Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Synicca on September 05, 2011, 01:11:02 PM
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I would like to see our thoughts on handling a PA vs. EA.
I feel that most women are able to handle a PA more then they can a EA..I feel this way.
It's really hard to get a grip on the idea my H "loves" OW, rather then I know he is having sex with her..
What are your thoughts??
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In MLC, I believe most PA's are also EA's. They are not strictly physical and maybe why they take so long to get rid of. I really only have read a few stories on here of spouses with just physical affairs that may have multiple OW with no real emotional connection. I think I read in one of the articles that most affairs in MLC are a combo of both a physical and emotional attachment. My H's affair was both.
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I totally agree...When my H told me He LOVED OW...more then he ever thought he could love another person.
That HURT, more then the fact that I knew he was having sex with her.
but MLC aside...I wonder why that is for me.
maybe because to be emotionally tied to someone else is harder to let go of. If H really loved OW, then maybe that means
I wouldnt have a chance of getting my M back?? if it was just about sex..then who cares.
sheesh! That sounds insane when I type it....
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I don't know if this thread deals only with women, but I assume it does not hence the title.
Men definitely have a bigger problem with PA's than EA's, and I think we have all probaby had an EA whether we realize it or not. But, I think the reason that men have a bigger problem with PA's is due to one simple thing - penetration. I don't mean to embarrass anyone, and I'm having to type this fast, but research has shown that when a woman has unprotected sex with a man then biologically he becomes part of her forever. The mix of genes causes a chemical reaction in the woman that leads to a bonding of sorts. This isn't always perceptible, but there is evidence to support that it exists at some level. Even when a woman has protected sex, the release of bonding hormones (oxytocin is one I think) may also cause the woman to become bonded with the male.
Men, on the other hand, do not have an influx of the woman's DNA and as such do not undergo a biological change. Perhaps this is evolutionary to some degree, as male animals often tend to impregnate multiple females. Whether or not there exists within humans the propensity to mimic the animal kingdom in this way is a matter for debate. What is pretty much a given is that the biological reactions to sex are vastly different between males and females. Where this leaves us is pretty much up to each individual person, but I do think it goes lengths to explain at least why men are more disturbed by a PA. Perhaps something evolutionary inside men cues them to the fact that the female is physically bonded to them, so even if an EA exists it doesn't threaten his "territory" the way a PA does.
I hope this post makes sense as D10 and S6 were arguing in the background. I may have to edit it later if it doesn't.
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It hurts more that my H let another woman (or women) into his heart and mind.
Maybe it's just me.
L
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Thundarr, I get that...made total sense to me...I know my H has said that it was very difficult for him to get over my PA
because of that very reason.
Limit, I am the same way!!
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In MLC a PA is almost always an EA. With OW1 the EA upset me a lot, even if my husband never told me he loved her. He just told me she was what he needed at the time. He also told me it wasn't because of the sex.
With OW2 I longer cared much about it (EA/PA). I knew it was an illusion. No idea if he "loves" or "is in love" with OW2. We are NC since she come along.
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I think the EA is harder, but this is from a woman's perspective. I found it extremely offensive and insensitive that my H would be in constant contact with Spin ow even tho' I told him point blank how much it hurt me. That my H would discuss personal stuff with this creature when he would never open up to me, was a severe betrayal in my book.
If he had just "banged the b*tch" to borrow from RCR, I could have tolerated it better. Afterall, I grew up with the mindset that women who let themselves be used for sex were 2nd class citizens to be looked down on, ridiculed and despised. She would be no more than trash. But to elevate another person to the level of confidante and confessor, that's investing a lot of yourself in this person. That is saying to onlookers, this person is worthy.
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The term you are looking for is "Emotionally bonded" which is what the MLC affair always seems to be..... mine also claims "It's not like that!" When I say "You f'd her this weekend, cuz that's what you do!" He HATES that I "describe" the act...... says "Why do you do that? I hate it! It sounds so gross!!" and I say "Because that is the TRUTH... this is NOT a movie, and it's not just going to go away.... you put your part A into her part B until one of you cries "uncle" and it IS gross, but it's the ACTUAL TRUTH!!"
No description from him of what it "is like" (regarding his declaration that "it's not like that!". It would interesting to find out. He did say once that he goes there to "feel free".... which I gather means free of responsibilities.... like, when he's there, he's not in his REAL life, so he can pretend to himself that he doesn't have kids, no bills, no in-laws, etc..... I guess he can just melt into HER life, her friends, her kid, her problems and his magically disappear. That is my supposition...
When he's with us, he has to face all of his unhappiness with how his life isn't perfect and he doesn't make enough money and we don't have a nice house any more and college is looming for our son and we're getting older... I guess OW at 29 still has her life ahead of her, and if she weren't the actual person she is, would still have time to turn her life completely around.... time to save for retirement... time to go back to school for a better job.... time for more kids....time to buy a house.... but she will never have or do those things.... it's her youth that is his fantasy. He has said that he thinks it is her youth that attracts him, cuz he doesn't like her looks, personality, tone of voice, cooking (when she deigns to cook, that is) or her family, mind or opinions! :o :o In another breath he tells me that "Just so you know, youth isn't everything....and she's super immature.... " :o :o
Her head must spin when he's there..... he claims he lies more to her now than he does to me.... :o :o :o YAY!! I WIN!! I've washed my hands of their relationship..... tired of protesting against it, as I have NO influence on whether he can stop it or not... he will when he's ready and able and not a moment sooner.
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Spooky....
I've just read today, the following extract: ...study on 511 college men and women....asking if it would be more distressing or upsetting to imagine your mate having sexual intercourse with someone else...or...forming a deep emotional attachment to someone else. The study findings showed...a man...likely....find idea of your mate having intercourse...more distressing. ....Women...found idea of their mate forming a deep emotional attachment ...more upsetting.
I feel more betrayed there is EA as well as PA but in that order.
Sil x
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As a woman, the PA bothers me more than the EA. I think we share emotional intimacy with many people in our lives. You should hear me and my girlfriends talk. ;D
I don't expect one person to meet all of my emotional needs. But a spouse is the ONLY one that we share our bodies with and that felt deeply intimate, private and special. That is gone forever for me. The PA is definitely the issue that I feel I will not be able to get past. (Also, the mind movies are hell on earth :'()
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oh yah...BN, I get what you mean about the mind movies...I try not to think about that at all costs...
(to bad that just made me think of it) ugh!!
but, I just change the channel, LOL! when I was a kid and I had bad dreams, I would tell my mom about them and say, "but, I'm ok mom, I just changed the channel" :) She didnt understand what I meant until I said "well, I just think of something happy and it goes away" :D
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As a woman, the PA bothers me more than the EA. I think we share emotional intimacy with many people in our lives. You should hear me and my girlfriends talk. ;D
I don't expect one person to meet all of my emotional needs. But a spouse is the ONLY one that we share our bodies with and that felt deeply intimate, private and special.
BN - ditto for me. I must be an unusual female, because I also find the PA more heartwrenching.
I'm not saying that I find the EA easy - not at all, just that this cuts to my core more ....
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I wonder why...since I am like a total freak when it comes to why the mind works the way it does. LOL!!
I think I am gonna look this up...:D
( I bet it has something to do with the fact that a woman is more...(emotional) ?????? :)
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ok, I found 3 so far....very interesting...has nothing to do with MLC...but same feelings even though.
#1 http://www.surviveinfidelityhq.com/an-emotional-affair-is-worse-than-a-physical-one/
#2 http://nitawriter.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/what-kills-a-marriage/
#3 http://www.cheating-spouse-alert.com/emotional-affair-vsphysical.html
Still looking up ones on why some women have a harder time with EA's..but I can see why in just these 3 articles
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As a woman, the PA bothers me more than the EA. I think we share emotional intimacy with many people in our lives. You should hear me and my girlfriends talk. ;D
I don't expect one person to meet all of my emotional needs. But a spouse is the ONLY one that we share our bodies with and that felt deeply intimate, private and special. That is gone forever for me. The PA is definitely the issue that I feel I will not be able to get past. (Also, the mind movies are hell on earth :'()
Ditto for me too.
I am also upset about the emotional affair because H has been so blase about talking to all the women at work. I am upset because I wrote him a letter 2 years ago when I noticed him being emotionally distant to me. So it's something I brought to his attention and he CHOSE to ignore it and continue to open up emotionally to the women at work including Hairdresser ow.
I didn't know why he didn't want to sit up and chat with me like he used to until all this came out in the open 5 months ago. I felt very betrayed but the fact that he could take me away for a weekend and then just drop me like a hot potato and go bond himself with OW makes me sick. I feel humiliated.
The kids also say she is unattractive and annoying. I get that H had emotional needs he wanted filled but it never occurred to him that I also needed that and if perhasp he paid me some more attention he may have got what he wanted to??? No, he's just thrown himself at this needy person and ruined the bond we had.
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It's always made sense to me that the PA included an EA. I know for a fact that the EA began for my H before the PA with the same OW. This was why it was so difficult for him to let go of her. I suspect that with an MLCer most PA include an EA component. Many are trying to save the OW. (knight in shining armor thing). (sorry guys, I don't know about the OM so much). At a certain point I saw messages H "secretly" sent to her on FB. They were odd little "love notes." I didn't know what they were until after BDs, but in hindsight I knew what the odd messages were about and to whom they were directed. Those messages and other things that indicated an emotional connection still hurt my heart more than the physical affair. Those will be the last pieces that I am able to move past.
He does now know that the emotional connection was not real, and is able to see her and it for what it was, but I also know it felt like something real to him at the time. That does still hurt, but not as much as it did before.
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I find the EA more upsetting. I don't like the PA either but I think the EA is more upsetting. When my H admitted to the EA, he had just left me. I guess the thought that I could be replaced, just like that, after all of our years together, was really really painful. Knowing I would have to have really deep feelings involved to just leave my life behind, plays into how I feel about my H having an EA. If it were only "sex" I think I could get past it easier - having to compete (for lack of a better word) with feelings that are strong enough to make my H leave us behind is gut wrenching to say the least.
