Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: underpressure on August 14, 2012, 11:08:40 AM
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I'd like to start a discussion specifically about behaviors of the OW, what she did concerning your children.
Did she ever try to approach them even if you had told your husband there would be no contact between her and the kids while he was with them?
Did she try to turn your H against his child/children?
For instance: Did she try to keep him from making plans with his kids, or from enjoying family time (calling/texting specifically during family time).
DId she ever succeed?
Did she hurt your children directly?
Early in the affair or later?
Is there any way I can stop my children from being around OW, for instance, by proving she has BPD or a history of destroying marriages?
And what do you think drives her to do destructive things toward your children? Or does she feel motivated to take them over and turn them against their mother?
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My guess? She doesn't want anything to do with your kids.
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Thanks for your support, Doc.
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When my ex and I divorced, many years ago, my youngest child was 13, my other kids were in their late teens. In the beginning, my daughter was not around ex that much, but when she spent a day with him, he always included OW. He said it wasn't fair to leave her home alone while he spent time with his child!!
The OW never had children of her own, by choice, I've been told. During my daughter's high school years, if my ex gave her any spending money, he always told her not to mention it to the OW, as it would make her mad.
My oldest son was diagnosed with schizophrenia approx 5 yrs ago, but has always had problems. The OW does not like him, has no interest in learning about his illness. He comes to my house on Friday nights and goes back to his own place on Saturday morning. He has never in all these years been allowed to stay overnight at their house, but it is not a problem with the other kids if they are in town. He has never spent one holiday there, he is always with me. Ex lives within 3 miles of me.
OW seems to run the show, and he seems to like it that way. He is retired career military and has no trouble speaking his mind, except to her. In the beginning of this, I think he liked it that way because he could blame her and he wouldn't look like the bad one. He wanted his freedom from parental responsiblities as much as possible. The last couple of years there has been some movement into him trying to establish more of a relationship with all the kids.
For what it is worth, none of my kids particularly like this woman, but are respectful because of their dad.
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UnderPressure, as someone who lives in a no-fault state and in this country at least, there is very little you can do about OW unless there is legally-proven/documented proof of damaging or harmful behavior. Just because we think the alientator is an affair down, an idiot, a person of low morals, etc. does not mean a court will stop him/her from being present in your child(ren) life/lives. You cannot control anyone, least of all an adult who has rights too.
I am eight month post bomb drop but in years of MLC affects. You will see in my posts that our very young daughter first met the alienator only six weeks after H moved out and bomd dropped. We were covering up why daddy wasn’t home by saying he was always busy at work. Imagine then a then 3-year old going to a hotel and spending the night with her father and daddy’s new special friend. They have been to our first time ice-skating, swimming, outings to the mall and other places. D4 knows daddy lives with the alienator and goes to their home on their weekend day visits…notice I said “weekend day.” Early on, about four months after BD H wanted to try the overnight hotel stay again, and I put an end to it. I changed the locks, left for the weekend and said “your plans are off the table!” I was taken to court that Monday. His court order states many things including “no unrelated females during his parenting time;” and “no overnights” for him, HIS court order. I have been taken to court several times, he filed D, all because I choose to protect our child from his fantasy of creating a new family with his great new love. MLCers (and alienators) forget the fairytales that stepmothers don’t fare well and the stepchildren suffer at their hands during the turmoil. The message in all of the fairytales is always the same…no woman can truly love the child of another.
Your child will know it. Your child knows who is mommy and daddy. They may be tempted with toys, going out to fun places, and leniacy in their household but when push comes to shove children go to their parents;. At some point the OWs façade will drop around H and the kid(s). Keep giving your child consistency and structure and they will thrive. The OW will be just be a playmate for a while and that’s it. Trust me it does hurt and infuriate me that ANY other woman means anything to my child but I have to let it go because I live in society of laws. I can’t make her go away or banish her to an island with the other Misfit OWs (Toys.) I want to run away with my child all the time (and have the means to do so) but I don’t because I am standing, I have a life that is my own with or without H, and what would I be teaching our D4 anyway (and I don’t want to be a fugative.)
