Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: superdog on July 02, 2012, 12:02:31 PM
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Unfortunately most of this site consists of physical affairs, but just wanted to ask opinions on EA's. My h definitely is involved in one of those, don't know whether it has gone PA.
His sttraction for me there has never wained and he's not highly charged in that way anyway.
Anyway- is the infatuation the same? Do they profess love to each other? Is this the ultimate fantasy affair because reality never sets in? Are more stay at homes involved in these?
I am just interested in the dynamic of this compared to a full blown sexual affair.
Just looking for thoughts or experiences of others.
Sd
X
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Superdog,
I really don't think I can answer this for you but I will share what my exH experienced. He had started a new job after retiring from a department head position (being pretty much his own boss). He took a lesser position job with less responsibility. I warned him about how hard it is to go from such a job to another. I myself had retired a few years before and went through a rough transition to my new job. I believe it was much harder for my exH. Anyway, his EA started with a female (single) co-worker in his new office. I guess she was all about trying to hook him........and she did. I don't know how long the EA was but he had only been working for 6 months at the new job when all of this came out. I discovered through cell phone records that they were texting each other a few times in August and September of 2009 but by October 2009 it was full blown! I'm talking 24/7 texting........thousands of them........and they worked in the same office! It didn't go PA until he left me which was in December. I believe he felt "relieved" of his duties as my husband at that point therefore he was free to entertain his new love. It only lasted a few months.........once the truth was exposed, she quit her job and he was under so much stress he ended their affair.......but picked up his second OW very fast.......it also fizzled out quick. Maybe 3 months each.......or 4 at the most. I know this doesn't help you much but I'd say part of the EA is the thrill/excitement of the secret. It boost their ego's and gives them a feeling of the "high" they are searching.......or what they think they are searching.
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I too would be interested in comments about this.............
FH
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My exH also had an EA with a man from the gym. I suppose it is described more as a school girl crush. Someone who paid attention and perhaps someone just to talk to who flirted. There were not much communication except perhaps while at the gym. there were phone calls over a period of 3 months, but they were sporadic. Calls usually immediately after I would leave for work.
She still contends she never cheated on me. When I call the OM, he said my ex told him we were separated... I did move out for a week immediately after BD.
EA is just as strong, if not stronger than a PA. Infatuation and the replaying of what can possibly happen is intoxicating. I believe more so for women.
I believe men can have a PA without emotional attachment, but women may find it more difficult,.... I know I am just generalizing.
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My H's PA was an EA for a very long time. They're still a long distance relationship, so really it's the obsessive texting and phoning that solidifies their bond far more than the physical stuff. It made her his "best friend" above me. I think they have professed "love" for each other (gag) and they have created a little make believe future world that I think constantly keeps the game going toward their proverbial "new life" - even though none of it makes sense. I think having her feeding that has spiraled him deeper into mental illness, because she validates things that someone like me or a family member may point out is unrealistic.
Exposure definitely throws water on the fire, and even my once stand-up H tried to downplay that since there wasn't "that much sex" by the time they were caught, it didn't really count as an affair. So EA's seem to live in the MLC'ers gray area.
The physical stuff is what we're prepared to deal with as spouses, I think. The EA stuff is so high school and weird...it's its own animal.
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I think about the whole EA thing as one massive fantasy land. You can say what you like about yourself to someone on txt or email or phone and there is no body language feedback. After all that is where the majority of our communication comes from.
My H said something along the way about how he was unable to have an emotional connection with anyone. During a self pity moment.I sometimes wonder if he got scared in this EA aswell when she got too close. She is relatively safe being married herself and could be kept at his famous "arms length" and taken out of his compartmentalized box whenever he felt like it. If he had gone full on PA he couldn't have done that.
My H is the full on classic low energy wallower, with major depressive periods, lots of withdrawal time. I fail to see what woman would want to listen constantly to the dull, depressive conversation of this man. 3 years later and he must have exhausted all about him.
