Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Dragonfly33 on May 24, 2023, 06:42:46 AM
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https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12008.150
I just wanted to clear my part regarding the NC since some seemed to be offended by this topic. This is just my opinion and I mentioned this a couple of times already. Some people here can do well with continuing to have contact with their MLCer in a healthy way. What I mean about "healthy way" is that you are capable being caught up in a crazy rollercoaster of emotions yourself while being friendly/civil with the MLC spouse. And I totally respect that and in fact I am amazed how they do it because from my experience I couldn't do it. When my xH was still living with me, I was a total wreck psychologically and emotionally because I cycled a lot and I had a lot of expectations. When they weren't met, I was frustrated and or furious. And even at the start of my MLC journey, when I moved out from our home, my xh continued to contact me telling me how he loved me but also doing the opposite. That wasn't healthy for me because I was hurt a lot. I was constantly in the confused state and it affected my work and my mental health.
Some advised me to keep my distance and reduced contact which probably at that time was a good thing to do. However, I didn't listen. I followed my feelings. I was so enmeshed in the MLC situation that both me and my xh were actually in a limbo. After I kicked out my xh and he stopped contacting me (because he was busy with a new supply), after a long while of no contact, only then I realized what a crazy rollercoaster I was in. I slowly learned to accept that I couldn't control him nor the situation he was in. I started to accept that I couldn't influence his actions. He would do whatever he liked whether I was around or not because he felt entitled to do those things and he was just not capable of being a loyal and honest husband to me. When I got the card from him this year on my birthday, I knew I cannot be in contact with him still because even just that card, it sent me back into limbo land. It took me a month to find my composure again that I worked so hard to achieve. So I know, for me personally, NC worked well. But that doesn't mean that everybody should do NC. Like what Treasur said, we should respect the decisions of others.
As for the newbies, I think they will find out along the way what works for them. I've had people telling me the same thing that NC is the only way when I was a newbie. And I didn't follow their advise. I continued my way until I realized in the end what worked for me best.
As for my xh, he wasn't a bad man. I don't think so. He had good qualities but he wasn't the God sent husband either. He did a number of things in the past that weren't very respectful towards me. And for me NC is drawing my boundaries that he crossed so many times. NC for me is respecting myself finally and making a point to my xh that I am not an option that he can always come back to when feels like dumping all his sadness that he himself caused. NC for me is valuing myself this time and not letting him treat me like the OW while being in a relationship with the OW. That's why I am not responding to my xh anymore. I think one very important factor to consider here is, we don't have children. I think with children, that would be very hard to do. If I had children, I don't think I could go total NC with my xh, for the sake of my kids. But since I don't have, I don't see it necessary anymore to stay in contact. But then again that's just me. It doesn't mean that this is a rule that everybody should follow after all, even if we have similar experience it's still different in some ways.
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Attaching
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I also needed that non interaction to heal. That also can change. Although we are all seeking answers and guidance we are all adults and hopefully if you come to this forum you read enough to know that we all as individuals are not cookie cutter and nor will be our situation or MLCers and we can look at each LBS situation and stories and take what we need and connect where we can , but in the end we all do what we want ( IMHO)
I can totally relate to this Madluv. In the end, nobody should be judged here whether or not they do NC. I think it's really very individual. Nobody should feel being invalidated for continue to have contact with their spouse while healing.
xycf
I can understand how you feel. I was there myself when my friends and family insisted on not having contact with my xh at the onset of the whole MLC show. They were almost upset and sometimes angry why I continued to answer him. But at the time I wasn't ready and I didn't know what was best for me. I was so blinded by having the idea of saving my marriage. And it was hard to heal for me. But that doesn't mean that what you are doing is wrong. I don't think there is a right or wrong way here to deal with our MLC spouse. I think we have different ways of dealing with it and what worked for some may not work for the others. Like what Madluv said, we are all adults here and we are all capable of sifting through what works for us. Thank you for sharing your insights. It's important for me to see and read what others experienced. This forum helped me a lot by reading the stories of others and to understand that I was not crazy after all and others experience the same thing and not just me.
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Thank you Ursa, I don't know until now how to do that. :-\
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And well done to you. Dragonfly, for being able to see and express your own needs and healthy boundaries so clearly. That’s a big step too, isn’t it?
Put simply, there are probably two main reasons for minimising contact imho. When the emotional and psychological effect is too much to live with easily. And when someone’s behaviour towards you is abusive, threatening or way past your own normal boundaries. In my case, at different times, it was both. Probably the first came first, then the second. And the second was more clear cut for me….call me picky, but it’s not ok with me for you to threaten my life or send the police to my door bc I ignore a text message (having ignored me for weeks/months at a time) and then want my emotional support or to ‘chat’ to me. Errrr, nope. And like you, Dragonfly, no kids either so that made some of my choices easier to act on.
I don’t have to hate someone, or be angry even, to say Errr, nope to what they bring to my table….I just have to have a clear sense of what is ok in my life and what is not, just as you described. If the other person doesn’t much like it or has the sadz, well how they process and deal with that effect of their own behaviour is their business, isn’t it? Mine is saying Errr, nope lol
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- I think it depends on the type of person the LBS is.
- I think it depends on the type of MLCer you have.
I can tell you one thing. Living with an at home low energy wallower is brutal. I for one am a strong believer in that this type of contact is not good for the marriage you're trying to save. So much damage is taking place on a daily basis and the wonderful marriage you once had becomes some sort of distant memory. It takes it's toll on the LBS who may not even want to reconcile at this point given the damage. And it's not good for the MLCer either because I believe they get stuck in the tunnel and make no progress in their journey.
I believe part of the no contact/limited contact path where the MLCer can be out on their own and left to their own devices, is actually a good thing for the LBS, the MLCer, and the marriage/reconciliation.
Now as for no contact vs limited contact. Jury's still out. I guess I'll find out. But RCR says higher chance of recon with contact vs vanishers, so for those standing for their marriage, I would probably bet limited contact is better, IF you can deal with the emotional trauma.
If you asked me 6 months ago, I was in the 100% no contact group because thats what I needed to heal. Im now in a place of detachment where I dont think that's necessary anymore because Im standing for myself now vs my marriage. I'll probably settle on bare bones contact which would hopefully be better for the MLCer to help them in their journey, as well as leaving a door open to a greater chance of recon if it ever comes to that.
HS has saved my life. But Im in disagreement about the thesis here that we should hold on as long as we can, drag out any D proceedings etc. The faster they get on their way the better (ONCE THE LBS IS READY FOR IT), and the faster they can hopefully find their way home (just one man's opinion). This at home wallower stuff that persists for years is life force destroying.
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I totally agree with what you said Treasur. If our mental health is at stake, it's work to take a distance even if it's not permanent. I am shocked that your xh did that to you. I thought all the time that he just vanished. And yet here you are, I don't sense any resentment from you, even after what he made you go through. That is my goal. I was always my xh's emotional support especially when he went through depression. He couldn't open up to his family about it or his friends. They know he had a burn out but I was the one who saw through the whole depression/burnout. And even after cheating on me, I was the one supporting him emotionally instead of him to me. I was easily sucked into his orbit. Since we stopped contacting each other, it helped me a lot to go back to myself, work on my own issues and feelings. And I think I am finally tired of being in that situation. The fear of living alone is slowly fading. Maybe for me NC worked because I was codependent. I was like a drug addict.
Maybe one day we will contact each other again, who knows. But for me it's not necessary anymore because we don't have kids and I decide not to stand anymore. It's just me.
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I’m not naturally given to anger about things I can’t control, Dragonfly. A lot of my friends wanted me to be angrier bc they thought it would be energising….I get that, it just seems not to be how I’m cut….but sadly there is a lot of truth in the idea I think that depression is anger turned inwards. Looking back, I think I had so many other overwhelming emotions - fear, grief, shock - that I didn’t have space for anger too lol.
But resentment? Oh I had loads of that! I stomped around like a resentful toddler for quite a few years lol. It all felt so unfair bc, well, it was. And it did seem as if the person paying the price - literally and figuratively - was me while my xh and ow tripped off into the sunset as I lay bleeding out in the rubble of my life. I was Rosie Resentment with go faster stripes ha ha.
Your comment made me muse this morning on when and why that changed. And indeed how much of that resentment is left. The best way I can describe it is that, a bit like you describe, there came a point when I just didn’t want to be that person anymore bc tbh it didn’t feel like me. Did those awful things happen? Yes. Were at least some of them done intentionally by my xh and others? Yes. Did I deserve them? No. But I think as I started to slowly heal, my normal factory settings came back, I suppose. Life is good but not always fair. Humans can be delightful and I like them, but some are mad, bad, selfish, stupid and dangerous. The rubble was real and whether my xh/ow were happy or not did not change or fix one bit of my pain or distress. And above all, I felt better the more I felt like me as opposed to PTSD me I suppose.
But I feel a lot of what my xh did to me and my family when life events made us at our most vulnerable was, for me, unforgivable. I don’t have to put much energy into that…it’s the same bit of my moral brain that judges those who abuse children or hurt animals. I don’t get it but I accept it happens and I find it unforgivable and inexcusable. I don’t have to hunt those kinds of folks down and beat them up, but they are not my kind of people. They are people imho to stay far away from if possible….and the reasons for their behaving that way do not change the effects of their actions on others. So, now, I suppose I think well, you do you….but I think your take on you makes you a poor quality and rather destructive kind of human, so I don’t think much of your choices and am happy to move away from them.
I spent 20 years or so of my life really liking and loving the person I used to know as my h. I had no idea that he was even capable of doing some of the things he did. Or how he feels about any of that. But I chose not to hate someone who I’d liked so very much bc that didn’t feel good to me either. I think tbh the resentment also eases the more they move into your rear view mirror, the more the damage becomes something that happened as opposed to something that is still happening, if that makes sense? The more you build and create and tidy up a life that has nothing of them in it, I suppose, where you own your own s$it good or bad. It stops being about them or what they did (eventually). I don’t feel much resentment now - I can be triggered lightly into moments of sadness or fear or loneliness or even a memory of the bewilderment. My life now is different and far from perfect. But I think I see my xh as someone who feels ok creating tremendous damage to others to get what he wanted - whatever that was - and I don’t like people like that. I see them as dangerous actually. And a bit stupid. As I’m writing this, I realise that my biggest residual feeling about my xh is a kind of distaste….on a bad day, that could almost be contempt which is not a wolf to feed so I fight that if it pops up lol. Imho he was foolish to throw away good solid love and respect as he did…and unforgivably cruel in how he did it. We both lost a lot but, now, I think he lost more, much more than I did. I suspect the karma bus really shows up by these kinds of folks having to live with the truth of what they choose to become….but that’s not my circus. With time, truly, I think I see him now as a rather unpleasant stranger in a train lol. I don’t know what happened to him but it didn’t make him a better kind of human, whatever it was!
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Treasur- I agree that they are not better and for me in some small ways that validates that it really wasn’t me but him internally
Dragonfly- my daughter also went NC with her Dad 3 months ago. She recently said “ It's not that I'm not speaking to him out of anger. I'm not speaking to him because I do not want the type of relationship he is willing to offer” I think that sums it up. That doesn’t have to mean forever, but it can or it can mean for now.
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In my understanding and viewpoint, NC is for the benefit of the LBS and our own well being and stability. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ostracizing the MLC. The terrible choices the MLC does has already done that. If this is what helps you, DF, then do it. This is all about you and your growth and moving forward. His role in your present day life ended because of his choices. Now you get to choose what's best for you and your path to peace and happiness. Y
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I think many people us NC as some kind of tool to either punish the mlc’r or as a “hey look at me. Do you miss me now” kind of thing. I think it’s very much misunderstood.
I have in the past been NC for a long period of time. I chose that path for my well being. To be able to fully step away and work on healing myself.
I did this because everytime my phone went off I would shake uncontrollably. I was always on guard waiting on the next round of abuse from xh. Emotionally I could not take that anymore.
I was able to work on myself during that time of NC. That was what I needed. But that doesn’t mean every situation or every person needs to go that route. But some do. As I did.
I sometimes think we put so much emphasis on the mlc’r - what will make them return, how do we pave the way, how do we treat them so they don’t see us as the enemy - and of course for some people it’s how do we make them pay for the hurt they caused. And the list goes on.
Doing that we forget the emphasis should be on US. The LBS. what should we do for US. What is the best way for US to navigate through this. I believe we stay so enmeshed in all the hurt and pain and antics the mlc’r causes that it obscures our own needs and healing to a large extent. We get a front row seat to all the shenanigans and it’s not all easy to forgive or forget. And if affects us negatively.
Whatever contact we choose to have with the mlc’r should be what we as the LBS choose is best for our well being. Not to provoke a certain outcome with the mlc’r.
I have been several different forms of contact throughout this. Depending on where I am at and what I feel willing to deal with.
I am always cautious when someone is telling others that there is only one way to do something and that is their way. That is usually their hurt and choices from that being projected onto you.
I have made decisions and choices and been able to make progress not from people telling me what I should do but from people asking me questions and opening my thought process. Many of those people are in this group. Helping me to think things through and find my center before choosing a path that I feel is best for me.
There is no right way through all this. There is only what is the best way for me, the LBS to move forward and find happiness in this life right now.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And all the people said AMEN!
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I think many people us NC as some kind of tool to either punish the mlc’r or as a “hey look at me. Do you miss me now” kind of thing. I think it’s very much misunderstood.
I have in the past been NC for a long period of time. I chose that path for my well being. To be able to fully step away and work on healing myself.
I did this because everytime my phone went off I would shake uncontrollably. I was always on guard waiting on the next round of abuse from xh. Emotionally I could not take that anymore.
I was able to work on myself during that time of NC. That was what I needed. But that doesn’t mean every situation or every person needs to go that route. But some do. As I did.
I sometimes think we put so much emphasis on the mlc’r - what will make them return, how do we pave the way, how do we treat them so they don’t see us as the enemy - and of course for some people it’s how do we make them pay for the hurt they caused. And the list goes on.
Doing that we forget the emphasis should be on US. The LBS. what should we do for US. What is the best way for US to navigate through this. I believe we stay so enmeshed in all the hurt and pain and antics the mlc’r causes that it obscures our own needs and healing to a large extent. We get a front row seat to all the shenanigans and it’s not all easy to forgive or forget. And if affects us negatively.
Whatever contact we choose to have with the mlc’r should be what we as the LBS choose is best for our well being. Not to provoke a certain outcome with the mlc’r.
I have been several different forms of contact throughout this. Depending on where I am at and what I feel willing to deal with.
I am always cautious when someone is telling others that there is only one way to do something and that is their way. That is usually their hurt and choices from that being projected onto you.
I have made decisions and choices and been able to make progress not from people telling me what I should do but from people asking me questions and opening my thought process. Many of those people are in this group. Helping me to think things through and find my center before choosing a path that I feel is best for me.
There is no right way through all this. There is only what is the best way for me, the LBS to move forward and find happiness in this life right now.
Yes, allllll of this. Thank you TMT for putting it into far more coherent words than mine.
