Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: toomanytearss on November 22, 2023, 10:54:55 AM
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https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11417.msg800061#msg800061
My last thread. Wow that took a long long time to get through. LOL. How things change. I remember the early days when a new thread might last me a week or month. Something like that.
Anyway, it's hard to believe ten years is coming up in February. A whole decade. So many changes and ups and downs.
It's kind of strange the way I look at my life these days. You know back in the day when I'd think about my past it was usually mostly my life with the x. He was always the star of the show. Sometimes I'd think back to my childhood, but it was rare. These days when I go down memory lane it's pretty darn short. It pretty much starts at the time that I started putting myself together. Kind of like that is when my life really started. Of course, I still go down memory lane about my kids here and there, but those memories are now very narrowed down. They are usually a specific moment in time and include my child only or me and my child. Kind of like the x never existed in my life. He's certainly not the star of my memories anymore.
I think a lot about if I wish this had never happened. My answer is not what it was many years ago. I'm glad that it happened. The only regret is that it didn't happen earlier. But that is because my marriage, after looking at it in a clearer way, was not good. I was not married to a loving, kind, emotionally mature person. And I was a highly reactive person. Anyway, it just didn't make for a good marriage and neither of us was smart enough emotionally to know to get some help. I am in no way saying what he did was right. It was not right. But it is what a emotionally immature person with an inferiority complex would do.
I am in no way saying that I didn't love him and want the marriage to work. But it didn't work, and couldn't work with the material that the marriage had to work with.
From all this I have learned and grown. I've had some rough times, and some times I was almost too scared to move. Some very sad times and times of such utter loneliness. I think it was the first time in my life that I had "FEELINGS" that I was not being told by a significant other or a parent how I should feel and what I should do.
This mlc, they say, is a depression, a coming to the surface of wounds and a decision of sorts for the mlc'r when his crisis is over. Hmmmm, I get that I guess. Not really. I'll never truly understand mlc.
But I do know this. I don't know how much the x learned from his crisis. But I can tell you I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself, overcame a lot of fears, learned about people, learned to trust myself, learned to face the worst parts of myself as well.
I wish I had been able to start my adult life with the knowledge and understanding I have now. But would it have changed anything in the end? Who knows?
But time does help you heal if you choose to let it and participate.
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Toomanytears, thank you for continuing to update is with your life now. Everything you said about memories is what I am experiencing right now. I still talk a lot about memories that include my ex. He is still mostly the star of the show. But that deep pain I felt before during BD and after isn’t the same anymore. It does get lesser and lesser. I hope one day, I can say those words you said regarding your mind set and your thoughts now. It sounds like you are totally healed now. I have noticed I feel more and more confident now. Unlike before I was very dependent on my ex. I really believe my ex personality was already like that when it comes to cheating and MLC probably reinforced it. Who knows. Please continue to update us.
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Thanks for what you wrote at the end of your last thread and the beginning of this one. Great reads.
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But I do know this. I don't know how much the x learned from his crisis. But I can tell you I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself, overcame a lot of fears, learned about people, learned to trust myself, learned to face the worst parts of myself as well.
I wish I had been able to start my adult life with the knowledge and understanding I have now. But would it have changed anything in the end? Who knows?
But time does help you heal if you choose to let it and participate.
I’m so glad you (and other veteran LBS) continue to post here TMT. I love your thoughts above. Especially the bolded part.
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Attaching TMT....
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Well it seems like this Christmas season is going to be quite busy. So far this month has been very nice. Except for the fact I took a bad fall and ripped my knee open and I have to go for an X-ray because I might have a fracture as well. So riding season is sort of out for me. Except I did ride today for just a bit. Lol. Shouldn’t have. I’m in some pain right now from it. And my ankle is as big as an elephants leg. But I couldn’t resist. My trainers horse was right there all saddled and ready to go. Lol. He’s a great horse and fun to ride. Lol. I’m paying for that decision now.
Things here other than that have been pretty nice. The x took all of December off. He wanted to be with family for the holidays. It’s usually very stressful when he is around. Especially the holidays.
But he has been quite non stressy so far. He came over and hung all my Christmas decor outside and youngest d helped him. I was at work and I couldn’t do it this year because of my leg.
He has decided he wants to learn to ride and has been taking lessons 3 times a week while he’s here and apparently he is loving it. He asked me to watch his lesson today so I went. He’s doing well. He said he sleeps so well after his lesson day. He has completely cleaned his house and decorated for the holiday. He usually just sits in his house and watches tv. He is taking lessons with my trainers. They have welcomed him and have invited him to go with us to our Christmas barn dinner.
He came over on Sunday to spend some time with youngest d and me. She wanted to play cards. He picked up all the ingredients for a charcuterie board and he and youngest d set it all up together. We played cards and ate and talked. It was a nice night.
Our oldest daughter had a family dinner last week and we all went and everyone had fun. He was nice and laughing and eating and being a normal human being.
Youngest d is having her birthday celebration next week and chose to do that with me and included her dad. Her choice. She asked him.
They have also planned a birthday lunch just her and him and then they are doing some cooking together for the Christmas dinner. All the family is coming to my house. So they are going to go over the stuff they want to cook and then picking up all their groceries for that. He asked her to lunch and she accepted.
I am very happy for her that they are finding their way. He is learning to just be her friend. Not to push. So she’s letting him in a bit. I’m hoping very much that he continues to help his relationship with her grow. They were never close and when all this happened she felt like he threw her away. Like she didn’t matter. No child should go through that.
I didn’t make a big deal of it. I just said oh that sounds like a nice day. She just smiled.
It really makes me happy to see the kids being able to work through all this with their dad. And that he’s finally understanding and making the effort. He’s going to our sons house tomorrow to help him with some home improvements. Our son bribed him with cheesecake. Lol!!
