Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Shantilly Lace on February 06, 2012, 12:21:50 AM
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Welcome to your new thread.
Link to old
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2108.0
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To whom are we addressing??? hehehe Welcome to the men from TL.
hugs Stayed
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hey ladies...welcome with us...for some reason in my head I was singing Beyonce's "All The Single Ladies" but with the words "All the Silly Ladies"...
hugs back
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Aw, Shant, you left off the thread title that was a homage to the LT thread. Thank you for startinplea we one though!
Stayed - the post about your sitch was excellent!! As long as I've been here I still wasn't completely familiar with your sitch. I knew it had been years but I had thought you were separated much longer than you were. How incredible that you can look back and be thankful for it, and I know you're doing very well now and you truly do have a beautiful family. I don't know how long my W has been in this truly, and I don't know how much longer or further things may go as they appear to have slowed dramatically. I'm sure there are ebbs and flows with it all and I plan to be in it as long as I can without going insane myself. Thank you for your words of wisdom and encouragement to us all.
Btw, for those who don't know him STP is the king of detaching and finding your own happiness and has been not only a leader but a godsend to guys like Hobo and myself to find our own lives. I think he may be near the end of his W's MLC and he has been a true warrior throughout it. Just thought that needed to be said.
WP, I'm not sure if your post was serious or in response to Rider's comment but I wanted to clarify anyway. For those who aren't familiar, the LT thread was predominantly male and very different from the format here. BonBon was one of the only regular females but several others did pop in and I have shared a couple of their stories here (with their permission). The LT thread was often like a frat party and we tended to ramble about nothing in-between times of picking each other up off the floor. It truly was a brotherhood and we even used to do conference calls. I think having that aspect here will be very beneficial to all of us and of course all are welcome and we will all benefit from putting our heads together. We already have several friend groups here and I've rarely seen anyone shunned or left out and this group will be no different. We are all a family, but us LT guys tend to bring out our inner teenager from time to time and it keeps us sane. Today should see two more arrivals that will also bring a great deal here and hopefully the others will find us as well.
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I was in LT as well. Well let´s say that I am happy for the convinience of having both Forums in one now.
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Welcome guys!
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Yes, I am aware my wife may still be in the latter stages of her MLC. As long as shes going by this made up name to all her new friends, I will assume such. The real issue I am left deciding is, "Has she completed her transformation and this is just who she is now, or is she still finding her way?"She's never been an easy one to be married to but for the last year and a half things have been as good as they ever were (outside summer '09 to fall '10).
Over the weekend she bought some hair color (2 boxes) so I guess the blonde will be coming back. Last night she did the dark and I commented I liked it and she made the comment that, "Of course you do, it's so 80's". A reference to a comment about music made earlier that day, and how I'm stuck in the ways and likes of the past. Although I was talking about the brand new Van Halen album and how great it was to resume where they left off in the 80's. I like her hair one color-it's so natural. Our entire marriage shes always been trying to change it from the beautiful dark she was born with. Whatever. I'm not here to have my situation revaluated. Perhaps one day I'll share my story here when I have more time. Work is busy! I'll be checking in once a week.
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With some trepidation I am going to post my own situation, the laid back support from LT was different. Not sure of the feedback from here.
I thought my marriage was great, I had a loving wife, OK slightly wacky, everybody thought she was a bit stuck up… maybe to the point of rudeness, but beautiful and fun and I connected with her, good mother to our boys. I love her completely.
Met her 16 years ago, she was 24, me 30, she had a 2 year old son, who I took as my own, he is 18 next week. We lived together after about 6 months and married in 2000. We were happy, had two more boys, now 8 and 6. We argued occasionally, but I never really said my bit, my parents argued a lot (but still married after 50 years) but I never saw the point, I would always say sorry (even if it was not my fault) just to move on.
In 2003 moved to a house in the country, a bit of the beaten track, (but still within 15 min of a take-away). I spent weekends renovating and extending. She wanted to move somewhere with people, we did, maybe a couple of years later than she wanted, but I had to finish the house, and the market was not so good so it took a while. I think this made her slightly unhappy, but no so much.
We moved three 1/2 years ago. The new house was good, I starting renovating to suit her tastes, she started writing a book, most of 2010 was good, one of the best years as the boys were older and at school. Eldest was old enough to baby-sit. Then came the first of October 2010, playfully in the kitchen I slapped her bum, with affection, and that was the first monster I saw, for no real apparent reason she flew at me, totally out of character.
I know now that was the visible start of this, within a few days we were back to normal, but she slowly started backing away from the relationship, pushing away when I went to hold her, turning her head when I went to kiss her, then when we would go out she started to be overly flirtatious with the guys in the pub, like a dog on heat, and to the near point of violence with guys fighting for attention.
After 6 months of this strange behaviour, although I had asked before what was up, she then gave me the ‘I don’t love you’ line, I was devastated, she said it was my fault for asking, but as it was now out there was no going back. I told her that if she didn’t want me to ask she shouldn’t having given me reason to by her actions.
I did the crying, the pleading, the flowers, the gifts, (although I always had anyway) I booked and took her to MCC, there she explained to them the exact symptoms of MLC (as I now know) she told them I was a controlling (when?) and I drank too much (seem I got too drunk at a few parties in the past) I sat there stunned and cried. We were advised to go to separation counselling. In the car afterwards she said, lets not go there again, I not ready for want what they recommend.
She tells me I did nothing wrong, I don’t need to change as I am the man she married, its just her and people change. She said that the only thing that caused this was the resentment she had built up as we didn’t move house quick enough.
She has spoken of divorce, but never done anything. Initially she was leaving, alone, then with the boys, which I refused, then she wanted me to leave, when I just laughed. Since discovering the MLC thing I have a better understanding, now I tell her this is your mess, there is the door, you can always go, but your welcome to stay.
I have been told that she is waiting for me to have an affair so she can throw me out, but I guess that is just the Monster talking.
What else, the weight loss, the new clothes, the hours in front of the mirror, the 180 from dotting mum to two little boys to messing and joking about with the eldest, whom she had left alone as his teenage grunting and lack of sense annoyed her, the cheek and backchat which she now finds funny is now rubbing off on the little ones….
Monster comes and goes, usually every 2 months at its worst (coinciding with periods). I have had out all night drinking, lies, deceit, facebook and dating site searching (I have objected). New older enabling divorced friends (ex MLC WAS) have arrived, older objecting friends have gone.
Where am I now? Limbo. She will be forty next month. Last Monster was New Years Eve, the last two weeks she has been more of her old self, I had one hour phone call last week from her, just to chat, she also popped in the office to show me her new hair cut, all rare. Right now seems to be dropping back again as her period approaches. My head will go down.
I am as detached as I can be, we still share the same bed, we still talk and sit in the same room each evening, but she does avoids my eyes. She has starting saying hello when I return from work in the past few weeks….. That is something I guess.
Its been a while, but not long in the scheme of things, I have much more to add, but I think these are the bones, no as eloquently put as others. But it does help to write it down.
Prepared now to be ripped apart….. that is a joke, I am British, jokes may not travel well.
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Thank you, Welsh. Surprisingly I don't recall having heard all your details but wow are they almost exactly like the rest of ours. No one gets ripped apart here, but there are several who are very wise and are not afraid of sending truth darts (2 x 4's as they're called here) when we are sliding down the slope. I think you will find that not only are there many here who will comfort and empathize with you, and there are several from the UK here as well (Foxberry, Nesquick 2, Mermaid etc) who do have a British sense of humor (humour?) that I've had to have clarified so that I get the joke. Lol!! Btw, what is a "take-away" anyway?
Here's hoping for a brighter day for all!
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Forgot to add last night - W put D11 up to asking me about the Rick band Cinderella and if I remembered a particular song. Now, my old W would wash her ears with bleach before listening to glam rock, but apparently she is remembering this song and wants me to as well. When D11 mentioned it to me and couldn't remember it, W leaned over to her and told her "Don't know what you got till its gone" which is from the early 90's. Why she wanted to bring this up to me I can't speculate, but ironically when she mentioned Cinderella I said," Don't they sing 'Runaway Train'?". W sternly said "no, they don't.". Now I have that stuck on my mind and wondering why she's so interested in that Cinderella song. Also noticed her cutting a couple jokes on me yesterday, probably trying to make sure I'm still roped in.
new thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2148.0
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Thundarr, I hope your joking mate, take-out, fast food joint.... food to order and take away...