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Hi everyone I'm back from Wildwood. EA and PA both suck.
Luckily I am finally seeing it for what it is. He doesn't have a game plan and is running around trying to be "not depressed."
I just saw him. H came over to say "Hi" and "How was our trip?"
Pouring rain here. We stood in driveway talking. Then we came inside... He's now unemployed. True happiness. Talking about going back to school for medical coding. LOL LOL I know people who do that and they are very good at it. H wouldn't be. He can't work a computer well at all and he never was organized about things. That would be a bad mix H as a medical coder.
Anyway I try and think of the PA like when I was in college living in a dorm. Everyone was sleeping around and then breaking up a few months later. Didn't matter. I wasn't crying when someone broke up with me. if I broke up with someone it didn't matter either. like ' who cares'
I am now totally convinced that H is taking the vicodin, drinking wine in the daytime and ACTING as if he has a new life.
He's not pretending to be happy. He's not bringing her around his family or my kids. I can tell from our encounters that he is NOT RIGHT IN THE HEAD! Whatever emotional attachment he has with Bowser is transient and shallow.
When he wakes up he will see all of this and realize why people were looking at him like :o :o :o :o
But until then he is just a confused,depressed,frightened know- it- all trying to get through the day. If sharing an apt w/ an ugly,desperate, damaged under achiever is a rush for junior then so be it. Time will tell. God is working on him!
Oh and the Ds told me today that she must smoke a lot because all the ashtrays in her apt are overflowing and piled up high. H doesn't smoke. LOL LOL They also told me that time they met her (the only time) back in March, she smells like a wet dog!!! LOL WTF? Poor H He must be so messed up in his head. Really. You can't make this s**t up.
I knew they told me the apt was a mess but come on you have a cute guy living with you. He's married and you still took him in. Can you empty the ashtray and not smell? :o :o
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WELCOME BACK Mamma!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Always nice to get your take on things, right along with all that wonderful humor! :)
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I met Mamma in Wildwood and she's a hoot!! There aren't enough hours in the day for us to talk, LOL!! Her daughters are both beautiful, just like her.... just wish we had more time to bond....
Great description of your husband and his happy new life, Mamma.....
I still think about the story your sister told you about meeting her husband at the divorce attorney's and his attorney saying "Ok, well let's talk about this divorce!" and her husband saying "DIVORCE!!???? I don't want a divorce!! I've been in love with her for 25 years!" and his attorney saying "I think we're done here...." :o :o :o :o
Just really strikes me as FUNNY!!! Glad to have you back on the forum.... it's been too serious around here while you were on vacay, LOL!!
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Okay
I'm going to be a nature nerd hehehehehehe but that makes sense doesn't it...not only in terms of what we know as males and females but biologically.
Biologically a MALE doesn't want anyone to claim his reproductive partner cuz he needs to get all her viable eggs and thus pregnancies...thus sex is a threat
A FEMALE wants a male to stick around....be committed...to help in investment in her offspring....thus lack of emotional attachment is a threat
It's all about the survival of offspring...and here is where MLC totally DEFIES even BIOLOGY..because RARELY in the natural world would a MALE or FEMALE abandon there own offspring and threaten there survival...and certainly not to invest in another's offspring....but they do in MLC :o :o :o :o
MLC nonsense I tell ya
and that makes no sense at all
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Awsome LG...I wish I could have made a special trip to NY and had a visit with both you guys!! :)
Buggy, I actually have considered that whole way of thinking....if you look at the way that "animals" in the wild are.
It would make total sense to see it that way. BUT, MLC has no bounderies of any kind. UGH!! :)
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Syn , But MLC does have boundaries If you need to be empathetic, kind, considerate, thoughtful,outgoing,informative,honest and loyal they are not going there. Like they have a shock collar on them if they cross over into those areas.... ' zap!
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LMAO!! ooohhh, yah I guess your right!! forgot about THOUGHS bounderies...hehehehe ;)
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Welcome back Mamma!!! Lord, how we missed your sense of humor!!
Buggy, I think you and I are on similar pages with this. Females are biologically programmed not only to care for their offspring, but to keep the male around to protect the flock. Males are programmed to protect their reproductive partner from other males.
Does that fact maybe tie in to how MLCs seem to happen to males and females as they near the end of their reproductive lives somehow? Hmmm.....
I have often pondered how powerful the force must be that took my W not only from me but from the little ones. She made the comment the other day that she would not want them with anyone other than me, and this was less than a minute after telling me she didn't give a _hit about me. It seemed like two different brain functions were firing at different times there. One was MLC, the other SEEMED to be the real her speaking. Who knows. For all I know, I may have them backwards.
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Just had a thought.
Maybe the EA doesn't cut to the quick quite so much in this instance BECAUSE I know it's not what we had.
H's such a mess, he tells me often he isn't ready to have a relationship with anybody - it's all so superficial and shallow and they know it.
Now, if he was in his right mind, and came to me and announced that he was very sorry, but that he'd met the woman of his dreams, (oh that's right - I was the woman of his dreams!) then I'd be feeling differently about it all in some way....
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As far as I'm concerned EAs are deep friendships and the sad fact is that my H never had one, except possibly with me but I am not totally sure, until he met OW. I have had lots of EAs, even with men, but none of them ever threatened my M. I am not uncomfortable with my H having people, even women, to whom he goes for support and advice, even if he discloses intimate details about our life. It is only when that R crosses into actual intimacy and betrayal that it matters to me. And I could even forgive a PA (not hundreds of them, but one, maybe two, I don't know where the line is)--and, I did, early in our marriage, as long as there was no EA involved, it's the two together that make it hard.
But, the real kicker for me is not even the two together, it was having both and making it public. Because that made it a betrayal to our kids--our family--and all the people who cared about us. That's the part that I can't understand or forgive. When he needed to insert her into my life, my kids, my town, my friends, my everything--that was the part I am not sure I can ever forgive. That was the part that made everything that was "us" somehow meaningless. That he can so easily insert B where A used to be and not feel any sadness, shame, remorse, or worry for what our kids would think or feel--that was the ultimate betrayal.
A friend was telling me a story of an amazing wedding sermon where the highlight was when the pastor told the couple, and I am paraphrasing, obviously, but he said:
Everyone asks me what love is, and I'll show you, but first I want you to know that what you have here is not love, you have a certain amount of affection, respect, blah blah, and a fair amount of lust and infatuation, and you are willing to make a promise--that is the first step in love. But if you want to know what love is, I want you to turn around. (So they did, they turned around and faced the crowd of over 1000 people.) That is love. Love is the people who support you and your marriage, and your family, through the sweet times, like today, and the really hard times, because there will be those, and one day you will know love because you will sit out there and see people like you that you have nurtured continue to grow that love for another generation--that's love.
And that's what my H threw away. When my friend told me that story, it finally put into words what I felt but could never explain--that love is longevity of commitment, the end, not the beginning, the fruit, not the seed. It's only love if it stands the test of time, not if you can so easily abandon it when the going gets tough. But, that's just me...
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Lisa,
That was very heartfelt once again....Can I just ask you something? :) What if your H really is in MLC and he isnt in his right mind
and what if YOU are the one that can hold that bond together until he some how see's he needs to take a different path? What if THIS is your journey? Hold onto that "fruit" and see what happens? What if all this feeling inside yourself is the real truths of LisaLives?
The on that can hold onto the torch?? I really hope that made sense?? LOL!! and by no means am I trying to change your mind on your standing postition. :)
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Lisa,
That was very heartfelt once again....Can I just ask you something? :) What if your H really is in MLC and he isnt in his right mind
and what if YOU are the one that can hold that bond together until he some how see's he needs to take a different path? What if THIS is your journey? Hold onto that "fruit" and see what happens? What if all this feeling inside yourself is the real truths of LisaLives?
The on that can hold onto the torch?? I really hope that made sense?? LOL!! and by no means am I trying to change your mind on your standing postition. :)
Syn, That's just the problem. I am not in crisis, I never have been. I have always known my heart and mind. And therein lies he rub. Those things are precious to me and right mind or wrong, to throw them away is a betrayal that can never be undone. He has taken steps not just to betray me sexually, or emotionally, or any of that, but he has jeopardized our kids and married another, thus promising to put her and kids above what we created. I can "forgive" him. I have forgiven him. But when you kill a plant, you kill it--same with a family. Sure you might be able to salvage a seed and grow a new family from it--which is what all you standers are trying to do. I respect that, but it's not the same plant, you can never go back and tell the story of the "plant." And I don't see the same value in the "spirit of the plant" that you do.
Sure there is some value, but the damage is done. He trashed my family and there is no restoring it. He, no matter who he becomes will never be truly significant to me in the way that he was. If your H raped your little girl, could you ever really welcome him back into your family the same way you did before? How is that different, if he was sick and schizophrenic but is now on meds and doing his best to have a great life, could you ever have the same level of trust? Would you put her in jeopardy again? Could you overlook her pain and confusion that she is in no way even capable of expressing, just for the sake of a marriage? Infidelity and divorce do leave scars, and the fact is that most of us will never know how hurtful or deep they run. He was willing to do that, and I am sorry if he is not in his right mind, but how could I ever know that he can make himself well enough not to do it again? I know a woman whose father divorced her mother twice and put them through years of emotional hell trying to make it work... Where is the greater risk?
But as far as standing, standing is about me, not my family. I only had one chance to have a family and he trashed that. I have no desire to have a new man in the lives of my kids, or to be a parent to anyone else's kids. I would never try to replace H, that's not an option--he is trying his damdest to replace me, and he doesn't see the insanity in that. I am a logical person. The damage of his leaving is done. We have to do our best to recover from that, regardless. I think the risk of trying to replace a father is far greater than not having one, so forget that. IF he were ever to come back, fully formed and with a true understanding of what he had done and wanted to rebuild a life, I might consider it, but probably not, because the chance will always exist that he could hurt them again and I think that would be far more damaging.
