Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Shantilly Lace on May 12, 2011, 06:37:15 PM
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So this cropped up somewhere in the forum. :-[ Couldn't remember where sorry.
What is your bare minimum?
To be honest I don't truly know my bare minimum. Once upon a time I would have done anything as we all think and then it was if he gave up ow and begged and pleaded and grovelled. And then...
well it changes.
What I would like to end up with is respect and love. A true friendship where we support one another without passing judgement. Without forcing our opinions onto one another or feeling slighted if we disagree.
There is so much more than that but they are not a bare minimum they are something that will come with time as we progress through this journey.
I spose my bare minimum was what he did New Years Eve he walked through the door again, still far from perfect, far from over ow, far from remorse, or anything. So who knows really?
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This point is moot.... what is being asked here? What is the bare minimum they have to do for you to "take them back"? They haven't even ASKED to come back, yet!! We're all STANDING, for goodness sakes.... that means the bare minimum is moot, or has been met!
The real question is, how would you like your marriage to be once you are really and truly reconciled...
The reconciliation is a process that overlaps the finishing of MLC, so YOUR needs will still not be met... therefore, you will be grateful to have your husband back in your home, with the kids, AWAY from OW and that complication and embarassment...as a bare minimum.
Or perhaps the question is really, what do you hope to hear in his mea culpa speech? Cuz MINE is a big fat fantasy filled with...
"OW is a ho, skank, I was posessed because I would NEVER have been able to stomach her otherwise.... I was miserable the WHOLE TIME I was with her, and hated the sex.... could barely get it up, but was afraid to come home because I was depressed and confused.... every time I looked at her ugly mug, I thought of your beautiful face and the faces of our children.... I know I don't deserve the type of love you have shown me, but if you will allow me to, I will spend the rest of my life SHOWING you just how grateful I am to have you in my miserable life, and I will be the man I've always wanted to be, hoping to be worthy of you (even though you're not perfect, and I don't expect you to be!)..."
Then, he will get down on his knees and say "I'm unworthy, but you are the only woman for me and I'm asking if you will re-marry me (even though we're not divorced) in a private ceremony at an all-inclusive beach resort so that I can say my VOW to you , this time with a new understanding and willingness to commit to you, my true love! And, with your permission, I would like to personally apologize to our chilren, families and friends for my going off the deep end and causing you so much pain and disrespect... it's the only thing that will allow me to forgive myself..."
At this point, anything FORWARD is a good thing, LOL!!
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Omgosh! That is hilarious.. Can I print it? haha.. I will give it to my h to read when he comes home. Since he could not come up with that on his own. haha. Too funny!
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Letting Go is right - the Bare minimum is what would you have to see IF they were to want to come back.
I think a lot of times, people analyze and over analyze WAS behavior for "signs" that they are returning. It can be frustrating, and frankly - takes a lot of time and energy away from focusing on yourself.
The "concept" is you define what you really really need to see in order to accept the other person back. Not just ' oh he's nice to me once" or "oh, he burped in my presence, do you think he is relaxed around me?" IS it giving up the OP? Is it showing remorse? Is it a mea culpa?
Point is, you figure out what your bare minimum is - what you absolutely MUST SEE ( and not just niceties) Then you only look for that ONE SIGN. If you dont see it, then there is no return and you continue on your path putting the focus on yourself.
Its a form of freeing yourself from analysis paralysis of your WAS.
And if you are standing, doesn't mean that reconciliation is not a gift you give to your MLC. Don't take them back if they are still broken. They will leave you again.
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AUTHENTICITY
Minimal BS
Someone who has a voice and TAKES ACTION
Someone who loves me for who I AM and not what I DO for them
Someone who knows how to take care of themselves and ENTERTAIN themselves
Someone who wants to make the world a better place and TAKES ACTION.
Oh by the way these are all the things I am working on for MESELF ;)
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Katsa, you make some very good points.... however, as a Stander, I'm committed to seeing my husband's crisis ALL THE WAY THROUGH, as it has propelled me on my OWN journey of self-discovery.
