Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: wondering on June 14, 2011, 06:23:59 AM
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I found this site and it's 27 pages of single other women talking about their affairs with married men and how much pain they are in. It was an eye opener if you think they are so happy and never going to break up. Many talk about the addictive quality of it.
www.lifescipt.com/Life/Relationships/Love-101/Dating_A_Married_Man_Think_Before_You_Act.aspx#disqus_thread (http://www.lifescipt.com/Life/Relationships/Love-101/Dating_A_Married_Man_Think_Before_You_Act.aspx#disqus_thread)
Hope the link works...it was very interesting to read that the majority of these women had major regrets.
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WWTD
Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing!! Eye opening.
Here's the link to get their as the one previously provided didn't come up. :)
http://www.lifescript.com/Life/Relationships/Love-101/Dating_A_Married_Man_Think_Before_You_Act.aspx
TS
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For some reason my link didn't work so go to what truth_seeker posted. But it is the comments below the article that are so interesting
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I am appalled by the number of women who just blatantly don't care that they are having an affair with a married man and how many of them believe that these poor men aren't getting any sex. I want to smack them all. So many of them are "in love" an believe that they are the true love of the man's life. NOT.
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Yes, isn't it weird. Alot of them were so positive these men would leave their wives for them. Even a few did but mostly temporarily and then went back to their wives. All the promises and excuses from the married man. These women actually think they are special, soulmates. But page after page are regrets. not to hurting the wife and kids. Only for their own pain and wasted years.
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LIW,
From what I read of the comments there wasn't much remorse from these OW. More justification for their actions than remorse or regret. It was all about "them". Selfish, narcissistic behavior. Truly eye opening at how little regard they have towards marriage. Which is why they are so needy, clingy, and have no self-respect. I too am appalled!
TS
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Really you see what they are willing to settle for in terms of a relationship, never a full relationship. Some of them are outright prostitutes saying that they are providing the sex the wives won't. Wow. What low self esteem.
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These three posts are perfect examples:
It is a lonely, sad, empty place to be. He tells me I am his soulmate and I am the only person he has ever loved,. . . but he will never leave his wife because he needs to be there for his kids. I never imagened I would be the other women. I know I am better than that. He says his wife has no idea, that she trusts him, that makes me sick. I am so damaged from this. Whoever said it before, how could I ever really have trusted him when he is such a good liar to his wife of 20 years. .
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Guest 03/03/2010 02:46 PM in reply to Guest
believe me i know that feeling all too well.they are liars i was told also im his soul-mate its all crap.they dont know how they are hurting us,its very shattering and going to be hard to ever trust again.maybe they do know how they are hurting us but really dont care.
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Guest 02/07/2010 10:11 AM in reply to Guest
I too went through the exact same situation. I broke it off and I wonder what will ever be....but I should have heeded the warnings from all of my friends. The fact is we are adults and we know better but sometimes our hearts and chemistry just happens. It is forbidden and that is what makes it exciting! If only these men would have the backbones to leave but they will not and do we really want a man that cannot be a MAN and strong? And yes, if they will do it to the woman they made vows to....they will do it to us in 10 years for the younger better model! Men suck and they are all the same, us women need to stick by each other.
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us women need to stick by each other.
Which women does she want to "stick by"? Other women just like her? Cuz I haven't been invited to THAT party.... I'm just the wife!
I don't feel sorry for these narcissistic women AT ALL.... they need to put down the romance novel and find out the world doesn't revolve around them and that AFFAIRS don't "just happen"!
One phrase I hear people say a lot in our society, once from a therapists mouth, is "you can't help who you fall in love with!" and I beg to differ!! I personally, am NOT attracted to married men (other than OP and Ready ;)) so there is little chance I would "fall in love" with one....
Some people are self indulgent little babies who take and take with NO regard for others..... I'm glad for their misery... too bad they won't LEARN something from their pathetic "mistakes"..... all they learn from it is that "all men are liars and cheaters and they suck and I am the poor little victim!".
I can't wait for my husband to figure out FULLY that his OW is NOT a "nice person who got dragged into something..." umm, no, she could have said "No, I will not date you... or NO, I will not continue to date you... or NO, I will not move myself and my daughter in with you.... or NO.... I will not sleep with you since you live with your wife... or NO, I will not emotionally blackmail you to keep you away from your kids...." She could have turned the whole thing around AS FAR AS HER PARTICIPATION at any time....my husband would have found someone else, but she could have done the right thing instead of riding her "mistake" to the ground.
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How about just "NO because you are married"
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AMEN to that!!!!
Fox xxx
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If only these men would have the backbones to leave but they will not and do we really want a man that cannot be a MAN and strong? And yes, if they will do it to the woman they made vows to....they will do it to us in 10 years for the younger better model!
1) They don't need backbones tp leave when there are plenty of women willing to get involved and sleep with them when they are married.
2) How about "if only these men would have the backbones to commit to their marriage vows EVEN when the going gets a bit tough"
3) And yes if they will do it to the woman they made vows to.... why the hell would you think they were trustworthy in the first place?????
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My H made a big point of telling me, at BD, that after he expressed his interest in OW by complaining about me (she is single, never married, no kids) she repeatedly told him, "You're not available." Duh! He thought that made her honerable, since she was trying to "resist" him. She said it over and over, and he was desperate for an escape, so he MADE himself available by leaving me, which is exactly what she wanted! She is very manipulative, but he didn't see it. Instead, she could have said, "I do not date married men." I agree with LG, love is a choice, and I would never choose to love a married man. I don't know what kind of person is attracted to an obviously troubled married man.
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Not long after my H moved out, he was back home begging me to have a R chat (as clingers do). I asked him what kind of a woman was she if she felt no guilt at encouraging him to leave his family. He began defending her and told me that 'She feels really bad, and that she has her own guilt to live with'.
What a woman. Almost 2years later and the R is still going on. So not that guilty then!!!
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Glimmer that sounds so familiar to me! My H said OW was distraught at what she was doing to me as her first H had cheated on her... ??? and that is supposed to make it ok is it???? When H dumped her at Easter to come back to me - on reading emails she kept sending to my H - it was as thought she had convinced herself she was the Wife and I was the Lover! Unbelievable... she wrote one liners like the following
Does she know how to make you happy
Does she know you don't have to spend money to have a good time
How will I know you're OK
I keep thinking of you cuddling up next to X
Is she still working
I'm lying in our bed holding on to your pillow
I can only sleep for 30 mins at a time when I do sleep
How long will this last for
etc etc etc
It was awful for me.....and I wish now I hadn't read them.... I made the foolish mistake of replying to one of her stupid emails and she wrote back immediately asking md "what gives you the right to make decisions for other people" what?????? what gives ME the right? 28 years of marriage, a ring and a wedding certificate that's what I thought! Needless to say I didn't reply again..... she would eat me up and spit me out :-[
My H just can't see it at all.....
Fox xxx
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Hey Foxy,
So sorry you had to go through that....but it does show you that you never want to engage with the OW. Gives them too much power! And, she is quite the manipulator.
Let it go. Let it go.
She's not worth it. Not worth anything. She had someone cheat on her.....it felt like hell, I'm sure ---- and then she does it to someone else. Just a worthless human being, in my book.
Let her have the MLCer. I'm sure he's quite the catch! Must really be enjoyable to be around. (Don't think that he is acting any better around her......He's a mess. You know it).
Hugs,
Limitless
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Oh, please.... my husband was scared I would get OW fired for mis-using her ho-tel employee discount and he said to me "I hope you wouldn't stoop so low!" :o
Then another time, he read me an email from her to him that was saying how she felt so bad about herself for what she was doing... she was going to "get a FB account" just so she could apologize to me and if I replied back to her she wouldn't read it but she just wanted me to know how sorry she was and "DON'T try and stop me, because I'm going to do it anyway even though you tell me not to...". Did I mention he was sobbing while reading her email to me? He finished with "Now what do you think of THAT???" and I paused for a moment and said "I think it's a manipulation and you refuse to see it...."
Of course, this drama was after another fight of theirs, which was CONSTANT from the very beginning... By constant, I mean they would break up every time they slept together, LOL!! BD was February of 2009 and the breakups started in April of 2009. Yep!
The OW telling them she feels so guilty is a MANIPULATION to get him to divorce you. She's fishing to see if he will get off the divorce fence in order to save her from feeling so guilty. She doesn't feel guilty AT ALL, and neither does your husband, by the way... not at first. OW in my case moved herself and daughter in with my husband, a married man who left her ignorant a** every other week for me... so how guilty could she feel? Certainly not going to win any Mother of the Year awards as far as I'm concerned... pure trash, and my husband couldn't wait to get right down in the gutter with her. True colors.
I've been to one of those OW forums and it made me physically ill to read so many emotionally SICK individuals in one place... your husband is sick.... after 16 months of this, the contrast between the two of us is marked.... I'm still stressed out, but there is light all around me while he is deep in the fog and darkness...
By the way, you will be able to recognize women in OW state of mind when you run across them in real life now.... they emanate desperation... they are like pod people.... empty inside.... always talking about their man and the awful way he treats them, but they are unaware how bad it is.. I've met a few, and it was uncomfortable.... the way they justify everything.... accept everything he does that is SOOOOO obviously wrong...
It's one thing for us, the actual SPOUSE to continue on under the circumstances, but let me ask you something.... IF you were single and DATING your husband right now and he was treating you the way he does, would you stay? Cuz other than a few LIES about how he can't live without her, he is treating OW like dog sh**... believe it!! She is eating it up... hoping if she "loves" him hard enough by keeping him on a short leash, he will come around. Sick.
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Sick it right. Must be really thick fog in that tunnel if MLCers can't see the disgustingness they are sleeping with. :o
My Hs ow gave my ds some presents back in March that 1 time they went over there. (only time) Presents? I asked H about it back then. He said "Oh she was just tring to make a good first impression..." :o :o :o
Pushing me down on the side street and running to be with her was the kids 1 st impresssion.. Kids witnessed BD.!!!!!The crap from the Dollar store was a 2nd impression >:(
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I agree with you LG about the MLCers treating the Ow's like dog sh*t...They really do..I have heard my H tell
his Ow that.....
" Your such a ow and maybe liked being sexually abused as a child, thats why your such a b*tch"
Yep! I heard him tell her that! I was on the phone with him one day back in Dec. and he flat out said that to her!
He admits he treats her like crap! but I also see that HE DOESNT trust her, Because SHE SLEPT WITH A MARRIED MAN! :o :o
I also believe in my H's case, he is working out issues with this behaviour. I truly believe he needs to see that
things CAN and HAVE been HIS fault. He is taking blame for alot of things...even when he shouldnt right now.
IDK, but that is what I see..AND his OW is not a pretty person either...I seen a pic of her a couple of weeks
ago and for a minute I thought it was her mother....I even said to H.." OMG is that her MOM?"
LMAO!! he said " nooooooo that OW"
I was shocked really...she looked OLD!! and she is 38, most of our friends and family have been shocked
to see she isnt older...because she looks "Used up" If ya know what I mean? :)
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Mamma.... trying to make a good first impression.... there are no words to describe the disconnect! I just want to burst out ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D how did you keep from doing it? Probably were so perplexed at the absurdity of his statement... and who would live without an air conditioner, by the way? What's wrong with them? Can't they hold a garage sale and buy one?? Can't they BUY one at a garage sale? Are they retarded? Maybe that's why they have your van.... so they can drive around in the air conditioning and sleep in the back if it gets too hot! I'm sure they are expecting it to be MUCH cooler downstairs since heat rises.... 8)
Synicca, I so wish I could see a pic of OW... ALL of them!! I wish we could have a hall of shame... but it's mostly out of curiosity... I saw a pic of one on the alt (when I knew my secret password, LOL!) and it was shocking!! They certainly don't choose OW for her looks or personality, hahaha!
While it is WRONG of your husband to speak to ANYONE the way you witnessed..... I'm not sorry for them at all... they are CHOOSING to be together in an abusive relationship.... they could walk away at any time, so by staying in it, they are AGREEING to the abuse. Please tell us more 8)
Just two days ago, my husband texted me that he thinks OW is "just a manipulator trying to wreck his marriage and ruin his life!" :o yep.... and he's the one participating and going back for more!! It ain't over 'til the MOMMY issue is resolved.... so let him do his thing and git 'er done!
By the way, I don't believe for a second all of the sob stories OW tell our husbands.... the bit about being abused by their husbands/boyfriends or sexually abused... COULD it be true??? Yes. That would explain why they are so damaged and wiling to find more of the same. BUT, they will also play the victim card to gain his sympathy and bring out the hero in him... and they go ON an ON about how "I've never met anyone like you... you are so special... I will never find anyone like you... fate brought us together... my prayers have been answered" and that morphs into "if only you weren't married.... I knew I couldn't find true happiness, but I'm willing to live this half-life with you because of my love... the timing is just wrong, but you can't help who you fall in love with... you are my soul mate...."
