Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Wed2Him?Whatever. on November 08, 2011, 01:16:20 PM
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I have touched on this briefly in other threads, but I'm going to REALLY put it out there now. I'm standing for a full restoration of my marriage. I know that everyone's got different circumstances that can seem impossible to overcome whether it's an OP or drug use or whatever. But I get extremely discouraged about my own situation some days because it's only me there to be my H's "reward" as he eventually exits the tunnel. Maybe once he completes his journey he is going to realize I'm not enough.
I've known my H for 17 years (dated 6 years, married 11 years). We married when we were both 24 years old and now we're both 36 years old. All of this time of being best friends and discussing our dreams and our hopes for the future together, kids weren't part of what either of us desired. We had a few clear-cut talks during our dating years about having kids and came to the conclusion (happily I thought) it isn't for us. We even said if we changed our minds later we could always adopt, not a big deal. Then in all our 11 years of marriage my H never mentioned any sort of change of heart until months after BD when he'd turned Monster, was listing my "flaws" and one of them is I NEVER GAVE HIM A SON. :o Wha?!? I know we've said we cannot believe what they say and only 50% of what they do, but man there's no way for me to tell you how much that's bothering me!
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Wed2Him4Ever
Those statements from MLCers are very hurtful, though not unusual. I've had this conversation with a few other LBS who do not have children, and have compared that to statements from some who do have children.
Since MLC has elements of a "do-over" to the MLCer, it's typical of them to verbalize whichever situation they are not in as what they "wish" were true. In other words, many MLCers who did not have children are angry about not having them.....while at the same time, many MLCers who do have children have said some hurtful things about "wishing" they had not had children, or that they didn't want the responsibility. And we know some MLCers abandon the children.
So, as is typical for MLC, whatever their situation is with children, they can often express that they wish it were the opposite.
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Wed2Him, my H and I do not have children. We are not married. I still stand. I don't think it necessarily makes a difference one way or another how things turn out in the long run, but that's just me.
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Hi Wed,
Maybe I can offer some thoughts on this as we don't have kids either (a wonderfully spoiled dog is the only other anchor so to speak). At any rate, our circumstances are different because we intended to have them but did not, due to me and some physical issues. It could have been explored more but I dropped the ball. We married later and so the clock ticked quickly. I'm making a long and involved and complicated story very short here. Suffice to say, we don't have them and though I knew it was a regret, I thought that our marriage was so happy, it was ok. That's what I was consistently told at least.
So, much to my surprise, this came up too in a major way and when I asked why it was such a big issue now when it was not before, I was told that it was because he had to leave a "legacy". Now maybe I'm disecting gender lines more than I should...and forgive me please if anyone reads this and finds the legacy important but....I don't. To me, that is not the reason to have children. But, with that said, I realized through other conversations that there was alot to this for H. For one thing, his feelings are that he hasn't made any kind of mark on the world. Having a child apparently would have resolved that (though I don't think so or MLC would be limited to childless couples). He also found it embarrasing, shameful even...he worried that people would perceive us as selfish. Well, some people do think that....but I've yet to have someone tell me why in any way that makes sense since we involve ourselves with charities and issues beyond ourselves...so when I've heard I'm selfish for not having them, I dismiss it entirely. But apparently my H does not.
Eventually, when I kept pushing this issue, I told him we can explore avenues be they adoption, foster children, and so forth. He wanted no part of that and said the baby we should have had MUST come from his loins. Interesting since he himself was adopted as an infant. So I pushed more. Finally, I said that if he wanted/needed to have children, I understood. I said that as a man, he was able to produce long after me and I did not want to carry the burden of robbing him of that the rest of my life so, if that was the case, please leave me and find someone to have children with and know that you are doing so with my blessing. And I meant every word. I actually feared he would but hoped he would at the same time. The only thing I asked was that he not string me along for years and then decide to do this. He promised not to. But of course he never gave me an answer out right. Finally, I pushed again on that and he said it was not what he wanted to do. I drove it again hard. He said no, really, it was only one thing in a huge sea of things that he regretted.
