Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: BurnedBridge on July 27, 2024, 02:45:47 PM
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Hi,
I have been a watcher of this forum for a month and finally decided to post my story. For the whole month of June I had an intuition that something was off with my husband (39M) but I (30F) have a form of OCD that sometimes hyper focuses on my romantic relationships. I had been in therapy for a year and was making incredible progress, essentially it was gone (or I just healthy coped with it so that I had no symptoms). My husband used this to his advantage as I began to feel something was off. He was try and twist it so that I thought it was my mental health, which again my OCD was essentially dormant for the past year and even before then minimally popped up. He would make me feel crazy for worrying, watch me breakdown and feel so terrible for accusing him. He saw as dropped weight from the worry, began juicing and eating as healthily as I could as it does have an impact, albeit slightly, on the severity of my OCD, I requested urgent appointments with my therapist that I hadn't seen in nearly a year because I was asymptomatic. I broke down to him one day telling him I am so sorry, that I am terrified of sabotaging our marriage due to myself and that I don't want to do anything to risk losing us and will do whatever I can. Looking back, he was beyond manipulative with me, pretending my accusations were wild or I was crazy for being a bit concerned he'd become so fixated on appearance, stopping kissing me at night, seemed snappy with me when he was never like that before. He would feed into the narrative that it was my OCD worries bubbling up.
On July 3rd (BD), for whatever reason, while he was still asleep I got into his phone and found messages between him and a female coworker. They were absolutely inappropriate. To be honest, I didn't want to see it and hardly scrolled to see how long it had been going on, what was said, etc., but it was definitely inappropriate as they spoke about dating each other, wanting each other. Funnily enough my husband sent her videos of BMX.... He did BMX when he was 15, as if he does any of that today. That still makes me chuckle and cringe. He bought 90's grunge clothes, lots of stuff for his thinning hair that is worsening.
I confronted him and left to my sister's. The thing I will remember most from that day is me waking him up, showing him his phone and saying "we have to talk" then the look of disgust he had on his face for me and him wrestling his phone out of my hand. I mean, dragging me down to get it from me. That was heartbreaking.
Anyways, I find out this woman has a partner and multiple children and is actually older than me, which I thought unusual. She's closer to his age. He never wanted kids. Not because he hates kids, we both have always loved kids and spoiled my nephews. But didn't want them as that just wasn't our path, and we had countless conversations confirming back and forth that was what we wanted and, if anything, he was always 100% while I was 99% sure. So....this felt odd to me. Maybe grasping at the opposite life to what he had.
Back story on us, we met over 10 years ago on a poetry writing forum in 2013. He was from England and I the US. We were not looking for anything besides writing poetry but quickly became absolutely enamored with each other. We were best friends, talked as much as the day and workday allowed, we could talk for hours about nothing and it was hypnotic. Fast forward to 2018, we get married in England after multiple long-stay trips back and forth, and live there for 2 years. We were besotted with each other. We realized we had more opportunity in the US for my work and also we wanted a house with land, which wasn't financially feasible where we lived in England. We moved to the US in 2020, our love as strong, if not stronger, than ever and began setting up our life here. He quickly climbed the ladder at his job, I changed my job and found more financial success. We saved like crazy to buy a house.
This brings us to last October. His dog, that he had most of his adult life, that moved with us, died. She was 13 and loved a really wonderful life but it impacted him badly. He seemed to grieve her, we both did, then life carried on and in May we closed on our first home together. This was our dream home, it ticked all our boxes and some of those boxes were a bit wonky, so it was fate. Shortly after or during the closing process, I found a lipoma on his shoulder that was growing. He had surgery to get it removed and was prescribed painkillers. These are all, I believe, markers for the mudslide for his midlife crisis. He never fully grieved his dog and she was his last connection to home. The house was a goal we had for years and I think reaching this freaked him out, as if all doors shut when in reality, at least to me, it opened all doors for us to no longer have tunnel vision on one goal. In spite of all this, we have always been an exceedingly happy, bordering on obsessed with each other, couple. We have spent our full 10 years in the honeymoon phase. Even up until I found out, we were both incredibly affectionate and loving (besides the kiss at night which was the only thing off with the affection). He would still call me beautiful every day, tell me how much he loved me, it still felt just as it always had that we could be in a room of people and just feel like it was me and him there, as cheesy as that is.
This takes us up to the affair, he told me "it's nothing", "I don't want her, I want you", "I like her but not in love with her", yada yada, we need some originality here. I stay with my sister because I am absolutely blown over. She is just as, if not more, blown over. She even said she was in shock because he idolized me, there was no way. I stayed with her on and off, we hardly spoke but I would send texts letting him know the pain I was in, sometimes rude ones if in honest, that I could never be with him. I never knew about MLC at this time. Now I see a neon MLCer sign pointing to him over his thinning head of hair (which, I loved him regardless of hair, no hair, just...still pissed).
We come back together that weekend and I ask for all the information. I see now he hardly gave me anything and I accepted all his sweet talk and "it meant nothing" comments. I feel ridiculous for buying those. He said he would stop communication with her but they work together so I felt sick to my stomach and it felt false. She was in HR by the way, go figure. He agreed it wouldn't happen again, we both need individual therapy, then down the line marriage counseling. I need to grow and he needs to grow, was what I rationalized, and once we do this mess is over and snap, bang we are back madly in love.
It was a rough week of being apart. We had some really deep conversations during that weekend, mostly me trying to listen to these new issues that were really troubling him that, if I'm honest, didn't seem very big to me compared to other traumas he had because he'd never brought them up before, they were when he was much younger and he had other wounds that I had always thought may have been unresolved but maybe not. I listened, I comforted him, I asked open ended questions so it would encourage him, I wanted him to feel safe. He broke down crying a lot. A lot. I thought this was really positive, maybe he is confronting these things and it felt we were bonding over these deep conversations about him. One in particular was his dad cheating on his mom when he was younger and then sort of using him as a pawn between the two of them, though they remained together for another decade after. He also let me know when the affair started he had been abusing prescription pills from his back surgery then began using more prescription pills from an old dental procedure he had a year or so ago. He hardly drinks, doesn't smoke, is pretty straight edge just by choice. This was shocking. He also revealed to me he was self-hxxxxxx (not sure if I needed to censor that).
I stayed nights at my sister's but we reconnected again the following weekend to go our. During this time, I realized he hardly reacted when I first found out. The man I married would have broken down the door to my sister's house to ask for forgiveness. This sorry man did nothing. I initiated all the conversations after, asking what he wants. I initiated the requested to meet up again, to see how we are feeling. We meet up to go have dinner and I try to dress to blow his socks off. Bit embarrassing thinking back that I thought this was a me issue, that I needed to impress HIM, to try to lure in HIM. We have dinner and we are back to us, almost immediately. Flirting, forgetting everyone around us, making each other laugh. Being just ..2 ridiculous adults in nice clothes, pretending we know how to act in a nice restaurant. It was bliss and a snapshot to before everything. This solidifies to me I want to make it work and forgive. We are both feeling so happy. I see his face was lit up throughout the whole meal. Later that night we get to bed and he falls asleep before me. His phone is not on the side, as we had agreed after the first time. We agreed we wouldn't hide our phones at night. I go through his phone and find out he didn't block that woman, and had still been messaging her talking about what it would be like together. I woke him up, yet again and let him know he pulled the final straw. He began panicking, slapping himself in the face repeatedly (which was so strange to me), begging me to talk, begging me to listen to him. He will do anything to make it work, meant nothing, he wasn't in love with her, mistake, needed attention, so on and so forth. I was angry, admittedly saying some rude things in the heat of the moment, then I was broken and broke down for the upteenth time that week, then I felt nothing. I laid in bed just staring off.
During this time and the previous time he never shed a tear. His eyes didn't look like him. Did any of you notice when it seems like there's nothing behind or within the person and their eyes look almost lifeless and emotionless? He has those eyes both times. He came in the bedroom and saw me then he began breaking down and sobbing uncontrollably, nearly hyperventilating. He saw me and it hit him what he'd done. He was inconsolable. I told him he needed to leave for the night. The next day I have a doctor's appointment he had long agreed to take me to and I asked if he could still do me that favor. He was crying off an on during my appointment. I told him after the appointment that I wanted us to say a final goodbye as I have to be done. He cried and cried, we both did. He said he will never be able to find what we had, that we were the best thing in his life and the past 10 years he's been happier than he could have ever dreamt of being. One really kind thing he has said multiple times through this all, and begs me each time that if I believe nothing else from him it's to believe this, he tells me regardless of the outcome he wants me to know it was never, ever anything wrong with me. He couldn't have wished for more in a wife and he doesn't want me to ever doubt, in the future, that there was anything I did or didn't do that led him to this. It was him. There was something wrong in him. Hopefully others out there find comfort in this statement, if you didn't already realize none of this is because of you. It's a them issue.
