Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Thundarr on April 27, 2012, 06:29:38 AM
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Hey all,
I ran across this yesterday and a few of my L2 buds had read it or read it yesterday. I have a link to the whole book if someone would like me to PM it to them. I'll not share my take on the book itself until a few have had a chance to respond, but I'm really interested to get the female perspective on this not only for my own interests but for research purposes in general. Thanks!
http://womensinfidelity.com/female_midlifecrisis.html
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OK I don't have much to offer but the phrase "women like getting married but not being married" kind of resonated with me. I myself actually like being married, but there are other women I've seen who seem so focused on the "getting" married, I wonder if they ever stop to think about how it's really going to be after they marry.
And I'm not sure where she gets the four-year thing from. I can't recall being that dissatisfied after hitting the four-year mark. Maybe that's for couples with children.
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Thundarr,
I think this book would be interesting because what you linked says this author explains the "why" of all these things. That would be very interesting to read.
I think that this sort of encapsulated version is pretty accurate of both men and women in MLC in many ways. I also think that it is true many, many women want to get married but not be married and there is a huge difference.
I would love to know from anyone who reads this what she says about the "why" of it all because for me, I'm still convinced that its in great part due to being spoiled in general. I think generations before us (again, KNOW that I am generalizing), realized life wasn't going to be one constant thrill ride, one endless parade of validation and that there was nothing abhorant with getting a little older. Our generation has to have constant validation and instant gratification and for my money, that's the reason so many women cheat these days whereas they didn't in previous generations.
But I would like to know what this woman says...
Bon
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Interesting. I guess it might be interesting to know what she says, but I have to say that this is so outside my own experience, both with myself and any friends, that I can't relate. I always liked being married; the being was more important than the 'getting' (indeed, one thing I regret is not putting more thought and effort into the wedding itself....)
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I'm really grateful that you posted this, Thundarr, because it actually gives me insight into the OW for me. I'm trying to take away her power from my mind, and this is helping. I think she's totally going through a big MLC (maybe even worse than my H). And they're all still in limbo, too. A little compassion for her? Maybe. But it always feels good to get confirmation of how much of a fantasy this relationship always is. A fake "out".
And I was another one who wanted to be a wife more than be a bride. Cute yet affordable Vegas wedding with friends was all we needed, and it was an amazing, fun weekend. The life was what we were excited about. Even if we have nothing else, we shared our big dreams. That's worth more to me than a fancy dress.
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I'm with T and L, this is outside my realm of experience for both myself and my friends too.
I really enjoyed being married, and didn't ever fantasize about the dream wedding either.
For me, it was about being with this person that I had chosen to be with.
I certainly didn't start looking around for other men four years into my marriage. I was too busy having babies and renovating a house and running a company.
Would be keen to hear more about it though. Maybe it is a generational thing, and is what is happening with younger women who possibly have been more career driven??
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OK, one thing is MLC and the infidelity and divorce that come with it the other non MLC infidelity and divorce.
As for the many features that have recently come up about the rise in female infidelity I think it has to do with people not being aware of History and how humans have always behave.
Female infidelity has always existed throughout history. It is nothing new, plenty of children were not from the husband (even today many children are not from the husband). Women have always cheated as much as men and they always will. Before it was not openly talked about. Usually it remained a family secret. An indiscretion, being it from husband or wife, was something people were aware could happen and in itself it would not ended a marriage. No one in its right mind, for many millennia, would end a marriage because of an infidelity. A thing we now do all the time.
As for women pushing men for commitment also being presented as something that is part of modern relationships… well, in the past men would have, and want, to commit. A single man was frown upon. Men did not wanted to be unmarried, nor did women. Being married was important and relevant. It is still very important to be a married man or woman in certain parts of the world.
So, what has changed? The biggest change in marriage begun when it passed from a thing that was expect and often fixed, to a case of love/romanticness, in the early/mid XIX century. But it took decades for a marriage of love be the most common one in western society.