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Agree with TMT. ]
It's all about the LBS and the LBS healing.
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It's been a while since my last update here. I think it's time to do an update.
I am on a holiday right now in my home country. After 5 years of not being able to go home, finally I made it. It was a mix of different emotions, from feeling excited to be able to finally see my relatives and friends again to being nervous about how I was going to tell them about my D. On the way here, I prepared myself on how I was going to explain to them about my current status. I was in distress. It was my first time to travel back home without my exh. I was very emotional on the plane. I couldn't stop my tears. When I got home finally, and saw our bedroom in my mom's house I cried a lot. I considered this trip as the last hurdle in this MLC journey. Facing my relatives without him was very difficult. I was so scared they were going to ask about him, where he was. But I guess they already knew since my ex had been posting pics of the OW, the two of them kissing and being in the hotel. I thought I would be able to tell them that we were divorced but I didn't have the courage. It bothered me for many days that I couldn't find the courage to tell them. I then realized I just wasn't ready, and it's ok not to tell them the story. My relatives were very respectful not to ask me. And I am contented with how it went. For now, I am just not ready and it's ok. This holiday was such an emotional one. I went to those places where I spent holidays with my ex, this time I spent it with my mom and my nephew who was also here on holiday. There were times where I was in tears and I had to run to the bathroom so my mom would not see it. I think it's good to make new memories in those places without my ex. I survived it and I enjoyed the time I spent with my family.
As for my exh, I had to email him during my stay here as we had a joint account that I wanted to close. There was still money in it and it was decided during our D that the money went to me. However, I didn't really know the codes and access to this account, so I had to email him. This was the first time I contacted him after over a year of NC. I was very polite and very neutral too. He wrote back and told me he was very happy to hear from me. At the end of his email, he closed it by saying love and then his name. He gave me all the details I needed to access the account. We exchanged text messages for a bit as it didn't work right away and I needed his assistance. I made sure I remained neutral and my replies were very short. He would send me heart emojis instead of likes on my replies. And that was it. I wasn't as disturbed as before back in April when I got a bday card from him. I just tried not to put any meaning to it anymore.
I enjoyed the rest of my stay here and tomorrow I'll be flying back to my second home. There is indeed life after D and I have become more independent now. I am back to my old self before the marriage. And I am happy I found myself again. So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again.
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So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time.
DF, yes, detachment and a healthy sense of self is a great way to grow and respond to our lives being blown up.
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I hope you can see your own progress as clearly as we can, dear Dragonfly.
It was brave of you to make the trip, brave of you to let the cards fall where they fell emotionally, brave of you to find pleasure in all of those things regardless.
None of us come here believing that there is a life on the other side which can be good. Different maybe but still good, even better in some ways perhaps and certainly a whole ton better than those post BD days of distress and confusion. Which is why it can help so much to borrow a bit of belief and faith from chums here who have been where you were but are not there now. Just like your post will do for someone else reading along here.
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So to all newbies here, things will get better. When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again
when you start seeing yourself again you know you are going to be ok. You also realize just just how far you have come. It’s funny in a not so “funny” way how we wished this never happened, but we can see some positives from it in ourselves. It would be nice to see it come from a different source, but for me that little positive from so much pain is something I like to refer back to in my mind. It’s a much better “grass is greener on the other side “ view of reality for the LBS vs the MLCer non reality “grass is greener “
Great update, DF!!
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Nice update, DF. Yes, there is a life on the other side we can scarcely imagine, but it is there, nonetheless and ours for the taking. We move and grow and change. It's a beautiful thing.
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Nice to hear from you DF!! I can relate to much of what you said about your experience at home. I also live away from my home country and those first visits can be a minefield full of triggers. I didn't have "the conversation" about my separation (divorce came long after) with everyone the first time around, I wasn't ready either. I have to admit, my close family helped spreading the news to some distant relatives.. I didn't see the need for me to have that conversation with everyone, by my second trip many people already knew so the subject wasn't brought up and it made it a lot easier for me.
When I was a newbie, a lot of the veterans here told me the same thing. It was hard to believe life would get better at the time. But it does get better. I like the version of me now. I wish it didn't happen but maybe it happened for me to find myself again.
Exactly how I see it too DF. I quite like the fact that I found myself again but I'm not very fond of how I got here. At the same time, I'm not sure I would be here if what happened, didn't happen... If that makes any sense!! ;D
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I just wanted to reiterate that I am so thankful of the veterans here who served as my guiding star during this difficult process. Your insights helped me find that way when everything was so fuzzy during the time I was still in that limbo.I can never thank enough the people who patiently listened to me here and continued to give their advise. You are all an angel in disguise.
Journaling
Yesterday, I had a session with my IC and while I was on the way there, I thought to myself I would tell her it would be my last session. I felt light and happy and I thought there's no more need to go there. Well, I ended up being teary eyed again. Just when you thought you're ok, there are still things that linger. I told my therapist that I didnt have the courage to tell my relatives about the divorce and they didn't ask me about it either. So I thought there was no need of telling them during the time of my vacation because I wasn't ready. She asked me if it's because I wasn't ready or if I still haven't accepted the reality that we are now divorced. I said to her, I wasn't ready and I knew I would cry in front of them if I had to tell the story. And for me, it shows weakness. We are not used to showing everyone that we're crying. As much as possible you show that poker face that you are ok. That is still something I am working on. But then she pointed out, that this is something very important, to tell my family about it. To make it a reality on that part part of my life as obviously this family is very important for me. I then realized, she was right. I still haven't totally accepted that we are divorced now, otherwise I would have asked my mom to put away the picture frames of my wedding. But I didn't because I wanted it to be there. Gosh, this journey is indeed a marathon. But I am getting there. Telling the rest of my family is the last hurdle in this journey for me.
On the dating front, I've been seeing this guy from a dating app. And for now we're just friends and I am enjoying this part of my life. It's nice to know someone is interested in you. I feel better about myself, I feel more confident. Here in this country where I live in, the whole thing feels real. My therapist also pointed it out to me. But in my home country, I haven't made it real yet. And that is something I am working on right now. Apparently, I am avoiding that part because of my fears of being judged. And she was right. So, my journey continues. Most important thing is I have come out stronger and better.
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DF- I went every week to IC , then every other, then once a month and then I told her I will contact you it I need to talk. I have gone back 2 times. Things that come up I have notes on my phone and I kind of list them so if I do Go I can go over different things that gave me pause. We can be generally doing better and even ok, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have things still hit you.
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Hi everyone, It's been a month I haven't updated here. There's really not much going on in my life right now except work, family and friends. As for that guy I was dating, I just got ghosted from one day to the other. He was someone who would constantly text me even during his work time to somebody who just totally disappeared. Well, the dating world now is totally different from what I used to know. I feel like people just want casual things which for me is really unimaginable. Before BD I would have thought there was something wrong with me and would start running after these guys. But now, I just let them go. It was still a nice experience though but not worth the chase. My friend told me, I was using this guy to forget about my ex or to do a revenge. And she thought I was so desperate to have a relationship. I don't think I am desperate to have a relationship. Just because I don't want to play this casual/situationship $h!te nowadays, doesn't mean I am desperate to have a serious relationship. Yes I would like to be in a serious relationship and not play around with different men. some of you here are very lucky to find a decent partner. With what I experienced, I think it's almost impossible. People treat people nowadays as commodities
As for my MLC front, I had to contact my H this weekend due to some property we have. He just needs to sign a legal document and it's been quite a pain since the land is in my home country and where I live now, the rules are different.. Fortunately, my ex has been cooperative and I hope this will be settled soon so I don't have to contact him anymore. No idead what is going on in his life at the moment, haven't checked his insta anymore. The time will really come when you're not bothered anymore what your ex is doing or who he is with. I cannot believe I would be in a place like this. Today, after texting back and forth regarding this legal document, I told him I hope he was ok. He answered me he was recovering but didn't mention from what. So I thought it was from another accident, but he said from covid and sinusitis. So told him to get well soon and that was it. He never asked me how I was. So it's still all about him anyway. As for me, I don't have that hate feeling towards him anymore. I also cannot say I don't love him anymore. It's like somewhere in the middle. I cannot believe that it's only less than a year since we got divorced. It feels like a long time now.
I've read so many of the newbies here. And I am really sorry that you have to experience this. I was once in your shoes, confused, afraid to make a bad move because you don't want to push your spouse even further. I read so many books, tried to be patient, got hurt so many times. I cried for two years straight almost every day. I was so scared to lose my then H. But you really have no control of your spouse. You only have control of yourself and whatever you do, it doesn't influence the outcome of your MLC spouse. You can bend forward and backward, it doesn't have any effect. It took me maybe 3 years to fully understand that. At some point, you will get tired and you will let go. You learn to survive by yourself and you learn to build a life with yourself. I do not wish this to anybody not even to my worst enemy. It's a very painful journey but if I survived it, you will as well like all the veterans here. You have to go through this to get to the other side. Some were able to reconcile and some didn't. But it's ok you don't. I would choose to be this way again rather than being with that spouse who had no more respect for me. In the end, I learned to save myself first. Eventhough I didn't reconcile with my ex, I consider my story a success story, because I learned to be independent again, to trust myself again, to manage life by myself again after being in a highly codependent relationship. I learned so many things in life, that I thought I could never do. I made new friends and I am still continuing to grow. And I think that's the most important thing.
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Hats off to you! You have come SOOOOOO far in your healing journey. Puts a smile on my face.
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Hello,
So proud of you. As I read your writing, you sense the strength and life coming through.
So told him to get well soon and that was it. He never asked me how I was. So it's still all about him anyway. As for me, I don't have that hate feeling towards him anymore. I also cannot say I don't love him anymore. It's like somewhere in the middle. I cannot believe that it's only less than a year since we got divorced. It feels like a long time now.
Because now, he is just some guy. The connection has been lost. Because of that, you can see him for who he is- nothing more, nothing less. And yes, he is still self-centered.
I've read so many of the newbies here. And I am really sorry that you have to experience this. I was once in your shoes, confused, afraid to make a bad move because you don't want to push your spouse even further. I read so many books, tried to be patient, got hurt so many times. I cried for two years straight almost every day. I was so scared to lose my then H. But you really have no control of your spouse. You only have control of yourself and whatever you do, it doesn't influence the outcome of your MLC spouse.
Great advice and so true. I really feel for the newbies because there is so much shock, grief, and complete bewilderment. You just want some answers that make sense and there are none.
People treat people nowadays as commodities
I disagree. I think that has been going on for a long, long time- the internet just makes it easier to do.
Have a great weekend, you are doing great!
(((Ready)))
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I did the dating thing Dragonfly and I found the same as you have found. I wasn’t necessarily looking for anything permanent or super serious. But geez they could act like grown ups and have a grown up type thing. I found they were either liars and cheats or wanted to move right in or had issues. I can tell you that it was great practice for me and from what you wrote great practice for you as well. To learn to not continue when someone treats me like. That was a very difficult thing for me to learn with my deep seated fear of abandonment.
I finally quit dating. It took too much of my energy. Lol. But I learned a lot about myself doing it.
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Thank you for the trees, ready and too many. I wanted to continue sharing to help the newbies here or those who are not so new here that even if sometimes times get so dark and you don't see any hope anymore or you when you feel so scared about the future, I've been there and you will be ok. Right now maybe it is so hard to believe this but you will be ok, stronger and better even when your marriage doesn't make it. You just have to keep going, keep taking the step in front of you. I was so scared 4 years ago. I couldn't imagine a life without him. I kept holding on to the relationship that was over. I couldn't accept it. I couldn't let go. The more you hold on to it the more you get hurt. Until you realize it's totally out of your control. I guess my divorce helped me to let go and the NC was very helpful for me. It was necessary for me since we don't have kids anyway. It was what I needed to give myself space to see it from a distance. Only then I understood that what my ex offered me wasn't something I wanted. That I was worth more than what he offered me.It was not easy but slowly I learned to let go. One step at a time. Of course, I wish you would reconcile. Everybody who went throught this wanted to reconcile but sadly, a lot here didn't and that's a fact.
Toomany, this guy I was dating had already his own issues. He left his wife 4 years ago with a 5 month old baby and still blamed his ex wife until today for taking his kid away from him. But despite that, I continued dating him because it felt good. I just don't understand why people can't tell you in your face that they're not interested anymore instead of just ignoring you. I was hurt probably because of my abandonement issues from which I'm not fully healed yet. Or it could be my ego, nobody wants to be rejected. But like you said, this is a learning experience for me. I have to battle with my thoughts that's telling me that I'm not lovable or not a worthy partner. At least now, I am aware that this comes from my childhood trauma. It's sometimes very difficult to convince yourself when you go through something like this, that you are worthy of love. Every day I tell myself that what this guy did to me has nothing to do with my self worth. These are his own issues.
This is the only guy that has gone this far with me since my separation and the only guy to whom I opened up again. Yeah, we learn from our experience and this is part of my learning process. I'm still working on myself and it is a struggle especially if you have deep abandonement issues and especially if these come from your own parents. I hope one day, I will learn to really see myself is a worthy person and stop basing my value on how people treat me.
I'm still hopeful that one day, I will meet that person who truly values me and cares for me.
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Hi everyone, the last few weeks I have been feeling very uneasy, not content with where I am now and I guess a lot of frustration and anger. I am aware that healing is not a linear process, however, I still am baffled why I still have these feelings. I wonder if some of you have experienced this. I just feel angry about myself. I feel overwhelmed by the things I have to do at home, plus the job. I am frustrated about myself that was not capable of pushing my masters. I'm frustrated because I feel like I am stagnant. I couldn't get myself do something to improve myself. Also I feel very tired of fighting the current. I feel like I have always been swimming against the current. It's like a wave of feelings. It comes and goes. But lately, it's been bugging me, which means that it's telling me something that I haven't been able to address. There were times where I just cried or I wanted to scream or give up. To be honest what frustrates me the most of I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. At least my ex had been joining these triathlons, and he's accomplished a lot. I am happy for him, and i am not bitter at all. I can't help but compare myself. If I look at myself, I coudln't see anything right now that I have accomplished, except that I am still surviving.
Sorry for ranting. I just needed to let it out and write it here. It helps me to release some of the steam. People would tell me find yourself, look inside and find out what it is that makes you happy. I really don't know how to do that. I don't have a goal in life anymore. I've allowed my life to just float not knowing where it would lead me. Sometimes I feel scared because there's a lot of uncertainties.
I hope some of you can share your experience here . Thank you for reading.
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Dear DF - I am a green pea newbie, so I can't speak from my experience, but your post caught my eye because I have just been visiting with a friend who is 5 plus years from a very difficult marriage break up - not an MLC breakup, but one that was equally traumatic and destructive. She and I talked a lot about recovery, that like grief, there is not fixed process or timeline. And in the same way that building a loving, bonding relationship takes time, so does grieving one. IMO and hers, taking that time is far more healthy, than say, jumping straight into another relationship etc. As long as we don't get stuck in the 'healing phase' (this term is new to me and I am contemplating what this might mean to me personally).
