime, we support MadLuv’s new thread. “MadLuv’s Dream Car cuz my XH is a Dumbass”. Brought to you by OW’s Mercedes.
hilarious!!
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Hello Everyone! I Need some advice of how to approach our situation this time. This is a little long so bear with me. Lol
So my H came back home after he moved out for a month and a half.
A few weeks before he came home, he has been texting me everyday and even apologized for the way he has been talking to me. He even asked if our kids and I would want to go on a trip with him, I asked our kids first and they said Yes. And we went ahead with our plan and had a great time.
The day we got back from our trip, I asked him when would he come back to visit us again at our house and he said He doesn’t know when and asked why. I told him that the kids and I miss him. And was hoping he would come back home when he’s ready. And he had a huge smile on his face and said, you guys miss me? I said of course we do! And that’s how we ended our conversation that day.
The next night I came home from work, he was sleeping in our bed and brought all his belongings back. But the thing is, we haven’t had a chance to talk yet. I come home from work and he’s sleeping and by the time I get up for work, he’s already gone to go to work.
So how do I approach talking to him about what happened? I don’t know if we are back together, or he just moved back in but doesn’t see us back together, I don’t know if he’s still going through his MLC? Is he in acceptance stage? Or will the monster come back?
To be honest, I am scared. Like after the BD, how he treated me the past 4 months, how do we start again? How do I deal with this? How do i start the conversation? When can I have “the talk?” Should I wait? I want to set some boundaries this time because I don’t want to get hurt like that again. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
(modified for ease of reading
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Mimosa, you might look at Evas' thread. She had a MLCer who came back home after only a few months.
I would say that any answer to your question needs to focus on how it helps you.
When do you want to have a conversation? What do you want to know for your own mental and physical health?
Remember that boundaries are based on your actions. If he does X, you do Y. It's the "you do Y" that you have control over. You don't have control of "if he does X". MLC teaches us that, that's for sure.
What do you need? Ask yourself that.
"I need............"
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I agree with Reinventing that it might be useful to turn those questions on their head.
Why?
Bc you are unlikely to get useful answers from your h right now, which I think you know (or you wouldn’t be agonising about asking the questions).
Bc it isn’t just about what he thinks or wants….it’s about you and your children.
Bc focusing on him gives away your own agency and power….and he already did that by leaving and by returning without asking or agreeing a more clear arrangement.
Bc it’s ok to say no, not now, not like this. Bc it’s ok to think about what you need and want now. Or don’t. What is acceptable to live with. Or not.
Bc you can’t control his choices but you can control your own.
Bc he is showing through his actions what he feels works best for him….to slide back as if nothing happened and without talking about it or making a new ‘deal’ on what you should expect of each other from here on.
I imagine that must feel very unsettling for you. Like waiting for another unseen bomb to drop.
So let’s turn those questions around….and it’s ok to take your time and not jump into action. (Anxiety and uncertainty tends to make us want to jump into action, doesn’t it?) and the only opinion that matters is yours bc it’s your life.
I don’t know if we are back together, or he just moved back in but doesn’t see us back together? Do you think you are back together? And what does that answer mean for what feels ok or not ok as a way to live?
I don’t know if he’s still going through his MLC? What does his behaviour look and feel like? How close to ‘normal h’ does he seem? What if it wasn’t an MLC at all? What difference does the answer make to you?
Is he in acceptance stage? As above? There’s a saying here that if you’re confused, they are still MLCish. You might want to go back and reread some of the MLC descriptions….does he look like someone who is in that place of deep reflection?
Or will the monster come back? To be honest, I am scared. What are you most scared of? What do you see and hear that triggers fear? And how might you protect yourself, based on what you have learned so far? What would make you feel safer, regardless of what happens?
Like after the BD, how he treated me the past 4 months, how do we start again? Do you want to? Do you feel ready to? Do you feel able to? What would feel like a first small step in that? What would he need to do differently that would feel as if he was doing his part of that? What are you prepared to do or not do yet?
How do I deal with this? What is ‘this’? And what would ‘dealing with it well’ look like to you?
How do i start the conversation? When can I have “the talk?” What is stopping you from starting it? Do you know what you are trying to achieve? Or what you will do if it doesn’t unfold the way you want? What do you fear if you do or you don’t?
Should I wait? What do you feel you are waiting for? What might happen if you do nothing?
You will see that these questions now are not about him, they’re about you.
Which doesn’t make them easy questions so you might want to breathe and take your time.
