Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: zinger on June 08, 2011, 09:48:52 AM
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I am wondering about what constitutes a successfuil journey through an mlc for an mlcer. How much awareness does one have to gain of the real issues that led them to mlc ( as opposed to bs like "my wife doesn't like to exercise outdoors--one of the justifications my ulcer had for why he wanted to leave :o) Do they need to realize and make peace with childhood losses, etc on a conscious level or does the "journey" happen largely on a sub or unconscious level?
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Mmmm, good question zinger, because if H and I ever reconcile, or at least become friends, I will be interested to know his take on his MLC statement, "sometimes you do dishes in the sink and we have a dishwasher" as one of the irritating traits he could no longer bear to live with and which drove him into the arms of OW... ???
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Do they need to realize and make peace with childhood losses, etc on a conscious level or does the "journey" happen largely on a sub or unconscious level?
Some of the processing they do is conscious; and some of it is unconscious. Yes, they do need to realize, resolve, and make peace with their childhood issues/losses, and the aspects of these in order to come out successfully.
I'm digging my memory; but when I dealt with my transition; there was a great deal of activity that went on inside of me; issues crying out to be heard and seen. At times, there was a literal chorus of people clamoring in my head; these were the children of my issues; and as each one was faced and resolved; they reintegrated back into my psyche never to be seen again...and that was another step forward for me.
Some of the issues came out; and were vocalized; a child spoke to my husband at one point while I looked on; some of the children spoke to other people who were there helping me through my transition.
My husband's children spoke to me, also, during his crisis. It was interesting to deal with the children; they told me and our son things in innocent ways; and one really made me smile; he was 4 years old, loved peanut butter on his pancakes; and got the most joy out of simple things.
In me, there were sad children, angry children, indifferent children...there were some happy children there; but few...I had alot of issues to deal with; but I never ran from any of them; although, it was so painful; and I didn't want to be in that place..yet, I had to be; because I needed to come through completely whole...and I did, although it took me six years to navigate it all and finish.
I had a constant "home movie", if you will running through my head; and events were as real, as if I had lived them the day before; I don't think it was any different for my husband.....these "movies" tormented him and me in our respective journeys.
The things they showed were very painful; and there was a real pain within that I could never get away from...it didn't completely go away until ALL my issues were faced; and I'm sure it was the same for him. In many ways, he had more painful issues than me; and we each had to face the aspects that came with the issues to complete the processing within each of us.
It's a mixed bag in how each person navigates through their crisis/transition; and there's no real set way they will accomplish this task, but they must be willing; whether then, or later to face everything in full; and resolve every bit of it...as ALL must be faced; either way they choose to face it; before exiting out of the crisis.
You've got many who will face in various ways; as they have the strength to let a little more in to process; most in bits and pieces; and this takes time.
During the crisis; they do relive their lives from the first and the hardest issue they remember; and that's also why, at times, they will look at the LBS; and will NOT know who they are; it's simply because they are "living" in a time BEFORE they knew the LBS. I saw this happen with my husband; he didn't know me at times; and at others; he seemed to have lost track of his sense of time and space. He would say the oddest things; such as asking me what my name was again; and why was I here with him? He really didn't know me.
It's all complicated, because this is truly an emotional and spiritual battle they face; and they are damaged, wounded; and these must be healed within themselves. While we can influence them; we cannot fix them; therefore, we need to let them go to deal with themselves....because, if they can't learn to deal with themselves; they will not be able to deal with other people; even the spouse they've left behind during this journey.
It's similar to the journey the LBS takes to wholeness and healing; and the SAME lessons are learned by both people; the only difference is, the MLC'er takes the long way around; making some very serious mistakes that can hold up their processing/facing/resolving.
I hope this helps. :)
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Thanks so much HB--I appreciate your insight. I guess I'm am having my own crisis--a crisis of faith that my H will ever consicously "do the work" when he seems to be having such a good time running. Unlike other MLCers, my H has stayed very present in my girls lives, seeing them more now then he probably did before. He has his OW who seems to make him "happy" and he still has his job that he loves. I am certain he is in MLC, and I know this is replay but it seems like plenty of people marry the OW and live "happily" ever after--do these folks do the work and remain with the OW? If someone stays with the OW have they necessarily not successfully made it through?