What I wanted to share here, is that towards the end of the five years she had a kind of 'fallow year', when she did very little, except maintain close relationships, be constant for her kids, and function at her job. She did small things and kept 'local'. In hindsight for her, this appears to be her final acceptance phase, because she recently dipped her toe into dating, and has a new partner of 6 months. This is not to give any sort of timeline pressure to anyone, but the sense I got from her, is that when she was in this fallow period, she was a worried she might be stagnating and shrinking her life, but now she sees it as an important time for her to 'reseed' and recover from the exhaustion this journey unleashes. I wonder if this might resonate with you.
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I am aware that healing is not a linear process, however, I still am baffled why I still have these feelings. I wonder if some of you have experienced this.
You are speaking to my soul here. When I'm in the pit it feels inescapable; I'm trapped there forever. I cognitively recognize the feeling can't last but when I'm in the thick of it... it feels like lost in the void is the default--how things are supposed to be--and I can only ever experience snatches of relief. It's terrible. You know this but I'll say it anyway: it gets better. Its grip will lessen. At some future point you'll have trouble recalling the exact feeling. That isn't right now, but going back to basics will help lay the foundation for that time. This is the work.
I just feel angry about myself. I feel overwhelmed by the things I have to do at home, plus the job. I am frustrated about myself that was not capable of pushing my masters. I'm frustrated because I feel like I am stagnant. I couldn't get myself do something to improve myself. Also I feel very tired of fighting the current. I feel like I have always been swimming against the current. It's like a wave of feelings. It comes and goes. But lately, it's been bugging me, which means that it's telling me something that I haven't been able to address. There were times where I just cried or I wanted to scream or give up. To be honest what frustrates me the most of I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. At least my ex had been joining these triathlons, and he's accomplished a lot. I am happy for him, and i am not bitter at all. I can't help but compare myself. If I look at myself, I coudln't see anything right now that I have accomplished, except that I am still surviving.
Yes, I feel all of this. The weariness, the exhaustion, the nonstop tumult that you must constantly tread, the alienation, the disappointment, frustration, pain. No matter what you do it isn't enough. These feelings calcify on you and another bubble bath is not going to wash them off. You do everything "right" and at the end all of those little pieces crumble. You slide right back to the bottom of the staircase with the reward having to climb it again. Every day. The dust bunnies reproduce, the counter seems to accrete patches of hard food, the dust and cobwebs expand like foam. No one around you seems to have these problems, to have any problems. Everyone is complaining in the sunshine while you're forcing a smile in the rain.
Sorry for ranting. I just needed to let it out and write it here. It helps me to release some of the steam. People would tell me find yourself, look inside and find out what it is that makes you happy. I really don't know how to do that. I don't have a goal in life anymore. I've allowed my life to just float not knowing where it would lead me. Sometimes I feel scared because there's a lot of uncertainties.
I pursued a path HARD for something like 15 years. It doesn't bring me the joy it used to. I don't want to discard it but I'm scared. I had a goal, a purpose, a mission and now I do my best to keep the fly wheel spinning, riding the coattails of that past life. I'm tired of drifting. I want clarity. I want drive. I want to jump out of bed eager to get back at it. I believe the dreaded time is required here, as much as I buck and flail and thrash against it. I want it now! But it isn't ripe now. I try to sit with the disappointment and the ennui. Maybe I'll finally learn patience. I'm writing a lot of poetry that might make some people blush. That creative outlet seems to help.
I hope some of you can share your experience here . Thank you for reading.
Thank you for sharing. I feel that I am in a similar place. I'm a little less alone today.
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What I wanted to share here, is that towards the end of the five years she had a kind of 'fallow year', when she did very little, except maintain close relationships, be constant for her kids, and function at her job. She did small things and kept 'local'. In hindsight for her, this appears to be her final acceptance phase, because she recently dipped her toe into dating, and has a new partner of 6 months. This is not to give any sort of timeline pressure to anyone, but the sense I got from her, is that when she was in this fallow period, she was a worried she might be stagnating and shrinking her life, but now she sees it as an important time for her to 'reseed' and recover from the exhaustion this journey unleashes. I wonder if this might resonate with you.
Thank you for sharing this Kaydee. I hope this is just a phase like what your friend had experienced. I do feel that I am stagnating right now. I was a person with a very strong drive into doing something new, mostly learning something new. I was very ambitious. All that is gone. I lost the drive to pursue something new. It's like being contented with where I am now and yet not being contented. It's a very confusing place to be in. When I feel emotional, sometimes I cannot pinpoint what emotion I am feeling. I cannot point my finger to it. I missed my ex at times and at times, I know there's the anger as well. But the anger doesn't stay long. Mostly I feel indifferent. I am very confused right now.
Zarheit, I am so sorry you are also in this situation. I know how frustrating it is. you are right about your analogy with the staircase. There was even a time during my session with my IC that I told her I was totally fine. I feel beautiful and content in life. I feel strong, etc. And then you get hit by this kind of feeling. Like falling how many steps on the stairs. Not from square one but quite a number of steps. I hope this is just temporary. It's only been almost a year since my divorce was finalized. It will be a year on the 14th of this month. Also a year since the last time I saw my exh. Today, while I was walking my dog, I suddenly felt a surge of anger towards him. I just wanted to curse him, his family and all the women who were involved with him. I wanted to curse them all. But I don't even know why I was angry with him. It could come from my frustration, bitterness that he's doing well and making is dreams come true while here I am lost in nowhere. It's a very unhealthy thought, and I don't want to be this way. I want to be a better person.
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DF- I get it. I am in such a better place, but I am alone. My family no matter how hard I try is not healed. I feel I put everyone before me to end up alone and almost like no one cares, yet I have friends ( not near me but many) I have some family ( but not near me ) it’s hard to come to terms with loving someone that can walk away like it is nothing. I try not to think about it because it makes my view of everything around me different. Less hopeful.
I am a happy and positive person, but this can take you to your knees and although we get back up, we still wobble sometimes when we walk this new path. I know for me age has been huge as I am now 61 and I feel like I should be out there taking on the world, but I find myself isolating a lot. Not knowing for sure what to do. Where to start. Making decisions with no one to bounce them Off on. With that said.
I have come to the conclusion that I am still all I was before and probably so much better,so what feels like stagnation is more of a need. A need to come to terms with everything fully. To make sense of it fully as much as I can so I can take on my next decade of life. I hate I was robbed of years and continue to feel robbed as I am unsure where I am headed, but also I am Ok. Im not sad most days, although I have them still. It’s hard not to feel cheated of a life you planned and also to have to go against everything you believe in. The biggest part for me however is feeling at times that I dont know if I ever knew him at all. That can be painful.
So I try not to worry about time and being stagnant. I get out when I can and when I do I have so much fun. So, I know I will figure it out when I am fully ready. I have started just trying to put me first and if I could do anything what would I do with out consideration for anyone else. Not in a selfish way toward others, but a selfless way for me. We deserve to put ourselves first.
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There was a time when I could have written almost word for word what you wrote, Dragonfly. In fact I think I did in some of my long HS meanderings. Can’t pin down the timescale exactly, maybe 2019ish? Certainly post-divorce.
The best way I can sum it up now is that I remembered who I was but I couldn’t feel it or touch it. It was a very strange time and came with a lot of inner turmoil.
What I can say from my own experience is that wishing you felt differently probably won’t change how you feel, but that you will not always feel how you do right now. Those feelings, even the messy muddy nature of them, will take you somewhere else. I don’t know where, you don’t know where yet, but it will. They will evolve; you will evolve. Or perhaps more accurately you will refine yourself as you go.
Again, looking back, I found it helpful to try to talk to myself with a rather kind voice. I had lost a great deal, more than I could have imagined initially actually. A great deal of my existence felt like starting over while carrying big stones up a hill. Being cross with myself about how I did that never seemed to make it better, but being a little kinder to myself about the reality of where I was and that it would evolve bit by bit often did. If nothing else, it gave me the strength to try again the next day lol. But it’s a strange experience to be exhausted by trying while not necessarily very sure about what you are trying to achieve, isn’t it? Other than Not Being Here which seems to not change or be controlled as much as we might wish.
Again, looking back, there was a shift when I somehow stopped linking my struggle with what my xh had done or was doing. Practically speaking, of course, some of where I found myself was caused by his actions/inactions, that’s true, but weirdly my own progress (or not) wasn’t is the best way I can describe it. And when that shift happened, my lens changed.
So, I’m sorry, this stage on your path sucks epically and I remember it as exhausting too. But it will not always be how it is today; your job is to keep walking and be as fair and kind to yourself about the path as you can be.
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Thank you Madluv and Treasur for always giving me an insight from your experience. I'm sorry it took me so long to write back. I felt I needed to distance myself from analysing all the emotions that had been going through last year.
So now, Im ready to journal again.
It's been 5 months since the last time I wrote on my own thread, but I've been reading some of the posts here and sometimes I also answered. To be honest, it made me sad to see newbies here and I try to avoid reading their posts because it just brings me back to the time I was in their situation. That time I considered my worst nightmare that I don't want to visit anymore. I hope you all understand.
As for me, I stopped seeing my therapist. We both agreed that I don't need it anymore and if ever hard times come, she said I was always welcome to give her a call and make an appointment. That was early this year I think. Now, I feel good about myself. I get to know myself again, and slowly I'm getting back that self confidence. Sometimes I can't believe I was able to handle things here by myself and through this experience, it helped me trust myself again. This is a big improvement for me since I got married to my xh. I have become more confident at work I think especially that I have to communicate in a foreign language. I learned not to worry too much about the future and to take things one day at a time. It helped me with my anxiety. Now, I just go with the flow in life. I've also informed my relatives about the Divorce and it gave me some sort of relief. It's like a thorn being taken out of me. They unfriended my ex on all social medias as I told them I would not want them to be in contact with him anymore. Not that I am angry with him but it's because I really don't want him to know what's going on with my life. I'm also dating other people now again and I am enjoying my time getting to know other men. I have to admit, it does make me feel good, knowing that I am still attractive. I also believe I've been closer to my mom and my sisters now than when I was still married. There are good things that came out of that nightmare I had to go through.
I just celebrated my 48th birthday this month. My xh texted to greet me, which came as a surprise to me because I never greeted him on his birthday and when he sent me a card last year I never replied to him. This time when I got his text, I was quite taken a back but there were no more tears. It's just like one of those long lost friends that suddenly greet you out of nowhere. I replied him politely and thanked him. That was it. I believe he is still with the young sporty OW and it doesn't bother me anymore. Once in a while I hear something about him from friends. And apparently from his former and present work colleague, they see him as a very weird person or his life now is just about triathlon, which maybe good for him as he has something to be proud of for himself now. Other than that, I know nothing about him and I am not interested about his whereabouts anymore. I really learned to let it go and with the gift of time it does get better. I could not imagine to be in this place right now two years ago. It was impossible to imagine it. But here I am now, I survived that ordeal.
Life is short to put your life on hold waiting for them or trying to analyse their actions. Indeed you can't do anything about these people. You just let them do what they do and focus on your life. There is nothing you can do to influence them. Their mind is set so whatever kind of destruction they intend to do. Ursa likened it to a tornado, pave the way and let it pass. If you stand in their way, it will just destroy you. I know how hard it is to accept this as a newbie. I coudln't wrap my mind around it when I was new to this. I tried and tried and the more I tried to save that marriage the more he destroyed it. It was never about the marriage or me, it was all about him. And I hope he is happy now with his life to be honest. I hope he truly found that happiness he was looking for. I wish it didn't happen but on the other hand, if it didn't happen,I wouldn't be what I am now.
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It’s good to hear from you dragonfly and I’ve got to say you should be incredibly proud of yourself!! You’re taking all the steps towards healing and building your own future. I wish you all the best and keep going!
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Thank you titleholder. It’s a long journey. It is indeed a marathon. You need to learn to save your energy to get to the finish line. My story may not be what the newbies here would hope for but even if I didn’t reconcile, I still end up in a good place. And to be honest I don’t know if I want to be that old self again. Most likely not. I like myself now. That’s the best thing that came out of all the suffering. Whether I will be in a relationship again or not I know I am happy and comfortable with myself. Id like to have a partner one day but it’s not something that I need. It would be nice but it is also ok without. It’s been almost 5 years since BD. In May it will be 5 years and 2 years D in November. I felt though that I have been divorced for a long time now. For the newbies out there, just hang in there and don’t give up on yourself. There is a way out of this, even though you feel like there isn’t.
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Sending a hug and a bit of a cheer over to you from here, dear girl. My word, you have worked hard and come a long way. And imho - bc most of us understand what you say about how it feels to read new postings - it’s also a gift to share where you are today when you couldn’t have imagined it when you first posted. X
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DF I remember when you were really in pain and struggling and it wonderful to see how far you have progressed for yourself and I am very happy that you are in this place, where your H is no longer causing you great pain. It has been a hard earned road and I hope you enjoy all the rewards of your accomplishment and growth. And I agree with what you wrote, life is too short to put your life on hold for anyone.
And as painful and destructive as the experience of dealing with an MLCer it is an opportunity to grow and find new facets of ourselves. Sounds like you have found new strength and comfort in yourself.
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You sound great DF. I understand on reading the new stories. The beginning of this journey is so devastating that to relive that pain or see it in others, well your heart breaks for yourself and for them.
Where our spouse are now or where they are going or who they are going with I have come to accept makes no difference . We weren’t the problem and OW or OM certainly isn’t their answer. So we carry on. It may takes a bit, but that because we loved deeply. We are rational . We lose ourselves, but then with time and hard work we find ourselves again. Looks like you have been found !!
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DF - the corner has been turned and you've reached a "flat" place in your journey (no longer a constant uphill struggle). Congratulations. It is the result of a LOT of hard work on your part.
As far as your MLCxH goes, well..... the saying remains the same... "No matter how far or how fast you run, there you are." One can not outrun their own demons......
UM
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Hi Dragonfly, it’s so good to hear that you’re doing well! Glad to hear that you’re dating and enjoying the experience. Here’s to wishing, you meet someone fabulous who is worthy of you!
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Hello, DF, it's so good to hear that you are doing so well! It does take a minute to get our bearings from such a shocking betrayal, but once we do, there is nothing but ourselves to slow our journey through healing. You sound fantastic and that is something to celebrate! It is almost impossible to fathom in the beginning, but at some point a lot of us have ended up grateful for the tough lessons learned and the lives we have now. This definitely changes one's perspective to be sure.
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Thank you Treasur, Marvin, Madluv, Ursa, Imgood and BB.
