Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: SpecialK on February 07, 2012, 05:12:12 AM
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I know this may sound like I'm clutching at straws, but how many of have experience your MLCer's having more than one OW/OM (not at the sametime)?
Hope my question makes sense
SKxxx
added OM at specialk's request Feb.20/2012
previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=423.0
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Special K:
I did not experience this in my situation (to my knowledge), but it is my understanding that it is very common for an MLC'er in replay. I have a low energy MLC'er it seems more common in others.
Sassy
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So far mine transferred monogamy to Bowsette :-*
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mine made it known to me that he had serveral ladie friends
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Sk,
My H's first OW was his ex-wife (from 35 years ago). This was a long distance EA that may have turned into a PA. I know that he saw her face to face for a weekend 9 months before BD. Two months before BD he emailed her and promised to divorce me so that they could be together.
Well, that "relationship" flopped - I guess. I don't think she was interested.
Then, 6 months after BD - he started up with his ex-high school girlfriend. Another long distance EA that culminated in a weeklong trip for the two of them to New York. I don't think he was interested after their time together.
I believe he started up with OW #3 6-8 months after that. I'm not sure if that is going on, if anything really went on....or what that was all about.
This clearly shows that the crisis is NOT about the OW. The OW is just a symptom and an attempt to avoid....nothing more. If the OW is gone....they will look for another....or not. It doesn't end the crisis...because the crisis was NEVER about the OW.
L
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I know its not an OW.... but at least 3 OM on the go... actually all at once... Her Soul Mate... her Father Figure and PA
Z.
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Hi Special K.
My H has recently acquired a new OW.
His first OW R ended around September after more than 2 years. Apparently she got fed up with him as he would not make a commitment to her by D me. This also coincided with us having our longest T&G to date, lasting about 2months where he confessed that he had been unable to move on and that he still loved me. During this time he began inviting me along with him and the girls to the cinema etc.
He began spending Saturday evenings with us, watching TV and eating takeaway. After a while I think he got spooked and felt he was falling back into his old life, so he did a runner.
More or less straight away a new ow appeared on the scene. He is now repeating his replay activities with as much enthusiasm as he did the first time around.
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Oh Glimmer, sorry, that must be really hard to digest. You'd think they'd learn after the first. Hugs to you :)
My H has said he's had EA's with other women at work. Have no idea if it's the same OW and he's just trying to make it sound as if it didn't start before he left me. He was also exchanging pictures with a 20 something girl about 10 months before he left and while we were in marriage counselling. Seems as though he was actively pursuing anyone who would take him so he could leave us. Did take him a while but he finally nabbed his prize....belly dancing bimbo :o
SP
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I think I'm the poster girl for this -- my H is on I think the 5th one. First was classic mate predator; others have been him looking for the holy grail. As far as I know it has been him that has ended all of them, either he hasn't been in love enough or there has been some other issue, he hasn't said what. Latest OW has been around for a year or so; he's now saying that he's serious about this one and introducing here to family, etc.
I've also experienced long-ish T&G's in between; after the first he even said he missed me and wanted to work on things. At first I didn't know it was "in between" as he was keeping it all very much under wraps; the pattern only emerged in the rear view mirror. Don't know what will happen with this one; he's talking d this time.
And like Glimmer, the new OWs appear pretty quickly one after another. From what I can piece together he says that since he isn't in love with me he wants to find someone he is in love with. And, like G, mine is repeating everything with great enthusiasm, just like at the beginning.
Sigh.
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Thanks all for your input.
Ziggee: I apologise, I should have put the title as OW/OM - perhaps you could change it for me Limitless?
MB: Have to say, I love your humour, you have a fab approach to your situation.
Excellent insight, very much appreciated, it's helping me grow and having a much better understanding. I think for the last few years I've been walking around with my head in the clouds. Maybe I wasn't really to open up to this, face up reality - but I am now and I'm beginning to feel like a different person :)
You may get a lot more questions from me, I apologise now :)
I realise that my ex has a lot of relationship/commitment issues, actually quite a few issues on reflection. I would however like to share this, I not sure yet how to trust my intuition, and the difference between wishful thinking and intuition. Anyway......
I knew when my ex meet someone else, something shifted inside and I picked up on his tone when he text a couple of times during Christmas and New Year and I wasn't at all surprised when he told me he meet her on the plane going out to Australia (OK that may be a lie). I also sensed his attitude towards had changed, the tone of his text had changed etc. This happened virtually over night.
This is where I'm not sure if this is my intuition or wishful thinking........ he told me before Christmas he was going to move back into the house at the end of January and by the way he was talking he'd thought it through. Then up pops Miss Welsh and everything changes. Now if I put my sensible head on and try and listen to myself (I am treading with extreme caution here as this maybe wishful thinking), she may have dragged him back to reply, helped him to take the veil off, lift the fog and made him feel happy again. Maybe a diversion to whats really wrong. Does this make sense?
I may of course be totally barking up the wrong tree.....
SK xxxx
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SK, I'm not sure -- it's one thing to look for all the similarities in all the stories, but we also have to be careful not to try to make the reality fit the story. Each situation is individual, and you have identified a lot of the specific things in your own story.
If I've got what you've written correctly; you have someone who has a history of running at a certain point in time; perhaps he also thinks that the "next one" will be the one to make it all better.
That is also partly the way an MLCer thinks; that the "right" person will be responsible for making him (or her) happy, that it's just a matter of finding that one. So it could be that kind of thinking, i.e. back in replay, looking for the right one, or it could be his general life pattern, finding a new one every x years.
At this point it is hard to tell. And either way, he seems to be making someone else responsible for his happiness, which as you know generally doesn't work. In any case it can stop him looking at himself, whether it is MLC or a general life pattern.
Whichever it is, it doesn't really change the way you should respond, which is as always taught on this board -- detach; focus on yourself; continue to be kind, set boundaries where appropriate, all that. All of which you have been doing.
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Thank you T&L. Yes he does have a history of running at a certain point. I can see now this really is about him and his issues - fear of abandament, committment etc., and until he gets to a point in his life that he wakes up and realises he can no longer run, he will continue this path, leaving a path of destruction behind. I won't allow his coldness towards me get to me like it did; I'm worth so much more
This is his issues/problems not mine and I will no longer be part of this drama. Today I feel a sense of calm inside and around me - something I haven't felt for a very long time. I am finally understanding detachment; he's hardly living in my head anymore.
Long may it contain :)
SKxxx
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I have a question that's been floating in my head for the last few days:
Is OW/OM a distraction in a lot of cases, rather than face up to what's really going on?
We all know that feeling when someone comes along, makes you feel good inside and everything in the world is good. The bad feelings you may have had before seem to disappear.
Am I making sense?
SKxxx
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Special K Well Yeah, that's the whole point. MLCers are soooo depressed they feel numb inside. They push everyone away, withdraw into their sad selves and RUN to distractions that make them FEEL GOOD. Only after a while not only do these things cause them to not feel good, THEY MAKE THEM FEEL WORSE! That takes time ::) That is why we call the OM/OW a band aid. They are just covering up a wound. A temporary shield, if you will, that keeps the wound covered up while the MLCer looks for happiness or worth or something they are missing. Right? Remember? LOL! Have a good one ;D
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OW is a way to AVOID..... an ESCAPE... and someone who will ACCEPT the MLCer in all of his/her ugliness. The OW is a MIRROR of the selfish state of mind the MLC causes, therefore, the MLCer and OW use each other.... it's as if they are in the same room, but each of them talking about themselves.... ya know that old joke "But enough about me.... let's talk about what YOU think of me!!"?
The MLCer often feels "lonely", like no one is listening to him/her.... like no one UNDERSTANDS, or takes them seriously... (I felt this way during my transition..) but instead of turning towards their spouse for support, they do not ALLOW the spouse to support them. They look for someone new to fill that void. I know that I tried to support my husband prior to BD... I knew we were in trouble... but it was "too late"... he would not let me in and that's why counseling is not an option.
OW is appreciative of him in the beginning.... she is infatuated and thinks everything he does is wonderful!! Later on is when they start getting on each other's nerves, because they aren't well suited, and the MLCer is a real a**hole to live with... argumentative, controlling, smug, selfish, and critical. JUST LIKE THE LBS, OW tries to stay out of the line of fire, but she is so selfish HERSELF, she stumbles along and becomes CONTROLLING and a total b!tc#. At this point, a normal person would leave... but both of them have INVESTED a lot of time and energy into the "relationship", so they try and MAKE IT WORK.
My husband told me he needed me to "let him go so he could try and MAKE IT WORK with OW".... this is when he moved in with her. Recently, he told me that their "r" got really bad "right before they moved in together". BUT, he signed a year lease and did it anyway. I suspect he thought moving in with her would shut her up about me and her insecurities. It didn't, because his heart wasn't in it.
I'm just now seeing WITH MY OWN EYES (and ears) that OW really means NOTHING to him... just like we've been told, but HE thinks she DOES mean something.. not much, but he feels guilty about hurting her.... can't stand that she is so devastated and can't live without him because she "loves him SOOOOO much". He has been putting up with it for a long time, unable to make the break. Soon, it won't matter... he will have tried his best and failed with her and will walk away with NO feelings. I know my husband, and even HE has said "When I'm done with someone, I'm completely DONE... heartless...". OW's day is coming and she won't know what hit her.
Everyone will tell you not to give OW any power.... not to bother being upset about her. That is good advice, but the whole situation is so unbelievable and disturbing, it's hard to not give it some weight....after all, personal or not, your husband is with someone else and that hurts. That's why I'm telling you a bit of my story.... because it has changed phenomenally from BD infatuation. My husband rolls his eyes when I remind him of things he said about her in the beginning... he cannot believe it!! He told me last weekend that when they are together now, all he can see are her flaws.... OW's days are numbered, and the LBS does not have to "do" anything. However, if the LBS is pleasant to be around... not angry or fearful... not rageful or resentful.... then the MLCer rewrites history once again and remembers how much NICER it was to be in YOUR presence compared to OW. Everything comes full circle.
There is a lot of caution about "not becoming OW to OW" on the forum, but I believe that the MLCer must find his attraction to the LBS again in a very basic way just to come home... you ARE OW to OW, because now SHE is the one begging and pleading... pulling out all the stops to insure he doesn't abandon her... and you are the one he is thinking of all the time. Since he really isn't capable of being in a mature relationship right now, expecting him to relate to you in anything more than that is futile. Just my opinion.
So, yes... OW is an escape and distraction. She keeps him VERY BUSY "doing things", also I imagine there are a LOT of "reltionship talks", LOl!!!! There is a lot of drama and fighting over you.... the MLCer sees the OW as desperate... he sees her as FAKE... she will twist herself into a pretzel to try and please him, even going so far as to dress like or dye her hair like you.... but don't worry that she is keeping him from his journey.... he can only handle so much... facing himself and the issues he has buried for his lifetime has to come in bits and pieces or he would have a BREAKDOWN.
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LG and Special K I bought a lot of books right after BD. One of them was called You, Him and the Other Woman. This was before I heard about MLC. It talks at one point about how after the unfaithful spouse comes home and tries to rebuild the betrayed spouse(us) has to keep vigilant about his NOT contacting ow. It goes on and on about trust. They violated that trust and it needs to be rebuilt slowly. It talks about sneaking and looking at his phone to make sure he isn't sneaking and contacting her. It talks of checking up on him that he isn't sneaking to meet up with her for made up reasons. I thought to myself 'that's what it's like for OW NOW!!!' LOL! I can tell from my Hs behavior that he is confused and has feelings for me. I started to imagine the HELL OW must be in right now trying to figure out his cellphone and his texts to me and his ambulette always at my hospital!!! ??? And no Divorce talk and Ds not allowed around her and his brothers and sisters ignoring him....
Once I saw a tv show with Tom Selleck. He was with a woman and they had just 'done it' . he was getting dressed and she asked "Married?" He said "Divorced." She said "Are you 'over' your wife yet?" He said " Nope."
I soooo enjoyed that scene ;D Chin up!!!
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Wow! Thanks ever so for your insight, you've made me feel so much better.
Thank you.
Hugs SKxxx
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Special K anytime. Everytime I get down my sister whose H came back or some other person on here just reminds me "It's ALL SCRIPT." Stand clear. rinse well. repeat......Lather oh yeah I forgot lather ??? :o :o :o :o LOL!
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I just want to chime in with something.... I completely disagree with the snooping and keeping tabs on your spouse after they "come home". Who would want to live without that trust? These are GROWN people!! If they want to cheat, they will find a way and there is NOTHING you can do about it except give them an excuse for doing it!!
For the record, it's common for MLC cheaters to "learn their lesson" as far as the infidelity goes. My husband has even said that he "won't make the same mistake twice", meaning, once it is finally DONE with OW, he will run like hell from any fantasy he might have of a Schmoopie on the side.... he has told me it is NOT WORTH IT.
I have NO doubts that once it really IS over for him and OW, he will never look back with anything but regret. The entire affair has been a nightmare for him, except for about the first three months!! That's not much fun, now is it? He even tried moving in with OW to see if that would relieve the pressure from her, but it didn't... it got so bad he MOVED OUT!! How do you think THAT makes her feel? He claims "she knows it's over" about a hundred times.. meaning, they can both see the handwriting on the wall... she knows he's not into it any more.... that's what he said.... BUT, OW don't get the message unless there is a frying pan to the head along with it!! Remember, OW are most likely playing out their own abandonment script with our husbands.... THe more he abandons her, the more she tries to stop it. WE have learned to let go and let God, and to stop trying to control anyone but ourselves... OW is controlling to the nth degree and that's why she texts and calls CONSTANTLY when he is seeing the kids, or doing things around HIS HOUSE!!
Do not think for ONE MINUTE that OW has something on YOU.... now, HE may attribute his addiction to "something she has that you can't give me" but in time, that will morph into "I was out of my mind.... she has no redeeming qualities." Even though my husband is still attached to OW by a thread, he has told me "she might have a pretty face, but she is UGLY inside!!" and then the backhanded compliment "Don't you get it? I love you for WHO YOU ARE INSIDE!!". Maybe if my Cortisol levels weren't sky high from all of the MLC stress I could lose 30 pounds and be loveable on the outside, too, LOL!!!
Develop your personality and character to the place you'd like to be, and that means dropping anger and resentment, regardless of what he's done. I don't mean "stuff" your feelings down... FEEL them... but move through all of that stuff. it will only hold you back.
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Oh and I never meant to recommend snooping after reconciliation. My old h would NEVER have cheated and I suspect the new improved butterfly, when it's ready to emerge, will not stray either. Snooping is not good. ;) Faith :)
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I just want to chime in with something.... I completely disagree with the snooping and keeping tabs on your spouse after they "come home". Who would want to live without that trust? These are GROWN people!! If they want to cheat, they will find a way and there is NOTHING you can do about it except give them an excuse for doing it!!
There's another perspective about snooping to consider.