And I sure as heck don't see any reason not to have male companionship even if I am waiting for him to come around. I am just not a covenant keeper, I am too liberal for that--I don't believe in a double standard. I could forgive him an affair. If at some point he wants me back, then he has to realize that compared to what he did, if I choose to have someone else in my life, it's really only fair. And he is still beating me. I have had one man since we met, he has had two other women that I know of--I have no idea that there may not be more, but it would not have mattered, I could have forgiven anything he done to the point of about May of last year.
I want simplicity and companionship. I don't imagine I'll ever remarry, but I do want someone to share my life with, and while I have friends, we live in a couple's world and I want to be a part of that--I hate that I am viewed as a predator at every party I attend, and that I don't get invited to couples' parties anymore. And to be completely honest, H and his family are high maintenance and I never would have chosen to leave them, but since he imposed it, I would not want that life back. I enjoy being liked and appreciated, I like that my life is filled with laughter and love and joy, and not judgment and neediness. I don't miss the games and the manipulation. I--not my kids--but I am far better off with my life as it is and companionship with no real strings is a wonderful thing. H thought that was what he was getting--instead he bought himself a whole new set of headaches. I love that I have been given the gift to enjoy a man with no strings attached. I don't need a father, a spouse, a breadwinner, a crutch--nothing, I just need a nice man to share my life, make me laugh and have great sex. I loved being a wife, but since that was taken away, I want to enjoy being a really good girlfriend again.
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Lisa,
I actually DO agree with just about everything you say here...I have had all the same thoughts and feelings at one
point or another, In fact again today I am battleing the desire to move on with my OWN life with my D and be done
with this sh*t.
I feel like you do today...It was all ripped out from underneath me too. but AGAIN though. not one time, not two times
but SEVEN frikken times! so yah! I do get it.
I see where the deep hurt you feel comes from, everything that you knew to be safe was ripped away like it
meant nothing. YOUR whole life becomes a "joke" or the feeling that it has anyway. so I DO get it.
Your not the one that "stepped" out and abandoned you and your kiddos, HE DID. That kind of hurt runs deep.
So, I am just gonna say...I do really REALLY wish you well. with or without your Marriage in tact. I can only hope
that for all of us.
many hugs!
Syn
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Thank you, Lisa, for a very heartfelt and to-the-point post. You speak from a point of someone who has experienced and owned their pain and is moving on, but maybe not exactly moved on as of yet. I can't imagine the pain you've been through with how your H handled the D and remarriage. You must have been cut to the core, and I'm kind of feeling that you would never be able to trusy ANY man the same way you did your H and that may be the reason for your position.
I'm very early on in this, but I have been having the thoughts lately of how I want to spend the next decade of my life. I will be 40 in a week and I think my age is working against me in that I just don't want to spend my 40's sad and lonely. I KNOW that I could find someone else, but I DON'T KNOW if my W will ever be willing to commit to the marriage again regardless of what happens. I have alot of decisions to make, but I will not make them out of anger. I, too, want to share the best years of my life with someone of the opposite sex. I also want to enjoy the great sex like you mentioned and have no desire to live like a monk. I take my vows seriously, but if the marriage IS dead then what do my vows even mean anymore?
I wouldn't make excuses to ditch my marriage, but it pretty much ditched me. I may have nothing to stand or fight for anymore. And, if that turns out to be so, then I have no desire to put any energies into a lost cause.
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I don't know which is worse EA or PA.
I guess the PA has been for me because we struggled so much in that area. Trying to get my brain around him doing the things we did with someone else- wow I mean it took so much for me to make myself that vulnerable physically. And the emotional connection that made for me when we did connect was off the charts.
It didn't happen oftern but it did happen.
I belive we are both deeply connected emotionally ( and have been even through this shi*storm) we just don't know how to communicate it. It makes us feels weak.
He wanted the divorce I gave it to him and now were living together :o This whole whirlwind has been almost exactly one year. But he's still in MLC.
I don't know how to recover from the physical betrayal :'(
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Love, I believe if your H sincerely comes back you will be able to forgive him. My H also had said something similar to his OW about loving her. He told me he said it because she said it to him but that he didn't mean it. Now I had seen some emails and he certainly had no problem saying to her with ease. At first I was so hurt. But now I see it as just a symptom of his problem, and could sense that it was true that he didn't really mean it. I'm sure he believed he did at the time. It was infatuation not love. As he lost his "love " for her it was more clear that it was never love. True love is deep, developed over time. Affairs are not love even if they convince you of it. It just two disfunctional people desperately wanting to feel love so they both take the first thing that comes along and pronounces true , undying love for each other ::) In time when OW shows their true colors and when our H's show their true disfunctional state, the cracks start to appear. I hope both our H's get their act together soon >:(
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Thanks, Wondering. Me too. Hang in there. As you know, I see hope in your situation.
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It has all been painful, it's painful for all of us, but I have never really taken it personally. I freak out sometimes and think it's my fault, but at the end, it was his choice and what he has done to his kids is not about me. So, no T, I still trust people and I want to trust people, especially men, and even him, but that's why I struggle a lot with detachment. If I were to become detached enough from him that my it would be difficult for him to hurt me, it would make me less sensitive to others also, and I don't want that. Selective detachment is hard for me...
All my life I tested ENTP, very strong NT on the MB. I still do some OD consulting and recently was retested as an INFJ. The last five years of life have given me a lot of personal development in sensitivity and emotional awareness and forgiveness of others. I did not grow up in a supportive environment and it took me 25 years to allow myself to trust and be vulnerable with others. He can take my marriage and my family as I knew it, and for 20 years he robbed me of so much of me, but I don't want him to take any more, and that's part of not wanting to stand, too.
I value the trust I have for others and the fact that I have known deep caring and support from complete strangers. If I have to deal with him and his craziness, he will slowly, but surely erode all that, I could feel it happening before I went NC. And also brings me back to the part of me that thinks he is a narcissist and because he will never be happy himself, he will not rest until he has taken everything he can from me. I don't want him close enough to know what those things are, and I sure as hell am not letting him close to my heart without some kind of guarantee. You know that saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...
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Lisa,
I am going to say something here...please do not take offense...
But, we are all responsible for how WE feel, right? We are the ones that ALLOW others to TAKE from us.
Your H could NOT have taken so much of you for 20 years if you did NOT allow him too. I can sit here and blame
my H for all the years of addiction and affairs and blah blah blah...and blame him for taking MY life away from me.
but really, if you think about it. I allowed him too...I didnt stand up for ME. and I dont think you can souly blame
HIM...I dont think any of us....should BLAME our H's or W's for EVERYTHING.
We have the right to choose to walk, to STAY. to do whatever...its OUR choice. So I CHOSE to stay with my H for
24 years..MY CHOICE. Why blame him??
your H is 100% responsible for his ACTIONS and REACTIONS to everything in life and the same goes for YOU.
I think your still VERY angry here...I just would like to see if you can look at it from a different angle.
ya know??
Hugs
Syn
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Hi Guys,
When my H told me that he'd had unprotected sex with OW last September I was physically sick.....I thought my world had ended....the end of the safe world I had known for so many years....I thought it was the worst pain I would ever feel...it wasn't...the worst pain for me is the betrayal of the intimacies of our marriage that have come to light over the last twelve months and unfortunately are still coming to light...why would he do this? I don't know....but he has told OW so many things....
For me the act of betrayal and adultery took place long before he had a PA, it was the moment he even considered it, thought it was ok, and gave neither me nor our marriage a second thought against his own selfish needs....that for me is the thing I struggle with so very much. :( The sex is dreadful - a nightly terror that haunts me, but the betrayal of intimate secrets - that trust has gone forever...
Love Foxy
xxx
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Syn, I don't understand where you see anger. What part of my post sounds angry? You are right, I willingly gave up everything for him for 20 years, thinking that it was for the greater good, for our family, but what I gave was never enough. I was not intending to blame him, but I do feel robbed me, in that he took without fulfilling his end of the bargain. I am past the anger, but I know I felt it, and there will be days for the rest of my life that I will still feel it. But I don't live in anger or blame. What I was trying to say was that I am not going to let him take anymore, that I have to learn not to give and that's hard for me. Why is that angry?
I think thou doth protest too much, sweetie, with love and all due respect... I am truly happy and at peace with my choices and my decisions, and I choose to put myself out there, so that others can call me on it and use my experience to process their own, but I think I threaten you somehow. You can say in one post that you agree with me, but then when I try to explain that my decision did not come from a place of hurt, but was a resolution and a recognition of past hurt, you change tune and want to condemn me. I know you are struggling, I know we all struggle and I won't deny pain and anger and all that stuff, but it is not a part of my daily existence and it is not how I have made my choices.
I don't want to spend the rest of my life dealing with a crazy person who keeps trying to hurt me. And if my just reward is a return to a family that never wanted me in the first place, what have I won? I think that's a pretty sane decision, really. And if not for my commitment to my marriage and family no one but people here have ever questioned me. My friends, family, even his colleagues don't understand why I was married as long as I was... This site is focused on standers, but RCR has said a lot lately that she knows most will not stand forever. And this was part of a discussion about knowing when to "stand down."
Sure I doubt my decision, every day, because dealing with a crazy person you love will do that to you, but I am comfortable with my decision, even if I never convince you I am okay, I really am. And you will be okay too, and I hope you have the best life you can, standing, sitting or hanging on for dear life to the back of the bus--but will you never be okay with anyone who chooses not to stand, or is it just me?
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Lisa,
Maybe it isnt anger I see or read if you will? I guess its more of a frustration?? I could be very wrong.
If so, then I am glad you are at peace. I do want that for everyone. I do not question your stand.
I'll admit, I dont understand what keeps you here? I am not saying you are not allowed here or even welcome here.
I just dont understand it?
Really, I am not threatened by you at all. I think your who you are, and quite the wonderful person I am sure.
and I do still agree with "how you have felt" I have felt that too. so its not a matter of saying one thing and
then doing another. I agree with parts of how you feel, but on others I dont. But I do not judge you for it.
This is YOUR life. not mine.