Marvin I remember at the time when you pointed out to me the obvious, I have to say honestly that I was really butthurt. It was hard for me to accept the reality that my exh never cared about me or my well-being anymore. That that marriage was over. I could not accept that I wasn't his priority anymore, that what he was doing was abusing my kindness. And I kept trying and trying. It was indeed a crazy rollercoaster ride. In hindsight, I could have stopped the bleeding earlier but it was hard to see the truth because in my mind this is my husband. Even now I don't think anything has changed with him. And with him I don't think it is just MLC. I think it was a pattern to be contacting the ex and try to flirt or get the high whenever the ex flirts back. Because what he did to me with his ex gf from 15 years ago during the onset of MLC or even before MLC was exactly what he's doing now with his young sporty OW with me. The only difference is I don't take the bait. I'm so done with all these dramas and I don't need it anymore after what I had to go through with him. I'm sure the OW isn't aware he's greeting me on my birthday. somehow, it's a blessing in disguise the OW is with him. She kept him occupied and gave him another high and eventually he stopped bothering me. For as long as there is a supply he will be at an arms length from me.
Also a blessing in disguise for me as I had finally faced all my childhood traumas and understood myself better. My therapist pointed out something that was really very important for me. My parents' separation was not my fault and my husband's infidelity or so called misery was not my fault. I have to remind myself of this every day. My mom didn't leave me because I was not enough, she was unfortunately in that situation where I was almost 5 years ago and had no choice. My ex left me because of him not because of me. Those realisations have helped me a lot in moving on and be confident with myself again. It helped me see my value as a person. Of course it is never over, this is a journey and once in a while I may trip over but then I stand up right away and keep moving. And I thank you all for sticking with me when no one else understood what I was going through. This group was part of my therapy.
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Just a short update about my exh and our former friends that picked his side. My friend who is also friends with these common friend of ours will be celebrating her birthday soon. And she told me today that she is inviting these common friends of ours with whom I had no more contact anymore. And I told my friend I am not really comfortable with them because i cut off the contact long time ago. She told me not to worry since they are apparently not friends anymore with my x because they don’t like him anymore. So he really cut off quite a number of people in that case. And the people he hang out with nowadays are really weird people including the OW. Sounds like MLC then.
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You know there is so much focus on the affair down. But I think they marry up and their insecurities and crisis make them attach to those they feel in their current state they feel they are worthy of. It’s all very sad, isn’t it.
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This is so true Madluv. The OW makes him feel worthy because she’s supporting gis craziness. I remember I always told him I was so proud of what he achieved in his career but he wasn’t proud of himself. And he kept saying he’s doing this triathlon to make me proud of him even though I told him I was proud of him. It’s all projection but of course at that time I didn’t understand it. But anyway, like I said I don’t give much thought of it nowadays. I also didn’t seek to know what’s going on with his life. Today it’s just that my friend informed me she’s inviting our common friend as I am also coming to her party. I don’t think I want to go back to him anymore even if given a chance. The damage and hurt are irreversible or even irreparable. Even if he was indeed in MLC I don’t think I want to risk my life with him again. I know if I am in a new relationship the risk would be the same but I cannot unsee what a horrible person my exh has become towards me. The things he said to me about making sure I die if ever I wanted to commit suicide again was just disgusting especially from a man who said he loved me. There’s just no more turning back to that.
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DF, that was a particularly callous response to you feeling like you couldn't take any more pain. Wow.
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Yes, what a turd.
I wonder what will happen when he either ages, or is injured out of, extreme sport - no more endorphin highs. Will he and Miss Sporty have anything else in common? Rhetorical question for a Just Universe. You have a much more beautiful balance in life DF.
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DF, that was a particularly callous response to you feeling like you couldn't take any more pain. Wow.
Yeah there were so many things he said that was very hurtful. I attempted to take my life right after Bd and I ended up in the hospital. That was how painful it was. It broke me to pieces. After I got out from the hospital he told me if I attempt again I should take sleeping pill while in the bath tub to make sure I die. What kind of human being would say that to his spouse knowing that I wasn’t stable yet at the time he told me that. That was indeed callous.
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Yes, what a turd.
I wonder what will happen when he either ages, or is injured out of, extreme sport - no more endorphin highs. Will he and Miss Sporty have anything else in common? Rhetorical question for a Just Universe. You have a much more beautiful balance in life DF.
That’s a hundred dollar question. Ms Sporty looks very dirty and messy. All she does is film herself while either doing sport or dancing or singing. Maybe it’s unfair to judge her because i don’t really know her in person. But anyway, he chose this life and hopefully he’s very happy with his choices. He seems very happy looking at his posts on social media. Girl is always at his place running every day. He does the same thing, filming himself. For now he is very fit, I don’t know what happens when he gets older and cannot keep up with the OW anymore. It’s not my problem anymore and I’m somehow glad I’m out of it. I had enough of listening to his moanings this hurt that hurt or I can’t sleep. That was so draining. It’s the OW’s job now. He’s very proud of the OW because she apparently encourages him and supports him with his so called passion. 🙈
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He’s very proud of the OW because she apparently encourages him and supports him with his so called passion. 🙈
That's a weirdity - to be proud of someone because of the role they play in upholding your lifestyle. He sounds like he has an exercise (and praise) addiction. Yes, you are better off out of it.
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He’s very proud of the OW because she apparently encourages him and supports him with his so called passion. 🙈
Sorry I meant grateful not proud. 🙈 She supports onsite. Well she doesn’t have to clean, wash and iron his clothes and cook for him so she has all the time supporting him wherever he goes. But anyway, I know his pattern. He’s been with her now for two years, who knows what miracle he’s going to do after five years of filming each other.
My family told me recently I look way better now than when I was still with my x even before BD. My mom told me I was walking on egg shells with me, every action was controlled. I couldn’t be me. My ex had to be the center of my attention around my family otherwise it‘s going to be a fight. Looking back, though my ex was very generous with me and a good provider, around him I couldn’t be my real self because he didn‘t like certain behaviors I had. Maybe MLC was meant to be for me to find myself again and become authentic again. Maybe after all it was a blessing in disguise.
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I do think that is the one bright light in all the darkness. We do seem to realize we lost ourselves and we start to wake up to that. My XH OW/wife also does nothing but be the appreciative recipient of my XH gifting and her new lifestyle. I did everything and she does nothing. I have accepted that I could never be that. So, if he needs someone to constantly praise and validate him, then he is with his match now. It comes at a cost. A cost of their values, their self esteem, their wallet and their family. It’s a huge swap to discard those who love you no matter what with those who love you for what you can do for them. As a friend stated to me recently, he will wake up when it’s to late. Probably on his death bed.
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If they even realize that Madluv. I don’t mine would. He seemed very happy with his life now traveling here and there for the love of his triathlon, maybe after all it’s what he needed. Adrenaline junkies. The life he had with me was too boring as I wasn’t a hard core sporty person. Sometimes I think maybe we weren’t really a match. Perhaps it wasn’t MLC after all. He just really wanted to get out of that marriage and find his true passion. Who knows. I don’t care about the answers to the Whys anymore. O can’t believe I‘m saying it now as I was so obsessed trying to understand why he did what he did.
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It's interesting Dragonfly, I seem to be at a very similar place. Maybe is the "closure" that some LBSs get. A realization that, maybe, this is the way it was meant to be.. I actually said that to someone in RL 2 days ago when I heard that xH and O'Wife bought a house in xH's home town (a place I had 0 interest in) and since she's not working, she runs around cleaning up after xH and his parents.
The person that I was talking to said that, in her mind, it's all about xH's ego. O'Wife needed to be rescued, xH got to be the hero and now he gets a woman that does everything he says.. Maybe that's what he wanted all along and he was never going to get that from me....
I also wish I saw this a long time ago but I think we need to go through the process and be ready for this level of acceptance.
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It’s weird because I think they pic enablers. I also dont require many answers anymore, because the answer is I did not know him. To me he is a covert narcissist and when I look back I can clearly see it, but at the time and throughout I just thought he is insecure and that was endearing. Now, I believe thats what he learned to be. It all still goes back to childhood. Whether major traumas or just and inattentive parent. Most people realize their issues and we spend a lifetime working through our traumas with out hurting anyone, but just working on us and getting better. Then there is the MLCer who runs and escapes instead of looking within.
I also agree with the boredom. To me that is what life becomes and you have to appreciate and be able to sit in normalcy. Appreciate isn’t what they need. The voices are to loud in quiet. Just my opinion.
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Just an update:
Two days ago, I was in a car accident. A guy behind me on the freeway rammed my car because he didn't see that I braked due to the traffic jam in front of me. 4 cars were involved due to this guy's mistake. He literally drove into in full speed catapulting my car into the car in front of me, causing a huge accident. Luckily, nobody was injured including my dog who was in her car sit in the passenger seat at the back. I was in total shock. My car was totalled. Police came and documented everything.
After I informed my family, I also informed my xh because I know he could help me with the insurance as our contact guy in the insurance is someone he knows. After I wrote him he replied right away ( he is in my home country which has a 6 hours time difference so it was night time there). He said he woke up from a restless sleep, implying he felt something bad happened which was my accident. To be fair, he helped me contact the guy at the insurance and gave me instructions how to proceed which is for me a great help as I would not know how to do it and I was still in a state of shock. He was worried about me based on his texts and insisted I see the doctor right away or go to the hospital. Somehow, that old him is still there somewhere. He told me he would keep his phone on so if I needed help, he is reachable which I really appreciate. He tried to find cars for me that I can afford. Times like this I miss our old life. But yes, this is my journey now. And I have to learn to deal with it alone. Somehow when it happened, I asked God, why? I felt like he said to me to trust the process. And so I will. Whatever the reason is, it must be something good for me.
The only annoying part of the whole thing is the insurance will probably only pay a small amount of my damaged car as it is already old. And now I have to look for another car which cost a lot of money especially where I live. It's all because of this guy's fault and now I have to suffer the consequence as well. I haven't even recovered from the accident I had to run around yesterday and today to contact the insurance, go to the doctor as I have sleeping problems now and get a replacement car which the insurance will only pay up to 10 days. The whole thing is stressing me out and times like this I wish I had my husband. Yesterday, I had this feeling that I wasn't allowed to be happy. Just when I am slowly able to get up again and enjoy life and bam! Another unfortunate situation I have to deal with. Im trying to see the good side of it, that I am ok and not hurt from the accident. I could have been heavily injured or even died from the impact. It scares me now everytime a car is driving behind me. I'm also worried everytime I feel happy as something bad would come and counteract it.
So the journey continues. ..
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I'm so sorry D! I can totally understand how you would want a H at a time like this. I was in a near accident a few weeks back and I was upset that I couldn't download it with him, I cannot imagine how it would feel to actually be in one and not have that support. And it sounds like it was a bad one too! Terrifying! I'm glad you and your dog are all fine but I'm sorry about the stress and major hassle.
One thing that occurs to me, you did have some support from him. Yeah, it's not what you would have wanted, but you do have someone who wants to be there, at the end of a phone for you in an emergency and help when he can. It's not what you deserve, but also it's not nothing. I am trying to see things this way myself, when I look at the future with my ex. I feel so cheated - enormously cheated - by what he offers me now, but again, it's not nothing. I think we have to take what we have and find a way to see something positive in it, that's the only way forward really. Maybe in future you will have someone by your side too.
As for you not being able to have happiness, I can understand why it would feel that way. But know this, you DO deserve it and you are already finding it. Hang on, dust yourself off, and keep going. This experience showed that you do not need him when it comes down to it. You are handling this yourself, in a foreign country it sounds like, and you are getting it done. It's a proof point that you do not in fact need him.
What I'm trying to do right now is make a list of what I'm grateful for, what I have, because I spend so much time longing for and being irritated about what I do not have. A lot more time (for me at least) is spent focused on that latter rather than the former. I'm so sorry again you've been thru this and I am glad you posted about it. Glad you're ok!
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First off, I’m glad your ok. I am also glad your XH picked up and helped. Seems like he is not a vanisher. I had an accident 10 mths after my XH left and I texted him and he didn’t even respond to the text. He had just gotten married and I didnt find that out for another 10 mths. Those moments are hard. You dont have that emergency contact. There is some reality at that moment that you dont have that one special person anymore that really cares and your their number one priority. That still is scary to me.
It also does sometimes seem like so much just piles on and you wish that karma bus would head the other way. That is really where I had to grab on to acceptance and just be ok with whatever came my way. I would love if my XH was worried about me to wanted to help. It would at least feel like I had ‘t wasted decades with someone that doesn’t seem to care at all. Maybe thats your bright light in this accident. Of course after the fact you are physically ok.
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Phew! Glad that you and the pooch are ok. Somehow an inattentive stranger causing harm is somewhat easier to process than dealing with an MLCer. Please do get checked out as you may need physical therapy for a strained neck. I got rear ended right after finishing PT for back pain and it set me back to the starting line. The upside was that the accident occurred in a state that allowed for a better therapist. So you may be entitled to more than you think since he was 100% at fault.
That was a bit of crappy luck and not the Universe raining on you. Maybe post on your social media that you need a car due to the accident and someone you know or their acquaintance will offer a private sale of a good condition used car.
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I was in an accident in December that totaled my car and they t-boned me. I completely understand how you feel. It is tough to navigate alone. I had last been in an accident when I was 17 and it was me being stupid and a single car accident. My parents handled everything. This accident was the first one that I had ever had to handle alone. It was a tough place to be and I'm still dealing with some residual issues that haven't fully resolved from it. Just seems to take forever for all bills to be paid and for insurance to fully do what it is supposed to.
I hope you can find a replacement car without too much trouble.
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I'm so sorry D! I can totally understand how you would want a H at a time like this. I was in a near accident a few weeks back and I was upset that I couldn't download it with him, I cannot imagine how it would feel to actually be in one and not have that support. And it sounds like it was a bad one too! Terrifying! I'm glad you and your dog are all fine but I'm sorry about the stress and major hassle.
One thing that occurs to me, you did have some support from him. Yeah, it's not what you would have wanted, but you do have someone who wants to be there, at the end of a phone for you in an emergency and help when he can. It's not what you deserve, but also it's not nothing. I am trying to see things this way myself, when I look at the future with my ex. I feel so cheated - enormously cheated - by what he offers me now, but again, it's not nothing. I think we have to take what we have and find a way to see something positive in it, that's the only way forward really. Maybe in future you will have someone by your side too.
Thank you AL, It was a horrible accident but luckily we weren't injured at least physically. And the first person I thought of when the police started interviewing me was my xh. I wish he was around, as the interview was in a foreign language and when you are in shock it's quite hard to express yourself in a foreign language let alone understanding your legal rights. But yes, I appreciate that the moment I texted my xh, he replied right away and stayed awake until I was more or less OK. That's already a lot for me. Besides, I have my sister and my brother-in-law who came right away to pick me up and bought me dinner. I am so blessed with such a family.
First off, I’m glad your ok. I am also glad your XH picked up and helped. Seems like he is not a vanisher. I had an accident 10 mths after my XH left and I texted him and he didn’t even respond to the text. He had just gotten married and I didnt find that out for another 10 mths. Those moments are hard. You dont have that emergency contact. There is some reality at that moment that you dont have that one special person anymore that really cares and your their number one priority. That still is scary to me.