The writer of the feature says she had been happily married for 4 years and then started to be bored. Marriages have ups and downs. Now can 4 years count as a long term relationship?... I suppose that depends of ones point of view… In 10 years of marriage (and after 10 together) I have never felt bored of my husband or sexually uninterested in him. But I’ve also never said I would never cheat. We never know if we will or if we will not.
“most of our societal beliefs about females are grossly distorted and many are completely erroneous.” With this I fully agree. But I think the way we few females and their sexuality and behaviour comes from the Victorian and 1950’s views on women. If one takes a look at history it is pretty easy to see that the views many believe do not match historical evidence.
There is no “widespread problem of female infidelity”. Or there is as much or as less has there was centuries or millennia ago. Since it has always existed and it was not less than now, the issue of female infidelity cannot have anything to do with modern life.
The difference, like I said before, is that in the past people would not divorce because of infidelity or because they have felt attracted by someone else. Marriage was one thing, love and sex often another. Sometimes, of course, all of those things would go together.
I had a civil marriage, I never had that period of being a bride, nor the dress or the party. I loved being married.
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No I loved being a “wife”
I was never married so it wasn’t ever about being a bride.
But it stills reminds me of ow.
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This didn't resonate for me, but since two of the OW in my sitch were "friends" of mine for years, I can see both of them in what the author has said.
I was definitely far more interested in a marriage than a wedding and the thought of cheating never held any appeal to me, not only because I loved my husband, but because it's not who I am, regardless. But then again, that makes sense since I am not the one cheating...
In general, we are becoming too much of a "throw away" society, in my opinion. If something requires work, get something easier. If something might need some effort, give it away. If something needs a little fixing or has a bit of wear and tear, just replace it. If it's lost its initial shine and thrill, just throw it out.
Weak, whiny and lazy, in my view. Real life isn't fantasy. Marriage and family requires work and commitment. We are not each the center of the Universe. It is normal to experience highs and lows and to have some non-exciting routines and responsibilities in life. There are more productive ways to deal with that than running and cheating. Geesh. What are we teaching, and doing to, the next generation?
Phoenix
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Phoenix - I agree - what indeed are we teaching to the future generation. It appalls me actually.
Remember Alvin Toffler's 'Future Shock'. I remember my father shaking his head in dismay at what he read in there, and the further demise of society.
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Phoenix, may I ask if those "friends" of yours were married?
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Weak, whiny and lazy, in my view. Real life isn't fantasy. Marriage and family requires work and commitment. We are not each the center of the Universe. It is normal to experience highs and lows and to have some non-exciting routines and responsibilities in life. There are more productive ways to deal with that than running and cheating. Geesh. What are we teaching, and doing to, the next generation?
Phoenix
So, so true - Thank you for posting that!!
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This information really hit home with me. Not for my H and OW but a friend whose D is 28 and has just left her partner of 10 years after living together for 6 years.
She also said she needed time out to think and decide what she wanted for the future. Meanwhile BF is more attentive and caring but she continued to distance herself.
Enter an MLC man at work. He is also looking for happiness and unknown to her BF the affair was 8 months old when she started talking about having a temporary split to think. Immediately BF moved out MLC man moved in. He left his wife and children and they are totally in love, planning a wedding and babies and MLC man isn't even divorced yet! She is willing to move home and live in his city many miles away from her family.
Now here is the interesting part. Her dad had MLC and returned home 18months ago. She was the most vociferous of the children against her dad. Now she doesn't see herself as the other woman and has totally bought into the lies and deceit we see with our spouses. Her MLC man is classic and following the script. She has even used her dad to justify her going off to find happiness :-\
My question is did her dad leaving for OW start to make his D question her life with a longterm partner and then hurl her into a pre midlife crisis?