I really feel like he was being honest every time he said that, which was nice to hear though not necessarily easy to believe. While we were crying at us parting, he seemed human again, and was feeling emotions. The following week we both went back and forth over if we truly wanted things to end. I love him so deeply, always will unfortunately, that I didn't and don't regardless of the pain.
But talking to him now is like talking to a brick wall ...he hardly messages me or initiates any conversation with me. He goes back and forth over if he can recommit to us and making things work or if he needs time to work on himself. I am proud of him for doing therapy weekly. He seems to be really going all in on his therapy, even journaling every day to sit with his emotions, to reflect. I got him work books to figure out who he is, his goals, the aspects of his life that need improving. He was looking into those.
As I've said, we've gone back and forth over the last few weeks on making things work or not. I would want to, then the distance (because we are living apart), him not really showing a desire to communicate with me and the images of the messages and ruminations of the affair would hit me like a ton of bricks and I would get cold feet. I admit I have been flighty about what I want but, to be fair, I feel like I was in wonderland and suddenly was in the eye of a tornado. I've not been the greatest and I have admitted that to him and apologized. I love him so much but he scares me. The way he can hurt me and his disinterest in trying, but being shattered at the thought of us ending, hurts and confused me. I've apologized so many times for being so indecisive but, overall, have tried to be pretty darn supportive and understanding about the whole thing.
He mentioned us trying to take it super slow, maybe rebuild a friendship, maybe in a few months time or years something more will blossom organically when we both grow. As much as I liked the thought of that, the thought of connecting with him and feeling the deep love I do for him and pretending it's less than it is, sounded rough. The thought that he was likely planning on continuing this thing on the side while he "worked in himself" and I acted like a placeholder, hurt me. It hurt me too much. I let him know, by recommendation from my therapist, that I can't accept a vague answer. I need to know if his end goal is for us to get back together and really put in the work for us. He couldn't give me that, still vague and nonchalant. Still not reaching out to me first ...he used to send me sweet good morning messages every day before all this, he was so invested in me and us and we talked throughout most days, even with work, until we were home together again. So this shift is...hard. It's hard to not make more out of it than what it is.
I let him know I can't do this. I can't be potentially a friend that he may potentially want to be with at some unknown point down the line. I was his partner for 10 years. We were crazily in love, we went through thick and thin together, we were best friends. I couldn't regress, it hurt too much, and he didn't seem that effected.
Today is his birthday and he is staying at our old rental, that I have been staying at. He got the house ::) because I would struggle to get by with the mortgage on my own. So he is staying at our rental tonight to spend time with our pets. It's his birthday today. I left him a letter on the table letting him know I have contacted a mediator so we can begin the divorce proceedings and property/asset dividing.
This may not be the way to go about it but I have to go on with my life and go no contact. I have so much healing to do from this. Don't get me wrong, my love for my husband runs incredibly, incredibly deep, deeper than the pain he's caused me. I think he knows the door is never fully closed on him. But for now, I have to get on with my life. I'm 30, I have goals I want to achieve and I want to heal and improve myself, and be around loved ones. I wanted to support him but after he saw me devastated once and to continue with it and to be so distant when I was trying everything to help, I no longer wanted to try. I feel bad this is on his birthday because I know he is going through something, but I'm going through something as well that I have no control over, and I wanted him to let me in again. This feels like my own BD.
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Weekends are often a bit quiet here, so I thought I would pop by to say welcome. This is a kind, safe place full of people who ‘get it’ bc they have walked in similar painful and surreal shoes, despite all our differences in gender and lifestyle and age and where we live. There is probably nothing that you have experienced or will experience in this situation you find yourself in that at least some folks here have not done, thought or felt or struggled with. Imho there can be real comfort in that…if only bc it helps remind you that you are not insane and that this is something that has primarily happened TO you not BECAUSE of you.
I hope that this will be a supportive and useful virtual family for you as you plot your own path forward and find your own way to heal and rebuild. I am rather astonished and impressed by your strength and clarity so early post BD. Perhaps, on the strange way that the universe sometimes brings us unexpected gifts from struggles, your experiences in managing your own mental well being have given you a very useful tool box and some skills in distinguishing real wood from insubstantive trees.
My first reaction on reading your post is that there has been quite a lot of gaslighting going on. Lots of words and few matching actions. A number of us here know what that feels like and how hard it can be to step back far enough to see what is real and useful and what is not. There are different points of view here sometimes about limiting contact with your spouse…imho, for most of us, we need to reduce our interactions with them sharply (at least for a while) to get back in touch with our own version of reality rather than being distracted by theirs. It gives us time to breathe, to ground ourselves a bit on a few square feet of something that feels more solid and less chaotic. It doesn’t have to be that way forever but many of us had to do that for our own survival.
I can see a small inclination for you to feel a bit ashamed or foolish for some of your reactions post BD? Please don’t….it’s a rather lovely quality to choose first to be kind and supportive and patient with someone we love who seems to be unravelling, isn’t it? Until of course it becomes an act of self harm or evidently rather futile. I’d imagine that most of us did something similar initially - I know I did for much longer than served me well. Imho, with hindsight, I largely don’t regret that….it was a comfort to me that I had tried my very best and responded with the kind of effort to understand that I would have hoped for if the roles were reversed. But then there were lots and lots of things I did not know at the time lol, and eventually I had to stop and change my perspective as it became obvious that it wasn’t making anything better for me or anyone else. You wanted him to feel safe, as you said, doubtless bc you understand the importance to you of feeling safe. And then it sounds as if you began to notice the lack of reciprocity, that not only was he not doing things that might make you feel safe but perhaps was actually doing things that made you feel deeply unsafe.
It’s a sad truth, I think, that disordered folks weaponise the best of our natures in these kind of situations…but the fault lies in what they don’t have more than in what we do have in our natures. One learns to stop casting petals before metaphorical swine without losing delight in the essence of the pearls with different folks and in different situations…,
So, breathe. And focus on the basics - sleep, fresh air, taking care of your own physical and emotional well-being. How are you doing with these things so far?
A step back from the surreal chaos these folks create also helps you do a couple of other useful things imho. It helps you remind yourself of the difference between words and actions. It helps you see patterns. It helps you have time to grieve your losses and adjust to the fact that, regardless of what happens in future, this is a life-altering experience that can’t be squeezed back into the toothpaste tube. Again jmo, and MLC spouses come in slightly different flavours while also seemingly playing to a very predictable playbook….so far, it sounds as if your spouse may be a bit of a chaotic boomerang, expecting you to play a role in his current chaos. That may change but it’s a reminder that, when one puts all the chaos to one side, the real question is not about his sadz or confusion or word salad, but what kind of relationship is - or is not - acceptable to you in your life. What you think love and friendship and respect look like in practice for you. Or not. And that you have the right, regardless of what others say or do, to say No, Not Now or Not Like This.
It also gives you time to focus your energy on some of the practical effects that might need action to protect yourself from further damage - finances, housing, legal obligations and rights - all the mess that comes with untangling a long shared life that MLC folks seem to not think much about. How are you doing with these practical bits of fallout?
Well done on being brave enough to share your story while I’m sure that you are still reeling in shock and confusion. If it’s any comfort, quite a lot of LBS who found us early said later that it made a real difference.
You know the details of your situation best….how can we best support you right now, my friend?
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So sorry you are going through this BB. You are among friends and people who get what this kind of event looks and feel like.
Your H sounds a lot like mine. I have hugged and held him through numerous crying meltdowns (his, not mine ::) ). In my case, it seemed to make no difference, as he then continued on the path of self-destruction, burning $h!te up and harming me as he barreled onwards. He too knows it's him, says he is broken and knows he needs help and yet he cannot seem to help himself. That's the rub. Truly, it's not about you, although it's very possible you represent something he cannot bear at the moment - that being the pain he is causing you. Your instincts to limit this seem spot on. Be kind to yourself and take time to be with your feelings. You sound incredibly strong, but being in the wake of this kind of crisis is truly traumatic. You seem to be working very fast - it may be wise to slow your pace a little, because you too have been thrown into crisis, and we tend not to be in the best thinking/ decision making space for a while. Yes, to rolling up the sleeves and securing finances, equally take all the embraces loved ones offer. For me surrounding myself with good energy people, doing exercise, getting IC were all great healers.
