Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: ember on June 28, 2012, 09:52:38 PM
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This is sort of a hi-jack off of Limitless' last posts. Someone mentioned that we, as LBSs, spend so much time wondering at which stage our MLCer is at, that we forget about the stages we go through. I am approaching 3 years since bomb drop and have only recently decided not to stand any longer. I have come to the realization that my marriage is over. He has been gone for almost 3 years and we have been divorced for about a year and a half and there has been absolutely no moves on his part to even start toward even thinking about reconciling. I know that I would never be able to trust him or even forgive him for what he has done. I have thrown in the towel and I feel really good with that. I miss him every now and then but I have gotten so used to doing everything for myself and my kids without him that he really isn't even in my thoughts that often. He has become "someone that I used to know". I have dipped my toe in the dating pool but am taking it very very slowly. Its funny that I actually enjoy being solitary now. I love the quiet moments when the kids are out or in bed and I have the house to myself. I can watch whatever I want to watch, go to bed when I want, eat what I want etc. Its nice to have me-time. I even like having the whole bed to myself-most of the time......
The thing for me is that I also miss companionship and sex. My ex and I had a great sex life before he left. -or maybe we didn't and I just wasn't aware of it... ;) I am only 42, in the best shape of my life and I have had offers but up til now I politely refused. I think Im going to see what happens if I dont say no.
So, stage wise- I guess you could say that I have lived through the shock, denial, anger, confusion, acceptance and survived and thrived.
I am interested to see if there are similarities amongst LBSs depending on timing from BD.
Also, please forgive me, I don't want to offend any standers in the forum by announcing my decision to stop standing.
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Talking about quiet. Oldest d just came out screaming about a bug on her shirt. Took it off. Dad's a hero right now. Gave me some time to ponder your post.
I do stand for my marriage. I believe in my vows and support my family. My w does remain at home but things are very strained. However, we are trying to make things work.
Do not think of this as being against your choice. Your h has broken his commitment. He failed you. You have has the time to think, reflect, and make a rational decision about your life. If you enter into a new relationship, it is because you are emotionally ready to make such an action and not just reacting to your spouse.
I appreciate your courage to come and post. (((((hugs))) and know that you are in my prayers.
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I am approaching 3 years since bomb drop and have only recently decided not to stand any longer. I have come to the realization that my marriage is over. He has been gone for almost 3 years and we have been divorced for about a year and a half and there has been absolutely no moves on his part to even start toward even thinking about reconciling.
Your decision not to stand is fine....it's a personal decision. Bomb drop for me was a little over 2.5 years ago. I have been divorced for 2 of those 2.5 years.
I understand you are no longer standing. 3 years is too soon in a vast majority of the cases for the MLCer to starting toward reconciliation.....or even reconnection which comes before reconciliation.
I know that I would never be able to trust him or even forgive him for what he has done.
Possibly true. Hopefully you have at least read RCR's articles on trust and forgiveness.
I am interested to see if there are similarities amongst LBSs depending on timing from BD.
I am in a similar time frame as you.....not quite as much time since bomb drop, but have been divorced longer.
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I love my H so so much...we have been together 24 yrs and i have never even thought about being with someone else until this.
I now wonder what it would be like to have someone with similar interests, who gives me constant attention, wants to be with me (instead of trying to pursued someone ::) ) I know it might not last, but it would be good to have. i so wish he would try to do it, but that is down to him.
My H is home....but i know if I hadn't seen him for the amount of time you have I would be doing the very same as you and TBH i think maybe after trying some newer models...his chance of ever returning would be low. ;)
Good luck and i hope you find the happiness you deserve. :)
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Here is a thread on the STAGES of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1
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I don't know if this came from that same thread; OP I think posted this somewhere ages ago, and I'd copied it; I'm copying it again here:
Edit : Yes it is from the above thread - OldPilot
My thoughts on the LBS stages;
Denial- Without a doubt the first phase. It could be as simple as denying that there is something wrong or amiss. Eventually turning to denial that it is actually happening to us, denying our part in everything, and the worse part.....denying our inner self's to come out. Maybe because we don't know how.....but at the point everything is caused by some outside catalyst. Sounds very MLC like to me?
Bargaining-I put this here instead of after anger because I feel the deep seated thought out anger is yet to come. We have felt the quick anger brought on by emotional pain and trauma, but not that thought out and reviewed anger that is to come. So we beg, plead, whatever it takes (during this stage I actually saw the positive side of an open marriage...granted my situation is only slightly different...LOL). We will do whatever it takes to save the marriage, yet haven't realized that the marriage is gone. dead! Fini!
Anger-This stage is third...why you ask? At this point our bargaining, selling of our soul, absolutely nothing has had the expected results. So we feel deep down anger and conviction that we are right...they are wrong....and We will win no matter who loses! This very well might be the hardest stage for anybody going through this. I have been scanning lightly in newcomers and see so many of that boards "mentors" stuck themselves in this stage. Trying to control what is uncontrollable out of anger and not based on sound decision.
Depression-At this point the energy involved with our anger is used up. We are burnt out......and now we are ALONE. Yes...we have been alone in the physical sense for some time, but the bucket is finally empty.
Resentment-Slightly different than anger.....more identified with long periods of being OK....then boom.....anger comes bursting back in very brief, but extremely intense blasts. I think it is almost a triggered response...a missed ball game, long weekend with a sick child, or coming up short on a mortgage payment. A catalyst disturbs the beast sleeping within.
Acceptance-I place this before forgiveness because I feel you have to accept the marriage is done before you can forgive the damage it's death has caused. At this point you know that you are alone. The resentment is gone because you accept that triggers from resentment are just yours alone to deal with. This is also a great time for personal growth. Confidence that you will survive on your own, that you can do thing yourself, and that the sun will still rise tomorrow.
Self-growth-Regaining on confidence continued. New perspective of the things around you. Constant questioning...of yourself and the principles we follow. At this point anything is possible....for ourselves.
Forgiveness-At this point you can forgive yourself for your part in the demise of the marriage. You can also see the pain the process has caused our spouse. The knowledge that neither party has really come out of this unscathed is apparent. You will know at this point that the journey was beneficial for both parties as long as neither got tripped up in their respective journeys. Maybe the marriage is renewed...maybe not.
Renewal-The world is different (I know that I see it differently). We are almost reborn to a life that that has unlimited potential. Things that were once taken for granted are cherished...and things thought essential are no longer that important. We are finally able to cash in on the independent self that we have found within ourselves.
Living again-At this point we move on, piece, whatever hand we have been dealt. Everything behind will be seen with compassion for the pain it caused and the enlightenment about ourselves that we achieved.
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Ember, choosing not to stand anymore is a personal choice. Only you can decide to do it. 3 years is on the short end in MLC. In average it ranges from 4 to 7 years. It is your life, you're the one that get to decide what to do with it.
Hyper, trying newer models is interesting but, unless we find one that fits the person we have become, it end up losing it interest. After trying a few newer models we kind of think “ok, I’ve done it, I’m still attractive, I still have it but now I need someone that is capable of stay by my side for the rest of my life”. No, I’m nor saying it has to be our former spouse, simply that we will become more choosing and demanding making sure our needs are meet.
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Thought it was about time ladies and gentlemen, that we had a thread to compare the script. A discussion started earlier on my thread, so thought this might be either helpful or humorous for us all.
From Calamity:
Serenity re: lbs script [a small sampling]
Where's Wed cos we need graphics for this one. Most of the lbs script is :o :o you know, standing there with your mouth gaping in disbelief.
He loves ow, he hates me.
It's not mlc.
How could he?
WTF & some other assorted bad words. [This situation could turn a nun vulgar.]
I must be crazy.
He's crazy.
It's all my fault.
**for male lbs's. Since the english language used 'he' for half of my life, to refer to either gender, I figure its fair game.
From AnneJ:
Latter script for LBS:
Yep, it is MLC.
It is he/she.
WTH is still used. Many years after BD the MLCer still does :o :o :o things.
He/she is crazy will also remain.
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My life is over.
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He's never coming back...he told me so.
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LBS script...
Where's my furniture, husband and life?
Oh, it's over at OWs house. ::)
Will it be back? Was it something I said?
Maybe it was the bagged lettuce? ???
Waaaaaaah! I love him.
Arrrgh! I Hate him!
Should I send an anniversary card? Should I call a lawyer?
I'll just worry about me and my kids and watch while his fake life falls apart. No worries. ;)
Hey who's texting at 2am? and WHY?
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Should I see him?
Should I answer the phone, text, email?
Should I tell his d her father is an ___________?
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I know I deserve better than this... Who the feck does he think he is!
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Was it all a lie? Has he lost his mind? Have *I* lost *my* mind?!
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He is not the ONLY man in the world, but I love the idiot! :P
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Did somebody say Where's Wed?
Oh, I can most definitely add to this. I am an expert now, ya know. I went through living with an MLCer for a long time, being separated from him and finally divorced from him. He's been both a low-energy and high-energy MLCer. He's been a Clinger, and a Vanisher, and I guess some stuff in between. So here is what I have been able to determine about how MLC got going:
Somehow, this [insert profanity here] button in my H's [insert profanity here] brain got pushed
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/ku-medium_zps1ed5b067.jpg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/ku-medium_zps1ed5b067.jpg.html)
and my H lost his mind. He immediately went overboard with his cell phone usage,
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/tumblr_mktl190bAt1qck2o9o1_400_zpsfa5b3261.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/tumblr_mktl190bAt1qck2o9o1_400_zpsfa5b3261.gif.html)
turned into a 14-year-old girl on certain social media sites,
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/dumbville-facebook_zps1f7ba11c.jpg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/dumbville-facebook_zps1f7ba11c.jpg.html)
got to feeling super-confident and invincible with all of his new-found popularity
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/tumblr_m4bpn1JGuk1qegy3ro1_500_zps4e5ed78c.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/tumblr_m4bpn1JGuk1qegy3ro1_500_zps4e5ed78c.gif.html)
and decided that being married to a loser like me was quite the embarrassment.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/tumblr_mczxx1wt3Q1rvaj6zo1_500_zpse7a6eec5.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/tumblr_mczxx1wt3Q1rvaj6zo1_500_zpse7a6eec5.gif.html)
So what script did I follow to weather the craziness? At the beginning, I was too emotional to say much that made any sense.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/sadto_zpsaae72ee3.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/sadto_zpsaae72ee3.gif.html)
Then I resolved to try living a heathier life and eating better, for me.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/17538311_485_zps012feb53.jpg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/17538311_485_zps012feb53.jpg.html)
I decided NO CONTACT was the way to go.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/1034889957_34686d8940_z_zps04112366.jpg) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/1034889957_34686d8940_z_zps04112366.jpg.html)
NO CONTACT and NO CYBERSTALKING either. Account deletion, hooray!!
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/a9f7ed4cb9ab0cf29ae0f389f2bfe738_zps4c0e440d.png) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/a9f7ed4cb9ab0cf29ae0f389f2bfe738_zps4c0e440d.png.html)
I gently put his things aside and after a time, when I could be calm and composed about it all, requested that he remove them.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/tumblr_m0jttkwja01qhik5p_zpsaf0b7ac8.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/tumblr_m0jttkwja01qhik5p_zpsaf0b7ac8.gif.html)
It's only now I've begun to realize how much of dealing with MLC is simply... waiting.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/UdTfs_zpsc85aedea.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/UdTfs_zpsc85aedea.gif.html)
So that's it. That's been my experience. For you male LBS out there, I suspect that your interactions may have been different.
(http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh536/w2h4e/777_i-not-has-a-pms_zps132a0c65.gif) (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/w2h4e/media/777_i-not-has-a-pms_zps132a0c65.gif.html)
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Hey Wed,
that was absolutely brilliant. I haven't laughed so much in ages.
I've bookmarked it so that I can keep enjoying it, especially if I get an off day.
X
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Aren't you soooo smart Wed2Him4ever???LOL, that was a perfect show!
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HaHaHaHaHaHa!! Oh so true :)
Thank you all for the morning smile!!
31
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LOVED IT!!!!
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I loved it and so wish I could send it on to H.....lol
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LOVE IT!!!! How about my H asking me for half of our kitchen, half of the bath towels and anything else I would give him and then yelling at me for not boxing it up for him! What?
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From my experience and perspective:
1st Stage - Anyone catch the number of that freight train that hit me?
2nd Stage - It's all my fault, what's wrong with me, I'm not good enough. I'm too fat, too frumpy, too Mumsy, too ( fill in the blank).
3rd Stage - Get a grip, some of what he said has truth, other stuff is pure unadulterated BS. He doesn't want the marriage. WTH does that mean? He's an asshat, coward, ( fill in the blank). No, I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND!
4th Stage - OK, pull up the big girl panties and get on with it. Make the best life you can for yourself and the kids. Remember, be kind to YOU! You will make choices only for you and your kids.
5th Stage -WTH did I need him for anyway? I'm doing just fine, sometimes lonely, often sad, and solo sex isn't exactly earth shaking, but it'll do...for now. Gee whiz, it's actually kind of nice to have a big bed to myself, be accountable to only me, to make decisions in my own best interest.
6th Stage -Wow, other people are noticing I have special qualities to offer. I'm a good person, I like myself! I'm having fun and enjoying my life most of the time.
7th Stage - Bye bye, husband. Hope you make a great life for yourself, hope you sort it out before you die.
I forgive you for all your past transgressions. I won't forget, but I choose to forgive. The person you are you carry with you. In a way I pity you husband. I can't change you. I can't make you feel. I can't make your choices for you.
Good luck, kisses, my best wishes and general loving feeling go with you. See ya around!
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That is it, JD. :) Somehow I skiped stage 2, I never thought it was my fault or anything was wrong with me. Stage 7 is a very cool one. 8) And we do reach it.
If only the MLCers knew we will get to stage 7... ::) ::) ::) Poor them, still trapped in Replay (or elsewhere in the crisis). ::) ::) ::)
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So well said JD! I love it and so true. I am actually doing much better than I thought. LOL.
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Beautifully spoken JD! My MLcer taught me I dont need him in my life...I want him but I dont want to need him....I am looking forward to stage 7... :)
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Awesome Wed.. and everyone. Oh gosh.
Wed when you said "weather the storm" I thought that was a picture of Al Roker the weatherman. Is it a rapper making a mug? lol
How about when you get super busy at work and with the kids and you forget all about the MLCer! ;D His cellphone text box was full and he didn't know he had to delete them to make room. For 1 month nothing but quiet pretty much. ;D
So I work 30 days in a row and help the girls live our lives while Mr.Sabotage Sam is nowhere to be seen and then suddenly shows up all cute and hoovering.
sigh followed by YAWN!! ;D ;D
Keep going everyone!
At some point I will go over to my thread and tell you about OWs D22 moving in with 2 babies and a new H of her own.
Ended up bad with cops and welfare and people getting kicked out. MLCer flies in sH!Tstorm and can't see it! Yet!
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Wed when you said "weather the storm" I thought that was a picture of Al Roker the weatherman. Is it a rapper making a mug?
Hi MB! It's actually NFL wide receiver Terrell "T.O." Owens. If you're unfamiliar with him he is famous for throwin' his team's QB under the bus. One day, he decided to "flip the script" and take up for his QB (and show some emotion as well).
I'd blame MLC but dramatic is the dude's normal, so there really would not be any way to tell. Maybe he'd decide to grow hair?
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Wed, that was great!
I said a sentence, I thought I'd never in my life say to my H (now exH). I was on the phone, over 1000 miles away when he told me he had moved out. I was due to fly home that morning, so I asked, "do I still have a bed?"
Never in a million did I think I'd be asking my H that question.
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LBS Stages and LBS Script got merged into one thread.
Feel free to comment on either one.
There is a good link back to DB that I posted on page one.
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Wed - that was brilliant - made me laugh!
JD thanks for stages - think I'm at stage 4 nudging into 5 - so looking forward and upward!!
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Awesome. I'm between 6 and 7 It's been a long haul. Script spot on too. Thank you all
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I really liked the JD stages - I'm battling, but it was VERY helpful. :)
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I reckon i'm at stage 6, but still too annoyed with h to reach stage 7 it'sll come though.
sd
x
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As topic say, that we are ! We are in deep $hit !
