Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: hyperglad on April 01, 2012, 03:22:20 AM
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There are quite a few now on the this path and i feel we need some resource support. I have googled this topic to no avail.
I thought maybe RCR or others might have some ideas of where we could find what we should expect during this phase...I for one am struggling and need some kind of reassurance ?
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Hyper, I have also been searching for some kind of information but mostly find some kind of marriage repair stuff. What to do after an affair, etc. All good but not quite what I am looking for. I'm not sure I even know what I am looking for but I keep searching. Things are going good but just wish there was some guidelines, suggestions maybe even stages of what to expect. But, instead for now I go forward blindly , watching all you in front of me hoping to pick up on what to expect. It's in God's hands on whether it will work out or not.
Hopefully we can all share what helps in our situations and learn from each other.
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Hyper and Wondering Did you try clicking on HBs older posts ??? I always read HB and I can't help but think I skipped a lot bc I am in Replay stage with my Nutcase. LOL! So I would skip the reconcilliation advice or skim it as a dream in the future ;) a place to re-visit when the time was actually here. ::)
I'll look also for you ;D
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Wondering said exactly what I was going to say.
I feel like I've been wandering around in the dark so long it would be really good to feel like I at least might be on the right path.
I've decided it's time to get brave and intitiate some more intimate touching and talking about what was wrong with our relationship ( especially the sex) and I think the time is coming fast for me to tell him to work on dropping the guilt so we can move ahead.
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Yes wondering that's what I need....some sort of affirmation I guess.
Mama yes i have read HB posts however i guess i wanted some more general guidelines...as wondering has said not even sure what :o
In this....when My H and i were not intimate for 10ths it went on so long it felt awkward to get back to where we were , bearing in mind we had also had several episodes of Hysterical bonding. We started just lying close etc and then when we both felt safe I guess it happened...have you recently mentioned how it makes you feel to him ?
I have just seen a blog from RCR on R going to have a read hopefully may get something from that. :)
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Well there aren't any "clear" indications that he's interested - more excuses than anything. I know one day when he was just frustrated he said he wanted it to be spontanious and unplanned.
Good Lord he already has an idea of how it needs to play out. ::)
But I started this morning when we were both awake just draping my legs over him even though he's facing away from me because he can only sleep on the one side due to the surgery.
It's really only to get his brain working in that direction at this point. If we don't get passed this hurdle I have to try to make him understand I won't get passed the skank any faster.
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I don't know if this applies but I was looking for reconnecting advise- I started a new thread looking for maybe what to expect in the next phase
I know H is still with OW but I also know it is on a much different level then before.
Wondering what comes right before reconnecting as I feel we are there but with OW present.
Looking for any help or advise for others who have been here already!!!
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Reconnection and reconciliation are two different things.
Until they break withdrawal you are still in reconnection not in reconcillation.
And your actions would be different in the two different stages from what I have read.
This is an old thread on reconnection.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=26.0
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Snitching from another site again, but this may help.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1
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Since I'm still getting the Touch and Goes, I don't really know what to expect in (or if I'll even recognize) reconnection. What I have read though, it seems like you have to start from scratch - to build a NEW relationship with your H. I seem to recall RCR and HB,(our two moms, LOL) had a rather animated discussion over this late last year.
Who would you be if you were to end your stand and begin anew with another? Would you expect all the things of the new R that you did of your M, or would you take each day as a new day, learning about this new person in your life, deciding if you were compatible? As your relationship with that new person grew, would you expect them to just know you and tell you all, or would you try to develop healthy communication skills with them, letting them in on your hurt, your anger, your trust issues? Would you have patience with them if they were unsure how to proceed, after they came to understand the depth of your pain? No matter what, would you be willing to invest a large amount of time developing this new relationship, or would you want to rush it to perfection, all the while knowing perfection is an illusion?
I ask myself these questions, even as I KNOW my H is still firmly entrenched in the tunnel, the badlands. I believe in him, I believe he will make it through. I hope he will want to try again, and I hope I will want that too. Right now I do, but the future belongs to God, alone, and only He knows the outcome. So I give it all to Him and hope for the best life I can have no matter who is in it.
I wish all who are dealing with reconnection and reconciliation the best life has to offer them, no matter what that looks like. Have faith in and patience with yourselves. You will find happiness, I am certain of that.
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HG--It's a tricky time, and is certainly as difficult, in a different way, than all that comes before.
I'll recommend two books, not written with MLC in mind, but both by well-recognized marriage and infidelity experts. John Gottman released a book last year titled something like The Science of Trust. It's kind of academic, but has a few very practical chapters. I would actually recommend any of his books in putting a marriage back together. The other is by Shirley Glass. I don't know the title, but if you look on Amazon, it was last released in 2004-2005. Both are research based books.
Keep in mind that some of the suggestions can't be done immediately as this is still MLC during reconnection. I personally believe that there is some cross over in what goes on in reconnection and reconciliation. During parts of reconnection one is paving the way for reconciliation to use common terminology.