Oh, and yes about the eyes. I think this is when they are in a state of disassociation. Actually, in my case, I know it is, as it is how my H looked during difficult visits with his parents. I have seen that dead-eyed look before, although in MLC, cranked up to 11 as it is underpinned with depression.
((((hugs, KD))))
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I feel so embarrassed and ashamed of myself. My STBXH had 0 reactions about the divorce and was ready to move forward. I wanted it but his lack of reaction has absolutely devastated me. I don't understand how all the love we had could go out the window so quickly for him. He knows I still love him. My emotions got the best of my and I called him and told him how badly he hurt me, how he could never rectify what he'd done or correct his flawed character. I feel in such a state of despair. I was at my sister's, now I'm back in my lonely house with his letter of response to me about the divorce with "truly wish you the best" at the bottom of the page. I wish he'd not even said that. I'm in such a low state I feel like I am the lowest I have ever felt mentally, that life will never be good or even okay again. That I will always feel this loneliness, sadness and that I have broken into a million pieces. I feel so ashamed for reaching out, for showing my emotions. I don't know what's wrong with me. I have therapy this week but may book a 2nd session. I don't even understand how I do life, how I continue to work and concentrate, how I find any happiness anywhere or in anything. How do I stop thinking about it all?
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Oh dear girl, I remember those times. It’s pretty awful isn’t it? And exhausting.
Three things that helped me in case any of them help you….
- today may have sucked but tomorrow you get to start afresh. And even if tomorrow sucks too, this time too will pass even if it feels like it won’t. Bc that’s how life works.
- please try to only beat yourself up if it is motivational. I found that I felt how I felt anyway even if I beat myself up for feeling that way it didn’t make it better. In fact, it just gave me two crappy sets of feelings rather than just one. And the one set of crappy feelings was quite enough to deal with.
- someone I trusted told me to end my day by writing down three things that were good or that I’d appreciated about that day. Didn’t matter how infinitesimally tiny they were..,.and they were minuscule when I started. In fact I often struggled to find three! But what I then noticed seemed to accidentally happen was that it began to balance out the truly horrific with bits of good stuff. And then I found myself strangely starting to almost look for good things so i’d have something for my nightly list. Feels a bit silly when you start but it came to feel like a little bit of brain-hacking magic. Tbh I still do it now years later before I fall asleep….i literally count three things that feel like blessings in some way. Todays? A lovely phone convo with an old friend. That my hair is looking nice. And that today was warm and sunny.
This time is awful, we know. Your job is to outlast it so you get to the other side of it. And you will. We know that bc we did, even though we also thought we wouldn’t. And you can borrow our faith in that and you until you can find it for yourself xxx
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Oh dear girl, I remember those times. It’s pretty awful isn’t it? And exhausting.
Three things that helped me in case any of them help you….
- today may have sucked but tomorrow you get to start afresh. And even if tomorrow sucks too, this time too will pass even if it feels like it won’t. Bc that’s how life works.
- please try to only beat yourself up if it is motivational. I found that I felt how I felt anyway even if I beat myself up for feeling that way it didn’t make it better. In fact, it just gave me two crappy sets of feelings rather than just one. And the one set of crappy feelings was quite enough to deal with.
- someone I trusted told me to end my day by writing down three things that were good or that I’d appreciated about that day. Didn’t matter how infinitesimally tiny they were..,.and they were minuscule when I started. In fact I often struggled to find three! But what I then noticed seemed to accidentally happen was that it began to balance out the truly horrific with bits of good stuff. And then I found myself strangely starting to almost look for good things so i’d have something for my nightly list. Feels a bit silly when you start but it came to feel like a little bit of brain-hacking magic. Tbh I still do it now years later before I fall asleep….i literally count three things that feel like blessings in some way. Todays? A lovely phone convo with an old friend. That my hair is looking nice. And that today was warm and sunny.
This time is awful, we know. Your job is to outlast it so you get to the other side of it. And you will. We know that bc we did, even though we also thought we wouldn’t. And you can borrow our faith in that and you until you can find it for yourself xxx
Thank you so much for your kind messages, Treasur. I feel slightly better now compared to earlier. I knew awaiting his response that it was going to be an emotionally-charged day, I just didn't anticipate how badly I would feel. Another user mentioned they sing a mantra every day and I had mentioned I may start journaling a mantra so adding the 3 highlights of the day would be perfect. I am so appreciative of all the kindness and support I have already received from this forum. And I am so sorry for my emotional post from earlier, I'm sure everyone here has their own cross to bear, especially if they are on this forum, so I am so grateful for all the kindness here. It has made me feel like I have people to talk to that understand this insanity and pain, as my sisters that haven't been through this -- and I pray they never go through it -- can only take so much of my malarkey and understand the confusion that comes with it. They have been my rocks though. :)
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Glad you are feeling a bit better. I suspect we've all gone up and down (and round and round) like a lawless yo-you in the beginning.
Try not to take anything your H says or writes at face value. They say a lot of things that are so bewildering and out of character. Yup, they also lie. Once they make a 'decision' they seem hellbent on pushing it through as fast as they can, before their brain can catch up with them. Your H's note was predictable alas. He thinks he is taking back control. Likely in his mind , he is the good guy, wishing you well. I have had similar cold messages. But the reality doesn't match the written word in my case. But still, I get it. It really hurts. Like - all this time of love together and this is all you have to say? Like I am a random colleague, moving to another job? If he is in crisis, then his inner turmoil is so great, he is furiously pushing down a lid on it all. Try all you can not to internalize this. Things will slowly become clearer to you as you move forward in healing.
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Burned bridge- no matter what……on here never apologize for your emotions and mental state. I was raw and true to everything I felt through my journey and I am so glad, because as you heal and you slowly will. It is good to look back and see where you were and that you were honest with yourself. The lack of reality the MLCer leaves us in is bad enough without us trying to delute our own true emotions.
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Thank you so much, MadLuv. Everyone on this site has been so wonderful and it feels like a safe haven away from it all.
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Quick Update:
H and I have had essentially no contact since the weekend except for a message I needed to send requesting he come get some things out of our rental and take our pet pigs (we have 2 rescue mini pigs ....I am going to miss them every day but their new outdoor area was set up at the house that he got). We had a bit of banter back and forth. For once it wasn't me crying or asking him what's wrong with him. I think he has been guarded talking to me because of that. Funnily enough, before this I never raised my voice, I can count on both hands, maybe even just one hand, the big arguments we have had over the last decade. Obviously the MLC is causing him to stay away from everyone except potentially the OW. I have no clue. I'm sure he's up her @$$ because he is an emotional wreck. During our back and forth before going I let him know "It's been nice talking to you" and he responded with "It's been nice talking to you 😊 really nice". Obviously at first I thought, wow, he's proposing to me a second time before I move forward with the divorce. ::) The things, words and insignificant actions you add value to in the midst of this madness.
I'm ready to be out of the rental and staying with my sister and her family. I'm a bit embarrassed moving in with my sister at 30 but, to be fair, I had just purchased a house....that I can no longer live in, and not by my choosing. My sister has been so sweet and understanding about it. I love being around her and my nephews, though with a few babies, dogs and adults in the house it does get a bit chaotic at times but it's a love-filled chaos. I have given myself a year to get everything in order to get myself a place of my own. My sister is happy with this and says she is happy for me to stay here for the rest of my life if I wanted. Super sweet but no, I have to get on with my life at some point and allow her to get on with hers. I realized I am probably going to need a weekend job on top of my full time job and just start saving out the wazoo so I am in a comfortable place once I move out.
