[Anjae]

Yeah Anjae that holding hands- skipping - sunset seeking- rainbow pot of gold searching - la la land -happily ever after thing
Not very realistic.

I know a few old couples for whom it is quite realistic.  One of them lives around the corner.

But more importantly is to be with someone that deeply cares about me. Someone that smiles when I walk in the room. Someone that no matter where she is in the room, we can look at each other and connect.

You didn't have that with your x-wife before she was in MLC? That was Mr J and I before MLC hit him.

I think the LBSer is more responsible and still wants what is best for the children. Not paying my alimony and child support would have invariably hurt my youngest daughter. I would never let that happen. Plus, I keep to my commitments!

Of course, Ready. It is just interesting that the men who mess up don't often pay a thing, and the ones who don't do = female LBS are left in troubles.

Oh, what if our new spouse/partner goes into MLC? We never know, do we? Some here have had two marriages that end up with a spouse in MLC. Ursa comes to mind, but he is not the only one. What if we have a MLC (I've already had mine, so I think I'm safe from a new one)? We can't say for sure we will not have a MLC.

You're helping.  It is great to see you posting again.

I know several real life MLCers. Some are people I have known since my teens. They have done horrible things. Several of them are still in MLC. I don't know all the details, but a couple married the OW and had children with her. One of them left his boys in our capital and moved with OW to the a rural place in the middle of nowhere.

One guy I know who has been out of MCL for a very long time, married OW and had children with her. When divorced OW he tried to get back with his LBS, but she had moved on.

I also know single people that are having a MLC. The damages those cause are different, no marriage is destroyed. But they can still cause a mess. Like marry the wrong person, hurt that person and themselves, or not marry, but have children with someone that is a mess. Single MCLers tend to turn agains a parent and/or sibling, or a close friend.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

You didn't have that with your x-wife before she was in MLC? That was Mr J and I before MLC hit him.

It's hard to say. It's close but different. But different circumstances. My new wife and I both dealt with cheating spouses. We are more focused on the relationship and each other. Our children are grown and even though they still need our help, we don't have to focus the same attention we did when they were little.

So now I feel as if I am back to some new normal. Fixed my car today, went shopping with Mrs. Ready, now watching Netflix with her. Then off to bed so we can get ready together for the New Year.

Just a mundane quiet day and I love it!

(((Hugs)))

Ready

[Anjae]

We don't have children, so we didn't had to focus on them. We're planning to have, but Mr J left.

We were quite focussed on the relationship and on each other. Of course I have no way of comparing with a second marriage because I still don't have one.

Another who loves quiet mundane days.

There was no Netflix by then, but watching tv series and movies was something Mr J and I loved.

Hugs and a Happy 2019 to you and Mrs. Ready.

[xyzcf]

I had a box, full of journals from "that" time..perhaps 14 in all..pages and pages of "documentation" of everything he said, how I felt......I had marked the box "private, do not read" and I have never gone back and read any of the journals. I did not want anyone to ever read them..especially our daughter.

Why did I keep these for so long? I thought maybe I would need "proof" if he didn't comply with the separation agreement, I often thought about getting rid of them.

I just spent an hour with my shredder. Ripping, shredding, emptying into one large garbage back and finally placing it all in the trash.

It is a very positive thing for me to have done.

I continue in therapy. There are still areas to flush out, to heal....she can get me there...she has helped me sooooooo much.

His contact continues to be pretty regular. I had dinner with him in Dec, he brought me gifts, beautiful cards for my birthday and Christmas..cards that confuse me....

He was not included in our Christmas gathering this year.

It is still very bizarre to me, why he maintains contact but I guess I am used to bizarre by now.

I am well. I started a very small job as a nurse and that makes me really happy. I keep busy with many activities and friends. I entertain friends at my home and have adjusted to living alone. I like my home and the the state I live in...the sunshine is fabulous.

I wrote on another thread that my life is sterile and loveless. Anjae challenged me on that and so I have given it some thought...it is how I feel. Sometimes I feel like I am in a play, each day, going through my "routines" until bedtime comes.

I still miss him very much. I think I always will.

[Anjae]

I have long got rig of all my journals from BD and afterwards. Even now, I fill one and shred it. All the evidence I may need is in e-mails, Mr J and OW1 and a little with OW2 correspondence and other documents.

Besides, he already told a court all I said he did and happened is true. And since, there were no more court cases. And there will not be.

Xyzcf, If you feel your life sterile and loveless, then, that is how you feel. On the other hand, I am feeling very alive and vibrant. I guess each of us feels differently about things after a few years.

I think your husband, like Mitz one, still contacts, brings presents, etc. because both of you have always allowed them to be part of your life. If I had let him, Mr J would still be the king of clingers, always coming around - of phoning/e-mailing/texting. Since he leads another life, does not pay alimony and has OW (or had) he is not going to be part of my life.

He made his choice when he left October 2006.

[xyzcf]

I think your husband, like Mitz one, still contacts, brings presents, etc. because both of you have always allowed them to be part of your life. If I had let him, Mr J would still be the king of clingers, always coming around - of phoning/e-mailing/texting. Since he leads another life, does not pay alimony and has OW (or had) he is not going to be part of my life.

The number one reason why I allow contact is that I believe in the permanency of marriage as I would say others do as well, Mitzpah and Trusting who are both long time standers.

We also have children with these husbands and try hard to make things a bit easier for our kids.

Mitz and I also were in 30 plus year marriages.