Another observation. My D23 tells me that all her friends are very worried about getting older and constantly talk about it. When I was 23 I never thought about getting old but was out enjoying life. So are we going to see a lot more of this younger age group male and female leaving marriages and partnerships in the quest for more excitement and happiness? Is this because society has a need for more excitement and quicker gratification for their wants, more so than when we were young and in our 20's. Young people are able to access anything from anywhere now at the push of a button. People strive for eternal youth through surgery etc. Age is seen as a negative. And so we get back to MLC territory again...............
xx
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Phoenix, may I ask if those "friends" of yours were married?
Sadly, Anne, yes. Both women were married. Combined, both were the mothers of four of D's close friends for most of her life. And both women were married to men who were H's "good friends." All three families were also part of the same homeschool group (that I founded ten years ago) and the same social circle of more than 30 families who were a huge, wonderful extended family that celebrated births, birthdays, holidays, vacations, etc. together. The adults had sports teams together and book clubs along with a mother-daughter book club we had been a part of D an my life for more than 9 years. We were there for each other during illness, the deaths of loved ones, life changes, etc. And then, poof!, in an instant that life was gone for D and me. Shattered is not too strong a word, Anne. How any man could troll for adultery partners within his wife's social circle is beyond me, but to go within a group sacred to D and so critical to every aspect of her life. is unfathomable. These children were the siblings she never had. These mothers and fathers were the aunts and uncles she didn't have. This was her social and support system in every way and he destroyed it for her just as she was entering her teen years. What should have been the support system we had during his MLC was torn apart at the foundation--everyone confused, hurt, embarrassed, not sure what to tell their kids so there are all kinds of half-truths and nonsense out there, trying too hard to support all parties which is very hurtful to me and D, etc. In fairness, the group only knows about one woman. The current OW who left her family and, to my knowledge, is still with H. Her H divorced her and it was final in January. Her kids now live with her half-time and my H still lives with a male colleague.
The other OW has been able to keep her secret as I chose not to destroy her family. When I found the evidence of her adultery with my H, is was 19 months after the fact. It appeared to have been shortlived, though no less excusable. It was extremely traumatic for me as it was one-year post BD and she and her family had been D's and my greatest support system. I calmly spoke to her privately, told her what I knew, told her how I felt and told her that after much thought and prayer, I was leaving all the baggage of the lies and betrayal with her. She could deal with that deceit within her own heart and family as I couldn't see how it really benefitted her child or H to destroy their lives and family as mine had been. I told her I was giving her the grace, she and OW were incapable of giving me and I walked away for good. It has been very hard, because her H and I were very close friends. He has no idea what happened as he would not expect this of her in a million years. I'm sure she told him something untrue to cover her tracks. I know she has told mutual friends that I am "paranoid" and now think other women in my group cheated with my H (to give herself an "out" if I ever talk). But no matter. I have remained silent and am allowing the universe to do with her and the sitch what it will. I have very mixed feelings like I have been disloyal to her H in keeping this from him. But from conversations he and I had after my BD, I feel strongly that he would rather not know as long as it is over. These betrayals by spouses are killers, but the additional betrayal of ourselves and our children by men and women we thought of as sisters or brothers and our children trusted like second parents, is a devastation all its own that I wish on no one.
To give some insight about who OW are. In my case, they appeared to be bright, funny, upstanding soccer mom types who adored their families and cared deeply for their friends. One is also a successful academic. It has made it very difficult at times to see these as "affairs down." However, outward appearances are often deceiving. The latter went through terrible trauma as a child when she learned that her parents were both having an affair with her best friend's parents--the next door neighbors. Yep, for years, the parents swapped partners secretly. Eventually, her parents stayed together, but it really messed with her head. She went on to marry too young and almost killed herself when that relationship ended. This is now her second and longest marriage and the one that produced a child. The other and current OW came from an abusive household. Her mother fled in the night with her from a violent father who also became cocaine addicted (as part of a wealthy businessman partying crowd). He had woman after woman and abandoned his daughter. Her mother had a revolving door of men as well. So we see how the sins of the parents visit themselves upon the psyche and development of the child and leave them always searching for ways to fill the void even if it means doing to others what was so painful to them. How naive to think they would find happiness with my equally screwed up H who was undoubtedly vibrating at a very similar (LOW) level as they were.