Straight out of a romance novel, and because we are anonymous here, I'll admit I know the lines because I read 'em too..... I just happen to know that THEY ARE FICTION!! Just like James Bond is a character and not my soul mate, much as I would like him to be. ;)
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I know my H said that, Ow has been sexually abused by an uncle, abused by her second H. AND that
her mom beat her. Yah, I dont believe that one bit!!
I KNOW what its like to be "abused" ( Not happy about it, but I know ) and someone who has
been abused by their b/f or H have "issues" with fighting. They DO NOT fight back.
mostly abused momen cower down to an abusive man. They do not start a fight...My h's Ow
has HIT my H. called him every name in the book. Told him " He was scum of the earth"
He has told her that she is a "C" "ow" B*tch" You name it...He has never hit her...( surprised, cause I would have )
He said The first night they went out "as a couple" She got out of the car ( at a bar, which was HER hangout )
Left him standing outside, went straight to her friends and ignored him for about 30 minutes he said.
For instance...one time he said, They were kissing and She had her eyes open, looking at a sign READING IT!
She admitted to that! :o :o Its all about the "game" for her. She wants to be the winner. The last word kinda person.
but so is my H.
SO they butt heads alot. He told me that when he has "cried" in front of her, She says " What the hell you cryin for?"
Now, I see him "backing off" "letting things slide" Doesn't engage in fights as much.
She is " playing nice" ( as much a s she can anyway ) He thinks she is "getting used to ME being in the picture" :o
That she isnt so jealous of me anymore...Ha! :o dumb*ss hahaha
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I agree with you LG about the MLCers treating the Ow's like dog sh*t...They really do..I have heard my H tell
his Ow that.....
" Your such a ow and maybe liked being sexually abused as a child, thats why your such a b*tch"
Yep! I heard him tell her that! I was on the phone with him one day back in Dec. and he flat out said that to her!
He admits he treats her like crap! but I also see that HE DOESNT trust her, Because SHE SLEPT WITH A MARRIED MAN! :o :o
I also believe in my H's case, he is working out issues with this behaviour. I truly believe he needs to see that
things CAN and HAVE been HIS fault. He is taking blame for alot of things...even when he shouldnt right now.
IDK, but that is what I see..AND his OW is not a pretty person either...I seen a pic of her a couple of weeks
ago and for a minute I thought it was her mother....I even said to H.." OMG is that her MOM?"
LMAO!! he said " nooooooo that OW"
I was shocked really...she looked OLD!! and she is 38, most of our friends and family have been shocked
to see she isnt older...because she looks "Used up" If ya know what I mean? :)
My H has said the same things, even went so far as to brag about how he treats OW like crap. Said if she doesn't like it she can leave. :o :o Umm H, YOU live in her public housing home. :o :o But OW is very manipulative and plays it off like she's saving H from the evil W and the kids who don't love him anymore. But OW and her kid LOVE him sooooo much. Even put a note on the refrigerator which said "H OW & her kid LOVE YOU SOO MUCH!" so our kids would see it when H was sneaking them to their "love shack" or should I say "OW's lair". >:( >:(
As for your description of OW it's the very much the same here. They looked used up at 38 because they ARE USED UP! Yuck!!! They didn't get that way for nothing. H's OW is 37 yrs old, smokes like a chimney, had wrinkles all over, bad skin, bad hair and also looks like H's evil step-M which I believe he's needed to work through from childhood. She even puts her hair up in a messy ponytail / bun just like his SM. It may not be his M but it is his F's current wife and tormenter of his youth.
We can "see" it but they can not. YET. In time I believe he will be disgusted by her as she is the exact opposite of me in every way.
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Kids witnessed BD.!!!!!The crap from the Dollar store was a 2nd impression >:(
OMG! That's the same experience we had. The dollar store stuff was a graduation present to my D from her F which D immediately identified was hand picked by OW. Stuff D would NEVER use! How thoughtful. NOT >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I don't know how my exh is treating the ow but I do not believe he is mean to her or calls her names. He never did that with me or even anyone else. He just didn't do that. That is what makes me think he will stay with her. He did tell my daughter when she asked if ow told h im what to do and he said she doesn't tell me sh t. I think she stays low because she doesn't want to rock the boat and she wants to keep him there. So she goes along with everything he says or does because she doesn't want to loose him and wants him to stay so she won't even do anything to make him mad.. They have been seen out together by a friend of mine and she said that when they came in the club the ow went on into the dance area and he went to bar and ordered a drink. She also said he didn't look happy but I believe that is a front or just his look at that time since he seen my friend. I don't know anything that he is doing because he has no contact with me. I hate that. I just wish he would talk to me or at least acknowledge me. Believe it or not the ones that have contact are lucky in my eyes. I feel like the hate towards me is so bad that he can't stand the sight of me. That feeling is so horrible. I feel like he wishes I were dead. My youngest even treats me this way sometimes and I can't figure it out. My oldest did tell me that when H left that he really messed up my youngest. We don't have our youngest anymore like we used to. He has cause all of this.
I would love to be able to just talk to him like a human being but he doesn't even want that.
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She also said he didn't look happy but I believe that is a front or just his look at that time since he seen my friend. I don't know anything that he is doing because he has no contact with me. I hate that. I just wish he would talk to me or at least acknowledge me. Believe it or not the ones that have contact are lucky in my eyes. I feel like the hate towards me is so bad that he can't stand the sight of me. That feeling is so horrible. I feel like he wishes I were dead. My youngest even treats me this way sometimes and I can't figure it out. My oldest did tell me that when H left that he really messed up my youngest. We don't have our youngest anymore like we used to. He has cause all of this.
I would love to be able to just talk to him like a human being but he doesn't even want that.
I highlighted the two points to address from my perspective and hope it may give you some comfort. 1st point: Lucky maybe? Personally, not so much. In all honesty, the less contact I have with my H the less drama I have in my life. Therefore, I'm focused on looking within myself and begin to heal. I cycle less when not around H because I can build up my strength. I choose when to return his calls. I choose when to engage. "I" not "H" any more for as long as "I" can do it. OP always talks about taking this time and using to your advantage to grow and heal for you and your kids. As much as YOU can through this.
2nd point:
Everything you said about the treatment, the wishing you were dead, etc. is part of the MLC script. I have and continue to have this from H but it hasn't been able to infect me like it used to because I know look at from a different perspective. H has lost his mind at this moment and I can't do anything about it but let go. Let go of the rope, let go of the anger, resentment, etc. Let it go. That's not to say to forget. The time will come when it will need to be worked out, but he's in Replay at the moment. As for your youngest. I have gone through the identical thing with my S. Read my thread. It only begins to touch on what my S has been going through. They cycle and test just as the MLC does. They are in pain. But I can tell you from experience it is a process to work through and they come back. When my S is with his F I have to go through the process of disinfecting him all over again until he feels safe, secure and loved again.
Hope this gives you food for thought and comfort to know you're not alone. We all know how you feel and are here for you. So sorry you are going through this but time is truly on your side if you make the best use of it.
Speaking of time -gotta run to take my S to his first ball game with the new HS team. He made it!!! I'm so proud of him!!!
Much love to you!
TS
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Truth seeker,
Thanks, It does help but I would help me if he would talk to me becasue at least then I know he was thinking of me. It is like I do not even exist. At lease with contact they know you exist.
Youngest has always been very verbal and could tear you down with her mouth but it has gotten so much worse. Her sister said she doesn't even know how to talk to an adult. She is so hateful with her words and actions. I am afraid to say anything to her because she bite my hear off most of the time and then I get defensive and the fight is on. Before any of this happened and her dad left my youngest and her sister got into it because of the way my youngest was talking to her dad. Oldest told her to not talk to him that way and they got into it and oldest smacked her and their dad had to get inbetween them and pull them apart. I was at work and youngest called and told me and yelled at me and said I was taking sides. I didn't even know what happened until I got home and Oldest was upset and crying because of what had happened. I am so worried about my youngest and I can see her going down wrong paths. I can see she is messed up but she is handling it in the wrong way. Her dad doesn't even care or he can't see it because youngest is good at putting on a front just like him. Maybe something will happen that will wake both of them up.
Thanks for listening.
Also, has anyone heard of an MLCer going thru a third party to reconcile? My oldest says she thinks her dad will go thru her to find out if I would talk to him once he realizes what he has done since he will not talk to me now. I often think of ways he might come back and believe me I have thought of a lot of things. I keep hoping he will do something but nothing yet. I think he has been in MLC a long time because I just found out that he told youngest in 2004 that ne didn't think he wanted to be married but he never said a thing to me until October of 2010. Can MLC be going on this long or what would you call it?
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Hamp,
I know how hard it is not to have contact...but...just a thought. Have you tried to contact him?
I know sometimes its better to leave them alone when they are in full Monster Swing, but maybe
he thinks YOU dont care?
Just my thoughts
It gets better!
Hugs
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I have contacted in back when he first left but he acted like he didn't want to talk and never tried to contact me. Now I am afraid to contact him because of the rejection. I hate that feeling and since he hasn't contacted me I feel he doesn't want to talk to me. It is like he can't stand me. He knows I would welcome any contact because his d mentioned it back when he left.
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How long has it been since you last spoke directly to him??
Look, this is just my .02 but really, what have you got to lose? You have allready lost him to MLC
and just take a deep breath right before you call, or whatever. Then be PREPARED for rejection.
YOU are not the bad person here. YOU did NOTHING wrong. SO if he yells...Just say good bye.
Its simple. We get so scared of rejection, we lose our own voice. stand up, be strong! YOU CAN DO IT!
Have faith in yourself, Hamp...really have faith.
Hugs
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Hamp
You don't need to talk to him to know he is thinking of you. Especially while they are in replay, their thoughts about their spouse can lean toward the negative side. I learned that from someone who went through MLC. Allow him the time and space he needs.
As he progresses through the tunnel and his depression begins to lift, his thoughts and memories will become more positive. It's better to let them start pursuing you. When you contact and pursue the MLCer, it puts emotional pressure on them.
Be still and be patient.
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Be still and be patient.
Hamp
I have to agree with DGU on this. It's so very hard to do but I believe needed to navigate through the MLC madness. Do a 180 from what you would've normally done. Let him pursue. BELIEVE me your H is thinking about you more than you know. Sometimes we feel we have to do something to shake things up and let them know we're still around but they already know we are. Stayed has said her H "knew" when she was truly moving on.
Be STILL and Patient until the right time comes along when your H has progressed through the tunnel. As RCR has often said Praying is doing something. Use spiritual warfare to get through to your H. What could it hurt to try? Let go and Let God. If I were in your H's shoes I would be scared sh*tless to be up against God. :o :o That's not a battle I'd participate in as I am certain of the outcome. my .02
(((HUGS)))
TS
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Hamp,
I do know about thinking that the MLCer wishes the LBS were dead. It would solve all their problems, right? Well, that right away shows that he IS thinking about you.... and still firmly in the tunnel.
I've had that, too -- when my good friend suddenly died a few months ago the subject came up, and he said instantly that if I were to suddenly die he would just move right back in without missing a beat.
Hamp, that all just goes to show that they are deep in it. And, in their own twisted way, they ARE thinking about us. Actually, I think they are constantly comparing their OW to us, even if not quite consciously. They can't get away from it. The guilt is always there.
Regarding contact; well, for a long time I did the opposite of you, I DID contact him. All sorts of pretexts, kids, finances, or whatever..... it didn't solve anything. The times that I think it was good were when there was a serious situation -- a death, for example. RCR has a bit on this in her article on the Friendship Balance.... But so much was me just wanting an excuse to hear his voice.
Is it better to have contact? Well, I do, and it keeps me in a constant cycle. I feel relief when each week it's over, then it starts up again as I wonder what will happen next time.... so you have to work harder to detach each time, you have to work harder with the kids each time.
So healing when he's not around is easier, IMO. But it's very likely that I'm saying that just because it's the other side of the fence.
There's a lot of opinion on "to contact or not to contact"; it can be OK to contact, to "see where he is"; it's the expectations that do us in. So if you can call "just to see how he is" and not react to whatever the outcome is, then it's fine.
I think the reality is that this is hard no matter how you cut it. Somehow accepting that is part of this process for us. And even though we know that, it's still hard, it still hurts, it's still upsetting, it's still always there.
It's a long process, Hamp.
x
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Hi everyone!
I need to read a lot more of this thread, but just wanted to put my .02 in. .Because this subject is one of my biggest issues when
it comes to the OW. It erks me to no end that they just cannot turn the Married person down if it is him who starts it. Or why they would even think about coming on to a married man knowing that others will be so hurt in the process.
I keep telling my H that OW should have turned him down, said no way, how dare you do that to your wife, You are married" I just can't get over this. I blame her so much..
This is a huge thing that weighs me down.. I just CAN'T believe a woman could do this.. And don't get me started on them being
all sad and crap when the MLCer goes back to his spouse.. waaaaaa.. shut up! Now she knows exactly how we feel Omg, how
dare she be all sad and crap after what they put us through. I can not wait until My H OW feels like I feel right now... Heartbroken.