The x and I had a talk about where we are as well. As I told him we are both on the downhill slope now. It’s not fair for either of us to be in this weird holding pattern. We either need to put in the work to move forward or let go and find our happiness elsewhere. He agreed. And we agreed that if we decide to move forward separately that we will continue to be friends and be good to each other and be there for each other. We have a lot of years together kids together and we’ve suffered a lot of devastation. Neither of us wants to go through that devastation again.
So we have set aside a day to sit and talk through some things and try to figure out what path we each want to take.
Either way we will be fine I think. As long as we all continue to have care for each other the family will be ok either way and so will x and I.
The only down side of things right now is my brother. He won’t be coming and I’m actually relieved. He and his girlfriend who he’s been with 10 years are parting ways. He was cheating on her. With 3 other women. She is devastated. I am so pissed off at him. She is such a kind person. For him to do that is messed up. Wasting 10 years of her life.
He’s been doing this for the last 6 years. She found the evidence on his phone. I told her to check his phone. She was feeling like something was going on. She found everything. I wish in some ways I hadn’t encouraged her to do that. The crap he said about her to his side pieces was horrible. She’ll carry that in her mind for a long time. But I wasn’t sure that’s what was going on but if it was I didn’t want her to stay and keep putting up with his stupid crap he was doing to her.
I wouldn’t even be able to look at him if he came here. He’s done this before. It’s how his marriage ended. And one of the side pieces is the same scum bag that he cheated with when married to my sil. He’s learned nothing. And he saw what he put my sil through and what I went through.
So I’m glad he’s not coming or we’d be like when we were kids during it out in the yard. Grrrrr…..
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Hey TMT. That is wonderful that x is stepping up and doing the work with the kids. So happy for them and you, long may it continue. Also happy to hear that you're making a move to either move forward, or potentially move apart, with purpose. Very mature of him. Very not-mature of your brother though. His poor GF. We all know what it's like to be bombed like that, especially at the start. Just heartbreaking. Re your knee... no more riding missy until you've had some tests!
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TMT, yes, it is hard enough to find out about OW(s), without hearing/reading the garbage thoughts they conjure up about the LBS to justify what they are doing. I think that part elicits the most umbrage from me now because of the time it takes to process that garbage, throw it away where it belongs, and heal.
Even so, it is better to know and have to face that pain, than the insidious undercutting and gaslighting they do when we don't know what is going on.
I always say that seeing him with OW just 10 weeks after BD was one of the best and worst days of my life. At least I could live in reality, even though the pain was indescribable.
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The x and I had a talk about where we are as well. As I told him we are both on the downhill slope now. It’s not fair for either of us to be in this weird holding pattern. We either need to put in the work to move forward or let go and find our happiness elsewhere. He agreed. And we agreed that if we decide to move forward separately that we will continue to be friends and be good to each other and be there for each other. We have a lot of years together kids together and we’ve suffered a lot of devastation. Neither of us wants to go through that devastation again.
This - this is excellent news TMT and about time too!
To be able to say that you'll be ok with or without the MLCer in your life is a huge step forward. Because the dependency on them to be part of your life has gone, because the knowledge that your happiness is not in some person but in the good and positive aspects of your own life and choices has arrived.
I once said to H way back in the early days after BD (when he mentioned that he didn't even like OW and couldn't understand what he was doing but that it felt right... ) that I actually didn't care what happened to us but I did care what happened to the children and that if nothing else we would work this out and be good parents regardless.
I also love love love the way your D is handling this - such maturity in one so young and excellent emotional stability from her too. Sometimes when we watch our children handle this we learn so many lessons from them. "Out of the mouth of Babes"
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I once said to H way back in the early days after BD (when he mentioned that he didn't even like OW and couldn't understand what he was doing but that it felt right... ) that I actually didn't care what happened to us but I did care what happened to the children and that if nothing else we would work this out and be good parents regardless.
Oh wow, my stbx said a bit the same a few months after BD. He said to his friend that he wasn’t very much in love anymore with the OW but he thought the relationship meant something bc he still wanted to see her…. I think that was limerence. Unfortunately the affair is still going on after three years.
Edited to fix quote - UM
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Akkie,
My W said similar to me, OM probably won’t last (no $h!te Sherlock). But he can be a fun new friend for our kids! Yeah right, so if he’s not going be hanging around then why even introduce him?
Suffice to say he was gone within a fortnight of that statement and his “integration” into our family.
MLC logic eh?
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Unfortunately the affair is still going on after three years.
If it's any reassurance Akkie - My H's affair lasted 3.5 yrs and then fizzled out gradually.
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The new year is here. I started it with a messed up leg and a pretty heavy case of the flu. UGH!!! I'm still not recovered. I'm still very weak and spent all of the holidays in bed sick. I did get xmas eve with some of the family before I got sick - or should I say before I knew I was sick. My son didn't make it for the holiday because my little grandson was sick, so I dropped his gifts and dinner to him and his wife at their house.
My brother did not come for the holiday. That was good because I was sick anyway and I'm not happy with him.
I was super proud of his now x girlfriend and how she handled everything. Girl took her power back! She waited until her repairs on her home were finished, just played along knowing everything she knows, and when her house was finished she waited for my brother to leave for the morning and packed her stuff and left. She is staying out of town and when she got to her destination she texted him to never contact her again.
Can you believe he was shocked? LOL He didn't even know she had moved out. He called me all upset and not understanding. I just said well that's what you wanted right? He refused to admit to his affairs. I let him know that I know, not how, but that I know and even threw out a name of one of his side pieces. His response was it's not what I think it is. My response was oh yes it is. And to please not lie to himself.
He, of course, is trying to twist it all around. I'm just not playing into his narrative. I'm not being mean to him, but I'm not listening to his bs or feeling one bit sorry for him. And his x has not responded to anything from him. She's a rock. She's so hurt but I'll tell you she is standing strong. I'm so sorry she is going through this pain. She is such a good person. No matter what she will always be a part of my family.