Yes, the OW wants to push you, the mother, out of the picture. She is insecure and needs validation from our pathetic MLC spouses. You are competition and will always be. You are the creator of the most prized entity the MLC has…your child. If OW does try to physically harm your child you must document and report it to your attorney and possibly child protective services immediately. Until you start using the law to your advantage there is nothing you can do.
My H always involves the alienator as much as possible thinking he is hiding it, and even when she is not directly there he is constantly allowing text messages to come through and repsonds to them during his parenting time. Our D4 already feels like a third wheel in his MLC life. She spends time with her father because she misses him and loves him but she is competing for his attention and sadly she knows it. That is what the Judge tried to caution my H about and he didn’t hear that message one bit.
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I have a very simple view on kids being introduced to the OW/OM in that we cannot control when/if it happens and we are wrong to try. Unless the child/children is in real danger of abuse or harm by this person then it isn't something we can control.
I see time and time again that children are used as a weapon against the 'walk away parent' in the name of the child's/children's best interests by LBS's who don't want the child to meet the OW/OM. This desire often comes from a place of fear - fear that the child will replace them with the alienator or will grow to love them or have fun etc.
When a spouse is in MLC they do not listen to reason or even follow through on agreed actions. Even when one parent (often the LBS) is trying to parent appropriately we are still faced with an MLCer who works on emotions and a huge sense of entitlement. They get what they want via fair means or foul.
I believe then only thing we can do is endeavour to influence the timings of such events and demonstrate pro-actively to our children that we are 'ok' with the situation and that they should go and have fun and enjoy the time with their Dad/Mum. We need to let go of the outcome and be the better option. We then need to be the rock the kids return to with their thoughts and feelings and emotions and be able to allow them to be expressed freely and without judgement. Meeting a new 'significant other' in a parents life is a huge step for children of any age and often it comes at a time when they handling lots of other change too. Kids need one 'sane' parent they can trust to put their interests first.
As kids get older they will be able to make their own minds up as to whether they meet or continue to have contact with the OW/OM in their 'walk away parents' life......time does its thing.
Just my 2 cents
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Moving Forward:
Quick question: What if the affair started only 6 weeks ago? Shouldn't one try to protect one's child? If the affair may just burn itself out very quickly, shouldn't we take precautions to expose a very young child to the OW?
(btw, I am talking specifically about the OTHER WOMAN here, not an Other Man. That's a whole other dynamic, I am sure.)
The OW is an affair down, but also more often than not has borderline personality issues, and can be dangerous. I am trying to anticipate how she might be dangerous in a very early but very fast moving situation, where, say, the OW has threatened the H and is forcing him to stop spending time with his family.
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I have to say UP, 6 weeks or 6 years doesn't really make any difference - the MLCer will do what the MLCer wants to do. Plus it is down to the MLCer to have the relationship with his/her child and to make it work (or not) and deal with the fallout. The MLCer's future could see them hooking up with lots of people over the years.....we just don't know right now.
As an adult the children caught up in these situations will see the WAP (Walk Away parent) for what they are as long as they have one anchor in this sea of madness. I am reading a book about the impact of divorce on children and the now adults say they see the WAP for what they are and that the volume or wives/girlfriends/husband etc made very little difference - the children of divorce have to align keeping secrets and new houserules and new people in each of their parents lives - not just girl/boyfriends. It is the ones who had a secure relationship with at least one of their parents and had a safe place to vent/be heard etc that have fared best into adulthood - although it has to be said it is the best of a bad situation rather than what is actually what is best .....but that is a whole different conversation!!
Keep your focus on your son, you and your healing and having sensible boundaries which keep your son emotionally protected, and growing would be my advice.
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UP
I also think the age of the child matters. At 5 your S needs you to set the boundaries and keep him safe. Small children rely on adults to keep control and maintain their safety.
