Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Writingmom on August 01, 2010, 07:03:33 PM
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Many comments have been made about MLCers and their carelessness with money. I have been blessed enough to not see or feel the effects until recently. As the owner of the family company, H has been able to keep his paychecks coming to me while spending cash from the side on OW.
However, our savings account has slowly been draining and I see no end in sight. When it's gone, I don't know what will happen. He didn't buy a convertible, he bought a big house that he's only in 2-4 days a week, if that. He travels back and forth (4 hours away) to be with OW, takes her/kids out to eat at nice places, buys her jewelry...all of this VERY unlike him. He's always been wise with money! Now with two mortgage payments, his income is not covering our expenses. The D settlement will not be pretty for him, either.
My question is: How does the realization that finances are dwindling/gone affect your MLCer's? Is it more reason to run? Are they already in debt and just make it worse? Do they sneak?
I have been a SAHM for the last 15 years. Am looking for work but not many leads right now. I am trying not to freak out, but want to be aware of what may be around the corner. If he can't make sane decisions right now, how can I expect even what is owed in a settlement to come to me? Especially when he still BLAMES.
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Check with a lawyer before getting a job. In my state, a woman who is a SAHM gets more money in a divorce settlement. You can always get a job after.
Just check with your lawyer to be sure.
And my H seems to just be so immature that he thinks any money left after paying for his "bills" is HIS money.
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My husband is pretty careful with the money, but I did see that he blew about $1000 playing online poker. I had encouraged him in the past, but not to THAT extent. Our savings is dwindling. He has mentioned it. I'm a SAHM with a part-time job and he looks to me to blame for the difference, but I'm not going to do anything while OW might benefit. I think he uses his expense account as much as possible to take her out, the same as he used to do with me and the kids. It HAS to cost him SOMETHING, although he claims he doesn't spend anything on her. Still, if he is staying at a hotel in Connecticut all weekend with her, money is being spent on meals, etc. I think he thinks of that as living expenses as "you have to eat" so it's the same as groceries. I cannot see his credit card statements, so who knows what he's spent on her with those, if anything. He doesn't use the debit card for anything other than cash withdrawals in her town, so I can't track what he spends on. It's gross and we will suffer for it in the end. She will be the reason we can't buy a house. I hope he realizes it and hates her for it some day soon. Yeah, HATES HER for it, even though he is responsible, I still hope he HATES THAT HE SPENT IT trying to be with her. Just like if you spend too much money on a pair of shoes and then hate looking at them and never wear them because it was an indulgence that reminds you of your weakness. I hope he hates her. How can I get over that? It is a huge obstacle for me.... working on it.
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I immediately had my H taken off our joint accounts after I asked him to leave. I used his guilt to get this done quickly - he had no problem taking his name off the accounts.
My H also has credit cards, but in his name only. He had horrible credit when we got married; mine was excellent. I spent years building his credit up; now his is better than mine! He did say to me a few weeks ago that he knows I worked hard to get his credit up and he wouldn't do anything to jeapordize that. Cut to next scene, I get the mail the other day and there is a brand new credit card for him! Ugh!
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When you think of her, visualise something else, very non threatening, and that makes you smile. Like a small plastic expressionless doll stuck in one position. Then think of another thought whenever your brain goes to the doll, such as spending lots of money on shoes or something that will lead your mind to a different place. That way, you will linger for as short of time as possible and end up in a good place for you.
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whoops - wrong thread sorry
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Hahaha - SR, I was wondering what you were talking about. :o
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Writingmom,
They will do anything, even the unthinkable, to get their hands on money.
My H options are running out and fast, as he has spent his way into a mess.
He can' t get any more credit, and can't pay for the credit he has already, but is still paying out for holidays abroad and weekends away etc. At some point the mney runs out.
They can't run forever, it just takes some longer than others to work out the messed up.
Trouble is, could we ever trust them with money again.
My H is in that much debt now, I am not sure I could.