I know that breaking up is hard to do and all that, but the EA must be a toughy as it becomes a huge habit aswell. Plus they end up with them as their only best friend once they withdraw from everyone else. My H only has about 3 numbers left on his phone ! Where would be the motivation to end an EA.
Just thinking out loud.
SD
x
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I can relate to this topic. My H had an EA with a former subordinate who worked for him who lived in a different state for 3 1/2 yrs and this was prior to BD. He didn't see it as an affair. He was in so much denial. They were "just friends" and he could not see how this impacted our marriage. Of course it was all hidden and I was devastated when I found out. Looking back this was the start of the MLC I believe with BD about 16 months after this was discovered. My H is notorious for phone/text relationships with the females who work for him. I believe since BD he has had at least 3. I don't know if they become PA or not. He just doesn't see these as harmful and I honestly think he is addicted to the affirmation and adoration of these women. They all work or worked for him so he was in a one up position always.
I think they are hurtful because for me I thought he was my best friend and vice versa. He gives emotional energy to these women while he withdrew further and further away. In his mind though this is not infidelity unless he sleeps with them. So frustrating, but part of the MLC I believe as they are great compartmentalizers, at least mine is.
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Hi,
My exh was having an EA with his coworker, who was married over twenty years with two kids, teenager and twenty something. They both fed eachother until it was revealed...not sure what happened after he left, other than she is still married.
Keepthefaith22, I can relate to what you wrote about your h. He needed the ego stroke by other women, but do not think it ever became PA...think as long as it was "just" emotional, in his mind did not "count" as an affair. Knew I was in trouble when we were at a work related function and the way he acted with her was "different"... more familiar, plus she had him whipped. Very upsetting to witness. It got to the point towards the end where I felt like if I wanted something done by him I should ask her to ask for me then he would have done it immediately with a smile on his face.
Funny part was I was his biggest fan and supporter. Thanked him for his hard work, told him he looked great, smelled great, how much I loved and appreciated him, but he still craved more...like a bottomless pit.
ODAAT
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My husbands’ PA with OW1 started with a EA that lasted for months. She lived many miles away from us. They would exchange correspondence, text, phone each other (all behind my back). It was all very lovely, very fantasy but the in-fatuation was sky high.
OW1 always remained living many miles away when it become physical. They would only saw each other on weekend (and sometimes not every weekend) and when on vacations.
My husband never lost sexual interest in me, not even after he had left and was involved in a PA with OW1. I was the one who put an end to sexual contact with him.
Would say if an affair never moves to PA it will always remain very rosy, very sweet, very school crush like Hobo said.
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My w has been in an ea for a long time. She is very attached to the om and declared him the "love of her life" and he could "read her mind." It was crazy. I think she is done with him, but only time will tell. It is a very powerful addiction and the long distance romance makes it only stronger. I think the ea is just as hard on the LBSer as the physical affair.
I know it broke my heart when she told me that "don't I deserve to die looking into the eyes I love." and she was not referring to me.
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My exH also had an EA with a man from the gym.
New information? Sorry, I know how painful it is and W still texts and calls lawyer boy but I actually go days without even thinking about him now. He's a non-issue regardless of what role he plays.
H tried to downplay that since there wasn't "that much sex" by the time they were caught, it didn't really count as an affair. So EA's seem to live in the MLC'ers gray area.
The physical stuff is what we're prepared to deal with as spouses, I think. The EA stuff is so high school and weird...it's its own animal.
Did you ask him what was the limit that would have to be crossed before it was an affair? Now, generalizing here, I think the PA may be what the female LBSers are prepared for but I don't think the male LBSers ever really get prepared for it. It is the perception of most male LBSers I know that if a woman gets physical with a man then it's more intimate and special for her. I know of several here and on LT that would or have tolerated an EA but draw the line with a PA.