Ironically, my father did this same MLC number on my mother, sisters and me when I was 11, and disappeared. Notice how I did not follow the path of these Other Women? The difference, I believe, is the stability I grew up with despite my father's absence, the unfailing faith and spiritual connection my mother has, her exemplary role modeling and integrity, and the other strong moral people I had around me. So we cannot lose faith that our children can come out of this more whole than these sad examples.
Sorry for such a long answer, Anne! :)
Phoenix
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We are also teaching the next generation that it is ok to be faithless, to lack character, and to abandon those we love. Vows mean nothing and our own happiness is paramount even when pursuing it destroys the lives of our children and spouse.
What society has become makes me sick and the church for the most part has just gone along with it. The United States is looking more and more like Sodom and Gomorrah and we will reap what we have sown.
The article Thundarr posted is just one aspect( or maybe by-product would be a better word) of the lack of total morality that has permeated our society. May God have mercy on us.
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My two cents worth... women were very suppressed second class citizens until the women's movement gaines ground in the 1970's.... with that, the pendulum swung wildly from oppression to the idea that women could and would "do it all" without the help or input of MEN. This is what my Mother's generation implied, if not taught us.... not only that, but THEIR Mother's were telling them to "have your OWN money, in case your husband cheats or runs off..." which was NOT bad advice, but the church and tv version of families made no room for "running off" though it happened enough, and women and children suffered.
We have had a generation or two of Cosmopolitan magazine... a rag that prepares women to be "liberated" stalkers, LOL!! In the search for equality, EQUILIBRIUM... as WELL as true balance and equality was lost in the guise of "CONTROL over your destiny..." and boy did I learn my lessons well!! Men and women no longer know HOW to communicate OR to commit.... people feel ENTITLED to NEVER FEEL PAIN and to ALWAYS be "happy"!!! We have been fed the propaganda of "Divorce can be good.... the kids are resilient!!" for over 20 years!! It's all a bit fat LIE, BUT, a lot of US, not to mention the 20 and thirty somethings of today GREW UP IN A DIVORCED HOME!! They do NOT have a comparison for their lives.... they had NO choice!! Granted, not every marriage is made in heaven, should be saved, or is best for the family.... BUT, people no longer have role models for marriage and commitment!! There are no articles asking elders "was every year of your 50 year marriage FUN????" No... it's all about "How did you manage to stay married for so long...." and they always say "We were COMMITTED!!!".
Oh, my..... this my soapbox issue. Sorry!!
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Okay, here's my take on the book after reading it and giving it some thought (didn't take much, though).
For one, the "research" that woman does is confounded from the get-go as she states that she is looking to find someone who feels as she does. The fact that she finds so many who feel the same way should not be a surprise to anyone as it's human nature to agree and also to seek out those with the same viewpoints. This is especially true if you feel guilty about something you're doing (ring any bells here?).
Secondly, the sampling size of the respondents is way, way, way too small to be representative of the general population. She interviewed 122 women and 78 men? A whopping 200 peope in which to make a generalization about society as a whole? And one would have to question how she went about choosing who to question and where she found them. If you were to poll 200 people at a Yankees game then you would probably find that Joe Torre was the best manager in baseball history and that Boston sucks. Really representative of society as a whole there.
Third, the manner in which she gathered her "research" was a confound in and of itself as she told the people she questioned they would remain anonymous, but by definition of asking them face to face their anonymity was blown (to her at least). Any kind of reliable research would have involved a written self-report questionnaire with blind submissions and no identifying factors.
