Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Love being on higher grounds on November 07, 2011, 05:44:21 AM
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Mission Statement
To provide information, advice and support on how to Stand for marriage to men and women experiencing midlife crisis and infidelity in their marriages.
To prevent divorces.
To reduce the overall rate of divorce.
To encourage an alternative to divorce.
To encourage personal growth and loving of one’s Self.
I get the impression anymore when I come on the board that some are forgetting why we are here. every situation is different,it saddens me to hear so much bashing of our spouses, things in my opinion seem to be becoming very personal and very opinionated, even to the extent of board member being personally attacked...
just my thoughts...
hugs,
L
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I did see some anger a few weeks ago. It made me take a deep breath and step back for a while as I was concerned. But after a couple of weeks I came back.
Maybe I am looking at different threads now, but I see people being very supportive and understanding in the main.
Also I am seeing more MLC's coming home, so maybe I am selecting the later part of the process, whereas before I was looking at the beginnings which is where you would find the anger and bashing statements.
The forum covers the whole spectrum I am finding, which is good and helps me understand.
Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part as I am happy being single for some time.
But I agree it is also a place to vent rather than at your spouse. Then people can put the calm mask back on. :) and face the world again.
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I feel that we always need to remind ourselves that when we feel anger it is not really anger at our spouses but rather that we feel angry about MLC and what impact it has on the people we love.
I have never been angry at my H for what is happening in our sitch, instead I am hurt and wounded by MLC and with all hurts and wounds they need time to heal.
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I'm glad you reminded us of the mission. It's always good to be focused.
I must have missed the posts that bashed a board member. I would never bash another board member here. If I disliked what someone wrote (which has happened but rarely), I would first ignore, second choice would be to possibly just calmly retort but probably just to support my position but never bash. And if I felt I really had to, perhaps send a private message to try and work it out..but that hasn't been necessary thankfully.
I would hate to see alot of acrimony between any of us here because we come here to learn and comiserate. It should be a safe haven.
I will admit that I have bashed my spouse here. It wasn't something I was originally comfortable doing because prior to his MLC, I not only never said a bad word about him, I woudn't even participate in fairly mild spouse or opposite sex bashing...like, you know, comiserating on men not putting down the toilet seat or whatever. I just respected and adored my H too much to do that.
I realize that spouse bashing is not necessarily constructive but with that said, since I don't want to do it with people who know him, and I shouldn't do it TO him, I have done it here. I'm not proud of it and it might be best to not do it at all but then again, my anger has to go somewhere if I am to stand and not melt down. This is the only safe place I can do that. Again, please understand I'm not proud of it but I am so angry sometimes and feel so hurt, I have to vent. That's why I do it..not because it's fun or because I feel this is a way to conduct myself properly but simply because my head might explode if I didn't let it out.
Just wanted to explain why spouse bashing can go on...not an excuse, just my own personal reason.
Dandy Lion, I wish I could say the same as you. I wish I were just angry at the MLC but I do hold my H partially responsible. Maybe it comes down to what each one of us decides is the true reason behind MLC. I do believe there is a chemical aspect and an emotional aspect that may be difficult to control but I don't think it is impossible to control. I had my own hormonal issues in the past during menopause but other than a snappy moment here and there, I didn't take it out on my spouse. I am of the belief that since MLC is rarely found in cultures that honor and respect their aging, this is in part a cultural and societal issue that in my opinion, reflects how superficial and frankly, horribly and detrementally spoiled so many in the West are. And I think that is something that I have to believe my H could have realized, could have controlled. So because I don't feel its ALL about chemical depression, I feel that my anger is justified.
Its up to all of us as individuals to decide since there isn't proof positive either way yet so I respect your thoughts on it....just sharing my own.
Hope I didn't offend anyone...just explaining myself.
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Dandy Lion, I wish I could say the same as you. I wish I were just angry at the MLC but I do hold my H partially responsible. Maybe it comes down to what each one of us decides is the true reason behind MLC.
BonBon, I think that we all have one thing in common, that is MLC but apart from that our Situations are all very different too and some of us have more to vent than others and have more problems to deal with. We are all individuals and we all deal with things differently and I think it is amazing that we all manage to support and respect each other on this forum, having said that, there are bound to be a few times when anger comes to the surface, this is a natural response to pain and hurt and I am sure we can all understand this. When someone on the forum is upset and angered perhaps we should be able to understand this and provide a safe haven where their anger can be released in a safe supportive environment.
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Dandy,
I am not sure if I am guilty or not of "bashing" my h, I certainly have been angry & hurt.... that being said I feel like this forum is a savior to so many of us & THAT is why we are here. to say what we cannot at this point to THEM, the MLCer.
