Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: hyperglad on September 10, 2011, 05:35:55 PM
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I was just reading Lisa Lives post where she says she wanted to continue post ...especially to show if she did things wrong to help newbies.
I thought this would make a good thread for us all to document what we have done wrong...hopefully enabling others to avoid what we have done and to also make newbies realise we have all done what know we shouldn't have, even after getting great advice from here.
For me I guess my main one was impatience and as soon as my H made any progress towards me I would try and reel in the fish way way too soon...he of course would fight for his life to escape, this went on even after he moved out.
i remember after he was in his cave for about 5 weeks he was here most of the time so I said...right tell the landlord you no longer need it and come home, at the time he said OK. Then the next few days he went quiet...then we had an almighty row and he said...I will give it up when i am good and ready...18 mths on i think he meant it ;)
I now see this as controlling , where as at the time I thought it was caring..
I am sure I have many others too ;)
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Hi Hyper
good idea starting this. Im still only 4mths post BD and I guess my personality type has prevented me from doing the chasing and reeling type thing and the pleading, begging. I have cried on occassion thou right at the start of this mess.
The thing I have done and have to guard against doing it wanting to rescue!. WHen H ha a problem I want to swoop in and help. Like when he called up crying he was broke. Iasked if he wanted me toi go over and then I met him and gave him $200. BEEP! wrong move
I do have to remind myself not to try and be a fixer. For one it is enabling and H wont do his journey on his own. For another Im exhibiting a behaviour that used to tick him off when he was at home
Note to self: I am NOT his mummy
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Gosh HG, how much time do you have?
Don't try to "reason" with them or even explain why you feel the way you do. They won't understand it and see it as controlling.
I've written this some where before, but my H told me that when I told him I did not agree to a divorce, it was the wrong thing to say at the time. I think RCR has written it some place, but it's not necessary to communicate your stand. In the beginning it can back fire on you. Once again, they see it as controlling.
Don't take a family vacation the week before they plan to move out. I say this in jest, a bit, but vacations are hard as our expectations get raised. I thought I was doing it for our kids, but I secretly hoped it would turn things around. Think long and hard about a vacation with the MLCer.
Don't contact the OP. I didn't do this, but I know it's a mistake.
My number one rule for myself was, and this was NOT a mistake: don't do anything you will not be willing to tell your spouse if/when they return.
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Wow the holiday thing is a good one.... we have had three family vacations through this,the first two with H...and as you say i thought he would realise what he had and was missing...WRONG...the third we took without him and he took great trouble to tell me how much he didn't miss us Hmmmmmm ::)
The other thing is don't ask questions in a way that evokes an answer you don't want to hear hoping for the answer you desire ie i would say, you don't really want to be here do you....hoping for I do i really do...and he would say No I don't think I do...then I would be devastated...JUST DON'T DO IT
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What an OUTSTANDING idea Hyperglad.... we should STICKY this thread, keep it going.
I did absolutely everything all of you have said, NOT TO DO, hehehe! The reasoning is hopeless and pointless, not only do they think it is controlling but they actually twist it around and use it against you, later. :o Omg, making statements and hoping my h would denounce them as silliness on my part, as in, "of course I want to be here with you.... " I was really slow, learning that one.
Biggest mistake of all! NOT LETTING GO! I know it's hard but honestly... the longer and harder you hold on... the LONGER they remain in MLC. I think it actually REASSURES them, take as long as you need darling, I am here, waiting for you. BAD! BAD! BAD!
I think we are as RELUCTANT to truly look within, as our MLC'er is. I am convinced if we spent half as much time trying to figure out why we can't let go, as we do trying to figure out how we can get them back, MOST OF US, would be out of this and on our way to happiness. The way I look at it people, what is there to be AFRAID OF? Are you enjoying your lives the way they are now? I expect not. You know what your life is like now, you know that if you CONTINUE TO do what you are doing, it will SIMPLY be more of the same. How can doing what you know you must, be more frightening then living the way you are now, INDEFINITELY?
hugs Stayed
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Ok Stayed - you're an expert on this one ;)
What will we be doing when we have LET GO?
I never ever ever ever contact my H. He contacts me, almost daily. Should I stop replying?
Do you mean split things up financially? Is that Letting go?
Do you mean making plans to be elsewhere for Christmas? Christmas without them? Is that letting go?
Ummm ..... there must be other things ???
Actually - I haven't read these in a very long time. Just found the 'Releasers' in the Self Focus section of the articles. I'll start there
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Tomorrow will be 4 months post BD. I made some huge mistakes in the past 4 months. I forgot that in their MLC mind, they change every day, hour, and minute.
H was asking a few weeks ago about MLC and how to get through it. I told him each person gets through it differently and that his journey would be his own. I listened, validated, and responded when he asked a question. Everything went well.
Two days later, I found an article I thought would interest him. It was about one man's journey through MLC. I shared it with him. He listened or seemed to listen. Later, he was quiet and we talked and I told him that if I begin to say something that he does not want to hear, just tell me. He responded with "Why did you even think that I would be interested in it?". I told him that he was asking about it two days ago, and I thought it would would be interesting to him. He said "That was 2 days ago, you should have shared it with me then."
A few months ago, H informed me that he was holding me back. The next day I told him that I have never felt that he was holding me back and I asked him what he thought he was holding me back from. He shruged and said "You should have asked me when I said it." I told him I did ask him, but that he had gone off about something else instead of answering my question.
I guess what I am saying is that one of the biggest mistakes I found is that during communication, their brain is from moment to moment. Now I realize that what ever conversation is going on with my MLCer is taking place at that time, and the subject of that communication is only valid for that specific time period (within that hour). Even waiting an hour later to bring something back up is risky... Their minds have moved on, or they have forgotten (or pushed away) what has transpired.
Summer
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Oh boy!! Big list!
Mistakes ... all of the above crying, pleading, trying to make him see reason, giving him stuff to read about love, depression, honour, guilt, divorce and the effects on children, even making him come home when he left in Jan 2010 ... I should have let him go them instead of waiting till Feb 2011, when I had to push him out! (that wasn't a mistake though)
Telling him once in May 2011 that I still love him ... I shouldn't have ... it gave him permission to continue with his crazy life knowing I'd still be here.
Trying to help him to get a better relationship with his children (although I did this for them, not him ), but I think it was still a mistake.
Telling him he's wrong about things (even when I know he is!) he just can't take being told off ... he's a child. Having expectations, allowing him to come in to our lives before he was ready to be back. Not letting go.
Probably loads more ... I have a whole file full of stuff I gave him to read, and he did read some of it in 2010, but it was all a mistake, he couldn't get any meaning from it.
Ah well, we all make mistakes, but I think we all should also realise that our mistakes are usually made through love, for the right reasons. The MLCers mistakes are also very many and varied, and are made through blindness, selfishness and fear. Their mistakes have worse consequences.
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Kikki, what does letting go look like?
You have children yes? Sometimes, we have to simply let them crash and burn, don't we? This is one of those situations. This letting go is watching from AFAR... as far as possible actually.