Wasn't being that serious about being ripped apart.... but I tell you what, we had your Super Bowl on the BBC last night, what is that about? I had already watched Wales playing Rugby (and beat) Ireland earlier in the day.... now that is a proper game.....
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'Take-Away' -Fast food place and/or Indian/Bangaldesh/Pakistan Rice/Curry/Tandoori Chicken food on the go in UK.
Does anyone know if LifeTwo is being resurrected?
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Doc? Doc Hudson? Is that you?
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My MLC W got into totally new kind of music (that what she was used to) for upto a year before BD day. She continued with that for last 6 months and now turning back to what she liked previously. Of course, too me all this is noise and I am not trying to read a 'signal' here. I mention it to see anyone had observed such thing and it that suppose to mean anything (Signal) as opposed to typical affair of MLC-Land.
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With some trepidation I am going to post my own situation, the laid back support from LT was different. Not sure of the feedback from here.
Hi Welsh! Nice to see you here. I was just telling others that I was about to catch up on LT only to find out "here" that over "there" had been shut down? At any rate, glad you came over here and you don't need to have any trepidation. There is a different vibe here at times but nothing scary. I'm just going to respond in snippets here as I am familiar with your story and you mine.
I thought my marriage was great, I had a loving wife, OK slightly wacky, everybody thought she was a bit stuck up… maybe to the point of rudeness, but beautiful and fun and I connected with her, good mother to our boys. I love her completely.
Same with me...except we don't have kids. I thought the marriage was perfect actually...or close to it!
Met her 16 years ago, she was 24, me 30, she had a 2 year old son, who I took as my own, he is 18 next week. We lived together after about 6 months and married in 2000. We were happy, had two more boys, now 8 and 6. We argued occasionally, but I never really said my bit, my parents argued a lot (but still married after 50 years) but I never saw the point, I would always say sorry (even if it was not my fault) just to move on.
This lack of arguing...it is a common theme with many LBS'....be it the MLCer or the LBSer or both. Communication is something many of us are going to have to learn how to do...
In 2003 moved to a house in the country, a bit of the beaten track, (but still within 15 min of a take-away). I spent weekends renovating and extending. She wanted to move somewhere with people, we did, maybe a couple of years later than she wanted, but I had to finish the house, and the market was not so good so it took a while. I think this made her slightly unhappy, but no so much.
We moved three 1/2 years ago. The new house was good, I starting renovating to suit her tastes, she started writing a book, most of 2010 was good, one of the best years as the boys were older and at school. Eldest was old enough to baby-sit. Then came the first of October 2010, playfully in the kitchen I slapped her bum, with affection, and that was the first monster I saw, for no real apparent reason she flew at me, totally out of character.
Always seems to be a rather benign gesture that tips us off in the beginning....
I know now that was the visible start of this, within a few days we were back to normal, but she slowly started backing away from the relationship, pushing away when I went to hold her, turning her head when I went to kiss her, then when we would go out she started to be overly flirtatious with the guys in the pub, like a dog on heat, and to the near point of violence with guys fighting for attention.
I remember long before I had the bomb drop, my husband flirted wildly with some waitress in front of me. It was strange because he had never done that in our marriage previously. But for me, it didn't happen again for 6 months so I just sort of dropped it from my mind...hideous to see, isn't it?
After 6 months of this strange behaviour, although I had asked before what was up, she then gave me the ‘I don’t love you’ line, I was devastated, she said it was my fault for asking, but as it was now out there was no going back. I told her that if she didn’t want me to ask she shouldn’t having given me reason to by her actions.
Well, yes, it always comes back on us, doesn't it? Our fault for asking...our fault for this or that...blah..blah...blah...
I did the crying, the pleading, the flowers, the gifts, (although I always had anyway) I booked and took her to MCC, there she explained to them the exact symptoms of MLC (as I now know) she told them I was a controlling (when?) and I drank too much (seem I got too drunk at a few parties in the past) I sat there stunned and cried. We were advised to go to separation counselling. In the car afterwards she said, lets not go there again, I not ready for want what they recommend.
Another word nearly every MLCer uses to describe us..."Controlling". Again, blah, blah, blah...
She tells me I did nothing wrong, I don’t need to change as I am the man she married, its just her and people change. She said that the only thing that caused this was the resentment she had built up as we didn’t move house quick enough.
Would that really cause someone to stop loving another? Maybe she did resent it but she's using this for an excuse. They have to use something...because they don't really know. My H said the same thing about his changing...but then a few months later it would be all MY fault...then another few months and it was back to me having done nothing wrong and his changing...this is very typical MLC stuff
She has spoken of divorce, but never done anything.
This is GOOD.
Initially she was leaving, alone, then with the boys, which I refused, then she wanted me to leave, when I just laughed. Since discovering the MLC thing I have a better understanding, now I tell her this is your mess, there is the door, you can always go, but your welcome to stay.
This is also good. If they haven't left, they need to know you don't want them to but that if they do, it is their decision. This is not the same as pleading..this is being matter of fact. Good job.
I have been told that she is waiting for me to have an affair so she can throw me out, but I guess that is just the Monster talking.
Yes, exactly. Dismiss it.
What else, the weight loss, the new clothes, the hours in front of the mirror, the 180 from dotting mum to two little boys to messing and joking about with the eldest, whom she had left alone as his teenage grunting and lack of sense annoyed her, the cheek and backchat which she now finds funny is now rubbing off on the little ones….
Monster comes and goes, usually every 2 months at its worst (coinciding with periods). I have had out all night drinking, lies, deceit, facebook and dating site searching (I have objected). New older enabling divorced friends (ex MLC WAS) have arrived, older objecting friends have gone.
Again, as you know, all this behavior is very typical MLC.
Where am I now? Limbo. She will be forty next month. Last Monster was New Years Eve, the last two weeks she has been more of her old self, I had one hour phone call last week from her, just to chat, she also popped in the office to show me her new hair cut, all rare. Right now seems to be dropping back again as her period approaches. My head will go down.
She is cycling.
I am as detached as I can be, we still share the same bed, we still talk and sit in the same room each evening, but she does avoids my eyes. She has starting saying hello when I return from work in the past few weeks….. That is something I guess.
This could be much worse...this is good actually.
Its been a while, but not long in the scheme of things, I have much more to add, but I think these are the bones, no as eloquently put as others. But it does help to write it down.
Welsh, I've said this to you on LT and I maintain the same feeling now. She does not seem to be in a hurry to go anywhere. You seem to have learned to detach somewhat which I know from my own experience is really hard, particularly while living under the same roof. My advice is to continue to give her space. She clearly needs this space and there is alot more chance that she won't do anything drastic if you give her this space and remain non confrontational right now. Unless she does or says something that you need to put a boundary on of course...P
Prepared now to be ripped apart…..
Never! ;)
that is a joke,
I am British, jokes may not travel well.
Ha! But scones and clotted cream travel very well. I just ordered some from Devon...hahahha...I truly did! Can't get it in the US!
:) Again, glad to see you here.
Oh and as for the Super Bowl on BBC...I think there we are going to see alot more US stuff in the UK and vice versa. We now have BBC America station on our cable and my H and I are completely addicted to "MI5".
Interesting.
Bonnie
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welsh - thanks for your post.... we've talked on skype, so I pretty much know your sich, but isn't amazing some of the similarities?
Thinking about what your W said about not asking... and now that she told you, there is no going back.
My W said the same type of thing... even after she told me, she wanted me to ignore it, and just go about living life... and talk about normal things... except the relationship. Not know about MLC, I thought how the heck do I do that?
You are my W, and tell me that you don't love me, but you want me to pretend that you didn't say it... all the while, no empathy and no affection towards me...
All is fine, if we don't talk about the relationship. Once I bring it up, she said I 'tricked' her into talking about it, and now that the cat is out of the bag, there is no going back... Like it was supposed to be a secret that she didn't love me... and wanted to date someone else.
She also mentioned that 'any other man would just let her come to her senses herself.... meaning not talk about the relationship and ask questions....'
Sometimes I wonder if I just didn't say anything or asked what I did wrong, or if I didn't try to make it work, didn't try to 'date' her and give her gifts, where we would be now. After a while, I became obsessed with getting her back, and even got very angry. Well, I know the MLC can not be suppressed or avoided. One way or another, it would still be happening... whether or not we would still be sleeping in the same bed is a different question.
Has anyone else heard about their MLCer thinking that since the 'cat is out of the bag' it's too late....? She withdrew from me, not wanting to ML, and not wanting to hold hands or hug.... she even said she wasn't sure she loved me, which I didn't take too seriously back in Oct of 2010. I forced her to tell me what is going on... but didn't get an answer until Dec of 2010. So come to think of it, my BD could have been as early as Oct 2010.