It seems like there would be no incentive for him to do the conscious work of dealing with his childhood losses when things seem so good for him now. That's why I wonder if there are processes at work "below the surface"-- working there way through his pscyhe. And then I guess I wonder what the incentive is to stop blaming the LBS for the demise of the marriage even if they have some awareness of their unresolved issues.
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I can certainly understand the worry that they won't do the work to get out of MLC. My h married his OW and certainly I watch anxiously for signs of trouble. Or will he be worn out and stall over there.
Only time will tell.
I certainly hope there is some subconscious work going on in his mind.
Butterfly
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Hello Zinger,
For one thing; whether he navigates through MLC or not; is up to HIM; and there's nothing you can do to help any of it along. He has to reach certain mileposts, on his own, or not. MLC is a crapshoot, a gamble; and not everyone comes through...you take a chance when you stand for the marriage. Yet, time, is what you have to work with; and time is what you have to deal with yourself while he's off in the MLC fog.
For another; once some of the MLC'ers get divorced; the pressure to run, generally lifts from them; and some realize that the LBS is NOT the cause of the problem, simply because the pain doesn't leave them...it continues; and most continue to run from it; trying other avenues just to get away from it...but it doesn't go away; if anything, it gets more insistent; and that can lead to heavy anger within..that will also lead to heavy spewing against the LBS; which is part of their cycling..at least until they realize within themselves that they must look within. No guarantees they will; but that's something you always hope for.
Recognizing the problem is within the MLC'er is the first step to learning NOT to take it personally; just because they say it; doesn't make it the truth; and the truth is within the heart of the LBS; who KNOWS that what the MLC'er is spewing is mostly lies; with a little truth mixed in.
I am certain he is in MLC, and I know this is replay but it seems like plenty of people marry the OW and live "happily" ever after--do these folks do the work and remain with the OW? If someone stays with the OW have they necessarily not successfully made it through?
Well, there's a situation I'm observing at this time; where a man went on and married his OW; the relationship itself resembles a teenage type relationship..both are still in deep Replay; judging from their dress, and way of interacting with each other. This is all teenage behavior on both parts.
On the other hand; he's dropped some comments to me lately indicating that he's trying to move forward; he says he's trying to make "better decisions"; whatever that is supposed to mean to him. He knows that I know what he's facing...and he's been in this for over 10 years now. His wife(OW), is still trying to bypass his behavior; by telling him to take his ranting(well, I can't say exactly what she said) to my husband; and pour it on him. :)
He and my husband were once best friends; but considering where my husband is, compared to that other man; that friendship is pretty much broken; and they don't have much in common anymore...they are at two different stages of life as it stands, now. My husband is there for him; but he's said, many times, that he doesn't understand him. Since my husband doesn't remember his crisis; he wouldn't understand, but I do; and I've explained some of it to him; but it makes NO sense to him; and it shouldn't...he's finished with it; and has gone through the "forgetting" process; where it means nothing to him, now.
This man is still dishing out emotional damage to his ex wife; they have two children that are grown now; and a couple of grandchildren; and there is always a scrap going on between the two households over one thing or the other. They try, sometimes to carry it over to our house; and we won't get involved; and have made it clear that we don't want to hear it. But, sometimes, we still end up hearing it anyway...worse than children at times.
He needs to back off and leave her alone; but he won't. I think he still blames her to an extent; because there came a time when she filed for a divorce; told him to leave, and literally "forced" him to go on with the OW; because he didn't want to be alone...typical of a MLC'er who's trying to avoid their issues; and she's still being blamed ALSO, because she took the decision for going on OUT of his hands; therefore she does still bear the blame/responsibility for his having to leave for good.
I remember his ex wife saying she could not take his waffling anymore; and simply told him to go..and he went.
The point being; nothing is ever as it seems; most especially in MLC. It's a dysfunctional relationship; made up of children trying to play grownups; but you're talking about what is supposed to be mature people; considering the age they are.