Her hurt will never be as bad as mine. I have 23 years on her.
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Couldn't have put it better myself! All I got from my H at Easter was "how bad she felt about what she'd done to me" and what a hard life she'd had!!!
Like I care or give a damn!!!!
Love and hugs
Fox xxxx
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People ,always remember the MLCer is a teenager brained creature. They really are. We are trapped watching a scarey movie where the action going on is hurting us and we are abandoned and it's NOT about us. OK? :o
I believe the OW is a teenager brain as well. My H must seem like the most handsome politest man she has ever slept with. :'( :'(
I will continue to impress myself and my kids and my family and friends by accepting he's in a tunnel full of stupidity and nonsense and he'll wake up someday.Time flies." Get the popcorn "as my sister likes to say. Her H came back after 18 mos. Now their M is the BEST> REALLY!!! Think about it their sick R has no chance of making it. they are out of the minds.I know mine is locked in the bathroom eating vicodin and rolaids.For all the uncontained HAPPINESS!!!
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I just can't stand that my H's OW has not problem coming up to our Yacht club to sail when she has three clubs right near her. But she drives almost an hour to sail in ours to stick it to me.She has no conscience, no soul and no remorse. Right now she is devastated because he broke it off from her for the third time. She's dropped a lot of weight in the past few weeks...look like the LBS that I'm sure she conciders herself to be. But she is not giving up and it is sucking the life out of me. Who ever thinks it is easier having a clinging boomerang rather than a vanisher...you have no idea the hell we live in. I can't take it much longer.
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WWD< I don't know about that. At least w/ a clingy boomeranger you can see the confusion. The cycling. If detached properly it is interesting to watch them pull out all the stops of not wanting to be w/ us but struggling constantly w/ the thoughts of losing us :o :o :o
Almost a look behind the eyes of panic and desperation. Turmoil.I'm not gonna let my Hs moving crappy furniture out behind my back bother me. It's furniture! His soul is on fire with confusion. Hes in CRISIS. I pull back Pull back Duct tape over mouth. Duct tape around heart.
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I would rather have a clinging boomerang! My H hasn't even looked back, lives 3 hours away, cut me and his son off financially 5 weeks ago, is trying to starve me and his only child out of our home ect... It can't get any worse. At least with a clinger, I feel you know they still care and are thinking about you. We have no contact what so ever and his actions against me and especially his 13 year old son who needs him are dispicable to say the least. This is a man who was nice to me right up until BD phone call in Feb.. Never saw it coming. Now he is supporting and living a luxury life with a trailer trash lady who lost custody of her 2 kids. I just can't figure it out and the pain that me and our son feel every day is overwhelming.
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Dear heartbroken,
I'm so, so sorry...I can feel the saddness through your words and understand those feelings so well. I had a sort of clinging boomerang experience at Easter and either way it sucks! When they're with you, you don't trust them, when they're out of your sight it's worse as you imagine all sorts of things.. NC brings it's own problems too. Sometimes ignorance is bliss - I know that my H is going on holiday with his "pretend family" to Spain on Saturday and it hurts like hell....I only know that because of emails from OW to H about cancelled flights etc at Easter which I read and asked why OW was asking for money for a cancelled flight? H told me it was a holiday she'd booked - clearly OW didn't cancel the flight, obviously had more faith that my H would go back to her before the end of June. Makes me feel so sad.
HB there is pain in this MLC no matter what they do... I am so sorry he is behaving in this monstrous way with you, can you protect yourself legally? he can't not pay you as you have a young child????? Look after yourself and your Son who needs you...
Sending you lots of ((((((((((hugs))))))))))) and love
Fox xxx
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Hmmm - I think my touch and goer is the worst (the battle of the MLCer's?). He lives 2 hours away, I see him but for such short spells he USUALLY pulls off looking happy and great for 10 minutes. I have a reliable source that tells me (without using these words) that he cycles. But when he is down, it is always the job, the stress of working out our D etc, my son misbehaving, the kids being far away. It is NEVER because he made the wrong life choices and is now stuck with an insecure, demanding (unattractive) harpy in the place of his wife with whom he used to have in-depth life discussions and true rapport...
I think they are all just awful actually - there is no "good" MLCer or "easy" MLCer.
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Thank you Fox ~ I filed for D in May. It is the only way to protect my son and I. My Atty ordered an Emergency Support hearing with the courts but it's not until August 3rd. ::) H is in contempt of court and he doesn't even care. Just trying to starve us out. I know his Atty is behind it. I just can't believe things like this are allowed to go on. It is so disturbing especially when kids are involved.
I can only imagine how you feel about your H going away on vacation with OW and her family. Our H's just have no clue as to the pain they cause us. My H didn't call S on Easter of anything. Later that week told him he would have come down if S wanted him to because he didn't do anything. Got H's financials last week and he was away with OW at an oceanfront hotel, fine dining ect.. H does nothing but lie and it really disturbs me how he lies to his own son. It is heartbreaking! :'(
I hope you are ok while your H and OW are away. I know I would be thinking about it every minute. Ughhh, I just wish I could forget all this or turn it off like my H is. Nothing bothers him about what he is doing to us. I wonder how they do that? ??? Take care and Hugs to you too!
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HB - they lie and then they "let" you find out the truth. I actually think one of the more bizarre thing is this strange inability THEY have to let us go!
I mean, my H told me one week he could see S like usual 'cos he had early meetings that morning. 3 days later pictures of a long weekend on facebook made it to his profile. Why not just tell me the truth if he is going to announce it to the world anyway? If he had naturally just grown apart from me, none of this would be playing the way it is, I believe. It is funny though, because I figure he wouldn't need to do this manipulative behaviour if he had simply "moved on". It is a mixture of guilt, curiousity about whether we will react (I said NOTHING to him about it) and the MLCers inability to truly move on however desperate they think that they are to do so. No wonder OW is paranoid much of the time. She is living with a nutjob, through choice and ignorance!
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loveisntweakness ~ The first 6 weeks H came down to see S but then with all his lies and H kept bad mouthing me to our S. (Obviously to cover his guilt) He wanted our S to side with him. Sick!!!! Then we found out about OW and that was the end of our S having anything to do with him. Our S says he never wants to see him again and that he has no father. :'( Honestly, I feel H is a bad influence on him anyway right now. He abandoned us, cut us off from all money, lies and says bad things about me to our S. Disturbing. I feel like my H has totally let go of us. He wants nothing to do with either of us. Do you all really think he will wake up one day and realize all the distruction and hurt he has caused us? I don't even know right now how he can live with himself, how he can sleep or how he can be happy with OW. I can't stand even thinking about it but it consumes me. I can't sleep. I am scared for me and our son. I don't have an income. I have my RE license but it is really slow this time of year. Nothing going on.
StandandDeliver-I really have no way of knowing what H and other W are doing. I only know about his trip and all the money he has been spending because he had to produce his financials for D. Other wise I would have no clue about anything. As a matter of fact, H made me a low ball settlement offer the week before and now I know why. He didn't want us to see his bank statements that showed he has done nothing but spend money, borrowed money from our 401K, bought a Harley, trips and fine dining while me and his S live in poverty. :'( >:(
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I am scared for me and our son. I don't have an income. I have my RE license but it is really slow this time of year. Nothing going on.
I really have no way of knowing what H and other W are doing.
I'm going to say something that was advice given to me by HeartsBlessing. It resonates with me now more than it did the first time I was given the advice. Maybe I had my blinders on but NOW I get it and I hope you will too. I wasn't ready to "hear it" or even "get it" at the time. :o :o If you don't today then maybe later on it will as it did me. I believe HB's advice is as relevant today as it was then and addresses both comments above.
"Put FEAR behind YOU"
"Focusing on H won't do anything but bring YOU down; You must reach the point of being a DISINTERESTED observer; totally detached from what H is doing...only then, will he 'hopefully' come forward."
HB: I'm paying it forward. ;) ;)
Much love to you all
TS
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truth__seeker - I totally agree. But it is hard when I have to go over his financials ect.. I have to see him in court Aug 3rd. When you are in the middle of a divorce, every other day there is some discussion with my Atty about him. That makes it hard to detach and not think about him. Plus I have no money and he is the reason why. He is breaking the law. Until the Judge orders him to pay me temporary Alimony and Child Support, I can't help but think of anything else. Then it's on to mediation.
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truth__seeker - I totally agree. But it is hard when I have to go over his financials ect.. I have to see him in court Aug 3rd. When you are in the middle of a divorce, every other day there is some discussion with my Atty about him. That makes it hard to detach and not think about him. Plus I have no money and he is the reason why. He is breaking the law. Until the Judge orders him to pay me temporary Alimony and Child Support, I can't help but think of anything else. Then it's on to mediation.
HB
Yes, I know it's hard. Believe me. I too have a court trial coming up on Aug. 2nd so though it may "appear" as though I don't understand I do. I'm sorry you're hurting, I'm sorry you're scared and worried about your financials, children, security, home and your R. I'm sorry for all of it. I'm sorry we all have to go through this but at the same time you would be surprised at the strength YOU have within yourself to carry on. Look at Buggy! I don't know if I would have been able to go through what she's been through and yet she has. She focused on the strength within her and the love of her children to see her through so much and continues to do. She's an inspiration to us all as are many others here. The LBS themselves are a pillar of strength. Think about it. The mere fact we are standing should say a lot. We're not the quitters. That would be so much easier for the short term but not in the long term.
Please understand I am in no way trying to lessening the hurt, pain, fear and stress you are going through. I only mean to help you put the focus back on YOU and what you need to do to get to a better place in your life. Start today focusing on what you want rather than continuing to put the focus on your H. Yes, hold him accountable! Hold him to his financial obligations and his responsibilities! I am not saying you allow him to simply walk away without meeting his obligations to his family.
What I am saying is the sooner you put the focus back on you the faster you will be able to regain your strength. We know you are beat up mentally, physically exhausted and scared. Feel all of it and then let it go as much as possible to begin to heal and grow.
You have your RE license so instead of looking at the negative in that "nothing is selling" maybe get creative and think about ways you can leverage it to work in this economy. For ex: Specializing in foreclosure listings or property management. Get the idea? Look at the blessing within it rather than the negative. In time it will begin to turn for the better. But until you start to look at the good in whatever life throws at you, You will continue to have much of the same. Have faith and hold on to hope for you and your children.
(((HUGS)))
TS
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HB
Sorry I haven't caught up on your thread but can you get assistance in the meantime. Did he leave the home? A lot of assistance is based on household income and regardless of the bills he's paying you can still get help. There are things out there to help you and your son but you have to be proactive. I know you are hurting...believe me but...it's like a pit and you are looking up toward the light in the sky and you're thinking how the H*** did I fall down here and how can I get up there. Step by step. You would not believe the way things come together. There are stronger forces at work here in each other our situations but God wants us to know our own strength to PULL ourselves up and things will come together in ways you can't explain and how you could of never imagined. You must trust, have faith and do all you can for YOU. YOU must protect and worry about son and you. Feel your pain but don't get stuck here. You are learning that everything you need and have is inside of you and when you actually experience that you learn a love that is everlasting. God is for you and if God be for you then who can be against you. I tell you because I have experienced it. I had no income, haven't worked for 8 years full time and three kids. It was bleak and I"m still working through but there are ways. You are in the driver's seat. Take back YOUR power and fly with it.
HUGS
BUGS
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Thank you Buggy and Truth__Seeker~I just got home from my Therapy session and that helped. I also talked to my Atty and she said I will be fine. She said all H's that know they are going to have to pay Alimony get really mean. Buggy, yes he left or should I say he never came home one Friday night. Called and said he was done and we didn't like the same TV shows or Radio stations. ::) Really? I never saw it coming. He worked away during the week and has an apt there. He came home on Friday nights and left Sunday nights. He has supported me for 24 years. Right now he is in contempt of court for cutting off all money to me and his S. He's trying to starve us out of the Villa we lease so I get something cheap. ::) I have no money to move and he knows that. Anyway, I know we will be fine. I truly do. I pray every day that God helps me to get through this horrible time and that he gives me the strength to be strong for our S. I really appreciate all the advice you all are giving me and I know you are 100% right. Thank you again.
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My Dear Heartbroken,
God will get you through this, I truly believe as hard as it may seem to us all, He never throws more at us than we are capable of handling..... take comfort in your children and be strong.....let us show our H's and W's that we do not have what I call "doormat syndrome" and that we are so very much better than who they think we are now and what they have gone to in their OW.....
Lots of hugs and love
Fox xxx
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Foxberry - Thank you so much for your kind words. You are so right when you say we should show them how much better we are. I was a great wife to my H and he left me for trailer trash. He can have her. Some day he will remember how I waited on him and how I always tried to do everything to make him happy. We have NC and he is 3 hours away and S won't have anything to do with him so that is good. It is easier for me to detach. When he was coming down to see our S on Saturdays and calling here for S, I found it extremely difficult. We haven't seen or talked to him now in at least 2 months. It's good. He needs to go live his life with OW and his new Harley. Thats what he was missing. Someday all the will wear off and it won't be so thrilling.
