Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: stillhere on August 18, 2010, 04:46:35 PM
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I truly wasn't sure if I should put this in my story or start a discussion thread.
I've had a pretty rough few days and am going between strength and breaking down in tears. So I began to look back at my story, and am thinking about a time a few weeks ago when I was feeling very strong and becoming more detached. It lasted for a couple of weeks. I want and need that back. That time was preceded by a pretty low moment.
As I was reading my story and reviewing posts the thought occurred to me that each of us seems to go through a weak time and then become stronger and more detached.
Thoughts on this? Have you seen this kind of cycle in yourself? I have been reading in the posts that the strength returns quicker with each low time.
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YES! I have been cycling moment by moment lately. The cycles used to be longer (weeks of strength, and then maybe a day of sadness); now, I seem to be up and down every day lately. As you can tell by my posts, the cycle I have been in more lately is ANGER. It comes and goes throughout the day; sometimes, it brings me to tears. I know that I will be OK, but it still bothers me.
What gets me through, is to remember THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT! IT IS OUT OF MY CONTROL. That is my saving grace. and, of course, ALL OF YOU!!! Sometimes, all of you give me the strength to get through the tough times.
Thanks for starting this thread, SH!
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Just hoping to learn something FHO. I know I can't keep feeling what I'm feeling. I was just reading one of the articles on stages of loss. It was helpful to know that although I don't feel like it, I'm making progress.
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SH - I am right there with you! Earlier this summer I was GREAT!! Strong, detached, happy. Now, really not so much at all. I do have some external things in my case that are contributing to that, but I feel I am letting myself get down. I WANT that back.
We LBSs do cycle. We move through the stages of grief and that does seem to have back tracking even with forward movement (sounds like MLC doesn't it?).
I think we do need to face our sadness or anger or whatever it is and deal with it. To stuff it in is unhealthy and we need to do so to move on.
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Hi! I also usually feel good (if you can call it that) but than I have moments like last weekend and I get really angry at first than I leave the house and I get really sad then. That's another reason why I start going to IC to better understand my own feelings and to get back in tune with myself. I don't want to get angry anymore. But my IC said that me getting in touch with my feelings will mean that I will get sad, angry etc which kind of scares me. But right now, I get mad over trivial things (totally irrational), not often but it happens.
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I find with me it's to do with anxiety/worry. I can send myself down pretty quickly if I get on the worry train.
Yes, I cycle. But each time it gets a tiny bit better, i.e. it's not quite as volatile, I don't go down as far, I come back more quickly. Sometimes when it's not as volatile it seems that it's more cylcling; it used to be that I went down for days at a time, so by definition there were fewer cylcles....
I am very influenced by words, so sometimes just reading something can help enormously. I thought for a while that being on the forum was making things worse, then I find that if I read things differently, I can see that even though my mlc-er has been gone longer than most our experiences really are similar; it's a matter of outlasting it.
there is always something to learn here.
Still's latest thoughts have been very interesting.
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I also feel some concern re: being on this forum..do I spend too much time here? I certainly learn a lot and it allows me to process my own situation.....wow, some of you have really had horrific experiences and I am grateful that our situation continues to improve bit by bit.
I also experience anxiety..the waiting is difficult and there are many changes and challenges a head for us and he's still very distant and uncommunicative..sometimes I think technology makes it worse as in our case we are not even living on the same continent so there is no body language to pick up on....telephone calls and texts leave a great deal to interpretation.
I never did this before but now I analyse everything he says..I need to lighten up.
Talking to some trusted friends helps, all those things such as journalling, exercise, prayer help greatly. My doctor originally wanted me to take antidepressants but for me, that was not something I wished to do. I do however have anti anxiety meds which I take occasionally when I feel that I'm fighting the panic and cannot calm myself..sometimes they help me to get a rest and then move forward...however,I try to avoid their use as they can become addictive. I think that it's important to feel the pain, that after facing it, I can conquer my fear.....and it's surprising how often you can stare it down..and sometimes even laugh in its face.