Later, I found that the ego aspect of this was stronger than even the simple desire to love and nurture children. And that is when I really gave up talking about it and decided it was just another aspect of MLC. We all have regrets...I do as well and on this issue in fact but I can't dwell on everything I didn't do and I certainly did not want kids to assuage my ego. I don't believe that is why he wanted them either but it certainly was one aspect that came to bear during MLC.
So, I write all this because I think that you might be seeing as much MLC as anything and perhaps just that...
I hope this somehow helped...at least to know you aren't the only one who has seen this.
Hugs.
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Since MLC has elements of a "do-over" to the MLCer, it's typical of them to verbalize whichever situation they are not in as what they "wish" were true. In other words, many MLCers who did not have children are angry about not having them.....while at the same time, many MLCers who do have children have said some hurtful things about "wishing" they had not had children, or that they didn't want the responsibility. And we know some MLCers abandon the children.
Yes I know you're right; I've heard this myself too. I think at some point though we all look at ourselves and say our situation will be the exception to the MLC rule, that our spouse was faking all the happy years but is finally being honest with us in MLC.
Wed2Him, my H and I do not have children. We are not married. I still stand. I don't think it necessarily makes a difference one way or another how things turn out in the long run, but that's just me.
Thanks for the feedback, ladies. I don't know what is wrong with me. I am really down on myself today, feeling so depressed.
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So, much to my surprise, this came up too in a major way and when I asked why it was such a big issue now when it was not before, I was told that it was because he had to leave a "legacy". Now maybe I'm disecting gender lines more than I should...and forgive me please if anyone reads this and finds the legacy important but....I don't. To me, that is not the reason to have children. But, with that said, I realized through other conversations that there was alot to this for H. For one thing, his feelings are that he hasn't made any kind of mark on the world. Having a child apparently would have resolved that (though I don't think so or MLC would be limited to childless couples). He also found it embarrasing, shameful even...he worried that people would perceive us as selfish.
That is the word my H used too, LEGACY! I'd never heard him talk like that. It's like all of a sudden once he started to get his validation from Facebook he was seeing these "Kodak moments" of kids his high school buddies now have and it got to him in some way. He is godfather to his friend's 2 kids and he hadn't bothered seeing them much at all until a few months after BD & now he won't do a thing with them unless he's able to take photos and post them to Facebook. It's amazing how he changed!
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Thanks for the feedback, ladies. I don't know what is wrong with me. I am really down on myself today, feeling so depressed.
Awww, I've been there myself lately. This too shall pass. ***HUGS***
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I have 3 children from my first marriage, she has 2 from her first, we both decided 17 years ago we had enough. we have talked about having one of our own several times but never went beyond talk.
All of our children are adults, So other than the fact that she blames my children( their mother was a narcisist, that only knows hate) for the rift, then shows concern for them. Her children whom we raised support me and are trying to control their anger toward their mother, I have sent them some stuff to read, but it still doesn't assuage the betrayel they feel.
Personally I have ended my stand, When she started having sex with the OM as far as I am concerned the marriage has ended. I have lived through this before with my first wife and stayed with her through 3 boyfriends over 12 years, My wife and I have been married for 17 years. The betrayel is too much for me get past right now. For me the D has to happen, it will set things right again in that I know that there were consrquences for bad behaviour, if in the future she comes to her senses then maybe we can see if we have anything left.
I do not blame others for standing, even if it is a futile gesture such as was the case with my first wife, especially if small children are involved. All 5 of mine (all girls (30,30,27,25,21)) tell me that I deserve better, that I need to move on to someone who will treat me right. I agree to a point. regardless it is what it is.
Would she be willing to reconcile, I believe so, she knows she does not want to divorce me, but is drawn to OM who knowing she was married went to work on her. Intentionally developed their relationship and is working now to get her to divorce me, I keep telling her to do it but she doesn't want to.