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My MLC W got into totally new kind of music (that what she was used to) for upto a year before BD day. She continued with that for last 6 months and now turning back to what she liked previously. Of course, too me all this is noise and I am not trying to read a 'signal' here. I mention it to see anyone had observed such thing and it that suppose to mean anything (Signal) as opposed to typical affair of MLC-Land.
YES! A whole new genre of music. Now, he's mostly back to his old tastes. Bizarre.
EDIT - JMHO - This thread is better here since we can quote and change colors and do all sorts of FUN things. - OP
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Thundar, my thread is still available. Simply click on my name... go to my very first page. It's all there. I'm not an authority on MLC... quite honestly, I don't care to know. I know enough that I was reluctant to throw our marriage away, because he betrayed and broke my heart. Like most everybody on this forum, I had to dig deep and find out what I was REALLY made of. What I wanted from my life and what I was going to do about it.
Mostly, I discovered that I had to accept whatever the RESULT was. Like you, I had no idea, if my spouse and I could recover from this... if he would ever return or if I would want him if he did return. The confusion is immense and finally by backing away from HIM, I was able to honestly evaluate what I WANTED. I also, learned like many of you are now discovering, that with or without him, I would have been JUST FINE.
My concern from the moment I came in here was NEVER for the MLCer. My concern is for the LBS and helping them find the way through this, without becoming bitter and angry. Helping them to see that there is a life beyond this, with or without their spouse.
Hugs... Stayed
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welsh - thanks for your post.... we've talked on skype, so I pretty much know your sich, but isn't amazing some of the similarities?
Thinking about what your W said about not asking... and now that she told you, there is no going back.
My W said the same type of thing... even after she told me, she wanted me to ignore it, and just go about living life... and talk about normal things... except the relationship. Not know about MLC, I thought how the heck do I do that?
This is MLC talk. A rational person would never expect to lay something like that on you and then for you to ignore it. MLCers are not rational..not really. They don't want to have to explain the unexplainable nor be held accountable.
You are my W, and tell me that you don't love me, but you want me to pretend that you didn't say it... all the while, no empathy and no affection towards me...
Again, no accountability. No empathy. NONE. This is a period of unrelenting and horrifying selfishness. Hobo, if you go back to my threads, you will see lots of fights, talks, crying times between my H and me over the lack of empathy. This, in my opinion, is one of the worst traits of the MLCer.
All is fine, if we don't talk about the relationship. Once I bring it up, she said I 'tricked' her into talking about it, and now that the cat is out of the bag, there is no going back... Like it was supposed to be a secret that she didn't love me... and wanted to date someone else.
Again, all that I wrote above. This isn't rational. The only thing she is saying that is accurate here is that she does not want to talk about the relationship. That is true. She doesn't want to have to provide answers because she doesn't really know what is going on, what went wrong with her. We as rational adults, stand in the way of the MLCer when we demand answers. They want everything to be easy...even though it was their actions that made their own lives (and everyone else's) so hard.
She also mentioned that 'any other man would just let her come to her senses herself.... meaning not talk about the relationship and ask questions....'
Do you mind me being blunt? That's a load of bullsh*t. Don't believe one word of it. She's trying to make you feel bad for asking things you have every right to ask. But in her state, again, not rational...don't even try to make her understand the ridiculousness of this right now.
Sometimes I wonder if I just didn't say anything or asked what I did wrong, or if I didn't try to make it work, didn't try to 'date' her and give her gifts, where we would be now. After a while, I became obsessed with getting her back, and even got very angry. Well, I know the MLC can not be suppressed or avoided. One way or another, it would still be happening... whether or not we would still be sleeping in the same bed is a different question.
Listen, most of us beg, plead, try this, try that in the beginning. You can not blame yourself for trying to figure out why your marriage, your wife, was imploding. We all have done that. You are right and this is the most important thing: The MLC was going to happen one way or another. I badgered my husband mercilessly in the beginning and he didn't leave. So one MLCer will leave and another will not...that is most likely not at all in our control. What is important is once you've figured out that it is MLC, how you deal with it from there.
Has anyone else heard about their MLCer thinking that since the 'cat is out of the bag' it's too late....? She withdrew from me, not wanting to ML, and not wanting to hold hands or hug.... she even said she wasn't sure she loved me, which I didn't take too seriously back in Oct of 2010. I forced her to tell me what is going on... but didn't get an answer until Dec of 2010. So come to think of it, my BD could have been as early as Oct 2010.
That's just an excuse. Please believe me. Whether you asked or not, it was going to come out.
This is something I know 100%. You did not cause this and you did not start her path of destruction by asking about it. And again, you are married and have every right to know what the hell is going on in your relationship. Again, once you do know its an MLC, that is when you stop asking questions and deal with it in a different way. But no one can know that right away...do not blame yourself at all.
Hang in there.
Bonnie
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Thundarr... I sent you the Avatar because it DOES look like you!! Muscular and handsome devil you are ...
Dr. No, I take you are not Doc Hudson, do we know you by another name? Either way, welcome, and share your story...
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BonBon- thanks so much for taking the time to provide your answers... I hope things are going well with you.
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Hobo - You don't look so bad yourself......
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TB, Thundarr, Bonnie,
I am your LBS Friend - Bart_Simpson. :-)
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Bart!! So glad you found us, brother. You are in a very, very good place given how new you are to all this.
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Can anyone tell me how to mark this specific thread, so that I can visit it right away every time I visit this (Hero'sspouse) site?
Appreciate your help,
Dr. NO (aka Bart Simpson)
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Yo Bart ... welcome back to the party!
Rider
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Hobo...any time.
Things are going well for my H, for our relationship. I personally am frustrated however but that's a long story. sigh...
Hi Bart...glad to see you here!
Bon
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Hey Bart - Welcome - how goes it? Any new developments?
EDIT - HFF just showed up, hopefully he will post too. - OP
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I'm here guys! Bummer about LT but this will work.
EDIT - How about that - Welcome HFF - OP
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HFF- Welcome ;D, lots of experienced LBSers here. Hope you are well bro.
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Hi HFF!
Bonnie
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Just some thoughts... I'm remembering some things from earlier on right after BD. She spoke very fondly about us living separately, and that the kids would come and visit me and even stay with me when I got my own place.... She wanted us to be happy, and she even offered to cook me food every Sunday, so that I can have food for the week!!
When I moved out the first time for a week, and came back into the house, she threw a spatula, and said, 'I knew it was too good to be true that you left'.... When I talked about a trial separation - perhaps for a year.... She said what happens if after a year, I dont change the way I feel? Will I be STUCK here forever?
In thinking about all this - I feel less angry, and I feel more sorry for her. It is VERY destructive, but I'm realizing that it may be beyond her control.
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TB
since you asked......
New Developments: I always read on LT of 'MLC W/M going monster and wondered what exactly it meant. Well, I did not have to wait for it. It happened this weekend. My MLC W accused me of stealing (!) her travel pouch (passport/cash carrier) and when I finally located it for her (and in spite of the fact it was loaded with various currencies) ...next she asked me "Where did the US$ bills go?". I told her I don't know and asked how much $ she thought she had. She guessed af number upon which I asked her to withdraw equal amount from our joint account , which she declined.
She was bit taken back by my no response/cold response/indifferene when she brought up the subject of D. I repeated my std. lines. "This is unnecessary and will cause destruction but if she wants it, I still disgree and that it will be her decision which also means to she has to work on it".
She asked me (I have gone 180, no talk, only email or SMS as it relates to kids) if I have worked on 'equitable distribution'. I answered in affirmative. She asked for a copy of it.(!!!! She does not know what equitable distribution plan is!!!). I told her it is in my head and I will respond when I see her proposal. She looked at me as if I was talking Mandarin/Greek.
She threatened me (!) that (also accused me) if I try to poison her relationship with her family, she won't forgive me! My response: She has destroyed her relatiosnhip with her family herself.
She felt (referring to stealing of Pouch) that she does not feel like 'she is being trusted in this house' and does not see a reason to stay here. I told her (essentially reiterated) that since BD day, I have ZERO trust in her so this is not and shoudl not be a news to her.
For me...working on my detachement. Everyday making progress.
I do feel that I am not at all focused on my work (job). This bothers me a lot. Any suggestions that worked from Y'all would be appreciated.