As older children/teenagers they have more control and are able to set their own boundaries and expectations plus know when situations are not positive for them.
xx
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I am in a similar situation with young kids S7 and D2. I am scared about the day he will introduce OW, petrified in fact. He said in one of his discussions when he first moved out that "neither of us should introduce new partners to kids without the others approval and that we should set a timeaybe a year of being together before introducing." I was absolutely dumbstruck, this was utterly alien concept for me at time (I hadn't found out about his affair at this point so he had given this a lot of thought!).
I know we have to follow laws and can't control what our H or W do when they have kids but I believe as main carer and grown up I am going to step up and try and make sure the children introduced at an appropriate and sensible time (aaaaargh I hate the thought!). I feel that this man I married who was such a dedicated dad has just totally neglected the kids and their needs. Every single time he sees them he had presents for them or buys them stuff (and this is the guy who says he can't afford his own flat). I can see this is guilt but it's the thing my son is interested in when he sees his dad. Very very sad to watch. We just have to step up and try and be the constant and loving carer. Aaaaargh I'm so angry at what this is doing and going to do to them, so unbelievably angry.
Don't know if my perspective is any help, I am so new to all this so not really offering advice just my feelings and experience!
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Hey TT,
My post cam from experience - at BD we agreed that we wouldn't tell our children about the OW and my exH was the one who said that OW wouldn't be in their lives for a few years as he wanted to make sure that they got accustomed to their new life without their Dad being at home etc etc- this was in Oct/Nov 2009.
Fast forward to August 2010 and he was arranging, with the help of my best friend and her husband, to be at the Science Museum in London for lunch and to 'bump into' the OW in the restaurant. I found out about it and made sure that my children were aware of what was happening and that I knew all about the OW and that I was ok with it - children worry about the left behind parent and I didn't want my children to worry about me. It was the worst weekend of my life.
The initial meeting didn't go quite as planned, my son walked off when he saw her saying 'he wasn't going to meet that s**t' - oh dear.... Fast forward 2 years and my kids don't like her, they tolerate her as she is now their Dad's wife, they say she is brittle and boring and two faced. My daughter is very open about her, my son less so but I know they don't see her with love because THEY KNOW the part she played in the demise of their family. I have kept a very dignified silence on the whole situation,being age appropriately honest but never slandering their Dad and rarely the OW.
Kids, at any age, who are coping with divorce or separation need to have some stability and trust in one parent (best to have both but in MLC situations this is not possible). I have simply chosen to be that parent and act accordingly - it is so tough but it is the only way in my view.
be the better, safe option for your kids.
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This is sad but reality that we have NO control over OW being introduced or not...and it is part of the script in MOST sitches it happens as it's another way for alienator to STAKE her claim. The best thing to do is develope your intuition and talk to your children. If they are young, under 8 you can pay close attention to their PLAY because if anything is going on they will work it out through PLAY. I was lucky enough to get a guardian in the situation but I put my kids in therapy right away as it's another set of eyes and ears. If the MLC H is staying connected to the kids then , I believe, OW will be introduced. It is really hard but they WILL not see her as their mother. My children know who there mother are and OW is incapable of such a connection. In my sitch there was lotza buying in the beginning now D10 is working through intense hatred of OW as she is figuring things out ON HER OWN...this is key. Kids are very smart and yet the R with their father is very important too...even if he is out of his mind.
OW is know getting jealous of Hs R with kids and trying to control it more especially D10...She texts if they have one on one time together and call. One on one time is rare and yet she still is clingy. The children are a connection to the LBS so they threaten OW standing and yet in my sitch H would be sickened by her if she was unkind to his kids so she has to wear the mask or show true colors. She is BPD waif and does not discipline my kids...that boundary has been set by H and they follow it...so there is my .02. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
HUGS
BUGS
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Did she ever try to approach them even if you had told your husband there would be no contact between her and the kids while he was with them?
Yes
Did she try to turn your H against his child/children?
Yes, has supposedly said that our children are spoilt and that he lets them get away with too much, especially D18.
For instance: Did she try to keep him from making plans with his kids, or from enjoying family time (calling/texting specifically during family time).
Yes, H plus 2 kids were planning on an overseas trip together last summer; OW said that if h. took 2 kids then she should also go with them; if H. went with 1 kid then OK, also OK if H. plus 2 kids had a short holiday at a local place.