I have a sister who is an alcoholic! We have tried everything to get her off the booze. NOTHING! Now, my siblings and I, stand back and watch, without criticism, without judgement. We simply watch and wait for the time that she will need us to help pick her up. We all pray it will happen like that, that we will be given the joy, the opportunity to help her when she asks but none of us are holding our breath. We honestly never expect her to give up the drink, we all hope but our expectations are zero.
We will always be there for her. That's how I felt about my h when I detached. I didn't want to be near him, or with him when he was in full blown MLC but I knew in my heart, I would ALWAYS be there for him, if he ever called on me. I had much to thank my h for, our 5 wonderful children and all these wonderful grandchildren we are being blessed with, is ONLY one example. That being said, if he could not have found his way back to being a PARTNER to me, then I had no choice but to continue to move forward. Hopefully, learning my lessons well and preparing me for the future.
Does that shed any light on what I think LETTING GO looks like?
hugs Stayed...
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I am glad I inspired something others view as positive--that's kinda rare for me here!
I said that, but I don't know the answer. I don't think any of us will really know until the story ends, and that's why I'll keep posting.
I did the crying and pleading thing, but for me it was the reasoning efforts that probably went on too long, especially considering this is a man who even in the best of times did not communicate on an emotional level. However, I don't regret it. I know it did no good, and may have done some damage, but for six months I wrote LONG essays about what I thought he was doing and what I thought about our life, our marriage, etc. ... But, I am in a better place because I did it, so mistake or not, I needed it, or I would not be able to heal. Since he won't communicate, I needed to know that I "plead my case" in the only way I could and did everything I thought I could to try to save my family.
I could not have gone NC without explaining everything that was in my head and heart. But now when he chastises me for anything won't do I can say, "I am sorry, but I have told you, I love you, I am sorry you don't understand, but I will not be your friend until you are mine and what you are asking for is not an obligation but a friend privilege, and without reciprocity there will be no privleges granted." I don't say that in the same way every time, obviously, but it's my coaching refrain--what runs through my head when I explain yet again why I don't discuss things like which basketball team our kid should be on, or how many pairs of shoes a teen really needs... Because every conversation we have ends up with me being a bad wife and parent... Apparently I needed to get that off my chest, I am a little annoyed tonight because exH has, yet again changed the custody schedule...
Anyway that was a lot of nothing about nothing, but what I was really going to say was I have no idea what mistakes I have made but if anyone else has noted them, feel free to post them, I am not sensitive! Lisa
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But now when he chastises me for anything won't do I can say, "I am sorry, but I have told you, I love you, I am sorry you don't understand, but I will not be your friend until you are mine and what you are asking for is not an obligation but a friend privilege, and without reciprocity there will be no privleges granted."
This is really good!
Good job!
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LL - I too wrote long essays about our lives, marriage, kids and the effect on all of these because of his actions.
I know I went on for too long, BUT I also don't regret it. I also told him 'I don't buy it' when he blamed me for everything.
I have always trusted my gut instinct and gone with whatever felt right.
I did eventually learn to zip it quite a long time ago, but it is interesting how often my H now refers to these early conversations.(monologues I guess :) )
'I knew you'd understand because of everything that you've been saying these past months/years' etc when he's admitting he's stuffed up (for two seconds before cycling back into fog and denial).
He also said that once I stopped talking, he was able to start thinking.
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But now when he chastises me for anything won't do I can say, "I am sorry, but I have told you, I love you, I am sorry you don't understand, but I will not be your friend until you are mine and what you are asking for is not an obligation but a friend privilege, and without reciprocity there will be no privleges granted."
I agree, this is wonderful -- I'm writing it down to remember it!
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Big Mistake..I snooped and looked at his email, got really hurt and told him. He now says he is filing for divorce. And this is after I'm one year into this. I should have had more control...now I have regrets and have probably lost him forever. This just happened yesterday.
Newbies...Don't do what I did.
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Wondering, don't beat yourself up. People have made worse mistakes, I know a woman who shot her husband and tried to have someone else kill him--and they reconciled! Of course they're both crazy, so maybe that's not saying much, but people make big mistakes and recover and some people do everything right and still lose everything. Give yourself a break, learn from it and move on. Perhaps you needed that hurt to move on, who knows, but just let it go and things will get better. Lots of positive energy to you today. But it almost could not have happened on a better day. Ten years ago, thousands of people lost everything, their lives, people they love, their faith and trust and security. You are not in that position, so count your blessings because you do have lots! Happiness is a choice, believe it, Lisa
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BULL TWEET wondering... he's MLC... wait 24 hours, he won't even remember saying it.
Hugs Stayed...
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Lisa I have to say i have loved your posts...your honest forthwright views, your decision not to stand...your scientific perspective, TBH if my H married someone or even moved in with OW long term...i would most probably (who really knows though) be right there with you. I know I would probably seek revenge and want to parade a younger , fitter guy with more money in front of my MLC's, anyone know one he he ...naughty Hyper ;D ;D ;D
We need all kinds of opinions/views/perspectives that's what makes this site great...often when we are so close to our own sitchs we can't see the woods for the trees...i for one welcome all responses on my thread so feel free to post on mine 2 x 4 inclusive ;D
I might not always take the advice but often it will make me consider a different option. As long as they are said with the best intentions and are objective and not personal (does that make sense, even thought it is personal if you get me :o )
I say keep them coming
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What I notice about MLCers is that they forget things very quickly and change their minds quickly too. So perhaps the best thing you can do is pretend the whole thing never actually happend. After a while something new will probably get stuck into his head. Just continue.....as they say when you fall down just pick yourself up and continue your journey.
Take care
HUGS
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This is the third time, I have tried to respond to your question Kikki.
Going to New Zealand was the smartest thing I ever did for myself. First it got me out of the faces of my children. They were hurting so badly for me, as my mother had just passed away, I had nursed her through to the end and their father was lost somewhere on the Goodship Lala Land. They wanted to help me, knew they couldn't. I just couldn't bare putting them through this anymore. They were ages 19 - 26 at the time. Oldest two had just married, less then a year. Oldest daughter had miscarried that Christmas and had found out she was pregnant again. She certainly did not need the stress. This was not a good start to their marriages.
I was working 3 jobs when I met my husband back in 1976. I had heard that if you took a lot of money to New Zealand you could live like a queen. I was fixing to have myself the adventure of my life. Then my h came into my life. By June of 1977, I was Mrs. Stayed. New Zealand was my unfulfilled dream.
Going to New Zealand was my stand. I was finished being dominated/controlled by my husbands crisis. I was determined to find the strong, capable, independent woman I was before I became Mrs. Stayed, mother of 5, officer's wife... blah, blah... blah. Before I handed over my identity and life. I felt so weak, powerless, I knew I had to figure out how I had gotten into such a pathetic state.
The beauty of N.Z., he couldn't simply grab a flight and chase me down. Believe me, my h was quite capable of that. Also, he was a needy clinger. He needed to know I was there for him, whenever he wanted to come home. Somehow, I always knew that. I think if I had not vacated my post, of being where he had LEFT ME... I doubt we would have reconciled. Of course, I don't know that but in my heart of heart, I really believe that. I had to find ME. He had to find HIMSELF. WE could not do that as long as we could cling to each other.