HUGS
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Wow. Interesting. As if the affair isn't bad enough, they spend lavishly on this lifestyle trying to present an image that isn't even accurate! I wonder for some if the financial bottoming out will be a wake up call as much as relational bottoming out with OW. Probably not or it would have hit some of them by now! Thanks for the feedback.
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When you think of her, visualise something else, very non threatening, and that makes you smile. Like a small plastic expressionless doll stuck in one position. Then think of another thought whenever your brain goes to the doll, such as spending lots of money on shoes or something that will lead your mind to a different place. That way, you will linger for as short of time as possible and end up in a good place for you.
My very wise, wonderful, emotionally intelligent friend said to me right away when I told her everything that was going on last year...... "Buggy, She's his chocolate cake. His credit card. Think of her as chocolate cake." Now that was something I could get and I like to visualize this every once in awhile for a laugh. I mean if I was depressed, hated my job and had all the MLC head stuff going on and I was walking down the hall passing chocolate cake. Well that would be hard to resist. Not an excuse or a justification. Just a better understanding of things on my level. You also must understand that I've been a SAHM for the past 8 years :o So now when my head gets wrapped in the OW drama I use this as a mantra "She's chocolate cake. She's chocolate cake. She's chocolate cake." ::)
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Lolz, Buggy, and what does chocolate cake look like on the bottom of your shoe if you dropped it on the floor?
I'm not being nice here, sorry. Truly I am a nice person. 8)
And WM, interesting thought you put in my head. Not that it's a huge revelation or anything, just not something that I have thought on before. That's that the affair is such a "fantasy" world that even the finances are fantasy.
My H is spending hundreds each week while we're filing bankruptcy. She has no idea, but I've thought and a great, insightful friend has said that she's using him... imagine if she knew there was nothing there to use?
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Does anyone know if child support/spousal support comes out of the gross or net pay? What prevents someone from socking money into their 401 K if it's net?
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All assets are considered including contributions to a 401 k. Your attorney will ask for a paycheck stub and adjust finances accordingly. Now, if the situation comes to head with my w and I, we will not have much to divide other than a percentage of my retirement because the debt it too high and we are upside down in the mortgage. I probably can get her to walk and keep the kids if I push it hard enough.
Your h has his neck in a noose and it is very tight. He has very few options and his actions are only helping you in the long run. You are doing fine. (((Hugs))) Keep the NC going and all communication with him should go through your attorney.
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After meeting with an attorney this week, I found out that my H could file for spousal support :o :o :o
That's what I get for taking a second job to increase our family income.
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Still even if he is the one "abandoning the marriage and marital home"....do you make more than him? Luckily with substituting I can hold out a bit because it's temporary and day by day...it's the ideal for me right now. If I prevent him from seeing the kids the only thing left to hurt me and HIS CHILDREN with is finances...but based on his actions I wouldn't put that past him...really :o
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In some states, that does not matter at all. I am out here in CA and my w could take me to the cleaners. If I were in Utah, I could take her to the cleaners because of the affair and her treatment of the kids. It really sucks that we live in a society that will put you in jail for kicking a dog, but will rewrd you with money for having an affair and abandoning your family.
Makes you wonder where our priorities are.
(((Hugs)))
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Buggy, only an attorney can answer your question.
That being said, I'd be surprised if any attorney would admit that judges don't look kindly on abandonment of little kids (nurse that baby in court if you have to...) adultery and getting another married woman pregnant! They can say the law is the law, but judges ultimately have some leeway and your husband looks like the worst kind of jerk.... Jerry Springer all the way, so I think you can probably count on getting as much as they can possibly give you under the ugly circumstances.
Now, THAT being said.... in the words of my Grandmother - "don't borrow trouble". Stop obsessing over things that haven't happened yet.
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Still even if he is the one "abandoning the marriage and marital home"....do you make more than him?
Not sure what you mean, Buggy. Just looking at straight earnings, I make more than he does. I guess it doesn't matter that my student loan is almost $200 more than his payment each month.
The attorney I saw, said PA is a 50/50 state. Assets and liabilities will be split down the middle. Spousal support can be sought by the person whose earnings are less.