I feel there is no way to know what he will be like "in the end" because none of us will stop growing and changing after this. Having the alienator gone is just one step towards reconciliation, then their trip out of depression into the light.
I can describe my FANTASY of how I want my husband to be in three words.... Bond... James Bond ;D
Now, back to reality... :) I happen to have turned a corner in my part of his crisis recently, and I no longer feel the anger at him that I used to have. His actions are still hurtful, but we are travelling this path together, dragging OW along in the dirt at this point. I don't know how to describe the difference, but once that anger is diminished (notice I didn't say gone) and put in it's proper place, then all of a sudden MY life begins again, which is why I don't feel a need for a bare minimum list.
I don't think any of us would open the door wide and say "sure, come on in. We'll just carry on like nothing happened and I'll be grateful to have you here. Don't mind me, I'm just walking on eggshells.." I honestly don't think any of our spouses would expect that, either.. that's not what they want at all... I don't think they want to sweep it all under the rug, though who wouldn't want to avoid that cloud of shame? I suspect that once they make the decision to dump OW for life and come home, they need uninterrupted time to heal before the real work on the marriage can begin.
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This idea of the bare minimum was Katsa's idea on my thread. I think it's very wise, and makes us take a step back and look at ourselves. I'm finding it hard to decide what my minimum would be, because H is sort of here, and OW is sort of gone. He doesn't promise that he won't see her again, as a friend, and he can't promise me that he'll stay. So, I do feel like saying to him:
"Go and find yourself and what you're looking for. Take the time you need. If or when you are ready to commit to our M, exclusively, for now and in the future, then come back, and we'll build a really good R, one which is good for both of us"
I might be wrong, but I have the feeling that we're sort of slowly getting there, but without Hollywood-esque drama. MLC may just die with a whimper.
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Don't take them back if they are still broken
IMO even when they come home there is still a lot of healing to complete and maybe some of the journey. HB used to say that many come home still broken to continue finding themselves whilst rebuilding a new relationship.
Maybe this is a cop out but I'm not sure what my minimum is. I have been thinking about it. I suppose I have to say that when the day comes I will know via my intuition what the minimum is and what boundaries will be needed. This is a good thread to read though.
xx
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For me, I think the bare minimum would be true remorse and honesty.
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LG, I so needed that, gold stars to you, no one could have said it better. If he is even one word off THAT script, he's not gettin' through the door!
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So maybe bare minimum is after coming through the crisis and not when they return home.
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Buggy that was what I was thinking.
Not only that but it becomes a blueprint for all relationships we have.
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Yes think about it...even the relationships we have with OURSELVES...the most important of all
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Lisaweaves.... just so you know.... that was my FANTASY!!! It's not likely to happen that way AT ALL or to even be close... but what if that is how they feel inside and show you in their actions they are devoted to you?
Today, as my husband struggled to tell me what I already knew, that he felt he had some unfinished business to take care of with "that bit**" and I just replied, "ok" and went on with our convo.... he said "I'm coming HOME... I want you to know.... I love you soooooo much....and I thank you for sticking with me...." I said "I love you... and I'm your wife." then he broke down and got teary.... so he said he had to go. I told him to have a safe trip.
Now, that is hardly dramatic, but it is significant and let's me know he is trying.
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This is interesting.....
I know some who have reconciled who say that it doesn't happen in one fell swoop -- there is no moment (at least no declared moment) of "oh my god, what have I done"; it often goes out with a whimper, as Mermaid said on her thread that it might do for her.
I think the "bare minimum" might be something that moves. Like you first accept just a pleasant conversation, after a while that's not enough. I know that isn't about reconciiiation, it's just about having a relationship.
But those that I know who have rebuilt say that it starts with what works, even if that is just the ability to have a civil conversation, and slowly, slowly move to the next thing. The minimum here seems to be the actions that show that the desire to do so is there. But a lot of the work still falls to the LBS.
For true reconciliation the minimum seems to be "no one else". But to START the process the barrier is often much lower.