Personally, for me, ...as OP says, we come here to vent, gather information. gain as much knowledge that we possibly can... DETACH... well most of us need the guidance because although we all know what we are told to do .. it is HARD to do & I think the moderators on here are FANTASTIC & if the information from one to another is different it is up to THE LBS .. to read & decipher what is best for them.
I for one love the various opinions .. Even the heated debates. Those that have been through it, still going through it and those just beginning. No matter where any of us are in this .. we are ALLLLLLL angry at some point we go through the stages of loss. I have had GREAT advice and some here I feel holding my hand and walking me through my really rough moments.
I understand what you are saying. We SHOULD be positive. Encouraging .. all of those things .. I personally think that is exactly what the heated debates are... "different strokes for different folks."
(((HUGS))) sg
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Can I just say.....I felt very 'alone' before I found this forum.
I don't feel that anymore. Thank you all.
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Can I just say.....I felt very 'alone' before I found this forum.
I don't feel that anymore. Thank you all.
Freddy,
I completely agree!!!! :D
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Love Being on Higher Grounds, I use the term jack-ass as a term of endearment. :o :o
I ditto what the others said. I love my H so much. I really don't know what would have happened to me if I didn't find this site. Some days I hurry home to see what's going on here!!! :o ::) You have created a monster. :o No!! Not that kind of monster. ::)
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Thanks Dandy,
I'm glad you seemed to understand what I meant. :)
I've written many times that I thought I had more empathy than I do. I know that I have loads of compassion. As an example, I haven't eaten meat/poultry/pork in over three years because of my compassion for animals. This is totally off the point of this forum but I'm just trying to show an example of my having compassion. I have other examples of course that I won't bore you with. Certainly all of us here have some level of compassion or we woudn't "stand" probably.
With that said, I would have thought that had my H gone through something psychological, I would have had tons of compassion. I was wrong. Perhaps I should say that had his problems not been taken out on me, I still think I would have had far more compassion and empathy. But of course the problems were taken out on me and so, I found that my compassion was/is limited severely. This is something that I'm not proud of and not necessarily happy about but it is what I discovered. And so, there is the anger.
I think some LBS' have more/better/less limited compassion perhaps and those folks might have less anger, more patience. I'm not sure.
I've digressed from the original topic but just thought I would dabble into the anger topic a bit.
Freddy, I also agree with you!
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I think if you are constantly bashing the MLCer that it's not good but come on....I've been lied to, cheated on, basically been chewed up and spit out by my H. I think it would be abnormal not to have some sarcastic remarks now and then. This is the place to vent. I would not do it to my family, our friends or to him. I think most of us have compassion for the MLCer. If we didn't we wouldn't be here. We would just kick them to the curb and move on.
I hope people aren't bashing any other poster. I have seen disagreements but thought that is healthy and most seem to work themselves out. We are all so different yet brought together by a common tragedy. I hope we all continue to learn and grow stronger together. :)
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I think this is a healthy debate because we can all see why someone would vent AND we can all see that the MLC is a variation of the person they once were.
You know if we were strangers to them they would not do to us what they do.
It is because they know us so well that they hurt us and why in the long term they will remember back and understand how we felt (maybe a little bit).
I have never known such trauma as this was.
I have lost both parents, one in a not nice way when I was younger and that haunted me for 20 years, but this was worse. I think, (I know I haven't ever) but we are entitled to vent as is not really against our spouse but against the situation.
As Bon Bon said, if this was a physical ailment and there was something to see, we would have friends on our side, but because it is what it is, people think we are nuts.
I foolishly tried to explain to my wife's best friend and she just told me to get a grip and divorce her (because 20 years ago SHE divorced the love of her life) stupid woman. This is my wife's best friend. I don't even want to speak to her again. I think she is also one who is telling my wife she can't go back.
You do find out who your real friends are.
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I too thought this was a place to vent...isn't it better doing it here rather than the actual MLCer.............all of us have gone through the most traumatic time of our lives...rather than hold any resentments that may come up later on to my MLCer i would rather do it now on this board......yes i throw him truth darts......but in the beginning if i had said half of what i say on here and other forums it would have him running for the hills and never looking back.........i believe that this site gave me hope and the strength to stand if i hadn't found it i would have been long gone........the anger would have prevented my stand instead coming here allowed me to get it out and see it for what it is.............i am sorry if any of my posts have upset you or anyone but its the only way of unloading for me without becoming bitter against my h ...i have learnt so much from this site/people that it enables me to stand in a more productive and healthy way xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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I must agree that I have not found there to be a lot of "bashing" on this site, people are generally respectful and thoughtful and genuinely concerned about each others pain, stress and sadness. You know, I was reading BonBon's description of compassion and I was interested because I too have always considered myself reasonably compassionate and empathetic, but I have struggled enormously with trying to feel genuine compassion and empathy for my H during his crisis. This is the person I loved more than anyone else on the planet, who I chose to be the father of my children, who I vowed to be faithful to forever, who I considered my best friend and who I spent all of my marriage trying to support to the best of my ability, and I have cycled through lots of different feelings and emotions in the last year, from overwhelming confusion, sadness, anger, pity for him but, during this time, I have searched within myself for the soft feeling of compassion that I have so often felt for others over the years and I just could not find it for my H. And I am still trying to analyse why I have felt so unable to maintain compassion - what personal failing in me just can't feel ongoing empathy for him?