I'm waiting for H to text me a time he will be here this weekend to move our piggie boys. After that, there isn't much I have to say to him and think it is my best interest to go no contact. I know he is going through something, the shark eyes, blatant disregard for his Mum's opinion of him (prior to this he would have never wanted to disappoint her but when he told her about the pills, I asked what her response was and he said "I dont know, I spoke over her so I didn't have to hear it"), driving ridiculously fast (has anyone seen this in their MLCer? The times I have been in the car with him since all this transpired, he has an almost dangerous lead foot, will get on people's tail end and will get road rage over the smallest of things ....I don't get it), his lack of empathy when he used to be the kindest person I know. He couldn't commit to me or give me an answer about what he wants because he doesn't know, he doesn't know who he is or what shows he likes oh and of course "not to be rude but I have gone from one relationship to the next so have felt almost like I have always had to answer to someone". That made me laugh as that is not my fault, him pursuing me right after a relationship....that was his boundary to set it to realize he needed time first AND he has always wore the metaphorical pants in the relationship. And right now, those pants are extremely skinny jeans.... Not a look for a man nearly 40. I'm telling you, he is determined to be an impersonator for one of the GreenDay band members.
I'm anxious about the no contact thing and yet relieved at the same time. I have also felt I've not been process everything. I've been constantly putting in a TV show or movie and I think it is just for avoidance purposes, so that I don't have to sit with the reality of it all. I need to sit with the reality of it all. So today I am not allowing myself any distractions with the exception of instrumental music, which is more to help with anxiety than anything.
I am scheduling the first initial consultation with the mediator for early September just for her to confirm we are a good fit for mediation. After that, I would imagine we would schedule the mediation.
Audio journaling/recording myself talk about how I'm feeling when I'm in a dark place + AI Therapist has been helping me through, alongside my actual weekly therapy appointments. For anyone interested in the AI therapist, it is free and it chats back to you like a therapist: https://www.freeaitherapist.com/
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...driving ridiculously fast (has anyone seen this in their MLCer? The times I have been in the car with him since all this transpired, he has an almost dangerous lead foot, will get on people's tail end and will get road rage over the smallest of things ....I don't get it)...
I forget when this was relative to bomb drop, but: There aren't many sidewalks in my neighborhood so people walk on the shoulder of the road. My XW was getting angry at pedestrians and cutting it a bit close to them (or at least not giving them any extra space like a normal person), so... Yes.
I imagine this is part of the "me Me ME" aspect of it all, and/or the frustration of whatever is going on in their heads.
JB
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driving ridiculously fast (has anyone seen this in their MLCer? The times I have been in the car with him since all this transpired, he has an almost dangerous lead foot, will get on people's tail end and will get road rage over the smallest of things ....I don't get it)
My ex-wife totaled our car from causing a multi-car pile-up during rush hour. I believe she was drunk while she did it but have no proof. That was a tad out of character.
his lack of empathy when he used to be the kindest person I know
I also described by ex-wife as the most compassionate person I had ever met. I used to use her as a role-model for patience and empathy. Unfortunately, I don't any longer.
Personally, no-contact was agonizing when I thought of it as a game of chicken but it became an oasis when I made the decision for me and my own healing. You sound very clear headed and determined to me. I imagine the emotions are roiling and at times you're under water, but your overall approach and mindset look really good from my vantage point.
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Oh wow, JB and Zarthwit, it's so strange that these people may be so different but have so many similarities during their MLC.
The mediator sent me details on the fees and retainer....and my goodness is all of this mess expensive. I really feel my H should be paying half of those fees and retainer with me as he is at fault for the divorce/breakdown of marriage. I don't really want to contact him, however. There is the option of just filing, it appears, but we do have assets between us so I feel I should go the route of getting assistance by a professional so that I get my fair share. Should I ask that my H split those fees? And if so, would a text suffice? Something short and simple like "I have forwarded you a breakdown of the mediation fees. We will need to split these so please let me know once you have your portion"?
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Oh wow, JB and Zarthwit, it's so strange that these people may be so different but have so many similarities during their MLC.
The mediator sent me details on the fees and retainer....and my goodness is all of this mess expensive. I really feel my H should be paying half of those fees and retainer with me as he is at fault for the divorce/breakdown of marriage. I don't really want to contact him, however. There is the option of just filing, it appears, but we do have assets between us so I feel I should go the route of getting assistance by a professional so that I get my fair share. Should I ask that my H split those fees? And if so, would a text suffice? Something short and simple like "I have forwarded you a breakdown of the mediation fees. We will need to split these so please let me know once you have your portion"?
Hi BB,
I am not sure whether this mediation is a mandatory step before divorce in your country or a despesrate try from your side to reconnect. I will assume it is the first case, because mediation or MC is in most cases NOT working in early phases of MLC.
So yes, it looks fair for me that you have to share the fees. Yes something short and simple sounds good to me.
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Thank you for your reply, FH. You mentioning a desperate attempt to reconnect actually made me really reflect and I do feel that was the reason behind it, if I am being really honest with myself. And yet, I also know the pain seeing him will cause me. I think it's in my best interest to not see him at all and try to complete the process from a distance. Thank you for checking me on that.
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I think this was a misinterpretation by FrenchHusband. This is mediation as in “a less contentious pathway to divorce “ rather than marriage counseling, correct?
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Forgot to mention: I think you can propose the fee splitting, but ultimately I think that would be part of the negotiations.
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Ah okay, that makes sense, JB. Even so, it made me reflect on my intentions for the mediation so I am thankful. 😊
We have pretty fairly split our assets and savings, and we just have our house and my name will be removed in 6 months after my STBXH shows proof of the mortgage coming out of a single not a joint account for 6 months. Sucks but....that is where he is living so I can't imagine he would just stop paying his mortgage.
I have decided to work with a company that does a pretty quick uncontested divorce because I just want closure and distance from him. I needed some personal details (SSN) so I reached out for those details and explained the mediation route was costly if we split it AND most importantly I didn't want contact with him in person or video for the mediation.
His response was, "I don't have that amount now (for mediation) but I can save it in a few months."
I let him know it seems unnecessary and I want to close the chapter and work with the company to start the process. "I don't want to go against either of our wishes, so let me know if you would prefer mediation but, for me, I would prefer this route."
His response was: "Ok we can file this way. It's just sad."
I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.... I feel like he wanted the mediation route to drag it out as he said he needed to save up a few months. Who would want to spend thousands of dollars when, if anything, he would be the one losing money in the mediation not winning anything? And the whole "it's just sad." remark... Then I let him know I would get it completed and we may get some documents mailed to us and thanked him for 10 good years and he responded with "Thank you for the best years. And I will forever be sorry".
This man caused all of this. I was in wedded bliss before and would have laughed if someone told me 2 months ago I would be divorcing him.
It's almost like some of these people are removed from reality or are confused why people want to leave the chaos they turn their world into, damaging their loved ones in the process. It's such a strange disconnect or glitch between empathy and apathy.
My sister pointed out she thinks it's just another manipulation tactic to pull me back in, to make me think he doesn't want this, and can continue cake-eating. 🍰 It's sad, the selfishness of it all.
I know I want to close this chapter even though I have a deep love for him that I don't think I will ever be able to remove, even with time. And as sad and broken as I know I will be when it's finalized, a part of me feels like I am going to feel a huge rush of relief alongside it.
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It's almost like some of these people are removed from reality or are confused why people want to leave the chaos they turn their world into, damaging their loved ones in the process. It's such a strange disconnect or glitch between empathy and apathy.
Yep... My ex-wife's definition of mediation was, "you give me everything I want, and the mediator signs off on it." She wanted half of everything (or maybe it was a third, because she was told a lawyer would get a third if we went that route), and wanted it in cash. Even though we were married less than five years, and I had assets from before we even met. "Uh, you have to get part of this as a 401k from my retirement plan." "I don't want a retirement plan, I want cash." Like I'm Scrooge McDuck bathing in a pool of gold doubloons and can just hand her a few sacks.
My ex got more than she was technically entitled to, but going to court would have risked more due to case law here. Now, at least I'm free and clear.
Hang in there...
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Not seen many examples here of mediation working well/easily with MLc-type spouses bc, well, MLC mindsets. So imho you would be wise to keep your expectations low, know the hills you are prepared to fight on/over that make sense and have a Plan B for what happens if mediation is a bust.