Madluv thank you. My xh didn't pick me up as he is in my home country right now but he did answer his phone. Until now he's been texting me everyday helping me to deal with administrative things and just giving me advice on cars as I need to get a new car now. Funny though I mentioned to him that I am relieved that my work colleague will help me and will take me to her friend who is a mechanic and works in a car dealership so I can get an advice. My xh said, he was helping me too even if he was afar. I said yes I know and I am very thankful for his effort. And he said but I couldn't make you feel relieved. Which now reminds me what my xh told me at the BD. He told me he couldn't make me proud because he couldn't give me a child or he was not successful in his career. I don't know what that means but it seems like he is still in the midst of his MLC without the monster now.
It also does sometimes seem like so much just piles on and you wish that karma bus would head the other way. That is really where I had to grab on to acceptance and just be ok with whatever came my way. I would love if my XH was worried about me to wanted to help. It would at least feel like I had ‘t wasted decades with someone that doesn’t seem to care at all. Maybe thats your bright light in this accident. Of course after the fact you are physically ok.
My xh was always worried about me I guess. If I needed something even at the height of his MLC he would still come even though he blamed me , part of that old self was somehow still there. Of course he was very selfish, the kind of empathy he showed wasnt the same before MLC. And sometimes at that time I just wanted to kick his face. I am sorry that your xh has totally abandoned you. I cannot imagine how that feels as you had been married way longer than I was.
My family though is worried that now Im back in contact with my xh. They are worried he would try to come back to me and they've been warning me a number of times now. But what can I do, I needed his help with finding a car. He was my run to person when I was in a big mess and I guess that part never changed. I just trust his opinion.
Phew! Glad that you and the pooch are ok. Somehow an inattentive stranger causing harm is somewhat easier to process than dealing with an MLCer. Please do get checked out as you may need physical therapy for a strained neck. I got rear ended right after finishing PT for back pain and it set me back to the starting line. The upside was that the accident occurred in a state that allowed for a better therapist. So you may be entitled to more than you think since he was 100% at fault.
That was a bit of crappy luck and not the Universe raining on you. Maybe post on your social media that you need a car due to the accident and someone you know or their acquaintance will offer a private sale of a good condition used car.
Thank you ftt. I had a check up yesterday and the doctor said it looks good. Hopefully it stays that way. I'm still very tired though and still have a strained neck and shoulders probably also from stress. It is tough to be in this kind of situation because you only have yourself. I mean I have friends helping me but at the end of the day, I have to sort this mess myself even if it's not my fault. The medical expenses and therapies will be covered fully by my accident insurance which is paid by my employer, so that's the least of my worries. The only worry I have now is getting a new car. It's so hard not to get fooled by car dealers. It's a dirty game.
I was in an accident in December that totaled my car and they t-boned me. I completely understand how you feel. It is tough to navigate alone. I had last been in an accident when I was 17 and it was me being stupid and a single car accident. My parents handled everything. This accident was the first one that I had ever had to handle alone. It was a tough place to be and I'm still dealing with some residual issues that haven't fully resolved from it. Just seems to take forever for all bills to be paid and for insurance to fully do what it is supposed to.
I hope you can find a replacement car without too much trouble.
Thank you FW. I'm sorry to hear you still have issues from your accident. I know how hard it is to handles things like this by yourself. Sometimes, I wished my xh was still here with me. I found a car today and I was in a lot of text exchanges with my ex as I didn't know if this car is good or not. At least there he's been helping me a lot.
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Just trying to catch up on posts. I’m sorry you have been dealing with the car accident aftermath but so glad you are okay and the ex is helping you navigate finding a car and being supportive. I can relate to feeling like every time you start to think things are getting better something else happens and throws you for another loop. It feels so unfair.
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Madluv thank you. My xh didn't pick me up as he is in my home country right now but he did answer his phone
Thats what I meant by glad he Picked up “the phone” :)
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Sorry Madluv, I must have misunderstood you. :-) Yes, I am thankful somehow he still picks up his phone and answer me.
I just wanted to share this here. As I was exchanging texts with my xh, I mentioned to him that I felt relieved that a friend of mine from work is helping me with the whole finding a new car saga. He xh then answered, he too was helping me even when he was far away but he can't make me feel relieved. He was like asking for validation from me. I tried to reiterate that I was indeed very thankful for him for giving me tips on which car to buy. He then said ok. He said to keep him updated if I wanted to share. That was all my interaction with him and now back to being quiet.
I went back to the garage where my car was towed to bring the winter tires and when I got there the car wasn't there anymore. It was transported somewhere either they will fix it or just dismantle it and take the good parts. I felt so bad because I wasnt able to say bye to that car. It was a part of me and that car witnessed my lowests and my highests. It was hard to let go of that car and I felt guilty that I couldn't say bye to it. It was the last thing that connected me to my previous life with my ex.
I realized my grieving of that marriage wasn't over yet.
Now, I have found a new car. It's not entirely new as it was previously owned by someone. I just hope everything will start to fall into the right place.
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Wow, DF what a shock that must have been.. I'm glad to hear that you're okay!
I can totally imagine that an event such as this sends you spiralling back a bit and that it brings up feeling you thought you processed. Grieve isn't linear and these feelings coming up will eventually help you proces everything further..
Take care! <3
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Thank you titleholder. I just feel like my life right now has been going through some sort of restructuring that includes letting go of the previous life. It’s like time to start a new life without my x anymore. It’s not something I planned to do it feels like nature is doing the work. Something is going on in my life that is moving towards something new. I can’t explain it but a voice keeps telling me to just trust the process. It’s not literally a voice otherwise I would sound crazy. I know this is something good. It’s not easy but it’s going to renew my life and rid me of the extra baggage I‘ve been carrying that I don’t need anymore.
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I have always hated the term everything happens for a reason ( specially after the death of my daughter) but sometimes things do happen to maybe place us where we are mean to be. To let go and move forward. Maybe that was this accident. I often wonder. Maybe when we dont know we need to let go of something the universe takes care of that for us??? Hmmmm
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I’m with you Madluv. I also don’t like when someone tells me things happened for a reason. I hate to admit it but things do happen for a reason. Sometimes things have to change for our our betterment but most of the times we don’t want changes because it makes is uncomfortable and scared. Anything that’s new scares me and Id rather stick to what I know even if it’s not healthy anymore or not good anymore because I don’t want to stir my life. This is exactly what happened when my ex started hurting me (not physically) but emotionally and mentally. Even if I knew it was not healthy and it was destroying my health, I stayed longer than necessary because I was scared of change. Looking back, I realised I grew a lot as a person. I am more confident with myself. I learned how to deal with things when something doesn’t work. And I know this whole accident was to force me to let go of that car. I got so attached to that car because it saw me when I was suffering from the breakdown of my marriage, it saw me at my worst and it saw me starting to climb up that $h!te hole. I felt safe in that car. It brought me to work and back home. It was a part of me. I still miss my car like missing a person that died. You are right the universe will do the work if we can’t do the change ourselves. I believe in this. Whatever is ahead of us, perhaps we just need to trust the process. It can be painful now but it will be rewarding. There’s a saying in my home country when we are faced with adversity we always say, life is like a ball, sometimes you’re up and sometimes you’re down. The good thing is if you’re down, you won’t always stay down. Sometimes I’m still scared living by myself. Scared of not being able to afford the life here mostly but I try not to dwell on that. Sometimes I wished I had someone I can rely on, share my fears or someone who can reassure me when I’m scared. My ex used to do that and I miss that from him. What this whole MLC taught me is that I can stand on my own feet. I can trust myself that I can do things my ex used to do for me. For that I am proud of myself. We should all give ourselves a pat on our shoulder because even if we were treated in the most horrible way by our spouses, we didn’t only survive it buy we are striving. Whoever we are now is definitely better than whoever we were before.
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Hello,
It has been a while since I have posted on your thread. Really sorry to hear about the car accident. Most important thing is that you are okay.
As I was exchanging texts with my xh, I mentioned to him that I felt relieved that a friend of mine from work is helping me with the whole finding a new car saga. He xh then answered, he too was helping me even when he was far away but he can't make me feel relieved. He was like asking for validation from me. I tried to reiterate that I was indeed very thankful for him for giving me tips on which car to buy. He then said ok.
It still goes back to him. He wants to be the only knight in shining armor. Can't share the limelight or do something to support someone without being praised in return. It really makes things with him seem so transactional.
What this whole MLC taught me is that I can stand on my own feet.
Exactly and you have grown as a person beyond what your ex could do for you. You now know that regardless of your situation, you will be just fine.
There’s a saying in my home country when we are faced with adversity we always say, life is like a ball, sometimes you’re up and sometimes you’re down. The good thing is if you’re down, you won’t always stay down.
I like that saying and I am going to use it!
Keep going strong and continue to be your own positive force!
(((Ready)))
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Ready said EXACTLY what I was thinking here:
It still goes back to him. He wants to be the only knight in shining armor. Can't share the limelight or do something to support someone without being praised in return. It really makes things with him seem so transactional.
It is still all about
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExM3dla252bzM4N2lmc3BjaTZteGJrejh1dWloeWRsa2VmaGFjdGV5ZSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MdpaBNZurKfJfhICOB/giphy.gif)
The version of your saying that I grew up with is"Some days you are the fire hydrant, some days you're the dog.... ":D
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I like that saying URSA.
Thank you Ready. I would not have imagine I would be in this place now five years ago when I was given the BD. That was 5 years ago, how time flies. Looking back, I could picture myself at BD, so scared of the future, so frightened of being alone. My x was on the other hand telling his mom he was happy being freed. Good thing though is he was still willing to help me in terms of asking his perspective when it came to buying a car. That was quite a struggle for me to do alone, although if I had no choice I guess I would stilll end up making the right decision for myself. I think my ex would never recognize me now. I've changed so much as a person. Mostly being my old self or even better than my old self before I met him. It was a scary journey to take but like what all of you said to me here in the beginning, I will be just fine with or without my ex.
As for my xh, he seemed to have found his happiness. Unlike some of the MLCers here, his obsession is sport instead of drugs or alcohol. The way I see it, it's all about proving to the world that he's good at something. Maybe it's a good thing that finally he can be proud of himself for all these achievements. I wonder though what happens if he's done all these triathlons or if his body cannot take it anymore. With the amount of stress his putting his body through from all the intensive trainings, I guess at some point you would realize you can't anymore. He's not getting any younger and he told me he had a lot of medical bills that he could deduct it from the taxes. I reckon he must have been to the doctor a lot of times. I just hope he's happy with the choices he made. Although there's still that tiny part of me that says I hope he suffers LOL.
I wonder still if it was all worth it for him. I don't think this question will ever be answered.
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As for my xh, he seemed to have found his happiness. Unlike some of the MLCers here, his obsession is sport instead of drugs or alcohol. The way I see it, it's all about proving to the world that he's good at something. Maybe it's a good thing that finally he can be proud of himself for all these achievements.
Exercise addiction is a thing. Comes with it's own damage alas. If what he does is obsessive, that is.
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Agreed, KD. I like to run, as do a couple of other HS members like Watcher. But when you're middle aged you need to make sure the level of exercise isn't going to ruin your body.
Like any activity, doing something as a healthy routine is great, getting obsessive about it is, well, obsessive and unhealthy!
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KD and Biscuit, I totally agree with you both. I also like to do sport not regularly as most of the time I am exhausted from work but I feel good when I do it. But I think as you get older too much of it is unhealthy. When he was still living with me he trained every day at lunch and in the evening during the week and anyway the whole weekend. He had all sorts of problems with the calf, the back and sleeping. I don't think it got better as he told me he had a lot of medical bills this year. The 30 plus year old OW is the same or even worse. I just saw she is now on a new craziness running (with a buggy with her clothes inside ) everyday and sleeping anywhere she stops. She slept on the ground next to a building in her sleeping bag. Or in the forest somewhere in her tent. I am sure this is not what my xh enjoys doing. Sleeping in a tent is a hell hole for him because he is very scared of spiders and second he is very fuzzy with sleeping mattress let alone sleeping in a sleeping bag. When I did camping with him, he made a huge drama because the air mattress was not comfortable enough blah blah blah. So yeah this is one of the MLC craziness that until now I am still surprised. Or do they just totally change? Sometimes though I think maybe this is my xH. All those years together was just a role play for him. I remember that when he was in his 20s he also quit his job and just went travelling for a year, looking for adventure. maybe this is just a repeat this time in his 40s. I was just a collateral damage unfortunately. It's a cruel behavior, like bulldozing the innocents. I'm not saying I'm an angel as I also have my shortcomings as a human being and with my family background, I definitely was co dependent. I realized that after years of therapy. However, I would never be able to hurt someone to that extent. I'm glad I'm out of the $h!te show. That was 3 years of torture.
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Just journaling:
3 days ago my x texted me and asked me if I will get my new car this coming Monday. So I told him that the dealer of the car was acting inappropriately with me through his email, addressing me like we have been friends for a long time. My ex acted like my knight in shining armour and told me that he can call the guy and tell him off or he can call his boss. He also told me he could come with me when I pick up the car to show the guy that I am with a man. And I should insist the guy calling me by my last name (formality sake), though we agreed we call each other by our first name. He was suddenly very protective with me. And this is coming from the same person when he was still my h who told me 5 years ago that I should sleep with another guy and that he was sure many men are lining up to sleep with me. Do not get me wrong, it was nice of him to bring that to my attention that this guy was obviously inappropriate. But I'm just astonished as to the behavior of these MLCers in general. I thought, this guy is suddenly so protective with me, the same person who hurt me so much. How is that possible?
The other day, I asked him about travelling to Egypt as a woman by herself and what he thinks about it. He was very helpful with his insights which up to this day I love about him. Even if he was workng he took time to answer my questions. Then he texted me that he just came back last week from a trip to my home country. And he told me he ordered the foods that I used to cook for him or my family used to cook for him. He told me that it was never the same. It was indirectly saying he missed the food that I used to prepare him. He's been to different places in my home country except the region where I come from and he couldn't find anything that came close to how I prepared the food. That was somehow a nice talk. All the while I thought he must have been enjoying his life now. So I asked him how he was. He told me he needed to have hip replacement and I thought this must be a result of the whole ironman thing. At some point you'll get confronted by the things that come with age. As for the OW, she's been running for days now every day to reach from one country to another. Sleeping anywhere she stops in a small tent and taking a shower in any creek or river she finds. I don't think this kind of lifestyle would suit him from the kind of person he is. I don't know if they are still together or not, but they used to be so lovey dovey in the beginning way back in 2022 when he moved out from my apartment, every day posting at each other social media flirty messages or pda pictures. Now that has ceased to exist somehow.
For me, I guess I continue to move forward. I would consider us maybe starting to reconnect. The anger that I had for him has slowly disappeared. I guess, time does heals everything. I don't forget what he did but I also don't hate him anymore. Perhaps we are reconnecting.
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Wow, a hip replacement. Who knew the karma bus could shape shift?
I am glad that you are able to have a calm conversation with him and that he showed his decency in regards to how the car salesman was behaving. Am not so sure that time heals everything, but ever so glad that your anger has dissipated.