In my situation, my wife moved out about a year and a half ago and for the first four months or so I had little to no contact with her. I have no idea if OM came to see her, or if she went to see him, during that time. And even though contact between us is more frequent now, I don't know how much contact she has with OM (my opinion is that it's very little, if any). Right now, the guilt over anything that she has done after she moved out—lies she's told, or things she's done—are things she has to deal with.
Now, say that I discover some evidence about what she's been doing, either accidentally—a plane ticket stub in her car, a love note sandwiched in a book that I she loans me—or via snooping. All that's happened is that more pain and guilt has been created: in addition to the guilt over her actions, there's the pain I feel at discovering them; if she's aware of the discovery, her guilt is only increased.
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Must have admit I did quite a bit of snooping, looking for answers. You want to know, but you don't and all you do is ending up hurting yourself even more.
Thank you for all of you who have posted on here, believe me it has helped. But maybe Miss Welsh is the one, they have only been together since beginning of December, they meet going out to Perth (well that's what he told me when I asked him if he meet someone special - I ask where they meet, he replied irrelavant, then said on the way out. I ask if it was serious, he said yes).
She is somene who is new, fresh and probably exciting. Someone who has not been caught up in his drama over the last 3 years, (the grief his ex (his S's Mum) caused him), she would not have been involved in any of this or saw the effect his ex had on him. She doesn't remind him of his past.
Does any of this make sense? I'm know what I'm trying to say, but I can't find the words.
SKxxx
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Hi Lg i agree with not stooping ...........but i also believe that in order for trust to be built...then there should be full transparency.......yes i agree if we need to snoop and they have been in contact then their not ready....but for me to trust again and or should i say start to trust i want to know what im trusting if that makes sense...i don’t want to spend my life playing detective GOD i did enough of that....but i want to know that im trusting him to tell me .......I don’t want him to walk back in without boundaries .....if he wants to come back home then he will have to adhere to these boundaries for me to be able to trust again.......I know these men/woman are in MLC but it does not give them a license to not know right from wrong....at the minute/moment im giving him the benefit of the doubt because lets be honest we don’t really know what these men/woman know and remember we only have their word for it........for all we know they could just be saying all this to get a free pass back home..........it could be that they have experienced the other side of the fence and realized we aren’t that bad after all....and the grass is not greener....im not saying that i don’t believe MLC exists because i do what im saying is do they conveniently forget things to protect us and themselves xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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I just want to confirm that everything what LG described earlier about OW is exactly what I see;Exactly the same. H and OW are using each other. My H may have an identity crisis but OW for sure has abandonment issues and is using emotional blackmail. H threatens to leave OW if she is preventing him to live his life as he wants. That's how he keeps her in place. He does not care about her, he can only care about himself.
But he can not make decisions for himself yet. He would like for OW to take the decision and leave, but she is so desperate that she undergoes the way he threats her. And the drama continues.
Also in my case H tells me it only went well the first 3 months they lived together. H left at BD to live with OW. But even in those 3 months ( he returned after 3 months, to leave again ;)) H was around all the time, calling me from the restaurant, so I can not imagine that she does not feel that things are not going as she wants. My guess is that the 9 weeks before BD where they hided their R was nice.
E
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Really interesting reading about OW. My husband moved in with his 2 weeks ago today, BD was in August and affair was E at that point and I believe became PA in early October when he transferred affections to her.
She is only 24 attractive, he is 43, she is ambitious and is a graduate employee in same area of expertise as him. So apart from the obvious infatuation, she must be giving him lots of respect and validation - which is a big issue for him. I know from snooping, (which i am proud to say I have managed to avoid for over a week now!), that she really organized the whole moving into the new apartment, my H was a mess over xmas.
He really is doing the whole escaping pretending he is younger routine, their communication is almost adolescent..... he is a drinker and they developed their relationship through social drinking after work. I noticed he was hung over and down when he came to see kids on Saturday, but what I want to ask is she considered an affair down because of her youth?
Part of me feels that she really might be perfect for him....... why else would he have moved in with her ? But then again I really want to believe its MLC.....its early days I even feel weird using dots as thats what their texts look like......ha!
.....ha! is an example of the adolescent texting I was talking about. Wow my H really is in a pathetic sad state.......xxx
Thanks for reading.... hope I didnt take over a thread by asking my own questions but I dont have too many answers yet!
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I know this may sound like I'm clutching at straws, but how many of have experience your MLCer's having more than one OW/OM (not at the sametime)?
Yes. H is currently with at least OW #3 though she doesn't know it and two of his OW, including this one, were women I loved and trusted as long-time friends and the mothers of D's good friends. I can't explain the pain of that.
In addition, H has been into emailing sex talk to people, cybersex, phone sex and pornography. Lots of betrayal here...
Phoenix
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Fixing,
I saw a lot of depression and my H never tried to hide this from me. In the early days H also showed me how fun his life was (at BD H was 45 and OW19). I know OW very well and she is a nice girl but has a lot of issues and the biggest one is abandonment. I consider OW in my sitch as an affairdown, not because of her looks or degree, but because of her emotional state of mind.
i also snooped in the beginning, but have stopped this(I still could because I have access to my H's email account) because in the end is only hurts You and does not change a thing
It is so true what you can read in the articles: you have to do things for you first and not because we want our H back. And you have to chose joy and forgiveness and leave the resentment behind.
on top of that OW is doing some work for us as she puts a lot of pressure on H. if you can show a side of pleasant peace and quiet... You will see...The whole dynamics is working in our favour but it takes time, a lot of time and patience.
i sometimes think my H is safe where he is now, he can not go no where, bad things already happened so what can be worse... it can only get better
And maybe there is some truth in the reasons they give you why they leave, but most of them are nonense. The reasons I get now are completely different from the ones at BD. Take what you use to get you to a better place and do not focus on the others
E
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And maybe there is some truth in the reasons they give you why they leave, but most of them are nonsense. The reasons I get now are completely different from the ones at BD. Take what you use to get you to a better place and do not focus on the others
E
This is very good advice, the reasons don't matter now, as they will change "daily" and even when reconciled, they still will not know why they felt the NEED to do this. Some things there just are no answers to and this, I fear, may be one of those questions.
Most importantly, please listen to Eternity. Do what you have to, take whatever YOU NEED, to get YOURSELF to a better place, focus on yourself. Then when you are there, THAT IS THE TIME to look at what your spouse is doing or not doing. Then is the time to decide what or how you want to react/behave.
Your situation will look much different when YOU are stronger and healthier. Give yourself some time to heal.
hugs Stayed
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This is turning into a very interesting post, and fab insights. Thanks all for your contribution.
I can't make any comment about OW, I don't know her and it would be very unfair of me. Does the comment I made earlier make any sense with regards to OW:
She is somene who is new, fresh and probably exciting. Someone who has not been caught up in his drama over the last 3 years, (the grief his ex (his S's Mum) caused him), she would not have been involved in any of this or saw the effect his ex had on him. She doesn't remind him of his past.
Before my ex left for Perth to spend Christmas with his brother and his family, I asked him had he considered emigrating out there. He said no, it's not as good as you think. I asked him again via email on 27 January, he replied 'yes I am thinking about it, but no plans yet'. Within a matter of weeks his mind changed, she obviously has a great influence on him that he's prepared to give up his life in this country.
SKxxx
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She is someone who is new, fresh and probably exciting. Someone who has not been caught up in his drama over the last 3 years, (the grief his ex (his S's Mum) caused him), she would not have been involved in any of this or saw the effect his ex had on him. She doesn't remind him of his past.
The newnest truly has an impact. It is exciting, think about it honey, remember when you first fell in love. Your h seems to be addicted to that "feeling". He obviously loves being in "love" but hates the pain when it stops. Your h has not figured out the difference between "true love" and "infatuation/twitterpation". Look it up SpecialK... it is quite fascinating.
It appears your h has had several OP's. Tell me, how long did each relationship last? Research will often provide some answers. Now, why they are the way they are... good golly, that is anybodies guess. :o They just are!
I think when a lot of time is spent trying to find out answers to why your spouse is doing what they are, I believe is a "distraction" technique we use to avoid "facing" our own demons. We have been given a gift of time, as OP tells each and every one of us, as we join this forum. He is absolutely correct. It is a precious gift, which we are squandering when we WASTE precious moments trying to figure out what is going on in an MLCer's mind.
Quite honestly, whatever an MLCer is thinking, is like the weather here in Luxembourg, wait 5 minutes and it will CHANGE!!!!! They are very, very confused people SpecialK. Use this gift of time for yourself dear... and let your husband "twist in the wind"! Once you are healthy, healed and ready to move forward, you can bring him in to dry, until then, leave him to it!
hugs Stayed
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Hi Stayed
Thank you for your input, I will certainly be looking up difference between "true love" and "infatuation/twitterpation". I remember that feeling; warm, fuzzy, exciting. Then real life sets in
Yep he does, I think I was about the longest. Something in his head clicks around the 4 yr mark.
I think when a lot of time is spent trying to find out answers to why your spouse is doing what they are, I believe is a "distraction" technique we use to avoid "facing" our own demons. We have been given a gift of time, as OP tells each and every one of us, as we join this forum. He is absolutely correct. It is a precious gift, which we are squandering when we WASTE precious moments trying to figure out what is going on in an MLCer's mind.
This is so true of me. I have wasted so much time on this, and you are very correct when you say about facing up to our our demons.
I went back to see my Councellor today, very powerful. I can see that I haven't let go of a lot of things, things that should have been put in a box years ago, which I have bought into my present. Hence tarot.
One thng he did say to me was that I was still looking at ex through rose coloured glasses, also true. That maybe when I saw him last week, looking tired and withdrawn that was my interpretation.
My goal is to work on me now, to become whole again, to trust my initution. I've been stuck for way too long, living in the past and yes if I'm honest I have put my life on hold albeit at a subconcious level. No I haven't detached or let go, not properly.
It was also very clear that I am not ready for a relationship, as RCR or HB pointed out, this will only stop my journey. I did meet someone through a dating agency, haven't meet but he has been calling me. He is soooo boring, spends most of the time talking about himself.
So 2012 is going to be about me, truly letting go of the past and that includes tarot, and discovering the real me.
RCR: Edited to fix quote bracket.
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Good for you SpecialK! Please do not be hard on yourself, this is something that is not easy to deal with it. Everything about this goes against everything we believe in. It is about betrayal, deception, depression, childhood issues, everything that is most precious to us. This puts everybody on their knees, initially.
WE can and will survive this. WE will learn and grow. We will not only survive but we will thrive. Those that do the work, reap the rewards. It's all up to us. You strike me as a winner SpecialK, this won't break you.
hugs Stayed
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And maybe there is some truth in the reasons they give you why they leave, but most of them are nonsense. The reasons I get now are completely different from the ones at BD. Take what you use to get you to a better place and do not focus on the others
E
This is very good advice, the reasons don't matter now, as they will change "daily" and even when reconciled, they still will not know why they felt the NEED to do this. Some things there just are no answers to and this, I fear, may be one of those questions.
There was never a truer statement. The reasons change daily and it is true during reconnection there is confusion and they have no idea why they felt they needed to do this. It stinks, I wanted to know that answer too, but I never will. What I know is that they were so confused and in constant motion in the brains that they just needed to run far from whatever once matter the most to them. To this day I will get frustrated when H said it was for this reason or that reason and then hours later it could be something else. In the end it doesn't matter, they did what they did and that's when we have the choice that's when we are in the driver's seat that's when we get the choose to do what we want with our lives. I know now that I want to learn not to be the vicitm in this journey, but to be in charge of my path.
We cannot control anyone elses thoughts or feelings, just our own. A hard lesson to learn, but so true.
Get healthy and focus on yourself is the best advice.
Sassy
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This has been one of the hardest things I've had to face (apart from losing my Dad).
'You strike me as a winner SpecialK, this won't break you'
Stayed this made me cry (in a good way ;) ), thank you. I'm determined to be a winner in this, and I have a feeling (a small feeling) that the outcome will be down to me - lol!
But first I have a lot of work to do on me, my journey of self discovery is just beginning.
Thank you
Hugs SKxxx
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Ahhhhhhhhh Sassy... well said... I'll drink to that...
Get healthy and focus on yourself is the best advice.
SpecialK... it has ALWAYS been down to us. Always!!! It's a frightening journey, not for the feint of heart but SO WORTH doing, in the end.
We are all here for you Special... :(
Hugs Stayed
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Stayed and Sassy and Special K, I love this discussion. It really takes us to the heart of the matter. I like to analyze things ::)
I really believe that these depression chemicals or lack of serotonin and dopamine in the receptor sites that cause depression create a BLACK HOLE inside of the mlcer. They start self talking themselves into " No one gives a s**t about me. Poor me" All of a sudden they crash into the rush of the infatuation chemicals flooding their receptors bc of a Tall Yoda Bigfoot at the convenience store. :o :o :o :o
The logical thing to do next is hide at her apt for 6 weeks and drink and cry and don't call ANYONE! When they retrieve certain pieces of old furniture, empty their 401ks and buy a new car / lemon you just KNOW what is what and what is not ::) ::) ::)
Thanks to people like all of you , I know. Otherwise I'd be up in the operating room of this stupid hospital hitting on neurosurgeons ??? :o :o :o :o :
Point of all this ramble is 'it is so much easier to go on our own journey when we have this roadmap. So much easier." Hey who's got the popcorn.... ::) ??? :P
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Mamma Bear, our spouses CRISIS isn't about Bigfoot or Bowser, it's all about them. Our spouses have been derailed. Those natural chemical reactions in their head and whereever... plum dun sucked 'm in sweetie... and now, you gots to get your sh*t together, get Momma Bear's house in order, move on with your life.
If the poor lad finds his way back... FANTASTIC! If not, you will have done the work and will be able to take back your life and rebuild a new and even better life for yourself and your girls. With all the estrogen on this forum sweetie, you can't help but succeed.
Watch out world, the LBS society is about to be released hehehe!
hugs Stayed
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Stayed, Thanks. I get it. I am still the boss of my dept at work. I am never sitting home, usually out living. The Ds and I are always at sporting events, theatres, museums, family outings etc church activities, total life aspects handled with hardly any H sightings but a couple of times a month. ::) I only make fun of the ow to help me remember the whole "symptom" thing. You know the hardest part of the mlc is the ow affair. Right? So at 12 mos post abandonment I'm cool. I'm not missing out on anything! Really. ;) I know ow is just a symptom of his lonely state and hers. She's just a person but I do need to laugh about the ridiculous activity I am witnessing from the man who said continously "It took me 35 years to find you I am never going to let you go" ya know ???
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Mamma Bear... perhaps I shouldn't mention this, BUT I don't think I have ever seen a single post by you, that didn't have OW mentioned in it. It comes across a bit OBSESSIVE dear. I know you are a bright,successful person. It's rather surprising that you can't seem to see that it can be "unhealthy" to obsess like that.
I know you don't just blame the other woman, that you do hold your h somewhat responsible, but in fact, he is 100% responsible, in regards to you and your daughters. Without a doubt, in MLC's with infidelity involved, there is lots of blame to go around and the OP has his/her fair share to carry, but you really seem to burden the OW, with way more then her share. In my opinion, you do not hold your h as responsible for this situation as you do the OW.