I need to reestablish trust in my H, and he's still got a way to go in his journey and cannot say the words that I need to hear..that in the past I would turn to him to create "peace" for me..but now I find I can create that peace myself. Not all the time, but much more than in the past. Hang in there!
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I have found that when I have a low period, I come back stronger and more detached.
As I have been doing the work on me, I have noticed that I will have a low period that is followed by a break through in understanding the why of a behavior I have been struggling with - codependent, control, etc.
And that understanding always makes me stronger and more aware of who I am - which makes it easier to step back from my H and detach a little more.
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stillhere, yes a low is folloew with more strenght and it returns much faster each low time. Also, low times become further and further apart.
Start detecting that of low followed from strenght, and every time more quicker a couple of years ago. At first it was strange because things did not seem to affect has they use to. What was going on? Then I realised it was detachement.
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I'm So with you all. This week I've been Deeply sad, very very angry and guilty. I want to detach and sometimes feel great but he is still in the house (moved into son's room) and it's horrible. HORRible and I've told him I want him to move out. I cannot bear it that he is here and want him to go away so that I can protect myself financially and emotionally for my children.
My mind is still full of him and I know this is BAD and I should focus on me. but i'm not doing very well at the moment .
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MB,
So sorry that you are feeling so low.
I can't imagine how difficult it is to live with your MLCer.
It is difficult for the MLCer to leave, as well...but I don't have him in my face everyday.....
Hugs.....try to be kind to yourself today....let MLC and the issues just go for today.
There is nothing that you can do today to resolve it.....
Hugs,
L
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Good thread. I think that as a textbook case I get it. My H is a picture postcard of fear and panic frosted with substance abuse and a Fantasy Affair Down. :o Ok so if it's like a college course I know what to do. Keep on being who I am. Who I've always been. While letting my H twist in the wind bc God told me Trust Him. He's got this one. :)
I have little index cards with sayings on the dashboard of my minivan. When I get pulled in to a point where I might get teary..I put it back in the context of a college course. A college course that is like a Probation Sentence from the court. :o :o :o If 2 years will bring a new scenario, count me in. I wasn't doing anything else this year anyway :o besides raising my Ds and running a pharmacy. :) I will conitnue to treat my H like he's in a scientific terrarium. I can look in but don't meddle. :o :o :o
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There are days I am more detached than others. Today is one of those days, that I am "just." Not sad, not angry, not happy... 'just'. But that is ok. I have had a very stressful week at work. I've been on autopilot at high speed all week. I've got some external issues with my S17 and S21, and things at home, but all I can do is take it minute by minute.
I am doing my best to stay detached from my H. He sent an email to me this week about our dog that he has. My reply was simply "Ok" Before I would have asked questions, added commentary etc. Not this time. the one thing it did confirm for me is that he has kept my emails. He used an email that I sent to him in August about the dogs and cats that I have at home and forwarded that back to me to tell me about his dog. Funny, not in a ha ha way, just weird.
At least the sun is shining, my grandaughter is here ( napping ;)) and I'm getting laundry done. So today is one of those days the GED will be happy that she is not feeling too much. All the drama of the past week took it out of me.
I think detaching is the hardest part of this. And I understand why people who have been at it like me for a year, give up. It's tough to keep it up and stay detached without allowing the fears and expectations creep in. I had a complete melt down a few weeks ago. And since then I have made a concerted effort to remember the feeling of laying in a fetal position on the bathroom floor sobbing. I never want to feel that again. So I have to stay detached, as hard as it is.