And the thing about it is; I don't think you ever really get "rid" of them, especially when you've had children with them; you just learn how to cope with their ongoing antics; which is what his ex wife has learned to do...but the fighting continues that direction; and as little as possible, I don't get involved with it, much at all, if any.
It's apparent they're not happy; but they have to figure this out for themselves; and there's NO rule that says the MLC'er who marries OW/OM can't work through their crisis, even if they go on on their own, and marry OW/OM; it just makes it harder; because OW/OM don't make a good stanchion; and they have no clue HOW to help a MLC'er through..and that just makes a bad situation much worse, in my opinion.
There's many, however, who do get stuck; and don't make it all the way through; I've seen a few of those, too...and several were still in there when they passed away; so there is a chance that this can last a lifetime...simply because the MLC'er is too afraid to do the work within. Yet, on the other hand, I have also seen LBS' that also got stuck; and spent their time fighting the work they needed to do.
So, getting stuck CAN happen on both sides of the equation.
I hope this helps.
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Zinger, I don't have answers for you although like you I know of people who have married OW and continued on with their lives. One couple I know (with hindsight he went into a major midlife crisis after a heartbypass operation) look miserable all the time and have a very narrow network of friends. Yet they continue.
What I do know is that my h., like yours is living with OW, sees our two teenagers regularly and certainly makes more effort than he did before and continues in a job that he used to like. So on the surface he is 'happy' with OW, a great father to our kids despite the separation and in a job that fulfills him. However, I hear things from my children and others. He told our D17 some months ago that he would have done things differently if he had known how little he would see them, he told D25 that he and OW fight (actually she controls him!) and he told a friend of ours lately that he intends to give up his job.
He says none of this to me and I am sure if I asked he would continue to say how happy he is, etc., etc.,
From your details this is still very new and your husband is still on the initial high of leaving to get his freedom from you and life with OW. Just let this run its course. It will.
I found solace in reading the articles on here, especially the ones on infedility, over and over again plus other peoples threads.
The hard bit, at least for me, is finding the patience to deal with the timeframe. So I give myself 'time' - it is currently a whole year to think about / work on what I want from my life next. Nothing to do with my husband as there really is nothing I can do to help him at this stage. He needs to find out for himself that OW cannot make him happy.
Take care,
CrazyStuff
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This book that I am reading, Crossing the Soul's River, A Rite of Passage for men. Written by William O. Roberts Jr., who had a long MLcrisis himself. He says that MLC is basically an "identity crisis". As a child we choose a certain direction and depending on response from family, friends, teachers, people we respect, we choose an IDENTITY for ourselves.
As the years go on, we sure up our identity even firmer and place ourselves basically into a box. At a certain point in life, usually after a drama, life altering experience or some such thing, we begin to question if we made the best choice for ourselves. We look around, see that all our material wealth has not really given us the happiness, contentment we had expected. Our choice in spouse no longer "satisfies us", in fact we feel they are directly responsible for our discontent.
He claims, that some MLCer's who strike out valiantly to change their lives, when first attempt does not solve their "unhappiness", they slink back into their box and continue to live a life of quiet desperation. Therefore, some return to their spouse, basically unchanged, others stay with the OP, but they tend to choose "one or the other".
I get the impression that unless they complete their journey, they are pretty much "doomed" to a miserable life, whether it is with wife or other woman. Seems to me, that is not a situation I would want to be involved in. To have my spouse return and settle grudgingly into his same old life with me, would make all this pain for "not"!
Seems to depend on the individuals, as most things do.
hugs Stayed
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Stayed,
I get the impression that unless they complete their journey, they are pretty much "doomed" to a miserable life, whether it is with wife or other woman. Seems to me, that is not a situation I would want to be involved in. To have my spouse return and settle grudgingly into his same old life with me, would make all this pain for "not"!
You said all you said in a different way; but it's the SAME things I have preached on so many times; only I'd phrased them all differently..very nice job of summarizing the book you've been reading.
And it's NOT a situation you would want to be involved in; when my husband was going through his secondary bout of crisis; that was the most miserable man I had ever seen; the battle within was intense; and he was fighting the completion of his journey tooth and nail..not that it did any good; and he was still fighting it when he fell and broke his ankle...he stopped fighting it around two months after that time; and started forward with a vengeance; finishing himself out the rest of that year and two months into the next.