I must say, I have seldom seen another woman place a gun to a man's head and demand he have an affair with her. Perhaps I should mind my own business but I can't help but think, you are giving away a lot of power to your husbands other woman. I am sure you are going to deny that, and I am sorry if it annoys you, but I could not let it go by any longer. I honestly felt in time, you would stop it, but instead it seems to be getting worse.
Don't waste your gift of time, Mamma Bear.
hugs Stayed
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This post has been deleted for inappropriate content.
Remember The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement. (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1146.0) Love each other, Love your Spouses and Love yourselves. The Unconditionals apply to everyone.
RCR
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LettingGo, why are you being like this? Is this making you feel better?
Yes, there is a pattern. The pattern has always been help yourself, become strong, healthy, happy, recovered. Put yourself into a position where your choices can be productive and beneficial to everybody.
hugs Stayed
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Hey come let's not turn this into a fight of some kind, this is an interesting thread and the whole point of this site is to share views, some which we may not agree or like, but that's not what it's about. We're all here to help and support one another. It's a safe place where we can vent, discuss, get things out there. A place where others really understand what's going on, whereas our friends and family don't.
Stayed, what you wrote was an observation one that I'm sure Mama won't be offenend by, which I sure will help her.
SK xxx
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Thank you SpecialK for understanding. I feel very badly that this has occurred on your thread. It is indeed a fantastic topic and one that dearly needs all the discussion it can get. Open, to all views and opinions.
As you say, these are topics we cannot discuss with family and friends outside this forum. Thank you for making me feel safe and free to respond in my usual open, honest manner.
Hugs Stayed
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I stand by what I said. And don't be so certain others aren't offended by Stayed's passive aggressive fake "concern".
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Stayed, I like for you to respomd in a totally honest way as well. I just feel misunderstood by you. I don't obsess about ow. I have a full life and I am always busy. (relaxing too)
I actually like myself, unlike our mlcers who self loathe as it were ::)
The hardest part of this for me is accepting the two of them naked sleeping together. To help with the hurt and pain, I make fun of her. I have never felt that ANY OF THIS was her fault. No, I totally always believed it was my Hs need to get away from our 'mundane life' that caused this. He's a little kid at heart. Always a little too carefree. But he was loyal and honest and oh so caring of my needs. ;D In an effort to get through these trying times I will journal what is happening to me. My H lives at OWs apt 2 miles away. We see him sporadically and he acts like he is in "love" with me and tells my Ds that he is, while crying in her apt.
Since his band aid has been posting wedding rings and wedding planners on her FB wall and no talk of D has happened, I merrily stroll through his crisis making fun of the ugly band aid he has acquired. My bad! I would still be making fun of the vicodin addiction but he stopped. The drinking I make fun of as well. I feel his pain and I love him. I am just trying to steel myself for the realities of dealing with my Hs temporary abandonment of 'his senses'. I know making fun of people is not nice but I NEED to do it! Stress reliever...
I try not to be obsessive and I just looked back over the last 15 posts of mine and it seems I don't mention her all the time. If I do mention her it's bc my H hardly ever works and sits over there. It is soooo strange. ::) I also always remind myself outloud on here that she is a symptom and she will blow away someday! I KNOW this. I am not missing out on anything. Just plugging along and growing in leaps and bounds as well. Thanks.MB
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Mamma Bear, I honestly understand where you are coming from. I have always been aware that you deal with your suffering/pain with jokes. I am not criticizing you, in the least, we all deal with stress in our special way. If this works for you, then I definitely will let it go and leave you to it. I genuinely like you, enjoy your thread.
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to explain.
hugs Stayed
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If there is any one thing that this entire forum community is superb at, it is explaining/confirming that the ow R is merely a symptom within MLC, and is temporary….no matter how long it lasts, or repeats itself ( like a bad meal :o). Mamma B is a valued member of this LBS community due to both her ability to move forward, joyfully, with her life without her H ( at this time ), AND poke fun at ow. ;D Mamma is trying to help everyone get past the pain with comedy. Many, many LBSs, in various stages, still have trouble getting past the infidelity and embracing its meaninglessness. They are still taking it personally. Mamma’s comedy helps. Who doesn’t enjoy a comedic routine? ??? Some of the best fodder for comedy includes our US Presidents and the ows. Personally, I LOVE to laugh…..and laughing BONDS people who don’t take themselves too seriously. ;D ;D ;D
Mamma B, I vote for MORE ow comedy. Your H is off the vicodin!? FANTASTIC!!! :) :) :) YAY!!! WOOHOO!!!!
((((Hugs))))BeStar
Back to Work….
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Stayed, please don't feel bad. Believeme this discussion is really helping me, helping to understand and come to terms with what's going on in my life right. Before I wasn't listening or taking on board (not in the way I am now), but now I'm ready.
Mamma I fully understand where your at, I too am struggling with him and OW; do they do the same things we did, does he talk to her in the way he talked to me, and yes getting naked together. It's also been going through my head what does she have that I didn't. I don't know what she looks like or what she's like, therefore I cannot make any comment about her. Yes I do feel she's lucky to have him. As long as he's happy and he's found the one, I guess that's all that matters.
I need to come to terms with this, accept that it's over and that he's never coming back. My councelling session has left me feeling very emotionally drained, it's never had that effect on me before. It's made me realise just how much I haven't let go, how much I am still hanging on and not working on me. When he came back after the first BD, I hadn't done any work on me what so ever, I was still blaming myself for everything that went wrong. Around him I felt like I was walking on egg-shells, I would not allow myself to be me. I hope one day I will feel about him the same way as he does about me.
Now I'm ready, ready to work on me for me. I faced a lot of stuff last year with regards to my job and it took a long time for me to recover and bounce back. Now I find my confidence is growing and I'm no longer that person in the work place I was a year ago.
On here I can put down how I'm feeling, no one outside of this site really understands. They try, but like anything in life, unless you've been through it or going through it, how can they? No one tells you to move on and find someone else.
Another question: Do I consider the first BD that happened in October 08 as the length of time we've been apart, or do I take from the second BD, April 2010 (we got back together for almost a year before that second one was dropped). Hope I'm making sense.
SKxxx
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Speciak K How do we count the ways....used to be a nice poem. Now " how do I count the BDs" ??? ??? ??? Who knows the longer ago the better right?
I truly do believe my H is coming back. I am fine if he doesn't but I do function on THAT level. Not really an expectation just a 'happy hopefilled hunch' If I had to function every single day like I was a widow in some strange living torture filled rejection scenario I couldn't function at all. My H is in a trance walking around now with a :( :-\ face. That's mlc, that with all the other symptoms. It's like an encyclopedia, the script. Now I must go outside and run errands. Back later......
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Iwished I had that belief MB - more than anything I want him to come home.
SKxx
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Just remember...having hope and having expectations are two entirely different things. Think about the large things we all hope for but don't act as though we expect them....curing all diseases, ending poverty, and so forth...we hope that happens but we don't expect it to. So, we do what we can and live our own lives.
Its OK to have a general sense of hope. It really is. An expectation though will probably find you not looking after yourself....
Hugs,
Bon
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My take on this is MB dealing whatever way works for her; is GOOD for her.
My exh's exskank has been out of the picture for a year now and I'm still not past it.
Do I have days I obsess about the b!tch?- yep probably a lot more than is healthy
Do I have days I barely give her a thought? Sometimes.but they are few and far between.
The healthiest thing for me to do is BE KIND AND PATIENT WITH MYSELF ABOUT IT. I HATE the round and round track my mind gets on. But EXH will not really answer any of the questions I need answers to. He still gets all defensive and stuff so UNTIL I get the anwers my mind will obsess about the relationship and the C. Is that healthy?? I don't think so- but there just isn't any other option at this point in time
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InThis, Could it be he doesn't know the answers? ??? What questions do you have if you don't mind my asking? ??? Ever since I went to college in the early 80s and lived in a dormitory :o :o :o :o Let's just say we partied hardy back then, I don't really have any questions about ow. He needed a hug (more than a hug) and she helped him out. If/when he ever comes to try and rebuild/reconnect/get over himself I don't know that I'd have a lot of questions. Skank filled answers. ::) Who needs them?
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In this,
I was going to ask what Mamma Bear asked...what kinds of questions do you want answered?
I remember when I first found out about Miss EA and I pummeled H with questions. I didn't like the answers, even if they were ones that should have made me happy (exp: no, she's not attractive).
I know its SO hard to do but try and think of her as just another symptom of the MLC disease. Really, really hard...I know. But she isn't worth your time...try to remind yourself of that.
Hugs,
Bon
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I'll be back soon to tell you what I still want to know.....
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Well what I want to know is;
Whose friggin idea was it to get married BEFORE he was even divorced??
AND
I want the WHOLE story!!!
starting with who started who emailing who right through to what was the reason behind him not marrying her and then what prompted him to turn her into the authorities.
18 years ago when I had my EA I had to tell him the WHOLE story. HE wanted to know. It took me 8 hours.
Now I want the whole story. I just think he'd lie right now; so I have to wait.
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Inthis, But what if doing a 180 and NOT wanting to know made things better for YOU ??? Could you let it go? Could you move forward without that piece of the puzzle ??? At least for now ??? Just playing Devil's Advocate here.. people who want to get married before they are divorced belong in a Las Vegas Comedy Movie NOT REAL LIFE!! ::).
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I used to think I would want to know all the facts if my W ever had a PA, but now after having dealt with this for the past 9 months I'm not so sure I would. I would want her to take responsibility and offer to answer any questions I would have, but I don't think I would ask many for my own protection. I would have to choose to set a time to just let it go and forgive her, and that would mean never bringing it up again. I hope I never have to cross that bridge, but if it's that or her never coming back I would cross it gladly.
Which brings me to a point. My W has already filed and shown no indication that she doesn't plan on following through with it someday other than the fact that she hasn't already. I live every day with this feeling of impending doom that my marriage will be over forever, but there is no apparent OM. If I knew she could have a PA, feel remorseful and then turn back to the family as opposed to running away from the family as fast as she can I have to say I would prefer to deal with an affair at this point rather than deal with starting a new life with someone else. Just my .02.
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Inthis, But what if doing a 180 and NOT wanting to know made things better for YOU Could you let it go? Could you move forward without that piece of the puzzle?
I can't NOT want to know because I DO want to know and have since this nightmare started.
Nope I couldn't let it go
And I can move...I don't think it would be in a forward direction. All I can do is go back and forth. Maybe I'll get sick of it eventually but for now that's where I am.
So if he shows some signs of thinking I'm past all of this?? Like trying to suggest we get married again or something. He's going to have to tell me the WHOLE story. Then I can start to process the rest of this. So that ought to take me another year. Oh joy!!!
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My husband had an OW1 for 18 months since BD that was on October 2006. Previous to BD they had been writing, phoning, texting and seeing each other on hotel rooms. I only found that about the times pre-BD mid last year.
He now living with OW2. They’ve been together since mid 2008 and living together for over 2.5 years.
During OW1 he as a clingy boomerang, he moved to on and off after I moved back to our home town and since OW2 he is a vanisher.
I’ve been on this for a long time so I pretty much just look at it like an outsider or a viewer in the movie theatre watching a film.
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Oh Hi Anne J I was wondeing where you went. :)
InThis Oh thats the accountability HB speaks of. There's no sweeping it under the rug. No way No how. I hear you. Friggin' idiots ::)
I kind of get the impression my h is using ow for the apt. She is just there. So maybe that's the best way to look at it. it's not like our Hs were some clear headed executives making important decisions. They were like drunk drivers swerving all over the road. Initially I imagine bc we drove them to it LOL!! But eventually after TIME they do see that they were the catalyst for their own destructive spiral downward. How much he drank or what stupid sexcapades he pretended to enjoy, I know the real guy and he is not having a good time.
Try and find some solace in knowing we can only control our present and future. Past is for ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) thinky!
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Hi Mamma :) like HB, and some others, had done before, my journey has been taking me away from here. And it has been some good peaceful times. Seeing friends, being with siblings, walking, reading, watching movies. Small nice things.
I think a point comes, in the life on a long term LBS where we go way for a while. When we return we are very different. It is an interesting adventure. :)
Most likely it is our equivalent of the MCLer journey but a time comes when the LBS curves to the right while the MCLer is still turned to the left. And many miles behind.
You are right, past is for thinking. Thinking is another thing that has been keep me away from here. And calmly looking inside. Yes, we can only control the present (sometimes in the middle of the storm this is difficult) and the future. Controlling our future becomes easier has time goes by. We have detached from the situation, and even from ourselves, several times and everything is seen in another way.
All I can say is that I’m looking forward for the rest of my new life. :)
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Hi all,
Really interesting catching up with all the discussion even if the drama got removed!!
I think the humour is really important and I laughed out loud last night at something MB wrote.... it felt great!
.... I even had my husband laughing just days after I found out about the affair as he was researching his "groin strain" on the laptop and obsessing that it may be a "sports hernia". I couldn't resist asking him with mock concern..."Remind me again how you did that groin strain?" .....God I laughed so hard............the fact is comedy is so very close to tragedy!!
Well this certainly is a rollercoaster..... my husband just left, after having a really lovely family evening, he was in a great mood as he just found out he has been given a long awaited promotion. Talk about bittersweet.... well at least perhaps he can consider paying int his 401 again!
I wasnt the first to be told when he found out, and I am sure I know who he told first...!..and yes I thought about it. But I smiled sweetly told him how pleased I am for him and how he deserves it.
He seemed so level headed. His Mother called and he actually answered.... as he was with us and able to temporarily alleviate his catholic guilt.
He was very pleasant as he left, I closed the door and cried.... but just a bit.
Then I thought lets see what all the other Left behinds are up to!
I agree with a lot of you the OW has her side its not all her fault shes just infatuated too in my case she thinks they are perfect for each other and that she is looking after this poor unhappily married man who loves his kids.
Thank goodness he got his promotion before they all found out at work that he's shagging one of the graduates.....(hope thats ok Austin Powers says it even though its quite rude where I come from!!)..... oh and he's walked out on his wife and kids for her too..!?
And yes I'm smiling and its really hard for me to slag her off as she is slim and attractive but when I found out boy did I tear into her her taste in clothes she had this coat on, in her facebook page which I hated and I told him " I saw her in that ****ing ugly coat...rant rant...sniff sniff" ........
So the next day in my manic state, I decide to show my friend, I tell her she looks like a combination of the 2 of us!.........Guess what? ...... facebook page is not accessible...... so I go to Linkedin........and guess whose smiley little bald head comes up as a "mutual friend".........oh yeah how we laughed!
KEEP ON LAUGHING EVERYONE we are going to be, not just fine ......but better,... as a result of this ! no matter how Sh!t it is at times I really believe that. Wow I've been living here too long I've caught that good old american optimism!!
Finding you all is really helping, the advice and wealth of experience is so valuable.
Sleep well.