1. We are at midlife.
2. We have teenagers as kids.
3. We aren't anymore good enough for companies where we work.
4. We haven't so much energy as we have before.
5. Our bodies start to become older faster then before.
6. We start to have problems with health, first eyes - glasses. Then digestive problems, urinary problems nothing serious but we feel that we aren't so young and so healthy as before.
7. We have very old parents which are with a lot problems, health problems and psyche problems.
So, we are in the middle of anvil and hammer ! Kids wanna more money, they need more attention then before when they was smaller kids. They are half kids - half adults. They are in LIFE CRISIS TO ! When they have to transform self physically and psychologically. Some teenagers have smooth transition, some have CRISIS (familiar) !
Also our parents have transition to !!!!! Never heard about last transition which is in front of us after MLT ? Some hit CRISIS some transition ! (familiar ?) They become more needy ! They actually going to become children before died.
Above ALL we have spouse which is not is in MLT but in MLC ? What we are ? We are superheros !!!!! We become single parents ! That is most painful ! Betrayal when is the worst part when one can possible be ! In mid life.
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YUP
I read a book by Gail Sheehy called
Understanding Men’s Passages: Discovering the New Map of Men's Lives (1999)
It details all of what you wrote above.
All of it is true.
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Thank You OP !
Now I will present my life in brief, what a f*cked generation I am.
- Parents, father great man ! He was my idol, and still is ! He is real parent ! Real father, I never get over his death.
- To bad he died, 57 years old. Mother borderline PD. My father was indeed great man living whole life with borderline. Always faithful, real lighthouse of family ! Love You dead ! <3
- Born 1962 in communist state ! Go figure ! On year in prison, serve military as must ! And all communist crap. >:( My family was not politically correct - should I tell more ? We lived under magnify glass... >:(
- Father dies, I have to work and study - no money, so my studding prolonged...
- Meet wife in 1987. Date one year. Married as students. True love ! <3
- War start 1991. Been there as soldier.
- I graduate in middle of the war 1992, get job.
- We decide to have kids, because war who knows when will finish.
- Get a D, my love ! :-* 1994. I lost job that year and get another one month after D born. ???
- War over 1995. VICTORY !
- Post war period country rebuilding low salaries. :o
- We get second child S 1998. ;D
- 2003. Wife get a job. ;)
- My mother was seriously ill, we support her financially - long time, very low pension. :(
- Until 2007. all was great instead all what we go trough. W start her MLC journey :o
- 2008. Economical crisis start. ::)
- 2011. W hit Escape and avoid. ???
- 2012. her mother suffer lung cancer, in September father operated column cancer. :o
- W hit REPLAY. :'(
- 2013. I am almost single parent !
- I dive in depression slowly fallowing wife crisis, after BD I totally colapse, deep in depression. So, I am now fully awaken and I did my part, my MLT is finished, I am stronger then ever !
- We have serious financial issues, for both salaries cut down for 1/3 to 1/2. Go figure ! Lucky we don't have any loans. No jobs available, heavy crisis is in country.
- My borderline mother is in last life crisis, not transition ! D have some BD traits, but she is fine, she almost drop last year in high school when her mother hit pick of replay.
Kids have problems, they grow in their crucal phases without sane mother. I have to fix that, and I am doing it. I am that super glue which holding my family on cup.
So, life is good ! I AM STILL ALIVE AND KICKING ! 8)
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I say we wear super hero capes with the Heros Spouse logo on it....
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Made me smile just had to comment - all so true :)
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My thoughts on the LBS stages;
Denial- Without a doubt the first phase. It could be as simple as denying that there is something wrong or amiss. Eventually turning to denial that it is actually happening to us, denying our part in everything, and the worse part.....denying our inner self's to come out. Maybe because we don't know how.....but at the point everything is caused by some outside catalyst. Sounds very MLC like to me?
Bargaining-I put this here instead of after anger because I feel the deep seated thought out anger is yet to come. We have felt the quick anger brought on by emotional pain and trauma, but not that thought out and reviewed anger that is to come. So we beg, plead, whatever it takes (during this stage I actually saw the positive side of an open marriage...granted my situation is only slightly different...LOL). We will do whatever it takes to save the marriage, yet haven't realized that the marriage is gone. dead! Fini!
Anger-This stage is third...why you ask? At this point our bargaining, selling of our soul, absolutely nothing has had the expected results. So we feel deep down anger and conviction that we are right...they are wrong....and We will win no matter who loses! This very well might be the hardest stage for anybody going through this. I have been scanning lightly in newcomers and see so many of that boards "mentors" stuck themselves in this stage. Trying to control what is uncontrollable out of anger and not based on sound decision.
Depression-At this point the energy involved with our anger is used up. We are burnt out......and now we are ALONE. Yes...we have been alone in the physical sense for some time, but the bucket is finally empty.
Resentment-Slightly different than anger.....more identified with long periods of being OK....then boom.....anger comes bursting back in very brief, but extremely intense blasts. I think it is almost a triggered response...a missed ball game, long weekend with a sick child, or coming up short on a mortgage payment. A catalyst disturbs the beast sleeping within.
Acceptance-I place this before forgiveness because I feel you have to accept the marriage is done before you can forgive the damage it's death has caused. At this point you know that you are alone. The resentment is gone because you accept that triggers from resentment are just yours alone to deal with. This is also a great time for personal growth. Confidence that you will survive on your own, that you can do thing yourself, and that the sun will still rise tomorrow.
Self-growth-Regaining on confidence continued. New perspective of the things around you. Constant questioning...of yourself and the principles we follow. At this point anything is possible....for ourselves.
Forgiveness-At this point you can forgive yourself for your part in the demise of the marriage. You can also see the pain the process has caused our spouse. The knowledge that neither party has really come out of this unscathed is apparent. You will know at this point that the journey was beneficial for both parties as long as neither got tripped up in their respective journeys. Maybe the marriage is renewed...maybe not.
Renewal-The world is different (I know that I see it differently). We are almost reborn to a life that that has unlimited potential. Things that were once taken for granted are cherished...and things thought essential are no longer that important. We are finally able to cash in on the independent self that we have found within ourselves.
Living again-At this point we move on, piece, whatever hand we have been dealt. Everything behind will be seen with compassion for the pain it caused and the enlightenment about ourselves that we achieved.
Reposted and bumped up for more of a discussion.
Who is stuck in the first three stages?
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Be honest now! If you can't get past the first 3 stages, you are STUCK! Stuck is bad... really, really bad! Stuck means, NO FUTURE...no! no! no! That must not happen.
Let's get this baby rolling, this is probably the most important discussion, you will ever have.
Good one OP... thanks for BUMPING THIS ONE UP..
Hugs Stayed
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From my experience and perspective:
1st Stage - Anyone catch the number of that freight train that hit me?
2nd Stage - It's all my fault, what's wrong with me, I'm not good enough. I'm too fat, too frumpy, too Mumsy, too ( fill in the blank).
3rd Stage - Get a grip, some of what he said has truth, other stuff is pure unadulterated BS. He doesn't want the marriage. WTH does that mean? He's an asshat, coward, ( fill in the blank). No, I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND!
4th Stage - OK, pull up the big girl panties and get on with it. Make the best life you can for yourself and the kids. Remember, be kind to YOU! You will make choices only for you and your kids.
5th Stage -WTH did I need him for anyway? I'm doing just fine, sometimes lonely, often sad, and solo sex isn't exactly earth shaking, but it'll do...for now. Gee whiz, it's actually kind of nice to have a big bed to myself, be accountable to only me, to make decisions in my own best interest.
6th Stage -Wow, other people are noticing I have special qualities to offer. I'm a good person, I like myself! I'm having fun and enjoying my life most of the time.
7th Stage - Bye bye, husband. Hope you make a great life for yourself, hope you sort it out before you die.
I forgive you for all your past transgressions. I won't forget, but I choose to forgive. The person you are you carry with you. In a way I pity you husband. I can't change you. I can't make you feel. I can't make your choices for you.
Good luck, kisses, my best wishes and general loving feeling go with you. See ya around!
After picking myself up after the divorce, dusting myself down, getting my own house, plenty of GAL and meeting new people I guess I'm moving from a 5 into 6, and I keep screaming the last bit of number 3 to myself. I'll let her know that if I ever get round to speaking to her again.
All this is really good when I consider this time last year I was laying down waiting for the next freight train to finish me off. (I was seriously suicidal).
Anyway time has been I good healer, I'm feeling much better and looking forward to the future maybe even skipping number 7 and taking on what lies beyond.
Lanzo
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Time is a good healer. I think I'm at acceptance. I really am o.k. either way it goes now. I do feel I have forgiven also. I really have no feelings of bitterness or anger towards my h anymore. I really do see him differently. I don't see him as my h anymore. I only call him that on here so you know who I'm talking about. If someone asks if I'm married, I say no.
I'm still working on self growth and I think I'm gaining ground on renewal and living again. Emotions are getting easier to control and not thinking about h for the most part is now much easier. I have my setbacks and accept them now and then move forward again. I was in the depression stage for quite a bit and still slip back there every now and again.
I think in a way we are like our mlc'r going through the stages. I don't think we always go in order and sometimes we are in more than one while we move through and go back and forth.
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ember,
I just found this threat. Interesting discussion for sure.
I felt pretty much like you after my first H left me for ow. I hung on through a few ow's but finally was ready to get on with my life. I was 35, married for 18 years, was in the best shape of my life and needed to move on. I was too young to be alone. H went though a couple of failed marriage so I feel my decision was right for me.
I started dating a man, but after 2 years I knew it was just a rebound relationship and broke it off. About 6 months later met and fell in love with my second H. Unfortunately, he hit a MLC wall and we divorced after 21 years of marriage (28 years together).
I'm not exactly sure if I'm standing or not. He has not been with anyone else and neither have I. He has never been Monster. Not much replay antics. Never really said anything too hurtful, just that he wanted his freedom because he was unhappy. ::)
I love him and we spend a lot of time together but I know I will never remarry him...so is that "not" standing?? I want a relationship with him...just not as a husband. So maybe I'm standing for a relationship but not our marriage. Scratching my head.
Anyway I just wanted to say I understand your feelings and your decision. It sounds like the right move for you. I hope all is good now and you have moved on to a better place.
Love to hear an update.
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Great thread to bump up . Important reading for all of us
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My thoughts on the LBS stages;
Denial- Without a doubt the first phase. It could be as simple as denying that there is something wrong or amiss. Eventually turning to denial that it is actually happening to us, denying our part in everything, and the worse part.....denying our inner self's to come out. Maybe because we don't know how.....but at the point everything is caused by some outside catalyst. Sounds very MLC like to me?
Bargaining-I put this here instead of after anger because I feel the deep seated thought out anger is yet to come. We have felt the quick anger brought on by emotional pain and trauma, but not that thought out and reviewed anger that is to come. So we beg, plead, whatever it takes (during this stage I actually saw the positive side of an open marriage...granted my situation is only slightly different...LOL). We will do whatever it takes to save the marriage, yet haven't realized that the marriage is gone. dead! Fini!
Anger-This stage is third...why you ask? At this point our bargaining, selling of our soul, absolutely nothing has had the expected results. So we feel deep down anger and conviction that we are right...they are wrong....and We will win no matter who loses! This very well might be the hardest stage for anybody going through this. I have been scanning lightly in newcomers and see so many of that boards "mentors" stuck themselves in this stage. Trying to control what is uncontrollable out of anger and not based on sound decision.
Depression-At this point the energy involved with our anger is used up. We are burnt out......and now we are ALONE. Yes...we have been alone in the physical sense for some time, but the bucket is finally empty.
Resentment-Slightly different than anger.....more identified with long periods of being OK....then boom.....anger comes bursting back in very brief, but extremely intense blasts. I think it is almost a triggered response...a missed ball game, long weekend with a sick child, or coming up short on a mortgage payment. A catalyst disturbs the beast sleeping within.
Acceptance-I place this before forgiveness because I feel you have to accept the marriage is done before you can forgive the damage it's death has caused. At this point you know that you are alone. The resentment is gone because you accept that triggers from resentment are just yours alone to deal with. This is also a great time for personal growth. Confidence that you will survive on your own, that you can do thing yourself, and that the sun will still rise tomorrow.
Self-growth-Regaining on confidence continued. New perspective of the things around you. Constant questioning...of yourself and the principles we follow. At this point anything is possible....for ourselves.
Forgiveness-At this point you can forgive yourself for your part in the demise of the marriage. You can also see the pain the process has caused our spouse. The knowledge that neither party has really come out of this unscathed is apparent. You will know at this point that the journey was beneficial for both parties as long as neither got tripped up in their respective journeys. Maybe the marriage is renewed...maybe not.
Renewal-The world is different (I know that I see it differently). We are almost reborn to a life that that has unlimited potential. Things that were once taken for granted are cherished...and things thought essential are no longer that important. We are finally able to cash in on the independent self that we have found within ourselves.
Living again-At this point we move on, piece, whatever hand we have been dealt. Everything behind will be seen with compassion for the pain it caused and the enlightenment about ourselves that we achieved.
Reposted and bumped up for more of a discussion.
Who is stuck in the first three stages?
I'm moving this to the top of each page, because these are some stages that the LBS goes through. Are there more? Perhaps. Are there less? That's possible as well. The point is my dear LBS friends, NOBODY has ever really documented the stages that the LBS goes through. NOBODY has ever really bothered to do so EXCEPT for Heartsblessing and a group of folks from Divorce Buster. When I read Lost for Words interpretation of the STAGES that the average LBS goes through, I thought he was describing me.
I know I struggled with the first 3 stages... moving back and forth amongst the 3 for the first 6 to 8 months. Quite honestly, I think I was STUCK in DENIAL for a couple of years or more, before the bomb dropped. After that, I fluctuated wildly between the first 3.
When we reconnected and eventually reconnected, my greatest struggle was with RESENTMENT. Certainly I went through a terrible rage, quite similar in fact to what Barbiedoll is now experiencing. The first 6 months were the worst... extreme ANGER...then the anxiety attacks began. My friends from Surviving Infidelity explained to me what those things were, because I was certain my heart was going to EXPLODE.
I can only describe those months of anxiety attacks, were to me, my personal battle with the devil! No more needs to be said about that. The edge had never been closer! The darkness beckoned! Terrifying!
Resentment has been the ongoing battle. Even now. My reasons for resentment are triggered by so many things. A wide, wide variety of perceived injustices, unnecessary suffering, lost time, wasted money, daughter's miscarriage, heck I can even at times, blame our oldest sons imminent divorce on this period of time.
The duration has shortened, the frequency of the emotional outburst occur less and less often. Time does heal all things, for sure. I only mention this because as an LBS, you need to know. It seems that even the LBS whose marriages have not been reconciled (at least so far), they also experience resentment. No matter who you are, whether your marriage is salvaged or not, it seems there is an mild residue of resentment left behind.
I know I wanted to just get my man back, repair and rebuild our marriage. We have done so. I think we have done a really good job of it, but there is still some "resentment" and it's ugly head is quite easily triggered. Not nearly as long and definitely much less often, but it still occurs, 8 years later. We are human.
Hugs Stayed
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LBS is pushed in MLT because of spouse crisis. Path of LBS is same as any other person who going trough MLT and all of that we have already in for my taste better form. Difference between transition and crisis is that crisis have Escape & Avoid and transition haven't.
Of course LBS can stuck in MLT, of course LBS can hit own MLC too. So, I prefer Kübler-Ross model:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model
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You're so right Albatross. I was thinking just today that I'm having my own replay.
When he left I cut my hair and started buying vintage dresses. Started smoking and drinking when feeling down. I crave male attention to make me feel attractive and young.
The only difference is that I know why I'm trying to cheer myself up and would never dream of abandoning my children in pursuit of goodness knows what!
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You're so right Albatross. I was thinking just today that I'm having my own replay.
When he left I cut my hair and started buying vintage dresses. Started smoking and drinking when feeling down. I crave male attention to make me feel attractive and young.
The only difference is that I know why I'm trying to cheer myself up and would never dream of abandoning my children in pursuit of goodness knows what!
They also want cheer self, refusing to make necessary changes. That is all about escape and avoid. So call GAL-ing just to distract self from pain, instead embracing pain, which will lead us in depression and then we have to change or remain in depression forever.
So, GAL-ing could be possible only after One finish own transformation, otherwise is distraction and artificial. So, replay for MLCers is artificial GAL-ing.
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Stayed,
Thank you for saying that. After a few years I think resentment was so high on my list but I never really acknowledged it.