We all come to this site imperfect and damaged in one way or another. For some, MLC is yet another trauma in a life marked by various losses, for others it is the first (and hopefully last) significant personal loss in their lives. We arrive with baggage, with cultural differences, with different stresses and, even on this predominantly Christian site, different religious beliefs and starting points. I think that it is remarkable that there is so much support and so little misunderstanding and judgement when you consider that array of considerations!!! I have to say, not to put to fine a point on it, that this site has been integral for me in retaining my faith in some universal truths about the human condition and the basic desire to be good to one another in most people.
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Thanks S&D,
Other than the fact we don't have kids, I could have written exactly what you wrote about your feelings for your H pre-MLC and now as well.
I think it will be interesting to find out down the road if that empathy ever kicks in for you and me and some others who've said the same. Right now, I don't think it ever will for me. I've just never bought that the way they chose to behave during MLC was something they had absolutely no control over or that it was an excuse for all the hurt. In fact if I did think that, I might just have some of them committed...lol...kidding.
I have to agree that with all the diversity here, we all have such a strong bond of compassion for each other and understanding. It's pretty amazing.
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StandandDeliver
I totally agree with what you have said so eloquently. Sometimes I really struggle with this idea that somehow these MLCer's cannot be held responsible for their actions. In my case, I really feel that my XH abdicated responsibility for own his mental and emotional health and wreaked havoc on me and his children in the process. Yet I am expected to take responsibility for picking up the pieces of the mess he has created. Now I am feeling as if I am coming down with a cold. I know I have to get a good nights sleep and to dose myself with Vitamin C - I can't afford to be sick - I have 3 kids who depend on me and a full-time job which I need to keep to pay the mortgage. I would seriously like to "opt out" even for a few days. But I won't because I have responsibilities, even more so because my children cannot rely on their father. Who gave the MLCer's the right to opt out?
One of the (many!) things that my Xh has damaged with his behaviour is my somewhat naive view of life before BD. That has been shattered not just my his behaviour, but the appalling treatment I have received from his family and from some so called "friends", as well as my faith in the legal system. I know that I can never go back to that warm cocoon again.
But the compassion and empathy on this site has been amazing especially as you have said, S&D, given the wide disparity of views, cultures and faiths that we embrace. Truly, this site has restored my faith in human nature.
Thanks you everyone,
Jilly
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VENTING is not BASHING. You all are missing the point LBOHG is trying to remind us of....
I AGREE with her, there is a lot of snarky, controlling, opinionated "OPINION" cloaked in false "concern" and "caution" here. If you don't see it, consider yourself lucky... your day is coming. It is coming from a SELECT FEW that confuse "concern" with CONTROL and FIXING.
Please don't confuse "Agape Love" with doormat.... there is unjustifiable FEARMONGERING on this forum so that ANYONE conceding the MLCer might be off their rocker is STILL VEIWED as a doormat! There is definitely PRESSURE here to PUNISH the MLCer or be considered a doormat.
I have been the target of such "concern" and I don't give a flying F*** at this point, but I sure don't appreciate it... That's why I don't post any more... sorry.
By the way... there is still a LOT of good to be gained from the forum IF, you are not a "lightening rod" for certain members.... and IF, you censor YOURSELF and skip certain threads. Just my opinion, take it or leave it...
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Hi Lettinggo,
I agree that Venting is not bashing, but I don't think we are completely missing the point.
There is some controlling and opinionated posts too, which I for one chose to simply step over.
But I don't think we should accept fearmongering or controlling. I simply filter those out.
Each stander has to make their own decisions and own their direction. The forum is to me something to absorb and filter to select my direction. I have never been good at doing what I am told to do.
There are some great examples of what works and what doesn't here. The rest of it I am not really interested in and I skip.
I still view this MLC as a bit of an illness, a diversion and feel sad that it happened, it was like being kicked out of a warm bed as a child.
Maybe I had some contributing elements which in improving myself I can correct. My view is that we should NOT be against our spouses, but try and assist them in their new path to a comfortable life as long as it does not involve trampling on me or my daughters. They are my priority now. If my spouse wants to join later and fit in, then maybe that will be possible. Who knows? But I wont shut the door yet.