Thanks TB for asking (update).
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Just some thoughts... I'm remembering some things from earlier on right after BD. She spoke very fondly about us living separately, and that the kids would come and visit me and even stay with me when I got my own place.... She wanted us to be happy, and she even offered to cook me food every Sunday, so that I can have food for the week!!
My MLC W talked all this and how she would be preparing all my favorite dishes when I visit her to pick up/drop off kids and how I will be her finanical advisor, business advisor, Tax accountant, etc. Also how we all are going to have a happy, joyous life and that I will be still (??????? go figure) her THE BEST FRIEND.
MLC Land, what else. Anything goes in MLC land, as long as it is irrational, illogical and does not make sense!
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Just some thoughts... I'm remembering some things from earlier on right after BD. She spoke very fondly about us living separately, and that the kids would come and visit me and even stay with me when I got my own place.... She wanted us to be happy, and she even offered to cook me food every Sunday, so that I can have food for the week!!
When I moved out the first time for a week, and came back into the house, she threw a spatula, and said, 'I knew it was too good to be true that you left'.... When I talked about a trial separation - perhaps for a year.... She said what happens if after a year, I dont change the way I feel? Will I be STUCK here forever?
In thinking about all this - I feel less angry, and I feel more sorry for her. It is VERY destructive, but I'm realizing that it may be beyond her control.
Hobo,
Interesting comments from your wife....I got very similar ones from my H.
On the day he left, he told the kids that "nothing would change." He would get an apartment near our home - the kids could even have keys! They could stay there whenever they wanted!
Well, here we are.....20 months post BD - 17-18 months since he left. He is (still) "living" in the guest room at his parents' house. Yes. Things have changed - imagine that? ;)
No apartment...no keys....no overnight trips for the kids to visit him.
I have no idea how he spends his days/nights/weekends. He used to spend every weekend away at his parents' cabin. I don't think he can afford the gasoline anymore for the trip.
Things haven't quite gone "as planned."
Yes. Sometimes I feel sorry for him, as well.
L
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Dr. No and MLC Monster.... She is saying all these things so that she can justify leaving... She needs to run and abandon, and can't help herself, can't control herself.
Don't take Monster personally, it's not about you. I find that the MLCer does a lot of projection... Alot of what they accuse you of, they may feel guilty about themselves. Just a thought... if she is accusing you of STEALING, perhaps look to see where SHE may be stealing, just a thought....
BTW - she threatened D, why do you still have a joint account. IMO, it may make sense to separate the accounts to protect yourself.
In my D scenario, while I was living at home, she had her atty draft a notice for me to have everything remain status quo... meaning I couldn't take substantial amounts of cash from our joint accounts, and even my retirement account, without her permission. In her D proposal, she proposed that I take on a large portion of her debt, even after I wrote her a check to payoff half...
It gets ugly. I know you dont want D, but if it's coming anyway, need to protect yourself. Don't know what that does to R, but once you start talking D, you have to start thinking D.
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Thanks TB.
The joint account is existing joint account and money is used to pay for mortagage and utilities. I still want her to pay 50% share of all opeating expenses.
I did separate my personal account, new business account. I also transferred money in my personal account with recorded trail (transfers) and justification. I moved sufficient money + have control over financial affairs to the extent ( I think since I don't know how the clown (Crown??) judicial system works) anything she doing foolhardy with financial matters will have serious consequences for her. And I am doing more, every day as I see fit.
Asked her to create her separate account as well and deposit her salary into that account. When she asked me who was my lawyer, I told her not to be surprised to see me on the other side saying 'Your Honor'. She was stunned. But then MLCers are stunned at wrong things. She is stunned and amazed (would have never believed in any such thing before BD or MLC) that her OM can describe the nutritious qualities (and who knows what else..calories, ANDI score, taste, smell, etc.) of specific dish from the menu card simply by dousing (I think that is the term) his hand over the MENU CARD!
Welcome to MLC Land - and loser MLC OP land
Reg. your W atty letter to freeze all joint accounts (or may be even individual personal accounts) how did it go? Did you have to abide by that or temp. hearing decided otherwise?
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'My MLC W talked all this and how she would be preparing all my favorite dishes when I visit her to pick up/drop off kids and how I will be her finanical advisor, business advisor, Tax accountant, etc. Also how we all are going to have a happy, joyous life and that I will be still (? go figure) her THE BEST FRIEND...'
amazing...sometimes its hard to tell if they are lying to themselves as much as they lie to us..or do they just weave this elaborate fantasy..that life will go on without us in the relationship/sexual equation like some kind of warped sit com..its almost childlike
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TB,
You are right about D. I must protect myself. Am not worried about R. If it has to happen, it MUST and WILL happen on my terms. And no R discussion (if and when time comes for that without Post-nuptial (at least high level agreement with clearly stated terms for moving along, and distribution of joint assets.).
To use the terms of Stock Options, I ran two scenarios.. fast D and Slow(dragged)D. Since I don't want it, she can control the speed. I want her to, since D is not priority for me. Time may come when I want to speed up on D, in which case I told her that my proposal would be ready in 48 hours!
Back to fast and slow D. I did mindmapping (listing advantages and disadvantages for both cases) and I was relieved to find that (this was objective exercise and while many may doubt my ability to do this for something so close to me -emotionally and financially, I am doing this thing for 10+ years in businesses and investments with great success) things would not be so bad at all in a fast paced D (if that is the route she takes). Until I did this exercise I was apprehensive about it. Still emotional trauma remains, but financially speaking I am comfortable with both scenarios (puts on those stocks I want to buy eagerly - and calls on those where I would be bit sad to let go of the stock, but won't be complaining since would have made enough money......just as an analogy).
Still feel sad about upcoming destruction. I will still have roof over my head, great schools for my kids, and good food to eat and keep them warm through seasons. I guess we get used to what we have. When one hair is pulled from someone either with full head or bald head, both of them are equally irritated, aren't they?
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I am now divorced from one very angry MLCer - I didn't want the divorce but he moved a break neck speed to divorce me and subsequently marry his OW - within 2 months of the divorce he was married to OW.
Anyway I saw the divorce a business transaction and looked at every option suggested as such - my lawyer wasn't my counsellor and i wasn't go to pay him £350 per hour to listen to my woes - he was there to get me the ebst eal financially as possible.
My healing and emotional stuff was sorted in parallel to the transaction of the divorce - my exH would send me the most hideous letters via his lawyer and I rarely repsonded to them - unless there was something which wa sgoing to benefit me and my kids. I am sure I drove my exH mad with frustration - he could monster spew via his lawyer incredibly well!
I had a simple mantra 'debt free, mortgage free and exH free' - if anything that was suggested was going to take me away from that goal I scrutinzed my motives very hard and rarely did anything which went against my key goal.
I am proud I have done a good fiscal deal - one which protects my children and also means I don't have to negoiate with my exH ever again - that's a good feeling!
Emotionally - I am still dealing with an MLCer - he is still hideous and angry and I am still lovingly detached and moving my life forward
Like I have said before MLC trumps divorce any day of the week!
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Dr NO..(thats awesome btw) "her OM can describe the nutritious qualities (and who knows what else..calories, ANDI score, taste, smell, etc.) of specific dish from the menu card simply by dousing (I think that is the term) his hand over the MENU CARD"...this just keeps getting better...can I add magical thinking to childlike?..not unique though..found my X was having Tarot readings after separation..she might have mentioned horoscopes once a year prior to all the fun starting
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Moving Forward - Unfortunately for me, I cannot get off scott free like you.... I have to split finances, and future income with my STBX.
Dr. No - I still am not divorced, so my retirement acct, I cannot touch until we are divorced. In her proposal, she is still laying claim to what is in my single name account.... she is still wanting for me to partially pay her debts... I am imagining things would be more expensive in the near term, as she wishes to now sell the house...
Things are not yet finalized.... As she is a stay at home mom, when I talk about 'her' money, it is only MY money placed into her acct. It is all MY money.... I get that she contributed to the family while I went to work, but that was her choice and decision. Just because she is a SAHM, everyone thinks she should be protected, and live a comparable lifestyle as she had before divorce etc. etc. etc. Everyone also thinks I am the MLCer, who up and left his wife to raise two kids on her own....
I get no sympathy from anyone.... and no empathy from her....
This is one of the differences between a male LBSer and female LBSer...
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wow TB..thats useful..I just now grasped that no fault( with all the perks) not only gives them a financial incentive..its a social one as well..I mean I suspected it but that statement really makes it clear..and sadly it even feeds the lie to themselves..they are being 'compensated' for all that they have endured...