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Maybe this is not necessary, but I thought it might benefit those of us who have NO insight (moi), if those further along the process who have seen insights into the OP relationship could post their views on what seems to go on in the OP relationship - so that we can see the similarities in the different situations and can have a sense of what might be going on "behind the scenes" in our own MLCers affair relationship... I know this is not a science and everyone's sitch is slightly different, but I still think it can give us some perspective...
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Sorry I had to change the title of this thread because they are not insights about ME.
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Great topic. Well I have only been at this 6 months as BD was 2/25 but H been at it a lot longer. I believe he met her at a Pizza place where she worked. Within a couple of months he hired her at one of the dealerships he runs. She posted that in Oct. of last year but she also had just opened her FB account so who knows when she really started seeing/working for him. In Dec. she moved in with him at OUR apt.. :o :o :o He worked out of town during the week. By Feb. he was ready to abandon us and he did. I didn't find out about her until the end of April and have continually found out what a horrible person she is. 2 kids, never married, lost custody of her son in her senior year. Not sure why. Other baby died. Been in jail for writing bad checks, tons of traffic violations. Very bad reputation. The worst part of all of this to me about her is she moved in with my H months before he left me. How does any woman do that? And then of course the other part that really bothers me is that my H is still with her after learning all this info.. I just want to shake him. He even took her on vacation last week to meet his family. His mother already new her because she came down and helped the two of them move into a house together the week I got the BD. Such a nice MIL I had. :'( So my H has been with her about 1 year and seems to be very happy with her.
NewBeginnings
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SD,
I was thinking this just as I logged on and saw your thread!
My question is also, how is everyone so sure that the relationship is doomed and that the alienator will become controlling etc?
I've read all the articles and many comments and other web articles. Whilst I don't want to be a sceptic, I also don't want to be mislead. I truely no NOTHING about H and the OW. My kids see her often but all I know is their opinion of her. Have no idea how H and OW are connecting or not. Right now all I feel is that I am completely out of his heart.
So how can we be so sure that the relationship is not all roses? and that this will be the same scenario for every one?
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OP - sorry - although that could make for a very intersting thread too! ;)
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I too want to know what the OW relationship is like. I have heard many conflicting reports over the years (i have been at this for nearly 4 years) - Some of the things XH has said
The relationship is easy, no demands on me
Her children are the worst part of the situation
I am addicted to the relationship
I love her and I want to be with her
When I commented that she is devious in some of the things she has done he said I know, I am not stupid
So many more comments but nothing really concrete
What I do know is it is more about how she makes him feel than it is about her. I also know that no matter what he says or how he acts, he does not look happy, there is no sparkle in his eyes - they look dead. His eyes are constantly puffy and he looks like he is not getting much sleep. I see him every day and there isn't a day that I don't think to myself "he really is not looking good"
It will be really interesting to hear if anyone has more insight into the OW relationship - but with all these "cakeeaters" it can only mean that the relationships are not so great - If it was everything they wanted and needed and they were completely fulfilled, they would just dump us and never look back - food for thought
hugs
Tiff
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There was another thread about this just a little while ago, perhaps OP can link it...
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I have had the "luxery" :o of knowing TO MUCH about my H's and Ow's R...
but I will give my insight on thier sitch, My H met his OW at a bar. He was introduced to him by a friend of hers
(who by the way was having a PA with someone from my H's work as well) :o :o
so obviously no guilt there..
he told me that they have fought from day 4, but that there was "something" keeping him there and he figured
it was the "love" that he felt and it didnt matter that she had/has alot of issues (mental problems) She is a typical
OW, abused, needy, manipulater, you name it!
When he returned from NY back in Nov 10, He said they had fought every other day since they met. and that continues
to today. Their R is doomed because He isnt WELL and SHE is a nut case. LOL!
Hope this helps in some little way :)
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Hi everyone, I was happy to see this topic. I too, though I know I am not supposed to, focus on "them". I too keep questioning what I read that the ow is nothing. She sure seems like something to me. He is traveling with her, doing things for her, seems obsessed with her. I question how this still doesn't lead to real love even if it started out crazy. I have read the articles over and over but seem unable to wrap my head around the fact that her true colors will come out and it will end.
Maybe it is the insecurity I have of not being married to my partner. He is free legally to just move on and never look back and it sure feels like he has.
I don't know who she is, how he met her. He will not say. I just know the fact that he saw her somewhere and desired her cuts deeply.
I think I may have an idea of who she might be from the trail he left on the GPS he returned to me. If so she would be about 18 years younger than him, perhaps a former student, from years ago, was married, thought she still was, though her husband seems to have moved to another city recently. If it is this woman she recently lost about 70 pounds, has all these new glamour shots on facebook. If it is her I don't know what they have in common... Sex, excitement. She just seems so opposite from the man I knew. Writes about drinking, liking her music loud, being a loud person. So opposite of me.
Maybe this is what he always needed. More excitement and fun.
Thank you for letting me post and not judging me and my thoughts re:ow. I really do not interfer with them at all. I am tempted to check them out but now realize whatever they are doing they will do. Finding out just hurts me. I gave up on facebook also because the comments I read hurt.
Some included things like "I like you, you like me, who cares about anyone else".
"Never compare me to her, ever".( Like I am dog meat, what has he said about me that she considers it an insult to be compared to me.)
"I would cuddle all day with you if I could".
"I was with you all day and I miss you already".
"I love to kiss, you can kiss me anytime, I wouldn't mind".
These are grown people talking?
Well thanks for listening. I will wait to read more on the ow/om if those with more experience here are not sick of us newer ones asking the same questions.
2 x4's ok, I have an old house that needs repair and I can use the lumber!
Hugs and blessings.
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The pattern seems to be the same. Maybe I am wrong but this is what I see from my experience and that of others I know.
They seem to want zero responsibility. Not for other people or spending.
Our relationship was calm and safe. They want conflict, argument, excitement and seem to complain about but relish the stress and drama.
If you are calm, dont react but listen and consider, they dont acknowledge it, but they seem to need this on one hand.
They react badly to boundaries being set, the truth being told, responsibilty for their actions. They dont seem to consider their family, children, loss of reputation or everything that has been worked for. Selfish, yet they always say...I have worked for everyone else, now it is 'my time'. As parents and family, dont we all?
The Other person is a sounding board, agreeing and reinforcing these sentiments. They are often crude, jouvenile, ill mannered , rude, self important and self aware.
The best thing you can do is ignore the Other person, dont acknowledge, dont communicate, give them no importance, they are not important.
To react, communicate or acknowledge simple gives them power.
Take that power away.
They (other person) dont exist.
Be calm, be strong, have your own life.
They both will hate it, but dont let them affect you, take their power away. Allow this one fact to motivate your calmness and independence.
They will not know how to react, because you cannot cause a fight alone.
They crave attention for their bad behaviour, almost as if any publicity is good publicity.
They crave excitement, dont give it to them. Give them calm, stable , security, but set boundaries they can not cross.
Dont argue, react or discuss, simply listen, learn and find your way.
Remember children with a tantrum, they want firm love and be prepared to walk away from a tantrum.
Be prepared to have your own tantrum if it helps. But let them play their game alone.
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Merged these topics together.
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Brokenhearted, I am sorry to hear about you having to avoid facebook because of what gets posted. I know how that feels. Mostly what my H posts is negative venom but I'm suspicious of at least an EA. When he posts something like how much he would love to get away from here ("here" meaning me), there is one female "friend" I don't know who feels compelled to "Like" those sorts of comments from him. Might be somethin' goin' on.
For those wondering about the future damage to your children let me say as a daughter of a serial cheater (NOT an MLCer), your S will reap what they sow. There is no getting around that. I stopped all contact with my F in 1993. In 2004 I called him on the phone and spoke about 10 minutes, told him I loved him. I did that for me, not for him. My M, on the other hand, gets to be my best pal; she handled herself with honor thru her pain.
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Hi Wed2him...crazy isn't it? Seeing some other man or woman write love notes about your partner/spouse.
Sometimes it takes my breath away still.
It is crazy what they write, it is crazy that we look at what we know will hurt us.
I believe that many of us still can't wrap our minds around our spouse/partner with someone else.
Long story I will condense, came by where my partner's dad is in the nursing home. In the back of his truck is a push mower he takes to mow "her" lawn. The man has had quadruple bypass, later 2 separate operations to put stents in after bypass because bypass didn't hold but this "wonderful" ow is allowing him to push a mower around her yard. I want to scream at him, are you crazy,is she crazy letting you/having you mow? What kind of woman would not care, he still has major blockage! This to him is the The woman who "loves"him? The woman who stays out with him til the bars close? That is love like he's never felt before?!
She is indeed his drug,even if it means he puts his life at risk!
How she will give up this man doing everything for her,or he will give up his need to be told he is wonderful, to avoid looking at how bad he really feels about himself inside, I also just don't see it happening. They are both getting what they need, they are not going to give it up.
It is hard to walk away. I am trying everyday.
Hugs and blessings to all, well not the ow or om.
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Yeah and it's not just the stupid facebook postings it's the phone conversations they let you "overhear". Not necessarily to the OP. In my case, I get to hear my H on calls with buddies (not friends, in my opinion) laughing it up as if he is delighted with them, and all life in general. They discuss high times and wild living (and I'm not going to go into the details on those; if you have a shred of a sense of decency or morality to you, you'd get dry heaves). Meanwhile I am left to wonder where my H is and why this knob has been sent to replace him. Kind of like dropping off your Porsche at the mechanic's, only to be handed the key to... a mule... as your loaner ride. And so I have learned that your best friend can be an mp3 player. Truly, it has been a real life-saver because in my situation, Monster's not going ANYWHERE for a good long while. And you've got to just do like me and avoid facebook and tell friends for goodness sake stop telling me what H is posting!
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I have seen and heard what my H and his OW say to eachother on FB....at first it bothered me.
but now all I see it is EGO stroking...nothing more.
It is like 2 teenagers professing their childish "love" for eachother...total infatuation!!! Ick!
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The other night I was really irritated, and when my W came over to visit the kids I greeted her at the door with "Hey, what's up Teenage Wife?" She looked at me puzzled and then laughed and asked if she was dressed like a teenager or something. No, Honey, you're not tonight. I shouldn't have done that, should I?
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In the early days after BD, my H and OW used to have conversations between themsleves on fb, when they were together in the same room.
Insane............or just proof that they don't really talk to each other.
HUGS
x
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Thundarr,
she laughed didnt she?? dont stress over it :)
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Just wanted to start another discussion about the OP because I firmly believe that this is the worst part and the hardest part for the lbs to get past.
I think that we all go through the feelings of jealousy, inadequacy and have this taunted in our faces to the point where out self esteem has collapsed. All of this is normal but all of this we will get past.
Unfortunately I don't buy into the fact that they are just bandaids they have far too much influence in this to be insignificant however there are a lot of things that have to be remembered at the end of the day in order to truly get past them.
I wanted to pint out a few things for others to think about in order that you can move past all of the above feelings. Don't get me wrong I still have days where I would like to punch her face, but I never would as I am well above that. And also for the record I in no way feel sorry for her, nor do I feel the need to forgive her. That takes effort on my part and she is getting no effort from me.
I met the ow in a bar one night and she ushered me into the toilets because he husband was with her and she was very afraid I would make a scene. I wouldn't but she didn't knew that and I enjoyed her discomfort if I am honest. When we were in there she said lots of things that really gave me her measure. One of the most significant for me was that she said " I have had this done to me" . At no point did she say so sorry I know what it feels like or sorry at all. It essentially like she felt wholly justified.
I replied to her so did she think that made it alright then to do it to someone else. She never even looked at me or replied. She also said that my h had restored her faith in men. I replied really? That's interesting that a man who is cheating on his wife is someone you feel is restoring your faith. Wow you must have met some $h!te men in your time. Again no answer.
After this confrontation she announced publicly at their work how my h told her things that he would never dream of telling his wife. She said this in front of people who she knew would tell me.
What she really meant
So that bar :
This is all about me getting back at the woman who betrayed me and I don't care how this makes you or your family feel, this is about me and my own feelings of inadequacy and poor self esteem.
She really dislikes men for the way they had treated her, it was only the attention that she wanted.
At work. This was about being passive aggressive and announcing how important my h had made her over his own wife. She was therefore number one. Fuelling again her feelings of inadequacy and poor self worth.
She lied to my h telling him that I was making calls to her phone and how afraid she was.
This was again passive aggressive. She was angry at the confrontation and she had to get back t me.
In that confrontation I never raise my voice once. I am much taller than she is and I sat on the sink so that I was not lording over the top of her. She told me h I was right up in her face.
So, my point here in the examples is that this person has all the things that we felt after their discovery. Their feelings about themselves were passed on to us through their actions. Don't allow it !!!!!
This person is significant in the marriage breakdown in my opinion, but 50% only. But they are nothing to worry about, not better than you in any way. In fact they probably will be worse for this experience not better. Don't let that happen to you, you will rise above it and come out on top, because you can sleep soundly knowing that you lived your lives right.