I so resented him for breaking up our marriage like he did. No second chances. No trying to work on it. The worst was having no vote. I was totally at his mercy. He wanted a D and there was, literally, NOTHING I could do about it. The courts made it possible for him to just dismiss me like I wasn't important. They gave me no voice.
I don't feel angry anymore over what he did, I THINK I have forgiven him, but I know he will never have me as his wife again.
He threw that priviledge away.
We can have a relationship, and I do want that, but it will be as 2 single people who just choose to be together.
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Wow, I started this thread more than 2 years ago already. I am constantly amazed at how similar all our stories are. I loved the stages that JD posted. I certainly saw my progression through most of them. I don't know if I will ever get to the forgiveness stage, I am not a very forgiving person. I also still harbour a lot of resentment toward my exH. I believe in Karma, and justice and I just don't think the karma bus has come along for him yet. My fiancee told me something once that really stuck with me as I moved through the final stages. He told me that my ex doesn't care if I am mad at him, I am not his problem anymore. The only person that knows that I am mad is ME and how is living with the toxic negative feelings going to make me better? I really thought about that and it made a lot of sense to me. I am much farther along than I was even one year ago. Will I ever forgive my exH? I doubt it, I just know that I am that kind of person.
I am happier than I have ever been. I am over 5 years post BD, 3 years divorced and soon to be married to the best guy I have ever met. I have experienced love that never existed with my exh. I am amazed daily at how much my guy is actually "interested" in the stuff I do and what I am thinking. We are true partners.
While BD and MLC was the most excruciating thing I have ever experienced, I would do it all again if I knew I would be the person I am now and how great my life is. There really is happiness for the LBS at the end of this ordeal.
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There should be a like button!
Congratulations ember!
L
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Thanks!!!
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My BD was 15 months ago .... I have been bouncing between stage 3, 4 and 5. Since hearing my H is dying of cancer...I cannot get past hating the OW. No matter how much material I have read, I still believe if she had not butted in, H would still be here (he was never a drinker, never did drugs, not into computers) so pretty sure he would have been a MLC still living here. Miserable he would be, but still here.
I have days where I hate him, I miss him, I miss the companionship... I doubt I will ever get past the resentment I have to OW.
Our paths cross occasionally due to our dog showing hobby...so I will never be rid of her face.
I will be happy when I can finally move on to stages 6 and beyond. I envy those LBS here on the forum that have managed that.
SSG
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Congratulations Ember. I wish you continued, everlasting happiness, joy and contentment.
I want to applaud you on admitting that you feel no "forgiveness" for your X-h. That takes courage as there seems to be a great need amongst LBS to be seen as loving, caring, forgiving people. I honestly didn't worry too much about forgiveness. I was surprised to discover that I was not as "forgiving" as I had always believed I was, hehehe. Of course, I can honestly say, I had never been betrayed, lied to, cheated on and abandoned by anyone before. It probably shouldn't have been a surprise, that forgiveness was not going to be handed out like candy.
People seem to be in a great hurry to pronounce their "forgiveness" for their MLC. A bit amusing actually, as I really don't think the average MLCer could give two hoots, if we forgive them or not... AT LEAST not early in this.
I do understand that forgiveness is for us. I truly do. I also discovered that for my own RECOVERY, I had to find FORGIVENESS in my heart. The crimes though were very serious ones, at least to me they were. Loyalty and honour, play a huge part in my mental, emotional, makeup. In my family, there was no greater crime then being disloyal. In order to maintain your honour, being loyal to those you loved and respected, were part and package.
I have learned though, that my h's step out of grace, loss of loyalty to his family and me, forsaking what had been a very honourable life, was and is, his loss. Yes, I will always "question" and will never totally hand over my "trust" to him or anybody for that matter, ever again, but I can live with that. I think in many ways, my expectations regarding loyalty, respect, honour, were perhaps a bit too high and quite honestly, nobody is responsible for my EXPECTATIONS. Those are mine, totally. I understand that now.
Good to hear from you ember. Your honesty is so appreciated. Glad you have found happiness. It's a proper thing.
Hugs Stayed
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So very pleased for you ember
You really have your 'happy Ever After'
X
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Ember, I was reading some of your past posts and struck by something you wrote about a year ago.
"Sadly, even though I am in love with my new man, there is a slight numbing quality to it. It's hard to explain. Almost like im afraid to give myself to him completely, or like I have built a wall around my heart to protect it. Perhaps with time. Im afraid that I will never completely get over my exH and that I will forever be this numb, incomplete person.
I am enjoying my life immensely, our health is good, my kids are happy, our finances are great, we travel, treat ourselves and our house is full of love.
There is life after MLC but im not sure if it ever completely goes away."
I am now three years in and what you wrote above is where I find myself. Do you ever completely feel healed? Does the numbness dissipate?
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"Sadly, even though I am in love with my new man, there is a slight numbing quality to it. It's hard to explain. Almost like im afraid to give myself to him completely, or like I have built a wall around my heart to protect it. Perhaps with time. Im afraid that I will never completely get over my exH and that I will forever be this numb, incomplete person.
I am enjoying my life immensely, our health is good, my kids are happy, our finances are great, we travel, treat ourselves and our house is full of love.
There is life after MLC but im not sure if it ever completely goes away."
Wow...I could have wrote this word for word. My boyfriend is moving in this week. I have more fun with him then I ever did with husband. We have way more in common. He listens to me and he has stuck by my side through all this MLC craziness and has held me for hours/days/weeks/months while I cried buckets of tears. The house/yard looks better than it ever did, I just bought a new car and we are planning our dream vacation. I have reconnected with many friends and family.
My heart still aches for my husband. With husband, I still use to get butterflies after 28+ years. I love my boyfriend, I really do. I'm so much happier when he is around. It just, I don't think I will ever completely give myself over to anybody. The pain was so great (and unexpected) when husband walked out that door. I just don't think I could survive pain like that again.
So I enjoy each day as it comes, but I feel that I carry a certain amount of heaviness that will be with me always.
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I would not like to be spoiler or devil advocate, but being in fresh relationship is totally different then being in marriage. Incomparable for so many reasons. After 10 years, maybe, not even then, having kids, rise them being in good and bad. Relationship is free of all that.
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Of course it's different Albatross. So is reconciliation, and I am NOT anti-standing, but not all are wired that way. But even given that, stayed would not feel the anger and resentment she STILL carries if he had not done what he did. The bottom line is we will NEVER know what our marriages might have been if not for the pain of MLC. But, moving on to a new R CAN be good. I am with ember. My H never loved me like my new fiancée does. Never, I know that, and I also know that IF he had, he could never have left the way he did. And I know that because even in the early stages, NG works WITH me. He doesn't force me to change, or suck it up, or bury it. We have been to counseling, mostly for my issues, but also kid things, and we considered breaking up, and when we did, we went back to counseling, so we could both know we were doing it for the right reasons and that we would both leave better people. I had a two-year FWB relationship, also, and in his own way, even he loved me more than H did. We are still friends. NG is okay with it, because he knows that I would never have been healthy enough without him to be ready for a real R with NG.
But, that said, the LBS script and healing path is VERY different for a stander than a person who moves on, and in a way, once a stander rethinks standing and decides, or slowly slides into moving on in new R's the healing reverts almost back to the beginning. When you heal to stand, you come here and you obey the unconditionals, you become the lighthouse, you hold onto the idea that there is no other person for you but your spouse. No matter what anyone says, you have limited your growth, and your spouse has not. Think about it, objectively. We can argue that their growth is devastating, and harmful, but as anyone in the military will tell you, sometimes you have to break a person before you can build them back up. Our spouses broke themselves and they are rebuilding, with drugs, OPs, crazy hobbies, whatever, they are TRYING to find SOMETHING. And, as a stander, it is your hope that what they find at the end of the tunnel, is YOU, and they are going to rebuild a new person, for better, or worse...
A stander knows who they think they are, where they belong, and who they want to be with, all the GALing in the world will seldom make a stander do something rash, like seek a new career, move across the country, or, of course, date, to see themselves in a different way. Only when you abandon the stand do you have the freedom to ditch the unconditionals and truly look at your spouse and M in a negative light, and I mean that, not honest, but negative. If H had never left, I would continue to look at him and our M in a positive or honest light. I am not perfect, he was not perfect, but I thought we worked. And as a stander, I could take off the rose-colored glasses, and look at him more honestly. But, only in abandoning the stand did I cast off that and look at his negatives. Not that I dwell on them any longer, but he actually left a lot to be desired, and I could be appreciated a LOT more. And that process, of finding my TRUE self, under the blame and shame and utter devastation, IS HARD, and so totally different.
And then, once you do that and seek your true ALONE person, not HIS wife, THEIR mother, that person you THOUGHT you would be forever, you figure out who YOU are, and you seek to maybe find another to share your life with, it starts all over. WHO AM I IN A NEW R? What does a DIFFERENT R look like? What are my new boundaries, did I ever have boundaries, what is my role, and how much baggage and I STILL carrying from my old M? And THAT is a whole 'nother heap o healing... I truly wish I knew more people on that path--it's awfully lonely, and just like we come here after the abandonment, it feels good to walk the same path with others, but there are so few of us who brave it again--consciously, after abandonment... Love and light, ll
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Albatross, I couldn't agree more. I devil advocate myself everyday.
I do question if my new relationship is just LBS script. Am I trying to dull the pain just like my husband? It's slightly different as I have been best friends with my boyfriend for 8+ years, unlike the MLCers who seem to just meet and jump in with OP.
I'm very honest with bf, he has been by my side throughout all this mess. Again, I'm happier when he is around, so why fight it?
This thread started as LBS script so I have questions--
Will Husband try to come back?
What will I do if he tries to come back?
Will I be able to trust him if he comes back?
Was my marriage real, or was he always a cheat and was I just blind to his actions?
Is MLC real or just an excuse?
Should I leave a man that I KNOW I can count on for one that walked away so easily??
and....
If MLC is real, should it be treated as an illness? Am I being just as bad as husband for giving up so easily???
It would be nice if I had more answers than questions. :-\
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I agree, the "new relationship" could and probably will be good/great whether it is with a new person or your reconciled MLCer....I don't believe the trust will ever be the same as it was before the crisis, no matter who the partner is.
"Once you get burned while reaching for a pot, you will forever reach for a hot pot with caution!! "
the way I look at that is I am safer because of my caution.
31andcounting
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nah,
I think we all have levels of how much we can take before we give up. I don't have any answers for you, but I have a question. IF your H did want to come back and be a proper H how would you feel?
Would you give it a try or stay with your bf?
I, personally, don't see anything wrong with getting on with your life with someone new if you've given it your all and you have nothing left to give. You have every right to find happiness. You didn't destroy your marriage.
I would just caution you to take things slow. Only because after my first H left me I found a wonderful man who did love me more than my H did...in all respects, but "I" was not really ready to accept his love and I ended up hurting him pretty bad.
I guess that's why this time I'm not allowing someone else in my life. I want to...very much, but I am gun shy yet.
I know I love my H (X) very much and I'll stand a little longer.
LisaLoves,
You're right. We will never know what our marriage could have been if they had not wanted out. I'm not saying we can't have a good marriage or relationship if they come back, but it will be different.
The close, connection, in my opinion is broken. The never ending trust will probably never be there like before and the beautiful innocence is gone. Rose colored glasses are off for good.
I suppose it's like being in a bloody war. You can come out of it and have a good life but you are scarred. The wound heals but the scar remains.
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Thank you for your post LisaLives. You wrote what I feel but can never quite explain it like you have.
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nah,
I think we all have levels of how much we can take before we give up. I don't have any answers for you, but I have a question. IF your H did want to come back and be a proper H how would you feel?
Would you give it a try or stay with your bf?
Thunder,
I wish I had a definite answer one way or another. Boyfriend is very sure that husband will try to come back at some point. Actually I feel it too. If/when he tries to come back, one thing for sure, somebody will get hurt. Again, I'm just taking it one day at a time. My head says boyfriend all the way, my heart is torn. The one thing I am sure of, as time goes by, memories of husband fades more and more.
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nah I can relate. I'm seeing someone else and honestly I can't wait to talk to him everyday. H yeah I dread his daily texts. I can't figure out if I'm just running away from h and his bs or if my feelings are truly different now.
My head also days be done with h but my heart won't let go. My guy also knows everything and believes h will come back. I just don't think I will be there if h does come back.
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TMT---I think there are very few that can relate to our issue. The funny thing is the only person who still allows me to vent and understands my hesitation is boyfriend ???.
Boyfriend is smart, sexy (hey are those abs??? haven't seen things like those in years :D), and he lavishes me with presents, dinner, dancing, love, attention. Honestly, I have been a crazy nut job the past 18 months and I keep asking him why he is still here. His answer? We have been best friends for years and he has always loved me. If we just met he would have been long gone. He would have never ever broke up my family, he loved me from a distance. I know that I am really, really lucky to have him in my life, especially now.
Why, why, why can't I stop thinking about the man who abused (emotionally), betrayed and abandoned me? I guess it's not easy to erase 28+ really good years. Seriously, how do the MLCers do it? I have a great guy, husband has a whack job. I was completely in love and devoted to husband, people think he is crazy for leaving me. Husband still can't come up with a good reason for leaving me, but he's doing it. I mean, I'm struggling even though people approve of my actions and I have nothing to feel guilty about, how do they do it????
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I do believe they ALL try to come back, at some point. And I struggle so much with WHY would I want him back. I married for a family, NEVER was it for me, it was, I thought, a loving, strategic partnership, to build a family, to continue to build the family that his and mine started... Then he broke that compact. As the person I am NOW, taking him back WOULD be pretzeling all over. A part of me thinks, even today, engaged and in love, I would take him back, for my kids--the ultimate sacrifice. I would do it, and I would make it work, for them. My heart knows that if I did that, I would sacrifice ME all over again, now that I found a man who TRULY gives me grace... I think they all try to come back, but I don't think any of them, at that point are capable of giving us what we deserve. Can they grow into it, possibly, but then you are truly taking a chance on a man who only shows a POSSIBILITY, when I guarantee you, there are hundreds out there who CAN AND WILL truly appreciate you. And there is the conundrum of life after MLC. WHOSE LIFE IS THIS ANYWAY? Is it mine, his, my kids, NGs kids, our family, friends? It's awfully hard to let go and say F it all, this is all about me and I am going for it... We saw them do it, but us... Tough stuff... ll
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Albatross, I couldn't agree more. I devil advocate myself everyday.
I do question if my new relationship is just LBS script. Am I trying to dull the pain just like my husband? It's slightly different as I have been best friends with my boyfriend for 8+ years, unlike the MLCers who seem to just meet and jump in with OP.
Usually MLCers having relationships with old flames, generally with people which they know, and misery push them there. All start benign and after they infatuate...
I'm very honest with bf, he has been by my side throughout all this mess. Again, I'm happier when he is around, so why fight it?
Same they think. Instead solong internal problems they flow.
Will Husband try to come back?
Majority will try if they have option in that time.
What will I do if he tries to come back?
Nobody knows that when and if that happens.
Will I be able to trust him if he comes back?
In the beginning no, for sure, but time will answer on that question. Once is for sure, bith of You will never take each other for grant.
Was my marriage real, or was he always a cheat and was I just blind to his actions?
LBS can rewrite history as anyone else. I did question my self about that too. Most likely truth is in the middle of extremes. Our marriage was not excellent one neither bad one. We love each other as much as we was capable to do so.
Is MLC real or just an excuse?
If you ask me, it is real, but is extremely hard to emphatize with MLCer.
Should I leave a man that I KNOW I can count on for one that walked away so easily??
and....
Each of us have light and shadow personality. Man who easily walk away from You was shadow of self, means opposite of self.
If MLC is real, should it be treated as an illness? Am I being just as bad as husband for giving up so easily???
MLC is real IMO and should be treat as illness. MLCers does not want help because they are long time depressed and they do not know that they are depressed, slowly long time they dive in depression, so they assume that they are in normal state. Also some of them knows that is something very terrible happening to them and refuse to ask professional help because that then think that they will get a lot diagnosis. Actually in case of MLcers I strongly believe that they will get a lot different diagnosis and that is the reasons why does not exists MLC as diagnosis.
And finally, please do not get it as any kind of critics, we are all just human beings and we are all fragile and strong, we all have light and shadow, bad and good. Hopefully You get at least some of answers. I am looking forward to answer on more if you have them.