He still sent emails. Of which I devoured daily. Bullcrap stuff, all along the same lines as his calls on the phone were. "Let me fix myself... please give me more time to fix myself". I read them, but never answered them. I did send him pictures of all the wonderful places I was visiting and exciting adventures I was having. Embellishing them, for sure, but I was having a good time, just not nearly as much as I would have had almost 30 years prior to that, hehehe. He would send emails begging for a way to call me. I ignored all of those requests. Pictures of my adventures and responses to birthday gifts etc. for the children. Both of us got a great deal of pleasure out of the ultra sound pictures of our first grandchild, that generated a lot of emails back and forth, but I would not enter into anything personal. Although, I did start sending him emails about my memories of our life together. Nostalgic things... quite inspired I thought... hehehe.
I returned from N.Z. because he was harassing our oldest daughter. That story is all on my thread. I returned to Canada and proceeded to get on with my life. Bought a new car. Furniture for the house. I was looking at buying a smaller CONDO type place, sell the big family home we had. I saw a lawyer. Started the process of SEPARATING our assets and putting MY financial house in order.
I was moving on. I had no intentions of dating. I was just too vulnerable and I knew it, but I was restless to take my life back and all my actions showed that I was going to have it back... WHATEVER IT TOOK!
Believe me, I was not faking this. This is something one cannot fake. My actions were all about ME and my h knew it. He claims it scared him and I suspect it did. Stupidly, we reconnected too early, but with him in Europe and me in Canada, I guess neither of us felt we had much choice but to go for it.
For us, it worked out. It sure wasn't easy. Lot's and lot's of mistakes.
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Ooooh mistakes... don't get me started.
Wondering, I also snooped big time. H couldn't see that he was doing anything wrong (he was lying, flirting, talking about me, sharing private letters from D20), mine was the bigger crime.
The first time I screamed at him because of OW, and he said "right, we need to divorce", I cried, pulled all my clothes off, and threatened to jump out of the window (tenth floor). I'm the queen of mistakes and uncool.
I tried to give him ultimatums.... her or me. Doesn't work.
I begged him to work on our M, to make some type of promise to me. I cried.
I invaded his space.
Opposite type of mistake: I tried to tolerate his comings and goings, act like going out with OW didn't matter. I was kidding myself, and couldn't keep it up. NC would have been more effective (although at the time I really needed a few months more stability until I'd finished my thesis).
The best thing I ever did was to finish my thesis; I also made sure I went away frequently, and to leave him alone in charge of the kids; I had weekends with friends, Buddhist weekends, weekends travelling. It gave me a life apart from home and work, and put the shoe on the other foot (he could feel like what it was like without me, with all the responsibilities of the house). I also had a fantastic 50th party, and all HIS family travelled a long way to be with me. I felt appreciated, loved, and he could see that, too. Taking fluoxetine (prozac) was also very helpful in overcoming the devastating effects of BD. Of course, detaching, stopping being a pursuer, listening, validating, and letting go were also important.
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I did em all too Mermaid, accept stripping naked and threatening to jump out a window on the 10th. floor. You win....hehehe.
hugs Stayed...
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oh SO many mistakes in the last few months, but thank goodness, not weeping/begging. He knows (I told him this ) that if he wanted to go I wouldn't stop him. He's living with us at home but is on a withdrawl cycle again (sleeping on the sofa) THIS time I'm not suggesting /nagging that he come up to bed I just leave him to it.(and imagine he's a distant lodger) If he gets grumpy I walk away. I instigate no R talk, I have lowered my expectations to 0 (well not quite 0 but getting there) I'm learning to not absorb his monster spewing/projecting. I'm developing my independance WITh him here (easier when he was away) I feel much stronger than a few months ago (I got a life) .I spied initially but that didn't help, it just muddies things , and if they are having a PA/EA there is NOTHIng that you can do and they will defend their friend. So i'm learning to distance myself and still be here, I don't instigate any physical contact, I'm trying to not "nurture/mother" but become a more balanced part of the marriage. and I will not say I love him anymore, not until I feel it is safe to do so, but of course I do love him.
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Wow, mb, I am impressed.... well done!
hugs Stayed...
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Of Course I went to OW house twice... :( but first time she baited me on FB telling me to get a life...so I went for a life hers ha ha not recommended but it did make me feel better when she locked herself in he he
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Hyper - that is so funny! The classic thing NOT to do - and you had the guts to do it ....... ;D
OW was obviously desperate for me to do that and cause a scene - my H told me on a few occasions that she was scared that I would do something like that! She talked about it frequently ......
Meaning - she would do something like that - and so she probably will get to do something like that in the future :o
Stayed - thanks so much for your response to my question about how you Let your H go.
Much to think about
:)
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Big Mistake..I snooped and looked at his email, got really hurt and told him. He now says he is filing for divorce. And this is after I'm one year into this. I should have had more control...now I have regrets and have probably lost him forever. This just happened yesterday.
Newbies...Don't do what I did.
I made much bigger mistakes than you. 1 month after BD (March), I confronted both my h & co-worker OW1 at their dinner date at her house against all my friends' advice. OW1 was too ashamed to continue the relationship with my h and ended it. H asked for divorce the 2nd day, and then told me he didn't want D about 2 weeks later. 3 month after BD (May), I accidently found out that OW2 was spending the night at h's apartment, again I couldn't control may rage and confronted both of them (ow2 was half naked, I am still disgusted and scared to this day). H really wanted D this time, and pressured me for a few weeks. I told him that I didn't want to discuss it until I was more emotionally stable and went very very dark. Sep is the time which I told him that I would discuss D with him, he has not come to me yet. Not sure if he has changed his mind about D or is avoiding conflicts.
Your occasional mistake probably doesn't make any difference in his journey, so don't beat yourself up. Sometimes we can't do the right thing (even though we know what's the right thing to do) until we make the mistake and learn our lesson.
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I also confronted OW, and told her exactly what I thought of her, when she was having a cozy dinner with H, alone, at my daughter's apartment. She tried to leave, saying "I don't deserve this", but I chased her down a corridor as she tried to escape, saying "Don't deserve it? Ha! I haven't even started yet"
When H tried to intervene, I told him I'd speak to him when he grew up. And I told him later to pack his bags and leave-
It felt good at the time, but didn't help. OW used some of my comments as a way of flattering herself and H (I'd said she was too awful to have friends her own age). She told H that men her own age (26) were just so immature, so she felt so much happier in his company. She also said that she didn't trust me at all, as I was capable of anything.
H said he thought I was always so unreasonably aggressive to OW. Yeah. I should invite her to be a guest speaker at a dinner for LBS in Portugal, and see what happens...
In short, it was temporarily cathartic, but in the long term, didn't help me, H or our M.
Newbies... another one to avoid.
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In short, it was temporarily cathartic, but in the long term, didn't help me, H or our M.