The law on mediation varies in different countries. Here in the UK the legal system strongly encourages it as a first choice but my lawyer - based on her experience of dealing with the initial nuttiness of my then h and her concern for my mental health - advised against it. My then h and me met separately with a court approved mediator who agreed with her judgement and signed off that mediation was not appropriate. So that meant lots of lawyers letters back and fro, with an option to go to court if there was no resolution. Took longer, probably cost more, but did save my sanity and kept me safe. When it came down to it, my then h - and presumably his soon to be owife - did not want to go to court so that enabled me to eventually get it over the line. But it was a process full of the normal MLC ‘you’re not the boss of me’, lies, dodgy financial stuff coming to light and lots of information foot dragging on his part. For the divorce apparently that he was ‘desperate’ to have and that I found previously inconceivable ::) But that seems to be a pretty common experience here sadly. Weird but common.
There was a book in the 70s that talked about the fantasy of a ‘zipless f**k’…..seems like most of these departing spouses have a fantasy of an equivalent ‘zipless’ divorce and are rather taken aback by the (entirely predictable) consequences that follow along with leaving your spouse this way. That can be head scratching but worth reminding yourself that it’s not your problem to solve. He think it’s ‘sad’? Or thinks it’s expensive? Not your circus - what he feels, thinks or expects stopped being your concern when he left, and I’m pretty confident that he has shown little or no concern about your opinions or the impact on your life or your finances or your feelings, right? I suspect you have quite enough of your own thoughts and feelings about it to deal with. Let him talk to other people about his and deal with them himself. That is one of the benefits that comes with limiting direct contact. Although if I remember rightly my former h put a lot of his sadz and rage into letters from his lawyer to mine lol, but she was a great filter.
Be as honest with yourself as you can be about what you are hoping to achieve. Recognise that you might have mixed agendas and some messy emotions about it. Accept the reality of what mediation is designed to do and what it is not. Then do whatever you feel will protect you best given the circumstances and with an eye to the longer term.
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Ah okay, that makes sense, JB. Even so, it made me reflect on my intentions for the mediation so I am thankful. 😊
His response was, "I don't have that amount now (for mediation) but I can save it in a few months."
[..]
I let him know it seems unnecessary and I want to close the chapter and work with the company to start the process. "I don't want to go against either of our wishes, so let me know if you would prefer mediation but, for me, I would prefer this route."
His response was: "Ok we can file this way. It's just sad."
As my mistake was helpful to you, I am glad I misunderstood ;D. On my thread you can read what results I got with mediation (https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12073.msg798737#msg798737) (July 2023). Even with all the good advices from the forum, the result was not positive (not negative). So, seeing the answers from your H to your proposal, IMHO a mediation would be only a waste of money.
What is mandatory to succeed with mediation is the good will of both people, and it seems there is no good will from your H.
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BB, I went the mediation route and did quite well for myself, partly because it all happened so quickly that xh was still in the deer win phase and partly because he chose an idiot for his lawyer and I chose someone who was well-known for getting women more than fair settlements. None of what my xh thought was going to happen for him actually did. He lost the house because he tried to pass off the appraisal from the very first year it was built, but my lawyer told me to get what was the current appraisal at that time, which was 16 years newer, so significantly more. Due to that fact alone, xh couldn't afford to buy my half out, so we were forced to sell. He wasn't clued into this until the day before mediation, so he had no time to secure other means of funding. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And, yes, it is sad that the choices they make haunt them in the end.
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Thank you beyond. I keep oscillating between just filing without any discussion about assets or mediation. I don't want to see him at mediation, that is what is really repelling me from it. At first I wanted mediation but I have had no contact and wish to continue that for my own healing and the thought of seeing him just doesn't feel worth it. However, I did help him pay for the deposit on our house which would give me a nice bit of money to start my savings account back up for my own place (currently living with family) but also it means communicating with him we need to split the mediation fees; which again I want no contact. I'm sort of stuck with that decision but will continue to mull it over.
I have been no contact for a bit now. My STBXH is blocked literally everywhere so not only can he not contact me, but I'm also not biting my fingernails down to the quick worrying that he's not contacting me. Two birds, one block button.
While I loved my husband, going no contact is really shedding light onto what he is. Before all this, I thought the world of him, he was a great man. I thought there's no way I could find a better human. But as this has marinated with me without him being around to influence my opinion, I'm seeing all the cracks in his foundation. He was that guy that always tried to be charming, like over the top so. It always felt a bit "try-hard" but now it's feeling very slimy. He also tended to try and get a reaction particularly from other women, not as concerned about men's response. ::) And also reiterates that there is something hollow in him to always put on a facade. He either thinks way too highly of himself or thinks way too lowly of himself - even though he was a absolute lint weasel to me, the latter is a sad thought. It makes me pity him, actually, because he used to be a decent fellow. I am also wondering if this has been going on before bomb drop....he cheated in a previous relationship before me, and it feels like this is a repeat behavior for him so I'm wondering if there has been others over this decade.
This no contact has also made me feel better about myself as well. I can do a hell of a lot without him *Cue Man, I Feel Like A Woman by Shania Twain* And I really enjoy my own company. I've been pretty productive, on days that I don't turn into a quivering puddle of self-wallowing. I've been a bit hard on myself at not turning things around quick enough, not improving myself quick enough but...it's been a month and a week since my relationship that lasted over a decade imploded so I think I should give myself more grace. But I have been feeling better and my BIL's mum (sisters husband) gave me great confident boosts with "oh he's f***** up losing you", "he was punching above his weight with you anyways". That really fluffed up my metaphorical peacock feathers. I'm certain one day he's going to be kicking himself - our relationship was like a decade of two young kids newly in love. Now he is with a woman that has a partner as well, with multiple kids from other men, when he didn't even want kids of his own. ;D I'm sure things are getting messy and I'm happy I quickly exited stage left.
As I'm continuing to work on myself, it is turning more into working on myself for me and my future. The thought of him seeing me and realizing he couldn't have me back even if he begged is just a bonus to the motivation.
I hope everyone else is doing well!
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Just a note on the patronizing “truly wish you well” and how that felt devastating- don’t listen to that nonsense they say. They forget how to be empathetic humans and they kind of just parrot what they think they should feel or say. A day or so before I was leaving my H and he knew I was going to file to end the marriage he said to me, “I will miss a FEW things about you” In a way that he thought was reassuring and a compliment. A few things??!! After 15 years and two kids???! You will miss a few things. Nice.
I don’t think anything they say means anything when they are in this state. Mine had black eyes too at the beginning- now it’s not exactly like that but he cycles and is all over the place- keep taking a step back and brace yourself for that too. Well done for blocking! Took me 10 months to be able to do that.
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Fwiw I think you should take legal advice before reaching a decision. There are times in life when it’s wise to borrow a bit of someone else’s brain and imho this is one bc of the longer term consequences of your choice for your own financial future perhaps. It sounds as if the main thing that needs to be agreed is him buying you out of the house? Anything else?
I can understand your reticence about contacting him directly and about the pros and cons of mediation. What I don’t know is how the legal options work where you live.
I was struck by what you described as a ‘decade of two kids in love’ from your pov. You were a very young adult when your relationship started, but of course he was not, being a decade older. Or technically not anyway. And that he has been unfaithful before you, now unfaithful to you. And he is abusing prescription drugs. This doesn’t sound like a great catch, does it? You are a young woman still, yet he sounds rather more like a Peter Pan type who has somehow not grown up. (Maybe ow is a de facto replacement ‘mummy’, someone to ‘take care of him’? Idk if that was your role before despite your age differences)
I am twice your age and have to say that Peter Pan types can make appealing boyfriends, even romantic perhaps, but rarely good husbands. Or fathers. Bc those more weighty roles require a bit more adulting especially when life inevitably throws us some tough stuff. And if he is this type, you are not the only LBS here to realise that this was a goodly part of their spouse’s make up.
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Fwiw I think you should take legal advice before reaching a decision. There are times in life when it’s wise to borrow a bit of someone else’s brain and imho this is one bc of the longer term consequences of your choice for your own financial future perhaps. It sounds as if the main thing that needs to be agreed is him buying you out of the house? Anything else?
I can understand your reticence about contacting him directly and about the pros and cons of mediation. What I don’t know is how the legal options work where you live.
I was struck by what you described as a ‘decade of two kids in love’ from your pov. You were a very young adult when your relationship started, but of course he was not, being a decade older. Or technically not anyway. And that he has been unfaithful before you, now unfaithful to you. And he is abusing prescription drugs. This doesn’t sound like a great catch, does it? You are a young woman still, yet he sounds rather more like a Peter Pan type who has somehow not grown up. (Maybe ow is a de facto replacement ‘mummy’, someone to ‘take care of him’? Idk if that was your role before despite your age differences)
I am twice your age and have to say that Peter Pan types can make appealing boyfriends, even romantic perhaps, but rarely good husbands. Or fathers. Bc those more weighty roles require a bit more adulting especially when life inevitably throws us some tough stuff. And if he is this type, you are not the only LBS here to realise that this was a goodly part of their spouse’s make up.