Maybe it is because I question my own stand? maybe because I am not quite sure if you totally understand MLC?
I dont know. You are free to do what you want and feel is best for you. I would NEVER tell someone to DO as I do.
I really do not know what you have been through with your H, I wont ask. That is none of my business. I hope
That you atleast (and I could be speculating) feel grateful for YOUR life. Past, present and Future. (with or without him)
Many hugs
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I don't want to jump in the middle of this discussion nor do I want to take sides at all. I think you are both right, in fact. I think we are all at different points and have varying perspectives. My first inclination when I found out that Lisa was not a Stander was that she might judge those of us who do. I found out that IS NOT the case at all, and that in fact she is VERY supportive of our choices. She has also been very helpful to me in many ways.
Syn has a different viewpoint but also different life experiences that it is based upon. While Syn is still a Stander, I understand that resolve may be wavering and understandably so. She has much to deal with right now and I can completely understand why someone would be all over the board on what to do at this time. Lots of variables to take into account.
Ultimately, you both are doing what's right for YOU and for your FAMILIES. That's why I'm not wimping out when I say that neither of you are wrong.
((((Group Hugs)))))
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awwwww shucks Thundarr!! :)
Thanks for that! I think you make a very good therapist! ;)
((big hugs))
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Syn,
I understand many versions of MLC, but I am not sure if that's what my H is having. I am not sure how I would know. He is not a clear case, and there are others like me, I am sure.
So, I come here because whatever it is he has, there is no other place where I felt people have had the same experience, and other people like me will also come here. I come here not because I believe I am right, but because I question myself every day and I admire all you standers, but know I don't have that strength. I come here because if ever there is an "answer," I want to know it. If you all succeed in an amazing R and I don't, I want to know it so that one day I can pass that on to someone else. And finally, I come here because I know that there are other people like me who will not have the courage to stand, but like T, who I have opined is not yet ready to decide not to stand, I think I can offer some support, encouragement and hope because they also will come here, like I did and need the support of someone like me who has decided not to stand, but makes the choice in a healthy way.
I have tried my best to make the best decisions for me, for exH and especially for my kids. I am not infallible, obviously, or I would not be here, but I believe that I have to pay forward what others have so graciously given me and if I can help even one person here, then I have done a good thing. Plus, in my heart, I believe I will be one of those LBS that moves on before my exH has a chance to catch up. Maybe I will regret it, maybe not, but I owe it to everyone to at least lurk long enough to tell the end of my story.
That's it--I am not as strong as you, but I believe most people are not, and yet, they need support and guidance through this most painful journey, and deserve not to be criticized for not having that strength. It's the same reason I let myself get sued by my franchise, and I don't regret that, even if it was the nail in the coffin of my marriage, so I know I won't regret this--because I don't have much else to lose! Happy hump day to all! Lisa
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Ahhh Lisa,
ok, I get it. Thats perfect. you had no obligation to explain your position to me, but I thank you for that.
and to be quite honest, I do not know if I am truly stronger then you...Its hard yes, but I battle with my own decision alot
almost daily...but something keeps me standing. for how long? I have no clue. I will know when and if that times comes.
We just do what we gotta do, right? Thanks again for sharing that.
many hugs!!
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Just my opinion but I don't care if it is a EA or PA, it's wrong. My husband said that she was just a friend. Sorry but texting or calling 197 times in one month is more than friends. He only called me on his cell phone that month 3 times. Then he tells me that it was her that talked him into staying married to me as long as he had (freaking nice of her wasn't it). I don't really give a rats ass if he slept with her or not. He talked to her about problems between us, something I guess he couldn't do with me. So I call BULL$h!te I don't care what kind of spin people put on it, it's all the same CHEATING, LYING, BEING UNFAITHFUL, DECEIVING. All the same. they don't tell you what's going on and unless you find out for yourself, which by the way made me controlling as far as a$$hole was concerned (h) you live with the lies. And they make us the bad guys.
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Yep, Confused. You got that right.
I agree it is all cheating.
And, it's typical for the OW to say that your H needs to work on his marriage. So he can think, isn't she so kind! Isn't she so wonderful! My H said that his ex-wife said the same thing. Marriage and family were the most important things and that he should go home and work on his marriage. At the same time, she's texting and emailing him and sending him photos of her. Right! Really great gal!
Limitless
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Confused,
You rock!! Good to have you back!
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Yeah- my exh's exow told him she didn't get "involved" with married men. So what does the idiot do? Divorces me! Then he finds out the reason why- all she was after was his money.
Plus, in my heart, I believe I will be one of those LBS that moves on before my exH has a chance to catch up
And Lisa this was one of my greatest fears as I was getting jerked around and devastated over and over by his behavior and cruel comments etc. That I would finally have enough- suffer enough- and just pull the plug.
The divorce was fast and I was left in so much shock I could barely function. I couldn't straighten out how I felt as I didn't have enough time in most cases. All I knew is I was deeply wounded and bleeding profusely from my heart and soul.
Everytime I'd go NC or pull away he'd up the contact or something else would happen- I couldn't detach the way I should have in most cases.
This infidelity will be a hurdle wheteher it's emotional physical or both.
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I need to chime in here. Just after BD, when H announced to ow that he was divorcing me, done with M, ow played the Aren't I Wonder Card and said, 'Oh, your W must be petrified.' I am sure H thought, wow, what a woman, having sympathy for my W..... ::)...................gag
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Yep BS,
Same here.....apparently OW kept on saying for the past 12 months if my H wasn't happy he should come home to me...very clever psychology! She also said she felt bad about cheating on me, because her H had cheated on her...delightful, moral, saintly woman >:(
Love and hugs
Foxy xxx
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My H's OW has told him to "stay" with us at home so that he could be with our D.
That she was ok with that..LOL!! ya right!!
They have to make themselves look like the good guy...My H told me back right after BD that OW was mortified
over her affair with my H, that she felt HORRIBLE...He said, that should mean she isnt a complete bad person. :o :o :o
whatever...the OW R is fake!!
anyway, both EA's and PA's are hurtful, no doubt about that. But I still think the emotional "tie" is harder to let go of.
I know this doesnt really apply to MLCers because they feel like They have never felt this way about anyone.
My H told me at BD, that he loved her more then he even ever loved me, that he was able to reach deep into emotions
that he never thought he had. He was writing her poetry for crying out loud!! LOL!!
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My H told me at BD, that he loved her more then he even ever loved me, that he was able to reach deep into emotions
that he never thought he had. He was writing her poetry for crying out loud!! LOL!!
Syn - you know somewhere deep down that that just isn't true.
Your H is in La La land. The OW is a nutter. True love? Yeah right!
My H's OW also said to him at the beginning - 'you really should try to make things work with your W'
What amazes me is that not only do our H's read from a script, so do the OW - astounding!!
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oh no worries Kikki...I knew about 2 months after BD...it was as fake as they come.
:)
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Fake everything. It's like Tinsel town in their heads except with trailer park trash. I can see from cell phone that he's going to get more vicodin from MD today. I thought he was looking for work? ::) Uh Oh I hope OW Bowser can afford the rent and doesn't mind him laying around in Fantasy Land circling jobs in the paper and eating rolaids and vicodin in the bathroom. True love.........True happiness...I mean True avoidance! True running! :o
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Fake everything alright Mamma!
I don't know what's worse - my H creates true happiness by running away from us and working like an addicted maniac to keep him from thinking a single thought about anything in the real world. His job is all about fantasy land - Trailer trash OW works in fantasy land with him - PERFECT :-X
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KIKi Ew Work together? Disgusting. I thought since they are incapable of having a R with anyone it must be really shallow.
My Ds are such great little spies. Only once did they hang out around OW Bowser. And the info they told me is hysetrical. I don't even know why I'm so worried. They said they hardly talk. When he says something she always laughs. ::) ::)
I asked if OW talks a lot. Ds said "No. She said 'What do you want for dinner'? That's about it. Daddy does all the talking and he's really quiet and confused looking." :o :o :o Right on script. Hooray! Lovin' it! :)
I also know he is being dissed by his brothers and sisters and Mom. He never had any friends really. Just fun ole' me. :)
Well process away time consumer. We are GALing over here. Gotta get home and help with 4th Grade math :o :o
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I don't really know what OW said about me, but I have some pretty good ideas based upon a few things my husband has said. The day I discovered the affair, she "broke" it off with him supposedly. I have some pretty good reasons to think that she was communicating with him through a mutual friend for a few days. She was afraid of what the big, bad wife (me) would do and that I would "out" them to her husband. Such a great example of emotional manipulation this was. H begged me to leave her and her family alone although I gave no indications I would ever contact her or her husband. The truth was, if I was going to do so, it would have been done in the first 48 hours after I found out.
I also suspect she played the "I'm so sorry for what I've done to her (me) card" on numerous occasions. Again, this is based upon something H said to me, while indirect, that was evidence of this. The fact is that some one that is sorry for an action does not continue the behavior, even going so far as to invite the MLCer out for a special day AFTER he is home and reconciling with his wife. Her emotional blackmail and manipulation still infuriates me.
I also still suspect that she was pushing H to divorce and move out. If he did so, she could leave her family and husband. Again, this is sort of an educated guess based upon reading the articles, the forum, and a few things H said to me during the worst days and since we have been working at building and rebuilding our marriage. More emotional blackmail by her.
I do also know that the sex, and I'm hesitant to even call it that as that is giving to much humanity, was horrible and awful. There were days I know he went to see her before I found out and happen to know he was particularly "affectionate" that morning. Guess he was creating an excuse for himself for the lousy coupling or his inability to perform or whatever.
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Patience, I like to hear about bad coupling! LOL I cannot be sure if H is in EA, or if it has gone PA. Anyone want to go spy for me??? I have been trying to decide IF I could handle knowing it is PA and stay Standing. For safety sake, I assume it is PA. But that is different than knowing it. H says it has not gone PA, but he does not deny that he is attracted to her. Excuse me, I need to clear my throat....hum,..skank..... >:(
For MY sake, I really want to know the truth now. I just do not know if I am one of those that cannot get past the 3rd person "in bed". :-\
Mulling...gotta run!