What you summarized confirms again that in order to lead a peaceful life; the journey MUST be completed in ALL aspects...otherwise, the merry go round starts again and much worse the next time around with MORE time added; and more misery to be had.
Thanks for posting that summary; it's a nice bit of information to read and digest. :)
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Thanks all for the thoughts. Stayed, the book sounds interesting and I definitely will check it out.
Crazy stuff--thanks for your post. I am not that familiar with your thread but I will read up. It certainly is comforting to know other mlcers seem to be happy and high functioning with children and jobs--I felt like mine was a bit of an anomaly on that front.
HB, thanks for sharing all of your thoughts as well. I know there is nothing I can do to help him in his journey. I have been pretty Dark with him except for kid stuff these last few weeks and it definitely helps. I feel like I am turning a corner. I've noticed I can go a day or so without crying and I have noticed that I am able to have actual FUN--this is progress for me 7 months post BD.
I continue to work on myself and can see a full life witout him--I was the distancer so there is part of the being alone that feels good and easy for me. My biggest current struggle is my D11--she is really expressing her sadness and anger (which is great and I've been encouraging her to do). She just misses her dad being around and she really doesn't like all of the ping ponging. She said to me last night: "I just want daddy to love you forever. why doesn't he?" My H has explained to our Ds (11 and 7) that he kept his bad feelings inside for so long that that they just built up over time to the point where he was no longer happy with me. My D11 is trying to understand that and make sense of it but she is a smart one and definitely can't seem to make the math work. ??? She doesn't know about OW--so far H has respected my wishes that she not be introduced to them.
In light of my Ds sadness, it is hard not to feel like a failure as a parent--I know likely nothing I could have done to stop his mlc, but I feel so sad that I wasn't able to prevent this HUGE loss for my girls--as a parent all we want to do is protect our little ones and when we can't it HURTS LIKE NOTHING ELSE. :'(
I'm trying to encourage my Ds to express all of their feelings to both me and my H so that hopefully they don't grow up doomed to repeat the cycle.
ANOTHER QUESTION:
How do you all feel about the kids expressing their anger/sadness to the parent MLCer? Does this send them back in the same way it does as when a LBS expresses feelings and asks questions? Should I encourage my daughters to NOT share their feelings with their Dad?sorry to hijack the discussion...
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FWIW, I tell my kids that if they don't tell their dad how they feel then he won't know. I also say that we can't control him or make him want something else. The two seem to contradict each other....
Mine have all said how they feel, and feel he doesn't listen, so they don't say any more. It's a catch-22. They don't say, bottle it up, so it comes out in other ways (mostly towards me...).
I also tell them that they however they feel is OK, they don't HAVE to be angry.
Right now we have the situation that they still want him back; they know that I am standing even though I haven't put it that way to them, but that gives them perhaps more hope than is good right now.
I have no idea what it does to the MLCer when kids express their feelings; personally I don't think it has much effect, but equally them bottling it up isn't good. My H says "I know" when S says he wants him to come back. Or wiggles out of it some other way. I think it does contribute to their guilt; whether that is good for what we want or not is hard to tell. I've been told that them feeling "healthy" guilt (the kind they feel themselves, not the kind someone else piles on them) is good, and kids just saying how they feel I think falls into the first category.
Lately I've been trying to explain to my teenage D that it is important that she say what she wants, even if it doesn't happen.... that's for her to learn for her own future relationships more than anything else.
So I tell her that it is important that she say to her Dad if she wants to see him on his own; she can't "make" him do that, but she can learn to say what is important to her. Otherwise she may be in danger of always just accepting what men say and do....
it's a fine line....
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Zinger, I don't think whether the children speak their minds, their truths, their feelings, has any effect on the MLCer whatsoever. It doesn't seem to send them running, or coming forward, just no effect. My h told me, he felt that IN THE END, his children would come to understand. That they would want HIM to be happy. That at this time, they were too young to understand, but in time EVERYBODY would see that this was for the best.
I would never encourage my children to "bottle" up anything, but I would warn them that if they do not get the "reaction" they are hoping for, or the understanding, to PLEASE talk to you about it. Explain that their father is having a crisis and really not in his best state of mind.