Newbies... another one to avoid.
So True! I felt good to relese my anger at the time (that was my excuse to do it), but in the long term, didn't help me, H or our M (as Mermaid put it), and I am permanently scared by the picture of half naked ow2 in my head.
Don't confront.
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When I confronted half naked ow2 in h's apartment, she had no shame at all. She extended her hand to me and said "it was nice meeting you". Also said "he is not with you anymore", and feel very justified to sleep with a married man. I felt like wathcing a soap opera. After that incident, I finally figured out that what's happening is totally out of my controrl, and I was able to let go and slowly detach.
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What an OUTSTANDING idea Hyperglad.... we should STICKY this thread, keep it going.
I did absolutely everything all of you have said, NOT TO DO, hehehe! The reasoning is hopeless and pointless, not only do they think it is controlling but they actually twist it around and use it against you, later. :o Omg, making statements and hoping my h would denounce them as silliness on my part, as in, "of course I want to be here with you.... " I was really slow, learning that one.
Biggest mistake of all! NOT LETTING GO! I know it's hard but honestly... the longer and harder you hold on... the LONGER they remain in MLC. I think it actually REASSURES them, take as long as you need darling, I am here, waiting for you. BAD! BAD! BAD!
I think we are as RELUCTANT to truly look within, as our MLC'er is. I am convinced if we spent half as much time trying to figure out why we can't let go, as we do trying to figure out how we can get them back, MOST OF US, would be out of this and on our way to happiness. The way I look at it people, what is there to be AFRAID OF? Are you enjoying your lives the way they are now? I expect not. You know what your life is like now, you know that if you CONTINUE TO do what you are doing, it will SIMPLY be more of the same. How can doing what you know you must, be more frightening then living the way you are now, INDEFINITELY?
hugs Stayed
STAYED is giving good advice here...everyone...and I do agree that paving the way is important but I think in certain situations the FEAR of not paving the way may hold and LBS back. STAYED has articulated very well the things I have observed in my journey...for the longest time I was FAKING let him go but you come to a point on the journey...and for everyone it is different...where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them. I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....and you can do this amazingly even if you have contact and kids but it takes a lot of mental strength and confidence which developes over time...but the sooner the LBS can let go the better....and I don't know why I just know it's what I've seen too...and you really have nothing to lose cuz the MLCer is faaaaaaaaaaaaaar gone anyway and for the LBSs sake and for the families sake and for financial sake someone must move forward...someone must let go...it takes GUTS to let go .....it reallly does....and I think some can even do this while living with the MLCer...I couldn't but maybe some could like SL...but letting go is a state of mind and has nothing to do with distance or contact...although NC helped me detach at certain points...anyway...I"m rambling but pay attention to stayed's words here....
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where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them. I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....
Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.
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I made them all:
I believed my ex when she said the OM was just a friend
I believed a trial separation would save our marriage
I believed I was different from everyone else, thought my marriage was too good and she’d snap out of this any second.
I believed (at first) I was the problem, that it was my fault and surely my wife ‘traded up’ with the OM.
I believed I needed to appease her.
I believed her lies.
I believed that as long as I kept her out of the lawyers office, and out of court, and said ‘lets just consider ourselves divorced’ that she’d thank me for saving our marriage.
I told her she was having an MLC.
I contacted the OM.
Some good advice, Buggy/stayed - I think by really truly letting them go, truly detaching, the MLC starts to end. At least for us - I think WE can end this anytime we want.
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Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.
AnneJ - I guess this is where 'everyone is an individual' comes in.
Sounds like you did a great job of letting your H go. Hasn't seemed to snap your H out of anything so far ......
Would this be your experience? Just wondering ..
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Sounds like you did a great job of letting your H go. Hasn't seemed to snap your H out of anything so far ......
Would this be your experience? Just wondering ..
Kikli i think the point of this is not to snap them out of it but to get to a point where you are OK either way if they come back or not, as they truly are not with you anyhow.
I know I still have some fear of fully letting go but i am slowly getting there. I admit i get comfort from H being here and i fear telling him not to come here anymore, not because he will go to OW because that holds no fear anymore, I know she is nothing, but because I miss his presence even though often when he comes he annoys the hell out of me because it is still all about him. My H is charming M so no nastiness unless backed into a corner.
I consider I am paving the way but I do also think I am prolonging this as there is no incentive for my H to make a decision as he is happy doing what he is. I have to get strong enough to make this final move...and yes this is about me now..but i am hoping it wont be much longer as I am not liking my sitch at present even though it is a lot like it was before all this if that makes sense.
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Hyper - yes you're right about that. But wouldn't you just love to apply a firm smack to the side of their heads sometimes - to see if anything shifts in there??
Okay - I'll restrain myself :)
I'm a bit like you. I too like seeing my H, even in this detached state. He too is nice to be around unless backed into a corner.
The small crumbs seem to be better than nothing - that is what I'm also fearful of - dropping the rope entirely. I know I have to.
I'm trying to pluck up the courage to say that the boys and I want to go a few hundred miles away from him for Christmas - to spend it with my Mum and siblings. I know he'll be heartbroken. Should I care? No! Do I care - yes! Should I do it anyway - probably ......
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Mistakes? Lots, I'm sure. Thing is about mistakes, like what did "right", is that sometimes they are only apparent in hindsight.
Such as Mermaid's rant at the OW -- at the time I actually thought it was good, and to tell you the truth still do -- it was honest. I see now that she says that it didn't help anything, but it did seem to be a situation that needed a strong response.
Even RCR says that a b!tc#-mode vent can be useful. It's just permanently staying in b!tc# mode that is harmful.
Of course we can look back and see where we were less than perfect, where something different would have been better. I have "perfect" responses in my head to all sorts of situations, but IRL they just don't come out that way. Well, sometimes they do, but IRL emotions get in the way. We're human.
As for my own mistakes? That would be doing too much "strategy". Doing things in order to get him to do things, rather than for myself. I even told him that I was planning to date. What was most wrong with that was that it was done in order to make him think, rather than because I was done standing. Manipulation never works, and can backfire. That may have set us back ages, as I'm still in this after more than 4 years. That was over 2 years ago, before I ever found RCR's site and way before this forum existed.
I think I did a lot "right" instinctively soon after BD, but I just didn't appreciate how long this takes, and, on the advice of a very pro-marriage counselor, started doing all sorts of "strategies". To give the C the huge credit he is due, a lot were good, and were what is recommended here. The difference was that he didn't accept MLC, nor the time this could take, and as it all went on he got very frustrated with H, as did I.
Which brings me to my other mistake category, which was looking at someone else's "strategy" and trying to apply it wholesale to my own sitch.
And the last thing was how long it took me to learn to look at this as though through a window, or rather look at H that way, and not try to fix everything.
So a lot -- I don't know if I'm still here because of all my mistakes, or if this just takes this long. I think back to my own "early - life" crisis, and really, it's hard to say if I would have gone through it any faster if others around me had done things differently. But I do know that back then I had to go all the way through it all; had I not, I'm sure I would have gone back and made more of a mess at another point.