Here I am trying to figure out who to refinance my home to be able to remain on only my income and had never even thought about having to pay spousal support. She did say with the difference only being a few thousand, he would probably not even bring it into the equation.
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To all,
Something that I have been wondering about.
Does your MLCer still support the family financially?
Has he/does he keep up with his responsiblities regarding bills and such?
I am trying to get an understanding regarding the financial responsbility end of this.
My H still puts his check into our joint account. (I have a separate account for my check, that he cannot access). He takes an agreed upon amount out each week. With the exception of the cell phone bill (I had been checking the usage - so he took that over 3 months ago) - I take care of paying all our bills - between my check and the amount he leaves in the joint account.
I think that my H is at the point where he is pretty broke. He had to ask me a few weeks ago for funds to fix his car.
This is strange - as there were adequate fund in the joint account (that he can access). He wouldn't/shouldn't have had to ask me for anything.
My H has always had money/spending issues. I always took care of our finances.
I almost think that he is purposely keeping himself from being in control of our money - as I don't think he trusts himself. I also think he uses this issue to gain sympathy from his parents - as they think that "He has nothing. I took his home, his money, and everything from him." It fits into his "poor me" persona.
I am curious how the LBS and MLCers handle the "Money Matters"
L
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My H insisted on paying for everything when he left and even asked me to give him all of the bills, saying I should not have to deal with it.
I'm an accountant and I have always handled our finances. I did not give the bills to my H. I sent him a spreadsheet each month outlining what I needed money for. Sept-Dec he was great about making sure I had the money. Last month he got behind.
I have decided that I will no longer ask him for money. He's responsible for my rent and I will direct the landlord to him if it is not paid, but otherwise I will only pay the bills associated with the children and myself. I will no longer be sucked into his drama. However, I believe my H needs to find out for himself about the finances and the consequences of not being responsible. He failed to give me money for the health insurance last month. His health insurance was cancelled. I told him straight-forward when he failed to provide enough money that the health insurance would be cancelled on x date.
I also beleive that one of my H's issues is money. His parents and ex-wife used money to control him. I refuse to play into it.
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Let's see........when my xH left me (year ago) he took care of that months bills and then insisted that I start up my own account (he already had) and split the money we had collected together. He even stated that I could have half even though he didn't feel like I "contributed" half. Really? I had a retirement pay and regular pay which went into our joint accounts just as he did........AND he controlled ALL the finances. I didn't argue with him over it because in his first marriage his wife had total control. From what I gathered, treated him like a child, giving him an allowance and then questioning everything he spent his money on. I felt that had to be degrading for him as a man. My xH was always very good with handling the finances so I didn't have any problems with it. He spent ALL his "half" within 6 months of leaving me........buying all kinds of "stuff" for himself and OW. Later, after he broke up with OW he told me that he regretted it (her) and knew she only wanted money from him. He did a lot of stupid things in the first 6 months. My xH talked about the money a lot in the beginning after BD........acting as if he was the only one who worked/earned anything. I really resented being treated like that. I'm glad we split the finances quick though.
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I merged this thread in with an older one that we had on this subject, I hope that is OK but gives you some more insight.
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OP,
Thanks.
I should have looked for an older thread before I started this one.
I didn't join this Community until September.
Thanks,
L
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Writing Mom,
I would start protecting yourself as I doubt that the funds will keep coming. Do not assume that your financial security is on his radar.
My 2 cents.
FTT
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ANy one no if an LBS is responsible for credit card debt acquired after seperation? I live in PA and there is no legal seperation. A divorce has been filed. Would I be responsible for the credit he has accrued since leaving
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Hey Bugs,
It probably depends on the State that you live in.
In California, the LBS is not responsible for any credit card debt acquired after filing for legal separation or divorce. (OK - Please remind me why I have not filed for legal separation????)
L
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NJ follows the same rules: once the filing for D has been made, each person is responsible for their own debts accrued after filing process kicks off, and the "Discovery Phase" (the first round of documents due to the court/lawyers after the D filing) backs that up by only requiring financial positions as of the D filing date. My xH bought a brand new car, took a $34,000 loan three weeks after leaving, and the court awarded him with sole responsibility for payment of the full loan amount. Oops, too bad!