I could go on and on, but the end result is that anyone who has actually done research and/ or had to study journals and research articles (and believe me, I've had my share) would instantly recognize this as self-serving drivel. This woman is looking for justfication for herself and coming to the conclusion that society oppresses female sexuality and that causes women to cheat. Too many blatant assumptions and outright fabrications to warrant any type of serious consideration.
Do yourself a favor and delete after reading, if you waste even that much of your life. I'll never get that hour back.
Peace.
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Phoenix, Thank you so much for your reply and for sharing your situation. I cannot imagine what you have been going through. OW1 was an acquaintance from our cultural circle but she was not a friend, let alone a best/close friend. She lived hundreds of quilometers away and would be on the big city like each 3 or 4 months. Until she and husband got public and she starting turning up every week. But except once, I never saw them in any social function I attended.
We do not have children so nothing similar from what you have to face happened.
I always find it weird that married women can discart their children, marriage, husband for a man that has leaved his own wife, children marriage.
LG, I think you are right about the one or two Cosmopolitan generations. Add to that all the lads magazines that have been coming up in the past couple decades and we are in perfect “damn marriage and hard times” territory.
justasking, when I was 23 it has never occurred to me to be worried about getting old. There was life to be lived. Age is seen as negative in western society. We have the cult of youth and it is leading us to absurd things. However, this young people that worry about age at 23 are our kids, and our friends kids. What sort of people have we been raising? I think we need to think about it.
As for your friends D28 not sure if she was hurled into a MLC. Not all people that break with their partner are in pre midlife crisis or MLC. Funny how they never see themselves as the OW/OM…and how they always have the feeling things are going to be different with them. I have no idea why a 28 years old woman, with a long term partner, would prefer a married man that have left his wife and kids…
Maybe people end up repeating the most negative thing their parents have done. Maybe the more they were against a certain behaviour of their parents the more they end up repeating it.?...
My FIL always had other women since he was in his early 20’s. When I meet my husband, then boyfriend, FIL had a permanent OW. She had been around for a few years when we meet, she remained around until 2 years ago. FIL divorced MIL some 10 years ago, after he already been living with OW for years.
Husband totally disapprove of his dad behaviour, was deeply hurt by FIL ways and always said he would never, ever, done the same. That he would never got another woman. He did. Albeit only in MLC.
Thundarr, thanks for your share on the book. It really does not seem to have been done with a very scientific research approach.
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Well that kind of rings true to me. Not for my W in her late 20s when we got together, but certainly in the lead up to BD.
The women here can view this anyway they wish, but we men are put in a very difficult position in my opinion. Women, initially at least, want us to be everything to them - friend, lover, soul-mate, husband, father, life-companion. There are the stereotypical complaints that men can't cut it in long-term relationships and by implication that women are the only ones that can do long-term relationships.
But what happens when the woman gets the man of her dreams - who ticks all those boxes - has the white wedding, gets the beautiful home, the children and still isn't satisfied or content (or as the author puts it: they feel they should be happier)? Resentment, bitterness and MLC, that's what happens. Yes, the sex drive dive bombs (especially after children), boredom with domesticity and responsibilities, difficulty accepting aging and body changes (if only women would accept that their husbands love them the way they are!). My W was certainly 'awakened' by her EA with the ex-bf from 30 years ago. It wasn't physical but the text messaging was definitely along the lines of, "he's my soul-mate, maybe I made the wrong choice all those years ago, he might just be the answer, he makes me feel wanted, etc, etc, blah, blah..."
Just my two penneth.
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This just came into my inbox.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103524537/The-Crisis-of-the-Disappearing-Dad-The-Six-Hidden-Reasons-Men-Leave-Their-Families
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Just read this..... in our case, my husband and I practiced "attachement parenting" to the nth degree... against ALL advice from peers and even some pediatricians.... it felt NATURAL TO US!!!
Stage 5: The More Successful the Mothering, the More the Dad Pulls Away.