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1st, I really wonder if I would choose to stand if it was not for the kids. But you know... now that I think of it... they never really come up in my mental arguments. I know right now the kids are number one priority and I need to detach and GAL so I can be there for them and myself and not get sucked in and not fall apart... 2nd... If/When W comes out of the fog... I think it is the kids she is going to start saying first... Not quite answer the question... I guess I can't help but think kids are a factor
Me
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I wonder about the chances of reconciliation without kids, too. XH and I have none...feels so weird to call him that now!! Only been a few weeks since D. But OW has no children either, she's been thru 2 marriages now. Thinking she's way too self centered to want or have any. He had said he'd thought about kids at first then decided no...think that decision was a result of having his mom leave him and his sister when he was about 7th grade, S was younger. Funny, but S and H were tied at the hip and now with OW in the pic it's changed. When we were together, it was tough sometimes when S had no BF...it felt sometimes like there was no room for me!! Few months back H mentioned he didn't see S but rarely now!! Sorry, rambling!! All that has happened to us has been so contrary to what he believed or wanted to ever happen...no sense!! And to think many of our best friends went out of their way and risked their friendships with him to try to talk sense into him!!! He no longer speaks to them!! Some are older folks and so dismayed by it all and saddened to think they may never see him again!! I don't get MLC!!!!
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OK RCR reconciled she has no kids.
Stayed reconciled her kids I believe were all out of home.
They may use kids as the excuse or money to ome home. But in the long run I don't think it matters.
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I completely agree with Shantilly.
Look, some people with huge families, mortgages, pets, debt...every tie imaginable and they still walk and never return. Some with out a marriage license, no kids, no pets, nothing legally binding leave and return or never leave...whatever.
I honestly don't think it has a bearing either way. Now in other situations, yes, you often hear "I stayed for the kids" or whatever. But not in MLC. Think of how many previously good parents up and abandon their kids.
MLC just has no clear pattern of who stays, who leaves, who returns....etc. In my opinion.
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Thank you all for your comments. I guess my biggest fear is that once my H decides to cross the line and have a PA (if he has not already) it will be with a woman who has children, since most people our age do have children. I figure he may have some trouble leaving an OW to come back to me if he's gotten "attached" to her children. Like I said, before BD he wasn't even that close with his godchildren, hadn't seen either of them for over a year and then their father happened to call my H one day and the rest is history. At this time, my H was hating me and ignoring me and all that. He started spending time with the kids like they're a lifeline. One time I was even volunteering at a church function and since they had activities for kids he brought them.
Yes, this is the same church he stopped attending. Do you know how it felt to have your husband show up to this thing, while you're trying to smile and get things done, and he's playing this new role of kid-adoring uncle for everybody to see? He didn't ignore me completely but he certainly did keep his distance, as if we were nothing special to one another. He chose to put his love for me aside and give it instead to these kids and it hurt. It still hurts because he puts their photos on his phone yet he's never put my photo there. But if I were to mention this pain it'd be like I'm this evil woman who just hates the kids (I DO NOT).
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Wed,
I read the pain in your story and I can imagine how awful that was. That was a really cruel thing for him to do and shame on him. Intended or not...it was rotten.
Now, that said, remember that in MLC they want nothing they have and everything they don't. The one thing I learned in all this was to not trust anything they say. Really. It's a 50/50 issue right now. Maybe kids are at the core of what he wants but it's just as likely they aren't. I would not even presume to guess.
I even said to my H once that his whole issue was what I wrote above...not wanting what he had...wanting everything he didn't. And good luck with that in life. He agreed actually. It was a bit of a lightbulb for him I think.
My larger questions is to ask why he would go to the church as I'm sure he knew you would be there, right? Seems a little contrived, doesn't it?
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Thank you all for your comments. I guess my biggest fear is that once my H decides to cross the line and have a PA (if he has not already) it will be with a woman who has children, since most people our age do have children. I figure he may have some trouble leaving an OW to come back to me if he's gotten "attached" to her children.
If you are talking about a typical affair, I would agree that is possible.
But if you're talking about MLC, then all bets are off. Once you are out of the picture, his new woman (and her kids!) can quickly become the source of all of his problems.
MLCers who are looking for "freedom" aren't necessarily going want to be tied down to a ready-made family. In this hypothetical scenario, your H will never be their "real dad", especially if he's depressed or cycling; some women may like a man they can "rescue" or "fix", but kids don't want a stepdad like that. There can be tension between your H and his family because they see his his new woman as the "homewrecker", even if she didn't know he was married or he fed her some line about being on the verge of divorcing you (married men have been lying to women in order to get a little action on the side for ages!).