The forum gives me lots of resources to comfort me and know how to deal with confrontation and also to recognise statements from 'friends' which are controlling and simply ignore them. So I suppose I have seen these controlling statements and subconsciously I write off that contributor (sorry).
Also I have been through this process of retracting and having a think and not posting. But I came back with the view that my opinion is probably no better than another, but it is my experience and that is what we are all here for is to contribute, share and learn, good and bad and filter what we want.
I agree with everything LettingGo is saying, each individual here needs to be allowed to be their own person and make their own decisions.
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So for me, as for all of us I believe, this forum is a life saver. For people new to the forum it should be a place of welcome, practical support and understanding as they struggle through the terrible days/months after BD.
Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion, the post by Letting Go, is something that I hope no Newbie has to see in his/her first days on here. If I had seen such an opinion on joining this forum I would not have continued to use it. In fact I joined another forum and left because the members seemed to be at undermining each other under the guise of individual opinions or greater knowledge.
I am actually saddened by the post from LG even though I accept that it is her right to voice her opinion in such a way on this forum.
Well said CrazyStuff. I too hope NEWBIES who read LG's comments are not put off from this wonderful forum.
You see, I don't believe we have to AGREE to SUPPORT! Simply saying what one wants to hear if you truly do not agree, is insincere and disingenuous, not to mention not very helpful. I like to think we are all adults here and are able to pick and choose what is most helpful for our personal use.
Quote from BonBon
Dandy Lion, I wish I could say the same as you. I wish I were just angry at the MLC but I do hold my H partially responsible. Maybe it comes down to what each one of us decides is the true reason behind MLC. I do believe there is a chemical aspect and an emotional aspect that may be difficult to control but I don't think it is impossible to control. I had my own hormonal issues in the past during menopause but other than a snappy moment here and there, I didn't take it out on my spouse. I am of the belief that since MLC is rarely found in cultures that honor and respect their aging, this is in part a cultural and societal issue that in my opinion, reflects how superficial and frankly, horribly and detrimentally spoiled so many in the West are. And I think that is something that I have to believe my H could have realized, could have controlled. So because I don't feel its ALL about chemical depression, I feel that my anger is justified.
BonBon, I too must be lacking in empathy and compassion, because I also STRUGGLE mightily with whether they is as little control over an MLCer's behaviour, as is often depicted here. Like you, I thought I was a fairly compassionate, empathetic person, but with this situation I have been found sadly lacking. Maybe it is because of all the other PEOPLE that were dragged into this. How it affected our children, our lives in general.
I also tend to believe this a PROSPEROUS societies AFFLICTION. Just like anorexia, how many people in the Africa, make themselves throw up, so they can remain THIN. Right NONE! MLC, seems similar to me. Oh look at all the pretty people, look how rich they are, look at all the fun they are having... I WANT THAT? :o Maybe as you say, it is a lack of respect of AGE. So many other cultures bow to their elders, where as in our culture we ignore them. I don't know.
I think we EVERYBODY benefits from DISCUSSIONS like this. I honestly do not feel I have seen much MLC bashing whatsoever. Hurt people venting about words/actions/inaction's that they have been subjected to due to MLC... sure. But to me, that is NOT BASHING!
hugs Stayed
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on anger and venting.... this is just one study, more may be found by googling "venting anger". Something to think about. Do we use "just venting" as a justification to bash? (I know I did/do) Does it help us?
Here is the abstract:
Does Venting Anger Feed or Extinguish the Flame?
Catharsis, Rumination, Distraction,
Anger, and Aggressive Responding
Brad J. Bushman
Iowa State University
Does distraction or rumination work better to diffuse anger?
Catharsis theory predicts that rumination works best, but empirical evidence is lacking. In this study, angered participants hit a
punching bag and thought about the person who had angered
them (rumination group) or thought about becoming physically
fit (distraction group). After hitting the punching bag, they
reported how angry they felt. Next, they were given the chance to
administer loud blasts of noise to the person who had angered
them. There also was a no punching bag control group. People in
the rumination group felt angrier than did people in the distraction or control groups. People in the rumination group were also
most aggressive, followed respectively by people in the distraction
and control groups. Rumination increased rather than
decreased anger and aggression. Doing nothing at all was more
effective than venting anger. These results directly contradict
catharsis theory.
And the link:
https://illinois.edu/lb/files/2009/03/26/9293.pdf
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Quote by LifeGoesOn
Doing nothing at all was more effective than venting anger.
Turn the other cheek? Where did I hear that one?