Fixing xxxx
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This is turning out to be a very interesting topic, thanks for all your input.
I'm struggling today, feel quite low and tearful. I think my councelling session has bought a lot of stuff to the surface, things that I haven't yet faced. My councellor doesn't get MLC, so therefore I won't bring that up. He's trying to get me to see that I was still in a relationship with him, but only in my head. He's getting me to see that he has now moved on, in another relationship and that the fact he's considering emigrating to Australia means that I will have to go through a lot of grief with regards to the house etc. I know however, this Councelling is about me, not him.
It appears your h has had several OP's. Tell me, how long did each relationship last? Research will often provide some answers.
Stayed: I misunderstood your comments. Yes my ex did have another OP - he went back to his ex (his Son's Mum). From what I gather it lasted approx. 6 months, although I believe things started to go wrong before then. He may have of course had others since he's been gone this time, but new OW seems to have an effect on him especially as he's considering giving up his life here to move to Australia.
Init: I really feel for you, have you had councellor to help come to terms with this?
Thanks all, please keep those comments coming in.
SKxxxx
PS As the old saying goes: 'Laughter is the best medicine' ;D
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Special K,
I hear that your C doesn't get MLC; not many do. I'm sure this C has been very helpful; I've been following your story since you came here. However, it might be appropriate to consider a new C at some point.
I say this only because of my own experience; I had a fantastic C for the first 2 years, one who helped me greatly. However, he also didn't accept MLC, he did accept crises in people's lives, but nothing like this which takes so long to resolve.
After 2+ years I realised that it was probably best I stop talking to him; his health also came into it and he wasn't able to so much any more, so that naturally brought that to a close. Upon reflection, it was a good thing, as it let me trust my own intuition more and continue working that way rather than relying on his explanations for everything.
I'm not trying to say dump your C, just that at some point it might be something to consider. Counsellors are great, however each has his or her own angle and as we move through our lives it's not always the same one that can best help us.
He's right about the grief, though.
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Laughter is a wonderful "tonic" SpecialK. I am stealing a quote from BonBon, she has a wonderful analogy of how we SHOULD/COULD/MIGHT look at HOPE. We desperately need hope SpecialK, we really do. Hope is what will OFTEN be the only thing that gets us out of bed in the mornings. So here is how our new moderator BonBon describes hope for our situation while our spouses are still deep in MLC land. She says, we can hope for "world peace", end of hunger in the world, equality for all, we don't expect it to happen OVERNIGHT, but it could happen and we can HOPE it will happen.
I think if we focus on our physical, mental, emotional health we are better able to confront and deal with this nightmare called MLC. In fact, most things in life work out better when dealt with a healthy, body and mind.
In my opinion, the first order of business for all of LBS's should be RESTORING ourselves. I know that is easier said then done but once we understand of the enormity of the situation we are dealing with, I think it becomes glaringly obvious that we need to be in OUR BEST PHYSICAL/ MENTAL/ EMOTIONAL state ever. I wish somebody had been able to explain that to me. The first 3 to 6 months are always going to gruesome. I don't think there is ANY way, those weeks/months of shock and despair can be avoided. After that period though, if we really want to be able to clearly deal with what has befallen us, then we MUST focus on our overall health.
Hugs Specialk... I know you are struggling honey, it is totally normal. Take what you WANT from your counselor. As you go on, you may agree more and more with him... but for now, simply take the BITS AND BITES that make you feel comfortable. Trust me, as you grow stronger, you will make your own wise choices, with confidence and maybe not absolutely sure, but more sure then you are now.
hugs Stayed
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MMMMMM, Specialk asked Subject be changed from OW to OW/OM... hoping that worked... I am not much of a tec whiz...
hugs Stayed...
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Wow, sometimes I surprise myself.. hehehe... mission accomplished! hehehe...
Stayed
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Wicked - thanks Stayed.
Thank you your comments re Councellor. I think if mentioned MLC or tried to talk about it, he would think I was on another planet or simply clutching at straws. I take on board your comments that I may consider changing in the future. One of things I have to look at is why I push people away; when people get close to me the barriers come down and I develop childlike tantrums etc., this is something I have done in all of my relationships.
BTW I hope Nes doesn't mind me sharing. Her sister is currently training to be a Councellor and they are now touching on the subject of MLC, not a lot, but at least it's beginning to become recognised.
SK xxx
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SpecialK:
Big hugs to you. This is a hard journey for sure. What Stayed posted is so true, yet so hard to accomplish in the beginning. Keep trying, when you get there and you will with the support of everyone here, you will experience a sense of calm. Not calm that everything is okay, but calm that you have choices in this journey, in your life, you get to live.
Counselors often don't get MLC. So, take a different approach and talk to them about someone being seriously depressed and making manic decisions. That seemed to help with my counselor and forced her to read up on MLC. She confirmed this week even after a year of counseling that depressession (didn't say MLC) is a serious disorder and when untreated and escalating it acts as a disease and people are in altered stated. Hmmmm, sounds like MLC to me! :) If you need to, get a different counselor but as Stayed said take bits and pieces from him/her. It is the same for this forum. Everyone's sitch is similar yet very different. Read and take bits and pieces from everyone. It isn't all black and white on this journey, but shades of grey. Trust your instinct.
I have seen on this board where members counselors are telling them what to do. If that is really the case then that's not their purpose. Their purpose is to listen and guide you. If you tell them you want to stand for your marriage their purpose is to help you do so. No doubt your counseling sessions bring up a lot of emotions. I often felt a downward spiral for hours or days afterwards just because they brought out so many emotions. Over time, though, I learned how to deal with my emotions constructively. I learned how to let them move through them, feel them and process them. As OP says your gift in this journey is time. (Trust us you will hate that saying and then come to embrace it! :)) It is true. Counseling doesn't change things overnight, but IMHO it can help an LBS'er immensely.
Hugs,
Sassy
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Sassy is so right. Especially this part:
take bits and pieces from him/her. It is the same for this forum. Everyone's sitch is similar yet very different. Read and take bits and pieces from everyone. It isn't all black and white on this journey, but shades of grey. Trust your instinct.
We are not the holy grail, we are just like you, a hurt LBS. All in different stages, right through to reconciliated but we do not know your situation. Only you know how best to proceed. So take what you want and throw away the rest... or leave for one of those occasions when you need A CHANGE UP!
Hugs Stayed
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Thank you so much and for the good advice (I'm trying not to cry). It is and I've got a banging headache to go with it :( I have had councelling in the past, but it's not had the effect yesterday has had on me. I been at this for almost 2 years, but only really just starting my journey. Time - yes I need to be reminded about, because it's only now I appreciate it.
When I've mentioned anything about my ex looking tired, exhausted, sad etc., my councellor told me that was probably my assumption and looking at him with rose coloured glasses. I understand what he's trying to do and that the focus is on me not him.
Whilst I'm om the subject of letting go, OW etc., there is something else I want to put out there, which is floating around in my head but putting on here will enable me to lay it to rest. I'm sorry if you've read it before and some of you may find it boring:
As some of you know I've struggled with tarot, to the point it has become an addiction (this is something I'm addressing in Councelling). When I found out that my ex had found someone new he was serious about, I turned back to tarot and in the space of two weeks I had seven telephone readings and this is some of things they told me:
Four said that OW would never last and he would try and come back to me. Three of them told me I would be moving. One told me he wouldn't sell. Another told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me. Three of them talked about how muddled he was, that OW was a smoked screen, that he was lost and had a lot of issues he needed to address, but only he could do it, maybe he never would. One of them told me that I was the one he really loved, felt comfortable with but there was a very slim chance he would come back to me. One also told me I would meet someone very quick, he would want to come back but it would too late and I would be handing the keys back.
Now that feels like something has shifted by sharing this. I apologise for those of you who have heard it before, but thank you for taking time to read it.
I would like to say thank so much for all your help, advice, support and guidance. For sharing your views on a subject that brings up a lot of emotion. For being there.
Big hugs everyone
SKxxxx
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SpecialK...you know what's wierd? The Tarot people sound like they "get" MLC more than your counselor does. How strange they described the fog and so forth.
I agree with what Stayed and Sassy advised...do the bits and pieces with your counselor..and here too....everyone has different situations and mindsets so just like you're at a salad bar, take what you want, leave the rest. You're going to be fine.
BTW, INThis...Mamma is right on...you're talking accountability....someday InThis...someday...
Hugs,
Bon
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Lol - very true BonBon :), one in particular (the one who said it was a very slim chance he would come back - isn't that also MLC?) described it accurately, I honestly didn't say anything.
The advice given by Stayed and Sassy is excellent and I'll apply the salad bar theory to it - love it!
SK xxxx
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I thought I would offer a perspective although not quite on topic
My X and I have been doing "communication" sessions to assist in dealing with our three children. One of the exercises the counselor proposed was to say "Good bye", identify to the other party what you got from the marriage and what you didn't and to use the "goodbye" as closure on the past. My X indicated she received "safety & security" from marriage, my response was that I enjoyed her very positive energy and noted the affect that it had when it was removed form our marriage. The ashen look on her face was priceless when the counselor asked her if I had ever removed the "safety & security". Truth darts do sting occasionally.
Mac
P.S. I'm a believer that focusing on the OP's relationships with the MLC'r inhibits the LBS.
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P.S. I'm a believer that focusing on the OP's relationships with the MLC'r inhibits the LBS.
I would love to take some counseling like this Mac. That seems like it could be really helpful.
About your P.S., I am with you 100% about focusing on the OP's relationship with our MLC'r, I found it took over my recovery. I was comparing myself to her, worrying that I was not as attractive to him and desirable... it sucked away my energy, mostly my positive energy and made me feel like our efforts were all in vain. How could I possibly COMPETE with NEW, EXCITING etc.
Heck that was even before we tried to reconcile. I found her presence in our marriage afterward, totally destructive and it was me that had PUT HER THERE.
Nasty, just nasty! Get him/her out of your head... they WIN when you give them residency.
hugs Stayed
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I was comparing myself to her, worrying that I was not as attractive to him and desirable... it sucked away my energy, mostly my positive energy and made me feel like our efforts were all in vain. How could I possibly COMPETE with NEW, EXCITING etc.
That's exactly what I've been doing!
SK xxx
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SK,
Compete with the MLC-monster whose taken over your husband...don't compete with the ridiculous OW...they are just pathetic little souls, not worthy of our time!
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It's a pretty natural, normal reaction SpecialK. We are just mere humans!
:) Welcome to the club of Zero self confidence/self esteem. Good part, we can rebuild! ;D
hugs Stayed
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It is a normal reaction SpecialK. I did it and still occasionally do it. Don't let that person (who by the way was using your H and being used by your H) take up precious space in your brain. They are nobody and frankly are just as lost as the MLC'er. It is not a relationship and it is not fun and games. There is a lot of turmoil in those unions, how could there not be.
Here are a few things that worked for me to STOP thinking about her and my H. A rubberband on my wrist. I snapped it hard everytime I would wander down that path. Visualizing a stop sign. Frankly shaking my head in disgust and shaking the thought out of my head. I found the more I talked about it to other people LBS'ers, counselors the more I focused on it.
She is nothing but a symptom. A symptom of a disease, cold, however you want to look at it. Here imagine her as mucous. Eww that's a nice visual. :)
We have all compared ourselves to the OW. Their union has nothing to do with beauty, sex, and only has to do with attention and the chemical rush that they get. Frankly most of them are affair downs. My H has told me since OW is out of the picture that he, at that time, didn't care who paid attention to him. It could have been anyone, he didn't care.
I know you have probably heard this before, but it is something that took a while for me to really process. Your H is the exact opposite of what you knew. Thus, he attracts the exact opposite. Think about it, they are two needy, lost, pathetic, lonely, depressed, addicted (I could go on) people enjoying each other! I think NOT! Maybe the first few weeks/months but it goes down hill quickly. Think high school relationship gone bad (the thought of being in one of those again sends shivers down my spine!)
Focus on yourself. Find what you love about you. If you don't know, figure it out. Make time for yourself. For example, I had and still do have a low self-esteem and social anxiety disorder. I was extremely codependent on H. I forced myself out of my comfort zone. I go to the gym alone, run alone, hike alone (oh, OK, I do take my horse/dog with me sometimes :)) I have made friends without my H, gone out to dinner, drinks, socialized without my H. I applied for jobs and got jobs that I didn't think I would be qualified for. I took risks and wasn't the shy, I will take the safe path girl. I did a 180 on the things that I always wanted to improve about myself. As I get stronger, I focus less and less on OW.
Your sitch is obviously not the same, but I give you these examples, because the pain of obsessing about this vile, lost, person is not fun and only you can control you and your thoughts (another hard lesson to learn).
I guess what I am trying to say and what took me a long time to learn was focus less on OW and MLC'er and more on you. A strong you gets to drive and gets to make choices. Use this time to build up you.
Hugs,
Sassy
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Hi Specialk,
I have a question regarding your councilor. You say that this person doesn't understand MLC, and it sounds like they want you to move on, and give up your stand.
Is this what you want? I remember I went to counseling 9 years ago with someone who pretty much insisted that I should dump my husband and move on. While I appreciated her sympathy for my marital problems, eventually I realized this was not what I wanted to do and I stopped seeing her. She was pushing very hard.
If you feel that you want to stand I think it would be helpful to find someone who supports your position. I know that is hard to find, that is why we are all here, to support each other. Good luck.
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Sorry for the hijack SpecialK but I have a question for Leftalone. You said you went to counseling 9 years ago. Is that when your h's MLC started?
My h and I went to a marriage counselor about 7 years before he finally went over to the dark side, completely. He was so moody, confrontational, verbally aggressive(especially with bosses etc). We went to counseling and he made a complete idiot out of me. Sat there all calm and looked at the counselor like (she's been so EMOTIONAL LATELY.. rolling his eyes etc.) the counselor totally bought it. Absolutely no empathy for my obvious distress, as I knew something was happening to my husband. It was horrible.
We just plain stopped going.
Sorry SpecialK, trust us honey, you are not doing anything WE didn't do. Wasn't the right thing when we did it either but trying to stop OBSESSING about the OP was really hard.
hugs Stayed
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9 years ago my husband was verbally abusive and we separated for about 10 months. I just couldn't handle it any more. He moved into an apartment a few blocks away, and immediately he regretted, and eventually I let him move back in with us.
I went to counseling for myself, (we attempted couples, but that didn't work out), but my counselor felt very strongly I should dump him. I didn't but I still remember her warning me, "As soon as you hit menopause he will leave you." She was right on that one, I have no idea how she knew.
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My h and I went to a marriage counselor about 7 years before he finally went over to the dark side, completely. He was so moody, confrontational, verbally aggressive(especially with bosses etc). We went to counseling and he made a complete idiot out of me. Sat there all calm and looked at the counselor like (she's been so EMOTIONAL LATELY.. rolling his eyes etc.) the counselor totally bought it. Absolutely no empathy for my obvious distress, as I knew something was happening to my husband. It was horrible.