I think it is very important that you be HONEST with them. I wouldn't bring up OW but if your daughters seem suspicious, please put them out of their agony. Children often know far more then we realize and often BLAME themselves, or translate such things as this, as THEM, not being ENOUGH to make their father happy.
Please never lie to them. TheY NEED somebody they know they can TRUST, with and about ANYTHING.
Loveisntaweakness:
William O. Roberts, certainly acknowledges that childhood/adolescent issues play a part, he seemed to focus more on the premature "death" of a friend, whom he was helping through his MLC, before his own MLC happened. He actually lost a couple of very close friends, by freaky accidents, who both happened to be in crisis.
His primary theory, seemed to be based on "second" guessing, if he had made the right choices, in most everything. Profession, wife, life in general. iIf he had chosen the correct route, then why wasn't he HAPPY? He very much STRESSES that the crisis is INTERNAL, although like all MLC'ers, he blamed it on everybody BUT himself. This gentleman though, got himself into counseling, studied and partook different types of therapies and religious retreats. He honestly didn't seem to just let himself fall into MLC.
That being said, it STILL took him a long time to complete his journey. He had just turned 40ish (threshold he says... to me that is just 40), when his crisis began, he calls it a transition. He wrote this book in his 50's, somewhere in there, he came out of it. He totally acknowledges that his wife took the brunt of his MLC. He does not go into her part at all, due to the strict area that the publishing company wished this book to work within. Must say, I would love to read his wife Melissa's story.
His main goal in writing this book is to emphasize that the male midlife passage is an incredible opportunity for growth that needs a rite of passage to support it. He is aware that men, do not have many outlets or safe places to work through this stage in their lives. (Wives, are never a good outlet, as we are not men for one thing, but we are just too close to the MLCer).
I like this book because his objective is very similar to this forum's. He wants to support and encourage MEN to take their journey and let it lead them to a happier, more content life.
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LIW,
Unless I'm wrong, RCR's, Stayed's and HB's Hs in the end didn't make major situational changes, rather they made internal changes. ??
Actually, my husband made a combination of external, and internal changes; he changed jobs once during his initial MLC; and he changed jobs twice during his secondary bout. The first time, he wanted a complete change in his employment; he was dissatisfied; this was one of his issues; and part of his Identity crisis...and apparently during the secondary bout, he was still not satisfied; because he changed employment twice that time; and he's actually settled in where he is, now...when he broke his ankle last year, after he healed, he returned to that same place he was employed at, in spite of the fact they broke his lease while he was down.
Also, as part of his Identity crisis; he had to settle the issue of either being married or not married; and he opted for continuing to be married, because there were still feelings within him for me; and in his words, he couldn't stand the thought of not having me in his life if he walked away. I think somewhere within him, he knew if he walked; for him, there would have been no going back; and he would have left me completely alone; and never returned, had he done that. Pride has a way of working on some men that way; and he's no exception.
To be quite honest, he THINKS he needs me, when he really doesn't...I don't know the depth of his need, but it's there; and I don't think he'll ever get past that. I was and am what he knows and loves; and to some extent, it's the same for me; he's what I know and love.
Another external change was the fact that he quit smoking, took up dipping Skoal, AND was diagnosed with Diabetes during that secondary bout...it took him two years to accept the disease.
He started doing different things than before; external change again; as for example, he became a fan of Nascar; he watches different kinds of shows on Television than before, eats differently, as in liking things he hated before his crisis.
He started shaving his head, I told him he looked like a neo nazi skinhead biker, LOL, but he kept the goatee'. His mode of dress involves T-Shirts and jeans; although, for awhile, I saw him wear sandals..this was different; but eventually, he went back to tennis shoes.
He became the responsible person I once knew; but he's even MORE responsible than before; he doesn't waste his money; he's very saving..this was the opposite of before. Oh, and he was affectionate before; but he's even MORE affectionate now; and it is evident that he cares about son; making an effort to get together with him to spend time with him...but this is at Son's convenience; and I see my husband willing to inconvenience himself at times; whereas he didn't before.