Both mother and father do everything they can to help Mom make and maintain a goodconnection with the baby. But for Dad the more successful the connection, the greater loss hefeels. Not only does he feel the loss of the love and affection his wife had previously given tohim, but it stirs up feelings from the loss he felt growing up without enough love from hismother and father. And since these feelings are generally unconscious, he becomes more andmore depressed, irritable, resentful, and withdrawn.
“Ironically, the better the mother is able to nurture her child, the more likely the father will
be to re-experience his childhood wounding because he sees even more of what he
didn’t get,
And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife??? In my husband's case, he was absolutely abandoned by both parents in most ways, though they would disagree... in fact, DIVORCE has this effect on children... still the question remains...... how could he leave his own children? And HOW can he lie to their faces about where he is going when he knows FULL WELL that THEY know he is going to the adultery partner's?
For me, I gave OUR children what he desired for them.... a NURTURING BABYHOOD AND CHILDHOOD!!! Their I.Q.'s are high.... their social skills and comfort level is high.... they are well rounded, great kids and wonderful acheivers.... very, very grounded and secure...... EXCEPT..... HE has rocked our world... pulled the rug out from under us.... UNDONE the very security he wanted to GIVE HIS KIDS that HE didn't get!!! Taken away HIS nurturing participation.... STOLEN it from them.... perpetuating his pain into their lives.... when does it stop???
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LG - I second everything that you just said. That struck a chord with me too.
I even remember my H's first bout of mild crisis a few years earlier, and he admitted that he was jealous of our boys. I had no idea what was going on with him, and just thought what a selfish, immature g*t he had turned into. I couldn't understand it.
And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife???
It's all more than depressing isn't it. I can't help looking at all men and wonder what is going on inside their heads these days. I'm sure that's a little unfair, but this thing does take its toll.
Apologies to the extraordinary men here on the forum, I know you are a different breed altogether.
I'm with you on the fact that who the heck really cares - these people have chosen to leave and inflict unbelievable pain on those that love them the most. How selfish!
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Wow,
This is exactly my H. He was only raised by his mother. His father was present, but only for the $$. His father didn't want kids and when they found out they were going to have a kid, he told his wife....if you keep it, it is your responsibility. He never held, helped or did anything for his son if not sign the checks for his schooling and take him along on business trips....he was never a father. My H always had a bad relationship or rather, no relationship, with his dad. He said he wanted his kids to have a young and good dad (something he didn't have). And look at him now, abandoning a newborn and an 18 month old! So....what do I tell him "at least your dad stuck around....you are worst then him". He and everyone always commented on how great a mother I was....just like this paragraph states....this stirred up his own feelings of loss....well....there is nothing to be done with that....he will never get over that....the cycle is not going to stop.
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LG...Well said.
I feel the same as you all have posted above.
My H HATES his father who passed away 3 years ago. Blames my dad, who passed away 7 years ago, for making me the sort of wife who doesn't know how to love a husband as a wife should.
Won't speak to his mother or sister.
Told me I am a great mother but then says I use the kids as pawns.
When they were younger, also told me he felt left out and was jealous. This was at the same time he complained that I woke him when I got up to feed them at night and so I ended up in the spare bed or the couch for much of the time we had the 4 kids. I thought it was temporary but ............
I have felt he wanted me to be his mummy (buy him expensive gifts, hug him when he was sick, be the nurse and bring everything to him while caring for 3 boys) but now he also hates me like he hates her.
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Just read this..... in our case, my husband and I practiced "attachement parenting" to the nth degree... against ALL advice from peers and even some pediatricians.... it felt NATURAL TO US!!!
Stage 5: The More Successful the Mothering, the More the Dad Pulls Away.
Both mother and father do everything they can to help Mom make and maintain a goodconnection with the baby. But for Dad the more successful the connection, the greater loss hefeels. Not only does he feel the loss of the love and affection his wife had previously given tohim, but it stirs up feelings from the loss he felt growing up without enough love from hismother and father. And since these feelings are generally unconscious, he becomes more andmore depressed, irritable, resentful, and withdrawn.