Oh, and perhaps talking (and writing) a lot is another fault?? :)
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where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them. I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....
Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.
Not being CONNECTED, seems counter productive, but that is exactly where you want to be. Being unconnected allows you to view what your MLC'er is doing without inflicting PAIN on yourself. You are able to function again, breath, allow yourself to heal. Life is very interesting without the rose coloured glasses. Strength replaces fragility. Knowledge replaces vulnerability. Strength and knowledge beget power and self control. Doors open, opportunities present themselves!
Anne we don't need to know the outcome. The condition our spouses are in now, there is no OUTCOME obvious. Don't worry about your MLC'er, this is his/her crisis. Use this opportunity to find out, who you are. You are the key, for both of you actually. The only person you need to be connected to, is YOURSELF, all the rest will fall in place, in time.
hugs Stayed
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Stayed - after my last post, I just had a very good example of what you are talking about.
What I miss is my old H, or the thought of the potential future H, not the person he is in crisis.
He sent me a txt a couple of hours ago, asking to come and pick something up for his work trip away in the morning. I tried to fob him off but he was insistent.
He arrived after a big day at work - he was tired, irritable and tetchy. Tried to make himself seem more important than me, which has been a recurring pattern for the couple of years before he left. YUCK!!
It really, really sunk in how unappealing this version of this man is.
OW is welcome to him - it can't be much fun for her these days. She must see this version a lot these days.
Time to concentrate on me and leave him to it - great advice
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Stayed - after my last post, I just had a very good example of what you are talking about.
What I miss is my old H, or the thought of the potential future H, not the person he is in crisis.
He sent me a txt a couple of hours ago, asking to come and pick something up for his work trip away in the morning. I tried to fob him off but he was insistent.
He arrived after a big day at work - he was tired, irritable and tetchy. Tried to make himself seem more important than me, which has been a recurring pattern for the couple of years before he left. YUCK!!
It really, really sunk in how unappealing this version of this man is.
OW is welcome to him - it can't be much fun for her these days. She must see this version a lot these days.
Time to concentrate on me and leave him to it - great advice
Isn't that the truth, the more you see, the less you like... A woman on another thread said that she sent OW a lovely handwritten card thanking her for taking out her trash! Sometimes that's what I feel like. In the beginning I felt like I was the trash that he threw out, but more and more, I am in a much better place and I realize right now HE IS THE TRASH, and I should thank her for taking care of him in this state...
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A woman on another thread said that she sent OW a lovely handwritten card thanking her for taking out her trash! Sometimes that's what I feel like. In the beginning I felt like I was the trash that he threw out, but more and more, I am in a much better place and I realize right now HE IS THE TRASH, and I should thank her for taking care of him in this state...
Thank you LisaLives, I loved this! So true!
hugs Stayed
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AnneJ - I guess this is where 'everyone is an individual' comes in.
Sounds like you did a great job of letting your H go. Hasn't seemed to snap your H out of anything so far ......
Would this be your experience? Just wondering ..
Yes, I think I did a god job of letting my husband go. Maybe to god? ;D Nope, it did not snap him out of anything. I was much more attached to him during OW1, when he was a clinging boomerang/boomerang than since he vanished when OW2 come into play and I stop contact with him. So, giving him space did not made a difference to him. But it did a huge difference to me.
kikki, right now I don't know if I would still want so smack him to see what would come of it...maybe just let him be. I'll watch from a distance. If we manage to remove ourselves from the situation it can become quite funny to watch.
Of course I still have not so good days, but mostly, now, I look at this as a great adventure. The dangerous part is that I may had started to like this adventure too much... 8)
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where the FAKING stops and you really let go.....where you just see of very very very messed up they are and how VERY VERY VERY VERY far you must get away from them. I feel this strongly in my case ....STAY VERY FAR AWAY....
Thing is, from a certain point on you're not only staying very, very, far away from them, you become very far away from them. So far away that you can no longer see any connection.
Not being CONNECTED, seems counter productive, but that is exactly where you want to be. Being unconnected allows you to view what your MLC'er is doing without inflicting PAIN on yourself. You are able to function again, breath, allow yourself to heal. Life is very interesting without the rose coloured glasses. Strength replaces fragility. Knowledge replaces vulnerability. Strength and knowledge beget power and self control. Doors open, opportunities present themselves!
Anne we don't need to know the outcome. The condition our spouses are in now, there is no OUTCOME obvious. Don't worry about your MLC'er, this is his/her crisis. Use this opportunity to find out, who you are. You are the key, for both of you actually. The only person you need to be connected to, is YOURSELF, all the rest will fall in place, in time.
hugs Stayed
Stayed,
Thank you so much for your words. You'r right, I'm the only person I need to be connected with. I'm not worried with the outcome. Not any more. Whatever comes would be fine with me. What i have realised is that now I know what I need and want, and have boundaries. So, if returning husband does not fulfill them, he will not do. And I'm not worried with date at all.
Sounds a bit strange to had come to this point...but it feels good. :)
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Of course I still have not so good days, but mostly, now, I look at this as a great adventure. The dangerous part is that I may had started to like this adventure too much... 8)
That sounds like a great place to be ;)
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Putting up with his crap for too long ha ha ...time for change ;)
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Without a doubt hyper. If you let them take control, then don't be surprised if they run with it. The problem is, handing the reigns to an MLC'er is like allowing your 6 year old to plan all the meal menu's. Which is OK, I suppose, if you love chocolate and junk food!
hugs... Stayed...
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Hyperglad
I have no issue whatsoever with what you told him. That is your choice and perhaps sometimes things need to be said.
What I do want to remind you of is the process of MLC. You are 2.5 years post bomb drop.
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Yes, 2.5 years post BD means she could easily have to live with exactly what she has right now for another 2.5 years or longer, or figure out how to make life happier while he goes through his funk... Or whack him upside the head with the frying pan, this looks like a better option to me every day...
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"figure out how to make life happier while he goes through his funk"
I recommend this as soon as possible....and is a key piece of Standing.
Iron skillets are heavier.
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Personally I think you hold your ground. Concentrate on you. If you both finish your journeys at the same time... BINGO... pay dirt, provided of course, you each hold the other, to your NEW HIGHER STANDARD. If not, well too bad, so sad! At least one of you has grown up, learned a lot, determined what you are worth, what you want and not willing to settle for less.
STANDING and then ACCEPTING whatever comes out of it... in my opinion, is not an option. New spouse had better be one hell of an improvement over the old one.
hugs stayed
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DGU is right"figure out how to make life happier while he goes through his funk"
I tried the hitting him in the face and it didn't work. I am paying the consequences for my actions not him. Read my thread.