OP is significant in the situation, but not in your life.
So
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Just wanted to start another discussion about the OP because I firmly believe that this is the worst part and the hardest part for the lbs to get past.
I would agree with this - the OP is the worst part of this.
Unfortunately I don't buy into the fact that they are just bandaids they have far too much influence in this to be insignificant however there are a lot of things that have to be remembered at the end of the day in order to truly get past them.
I do believe that the OP is a symptom of MLC. As I see it, the OP has to have a great deal of influence because the MLCer needs the OP as a mirror. The MLCer gives their power over to the OP in order to use the OP to work through their issues.
Don't get me wrong I still have days where I would like to punch her face, but I never would as I am well above that. And also for the record I in no way feel sorry for her, nor do I feel the need to forgive her. That takes effort on my part and she is getting no effort from me.
Completely agree with you here superdog ;) I have never felt sorry for her or a need to forgive. My H once said (very early on) that I just didn't like her :o I told him that I didn't have any feelings of like or dislike for her - she meant absolutely nothing to me. I was not going to give up any of my power to the OP.
So, my point here in the examples is that this person has all the things that we felt after their discovery. Their feelings about themselves were passed on to us through their actions. Don't allow it !!!!!
This person is significant in the marriage breakdown in my opinion, but 50% only. But they are nothing to worry about, not better than you in any way. In fact they probably will be worse for this experience not better. Don't let that happen to you, you will rise above it and come out on top, because you can sleep soundly knowing that you lived your lives right.
OP is significant in the situation, but not in your life.
Yes all of those feelings that we experienced early on we overcome but as time goes by the OP has to deal with all of those feelings - they do not overcome them. How can they? They brought this all on them selves.
I don't agree with the OP being 50% responsible for the breakdown of our marriages. Yes the OP has caused damage in our marriages but our spouses are the ones that allowed it. The OP just happened to be in the right place at the right time - if it wasn't this OP it would have been another. The OP that they pick are just as screwed up in the head as the spouse.
You are right in that they will probably be worse for this experience. The MLCer needs a mirror to work out their issues but they also need to destroy that mirror in order to come through the tunnel - this is why in my opinion the MLCer has to find an OP because they don't want to destroy their spouse. The OP is disposable. I think that the MLCer eventually realizes this as they come out of the fog and feels pretty awful about what they did to the OP, which I think makes it hard for them to break from the OP because they feel responsible.
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Hee hee my iPad changed the word physical to physical. Not what I meant at all.
I guess my point in this all was to say this is not about you, it's about them.
I care not a jot about the OP in my situation. I also no longer care what my actually did with her As it doesn't matter, the result was the same regardless.
I kinda just want to give hope to the new people here. It is the most horrible part in terms of how we view ourselves because of it, but also for people to know that these op's are not what they think they are.
My examples were merely to give an insight into the screwed up minds they have.
Strange that they don't want to destroy the spouse yet their actions do just that to begin with.
I guess the mirror is why we hear so often that they are female versions of themselves yada yada yada.
Hopefully us oldies can give some hope.
Sd
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My view would be similar to Seaching4Answers.
From RCR in one of the threads
But when Sweetheart was with the alienator I did not feel jealous—ever. I did not ever feel like he preferred her over me or that she had something (positive) to offer that I did not.
I did not feel those tings because I knew he was lost and that the crisis and his choices were not about me. Just because your wife his presently choosing an alienator does not mean she prefers that alienator. She is choosing the person out of her projections and need to escape and avoid and he is serving those needs.
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I was looking back over what I wrote - when is my heart going to catch up to my head? It frustrates me that I can see the why's, I can understand the reasons but I still get all emotional and cycle.
My head knows this is not about me but my heart doesn't :-\
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Hmmmmm just my opinion but I don't think many people instantly thought my h is in crisis and it's not about me. We all just found out that our spouses were involved with someone else, not the first thing that springs to mind to not be jealous and not about me. I think that's rear view mirror stuff.
S4A, the only answer is eventually honey. And that's the whole reason behind my opinion of what RCR writes in the quote from DGU.
The thread was to help others to the eventually stage, cos it isn't instant, we do feel jealous and we do feel and hear that our h's prefer the OP. Those words don't go away and they stay in our hearts for a long time eating away at it. Until that is our hearts catch up with our heads.
SD
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My views on the other person. They are a bandaid but a very damaging one. Probably the most damaging bandaid our MLCer get involved with during their crisis. The other person is significantly and has a big weight in the whole MLC. Lets not kid ourselves, our spouses not only had an affair but, in many cases, lived with someone else while married at us.
I've never felt jealous of OW1 or OW2. But I differ from RCR. For me Mr J (albeit his crisis self) choose to be with OW1 and OW2. Since this is his crisis and he is responsible for is choices, those choices include both OW1 and OW2. I also differ from RCR because I think, clearly, the MLCer (while in crisis) prefers the other person to us. Again, this is the MLCer crisis, that is the MLCer preference.
I hold Mr J 1000% responsible and both OW1 and OW2 responsible for their part in the whole thing. OW1 and OW2 do not get a free pass from me nor do I thing they were poor innocent things, dragged to the whole mess. They were adult women, they are responsible for their actions and choices.
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Hmmmmm just my opinion but I don't think many people instantly thought my h is in crisis and it's not about me. We all just found out that our spouses were involved with someone else, not the first thing that springs to mind to not be jealous and not about me. I think that's rear view mirror stuff.
SD, I was the opposite. My H was clearly not coping with life and had some sort of mental/emotional breakdown. It was obvious to me and the boys that this had nothing to do with me.
I couldn't understand why such a messed up man would want to complicate his life by bringing a dysfunctional woman into the mix, when he clearly couldn't leave me alone.
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It appears that many OP are co-workers of the MLCer. I have watched a situation unfold at work of a wanna be OP pursue a married man. OP has gone out of her way to flatter and spend time with the object of her fascination and with persistence and the excessive ego stroking has indeed turned his head. It makes me sick but it is interesting to see how the OP operates. I realize that the OP wants the family life of the MLCer and will do just about anything to get it WITHOUT realizing that it is the family unit that makes the magic. The MLCer on his part caves in to the flattery over time. I think it becomes an irresistible ego boost. They probably rationalize it by telling themselves that the OPs threw themselves at them.
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Great thread superdog! :)
And good post also FTT, I have seen that myself 'on more than one occasion' and 'realize' also that so many affairs happen at work! Where we spend the 'other 8 hrs' when we are not sleeping..hmmm
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Like Kikki, I always knew it was not about me. Even remember telling Mr J, that has nothing to do with me. Mr J was a mess, he himself had said several times he was depressed.
I realize that the OP wants the family life of the MLCer and will do just about anything to get it WITHOUT realizing that it is the family unit that makes the magic.
Not all other person want the family life the MLCer has. Think that may be valid to many of the original other person (in Mr J case it was true of OW1) but if the MLCer has subsequent OW/OM that have never knew the MLCer has part of a marriage, those other persons are not after the family life the MLCer had.
They may be after fame, money, or something else, but not after the married and family life. For Mr J that is OW2. And I must say OW2 has been far of a problem than OW1.
OW1 was after the great husband, the married life, the family man. Mr J, on the other hand, did not wanted to be a husband or lead a family life and OW1 left him when she finally realise that clubbing and DJing were more important to him. OW2 never knew the family man/great husband, she approves of his clubbing lifestyle and has been around for nearly 6 years.
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Ok, ill bite and offer a more Draconian view! Two possible scenarios:
- if the OP doesnt know you or that MLCer is married = MLCer fault
- if the OP knows you or knows the MLCer is married = both at fault
Both OM knew wife was married; OM1 actually knew me. I held both responsible and just as much fault if not more for messing with another man's wife. Both got confronted; both have been warned! Both have earned exactly what "karma" will bring them. I feel no pity for either of them. I view them with the same contempt and disgust as the enemy we fought in the desert. The are sub-human and deserve no quarter!
OPs should be delt with swiftly and firmly when discovered! MLCer should catch some serious LBS Monster / b!tc# Mode and feet held to the fire as long as they are engaged inappropriately with OP.
I know most will not agree with me and I expect some 2x4 attempts, but for me, this is standing up to the total disrespect the MLCer and OP is giving to the LBS. If nothing else, it shows both that you will not be disrespected and pushed around!
Also, at least in my case, I see this as protecting the MLCer. I am also protecting the family unit and the marriage from the poor decisions of the MLCer that could potentially force major life altering decisions on my part. I cant forgive a PA, so for me, busting the EAs and staying on her butt about it keeps me from crossing that bridge!
True it can drive the MLCer away or monster them, but so what? I personally dont believe it will change the outcome. The will either return or they wont and nothing we do will change that!
OBO
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The op is definitely the most difficult part to deal with and the fact that most of these Rs last so long makes it so tricky to think of them as a bandaid.
It appears that many OP are co-workers of the MLCer. I have watched a situation unfold at work of a wanna be OP pursue a married man. OP has gone out of her way to flatter and spend time with the object of her fascination and with persistence and the excessive ego stroking has indeed turned his head. It makes me sick but it is interesting to see how the OP operates. I realize that the OP wants the family life of the MLCer and will do just about anything to get it WITHOUT realizing that it is the family unit that makes the magic. The MLCer on his part caves in to the flattery over time. I think it becomes an irresistible ego boost. They probably rationalize it by telling themselves that the OPs threw themselves at them.
I absolutely relate to this, I thought my h was having an affair with someone on twitter but he told me there are much easier ways of meeting people than social networking, he had had offers! Those offers came from one of his employees, 23 just graduated. I saw the emails and she was really flirting, chat about Star Wars and films and soundtracks and an email where my h said sorry to being so maudlin last night! They were doing exactly what people who get together at work do, more and more chat that's not got anything to do with work!
I agree with anjae, some op are interested in the status, the contacts and the lifestyle that our mlcers can offer. My h and ow have benefitted from an exciting lifestyle, one that previously was about our family participating in that lifestyle. It's so sad.
Can someone explain a little more about the op being the mlcers mirror? Someone said that the mlcer often says ow is female version of them, that's something that I have thought. She has similar childhood issues, much more extreme than my hs but similar. She was anorexic because of her foo issues, mlcer knight in tarnished armour saving the broken bird anyone?
Also, I'm at the stage where ow and h live together and he has issued divorce from me. Can't see it as an affair anymore. This is mlcer addiction to op and their need for op to support them right?
Good thread here thank you.
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Just wanted to start another discussion about the OP because I firmly believe that this is the worst part and the hardest part for the lbs to get past.
Unfortunately I don't buy into the fact that they are just bandaids they have far too much influence in this to be insignificant however there are a lot of things that have to be remembered at the end of the day in order to truly get past them.
I wanted to pint out a few things for others to think about in order that you can move past all of the above feelings. Don't get me wrong I still have days where I would like to punch her face, but I never would as I am well above that. And also for the record I in no way feel sorry for her, nor do I feel the need to forgive her. That takes effort on my part and she is getting no effort from me.
I met the ow in a bar one night and she ushered me into the toilets because he husband was with her and she was very afraid I would make a scene. I wouldn't but she didn't knew that and I enjoyed her discomfort if I am honest. When we were in there she said lots of things that really gave me her measure. - That's interesting that a man who is cheating on his wife is someone you feel is restoring your faith. Wow you must have met some $hit men in your time. Again no answer.
What she really meant
So that bar :
This is all about me getting back at the woman who betrayed me and I don't care how this makes you or your family feel, this is about me and my own feelings of inadequacy and poor self esteem.
She really dislikes men for the way they had treated her, it was only the attention that she wanted.
At work. This was about being passive aggressive and announcing how important my h had made her over his own wife. She was therefore number one. Fuelling again her feelings of inadequacy and poor self worth.
This person is significant in the marriage breakdown in my opinion, but 50% only. But they are nothing to worry about, not better than you in any way. In fact they probably will be worse for this experience not better. Don't let that happen to you, you will rise above it and come out on top, because you can sleep soundly knowing that you lived your lives right.
OP is significant in the situation, but not in your life.
So
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Good Topic Superdog
I too believe the OW is more than a bandaid..at least in my sitch. She was a good friend of mine (also married 25 yrs), did not even know my H. After I read the FB messages between her and H, I found this: "In 2009, when I first found you :o, I knew you were the one for me. I waited until you were lonely, alone, and then I made my move for you to be mine."
She took advantage of my H depression...waiting in the wings 3 years before the A started. Before their first meeting, my H did not really know her..so I know she made the first attempt. It must have failed, because she wrote how she drove home, across Europe during the night crying. And then wrote "But all of that changed a month later".
Yes it was my H decision not to tell me he was having problems, it was his decision to cheat. He never had a 'wandering eye'...so she waited and pounced.
I told H, when we could still talk, how if he decided he wanted to come back and work on the marriage I would forgive him. But I said, I will not forgive her. He said, "It's not her fault". I said, "She could have said no". He said, "Well, yea, that's true" !!