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I think that study is interesting LGO, because there are definitely times where I know that my anger feeds my anger and then I need to do something (for me yoga or calling a friend or reading a good book) that distracts and relaxes me and puts things into perspective. But there are other times when something has happened that angered me and I have come here and "vented", had people respond, tell me they understand or land me with a 2x4, and it has helped extinguish the anger so that it does not fester and feed itself. So I guess it depends on how you define "venting". I do go off on one from time to time and then the good people here, point it out, and I retreat, think about my reaction and it truly helps me move on from the anger.
So, I do see this forum as a place to "vent" - where people will put me in my place, but do it kindly if you see what I mean. ANd it is true that it would be better if I NEVER felt the need to vent, but I am human, I endeavour to control my feelings as much as possible, but sometimes they are my feelings, they are negative, they are not pretty. I am sure that there are people who do not feel anger as often as I do, and there are people who feel it a lot more frequently. I do not want to take out my anger on my children, on my friends, on my family or even on my MLCer. I don't want to bash anyone (badmouth them, put them down) but sometimes I do need to express genuine anger at bad behaviour that has been directed at me or that has affected me or my children. I don't know the answers here - it is too bad that some people feel that they have been confronted with put downs or criticism. As someone who has made endless errors in dealing with MLC, and who diverged from some of the purposes proposed by the site at times, I am aware that there are those who fundamentally disagree with some of the decisions that I have made. I am comfortable with that and I continue to post here because I think people may be interested in how this turns out for me even though I may choose a different path. I would NEVER tell some one that they should do things the way I am doing them - in fact, if you want to save your marriage at all costs then you probably want to give some of my decisions a wide berth ;D. Still, it is not over til it's over (the MLC, that is) and who knows, maybe my MLCer and I can still reconcile one day even though I am moving away from that direction, so maybe it is still worth hearing my story even if you disagree with my choices.
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Well said S&D!
I always want to hear so count me in!
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I agree too.
How do we learn if we don't listen. Count me in too. :)
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Me too S&D, I love hearing what you have to say. I have always found your thread to be fascinating and informative.
hugs Stayed
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The study is interesting. I know anger is bad, but unavoidable. Personally, I tried doing all kinds of active things to try and dispel some of my anger but it didn't work for me. Oh well. Guess I'll just keep venting and hope for the best.
Stayed, I'm so glad you agree regarding the cultural issues. And I loved the way you put it..made me laugh actually, envisioning all these whiny babies...lol.
Don't get me wrong. I feel blessed to live in a culture/place of such abundance. And I think with that abundance comes progress and charity and all kinds of good things. But it also has a down side. My parents generation lived through a Depression and World War and they were too busy to contemplate their navels all day (as my departed Dad would have said).
Stayed, it's funny that you used the starvation/anorexia example. Even my husband has said on a few occassions that he is aware that if he lived in a place where simply surviving was his only task, he wouldn't have time for all these problems. Interesting that he knows this and yet still went through it. I'm not sure what that means exactly. I don't want anyone to think I don't realize there is some sort of mental/physical thing going on here...I do...I just don't think its ALL of it. As Stayed once said, there is a reason but its not an excuse and that is the difference in my book.
LettingGo, sorry you have had some negative experiences. That is always the danger on a forum. For me, it's been a positive. But I know we can all take advice and read and learn but in the end we have to use our own filters. I think the most beneficial thing here is to be understood and to know you aren't alone.
Bon
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I foolishly tried to explain to my wife's best friend and she just told me to get a grip and divorce her (because 20 years ago SHE divorced the love of her life) stupid woman. This is my wife's best friend. I don't even want to speak to her again. I think she is also one who is telling my wife she can't go back.
You do find out who your real friends are.
True, very true. I use this place as a way to say to my MLCer those things that would be catastrophic for our R, were I to say them directly to him. Any friend I go to will listen for awhile then eventually tell me I can't put up with it. They mean well but it doesn't help a person who's trying to choose their marriage over their hurt pride. It's a choice I have to make daily (at times, moment by moment). I either vent my anger here, or I must carry it.
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This forum was a lifesaver for me, as much as it is for any newbie.... I believe it is for the "older" members to guide new ones to the resources here more than to offer their opinion... sometimes a newbie will ask for direct information or opinion from another member, like I did with Stayed.... I must have driven her crazy trying to fill in the blanks and details of her story, specifically the flight to rejoin her husband as he was on his "closure weekend". I couldn't figure it out, LOL!!
I simply stated my PERSONAL dismay with what I PERSONALLY feel has been a negative, compared with the way the forum FELT in the beginning. There is a LOT of controlling "advice" going on in certain threads. I suggested the mentoring program as a way to gently direct the vibe of the forum back to what it was.