Take Care,
Searching
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Well TBH if he goes he goes...at the moment i don't care (new name maybe he he ) , of course I would prefer he woke up, presented me with a big bunch of Flowers, whisked me off to Paris for a romantic weekend but somehow, I cant see it happening...
what I did see happening was him knowing he was safe, safe to do whatever he wanted and i feel , even though OW is gone now, 2 months ago he connected again...and that was DISRESPCTFUL , MLC yes, but disrespectful never the less
It has made me think. I told him last night, go to her she is not the problem, that lies in you (of course he said i don't want to durr) ,
no R talk I know... DGU kill me now ha ha but tell you something i feel a lot better for being me for a change...sorry tight lipped Lizzy and putting up Petra just doesn't fit for me...I tried, i failed and i may live to regret it...But at least I now feel I can breathe again
We need TIME as OP says, the gift... but not together , not for now anyhow.
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"no R talk I know... DGU kill me now ha ha but tell you something i feel a lot better for being me for a change"
I have no issue with what you chose to say. My goal is to encourage and help educate about the MLC process in regard to time frame and acceptance.
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DGU I know and i find you links so useful, i was only kidding :).... I am doing this for me and I feel so much better TBH...may be a short fix but hey
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Mmmmmmmmmmmm lets see what mistakes have i made...........probably not kicking his head in and also castrating him cos lets face it he wouldn’t remember it was me would he lol :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o...............to be honest i cant think of a lot really apart from detaching sooner....... i feel we go through this journey and learn from our mistakes........if not how do we not know there mistakes until we've been through it.............people can tell us til their blue in the face but we don’t get it til we get it if that makes sense :o :o :o :o :o xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Mistakes - wow! I did the crying, pleading, begging. Wrote long letters, apologized for everything under the sun. All the classic newbie errors.
I am glad that I wrote the letters, it was a form of journaling that helped me to see the things that I really needed to work on for myself. I have done a lot of ME work.
I have really, really detached just in the last few weeks. The conversation with my H a few days ago, made me realize that I had detached. I am finally able to REALLY stand back and watch the show. This does not mean that I do not feel pain from the things he does and says - I have given my H lots, and lots, of my life - and he can still hurt me.
The difference now is that I KNOW I can make it without him. It is TRULY his loss. I also KNOW that this person is not the man that I married, I have not lost the dream of growing old with this person - I lost the dream with the man I married. I spent almost a year trying to figure out why what I was doing was not working and trying to get my H to respond to me the way he used to. I kept expecting him to "wake up" and be the man that I know. That man is gone and I do not know if he will be back.
So now it is truly all about ME. Beautiful, lovable, fun, happy, joyfull, laughing, strong, independent, ME! hehe. (a year ago I would not have given myself any of those attributes!) and if MY REAL H ever returns - we may have a shot at a future, but there is no way I am going back to what we had before.
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STC---
looooove what you wrote! that is awesome! ;D
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well said STC exactly how I feel :)
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Mistakes, I made SO, SO many. I was stubborn and thought I could "fix this" MLC. I have been on the forum since May 2010, and BD was August 2009. Just in the last few months have I started to finally get it. That is nearly 2 years from BD. I still get sucked into H's drama and he has swung from monster to seeming to come through the tunnel to monster to moving out after threats of over a year.
I still make mistakes, but the difference is that I don't beat myself up as I did for the mistakes. I did not rewrite our history, H did. I did not have the affair, H did, and I did not leave my wife and daughter, H did. I make plenty of mistakes. I came from a place of fear for so long, I didn't even know I was still so fearful. Now, I am not afraid. I am sad that my H is still so far gone, and who knows how long it will take him to come out (if he does). I am not waiting to live my life. I am living it and doing the things I want to and need to.
MLC is the most confusing, frustrating and painful experience of my life, but it also was the catalyst for the most dramatic growth and personal development I think I have ever experienced. Do I wish MLC had happened? No, but the insights, growth and confidence I have gained is so important.
I still have the "knowing" (as HB and RCR call it) that at some point my H and I will be back together. That intuition has never wavered. I have gotten worn out and felt like giving up, but I still "feel" that giving time, my H will start to come out of the tunnel. I am trying to be the lighthouse right now, but this lighthouse is shining and I am shining my light on me and making my life as good and happy and focused as I can. This little light of mine, I am going to let it shine!
Great idea for a topic!
Subooru
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Oh Sub I could have wrote every word as it all relates to me and my sitch and my OW BD was Aug 09 so I am too only just getting it... :)
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Subooru,
I agree with Hyper - this is the same with me.
Funny how as time goes on, us LBS seem to "get it" and then have our own script that we follow. LOL! I like this script much much better.
STC
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Sit back men and ladies. Let your MLC do whatever he is going to do. Why do you even bother to engage with him/her, you know they are full of sh*t... SO STOP ENGAGING THEM.
When they threaten divorce, tell them fine... "get on with it, you know how I feel about it, you want a divorce go get it". I don't think you people realize that in spite of your spouses horrible behaviour, they are aware of and afraid of losing you. Sure it doesn't seem like it, but if they wanted DONE with you, don't you think they would have DIVORCED you a long, long time ago?
Stop beating yourselves up for letting this go. It's done, over, but now you do KNOW... so from here on in, STOP LETTING THEM PULL YOUR STRINGS. Time to simply wave them off, "back to your cave little monster... shew, shew, I don't want to talk to you anymore"... and get on with YOUR LIFE.
Have you not figured it out yet... you are allowing children anywhere from the age of 6 or 7 to late teen, RUN YOUR LIVES! Step away people, think about this. Focus on yourselves and stop allowing a bunch of brats (spoiled brats) run your life.
hugs Stayed
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Bravo Stayed - I needed to read that. Love your messages :) :)
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From Stayed
"SO STOP ENGAGING THEM."
This is a key thing for the LBS to learn. Totally agree.
"get on with it, you know how I feel about it, you want a divorce go get it".
I would exercise caution here. Not all MLCers are threatening. I do not agree with pushing the MLCer. I would let the MLC know that you can't stop them, but you do not want a divorce and they must do it on their own.
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Dontgiveup:
It's not pushing when you have made it completely clear to your spouse that you have no desire to divorce. You have said it over and over. Often these spouses use that knowledge as a big, fat stick to keep us in line... "if you step on my toes, I'll divorce you".
They know we don't want a divorce, if we SECOND GUESS every word out of our mouths, then dontgiveup... I can't imagine what type of a conversation it would be. LBS standing there with "duck tape" over their mouths and MLC looking at us like we are crazy.
U seem to think the only thing any LBS can do is.. is sooth, comfort, reassure their poor lost MLCer... and VALIDATE their feelings, NO MATTER HOW RIDICULOUS they are. LBS'S have feelings too... or have your forgotten. We are probably just as damaged as the MLCer at this point... so tell me... who SOOTHS, COMFORTS, REASSURES and VALIDATES the LBS... we sure know it won't be the MLC'er.
Paving the way that way, must be one HELL of a one way agreement. If they do return, how do you live out the rest of your life... never speak your mind freely, afraid to have an argument, how long do you live like that? Might work in a perfect world where there is no need EVER for dissatisfaction or dissention... but in our world, I don't see how one can possibly maintain such behaviour.
We live in the real world. We are real people. With real feeling of our owns. The changes we make in ourselves have to maintainable and quite frankly I fail to see how ANYBODY can live the rest of their life tippy toeing around their partner, only VALIDATING their feelings and ignoring your own completely.
hugs Stayed..