My brother is all over the place. Started out boo hooing about how he made a horrible mistake. Which transformed into excuses of they were having problems, but he doesn't want to say anything bad about her, to saying bad things about her, to accusing her of being crazy - and on and on and back and forth. From being a victim himself, to her plotting against him to how stupid he is. LOL The only thing I continue to agree with him on is that he's stupid. LOL
It's really not funny. It's a horrible situation for her, his x.
But here's some input from the mlc xh -
I know you are upset with your brother, but I hope you will keep the lines of communication open with him. What he has done is very bad, but he needs someone he can trust to talk to. He's as messed up as me.
Really? I'm certainly not tossing him to the curb, but I'm not going to play into and listen to his bs excuses for his bad choices and bad behavior. I guess they just see themselves as the victim and they need some kind of coddling. Ridiculous!!!
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Well done tmt for not consenting to your brother’s bad behavior. These people need to be called out. It reminded me of my xh while having an affair, he started telling families from his side and our mutual friends that I was the problem and that’s why he was leaving me. All the while he was planning a holiday with his ex gf that became his ow. And yet up to this day he still acts like a victim.
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I'm so sorry about your health problems tmt. I hope that you recover soon!
Thank you for sharing about your brother's x. I hope her life is so joyful moving forward.
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I didn't want to take over Songanddance's thread. There was a question about what it looks like to reconcile/reconnect. I wanted to address that if I could. I think each person's situation will be different. Can you consider letting go of the past and being friends and good parents reconciling even if you each continue separate lives. I absolutely think that is a form of reconciling. I mean we were friends as well as spouses. So becoming friends again and working through the past in my opinion is for sure reconciling. Just not the romantic kind.
Also, I think each way of reconciling is different. Some people go all in, move in together and work through it the best they can. Some people take their time, keep some space and work through it that way. Some trying to reconcile with have a LBS sitting on the fence. (That's me btw) So boundaries are very strong and it takes more time and a lot of patience. (To some that may seem like wasted time, but to me not so much.)
Do I consider my x and I reconciled. Yes. But not in the traditional sense. We have come a long way. We are good to each other. Our kids come first. We help each other out and we are friends. We get along and spend time together when we can.
I see that as us being reconciled. We have put the past behind us for the most part and there is forgiveness and kindness. I am happy with this type of reconciliation and so is he. Yes, he would like to progress to more but I'm still fence sitting. And he understands that.
Of course, I dreamed of having a romantic reconciliation, as most of us do. Where x would come out of MLC and rush to my door and want to come home and I would welcome him with open arms. That is a beautiful dream but it's not my reality. And I'm ok with that.
I would rather take many years to evolve into a romantic type thing naturally from shared respect and care and understanding of each other. If that happens. I have this second chance at living life on more of my terms. And I'm not interested in rushing into anything.
So to sum up - I believe there are several different kinds of reconciliations. It doesn't just have to be a romantic reconciliation or restoring the marriage type thing. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be with your SO. Maybe you are reconciling with yourself. That can be a pretty great path of reconciling too.
I understand in the context here of reconciliation threads it is for the purpose of reconciling the relationship. I was speaking in general, not just in regards to here.
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Hope you are feeling better. Man, bravo to your SIL. Whoaaaaaa!!! That is hard to do. I can remember when my X left and I did the quick divorce. Looking back I still dont know how I did it. The rollercoaster came later
I love that you have a reconciliation as a friendship with “ who knows what can happen” I would love just a friendship for my kids sake and that was always the plan before OWife squashed our chance at that. I think any type of resemblance of a family is always better.
Thanks for the update!!
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I agree toomanytears. It might not be possible in the early years to have this type of relationship, but if the LBSer is open to it, some MLCers will desire time with them and the family.
It is hard, when the LBS wants more and some find it easier to cut them out of their lives forever and completely.
Remaining open to all possibilities is a good plan.
My husband has always been what I guess we call a "clinging boomeranger". Talking with my therapist concerning whether or not I should allow him to see us ...and I have written this here before ....she said I can change my mind from one day to the next. I can choose to see him or not...that really is up to me.
And so I have always said "yes" to him.
Sometimes we use the word "doormat" to indicate that there is something "wrong" with allowing the MLCer to share any of our lives...or "have their cake and eat it too". These phrases are not helpful as they might cause the LBSer to think there is something weak or wrong with her/him to "allow" this.
It takes a great deal of strength, forgiveness, understanding and love to show a MLCer this type of response...for someone that has caused much pain...but it can also alleviate any fear of being in their company and gave me the ability to feel healed because his presence doesn't throw me into a "state" the way it once did.
My studying of many years about MLC has me convinced that he did not choose to go into a crisis....and that the idea that a crisis is the mother of depressions helped me to see him in a different light.
it's been a long time...over 14 years and there are changes in him but we live very different lives. We enjoy one another, he confides many things in me still and I feel acceptance has been the key for me to be much happier than I once was.
But, as we always say, everyone deals with this in their own way and does what is right for them and their situation. There is no one size fits all.
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It is hard, when the LBS wants more and some find it easier to cut them out of their lives forever and completely.
And sometimes the MLCer has married and even had children with another person. This can change things for some LBS since they want to respect that marriage and have boundaries on engaging with a married man, even if it is an XH.
As an LBS, I'm super sensitive to attempts to encroach on other relationships. If I even get a whiff of someone trying to get too close to me--especially if they complain about their spouse--I shut that down right away. I do that in a lot more direct and pointed way than I would have in the past. In my head I'm saying, buddy, you just tried the wrong thing with the wrong person. You have no idea. Lol
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My XH is married. That has stopped our friendship. In ways Inunderstand it and in others I think that there should always be respect for the mother or father of your spouses children. My XH OWife is not in any way normal. If she was I think we could all be friends, honestly. If. We divorced and he picked her and chose to continue to pick her in front of me then their would be not reason for jealousy or insecurities. That is a healthy break up of a marriage and healthy statt of a new marriage. IMHO
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Well 10 years has gone by since bd. Time flies. That’s a chunk of change. I’m not sure how I feel about that.