Would say if an affair never moves to PA it will always remain very rosy, very sweet, very school crush like Hobo said.
I am interested to know whether you are thinking from the assumed perspective of a male or female MLCer or both. I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier. Is there a gender difference here? I've read accounts both ways. From my own perspective, I think we have all likely had EA's whether we realized it or not as we have probably connected with a member of the opposite sex to a degree that our spouses would not be okay with (in their right mind). It may be a co-worker, platonic friend or even a subordinate but we are all probably guilty and didn't even know it. I know from my own perspective that I would eventually tire of an EA with a woman but sleeping together would be a different story. Gender differences again?
I know it broke my heart when she told me that "don't I deserve to die looking into the eyes I love." and she was not referring to me.
This made me very sad to read. Although my W has never expressed to me that she loves someone else, she has been very clear that she doesn't love me anymore and maybe never did. She has done everything to prove that to me short of flaunting an affair, which she probably feels would turn me away permanently. Abandonment coupled with rejection must be the hardest emotions for us humans to process.
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Now, generalizing here, I think the PA may be what the female LBSers are prepared for but I don't think the male LBSers ever really get prepared for it.
I understand you are generalizing, but I don't know that I agree. After all, we are familiar with the saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"........I have never heard "Hell hath no fury like a man scorned".
It is the perception of most male LBSers I know that if a woman gets physical with a man then it's more intimate and special for her.
There is nothing intimate or special in MLC.
I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier.
I am not sure what you mean by "cementing" it, but if you mean it leads to a true relationship I would very much disagree.
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There's a big gender difference in how we connect and that is why I feel like the EA is much worse for women to handle. For men the sex is harder as that's how they connect most.
Its equally as bad and heartbreaking to know your h or w loves someone other than you.
Is it something we can truly get over if we are honest with ourselves even with forgiveness, I don't know how you would ever feel the same again.
Sd
X
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Superdog,
My H had an EA with a co-worker that lasted about six months. When I learned of it, I demanded it end and it did. He then replaced the ego boost from her with Facebook and the hundreds of women he friended. To this day he denies that he was physical with her, and denies it was even an emotional affair because there was no love talk and so forth. But an EA is defined as a relationship that is intentionally kept secret from the spouse and so forth. It might not have been love talk but it was heading in that direction, I am sure. The text I found from her referred to him as "Babe". It was the only text like that...but it was the last one she sent before I found it...so I knew where this was headed.
Now that he is nearing the end stages of MLC and we have reconnected, I can't say 100% but I'm pretty sure that no, I will never feel the same way about him as I did before this. And this was a mild case compared to many here. But the fact remains that no matter how much I can forgive and move on, he broke my trust, he was cruel, uncaring, harsh and selfish. Prior to this I did not know he could be those things. So while I still love him, and am allowing myself to feel romantically in love again, and while I know that he was a broken man and that is in part what caused all this, he nonetheless is not the person I thought he was, but instead a flawed person who like many, has the capability to hurt me. Stupidly and naively, I never thought he would do that.
I'm learning to forgive, I'm learning to move forward but I can't ever go back 100% to that person I was before, the one that viewed my marriage as perfect. Sad to say...but true.
Bon
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My h has acTually said to me that he is sad because he knows I will never feel the same way about him again.
That was months ago and now he's back to mr change the world, or as we sane people know it- denial.
Thanks bon bon. I love me h too, but am coming round to the idea that it will never be enough after all of this.
The txt I saw from her said " can't txt but wanted you to know I was thinking about you" that's a little more feeling than any friend.
He stopped it for a while then txt her again during a bout of serious depression telling her how miserable he was. From then on in I haven't snooped his phone. I know enough.
He denies physical too and hates it when I refer to her as his girlfriend. He gets mad at that. She taunted me at their work to one of my friends and he took her side in everything. I know where his heart lies and it aint with me.
He has said to me before I don't feel the same, neither do you so why bother. I tell him to leave then and he goes nowhere.