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Dontgiveup:
It's not pushing when you have made it completely clear to your spouse that you have no desire to divorce. You have said it over and over. Often these spouses use that knowledge as a big, fat stick to keep us in line... "if you step on my toes, I'll divorce you".
Oh YES I agree with this.
We need to have a backbone and stand up for ourselves too.
I understand that there is a line here, but at some point the line is going to get crossed.
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"It's not pushing when you have made it completely clear to your spouse that you have no desire to divorce. You have said it over and over."...........you were not clear about this in your original post.
The LBS needs to stop engaging their MLCer. And the LBS needs to stop reacting.
"Often these spouses use that knowledge as a big, fat stick to keep us in line... "if you step on my toes, I'll divorce you"."
It's actually just as common for the MLCer to try to get the LBS to be the one who files. Certainly not always true, but my response would simply be that while I can't stop you, I will not assist.
"U seem to think the only thing any LBS can do is.. is sooth, comfort, reassure their poor lost MLCer"
Not true. Except for Clinging Boomerangs, the LBS rarely has the opportunity to do this anyway. The MLCer is running from the LBS.
"Paving the way that way, must be one HELL of a one way agreement."
Paving the Way seems to be greatly misunderstood on here in my opinion.
"quite frankly I fail to see how ANYBODY can live the rest of their life tippy toeing around their partner, only VALIDATING their feelings and ignoring your own completely."
I don't think anybody would spend the rest of their life doing this. MLC is a process.
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From RCR blog called Influence: Making a Difference
What is all this learning to communicate with a spewing MLCer about if it has no influence? MLCers are in reactive mode, they re-act to what happens and actions are always equal and opposite. In this sense, opposite does not mean nice yields mean and vice versa, rather it is about opposing. If you act in a harmful way to your MLCer, he will return the action by evening or bettering the score through harmful action toward you. Though both actions were negative, his action is opposite to yours because it opposes yours; it is against you and your action was against him. Take yourself out of reactive mode and respond to his actions instead. He will continue reacting, but his reactions will be opposite your responses which hopefully are not vindictive. Niceness matters.
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I was extremely nice when i said I was not going to carry on like we were :)
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I guess I want to jump in here....
I agree with DGU that "paving the way" seems to be misunderstood here -- I don't take it as "tippy toeing around the MLCer". I also don't see it as ignoring our own feelings. It's accepting the process.
And for those of us who don't have clinging boomerangs, I agree that we don't really get any chance to sooth, comfort, reassure our MLCer, as a matter of fact quite the opposite. For us trying to soothe, etc. would be pursuing, not paving the way.
Just as the "get on with it" attitude towards non-clinging MLCers doesn't have a beneficial effect either. That, like the reassurances, only 'works' with clingers. RCR's two latest blog posts go over this.
So while I completely agree with not engaging the MLCer and with having backbone, not all the rest can apply to all mlcers.
Stayed, I know you are adamant that that all MLCers are afraid of losing their spouses (or former spouses, in many cases), but I don't actually believe that is always completely true. I guess it depends on what you mean by "losing". Sure, I guess I could make life more difficult for my MLCer by just disappearing and he'd be left dealing with the children, etc., but if I were to do that I would just be hurting myself more than anyone. An "I'll show you" attitude doesn't get me anywhere.
Again, it might with a clinger, but not in other cases.
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You know dontgiveup, there is a very, very fine line between being patient and kind... and being a whipping boy/girl! You have been dealing with an MLCer for a few years now. You get weekly calls from her, and now of course never a cross word between the two of you. Why don't you think back a ways, to the days BEFORE she left your home. To the days before SHE DIVORCED YOU... I think your memory has perhaps become foggy with all this sweetness and goodness that you now live by.
If you recall, no matter HOW SWEET, KIND, LOVING you were to your MLCer at that point... she spewed it back at you. All of these people in here are dealing with MLCers that are in there faces pretty much every single day. These MLCers call these LBSers up and no matter how kind or careful the LBSer speaks to them... SOMEHOW IT BECOMES A DISPUTE!
Is this jogging your memory a bit dontgiveup... is any of this coming back to you? The point is, they are at the stage where whatever they do or do not say it is misunderstood, or twisted or distorted into something NASTY AND CRUEL. The only way they can get away from that, is to SHUT IT DOWN. You shut it down by telling them you don't want a divorce but don't use it as a weapon to keep me in line either.
Then you simply leave them to do whatever they are going to do. If it PUSHES them into filing ... so be it. If the LBSer finally says ENOUGH AND files... that's fine to. There are LIMITS dontgiveup. There really are and when you totally give up your dignity and your backbone, so you will not UPSET your poor, lost, MLCer... THEN THE WHOLE SITUATION IS OUT OF CONTROL and quite frankly they should DIVORCE.
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I don't understand this latest bit..... who is being too sweet and kind to our poor, lost MLCers?
And of course I'm not DGU, but it has recently been pointed out to me that in that last year before he left I was anything but sweetness and light to my MLCer -- there is a difference between genuinely expressing needs and feelings, and sniping and being snarky.
Nothing to do with my MLCer, but that sharpness is something that I don't like about myself, and am taking this time to learn to temper it. That doesn't mean not expressing myself, just thinking about HOW I do so. And that IMO is positive.
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Trust&Love:
There is nothing remotely normal or common with any MLCer, be they a clinger, a vanisher, a boomerang, whatever. There is nothing that works for everybody, nothing. What works for one will do nothing for another. It is a crazy, insane situation and that is why everybody, whether they have a clinger, a boomerang or a vanisher, just get the hell out of their way.
I don't mean physically T&L.. I mean mentally, emotionally. You have children, most in here do also, there is no way any of you can distance yourselves physically from your MLCer but you can distance yourself from the pain they are dishing out. You can stop them from subjecting you to it, you have rights as much as they do.
When your MLCer says something unkind to you, you should be able to say... do not talk to me like that, or I will arrange to have somebody else be here when you come to pick up the children. You do not have to be their whipping boy/girl... ever. There are many ways of subjecting you to their vile cruelty. One lady was telling me her h kept talking about how the condone section at the stores were empty now that the college students were back. That's cruel. This LBS knows they (he and she) don't need condoms.
All I am saying to everybody, it is up to us to PROTECT OURSELVES from their innate cruelty. It seems to come with the crisis, just mean and cruel. You do that by emotionally distancing yourself from them... completely. You leave them to it. Nothing upsets an MLCer more, then US LBS being immune to what they are dishing out. No point in being nasty any more is there, if we don't react... at all.
The only way we can not react is to totally detach from them. Simply see them as a necessary evil in our lives. Hope they can come out of it before we totally move on. That they become better people for the whole experience and that the changes they come out of it with, meet our needs, if we are STILL there to take them back and give them another chance.
That is all we can do.
Hugs Stayed
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MLCers are in Escape and Avoid. They may not worry about losing their spouse/ex-spouse for quite some time....and certainly not in the beginning, which can easily be the first two years or more.