I remember a long time ago, towards the beginning of all this, someone told me that compared to 29 years of marriage being apart through all this for 5 or 6 years is just a drop in the bucket. It was worded much better than that but that’s the gist of it. Back then it made sense to me. It just doesn’t seem like such a small chunk of change to me now.
I have gone on with my life. I do have a good life. I am happy most of the time. No one is happy all the time. Lol. I actually have a much better life now. Probably wouldn’t have that if all this hadn’t happened. So in many ways I’m beyond ok with that. But I do have some resentment about it all.
Most of that resentment caused by me because I did live my life but never fully shut the door and moved on. Which left me in a state of limbo of my own making.
And I know it’s my own fault but I resent him for it. Not continuously. It just pops up here and there.
It interferes in my moving forward even now. I sit in the fence with x. I feel safe there. Not making any commitments to him keeps me emotionally safe. I don’t have to make a decision either way. How messed up is that. Lol. Living in limbo now is my safe place I guess.
X continues to improve but a a turtles pace. You really have to be very abrupt with him when he’s crossing boundaries. But he eventually gets it. I can’t figure out if he’s really that dense or he does it on purpose to try to throw his weight around. Maybe it’s a bit of both.
He still has a Debbie downer attitude a lot of the time. And that wears on me. So much negativity from him. I think he’s struggling with depression, he’s even said he thinks he’s struggling with depression. He moved to a new place when he was here from work in Alaska. Youngest d and I helped him move. We walked into one room that he keeps the door closed to and holy $h!te. It was unbelievable. Youngest d just looked at him and said, what are you? A hoarder? He just hung his head and said he was sorry. Things just got out of control. When he is home from work he is off 2 to 3 weeks at a time. And I guess he just sat at his house and piled everything in that room.
He goes nowhere but the grocery when he’s here unless I go with him. I got him to take riding lessons when he’s here 3 days a week and he will take those. Because the instructor is my friend and she stays on his butt. Plus I think he feels comfortable with her so he will go without me. But that’s it. He won’t ride the motorcycle unless I go. Has no friends. Doesn’t get out there at all.
And I resent that too. But at 5he same time I understand he’s struggling. But then the resentment gets worse because I’m like where was this firetrucker when I was struggling. He didn’t care one bit.
It’s all so confusing.
I’m not sure how to work through all this.
At least this valentines he didn’t send me stupid ass flowers. I’ve told him and told him I do not like Valentine’s Day and to quit with that crap. I understand it’s difficult for him as well. So don’t get me wrong I get that he sometimes doesn’t know what he should or shouldn’t do. But I’ve been clear about the flowers. I will buy my own. I don’t want any from him. If you know my story you know why. This year he sent me a bag of m & m’s. Lol. My favorite. He’s in Alaska so he ordered them off Amazon and had them gift wrapped. LOL!!! That was an expensive bag of m & m’s. But I did appreciate them.
I think I’m just venting. This time of year just sits a bit heavy on me sometimes.
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It seems like you have made some important observations about yourself in the last post. That you feel resentment and that you feel in limbo are the one's that stick out to me. And that in your signature you say you are 'done' but in your post you say you are on the fence. A therapist would love to get their teeth into these :) You have some much wisdom TMT - I doubt any of us could say anything you haven't thought already. You are coming to terms with your X as he is perhaps - he doesn't, and didn't, have the capacity to support you through hard times (would you say that is true?) . I know that, my H, he cannot take responsibility for anything. And that's not new. He, like many other MLCrs missed some sort of developmental stage - he didn't acquire good coping skills. Lack of coping skills and taking responsibility - they are closely aligned IMO. It may sound obvious, but this pretty much explains most of my H's behaviours. It's something I guess I notice with your X. What's to be done with that?
Thank you for continuing to share. Your posts are always so insightful.
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TMT- I totally get the resentment at times and being irritated to have moved so far along but to resent that you still resent at times. I feel pretty ok most the times, but it doesn’t ever escape me that this isn’t what I planned and I am such a devoted and loyal person that it is hard to move on in some ways. When you liked where and what your future looked like it is still a mind F if we are honest that we had this even happen.
Sometimes I’m just mad that I married someone that was so undeveloped in their maturity that they did things to myself and my kids I wouldn’t do to my worst enemy ( if I had one)
I think I just always try to lean into the calm times and that to be honest that I am not him or OWife. I think it’s great that at least your H is around and talking and shows love to you. That is much better than the ghost that most of us have.
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Most of that resentment caused by me because I did live my life but never fully shut the door and moved on. Which left me in a state of limbo of my own making.
And I know it’s my own fault but I resent him for it. Not continuously. It just pops up here and there.
It interferes in my moving forward even now. I sit in the fence with x. I feel safe there. Not making any commitments to him keeps me emotionally safe. I don’t have to make a decision either way. How messed up is that. Lol. Living in limbo now is my safe place I guess.
I so recognise this..
However now I realise that it was an important thing for me to go through. I
You mention in an earlier post that you consider yourself to be reconciled with your H and yet you "sit on the fence because it feels safe" This is what I view as reconnection because there is an element of safety in reconnection. The communication between the LBS and MLC are better, clearer, more honest and also from differing but healthy viewpoints.
To me reconciliation is not the "same old same old" returned a few years later on .
Living in limbo can only last so long before you realise that decisions have to be made. They don't need to be big ones but ones that allow you to grow.
H and I have been separated 2 years now and our relationship is better, more open and honest than before. I will tell H my feelings, my frustrations etc and he will do the same. Before MLC, we sort of kept any intense discussion to massive major moments or events and soldiered on (possibly repressing minor feelings)
I like having my own place. I also know that I could live with H again. I'm choosing not to for the time being. H and I are fully reconnected and I don't consider us reconciled and that's good with me.