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I don't know what kind of debt he created before he filed but he left in June and there is proof of this because he changed his address. I do know that he had a credit card, solely in his name, that he was making larger payments on and that he took out a credit card for a retainer. I'm hoping the seperation date will count as we don't have legal seperation in PA. I'll have to talk to my L
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Courts do look at dates and debts. For example, one month prior to filing for banruptcy, I max out every single one of my cards will be seen as not good.
If after you h moved out, he should be held accountable for debts he has accrued. That is why you need to set the date he moved out of the home. Then the items he purchased did not enhance you or your home.
In my situation, she would freak if she found out how much she would have to pay including half of my student loans Hahahahahahahaha
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Yes
He is the moron who set the date by changing his address right away and stating it in a Lawyer letter that I have. Funny you mentioned this ready I was just talking to my sis about it today but if the divorce goes through I think he should be responsible for half of my grad loan as through our marriage we paid down his college debt and I expected that I would be supported in a double income for my marriage. So perhaps this might be a possiblity. Plus I want spousal until my youngest starts school because I surrendered 8 years of income growth to raise my family which was a mutual decision and I want to be supported in the familiy decision we made...nothing to do with marriage...and everything to do with bussiness.
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You might be eligible for spousal until the youngest turns 18. Now there´s some reality pie.
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Really? Don't you mean child support? I could get spousal for that long. I'm going for the gusto baby. Not to punish but to protect myself and the kids. Finances are just going to get tighter with him as the baby is coming. So I've made sure to get money for summer camps beforehand. Kid activities will be part of the D settlement so I just have to negotiate now. He's been cooperative with all of this...as HE SHOULD be.
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A copy and paste
Since spousal support laws are state laws, they all differ, but generally these same factors can be found throughout most states, as you can see from our sample statutes: the standard of living maintained during the marriage; the occupations of the ex-spouses during the marriage; the need of the recipient; the ability to pay of the payor; the recipient’s earning potential and assets; the recipient’s ability to acquire education and training; the age of the ex-spouses; the health of the ex-spouses; and the skills of the recipient.
Fault, as noted above and as indicated in our sample statutes, is generally not a factor in an order for spousal support. In some states, however, the judge may still consider it. Your lawyer can advise you on this.
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Great thanks FTT!
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I found another source that said that spousal support could go for as long as the length of the marriage. Even no-fault states can take into account adultery when figuring spousal support so don´t assume that in PA it won´t matter.
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Buggy,
I don't know about spousal support, but being a fellow-PA-er, I can tell you that the person who is the primary holder on the account is the one that shows up on the credit report.
I am trying to get a re-fi......H refused to help, so I am trying to do it on my income alone. Because all the cards are in my name, even though he is a secondary user, the debt to income on the credit report is all on my rating. It doesn't matter that he is (hopefully) going to pay half, it is still impacting me greatly.....to the tune of taking out a 10-year longer loan just to get the refinancing.
So frustrating....
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Luckily a large majority of our credit card debt are on cards that are only in his name. The credit card companies told me I am not liable for it although they were used during the marriage to tie up loose ends because we lived off one income but the reality is that I am not attached to them credit wise. It might affect my credit report.
Still I am trying to get an assumption or headed in that direction for the house. My mortgage company said it's a change of life event and the same loan could be transferred to one of the spouses...with the same rate and everything. I have time to figure this out but this might be one option or refinancing. I only have support as income currently so hoping for a job to give me boost as the loan is not unaffordable on one income.