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And finally, please do not get it as any kind of critics, we are all just human beings and we are all fragile and strong, we all have light and shadow, bad and good. Hopefully You get at least some of answers. I am looking forward to answer on more if you have them.
I would never be critical of anybody who has an opinion on this forum even if it differs from mine. That's why we are here. Thank you for your answers unfortunately the only people who can really answer most of these questions are my husband and myself. Right now, I'm not sure which one of us is more confused.
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This thread is great, I have just caught up!
I was thinking about if I am stuck? I'm 2,5 years since he left, in the midst of a divorce settlement and when I have to deal with him, communication is minimal even though he stays at my house once a week, I feel a resurgence of emotion and confusion etc. so I think I'm moving through the stages (think I am slower than most??:-/) but slip back when I have to deal with him. Many, whether standing or in new Rs talk of confusion and that's what I struggle with. Having to read someone else's behaviour, someone you thought you knew so well.
My script is similar to many: What? You're leaving? But I thought we were working things out? Why did you get Sky installed when you've decided to leave? You've been unhappy for ten years? So our whole R has been fake? It's all my fault? I was a cr@p wife, too needy, too insecure, too strong, too miserable, too ... It's all my fault. I should have changed my name when we got married, I was being too feminist. It's all my fault, I am bonkers, a pain to live with, too volatile, not appreciative enough.
Then, I take responsibility for my part in the negative aspects of our R. We are all flawed, good/bad, happy/grumpy, nasty/loving, lazy/motivated etc.
Then there is the lbs script for ow: they're totally in love, besotted with each other, she's thinner, prettier, cleverer, more ambitious, go getting, motivated than me. No wonder he left me for her. But she's so young, like a child, annoying, irritating, too thin ... It's creepy he's middle aged bloke with young woman in her twenties who looks even younger.
It's a confusing ping pong and somedays I still feel desperately heartbroken. But on the good days I sense my memories fading, I don't remember what it was like to have him here and I find myself imaging life with someone new. Someone new to share my family with. I wish with all my heart that we could be a family again but I also feel a little delusional to think it might happen. He seems so into ow all settled in their flat with a room for my kids. Albatross I was lifted by your comment that you feel most MLCers will want to return at some point. 2,5 years and I've had no hint. So I can see how you get to the latter stages of lbs recovery and feel energised and ready to move on. Such a shame MLC takes so long.
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Hi Thirsty Duck,
I can honestly say that the numbness or wall that I had built around my heart is gone. I feel like I am completely enveloped in my love for my new guy. It has taken a lot of mental work to feel like I can trust him wholly, not that he has given me any reason not to trust him. I guess it's a matter of once bitten, twice shy. It helps immensely that he knows everything about my exH and how it ended. He helped support me a lot. I have never felt as close or as connected to someone as I do with my fiancee. Not even with my exH. It seems to get better every day. So yes, you will get to a point where you can be whole and give your whole heart to someone new, if that is what you want.
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Hi All:
Strange occurrence other day, phone # popped up on my cell looked familiar but I couldn't quite place it, it was probably 15 minutes before I realized it was X's work #.
I guess this moving on really does work
Peace to you all
Mac
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It does Mac. I don't have my h's name in my phone anymore. Every once in a while he will call me and it will take me a minute or two to recognize the number. Maybe in a few more months it will take me 15 minutes to realize who was calling. ::)
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I haven't read this whole thread (here) but I went over the Divorcebusting thread that was recommended, and Here's the Goldmine post I found from user "Bworl"
stage One - Frickin' Hell
Can't eat, can't sleep. Can't listen to music, can't watch movies. Obsessed with knowing everything that your spouse is doing. Hang on every word your spouse speaks. Write or verbalize numerous pledges to become a better person. Read everything you can on the sanctity of marriage and how to save a marriage, and actually think there is something to be gained by sharing all of it with your spouse. Willing to appeal to any and all friends and family in an effort to "reach" your spouse. Emotions run the gamut: fear, anger, depression, anxiety, hopelessness.
Stage Two - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.. At some point a little bit of knowledge finally creeps into the picture. May come thru a friend or family member, or maybe something you've been reading. You realize the first two fundamental truths - 1) You're not perfect, and 2) You can't control what another person chooses to do.
In this stage we start to try to improve ourselves, but it's mostly improvement done to try to win our spouses affection. We stop pressuring, we stop pleading, begging, etc, and try being nice and giving them a little space.
Unfortunately, our spouse responds to the change by doing or saying something nice or thoughtful back to us. This is unfortunate because we jump at the crumb thrown our way and reach out again, get summarily rejected, and generally wind up back in stage one again.
Stage Three - "Fool Me once, Shame on You..."
After a period of time working thru stage one again, we move on to this stage where we are now a little wiser to the ways of the MLC spouse. We begin to understand that niceness CAN lead to niceness in return, but that it does NOT change how our spouse feels fundamentally.
We renew our focus on ourselves, this time with less of the motivation coming from our desire to impress our spouse and more of it coming from a genuine desire to rediscover the person we always hoped we would be. We begin to venture out into the world again, start focusing a bit better on work and friends.
We are less inclined to obssess about our spouse, but it's still there. Ocasionally it rears it's head, usually when we are surprised with another hurtful revelation, and this can still send us back to stage one or two for a refresher course.
Two key things happen here. First, we actually begin to see some personal progress that we feel good about. Secondly, that progress establishes a determination that will fuel us forward.
Stage Four - "How Long Does It Take Again to Establish a New Habit?"
Practice does not always make perfect, but regular practice does eventually establish a habit. Making progress in ourselves causes us to want to make more progress. We begin remembering things we always thought we would do or try and realize that we now have that opportunity. Slowly but surely we begin chipping away at the rust that had accumulated on the person we once were, and we begin to like the return of the old, energetic self.
We still hold out hope that our spouse will be a part of our life again. But we've also reached a point of honesty and realized that our relationship had become something less than what it once was. We can see that both spouses had let hurts, disappointments, and laziness diminish the love and commitment that we started out with. We acknowledge inside ourselves that both of us truly had much that needed worked on and improved.
Despite the love we still have for our spouse, we've begun to entertain the notion that it might just be possible to still have a full and meaningful life, even if they choose to never return.
These are just some of my weird thoughts about the process, and of course they come from my experiences, which are not necessarily the same as others.
These are my sentiments/experiences exactly.
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Thanks SwiftCovenant, that actually sounded like how my situation went down. Unbelievable. Loved it.
Hugs Stayed
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Why oh why when I have just started to have fun, make friends, go out, feel attractive and generally started to relax and be normal, does he decide to get the most suicidal he has ever been???
After a lovely time with our kids a couple of weeks ago, this week he almost decided to leave them forever.
Does us moving on really have such an affect or am I reading into it too deeply?
I must not get back on the roller coaster :(
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Hmm, I am so sorry! Please do not get back onto that Roller Coaster. Don't let him drag you back into his drama..
hugs Stayed
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Yep, Stayed, I could have written that post. My EXACT experience.
Hmmm...I keep dealing with suicidal understones from H from time to time...sometimes outright overtones. Just when I'm going along just fine I get "poor me" phone calls, e-mails, or visits where he talks about wanting to "check out." A few months ago...just when I was getting back on my feet emotionally more...he stops by the house and admits that a motorcycle accident he had two years ago was a suicide attempt. As time went on he has downplayed that. I believe for the most part suicidal talk is attention-seeking behavior even if there is an attempt. They know that most compassionate human beings will not ignore suicidal talking/gestures/attempts, and if we do they can paint us as heartless even if it's just in their own minds.
The manipulative behaviors of these MLCers know no limits. I'm convinced if someone truly wants to commit suicide they will do it without engaging us in any drama. Yes, we know this is depression, and that suicide is a real possibility, but over and over again talking/gestures without success is, most of the time, purely attention-seeking manipulative behavior.
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Yea, the old suicidal talk... I got that one too. Actually my h was much more subtle, he planted the seed in the minds of his secretary and some people who worked for him. I called there one time and they were all in a panic, crying, out looking for him. It was total attention seeking. I was shocked, I certainly never expected him to go to that extent. They were asking me, "what should we do?" When I said, relax, there is no way he will "off" himself... I know they thought I was the coldest,biatch in the world. The truth is, I knew my h couldn't do that. He can't stand a simple cramp in his big toe. So the very idea that he might hang or shoot or overdose himself... NAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... of course if he had done so, I would have felt pretty damn awful.
Don't let your MLCer hold you hostage. If your MLC "offs" him/herself...there is nothing you could have done to prevent him from doing that. He / she is just "sicker" then you thought.
Hugs Stayed
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Exactly.
The ex pulled that on me also a couple of times. Whatever they can do for attention. Never liked to prick his finger to draw blood to test for diabetes.
Less contact- less drama. No audience no behavior.
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It's so strange this time because he's had to miss work and will be very humiliated. Formula one racing is his whole life and he's never been off ill for a race.
Currently I have no idea what country he is even in.
I've seen a couple of friends to distract myself but I really need to drop the rope as I was doing previously.
In my heart I knew he wouldn't do it on S15s birthday but I panicked when he said he was trying and then I had no word for 4 hours (during which time we were singing happy birthday and I was trying to keep a happy face). He isn't a drama queen but reading this back it sure did make a big impact.
Thanks for the support guys
X
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Ok - I am reviving this thread to really focus in on the feelings that an LBS goes through.
Earlier posts on this thread identify the various stages of an LBS journey - one serious and one tongue in cheek.
This thread is to explore the feelings that we all go through. It is not about our MLCers and I know that many will want to post their responses to the MLCer actions. This is not going to help explore the feelings.
We are all told "focus on you"- but what does that actually mean? This thread ironically is not about actions so saying GAL, say this or do this are useful for your personal threads but how do you focus on you? How do you deal with your feelings?
As we all progress through our respective MLC crises, we go through a huge range of feelings and those feelings change, fluctuate, go away, return, bounce around etc….
I see so many lines saying “ Why am I feeling this way, I should be over this feeling by now”
Or “Why do I feel so hurt?”
Or “when will this anger leave me alone?”
Or “ Do I still love him , I feel nothing.”
Or “ I feel empty”
As you move into BD +1 yr or +2 years or more, what about those feelings?
What about LBS feelings when hit with a D? What about LBS feelings with a stay at home MLCer/vanisher?
What about LBS feelings when MLCer goes into LIMBO?
What about LBS feelings when and if liminality hits?
What about feelings when reconnecting?
This is about digging deeper, recognising and owning our own feelings as well as discovering that we are not alone in our feelings. In a way we have our own script so let's own what we are and how we feel.
To kick start this - I am going to put on a link to a podcast from thriveology.com. This podcast is about grief - what it is and what we feel. It talks about the struggle and really hits home for the feelings of a newbie LBSer and even those of us who are well into this will recognise this.
http://thriveology.com/moving-through-grief
Please keep your posts to about you and your feelings and really aim to keep comments about your MLCer to a minimum. This thread is to help you really focus on you, just you and you alone.
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As you move into BD +1 yr or +2 years or more, what about those feelings?
What about LBS feelings when hit with a D? What about LBS feelings with a stay at home MLCer/vanisher?
What about LBS feelings when MLCer goes into LIMBO?
What about LBS feelings when and if liminality hits?
What about feelings when reconnecting?
Speaking for myself, feelings were still rocky until year 4+. Different from BD, but still rocky. And the pain of BD was still rememberable. Now I do not recall the pain of BD, I do not know why I was upset about OW1 (OW2 never upset me, she come along publicly around the 2 years mark since Mr J left). Currently I have pretty much forgot what type of feeling I had for years since Mr J left. I know it was anger, pain, grief, but I can no longer take myself back to those times and to how I felt by then.
Mr J had been turned into a vanisher, mostly because I start to cut more and more contact until I drop it all was a relief. He started as a clinger, than was a boomerang, than on-off. The other types of contact were tyring and consumed too much energy. For me the low downsize is that we are still legally married and have to still deal with legalities more than 8 years down the road is taking time and energy from other things.
Having Mr J in limbo used to infuriate me. No movement. At least none I wanted. Nor make it or break it, nothing. Now I'm just indifferent. It become boring.
No idea how about feelings when the MLCer hits liminality or about reconnection. And I don't think I want to know. My frame of mind is elsewhere now. No space to deal with a broken person anymore.
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I am at 5.5 years post official BD. Overall, I am doing really well. I still have days where I am sad. I still have moments of anger. My MLCer still lives at home, festering away in the basement so sometimes the daily interaction (or lack thereof) gets to me, but I have two kids to raise and a life to live.
One thing I have recognized throughout this process is that, as LBS, we NEED to allow ourselves to face and to feel our emotions. If we are grieving, we need to grieve. If we are angry, it is okay, as long as it doesn't consume us. As long as we don't wallow. As long as we don't allow it to rule our lives. Yes, early on it will be overwhelming, but I really do feel that allowing ourselves to experience the emotions and not try to shove them down or think we "should" be past feeling a certain way does help us to heal. I think it is necessary for healing, in fact.
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I am now 3 years post bomb drop. For me I think the feelings have changed because I can clearly see that he is simply not the same person I used to know. I had idealized my husband back to the man I knew when we first met in 1984. My assessment of him had stood still, that is to say I loved him with the same passionate fervor I had in 1984. It had not dawned on me that he is simply not the same person. He is no longer an idealist. He is a bitter self absorbed old man. It took me years after bomb drop to come to the realization, and it came to me sometime after he told me that I am old, and I am no longer "useful" to him. I keep hoping for a miraculous recovery, I keep wondering when he is going to wake up, or if he is going to wake up. Honestly I dont know if he will ever wake up, it is impossible to hold a rational conversation with him at this point, everything he says about other people is sarcastic and negativistic. Poor guy, he has aged badly. I hope to never be like that. I try to be positive and optimistic, and to make the best of whatever I have.
So in a sense I have failed at only talking about me. I think for the LBS my change in feelings is profoundly linked to my perception of the permanency of his changes.
When we talk I try to dig for some sort of conversation which reminds me of him, but I cannot find it. More and more he seems like a stranger, an imposter who has taken over my husbands body. Periodically I wonder if he is ill, the personality changes are so drastic, so inexplicable. If someone told me he has a brain tumor I would believe him. It makes me want to shake him and ask What have you done with my husband? Where have you hid him? I do believe there was a time when he cared for and about his children, when he loved his family. That person is long gone. This affects the emotions I feel toward him, which cycle constantly between disbelief and acceptance.
As for divorce it was something I really really dreaded. I never wanted a divorce, was horrified by the idea. In the end I did it for self protection. I had seen various LBS get seriously attacked by the MLCer at the four year mark, and I jumped ship early to make sure he couldn't do that. Afterwards I felt an enormous sense of relief although it took several months to recover from the anxiety I had felt prior to the divorce. Now I am grateful that I am divorced, mostly because I know he can no longer hurt me in the same way. I am safe now. I no longer have to worry if he goes into debt or doesnt pay his taxes, as I am no longer responsible for his actions. If he wants to hang out with prostitutes it is no longer my problem. It just makes me feel sad for him, such a shame, he is an intelligent well read man, he has been unemployed for almost two years and seems to have no plan for his future. It is as if he is happy not to work and just have OW provide for him. He has no plans, no ambitions, no goals. So I feel sad and I feel sorry. It is a waste.
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I am now 3 years post bomb drop. For me I think the feelings have changed because I can clearly see that he is simply not the same person I used to know. I had idealized my husband back to the man I knew when we first met in 1984. My assessment of him had stood still, that is to say I loved him with the same passionate fervor I had in 1984. It had not dawned on me that he is simply not the same person. He is no longer an idealist. He is a bitter self absorbed old man. It took me years after bomb drop to come to the realization...
Very similar to me. It is 3.5 years since BD. I have been a little blue the past month [triggers--anniversary, contact] but I think I am beginning to accept that he's gone. I might have to let go of all hope before I am free.
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So in a sense I have failed at only talking about me. I think for the LBS my change in feelings is profoundly linked to my perception of the permanency of his changes.
When we talk I try to dig for some sort of conversation which reminds me of him, but I cannot find it. More and more he seems like a stranger, an imposter who has taken over my husbands body. Periodically I wonder if he is ill, the personality changes are so drastic, so inexplicable. If someone told me he has a brain tumor I would believe him. It makes me want to shake him and ask What have you done with my husband? Where have you hid him? I do believe there was a time when he cared for and about his children, when he loved his family. That person is long gone. This affects the emotions I feel toward him, which cycle constantly between disbelief and acceptance.