Thank you for your response, Treasur! Yeah, it is just the house and technically we had JUST closed on it a month before everything blew up. I've not gotten to spend a single night in there :'( but I found all the quirky, unique furniture that we've furnished it with. I've done all the decorating... So I'm sure whomever he takes into that house is going to think he has such wonderful taste which is a total crock. ::) So basically, it is just the deposit that would need splitting as the first few mortgage payments he has now taken on. We did also have a gorgeous new fence installed for 10K. Not sure if I would get any of that, but I know it definitely increases property value. Those are the things making me wonder if I should go the mediation route but no contact has been a god send for my healing so I'm trying weigh up the value of my sanity and healing to what I would gain. I can pay a small fee for an initial consultation with the mediator, maybe doing that is the best option as it would just be her and I discussing if we would be a right fit for mediation anyways. I could always make a decision from there about it.
Yeah, I don't know what has happened to him. If anything, he has always been more of the caregiving type but now he has just thrown all of his values to the wind. The him he has been over the past few months absolutely does not sound like a catch. He seems like a 21 year old that is still partying as if they're in high-school, sleeping around, with no direction in his life or care. And he seems pretty miserable and depressed. That wouldn't have bothered me as ai tried to be as supportive as I could emotionally, even allowing him to tell me more about what he needed that the other woman helped him with to try and understand, which was painful for me of course. But he kept pushing me away. It is funny you mention looking for a replacement mummy... The other woman has kids and probably does have more of a maternal side to her, definitely more than me as I don't have kids or much of a maternal side to me. He is acting like a child and his mum has ALWAYS coddled him, which is partially the reason he is how he is. She never held him accountable for anything.
Whenever I get back out there -- and it will be a while, I was thinking of giving myself a year at least -- I will definitely be looking for people that do not have similar traits to him, the people pleaser avoidant types that always need attention.
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I feel in a really good place at the moment. I cleared out the majority of our rental, which he didn't really bother helping with ::), and feel super empowered by it. I have a little shed to disassemble over the weekend and yardwork to do before leaving but I really enjoy doing this type of work. It makes me realize I am perfectly capable at...life.
I have this big goal that I am keeping in mind, a solo RV trip to the Grand Canyon with my pups. I intend to go next year and want to stop at different spots on the way there and back, to spend time on my own and get away from everything, and to do something to look back on and be proud of. Whenever I start to feel down, I start thinking about my trip and different places to stop.
My sister told me about a friend's STBXH today. We all sort of grew up with him, he has the same girlfriend since high school that became his wife. They had a few kids together and the most recent baby they had 2 years ago, he seemed to spiral afterwards. It honestly sounds like an MLC to me, but maybe I'm just seeing that everywhere because it applies to my current situation. This guy started spiraling: cheating, drinking, called her one time from the parking lot of a movie theater with a gun saying he was going to harm himself, is struggling to pass court-ordered drug tests, apparently has been blasted on Facebook for being with a ton of women. He wasn't like that from what I remember. He truly loved his partner and seemed like a fairly normal guy. It's so strange things went downhill after the birth of a child - which I saw can be one of the prominent life changes that can trigger midlife crisis or transitional crisis. She's divorcing him as it's been 2 years of pure chaos for her and her kids. Apparently she is now with a lovely guy and her STBXH is furious about her moving on. ::)
This got me to thinking.... it's so strange when these people discard you then have the audacity to care when you move on or find someone that will care for you. During the whole fallout with my H, we were separated for a few weeks before divorce was decided upon, and during that time we did come together a few times and talked about things, did some normal "couple things" that I now regret doing... And during that time I did mention to him -- because I am a very forthright person with him -- that a part of me was excited at the thought of dating again (now looking back, I was at the time missing the way he loved me and romanticized the thought of that and finding similar with someone else). This upset him! I couldn't believe it, he was bothered I was excited at the ideal of dating when HE chose to blow up our marriage and cheat with a coworker, who he was still messing around with at the time. The audacity of some of these people blows my mind. He kept bringing up, "those men you were so excited to talk to", quite a few times during those weeks at random moments. Mind you, I never communicated with anyone besides him, family and friends during that time. ;D He also asked why I bought a new style of cute undergarments because "you've never wore that style before so why are you suddenly wearing them?" so suspicious of me and what I was doing. And another time "it really hurt me the thought you want to date other people but I guess I deserve to hurt". These MLCers, or even just some cheaters in general, live in a weird, strange world where they are the stars of the show and everyone around them are backing actors just there to make them look good. If anyone steps off mark they are so shocked. Such goofballs. :o
But....I'm feeling good. I feel like good things are ahead if I keep moving forward.
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Fwiw I think you should take legal advice before reaching a decision. There are times in life when it’s wise to borrow a bit of someone else’s brain and imho this is one bc of the longer term consequences of your choice for your own financial future perhaps. It sounds as if the main thing that needs to be agreed is him buying you out of the house? Anything else?
I agree with this wholeheartedly. You don't have to contact him (your lawyer and his lawyer have contact). Don't throw away money for the current pain. I also went no contact--for a time--and it helped me tremendously. But I still kept moving the paperwork through the system so I got my fair share and I'm glad I did.
I got a system down where I would do some paperwork and then go for a walk, run, meet friends for lunch, etc to work through the pain. I managed my schedule so there was something that helped me survive and heal after each paperwork duty.
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Re the whole underwear/dating stuff….i suspect you are learning - and imho reduced contact helps with this bc it’s a hell of an adjustment - that sharing info (intentionally or otherwise) is pretty futile and often adds to the mindf••k. Futile bc we communicate (and all communication is essentially a kind of ‘bid’ like in cards) bc we assume a certain kind of response. And in these situations, what we receive is rarely what we were ‘bidding’ for, is it?
At a simple level tbh, these folks have now proven that they do not have positive constructive intent towards us and so can’t really be trusted with much information about us any longer. One might not understand why but eventually one can see the what, I think. Either they don’t care (when we think they should) or they make it about them (when it isn’t) or they respond inconsistently (which psychologically keeps us hooked on a system of unpredictable rewards) or they weaponise it (using info to feed either a blaming narrative or a legal process).
Safer and saner imho to share nothing or very little of significance with them - and find other more predictable humans with good intent to share with rather than people with such a skewed lens. But after often decades of more normal communication with that person, it takes most of us a bit of time and a bit of trial and error to see that and behave differently.
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Thank you, Reinventing and Treasur!
I feel that completely, Treasur, that I can't trust him with anything. I feel like I could trust a stranger more than him. I have remained no contact, he's blocked everywhere and this week I blocked his family members from my Facebook as well. I want them completely blocked from my life which is sad because a big part of me loves him for who he was before all this. That man, who he was before all this, was an incredible person. I'm sad, not for me as much now, but for him that he is no longer that person because of all this. If he ever comes out of MLC, however long that takes, I think he will struggle to ever forgive himself or love himself. Before all this, kindness, caring about others and trying to be a good human were huge to him. He was always worried about seeming like a bad person. I'm so sad for him that he has become what he never wanted to be.
Journaling:
Ive been no contact except an email I had to send informing of a document he can expect. It was robotic. No 'hi' or 'thanks' just laying out the facts in as few, emotionless words as possible. It's so strange, like night and day because we used to share everything and never shied away from being emotional or anything like that. Our conversations were almost always lighthearted and playful but serious when necessary. It's just never how we spoke to each other. But I need him to know I want nothing to do with him outside of the logistics of our divorce and moving house. He has shown he is able to destroy me so easily with so little remorse. I could never associate with someone like that, purely from an emotional survival instinct point of view. He feels like an enemy almost, like the one person that has seriously wounded me. It's such a strange juxtaposition to the love that I know I will always carry for that man; at least for who he used to be.