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I have an appointment with an attorney in 2 weeks "just in case". New to all of the forums but I too am from PA. Frorm what I have been told any debt acquired (and this is in PA only because we have a basic child support calculator unlike a lot of states, we follow a specific formula, and temporary alimony until divorce and assets are finalized) during the marriage for marital purposes, regardless of who held the card is considered marital debt, unless proven otherwise and the amount comes out of any assets. Even though PA doesn't have a legal separation you can still have an agreement drawn up (which I may do) just for this purpose and if you seek child support during this time. That way the date is clear and there was something about being able to go ahead with a divorce after certain time stipulations, but I didn't really pay attention to that part because I don't think it will apply to me and I figured the attorney I've contacted will review that. I'm having a hell of a time with this, a stay at home mom, who did work part time and husband is at least now seeing psychiatrist and on meds for anxiety, depression and paranoia. Really new to this, moved out last week, but erratic behavior, causing me to lose temper, since December but other signs long before, like 3 years... I'm so exhausted and hacking into a small retirement, fees be damed, to pay for attorney.
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While no one wants to consider divorce or any of the ugliness, the fact is, it can get ugly. There were several things I screwed up, so I thought I might start a thread to keep other people from making the same mistakes I made.
1) Open your own individual account immediately. I can't qualify for a mortgage based on my income alone--I need my support order to be counted, but they require one year of regular payments to an individual account. He opened his own account and made transfers to our joint account, but that does not count since technically he had access to that money.
2) Cancel joint credit cards and get an individual one asap. I actually did this right since I always maintained my own credit lines and I was a business owneer. I still have a stellar credit score, but most women do not after divorce.
2) Make sure you get him to make YOU the beneficiary of his life insurance. I also can't qualify for a mortgage without a guarantee on his payments. He had a heart attack in all this mess, so I can no longer get a new policy on him and I did not think to force him to make me the beneficiary of the policy that we bought together.
3) Know that there is a thing called an "elective share" in most states. Regardless of what the spouse states in their will, the surviving spouse is entitled to a portion of all assets after death. In my state it is 1/3. So, no matter what is in the will, the spouse can claim a portion. This is significant if you are not yet divorced or if your ex remarries. My ex does not understand this. He wants me to make him the beneficiary of all my assets if I die before him, but doing so makes her able to claim at least a third of them when he follows me. And depending on what debt they incur, she could get ALL my assets if I were to make him the beneficiary. Also, my attorney told me it was no use drafting a new will until the divorce was finalized because he could claim his elective share and tie up everything forever, so it was in my best interest to get things settled.
4) Seek legal and financial advice right away. I am in a great position because I did own a business and I had an attorney and accountant at my disposal immediately. There are so many things to consider, and you have to know immediately that monster may not have shown him/herself yet, but he could at any minute and you need to be prepared.
Just a thought and a warning because I did make mistakes that will cost me forever... Lisa
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This is a very good thread LL,
My tips would be:-
1. if you have money phobias or are unable to manage money then get help (really quickly) to learn to manage on a budget and deal with any 'issues' you have
2. take a snapshot of all life assurance, assets and debts at a particular point in time - an spreadsheet listing what and where it is and who it belongs to is good enough - you may need to review it during the process
3. have a 'vision' for your future fiscal life - then you'll know what you are aiming for and whether your actions are taking you towards or away from that goal
4. in the UK State pension provision is poor and we may have individual private pensions which become viable at 55/60/65 years of age - we all hope we'll live that long but you need to ensure that your pension provision is taken care of and doesn't rely on the 'goodwill' of your then exH to bestow his pension on you
5. if you have young children then consider their longer term educational needs and what provision can be made in the divorce for such things
6. I also ensured the watches which my husband had acquired during our marriage would go to our children upon his death - they are worth a lot of money and I didn't trust him to leave them to our children in his will
7. ask for confirmation of wills/life assurance etc which was agreed during the divorce proceedings actuallyget put in place
8. aim for a 'clean break' as much as possible - I couldn't stomach the thought of having to renegotiate things in the future - but my exH is particularly angry and aggressive and is terrible with money....
9. have 'notes of interest' placed on any life assurance/pension policies which you/your children are beneficiaries - so if they get cancelled or payments are missed you are made aware at the earliest opportunity
This is such an important area as research has shown time and time again that women suffer worse financially in the long term after a divorce.
As you say LL, we don't want to consider these things but it is a sad reality that we may face this at some point.
P
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