“Ironically, the better the mother is able to nurture her child, the more likely the father will
be to re-experience his childhood wounding because he sees even more of what he
didn’t get,
And now, this all makes sense. In the end, who the hell cares??? I DID NOT LEAVE!!! I wanted to, but I DIDN'T!!! I feel empathy for a depressed person..... because they aren't in their right minds... but I also wonder.... isn't there ANYONE out there who makes a good partner as an adult and doesn't need "Mommy-ing" from his wife??? In my husband's case, he was absolutely abandoned by both parents in most ways, though they would disagree... in fact, DIVORCE has this effect on children... still the question remains...... how could he leave his own children? And HOW can he lie to their faces about where he is going when he knows FULL WELL that THEY know he is going to the adultery partner's?
For me, I gave OUR children what he desired for them.... a NURTURING BABYHOOD AND CHILDHOOD!!! Their I.Q.'s are high.... their social skills and comfort level is high.... they are well rounded, great kids and wonderful acheivers.... very, very grounded and secure...... EXCEPT..... HE has rocked our world... pulled the rug out from under us.... UNDONE the very security he wanted to GIVE HIS KIDS that HE didn't get!!! Taken away HIS nurturing participation.... STOLEN it from them.... perpetuating his pain into their lives.... when does it stop???
Wow LG, I could have written this. Except my spouse does not apparently have an alienator.
You took the words right out of my head.
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120924175209.htm
You can find different forms of the same study all over.
I definitely see this in my sitch.
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Interesting. I see it too. Silly me, I tried to hint that antidepressants might help H with his anger and irritability. The response I got is that he's not angry and not depressed. Or so he thinks.
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Oh, mine said in his last 'nasty' letter that he was absolutely not depressed or having a mid-life crisis....
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In my opinion, most people do not want to admit to any depression or 'mental illness' whatsoever. No matter what people say or do, there is a stigma against it and no matter how often an anti-depressant is pushed as 'normal' the people with depression feel an incredible loss of self eteem to have this. I also do not trust the chemical changes in the brains that anti-depressants do. I do not believe one should change brain chemicals with toxins but instead change it internally or with food choices.
That being said, there is a huge stigma to say you are depressed or anxious. I am not surprised that guilt or depression etc are underidentified and not admitted to.
Frankly, I also think bad economies in addition to aging and questioning life choices leads people to feel like their life or their choices were bad. I think some people blame people and some blame society and some just try to ignore it by pretending it doesn't exist. Heck. I made the worst decision in my 20s to pick the field I did when I really wanted another. (It was part of the sexism back then when there were 'womens' jobs' or 'mens' jobs.' However, I never regret marrying my H even though there have been times when I am sure he regrets marrying me!
Regardless, I say that because that is an example of regret that might lead me to feeling depressed. My H has his own issues or regrets. I pray to God that I am not on his regret list, even though I think I am and that tought is depressing!
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Is a competitive person or a 'perfectionist' more likely to experience MLC? Would this also lead to them not admitting they are depressed or guilty feeling?
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I don’t know… around here it has become more and more common to people to admit they are/have been depressed or have a condition like bipolarity.
NA, the brain chemicals are already changed/altered when someone is depressed, bipolar or has any other mental illness. Of course not all med for mental illness are anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds. A bipolar person will not be levelled without meds no matter how much their lives are quiet and their food choices healthy. Same for a very depressed person. Those alone will not do. There is no problem with the med themselves, there is a problem in wanting to use the same med on everyone/the same way. It does not work. When Prozac was popular most doctors would go for it. My husband cannot take Prozak.
Psychiatry should always be tied to neurology, blood and other tests should always be required. Each person is a person, the treatment has to be slightly different according to situation. Of course a life and food change can help a depressed person but that is not enough. And, for example, for bipolarity or schizophrenia psychology/therapy do not work. Their cause is not behavioural, it is neurological.