Sorry for the hi-jack, Syn!
Bestar
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KIKi Ew Work together? Disgusting. I thought since they are incapable of having a R with anyone it must be really shallow.
Sure is Ew!!! and Disgusting !!!!
They are both revolting. The entitlement astounds me. The good thing is that our three teenage boys REFUSE to have anything to do with her, so that's the strongest message that H gets. Other work people just have to suck it up I guess, but I bet people are laughing behind their backs.
I mean - there's me and our three beautiful boys, and then there's trailer trash skank who thinks she's won the lottery ...... hmmmmmm
I have heard many whispers of 'OMG I'm so shocked - he's such a cliche'
The funny thing is my H has said on more than one occasion that he was incapable of having a R with me in the end ........ pause ......... actually incapable of having a R with anyone .......... (so what is it that they're having, one has to wonder? - shallow definitely).
I think all they must talk about is work, work, work, oh and 'what do you want for dinner' ???
Must be the big difference between your H's overt depression and my H's covert depression. Mine is using addictions (work, Ow, dope) to cover up and at least function in this area. Yours likes drawing circles and taking meds ;)
H does let his 'mask' slip off around us often though and often looks absolutely dreadful. At the moment he's on a bit of a roll and on the upswing though. No doubt we'll see a big drop again before too long.
Two of our boys have checked out H's phone (bad boys) - they both said that it was just like their teenage mates, the way the pair of them were carrying on. No, nothing of any depth going on there at all. :-X
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KiKi One time someone sent me a copy of OW Bowser 's FB she had said " I am not amused. My phone crashed and burned. My love bought me a fabulous new one."
What 47 year old woman talks like that? I mean Really? My H got 1400 on the SATs and if he hadn't gotten mixed up with opiates at an early age (MLC root cause I think) then he'd have gone to Princeton or Fordham or Cornell like his siblings. This S**t is so crazy. This website and these articles are right on with this stuff. I really trust the MLC process. He told his Mom he liked it over there bc it's quiet and he's not yelling at his kids anymore. He's not yelling at his kids bc he sees them a few times a week if that!!!! Too funny. EA/PA Bad news for us right now!! BUT 'change is in the wind'. I love when Conway said that. That I am sure of. It is NOT REAL. I can see it in his face. :o :o
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well, again....when a 43 year old man has 12,000 texts msges on his cell bill...THAT my friends says everything!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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'12,000 txts on ph bill'
yip - says it all
'change is in the wind'
I like it - lets stand back and watch
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Syn and KiKi 12,000 texts WTF? What's to say? How are you? I am fine. WOW!
Yeah and these OWs are so special they don't even realize they're in an R with someone who is incapable of being in an R with ANYONE right now, not even his kids,siblings, mother or wife. Mass confusion,chaos and drama..how can that be good for them? Isn't their bar of what's acceptable a little LOW?
What kind of character judges are they? Why will they stoop so low to let a crazy married man move right in? They must just hold it in until they explode......pass the popcorn....
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oh yah Mamma,
12,000 texts in one month....but that was back when he was WAY deep in addiction with OW and he got busted
by his employer when they found out. ( business phone) :o :o :o :o
They told him then if they found out he was texting during work hours they would take his phone away.
but you know he couldnt have that happen...LOL!!
but I guess since he has been working in NY and staying with OW, there may not be a need for such texting.
but I do remember that when she was here, he told me they would text eachother in the same house!!! :o :o :o
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but I do remember that when she was here, he told me they would text eachother in the same house!!! :o :o :o
[/quote
When my kids were teenagers they used to do that sitting next to each other.
Thats what you got a big teenager.
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12,000 messages in 1 month? :o I think they beat the most texting addict teenager!
but I guess since he has been working in NY and staying with OW, there may not be a need for such texting.
but I do remember that when she was here, he told me they would text eachother in the same house!!! :o :o :o
:o ::) ;D :o that's all I can say!
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Now I'm kinda glad they found each other. Their EA is' pass the ketchup' ? That's cool. :) The sex? Probably good once or twice. Now he's confused. And on opiates. :o That never helps MrPopkins. ::)
This is getting good. Add the' he's now unemployed' and rock bottom is getting closer and closer. Here comes LG to tell me 23.6 more months :o :o :o It's cool. I'm chillin'
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As a male that went through this, I can say my heart was broken when I learned of the PA but was completely shattered when I learned there was an EA, felt way more betrayed. Being emotionally intimate with someone else after all the years her and I were together was the worst part about it. There was no trust, she could have been telling this person things that only my W and I discussed. I felt totally alone at that point – who could I count on? Who could I trust? Who could I share things with?
I think the body will go where the mind/heart goes – men in MLC probably start PA then go EA and women in MLC – I think – go the other way around.
But, they have to live with that. We don’t.
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I can tell you Standing.....while I was going through PPD, It was the EA that got me first...I told OM things that I never should have
and I even told him many lies, to justify my reasons for doing what I did.
I was/am not proud of what I did. and it has taken my H's MLC (13 yrs later) to really see the amount of pain I truly caused him back then.
I can only hope my H knows how much I understand.
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from what I know, my ex told many lies. And I figured - what else would she have said? the truth? The worst was when i realized she had told the OM I beat her and my children. But then that sometimes just makes you know how crazy they are and how messed up MLC's are and proved to me that it wasn't me/us - it was her. And I was (almost) sane because who would claim that yet leave the kids w/ their father?
the EA always scared me more and figured she was really gone then.
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I feel the same way.....The EA seems to be harder to get over..
I told the OM my H abused me too....It was all for the "poor me affect"
Its hard...all of it.
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Yeah and these OWs are so special they don't even realize they're in an R with someone who is incapable of being in an R with ANYONE right now, not even his kids,siblings, mother or wife. Mass confusion,chaos and drama..how can that be good for them? Isn't their bar of what's acceptable a little LOW?
What kind of character judges are they? Why will they stoop so low to let a crazy married man move right in? They must just hold it in until they explode......pass the popcorn....
They're a special breed these OW and OM ......... dysfunction, dysfunction, dysfunction
My H's OW is turning 40 soon - no kids and left a 16yr long abusive relationship to be with my H in this state ............ Hmmmm Yip - clearly an OW who is a WONDERFUL judge of character.
It does still hurt very much - but hey, he's absolutely no use to me right now - so I guess we're all better off if she continues to entertain him for another year or so ............ (this is where the crystal ball would come in handy :)
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synicca,. you have a unique perspective on all this..
they are very special Kikki, so true. I always tell this short story when talking about the OM that makes me laugh to this day: my BIL (a good man!) voluntarily and w/out my knowledge followed around my ex and the OM and confronted them (hoping to shock them and save my marriage)...he asked the OM what in the hell did he know about marriages and relationships...his response was that he had 4 sisters, and they were all divorced!
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Popping in here with a reminder..... OW often tell the same sad story of abuse by ex boyfriend or husband.... I'd bet that 99% it's not true...
By the way, my husband's OW tried the old "LG is right! I am a pig for what I've done and I'm so ashamed. I will no longer try and win your love and keep you from your family, though I will always love you...I'm going to get a FB account so I can apologize to her and don't try and stop me because you can't!" or some similar garbage. He was crying when he read her email to me.... it was after one of their daily breakups about 5 months after the affair started.... he asked "what do you think of THAT???" I guess because he was trying to prove to me what a nice and caring person she was and I replied "I think it's a manipulation and you're falling for it like a sucker". The crying over it was disgusting!
A few months later I asked if she EVER thought of what her actions were doing to me and the kids and he hung his head and grimaced and said "No. She never gives you a second thought." Now, I know it was a waste of time to try and get him to see what a manipulator and liar OW was, cuz he was just as bad... totally selfish! These days, he says he "can't stand being up there with her (yet he stays!) and that lifestyle... the non parenting...." So, the sex is bad, he doesn't like anything about her, can't stand her family cuz they're trashy and all up in each other's business, tells me she can't and WON'T cook, and she's a bad Mom.... sounds like TRUE LOVE, LOL!!
I don't want to be known only as the "good wife who can cook" but, he does talk about it A LOT!! I guess because he is always eating in restaurants, when he is here he goes on and on about how great of a cook I am :o! A lot of times, when he's cycling towards me (every three days now) he tells me I'm wonderful at EVERYTHING!!!
So, their perspective changes for sure... he also told me he goes up to OW's because it represents FREEDOM :o! I guess freedom to F up you life??? I think what he does is PRETEND to be someone else with OW.... she doesn't KNOW him, so he can claim anything he wants... she has NO TIES to his friends or family, so how would she know other than what he tells her? I asked him why he spent his birthday at her place instead of home with hid kids, and he said he felt so guilty that he didn't want us to do anything special for his birthday because he "didn't deserve it"..... that it was EASIER to be around people YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT...
I know with him, it was an IDEA of a "fling"... short lived PA that got him to call her after she approached him, but because he held back.... trying to be faithful, it turned into an EA within their "dating" EEWWWW!! Once they cross that line of "my wife doesn't understand me and never has... she just uses me to pay the bills and my kids take me for granted and don't care about me" then they're off to the races....
I would actually be CURIOUS to know the lies OW has told him... like, I wonder if she used the "my ex baby daddy abused me" card.... I think they all do.. it's the female version of "my wife doesn't understand me".
Anyway, just giving my "inside information" on how their relationship crumbles to nothing but contempt and dysfunction but they still can't leave it.... it's really a little like what happened to US..... the perception of us as the enemy, the picking at everything we do, the dissatisfaction with us and the marriage, the frustration at feeling "trapped", until FINALLY, they break and run.... maybe that's when they get the wake up moment... the dam breaks and they just can't take it any more....so they run back to us if we're standing.
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I can't imagine the lies my W must be telling those around her. She took off and left me with the kids, so how do you justify that?!? Tell them I have guns and threatened to kill her? If she makes them think I'm an a-hole, then that makes her look like a bad mom. If she tells them I'm a good person, then she looks like a bad mom. I don't get it. How is she finding people to say "You go, girl!!" What the hell is wrong with this society?