I  continue to believe that he could come home one day. We are seeing some long timers situation changing, serenity, songanddance. I have always felt that allowing contact, showing unconditional and agape love is what is right, no matter whether he returns or not.

Clinging boomerangers do continue to initiate contact. As I have expressed, I am surprised that he still does.

I still want him. That has never changed and so yes, I allow him to initiate contact and I respond.

The idea that we once discussed of the little boy getting on the school bus for the first day of school who keeps looking back to see if mom is still there rings true to me.

I also believe that there is something really wrong with him, mentally, spiritually and physically. For me, allowing contact means that I will not have any regrets in the future should something happen to him.

I deal better now with it..more detached I guess.

Everyone's situation is different. Each of us decide for ourselves how we want to live out this journey.

[Anjae]

I spend 20 years with Mr J. Which is a very long time for someone who was 18 when we got together. It would had been impossible at the time of BD to have been in a 30 plus years relationship with Mr J since we were in our 30's. At times, the "we were in a 30 plus marriage" sounds condescending an like "those of you who weren't have no idea how it is" or "it may be easier for you because it wasn't so long". For some of us it was impossible, we weren't old enough. And now that we are, we don't have the chance. Our spouse walked away. 

We don't have children because he left when we had decided to have them. But I don't think it is the having children that makes the difference. No shortage of LBS with children with the MLCer in a new relationship or marriage.

As for the permanency of marriage, evidently, it is not permanent. If it was, it would still exist. It doesn't. Be it because there is divorce, because the couple is long separated and the MLCer living with someone else. There is no marriage. 

Yes, some long time MLCer are reconnecting. But neither Serenity nor Songanddance have a husband who divorced them 9 years down the road or who is still deep in Replay 12 years after BD. Serenity is at the 7 years mark, I think (maybe less?) and Song, 5 about to be 6. While ours continue in their crisis years after theirs start to reconnect.

Mitz one seems to be fine with his life and with in going by the house often. It has been 8 years and counting since BD for him and he does not seem to be much changed. He comes, he goes, he is nice, but fully come out of crisis is not happening for now.

Trusandlove is the one HS member of those who still post with some regularity who has a MLCer only a little short in his crisis than Mr J. Her husband is still where the buses don't run. Doesn't look any of the three, your husband, Trust's husband or Mr J is about to end his replay.

Since we are all very different and have different levels of contact with them, it does not seem to have anything to do with having, or not having contact with them. I have no idea what they are doing for so long deep in MLC.

Of course clinging boomerangers do continue to initiate contact. Even Mr J does it at times. And, like I said, he would still be around, or in contact all the time if I had let him. It wasn't him who decided to cut contact. It was I who cut it. It was impossible to deal with his nasty, anger, ups and down and my mental sanity was suffering.

There is something very wrong with MLCers mentally and spiritually and with a few physically. I "regret" (the phase of regrets is over) to have allowed so much contact after BD and in the early years. Did me no good and served no purpose. Doubt it had done any good to Mr J as well.

Agape love is fine, but it is not the type of love for a marriage/a spouse.

[xyzcf]

Agape love is fine, but it is not the type of love for a marriage/a spouse.

That is your view and you are entitled to it.

It doesn't fit for my belief that marriage IS permanent and indissolvable. Without that belief, you cannot understand why I feel this way.

But neither Serenity nor Songanddance have a husband who divorced them 9 years down the road

That's pretty low Anjae.

I wrote an update of where I am at today..just that, No need to pick apart what my beliefs are and always have been.

[Anjae]

It is not my view of agape love, it is what agape love is. I didn't invent it, the Ancient Greeks did. Agape love is general, detached love for others/mankind.

It has nothing romamtic/amorous in it. It has nothing to do with the "I love you" we say/feel for a spouse.

I can understand you have that kind of universal love for your husband, but agape love does not sustain marital love. For example, it does not involve intimacy. Marriage does. 

It has nothing to do with low. I also wrote that Mr J is still deep in Replay after more than 12 years of BD.

I  continue to believe that he could come home one day. We are seeing some long timers situation changing, serenity, songanddance

You were mentioning long time situations changing, in the sense of reconnection. That is not what happened/is happening to you. Or I. Or Trustandlove. Or even Mitz. If you want to call facts low, so be it.

But, it is a fact. Ours are still deep in replay while theirs are reconnecting years before ours even try.

5 years is not exactly long, long term. And I am not certain of Serenity timeline. Her first thread is from 2013, but it does not mean BD wasn't before.

Of course your husband can come home one day. Pretty much all MLCers want to come back home one day, once their crisis is over.  And yours, Mitz and Trustandlove have very good, if not perfect, changed or reconciling because you're willing to.

[Nerissa]

It’s a decision I’m finding really hard: whether to maintain connection or not.  Currently I’m not because I really needed to break the attachment for my own health.  But he wants to be ’friends’.  I put it in inverted commas because I don’t see how he will invest in friendship in the way I would want.  He wants to be in touch with me and his children when it suits him as far  as I can see.  He speaks of agape love and uses Buddhist teachings on love, but the reality is that the sacrifice and psychological struggle comes from me.

Where, for each of us, is the distinction between being open and forgiving and being used?  I can’t see it in my own case yet at least.  It is obviously my pride and ego that makes me resist an offer of friendship that doesn’t hurt me as long as I maintain boundaries, but how do I get there?  How do I cease seeing it as me giving and him taking?  And ultimately, which path is best for me and my children?