Just know there will be ups and downs along the way. It takes time.
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Interesting to hear and read a few views/experiences while in reconnection. So much of what I have been linked to in this thread had to do with when reconnection starts. Maybe it's just me...I'm not worried about when it starts or after what stage of MLC reconnection begins...I"m more interested with what to expect when in it..typical struggles, ways to navigate problems that arise...basically more info of what goes on.
I like what LC said:
"Who would you be if you were to end your stand and begin anew with another? Would you expect all the things of the new R that you did of your M, or would you take each day as a new day, learning about this new person in your life, deciding if you were compatible? As your relationship with that new person grew, would you expect them to just know you and tell you all, or would you try to develop healthy communication skills with them, letting them in on your hurt, your anger, your trust issues? Would you have patience with them if they were unsure how to proceed, after they came to understand the depth of your pain? No matter what, would you be willing to invest a large amount of time developing this new relationship, or would you want to rush it to perfection, all the while knowing perfection is an illusion?"
And I believe what Patience said about it being a tricky time.
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I will also reccomend the books by Dr. Willard Harley (recommended by HB to me)
His Needs, Her Needs.
and
Fall in love Stay in Love.
These get into his idea of a Love Bank, and how you should spend 15 hours a week together, doing things, other than sleeping.
Many marriage counselors including MWD/DB recommend dating.
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Thanks for the info OP and Tsu
Frankly ANY relationship I've ever been in has been a whirlwind compared to I guess what "normal" standaards are. There always seemed to be a RUSH and it was on the part of both parties.
My relationship with EXH started as an affair on my part ( my second husband lasted 9 months rebound from first marriage) I really had no intention of the affair becoming a relationship as I knew we had some major problems with the physical aspect. But ExH wouldn't let it go. So here I am 30 years and two kids later going WTF???
I don't know I want things to go a little easier this tip toeing through the tulips in some respects is EXHAUSTING.
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OP, wonderful book!
I highly recommend "His Needs, Her Needs" to anyone in a relationship.
Long Haul, this whole mess is EXHAUSTING.
I strongly feel all standers love their spouses unconditionally.
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http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_touch-and-goes-and-reconnection_reconnection.html
RCR's articles on the topic.
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=190969&page=1
Snitching again from another site, another reconcilliation thread.
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Thanks Tsumani for bring that info over here. It was interesting to read. It also confirms to me that we are in true reconnection, not that I doubted it, but others feel because I'm only 19 months in it's only a touch and go. But the description of reconnection is where we are at...even crossing over to reconcilation as they often overlap. I feel very lucky to have a second chance even though there are no guarentees.
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I have a question and not sure where to post it???
I figured since most of you here have your H's back home and somewhat out of replay
I was wondering how OBVIOUS your H's were about coming home or reconciling.
I totally realize my H is in replay and still with OW but the behaviours of H still wanting to see me and talk to me are just SO obvious...much more obvious than say about a month ago.
So I guess my question is were there things you noticed that were just so obvious that you went ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Thanks everyone for posting links/ suggestions...such a great help even if it is only confirmation what we have is par for the course. :)
Crazy in my case with a CB my h portrayed typical CB behaviour of never straying to far and keeping one foot in both camps (mine more than ow) most of the time.
When my H returned Dec 10 for 5 maths even though he slept here every night he would not say he wanted to be with me...saying he didn't know what he wanted...he would not give up his cave....saying, he was scared he would have no where to live if i asked him to go again.
That now has all gone...he has commitment wants to be here and will do whatever it takes for that to happen...maybe that is the difference between reconnection (which we had in Dec 10) to reconciliation in Dec 11 :)
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Hey CFH
I've been mulling over your question about how obvious the MLCers are about wanting to come home.
My H has, on three different occasions, in the past 6 months, got really agitated with me, and said 'what is it you want Kikki - I haven't heard what you want. Do you want me to get rid of the studio and come home?'
I haven't known how to respond, because I kept thinking - this man needs to be able to ask, if that is what he is doing.
I came across this thread on the DB website, and I'm now wondering, if I've got this all wrong. As the stakes are very high, maybe he doesn't want to make himself too vulnerable by asking?
Here's the link. Scroll down to Tsquared2's response about Men's fear of rejection.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2232233&page=6
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I'm glad you've posted this, hyper. It's more tricky than people think to reconciliate.
My H has been home about a year, but was still undecided for much of that time, and even now will not admit that he's done anything wrong.
Perhaps it would be good if we could start with a list of the difficulties we face. Here's mine:
1. He's home, but there's a pervading doubt: will he go again?
2. He doesn't admit he's done anything wrong, or ever stopped loving me... how do I face this?
3. I get flash backs of things he's said and done. How do I live with it?
4. He's back, he's better (helps out etc.) but I'm less tolerant of behaviours I would have put up with before, such as long periods of not talking to anyone, overworking, lack of affection. Where do I draw the line with what I accept (accepting him for what he is, a workaholic introvert) and what I don't (someone who is self absorbed and doesn't see the hurt he causes)?