I would never reveal which members, but I've had a few PM's from some who tell me they feel PRESSURED by other members to do things a certain way, even though it goes against their gut instinct. These aren't members that I even know, by the way... so... it's not just me that has seen and felt it.
I don't believe I've ever discouraged anyone from posting here...
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Any friend I go to will listen for awhile then eventually tell me I can't put up with it. They mean well but it doesn't help a person who's trying to choose their marriage over their hurt pride. It's a choice I have to make daily (at times, moment by moment).
I agree Wed2Him. I have had the same experiences in real life. Or the old "Oh, I don't know HOW you do it. I could NEVER do what you're doing!" Um...I'm not asking you to, and way to go on that passive aggressive judgement on my choices.
That being said, I also come to this forum for support in my stand. I do not expect to have my stand questioned here as well, and I find it a bit offensive when people do. Well meaning intentions or not, I thought the point of this board was to support LBS standers? But overall, people here have been wonderful. I am amazed at how much I have grown to care for so many of you in so short of a time.
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"Oh, I don't know HOW you do it. I could NEVER do what you're doing!" Um...I'm not asking you to, and way to go on that passive aggressive judgement on my choices.
SO TRUE!! This is one of my favorites..... my Mom seems truly puzzled..... she keeps asking me if I feel like I'm a nurturing person.... I get the hint, Mom.... you think I'm standing for my BAD BOY because I just feel sooooo sorry for him and can't abandon him no matter WHAT he does to me.... they don't get it AT all.
And as far as talking to your friends about it.... well.... don't even bother. They will be so sick of it.... even my MIL does NOT want to hear it!! She will ask how my husband is, but if I give her the tiniest detail about a positive, she cuts me off and changes the subject.... I realize it's TIRING and BORING to hear about MLC all day, especially when they just see another man leaving his wife for someone else.... happens all the time! BUT, it's almost as if they are uncomfortable in that way seeing a person on crutches or a wheelchair can make you feel uncomfortable....
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Hi WP and LG,
People do not seem to understand that standing is an action of strength not weakness. We might crumble but if we do that is because we are fighting against the pain inside, not ignoring it. I could say to myself Well I can't do any better than my H who treats me poorly now so let me try to think only of good things and pretend this isn't happening. But I won't do that because then my marriage would have not just one but two spouses who are practicing avoidance, and what chance would we have if that became my strategy? My husband is running from pain. I am willing to face pain right now because he has not found the strength to. I am doing it because it is what I would want him to do for me, were the roles reversed. What he has done isn't pretty but there isn't anything not covered by For better or worse. If there is then I totally missed that part of taking my vows.
So I keep coming back here several times a week to get a re-charge and then I go back into battle and think of what I learned.
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People do not seem to understand that standing is an action of strength not weakness. We might crumble but if we do that is because we are fighting against the pain inside, not ignoring it. I could say to myself Well I can't do any better than my H who treats me poorly now so let me try to think only of good things and pretend this isn't happening. But I won't do that because then my marriage would have not just one but two spouses who are practicing avoidance, and what chance would we have if that became my strategy? My husband is running from pain. I am willing to face pain right now because he has not found the strength to. I am doing it because it is what I would want him to do for me, were the roles reversed. What he has done isn't pretty but there isn't anything not covered by For better or worse. If there is then I totally missed that part of taking my vows.
Wed2Him4Ever,
Honey, you won't crumble under the strain as God is the source of the strength that comes from within yourself. Without pain there is no hope of gaining anything. I stood for my husband, but honestly, when I was going through my transition, I did not expect him to stand for me, I really didn't think he would; but I was wrong about that; in his own way, he actually did stand and wait for me to come through; and I have never forgotten that.
In spite of what he put me through AFTER I exited my own transition; that little detail I wrote above, told me something about him that he could never have voiced to me directly; he loved me enough to see and endure the shoe on the other foot. I didn't do some of what he did to me; but I did turn on him; just as he had turned on me beforehand. I didn't break my vows; but he endured me shouting and screaming at him when he would pressure me; he would back down at that point. He would try again later on to the tune of the same song; me raising red sand and cain at him for bothering me.
There was strength in both me and my husband that helped us deal with each other during the darkest times in our lives; and it really does take MORE strength to stand than it does to run away and start over somewhere else....me, well, I'm too old to train another; so I opted to try and keep what I had; I succeeded, but it was very hard on me; and at times, on him.
What you've written is a very excellent piece of wisdom echoing several things I've said in the past. Even though my husband set HIS marriage aside when he turned on me; that didn't affect MY VOWS that were taken so long ago.