She knew exactly what she wanted to do and knows exactly what she is doing now. H and I are quite well-known in the dog world. She would like to benefit and is attempting to take my place...but each time getting only the cold shoulder. ;D
Will follow this topic with great interest.
SG
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Some of you might be interested in this I posted this on my fourth thread – it is extracts from a letter that OW sent me three weeks after BD…. Fascinating insight into the mind of an affair down BPD or what.
“Dear ..
I realise that a lot has been said and written (meaning she has read H’s BD letter to me)
And I felt that it was time that I should write things from my perspective. You are under no obligation to read it but I wanted…. to cover the points in a rational manner and in a way that you could digest them at a pace you are happy with.
I would first of all like to say that I never set out to have any feelings for H ….but I am unable to ignore the force that has put us together and forged a union that has taken me completely by surprise.
I did not set out to hurt anybody and have not asked anything of H that he has not willingly given… I will support him in the situation that he needs to be in to be able to be at peace with himself whether that is with me or you………(long info about her finance and current H and her medical issues…)
……Family is one of the most important things to me and I am always the one to provide, my H and I agreed early on that we would not stay together for the sake of the children and I believe that you should stay in a marriage because you want to be with the other person…….you have to be someone that the other person wants to be with… it is not an automatic right because you have made vows…
I have always been quite private and found attention difficult……. In your H I have found someone where I am completely able to be myself…. He brings out the best in me and we are very positive together….. As much as it hurts me for my family to be broken like this…..
(she then expands on how “private” she is….and how she is leaving her H because he doesn’t want to join her “journey” of self discovery)
He is aware that his decision is a major flaw…. As much as he may wish to be he is not the right companion for me at this stage…I very much hope that I can continue my journey with H(mine)
I do not want you to think that I have taken these steps lightly or without a lot of soul searching… It is inevitable that people will be hurt but is it right (now paraphrasing because her sentence is far too long) for l one to sacrifice his (ie my H) happiness simply out of duty – it is very selfish of the other (ie ME S&D) to expect that.
If you would like to meet to discuss this then I am happy to do so.. I’m sorry if you feel that I have intruded but I am …. A helpful person and care deeply for others often to my own detriment.
I do not ask anything for me…..but I do ask this for H as it is tearing him apart and I will support him with whatever he needs.
So there you are - Affair down -possible BPD. One year on where are H and OW?
Still seeing each other but about once or twice a week. H still at home - when he is out he now returns early evening. Not been away with her anywhere near as much.... Meh!
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These "reluctant " OWs are very interesting. H initially had an email from his shutting him down as she did not want to be involved with married man. However, as time went on I found more innocent "friend" emails and pics of his band on her FB page. Kind of validated my theory that the refusal email was more of a "playing hard to get/look at what a good person I am" ploy. Anyway, interesting to see how their minds work and this thread does make me feel slightly better.
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Great thread!
I believe the OP is a necessary part of MLC in order for them to destroy everything they had so they can figure out who they are. What better way to destroy marriage and family than to have OP? That is the ultimate betrayal.
Her significance in my life is profound. Even as I know she is in some ways reprehensible, as I know she's as messed-up as H, she serves as a kind of mirror for myself. In the early days before MLC diet kicked in, she was physically the antithesis of me. In thinking I could win H back by losing weight, taking better care of myself, etc., she became a catalyst for me to begin examining me. And there is her importance. Her relationship with H made me look at me.
Just thinking about her sometimes brings up significant emotions, but I realize, now, that most of those emotions are not about her, they are about me. I must learn to address my feelings of jealousy (which are rare, now) and the anger I sometimes still have. I use her to take my own temperature regarding letting go of him. I know I haven't done that completely...but as the anger, rage, jealousy, and feelings of inadequate compared to her fade, I know first that I am healing and second that I have more work to do.
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Excellent post Medusa, just described me as well!
SG
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Great post Medusa!
OBO, I hear you on the 'respect' thing..A very tough pill to swallow. This 'MLC jedi force' with the OP is a strong one in the beginning..One that makes people 'forget' about fellow humans beings and only themselves...Try as you may to 'scare them off' but eventually if she wants 'it' she will get it'.....in my opinion. SO many broken OP's in the world looking for 'anything' ( married people or not) who won't even think about having any 'character' when our broken MLCers come knocking...
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I don't think there is a OP in my situation, well I don't know but clues point to 'not'.
Anyway, I'm not sure this would be of any help but I actually know somebody who is the OP. She constantly chucks him out, treats him like rubbish, moans and moans on Facbook and makes some incredibly embarrassing scenes on facebook because he won't introduce his daughter to him. I have lost count of how many times they have broken up. I'm not sure where he goes when she kicks him out, I actually don't know him at all.
I can tell you that I have known this woman a very long time and she has been divorced herself, has had a string of 'relationships' since her divorce and all have ended in court, police station or some form of trouble.
She is super intelligent, cute, charming, funny, generous....Has plenty of great quality but her low self esteem wrecks her life and that of others. Because of the messy relationship she has herself involved in, she now suffers panic and anxiety attacks and has heart problems (ironic!)
Anyway, today she posted this on facebook:
Would like to publicly shame my boyfriend for forgetting our 3 year anniversary. You'd better get comfy in that there doghouse boy cos you're gonna be in there for some considerable time. FED UP!
So this is just a snippet into the mind of a OP...
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Can someone explain a little more about the op being the mlcers mirror? Someone said that the mlcer often says ow is female version of them, that's something that I have thought. She has similar childhood issues, much more extreme than my hs but similar. She was anorexic because of her foo issues, mlcer knight in tarnished armour saving the broken bird anyone?
I will share my understanding of this...........
Basically, the MLCer is attracted to an OP that is similar (similar in the way that they are broken) to them in order to fix/heal the OP which in turn helps the MLCer fix/heal themselves. The MLCer doesn't want to look at themselves but they have to - the OP is a mirror, the MLCer can see themselves in the OP.
I believe that my H was looking was for OP for quite some time - he is a bit of a wallower but managed to find a OP, well actually OP found him. In 2011, H had created an online dating profile - his profile showed him as 'in a relationship' and that he was looking for 'friends'. I think this was a way that H was able to get some attention and he felt it was 'safe' because it was online. OP contacts him in November 2012 - she made contact and continued to pursue. H met her at the end of November and then again at the end of December - BD followed the second meeting. H told me that he was going to have relationship with this OP whether I liked it or not and there was nothing that I could do about it. Apparently, he thought that he was going to have two women in his life :o It became physical in February 2013 - I think it might of have been earlier than this (gut). this went on for 3-4 months - they had some kind of tiff and H didn't talk to her for a few days. When he did resume contact she told him that she slept with someone else ??? Of course this pissed off H. They broke up for about a month, started seeing each again in July 2013. In September 2013, I told H I was done. He made the decision to break up with her again so that we work things out. I asked him to send anything that she had given him back (he did with the expection of all of the cards she sent - she sends one like once a week). H told me in November 2013 that he wanted to be roommates, that too much had happened, blah, blah, blah. I think he tried to work it out so he wasn't the bad guy. I don't know who contacted who first but he starts up with OP again Dec/Jan 2014. H does not know that I know who OP is - I think he fears me knowing that he went back again. So he continues.
A little background on OP - when they met she was 49 and had just left her husband of 16 years because he wasn't giving her the sex/attention that she needed; H was looking for a 'sex toy' - match made in heaven. She also left her 10 year old daughter with her husband - MLC anyone? OP is well aware of me and has continued anyway. I know this will sound odd but I do find some comfort in the fact H went back to her, she is clearly an affair down and given their history it is doomed. H has said what a selfish person she is (mirror), that she is only out for herself (mirror) He has referred to her as a dumb wh*re and an unpaid h**ker :o Not really sure what will end this fantasy.
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Ok, ill bite and offer a more Draconian view! Two possible scenarios:
- if the OP doesnt know you or that MLCer is married = MLCer fault
- if the OP knows you or knows the MLCer is married = both at fault
Not that simple. Sometimes the other person does not know at first the MLCer is married, like Mr J OW2 (she thought he had broke with OW1 and had become single) but when the other person learns that the MLCer is married, sides with the MLCer and even helps the MLCer with lawyers, money, courts and fake addresses, like Mr J OW2 has, that type of other person is as guilty as the other person who knew the MLCer was married.
Anyway, it is always the MLCer fault and if the other person does not know they are married but after finding out stays in the picture not free pass from me to such other person. If the other person does not know the MLCer is married and when finds it out backs off, that is another mater.
I'm not certain I believe the MLCer is attracted to another person that is similar to them, that they try to fix the other person and the other person helps the MLCer fix/heal themselves. Pretty much all i can see other person doing is validating insane behaviour and prolonging MLC. In all these years since Mr J left I never notice he was fixing anything or that OW1 or OW2 were any sort of help.
Anyway, MLCers don't fix anything, don't heal and don't sort their issues while in Replay so OW/OM don't really help. They just hinder and allow the MLCer to have their way.
Not all MLCers have OW/OM.
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Got to say I agree anjae. I don't think that they learn anything or fix anything. In fact I see the ow as just something else to add to their long line of issues.
My h dropped into a rant not that long ago, how all he ever did was sort out other peoples issues. I asked whose issues cos it's definitely not mine, And he accused me of being a smart ass. he did this because it was her issues that's he was sorting out and he just realised what he had said. Looks like mrs needy became a Pain in the ass.
That's what these women are, needy. Needy for attention, needy for validation, needy and need rescued.
they may well be a mirror in terms if their issues, but neither have what it takes to fix the other.
I think it may be far more simplistic, it's another females attention they fall for, not what they look like or even who they are inside. The OP will tell the mlcer whatever they want to hear to keep the attention going.
My h has worked with this OP for 10 years but only "noticed" her when mlc hit 5 years ago. Funny that.
It's just a lot of absolute rubbish they spout to us, anything to justify their behaviour. I could find lots of things in common with someone who pretends to like the things I like just to maintain my attention. I would eventually find them out though, just like the mlcer does.
At first I was jealous, not of her per say as she has nothing I admire, however I was jealous of what my h told me she meant to him. That took a long time to get over. But get over it I did.
He was right all along they are exactly alike. He will never be like me, he is too far behind.
Sd
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I´m wondering what percent of OPs already knew the LBS in some way. Ex´s had been to house. Ex used to mention her now and again BEFORE she came and some time after she came he stopped mentioning her. That should have been a clue to me. (slow learner)
Since many are co-workers, I think it´s the lazy aspect of human nature to go with the path of least effort.
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That's what these women are, needy. Needy for attention, needy for validation, needy and need rescued.
they may well be a mirror in terms if their issues, but neither have what it takes to fix the other.
I think it may be far more simplistic, it's another females attention they fall for, not what they look like or even who they are inside. The OP will tell the mlcer whatever they want to hear to keep the attention going.
This describes H's OP quite well :o
Early on my H told me that she need help and he was helping her - he made a comment about her pending divorce and how she doesn't have her daughter (I found out later that was all her doing) and she needed someone to talk to - maybe this was just H's justifications to me about why he was getting involved.
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FTT totally agree with the lazy aspect. That's what makes me laugh about suddenly their co-worker is their soulmate. Really?
My h works in the British version of corrections and it's a male establishment. OP is a nursing assistant and there is a Really small percentage of women in the place. For as long as h has been working there I have watched these women play the room at nights out as they have such a captured audience of men. It's so bizarre, doesn't matter if they have a face like a fat bulls arse they get the guys wrapped round their little fingers. H just fell for it in the end.
They work shifts and their co workers are the only ones available to them whilst everyone else is at work. They all socialise with each other and rarely anyone else.
A couple of my friends marriages went down the tubes thanks to these women.
Sd
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S4A, how many women do you know who have problems who would need to turn to some guy to talk to. We would turn to our female friends wouldn't we. What a lot of rubbish, I got the same story.
Sd
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OW secret FB messages to H before BD (she was married at the time for 25 years.) And every day asking H if he loved her :P She is an Emotional Manipulator in the highest order...this is just a sampling.
OW - When l found you was sure you are right for me, but in that time it was pure hopeless. And even when i knew it, couldn t stop love you.
OW = i know it is dream, Just want live some normal life, with you. No more, no less
OW - I think you can do everything what do you want and I ll love you...is only one exception-never lie me, hate lies
OW - no, no lies...lies are everytime start of end...and I told you you are defintelly last man of my life.:-)
OW - you keep me alive, it is yours job:-)
OW - ..i know you won t believe ne, but I just don t have interest about sex with any other man...you are made for me:-). maybe made to order:-), made in heaven
OW - don t have already too much power survive .More and more often I m deep in depression and work only because I do it all my life, no pleasure, only custom. I made all what was possible to be with you and cant turn cours of my life . If you don't come jus kill me.
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S4A, how many women do you know who have problems who would need to turn to some guy to talk to. We would turn to our female friends wouldn't we. What a lot of rubbish, I got the same story.