There is something curious about the two of them running and running- running toward something or running away???
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The OW calls herself a hedonist. All she does is run while filming herself smiling. I don’t know how genuine those smiles and laughters are . But she is not my problem and I don’t give a hoot about her. My ex I think probably running from the reality that he’s getting old trying to prove to himself and others he can do it. Who knows what’s going on in his mind. Have to admit thag I felt proud when he said my food was way better than the ones he had in my home country. I told him because I am a good cook and he agreed. He insisted he could accompany me getting the car but I just ignored it. I don’t know if it’s way of wanting to see me. I thought maybe not a good idea at the moment as I‘m not honestly totally out of the woods yet.
I have no idea if he and the OW are still together as OW did not accompany him to the last competition he did in my home country or maybe she can’t afford the trip. But that’s not my concern anymore. For as long as he’s happy with the decisions he made, I‘m happy for him. At least unlike others he’s not monstering to me anymore and if I need something he seemed to be ready to help if I asked him.
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I thought of writing an update here although not much has been going on with regard to my xh.
So here it is. Lately I've been checking on the OW social media and my xh's. At the beginning of their relationship, right after he moved out from my apartment back in January 2022, my xh and the cOW were actively posting on social media pictures of their kissing scene, them sleeping together and them OH so in love. Everything they did together was documented with either pictures or videos. My xh seemed to be in seventh heaven on this pictures and videos. I have to admit, I was so hurt and I couldn't even look at those pictures and videos that time. Nowadays, it's just the cOW who is very active on social media. I've done some snooping around and I noticed that she was not coming to my xh's apartment (our old apartment) anymore since June this year. The cOW is now doing things by herself or sometimes with other young men, perhaps her age. Same content though, running, swimming in the creek in her underwear, smiling at the camera. Usually she just filmed herself looking Oh so happy. On my xh's camp, his social media is quite very quiet lately. Not as active as when their true love story started. The last one he posted was when he was in my home country. So if the are not together anymore, their Lurv story lasted for almost 2.5 years and now all the butterflies are gone. What a tragic one as they seemed to be so in love in their pics and videos. My xh wished to have a woman as sporty as him and someone that was from the same country as him, when he complained at BD that we were not compatible as I wasn't sporty enough for him and we came from different cultures. Looks like that didn't work either. But who knows if he has another supply this time. I wouldn't be surprised if he moved on to the next one in line.
As for me, I think I'm getting used to being alone with my dog. Sometimes the man I am dating comes to my place and we do things together. Lately, I have been thinking of taking a break from this relationship. I think we are just not compatible and he's got so much baggage as well that he hasn't actually addressed yet. Or maybe I think I am not ready for a new relationship. It just got harder after my separation. I realized I've always compared him to my xh before he had the crisis. Besides, I also noticed in me that now, I am very cautious with my emotions. I try not to get too close as I don't want to fall in love with someone or get too attached. Perhaps, I'm just scared of getting hurt again to that extent. This year in November it will be two years already since I got divorced and last saw my xh, and it's been 2.5 years more or less since we finally separated for the last time. It feels long ago when in fact it wasn't. It's been 5 years since the catastrophic BD. I can't believe I've come this far. If I look back, I remember myself so scared of moving out, being alone in a foreign country, so many uncertainties. I remember the pain that I felt not just emotionally but also physically, being in fetus position in my bed, waking up at 3 in the morning wishing it was all a nightmare. I lost 10 kilos in a month and couldn't even take food anymore. I went to work like a robot trying to function as normal. Now that's all in the past. Thanks to my family and friends and the people here who patiently walked me through the whole journey and made me understand that it was not my fault, that none of it was my fault. Years of therapy has helped me a lot to address my own childhood traumas to better understand myself. Once in a while, I still cry especially when I am reminded what I had to go through. Those moments are very rare now. Back then I remember I told myself I wish God would take away this pain because I couldn't take it anymore and I wondered if I would ever stop crying. And there are times when I still miss my xh, the laughters and jokes we shared together, the travelling we did together. I missed those times. And when I am nostalgic sometimes I forget what he did to me which is sometimes quite dangerous because I start to forget the bad things he did to me. And today, looking at the cOW's social media, it reminded me of how cruel he discarded me and how selfish he was. I need those reminders to not to put him on a pedestal again. Like a reality check. I don't think I am totally over it though it has been 5 years since BD. I guess it takes a while till you get to that place where when you get reminded you don't dwell so much time in those memories anymore whether good or bad. I still believe, there's a reason why certain people are taken away from your life. I lost my biggest love, but I also gained friends and most importantly I've slowly found my true self again. Not the kind of ending I would wish for myself in the beginning of this crisis but I'm glad I survived.
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I don’t think you ever get over a trauma. You move forward. You adjust, but like any trauma it stays with you. Everyday it’s with me, but now it is about the trauma and not about the MLCer. Everything about our life together is so tainted now. I will say I am just now in a place where I could consider getting in a relationship. I had to get over him. It took a bit. Also, getting over what was done to not have that affect a new relationship. Seems like maybe thats what your realizing. Maybe your relationship now was your transition to someone who will turn out to be your forever. I finally realize I dont need anyone now . Anyone who comes into myself will just be an add on in my life.
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Perhaps you're right Madluv, the trauma will stay with us but I guess I learned to accept it especially my childhood trauma and I better understand myself and learn to be more compassionate with ourselves. That trauma my xh has caused me, will probably still lingers on. The fear of being hurt again like that. I guess I am a bit hypercautious at the moment. I know for sure now I haven't fully gotten over my xh. It does take a while. I know it is unfair for this guy I am seeing right now, and that's why I am thinking of having a break until I really can say like you said Madluv that the next relationship will not be affected by what I went through with my xh. If that is even possible. I don't know if I can still trust somebody like that or love somebody like that without thinking at the back of your mind that I might get hurt again. But you are right, you should be at that point where you are content with being with yourself and anyone that comes along is and add on to that contentment in life.
What I feel though now is peace and quiet. I don't have to deal with and MLCer anymore, I don't have to worry about whether he's going to monster, ignore me, or is in contact with his so called other women. That was very exhausting. My mind was so noisy that I couldn't hear myself anymore. I would never wish this to someone not even to the person I hate the most. I hope you continue to heal Madluv and I hope one day, like the others here, you will meet that person who will love you for all your good sides as well as your flaws.
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Exactly!! We truly were also put in a fog of another making. I also feel so much more ME and definitely more at peace. I hate the person I loved the most was so capable of this. Thats the trauma, but he did and there is no taking it back or reversing it. I have had ex boyfriends from my past contact me and tell me what a fool my XH is. That has been comforting to know decades later my other big relationships see my worth and defend me. It does let me know that this is not normal and we can trust again. We will never ignore the red flags again!
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Hello,
That trauma my xh has caused me, will probably still lingers on.
Yes, and that is why you need to be guarded in your interactions with him.
The other day, I asked him about travelling to Egypt as a woman by herself and what he thinks about it. He was very helpful with his insights which up to this day I love about him.
I would be very cautious in my interactions with him. First of all, he likes to be the center of attention and the knight in shining armor. The other thing is his bad habit of returning back to exes who need his support. All of this is based upon his past practices and he has shown no inclination to change. You know the man better than I do, but just be careful as he can inflict even more trauma on you now.
Lately I've been checking on the OW social media and my xh's. At the beginning of their relationship, right after he moved out from my apartment back in January 2022, my xh and the cOW were actively posting on social media pictures of their kissing scene, them sleeping together and them OH so in love. Everything they did together was documented with either pictures or videos. My xh seemed to be in seventh heaven on this pictures and videos. I have to admit, I was so hurt and I couldn't even look at those pictures and videos that time.
Of course the first few months are great. All the hormones are being released and everything just seems so new and exciting. The hedonistic is an interesting concept. It fits in perfectly with the MLCer mindset that everything is about me and what I want. How many times has the LBSer heard, "I'm tired of making others my priority, I am going to make this all about me." The thing is that she was fine as long as she was doing her thing. He got tired and dropped out of the picture and she is still doing her thing. Does that even remotely sound close to the makings of a healthy and wholesome relationship? The thing is that you don't want to get drawn into their drama or their lives at all unless you are a licensed therapist and paid to help them.
As for me, I think I'm getting used to being alone with my dog. Sometimes the man I am dating comes to my place and we do things together. Lately, I have been thinking of taking a break from this relationship. I think we are just not compatible and he's got so much baggage as well that he hasn't actually addressed yet. Or maybe I think I am not ready for a new relationship.
Dogs are great. I have a real bad little dog that is spoiled beyond belief and I will take her company over a bad relationship every time. You are not going to find Mr. Wonderful on your first try. And yes, don't compare anyone to your ex before the crisis. That is only setting up everyone for disappointment. Take you time and build a strong life on your own. Find joy in just being you.
My mind was so noisy that I couldn't hear myself anymore.
Perfect line. You need the noise in your head to be calm so you can actually relax. Sometimes, I find myself going so fast in my own head that I just need to stop and breathe. You are getting there and you should feel proud of yourself.
Have an amazing day,
(((Ready)))
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Nodding along with everything you're saying DF.. The betrayal trauma is something that is really hard to come by. I also agree with Ready that finding somebody who suits you will take time. It's a thin line to walk on..
For my own perspective I've learned that sometimes the healing of trauma and a new relationship can go hand in hand, but then it's important that you find a partner who is willing to accept your past and give you space and room to talk about that trauma in rebuilding your relationship together. I'm very lucky to have found somebody who is giving me room to grieve and rebuild and out of that space we're building a solid relationship.
If you feel that he's not adressing his bagage of willing to talk about his past and that there's no room for you to talk about yours then I totally agree that it's good to think about if this is the kind of relationship you want.
You're doing good DF! It's hard rebuilding your life but you're taking it step by step and the fact that you're getting out there and are dating, enjoying your own life together with your dog, that's good!
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Just journaling
No update about MLCer as I don't have much contact with him.
On my side of the street, I have finally put a closure with the person I was seeing. I realized we really had nothing in common and I saw there was no future for us. I should have done it earlier but I was worried about hurting someone's feelings. It was a relief when I was finally able to do it.
Now, I want to ask those who have divorced and have moved on whether with a partner or not. I don't know if this is still part of grieving or something is not right with me. I have been separated from my x for almost 3 years now and divorced for almost 2 years now. And yet, I have these episodes where I feel very lonely and sad and to be honest I miss having my x during these times. I realized today that it is usually triggered when I have a argument with my sister or my mom. For example, yesterday while hiking I had an argument with my sister as she was treating her husband like $h!te while other people are hearing it. It was just constantly negative talks while we were hiking and I couldn't handle listening to her anymore. I went a different way and left both of them and continued the hike with my dog. It was actually very calming the moment it was just me and my dog. My dog was happier running in the fields. But somehow when I got home, I just thought to myself what kind of family I have, the childhood I had and everything that happened to my life. When I'm feeling down I tend to focus on the bad things that happened to me. Starting from my childhood, my mother gave me so much responsibility of an adult when my father left us. I was just in primary school and looking back it was way to much for a child's brain to understand the whole situation and to cary that responsibility of taking care of my younger siblings. I filled in the shoes of a parent while my mom had to work. Ever since, I wanted to escape from that situation. It continued until I was an adult. I had the responsibility of financing for my siblings college education. It was such a heavy load I had on my back. Of course I had happy moments during my childhood when I would spend the summer holidays with my cousins. But I felt like my childhood was stolen from me by my own parents. Then when I got married the only thing I wished for was to be able to have a child and that was not given to me. And finally the last nail to the coffin was my marriage. I just felt like my life was just full of suffering. It feels like I am being punished or cursed. I'm scared to be happy because Im scared something bad will hit me afterwards. Somehow, I am still very sad my husband is not here with me anymore when I'm feeling like this.I miss his presence so much but I also know that is not possible anymore. For the last couple of months, I've been thinking a lot about him. I've searching online even how long does grieving last. Do you really truly move on from divorce or do the pain and longing linger on even after years? How do you move on? For those of you who have been on this journey for a long time, when did you realized that you have truly moved on and let go of your past? I remember my coworker told me it took her 7 long years until she could finally say she had no feelings whether anger or love for her ex.
As for MLCers, sometimes I wonder how they can continue to live their lives as if nothing happened. I know it doesn't make any difference to my circumstances but sometimes I wish to know if he is truly happy with the decisions he made in his life. My ex looks very healthy and very happy when he sent me a video of himself while vacationing in my home country. He looks very at peace. And honestly I was jealous and it irritated me a bit. I shouldn't feel this way and I should be happy for him but I can't help but remember the things he made me go through.
I would be happy if you could share your what you went through a couple of years after divorce. How was it for you? I know everyone is different but I think if helps a lot to see any similarities knowing you're not alone in this.
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DF fwiw I had similar feelings and on rare occasions I can still feel that way and I am 7+ years out. It does vary with people but I believe it is absolutely normal to have these "moments." We who actually were emotionally present and had formed a bond with our spouses can't just simply "turn the ship around" as the metaphor goes. It takes time. But I will say where I am today and for the past few years my W just doesn't carry that kind of heavy weight and I no longer feel sad and alone as I used to in the first few years.
So hang in there, be kind to yourself. Maybe you are not ready for a relationship, maybe it was not the right person. I have been with the same person for 5+ years now and I know that it took a while to get closer. But then again she is someone who is constantly growing and working her side of the street as it were.
As for the MLCer my W can have moments where she looks like her old self, even happy. But I have semi regular contact with her, and we talk regularly and she is still stressed, unhappy and searching. I don't believe that their pain and damage just simply can go away.
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I'm scared to be happy because Im scared something bad will hit me afterwards.
This to me is a really big important realization. It’s one that resonates a lot with me, not so much being parentified, but being adultified and very much robbed of childhood. So that, along with I’m scared to feel safe because the second I feel safe, danger always shows up. I realized that the only times I ever felt safe, I made myself feel that way, it was not from an external source, and a lot of my life was not safe, and that’s why feeling safe with another person is harder for me. I am willing to be extremely open but I need someone who is willing to let me sometimes (not always but especially for big moments) fumble through a lot of tangled confusion to get to the core of what I’m feeling.
What’s happened for me through a lot of work is that I now realize that I deserve happiness and I deserve safety and security. Not only do I deserve it, I want it. I really want it. And I was always afraid to ever even say that out loud so that is a major breakthrough. So just a shout out from me for being able to make a statement like the one you made, because a lot of people don’t have that insight into themselves.
What changed for me is that I know that bad things do happen and could still happen but that doesn’t change the fact that I can be happy and I can be valued and if anything bad happens after that, it doesn’t negate my value or take away the happy moments that came before. It’s just that life unfolds and different things happen and whatever happens doesn’t wipe out what happened before. So if I have an experience and I’m happy in the moment, then whatever I was happy about has happened and nothing can take it away. I got to experience it. I will grieve its loss if it ends but I still had it and was happy during it. No matter what happens next, I had that happiness. So I really hope that I get to experience that. And I try (not always successfully) to avoid lamenting that I haven’t ever gotten to experience it.