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My MLC W got into totally new kind of music (that what she was used to) for upto a year before BD day. She continued with that for last 6 months and now turning back to what she liked previously. Of course, too me all this is noise and I am not trying to read a 'signal' here. I mention it to see anyone had observed such thing and it that suppose to mean anything (Signal) as opposed to typical affair of MLC-Land.
Dr. NO, yeah, that is usually part of the MLC script. Radical change of music to show their freedom and independence. My wife did the same (took up Lady GaGa and Katy Perry). 9mo post BD, she is starting to listen to her old CDs again now from what she was listening to when we first met. Maybe she is trying to regain what we had and remember where her mindset was when things were good. Trying not to decipher and get into that analysis paralysis but as Rider says...it is an interesting web they weave and just watching to see what happens.
Peace to you my friend.
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HFF and Doc Hudson are here now as well!!! TEH should be along shortly, but man oh man!!!!
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My MLC W got into totally new kind of music (that what she was used to) for upto a year before BD day. She continued with that for last 6 months and now turning back to what she liked previously. Of course, too me all this is noise and I am not trying to read a 'signal' here. I mention it to see anyone had observed such thing and it that suppose to mean anything (Signal) as opposed to typical affair of MLC-Land.
Dr. NO, yeah, that is usually part of the MLC script. Radical change of music to show their freedom and independence. My wife did the same (took up Lady GaGa and Katy Perry). 9mo post BD, she is starting to listen to her old CDs again now from what she was listening to when we first met. Maybe she is trying to regain what we had and remember where her mindset was when things were good. Trying not to decipher and get into that analysis paralysis but as Rider says...it is an interesting web they weave and just watching to see what happens.
Peace to you my friend.
Yup to that too...
My h. started a kind of obsession with Dave Matthews about three years ago that gradually got to the point of being the only music he listened to, however he was always asking his younger colleagues for playlists of current music, much of which he had never shown an interest in. My h. has always been a Dire Straits, Santana, Eric Clapton kind of person, taste which I shared :)
I was very surprised two weeks ago to watch a video that SIL posted on FB with my h. set to Sultans of Swing (that just happened to be the first LP I gave him when we turned 18 back in 1979!), saying that it was in honor of her best friend and bro! - Now, I suspect that SIL is going through her own MLC - just sayin...
I have no idea of what he listens to now :(
I don't quite get what this is all about, however if he is back to listening to Dire Straits, that may mean he is revisiting that time?
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I think that part of this is the experimentation thing...trying to have new interests to feel alive.
I also think, at least in my H's case, that knowing about the newer music showed he was not old...in his head.
Funny because at the same time, I found comfort going back to the music of my youth....showing I AM old. HA!
Bon
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hobo (TB),
I didn't get off 'scot free' I am afraid - I am self employed and receive £250 per child per calendar month for my 2 children (they go to private school and he pays half of their fees along with extras) - this means that my exH pays a princely sum of £8.20 per child per day... I pay for the vast majority of their things and stuff we do - I work to an incredibly tight budget but my kids are worth it..it sticks in my claw that he has holidays and a jet set lifestyle (all on credit cards but the perception is that he is doing ok and 'looking after his kids' - OH if only people knew the truth) - I thank God every single day that I am financially independant and have always earned my way - it means I have choices and have a few financial goals of my own but I am financially much worse off than when I was married
Only today he is moaning about paying me a £75 contribution towards some tree work I had to have done when a tree of ours fell in the road in December last year - he claims poverty but he is wearing new clothes, glasses and bits and bobs for his car (remember the snow socks girls!!) - but money is one of his key issues he has to deal with.
I KNOW my kids will look back on their post Dad departure childhood and say it was calmer, fun, happy, exciting, involving and full of adventure - because that is what they say now - my kids see their dad every other weekend and maybe one extra night in the intervening period - he is missing out on so much and I still have sadness about that but...I can only control me and he has to understand the consequences of his actions.
Money can be an evil thing - having a deisre for it isn't a bad thing but being attached to it is in my view - my exH became a mean and ugly man and a lot of it was about money and control - I would often benchmark situations by asking myself 'if we were still married what would we do right now' and this helped me make the right decision for my kids - it isn't their fault their dad is in the middle of one ugly MLC.
Time will do it's thing Hobo and I hope you can reconcile 'paying' for your wife in the future - you made goals together when married and having those ripped from us is one of the areas we grieve for - I try and see the good in every situation (however small and insignificant at the time)
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I had a simple mantra 'debt free, mortgage free and exH free' -
I like your Mantra, MF.
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Thank you - Moving Forward... I do hope I can reconcile me paying her... I do get that she needs to live too, and that she is caring for the kids.
I did have hopes and dreams, and I thought with her... It's not only emotionally destructive for me and the kids, but it is financially destructive too.
At 13 months, the emotional hurt for me has numbed a bit... and detachment is working somewhat... I am cycling between anger, and feeling sorry for her. The financial bit will hurt not only now, but into retirement. I am angry about that. If she wants to live her life without me, then do it without my money too...
Life certainly would be much easier with the money problems to worry about.
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I think that part of this is the experimentation thing...trying to have new interests to feel alive.
I also think, at least in my H's case, that knowing about the newer music showed he was not old...in his head.
Funny because at the same time, I found comfort going back to the music of my youth....showing I AM old. HA!
Bon
Ah BonBon, you summed it up quite well. I just couldn't find the words but you did. Simple and true how if they hang on to new, lively, teenage music (or college depending how far back they are reaching) it helps them to feel young again. I too found comfort (and fueled anger unfortunately in some) of the type of music I listened to from my youth. Maybe Mitzpah has something as my wife has now reverted back say 80% to what she was listening to when we met. Sometimes it is specific songs and I read that she is playing them to me to get my attention or get through to me that she is trying and she does care and love me. But, thats the analysis paralysis I avoid at all costs.
Peace to you all
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FYI ... LT must of paid the ransom on their domain successfully. The thread is back.
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Thanks Rider.
As much as I like this site, I am/was attached to LifeTwo.com. Dr. NO, Master Bart.. Detach, Detach, Detach or as they say in Sanskrit - Sanyasta Mayah: Sanyasta Mayah: Sanyastah Mayah:
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"as they say in Sanskrit - Sanyasta Mayah: Sanyasta Mayah: Sanyastah Mayah" .....
Ok Bart ... now you are blowing my mind!
Either LT or here Dr. NO, we shall see you around the block.
Rider
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Strange thing, a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, there really are not a lot of guys on here that post much. Being a guy I like to read the guys more so than anything, all of a sudden L2 shows up! Now I am thinking wtf happened to us, this was a busy forum, now we got invaded. Very different but it is growing on me. I spent to much time on here this weekend trying to keep up. I think the mix of the guys and gals is good. Hfb
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LOL...Rider...blowing my mind...you are the hippie we all love...or THE DUDE!!!
Peace bro!
So if we take the thought that we marry the person we are at most conflict when we leave our parents...for me it is my father...I have started to teach myself a new mantra in Greek (or in Fringe speak...GEEK)
~na einai kalytero athropo apo ton patera toy~
translation: be a better man than your father
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did he just call us names??
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In vino veritas.
Age quod agis.
Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego.
Iuventus stultorum magister.
In pace requiescat.
:P
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Wow, Rover. I....don't know what to say. Very deep and edumacated you are.
As for the music debate, my W started listening to Lady GaGa and Katy Perry as well. She had always been into Black Sabbath, Rob Zombie and Korn but still always dabbled in some underground stuff as well. The pop crap REALLY got annoying, but then she starting borrowing and lending 80's CD's with her lawyer friend and suddenly we were listening to "Hey Mickey" again. Since I kept the iMac when she left, I probably have the greatest collection of 80's music in this county burned onto my hard drive and most of them came from lawyer boy. Oh the sick irony. Might fire up a little Genesis later.....
LT is back?!? That's great but it means I have to catch up all the 500 posts that I was behind after not logging in for 2 weeks. And I hope that all the LT guys continue to contribute here as I will. I truly think the new and different perspectives combined with the regulars on here has so much potential to help us all understand this beast better.
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I think they catch a train into the past..question is..do they ever realize they are going the wrong way ?...sad thing is..its usually a one way ticket
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I think they catch a train into the past..question is..do they ever realize they are going the wrong way ?...sad thing is..its usually a one way ticket
Well that was sufficiently melancholy enough to make me want to SLIT MY WRISTS! Why bother trying then? Just walk away, go lick your wounds somewhere else. We are the creators of our own destiny. Only we can make ourselves happy... not our spouse, kids, family... JUST US! I have also found if you expect the WORST, you are pretty much assured of getting it.