Someone else said this too- if I want to know something about my h I would be better off asking her.
Sd
X
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Sd,
I'm in blue...
My h has acTually said to me that he is sad because he knows I will never feel the same way about him again.
My H has said this many times...there were times he said it and it was heartfelt, sad. There were other times he said this to get out of accountability...keep that in mind.
That was months ago and now he's back to mr change the world, or as we sane people know it- denial.
Thanks bon bon. I love me h too, but am coming round to the idea that it will never be enough after all of this.
Well, maybe or maybe not. I can tell you though that as soon as I think I know something for sure, something within me, I change my mind. It aint over till its over...that is, if you have the will to hang around long enough.
The txt I saw from her said " can't txt but wanted you to know I was thinking about you" that's a little more feeling than any friend.
Yes, I might have missed some that said things like that too...I don't really know. I saw enough to know it was an inappropriate relationship they were having, he was lying and betraying me, and something was really wrong. Since I saw the word "Babe", I nearly vomit when I hear someone using that...lol...
He stopped it for a while then txt her again during a bout of serious depression telling her how miserable he was. From then on in I haven't snooped his phone. I know enough.
Well, they can cycle really heavily so its not surprising if it started up again in the thick of all this. Remember this is all depression, mostly turned outward. She is a fix...she is just a symptom of his running from himself. That's all she is.
He denies physical too and hates it when I refer to her as his girlfriend. He gets mad at that.
I used to do that too...its a bit of b*ll busting..lol. My H would get furious. But I stopped because it was making me look reactionary...better to act upright and above all this nonsense, know what I mean?
She taunted me at their work to one of my friends and he took her side in everything. I know where his heart lies and it aint with me.
It isn't his heart that is the problem...its his head. Don't forget that. But I don't blame you for being hurt and angry if he took her side. Try to keep out of the maelstrom...if she taunts you, ignore it. She is nothing...nothing. My H's EA/OW taunted me too and I told him about it...she did it on Facebook back when you could read anyone's threads...he didn't really believe it. So this is not unusual. He probably sees you as the strong one, erego, he defers to her in that way. Just ignore it. You deserve better than that crapola.
He has said to me before I don't feel the same, neither do you so why bother. I tell him to leave then and he goes nowhere.
Well, then he must not want to leave! Don't engage in this talk with him. Tell him in one sentence you hope things can work out between you or something like that...then walk away. He's looking for you to either make him feel better or make him feel justified in what he's doing...remember, no "R" talks, even if its at his baiting.
Someone else said this too- if I want to know something about my h I would be better off asking her.
Except that you are his wife...and he's in MLC...and again, she is just a symptom....so hang in there!
Bon
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Thanks bon bon. Its good to hear others perspectives.
I am interested in the whole mlc thing and also the differences etc.
I have to say that even from a womans point of view, if I discover for sure that its been PA then I will walk for sure. That is the only exclusive for me in a relationship between h + w and if he has also violated that then there is nothing left for me.
Sd
X
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OH MY GOODNESS,
My h called his "friend" Babe too, burns my chaps. Never, ever, ever, called me that.
FH
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Would say if an affair never moves to PA it will always remain very rosy, very sweet, very school crush like Hobo said.
I am interested to know whether you are thinking from the assumed perspective of a male or female MLCer or both. I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier. Is there a gender difference here? I've read accounts both ways. From my own perspective, I think we have all likely had EA's whether we realized it or not as we have probably connected with a member of the opposite sex to a degree that our spouses would not be okay with (in their right mind). It may be a co-worker, platonic friend or even a subordinate but we are all probably guilty and didn't even know it. I know from my own perspective that I would eventually tire of an EA with a woman but sleeping together would be a different story. Gender differences again?