The bad from the past doesn’t have to bleed into today. If you start there, it’s one step towards not being scared of being happy.
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On my side of the street, I have finally put a closure with the person I was seeing. I realized we really had nothing in common and I saw there was no future for us. I should have done it earlier but I was worried about hurting someone's feelings. It was a relief when I was finally able to do it.
I'm feeling ya there... I imagine we can be more sensitive to inflicting sadness on others after being on the bad end.
Now, I want to ask those who have divorced and have moved on whether with a partner or not. I don't know if this is still part of grieving or something is not right with me. I have been separated from my x for almost 3 years now and divorced for almost 2 years now. And yet, I have these episodes where I feel very lonely and sad and to be honest I miss having my x during these times.
Somehow I didn't realize that we are on such a similar timeline; I think I'm just a few months ahead of you. I still have moments like that and had one today, in fact. I don't even know why today's happened. It's usually when I go on a trip to somewhere new or experience something new, because XW and I liked to explore. Although that's also true of the last serious girlfriend I had before I met XW, so I don't know why I don't think about the girlfriend as much as XW. I guess because gf and I had key differences that made marriage a no-go, and XW was finally someone I could see being with permanently. I do have friends I hang out with from time to time, but it's just not that same connection.
I also have that fear of "the other shoe dropping" when things are going well. I think I tend to plan for contingencies or emergencies. I didn't spend a lot of money when I was with XW because I was essentially saving for retirement for both of us.
I don't have any answers, but am writing to say it's not just you.
JB
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DF33,
Two years out was when I first began to have some days where I didn't cry. This all takes a long time, but it does get better.
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I, personally, don't think grieving is a linear process. My father died in 1987, my sister in 2007 and I still have to stop myself when I want to share something with them or ask for advice. And then, of course, I feel sad. For me XH is similar since who he was for me no longer exists.
When someone was the person you normally went to, talked to, sought solace from and they aren't there anymore, it's sad. Sometimes there is no one else you can talk about some specific thing with. It leaves me feeling very empty and alone. I suppose a person who has found someone else that is their match would not have this issue, but I have yet to find anyone I trust. Or I have yet to trust myself. Couldn't say which, but it's hard to meet people when you work from home and can't get out much. Point being that you probably miss having SOME one that you can talk to or be with. It really would not have to be your x, but that is still your go to in your mind. Being sad when you feel alone is normal.
Is your question more do people ever stop thinking about their x? It depends on the person and situation. Or are you wondering how long before you stop missing your x? Or are you wondering if the empty space your x left can be filled in should you meet someone else at some time?
For myself. 9 years out, 95% of my time XH has no free rent space in my head anymore. It was 2 years to get to tolerable, and probably another year to get to I'm good without him. The time when they are doing that push me, pull you garbage doesn't have any healing in it, you have to wait to be done with what was, because that part of your life is past. Acceptance of what is was key for me.
I do have two kids, so there is a small amount of time I am required to acknowledge his existence, but mostly he is just an annoyance. I don't happen to have anyone, but that is my choice. I do have friends, work, adventures and hobbies which take up a lot of my time. And when I feel lonely or sad, I either listen to sad music and let the feelings wash through, or go find something I like to do and do it.
Don't be afraid of being/feeling alone. Let it be a transitory thing. That way should the right person come along, you will know you are not just looking for something to fill the empty space. JMO, as always.
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As for MLCers, sometimes I wonder how they can continue to live their lives as if nothing happened. I know it doesn't make any difference to my circumstances but sometimes I wish to know if he is truly happy with the decisions he made in his life.
I meant to touch on this last night. This is just my experience, but in my loneliest moments, I no longer think of my ex. It used to be that I would think about him and wonder these kind of questions when I was very lonely or struggling. It was attaching our circumstances together, like how can he be happy when I am struggling so much? I realized that that was my way of keeping us attached. As if his happiness/my struggle were opposite ends of the same thread. But as time has gone on and I have done so much healing work and also my own journey into nonattachment and other things, it occurred to me he has no power over my feelings. I used him as almost an object to focus on when my nervous system was keyed up. It gave me a false sense of control, an outlet for my anger, an object to focus my sadness on, a way to avoid going deeper and really touching the root of the pain and healing it.
My ex did a lot of deeply damaging things to me, emotionally, physically and circumstantially. But there are Many many days now where I don’t even think of him once, even when I am actually dealing with things that are a consequence of his actions. He’s no longer on the other end of the thread. When I do have those moments where I want to direct my anger or my loneliness or my utter despair at the struggle of life at him, I stop and ask myself what the deeper issue is. Because it’s always deeper than him. And if in that moment I am not feeling strong enough to go deeper, I’ll distract myself with something else for a while until I’m ready. But I at least allow myself the recognition that he is just the emotional stand in and I shouldn’t give him more power than that.
I recently posted an article on the links thread with the idea that emotions cause us to think in ways that will deepen them. I think that applies to so many places in life, will we focus on the thing that will make us continue to feel what we’re feeling. When I’m feeling like I don’t matter, I notice that I tend to focus on even the tiniest things that might suggest that I don’t matter. Loneliness sucks, and when we’re feeling lonely, thinking about an ex and how they’re no longer there just deepens the feeling of loneliness. Same thing with anger, when we’re feeling angry and we think about all the terrible things our ex did to us, it strengthens the anger. Just like with everything in life, we have to be intentional and make a conscious effort to redirect ourselves.
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DF fwiw I had similar feelings and on rare occasions I can still feel that way and I am 7+ years out. It does vary with people but I believe it is absolutely normal to have these "moments." We who actually were emotionally present and had formed a bond with our spouses can't just simply "turn the ship around" as the metaphor goes. It takes time. But I will say where I am today and for the past few years my W just doesn't carry that kind of heavy weight and I no longer feel sad and alone as I used to in the first few years.
This sounds like what my coworker told who was also a divorced. She told me it took her 7 years from the time of divorce till she could say she was totally healed and had no more anger, sadness or any negative feelings towards her ex (who also cheated on her).
As for the MLCer my W can have moments where she looks like her old self, even happy. But I have semi regular contact with her, and we talk regularly and she is still stressed, unhappy and searching. I don't believe that their pain and damage just simply can go away.
Somehow it's good to have someone LBS like you who still have contact with their MLCer spouses to have a window of how the MLC spouses are doing years after BD. I don't know how to describe it but maybe somehow it gives me a validation that after all it's not greener on the other side. But I still hope one day, I will get to a point where I could say it doesn't matter to me how the MLCer is doing in life. Only then I could stay I have totally moved on I guess.
I realized that the only times I ever felt safe, I made myself feel that way, it was not from an external source, and a lot of my life was not safe, and that’s why feeling safe with another person is harder for me. I am willing to be extremely open but I need someone who is willing to let me sometimes (not always but especially for big moments) fumble through a lot of tangled confusion to get to the core of what I’m feeling.
I did feel safe with my x. At the time I knew that he would always take my side and protect me. However, the womanizing part I have always doubted me as he already sort of cheated on me at the beginning of our marriage. From the time I discovered the fakebook flirts with his former gf who also was the first run to for him after BD or even before BD, that trust was never 100% anymore. But still he gave me comfort during the marriage and that's why I struggle with being alone because I never had that kind of person within my own family. I was never afraid to talk to him about anything because I know he wouldn't judge me or disregard my feelings.
What changed for me is that I know that bad things do happen and could still happen but that doesn’t change the fact that I can be happy and I can be valued and if anything bad happens after that, it doesn’t negate my value or take away the happy moments that came before. It’s just that life unfolds and different things happen and whatever happens doesn’t wipe out what happened before. So if I have an experience and I’m happy in the moment, then whatever I was happy about has happened and nothing can take it away. I got to experience it. I will grieve its loss if it ends but I still had it and was happy during it. No matter what happens next, I had that happiness. So I really hope that I get to experience that. And I try (not always successfully) to avoid lamenting that I haven’t ever gotten to experience it.
I think it takes a lot of effort and working on ourselves to be able to do this. Changing your mindset, changing your thoughts, that's hard work. I will try to keep this in mind NAS. It does make sense, bad things always happen whether you've been happy or not. Maybe I was just focused so much on the bad things that happened to my life and forgot to look at the good things that came with it. I tend to do this when I feel lonely and down and defeated. And it feels like a domino effect and it's so hard to get out of it at least on the same day.
Somehow I didn't realize that we are on such a similar timeline; I think I'm just a few months ahead of you. I still have moments like that and had one today, in fact. I don't even know why today's happened. It's usually when I go on a trip to somewhere new or experience something new, because XW and I liked to explore. Although that's also true of the last serious girlfriend I had before I met XW, so I don't know why I don't think about the girlfriend as much as XW. I guess because gf and I had key differences that made marriage a no-go, and XW was finally someone I could see being with permanently. I do have friends I hang out with from time to time, but it's just not that same connection.
I have this trigger as well JB. Whenever I go to places whether it's a new place or a place I've been before with my x, I always feel sad and I always long for his presence because we both enjoyed travelling and even though most of the times it was exhausting but I still enjoyed those adventures with him. Not that I don't enjoy travelling with any other person or just even by myself but it's just different, if you know what I mean.
Reinventing, two years since final separation and I still cry but rarely when I am triggered. It still affects me a lot. Sometimes I don't know why I'm crying. I just feel empty at times or I just need that shoulder to lay my head on, that comfort, or those listening ears.
When someone was the person you normally went to, talked to, sought solace from and they aren't there anymore, it's sad. Sometimes there is no one else you can talk about some specific thing with. It leaves me feeling very empty and alone. I suppose a person who has found someone else that is their match would not have this issue, but I have yet to find anyone I trust. Or I have yet to trust myself. Couldn't say which, but it's hard to meet people when you work from home and can't get out much. Point being that you probably miss having SOME one that you can talk to or be with. It really would not have to be your x, but that is still your go to in your mind. Being sad when you feel alone is normal.
This is exactly how I feel when I have those moments. I miss having someone I can talk to and just be honest with without being judged or criticised. My ex was like that. I could tell him everything, my problems, my fears and he would assure me he whatever happens he would always be there for me (in hindsight, how ironic). But I guess I remember that feeling when he was always there for me before BD of course. I grieve for that person. I grieve that company. Grieving is indeed complex.
I could text my x now and tell him I need him. And I believe almost 100% that he would come straight away. But I need to protect myself, I know it wouldn't do me good either. So I feel like he's so near yet so far. I know he's still in that replay stage even though I barely have contact with him. I've learned so much from this experience, and I have become a more independent person but I wished all these things never happened. I wish I didn't lose him to MLC or whatever it was that took him away from me.
Is your question more do people ever stop thinking about their x? It depends on the person and situation. Or are you wondering how long before you stop missing your x? Or are you wondering if the empty space your x left can be filled in should you meet someone else at some time?
I guess my question is if you ever get to a point where what happened doesn't hurt you anymore. But like what everyone said here, it is very individual. I just would like to be in a place where thoughts about my ex don't affect me anymore. Like it would just come but it would not trigger so much emotion anymore. If you know what I mean.
What I realized thought after all these years since BD is that whatever my x did to me, I could not unlove him. How crazy is that. I tried to unlove him, hate him but the hatred is diminishing. However, that love is still there. Now, I only remember the good things we had. I have to work hard to remember the bad things. It's so weird to be in this place.
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I meant to touch on this last night. This is just my experience, but in my loneliest moments, I no longer think of my ex. It used to be that I would think about him and wonder these kind of questions when I was very lonely or struggling. It was attaching our circumstances together, like how can he be happy when I am struggling so much? I realized that that was my way of keeping us attached. As if his happiness/my struggle were opposite ends of the same thread. But as time has gone on and I have done so much healing work and also my own journey into nonattachment and other things, it occurred to me he has no power over my feelings. I used him as almost an object to focus on when my nervous system was keyed up. It gave me a false sense of control, an outlet for my anger, an object to focus my sadness on, a way to avoid going deeper and really touching the root of the pain and healing it.
I am amazed about the work you've done for yourself NAS. This makes sense to me. I do try though to figure out where the sadness comes from and what do I really need. Is it really my ex? What triggers it? What has been triggered. And I know that everytime I feel like this, this is my 8 or 9 year old me when my mother left us. I felt abandone by the person I thought was my safety net. It's exactly the same panic attack I had when I was BDed by my xh. I tried to tell myself the other day like talking to my child self that I am in a safe place now, something that I learned from my therapy. It's so hard though to convince yourself. Like you said this is hard work, digging more deeply.
I recently posted an article on the links thread with the idea that emotions cause us to think in ways that will deepen them. I think that applies to so many places in life, will we focus on the thing that will make us continue to feel what we’re feeling. When I’m feeling like I don’t matter, I notice that I tend to focus on even the tiniest things that might suggest that I don’t matter. Loneliness sucks, and when we’re feeling lonely, thinking about an ex and how they’re no longer there just deepens the feeling of loneliness. Same thing with anger, when we’re feeling angry and we think about all the terrible things our ex did to us, it strengthens the anger. Just like with everything in life, we have to be intentional and make a conscious effort to redirect ourselves.
This is so true. I do tend to focus on things that didn't work everytime I feel sad and lonely. Even though there are also good things that are happening in my life at the moment. When I feel sad and lonely then all I could think of is just the bad things that happened to me. It's so hard to get out of it once I'm in that cycle. I would usually stay in bed the whole day and just do nothing but wallow in those sad thoughts. Perhaps this is a good reminder for me to recognize these feelings before being swallowed into it.
Thank you all for sharing your journey. I needed this to remind myself that i am not alone in this.
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It's so hard to get out of it once I'm in that cycle. I would usually stay in bed the whole day and just do nothing but wallow in those sad thoughts. Perhaps this is a good reminder for me to recognize these feelings before being swallowed into it.
You're absolutely right, recognizing them is key. I often talk about how we can control a lot of things we think we have no control over, but Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANTs) are actually a kind of spontaneous thought that stems from core beliefs formed usually in very early childhood, and they do pop up - well, automatically - in response to triggers. The actual definition of them is "thoughts that are instantaneous, habitual, and nonconscious.” So it could be really easy to just believe they are 100% true and let them run the show. The first step is recognizing and acknowledging them instead of just accepting them as fact. "I'm unlovable," "I don't matter," "I don't have any value as a person" - these were unalterable truths for most of my life. It's not that I couldn't control them, it's just that I didn't recognize them so I couldn't challenge them.
Sometimes they run very, very deep, and, in my experience, often have truckloads of corroborating experiences to "back them up" and that can make them VERY hard to challenge. But that's part of the hard work of healing, right, not backing down from the challenge. I've found in healing I'm much more of an emotional risk taker than I thought myself to be - I don't run from these challenges, and I'm open to the possibility of being hurt if it means I also get to experience authentic, honest, real connections. I came across a really basic image on this ANTs topic that I think you would resonate with. I want to post on the links thread, but I need someone to help me post images.
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Time for Update I guess.