Last night was the last night of moving things from my rental. Woohoooo! I'm done! My sister took me and we packed up the car and while we were there my H pulled up to the turn in to the cul-de-sac. He just sat there for 5-10 minutes then turned around. I took a few boxes in and out in that time he was sat there just looking at our driveway/where I and my sister were. It was odd. I did tell him weeks ago that a lockbox would be on the door and for him to drop off his key in it. That may have been why but the just sitting there watching was so odd. I feel like I would have just drove on by and come back later if the tables were turned, not just sit there. I think he may have been debating just trying to drop his key off, though the lockbox wasn't on the door yet, so he could wash his hands of it but also not wanting to come face-to-face with me, his personification of shame and guilt. So odd. He's such an avoidant. I'm the last person he could face right now, I think.
It makes me feel like he's a coward. I know MLCers are not always in the best frame of mind. But if I hurt him how he hurt me, I would still face him. It would feel even more disrespectful to him for me not to face him, and run away. And that's exactly what he does. To be fair, I didn't want to see him. I was bothered he was even sat there. Almost embarrassed and wanted to hide in the car or house but I had to move boxes. :-[
I was a bit sad after. Not sure why. I haven't seen him in person in over a month now and while I couldn't see him as he was in the car, it was still odd, feeling so close to him. It left me with a range of emotions of missing him, embarrassment, wanting nothing to do with him, and resenting what he's done to us and that we will never get that back.
One positive is I am done with the rental house! I just have to wait for the lockbox to drop my keys off. I have been working on getting things there for weeks, pretty much since I decided to move forward with the divorce, so being done gives me such peace of mind and means I can relax for a few weeks and just focus on work, school and family while I let myself take some time away. Ever since bomb drop, it has felt like go, go, go.
Regarding the whole GAL thing - I went to a drag show this weekend! It was so much fun. I went with my sister and her MIL. I never dance in public but I was dancing. Maybe to the horror of those around me but we can't all be Charlie Chaplins can we? I also have concert tickets for October that I bought for myself and my sisters. Super exciting.
For my living situation, I'm living with my sister while I work to get back on my feet. I have had the security of a 2-income household and a home I partially owned ripped out from under me, plus the financial losses that will be happening while processing the divorce and mediation. It's a struggle at first for sure. I am saving for the next year, as my sister has so kindly let me stay with her. After that, I was going to get an apartment but the idea of an RV and having financial freedom at 30, besides paying for my lot at a long-term stay RV park along with necessities is super exciting to me from a financial standpoint. I would not only be able to save much more than if I were in an apartment but it gives me a chance to see where I want to go in life, maybe I want to live somewhere else entirely which it allows. Freedom.....that is one benefit of all this. I get to make all my decisions. My H would have never been up for living in an RV. EVER! He is about comfort, convenience and when it comes to his family, their impression of him and if he's successful or has nice things. ::) I've already been researching full-time RV living and finding work arounds, such as solar panel kits for added electric. My big goal next year was a solo RV trip to the Grand Canyon and back, with a lot of stops along the way. It will be a good time to test out the waters and see how it feels living that way with my pups.
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It makes me feel like he's a coward. I know MLCers are not always in the best frame of mind. But if I hurt him how he hurt me, I would still face him. It would feel even more disrespectful to him for me not to face him, and run away. And that's exactly what he does. To be fair, I didn't want to see him. I was bothered he was even sat there. Almost embarrassed and wanted to hide in the car or house but I had to move boxes. :-[
I completely get this. I had a discussion with my therapist about feeling that my H is weak. She mulled it over for a while (well, actually she winced a bit - obviously didn't quite agree :) ) She said it was more accurate to say he was an extremely confused man in complete turmoil. Maybe both is true. And I do believe that the crisis person suffers a lot, but it does not excuse the behviour IMO. I certainly waft between compassion and anger on this one. Less so now, as I inch towards full acceptance. If you think about this situation, with your H - would you even need to face him? Because would you have done this in the first place? I think we all get to a point when we see, with clearer eyes, just how extreme the crisis behaviour is. It's brutal. And, as is so often repeated here, there's no real making sense of it.
You sound good BB - an RV and the open road? Sounds like an adventure. Do make sure you give yourself enough time with big decisions. MLC can throw us into our own sort of crisis.
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I just want to add on you giving yourself grace on it being only a month or so. That is incredibly short period of time. It took me 2 years to really feel like a human and almost 3 for anxiety to ease. Now, I had 30 years and a death of a child in the mix of all this and so I really could not understand how he could pile more on my pain. Just know that you heal when you feel all the emotions and all the pain. So, if you do feel leas than strong in moments, days or weeks, well that is ok. This is a terrible trauma. Your doing better than I at the beginning. If I could have stayed in a curled position in a dark corner I would have.
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Oh my goodness, I'm so, so sorry to hear about the passing of your child, MadLuv. I can't imagine going through something like that and MLC. You must be incredibly strong. How are things going for you currently? Do you feel you're in a good spot healing-wise?
That curled in a ball in a dark corner thing...that's been me the past few days. I'm struggling to function. I'm staying with family but I keep isolating myself because it feels safer on my own. I'm struggling so much. I've been no contact, we will be paying for mediation in a few weeks and get the ball rolling there. I don't intend to be with him. He hurt me in ways I never thought him capable, and so callously as well.
The why is really getting to me lately. I don't understand why he did this. I thought I was a good wife. I was encouraging, loving, we always had fun and excitement together, we were affectionate. I encouraged and supported his career, going back to school. He was having bad health symptoms for over a decade, many doctors dismissed him but I researched and pushed a Celiac's test on him. Turned out it was Celiac's and then I made out house fully gluten-free from that point and his symptoms stopped. I encouraged him to strengthen relationships with his family members, I always was the one to find and order gifts for their holidays and birthdays. I rarely ever nagged. We rarely fought. We had been focusing just on the goal to get our house purchased so we were saving and not going out a ton to save, so not a ton of excitement with regards to going out.
I ate healthy to try and stay lean for health purposes and to look nice for both myself and for him. I was almost always in a positive, upbeat mood as that's just my general nature. Always dressed nice. I would surprise him with things, made delicious gluten-free meals for him. I was very close with his family, they all loved me and mine loved him. We both wanted the same things out of life. We have both been told by people that he's "punching above his weight" with me/I'm out of his league. I never saw it like that of course. We seemed so happy. We just got our house. I just can't comprehend it.
I don't know what I was missing to cause this. I don't even know if it is a midlife crisis, and if it is I keep reading that they feel trapped or unhappy with their life choices, so even if it is it an MLC and not just an exit affair, it comes back to me being a horrible choice he made. That stings so much. I don't understand it. I wasn't the perfect partner but I tried. I don't intend to date anytime soon but whenever that time comes, a year or two down the line, I'm worried I will never be enough for someone. I'm struggling so much with the "why"s today.
Does an MLC happen in really happy marriages? It seems it, based on a stories I've read on here, but why do we become the issue suddenly? How are there many couples that live through this period in their life without a midlife crisis or without their relationship dissolving from an MLC?
I am an absolute wreck today. :-\
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BB,
Sorry you are where you are right now. I'm approaching the 1 year mark as we speak. I will say honestly that from most of what I have seen it tends to happen after traumatic events and with with others it happens when they achieved everything they thought they wanted in life.
You sound like you were overly great to your husband. I don't think anyone could have really asked for more. It's one thing that I have struggled with for the past few months. I've come to learn there is nothing that we did to cause it and it's their journey. Hard pill I had to swallow. I lived for my wife and family and it feels like a gut punch. Prayer and Hearts blessings site has really helped me.
God bless you on your journey. We all feel your pain.
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Well, yes, plenty of us here genuinely believed - and experienced - what we thought were better than average marriages, sometimes for decades. And were just as confounded as you. (You can judge for yourself based on our posts if you think we are horrible people or delusional fantasists lol)
Nas posted a link on the Links thread you may find helpful, about the utility of acting the opposite to how we feel at a given moment. It sounds as if you are hiding a bit? Do you know why? Or what you are scared about? I’d encourage you to not hide quite so much….even small normal interactions with other nice humans can be rather healing.
And when you have a spare bit of headspace, you might want to look at this and reverse it. How much or how little or how similar or how different did your h (pre BD) treat you from how you treated him? Any conclusions are for you, no need to share them here unless it’s helpful, but sometimes part of un-confounding ourselves is to look through a slightly different lens, to pick through the bits that feel real and perhaps the bits that we paid less attention to. To get a sense of the refrain of our marriage underneath the melody perhaps.
What do you think his para would have been about how he was a ‘good husband’?