My H also did this about 7 years prior to going off the rails completely. He seemed to settle down a lot in between times, only to build up again into the lovely crescendo of two years ago.
Do you think these MLCers were always prone to depression, or do you think it was an earlier, milder bout of crisis? or both?
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I went to counseling for myself, (we attempted couples, but that didn't work out), but my counselor felt very strongly I should dump him. I didn't but I still remember her warning me, "As soon as you hit menopause he will leave you." She was right on that one, I have no idea how she knew.
Your counsellor had probably seen this pattern and put two and two together. We'd call it MLC, she might call it something else??
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In retrospect I can say my husbands MLC started about two years ago,although I didn't recognize it, bomb drop and abandonment was three months ago. So this episode was long before. However it was kind of eery when I got my first hot flash the day of bomb drop, just as the counselor had predicted.
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Ok, so it wasn't the beginning of MLC then. I thought, it might have been like my h. We had just completed 2 years in Blacksburg, Virginia, while my h did a couple of masters degrees. He loved being a student. Gradually over the next 3 or 4 years, he became a person I hardly recognized.
This was partly due to my "change" as well. I thought I was handling it so well, but according to the kids after the fact, I was one weird lady hehe. I can only assume that with me going through the change and my h beginning his crisis, we were a recipe for disaster.
I think it was the onset of his crisis Kikki. Yes, I believe our spouses were prone to depression. I suspect, they were very afraid of it too... not sure why, just some comments my h made, many years before this happened. He had an inner ear infection. He couldn't stop throwing up, everything was spinning and spinning. It took several doses of Gravol suppositories and immobilizing his head and body movement, to stop the vomiting. He was hospitalized for 3 days.
He told me afterwards, he thought he was having a NERVOUS breakdown. I could tell just by the way he said it, it was like his greatest fear. Never ever divulged why he thought that or why he was afraid of it.
I tend to think they know. Probably way out of line on this one, just a funny feeling I have about it.
hugs and thanks for answering my questions... Stayed
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That's totally freaky Leftalone! eweeeeeeeee... hugs Stayed
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I think it was the onset of his crisis Kikki. Yes, I believe our spouses were prone to depression. I suspect, they were very afraid of it too... not sure why, just some comments my h made, many years before this happened. He had an inner ear infection. He couldn't stop throwing up, everything was spinning and spinning. It took several doses of Gravol suppositories and immobilizing his head and body movement, to stop the vomiting. He was hospitalized for 3 days.
He told me afterwards, he thought he was having a NERVOUS breakdown. I could tell just by the way he said it, it was like his greatest fear. Never ever divulged why he thought that or why he was afraid of it.
I tend to think they know. Probably way out of line on this one, just a funny feeling I have about it.
Now that's interesting - that is also my thinking.
My H also was absolutely petrified of being mentally unwell. All throughout that first year post BD, he would monster at me 'there's nothing wrong with me - I'm not going to take medication!!!!!'
Believe me - no one was suggesting medication in the first few months, but they certainly did in latter months. He is PETRIFIED about medication too for some reason?
I wonder if there are things that they have seen/experienced or know about in their FOO that they are not letting on about - and think that they might be tipping into whatever crazy relative they may have observed??
I think they know as well - but they think denying the whole thing is going to continue to work for them. Great!!!
Stayed - do you mind me asking - does your H have periods now where he feels low? Does he acknowledge it and is he able to deal with it differently now?
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KiKi, You know that old joke about guys not wanting to stop and ask directions.... ???
A lot of men think medication is a sign of weakness. They want to be in control and not need anything like that for them. :o :o :o :o Also many ads for antidepressants etc warn of ED side effects. Last thing an MLCer wants to do is 'appear weak' or in 'need of help' or Heaven forbid Mr.Popkins isn't working. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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LOL - Mr Popkins!!! ;D ;D ;D Now that was beautifully explained Mama - that would be it to a 'T'
Imagine having to try to explain that one to the OW ;D ;D ;D
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Stayed - do you mind me asking - does your H have periods now where he feels low? Does he acknowledge it and is he able to deal with it differently now?
No, not particularly. My h has always been a bit of a "drama queen". You would NEVER guess it, if you met him. NOW, we laugh about it a lot but I have to tell you, before his crisis, he would become very upset if I teased him about it in any way. Since his return, he will come in being all dramatic and then start to laugh, as I give him my look of "oh here comes my drama queen"... and we are both laughing our asses off.
It does seem to be something that I have best to address the instant I see it though. It can build in intensity, if I do not catch it immediately. Almost an "attention" getting behaviour.
hugs Stayed
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Mamma Bear... you kill me! Mr. Popkins! Actually Kikki, I was astounded at how many of the men who were cheating on my other site, that ED. So many of them were on Viagra or the equivalent. As a matter of fact, that is how a couple of the men got caught by their wives, because a few "TABLET" were missing. Apparently, those pills are extremely expensive, so the pills are closely monitored.
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KiKi, You know that old joke about guys not wanting to stop and ask directions.... ???
A lot of men think medication is a sign of weakness. They want to be in control and not need anything like that for them. :o :o :o :o Also many ads for antidepressants etc warn of ED side effects. Last thing an MLCer wants to do is 'appear weak' or in 'need of help' or Heaven forbid Mr.Popkins isn't working. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
While I am perfectly happy to stop for directions.... accept I am actually never lost... ;) Medication seems to be a whole other can of worms. I seem determined to conquer my own mind with my own logic and brain. It was suggested to me early after BD that I might want to consider some mild anxiety pills... I was determined to deal with it through though. Right now I am glad I did... for the most part I do pretty good... sleep well most nights. If I had gotten a prescription for some kind of pill... I would probably still be taking them... never figuring out how to cope properly. Flip side though.. I wonder if things had gotten worse... if I would still be trying to conquer my noddle.
Z.
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LOL Stayed - I would never have guessed that - your H always comes across as the cool, calm and collected Military man. Good in a 'crisis' and all that ;D
That astounds me the cheaters with ED. It's all a little 'He doth protest too much!' They're all trying toooo hard to make themselves feel better - :P :P :P
Ziggee - you're doing well though - I wish I had filmed my H at his anxious replay monstery worst! The man could have done with something - maybe a straight jacket and a trip in a van ???
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LOL Stayed - I would never have guessed that - your H always comes across as the cool, calm and collected Military man. Good in a 'crisis' and all that ;D
Hence, the reason he didn't find it funny. He was very much the proper military man, he would never have admitted he showed any emotion let alone admit he was a "drama Queen", hehehe. Now, he doesn't care. I think he bottled a lot of his insecurities up real tightly, which I think made him much more insecure. Weird eh.
I guess after everything he has been through, being a drama queen is nothing on the grand scale of things. Just a "male" ego thing, that really is of no consequence. The funny thing is, he has become less and less dramatic.
It is not like he was girlish or anything. Kicking his feet etc. His drama was very low key, heavy sighs, unhappy face, tossing his head back and closing his eyes. You know, melancholy type of drama, drove me crazy. If I didn't ask, "is there anything wrong?" he would be annoyed, but when I did, he would say, "oh nothing!" He would make me work to get him to tell me. Silly me, I would play his game. Now, I would still ask him if he was ok, but if he said nothing, I'd say... ok. End of discussion. I guess there is no point in be a drama queen if you don't get the desired reaction. hehehe.
hugs Stayed
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Interesting what you said about your H having an ear infection Stayed. My ex got labyrinthitis or something similar (the consultants never got to the bottom of it), eight years ago just after we moved into the house that I have now bought him out of! He lost all his confidence, became very depressed (for which he took ADs - but I was the only person who knew about them as it's not macho to be depressed) and was off work for five months.
He had another couple of bouts of depression over the next few years - seemingly caused by physical illness. He was still on ADs at the time of BD. Strangely, I had just started the menopause. ::) ::) OW is 60 on Sunday and has already been through all that. He apparently stopped taking the ADs after he moved in with OW as he didn't think he needed them anymore but started them again six months later. Don't know if he is still taking them or not but they don't seem to have worked too well...
C
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Special K...(((HUGS))))...those counselling sessions can be rough and mine also didn't get MLC..I saw herfor 18 months but all I ever talked about was him..perhaps had I focused on some of my own journey I would be a bit further along than I am. To her credit she did try twice and I shut her down...THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME I yelled. Well perhaps not, but the time and money might have been better spent working out some of my own issues.
And then I found this place and the people here who got it..I wasn't crazy...my husband had disappeared.....which is why I wanted to post to you Special K.
It doesn't matter how far they run to...mine is in Brazil, was in Hong Kong before that and I hear they are looking for someone to go to South Africa...well he'll probably take that because truly, unless he goes to the moon that's about as far away as he can get from me.
Yet, I question (when I'm not having my moments that this is not MLC)...why does he keep the contact..it is minimal yes, but rather unnecessary as our daughter is grown, the legal stuff is done, the assets are divided and we have not lived together in 31 months.....I used to think he just wants to be a nice guy, my friend......I do know that running away as far as he has (and others have had similar experiences) is not the solution to his problems. It may actually prolong it..for his "drug" is the challenge of work and if he can bury himself in it..then he doesn't have to look inside does he?
I on the other hand have looked inside way too much....but I was looking inside for him....not for myself.....if I ever start to exert the energy I have spent worrying about him into my own development...watch out.
All I can say, again, I never thought I would feel any joy again..I never thought I'd get off the floor in the "puddle of tears" as stayed as gently put it......I want, I desperately want especially newbies reading this to know...If I could find this place anyone can...I did not believe I could but I know differently now.
Other wise ones tried to impart that knowledge to me but I wasn't ready.....once I faced the beast, once the impossible had occurred I started to realize...it isn't in my control anyway.
I have always loved HB's comment...let them twist in the wind and crack their heads...indeed!
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His drama was very low key, heavy sighs, unhappy face, tossing his head back and closing his eyes. You know, melancholy type of drama, drove me crazy. If I didn't ask, "is there anything wrong?" he would be annoyed, but when I did, he would say, "oh nothing!" He would make me work to get him to tell me. Silly me, I would play his game. Now, I would still ask him if he was ok, but if he said nothing, I'd say... ok. End of discussion. I guess there is no point in be a drama queen if you don't get the desired reaction. hehehe.
Oh the melancholic drama queen! Yes of course - makes sense. :)
Love your new approach 'ok' end of discussion ;D
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I on the other hand have looked inside way too much....but I was looking inside for him....not for myself.....if I ever start to exert the energy I have spent worrying about him into my own development...watch out.
This is an AMAZING statement and so, so, so, so, did I say, SOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE! Everybody, stop focusing on your MLCer. If he /she returns, after you are totally and completely healed (because now that is the only condition in which you should take back your delinquent spouse), then you can give SOME (and I mean, only some) of that attention to him/her.
We are givers. For some reason, every single LBS I have met is a GIVER. We can't STAND to see others hurting, "twisting in the wind" as HB is fond of saying. We hate it so much, we will almost allow ourselves to be DESTROYED before we would / could forsake a person in that place, especially our dearly loved spouses. Our loyalty is unlimited. We seem to epitomize the UNCONDITIONAL love scenario. SO, backing off, "letting them twist in the wind", is one of the hardest things we will ever do.
Still we can do it. I can't stand discontent (no snickering, I really do thrive on harmony ;) ). The strange thing I discovered, my life, my children's life, even my MLCers life, became much more HARMONIOUS, once I let him "twist away" and got on with enjoying my life.
hugs Stayed
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Hi everyone
Apologies for the delay in replying; yesterday I had the headache from hell and went to bed when I got home from work. It still hurts but not as bad as yesterday.
Wow this is turning into a very interesting post, loads of great stuff is coming out, things that we've wanted to talk about. The good thing is we have the opportunity to talk about it without anyone dismissing it, and really listening to us.
With regards to my Ex's new OW I can't comment because I don't know anything about her (except he's serious about her). In my head she is pretty, slim, younger than me, intelligent, loving and giving. I use to had issues about my looks and my body (especially when I was a Weight Watchers Leader). I use to look in the mirror and saw this fat ugly person looking back. I could never understand what my ex saw in me. In my last job I was always pulled up about my confidence, every review, 1:1 it was bought up. Last year when I was going through hell I work, it was mentioned all the time. Consequently I believe this and acted accordingly. When I eventually left my confidence was on the floor and I took it into my current job. It took me months to get to where I am now. I work with a great bunch of guys, and this job has really helped me to build myself up. I'm not that person I was in the work place that I was then. I have decided to put looking for new job on hold for now and build on my skills etc.
My ex is a very intelligent bloke and the things I found really funny, he didn't.
As I mentioned yesterday, my Counsellor has bought a lot of stuff to the surface. Yes I want to move on, by that I mean move on with me and put all the stuff that's been holding me back behind me. I'm doing it for me. No I don't want to give up my stand, but I want to learn to put him in a box so to speak, and work on me, and I'm doing it for me. I haven't told my Counsellor about standing, he wouldn't understand, he would (probably) think I was deluded and wasting my time, and would encourage me otherwise. So those thoughts I will only share here, a place where I feel completely safe and people really understand.
Reading through the posts, something else has come to mind. When I first starting to see my ex he mentioned that at the beginning of year until about April, he always very felt low (depressed) and looking back things between during that time were not brilliant. I can't remember what prompted this, but last year he mentioned that when he was younger he considered suicide to see what it was like and that everyone considers it in their life. Do they? I don't think so. Even at my lowest, that is something I have never ever considered.
He also had a thing about taking medication and would take medication if he felt really bad. He suffers badly with a a hernia (I can't spell the name of it or pronounce it properly, but it's the one that effects the stomach), and piles. These play up badly when he's stressed (btw he doesn't believe in stress lol). His attitude is you just get on with it, and buries himself in work so that he doesn't have to think. His Mum is very much the same attitude - you just get on with it.
Right best get dressed showered, dress and get to work. Catch up later.
Thanks again everyone, loads of love.
SKxxxxx
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He suffers badly with a a hernia (I can't spell the name of it or pronounce it properly, but it's the one that effects the stomach), and piles. These play up badly when he's stressed (btw he doesn't believe in stress lol). His attitude is you just get on with it, and buries himself in work so that he doesn't have to think. His Mum is very much the same attitude - you just get on with it.
Inguinal hernia maybe?
'Just get on with it' = denial! His mother is the same? Usually the way unfortunately. Denial runs in families - it's a poor coping mechanism that doesn't work forever - hence the MLC!!!
Buries himself in work? Workaholism is the most socially accepted of all of the addictions. RCR recommends Terence Real's 'I don't want to talk about it - understanding the secret legacy of male depression'. Explains covert depression. An amazing read to understand our MLCers.
Fantastic to hear that your confidence is on the up - your new job sounds great :)
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It's a hiatus hernia.
I never felt comfortable around his Mum, she's not at all maternal. When her husband died (they were together over 20 years), she didn't cry and she told me she was determined not to cry. I'm someone who get upsets quite easily, so to me that was odd, unhealthy.