As someone who is only 19 months post BD, I think this is what scares me the most. The first year I was so sure at some point he would "wake up". The girl is crazy, I stepped back early and gave him his needed space. I made changes within myself, became stronger, more confident, more independent. I figured if I let him go, he would come back. We are officially divorced this week. Is it really over? Can someone change so quickly and drastically and just stay there?
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H and I are currently reconnecting. I think that I might have always thought that the mirror work stopped when the mission was accomplished - H came home. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it hasn't. In fact, I am a little protective of my personal space now and make sure that I spend some time 'turning down the noise' because I realised that I need that.
He is an early returner by some standards but who really knows. This had beginnings in 2008 so his limbo and lost state became sort of normal. Major BD in Jan 2013 puts this history into perspective a bit more. It was also the catalyst for my journey. I felt the cycling and my own form of liminality. I remember standing in the shower and realising that I was terrified to let go because I didn't think I would ever get off the floor.
My D13 (at the time) told me that she was waiting for me to breathe out. I know that I operated on auto for the first year. I am very much peeling back layers now and I think I would be at this stage if H was here or not. I recognise my journey at separate to his, although I initially thought it was all about him.
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Think that we all reach acceptance on a different time line.
I know that I denied, fought against it for a very long time. There are times when I don't even know for sure if I have reached it. As I approach four years after BD in December, I perceive that I am functional and although I wouldn't really say I am relaxed and happy with my reality, I definitely have happy moments and life does go on with its many and varied challenges (many of which have nothing to do with MLC/marriage breakdown).
I have changed, I have been humbled and broken, I have learned to see that others have it much worse than me and that has made me more empathetic. I am also more cynical unfortunately, no more rose colored glasses for me.
I have always been very independent and this just underlined it. On the other hand, the humbling part is that because we share children, it is not possible to be totally independent! This is what always terrified me about having children and I used to think that I only succumbed to having a family when h. reassured me that he would always help me with them. Nowadays, my thinking is not so limited and I see God's hand in this. As Xyzcf has quoted her priest saying: 'What if God's purpose in this is the salvation of someone?'
I will not give up hope but my hope is not in my h., it is in God or better, faith in God who says He will give me hope and a future...
I will not stop praying for my h. (and OW) for that is the ONLY thing I can do. As for the rest, I carry on living :)
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Great idea to resurrect this thread to focus on the LBS.
I am BD + 18mths . Gosh is is weird to see that written down . I remember when I landed here my mind was a mass of confusion because nothing was making sense . I was surrounded by people telling me what to do and I felt completely out of control .
When I first read OP's welcome and it said to work on myself I remember thinking I don't want to work in myself I just want my H back . I swirled around and around for about a month and I decided that I needed help . I hated feeling out of control and I needed to be able to focus . I found a counselor and I was very lucky to strike gold with her , I then went to the GP and got some anti depressants .
Her calming voice and the medication helped me start to focus , I have to admit I did not focus on me to start with it was all about H but then I started to see how things that were happening now were tied in with my childhood , old fears and insecurities where back in the front of my mind . I have always been very upfront with my emotions and I think that helped me a lot , I remember saying to my IC that I needed to move on because people were telling me that was what I needed to do . She asked is that what you want and I said no , we talked and what became clear was that I did not want to become a victim , that thought was kept me going . I refused to become bitter that is not who I am .
Very early on I realised that I had to learn to say no , people thought I needed to be taken out or visited and sometimes I just wanted to be on my own . I still do . I told people that I was very grateful for the offer but on this occasion I would no . I told people I did not mean to offend them but I needed to be able to say no without feeling guilty .
I would say that now I can honestly say I am happy , I have moment of joy and moments of sadness but I am happy and I have a good life . Over the last 18 months I have gone through all of the stages of grieve and I have reached my own acceptance . Acceptance of what happened and why it happened . I feel that I know myself so much better than I ever did and I am happy with who I am .
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Interesting thoughts here.... I too in the beginning "was different" yes this was MLC but my H was "at the end", I was different than everyone else on this forum and my H was different...our life was different!!
That was my first real awakening :) nope we are all the same. Not literally of course but we/I was in the middle of my H's crisis and I needed to learn "what I needed in this life"
Once I truly realized "THIS is now about ME" that is when the real change happened. I could do nothing to hurt or help BUT ....I could really find me. I figured out who I was for the first time in my 50+ years of life, kind of crazy but true.
I am still a work in progress but I love myself :)
31andcounting
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I never knew what focus on me meant at first--I'd been in a couple for so long that I'd lost that, what selfishness?
I do think we have to understand mlc before we can get that it is not the fault of the lbs. Once we understand mlc, we can detach, regain the lost self-esteem & get back our normal selves. Of course none of this process is linear. No formula for healing here--just a long slog with many wrong turns & doubling back.
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I had always thought "focus on me" was selfish also. At least in the terms of how society seems to be me, me, me these days. But I was fortunate in that I found this site very early after bomb drop and so much of it sounded like exactly what was happening that it gave me incentive to try the advice.
But I will admit that at first I was still doing it for him. At the time I was too crushed to care about me so I had to make up a carrot to wave in front of myself and that was to keep going and save the house and become strong so that there would be something left for him to come back to. Plus in reading the few success stories, the ones who had gotten theirs back had made themselves into stronger people so I wanted to go with what had worked. Now two years later I'm trying to figure out how not to have him come back.
But I would have to admit I didn't think I would be different as things seemed to be playing out as described. I had a wallower who stayed at home for two years before leaving. But it was always in the back of my mind that the articles said they would live in their man cave and not really be a part of the relationship (check) and that they would set a deadline in the future for leaving (check--and I knew that was happening as he never unpacked fully from when he left the first time and then and returned) and that when they did move it was often in with family (check--at least that was his plan until some coworkers sidetracked him). So none of it has really been a surprise.
One thing I did notice was he did seem to be making efforts to reconnect the first year and I was not that reinforcing as I was confused as to if I SHOULD want him back due to his behavior even before BD. Plus I really didn't see enough changes or believe in it too much. I also didn't feel ready to be strong enough yet not to slip back into old habits. So I wasn't very proactive in that and we basically just co-existed in a civil manner. It was really a limbo and near the end I was anxious not to have to deal with it anymore and felt neither of us would make progress unless he left so it was not really heartbreaking to have him go. (And I also learned that some of what I thought was reconnecting he was doing for entirely opposite reasons so I don't feel too bad about not responding favorably.)
He also built in some circumstances to his leaving that assure continued contact (check). But in his mind right now he is hoping we each find someone new. I actually feel rather freed by it and have a bucket list of things I want to do that he wouldn't do with me before. I don't see a future with someone who doesn't ever want to do anything so unless he comes out the other end of this as a new person I think I would be stifling my life to be with him again. And I'm not totally convinced I wasn't just a convenience for him all those years. But I feel like at the moment I have not closed the door on him completely--just on the relationship. I am now planning the "me" time and not looking for anyone new.
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Your need to start working on you.
Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Recognise this? This is part of OP's welcome to the board.
Thanks to those who have contributed already - your comments about how you feel now are invaluable and perhaps we can split those comments into a thread about feelings at BD+ 3yrs.
What about the feelings that you had as a newbie or rather at or just after BD?
For me, I remember feeling utterly bewildered at the first mini BD which was 2 weeks before the main one. I remember being in a panic and rushing home to see if H had changed. I remember feeling as though I was walking on glass shards not eggshells. I remember crying and feeling isolated. The fear before the main BD was incredible especially when H supposedly went away for two days on his own before writing me the BD letter. I was so afraid I was throwing up and a complete and utter pale shadow of myself. I am by nature an impatient person(yes I'm working on it) but that dissipated completely in my fear and I was waiting upon H's every breath and movement.
When the main BD happened I remember asking H if the letter would change us irrevocably and feeling so lost when he said yes.
When I read the letter I remember the confusion, the shock , the incredulity that he would write such a letter. I remember being utterly stunned at seeing my H crying and finally I remember feeling so sick when he put his hands up as I walked towards him and he screamed " Don't touch me I don't want you near me."
I remember feeling as though the plug in my bowl of life had been pulled and I was whirling downwards in a vortex. A vortex that had no life raft or sense of direction.
Please help the newbies understand that their feelings are normal when BD happens. What is your experience of your feelings at BD?
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It is different for me as I had come to romance late in life and had a history of being dumped by people. So the feeling was all too familiar and I knew where it would lead and I didn't want to go there any more. So I went into survival mode and read everything I could and booked nights out with friends and tried to keep from being destroyed. But there were still times when I would go into hysteria because I had thought I had finally found a good one and had put so much into it and now every plan was shattered. I don't believe I ate or slept.
At one point I set 3 goals of what to do each day that were simple yet seemingly impossible. One was to do the dishes (control of the environment, accomplishment), the other was to take the dogs for a walk (exercise plus making another being happy) and the third was to eat something. I had a box of frozen breakfast burritos on hand and would attempt to eat one twice a day. I remember taking a bit and trying to swallow without the food touching the inside of my mouth as it was all so nauseating. I went through boxes of them as it was all I ate for a few months but to this day the very thought of one makes me ill.
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At one point I set 3 goals of what to do each day that were simple yet seemingly impossible
That's just perfect SK. The simplest things seem the hardest and yet it is that which helps us face each day.
The food thing also resonated with me - all I did was eat hot oat cereal as I knew that oats were slow burning and that one bowl a day could keep me going - no wonder I lost weight.
I went off, and still am, off red meat and only ate chicken rarely. Veg and fruit were all I could manage after a few months.
Survival mode but the similarities are so interesting.
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I remember for the first couple of days not only could I not eat I could not drink anything . Nothing tasted the same as it had before . Eventually I drank some chai tea . It was weeks before I could stomach coffee .
Through my ups and downs I lived on baked potatoes . It was my go to meal when I felt low . It is amazing how many potatoes I went through and how thin I got . People said I looked haunted and that they could see no colour in me .
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Everything tasted like cardboard for a long time. I used to eat one bagel and it took me all day to eat it. I tried to drink coffee but it make me too shaky. I one life water per day because I thought I needed water and vitamins. It took me all day to drink that too. I moved on to breakfast and meal bars. I ate two of those a day sometimes.
I really have no clue how I survived the first few months. I don't remember a lot. I sat on the patio a lot just staring off in space.
I set 3 goals per day too. 1) Get out of bed 2) shower 3) eat something. I obviously failed on the eating part because I lost 60 lbs.
You would think that I would be used to it since H has left for the 4th time. Somehow I think I knew this time was going to be it for me. I knew I wasn't going to let him come back until he changed.
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My H asked me to sit & began his BD speech. I could see his mouth moving & heard the words he was saying but I was surely mistaken; these could not be the words my H was saying. I was in shock for two or three days, not eating, not sleeping; I didn't even call family or friends. I was filled with thoughts of trying to find the apt in the neighboring town that my H had said he was going to live in with the OW. I thought I could find him by just driving around aimlessly & seeing his car. What I would do then, I don't think I knew, but I actually didn't have any energy to go anywhere.
I then became agitated & manic. I had panic attacks & called my H, who was actually quite concerned at that point. I paced our home day & night, crying & moaning, clutching my stomach. I told someone I felt like I had been kicked in the head & punched in the gut. The pain was physical & emotional & mental. At one point I felt my depression rapidly deepen; all was pain & darkness & despair. I didn't know how I could survive long like this. Miraculously, as quickly as it descended, it lifted back to my depressed baseline. It was a glimpse of hell I don't know how anyone could survive.
My H had agreed to see a counselor with me & because of my reaction he arranged to move the appt up a couple of days, which meant we went to a different office. When I arrived, I sat in my car staring at the counselor's sign, paranoid, because I believed that perhaps my H had arranged to have the appt in that town because there was a psychiatric hospital there & he would try to have me committed.
I lost a great deal of weight & didn't even realize it until my pants began sliding off my body & my wedding ring would constantly fall off my finger. I lived on soups & yogurt. The obsessive, racing thoughts were overwhelming. There was no thought in my mind except for that of H & OW & "the situation". I couldn't focus on anything else; I don't know how I drove around without an accident, my mind was so distracted. I searched the internet obsessively for a couple of weeks to find a picture of a heart with a dagger through it to have tattooed on the left side of my chest.
Soooo, pretty seriously crazy for 3-4-6 months! I tell people I'm not sure what a nervous breakdown is, but I'm pretty sure I had one. I began sleeping some & very, very slowly, but steadily it improved. I began talking to people; actually I talked to everyone I came into contact with. Every day I had a mental list--who could I call tonight to get me through the long hours. I continued with my counselor weekly & he provided a framework (not too unlike MLC) that immediately informed me that none of this was my fault, that H was likely depressed with poor self-esteem & that his "new R" was a completely unhealthy, addictive one. So, I spent very little time blaming myself. I've never had much anger, although everyone kept telling me I should be angry, that it would help me.
I had much more anxiety than anger. The triggers were everywhere--everything in our house, all the music, anything on TV we had watched together, any photos, the constant flow of memories of our long R. Downloading e-mail was awful, because just seeing H's name pop up would cause panic. Just knowing he had been to our property caused anxiety attacks. Some attacks were random; I had to leave church services more than once due to anxiety attacks. I had to teach a class a week after BD & had others scheduled for the next two months. In each class I relived the anxiety of the first one & I had to resign from teaching the craft classes I loved so much.
I survived all of this because I am a very stable person, I am a very mature person, I had good RL support & an excellent counselor, & because I intuitively knew that the quick fixes of alcohol, drugs, or rebound R's would only hurt me. I instinctively knew that I had to walk straight through the flames of this tortuous pain; there was no other way.
I found The Hero's Spouse six months after BD. It has filled out my understanding of what has happened to my H & to me, it gave me the wondrous support of LBS's from around the world, & it has given me the task of passing on that support & understanding to others.
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Everything tasted like cardboard for a long time.
Absolutely
I lost 30 lbs in about six weeks. I didn't really need to lose weight either ::)
My stomach was always clenching and my digestive problems really flared up. I felt faint a lot, I actually collapsed one night and bruised my forehead on the fridge while I was trying to get some cold water to drink in the middle of the night. Palpitations at any time of the day...
The weight crept back up on me after three years.
I didn't even want to come home from work in the beginning, I felt I had no place to call my own,completely uncomfortable in my own skin.
I would wake all night and the worst time was getting up in the morning. He wasn't there. Nobody to make me breakfast, all the dishes from the night before in the sink. It still is hard but I thank God that I have dishes to wash, I take pride in leaving the kitchen tidy in the morning as I leave for work before anybody else.
The first year was very hard, full of 'firsts' - very, very difficult and heart wrenching. I hope I never have to go through that again. I look forward now and endeavor to leave the past behind.
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Thanks to those who have contributed already - your comments about how you feel now are invaluable and perhaps we can split those comments into a thread about feelings at BD+ 3yrs.
Think it is fine to leave everything here. It will allow for a better understandment of how we all change with time.
What about the feelings that you had as a newbie or rather at or just after BD?
I always managed to eat and drink. In fact I cooked delicious meals to myself. It has been months since I knew Mr J had been lying and that his wanting to leave, and then leave, was because there was someone else. OW1 was not the big surprise, the crazy behaviour was.
But I also had what I now know were anxiety attacts and I would go to round and around and around walks, sometimes quite late at night, up and down the hills (we also lived on top of a hill in the capital).
I did not told a thing to my family until February 2007, when my youngest sister wanted to stay for a few days. I spend Christmas 2006 alone and, surprisingly, I liked it.
What I could not understand was what was going on. It was not like any affair I had heard of. And the violence towards me, the one moment is tears, the other is smile, the other is rage. I was super confused, even because Mr J said, before and after he left, he was depressed.
If he was depressed, and knew it, and if there were doctors willing to help, why didn't he accept the help? Nothing made sense to me.
For me the route was to go out as much as possible, sometimes 7 days a week. To dance, to concerts. In a way it could be said I was mimicing my MLCer. Not that, by then, I had a clue Mr J was a MLCer, or that I was mimicing him.
I remember I had lots of emotions running wild. I'm not used to have emotions running wild, I was feeling things I had never felt before and that I still don't know how to label. It was a very confusing, turbulent, painful but also fun period. I had a lot of fun on the early years.