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I should clarify. I never meant reconciled in the manner of being back together in a romantic way. We are only reconnecting. I meant reconciled in being at friends. Which I do consider him my friend. Reconciled with the end of the marriage. Reconciled to be good parents and grandparents together. And to be good to each other. We have agreed to continue that even if we never “ reconcile” in a romantic committed way. If that makes sense.
He wants to move forward to the reconciliation as is usually defined here as fully being together as a couple. That is his definition of reconciling. Mine is different and I see reconciling as where we are at. Being friends and being good to each other and working toward a better understanding of each other. Being able to enjoy our family together. I see that as huge compared to what we have been through.
If he and I were to ever find our way to a romantic and committed relationship I would not consider that reconciling. I would consider that a new relationship. I do not wish to have the relationship I had with him when we were married. I do not want to go back to that. So we will never reconcile in that manner.
It’s very confusing how I see things. I understand that. Reconciling can have a different meaning for each person. I have said that the worst part of all this was the manner in which he treated me and the kids. That is what hurt the most. That has been reconciled. And we are at a better place for it. All of that I am super happy about and at ease with.
We have all worked hard to get to this point. Putting many hurts aside and accepting that I’ll never have the full story or understanding of all this. Having to let go of as much of that as I can. The kids having to do the same. And x also having to let go and learn to accept his family who are all very different now. I do consider that reconciling although not in a romantic way.
If this is as far as we get I still consider it a very good thing and I’m content with that.
I still have moments of course where all the past gets under my skin. I would say that’s normal. But I recognize it deal with it vent about it then put it away.
So if I use reconnected or reconciled incorrectly I do apologize. I just see the meaning of those words differently in my situation.
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So if I use reconnected or reconciled incorrectly I do apologize. I just see the meaning of those words differently in my situation.
Absolutely no apology necessary. I fully see where you are coming from and my interpretations of the words do not mean that yours are wrong or misused in any way shape or form.
I think I was trying to help you see that there is a way forward from sitting on the fence and "being safe " or in limbo.
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FYI - this has nothing to do with mlc. I just want to share a very important moment in my life.
Some of you will know about my mustang, Rain. For those that don’t a short recap. I got a wild mustang about 8 years ago and gentled her and trained her for everything except ridden work.
I learned a lot doing this. A lot about myself. And the joy I have gotten by being with this horse has been a lifesaver.
When it was time for ridden work I put her with a trainer. In short it was a disaster and I brought her back and have not had any ridden work done since then except a few rides from an experienced trainer a couple years ago. But it wasn’t my style and I stopped that.
Well a few weeks ago this young trainer from Oklahoma is here for a few months. He is working with a few horses that are stabled with my horses. I met him and watched him work those horses. He’s very talented.
I asked if he’d be willing to work with Rain under saddle but only when I’m there. He agreed. The first day he met her and spent some time with her and groomed her. Said he had never worked with a mustang before. The next thing I know he’s saddling her up. I asked if he thought that was wise. He said she is better behaved than most domestics he works with and he can see all the groundwork has been done well with her so why not.
Well he swung on up in the saddle and she didn’t flinch. And then they started getting to work. She has had a few moments that she was resistant but he helped her through those. So far no buck no bolt no rearing. She is picking up her leads most of the time. They are opening and closing gates. Playing with her big bouncy ball. All under saddle. She is still pulling on the bit more often than not but only when there is speed. At a walk or slow trot she’s soft. He said it’s just gonna take some time for her to get more balanced and feel more comfortable.
So she’s doing super good. He told me she is gonna be a perfect trail partner for me.
But the best news - I finally got to ride my mustang. Finally. After all this time. And she is so comfortable. Like she was made for me. I’ve waited a long time. Put in a lot of hard work. It has been so worth it.
I love this horse so much. I love my gelding too but the connection is different. And Sunny is fully retired now and he doesn’t mind just hanging out with me but he’s so bossy. lol. It’s worse with his age he’s now bossy and grumpy. lol.
So this was a big milestone for me and I wanted to share. Maybe I’ll finish this dream of mine with my sweet mustang. To go out west to Wyoming where she is from and ride those trails with her. Ya never know.
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This is such a fabulous post TMT! I am so so happy for you! I do know what it feels like to want so badly to get to that next step in training a horse and the frustration when you can't quite manage it. It's such a great feeling when it all starts coming together (I feel a tiny bit similar in that I finally started handling work with my 7mth colt Whisky the other day. Just popped a halter on him like he'd done it a hundred times before! Such a relief to have that first bit done). Keep us updated about your journey with Rain!
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Evermore horses are just fabulous aren’t they? We can’t have egos around them and they teach us to keep ourselves in check. Lol.
I certainly know youngsters take a lot more knowledge than I have. Lol. There is so much they have to be taught. It’s a big undertaking but I know it will be worth it and Whiskey is gonna be awesome. The bond you will have will be amazing.
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I have learned a lot from all this. Mostly about myself. I still can’t quite wrap my head around mlc. At first I knew nothing and I read and I learned. Then I believed it because I wanted to not because I fully understood it. Then I didn’t believe it at all. Then I did. Then I didn’t. Up and down. And to this day I have no idea whether he had a crisis or he was just a big ole $h!te face.
But I learned a lot about me and the way I think and the way I see the world and people.
I’ve learned most things are not strictly right or wrong. I was a big proponent of what’s right is right and what’s wrong is wrong type of thinking. I still lean that way and I certainly will draw a line in the sand but I’ve also learned that I can move that line either way depending on the circumstances.
I’ve learned about forgiveness. That isn’t always as straight forward as it seems and not everything needs or should be forgiven. But sometimes grace can be given when warranted.
I’ve learned to keep an eye on my own behavior first and foremost. Because I’m far from perfect I can’t expect others to be perfect either. This is where boundaries are very effective for me. Not just for others but for myself too.
I guess right now I’m learning if I want to move forward from this I have to let go of finding the reason. You know, the real reason. Was it mlc. Was he just a jerk? Was my life just a big ole lie. All those questions that no matter what he tells me I know I’ll never truly believe. I will always question it.