I thought I was a good wife. I was encouraging, loving, we always had fun and excitement together, we were affectionate. I encouraged and supported his career, going back to school. He was having bad health symptoms for over a decade, many doctors dismissed him but I researched and pushed a Celiac's test on him. Turned out it was Celiac's and then I made out house fully gluten-free from that point and his symptoms stopped. I encouraged him to strengthen relationships with his family members, I always was the one to find and order gifts for their holidays and birthdays. I rarely ever nagged. We rarely fought. We had been focusing just on the goal to get our house purchased so we were saving and not going out a ton to save, so not a ton of excitement with regards to going out.
I ate healthy to try and stay lean for health purposes and to look nice for both myself and for him. I was almost always in a positive, upbeat mood as that's just my general nature. Always dressed nice. I would surprise him with things, made delicious gluten-free meals for him. I was very close with his family, they all loved me and mine loved him. We both wanted the same things out of life. We have both been told by people that he's "punching above his weight" with me/I'm out of his league. I never saw it like that of course. We seemed so happy. We just got our house. I just can't comprehend it.
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First and foremost, trying to "understand" why an MLC'er does what they do to the people they supposedly love is....
Like trying to taste green ....with your elbow....
Simply not possible...... and, in the grand scheme of things, a waste of time. We don't know why they do what they do. I am not sure that they themselves really know most of the time. They feel "driven" to do "something" to make themselves feel better (meaning to acquire affirmation and recognition from other external sources) rather than acknowledging their own right to be happy simply by virtue of their existence. They are so used to getting their "warm and fuzzies" from outside themselves because, inside, they are a hollow empty shell ....
Second, I think that a lot of us would have described our marriages as solid. Even if there were troubles, most of us had worked through them with our spouse before they went off into Schmoopie-land. Many of us are or were "fixers" in that we would read the needs of our spouse form their mannerisms, their reactions, their attitudes and take action on those queues before our spouse would even have to express their desires or problems.... That is why this often comes as such a shock to most of us.
UM
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My name is KayDee and I am a recovering Fixer.
I could have written much of what you wrote about the things I did for my H. All in my stride, not thinking too hard about it. The thing is, IMO, people who hit this type of crisis missed a big ol chunk of maturation. And because many of us got together with our spouses at a pretty young age, we didn't notice, not like we would now, if we met a new person with this type of deficit. Many of us met our spouses not long after leaving our childhood homes and kind of segued into certain roles. I am not the mothering type, but I (used) to be the Go To Girl. I look back on my marriage and see that I made pretty much all the decisions. I was the coper of the outfit. Now I know that wasn't so healthy. It takes two to create that dynamic, of course. In my case, I think it led to some resentment from my H. He was reliant on me. Then things from FOO caught up with him and he couldn't cope. I wasn't able to cope with it either - his needs outstripped my capacity. In his mind I was abandoning him. Not true of course, and not the whole picture, but in one way or another he went looking for other external validations and 'love'. The hole that the crisis person has inside cannot be filled by anyone. They need to learn this to heal.
For me, although I don't think his crisis was my fault, I do need to own my over-fixingness. In hindsight, I did not help him grow up. This is something I am working on. NO. MORE. FIXING.
And yes, we had a great marriage and friendship too. Until the pressure became too much and the fault lines caused the collapse. Absolutely all our mutual friends and (my) side of the family were completely floored by what happened. A couple of friends even cried. So I believe you 100% (as will probably everyone on this Forum) that you had a good marriage. And you will likely come to peace with that too. It was not your fault, he was likely always going to implode at some point because he didn't acquire the resilience needed for hard times. He probably got this far in life, with happiness and contentment, because he had you as a partner. He will learn, sooner of later, what he has lost. You will learn your high value and independence. It takes time though...
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For me I think it comes down to a person that never had a self identity and for most are avoidant. I also felt I went above and beyond as a wife, but I was a nagger because he was very hard to communicate with. We had reached most goals people dream of, but he was always needing the next thing. Something to be excited about. So, I just dont think no matter what the reason, family origin, past relationships, blah blah blah…. It just is going to happen.
On your isolating at times. I did that for sure. I know it’s not advisable, but I just couldn’t clear my head at times and unlike the MLCer I could not put on a mask when in deep distress and I did not want to be judged. When you can then push yourself to get out and socialize. What I found that helped me was to create new connections and experiences so I had something to talk about. If you dont you get stuck in the past. People are talking about their lives and you have nothing to contribute except what has happened and EVERYONE gets sick of hearing it.
4 years from BD2 I still question why, but not why did he do this to me, but how does someone not recognize they need help and get it. Why does a person choose to blow up their lives rather than deal with things. When I asked my XH to see a therapist after BD1 he said, I can’t talk about it. I said, well then you have to move out and if you leave then we will have to divorce. He said, then we have to divorce. HE DOESNT WANT TO LOOK AT HIMSELF. This past may his attorney told him they could go to court and lower alimony and he said, No, I dont want to deal with it. Nothing has changed.
So, just know that it doesn’t matter why, when or how. It’s not about you. Yiur just paying the price for a man that wont deal with himself.
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More and more I’m starting to realize that the questions I asked after BD were not exclusive to this extraordinary situation. The truth is that we never know why anyone does anything and most of the time the reasons we think people are doing things (little things and huge things) are stories we’ve told ourselves. I don’t think that most people feeling this level of inner turmoil think “I need to get help.” Rather than thinking they need help, they absolutely believe that something needs to happen to make them feel better. So instead of them not wanting to look at themselves, they don’t know they need to. It’s a foreign concept to them, the thought wouldn’t even enter their mind. They’ve gone through life the way almost everyone does, collecting stories that have explained all the things that have happened in their lives and then using those stories as the basis for the bigger story of why they are the victim, why they need to run, why they deserve to be selfish blah blah blah. Not a lot of people stop and question their stories, and that’s not just people in crisis. But I think that does explain why it takes them so long to ever stop looking for an external fix.
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I was the coper of the outfit. Now I know that wasn't so healthy. It takes two to create that dynamic, of course. In my case, I think it led to some resentment from my H. He was reliant on me. Then things from FOO caught up with him and he couldn't cope. I wasn't able to cope with it either - his needs outstripped my capacity. In his mind I was abandoning him.
Dang, could have pretty much written that word for word lol.
I wasn’t a maternal type of fixer, saw those bear traps lol and have too much respect for other peoples agency plus a set of principles from my professional life, but I was a great coper and creator of good things and facilitator of nice stuff. My family were the same and I think my xh found that a kind of life scaffolding which made him feel good….until it didn’t. He was not a bad person but he was not a strong one or a reliable coper. Everyone who loved him then knew that, we just loved him as he was regardless bc, hey, no one is perfect, are they? 😜
He emotionally and practically delegated things he preferred to avoid, I think. Not openly but passively. I would guess he has transferred that to his second wife/family unless he has got a bit tougher and a bit more honest with himself about why he is/was who he is and if he likes that man. Maybe that was even a smart choice for him bc tbh all the post BD stuff changed me so much that I could not have gone back to being the same kind of scaffolding 😝
It was my instinct too at the time that some of his rage and contempt for me, consciously or not, was bc some bit of him resented some of that and felt angry in a way that I had ultimately failed as life scaffolding. Not fair, not reasonable and not my job, of course, but that was my instinct bc the rage and contempt was about something and came from somewhere. And that was the closest I could get to guessing at it.
I read somewhere else - and it made sense to me - that these folks are like china tea cups with an invisible hairline crack. You can drink tea out of them for years and then one day, your pour the tea in and the cup just cracks apart……
I agree with Nas too that some of how our lens changes applies to lots of situations in life not just our ex/spouse. I have a friend who - for reasons I partly understand - is very passive in our friendship. Hardly ever initiates, invites me to do anything or reaches out to make contact first. We last saw each other in April and I said to her then that it wasn’t working so well for me, that my door was open but I would leave it up to her to decide if/when she wanted to see me. Since then? Nothing. Much easier for the post BD me to accept that her actions are a simple message and that, for whatever reason, she evidently doesn’t see our friendship as important enough to invest in like that right now. And that’s ok. I have no bad feelings about it and I am not taking it personally. And not my ‘problem’ (if it even is one) to mind read or solve or fix bc my friend is an adult who can use her words or text fingers if she wishes. 😝
I choose to use my coper bits for other things and other folks who meet me a bit closer to the middle….