Let's hope she got a "return ticket" ... hugs Stayed
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I think they catch a train into the past..question is..do they ever realize they are going the wrong way ?...sad thing is..its usually a one way ticket
My W took a plane. It was a one way ticket.
honour
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I think they catch a train into the past..question is..do they ever realize they are going the wrong way ?...sad thing is..its usually a one way ticket
So true.
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Strange thing, a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, there really are not a lot of guys on here that post much. Being a guy I like to read the guys more so than anything, all of a sudden L2 shows up! Now I am thinking wtf happened to us, this was a busy forum, now we got invaded. Very different but it is growing on me. I spent to much time on here this weekend trying to keep up. I think the mix of the guys and gals is good. Hfb
Join us at the wild party on Lifttwo.com (My wife is having midlife crisis, please help.....thread). It is fun, educational and offers support.
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Having been on both sites for quite some time, I think that what Stayed wrote a few posts above is worth considering. Lifetwo is a great place...but...there are more people here, more archival information, and more stories of reconcilliation...and when none seemed possible.
If there is anyone who experienced what seemed like a one way ticket, only to have found the train returned to the home base forever and eventually in a much more enjoyable version, it is Stayed.
If you want to see that hope is possible, read Stayed's story.
Bon
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I think they catch a train into the past..question is..do they ever realize they are going the wrong way ?...sad thing is..its usually a one way ticket
Well that was sufficiently melancholy enough to make me want to SLIT MY WRISTS! Why bother trying then? Just walk away, go lick your wounds somewhere else. We are the creators of our own destiny. Only we can make ourselves happy... not our spouse, kids, family... JUST US! I have also found if you expect the WORST, you are pretty much assured of getting it.
Let's hope she got a "return ticket" ... hugs Stayed
Stayed,
You crack me up!! If you didn't come from experience I'd think you're crazy (may still be, ha!) but I know you are very wise in this. Honour's follow-up was equally humorous yet filled with great sadness. Ultimately, we are all unable to see from each other's perspective despite our shared experiences. But, I for one hope and pray to be where you are one day Stayed.
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Well attitude is nine tenths the journey Thundarr! It won't happen on it's own and it won't happen by expecting the skies to fall. You FIX you first. Then see how the rest looks later.
Oh, I wasn't trying to be funny!
hugs Stayed...
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We are the creators of our own destiny. Only we can make ourselves happy... not our spouse, kids, family... JUST US! I have also found if you expect the WORST, you are pretty much assured of getting it.
Agreed! :)
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We are the creators of our own destiny. Only we can make ourselves happy... not our spouse, kids, family... JUST US! I have also found if you expect the WORST, you are pretty much assured of getting it.
Agreed! :)
I am an advocate of being optimistic, of looking on the bright side. Giving oneself positive affirmations and giving thanks for the good things we have. For over two decades, every day I would give thanks for having a wonderful wife and two healthy children. Today I do not have a wife.
We may have some influence on how we react to the events that befall us but destiny itself may be beyond our influence.
honour
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Our lives are not over yet, Honour! Perhaps our destinies have not yet been reached, or there are more then one, in fact, perhaps there are many!
All I know, it is not always what we expect but it usually is for the best. We can argue about the logic, our faiths, whatever, but we honestly NEVER know for sure what lies ahead.
Be strong, be kind to yourself, let the process do its work...
hugs Stayed
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We are the creators of our own destiny. Only we can make ourselves happy... not our spouse, kids, family... JUST US! I have also found if you expect the WORST, you are pretty much assured of getting it.
Agreed! :)
I am an advocate of being optimistic, of looking on the bright side. Giving oneself positive affirmations and giving thanks for the good things we have. For over two decades, every day I would give thanks for having a wonderful wife and two healthy children. Today I do not have a wife.
We may have some influence on how we react to the events that befall us but destiny itself may be beyond our influence.
honour
Honour,
Our destinies are in God's hands.
But, I hear you about spending twenty years giving thanks... I spent thirty plus years and I still do even though I don't 'have' a husband - I cannot do otherwise, I am compelled by grace. Sometimes I feel like ??? What am I doing?
I know you have a vanisher, mine is moving along in that direction - I haven't actually seen or spoken to him in over six months now. I can only trust that God is doing something even if I can't see it or even understand it.
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Strange thing, a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, there really are not a lot of guys on here that post much. Being a guy I like to read the guys more so than anything, all of a sudden L2 shows up! Now I am thinking wtf happened to us, this was a busy forum, now we got invaded. Very different but it is growing on me. I spent to much time on here this weekend trying to keep up. I think the mix of the guys and gals is good. Hfb
I should say I like the mix on this thread. Guess I should say WELCOME TO THE GUYS FROM L2. Hope you can stick around for a while. Hfb
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While I don't have any hopes or aspirations for the big R..I am grateful for my marriage and all that it was ..I don't regret that at all..despite everything that has happened....how it ended was not my doing and was beyond my control.
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Our destinies are in God's hands.
Is that a law firm? I need their number :)
honour
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Yeah, it's 1-800-REALITY.
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I too was thankful every day, and this is not rewriting history. When we separated 18 years ago I realized the mistake I had made and prayed and prayed to get my family back. I did, at least temporarily. Now it's gone again and not of my doing this time (as far as I know). I will continue to pray daily, with even more determination than then, but God may only answer once.
Honour, it's unusual to see humor from you (if it is meant to be funny that is) and coupled with wisdom as always. You may not realize it, but you know Doc from PP but he was under a different alias then I believe. Mac49 is a vet from there as well, Doc.
I actually checked in on the DB boards again the other night and was rasa toy surprised not to be lambasted. There were a couple more restored marriages there and sone were males, so there may be hope for us all yet.
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I actually checked in on the DB boards again the other night and was rasa toy surprised not to be lambasted. There were a couple more restored marriages there and sone were males, so there may be hope for us all yet.
Hey Thundarr,
I think the hope is over once you move on. Obviously it is not pinned on someone else's success, I here you make this statement often, at least it seems. To me I see your sitch as a success story in the future, but then that is how I see it and that is what I want for everyone here. Your wife has enough trust in you to leave you with the kids as she is finding herself, you say she is willing to do whatever she has to to help keep the house. I honestly do not see her going to far away from you.
Do your mirror work and in time you will have your whole family back. It may not be as you remember it and I hope that it is better than it was. I am pulling for you Thundarr!
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Quote from: Mitzpah on Today at 11:48:07 AM
Our destinies are in God's hands.
Is that a law firm? I need their number :)
honour
Yeah, it's 1-800-REALITY.
I'd have to say, I laughed in spite of myself, as this is the TRUTH...the balances of spiritual law and justice are located within the offices of The Eyes AND the Hands of God; but these, unlike the physical symbol of Justice with her scale and blindfold, are NOT blind...He is ALL seeing and ALL knowing. :)
REALITY is HIS specialty, as the truth, will set you free, indeed. :)
Only God knows what will happen going forward, as well as holding various outcomes in His Hands/His Destiny; and I can say from experience, He has been known to allow a LBS to know what's in the future through the use of Intuition that He gives to people during this time.
I believe it is one way He balances certain destiny type "scales" in His Favor to keep His Will in line, when He guides people in His own unique way. :) Otherwise, more people would walk away forever once this crisis rears its ugly head, and shows itself.
Through trials such as these, is His Glory shown for His purposes, and His reasons.
Just a few thoughts I had when I read these quotes. :)
God really does have a sense of humor, and I have found He's NOT the "fire and brimstone" perpetually angry and totally destructive God I was raised with as a child. :)
One last note, some people say they don't believe in Him or His existence; but I have found Him to believe in THEM, regardless. :)
Take care. :)
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Be nice if yall could kjeep this going, we could burn the server down with the activity like we had at L2, Keeping up with 2 sites is more work than anything else and I already have a full time job.
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Hey Tigger,
I to hope this thread keeps going also, I think LT went down for good reasons. A few of you guys had moved over already and I enjoy the man camaraderie to a point anyway. Things do happen for a reason! Hfb
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I see it keeping going. Some of us already split time and others seem to have enjoyed their time spent. It's odd that some positive things have happened in just this short period of time due to LT being temporarily down as some members seem to have greatly benefitted from HB and others' help. Things really do happen for a reason.
