[Milly]

Anjae, you described exactly what I felt like from BD to now. At first, blaming myself completely for the breakdown of the marriage. Then looking at myself and finding the things I could improve. Then finding the help to work on myself. Then owning my part and letting go of his.

Yes, I could have avoided some of my behaviour in my marriage, but what I'm beginning to realize finally is that if I had married someone without the problems my H has, my 'things' would probably not have mattered, or if they would have, they would have been discussed and we would have found a way to work through them.

[Believer]

Anjae,

Always a good reminder about the MLC process and not the distractions that get tossed in the mix !

Believer

[Anjae]

It was RCR who described it. The quotes are from one of her articles that are on HS main site article's section.

The whole article is worth reading, as are all of RCR articles and blog posts.

They can be found here: https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html and here:

I think it is interesting and important to debate and study all matters pertaining and surrounding MLC. Otherwise people like RCR and HB would had never written their articles and our knowledge of MLC would still be reduce to "red sports car, 20 years old blonde bimbo and it lasts six months".

However, it is also very importat for the LBS to know they did not cause their spouse MLC, that the marriage was not the issue and that the spouse MLC would had happened regardless of who they marry, or didn't marry. Single, long divorced (non-MLC divorce) and widowed people have MLC. MLC is not a marital issue.

Milly, bottom line, your things didn't mattered. They didn't cause your husband's MLC. But I understand what you mean. Indeed, if we had married someone who didn't had a MLC things would be different. Yet, many couples divorce and/or have serious issues without the existence of MLC. And, there are even people who marry twice and end up with two MLCers. Some are HS members, like Ursa.

That is, we never know what is going to happen and to whom. Which is a very good for us to keep on living according to whatever think is the best way for us. Life is uncertain, and we only have one life.

[osb]

I'm not here often enough to keep my own thread current, really these days I just like to talk about ideas and not about my boring life... but I saw a topic batted around on a couple of threads that I thought might be interesting to discuss here, among the old timers.

When did you agree that MLC was a thing? Was there a not-sure-I'm seeing-this time, and then a quite-sure time? A gradually growing recognition? Denial, bargaining, anger, all the Kubler Ross stages? Are you always sure it's MLC now? Or does that cold finger of uncertainty slip between your shoulder blades even now, saying "maybe he was right and it was never love, ever"? Or just "I'm well rid of him, he was always a wart"?

MLC seems to me like a rear view mirror diagnosis (as you drive away, foot on the gas...). I am sure there was a time I couldn't quite wrap that diagnosis around what I saw of my H, unexplained bits kept sticking out and I tended to doubt. I'm also sure there was a point where I became so certain of MLC, I couldn't comprehend how the whole world couldn't see it. A lot of newbies seem to arrive here in the doubt phase. Some of their spouses may truly not be in MLC (some broken in other ways, some just criminal); but there's no way to discern. Some spouses act out every step of the classic MLC, some skip a few. Mine happened to play every note of the bloody symphony (including the coming back half-baked, and the eventually reconciling), so I recognized the tune soon enough. But for some it's a jangled bunch of intermittent sounds, or silence.

I guess what I'm asking is, this is indeed a forum to discuss MLC, but is it or isn't it ok to express doubt in the path? I've seen a few sharp responses to that (both ways). Worth a conversation?

[forthetrees]

I keep tabs on medical science journal articles and I´m beginning to think that it is the inflammation that comes with anxiety and depression that derails them. As more and more comes out about the gut-brain axis and the role of neurotransmitters, I bet that MRIs would show changes or at least there would be blood biomarkers of inflammation i.e. depression. They do so many similar behaviors and have so many similar changes that it seems to be the perfect storm of mind-body spiraling into a negative spin. I do believe that MLC is real, but I also think it has a strong physiological root that entwines with the psychological roots. When the storm hits, the MLCer does not have the coping strategies or communication tools to deal with it and the spouse is collateral damage. You can´t run away from yourself and sooner or later they seem to realize that.

Some MLCers give the "gift" of being so off the wall that the LBS knows fairly soon that it is not just a bad day or a moody phase. The OW pattern seems to be a co-worker, or as I like to say, a V@g!n@ that they trip over. MLCers don´t have the energy to put effort into finding their new "soul mate."

When they run out of diversions from their inner pain, they probably realize the mountain of pain they´ve created and it seems that most do not have the emotional wherewithal to address the damage they´ve done. Near the beginning of my journey I unloaded my woes to my cousin, a psychologist, who said that he´d likely die a "lonely old man." At the point I was still hoping for reconciliation. Now I believe that she´s probably right about the outcome.

I think when the LBS realizes that the MLCer has not added to his/her emotional took kit while the LBS has gone from surviving to thriving, that is when the LBS can truly walk away - even from a MLCer who wants to return. We reach a point where we decide that we are worthy and deserve to be treated well.

End of my two cents.