Sd
X
You are right :)
Since many are co-workers, I think it´s the lazy aspect of human nature to go with the path of least effort.
Lol.........I see my H as being lazy with thus too. I do think that the OP does most of the work to keep him engaged.
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Does anyone else find it strange that we have so much information on OP? I guess it is just part of the MLC crazy - I think if it was a nonMLC affair that we wouldn't know so much about the OP. I know some of this comes from snooping but a lot of it comes directly from the MLCer.
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Not sure why Searching.... I knew my H's OW, as she was a good friend of mine. I did not have to snoop far...his secret FB name and password was in his wallet, next to his secret Viagra script :P
He was bragging to me before BD he had a secret FB name...almost like, na, na, na na...na.
Had to look after that remark. Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
SG
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Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
I hadn't heard of that before, but that would seem right.
The way they drop hints and try to get a reaction out of us, that would then (in their minds) justify their decision to leave.
Looking back, I can see this was what a small piece of paper with a love heart and a large X on it was all about. Planted for me to find.
I'm another one who knew the personality dead OW. She had been in our home (during what I now know to be the beginning of my H's rescue mode), and knew us as a family.
Also someone my H worked with.
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Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
I hadn't heard of that before, but that would seem right.
The way they drop hints and try to get a reaction out of us, that would then (in their minds) justify their decision to leave.
My H will things like concert tickets, folded paper with hotel reservations, etc on his desk. It is in plain sight but I am sure if said something about it he would act like a teenager having his space invaded. Not much of a secret.
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I´m wondering what percent of OPs already knew the LBS in some way. Ex´s had been to house. Ex used to mention her now and again BEFORE she came and some time after she came he stopped mentioning her. That should have been a clue to me. (slow learner)
Since many are co-workers, I think it´s the lazy aspect of human nature to go with the path of least effort.
My guess? Many OW/OM already knew the MLCer. Not necessarily from work, but they already knew each other.
OW1 was part of our wide cultural group, ex-girlfriend of a close work associated of ours a member of a culture board both me, Mr J, her ex-boyfriend and many of our social group were part of. She knew who we were and that we have been a couple for ages.
´
To my knowledge OW2 meet Mr J when I was already back in our hometown. She was one of the many women that were part of his MLC clubbing lifestyle.
Superdog, they learn and fix thing but not during Replay. Afterwards they do.
Does anyone else find it strange that we have so much information on OP
Don't find it strange. Unlike on a normal, secret affair, a MLC affair become very public. It is simple to find a lot about the other person. Also MLCers forget things they say to us, forget that they use work or joint email accounts for their affairs and so on. If we didn't found so much about OW/OM of a MLCer that is what I would find strange.
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My H is with someone who he worked with. She left mid last year for a new job. He once described her as a bit of an airhead when she first joined.
I don't really blame her - I blame him. I think she's a bit stupid really and just keen to be in a relationship - whatever the cost. If it wasn't her it would have been someone else. My H was just looking for attention I think and she was in the right place at that time.
I very recently found a card from her to him whilst I was tidying. It read how she was his princess and how lucky she was to have found him. How she loved him so much etc..... He was over here at the time and so I gave it back to him.
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Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
I have. But that also applies to non MLC affairs. I never looked into Mr J wallet, or mobile, or pockets so that was not how I found it. However, a long time after the affair with OW1 had been public I recalled that he had spend a train journey talking about her. What job she had, where she had attended university and several other things. At the time I did not paid attention. Only recalled afterwards.
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Don't find it strange. Unlike on a normal, secret affair, a MLC affair become very public. It is simple to find a lot about the other person. Also MLCers forget things they say to us, forget that they use work or joint email accounts for their affairs and so on. If we didn't found so much about OW/OM of a MLCer that is what I would find strange.
Anjae,
What constitutes 'public'? There are only two people that now about H - myself and his dad. It is kept a secret more or less from everyone else. The family suspects but they do not 'know'.
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Publis is public. The MLCers is out in the open with OW/OM. They attend social events together, they often live together, etc. Most MLCers affairs become public. They tend to start in the hidding but unlike other affairs soon the LBS is put aside and the MLCer is all over with OW/OM.
If you read around the threads, you will see that most of us have a spouse with a very public OW/OM. Many of or MLCers do not live with us, they live with OW/OM and have trasfered what used to be marital life to OW/OM.
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Publis is public. The MLCers is out in the open with OW/OM. They attend social events together, they often live together, etc. Most MLCers affairs become public. They tend to start in the hidding but unlike other affairs soon the LBS is put aside and the MLCer is all over with OW/OM.
If you read around the threads, you will see that most of us have a spouse with a very public OW/OM. Many of or MLCers do not live with us, they live with OW/OM and have trasfered what used to be marital life to OW/OM.
Hmmmm.........I don't know that H will make it public ??? He has no intentions of moving and thus far he has not brought her around family. I know all of this can change. I think he may be raking her around his 'new' friends but I'm not sure. If H keeps it like this it is going to last a really long time :-\
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If H keeps it like this it is going to last a really long time :-\
Not necesarally. Some of ours have been public for 4, 5, or more years with the same OW/OM. Not all MLC affairs end quick when they are in the public eye. Yes, yours may make his OW public. Or he may not. Only time will tell. As you know it is hard to predict what a MLCer is going to do next minute, let alone in a few weeks or months.
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Very interesting discussion. While we try to be dismissive of the significance of the OP, this by far is the cruelest & most painful part for the LBS. It takes a lot of time & energy to put the OP & the MLCer's "new R" in perspective. It is time & energy we could put to much better use in dealing with our own lives.
I believe the OP is a "band-aid", but that sounds almost innocent. I prefer to think of the OP as a self-medication device, more like a keg of beer or a fistful of pills. Because my MLCer already had addiction issues, I can clearly see the OW as a "fix", as medicating the pain/emptiness of MLC. This comparison also can help to de-personalize the issue of the OW for me, but as my IC reminds me, the nature of an alcoholic reaching for his drink does not involve the level of betrayal that reaching for a OW does. He knows the OW is not so easy for me to dismiss.
Basically, the MLCer is attracted to an OP that is similar (similar in the way that they are broken) to them in order to fix/heal the OP which in turn helps the MLCer fix/heal themselves. The MLCer doesn't want to look at themselves but they have to - the OP is a mirror, the MLCer can see themselves in the OP.
That's what these women are, needy. Needy for attention, needy for validation, needy and need rescued.
I believe this is the case with my H--an attraction to someone broken in the same places & an attempt to rescue. From addiction literature--"if you can't fix yourself, maybe you can fix someone else". But I agree with Anjae. No one is really fixing anyone in these dysfunctional Rs. My hope is that in looking at his OW my guilt-ridden H sees his own despicable behavior literally mirrored in her & what she has done & eventually becomes disgusted with her as well as himself.
I think... it's another females attention they fall for, not what they look like or even who they are inside. The OP will tell the mlcer whatever they want to hear to keep the attention going.
It's just a lot of absolute rubbish they spout to us, anything to justify their behaviour. I could find lots of things in common with someone who pretends to like the things I like just to maintain my attention. I would eventually find them out though, just like the mlcer does.
The MLCer has an addiction to the adoration, approval, & sexual attention of the OP. Despite the stereotype of the young, beautiful OW of the MLC, it certainly is not the case in my situation & not of too many I read here. And while sex can be an important factor, I think even more powerful is the adoration & approval, the validation of the MLC mindset. The capacity of the OP to keep up the approval/validation is quite amazing & demonstrates their own insecurity & poor self-esteem. My H's OW was around long before BD; it is hard to understand why she has hung on for so long & has (apparently) demanded so little. My MLCer seems entranced by the adoration; what will it take to break that trance?
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Very interesting discussion. While we try to be dismissive of the significance of the OP, this by far is the cruelest & most painful part for the LBS.
The MLCer has an addiction to the adoration, approval, & sexual attention of the OP
With the writing RCR has done, I think there is recognition about the OP being the most painful.....RCR writes that directly in regard to infidelity.
Infidelity
Though this is merely a symptom of the Dis-Ease, it is often the most painful and public.
The part that seems to get overlooked with the alienator is they are part of the regression that is MLC. That's why some alienators might be a boyfriend/girlfriend from a long time ago......or someone significantly younger than the MLCer.
From RCR
MLC is a crisis. It is specific to the individual in MLC; it is not about the spouse and it is not about the alienator. The alienator is just a convenient and willing player on stage.
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Publis is public. The MLCers is out in the open with OW/OM. They attend social events together, they often live together, etc. Most MLCers affairs become public. They tend to start in the hidding but unlike other affairs soon the LBS is put aside and the MLCer is all over with OW/OM.
If you read around the threads, you will see that most of us have a spouse with a very public OW/OM. Many of or MLCers do not live with us, they live with OW/OM and have trasfered what used to be marital life to OW/OM.
Hmmmm.........I don't know that H will make it public ??? He has no intentions of moving and thus far he has not brought her around family. I know all of this can change. I think he may be raking her around his 'new' friends but I'm not sure. If H keeps it like this it is going to last a really long time :-\
Hi Searching.
From one of my journals and sorry, did not write down where I found it (could be from HS website):
"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse. The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.
The hormonal highs in an A kept secret can continue indefinitely IF THE OW ACCEPTS THAT AND LOWERS HER STATUS. This type is a lifer.
But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.
Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public. It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."
So the fact that you know and his father knows...it is not secret. It will not be long before others know. If they are eating out in a restaurant or out in public elsewhere, someone will run into them, someone will see them cuddling or hand holding in public. It will eventually happen. Unless they both meet in a cave everytime ::)
SG
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My hope is that in looking at his OW my guilt-ridden H sees his own despicable behavior literally mirrored in her & what she has done & eventually becomes disgusted with her as well as himself.
And while sex can be an important factor, I think even more powerful is the adoration & approval, the validation of the MLC mindset. The capacity of the OP to keep up the approval/validation is quite amazing & demonstrates their own insecurity & poor self-esteem. My H's OW was around long before BD; it is hard to understand why she has hung on for so long & has (apparently) demanded so little. My MLCer seems entranced by the adoration; what will it take to break that trance?
Heart Tattoo could not agree with you more. I have read and seen in public the "adoration OW gives H" When friends witness it, it makes them shake their heads (poor H) My H's OW capacity to keep it up, I believe, is that she is also a broken record. I believe they bounce off each other, reflecting their insecurities and countering with validations. At times it seems to be a nonstop interaction.
SG
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Hi SG,
Had to look after that remark. Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
SG
When I have discussed my sitch with my SIL she says as an outsider looking in she can see a lot of the things xW was doing was for show to catch my attention. Things were left out easily for me to find, that way if I react it would cause a big argument , big enough to feed the monster for days. Yes xW would be in the wrong but how dare I go through her stuff.
Yesterday was a good example. We have phone chargers in most rooms, xW put her phone to charge on the table next to me then left the room. She comes back 10 minutes later to check the phone, sends a text and sets the phone down and leaves the room. I was thinking why not just take the phone with you instead of trying to tempt me.
So yes, some want to get caught, some just want to taunt and rub it in your face.
Lanzo
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Hi Lanzo
I think with the password and secret name in wallet...he was not aware I would look, because I never in the 15 yrs before BD snooped.
BUT...now that you brought up leaving the cell phone available...mine did the same on many of his overnight visits (for business) after BD. One time I sneaked a peak while he slept, he never wakes up easy, so it was a not a problem.
But many times he would text, leave it charging in the living room and then go outside for 10 minutes. I think it was a test for me...so I would read, get mad and give him the satisfaction that leaving me was the right thing to do.
As hard as it was, I never touched it. One time when he was here and left the phone charging in the guest bedroom where I made him sleep...he went to take a shower, so I quickly read that mornings text.
OW was throwing a fit, as H was not texting her every waking moment. Asked what was going on at the house. Text was in large letters...so screaming. She was threatening him that she was through!! Such drama :D
SG
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While we try to be dismissive of the significance of the OP, this by far is the cruelest & most painful part for the LBS.
With the writing RCR has done, I think there is recognition about the OP being the most painful.....RCR writes that directly in regard to infidelity.Infidelity Though this is merely a symptom of the Dis-Ease, it is often the most painful and public.
From RCR
MLC is a crisis. It is specific to the individual in MLC; it is not about the spouse and it is not about the alienator. The alienator is just a convenient and willing player on stage.
Yes, RCR has acknowledged this & yes, in the big picture the OP is only a prop for the crisis, & yes, the best stance of the LBS is to ignore the alienator, consider them inconsequential, dismiss them from our minds. What I am trying to say is that, while we keep telling ourselves it isn't personal, it feels intensely personal. Literature is full of the romance of the OP. Society almost legitimizes the OP as soothing the "unhappiness" of the WAS. So the messages of the inadequacy & blame for the LBS are very hard to overcome & require so much energy, energy that we need initially just to survive & in the long term, to thrive.
There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly. It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.
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There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly. It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.
Very well said. Somehow our hearts and heads align to help is move forward, but until that happens, we suffer.
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Lots of interesting bits here--
"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.