And I think there is plenty of information on this website to show there are many commonalities with MLCers.
As always, I completely agree with detaching, not engaging the MLCer, and being responsive vs reactive.
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When your MLCer says something unkind to you, you should be able to say... do not talk to me like that, or I will arrange to have somebody else be here when you come to pick up the children.
Of course -- I think the point is that that can be done calmly, rather than nastily.
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Most everybody T&L...most everybody is afraid that they will push their MLCer away completely, for good. So they walk very cautiously, thinking carefully before they speak, showing kindness when they are receiving none etc. etc. Everybody tipsy toes around their MLCer... even you do... STILL!
There is no trick or scam or any sure way of getting your partner back. All you can do, is get on with your life. Honestly, truly get on with your life, pursuing your careers, enjoying your children, your friends and your family... FOR YOURSELF. Find a happy, healthy capable you, who is totally self sufficient. Learn to enjoy life, just for yourself... not for anybody elses pleasure, simply your own.
Quite frankly Dontgiveup, the quote from RCR could have been a quote out of any BIBLE. Everything she said there is basic rules for polite and proper behaviour for anybody in any situation. That is not stuff that should JUST be applied to your MLCer. The problem is, no matter what you say to a MLCer, it is always misunderstood or twisted or distorted to whatever cruel purpose they want to employ it. As I said the best thing... STAY AWAY FROM THEM. Hopefully someday they will come and apologize for being such a cruel, nasty piece of work to you.
hugs Stayed...
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T&L
Of course -- I think the point is that that can be done calmly, rather than nastily.
I think in an ideal world that would be lovely also T&L. Accept that, we are HUMAN BEINGS... who are hurting and denying our pain is just as difficult as them denying what they are going through. I think our expectations of how we SHOULD behave is totally unfair and quite honestly, darn near impossible for most of us, unless they have been dealing with this for years and years. Without doubt, with practice and time in, you can certainly control your outbursts etc. much better.
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My H recent visits have been great, no confrontation, no overt monster , why because everything was on his terms....I think it was good while it lasted, I think it paved the way, we grew close, we were intimate again, I loved him coming here, so I know many may say why did i rock the boat and tell him i was letting his go...
i know many on here would have loved what we had, he cooked, he did chores, he slept here...but it wasn't sincere and i could feel it....is this a knowing, not sure. Many will know I am not religious but I am quite spiritual, i could tell he wasn't committed, to his defence he hasn't once in ages said I want to work on us....he has always said...i like living alone, no pressure. But the thing was he wasn't living alone was he...he was living here on his terms, doing what he wanted on his terms, throwing me crumbs on his terms....and this goes against everything I have worked to achieve in my life.
So I could have maybe gone on for another 2 years with him visiting and pretending to everyone he still lived here :o :o :o but that goes against me, who I am. I feel i am now strong enough to deal with this. He has hoovered me back in the past with...I will cut the grass...no its OK we can do it...I will clean the pond...no its OK we can manage...he needs to see what it would be like if I met someone else and he moved in...he couldn't pop in for a cuppa then could he
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I feel the same way Hyper. I feel like I have been "released," for lack of better words. There does come a point where you get strong enough to stop the cycle of "oh he is here, what should I do now that won't rock the boat."
The house I live in is one that my H and I literally build ourselves - we designed it and then did everything except plumbing, electrical, and heating and air. It is built on land that my father "sold" to ME for $10. I know that my H has not really looked at the possibility that I may ACTUALLY move on to have a relationship with someone else - and that someone could be living in this house.
STC
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I feel the same way Hyper. I feel like I have been "released," for lack of better words. There does come a point where you get strong enough to stop the cycle of "oh he is here, what should I do now that won't rock the boat."
It's a feeling, a knowing that can't be explained to another! You simply know in your heart, you will be just fine, with or without your spouse. You are now able to watch from a distance and accept whatever the outcome is. It is a strange feeling, until you are there, it is not possible to describe.
It is not a "I'm done, I want a divorce"... or even a "I don't care anymore"... it is simply acceptance that "what will be.... will be"! You watch it all unfold as an impartial observer, as though it has NOTHING to do with your life. I guess because it really doesn't anymore.
Hugs Stayed
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And that ... as Stayed describes so well, ... is true detachment, what we should all be aiming for.
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I think maybe i know have it...I found a letter today here on my PC at work, a long sad letter I wrote to my H over a year ago...I read it all...i didnt shed a tear...detached , just like he was when he read it. Reassured me I was doing the right thing, day 3 NC...and counting, I just need to keep myself busy over the weekend. :)
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NC becomes a place of peace - for a while...
Enjoy it.
Find something great to do over the weekend.
You're doing great.
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Hyper, I applaud your strength. It is a real achievement to get to where you are. I hope to be in your position some day. To be able to really let go because it's not sincere. I am quite detached, but not to the degree I feel I should be. You are doing what you feel is right for you. That's truly monumental.
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Learning it is truly liberating and I know now I will not have any kind of R with my H at all unless he decides he can commit and wants to take me on dates etc...I feel free :)
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Do the work and we will all get there! All in our own time.
hugs Stayed
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oh boy big mistake I made about 2 weeks ago: he wanted to go out made it clear he didn't want me to come (I said fine, I'm only checking) I got paranoid , found out that a woman he's been working with was there as well
my mistake was waiting up for him asking him why he didn;t want me there, and did he know she would be there. that was that. oh boy he told her I was distraught that they'd bumped into each other (I wasn't) so he got her to phone me , she said it was purely a working relationship I told her I didn't have a problem with her it was HIS behaviour that was my problem) she then decided that as we had issues it wasn;t appropriate for her and h to work together (creatively) so h has now moved to the sofa, my s 20 has moved to his grandmother's because of the tension between my h and I (amongst other things, just for a week)
BIG mistake. forgot to expect nothing and forgot about giving space. but I was trying not to be a doormat.
I think h will move out again. gut feeling .
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oh boy big mistake I made about 2 weeks ago: he wanted to go out made it clear he didn't want me to come (I said fine, I'm only checking) I got paranoid , found out that a woman he's been working with was there as well
my mistake was waiting up for him asking him why he didn;t want me there, and did he know she would be there. that was that. oh boy he told her I was distraught that they'd bumped into each other (I wasn't) so he got her to phone me , she said it was purely a working relationship I told her I didn't have a problem with her it was HIS behaviour that was my problem) she then decided that as we had issues it wasn;t appropriate for her and h to work together (creatively) so h has now moved to the sofa, my s 20 has moved to his grandmother's because of the tension between my h and I (amongst other things, just for a week)
BIG mistake. forgot to expect nothing and forgot about giving space. but I was trying not to be a doormat.
I think h will move out again. gut feeling .
We all made mistakes. Don't worry mb, that will not be the end of your marriage. One day, out of MLC your husband won't even remember that happened.
But you should aks him never again to send any woman he is seeing to phone you. That is a boudarie you need to establish. If he has something to tell you he must be the one to do so.
Hope you'll feel betetr tomorrow.
Hugs.