The other thing I remember is that I did not knew that man I was faced with. I still do not know the current Mr J.
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I know I must have eaten on those first few months because I'm still here, but I don't remember doing it. I think I lived on a strange cocktail of tea, Diet Coke, and yogurt. The stress was phenomenal: I couldn't sleep, and my guts were a mess. I dropped around 70 pounds.
Mostly I cried. He was horrible after BD and would disappear for days without a word. I never knew when he would be home. It reached the point where I would check for his breathing machine in the morning, if it was gone, I assumed I wouldn't see him for a few days.
A friend of mine mentioned to me that I would find myself doing some really weird stuff. One of the first things I did was purge my underwear drawer in a feeble attempt to win him back (this before I knew he is MLC). I finished painting a bathroom that he started but abandoned. I painted another room in my house. And I burned things. I would sit for hours at my fire pit.
Slowly I got myself off the floor and started living. I remember vividly standing in the shower one morning crying (not unusual) then suddenly smacking my hand against the wall and saying "I love me. I deserve better than this!" For the first time, is believed myself.
God knows there were a lot more tears, but that morning was a turning point for me. I started living for myself and began the slow process of detachment. That probably took about a year because we were still living together and he was emotionally abusing me. I also had an enormous setback when my mom died unexpectedly. His treatment of me during that period was ultimately the final straw. He tried to be kind. He told me for the only time during 2013 that he loved me. I know he did that day, but in retrospect he was barely in the tunnel. Two months later, he wanted to come home. I have him a chance but was detached enough to know it was too soon and that he wouldn't be able to play by my rules. We made it 5 days. On Thanksgiving when he admitted he was contacting OW, again, I asked him to leave. It was just a matter of time before they were back together.
Since then my life has become truly mine. I still had a lot letting go to do: I finally dropped the emotional rope in June of this year, more than a year after BD. My life is now about me and I am happy.
The first year is horrible. We have all kinds of painful anniversaries to get through. Somehow we manage, and each one seems to get a little bit easier. I am now just a couple of weeks away from my final "first", the day I asked him to leave. Its hard to believe we've been separated for a full year. But a realized the other day that I have another "first" on December 4 (his birthday, ironically). He officially moved out that day and since I didn't want to be around the house, some friends took me away for the weekend. It was that day that I impulsively jumped off a loading dock into the arms of one of my guy friends. I realized exactly what I was doing: setting myself free and taking a very literal leap of faith.
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Mendusa,
I don't remember eating either the first few months after BD, but like you said... must have because I'm still here.
I do remember oranges, lot's of oranges. Some only half eaten but they seemed to be the only thing I could stomach. I lost 50 pounds.
The other things I remember from that very dark time was, seeing in a sleeping bag on my bed for weeks. Stayed in my room for hours crying and so confused. My hands trembled all the time and my stomach actually hurt from being so tight. Like someone grabbed my stomach and wouldn't let go.
I think it was about a year when I finally realized I needed some help. I was walking in the park and was getting this "out of body" experience. Like I was going to fall or faint. I stopped dead in my tracks and said out loud...Thunder you are NOT ok!!! I ended up at the clinic sobbing my heart out. I was a mess.
That was when I saw a counselor for the first time. She was nice but not the right fit for me. Said too many times "well, people just change." ::) I would try to tell her I understood that but I do not believe people change THAT dramatically, that quickly. You don't lose your core self.
The second counselor understood me a little better. He was probably in his 50's. After a few sessions I asked him if he ever felt he went through a crisis. His answer was...Yup, that is how I ended up leaving my job and got into counseling. I needed a big change in my life. So he got it and did believe n MLC.
That all was so very long ago now. But I think maybe us sharing how we felt and what we did those early days may help new members realize how what they are feeling is perfectly normal. The shock does wear of after some time but does get better. Thoughts of suicide go away.
I feel I have changed so much since all this happened. I'm basically happy. Very rarely do I have a down day. I'm much healthier, mentally and physically, than I was 4 years ago. I'm so much stronger.
I wish I could have read all those articles in the beginning and believed them. It takes a long time to really get it.
Bottom line is:
You can't do or say anything that will change your spouses mind. I wasted so much time trying.
It is not your fault, you did nothing to cause this so don't take the blame.
You need to detach and live your life as if.
MLC takes time, you can not rush it. You can not fix it.
No expectations and no R talks.
It all makes perfect sense now. :)
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I am 3 years since BD. I have cycled like mad. Nowhere close to finding myself yet.
The first year after BD - well I cried and cried. I lost 30lbs in 3 months. He ran away and hid 4 months after BD but would come in an out of the house like he lived there still on his whim. I let him. I was so confused, scared and worried. He was around for all major holidays, birthdays and we even did a major trip together as a family.
I survived on Diet pepsi and chocolate almonds. I am not sure how I survived actually.
the 2nd year, found him angry and wanting to divorce but not really. He was angry, sick, mean a lot. He would then cycle towards us all and then disappear. He had found his main OW but was still playing the field. When he was with his OW, he became mean, angry, cold to me and one of the children. It is bizarre. I struggled lots with that. i couldn't grasp the cycling towards and away. It pained me to no end. I became even more confused and scared. I started to have health issues. Near the end of the 2nd year, he started to cycle way more towards me and the kids. I was so happy but scared to believe it.
As we started 2014, he ran away again to disappear and say he was sick alot. He started talking about being depressed and having dark thoughts. HIs anger moods were back. I became scared, wanting to help and feeling helpless. Lots of sleep was being lost for me. Then he started to cycle back again in February/March to run and hide for April. We went on a family holiday in May and I discovered exchanges between him and the spring. They were awful. I didn't recognize my that man spewing such horrible things to this woman. He lied to her, he said vile things, he threatened her. She was no princess back but it was shocking. He started to come towards me again. Asking for help, needing support but then he would back off as soon as he let me in. I honestly believed he was trying to find his way home. I knew he wasn't ready yet but he was fighting demons within him and she was one of them.
He then planned two family holidays for the summer. I was so secretly pleased and scared at the same time. could my real husband be trying to surface. We had a great few days on the first holiday and I think she must have contacted him. I don't know but the last morning, after he slept and snuggled me for 8 days he turned into that man that says one evil thing and then backtracks. He wanted a divorce, then he didn't. It went on and on.
Since then I have returned to the state of just surviving. I have not found my footing. He has disgarded me for good. He can't even acknowledge my existance to the children, to himself. He ignores me or hides from me at children's activities. The tears now come at a steady pace. I have never been more terrified of my life than ever in the 3 years that this has been happening. I can still smile and laugh but it is not as strong or as often. I can't sleep. I miss eveyrthing something fierce. I long for peace and stability. I long for him.
I have reason to believe he has moved in with his OW. I am shaken again. He crossed a line I never thought he would do. I have learned forgiveness throughout this but I am not sure I can forgive this. But what I have learned this week is that I haven't forgiven myself. I blame myself for failing. I feel like I failed as a wife, a friend and a Mother. This is where I think I need to work on this for myself. I think this is part of why my tears fall so fast and furious. I have no anger. I just have this huge sense of failure, sadness and loss.
So I think as a LBS, I don't think I have ever progressed through all the stages. I think mine kept get interuppted by his returns, his behaviour and then issues with the kids based on all this. I could be wrong. I don't really know. I just don't feel like I have moved very far from the pain and hurt and now this huge loss of not having him in any capacity in my life after 27 years. I had my first thanksgiving with out him, now it will be my first birthday, next it will be my first christmas...3 years after bd to have this....I think I am reliving year 1 but maybe with how it was supposed to be now.
It is hard.
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The other things that I remember from just after BD was not being able to watch any TV that reminded me of him or us . I think for months I watched reruns of Midsomer Murders and Agatha Christie. I could not read a book either , this was hard for me as I love to read .
When I had my last counseling session recently my IC wrote me a letter and read it to me , she talked about when we first met . I must admit I cried because going back to that place where I was just after BD was hard .
Callan
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Callan,
I still have not read a book since BD. My concentration is still not quite there. I used to read a LEAST a book a week.
Maybe that will be a sign I'm all healed. When I can read again. ;D
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I hardly read now too. My concentration and focus are just not there.
I used to have 3 books on the go, stashed all over the place. I am still working on a book he gave me for Christmas last year. It is a biography on one of my favourite singers. I would have normally devoured that book in days.
I found it took me a long time to be able to sit still in the house unless I was in my bedroom. My bedroom seems to be my safe place. It is weird. You would think I would want to hide from that room and all its memories.
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Another thing I remember was my H loved watching 2 1/2 Men, with Charlie Sheen. If you've seen that show Charlie Sheen played a ladies man. Had woman after woman. All gorgeous!
He was pretty crude when he talked about women like they were just sex objects.
My H would watch every show and laugh and laugh. Once I said to him...do you really think that was that funny?
He laughed even harder and said...yes!!!
He would never have thought what he was doing or saying was funny before. I mean funny in the sense that it was a comedy but not like it was believable or true. But like its how a man should be. Wild, free with tons of women every night with no commitment.
I truly think he was living vicariously through his character. That's how HE wanted to live.
He even bought some "Charlie" shirts. lol They looked like bowlng shirts.
Man, the odd things you remember.
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That is funny Thunder!
My H did too ......older H would of thought some of it was "way over board but tunnel H WOW it was his show!!!
Today's H does not think too much of it....ran it's course I guess.
31andcounting
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It will be three years next week for me since BD. Some days it still feels like a bad dream, that I will awake and everything will be as it was…but it isn’t a dream. It’s my new reality; it’s the world that many of us must now face.
We all get broken in one way or another in this life. It’s an unavoidable part of living. My early days after BD were ones of numbness - the weight loss, the anxiety & devastation, the disbelief & tears. My world was broken into a million pieces scattered at my feet. We do; however, have a choice about how we handle those breaks. Sometimes we get stuck in the brokenness and never heal. Or we try to pretend the brokenness is not there, driving it into our shadow where we act it out toward others without knowing why.
And then there are the times, like these, when we are forced to do the hard work to not only heal the broken pieces, but to make ourselves stronger than we were before. It is then that our scars become beautiful in the way they allow us to bring healing to the world around us. I've had to pick up each one of those broken pieces of my life, exam it, assess it, clean it up, and put them back together to recreate a new life for myself.
The Japanese art of Kintsugi repairs broken pottery with seams of gold and is a fitting metaphor for this last way of dealing with the broken places that life gives all of us. Kintsugi repairs the brokenness in a way that makes the vessel even more beautiful and valuable than it was prior to being broken.
I believe what was once my brokenness has now become my strength, my uniqueness, and my value. I have learned resolve; I have learned to believe in myself; I have learned to forgive; but most of all I have learned how to be more loving and compassionate.
I wrote my own personal mission statement about who I am and how I wanted to like my life. I have reaffirmed who I am - I am someone who believes that there are two ways to accomplish a task - do it right the first time or do it again. I believe that you should never give up on your dreams. I believe that without risk, life is boring. I believe that we are each responsible for creating our own happiness and that happiness comes from within. And most importantly, I believe that someone's true character shows through in the face of adversity and difficult choices. I will not compromise my values nor blindly accept anyone into my life who is disloyal, spiteful or spiritually uncommitted. As Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, “The time is always right to do what is right.”
I wrote out my bucket list and posted it on line for the world to see (www.buckelist.org). In the past three years, I have lived adventures and done things that I would have otherwise never done. Only the other day, I was reading about a how local entrepreneur has started a vacation/adventure company aimed at people looking to achieve their bucket dreams. He listed a number of adventures – bungee jumping at Victoria Fall, Africa; riding in a hot air balloon; white water rafting…check, check and check. I’ve accomplished all these and so much… but sometimes there is still something missing.
There remains a heap’n pile of hurt inside me. Some days, in the still of the silence, I still get down. Thinking about what was… the immense love I had for my W, the dreams we shared, the great times we had as a couple and as a family. I have spoken to many who tell me that the hurt never fully goes away. It may lessen in time but will always be there. But, I refuse to allow it to consume me. I’m still a work in progress but I strive to be the best person I can be. My goal is to live a charged life; one that allows me to let my heart sing and my soul soar. Maybe someday, I will get there.
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Wow Thirsty Duck! That was beautiful, I too have been working on a mission statement (actually part of a course that I am taking in college) I see that we have similarities in them. I really like your analogy of the Japaneses Art of Kintsugi, it highlights the the strengths in the brokenness of the LBSers. Truly an inspiring post.
Monday will be the first divorce hearing, not looking forward to it, but I will get through it and soldier on. During my LBS journey I have enrolled into college (starting fall of 2012) and so far I am still holding a 4.0 g.p.a. the end of this fall semester I will have my Accounting Certificate and next semester (spring 2015) I will graduate with a A.S. Degree in Business/Concentration in Accounting. I would love to go on to get my Bachelors Degree in Business but methinks I need to get a job, maybe I can get continued education in the divorce settlement :o my H would $hit bricks ;D.
Well that is what I have been up to during my journey.....Don't get me wrong, I probably would have never gone back to school if it wasn't for friggen MLC, I would not wish this on anyone, but I am getting a life (my life) and finding the joys along the with the pain...This is one B!TCH of a journey, so pack a lunch!
(((hugs)))
Truly :)
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Despite the immense pain that our spouses cause us, as we move forward, we begin to see how really messed up our MLCers are as we refocus and begin to rebuild our lives. Attached is a link to a "tongue & cheek" song that a local artist wrote & performed several years ago about someone struggling with aging & mortality. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeWRganyvNkv
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This is an excellent thread Song&Dance... well done!
Just like the rest of you, unable to eat. Felt like a wad of straw in my mouth, no matter how small a bite a took, or what it was, yogurt, oatmeal, toast, I simply could not swallow it. Made me choke and gag the whole way down and would throw it back up. SLEEP... oh goodness, what was that? I would eventually sort of pass out Chain smoked and drank black tea. I was freezing cold, all the time, the hot black tea, warmed me up, sort of.
I was incapable of reading or drawing or sewing all of my favourite activities. TV didn't interest me, other then as a back ground noise. Sort of kept my mind occupied as you know, it's not polite to not LISTEN when the TV is talking. No movies or real programs, boring stuff like politics etc. hehehe.
I would say the numbness wore off very gradually... still couldn't believe this was happening to me, heck right up to when he came back, I was still shaking my head in disbelief! Without a doubt, probably one of the most horrific experiences of my life. I know most people say, "Death Is Final"... therefore it is worse, but I tend to believe that at least with death, they DID NOT CHOOSE to leave you. They left because they had no choice. MLC, they choose to leave you, abuse you and betray you!
That is hard to stomach.
Hugs Stayed
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Exact same feelings, Stayed. Still keep smoking occasionally when work or something gets me stressed.
I know a couple of women whose husbands died youngish. I thought that was much worse but they tell me they are at peace with it and are moving on. They felt loved, not abandoned. It seems that the reason some of us struggle is that we get mixed messages and touch and goes.
I was awake last night blaming myself for tiny things like not appreciating every gift he bought me (2 x 4) to myself! One step forward, two steps back at the mo
X
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Ahhhhhhhhhh yes, blaming myself for not being appreciative enough, sexy enough/sexual enough, considerate enough, respectful enough, on and on the list goes. I spent hours ripping myself a new ahhh you know what. I convinced myself I was the cause of everything nasty on the planet. Global warming, famine, world peace, name it, I was personally responsible for it! If I had been a better person, more responsible, more caring, more loving, this would not have happened. UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG... screech!
That's another stage of this. Remorse, regret... oh the regret! Should have, could have, would have, why didn't I! Back to pleading, please give me another chance... I will do it right this time!
Stages. I think we need to go through them. I think they help us become better people. I believe part of the reason our MLCer's are so long coming out of this, is they refuse to go inward. They instead choose to believe all their misery/unhappiness is caused by others. By going INWARD, I think we save ourselves from their fate, their agony, their misery.
Hugs Stayed
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That's another stage of this. Remorse, regret... oh the regret! Should have, could have, would have, why didn't I! Back to pleading, please give me another chance... I will do it right this time!
Stages. I think we need to go through them.
YES - there is no avoiding stages, if you skip one then you will circle back and repeat a stage until you have dealt with it and completed it.