I guess I can only take what is presented to me now. Decide if that’s something I’m willing to put myself out there for. I still haven’t decided.
I feel terrible that I can’t decide. He has been hanging in there and trying his best. He gets better as time goes on. It’s like one step forward and 2 steps backward. He says he gets scared of offending me and ruining everything. He says he’s trying to work through that because he knows that’s not fair to me or him.
It’s all very difficult and sad. He’s me when all this started and I’m him except I’m not cheating or being a total b!tc# bag. But the power isn’t evenly distributed in this. And I know how that feels. And I’m not giving any of my power up to compensate. He’s got to step up and get rid of his fears to even this out.
He told me last night he wanted me to look at something he wanted to buy. He showed me on his phone and it was a man’s ring. I said it’s nice if you want it buy it. You don’t have to ask me. It’s a western themed ring. He said well it matters because it’s a wedding band. Me and my smart mouth asked him who he is marrying. 😏
Anyway lol. He said he would like to have it if I wouldn’t mind. It would make him happy but he wouldn’t if it bothered me. I said it’s up to him as long as he knows I’m never wearing one. He said he understands that.
He told me that until all this happened he always believed that if I ever pulled some $h!te like this he would be done. (I’ve heard he was done and I didn’t do any of this $h!te. Lol). But after all this he knows that terrible things can happen to people. Things they can’t always control or understand. And if I lost my freaking mind he’d just wait for me to figure it out.
He said the whole time he just wanted to come home. But he was too afraid and ashamed and confused to face anything. He said he still struggles with shame. But it has gotten better since he has learned to forgive himself.
He said he’s also learned that it’s ok for me to not be perfect. To think differently and not tie his happiness to me. Do you think we were a bit codependent. Lol.
Living apart these last several years after his craziness has been the right thing. He’s had to learn to be on his own. Deal with the fact I have my own life and my own things I like to do without him. That he needs to find his own way. His own things. Be happy with himself. That’s been a process. It’s still difficult for him but I keep my boundaries pretty strong. I only see him a few times when he is here. I stopped going to his riding lessons. He now goes on his own.
He’s making some friends although that seems to be hard for him. But he’s trying to branch out a bit. He’s still being nice to me and the kids. I do see when he is stressed about something he gets very reserved and quiet and puts on a grumpy face. Lol. I just ignore it. Sometimes he will share what is bothering him and sometimes he says nothing. That used to bother me. I never wanted him to be upset. Weird huh? Now I don’t worry about it. We all have struggles and it’s ok to be stressed and not want to share.
But it is sad we didn’t try and figure out this stuff when we were younger. It’s sad that all this happened and caused such pain. But life ain’t easy. And we are all flawed. And time heals. And change is hard. And lessons in life don’t come easy.
But I’ve learned through all this to really love the beautiful things in my life. A hug or a smile from my kids. How happy my little dog is when I get home from work. The joy of my horses running down the pasture to say hello. The beautiful butterflies that come every year to my bushes around the house. I live in a bird sanctuary so I get to see all these beautiful birds off all kinds just hanging around my yard. The wildflowers that grow all over here and in my yard.
It makes me smile when another driver gives me a wave when I’ve been considerate and let them in. Just all those little things in life keep me smiling and remembering how lucky I really am.
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And I feel so lucky reading your musings. Bless and thank you for sharing. It's been 6.5 years since my BD and I feel like I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, and a lot of it is still on the horizon. Your example floods me with hope. Onward.
My ex-H asked to attend my mother's funeral. I said no. I didn't mean to be mean. I just knew he was the greatest reminder of loss in my life, and I could not celebrate my beloved mother's amazing life if he was in attendance. To this date has not shown a moment's awareness of the impact of what he did to me and our daughter - not so much as a "It's unfortunate but" - he never so much as asked after my mom during Covid. His motto was severance of all ties.
Strangely a large part of me does forgive him. I understand, like you say, how hard life is, and how I was imperfect.
What remains is the fact that my capacity for absolute suffering was unhappily perfect at times; a fact he at least had an inkling of. I had inherited a lot of trauma from my family - absolutely not my parents' fault, they outran their pain and minimized the damage to us kids -- and his unkindness brought down the fortifications I had thrown up painstakingly against that trauma.
I trusted him so much that I let him in. I have only ever been with two men in my life, for all practical purposes.
He is a world away from where your husband is, toomany. I do think he feels a lot of shame as well. It all turns into self-pity with an efficiency that glucose in our blood can only dream of. And he has as much disdain for himself as he ever did for me, for what he saw at the time as my pathetic weakness in continuing to love him. So long as he does that he will not grow or heal.
But I held on to my principles when I saw him last month. I vowed to extend agape and to draw boundaries. He has not acted like a friend. I treated him like an old friend who has nearly forgotten me, which is true enough :)
I am at peace. I trust that the higher powers will have him in their keeping. He knows I still love him in the purest way. He is just unable to be loved any other way.
Bless us all and thank you again.
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TMT and S,
What impactful posts you both made, thanks.
It's a hard road all around and even when the LBS comes into their own, no matter if there is reconciliation or not, the experience of loss was immense.
I smiled at your mention of your "smart mouth" TMT.
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What great posts TMT and S ! Your messages bring tears to my eyes. I daresay that, if there is something we LBS might want to "win", it is that sense of joy in the life brought by the little daily things : a smile, a hug, a wave from other people.
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What a great reflections. I can relate to so much except my XH remarried and is pretty much vanished for me and our kids and grandson. I to grappled with is he an A-hole or was he in crisis. I came to conclusion that either way something is wrong. I was not perfect, far from it, but there is still common decency on how your treat people and specially people you loved. There is some freedom in knowing that due to that it really was not our fault how we were treated. I also try an appreciate those small things and even my life with my XH. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a good life and we accomplished a lot. I appreciated it. These men that leave like this don't appreciate what they had. Life is pretty simple. Appreciate life you have. Those that show up and especially those who offer you love.