DId she ever succeed?
Yes. H. changed plans and had a short local holiday with 2 kids.
Did she hurt your children directly?
Not directly; however, h. told D18 what OW said, which upset D18 as her dad had put OW before his children.
Early in the affair or later?
1 year post BD.
Is there any way I can stop my children from being around OW, for instance, by proving she has BPD or a history of destroying marriages?
In my case, OW had been in a relationship with another married man prior to falling hopelessly in love with my husband. I believe she is BPD. There was nothing I could do legally to stop my husband introducing OW to our children although I made it very clear to my husband an my children that I did not find it acceptable. Suggest you look up the difference between Accept and Acceptable. I accepted what was happening; however, I did not and do not find it acceptable. It is also important to note that my kids are young adults and I also made it clear to them that it was them to decide what they wanted to do for themselves. After the first disastrous visit with dad & OW D18 did not visit again except to celebrate his birthday, father's day, other holidays.
And what do you think drives her to do destructive things toward your children? Or does she feel motivated to take them over and turn them against their mother?
RCR has some articles about the different type of alienators and it is worth reading them. Many do not want anything to do with the children of the MLCer as they want his/her full attention; others set out to take over the main role in the family. I haven't seen much on here to indicate that an OW feels motivated to take over the children and turn them against their mother.
My children realised very quickly that OW was not interested in them and was manipulating their father; they found this out by themselves. I do understand all your concerns especially with young children. If this is MLC then the chances are that the relationship will not last, yet it can, as you will have read a MLC relationship may last some years.
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"RCR has some articles about the different type of alienators and it is worth reading them. Many do not want anything to do with the children of the MLCer as they want his/her full attention; others set out to take over the main role in the family. I haven't seen much on here to indicate that an OW feels motivated to take over the children and turn them against their mother."
Hi there I can't find the articles about alienators, don't suppose you have a link? My H OW is only 23 yrs old, what interest she would have in 2 small children I don't know? I wonder if she is just having lots of fun with my H and taking advantage of his status and generosity and not serious about something long term? Seems such an odd thing to do, getting involved with a married father who is also your boss in a very small comPany. I would never do that, even when I was a naive 23 year old, or especially when I was a naive 23 year old. Pray it doesn't last!
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Hi there I can't find the articles about alienators, don't suppose you have a link?
I am going to guess to start here
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_personality-disorder.html
there are more articles that go with this that may help, look for the link on the side or at the site map.
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My H wasn't going to tell the kids or I for 3 months after he left about OW.
I found out after 10 days and not long after, he 'accidentally' bumped into her at the shopping centre when he had the kids with him for his usual Sunday afternoon. From then on he took them to her place for most of his weekly visits. The older 2 boys who were 9 and 7 at the time, spent most of their visits in the shed which doubled as her Belly Dancing studio. I soon learned that all the 'bras' hanging around everywhere were her costume pieces.
She and H would lock the kids out of the house for a short period for visist when "daddy went to look at OW's bedroom".
Yet, I could not do anything about it but I did bring it up at mediation and of course H denied it all. Kids can tell stories but this I believed.
She doted on D3 but not the boys. They hated her. H was told by their counsellor not to introduce anyone to soon but he ignored it. They can get attached to an OW and then it's another person who they have to deal with leaving.
D3 has been acting a bit unusual at pre-school and I wondered if it was because she hadn't seen OW for 7 weeks after getting to know 'dad's friend for a year. That is a long time in a 3 yr old's life.
There's not much point in saying anything to H as he just get's into monster. I said very little and prayed a lot. The kids saw through it, even s6.
H is much better when OW is out of the picture and I hope she's gone for good this time.
I do feel she may have been the one that muscled her way into the time with H and the kids as he did say to them "sorry but OW wants to see you so we need to go there" or "OW wants to come to the movies too". He just didn't have the guts to stand up to her.
H's sister's ex H has been re married for 10 years and his new wife still hasn't accepted his daughters. they aren't even allowed in their father's home to give him a birthday present!! That is so sad but then, theri mum is also pursuing relationships and even though my niece is 22 now, she still wishes her mum would just 'be' and stop persuing a relationship.