How is a depressed person going to change it internally? They are not even capable of have a straight thought…
See no problem with regretting something we may have done. It will prevent us from doing it again. Only see a problem when the regret prevents from moving forward.
Early last year me and the marriage were on husbands number one regret list. Did not found it depressing because I already knew that was part of script. And, anyway, I also regret had married him, so, no problem. It does not makes me feel depressed, it happened, that is all.
Frankly, I also think bad economies in addition to aging and questioning life choices leads people to feel like their life or their choices were bad. I think some people blame people and some blame society and some just try to ignore it by pretending it doesn't exist.
Fully agree.
Is a competitive person or a 'perfectionist' more likely to experience MLC? Would this also lead to them not admitting they are depressed or guilty feeling?
Don't know about the first. My husband said many times, even before the crisis hit full mode, that he was depressed. And, in moments of clarity, he had apologise for all he had done, so I think that, even if in desguise, is a show of guilt. It wasn't. of course, the heartfelt remorse MLCers have latter on the crisis.
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NA - That describes my H to a T. And while I have always acknowledged and addressed my bouts of depression, he has never "gotten" it and just wanted it to go away for me. So, I figured it out on my own, talked with healthcare professionals, embraced it and moved on (with drugs when needed, with diet and/or lifestyle changes when needed). So....I am thinking he thinks it just doesn't apply to him - have thought that all along. He VEHEMENTLY denied the MLC - even after our counselor said outloud to him that it was classic MLC. H sees that he is unique and special and this has only happened to him...oh dear....he IS unique and special, but not in this way.
I have even advocated for mental illness to be more accepted. Our son has Asperger's and I work (in HR) supporting this field. So H has done A LOT to push this off and not applying to him. LOOK INWARD BABE!! That's what I want to say....
Oh...AND....the other thing I want to say is NO ONE ELSE CAN MAKE YOU HAPPY...that is a CHOICE he has to make.
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http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16619375-dad-kills-estranged-wife-then-self-at-daughters-16th-birthday-party?lite
Horrific story, but given the fact they are right around the right age and JUST celebrated their 20th anniversary really makes me suspicious. A couple years ago this would never have crossed my mind, but so sad for the kids either way.
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Yea, agree with you Thundarr, everytime I hear about a D or separation involving folks in their 40s, i think MLC, and when I find our more about it, I'm usually right!
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Yea, agree with you Thundarr, everytime I hear about a D or separation involving folks in their 40s, i think MLC, and when I find our more about it, I'm usually right!
Yep, all that and Peri-menopause kicking in as well at the same time. I'm really surprised it does not happen more often.
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http://www.upworthy.com/a-couple-gave-their-son-a-cute-little-puppy-so-why-am-i-sorta-creeped-out?c=ufb1
Pretty gobsmacking that this ad had to be created, due to the extent of the problem.
Think we need to create a similar one re family/spouse abandonment.
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Agreed. :( Just looking at this, I have no clue why I thought my husband's FOO, who went through animals like this after the cute wore off like they were disposable paper towels, would have any problem at all discarding me. After all, love, commitment, and loyalty aren't different based on whether you have two or four legs.
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This is a very sad truth. Volunteering at the animal shelter and fostering abandoned and rejected dogs was one of the ways I GAL right after bd. We , dogs , myself and my kids were kindred spirits sharing a similar experience. it helped is to heal. :)
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Agreed. :( Just looking at this, I have no clue why I thought my husband's FOO, who went through animals like this after the cute wore off like they were disposable paper towels, would have any problem at all discarding me. After all, love, commitment, and loyalty aren't different based on whether you have two or four legs.
Sadly, that is a very chilling reality to accept Ready. :(
This is a very sad truth. Volunteering at the animal shelter and fostering abandoned and rejected dogs was one of the ways I GAL right after bd. We , dogs , myself and my kids were kindred spirits sharing a similar experience. it helped is to heal. :)
What a great idea Jagger. :)