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..he asked the OM what in the hell did he know about marriages and relationships...his response was that he had 4 sisters, and they were all divorced!
S4M - that's very funny - you have to laugh or you'd cry :)
LG - I have often wondered about that - 99% of the OW stories of abuse not true. Something (my intuition I guess) has always made we wonder at her stories (what little I've heard). Do you really stay for 16years if its that bad? I doubt it ...
T - My H has managed to find himself a small bunch of people who insist that he needs to do whatever he needs to do to be 'happy'.
Society is scr*wed!
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KiKi, That part of society is screwed! We have grace and dignity. :) On another thread I think Tinydancer was saying her H told his sister ' I'm not sure why I have to do this but I do.."
Nice. So I keep hearing this. They are compelled to abandon and run. That movie inside their head must be something else. All these masks and impulses to carry out evil actions(can't call them plans bc they are not planning just acting out) :o :o
When our spouses sit alone and reflect on each day I wonder what is going on up there in their brains. ::)
They must just think 'this happens all the time.'
The pendulum swings back and forth. The anxiety and confusion spilling all over the place. :o :o
When OW is out shopping and comes back to him she must always wonder 'what kind of mood is he gonna be in today ' .
My sister told me she read somewhere what happens in the one R spills onto the other R. When we interact with them and they go back to ow/oms The OP can sense something's not right! :o :o
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Both, my hunsband’s OW1 and OW2 where first EA followed by PA.
“…that it was EASIER to be around people YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT...”, LG, yes, it must be. Because the only time by husband said something about OW2 was that “I couldn’t care less about her”. So, if they don’t care about OW/OM, and, after all, it was not that hard to leave spouse (and kids), how come it is so difficult to leave OW/OM?...
"my wife doesn't understand me and never has... she just uses me to pay the bills and my kids take me for granted and don't care about me" then they're off to the races....
Of course the wife does not care? How could she. She had only been with him since ever, right?... ::)
“When our spouses sit alone and reflect on each day I wonder what is going on up there in their brains. ” Mamma Bear, Not sure what others spouses think about when alone. I know my husband makes sure he is always busy, if he is alone home he has to be on-line chatting with many people, because “if I stop I’m gonna have to think about what I’ve done.”
Kikki, mine has managed to surround himself either with people that new about OW1 but could care less or that ever never knew be, so they think OW2 is, in fact, just his girlfriend. And, of course, the ones that new he was married and of other OW1, follow the “he said he needs a new life, that he needs to be happy”.
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AnneJ, I think we are married to the same man as I've also heard the one about "if I stop I'll have to think about what I've done"....
I'm currently reading Jim Conway's "Men in Midlife Crisis", because I tend to do think backwards, LOL!! It's interesting how my husband's MLC is playing out according to script and the description of Midlife Crisis in the book... however, it is helpful to remind me that my husband doesn't want to replace me.... he might have in the beginning, that's for sure! But later on, they are simply trapped in a world they cannot understand or escape. I've been pushing hard on mine lately because I'm TIRED.... he is MISERABLE, but needs more time... that's really all he needs... time, patience, understanding. He needs contact with me and the kids, or he will have NO hope.... but it won't be the catalyst for him making a final break from the affair, although it may help him keep TRYING to get away from it.
My husband says repeatedly that he doesn't know WHY he does the things he does.... this is genuinely haunting him!! I really WISH there were a way to say "You are not alone... what you're going through happens to other men.... you can find others to talk to this about, and they won't mock you at all or judge you...." I do see moments of clarity... more and more as time marches on.
Again, as far as him stating "it is easier to be around people you don't care about", I see it as a way to remain EMOTIONALLY detached from life in general.... see, when he's with us, he sees that his kids are growing up, that we live in a tiny cramped rental instead of our former beautiful big trophy house, and that we are content, so why isn't he? By being around people that don't know him, are "lesser" than him, he feels strong, instead of weak.... when he's with me, he readily cries, and that must be scary to a man.
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KiKi, That part of society is screwed! We have grace and dignity. :)
My sister told me she read somewhere what happens in the one R spills onto the other R. When we interact with them and they go back to ow/oms The OP can sense something's not right! :o :o
Grace and dignity - we do indeed, thanks for the reminder :)
That was interesting about the interactions - I hadn't ever thought about that. What turmoil it must be .......
Aj and LG - definitely seems to be a recurrent theme - surrounding themselves with new people who don't know us, are 'lesser' than him so he feels strong
My H let it slip a few weeks ago 'don't feel abandoned, I'm always more here with you than anywhere else' (Huh? I didn't ask for clarification!)
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LG, we mut really be married to the same man!
We have no kids and I have not see him since May 2008. The only talks we've had were about taxes or the death of relatives and pets. All the things he have told me, excepto the "I don't give a damn about her", were all during OW1. That sentence about OW2 was in the middle of a talk regarding taxes and legal stuff (he has o give me money but of course he does not). That talk was very, very weird. He started by sounding happy to ear my voice, something he hadn't heard in years, moved to say he knew I wanted to be happy (hello, I'm happy), passed to monster, crying, nice, defensive, monters, half-crying, hanging the phone in my face.
We have mutual FB friends and my SIL is on my FB. The really, really strange stuff? People have often told me OW2 resembles me. She does a bit, specially the hair. But was is really creepy is her female cat. Her cat looks just like my cat (the pet that died Feb 010). She already had her act before the death of mine but when mine died she moved her cat to their flat. How do I know? Well SIL FB. I found that crazy! Husband has the same cat even if it not the same cat!
My husband lives in a very nice flat with OW2 I've had to move back with my family. He is living the high life, the party life. Never, ever stops. But judging for his state in that phone call and photos I've seen is happiness is, to say the least, a bit strange. Not sure when will this crazyness end or how. 5 years down the line and he is still in la-la-la land.
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Kikki,
I believe your H was telling you the truth!! ;) Sometimes they do that! LOL!!!
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AJ - 5 years down the line and he's still in la-la land - good grief - that is such a long time .....
Syn - do you think they do sometimes tell the truth? wouldn't that be nice :D
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Kikki,
actually I do....moments of clarity..even though they cant hold onto it very long. :)
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Kikki, I am also apparently married to your husband as well, LOL!
My H let it slip a few weeks ago 'don't feel abandoned, I'm always more here with you than anywhere else' (Huh? I didn't ask for clarification!)
Heard it!! And I'll tell you what..... it IS the TRUTH!! The problem is we are not moving in Sync with our spouses.... they are so F'd up that no one can... but in their minds, they are still our spouses, if enough time has passed... or maybe not spouses, but eternal somethings, hahaha!!
To AnneJ and to Kikki, I confess I don't know either of your stories, so my next bit of unsolicited advice should be taken or left as needed.... I really feel both of your husbands would benefit from some allowed contact by you, other than strictly business... I get the feeling they are both open, whether there is OW or not..... I have no idea if you are friendly or mainly aloof and avoiding contact with them, and I don't suggest pursuing at all... just that they are trying to give you hints that they know where they belong if only they could find their way back home one day.... like I said, take it or leave it.
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Yes, kikki, 5 years in la-la-la land! And I have no idea when la-la-la land will go away…
I agree with synicca, sometimes they tell the truth. During OW1, when my husband was a clinging boomerang/boomerang, I could tell when he was lying, believing what he was saying, and telling the truth. The "if I stop I'll have to think about what I've done".... is true.
LG, I’m gonna tell you a bit of this long, long story and ask what you think of it. In theory I agree that he may benefit of some contact other than business. First I must say that since OW2 I’m neither friendly nor unfriendly. I only, and very rarely, talk business with him. I’m not avoiding contact I’m not contact. I had enough of contact during OW1. It was insane.
Now, to the story. Husband come up with we should got divorced because things are not working in September 06. Moved out mid Oct 06. I was suspicious that there was OW, asked him, he denied, I knew he was lying. He went and live with a younger, single male acquaintance. I received an anonymous phone call telling me about husband and OW1. The usual followed. I knew nothing about MLC except the 20 years old blonde and red Ferrari cliché.
Husband had been strange for months before he left. Sometimes very nice, buying me nice clothes and other things, sometimes totally enraged, accusing me of not being good enough. This odd behaviour remained after he left, minus the buying me things. He need to leave because he wanted a new life. He took the money from our bank accounts, stop giving me money and paying house expenses.
I could no longer afford things on my own, was offered a job (short lived) back in our home town. Looking back it may have been stupid to take it. Husband made a huge scene because I was leaving. 6 months after I left he starts working in the local branch of the company I was working for. For work reasons we needed to keep in touch every work day. My branch closed. No more need of daily contact. OW1 was gone Feb08. When I and husband were still working in the same company he restarted buying me small things.
OW2 and no more working for the same company and soon I receive a court letter. He had filled for fault divorce against me. He has no grounds for fault divorce. 9 months after the case was filled (courts are very slow in our country). He filled again for fault divorce against me, alleging the same stuff as first time, late March. Case will be again closed, he will be fiend for the court. We will stay married and another large amount of money will had been spent.
Since we no longer worked together contact between us diminished. When first court process started I stopped contacting him. Since I only contact him for busyness or a family death. He had contacted me twice, thanking for my condolences when his grandmother passed away and to tell me my cat was dying (she stayed with him because of our other cat). Contacts were always text, e-mail or gmail chat. The only thing that could be taken has he is really not vanishing was the fact that, even if I was there, he keep his gmail chat on available mode. That changed a few weeks ago. I had, again, to remind him he needs to make my money payment. I did so by e-mail and, a couple of days latter asked him, on gmail chat “So, what do you have to tell me’”. He closed the chat and never again appeared available.
Yes, even with the lawsuits running, for all those 3 years he had been with his gmail chat available, I could had engaged in conversations with him about subjects we both like. But lawsuits where/are running. And it would made no sense to be talking to him in the middle of a legal battle. Plus, I’ve always talked to him, even went out with to social event while I was still in the other city, during OW1. It made no difference.