Recently, I've been on a holiday in France. I decided to travel by car since I wanted to take my dog with me. At first I thought if just going there alone and then last minute I decided to take a friend with me which was not a good decision. To cut the long story short, I was so stressed with this friend that on the third day of my holiday, I was so distracted by her not being careful with food in the car that I forgot to close the trunk of my car as it was an automatic one. When I drove it hit the ceiling of the garage and the whole glass broke into pieces. I was in tears as I just bought this car ( althought it was used already) but still it looks brand new. I was so worried as I still had to travel back home and it was quite far. I was on an island. In my panic the first person that came to my mind was my xh. So I decided to call him and he answered the phone. He knows that if I call him then it must be something bad. Despite us being D whenever I have a problem like that and I ask my xh he is still willing to help me. He called the insurance and arranged for the road assistance. He was able to calm me down as I still had to drive back to our hotel for 3 hours in the dark with the back of the car fully exposed to wind and rain. I am very thankful that my ex arranged for everything especially the roadside assisstance as it was all in French and sometimes they can be very unfriendly. I can speak the language quite well but it my situation I was just so exhausted. It was a big help for me coming from my ex. Somehow I could feel that my xh was still there but also at the same time it's a different person.
As for him, he told me he's having a hip replacement due to problems with his hipbone from doing too much sport. Because he always helped me in times of trouble, I offered him some help like taking him to the hospital or bringing him back home from the hospital. My x told me he doesn't need help and he's able to manage it alone. He even told me that he didn't want his family to come visit him at the hospital. He said he prefers to suffer alone and doesn't want to bother other people. He thanked me though for offering him help. I don't know why he would refuse help not even from his own family. I just don't get it. Or maybe he has a new gf that would take care of him and just doesn't want his family to know about it. I think the sporty gf is now out of the picture. But I don't really know and I'd rather not know. So despite this whole hip problem thing, he seemed to be still determined to continue doing this triathlon which is very detrimental to his health. But it's his life and I'm not part of that life anymore so I have no say. I just don't get it why people would continue to do the things they know would destroy their body.
Back to me, I was very relieved I was able to drive back home last night with the temporary plastic cover of the trunk of my car. What annoys me now is just the additional cost. If I had travel alone as what my sister advised me, none of these things would have happened. My whole vacation was just very stressful because of this friend of mine. I guess it's a lesson learned.
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I'm sorry about your car. I know I also get out of sync when I'm stressed, so forget things.
As to your ex there are a lot of possibilities. Maybe he not actually having a replacement, but is just thinking he will need one because he has hip pain. Maybe he's afraid of looking weak. Maybe he's trying to look tough. Maybe, maybe, maybe. You can't know and you are not likely to get a truthful answer. You are correct it's his life and you aren't really involved in it anymore so good for you and there you are.
I hope it doesn't cost too much to get the window repaired.
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Thank you offroad for your response. My car is covered by the insurance but I still have to pay 1000 ChF. Something That would still hurt me financially.
As for my xh he already told me months ago that he might have a hip replacement but he wanted to do alternative treatment to avoid it. The problem I guess he cannot run anymore. He wanted to be always active so the hip problem needs fixing. I don’t think he realized that he is getting older and his body cannot take such extreme stress from all these sports he’s been doing. I didn’t tell him that because I know he wouldn’t listen. He’s just the kind of person who always has to exaggerate everything. There’s never a middle ground. I remember when he taught me how to ski, the moment I started enjoying the easy slopes he brought me to the difficult ones which of course frustrated me because I would get stuck in the middle of the slope out of fear or fall on my face. This is just his personality and of course MLC reinforced it. I just hope he has a successful surgery.
It must be lonely to be alone. He doesn’t want his family to support him. I guess he doesn’t want to be pitied but at the same time he wants people to care for him otherwise he would not have told me about it.
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My XH would tell me things also for I am sure the pity factor or at least to try and make it seem like things were not all great. He also does not share anything personal with his family. He has become very secretive of his entire life. I dont think they know fully where they are or where they are going and so they just dont want to have to give any answers. Another avoidant issue that many have. I dont know much anymore as I have been no contact for over a year on anything personal and complete NC for 8 months. It’s nice he helps you. Im sure it relieves some guilt and I bet he also thinks he has no right to ask you for anything in return.
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Madluv, yeah it’s nice he still helps me in such situations. And I really appreciate it. What I noticed about my xh he mentioned a number of times that he prefers to suffer secretly. He said this again today, after the surgery when I texted him. His surgery was supposed to be tomorrow but they decided to do it today. I know my x likes to exaggerate everything for some reason. Could be to get sympathy or could be to spice up the story. He told me today that he lost more blood than what was initially discussed. And he said he fainted thrice while even lying down. I then checked how much blood one usually loses during surgery. What he lost is within the normal range. I read that apparently women who undergo cesarian even lose 1 liter of blood. Then I told this to him and he said well I’m not as tough as women. So I told him he’ll be ok. He told me he’s making a big scene when he fainted. Well apparently his blood pressure is so low because of the morphine they gave him that’s why he fainted. And now they can’t give him more of morphine because of that so he has pain. Now I am not sure if it’s very painful or he’s again just exaggerating it. I know he has very low pain tolerance. But anyway, I find it bizarre that he kept telling me he prefers to suffer in secret and yet tells me what he’s been going through. So it’s not a secret anymore lol.
While exchanging texts with my xh today, that old h that I knew of somehow was still there. The way he talked and cracked jokes. I haven’t seen my x for almost 2 years now so I don’t know how he is like now. This November it will be 2 years since our D. And honestly, sometimes I feel like I wish I hadn’t contacted him when the accident happened or I wish I just cut him totally out of my life. Part of me wants not to have anything to do with him anymore but when I am in trouble I know he’s the only one I can trust who could help me. Sometimes I wished I never met my xh at all. I wished I just took the job in the US and my life would have been different.
But I am in this situation now I cannot change what happened so I just try to continue moving on even though sometimes it is very tough to be alone. I envy those who have loving husbands especially those I saw during my holiday.
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Another possibility (regarding his BP) is that it is low due to the extreme sports. I ride my bike 18 km per day to work and back, do Aerobics usually twice a week, go to the gym for strength training weekly with my son (riding my bike 10 km each way to get there and back home) and whack a small ball around a squash court with my daughter once a week (can't really call it playing squash because we don't play by ANY of the correct rules - we just whack the ball around). I had my bi-annual check-up 2 weeks ago and (background - I am 61, 188cm tall and weigh 85-86 kgs) my doctor looked at me and said, "Well, THAT is a little low but it's because you are obviously active" (my Blood Pressure was 90/55 at rest with a resting pulse of 50) and told me that, as long as I wasn't falling over when I stood up, she wasn't concerned..... and was in fact a bit jealous of my blood values and BP "at my age" (Gee, THANKS Doc! Why don't you twist the knife a bit while you have it stuck in there.... ;D)
But it is about as useful to speculate about your xH and "why" as it is to try to taste green with your elbow so .....
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You are right UM, my xh always had low BP because he is very sporty. That’s what I told him too and with the morphine they have him, it got even lower that’s why he fainted. You seem to be very active yourself. I think sport is good for as long as you do it in moderation. I like doing winter Sport myself. Once in a while I go swimming which really does me good esp my back.
Journaling:
As for my xh, he apparently ended up going to his parents after he was discharged from the hospital. He thought he would go home and just be back to normal. But he told ne he was in so much pain and can barely walk for more than a couple of minutes. He couldn’t even put on his socks. So I said well you overestimated yourself when you told ne u didn’t need any help from anybody and you will manage it by yourself. He said no I didn’t overestimated myself because I realized it right away on the day I was discharged from the hospital. Still too proud to accept he was wrong. Well, somehow I‘m happy I don’t have to deal with these things anymore. He is his parents‘ problem now. They are not very young anymore. The dad will be 90 next year and the mom is also in her 80s. That’s not easy for them either but the bad side of me is telling myself they deserve to suffer with their son after what they did to me. LOL
That’s for now. i wish everyone a great weekend!
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I thought it might be a good idea to write some updates here. Most of the time, I am just reading the posts here.
So it will be 5 years since BD this May and 2 years since D was finalize. Time indeed flies. I didn't even notice it anymore not even anniversaries as I've been busy moving on with my life. Looking back, I cannot imagine that life would get better after BD, that finally I stopped crying. When you are in the thick of it, it is so hard to imagine that the pain would go away. It does get lesser and lesser and up to this point I don't feel it anymore although, there were times I miss having my xh in my life but these moments were just passing. I guess I won't be able to truly forget my xh, who knows. My work and my dog have kept my life occupied. I've learned to love going on hikes with her. My mom and my sister and her family came over here to celebrate Christmas together. It was wonderful. We were finally complete at Christmas and New Year's after so many years. We finally have a new family picture. I missed my xh though. I guess I will always miss his company.
As for my MLCer, we remained in contact once in a while and sometimes we joke. I haven't seen him though in more than two years since that terrible day in court during our divorce hearing. Im writing an update today because the only thing that's connecting me to my xh at the moment is the alimony he's paying me which will end soon. Today I noticed I had suddenly a noticeable increase in my bank account. When I checked it, I realized it was my x. So basically he paid off the remaning amount of alimony he has to pay. After this, I feel like this is it, we will be totally disconnected which I think is maybe good for me. It's a chance for me to stand on my own without his support anymore. 5 years ago I was so scared I wouldn't be able to support myself. But now that I have lived for 4 years by myself, I realized there is nothing to be scared anymore. What happened made me realize that I can survive and even thrive by myself. This experience was truly an eye opener for me that I can rely on myself. I am just happy where I am now. I've made friends at work and outside work. I found new hobbies and I learned to trust myself in making decisions. I learned to travel by myself. So many positive things came into my life after those painful years I had to go through. For those who are still in the thick of this whole MLC thing, there is life on the other side. It might not be what we wanted initially, but it's really something you will be proud of.
On another note, my x apparently had no more contact with the people he used to have a good relationship with. I don't know if this is an MLC thing but it still surprises me that he is really a walking example of a typical MLCer. Recently, he told me that a co worker of his who was known to be a really hard working good guy. Overly hard working in fact, as he spent most of his life working and even at home with his family he was still working and entertaining business calls. So apparently, my x told me recently he got divorced. His wife, I guess also in her late 40s or maybe early 50s (night quite sure), wanted the divorce. She hired a lawyer for her and mader her h pay for her lawyer. The guy was so nice that he agreed to pay but didn't get a lawyer for himself. They didn't go to court and they just settled the divorce with her lawyer and himself. The wife demanded him to pay her half of his salary, until his retirement and she claimed not being capable of working because she's not mentally able. They have a son who is 11 or 12 years old, and she decided to leave the child with her husband as she is not interested anymore in taking care of him. So she went on travels abroad like in the Maldives and Dubai to do some yoga and went on a shopping spree of more than 20k dollars all charged to the husband's credit card. I'm not sure though if the shopping spree happened after the divorce or before. But anyway, the co worker of my ex paid the whole amount. He said, he's life is done and he just wanted to make sure the son will have a good life and then he can die. It's a really sad story as I know this guy is so nice. The only problem with him is he couldn't say no. So the ex wife abused it. Now he has to work full time and take care of their son, while the ex wife is living her best life. I do wonder if the wife is going through some crisis. She never worked and the husband provided her everything. I told my ex good people like his colleague will have a good karma while his ex wife will be run over by the bad karma bus sooner or later. 🤣 He never reacted.
He told me he doesn't want to worry about life anymore and he just wants to enjoy his life. My ex never asked me how I am everytime we had contact. I always asked him though. I guess he is still in MLC world. I'm glad I'm out of that chaotic world.
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Glad to hear you are doing well, you sound good, DF.
I wonder too if you might find life smoother if there is no reason for ongoing contact, just as you say.
Time is a funny old thing, isn’t it? I watched a BBC programme yesterday talking about the 5th anniversary of the pandemic. Didn’t realise that this was also pretty much your BD date - what an extraordinary act to BD a spouse at the beginning of a pandemic. A time when most other people were doing everything they could to protect and cherish their friends and families and neighbours from this awful scary life-threatening thing. How hard it must have been for every LBS here dealing with MLC or BD at the same time as a pandemic that turned life upside down too.
What struck me watching the documentary as it talked to people who had lost loved ones is that they are still grieving, living but changed by their loss. And how reasonable that seemed to me that they should feel how they do. But quite a few said that they feel the wider world is impatient with their reaction to loss and seems to want to just act as if Covid never happened…but to them, sometimes, it felt like yesterday, so it was easier to talk to other people who had lost people too. Bc they get it. I guess this forum is a version of that kind of place too, a place that understands we can survive a kind of hell and move forward from it, but also be changed profoundly by it years later.
Hug from here xxx
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Thank you Treasur, you're one of the people that helped me through it. It was indeed right before the pandemic when my H BDed me. I remember very well how hard it was to be alone during the lockdown here. It was a scary time, but luckily the government allowed us to do outdoor activity for as long as we were alone or together with the people in the same household. In my case, I was of course alone. I think I was deep in my depression back then. After all I have been through, I think I am in a good place now. I'm not the same person anymore. I've tried dating but I guess it was not the right time or maybe I am just scared to be in a relationship again. That kind of pain was just brutal. I would not want anybody in my family or my circle of friends to experience it. Even until now, I cannot fathom how a person could hurt their spouses like that. I still can't wrap my head around it.
I think the MLC grief is harder than losing a loved one from death because you know they are still there and yet they're not there. And that for me was hard to accept. I remember when I spoke to my therapist, I told her I considered my xh dead so my brain could catch up that he was gone. But it was hard to convince myself that. With the help of the people here who never got tired of reminding us that it would all get better with time, I slowly moved forward in my own pace. I have changed and I'm not the same person anymore. I've finally stopped blaming myself or comparing myself to the OWs which was the worst thing to do. I guess I would never trust someone like that again.
The only thing I wish now is that I will finally reach that stage of indifference towards him. That I won't be affected anymore not even a bit. Funny today, my ex replied to my question after 4 days. He was injured again in the knee from doing all these exercises with his physio therapist probably in preparation for another triathlon. And I told him, it seemed like injuries are chasing him. He answered and said, no athlete doesn't have any injury and he said every injury is a setback is a set up for him to come back stronger and that he always made it and came out of everything stronger. To which I replied or it could be a reminder to slow down. He then said, he is very grateful with the goals he achieved and he learned to be resilient mentally blah blah blah. So normally in the past, I would continue to prove him otherwise but this time I just said, you do what you do best. I learned how to back up big time not just with my exh but with everyone. I just let them. And it's a huge relief.
From what I gather through the message exchange with my ex, he seemed to have found his happiness and the recognition he's always wanted trying to prove he was good at something. The triathlon gave him the recognition he's always chasing. Whether he is still in his crisis or towards the end, I do not regret that I asked him to move out from my apartment. I could not imagine how damaged I would be today had I kept trying to hold him back. Some people in our lives do not finish the journey with us. They were never meant to walk with us till the end, they were meant to walk halfway. I look at it this way now. My xh purpose in my life had come to an end.