You see the marriage/lives split into HIS, HERS, and THEIRS...each one with the problems, issues and aspects that were/are apparent; and these must be processed as part of each person's journey; whether it be the MLC'er, and/or the LBS...this is a seriously necessary part of the journey; and one where a breakdown or a "stop" can occur. Don't let the reality of yourself, your spouse, your marriage, and your past roles as a couple stop you from continuing to walk your journey to wholeness and healing.
This is another advanced aspect of the LBS Journey; one that I faced and dealt with the resulting positive and negative emotions; processing these completely within myself.
To finish my journey ALL issues/aspects had to be faced, the SAME as my husband had to do within himself; in order to come through.
This takes WORK and lots of it to process through and understand where you stood, they stood, and where you two stood as a couple.
You will be angry; filled with rage at times; this is part of it; it was NOT all smiles and laughter during your marriage; and this is the time you'll uncover painful and harsh truths on both sides of the equation; I don't care who you are.
The love you once held for the MLC spouse WILL be lost; it will return in a different, more mature way; but this is part of learning to love the REALITY, rather than the FANTASY you had built them into over the years of your marriage; putting them upon a pedestal that is only meant for GOD; not man or woman.
Like it or not, your MLC spouse is NOT the person you thought they were; and this is where most people BALK and don't wish to go any farther.
They are AFRAID of the truth as it begins to tug at the edges of their minds; and once the light of cold hard reality begins to dawn within regarding the person they once married; this fear shuts the door for the majority of people.
They refuse to go any farther; choosing then, to simply place ALL the blame for the failed marriage upon the MLC spouse. While it is true the actual breakdown rests upon the MLC spouse; each person truly does have their part leading up to this breakdown; and this is the reality that must be examined...but once you've examined you, and begun to change within; then it's time to examine the other party; your changes will bring to light what is wrong; and what you'll need to do to bring forth further change within.
For some people, it's too much to bear. It's easier to live in denial in that aspect than to start the changes, THEN, take a long, hard look at the person you married; and see them in all of their faults and flaws, further seeing what it was within you that was drawn to that person to begin with.
This does NOT mean you married the "wrong" person; nor does it mean that you made a mistake; true intimacy that comes after the crisis is past means you KNOW the one you married more completely should your marriage make it into the rebuilding phase.
If the marriage DOESN'T make it that far; you will have gained the tools necessary to discern the "red flags" that wrong behavior will raise; so you won't make the mistake of marrying someone that could give you grief down the road. The tools gained from this learning were/are meant to mature you; make you more knowledgeable in the way of human behavior; not only to deal with your spouse, but other people, too.
Every person has baggage, emotional problems; unless they have learned what the MLC/MLT demands from them, and this is wholeness, emotional balance, and a true understanding of what love really means....they do learn the Biblical meaning; and apply this to their relationship/marriage in the way it was meant to be.
I have learned that it takes one person to teach another; and this teaching/learning takes time; sometimes a lifetime to learn/teach all that needs to be learned/taught. The best vehicle for learning is MARRIAGE. Unless your life is threatened physically, or you're being beaten/physically misused....the emotional battering that is often endured during the MLC CAN be learned from; as this is where BOUNDARIES and LIMITS spring forth; and changes of behavior come about within one or both people.
Setting boundaries and limits are NOT hurtful to anyone; it may LOOK painful; but emotional pain has to come about in order to gain self respect. Even if you need to take steps to prevent wasteful spending, for example, in order to keep from going bankrupt; that is a limit/boundary/protection in itself; and is NOT punishment for the MLC'er....this is a form of consequences for them.
Surely, they don't think they can just keep going and going; until there's no money left for them to spend. Lose the fear, set the boundary; regardless of what you see happen, and understand that if the MLC spouse walks away because of it; you really have lost NOTHING; because the alternative would mean you would lose everything you have and need to live on.
Believe me when I tell you I have done this; I confronted and refused to allow him to keep spending; while I worked to make sure our household stayed afloat...sure, he got mad; but in time, he straightened up...it was my way or the highway at that point.
I sound hard and harsh, but I have LIVED these ASPECTS; and learned the wisdom and importance of seeing what my husband really was; only THEN was my love true when it returned; because I learned to truly love him, FLAWS, WARTS, and all.....honoring my vows as I was bound to do so long ago.
True, he did NOT break MY VOWS; he broke HIS; and he really did need to consider himself lucky, or even blessed that I chose to continue with him even after all he'd done, and all I seen once my eyes were opened to what he truly was.
The taking of vows is as individual as the individual that took them...and though it has been said to me before that I had NO obligation to my MLC spouse when he destroyed our lives, HIS marriage, and HIS vows through his awful, hateful actions toward me; I chose to take this harder road, and chose to stand for my marriage.