So I beleive Moving Forward's advice about being the stable parent is very important and the best thing you can do. The children's counsellor also said this and now I have heard it from the mouth of the child who's been though it.
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All of your comments have been so helpful. It is really good I think to have this thread where we can look at the different types, and get a bit of a handle on OW as a concept. I want to be able to prepare and protect.
One idea that I am strongly getting from reading these posts is to get my S5 into counseling. We will be reassessing the budget soon (or rather I will be), and perhaps that needs to be a priority, (H denied the need for it back in January).
It seems like whether OW wants to gain control over the children's emotions through close proximity or keep them out of the picture by influencing H the motivation is the same: Control of H. If she has the love of the children, she has more power over H. If she has him less attached to his children, she has more power over H.
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It seems like whether OW wants to gain control over the children's emotions through close proximity or keep them out of the picture by influencing H the motivation is the same: Control of H. If she has the love of the children, she has more power over H. If she has him less attached to his children, she has more power over H.
Yes, this is absolutely correct. OW wants power, whichever way that manifests.
Our children are now 14, 16 and 18. It hasn't been easy, as this has caused huge arguments with their Dad at times, but they have all refused to spend time with the OW.
He didn't mention her existence to them until 18mths post BD, and then he screamed at them because they said that they had no interest in ever meeting her.
RCR had said to me that if he ever insists, it would have to do with the amount of pressure that the OW was applying.
They had recently 'broken up' a couple of times, and I am sure this was one of her demands during the 'make up'.
I think your idea of getting S5 into counselling is wise. The toughest part of all of this is the effect that it has on our kids.
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My d is 22 so her R w. her father &/or ow is up to her. She is adamant that she won't meet ow. I think she has enough w. 2 parents & her boyfriend's 2 sets of parents & grandparents.
Just a note of interest: one way ow 'seduced' my h was to admire his parenting, 'you're such a good dad'. ::) Of course, later she added that my d should be 'happy that he's happy'. Need an emoticon for vomit.
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:¬(o)˚
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Tried hard with that emoticon.
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My D21.... 18 at the time found out about o/w before i did.....she was making a drink and h's phone was charging by the kettle......D said she only looked because it showed up a woman names......she read the message and was in absolute agony for 3 days......me and h had been back together over a wk .......he left for 6/7 wks and i never knew about her.........don't know if it was intuition or gut but i knew something was wrong.........because the day my D told me .......i was sent home with diarrhea that morning and only an hour later D breaks down in the kitchen and tells me.......she was absolutely heart broken and when she saw me literally fall to the floor with shock and grief..........she sat down beside me and we cried like never before..........awhile later when i do my inspector cluso bit and find out who she is..........i approached her and how i didn't kill her for the hurt she caused me but more importantly the torture she put my D18 through for those three days prior to her finding the text i will never know.........the o/w told me at that time that her and my h were finished and that he told o/w his heart would always belong to me (his wife lol) .......she also told me that she couldn't understand why my kids D and S would be upset as she said my D had told her she was happy for her and my h to be together .........well she dug her own grave with this comment ....because when i told D18 what o/w had said..............she got her car drove to o/w house and banged on the door (my D does not like violence) o/w wouldn't answer........so D18 shouted through the letter box that if she ever saw her out and about she would knock her out............my D18 was hysterical and her neighbor came out......o/w friends...........my D18 said do you know that wh*rer next door ......neighbor was like YES why........she said tell her i would never agree with what my Dad did to my mum never mind be happy that hes with that TRAMP.........you tell her from me if she knows whats good for her she will stay away from me.........o/w as never tried approaching my D or S ............her stupid lies made up my kids mind for them......they will never even acknowledge she exists..........so i never really had to worry about her seeing kids xxxxxxxxxxx
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WGH,
wow. intense! I am glad your daughter was able to be direct to say the least.
I worry about younger children feeling that much rage but not being able to express it.