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GED, Please I hear ya! From what my returned BIL told me THEY"LL BE THE ONES CURLED UP IN THE FETAL POSITION.....ONE DAY! Hard to imagine at this point but that's why we trust in the MLC process. What's the worst case scenario? : My H lives happily ever after drug free with ugly Bowser and all the crap he's buying for them at the Salvation Army? ::) That he spends the rest of his life seeing his Ds once in a while and his 94 year old Mom never? Doesn't even call brothers and sisters? ::) (They used to be close.) Ok so say he does all this and is Happy in his new life(worst case scenario) Then and only then will I NOT TRUST IN THE MLC PROCESS!!! LOL! LOL! :o :o ;D
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Sometimes I find it hard to attach rather than detach. In some ways, being on a forum for me, counts as a distant attachment so for all you know, I could be typing but crying too (but I'm not today ;) )
I went for a walk today and the isolation of the whole thing suddenly overwhelmed me. I love walking but on occasion, it aint helpful. GALing is good, but even this can be overdone and rather than detaching I think I overcompensate and then it kinda hits me, hence today.
Sil x
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GALing is good, but even this can be overdone and rather than detaching I think I overcompensate and then it kinda hits me, ...
Yep, sometimes, and at a certain stage in the process, we GAL to much to overcompensate. But, at least in my experience, the day will come when it will be leveled. We will GAL only because we want to GAL and are no longer compensating.
From year 3 onwards it becomes much easier to detach and GAL is no longer for overcompensation. Year 4 onwards everything becomes even more balanced. At the begining of year 6, well, it is a new life. Husband's life looks like THE HORROR to me.
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It's funny you say that AJ,
I have noticed the more GALing I do, the less GAL stuff he appears to do!
:D
Sil x
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Sil,
Can't say if the more GAL I do, less GAL husband does. All I can say is, lloking back, and looking at what I know of his current life (pretty much the same stuff he was into since he left), it all looks dreadful. Never a second of rest, always busy, always making sure he does not stop. Out and about until the early ours, clubbing, more clubbing. I get tires just of think how he lives. Glad he is with OW2 and not with that endless electric dynamo. I get to rest, read, walk, be with my family, look at the sea.
If the man won't slow down, sorry, even if he wantI can't have hin back. All that never ending doing things will leave me dead.
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Sounds like running, running, and more running...
If they would just SIT and FEEL. Again... nothing we can do about it. This time we can't even lead the horse to water.
Detachment is hard. I find it easier when H contacts me less (I have not talked to him since last Tuesday in person and only in a tiny email on Wednesday).
I cycle less when there is very little contact. I find myself forcing myself to stop thinking about him and talking about him. Friends ask how he is or how "we" are doing and I find I don't want to talk about it because it makes it harder to detach. I do worry about him, but I guess that is normal at this point since he has only been gone since Sept. 11.
I need to detach more and I hope it will get easier as time goes on.
Summer
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Summer, Hi, I find detachment comes after H starts acting nice. Monster left after BD so did H.......now he seems curious about me. Last few times I saw him he acts like he loves me but he lives with another woman. :o :o :o
I act like 'take all the space you need I am too tired to pursue you and you know I love you so what?'
Last night my intuition clearly told me not to worry. H would be back I shouldn't think on it anymore. ::)
Since then I smile when I think about. I love God and intuition. It's so important to listen to your inner voice.
Always make sure to keep that STOP sign Stayed recommends handy. When driving along and thinking too much of H or OW pull out the STOP sign in your brain. Say STOP I'll think of him later for 20 minutes but not now. ;D Stayed's stop sign technique helped me detach. 8)
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The only way I can detach myself is by repeating certain phrases over and over again in my head, some of these are:
When I think I cannot take anymore pain .....................................No pain No gain
When I feel impatient for my H to come out of the tunnel..............All comes to those who wait
When I think I cannot go on and missing my H..............................No one ever died of a broken heart
When I think that he just does not care.........................................What goes around comes around
When I feel that I am losing him to OW..........................................Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war
When I feel like hurting him as much as he has hurt me ...............How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours
I have many more and I use them in moments when I need some strength............they seem to help me!
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Good stuff Dandy!!
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While on the surface... all platitudes.. but like stereotypes... so very true...