Penalty for avoidance of a STAGE is more time circling back to recomplete it anyway,
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Penalty for avoidance of a STAGE is more time circling back to recomplete it anyway,
Uggg... sadly I must give this statement a "true 'dat"!!! :-\ I was such a SLOW learner! :(
Hugs Stayed
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That's another stage of this. Remorse, regret... oh the regret! Should have, could have, would have, why didn't I! Back to pleading, please give me another chance... I will do it right this time!
I was very lucky to immediately find a counselor who understood what was going on. He used a framework of addiction rather than MLC, but it melds perfectly with MLC. During my first IC session, he pointed a finger at my face & said "Don't go to 'I should have...I could have...' This is on him, this isn't on you". So I didn't really do the self-blame thing.
I did in an e-mail to my H early on (when I was still jumping out of bed at 2 am full of things I wanted to say to him) say something along the lines of "I wish I had said 'thank you' more often, I wish I had said 'I'm sorry' more often, I wish I had said 'I love you' more often". That was a fair appraisal of my weakness in communication. I thought I communicated my love & commitment to my H through what I DID every single day. I now know that that wasn't enough; my H needed more verbal confirmation in our R. Would that have prevented MLC? No, a lot more would have needed to be fixed in our R much earlier on for any possibility of that. And I was not responsible for most of that. And, still? Who knows? If we know very little about the actual process of MLC, we know ZERO about how it might be prevented.
Because of support from others, because of our level of self-understanding & our willingness to be open to self-understanding, some stages can be gotten through faster than others & more quickly for one person than for another. Because of what I described, my stage of self-blame, self-evaluation of faults, & coming to terms with my responsibility was short. Other stages for me have been much longer & as OP pointed out, we can't skip doing the work of any stage; we must walk through the fire of each one.
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I guess that is the other thing we should really stress to newbies... along with protect yourself financially, and that is... find a good counselor... a really good counselor. A pro marriage counselor that will look after you with an eye to eventually having a marriage again, if possible.
I did not have a good counselor, so I kept revisiting the I should/could/would have/ wish I could/would/had etc. over and over again until I realized I couldn't have prevented this if I had been standing right beside him when he decided to hook up with this broad! He would have driven me home and found a way to get back to her and get on with whatever it is CHEATERS do.
Uggh... so seedy! No wonder I felt the need to shower so much.
Hugs Stayed
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That's another stage of this. Remorse, regret... oh the regret! Should have, could have, would have, why didn't I! Back to pleading, please give me another chance... I will do it right this time!
Stages. I think we need to go through them. I think they help us become better people. I believe part of the reason our MLCer's are so long coming out of this, is they refuse to go inward. They instead choose to believe all their misery/unhappiness is caused by others. By going INWARD, I think we save ourselves from their fate, their agony, their misery.
Yep!
Even though I barely remember the first few months post BD, I still recall with stunning clarity sitting in my ICs office talking about all the things I regretted, specifically working on my doctorate. If only I had done this, that, or the other thing. And then I looked at her and said, "it wouldn't have made an iota of difference: I would still be sitting here talking to you". A few days later I had enough of his BS and left for 3 weeks. It was the first tie he realized he was at real risk of losing me, but because I was still going through the stage, even though the music changed, the dance remained the same.
Uggh... so seedy! No wonder I felt the need to shower so much.
I used hot water and smoke to try to purify myself early on. I could sit next to my fire pit for 8-10 hours just staring at the flames. I thought I was losing my mind (well, okay I was) until a couple of friends pointed out how many cultures use flame and smoke as a form of purification. Just as many use water (e.g. Baptism).
I think that when we are so devastated, some primeval instinct takes over and starts us on a path to recovery.
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a couple of friends pointed out how many cultures use flame and smoke as a form of purification. Just as many use water (e.g. Baptism).
I think that when we are so devastated, some primeval instinct takes over and starts us on a path to recovery.
Interesting! Very interesting! I wish I had had a "fire pit" :) I wish I had had a good counselor! Still I had enough common sense to get away from him. I fled to New Zealand. Some would call it "running away" but I honestly considered it as finding safe turf to think. I couldn't think with him calling all the time. Talking in circles, over and over again!
hugs Stayed
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a couple of friends pointed out how many cultures use flame and smoke as a form of purification. Just as many use water (e.g. Baptism).
I think that when we are so devastated, some primeval instinct takes over and starts us on a path to recovery.
Interesting! Very interesting! I wish I had had a "fire pit" :) I wish I had had a good counselor! Still I had enough common sense to get away from him. I fled to New Zealand. Some would call it "running away" but I honestly considered it as finding safe turf to think. I couldn't think with him calling all the time. Talking in circles, over and over again!
hugs Stayed
Dang...I wish I could have gone to New Zealand! ;)
It's not running, its self-preservation. We have to remove ourselves from their drama at some point.
We talked in circles, too. The same thing over and over. I guess in those early days its part of them struggling with their fantastic decisions. At least, that's what it seemed to be with mine. He told me once that all the R talks we had we're helpful. Not sure how...maybe they just confirmed that I was a crazy b!tch. :o
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Dang...I wish I could have gone to New Zealand! ;)
It's not running, its self-preservation. We have to remove ourselves from their drama at some point.
I was working 3 jobs when I met my h. AS I had heard in 1976 that if you went to New Zealand with a bucket full of money, you could live like a queen for months and months. That's where I was heading, as soon as I had enough money.
New Zealand had always been my "dream" location. I had a pen pal when I was 9 or 10 years old, until I started high school. She used to send me pictures and write me letters about the Fiords, the Geyser's, I used to marvel at such beauty. Then she stopped writing me. Quite suddenly actually.
When this happened and after we buried mom, all I could think about was completing the journey I had planned and aborted because I met and married my h. It was definitely a desperate act of self preservation! My h was a terrible clinger. A master at giving me JUST ENOUGH hope that I would eagerly grasp and clutch onto for dear life. He could and I let him, gaslight me, twist me around, distort our history. I was going from one antibiotic to another, trying to clear up a persistent kidney infection. I was thin as a reed. Exhausted but unable to sleep. I truly felt if I didn't get away from him, from this whole farce, I would lose my mind. Really, truly, lose my mind, or die! I felt very vulnerable, fragile, weak in every way.
Is lost and desperate a stage, S&D?
Hugs Stayed
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Is lost and desperate a stage, S&D?
I think "Lost & Desperate" could describe a very long stage beginning at BD, maybe with a stage called Shock right before it. I have said, even as a nurse with a masters in mental health nursing, that I really wasn't sure what a "nervous breakdown" was, but that I was pretty sure I had had one after BD.
I spent about four months desperately e-mailing H, not so much begging, but hoping I could pierce his nonsensical explanations of what was going on, with logic & truth & the framework my IC was giving me (& had begun with H along for a few MC sessions). It was when he started responding back to me more often that I realized, HE was lost--everything he continued to say still made no sense. I initiated pretty complete NC then (even though I still hadn't found THS) only e-mailing about household logistics & asking him to only e-mail on Mondays when he had something to say, so that I could get e-mail at other times without the anxiety of seeing his name pop up.
BD was in January & I spent lots of time standing in front of our pellet stove, soaking in the heat. Losing so much weight so quickly, I always felt chilled to the bone. I paced in the room around the stove & nested there reading whatever I could find that might explain to me what was going on. When signs of Spring appeared, I didn't want to see it. It was still Winter in my soul & I thought I couldn't bear to see the green & colors & feel the soft warmth. Of course, it really was an antidote & the three months I did not see H at all & stopped virtually all e-mail communication, was a time of great healing.
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You are right, HT. I think the first stage is SHOCK and HORROR. I too feared for my sanity. Due to extreme loss of weight, was freezing all the time. No fireplace to huddle up to though. Plus, it hurt to sit, there was very little flesh on my bottom. I remember almost enjoying the discomfort. I even remember thinking... "look what you did to me, you fool, are you happy now"? You know when he finally saw me, he thought I looked wonderful. Not gaunt, but slim and trim. :o
Are we all agreed the first stage is SHOCK? The lost and desperate seemed recurring to me. I had several stages that I kept repeating like ground hog day. I think it must have been as OP said, my brain, my psychic striving to get it right. Anger was one of the last ones, other then being angry at myself for not having REALIZED what was going on. That really bothered me, that I hadn't detected there was a serious problem before there was one.
Any of you newbies, you probably have a better, clearer recall about this. What's your opinion? What's your thoughts on this... which stage was first?
hugs Stayed
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You are right, HT. I think the first stage is SHOCK and HORROR. I too feared for my sanity. Due to extreme loss of weight, was freezing all the time. No fireplace to huddle up to though. Plus, it hurt to sit, there was very little flesh on my bottom. I remember almost enjoying the discomfort. I even remember thinking... "look what you did to me, you fool, are you happy now"? You know when he finally saw me, he thought I looked wonderful. Not gaunt, but slim and trim. :o
Are we all agreed the first stage is SHOCK? The lost and desperate seemed recurring to me. I had several stages that I kept repeating like ground hog day. I think it must have been as OP said, my brain, my psychic striving to get it right. Anger was one of the last ones, other then being angry at myself for not having REALIZED what was going on. That really bothered me, that I hadn't detected there was a serious problem before there was one.
Any of you newbies, you probably have a better, clearer recall about this. What's your opinion? What's your thoughts on this... which stage was first?
hugs Stayed
Is this not just DENIAL?
The rest of the stages listed in the attached thread were
Bargaining
Anger
Depression
Resentment
Acceptance
Self Growth
Foregiveness
Renewal
Living Again
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1965396#Post1965396
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when i first got bombed i fell to pieces. i cried, i pleaded with him to talk to me, i was angry. then after a month or so of that i stopped bugging him, i started writing things out instead of talking to him. i became pleasant and light and worked on me getting stronger. about 5 months in i decided i didn't care what happened anymore and started detaching. two months later he moved out. now here i am living and knowing i will be just fine.
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Shock/Denial both go hand in hand. Then came desperation. When she left, lost. I remember it as a tangible thing, permeating my whole being and following me around wherever I went.
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OPs reply was a bit scarey to me. Granted I'm only four months in, but I just bounce all over the place. At least I am not a puddle on the floor like I was at first, but I seem to keep revisiting disbelief (denial) over and over again. I seem to cycle between disbelief, anger, depression, and acceptance over and over again. Hell I just txted to sis-in-law today "Does a broken heart ever FULLY heal?"...
The thing that is so confusing me to me is all the damn breadcrumbs she left before she physically left. Why give me hope if there is none, because she seems SO certain of her decision now. Its almost like she was afraid to make that leap, and wanted to make sure I would remain an option, but once she leaped, there was no going back. Just confusing.
-Terrified
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Normal TN. You're 4 months in. You're doing great.
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Without a doubt, there is some "denial" in there, but I really think it is far more then that. I was actually in a very scary state. I felt physically unwell! Spacey. Disoriented. Paranoid. Feverish. Terrified. Lost. Feint. I couldn't remember who my doctor was, or who I should contact if I needed assistance. I remained in that state for the entire 2 weeks that I remained in Luxembourg, until I could get a flight back to my kids and family.
I can't even remember buying my return flight because I had used my return ticket, as my flights were going from Lux to Canada. Not the Canada to Luxembourg. I have no recollection of the date I got BD. I know I could figure it out, because it was the night I returned that he told me. That being said, I cannot for the love of me remember what day that was. I have never even tried to figure it out either. Quite honestly, I just do not want that Anniversary Date in my life. Never have, still don't.
Once I got home and felt safe again, that spacey sensation slowly faded. It definitely was not DENIAL. It was something physical, mental and emotional. I felt sick, to be honest, really, truly sick. Just saw the new responses, I can't say that I put Denial and Shock into the same category. I agree with terrified I did flip all over the place, once I got out of the SHOCK. The shock was first for me and it lasted at least 2 perhaps 3 weeks. I could BARELY function.
Hugs Stayed
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I think shock is the first stage & separate unto itself. I guess some of these stages play out differently depending on how BD goes down. Some have a more protracted BD/spouse leaving experience. BD for me was H telling me of his "unhappiness", his infidelity, & that he was moving in with the until-then unknown-about OW, & 10 minutes later he drove away, his car packed while I was sleeping. That stage was physical, mental, & emotional shock.
Denial came a bit later. I was shut down in shock, in intense physical & emotional pain. My mind was in overload.
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WOW Stayed, so many things just resonates with me. I too could barely function. I was afraid I was going to lose my JOB! I also remember D16 trying to take care of me (that is NOT how it is supposed to be). She saw me break down many times, and now I regret that because I don't want her to have any resentment towards her mom because of what happened to me. But maybe D16 is angry at her mom because she feels abandoned herself...
Anyway, I don't know if its because I am getting older or because of the situation, but I find myself repeating things to people over and over and over again. I just don't remember what I've said to whom anymore.
Also at our temp custody hearing (which I lost-I blame my lawyer) I was in such utter shock, I don't remember ANYTHING that was discussed when the lawyers were panning out visitation afterward.
Just this past weekend, me and D16 were at Walmart grocery shopping; we ran into some mutual acquaintances of me and my w. I don't know if that was a trigger or what, but all of a sudden I had a HUGE panic attack. I felt like I was going to faint. D16 looked at me and said "are you doing okay?". I tried to play it off and said "I just need some food in my stomach", to which she replied "you need food in my stomach my butt". She KNEW I was not doing well.
I also vividly remember early on the feeling of wanting to vomit all the time. The constant tightness in my chest. I don't know if I had an appetite or not-but I know I dropped from 175 down to 140 lbs in a month! I had not been that thin since my early military days some 25 years ago. Oh yes, it was more than emotional, it was VERY physical as well.
-Terrified
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TNT, you are going to be fine. I think sometimes we have flashes of the various stages. I woke up this morning and thought, this crap isn't really happening, right? I've been having an extended bad dream (for 18 months). That's going to happen, I suspect, when we have interactions with them and/or learn more about how reprehensible they can be, we do revisit some or all of the stages. I went through quite of few of them last night and this morning. The good thing is that I've gone through them this time at lightening speed.
Stayed,I think you're right about shock being a stage. For some it may not be as dramatic, but I was similar to you in the beginning. I do not have any idea how it survived those few months. I was taking doctorate courses and have no memory of them (guess I did okay since I earned A's!). Physically I had many manifestations, too. For some of us it may last longer than others--but for me it was about 3 weeks.
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I meant to add that the other thing is, this is ALL I THINK ABOUT from the moment I wake up, until the moment I fall asleep. Now lately I have been able to refocus on specific tasks such as work related, or home repairs, but the second I become "idle" I go right back to thinking about my situation again. I wonder if that is why my sleep is STILL screwed up-mental exhaustion?
-Terrifed
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i think about it a lot too but it's not as obsessive. i used to obsess about it. now i just come here and read and see i am not alone and it helps me push through those times when i am in a bad spot. i am getting back into what i used to do before my life fell apart.
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I think that when we are so devastated, some primeval instinct takes over and starts us on a path to recovery.
This is known as the fight or flight syndrome. When predators are around we revert to our limbic primal state and either freeze staying motionless (rabbit in headlights) or we run and run as fast as we can - startled deer or sheep.
The primeval instinct is essential for survival if you are a creature that doesn't possess the power of thought. That is what really shocks us.
Our emotional instinct freezes and we take on board what we hear (note I said Hear) and we feel shock. My T (who I adore because in 8 sessions, she got me back on track and helped me make me whole) said that, whilst her jury was out on the concept of MLC, she felt that all the symptoms I expressed to her were part of PTSD.
PTSD is not just applicable to the military - PTSD happens if you witness or are part of an event for which you had no warning or awareness. aka Twin towers/ 7/11 bombings in UK /multiple car crash on motorways or simply the sudden loss of a loved one.
PTSD is the umbrella condition for shock, denial, anger, grief, physical pain brought on by emotional distress and many others.
The seven or five stages of grief also apply here but the difference is that there are three types of grief. The expected /resolved grief in which we are prepared for loss, the social grief in which we share with others a community grief and the unexpected/unresolved grief.
The five stages of Grief as per Kubler Ross are totally applicable to us but there is this expectation that it is a smooth progression from one to the other. It is not always the case and I am convinced that it most definitely is not the case in BD grief and post stages.
Denial is actually quite short lived unless you choose to ignore everything that has happened by pretending it hasn't or that it will all be ok in the end -" it's just a glitch" ostrich mentality.
For LBSers - denial is almost taken away from us as we are forced to deal with the reality of abandonment and or monster very very quickly.