Boundaries are not about what other people do or say….they are essentially about what feels ok to you as a way to live and what does not. And you can’t have them without answering the basic question of what feels ok enough to you right now. And what absolutely does not, for you and your kids. Do you know? If not, I’d hold any big conversation until you feel clearer about that.
Bc one of the things that goes along with our own boundaries is that other people don’t have to like them, agree with them or act in a way that respects them. Just that the price of a ticket into our lives includes them :)…..if you’re not ok with the price, that’s ok but then you are not included. I think honestly that this is one of the biggest barriers to acting on our own boundaries….we fear the other person saying No and what we will need to do then to respect our own needs and wants. We fear what might happen if we have boundaries….or we might have convinced ourselves over time that it is not nice or kind or fair or reasonable to have them. Or that we’ll be rejected if we do.
And truthfully, boundaries are not about words, they are about actions, our actions. In all walks of life, we have them, but sometimes we don’t know what they are until someone gallops across them. So, let’s say, if you were in a store and a stranger just went in your purse bc they wanted some spare change to pay the cashier…you’d probably be pretty shocked, right? But you might feel quite comfortable offering a stranger some extra cash if you see that they had forgotten their purse or were a couple of dollars short? Or you might not….bc people have different versions of what feels ok or inappropriate in given circumstances. But, in the store situation, your response would communicate your boundary….we show people what we will accept from them really rather than tell them. Same with kids….we can use a million words lol, but they learn from our responses what we actually find ok or not ok as a parent. And what happens next - which they may or may not like much - if they choose the ‘not ok’ behaviour.
What do you think your behaviour right now is communicating to your h and your kids and yourself about where your boundary lines are, about what is ok and what is not? How close is that to your actual boundaries? Or where you want them to be?
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My immediate response to him showing up in your bed, unannounced, without speaking with you, or asking if it is what you would like, or even if it's OK with you - in other words, being completely insensitive to your feelings without any kind of mutual respect - is - Wow, how arrogant. How selfish and entitled. You said you missed him, you did not invite him back into your intimate space. I understand that everything looks different closer up, and you know all the nuances of your situation, so I don't mean to trash your H, but, to you, do his actions suggest that he is thinking about your feelings? If the answer is no, well, that's a good indication that he is still self-absorbed, aka not mentally well (assuming he was not like this before). His wishing to sweep it under the carpet. Ditto. Treasur has thrown some great questions out there. From my experience, it is near impossible to get any clear-eyed perspective in the wake of BD. I may well have let my H sneak back under the duvet too ;) - I'm not sure, but I do know, some detachment really helps us understand how we want to move forward and what a reconnection might look like to us. You've not had the time and space to do this yet - your still proverbially firefighting. If you find a way to can create some distance from your H's emotions to properly be able to reflect on your feeling, things will likely become clearer to you.
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I think it's also more than likely he will leave again based on the way he returned. So please prepare yourself and dont get your hopes up. Take it day by day.
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do his actions suggest that he is thinking about your feelings?
Excellent question.
If the MLCer is only thinking about him/herself then he is very much in escape and avoid phase. Knowing that he was "missed" would have given him the impetus to carry on doing what he wants to do.
MLCers become quite narcissistic and selfish and only they matter.
Boundaries are for you BTW and not for him.
Could he leave again - yes he could. Remember MLC is rooted in depression and depressed people never want to be where they are right now. They may seem jovial and light-hearted but it's all an act.
Please keep bright, breezy and detached with him and do not commit to any R talks just yet. Actions will always speak louder than words.
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Thank you so much for your replies! I apologize for not replying right away, I have been very busybat work.
! I have been very, very cautious of dealing with my H. haven’t discussed the word R yet, and he hasn’t apologized. I definitely have my guard up. But, lately he has been showing some improvement, He has been helping with chores again, he’s been thanking me for even the smallest thing I do for him and even saying ILY and said that he missed me. He spends more time with our kids again, always showing initiative when it comes to spending time with them. I can see the old him more and more everyday but I still don’t expect anything. I guess only time will tell.
What happened to us has made me realize that I don’t need him to make myself happy, I have my kids, my Family and friends. And if in the future, he still decides to D me, I will be okay with it. For four months and even now, i worked really hard to find myself again, to bring back the old, independent Me. I thought for a long time, he was the only one who can make me happy. I was very attached to him. I can be happy with or without him. I realized that. So for now, I will take it day by day, whichever path my life goes,I will be happy if we get back together and start fresh. and I know now I too can be happy happy without him.