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Wow, I have daydreams of going to H office and confronting OW. Can't even call her woman really she's like gawky teen! Have composed many tweets for her too, is it never a good idea to confront OW? I am not a person that believes in retribution or revenge, I believe the universe takes care of all that so would not do anything but I am tempted on a daily basis!
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I have tons of info on OW. She works at my favorite department store, unfortunately, and every time I go there I get queasy. So I thought I would face my fear and go down to the men's department and just LOOK. It was very strange. I didn't see her. I wonder if she would have recognized me from anywhere, like, say, his phone? The photos of me he has hidden in his closet? Meh.
I think it's safe for me to go shopping and not run into her. I don't think she works on the floor. (not going to touch that one).
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I would love to knock some sense into h lol ............
(http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/mjpexcommunity/Smileys%20and%20Emoticons/smashfreak.gif)
Not sure if this is h reeling o/w in or visa versa ;D ;D ;D
(http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/mjpexcommunity/Smileys%20and%20Emoticons/Banane26.gif)
This what attracts o/w to our h lol
(http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz25/mjpexcommunity/Smileys%20and%20Emoticons
/money1.gif)
This Mammas h ..........he likes stirring his soup x
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb252/Ronnies_Pets/smileys%20emoticons/th00008005.gif)
This is me galing lol
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff258/truckthis/emoticons/thCatWaterSki.gif)
Heres the one that was asked for in the first place
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/argorider/Emoticons/Puke-1.gif)
And finally sorry for the hijack but you would ask for emoticon lol ............xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff258/truckthis/emoticons/thCaution-1.jpg)
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I know lots of things about the OW - the key ones being that she was a spinster who slept with a married man when she knew he had 2 children.......enough said ......complete affair down who will reap what she sows which is.....currently being married to my exH (who happens to be in the middle of an ugly MLC) who has anger issues, is rubbish with money and Oh did I mention he is a liar who slept with a spinster when he was married and had two awesome kids.
No wanting to sound cynical but it is what it is.
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I love the icon! thank goodness! Will have to keep that one close to hand.
My H thinks OW is the pinnacle of feminine perfection. To think that he would have to be severely messed up. So, that may very well be the answer to the mystery as to why these women go for married men in MLC. They are hosebags who need an irrational idiot to tell them they are virgin queens.
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I know lots of things about the OW - the key ones being that she was a spinster who slept with a married man when she knew he had 2 children.......enough said ......complete affair down who will reap what she sows which is.....currently being married to my exH (who happens to be in the middle of an ugly MLC) who has anger issues, is rubbish with money and Oh did I mention he is a liar who slept with a spinster when he was married and had two awesome kids.
No wanting to sound cynical but it is what it is.
Hah, I love it!
Yes, this is xH's OW, as well.
Technically she's not a spinster as she was married (still is?) but no kids. Seems a lot of the OW never had kids--interesting. Probably a good thing as they are nuts.
Many of the LBSs never had kids, either, but they are not nuts--their H's are.
Lots of nutsos here.
Apparently xH's OW is not insisting on a relationship with my boys and neither is xH; my sons say he NEVER mentions her, has gone to great lengths to hide her. I find this interesting. I do think she is all fantasy for xH and he wants to keep his real life separate from his fantasy life, since his fantasy life makes him look immoral, crazy, etc. He actually carries a bit of respect, though his mask slips from time. Enough people know the truth.
It will be interesting to see if OW puts more pressure on xH when he returns from his 3 week trip away with our son. That could be a game-changer--who knows.
It's possible OW is also in MLC and she has no need or want to be with anyone else's kids.
I do like the advice to be your kids' better option--be the lighthouse for THEM. It can be tough. I know I fall from time to time when I'm feeling insecure or hurt, but I know the right thing to do is to bite my tongue until I can be sweet. My kids know I'm the non-crazy parent. You know, the one who gives good advice because she makes good choices? Yes, I'm THAT one.
:)
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WGH - I'm laughing & trying to copy emoticons. ;D ;D ;D
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WGH - I'm laughing & trying to copy emoticons. ;D ;D ;D
HINT - Hit the quote button to copy them then you can past them on another reply.