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This is in interesting question for me. And I don't know if I have an answer. If I had to name it in one word it would be HONESTY.
If he could be honest then we could get to all the other things.
The bare minimun for myself right now is SANITY......
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Honesty is the bare minimum for me.
I don't believe that I can ever accept less than that ever again.
L
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For me: that I know that he found his heart and will no longer follow his ego. You know, people can't be more honest with us then they are to themselves. As long as H. wears masks, indentifies with a role and a voice in his head that tells him he is better then others, ignoring his own wrong actions and only seeing the wrong actions of others, the inner conflict and drama for himself and people close to him will continue. This is all beyond my control. In the mean time I will not focus on the splinter in his eye, but develop my own true self... :P
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For me: I don't know that my H would really have to meet a "minimum" at this point. At first I would have taken anything to get him to come home. Now I have gotten past the anger - or at least it is not at the forfront. I can still "see" flashes of my old H and know that he has the capability to be a much better person than who he has been for the last several months.
I want a relationship that is healthy, respectful, fun & exciting. I want to give love and be loved in a partnership where we value each other. So the minimum for me would be to be able to see that my H has the capacity to help us achieve that relationship - even if it is still buried and I can only get a glimpse every now and then.
My journey is far from complete and my expectations for my marriage are to no longer have the marriage that I had prior to BD. As I progress in my journey my view of things that my H has done is also changing. The hurt is there, the anger is there, and some of the things he has done I will never understand, but for me to continue to stand I have to know in my soul that I will be able to let the hurt, anger, and confusion go. If we do decide to reconcile - and both of us have to be committed to that - we will both be different people - so our relationship will have to start from scratch, with a clean slate, and that would me that I have no expectations or preconceived ideas that are a hold over from the past.
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By "bare minimum" for a "return" and what I need from a marriage in the future, they are completely different for me. I can't think of a case where the MLCer returns to the marriage done with the MLC completely, not that I can think of anyway. They return broken and damaged and still in an immense amount of pain. I would accept H back without big declarations, etc. HOWEVER, if we are rebuilding and as he works through the final steps of MLC there is more I would need from him. To start I would need honesty and total transparency in order to rebuild trust. If I feel like I need to reassure myself by looking at his phone, I will need to be allowed to do so at any time, etc.
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Simple, well, sort of... ;D
Honesty and remorse.... to start.
with more to follow as time (& MLC) goes on.
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I've been thinking about my bare minimum.
1. I want H to acknowledge that his R with OW was highly destructive for our M, totally unacceptable, and cannot happen again.
2. I want him to promise me that he will work on our R, and be committed to it.
3. I want to have an equal and honest R, balanced with work.
And I know that I am far off this. H is happy to be here, uncommitted, taking time off when he needs, going out with OW when she can (but the poor thing is so overworked, and has so many commitments, , esp with new bf, that she just can't find the time....). He puts work first, like he always has.
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Dragonfly, you have a very realistic expectation.... thanks for your comments.
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Bare minimum too soon to tell. I was going to ask about anger. I haven't had any. Will it come later? Once since BD 2-14-11 I hit my head doing some chores he should be doing and I yelled out a little but other than that I just feel like H running away was his way of escaping his pain (that I didn't really appreciate) I mean I know an ER physician who went home from work one day and her H had killed himself with a shotgun in the kitchen. If he was depressed and ran to think and have OW and learn life's lessons then that's better than the other scenario.
I'm scared for him. I know him so well that I figure if he's hurting so badly I just need to pray for him and take care of myself and the Ds for now.
Especially since he's being soooo nice since BD.
Bare minimum equals ACT LIKE A NORMAL PERSON FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. (I know it's not possible he's a sick teenager right now)
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Mama Bear,
Yes, I think that anger will come sooner or later. For me it came about 8 months after BD no. 2 when h made the most selfish comment ever. No, it wasn't even prior spew that sent me into anger, just his ever so selfish remark. I now think of him as an a$$h0!e or a f-tard. Then I try to do the Ghandi thing of not feeling anger so it doesn't eat me up from the inside.