In regards to situational changes; no; he didn't run completely away; although he'd raised the issue of wanting to sell out and move somewhere else several times, I made it quite clear that I didn't wish to move; but if he wanted to move, he was welcome to knock himself out; he still had to learn to be content where ever he is.
Some things didn't change; but there was a whole lot more that did. For example, he's still a neat freak; and that's an aspect of controlling; but his truck is his truck; and you could eat off the floors in it; yet, he also helps me by doing various things here at home; like I came home not long ago, and he'd washed out the refrigerator; or he'd sort some things and clean out a closet. Or I would find the floor mopped, bathrooms completely cleaned; things like that.
I do my parts, too; so he does some, and I do some; I remember him saying that I worked as hard as he did; so he was pitching in. He will cook on occasion; and he didn't do that before.
He still washes his own clothes, and I do mine. One of us will pitch a load in washer, dry it and put it away. :)
I see a more peaceful, and settled man; who views me as his friend, his companion; his helper, his lover, and his wife. We are in this together; and he's said this quite a few times. :)
Emotionally, he's more open, more apt to speak up when he doesn't like something; and he really tries to be a husband to me; not just my boss; and he doesn't try to "lord" it over me. We agree to disagree when we need to; and this didn't happen before, as before, it was his way or the highway.
So, I would say, there were a combination of external and internal changes that contributed to what he became; but he was the one with these decisions...except the ones that affected me personally, and required my input.
There came a time when I realized that I could not indulge his restlessness; and it took me as the anchor to hold him firm; that's why I refused to move, just because he said he wanted to; I was told this would pass, and it did. I saw later that if I'd given in once; the trend would have continued; and he would have never been satisfied.
In time, he realized, as I stood my ground with him, that home was whatever I was; just as home for me, is where ever he is; but you gotta live somewhere; and the economy where we live is not bad; and it's a nice quiet place out in the country.
In many ways, however, there are MORE internal, than external changes that occurred within; and you want the internal changes to happen; this is where the core of them resides; although the core person won't change; other aspects will change; assuming they allow the crisis to work on them.
My husband, as a result of his Identity crisis; had to find his "place" in not only this world, but within himself, his job, his life and his family; and be settled with how his life was, as a whole, and would be in the future. That included me; but it could have so easily NOT included me; he could have chosen to walk away and start over again; and there was a time when I actually thought he was going to do that, but he didn't...he chose to stay with me...and I chose to stay with him.
As he repackaged himself; he became someone he was more comfortable with; and someone I have no trouble living with. He became a giving, caring person; and I know where I stand with him; as his number one priority...I was never that before the crisis.
They do become different people in many aspects; they are never the same once the whole of the crisis is navigated...and adjustments are made on both parts, because NEITHER MLC'er or LBS are the same people they were before the crisis happened..both should have grown and changed, and become more mature adults, better able to handle what life throws at them.
We don't always get it right; and we don't always agree; but we agree to stick together; and face the world as team players; equal on all counts...and this wasn't true before the crisis happened.
The reality of our lives now is such a different and better one. :)
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My husband also changed "jobs" during his crisis. He left the military and took his present job. While in the peak of his MLC with OW, he often talked of leaving this job and they (h & OW) going into business together for themselves. He sounded like he wanted to sever all "ties" with his past.
Like HB said, the changes initially were internal, then went external and steadily more and more extreme, both internally and externally. In the end, he did not leave his present job, obviously, he did not go into private enterprise with OW. He did not sever all connection to siblings, old friends, children or me... but he came bloody close.
Reading a really interesting part about the OW. He says when talking to Other MLC'ers, the other woman was not about sex. We all seem to have figured that out, not a surprise to any of us. The attraction definitely is, that our men THINK these women are LISTENING to them. They feel they are baring their souls to these women and these women listen and validate and make them FEEL WHOLE, again.
No wonder they are so defensive of these OW in their lives. In their minds, these women "set them free", "saved them" from themselves. That also explains why we WIVES are so jealous and resentful of these women, in our minds, they were able to reach our spouses in way that we could not, were not even allowed to try to.