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Just a short vent. I live in Florida and on the west coast. X is here at his place as he has 3 weeks off from his job in Alaska. His place here is about 15 miles from my home and not far from he coast. I offered to him that he could stay at my home through the storm as it’s safer. He accepted and slept on the couch.
The first night was awkward but we were all focused on the storm so stress probably added to the awkwardness. The next day after the storm passed he went to check on his place. Fortunately not flooded but power poles and lines down so not accessible and no power. So he stayed the night last night. It was better and we talked a bit and mostly just took it easy.
He was still without power today so stayed. I had to go into the dealership which left him at my house with our daughter. I called to check in and she said everything was going well and he was mowing my yard and she was just cleaning her room and bathroom. But that they were getting along fine. They made plans for when I got off work to go pick up Chili’s so no one had to cook and afterward we could play cards. Sounded great to me.
So when I got off work I came home and we went and picked up dinner and ate. Everything was fine. Then we broke out the cards. We were having fun. Laughing. Teasing each other.
Then all of a sudden he throws his cards across the table and says he’s done with this $h!te and storms out to my back patio. What the hell!? Daughter and I are just looking at each other in shock. I kept my cool.
He eventually walks back in and asks why did we put the cards up? I said we are done playing. He says for me not to be like that. Can you imagine? I’m really ready to rip his face off at this point. To behave like that in my home in front of our daughter is not acceptable.
I told him we are done playing cards. That his behavior was totally out of line and that I am not putting up with that in my home I couldn’t believe how calmly I stated this to him. I guess I did really learn a few things in therapy. Lol.
He asked if I wanted him to go. I said I don’t feel comfortable with you here. He got his suitcase, I moved my truck out of his vehicles way and sent him on his way.
I’ve seen him trying to control his anger quite a lot recently. It’s reminiscent of bd where he’d check out and put his head in his hands. Very weird behavior.
Anyway no way no how was he staying in my house after that.
I have no idea if he has any power at his place yet but I don’t care.
I’m just glad that I kept my cool so my daughter didn’t have to suffer from some huge crazy $h!te on my part.
I just don’t get it. He’s having a good day with our daughter and then just screws it all up being a jerk. I’m not even gonna try and figure it out. Just here smh.
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What’s that funny quote about no good deed going unpunished????
Sounds like you dealt with the situation calmly and decisively - no one could do better than that. I suspect it has also reinforced your long standing choice to keep him on the edge of your life regardless of his words about wanting more.
Suspect it has also left you and your daughter scratching your heads somewhat but I hope that you have reached the shrug stage more quickly than you would have done many years ago.
Why do folks act that way? I have no idea - it’s almost like a toddler having a tantrum while the parent calmly says ‘use your words’ isn’t it? Obviously something in the moment caused him to feel uncomfortable in some way and that was his way of dealing with the feeling. If he did so at work of course I suspect he’d get a punch in the mouth, cold shouldered or fired….if that’s not happened, I guess it tells you that he thought he could get away with that kind of behaviour with you guys - I am much more jaded than I used to be about how much control over one’s own behaviour even the obviously disordered actually have lol - so good thing that you showed quickly and clearly that he can’t. Even his response afterwards was pretty childish, wasn’t it? That ‘no idea why you’ve stopped playing’ and ‘I suppose you want me to leave thing’? Ridiculous nonsense from an adult. Instead of just using his words like an adult to say I’m sorry, I felt this bc x and I reacted inappropriately, it’s not your fault but I think it’s best I leave….
I imagine you and you daughter feel inclined to have a period of sharply reduced contact now. To leave him to his own mess metaphorically and in practice. I’m sure you know now after all these years, just as we say repeatedly, that whatever it was it was nothing to do with you or your daughter and you have no obligation to play nursemaid to his inability to manage his own feelings and behaviour. That’s super hard in the first couple of years, isn’t it, when most of us try so hard to understand non-sense things like this….it’s a blessing to reach a point where one can see and say clearly Nope, not my circus.
Looking back, my own WTF crazy s$it probably started about the same time as yours did until my then h’s lid blew off so fully that one couldn’t unsee it and off to the crazy races we went. It was hard and painful to then, after a year or do of complete chaos and non-sense, be forced into divorce and for him to vanish so completely. Leaving me with a lot of destruction of a life I valued, and lots of questions but no answers outside the ones I could find myself. Today I have no idea if he is even alive or how normal an adult he is in his new chosen life and second marriage. But today tbh, although I could not have foreseen it, I see his disappearance as more of a blessing than a curse. I didn’t choose to erase him or live as if he had died, but there are many ways in which it makes life and healing a bit easier. Strange how things pan out, isn’t it?
Glad to hear that you are all ok though - Storm Helene sounds like it was a grim one.
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Wow what an update. It’s interesting to see that even after 10 years a crisis may not be over. Sometimes I cannot avoid but think my x must have a happier life now that Im out of his life. But hearing these kinds of update makes me realize it’s not all happy life as what they project on social media. It’s amazing how you handled that moment. To remain calm after such disrespect. I could not have done it better I guess if I were in your shoes. Well done!
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I don’t post much anymore. There isn’t a lot to post about regarding mlc. I’m still chugging along. Kids and grandkids are all great. Loving my little Yorkshire terrier. She will be 3 in October. Time flies. She’s one of the best decisions I’ve made. Love her so much. I added another horse to the family and I got a new horse trailer last month.
As far as the mlc’r goes, he’s still around. He’s started therapy. Been in it for a couple of months. Wanted me to join in. I said no thank you. He needs to figure himself out. I’m not interested in being involved in that.
I can tell you trying to let someone back into your life on more than a basic level that has done the things he has is very difficult for me.
The weirdest part isn’t that the way I feel has anything to do with trusting him (I don’t trust or distrust him at this point). It has nothing to do with the fact he cheated and abandoned the family. Because honestly I just don’t care about that crap anymore. Because I know if it happened again it would not break me. At all.