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We have no children. My stance on children, for the most part, has always been, there are way too many children in the world... too many that already need a home... are starving, unloved, etc., why bring more kids into this cruel world? If it came to it, I always thought it would be a good idea for us to adopt. Not only that, but we couldn't afford it. Selfish? Maybe. I guess I just never had a strong maternal instinct. He never really brought up the idea of children.
However, closer to bomb drop, approximately two years before, he began to mention a baby. ??? I thought about it, and I began to seriously consider us having a child. Once in a while I'd, very subtly, elude to the fact that we should just go for it. At around the time of Bomb drop, I was secretly hoping that we'd have a surprise 'cause I was finally ready to give him this amazing gift. A decision I didn't take lightly.
Anyway, he left to be with OP who, I eventually found out, had a young son. :-\ I recall, a month before bd, My five year old cousin was at my parents house and H was ecstatic to play with him. H was wrestling and giddy with joy to play with this boy and I took note of it ( I didn't know why at the time ). I often wonder about the bond between h and Op's son. I don't even know if he and OP are still together. I have no idea. I understand your thinking, wed2him4ever.
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Listen, this is just my 2cents but I actually think that kids are irrelevant in this (to a point). My H ran away from our life (including a 1 year old and a 5 year old). Since then he has a very nice set up where he sees his kids for a couple of weekends a month and for a few weeks here and there during holidays. Other than that he has no responsibilities. He can focus on his career, screw his much younger OW, be a part-time fun Dad without any real child rearing responsibilities. Given that he gets to pick and choose all the best bits from his life so that he can "have it all", maybe I should be asking what are the chances of him and I reconciling? It would seem as unlikely as if we had no children (afterall the children didn't keep him from running despite the fact that he loves them - I heard, "I don't believe people should stay together just for the sake of their children".
The MLC is about running away from what they have, believing it can be better somewhere else. If kids had ANYTHING to do with the decision making process, then the MLCers on here with children would not have left their families with relative ease.
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My larger questions is to ask why he would go to the church as I'm sure he knew you would be there, right? Seems a little contrived, doesn't it?
He did it because we have no money and it was the only free event to take them to. He is a salesman and uses lots of gas to get to his appointments. The kids live like an hour's drive away. He could not afford to go pick them up and take them back in the first place, let alone DO anything with them. But he was determined to do it regardless, which is how it has been since BD.
Once you are out of the picture, his new woman (and her kids!) can quickly become the source of all of his problems.
This is my thinking too because he treats kids more like toys than people. I don't think he REALLY REALIZES the work involved.
Anyway, he left to be with OP who, I eventually found out, had a young son. :-\ I recall, a month before bd, My five year old cousin was at my parents house and H was ecstatic to play with him. H was wrestling and giddy with joy to play with this boy and I took note of it ( I didn't know why at the time ).
Yes, my H's godson is like 4 or 5 now and that's how my H reacts. At BD my H made his rage against me all about how he's no longer happy where we're living. He kept on about how he wanted to leave, and it didn't seem to occur to him he wouldn't be close to his godchildren. They weren't even a factor. Then all of a sudden, they're like the most important people in his life. It makes me wonder if he's trying to impress someone on Facebook, make her think he'd be this great family man? I don't know!
He doesn't call these children to talk to them, and he doesn't go to visit them. The only time he goes to see them is if he gets the chance to take them out to something, some event/activity where he can take photos. It's so different from who I married.The MLC is about running away from what they have, believing it can be better somewhere else. If kids had ANYTHING to do with the decision making process, then the MLCers on here with children would not have left their families with relative ease.
I agree with you. I think my H believes right now he would have some satisfaction knowing he had a child "out there", but his behavior ever since BD has been ANYTHING BUT PARENTAL. He was more of what we consider suitable father material BEFORE he actually took any interest in children! I also think around the time of BD when he mentioned his grandfather's death hitting him (this is the man who raised him), he got some sort of idea that re-living his childhood and taking on the guardian role is an opportunity for a cosmic do-over. I didn't put it together at the time. He was ALWAYS very cool with possibly adopting a child later in life if we want to but after MLC hit he was quick to tell me that's not good enough. Again, that is SO different from him!
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Wed,
I know its been said...but I'll say it again...its all about the MLC. Children are terrific so long as they aren't another noose around the MLCers neck, right? They have no clue as to what they want. Sincerely.
Hugs,
Bon