Tigger, I was wondering when you would show up. A few LTers lurked but never posted, and the more of us the better. It's kind of like an invasion or something, and we were the scouts. Lol
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Tigger...welcome to the HS site from your LT friends.
Y'all, Tigger has helped me immensely over the past several months in moving me forward. He has innate connection with me and sends me texts at just the right moment when I am struggling. He senses me somehow and he is a true friend and brother LBS. I call him the SAGE as his level of knowledge with our Heavenly Father's words is used just at the right time. His is the only texts I save now to remind me to let God do His work.
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So you're deleting mine?
Totally agree about Tigger as I've met few people with such a knowledge of the Bible and he has helped me greatly as well. We were the first Lifetwoers to get together but there needs to be an LBS soirée bash. TEH wants to plan for Spring and I'm up for it!
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THUNDARR = deleting yours...sorry bro, didn't mean any offense. Actually I delete nearly everything now as it was a change that He guided me to do. The Lord told me to let go of all the messages and stop documenting my wife's behavior and let him do His work. So really, I don't have nearly anything at all in inbox/sent folders. Helps the cell phone to in receiving better I think.
"we'll always have Paris..."......LOL...if anyone gets that remark
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STNG
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STNG
What does STNG mean?
honour
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As someone who was also an LT participant on and off, if you are just joining here, I'm sure you recall me quoting or referring to RCR (Roller Coaster Rider), HB (Hearts Blessing) and Stayed, and of course OP who is also on both LT and this forum.
Again, if you're just coming on board, I want to reinforce what Thundarr said...read all you can here. There is a wealth of information in the archives. If nothing else, check out the stories of RCR, HB and Stayed.
Glad to see so many of you here!
Bon
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Oh, and also, check out the "Links to reconcilliation/reconnecting" archive. These are current stories of MLC/LBS in the process of working things out and the trials and tribulations while doing so...
Bon
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I am glad to be of service, ( I Robot reference for the non geek) in some small way. I would love to meet up with some more of the the guys, I really enjoyed meeting up with Thundarr, wonderful man, he is. Had some good food and a few beers, would be fun with a whole bunch of us invading a place lol, let me know if this is going to come to pass.
I am there
Moc, my friend, we both benefit from our interaction, believe me it is not all one one way. I truly appreciate your faith, your dedication to your family, your willingness to make changes in yourself as needed. A lot of good qualities, in the end as long as we do things HIS way, He will give us the peace we need (Phillipians 4:5-7).
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STNG...I believe 'we'll always have Paris' is from Star Trek Next Generation
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W just called and we are taking the kids to our favorite restaurant and to the circus on Saturday. I can't believe I just typed that to be honest as it seems like a normal weekend. No expectations will there be. In a normal situation this would be great news. In this mess, it could be disastrous. W also will be with the kids at the house waiting for me to get home tonight which is different also. I really have to laugh!!!
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STNG...I believe 'we'll always have Paris' is from Star Trek Next Generation
he he he...not sure about that one that I was thinking of....was more along the lines of "CASABLANCA"...talk about your MLC story...sheesh
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Moc, my friend, we both benefit from our interaction, believe me it is not all one one way. I truly appreciate your faith, your dedication to your family, your willingness to make changes in yourself as needed. A lot of good qualities, in the end as long as we do things HIS way, He will give us the peace we need (Phillipians 4:5-7).
Tigger would be right; it's NEVER "one sided" benefits that result, as God puts people together for a reason; to encourage each other, help each other, and yes, to teach each other.
As much time as I've put into the forum in the past two years, as a mentor, I've learned a great deal from the interactions I've had with others going through their various journeys.
You learn so many aspects through this trial and many others, most of all, you learn to allow Him to guide your steps in all ways, and He will, indeed, make your crooked paths straight. :)
I've seen the Lord work in mysterious ways over time, and I've seen Him work miracles to show His Glory clearly for others to also see.
His time and ours is NOT the same, but since He knows the future, and because He also has the whole picture, and we don't; it would behoove us to completely trust Him for what's ahead. :)
Following Him exclusively could be seen as the hardest aspect of all, but I can tell you from experience, it is the MOST rewarding if you're willing to simply follow His direction, and obey Him to the letter. :)
He knows people better than they know themselves, and He can and will direct one to do various things to help turn a situation around in a positive fashion. You may not see results right then, but that's also why it's called having complete faith in Him who knows all things that will come in the future.
:)
God will always go with you and it will be a safe journey, as long as you continue to allow Him to walk with you. :)
Take care. :)
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some interesting articles... http://www.stolenvows.com/index.html
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Ok what has happened to the LT guys? Hfb
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site came back up and they seem to be posting there, 75 in the last 2 days, myself I cant keep up with 2 sites too much like work, I barely have time for one.
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we're still around
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I am lurking over THERE, reading checkin you all out. Hfb
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I live. I would love to see all the guys from there continue to post here. Every site needs a Rover (but you gotta bring over the Alf pic!).
As for me, I'm stressed about Saturday. I'm not hopeful, but this is......strange. Probably just a cycle toward us but thats what stresses me. Is there really no hope that this could be anything more?
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Thundarr ... Saturday does not matter. Take it in stride. It is a series of Saturdays over a long period of time is when you can tell the difference, from what I'm told. Even if it is a disaster (which I doubt), some good will come from it.
I've got my own possible family sitch on Saturday night with my nephew's wrestling tournament. Will she go? Will she not? Don't know. Hope so. If not, I'm going anyway. Got it?
We are getting together tomorrow to go over her investment portfolio. Will it happen? Don't know. I hope so. But won't be surprised if it doesn't. I have great hopes. Just very little expectation anymore. Ironic, no? Maybe I am lying to myself, but it helps. Fake that part until you make it T.
Peace hombre.
Rider
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Well LT is not as crazy as I thought it might be. Read todays posts it is not as wild as I imagined. Seems like a bunch of guys trying to work there way through this mess. Hfb
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Thundarr...I don't envy you..once more into the fire..but maybe the Dude is right..in the greater scheme ?...what else can she do to you..?
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As for me, I'm stressed about Saturday. I'm not hopeful, but this is......strange. Probably just a cycle toward us but thats what stresses me. Is there really no hope that this could be anything more?
Whether you realize it or not, Thundarr; you're allowing expectations to rise within you....and one of the lessons you learn is to have little to NO expectations.
MLC is a process that takes TIME to complete; and a watched pot never boils...so stop watching, and get on with your life. :)
If it works out, it does, if it doesn't, try again later.
You need to learn to just sit on the curb, eat your popcorn, and watch her whiz right by...if she stops to have a word or two or three with you, that's great, if not....the only person you can control is yourself, not anyone else.
It's not easy, and I know it's not; but getting stressed about it isn't going to help you at all, and MLC'ers for some reason have a "homing" device that picks up stress, raised expectations, and they will turn these on you every time.
You're still too focused on her; you haven't handed her lock, stock, and barrel to the Lord to work with...and as long as you hold on, you cannot let go. :)
I hope this helps. :)
Take care, it'll always work as it should; maybe not in the way you think it should, but one way or the other it'll work out. :)
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If popcorn isn't your preferred spectator food, you can choose, we don't mind. The point is Thundarr, try not to worry about it. As everybody is telling you, you are having EXPECTATIONS... get rid of those things lad... they will make your heart hurt. Some people have to give up on HOPE, as they simply cannot separate hope and expectations. If that is what you have to do, then give it up. Know though, you will be able to HOPE when you see a reason to do so.
Just go with the flow Thundarr... enjoy what you can of it. If it happens super, if not... heck, maybe next time.
hugs Stayed
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HB says: sit on the curb, eat your popcorn, and watch her whiz right by....
Thundarr, she is so right as is STAYED. It might be entertaining to to watch...you have seen some crazy stuff and it might be crazier...so enjoy your life. No expectations and you will get thru it...you always have pal. Brohan, you have come so far and I have seen tons of good things out of you. I pray your weekend is good as we seem to be both going to enjoy some time away from the humdrum of life. I am going out with my wife also. Cheers pal, keep your chin up, don't look at her directly too much and LET HER PURSUE YOU! ENJOY!
Ah heck, popcorn...get out a slab of ribs and crack open a cold one!
Peace my friend...do what Rider does...abide THE DUDE!
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I'll have margaritas and nachos as my train-watching food. Lol!!