We are ripped out of our comfort zone and ironically like the MLCer in liminality where " his body loses his skin" as he begins to be reborn, our skins are ripped off us and we are left metaphorically naked and alone.
It is this stage that causes the most damage in the first few days/weeks/months and in our natural desperation we cling onto what could and should be, the pleading and begging, the crying, the angst and pain, the "I'll do anything to get you back syndrome". It is something that I think we have to go through - the challenge is knowing that we have to go through it and letting go.
Then comes the next stage - which is not bargaining or even anger. It's rejection and all sentient feelings that accompany it - it's the journey to anger and victimhood.
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Rejection and sentient feelings! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm... I hadn't realized the rejection had come along so quickly... is there a time frame for these things S&D?
Wow, this is really good stuff! I can't wait to learn more... come on Song&Dance, give us an example, then we will recognize it and document our own personal rejection and sentient feelings. :)
Hugs Stayed
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Ah well if I don't answer this one then you will feel rejected!!! Foisted by my own petard!!
Ok howsabout this and this is my experience of rejection.
The first time was at BD when having read the letter H had written I moved towards him and he screamed with a horrified look on his face almost as if I had a machete in my hand " Don't touch me!"
The second was about 3 weeks later when I discovered who OW was and that hurt. She was this obsequious, smarmy, slimy woman who had partnered H in the show we had been working on earlier before BD. She was the woman who(having just adopted a 12 yr old girl 6 months earlier) asked me in the pub how did I handle girls? I asked why (this was all before BD btw). She said and this is the truth " I wish we'd never adopted her"
This was the woman H had chosen over me
My third feeling of rejection was when I said to H that I was clearly second best. Interestingly (but I was unaware of MLC at that time) his reply was "no - you're both different and I can see now how alternative faiths promote polygamy!!!"
The fourth time was my desperation to show how much I loved him and we became intimate (yet again before I knew about MLC). He stopped, pushed me away and said " No I can't do this with someone I don't love"
Rejection then builds - he wants no physical contact, he has chosen a freak over me and he treats me the same as her.
This leads to the "I don't deserve this" syndrome and no - none of us do but we go through it.
Rejection then becomes an automatic feeling every time we try to communicate with H and he either monsters/ignores or laughs at you.
We enter into conversations about the R thinking that we might try to "solve the problem" but we always end up rejected.
I remember H saying with tears in his eyes that OW had had such a difficult life and he wanted to help her. He was the one to help her and he and she were soulmates. That was the hardest rejection of all and this is where the LBS starts to plummet into their own pit and begin to reject the self.
If only I were more... If only I had done...... If only ....
The most obvious rejection is the abandonment by H.
Rejection can also be shortlived - depending I guess on how quickly the anger and victim mentality emerges.
Some LBSers on here are still feeling rejected several months later and a few even after years - some would argue it's resignation and part of acceptance. If there are feelings of rejection still in the LBSers mind, I would argue that acceptance has not yet been reached.
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Fascinating stuff, S&D.
My first rejection was BD. No surprise. A few days later I tried to hug him and I winced. Ouch. My personal favorite of all the rejections was when I had the bad reaction to antidepressants a few weeks post BD Amd while he came and nominally took care of me, the next day when we decided I wasn't going to kill myself, he hid the ammunition for our weapons and then took OW camping...but first lined up all the camping gear in the garage where I couldn't not see it. BUT, he was "sweet" enough to hug me before he left and say he didn't want anything to happen to me. :o
He rejected me when he whined that "no one" would go camping with him, anymore and I said I would love to go. He rejected me when I said I wanted to go flying with him. He constantly rejected every attempt I made to spend time with him as a couple..ultimately saying the day I asked him to leave that he couldn't picture us doing anything together (apart from having sex, I guess).
The night before I asked him to go, we had sex and he got up from the bed when he thought I was asleep
And went into the basement. That was a really tough one, too.
And of course I must mention what I still consider to be his most hilarious statement but what is rejection: telling me to sleep with other men as long as their Pen!$ is smaller than his. That really is the ultimate rejection of a spouse.
I agree, S&D that the rejection leads to "I don't deserve this", but that's a good thing. His complete disrespect of me as a human being built until I wasn't willing to tolerate being in the same house with him, anymore. It was the culmination of a few months of "I don't deserve this". But I don't necessarily agree its about rejecting the self unless you mean rejecting the current self. I believe, for me, I had to go through what I did in order to find the strength to make him go. I believe, too, that he had to keep upping the rejection ante because he is a coward and wouldn't leave on his own.
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Ok, can see that. Everybody has lot's of examples of rejection. :-\
hugs Stayed
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I agree, S&D that the rejection leads to "I don't deserve this", but that's a good thing.
It is a good thing for those of us who can see that there is more to life than rejection as it motivates us to look for the good in us without the arrogance. However there are many LBsers on here who berate themselves for not doing this or that. They reject their own feelings and rights in favour of what the MLCer wants.
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Yes, I have seen the same thing S&G. Funny, all the ones that are following this thread are not one of those. Interesting eh? I wonder if some of the ones that can't let themselves see it as good thing, will check out this thread?
Hugs Stayed
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It is a good thing for those of us who can see that there is more to life than rejection as it motivates us to look for the good in us without the arrogance. However there are many LBsers on here who berate themselves for not doing this or that. They reject their own feelings and rights in favour of what the MLCer wants.
I would say it is very rare for an lbs to 'look for the good' without doing some difficult work to get there.
Susan Anderson:
...abandonment is a profound enough trauma to implant an invisible drain deep within the self that works insidiously to drain off self-esteem from within. The paradox for abandonment survivors is that no matter what they do to build their self-esteem, the invisible wound of abandonment is always working to drain it away.
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I would say it is very rare for an lbs to 'look for the good' without doing some difficult work to get there.
Agree. The LBS suffered a great shock. It will require time (often a lot of it) and difficult work to get there. And the LBS will cycle, will also have phases when it is possible to go forward and others when things seem to stagnate or to go back. It is normal. It is we processing, going back to those things we could not deal with before. All will happen in our own time. Rushing anything will not be of help.
Songanddance asked me how do I feel now that I have reached a new stage (no idea what is the name of the stage). I feel like before (before being maybe the last 18-24 months), this is all in the past, but sadly I still need to deal with legal issues. The difference is that I'm trying to backtrack a little on the detachment front since it had went to far and had become detrimental to me.
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The stages of abandonment according to Anderson [from the Journey from abandonment to healing, Chapter one]. Note that the first letters spell 'swirl' in keeping with the cyclic nature of the healing. ::)
The 5 stages of abandonment
- Shattering
- Withdrawal
- Internalizing
- Rage
- Lifting
I think even Kubler-Ross said that the stages of grief were not followed as a linear process. We revisit until we are finished. I am presently rereading the abandonment book because I am coming to terms with the idea that being alone might be permanent. I could accept as if.
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From HeartTattoo on grief http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4985.0
(From Varney’s Midwifery, H. Varney, J.M. Kriebs, C.L. Gegor)
The first stage of grief is shock, which is the individual’s initial response to the loss.
The second stage of grief is suffering, the phase of reality.
The third stage of grief is resolution, the phase of establishing new significant relationships.
Shaterring and Shock are pretty much the same thing. So, stage 1?
Withdrawal... I'm with RCR on that one, withdrawal is always present. I know RCR was referring to the MLCer but I think it is also valid for the LBS until our journey is over. So, not so much a stage but something that permeates all, maybe minus the final stage, stages.
Rage/anger, is it a stage? Or does it cross several stages?
I like the 3 stages, being it shock/suffering/resolution or shattering/internalizing/lifting. 3 is simple and they pretty much say it all.
Or maybe 4 shock/internalizing/lifting and resolution? Lifting and resolution being more or less the equivalent of Rebirth and Reintegration. First something lifts, then we resolve?
Withdrawal, rage/anger and depression I think are not stages but can happen within several of the stages.
Don't remember if Kübler-Ross said it but it makes sense and it matches our experiences. The stages/what we feel/go through is not a linear process. We revisit, we jump until one stage is completely over.
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I think you are 'lifted' Anjae! Except for the legal tie-down.
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Yes, think so. :) And even the legal tie-down sounds weirdly lifted. Totally different from when I received that first divorce court case documents.
By then I would keep checking the document, was in distress. Now I send whatever is needed then keep everything, physical or digital out of my sight and do not look at again. Unless I have to for court reasons. It is just like it does not exist.
So, one more stage for me to go, resolution, or am I on the final one?
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Perhaps you are waiting for your divorce to CONFIRM resolution? You are a very pragmatic thinker, this would make sense to me, that once the divorce is complete, you will have your resolution and be able to move on with your life. Hopefully, starting new relationship and life.
I could see being "alone" as a resolution. As long as I was content being "alone", enjoying my peace, then that would be a fine resolution to this! If that were me though, I am sure, I would remain open to the possibility of a new relationship.
Nobody can rush anybody into anything, goodness, nobody can make anybody do anything actually. What I found was finding other people that were going through the same feelings, pain, emotions as myself, seemed to help me shift along a bit quicker. Knowing I wasn't crazy was HUGE... that alone helped me to let go and get on with GAL. After that, each new thing I learned about whatever STAGE I was in, I found it helped me to move along and out of it and onto the next STAGE. It was like having a mental Check List for me.
1.Shattering
2.Withdrawal
3.Internalizing
4.Rage
5.Lifting
Check, check... ooops... back to shattered, wth? Over it, after a good nights sleep... getting quicker at getting out of that stage... thank goodness... Withdrawing/internalizing, I found I internalized while I was withdrawn, obviously my "thinking time"... would come out of withdrawal/ internalizing, feeling one of either ways... enraged/angry or uplifted/accepting... didn't seem to be much of a happy medium for me, but then again, maybe I did that while I was withdrawing and internalizing. Shattered, definitely became fewer and farther between the longer I was dealing with this crap. 2 - 5 I confess, I revisited often. I still do, but I seldom have #4 RAGE anymore. Thank goodness. Rage makes me weak, in every way, physically, emotionally, mentally. Makes my head ache.
Just my opinion... not suggesting that everybody should deal with it like that! I repeat though, I felt reassured when I knew that others were feeling/behaving/reacting, the same way as I. Being able to identify the STAGE I was in seemed to narrow my thinking down and better able to move along to the next great obstacle/revelation (lol). Knowing I was not "out of my mind" was very reassuring and helped me to move on in my recovery.
Perhaps I should define how I see the expression MOVING ON. To me, that expression simply means healing, recovering, able to have a life. Able to view life with enthusiasm and eagerness. It did not mean, able to find a new partner. The idea of a new partner terrified me, although I refused to take ANYTHING off the table. I felt those were decisions best made with a completely healed and recovered Stayed.
hugs Stayed
Hugs Stayed
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From HeartTattoo on grief http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4985.0
(From Varney’s Midwifery, H. Varney, J.M. Kriebs, C.L. Gegor)
The first stage of grief is shock, which is the individual’s initial response to the loss.
The second stage of grief is suffering, the phase of reality.
The third stage of grief is resolution, the phase of establishing new significant relationships.
The stages of abandonment according to Anderson [from the Journey from abandonment to healing, Chapter one]. Note that the first letters spell 'swirl' in keeping with the cyclic nature of the healing. ::)
The 5 stages of abandonment
- Shattering
- Withdrawal
- Internalizing
- Rage
- Lifting
The three stages--Shock, Suffering, Resolution--keep it simple, but there may be stages within those as well. I agree that withdrawal, anger, depression are threads throughout & may vary a great deal. Anger is huge for some, experienced very little by others; perhaps the same with depression.
I like Anderson's Shattering. Shock for the LBS is only a few days really, but Shattering describes what continues with endangered sleep, appetite derangement, etc. In shock, the body has shut down; Shattering describes the continued reaction, but the body can only live with shock for a short time.
Suffering can encompass not only the inner emotional torment, but is also a reaction to the outside forces--MLCer's continued damaging actions, divorce, financial ruin, suffering/acting out by children, etc, etc.
Resolution will have several levels. Never a straight line. Cal expresses this--far along in the journey, yet circling back, acknowledging triggers & the feelings they bring, yet continuing to move in a positive direction.
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I agree, S&D that the rejection leads to "I don't deserve this", but that's a good thing.
It is a good thing for those of us who can see that there is more to life than rejection as it motivates us to look for the good in us without the arrogance. However there are many LBsers on here who berate themselves for not doing this or that. They reject their own feelings and rights in favour of what the MLCer wants.
But doesn't that have to do with to the stage a person is in, S&D? I wasn't posting here during my darkest period, but I did reject myself in favor of whatever he wanted. For months. I honestly believed I had to accept his cruel treatment of me in order to save our marriage. I'm not ashamed of that because it was the path I needed to take to get to where I am now. I liken my experience to his in that I had to reach my own bottom before I was willing to say enough is enough. Not just willing but able.
Which brings me to
Perhaps I should define how I see the expression MOVING ON. To me, that expression simply means healing, recovering, able to have a life. Able to view life with enthusiasm and eagerness. It did not mean, able to find a new partner. The idea of a new partner terrified me, although I refused to take ANYTHING off the table. I felt those were decisions best made with a completely healed and recovered Stayed.
I agree with this definition. Moving on means living our lives for us. It means acceptance of the new reality and the ability to look deep within ourselves to fix those things that need fixing. And, of course, to begin the healing.
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Stayed...Without a doubt, there is some "denial" in there, but I really think it is far more then that. I was actually in a very scary state. I felt physically unwell! Spacey. Disoriented. Paranoid. Feverish. Terrified. Lost. Feint.
Reading this thread I have to agree with the first stage is not Denial, it's Shock. Pure and simple. The state of mind you are in, in my opinion, has nothing to do with Denial. I feel that comes afterwards.
Then you start thinking...this can't really be happening.
But first you're too stunned to think. Your body just reacts to the shock. You have no control.
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Reading this thread I have to agree with the first stage is not Denial, it's Shock. Pure and simple. The state of mind you are in, in my opinion, has nothing to do with Denial. I feel that comes afterwards.
Denial is the first step in normal divorce/separation. This was a Bomb Drop in every sense of the word.
After the BD (in my parked car in our driveway) he left and I just sat there with my mouth open for hours.
Then I drove to find him (around midnight, he was at a club singing on stage in his band), he told me "we need space", my car was beat up from that drive home, not sure how I made it home alive.
The next 2-3 weeks are hazy...
I heard voices...
Rarely slept, to this day I'm not sure what was dreams and what was reality.
Some were so scary...I became afraid to fall asleep.
I would scream his name thinking he was there,... my poor kids.
On the 5-6 day I ate a spoonful of yogurt and threw up...I became afraid to eat.
I had a panic attack, I seriously thought I was going to die.... I became afraid to be afraid.
I remember going to work at 2-3 in the morning and not understanding why nobody was there, I just stared out the window. The security guard must have thought I was nuts... Well, I was.
Denial came later.
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I found this song right after BD and it fit exactly how I was feeling.
By The Script
"Exit Wounds"
My hands are cold, my body's numb
I'm still in shock, what have you done?
My head is pounding, my vision's blurred
Your mouth is moving, I don't hear a word
And I hurt so bad, that I search my skin
For the entry point, where love went in
And ricocheted and bounced around
And left a hole when you walked out, yeah
I'm falling through the doors of the emergency room
Can anybody help me with these exit wounds?
I don't know how much more love this heart can lose
And I'm dying, dying from these exit wounds
Wounds!
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
Exit wounds
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
Marks of battle, they still feel raw
A million pieces of me, on the floor
I'm damaged goods, for all to see
Now who would ever wanna be with me?
I've got all the baggage, drink the pills
Yeah, this is living but without the will
I'm backing out, I'm shutting down
You left a hole when you walked out, yeah
I'm falling through the doors of the emergency room
Can anybody help me with these exit wounds?
I don't know how much more love this heart can lose
And I'm dying, dying from these exit wounds
Wounds!
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
Exit wounds
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
[x4]
Lose your clothes and show your scars that's who you are
Marks of battle, they still feel raw
A million pieces of me, on the floor
I'm falling through the doors of the emergency room
Can anybody help me with these exit wounds?
I don't know how much more love this heart can lose
And I'm dying, dying from these exit wounds
Wounds!
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
Exit wounds
Where they're leaving, the scars you're keeping
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New thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5734.0