SK xxx
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Special K:
Mommy issues. Your MIL has trouble expressing emotions (very similar in my case). Does your husband have the same thing? I think the stoic personality and the sweeping under the rug or glossing over issues personality has a lot to do with MLC. It takes a long time to learn how to behave differently.
I can't imagine not crying when someone I loved died. Where does that hurt an pain go. Stress manifests itself in physical symptoms . . . . eventually.
I am glad you are finding your self-confidence.
Hugs,
Sassy
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In most cases yes he does. He was alway very affectionate towards me - hugging, cuddling, staring at me like I was going to disappear. At the start of our relationship, he cried at few times but couldn't or wouldn't tell me why he was upset. I also remember him breaking down a few days after my Dad's funeral. We were out with my family at dinner and his Son called. After the call he was in tears, and wanted to be alone. He wouldn't tell me what was up. He cried quite a bit when he dropped the first BD.
Other areas, yes he does come across as uncaring and hard. He keeps everything in, hence why, I believe, he suffers with his tummy.
Nor me, I still cry about my Dad even now. She was eventually diagnoised with IBS.
SKxxx
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I'm glad to see you focusing on yourself specialk... it is essential to turn this nightmare into a defining moment for yourself. Something like this, in my opinion, either makes you sit up and get busy living... or lay down and give up.
You don't strike me as a quitter. BE kind to yourself. Take one day at a time. If you have a bad day, know tomorrow will be better.
hugs Stayed...
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Amen Stayed!
Something like this, in my opinion, either makes you sit up and get busy living... or lay down and give up.
You are doing great SpecialK!
Sassy
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It's a hiatus hernia.
I never felt comfortable around his Mum, she's not at all maternal. When her husband died (they were together over 20 years), she didn't cry and she told me she was determined not to cry. I'm someone who get upsets quite easily, so to me that was odd, unhealthy.
Ah - they're painful!!
When my MIL's H died, she also prided herself in not crying. My H also didn't cry. The boys and I did. The boys and I thought it was odd!
Stoic is the word.
My H did say that he cried a lot - four years later, in secret before BD. I told him it was his depression. He turned tail and ran ...............
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Thank you :)
No I'm not a quitter, although I feel that I've taken a very big step back, I also know the only way is up and I will come through this a much stronger and confident person.
I know my ex has a lot of issues, and there is a part of me that tells me that some of them have come to the surface and he's fighting against them, and Miss Welsh has come along at the right time, a diversion, to take him away/his mind off what's really going on. When I first heard that he was seeing someone else, the thought that went through my head was it won't last. I realise of course be totally wrong and he's really happy with her.
I also want to learn to trust my initution, hopefully this is somthing else that will come in time.
SK xxx
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SpecialK, I think you know, the last place an MLCer is at him/herself. I can only assume it must be too scary, or it just does not occur to them.
The best way of dealing with this, is to become as healthy as you possibly can. With health come confidence and clarity. So much easier to see what is real and what isn't. You are doing both your husband and yourself a huge favour by getting yourself under control SpecialK.
I would be very surprised if this new RELATIONSHIP is the real McCoy my dear. Most MLCer's just are not capable of truly loving anybody at the moment. The relationship has been built on some pretty unstable ground. For now honey, try not to "think" about that... lot's of time for those thoughts, once you have yourself healthier and better able to cope.
You are sounding stronger each and everytime you post ... you are doing great. All will be well!
hugs Stayed
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hey sk ;D i have been reading along to this thread with interest. i so hope asking all these questions is helping you. its amazing how we all view ow or om. at bd i was a mess. ow was in my head for about 4 months and i dont know how or what kicked in but i knew the only way i could move on was to detach away from her also. thank god it worked. she is not worth my brain space. you are getting there hun. did you go the gym this week as i know you joined up ;D ;D ;D
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I agree Nesquick, I think for me, it was simply pride, I felt like giving her any space in my head was in a sense giving her power over me. Just the different ways people view things. I also think it was my way of DEMEANING her value. It has always been my experience that the one thing people really hate is NOT BEING NOTICED. To me she was invisible... hehehe! Greatest insult, I could give her.
It worked for me, but we are all different.
Good discussion... hugs Stayed
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I agree Nesquick, I think for me, it was simply pride, I felt like giving her any space in my head was in a sense giving her power over me. Just the different ways people view things. I also think it was my way of DEMEANING her value. It has always been my experience that the one thing people really hate is NOT BEING NOTICED. To me she was invisible... hehehe! Greatest insult, I could give her.
It worked for me, but we are all different.
Good discussion... hugs Stayed
This has been my strategy too...she is NOTHING to me...I barely acknowledge her presence when I am around her. I walk into her house..say hi maybe...mostly interact with H and my kids. It's not bitter...hard to explain...I just don't validate anything about her.....I won't be mean and b****y but I won't be fake and nicey nicey either.
This is going to sound crazy but I don't worry about her at all...never really did. There is NO comparison between her and I....none..and I know this. She is just a side note...a yucky symptom.
Stayed is right..she doesn't deserve any power over the LBS...that's why it's so important to focus on yourself and let her be.
HUGS
BUGS
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I am trying to stop obsessing about her but it comes in waves and as time goes by and I move on in my journey it will become easier and I will get to the point where it won't matter anymore. When I eventually found he'd gone back to his ex it didn't have a great effect on me. Maybe because he didn't tell me until after we'd been back together for 4 months, and it was only because I asked why they didn't get back together. With new ow he told me shortly after he started seeing her - but again it was because I asked if he'd meet someone special, although I knew. He maintained he was going to tell me when he next saw me. That's what makes me believe that he's finally found 'the one'.
Right now thoughts keep going round in my head the things he said over the last year, things that maybe I should have listened properly. Like the time last June when I told he I don't believe for one moment he hasn't stopped loving me. His reply was 'that's as maybe, but we can never be together'. He gave me a reason, and for the life of me I can't remember maybe because I had zoned out and didn't want to listen. He also said that's the reason why he doesn't stay over anymore. He hasn't stayed in the house since last March.
When he talked about moving back into the house last December (as housemates), I couldn't understand why as he didn't spend more than a couple of hours in my company every few weeks, so why one earth would he even consider moving back in. But in his head he had it all worked out. Then he meets Miss Welsh, and everything has changed.
I'm sorry for souding so negative today, it's probably because it's the week-end and I know he'll be spending his week-end with her, and it's still quite raw.
I've just got my PC back, it had been ill for a little while and had to go hospital. A lot of stuf has been wiped off, including loads of photos. The strange thing is, the photos that's left came up on screen, when the one's of him appeared it really felt he was still very much around me, still in my life. But as my Councellor said, it's in my head.
Thank you for listening.
SK xxxx
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Something else I meant to add - I do get OW/OM. I have often thought it would be nice to find someone new, experience the excitment, the thrill, fun, the way it makes you feel. It would certainly take away the focus off the stuff that's going on and make me feel real again. This horrible 'blank' feelng would go away, at least for a while.
SKxxx
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Do you ever wished you could dig a big hole, sleep and wake up when everything is back to 'normal', you feel good, in a good place and your head no longer runs away with you :)
xxx
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Hugs, Special K.
Yes, I have wished that before. Unfortunately, we shouldn't want to go back to the way it was. If we are honest with ourselves, some of the things our MLC'ers say have truth ingrained in them. Not all of it of course, but some.
I liked what Stayed said about the OW being invisible. I know it is hard, I still have issues of thinking of my H's OW and she has been out of the picture for 6 months. She is taking up wasted space in my brain. Has it gotten better? Yes, but I want her out completely. Try to start thinking of that other person as flawed. You are focusing on she is the "one". Yikes, if my H's OW was the "one" when he was in deep replay . . . she could have that nut case. We really don't want them when they are like that, we want who they were.
Pretend she doesn't exist, pretend she is invisible. It's hard but they are just a symptom and everything that my H has told me NOW (not then, because they lie to EVERYONE) is that it was a volatile, chaotic relationship, just like his brain was during that time. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.
I feel your pain, we all do as most of us have been there. Be gentle to yourself. Do something for yourself. Focus on you. It is a hard lesson to learn, but really once you can focus on you and your new life, you will find a sense of calm. When we are calm we are more rationale and can make choices in our lives.
"You can close the windows and darken your room, and you can open the windows and let light in. It is a matter of choice. Your mind is your room. Do you darken it or do you fill it with light?" Let the sun in, I promise it won't burn. HUGS, thoughts and prayers go out to you. You are special and this journey will show you how strong and courageous you are.
Sassy
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Hi Sassy
No definately wouldn't want to go back. I meant come up sometime in the future when everything is good :)
I am trying really hard today, but so low and on the verge of tears. I know it will pass, but I'm so tired of feeling this way; I can't remember at time now when I didn't have this heavy heart feeling. I just feel that at this stage I should be much further on and he should no longer be in my thoughts.
I totally agree with regards to OW, I am giving her head space and it's not doing me any good at all.
SK xxx
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Another bit of a rant, my heads working overtime today ;D Please feel free to slap me.
When my ex came back to me he was experiencing a lot of grief from his ex, it was awful. She'd leave messages on the house phone sobbing her heart out, she threated suicide on many occassions to the point where she was put on suicide watch. Threated several times to smash his flat up etc. Her main aim was to break us up/break him down and she succeeded on both.
I do feel hurt/angry about is I supported him as much as I could during this time, I tried to be that lighthouse. Even after the second BD, I tried to be there. Now when he's back on track, he finds someone else who gets the best of him.
Rant over - sorry. I just need to get all this negative stuff out otherwise it will just keep eating away at me.
SK xxxx
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SK,
Another bit of a rant, my heads working overtime today ;D Please feel free to slap me.
SLAP! ;) - Does that feel better?
When my ex came back to me he was experiencing a lot of grief from his ex, it was awful. She'd leave messages on the house phone sobbing her heart out, she threated suicide on many occassions to the point where she was put on suicide watch. Threated several times to smash his flat up etc. Her main aim was to break us up/break him down and she succeeded on both.
I do feel hurt/angry about is I supported him as much as I could during this time, I tried to be that lighthouse. Even after the second BD, I tried to be there.
Boy - that was some affair down that time! You would think that the MLCer would "learn his lesson" after going through all of that.
It is understandable that you feel hurt that you stood by him - and he didn't seem to get it or appreciate it. I promise you - he will remember (if he doesn't already) that you were kind to him when he was hurting. Unfortunately - it is all about HIM - so he just isn't in the mode to appreciate your kindness - but that doesn't mean he didn't notice it nor that he won't remember it. He does and will.
Now when he's back on track, he finds someone else who gets the best of him.
I have two comments on this. This is another proof that it isn't about the other person and was never about the other person. He didn't find his one true love and then when that didn't work - find his 2nd true love. It is all attempts to avoid and make himself happy through someone else. This will not work, by the way.
2nd comment - someone else gets the best of him? No. I don't think so. He may put on an act for awhile - but the mask slips. This is not the best of him - but you already know that......you just feel sad right now.
Rant over - sorry. I just need to get all this negative stuff out otherwise it will just keep eating away at me.
SK xxxx
It's good to get these feelings out. That is one of the great things about this forum. Rant away! Get it out! Don't allow it to eat away at you.
You are doing okay....So, don't worry.
Hugs,
L
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Thank you so much Limitless. I am trying so hard honest, but today has been a real struggle and I've been on the verge of tears all day (well tears are flowing down my face as I type :'( )
I can't really talk about how I'm feeling to anyone else. I had the classic 'forget him' this week. My Mum is very negative about it, my sister has been great but she has a lot of stuff going on in her life, and I know she's getting a little fed-up with me (as I am myself :) ) Since my Councelling session on Tuesday I feel emotionally and physically drained + if I mentioned this to him he really wouldn't understand, think I was deluded and living on another planet.
So tonight I'm going to kind to myself and listen to my body. I'm going to watch rubbish TV, eat chocolate (I bought an Easter Egg tonight :D ) and drink wine. I feel like I want to be on my own right now, so for once I'm going to listen to myself.
Hugs Limitless, I so appreciate you posting.
SK xxxx
BTW the slap helped a little ;D
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This is the place to rant specialK... go for it girl!
Oh SpecialK, your h wasn't back on track my dear. If he had been, he wouldn't be in replay.
hugs Stayed...
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Special K, How big is that Easter Egg? make sure you get extra large OR buy two ??? ::) ;D
Stayed, We need Tee Shirts that say 'my H is in Replay be extra kind to me' ;D If they saw us in it they'd be like :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o "Oh spending money on new tee shirts eh?" :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Hugs Special K. Eat two Easter Eggs and have a glass of wine for me (arghh gave it up for Lent).
This too shall pass. I am feeling the same way today.
Sassy
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When mine was (and is) especially squirrelly in regards to how he says things I wanted to make T-shirts that said:
What does that MEAN????
:o :o :o :o
They aren't from this planet. ::)
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I'm loving the T-Shirt idea, we could get rich with those things. What a great idea! ;D ;D ;D
hugs Stayed
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Hi everyone
Thanks ever so for your responses and support, you really helped me. After reading through this and talking to Nes last night really helped me and I do feel better today. Thank you.
The egg was lovey - it was small to medium one. There is something about Easter Egg chocolate :)
Sassy: I had a large glass of wine for you - how are you feeling today?
Loving the t-shirt idea.
SKxxx
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I've just order Beyond Blame
xxx
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Saw a man walking at a concert with a tee shirt "Stop yelling at me"
Wife walking behind him a tad, her tee shirt said "I wasn't yelling" ::)
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Very good :)
After taking on board advice on here, I have decided to look around for a Councellor who understands MLC and I have found one :) Iniitial appointment is on Monday lunchtime. I know this is my journey, but being able to talk about MLC will really helpful.
Thanks again for all your support, help and input.
SK xxx
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im loving this t-shirt slogans.... mine would be the colour pink and wrote on the front would be.... you cant make this $hit up. i know mlc is no way a funny thing to go through, but having a bit of humour some times helps ;D ;D ;D
hey sk ;D glad you found a new counsellor who understands about mlc. how did you find one so quick. hope monday goes well for you. youre sounding great in yourself today too. i hope youre proud of what you have achieved this week sk. the only way is up now girl xxx ;D ;D ;D
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Good for you SpecialK. You do whatever you FEEL you need to help yourself honey. You are sounding stronger each day.
Well done and hugs Stayed
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Thank you, I will get there. I've had a chill week-end, I wanted time out this week-end so I listened to myself.
I know this may sound silly and pathetic, but as I had the PC fixed (ex started to look at it before Christmas but he hasn't mentioned it again, so I got it sorted myself) it kept asking for the product key for Office. So I emailed him to did he know where the number was I got the pc fixed, and said sadly the photos had been wiped. I sent it on Wednesday morning. Tonight around 11 I get text from him saying: Office product key is xxxxxxx. Do you need any money this month end? No thanks for sorting the pc out, no mention of the photos etc., just cold and to the point. His attitude towards me has really changed since he's meet Miss Wales. It feels like I'm the bad person, and yet I'm not as I've not done anything wrong. He doesn't treat his son's mum like this, even after all the sh&t she put him through, so why me?