[RedStar]

... a V@g!n@ that they trip over. MLCers don´t have the energy to put effort into finding their new "soul mate."

So true, ha ha!

It's "interesting," isn't it, how so many of these random v@g!n@s lying around are broken, useless bottom feeders. I can't imagine the MLCer of my acquaintance is truly enjoying the babysitting job he so eagerly signed up for, supporting basically a new dependent he can't even claim on his taxes and trying to keep her out of the bottle. LOL. I mean, what a great life! Who wouldn't want THAT?  Sooo worth everything he gave up, I'm sure! *laughing*

We see over and over again how MLCers discard their standards wholesale. Many know they are making a really bad choice and even say things that prove they know it. There is not one speck of rationality there anymore.

I think a lot of LBS doubt simply comes from the fact that the wider world doesn't recognize or understand MLC, so it reflects that ignorance at us, saying in effect, "I don't know what you're talking about!" If there *is* such a thing, it surely describes what xH is doing, and I know from so many tales by former MLCers that he could come out of it someday. But where he or I will be at then is unknowable, and I currently have no plans to wait up, so to speak. I want someone who is up to MY standards, period. And since that rules out random d!cks hanging out there to trip over, it will take a little more time and/or effort. Which is fine.

[strawberry]

There does seem to be a growing body of scientist that acknowlede mid-life transition as a reality, while denying “crisis”. I’ve read about studies in the last decade or so that have observed an optimism low point/depression that almost all people go through world wide regardless of nationity or socio-economic status.    It’s even been observed in some primate colonies.

The same book I read this in though said there was no such thing as a crisis while completely describing people in crisis.  He dismissed the destroying of marriages as previous bad marriages but was taking the interviewee’s word for it and didn’t interview the other people in their life that I think would paint a different picture.   But then commented on how those subsequent marriages had high divorce rates.  The tea leaves were there to read, but the author missed the clues.

What was most striking is his description of “rocky” transitions for single people.  They often went from stable and responsible lives to a spiraling out of control with drugs, alcohol, risky one night stands, or a combination of these.  If that isn’t a crisis, I don’t know what is.

I have to conclude that MLC is a very bad transition combined with little to no coping skills.  It does seem like they are running from pain trying to find the ever elusive “happy”

[Anjae]

When did I knew for sure it was MLC? A while after BD when a friend told me it was MLC and that he have had one years before. He didn't share much. Just that at a point he left his wife we knew because he had got involved with OW, married OW and had twins with her. Didn't offer any practical advice aside from letting it be and that Mr J would come out of it and regret all he had done. Friend's MLC was much shorter than Mr J's one turned to be. Friend tried to go back to his MLC was over. She had remarried and wanted nothing to do with him, aside being glad he had went back to be a father to their daughter.

I think MLC comes from excessive stress and anxiety coupled with depression. Neurotransmitters may play a part, but I think cortisol plays a much bigger part. Pretty much everything in brain and body will become a mess with the level of stress and anxiety MLCers are under. What is amazing is for how many years they can remain deep in crisis.

Midlife transition is a normal thing we all go through. MLC is, so to speak, a midlife transition that went wrong/to crisis level. Not sure it has to do with poor coping skills. Since MLC involves depression, often quite a serious depression, it may have more to do with the level of depression.

Depressed people tend to have poor coping skills because they are depressed.

[strawberry]

I guess I use the words poor coping skills for lack of a better description.  Mid-life transition is a normal thing we all go through but 90% of us don't go off the rails.  Depression is sadly more common than previously thought, but again, few depressed people go off the rails. 

[Anjae]

I don't know what could be a better description. Depression actions? I had a MLC. Mild and short. I didn't had bad copink skills before. However, I was not good at coping with BD and my MLC come. Of course I was under a huge amount of stress and anxiety at the time and I am certain there was depression, even if, at the time, I didn't see it as such.

In my case, I think that, if as soon as my stress and anxiety were identified I had been given something more than valerian pills things may had been different. I was only given more appropriated medication for the situation after I come back home. But no one, not even my friend who is a psychiatrist, tried to tell me to do things differently. No one suggested a change is MLC lifestyle. The view was that is was normal for a person to go a little wild after a 20 years old relationship/marriage ending, especially if cheating was involved.

Maybe they were right and it was better that I got to go a little crazy. I didn't cause harm to anyone, other than increase my already high stress levels. 

I think depressed people go off the rails probably more often than believed. Usually, we don't see them as depressed people. We see a drunk, an addicted, a cheater, a high achiever, a workaholic, a perfectionist, etc. Depressed people also kill themselves. Or try to. It is another type of go off the rails. An even worst one.

Depression is being study from all points of view. There are many ideas and theories, but, so far, there does not seem to be a cure, aside for the simpler types of depression. It is a complicated and fascinating issues many of us would like to see breakthrough on.

It is also one subject we have discussed a lot on HS and continue to since it is so relevant for MLC. It is interesting to read/know others views on the matter.