Or it made, he was always cake eating, and I was a wreck. No I’m not a wreck, he does not cake eats, we have no kind of contact except business, and the second lawsuit is still running.
Ah! A real strange thing, in the few times I talked to him about business he is alwaya scared, saying “I think the lawyers should do this”, like he fears his lawyer or something. My lawyer says that if we manage to solve our issues outside of court, all the better. And that couple stuff should still be talked between us.
This got way long. ::) Looking forward to heard your opinion, LG.
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LG, Forgot to add, during that crazy conversation about taxes and money, when husband was spewing venonm he said “money is much important for you than I am” me “Uhh… do you wanna be back?” husband “Marrying you was the worst mistake of my life”, me “one more reason to this (divorce) quick and painless, no need of courts”, husband (insane tone of voice, half crying half mad man laughing) “I will never go back, never, never…” phone hanged on my face.
When this talk took place he already had filled for the second lawsuit but I had not yeat received the court letter. He did not told me a word about the lawsuit. Mine divorce mentioning was connected with previous lawsuit and the fact that, since, we had not been able to sort a single thing out. He just drags, and drags, and drags or files for fault divorce without grounds (another way of dragging).
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LG - Thanks for your thoughts. I love reading your thread. It's one wild ride ;D
My BD was also Feb 2010. H moved out June 2010 into OW's place (a shoebox). Since Feb this year he has his own place and I think she is there more often than not. Nothing has changed in our financial situation (although of course he's added huge extra financial burden with his place) - everything is still tied in together.
We have three teenage boys. They refuse to have anything to do with OW and haven't met her. H is in contact with me nearly every day. Either phones, emails, txts or calls by.
I no longer invite him here for meals, as that seemed way too cake-eaty, but I am polite, friendly (but distracted more than I would have been before.)
I do not pursue (although sure did in the beginning :)
He knows I'm here. He threatens legal action if I announce that I am going to extract myself in any way from him. As soon as I ease off, the threats stop.
I agree LG, the messages from him have been so mixed and he does drop hints that he knows where he should be - but he is oh so LOST.
I'll take your advice, thanks :)
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Thought I'd remind us all about the LIGHTHOUSE. Think it can remind us that what we think is an EA is actually something more like desperation - clinging onto the first log you can find when you're drowning ........ that's not TRUE LOVE, that's DYSFUNCTION
The Lighthouse:
They're in huge conflict. Totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now. Empty and lonely relationship no matter how good the 'rush'.
Their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now, despite the need to go back and back again and again to prove themselves right or wrong is strong.
Their actions towards you, your children, the OW/OM and themselves, keep them from engaging in any real interaction with any real depth and truth.
It is a misguided attempt to fill their void that has appeared in their life. They are lost to themselves. They are very lonely and sad. Remove yourself from the chaos - do not participate or add to it. Stand for clarity and reason.
(Yeah, but how many years does it take for them to see the LIGHT?) ???
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I thought I would share this little tid bit....on how messed up OW's are.
back in 05 during mine and my H's D...when he moved his OW in our home...she was married by the way...her husband filed
for divorce, and he told the OW that she could have her half of the furniture, IF she WOULD GIVE HIM FULL COSTODY
of their daughter......SHE AGREED!!! :o :o :o :o :o
so there you go....THATS how completely a udderly f*cked up they are!!
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(Yeah, but how many years does it take for them to see the LIGHT?) ???
That is the 1 million dollars question! 8)
Whatever time they need to figure themselves out?...And how many years do they take to do that? No one knows. Hence the divorce and move one with our lives issue that has been debated here on the forum several times. Should we stay and stand or should we go and remarry?...
synicca, what a crazy story that of your husband. you've been divorced since 05? are you still standing for your husband?
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AnneJ,
we divorced and remarried in 06..LONG story!! :)
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AnneJ,
we divorced and remarried in 06..LONG story!! :)
Ah! a reconciliation! Excelent! :-) May I ask why you stay around here? His he in MLC currently?
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He is in full blown MLC now...we had alot of problems back then...he was a meth addict, and he cheated before.
but, I think he was hitting MLC back in 05-06, but I forced him out...then he re-entered MLC again about 3 years ago.
hiit full on Replay last year.
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Let's see, full custody in exchange for half the furniture. I kinda want a new couch anyway.........
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yep, Thundarr.....That about sums it up..sick if you ask me!
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As far as I'm concerned, my W can take ALL the furniture in exchange for giving me full custody. We'll eat on the floor if we have to.
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Yep!! I agree!!
someone would have to step over my dead body to get my D..:)
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He is in full blown MLC now...we had alot of problems back then...he was a meth addict, and he cheated before.
but, I think he was hitting MLC back in 05-06, but I forced him out...then he re-entered MLC again about 3 years ago.
hiit full on Replay last year.
:-[ Hope you will reconciliate again soon.
Reading your words I'm happy I did nor accept to become husband's "girfriend" back in sprig 08.it would ahve not stop a thing. Better let him spend all his replay away from me.
Thundarr, I'm sorry I have no kids. Will never know the thrill or trading them for half the furniture. ;D tch, tch, tch...I really could use some furniture! ;D
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Thundarr, It sounds like full custody in exchange for an OLD couch.
Even worse. ::)
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Thanks Annej....I can only pray for a miracle now!! :)
hugs
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Today I would give both my kids for a new basket since S14 broke one while throwing stuff, so a sofa sounds like a really good deal... He is mad at me and once again, threatening to go live with his father because he and OW will let him play paintball all the time and buy him the pads he wants... OMG, parenting teens through divorce is so ugly, there are days I am tempted to put them on that plane. So if anyone wants to go for the furniture, I can send you two kids, give me a shout--they're cute, but darn lazy, and they eat a lot and have expensive taste in clothes... Not a good pitch, huh, how about a temporary trade?
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LL Do they put blankets over the chairs and make tents?
Do they leave naked Barbies all over the place. And Hannah montana wigs :o I wish I could get all that $$ back from this stuff.
Now they're talking Christmas! Get outta dodge. :o :o :o
I want to have a nice clean house without all this clutter and mess. The noise alone from them will kill you. LOL
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MB -
Mine are making tents and bear caves right this minute. I am not allowed to change D2's nappy yet because "the stink is part of the play" ???- I have just watched an animal play and now am about to be treated to a pirate play. So much for house work! Just come out of Midlife dimension's chat room.
Better get on with changing nappy and doing dishes and Oh, get dressed :P
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Kikki and AnneJ,
I don't really have any advice for either of you..... I just felt prompted to say what I did, so I said it. If there is something there for you, you will know. The legal action is certainly a way to distance.... I have no idea how to handle that.... I THINK I might try and get 30 minutes of his time alone and just say "Is there any reason why we can't just be kind to one another? I only wish the best for you...." and see what happens, which would be a crapshoot.
Imagining what I might do is an indulgence, because NO ONE knows how they would handle this situation if it were happening to them...
I just got off the phone with my BF who I am concerned may be showing signs of MLC anxiety.... no way for me to know, and I'm hypervigilant, so not really fair... Her husband has sever depression and had a mental breakdown a couple of weeks ago, so we've had a lot of talk lately...
Unfortunately, I need to learn to lie and tell her "everything's great" when she asks about my husband, or if she asks what I'm up to, to not mention him no matter what.... I get a loving lecture every time about only talking about him and not about me..... ummm... I DID talk about me, what I'm doing, what I'm thinking, learning, my job, changes I want to make and then I talk about HIM because he is a huge part of my life.... sorry if your husband doesn't rate in your world, but mine actually does. Doesn't mean there is something wrong with me....
She goes on and on about how she is not willing to spend another 25 years with him, and she just wants out.... that she feels MAJOR anxiety every morning when she wakes up in her home, and since she's never felt that way before, it must be him. I agree that his mental state may be the cause of her anxiety.... but is there possibly something else at play here? She has been unsettled for years.... it's fine with me if she wants to leave him.... go ahead. Now she says she will not leave him while he's so unstable... gonna wait until he becomes stable again.... says that his life is his to fix, not her problem..... let his therapists and doctors help him... it's not her job.
Lectures me about not having a stong Al Anon program... she's right.... I go for MY reasons, which she tells me are not good enough, and won't work. That the only way for me to get well is to commit one hundred percent... I don't disagree... but I also don't agree with her assessment that the only problem my husband has is untreated alcoholism. he does have that, and he also is having a severe MLC. But WTH do I know.... I'm just a co dependent and enabler.
So let me stand up and say, once again, how lonely it is to walk this road as the LBS.... even our smartest friends ASSUME we are weaklings who can't live without our husbands while they "would not put up with it... life's too short!" Maybe I'm the crazy one.... maybe I'm completely co dependent and I'm just married to an a**hole who cheats.... maybe it's ME who won't face the truth.... forget about the fact that everyone who posts on this forum tells the EXACT same story, except for a few details.... Same words.... same deeds....
I listened and tried not to feel like I had to "explain" why my husband's affair is different.... why he can't let go of OW.... to hear her subtly try to get me to "think" so that I could become more aware and just accept that I was enabling my husband's bad behavior.... that he doesn't really love me.... that he's never going to be better.... that I should "put my foot down" and be "old school take no bulls***" and then he would straighten up.... The inference that his behavior is not MLC, but simply untreated alcoholism and that if I don't cut him off completely, it will be my fault if he never gets well.
I know she can't understand..... I honestly hope she's not heading into her own crisis... honestly.... but I have seen a lot of signs... and yes, she "has done the work" and been sober and in therapy for 20 years... but she holds it up as everyone's standard to attain, and if you don't, or aren't on her timeline, you are simply WEAK and UNWILLING and unworthy of her empathy..... still, she just ended an EA with a old love that went NOWHERE, and that lasted for over a year.... she talked about him constantly, yet he gave her nothing. I'm not judging her... but I have seen some signs and I hope I am wrong.... she takes good care of herself, and is on bio identical hormone therapy.... watches it carefully.... and yet... I see the signs...