That's my rant over, hopefully I can sleep now :)
SKxxx
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Special K
I hope you slept OK.
You asked a question:
He doesn't treat his son's mum like this, even after all the sh&t she put him through, so why me?
I think there are two reasons for this.
The first is that people in crisis tend to treat those closest to them the worst hence the reason us LBS' are in the firing line until we get ourselves out of it and secondly that it is because he can. Months ago someone asked a very similiar question and both Stayed and RCR posed the question to their recovered MLCers.
In both cases the simple answer was 'because they could'. Or something like that.
Somehow, and I don't have the answers to this, you need to work this out. It definitely is not about demanding respect or that our partners behave differently. It is about how we change and become truly indepedent of our partners so that our interactions with them are, with time, based on mutual consideration and when they do not meet our expectations - in terms of their treatment of us - it really no longer matters.
It really is small steps for a long, long time and the focus has to be on ourselves. You / me have to work out the shape of life based on the reality of today. Then, as I have found, I expect you will start taking some pretty big steps even if the practicalities take time. In my case my S15 is my priority now so my dreams of running away to the country are on hold. But one day.......
As for your partners behaviour, just let it go.
Take care,
CrazyStuff
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I completely agree with Crazystuff. She is right, that is exactly what my h told me, he knew he could treat me like that and get away with it. So he did. People often treat the people who love them the most, the worse. Doesn't make much sense, but there you have it.
You are doing fine. At first you will be bitter that he didn't congratulate you on fixing the computer, in time, you won't need his approval. That is when you will know, you are beginning to heal from this. Which is a really wonderful moment (which of course you instantly crash for a day or so, hehehe, but you know there will more WONDERFUL moments ahead).
hugs and way to go with the computer... hugs Stayed
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Thanks ever so for your input.
Strangely I don't feel upset about it like I would have done, I'm more annoyned. I sense he is angry and unhappy (maybe still angry re the email I sent him), but he's directing at me (that's coz I won't leave his head - ;D ). If things are going really well with Miss Wales, then there is no need to have an attitude with me. This is his choice not mine. If he wants me out of his life completely, then ask me to leave (I still live in his house and he pays all the bills), sell the house etc., he know that once I go he will never see me again or will I have contact again.
Yes I will rise above it, he can 'twist in the wind' I say yes to the money though :D
BTW the pc is his, that why it annoyned me, but the lesson is not to mention again of the things I've done. Actually no further contact from me unless it's absolutely necessary.
I have my new introduction Councelling session at lunchtime, I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks all, catch you later.
SKxxx
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Looking forward to hearing what you think of your new counselor. NO EXPECTATIONS though kiddo, we can say anything we want, but doing is a completely different story. At least it's FREE, hehehe, my favorite price.
You are sounding calmer, stronger SpecialK, nice to see.
hugs Stayed
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Sounding good Special K. Look at the computer this way. You took care of it yourself. You are becoming independent! :) I remember when I started fixing things around the house that H said he would get to and never did. That was a turning point for me, perhaps this is yours. That's what I took this MLC crap by the horns and threw it to the side and worried about me.
Good luck with the counselor today. Remember those first sessions tend to be all fact finding. I hope this is the "one" for you.
Sassy
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Thanks Sassy, definately the way forward now (it's his pc), in the past he always if there was anything I need to let him know. Well I won't be doing that anymore :D
Well I went to my Councelling session, I got lost and arrived 20 minutes late, but she was really lovely about it.
We had an hour together, a whistle stop tour of what was going on in my life, and a look into my past. Yep floads of tears especially when talking about my Dad and his death. Even though it was 6.5 years ago, it still really hurts. Must admit I was quite surprised there was still grief tucked away.
I also talked about my addiction to tarot, which she will help me with.
She also gets MLC, it was refreshing to be about to talk about ex, how he is, my life with him without being told to take the rose coloured glasses off.
I feel she really understood me and will help me a great deal moving forward - there are still a lot of stuff I haven't dealth with regards to my past which I have taken into my future. She will me deal with that, also help me to let go and detach from ex.
So going forward I will go with her, it was so refreshing to be able to talk about what's been happening without it being dismissed. Also when I talk about ex's attitude towards me now, I'm sure she will help understand it and leave it behind.
I know I will grow from this, I have the motovation and determination to do this now. I have been stuck, and yes if I'm honest with myself waiting around for him, not in a conscious way. Not any more :D
By the time June comes and I have a new great nephew or niece in my life I will be a different person
A very big thank you for pointing out that finding a Councellor that does understand MLC probably would be better. Very good advice, thank you.
Hugs
SKxxx
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Fantastic specialK!!!
hugs Stayed
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Awesome
news Specialk.
Sassy
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Thank you, I wouldn't have done it without the advice given here. :) Must admit it was relief to find someone who didn't dismis me when I talked about the situ with ex.
I do need help and advice on something else, I know as I learn to detach and let go this won't bother me, and I'll just 'oh get one with it' and it will go completely over my head.
Ex txt this morning asking which account to put money into for me. So straight forward, no hello, hi, hiya and no sign-off, just straight to the point. He has never ever been like this with me, even after second bd. Strange though when he saw me he still hugged and kissed me - when he arrived and when he left.
Now either he resents me now because of the situation he finds himself in - ie I'm still living in his house. But the other part of me says he could get me out, he could pay me off, but perhaps he can't afford to do it at the moment. But he still asks if I need money. Guilt maybe, that's why he helps me out.
Or things are getting really serious between him and Miss Wales therefore he treats me like something he's trodden in, hoping I will go away.
Or he's not happy and he's angry with himself because of the situation he's got himself into.
I'm being hard on myself again, just looking into the negative things AGAIN!!!!!
SKxxx
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Hey SpecialK,
The very simple reality is that you don't know what he is thinking at this stage because he isn't telling you - all you are doing is interpretting what he is saying via text through the filter of how you used to be with one another.
MLCer's are simply unable to have grown up proper relationships with anyone - hence his falling in love with his soul mate on a flight to Oz - it's mad in the real world but makes sense in MLC Land.
Try to step back and see his communication for what it is without any interpretation as it'll colour your judgement. He is continuing to pay certain expenses whilst you live in the house you share - he is communicating and doing what he promises to do - these things may not be on your timescales but they are being done. Give thanks for that.
Stay strong and it is great news that you have found a Counsellor who you feel will support you fully.
((hugs))
P
x
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Yes I really do need to detachment from him sooner rather than later. I want to get to a point where he no longers bothers me. Like you say it colours my judgement and it prevents me from moving forward.
Patience is not one of my strong points, I want it now. I have a tendency to rush into things than think about it later and I've come unstuck on numerious occasions. About time I learnt from that.
I do sound ungrateful. Really I'm not, in lots of respect I'm in a lucky position, and yes your right I should give thanks for that. Thank you for pointing that out.
Hugs
SK xxxx
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Special K, Listen to Moving ON...really well said..makes good sense bc it's true.
No one ever talked more than my H...all the time talking before BD about everything. For the first 10 mos of this nightmare same thing you said. Like robot man. That's good though. He's like that with everyone. So Miss Affair Down Wales is getting that c*ap also bc our Hs previous persona is on vacation. (affair down doesn't care. any man will do as long as he's married) Hs Evil confused selfish twin is house sitting his body. ??? Let dust settle in his foggy fog head. My Hs texts are starting to say "Hi ya" and "Good Morning" etc...probably bc I treat him like a college student I love on a bender ::) ??? :-*
Don't worry. He'll keep following the script.........Hugs Girl....
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I so love your sense of your - you've really made me laugh!
I've decided to get off my high horse and react in the sameway as him. For example when I checked my account he had put money in it. I was just going to leave it, act like he is, but when I thought about it, that's not me I'm not rude or ungrateful (I know I sound it sometimes), so I txt him say 'just checked my account, thanks for doing that for me :)' That way I feel better about it, I feel it shows his behaviour is not getting to me and I won't swop to his level.
I'm beginning to see how childish this can also be ;D
SKxxx
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Hi SpecialK:
Detachment is for you. Kikki recently posted a link to depression and MLC. If you missed it, I will post it here. Although we are all at different points in our journey, it helps to remember this is about them and not to take it so personally. (Hard to do that, trust me I know.) I hope you find value in these words, I know I did. Hugs, you are doing well. Stay strong.
Apologize if this is a duplication, but I’ve found them of enormous value and put them together here for anyone attempting to understand a MLC partner.
Depression sign #1: MLC'ERS WILL OFTEN VIEW THEIR LBS AND THEMSELVES AS ONE PERSON
The reason behind the MLC'ers lack of boundaries comes because they do not view their LBS separate from themselves. They are so engulfed in negativity that they do not think clearly. As MLC'ers look to their loved ones to define and deliver their happiness, MLC'er eventually feel betrayed due to happiness being an internal thing not external. This "feeling" of betrayal may cause some of the anger we see in our MLC'ers.
Depression sign #2: MLC'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SUSTAIN AND MAINTAIN RELATIONSHIPS AS WELL AS RESOLVE RELATIONSHIP PROBLEMS.
Because of their irrational ways of thinking mainly due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, MLC'ers will hear/interpret WHAT THEY THINK others are saying rather than hearing what really is being said. They destroy these relationships by hearing blame rather than suggestions or means to problem solve.
Depression sign #3: MLC'S HAVE DEPENDENT PERSONALITIES.
We are overly dependent on others when we do not feel complete or whole. This is the very essence of a ML'er. As they continue through the tunnel, the ML'er gets much worse before they get better. The LBS is often forced into a "caregiver" role, trying desperately to fix the crisis. The ML'er becomes aware of their neediness and becomes jealous/envious of their loved ones strengths and efforts to help. Thus the ML'er responds with more anger.
Depression sign #4: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO SHOW EMOTIONAL SUPPORT
ML'ers are unable to stand the emotional pain they are creating. They become distant and indifferent to their loved ones. They view the LBS's as the cause of their own suffering and therefore treat them as strangers/enemies.
Depression sign #5: ML'ERS ARE EXTREME ATTENTION SEEKERS
Attention both positive and negative can confirm love and self-worth to the ML'er. To some ML'ers negative attention becomes better than no attention. Many have experienced "no attention" periods in their childhoods. Many ML'ers use drama, sinfulness, and confusion in an effort to get love. This then ensures the ML'er of keeping their LBS's close.
Depression sign #6: ML'ERS ARE SELF-CENTERED
It is all about them. As they become more absorbed in finding themselves, everyone else in their past life gradually becomes more and more obsolete. Most find their way back to what is really important - family and commitment. Unfortunately, they leave a heavy path of destruction which has to be faced.
Depression sign #7: ML'ER'S ARE UNABLE TO TRUST
How can ML'ers trust their LBS if they cannot trust themselves? Their emotions and thought processes are unpredictable and irrational. When ML'ers cannot trust, they often act out in angry outbursts and infidelity. They are searching for someone to reflect back to them an image of perfection and often heroism.
Depression sign #8: ML'ERS ARE UNABLE TO HANDLE STRESS
As ML'ers progress through the tunnel they become more and more unable to handle stress. Their life is now full of lies, deceptions, betrayals and manipulations. It becomes harder and harder to maintain their superficial world. Once they are reminded of some bit of reality revealing their inabilities and flaws, they react by getting angry, blaming, spewing, etc...
They do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. If you doubt this try talking "relationship talks". You will no doubt be disappointed in the outcome. Until they are ready to repent and show remorse for their behaviors, relationship talks are useless.
Depression Sign #9: ML'ERS REWRITE HISTORY
Ml'ers typically have very low self-esteem. They will rewrite past events in their favor to try to build up their fragile egos. They would rather lie than face the possibility that something is wrong with them, let alone a mental illness. Many Ml'ers brain chemistry is skewed, not allowing them to distinguish between reality and distorted perceptions. However the distortions cannot go on forever.... As time goes on, they often get caught in their lies due to not being able to keep their stories straight.
Depression Sign #10: MOST ML'ERS HAVE AFFAIRS
The most painful and devastating part of the MLC for the LBS and family is the affair or series of affairs. Emotional affairs as well as physical affairs occur and most emotional affairs turn into physical affairs for the ML'er. Some of the affairs result in producing a "love child". Some result in the Ml'er marrying the OW/OM. Even though the ML'er is not thinking clearly, there is no justification or excuse for committing adultery. This post is by no means meant to excuse their behavior. It is unacceptable. If it is forgivable depends upon the LBS and the ML'ers ability to repent and show sincere remorse.
An affair allows the Ml'er a distraction from the pain resulting from one or more of the following issues: childhood abandonment/abuse, grief, aging, health, job loss or dissatisfaction, parenting, sexual dysfunction, or financial. Ml'ers feel if they start over with someone else, all their issues will go away. Little do they realize how much they have just complicated their life not to mention all the pain they will inflict on "loved ones" and friends. They are self-absorbed and only care about trying to obtain their happiness.
The OW/OM knows little or nothing of the Ml'ers history or flaws. They are fed "rewriting of history" reports from the ML'er on their spouse or significant other. They start the relationship by idealizing the Ml'er. The Ml'er can portray him/herself as heroic, perfect, and accomplished. Both individuals are living a fantasy. Each believes they have found their soul mate. Newness of a relationship and sex partner is empowering. Morality is no longer important. Lust equals love in the Ml'ers mind.
The OW/OM are extremely flawed individuals. They have many issues as well. Some identical to the ML'er which helps create the "connection" so many Ml'ers claim they are missing with their LBS. Ml'ers choose someone who is safe. They choose someone who will not outshine them or pose a threat. The OW/OM is usually a very insecure, fragile individual who needs to be taken care of in some way, shape or form. In many cases, the ML'er tries to create in the OW/OM a version of their LBS. Some encourage them to dress and act like the LBS. They will often take them to the same places as they did the LBS. Being of weak character and integrity, the OW/OM allows this and goes along for the ride. Many are in it for the financial and social status benefits that the ML'er brings to the table. The ML'er is usually not looking at finding someone better than their LBS. They want to find someone that they can feel superior to which will help nurture their bruised egos.
Eventually, chemical imbalances, stress, and doses of reality hit the Ml'er causing them to display their true selves. Fears resurface in the Ml'er materializing as anger and hostility. The OW/OM no longer reflects back to the Ml'er intense feelings of admiration and perfection. Sex becomes routine. Many experience sexual dysfunction during the MLC, but very much want to portray themselves as sexually potent individuals. Responsibilities increase for the ML'er especially if they are maintaining two households. Their world collapses very slowly. Almost to the point of being hard to detect for the LBS. The ML'er has come full circle. He/she is now at the same place they started. What the ML'er does at this point varies. Some go home after they realize the grass is not greener on the other side, others stay in this miserable state of self-pity and despair, and others just repeat the cycle and find OW/OM #2.
Depression sign #11: ML'ERS ARE CONTROL FREAKS
Ml'ers have no control over their behaviors and actions. They feel if they can control others as well as their environment they will eventually become whole again. This of course is not true. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect. The more controlling one is with others, the more we push them away.