Thank you
Me.
and a hug from a stranger!! :/
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Found this link from RCR's resources thread
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html
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Detachment comes I stages.
I watch mainly with bemusement but this time last year I was recivering from serious suicudal thoughts.
No fun
I spoke to a spiritual counsellor and he was able to guide me and teach me some techniques. And that was when I started to detach. I still note lots of things. I see it as important to note things. Small things big things because it could be small things that others will recognise and could be a marker in this thing.
And so I am an observer.
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HI there Dandy
whatever it takes :)
My IC advised me to think " THats not my future" to the negative things. Doesn't quick kick it for me, but it gives me an idea of how to cope and adapt it for myself.
cheers :))
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My IC advised me to think " THats not my future" to the negative things.
I really like that, actually. I may use that one for myself.
Oh man I have SUCH a hard time with this. The months of Monster were awful but I had moments where I was detached and looking at him as a person in need of love, and not needing me specifically. When I took a vacation on my own to GAL, it was the best time...
Now here I am about a month and a half later and I'm buying into what the alien tells me about how his "head is back on straight" and junk like that. I know he is still running, he has just found "happy" stuff to keep his mind from looking inward, and this will NOT LAST.
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Hi everyone!
Im really in the throws of This: one extreme to another.
I think i am supposed to go "no contact" with my husband.
But we see each other every other day since a few weeks past bomb drop.
Unfortunately he is dating someone as well and may have slept with her.
I want him to come home.
I had an EA long distance (7/11) that became a short-lived PA (9/11-10/11). There were few encounters and it was not that difficult to break free of the alienator by end of 2011.
I wanted to save my marriage but i was so scared I took until january to tell the truth about the PA.
Now my husband says he never planned to reconcile, not even when he said he wanted to in November.
Yet our love affair with each other persists.
He said today he will be angry for atleast another year. If not many years.
Im afraid to cut contact because i think this will give OW more power.
Im generally afraid of no contact because i want forgivenesss and to treat him well. I want to fill up his love bank.
What should i do?
Has anyone ever successfully used detachment to heal a relationship?
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Has anyone ever successfully used detachment to heal a relationship?
Detaching is not about healing a relationship. Healing a relationship takes two people. If your spouse is in midlife crisis, he or she is not interested in healing the relationship.
Detaching is to help you
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach_practical-applications-to-detachment.html
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Thanks, Dontgiveup,
In the questions on that page, RCR asks "Identify unfavorable belief systems".
Can someone help me with examples from their own experience?
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach_practical-applications-to-detachment.html
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A very fine line between withdrawing affection to punish and withdrawing affection to protect oneself and detach. How does one communicate the difference? How is one sure of the difference?
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detaching and no contact are two totally different things.
i strongly recommend against no contact unless absolutely necessary for your sanity.
i recommend you continue to be the lighthouse and pave the way. read rcr's site.
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A very fine line between withdrawing affection to punish and withdrawing affection to protect oneself and detach. How does one communicate the difference? How is one sure of the difference?
For me, withdrawing affection to punish means you are trying to affect him or his crisis. Withdrawing to protect oneself & detach is protecting yourself from being hurt. The more emotionally bound you are to him, the more vulnerable you are.
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My H is living with OW just about.I haven't had any contact with him for 3 weeks since he is with her all the time . He hasn't initiated any contact either . I really have no reason to contact him.So basically NC so I don't feel I'm able to do any paving the way while she's around that"s what is confusing to me.
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RCR has recommended No Contact for me. I am trying to implement it but failing. And I am finding that the more we are around each other the better we communicate. He is in the early stages of this, I feel, and I don't want to drive him into the arms of OW. Right now it's a revenge affair, and a band-aid. It's not that crazy. Yet. I want to be lighthouse. I told him about why my affair was such a mistake. I was very forthcoming. I hope it helps.
Detaching...Yes, I can detach better now while with him...It helps to recognize his behavior and view it as HIS not my fault. I can feel my own feelings then...not react to his.