I'm doing my best to drop expectations, but whether it's false hope or possibly the stunning of Intuition I don't know but I sense something. HB and Stayed both said "if" and not that anything is hopeless I noticed. I've seen miracles that have happened (in fact I am one as I should not have lived at birth due to being sooooo premature. Or, maybe I didn't....) and see his work every day as I work for a Christian organization so i do still hold onto FAITH. And, to me, with faith must come hope. *sigh*
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Nothing is EVER totally hopeless! Sometimes what you hope for doesn't work out and something completely different does... and that becomes MORE THEN YOU EVER HOPED FOR! Life is a miracle! Joy is self induced! We can be happy, sad, miserable, joyful... the choice is ours.
I am pretty sure you will choose joy and happiness, it just makes life so much more pleasant.
hugs Stayed
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As for me, I'm stressed about Saturday. I'm not hopeful, but this is......strange. Probably just a cycle toward us but thats what stresses me. Is there really no hope that this could be anything more?
Whether you realize it or not, Thundarr; you're allowing expectations to rise within you....and one of the lessons you learn is to have little to NO expectations.
MLC is a process that takes TIME to complete; and a watched pot never boils...so stop watching, and get on with your life. :)
If it works out, it does, if it doesn't, try again later.
You need to learn to just sit on the curb, eat your popcorn, and watch her whiz right by...if she stops to have a word or two or three with you, that's great, if not....the only person you can control is yourself, not anyone else.
It's not easy, and I know it's not; but getting stressed about it isn't going to help you at all, and MLC'ers for some reason have a "homing" device that picks up stress, raised expectations, and they will turn these on you every time.
You're still too focused on her; you haven't handed her lock, stock, and barrel to the Lord to work with...and as long as you hold on, you cannot let go. :)
I hope this helps. :)
Take care, it'll always work as it should; maybe not in the way you think it should, but one way or the other it'll work out. :)
Thundarr, you are getting great advice. You are still trying to hold on. You have NOT let go. Drop the rope. Only then can you focus on not only surviving, but thriving, in these difficult times. You are still trying to catch a whiff. Stop it.
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I understand, but it is SO hard not to be hopeful right now. W called this morning to remind me about tomorrow and said she will pick me up at 10. She also let slip that she "had" to get her nephew to help her with the furniture she recently bought. Where was lawyer boy? Again, this will be 6 weekends in a row she's spent with the kids instead of going to his and his W's house. Why?
I'm more detached than I sound as this usually doesn't cross my mind, but this is just so different. She hasn't even rode in the same car as me in 5 months and now has planned a day. I know there will likely beca huge dark cloud to this silver lining but what will be will be.
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Hey Thundarr,
My wife and I have been doing things together and having some good times for a year now. There are ups and downs and and this is just going so slow, I have hope but I am still standing back and letting her come to me. I do know that you do not flip a switch and all is back to normal. We are both working towards the same goal but the process is slow. Maybe this is because we are still living together? Hfb
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I have hope but I am still standing back and letting her come to me. I do know that you do not flip a switch and all is back to normal. We are both working towards the same goal but the process is slow. Maybe this is because we are still living together?
Nope, it's because it is mid life crisis... nothing moves quickly with it, whether you are living together or separately.
Just let it happen. Remain calm, no pressure. No expectations! Get some more Nachos and salsa, I think was your preferred "watching" food.
hugs Stayed
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Find the balance between having hope and having no expecations...they are two different things...one deals with an overall optimism and wish, the other deals with getting through each day, one day at a time, and dealing with whatever happens as it happens.
Bon
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HFB. what was the difference between just living together and living together put working on R. Was that the result of a discussion or did the relationship just slowly start to have more 'life' in it, did W just slowly come 'back' to you?
From my own perspective of living at home with a W in MLC, how do you know the difference on the slow road to R between a W who may have decided that things are fine as they are, with no pushing or comments from H, no touching, etc, so she'll just cake eat, from a W that starts being calmer, kinder, and starts calling you during the day.
Maybe that is not as clear as I wish..... but when in a 'happier' kind of limbo, when all is fine at home with no monster and things are on more of an even keel do you know whether things are looking better. What if W thinks that she is onto a good thing and is happy for that to carry on...... is this the time to make my own moves forward or do I still stand back and let her make all the moves and see what happens...... and what if it doesn't....
LT down, hope only temp. Glad we not as wild as rumoured....
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Welsh,
Maybe I can help...
You're talking about the status quo. Warrior Priestess and I had a discussion recently on her thread about this. I very much feared and suspected my H was going to go on in replay, or edge of replay forever as I knew that I had to let him go through his MLC. He indeed became nicer over time and I was greatly afraid that somehow, he would be nice yes, but I would never see him come through this tunnel.
For me, this was the time that detachment was key because I did believe his kindness was showing a slight progression through the tunnel...that meant perhaps he was indeed seeing things more clearly and figuring out that he had treated me badly. But he wasn't ready to see all yet (he's working on that now we hope...but I digress). At any rate, I figured that if he could see that he had treated me badly, he would also come to see that I was detaching from him. I put very little interest into his problems, and the same went for the things he was doing that bothered me.
Example: Whereas before I detached, I would go nutty regarding his facebook activities. After detachment, I simply showed ZERO interest unless there was something I HAD to address.
What you typically see if they are moving forward is less monster, slowing of replay, more references to you as their spouse, you as a couple. During replay, my husband always used "I" or "Me"....never "We" or "Us". Rarely would he even use the words wife or married or anything like that.
When he started to see me lose interest in our relationship, he started using words like that again. There seemed to be a bit more interest in my life, my day again.
This was a good time to do small pushes, subtley, here and there. I had to find a way to validate his feelings (being that lighthouse he would want to return to) and at the same time VERY subtley let him know his drama was NOT my concern.
I'm thinking of another example from Facebook. He would come home and tell me about some post he wrote, how clever it was. I would say oh, that's' funny. Then he might say, well, no one really responded. And I would say, well, Facebook is really a superficial relationship place. Its not really where you find true validation in life. Then I would be done with it. Walk away, change the subject, not try to explain any further. Just statements of fact, not said harshly at all.
This is a time for you to mirror her. Respond well to her niceness. Reject anything negative by ignoring or walking away or a quick and short response.
Hope that helps.
Bon
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Here come my LT brothers back!!
Btw, I'm stocking up on plenty of nuts for the squirrel tomorrow. I think it may be a test run for vacation and I'm at least a bit happy she's planning something for the future.
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And I would say, well, Facebook is really a superficial relationship place. Its not really where you find true validation in life. Then I would be done with it. Walk away, change the subject, not try to explain any further. Just statements of fact, not said harshly at all.
This is spot on both in substance and procedure.
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everyone knows that FB is the place to go to look for twuu luv and foreverness
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Rover,
You ALWAYS crack me up!
Thanks Doc!
Welsh, I used the Facebook story because in my relationship, it was a replay behavior for my H....and something I could pretty much ignore...but also something that gave me opportunity for truth darts.
Good luck,
Bon
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LT down, hope only temp. Glad we not as wild as rumoured....
I knew my sabotage plan would work!
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HFB. what was the difference between just living together and living together put working on R. Was that the result of a discussion or did the relationship just slowly start to have more 'life' in it, did W just slowly come 'back' to you?
Not sure how to answer first sentence. this last year has been weird My W came out of a major funk at valentines day last year, I gave her a gift that had to do with her hobby a camera, at this time we were strapped financially but the look on her face and her even accepting it and the tears that came out of her and my eyes right then I new we were going to make it. We have had some good times but I still felt distance and I did not want to feel the hurt of BD so I was letting the cards fall where they may. Plus I knew we were not ready for each other. Yes she is slowly coming back to me and I to her, this may be just short lived, and truthfully it is weird I almost feel like I am learning my wife all over. I do not know how to approach her towards intimacy so I don't. I have a hard time talking to her sometimes but it seems to be getting easier. Hfb
From my own perspective of living at home with a W in MLC, how do you know the difference on the slow road to R between a W who may have decided that things are fine as they are, with no pushing or comments from H, no touching, etc, so she'll just cake eat, from a W that starts being calmer, kinder, and starts calling you during the day.
Maybe that is not as clear as I wish..... but when in a 'happier' kind of limbo, when all is fine at home with no monster and things are on more of an even keel do you know whether things are looking better. What if W thinks that she is onto a good thing and is happy for that to carry on...... is this the time to make my own moves forward or do I still stand back and let her make all the moves and see what happens...... and what if it doesn't....
LT down, hope only temp. Glad we not as wild as rumoured....
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Foreverness. That's a new one. Hilarious.
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New thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2148.0