I’m not sure exactly what it is that I just keep him in a friends zone, but that’s where he is and I’m perfectly happy with that. I have no care at all that it’s nothing more than that. He does but I don’t.
Superficially he puts on the charm. Plays the good guy, so interested in my life, the kids lives. Loves to throw in that we are a “team” and I can count on him.
I certainly can count on him. I can count on him to escalate any problem I have like the drama queen he is. I can count on him to want to solve my problem by throwing money at it instead of just being a shoulder while I figure things out. I can count on him to become involved in any activity I enjoy and not find his own stuff to do. I can count on him to continuously ask me what I think he should do about any problem he has in his life. I refuse to play that game.
I know everyone is hoping their spouse will return to them. I wanted that too. But through this so many of us grow and branch out. We often times become better versions of ourselves and have bettered ourselves. We’ve learned about codependency and how damaging that is and we’ve worked hard to break that cycle and become whole.
The person that returns from mlc like mine, may not have done the work, like mine.
The person that returns may, like mine, just want things to return to what they were. If you have put in the work to find happiness in yourself, returning to what was may not be acceptable to you.
I hold resentment toward him for not doing the hard work. For thinking he could just come back and behave a bit better and everything just go back to what was. He likes to throw around the “hey tmt do you remember when we did this or that blah blah blah. “. My answer everytime is nope I don’t remember that. He likes to go down memory lane but I don’t. I built a new life that I really like, even though sometimes it’s difficult. I don’t care about any past memories that included him.
I don’t know if he will ever do the inner work, find his own happiness and all that. I’m honestly at a point I really just don’t care if he does or doesn’t.
But just know this. Make a good life for yourself. Treat yourself well and enjoy those people in your life that love you and that you love. Because you don’t know if your mlc spouse will return and you might not want them back if they do.
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Well said tmt! Thank you for sharing this!
It is all so important to hear
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I always enjoy your updates TMT. Quotes of yours often come to mind. Thank you for continuing to share.
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Just a little update. For those of you who are just starting down this crazy path. It is scary. And it will take time for you to find your way. But eventually you will find your way forward. And when you do I want you to believe in yourself. Trust yourself. Cheer yourself on.
When I started down this path I was starting over completely. I had left a very high paying career and was struggling to find a position in my field of work. Of course that is when bd happened and it was the absolute worst time financially for me. I was so scared.
I took the first job that was offered to me just to have some income coming in because the mlc was not helping out financially. I was promoted quickly there but the pay was still not where I needed to be.
I ended up taking a position in a field I had never been involved with. I was drowning financially but I also needed stability for my d so I stuck it out. I am still in that field of work and have been promoted many times.
That led me to be able to purchase my own home 5 years ago. I am now purchasing another home with acreage so I can have my horses on my property. My closing date is the 10th.
When I look back my life revolved around my kids and my mlc’r. Funny how I’ve soared since he left. It didn’t happen overnight and it wasn’t easy but I can guarantee you it wouldn’t have happened at all if he had stayed with me.
You will struggle to get through this. It will be painful and scary and carry its own set of disappointments.
But if you trust yourself and believe in yourself you will find a way through it to be able to live the life that you choose.
I can tell you this. My life, even with all the stress of being a one person show, my life is much happier and at ease than it was when I was married.
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Fantastic story! Nothing more uplifting for me personally than an inspiring sister. Well done! And a lifelong source of confidence and hope for your daughter. Best wishes.
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So glad you've been able to move to a property where you can have your horses!
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The barn will be going up in the next 2 weeks!!! My home that I was selling got an offer in the first 48 hours it was listed and the closing is Friday. I am very thankful!!!!
The new place is great. And my horses will be home as soon as the barn is complete.
The x asked to put his camper on my property as I have an RV hookup. He’s only here a few times a year as he works in Alaska. It was no big deal to me and he took some time off from work to help with the final push of getting everything done for the sale. He’s also going to help me with the overseeing of the barn build. I am doing a pole barn and adding the stalls myself. So I’m glad to have the help.
The x has had a hard time finding his way. It’s also been a long time! One step forward and then right back to his normal $h!te. I’ve kept my boundaries, I’ve tried to help, I’ve listened, I’ve been stern. Honestly you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves.
So I just stopped. He is a very nervous person these days. He gets worked up over the smallest things. He was having a complete meltdown over helping me move my motorcycles and his tools. That’s what was left to do before closing. He just kept spinning around in a circle of how he was going to do it. What he should get first. If he should get help. On and on.
I didn’t fall into that trap this time. I just told him that is what he offered to do and however he decides to get it done is up to him. And I walked away. And he figured it out without my input. I told him the same thing on the barn. He offered to be the one overseeing it because I’m working so much. He started spinning on that too. I just told him you know what my budget is and what I need and where I want it. I’m sure you’ll figure it out and if you don’t want to do it that’s fine.
He’s on it like crazy.
It was the cycle from when we were married. He’d want or offer to do something and then need tons of input from me and then complain when it was completed and blame me for the outcome.
It’s hard to break old habits. He actually thanked me for stepping off and leaving him to work through it. He said he doesn’t know why his mind spins like that but it does and he needs to deal with that and work through it when it happens.
He said it’s hard for him to get out of his own way sometimes. But he said he keeps working at it and he makes progress and he’s happy he just falls into old habits sometimes. Those are the hardest to break.
He has been more open and talkative about stuff. We don’t go too in depth anymore. Just the basics sometimes. I don’t care to live in the past anymore.
He has been trust worthy so there is that. As we were driving the other day he just reached over and grabbed my hand and told me he loved me very much and always had and always would and that he was very sorry. And he just kept driving and holding my hand and I just sat there holding his.
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The barn sounds lovely. It will be so good to have your horses close. You are doing great tmt! I'm proud of you for walking away and letting him figure those things out!