Perhaps rather then thinking of these women as "Marriage Wreckers", we should consider them as intermediary, marriage builders. While our spouses are laying out their soul's at these women's feet, talking down about us, they are also revealing much about themselves. Imagine being able to talk nonsense, with somebody who had no expectations from you, other then the hope that you would choose to stay with them. Every word out of your mouth is listened to attentively, almost sacredly. Actions are viewed with total approval, almost adoration. No wrong can be done. What a high!
I'm not sure how this contributes to the whole scheme of things, but in spite of the adoration, hero worship these OW lavish on our spouses, they are seldom able to HOLD ONTO our men. In many ways, our h's having expelled their inner thoughts, returned feeling "refreshed", "cleansed", albeit, with guilt, but getting rid of all that "stuff", left room for them to take on NEW stuff. Hopefully, stuff that will enable them to share their lives with us again.
OOOOOOOOOOO this book does titillate the "gray cells"... mmmmmmm! Food for thought.
hugs Stayed...
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A quote from this book, Crossing the Soul's River. To me, this speaks to both MLCer and LBS'er.
Who do we see in our mirror? Do we have the courage to examine ourselves with our own questions and our own untapped capacities, to probe deeply enough at our own reflection so that we see not some mere reflection of the persona we have cultivated in the first half of life, but our own self peering back at us? What a challenge to look behind the mask, to greet the true self underneath it all!.
WE spend so much time looking at our spouse. Analyzing every move, every action. We spend almost as much time examining the attraction of the OW/OM. How much time, do we spend examining ourselves, daringly, openly, honestly? Not in respect to our spouse, our children, even our family.... ONLY about ourselves, in respect to ourselves. Compare ourselves to ourselves.
I think that is what our MLCer is doing. Comparing him/herself to him/herself, of course finding themselves falling short of their own expectations. I'm not sure they are blaming us, as much as we think they are. Like any good experiment, you RULE OUT, the obvious first. Things get much more complicated at that point.
The more I learn about this crisis, the more I KNOW, the only way through this is to LET GO, let go of it all. Focus the journey on YOURSELF. We didn't ask for it but we are stuck with it, why not take advantage of it?
HUGS Stayed
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LIW -
Much easier to think someone else is the problem
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They don't just think someone else is the problem, they cycle between who is the problem, but never land on themselves.
I heard that it was his job, then I heard that it was his father, then me, then his mother, then he started semi-blaming our six year old! "He had never made decisions on his own, he had never followed his own happiness, no-one wanted him to be happy" Of course MOST of the blame is placed on the LBS, because we were the most significant other adult in their lives (besides themselves - the common denominator they never seem to look at is themselves).
Of course the greatest irony of all is that NOONE in their life has ever been as controlling as the OP and they just don't see it. ;D ;D ;D
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Of course the greatest irony of all is that NOONE in their life has ever been as controlling as the OP and they just don't see it.
Now, isn't that the truth? I wonder why that is?
hugs Stayed
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Of course the greatest irony of all is that NOONE in their life has ever been as controlling as the OP and they just don't see it.
Now, isn't that the truth? I wonder why that is?
Simply because the OP the MLC'er chooses is JUST LIKE THEM.
Opposites attract, just alike will repel in a "normal" situation; but during MLC; just alike DOESN'T repel; it's the OPPOSITE of what should happen; during their affair, the OP and the MLC'er are in the same boat emotionally; they are controlling, using, and out to get what each want from the other; without regard for what the other feels; and the MLC'er isn't feeling much of anything; so, that's acceptable, at least for a time.
Food for thought.
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Very good food for thought... must say, that never ever occurred to me. Makes sense in the same weird way that MLCer's think. Whatever is opposite to what your MLCer would want or do before their crisis... then for sure they will do it.
No wonder the LBS is always caught off guard, it's impossible to think that MESSED UP!
Thanks HB... I get it now, it's all clear.
Hugs Stayed...
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Opposites attract, just alike will repel in a "normal" situation; but during MLC; just alike DOESN'T repel; it's the OPPOSITE of what should happen
HB - just to clarify, does that mean the MLCer is attracted to alike people, as in like what they are in MLC, or like what they were before? I assume you mean the former?
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Stand and Deliver,
HB - just to clarify, does that mean the MLCer is attracted to alike people, as in like what they are in MLC, or like what they were before? I assume you mean the former?