I have walked through the fires of Hell, endured emotional abuse equal to what I had faced as a child, was forced onto a path that I would NOT have chosen to take; learned to deal with his hatefulness, his controlling and manipulative nature, learned to protect myself in various ways from his childish wants and wishes, came down hard on him when the time was right to enforce boundaries I had NEVER KNOWN to set before on him, and most importantly of all, I learned what I was made of....God already knew, but I was left to discover the strength within me that I never knew I had.
But, you know we learn the most from the paths we are actually forced onto; if we had the choices in our hands, don't you know we would choose easier ways to take through this life; we wouldn't choose to suffer pain, anguish, loss; no one wishes for these things to happen; nor are they wanted.
Even I would not have chosen the various trials I went through; and I have seen some seriously deep physical pain(Childhood) and deep emotional pain within my lifetime; long before the crisis came about.
It is much easier to walk away, divorce your spouse, running from the pain that you know is surely to come if you choose the harder path...and you know, I was given a choice, so long ago; that choice repeated itself several times; each time I chose what I knew would be the harder path.
It really does take more strength to stand than to run.
I suspect the only reason people are asked whether they will stand or walk is simply because the advice varies between these two choices.
Standing is a personal choice, but it involves different advice than having chosen to move on, rather than forward.
Moving on STILL involves the journey to wholeness and healing; but everything is faced and processed through within a given period of time; whereas Standing/Moving Forward involves processing some things, and allowing others to stay "on hold" until it is seen whether the marriage will move toward renewing/rebuilding.
It becomes all about the aspects; not just the straightforward issues within the marriage that once existed; not to mention the issues within the couple, and the individual issues within each person that must be examined by each individual.
There are issues, then there are the aspects of each issues that are seen....and the aspectual pieces can be many or few, depending upon the issue at hand, just as there are issues and aspects within the crisis itself.
The sense of entitlement on either side; whether MLC'er or LBS will not get anyone anywhere; but a bad attitude; and a very lonely life. I found through this trial that I was NOT entitled to anything, that whatever I attained I needed to be grateful for, as even God will NOT feed a sense of entitlement; that is an arrogant aspect within itself...and pride and this sense of entitlement comes before a hard fall, and these are the worst enemies of both MLC'er and LBS.
If you can't lay down your pride, and/or sense of entitlement and humble yourself, recognizing that you are just as flawed as the next person; you'll find yourself cycling like a merry go around until you figure it out.
Pride and arrogance is also two of the biggest reasons MLC'ers usually choose NOT to return; it's hard for them to lay aside their pride, preferring instead to choose prideful, arrogant, entitlement; "it's my turn now"; attitudes to simply admitting they made a terrible mistake, and taking the consequences as it comes for their actions.
Even though some will come slinking back, crawling on their bellies, so to speak, don't think for one second they won't still suffer for their actions; consequences, like God is not a respecter of persons; it comes for all; good or bad, it always returns better or worse, depending on the actions sent out.
Each of you know your situations better than anyone; and regardless of the crisis that's going on; you KNOW your MLC spouse; but don't hide your perception of what's going on with them behind an "illness"; and tell yourselves they are "sick"...I assure you, they are NOT sick; they are out of control, in rebellion against you; and though they may act crazy at times; they KNOW what they are doing when they are doing it.
One last thing; don't sit and wait and do nothing for yourselves, not doing the work; that won't help you regain what you once had in your marriage; what you "had" is NOW GONE, DEAD, burned to the ground.
IF your MLC spouse comes all the way through; they will NOT be the same person you knew before the crisis; CHANGE has already occurred within them, even BEFORE the bomb was dropped on you, and this change will continue burning its way through until nothing is left to burn out; UNLESS they get stuck within the tunnel, and this is always possible.
They don't call it "The Change" just to give the MLC/MLT a better sounding name.
Don't let time get down the road while you simply sit and wait; let your waiting be proactive; and do what you're advised to do, get to it, time waits for no man or woman.
Believe me, I have been there...and I have seen people who got stuck in this on both sides; and years went down the road before they completely understood what they were going to need to do....for some LBS' it took losing the MLC spouse completely to remarriage before their eyes were opened. For some MLC'ers; they saw the loss of their spouse; and this caused them to go through the SAME anguish they put their spouse through.
For other LBS', comprehension hit them one day out of the blue down the road....for others, they finally decided to get out of the mudhole of self pity; and each one kicked themselves for wasting so much time in their misery...but there's no time like the present time to get on the road to wholeness and healing.
Either way this comes out, resolves or whatever path this crisis takes, life was meant to be lived; NOT put on hold for someone who may or may not emerge from the tunnel; so, hop to it; and for those who know the Lord, please understand that He is there with you and for you, regardless of how this trial may or may not resolve.
I realize this thread is a few days old; but that last post caught my eye; and here's my two cents worth, anyway. :)
Love,
HB