My H made a bizarre comment in our early attempt at MC "Maybe if you get caught you can try to put your marriage back together, but if you don't that isn't possible". Yet, unlike the stereotype of "wanting to get caught" my H was scrupulous about secrecy. A lifetime of trust certainly worked in his favor, but he left not a crumb of a clue. So was that comment "blaming" me for not catching him? Or was it the reason he was so careful; he didn't want to get caught? Or, hmmm, probably both?
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse. The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.
Absolutely. This is, I believe, my H's infidelity in a nutshell. Because of the man he is, he had to have had feelings of guilt from the beginning & has continued to have. This guilt caused him to project that I no longer loved him, didn't even "like" him, because how could I with what he was doing (even though I wasn't aware). So validation for his "goodness" had to come from the alienator & she knew how to play that. Even now, many years after their infidelity began & 16 months post-BD this is his rationalization--"I found someone who likes me..."
But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.
This is exactly what makes most MLC affairs so long lasting & also what makes them feel so personal to the LBS. It isn't "just sex" pursued on impulse. It is a R pursued to insinuate into the marital dynamic & eventually replace it. Very hard not to take that personally.
Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public. It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."
The pressure of the OW is something that can eventually become the wedge that breaks the MLCer's "new life". My H's OW has put up with years of secrecy & playing by H's "rules" of how & when their R went public, & I believe that "status" is a huge part of this for her. Her life has been about "upgrading" & she has legitimate accomplishments along that line. I think she sees my H as an "upgrade" & she is surely getting tired of not having all of the rewards ($ & commitment) that demonstrate that upgrade to everyone else. While her pressure will also put pressure on me, eventually I think it will be that wedge that exposes the shallowness of her adoration & approval.
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Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public.
Her life has been about "upgrading" & she has legitimate accomplishments along that line. I think she sees my H as an "upgrade" & she is surely getting tired of not having all of the rewards ($ & commitment) that demonstrate that upgrade to everyone else. While her pressure will also put pressure on me, eventually I think it will be that wedge that exposes the shallowness of her adoration & approval.
HeartTattoo....
your sitch is where mine is now. I can fully identify with your statement above in relation to my H's OW. My H is an upgrade to her "farm hand/truck driving" ex H. He is prominent in a world that she wants to be a part of.
Unfortunately...the respect shown to both of them, from their peers, is absent. More like the cold shoulder at many events. And no one...acknowledges her presence even when she stands next to him. ;)
I am hoping this will help H see, that he is not going to advance farther up the ladder with her, but will reverse in the opposite direction. The dog world and his judging is the only thing he has to lift him up at the moment. She will hinder that process. I hope it will happen, sooner than later, help to wake him up.
SG
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Hi Searching.
From one of my journals and sorry, did not write down where I found it (could be from HS website):
"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse. The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.
The hormonal highs in an A kept secret can continue indefinitely IF THE OW ACCEPTS THAT AND LOWERS HER STATUS. This type is a lifer.
But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.
Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public. It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."
So the fact that you know and his father knows...it is not secret. It will not be long before others know. If they are eating out in a restaurant or out in public elsewhere, someone will run into them, someone will see them cuddling or hand holding in public. It will eventually happen. Unless they both meet in a cave everytime ::)
SG
Thank You SG ;)
H does not really bring her around our area - they go do things that aren't too close by and they stay in hotels. I do believe at some point she will start to pressure him more and more. I recall over the summer H telling me that she had a fit because she was jealous of me ::) I can't imagine that has changed any.
H has not been inviting me to family gatherings anymore - not sure why but I know it is causing a stir with the family who suspects. Next month we normally go to his mom and stepdads for a weekend; I am assuming that I will not be invited but I am wondering if H is going to take her with him. It is a 50-50 chance - if he does take here then the cat will be out of the bag - his mom will tell everyone in the family. I know that this may need to happen but I am dreading it.
There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly. It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.
Very true ..............the emotional side of this is exhausting.
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse. The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.
Absolutely. This is, I believe, my H's infidelity in a nutshell. Because of the man he is, he had to have had feelings of guilt from the beginning & has continued to have. This guilt caused him to project that I no longer loved him, didn't even "like" him, because how could I with what he was doing (even though I wasn't aware). So validation for his "goodness" had to come from the alienator & she knew how to play that. Even now, many years after their infidelity began & 16 months post-BD this is his rationalization--"I found someone who likes me..."
I can see this in my H as well. I recently gave the cat a bath and of course the cat was annoyed after and went to hide under the bed - H told me 'now you know what it feels like to have someone mad at you all of the time' - I almost laughed at him ::)
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Try as you may to 'scare them off' but eventually if she wants 'it' she will get it'.....in my opinion. SO many broken OP's in the world looking for 'anything' ( married people or not) who won't even think about having any 'character' when our broken MLCers come knocking...
Agree Rookie.....it's a crap shoot at best! Still; I won't set back and watch it happen so I stay on it anyway. You're correct; a lot of broken people but also a lot of entitlement happy that just don't give a crap about anyone else! And not just MLC either. 10-15 years ago women had a code of honor (at least my wife and all her friends did); wouldn't even look at a married man. Now days, it seems like the more established and longer you have been married, the more they try to pursue you. It's nuts!
Had to look after that remark. Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it. Anyone heard of that before?
When I have discussed my sitch with my SIL she says as an outsider looking in she can see a lot of the things xW was doing was for show to catch my attention. Things were left out easily for me to find, that way if I react it would cause a big argument , big enough to feed the monster for days. Yes xW would be in the wrong but how dare I go through her stuff.
Yesterday was a good example. We have phone chargers in most rooms, xW put her phone to charge on the table next to me then left the room. She comes back 10 minutes later to check the phone, sends a text and sets the phone down and leaves the room. I was thinking why not just take the phone with you instead of trying to tempt me.
So yes, some want to get caught, some just want to taunt and rub it in your face.
Mine used OM#1 phone number as the password to her iphone/ipad to taunt me; she admitted that. Also admitted she knew I would look and she didn't bother deleting the the conversation between her and OM#2. So yes, she did want me to see and she admitted she was hoping I would get pissed enough to boot her out so she wouldn't have to be the bad guy.
As far as leaving her stuff out; she knows I will look if she leaves it down. In fact, after EA#2 was discovered, I'll take and look at her stuff any time I want now. I took her right to privacy away; told her if she didn't like it then go file for D and get out of my house! I pay for that phone and it is in my name anyway so she can stuff it.
I know this doesn't follow the traditional teachings here but anyone who has read any of my postings on infidelity knows this is a boundary and sore spot with me; I wont tolerate the disrespect and she knows that! She has a choice to leave but she stays and endures my boundary / rules so it is what it is!
OBO
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Mine used OM#1 phone number as the password to her iphone/ipad to taunt me; she admitted that. Also admitted she knew I would look and she didn't bother deleting the the conversation between her and OM#2. So yes, she did want me to see and she admitted she was hoping I would get pissed enough to boot her out so she wouldn't have to be the bad guy.
As far as leaving her stuff out; she knows I will look if she leaves it down. In fact, after EA#2 was discovered, I'll take and look at her stuff any time I want now. I took her right to privacy away; told her if she didn't like it then go file for D and get out of my house! I pay for that phone and it is in my name anyway so she can stuff it.
I know this doesn't follow the traditional teachings here but anyone who has read any of my postings on infidelity knows this is a boundary and sore spot with me; I wont tolerate the disrespect and she knows that! She has a choice to leave but she stays and endures my boundary / rules so it is what it is!
OBO
I find it amazing when reading topics on this forum, how the WH/WH feel they are entitled to do and act as they want, while living with their S.
My H was here 2 months after BD...I set boundries within the first few days and he held to them 99% of the time. If he broke one in my presence, I got up and left the room without comment.
I am sorry we are all here....we should be enjoying the lives we had planned on having, without the MLC crap thrown on our heads.
SG
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The universe works in strange ways :o
Today, H sends me an email of a picture that he saw on this website that he frequents. I know that he spends time on there and that he posts pictures of where he goes and what he is doing. I haven't looked at it before today. H sent me the link to the website so I decided to look around. Here is a post that I found from him about OW:
The chick is a bit crazy, now that is not necessarily a bad thing but
in this case it is a little much. Keeping watch while one sleeps,
insanely jealous, super emotional menses, etc…. Not deal breakers in
and of themselves but combined make for a situation not worth
investing in.
I couldn't believe that I came across this!
Wow!
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My H is a crafty one, OW is too. She is the female version of him. Actually when he told me about her (just met her he said, lie, they were already entangled shown by the constant texting back and forth and calls 2 mos prior him telling me). I met this SGT she is a lesbian, just like me, likes camping, hiking, etc. I was thinking of inviting her and her partner to Thanksgiving, 3 days before Thanksgiving he was living at her place. UMMM, wonder where this partner is? LIES, LIES, LIES. Evidently she told him he makes an ugly woman, but a pretty man, and if she was into guys she would definitely "do" him. So he said she calls him "prettyface". I am going with this whole this is a cleverly crafted lie, that he had intention of continuing after he came home. For whatever reason he decided to abandon his family and move in with her.
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The universe works in strange ways :o
Today, H sends me an email of a picture that he saw on this website that he frequents. I know that he spends time on there and that he posts pictures of where he goes and what he is doing. I haven't looked at it before today. H sent me the link to the website so I decided to look around. Here is a post that I found from him about OW:
The chick is a bit crazy, now that is not necessarily a bad thing but
in this case it is a little much. Keeping watch while one sleeps,
insanely jealous, super emotional menses, etc…. Not deal breakers in
and of themselves but combined make for a situation not worth
investing in.
I couldn't believe that I came across this!
Wow!
Here is another post from H:
Creepiest thing heard this weekend: “You looked so peaceful when I was watching you sleep.”
OW is a nut job! How could he leave me for this woman?!
It is so sad that he only has internet friends to share his 'adventures with".
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He didn't leave you for her, he is messed up in the head. For some reason I keep thinking about Steven King's book "Misery"......
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He didn't leave you for her, he is messed up in the head. For some reason I keep thinking about Steven King's book "Misery"......
Thanks Blindsided13 ;)
I just can't get over how this kind of fell in my lap. The first post was very recent. I guess it will just have to play itself out but I can't believe that he would get involved with someone like this.
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Here is another post from H:
Creepiest thing heard this weekend: “You looked so peaceful when I was watching you sleep.”
OW is a nut job! How could he leave me for this woman?!
It is so sad that he only has internet friends to share his 'adventures with".
Hi Searching...my husband did not go near a computer until OW. He is also living his life on FB...they sign on simultaneously ...
The comment above about watching while sleeping...here is one from my files, OW to H
"I was yesterday so sleepy, as I m , when you gentle love me:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))aslept several times on mobile:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))you are better and better-you can do it by sms:-)))"
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
SSG
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With the writing RCR has done, I think there is recognition about the OP being the most painful.....RCR writes that directly in regard to infidelity.
Infidelity
Though this is merely a symptom of the Dis-Ease, it is often the most painful and public.
RCR did wrote about the other person being the most painful thing in a MLC but my view is that the big damage an alienator has is downplayed and put along the same things like drinking, gambling and so on = and addiction. And it some cases the other person is an addiction, but it is very different from a substance or a thing. It is a person, that is a totally different level.
The part that seems to get overlooked with the alienator is they are part of the regression that is MLC. That's why some alienators might be a boyfriend/girlfriend from a long time ago......or someone significantly younger than the MLCer.
From RCR
MLC is a crisis. It is specific to the individual in MLC; it is not about the spouse and it is not about the alienator. The alienator is just a convenient and willing player on stage.
Yes the other person is part of the regression and a willing player. Often an eager one. But is is about the spouse. Not the individual person that is the spouse, but the position of being the spouse. They do not turn agains the butcher, the school teatcher, the banl clerk, they turn agains the spouse.
So, it is not personal because it is not about person X or Z is the spouse, but it is specific, it targets the spouse.
The MLCer has an addiction to the adoration, approval, & sexual attention of the OP. Despite the stereotype of the young, beautiful OW of the MLC, it certainly is not the case in my situation & not of too many I read here. And while sex can be an important factor, I think even more powerful is the adoration & approval, the validation of the MLC mindset.
Agree, it is much more about the adoration, approval and validation of whatever the MLCer wants, crazier it may be, than about sex.
The chick is a bit crazy, now that is not necessarily a bad thing but
in this case it is a little much. Keeping watch while one sleeps,
insanely jealous, super emotional menses, etc…. Not deal breakers in
and of themselves but combined make for a situation not worth
investing in.
You longer have any doubt that your husband is/was out of his mind, do you? ::) ::) ::)
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The chick is a bit crazy, now that is not necessarily a bad thing but
in this case it is a little much. Keeping watch while one sleeps,
insanely jealous, super emotional menses, etc…. Not deal breakers in
and of themselves but combined make for a situation not worth
investing in.
You longer have any doubt that your husband is/was out of his mind, do you? ::) ::) ::)
He is batsh*t crazy! I guess it is going to continue getting worse :o