People in a "normal" situation, are usually attracted to people that are opposite of them. For example, when my husband and I got together, we had a few things in common, but we are the direct EMOTIONAL opposites of each other in SO many aspects...as you can tell from the "books" I write on here, I'm an engaging, talkative, and friendly person. My husband on the other hand, is a quiet soul, watches people, says very little; and to some extent he's shy.
During the MLC, however, my husband became the OPPOSITE of what he had been, and most of this opposite, due to his issues, damage from childhood, immaturity, etc., was really bad; the OW he chose, was JUST LIKE HIM;(although, also, like his mother in temperament; and I'll just say that she wasn't a very nice person), in the emotional state he was in during his MLC...they used each other; controlled and manipulated each other, ran over each other, he did things to her he wouldn't have dared to do to me; I suspected a few things, but didn't pursue what I suspected, as I'm thinking they literally beat on each other; based on some bruises and heavy scratches I saw on my husband during that time. It wasn't something I really wanted to know...there are some things best left uncovered, and this was one of those. It was enough to know he was involved with another.
Before his MLC, I knew he was NOT a violent person. He never bothered me that way, although, I saw several times, the temptation to just cut loose and beat the dog out of me, simply because I was THERE; which prompted me to pray for protection...and the Lord granted it to me, and our son.
Anyway,
They choose OWs/OMs that are just as damaged, emotionally as they are; and it would be the opposite of what it normally would be; as THEY are the opposite, they CHOSE one that fits their opposite state; and it's not NORMAL to be this way. NORMALLY, people that are just alike, REPEL each other; there should be NO attraction there; and most of the time, there isn't. Whereas during the MLC; the MLC'er and the affair are ATTRACTED; their personalities, emotional damage, etc. is as close to a match made in Hades as they can get. I don't know HOW they survive for the time of the affair in that aspect, they are that much of an IMperfect a fit; yet, just LIKE each other.
By all rights, the affairs should NOT go on as long as they do; but they do; and I think it's because one or the other "bypasses" these undesirable traits that are MIRRORED to each other for as long as they are involved with each other. But these mirrors cast a lot of smoke, too; and eventually, that smoke must clear from the mirror and show a clear reflection; showing the true colors of one or the other, leading to an emotional change; and an eventual breakdown of the affair; IF the MLC'er will allow themselves to see what the affair partner really is, OR the affair partner sees this.
They are BOTH, users of each other and others, abusers of each other and others, emotionally damaged, selfish, and out for themselves.
As the MLC'er is different they desire something different; but since they have become the opposite; they choose the opposite of what they had chosen in the life they had before the MLC...and the OW/OM they choose is most LIKE them; instead of the affair partner being the opposite of what they have BECOME during the MLC.
This is one of the aspects that doesn't seem to make sense; yet, apply this to MLC, where everything is opposite, and/or upside down; yet, it happens like that for a reason; the affair was never meant to last; and if it does, the MLC'er must REALLY be a glutton for punishment, as their lives will be miserable for the during; because they have chosen such an uneven type union; not to mention the family they have abandoned in favor of a person who is JUST LIKE THEM; and they will NEVER be truly happy, there will always be constant upheaval in their lives..and that is consequences for their actions against the innocent family they left behind in favor of their own selfish pursuits.
And you know the strangest thing, and I speak from experience, during my journey I experienced becoming the opposite, as well, and in many aspects, as I "overhauled" myself; I became the opposite of the person I had once been; and as he changed, and came forward, he became ATTRACTED to me once again; as he tested my changes, found them immovable; and eventually, decided to go on with me, although, I was NOT the same person he had left behind, initially, in his crisis.
His core personality returned; in time, but other changes, as he faced himself and came forward, LONG after the affair was finished, and he was making his way toward the end of the tunnel, took the place of not only the "opposite" behavior I had seen during his MLC; but a great deal of the "old" person, he had once been.
Coming out was two strangers who had to get to know each other again; and that was half the fun of getting to the rebuilding of the new marriage we have, now.
So, they don't remain in this state forever; if they will just move forward, and start facing the issues and aspects at hand. :)