Both. I don’t think men and women are that different and, if anything, my life experience has show me men are for more emotional than women. Also, biologically, if a man keeps sleeping with the same female he will be bound to her because of the release of oxytocin. In a way it is easer for a male to be trapped to a woman he keeps sleeping with than the other way round. That is why I think some guys just jump from female to female. If they don’t, they will start having feelings/be bond for/to her.
And here is where I think female LBS spouses who stop sleeping with their husband while he keeps sleeping with OW have it hard. The ocytacion bond is established with her, not the wife. No, I'm, not sugesting we, female LBS, carry on sleeping with our husband's while they have OW (I have not done it since a little after BD) just saying that is a biological reason why they become so connected to other woman.
I would not label a more friendly, more caring connection with a member of the opposite sex an EA. To me that requires some romantic fantasy some dream of “what if we get together…” But, overall, I would say, yes, most likely we’ve all already have an emotional affair that we were unaware of. Don't think that type of EA is a problem, just part of life. It has nothing to with with our MLCers EA.
Probably yes, gender differences because I would soon tire of sleeping with a man (meaning OM). Or maybe that is simply because the energy, the mess, the manipulation, the demands that come with it would soon put the off. I would soon tire of the EA as well. Things that tend to go nowhere, or lead to the road of disaster, I soon tire of. Don’t mind a think that is going nowhere if it does not demand much of me and is short lived, otherwise, I’ll pass.
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Now that he is nearing the end stages of MLC and we have reconnected, I can't say 100% but I'm pretty sure that no, I will never feel the same way about him as I did before this. And this was a mild case compared to many here. But the fact remains that no matter how much I can forgive and move on, he broke my trust, he was cruel, uncaring, harsh and selfish. Prior to this I did not know he could be those things. So while I still love him, and am allowing myself to feel romantically in love again, and while I know that he was a broken man and that is in part what caused all this, he nonetheless is not the person I thought he was, but instead a flawed person who like many, has the capability to hurt me. Stupidly and naively, I never thought he would do that.
I'm learning to forgive, I'm learning to move forward but I can't ever go back 100% to that person I was before, the one that viewed my marriage as perfect. Sad to say...but true.
Oh Bon, that is exactly how I feel too right now. I hope in time too that those feelings will change . . . wonder what Stayed has to say about that.
Hugs,
Sassy
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I wanted to add this as my H is home, rebuilding, and with (almost) no contact with OW.
I think H would still claim this was never an EA, and that I had got it wrong. The fact that (a) it never went physical and (b)the fact that there was never a mutual exchange of "I love you" justifies this in his mind.
I regard it as an EA because of H's obsession with her, constantly emailing and texting her, saying "I could fall in love with you/ you get my libido going"; suggesting holidays (which luckily they never went on); the idea that they had something special between them, a mutual empathy that surpassed love; lying to me to go out with her to the cinema, concerts, theatre, dinners, etc... (which he justified on the grounds that I was just too unreasonable...)
Everyone said it would probably go physical, but it didn't (I think she liked his attention, but never intended to have a fling with him). I'm glad that it didn't go physical, and that they didn't live together/ go on holiday together, etc, because it makes reconciliation easier (and it's hard enough). But on the other hand, I think he still considers her as a wonderful person, and seems unable to conciliate how he sees her with how she behaves (telling him she was afraid of me, telling her mum I'd threatened her, etc.) So he refuses to address the issue. As far as he is concerned, he did no wrong, she did no wrong and I am unreasonable for getting angry, which must be because of my own insecurities... (I mean normal women wouldn't mind this at all, would they?)
So... EAs are a fantasy, an escape; yes, physical attraction and infatuation are involved, which diminishes with time, but it's more than that. It's about escaping their lives, their routines and the inevitabilities of existence; of something new and exciting to escape the humdrum. H always acted like it was nothing to do with me, and in a way he's right. He didn't do it to punish me, I just didn't figure in the picture. I was part of the scenery, and just didn't count.
It's hard to forgive someone who doesn't admit that their actions were wrong.