How does the ML'er control others? By being verbally/physically abusive, manipulating, complaining, criticizing, blaming, saying things like "I want a divorce", "I never loved you", "I love you, but I am not in love with you", being impossible to please, having an affair, threatening to take your children away, threatening your living arrangements, threatening your financial status, losing his/her job, threatening suicide, etc. The list can go on and on.....
How does the Ml'er control their environment? Moving constantly, traveling more than usual, changing jobs, changing what they eat, changing how they dress, changing their overall appearance, what they drive, changing their friends, replacing their spouse, replacing their children, etc....
It is only when the ML'er realizes that they are not in ultimate control of others or things that a breakthrough can occur. That is why setting boundaries are important. It makes the ML'er realize their limitations and lack of control. Boundaries should be set in a firm but loving way. Ml'ers are more willing to respond to LBS's requests when this is done in a non-authoritative way.
Depression sign #12: ML'ERS HAVE EXTREME ANGER/RAGING/SPEWING
Mid-life crisis is a form of depression. Depression is anger turned inward. Unfortunately anger is a large part of the MLC journey. Anger is the path of least resistance. It is easier for the ML'er to be angry than to deal with his/her issues. Until that pain is acknowledged, and experienced, it continues to trigger anger and depression.
Beneath anger lies pain, and beneath that pain lies fear. If we remember this, we are more likely to become more sympathetic to the ML'ers journey. Unfortunately at times, it is very difficult to do. The bulk of the ML'ers anger is directed at the LBS. Ml'ers very much want to alter the perceptions of the LBS' to match theirs.
Depression Sign #13: ML'ERS ARE INDIFFERENT
Indifferent is defined as "without interest or concern, not caring, disinterested, impartial and apathetic". Nothing is harder to live with than an indifferent person. Ml'ers are indifferent primarily toward their past life. They are no longer interested in what the LBS, children, relatives, dog, cat, best friend, or church group are doing. They could care less about the lawn being cut, the algae in the pool, the leaking roof, or the bills being paid. Their past life no longer exists. They truly become "aliens" to people who love them. There are many reasons why this happens. ML'ers are self absorbed and don't want to focus on anyone but themselves. ML'ers no longer want any responsibility in their lives and just want to have fun and freedom. People and things of the past remind the ML'er of their failures. What better way to not have to deal with their pain then to pretend people and things don't exist anymore.
This "indifference" creates a whole new set of problems for the LBS. They now have the responsibilities of two people. The LBS becomes overworked and overwhelmed not to mention emotionally devastated. Many times they become financially devastated as well. The ML'er does not seem to notice the turmoil they have caused the LBS and again are "indifferent".
Depression sign #14: ML'ERS CAN BE NARCISSISTIC
The ML'er is full of low self-worth. By focusing on their appearance, their possessions, and their needs they try to project an air of importance, mortality, and perfection. They seek attention by focusing on superficial things and soon discover that these things bring only fleeting moments of happiness. No matter how many times you remind the ML'er that happiness comes from within, they try to prove you wrong by buying the next item or enhancing another body part.
Everything is about the ML'er. Everybody else's needs don't exist.
Depression sign #15: ML'ERS MAKE POOR DECISIONS
Ml'ers base their decisions on emotions as well as faulty perceptions due to chemical imbalances in the brain. This prevents them from functioning properly in important areas of their life like the workplace and home. As they make their way through the mid life tunnel, they make more and more poor decisions eventually causing them to doubt their abilities. This is just another hit on their already low self-esteem.
This is where the role of the OW/OM comes into play. ML'ers often will give up some of their decision making power at this point and depend on their "soul mates" to intervene. The OW/OM may or may not have clearer thinking at this time but you can bet their thinking will be in THEIR favor. The ML'er is much easier to convince, manipulate and persuade than ever. Since this is not a relationship based on trust and love, each player in this dysfunctional relationship is out for himself/herself.
Ml'ers also will often choose not to make any decisions due to their mass confusion.
Depression sign #16: ML'ERS ARE POOR MONEY MANAGERS
ML'ers have no control over what they do with their money. They tend to be very impulsive and often spend like crazy and make bad investments. They also use their money to satisfy and impress the OW/OM in their life as well as new found friends. Traveling seems to increase. Credit cards are often used to their limit and they have no awareness of the consequences of their debt. Their past financial responsibilities such as bills, supporting their LBS and children are put on hold. This is no longer important to them and they seem oblivious to how they affect others. It is important that the LBS protect themselves financially at this time and sometimes that means resorting to legal assistance to prevent involvement with collection agencies and bankruptcy. Spending serves as a distraction as well as a feeling of power and control to the ML'er. Money makes them feel immortal and special. This feeling slowly dissipates as they face their pain and debt.
Depression sign #17: MOST ML'ERS ARE ABUSIVE
This is one of the most serious signs of depression - abuse.
Here I will focus on emotional abuse rather than physical abuse because I feel it is more prevalent in the ML'ers journey.
Emotional abuse can be divided into various categories:
A. Withholding: By withholding love, affection, accolades, sex, children, communication, etc.. the Ml'er is saying I have something you want and I can withhold it from you. The Ml'er can take this even a step further by withholding love and affection from you and then giving it to someone else.
B. Discounting: By discounting the LBS' perceptions, the Ml'er is saying I can point out your uselessness.
C. Accusing and blaming: By blaming the LBS, the Ml'er is saying the LBS is to blame for their pain no matter what they do to you so they don't have to stop or be accountable.
D. Judging and criticizing: By judging the LBS, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that when I tell you that something is wrong with your thoughts and actions, I put myself in charge of you.
E. Threatening: This a way for the ML'er to have control over the LBS to imply that they will take away something valuable to them, such as family life, financial stability, home, etc....
F. Name Calling: By calling names, the Ml'er is saying to the LBS that they are worthless and don't exist.
G. Denial: By denying what they are doing to you, the Ml'er can keep everything like it is and not take any responsibility for their behavior.
H. Abusive anger: By being extremely angry and raging, the Ml'er is saying as long as I am scary I can have my way.
The most common element of the categories of abuse is control. The Ml'er avoids his feelings of insecurity and powerlessness by controlling the LBS. If the Ml'er does not have anyone to have power over, they don't have any power. They often connect with someone who is easier to control and won't resist their need to dominate. It is in debate if a Ml'er does these behaviors intentionally. I think it can vary with the Ml'er. Some do not seem to have awareness that they are hurting others. Most Ml'ers seem to be totally out of character and are labeled "aliens" by their standers. The thing that is very confusing to the stander is that often ML'ers can control these behaviors in front of others, but seem to let loose when alone with the stander.
Depression sign #18: ML'ERS MAY ABUSE ALCOHOL AND DRUGS
Another escape from reality is the use/abuse of alcohol and drugs. Those who never used on a regular basis may start experimenting with various substances. Those who routinely used may increase their usage of alcohol or drugs or both.
Substance abuse may deepen the ML'ers depression only causing them more pain and problems. Misery loves company and many times the ML'er will choose to associate with people who also resort to alcohol and drug abuse.
Depression sign #19: ML'ERS CAN EXPERIENCE SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION
Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of menopause in woman (irregular periods, decreased fertility, etc...). Hormonal changes cause the physical symptoms of andropause in men (decrease bone density, hair loss, etc...). Hormonal changes in both men and woman can cause emotional problems such as depression.
Most people know that woman go through menopause. Men can go through what is called andropause - a male menopause so to speak. Andropause is characterized by a loss of testosterone. This affects some men more than others. Woman experience a loss of estrogen. This affects some woman more than others. Both males and females experience similar symptoms during this time, irritability, loss of libido in women and erection problems in men, sleep disturbances, mood swings, and depression. Mid life crisis involves ones hormonal, psychological, interpersonal, social, sexual and spiritual components.
Depression sign #20: SOME MLERS EXHIBIT JEALOUSY
Ml'ers exhibit jealousy as a method of control. Many have fears of abandonment and loss. ML'ers show jealousy because of their feelings of emptiness. Deep down they are terrified of losing their loved ones but feel it may be inevitable. ML'ers sense that they will no longer feel needy if they can only control their LBS.
Depression sign #21: ML'ERS ARE FULL OF SELF-PITY
Ml'ers really hate themselves. They may or may not show this to their LBS, but that is what is brewing underneath all their horrible behavior. Often, childhood issues come to the surface and feelings of rejection and abandonment prevail. Because of their self-hate and low self esteem, they have difficulty accepting that their LBS cares for them. Some ML'ers will express this by statements such as, "You cannot love me like I need to be loved", "Why don't you date other people", "the kids would be better off with a different father", “Why don’t you hate me”, etc..... They are so involved with their pity party that nothing else matters to them.
Depression Sign #22: ML'ERS DON'T WANT ANY RESPONSIBILITY
Before their crisis, most Ml'ers were very responsible, productive members of their home and work environment. Not anymore. Life is a party and they want to have fun. Many Ml'ers lose their jobs, stop working around the house, ignore their children, don't pay their bills, spend foolishly, etc... the list goes on and on. They actually feel that this is the time for them to get everything THEY want out of life and other people need to take care of THEIR responsibilities. Chemical imbalances cause them to lose focus and control of themselves. The LBS is forced to take on all the ML'ers responsibilities as well as their own. This is usually not acknowledged by the Ml'er or appreciated. In fact, they will use this as an opportunity to criticize or cut down the LBS' way of handling things. This gives them the opportunity to disconnect even more from the LBS and their family. It is only when their world starts falling apart do they realize how irresponsible they have been in their work and home environment. Guilty feelings will then set in and eventually processed by the Ml'er in later stages.
Depression sign #23: ML'ERS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO CRITICISM
Ml'ers have this intense need to be respected and admired. They are overly sensitive to any suggestions, comments, helpful remarks and criticisms. Any comments even remotely critical are perceived as attacks on their already low self-esteem. Ml'ers will take these "perceived attacks" and deflect them by finding fault in their LBS. Usually these acts of finding fault are either non-existent or exaggerated remarks or incidents.
Depression sign #24: ML'ERS USE PROJECTION AS A DEFENSE MECHANISM
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and actions to others. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.
Depression sign #25: ML'ERS CREATE CONFLICT/ARGUMENTS WITH LOVED ONES
Ml'ers create conflict/arguments with their LBS in order to have them respond in a NEGATIVE way. When the LBS responds in a negative way, i.e. anger, crying, panic, criticism, rejection, etc.... this enables the Ml'er to attach blame to LBS' normal defensive reactions. This also enables the Ml'er to justify their horrible behavior to themselves and others. For example, my ex started an argument with me one day on the way back from the grocery store. He said I should of been spending time with him alone instead of shopping for food for the kids. I told him how silly he was behaving and became angry. By the time we got home, he was so upset at my "insensitivity to his needs" that he left the house for that day and spent his time with the other woman.
Not only was this a way for him to make me look bad, but it was also a way for him to justify being with his "soulmate".
Depression sign #26: ML'ERS ARE IN DENIAL
Along with projection, DENIAL is another major defense mechanism that mid-lifers use. Denial is the psychological process by which human beings protect themselves from things which threaten them by blocking knowledge of those things from their awareness. It is a defense that distorts reality; it keeps us from feeling the pain and uncomfortable truth about things we do not want to face. If we cannot feel or see the consequences of our actions, then everything is fine and we can continue to live without making any changes.
When Ml'ers are feeling badly, they will often associate these painful feelings with their LBS instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Getting rid of their LBS seems to be for them the only way of escape. Denial can become increasingly worse as the Ml'er continues on his journey. Their list of bad behavior and deeds becomes so long that there is no better place to be than the world of denial. The Ml'er becomes unrecognizable to their loved ones until various circumstances force the ml'er to examine the hell they have created. These circumstances may involve excessive debt, unwanted pregnancy, loss of job, fractured family, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse, loss of friends, homelessness, etc…
Depression sign #27: ML'ERS BECOME VERY COMPETITIVE WITH LOVED ONES
When a spouse is in mid life crisis, their LBS as well as other close family members become the enemy. Ml'ers are constantly comparing their loved ones with themselves. Many times they fall short and this leads to further insecurity and self-doubt. During their journey, they are out to prove that they are important and admired and become very competitive. They will withhold compliments/achievements toward important family members at this time. They begin to choose people in their lives that will make them feel good about themselves. Usually this means choosing people who are less accomplished and lower in character in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.
Depression sign #28: ML'ERS HAVE MAJOR MOOD SWINGS
This is a very obvious sign of depression but worth writing about. Family members who witness this depression sign often feel like they are going insane. The frequency of the mood swings with mid-lifers varies. Some experience rapid cycling, others much slower. Loved ones describe their mid-lifers as having Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde personalities. They begin to feel like they are walking on egg-shells. The littlest thing can set the mid-lifer into a rage or period of depression. Some family members may feel their mid-lifer is on drugs. These mood swings may or may not affect the work environment. Some mid-lifers are better at controlling what they let others see. This therefore leaves the LBS feeling responsible for the mood swings and their world begins to fill with self-doubt.
Depression sign #29: ML'ERS ARE MANIPULATIVE
People become manipulative when they are afraid of losing something of value to them. This can range from fear of losing an actual person or losing a perception that someone has of them. Mid-lifers manipulate loved ones in believing their reality, which at times can be very distorted due to chemical imbalances in the brain, guilt, shame, denial, self-centeredness, etc... Examples of mid-lifers being manipulative can involve twisting words around, creating confusion, drama, rewriting of history, lying, etc... Unfortunately the mid-lifers use of manipulation usually ends up pushing people away from them.
Depression sign #30: ML'ERS HAVE WITHDRAWING/ABANDONING BEHAVIORS
Another very painful characteristic of the mid life journey is when they abandon/withdraw from loved ones. This varies with each mid-lifer changing with each stage. It can range from emotionally withdrawing to physically abandoning their entire family. Many are simply just imitating a part of their childhood when they experienced some form of abandonment or abuse. Many use it as a form of control and power. To some, it is easier to run than face their demons, so they hide to get away from things and people that remind them of their pain or failures. Regardless of the reason, these behaviors leave loved ones in shock and confusion. Mid-lifers are oblivious to the pain and suffering they cause. Many LBS' lose their homes, self-esteem, children, etc... due to the abandonment.
Sassy
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Thanks Sassy, that's really helpful. I've printed it out. There are a quite a few signs that I've highlight that I believe relates to him.
Yes Detachment I have to learn quickly
SK xxxx
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SK,
I recall exH acting:
one way on the phone ( felt free to scream at me if he wanted; I'd hang up)
Another way in emails ( all business straight forward)
and compeletly different in person. :o :o ( Quite contrite)
It depended on the type of communication ::)
And
Thanks!!VERY informative post Sassy!!
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Odd, very odd. He's only been acting like this since he meet Miss Wales. Before that he'd call every 2 or 3 weeks and his txt always finished with an 'x'. Not anymore.
SK xxxx
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Sorry for the quickie hijack...
Sassy, thanks for posting that..I'm going to copy onto other threads too.
Such wisdom in that!
Bon
New thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2236.0