When my husband comes out of this, what will people think? Will they think he's the same and that I could have done better, but didn't have the guts to try? Or will they see a new man, and the type of marriage everyone envies? Cuz that is what I'm standing for... a marriage that I envy along with everyone else... I want that.... the older couple holding hands and walking along the beach... romantic in the way that truly intimate couples are, and you don't see it much...
I know how much I've grown.... but no one sees it because I dare to talk about my husband and his crazy behavior..... he exists.... and his life is intertwined with ours, and not always in a dysfunctional way.... he is trying, and he's getting better... but getting better just looks like crumbs to most people..... most people just trade partners and continue on with their path until it's time to trade partners again... the ideal is to be able to learn and grow with your life partner.... and I actually do know couples that have been married since they were 20 years old.... now middle aged, and still together... they have an easy relationship, at least in public... it seems mature... they spend time together that is fulfilling as companions, and also time apart on sabbatical.... they are individuals who are happy to be married.... balanced....
So, who do I have that understands MLC, now that this forum is so filled with people unwilling to acknowledge MLC..... still questioning... still angry because they can only imagine their spouses have suddenly changed so drastically because they are bad people.... who is willing to empathize and not call it co dependent? Who is willing to commit to their marriage because they remember how much they loved each other once... that perhaps the old marriage was dysfunctional, but a new one could be fashioned from the hearts of two mature people who have endured together...
WHo is willing to say "yes, my husband is cheating, but he is not in his right mind, so I've got to give him a pass, as painful as it is...." Who is willing to say "I'm growing and learning and I have a life outside of my husband, but I still think of him daily, and why shouldn't I? We are in crisis... if he had cancer, it would be my main focus.... how could it not be?" Yet, I would find time for me to regroup, rest and think.... Who is willing to say "It is HIS life, HIS crisis and there's not much I can do about it, but I'm not afraid to say I love him and I wish he were home and not at OW's..... I wish he weren't depressed because I know how long this crisis can last, and it's hard....It's hard on me and our kids.... and it's hard on him..... and no one understands"
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Who is willing to say "It is HIS life, HIS crisis and there's not much I can do about it, but I'm not afraid to say I love him and I wish he were home and not at OW's..... I wish he weren't depressed because I know how long this crisis can last, and it's hard....It's hard on me and our kids.... and it's hard on him..... and no one understands"
LG - this is such a lonely path.
I've been socialising more lately, and I find it fun but harder in many ways because I get the ' Oh I heard you and your H have split. He's an absolute idiot ' speech. I sigh and pretty much say what you said above.
I then get 'the look' from them - I don't think anyone understands unless they've walked this path.
In fact, I think, if this was one of my friends, I doubt that I'd get it either - without having experienced it myself.
Keep the faith - there are many of us who believe in MLC. Maybe that's one of the hardest things for us to learn. Just because we don't have hundreds backing us - it doesn't make us wrong.
Keep on keeping on LG - you're doing great :)
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LG - I give you the honor of "Post of the Day" as that was truly eloquent. You make your points well, and remind all of us that we are living in a world that much of the world does not even acknowledge. You really do have to walk in our shoes to believe this is real and that it isn't a joke. Great points and well put.
Bravo, LG!!
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LettingGo,
That was very well put. It is a hard lonely journey. I have days where I feel like there is no point in standing - the exhaustion just get too much. Your plan of taking the time to acknowledge the hurt and pain, is a good one.
I do believe my H is having an MLC. Will we reconcile? Who knows. But I love my husband, I know he is not in his "right" mind. I see him struggle with everyday interactions - this is not obvious to everyone else but sometimes (most times) he makes illogical choices that he sees as normal - when he has to deal with either me or our children.
Unlike you, at this point, I do not have to deal with H having a public relationship with OW. In fact, only a few people know we are separated and it has been a little over a year since he left.
This is hard. Really, really, hard. I am/was codependent even though my H is not an alcoholic. My father was and I guess I learned my lessons well while growing up.
I am slowly but surely healing myself, and at the end of the day I can see that there is the possibility of a mature, loving relationship with my H. I have no idea if my H will ever come to this conclusion, but if he doesn't, I will still love him.
I do have the example of my parents who were married young, my mom was 16, my dad 18. They survived my fathers alcoholism, and created a relationship that endured until the day my dad passed away. This is what I want - I know it is possible to go through hell and come out with a great relationship.
Bottom line, I stand for my marriage because, like you, I see how much I have grown, I see what the future could hold, and I want that future.
Thank you for your post. You were able to put into words exactly how I feel. This is my life, others can judge me if they want, but I am standing for what I believe my future will be.
STC
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For me, both are hard but the EA is hardest. What I find difficult to understand is how my H can say he loves OW yet he's living at home with us. He actually moved home to "be a family" as he put it. When I think about him having sex with ANY one else, I get sick to my stomach because that was what we shared and I feel like he's taking something that is meant for me and giving it to someone else. It sounds selfish, but it's how I feel. But the EA is hard because I know how much he loved (or maybe even still loves) me. He will even say he loves me and that I am his family, but that he's just not in love with me (whatever the hell that means).
He's had other PA's while still having the EA/PA with OW which sickens me more (trying not to be judgmental). So like I said before, they are both hard, but for me, EA is probably the hardest because he told ME he'd love me forever.
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Before I found out about OW my H told me he did not love me the same as he did before. He saw me more like a sister. This hurt me the most because I felt he really had lost his feelings for me. When I found out about OW and his EA/PA I was actually quite relieved because I knew the love he had for me was not totally lost and that it was because of OW and his MLC that he could not feel anything for me.
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WOW, Chloe!! Your husband is really confusing!! He knows deep down inside where he belongs, but he has compartmentalized and found this other person to try out his new personas with.... :o :o :o
It's really tough to have them home while they are "dating" OW... really, really tough. They just cannot see the problem, though the guilt will get them eventually... give it time. All I can say is, from listening to what my husband says in the moments he is willing to answer my questions, they KNOW OW is nothing to them... because she is nothing to THEM, they cannot TRULY grasp YOUR pain over it... it is a SERIOUS disconnect...SERIOUS!!
You look at them like "How would you feel if the tables were turned?" and they say "I wouldn't like it" and the unspoken words are "But don't try and stop me, cuz I can't. Please let me just do what I need to do. I'll make it up to you later... whatever that means..."
They lead dual lives, but in their minds, they have their FAMILY.... number one importance.... then they have their LIFE.... equally as important....
It would be GREAT if we could magically compartmentalize like they do until they are through all of this.... to really feel CONFIDENT that they place us above the other dalliance, but even then, it's yucky to say the least.... it just is.
Good think MLC doesn't last forever, LOL!!
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I agree with you , LettingGo. Too bad we can't compartmentalize. Maybe then things would be a little easier for us to except. And that is EXACTLY how he sees things....he has his "family" and he has his "life". He has actually told me that he could care less if OW left him or not. All he cares about are our sons. He said he didn't care if I told him to leave or if I left even though either way he'd always be there for me......confusing, I know.
Tonight was a perfect example of how he would feel if the tables were turned. I received a phone call from one of my staff. The phone is in her brother's name so therefore her brother's name is what came up on the caller ID. The last name of the brother is different from hers because she goes by her married name. He saw the name on the caller ID and asked who was the guy I was talking to and why was the call so quick (we were on the phone for about 2 minutes). Of course I was confused especially since following the call I had a call from my sister and that was the last call that I was thinking about when he asked the question. I told him I didn't know who he was talking about so he had our 6 year old son bring him the phone. He scrolled through the caller ID and then handed me the phone and again asked who it was. I said "oh, that's just -----. That's her brother's name that you're reading. You know him. That's ------." He immediately tried to play it off saying that he wasn't sure if that was our 6 year old's teacher calling (the 2 last names are NOTHING alike). I brushed it off.....but was rolling with laughter in my head. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hey Chloe,
My W asks our D10 every time they're together who I've been hanging out with and if I've mentioned the names of any of my friends to her. I overheard her asking her the other day who all I've been talking to. She even told D10 at one point that I was seeing someone!! Total insanity, and I wonder how many of her co-workers and friends think I'm some kind of womanizer.
Or maybe they think I'm in MLC!!!
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It amazes me how they think it's okay for them to be in a PA, an EA, or both. But if we were to get into a friendship with someone well then that would just be horrible! Talk about being hypocrits.
Thundarr, your wife has no business asking your kids about who you've been talking to. Of course, you know that, but it just irks me.
Something I've realized is that if my H were in a true emotional relationship with OW, he wouldn't have come back. She's just a toy to get him through his "tough times" while he enjoys the "spice of life". And yes, I quote these sayings because he's actually said them.
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wow, Chloe...wow.
Lettinggo - that comment on new personas was VERY profound, newbies should think a little bit about that comment, there is a lot of wisdom behind hit. For example:
I saw my ex take on different personas w/ each of her two OMs and a few of her new friends..I think a lot of these MLCers have some identity issues to say the least. First OM she was a sports nut all of a sudden, second one she turned into a redneck (and dropped the sports). She liked certain things that this/that friend liked doing. Now, the people in her 'old life' (our long time friends) ALSO took note of this...and eventually she wrote them off too.
just to share a story in hopes of making chloe/thundarr laugh, regarding us seeing other people, right after my ex moved out, she told me that I'd have to tell her if I started seeing anyone. I looked at her, kinda tilted my head, and said 'really? but you didn't think you needed to tell me about an affair'? She quickly changed the subject and left. Then, eventually I did start seeing someone (a story for another thread! lol) and she once brought me over a gift and card. I left it on a little table near my door...then next day the ex came over to get the kids, she's not allowed in my house normally but it was cold out and I let her come in, and im certain she saw the card...and had a minor meltdown, started crying, ran out...I didnt know what was going on and went out to see what was wrong - thought she was hurt or something, i didnt know but then figured she saw the card. Funny thing is, the girl I was seeing gave me the card and kind of made a disclaimer on how all the cards were over the top romantically - since we had really just met (it was christmas I believe)..she didnt want me to think she was coming on too strong, in other words.