I may add more later...
Mx
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Thank you Kikki!!!!!
That was a very good read...exactly what H is doing right now. Little baby steps and reaching out
for fear of the big R word.
I get it and have just wondered in my own sitch how to handle it! Maybe a sweeter, kinder approach will bring them forward more.
Detach, detach, detach and detach some more and then we have to let go and re-attach to them with no expectations little by little and it seems like the re-attaching is for them not so much for us so THEY know that coming home IS an option!
Should I put a big flag on the door- "YOU ARE WELCOME BACK ANYTIME" !!
lol...... :)
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LOL Crazy - this is all so crazy - that might make him run again ;D Balanced with the fear of rejection, he probably needs to feel that he's 'won' you back too - Ugggh! All so confusing.
Glad you found it helpful - I did too - thought it explained a lot
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Ya...a little to much! LOL
I realize fear plays a big part in this but they must get over it somehow!!!
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Kikki-
It looks like a mirror to me.
He's asking you what you want -when he really needs to answer the question himself
I'd reverse the question and ask him what does HE want.
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Thanks Inthis - I should do that.
He seems to be running all over the place at the moment asking people's opinions left, right and centre. It's really out of character for him, as he's usually so private.
What a confused and lost man he is......
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I'm glad you've posted this, hyper. It's more tricky than people think to reconciliate.
My H has been home about a year, but was still undecided for much of that time, and even now will not admit that he's done anything wrong.
Perhaps it would be good if we could start with a list of the difficulties we face. Here's mine:
1. He's home, but there's a pervading doubt: will he go again?
2. He doesn't admit he's done anything wrong, or ever stopped loving me... how do I face this?
3. I get flash backs of things he's said and done. How do I live with it?
4. He's back, he's better (helps out etc.) but I'm less tolerant of behaviours I would have put up with before, such as long periods of not talking to anyone, overworking, lack of affection. Where do I draw the line with what I accept (accepting him for what he is, a workaholic introvert) and what I don't (someone who is self absorbed and doesn't see the hurt he causes)?
I may add more later...
Mx
Mermaid--Something told me to look at this site today. It's been some time since I posted. Even in the beginning our DH's were some what similar in what they said and did. Reading your post today I see still see some similarities, or maybe the similarity is between you and me, because of your questions.
The pervading doubt: I know I was on edge for at least four months after H returned. It was four months after his return that I demanded ALL contact with OW end for good. After that blow-up I was sure he was going to leave. I even asked him if he was going. When he made that decision to come home it was for good as he recently confirmed with me. I'm moving far enough away mentally from the darkest days that I don't recall when in the MLC stages they make that decision (near the end of replay I think). I am of the opinion that many return home when they are still in replay, or at least a winding down of replay, something less energetic than replay. Maybe RCR has a name for this. I think there is some mini-stage at the end of replay but before depression and withdrawal. They aren't ready to fully face and admit their wrong doings yet. It comes in small bits and pieces. I don't know what to call it--a winding down period maybe. I know this continued for nearly a year in my H. As I think back on it, it was probably a good 10 or 11 months before I "really, really" knew and felt confident all of the time that he was going no where. At some point, I told myself that if he left again it was on him. I had done all I could to love him and would survive.
Your second question: the admission comes slowly also. It won't all be at once. See my above theory on this "mini-stage" that some go through. Until they get to and through depression/withdrawal they won't be able to admit it all. Some may take more blame than others.
How do you know he stopped loving you? I'm calling you on that my friend. Even if they say those words, it's not true. I know that the MLCer does continue to love the spouse. They may not be able to see it, but they do.
The flashbacks--Mermaid and all--this takes time and effort. I guarantee that they do lessen, and much of it does not matter at some point. At various points in my threads I detailed some of the ways I put the flashbacks in the past.
As for your last question--this is one only you can answer. I too faced this dilemma. It's a tough one. On one hand we want to love unconditionally and on the other we have some standards. All I can tell you is that you may not yet know the answer, but it will evolve and come over time.
Mermaid--he's moving slowly, but it will come. You will get your answers.
xoxo
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Thanks for posting, Patience. It sounds like you have really moved onto a good point in your story. Yes, our Hs have always had similarities, haven't they?
How do you know he stopped loving you? I'm calling you on that my friend. Even if they say those words, it's not true. I know that the MLCer does continue to love the spouse. They may not be able to see it, but they do.
Strangely, when I was in the pit of despair, I suddenly got a flash of this, out of nowhere. I posted it somewhere on my thread. It kept me going even when everything seemed to be against the survival of our M.
But he did say it. He said a lot of things. Each one cut like a knife. Learning to forget is important, along with self focus and detachment. These tools that we learnt at the beginning of MLC are still important.
Yes, unconditional love is great. But we know now that everything changes with time. People die, they change, they make decisions that go against us. I suppose by the end of MLC, if we have worked on ourselves enough, we get to a point where love is less about attachment and more about agapé...
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http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2480.0