Stronger, I feel it's really clear with this OW that RCR's texts are spot on. The OW is always someone insecure or an affair down. And I think your No Contact serves you well in that she will eventually be the annoying one, and you the safe haven. I don't know what I would do in your position, and frankly I am terrified of being in your position. I have a 5 year old son...I can't not see my H. I can't even think of how terrible it would be for my S if he had to deal with OW living with his dad.
Anyway, I digress. I Would like to explore more the idea that No Contact, maybe even just NO SEX could help my H decide he wants to be with me? I don't have any real assurances of that. My therapist has suggested it all along, but I just haven't intuited that as a likely option. I think helping him see that i am working on myself and changing and growing is better than no contact. That's me as the MLCer. But then him as the MLCer...well, another story.
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RCR has recommended No Contact for me. I am trying to implement it but failing.
I don't know your story but if RCR suggests No Contact, I would go with that.
And I am finding that the more we are around each other the better we communicate. He is in the early stages of this, I feel, and I don't want to drive him into the arms of OW.
But you can't keep him from going. Whether you are nice or not, if he wants to go he will go. In fact, the more tightly you try to hold on to him, the more likely he is to go. Even without MLC, a spouse who is clingy and desperate is not attractive, and people don't like to feel they are being guilted and manipulated into staying. As contradictory as it sounds, him going is more likely to help in the long run, because he needs to figure out that your marriage is not the source of his crisis.
Anyway, I digress. I Would like to explore more the idea that No Contact, maybe even just NO SEX could help my H decide he wants to be with me? I don't have any real assurances of that.
There are no assurances. There is always the possibility that your husband is an outlier who reacts atypically. Having said that, in many cases the advice is going to come from people who have tried the things that seem reasonable to you, to have them fail.
You should read the articles and other suggested reading material. Learning more about MLC will help you understand the process and how we do and don't play a role in the crisis.
I think helping him see that i am working on myself and changing and growing is better than no contact.
Like I said, if RCR has read your story and suggests No Contact, there is probably a good reason for it.
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I think from reading your story your H doesn't live with you right? My H has been gone this time since Dec. We are NC for the most part. We have had very little contact unless about the house, money, sometimes kids. Yes we have 3, one who is still a minor so being NC is ridiculous but honestly it seems to be the way he wants it so I have decided to leave him alone. It is very tough. I don't know who the OW is if there still is one and if so what the nature of their r is. I do know he has gotten into EAs with women at his job but don't know if he slept with them. My hunch is it is very likely.
I think detachment is for you. I wanted in the beginning to talk to him, see him, etc. I learned it was painful and he was usually a jerk. So for now I GAL and wait to see if he contacts me. I just don't see another way at this point.
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I will say that the NC I had early on was H's choice but it was the kindest thing he could have done for both of us. I was able to focus on me alone, detaching is easier because of the NC. I didn't like it but it did help, listen to RCR.
But you can't keep him from going. Whether you are nice or not, if he wants to go he will go. In fact, the more tightly you try to hold on to him, the more likely he is to go. Even without MLC, a spouse who is clingy and desperate is not attractive, and people don't like to feel they are being guilted and manipulated into staying. As contradictory as it sounds, him going is more likely to help in the long run, because he needs to figure out that your marriage is not the source of his crisis.
I agree with SS. Start filling your calendar and figure out things to do for yourself, it will make you be less available and more attractive as well as to feel good about yourself after all that is the most important thing you can do - take care of yourself. The more I pushed away this entire weekend (our first in almost 3 months), and focused on me the more H wanted me and increased his communication without anger.
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Stillstanding, Keepthefaith and FindingJoJo. Excellent advice.
Here is what RCR's marching orders are for my case:
No Contact (other than necessary for your son) while there is any legal process (on hold or not) that leads to separation or divorce.
He can resume contact by stopping those legal processes. But you need to add more to the out, he must also agree to counseling, but that part of the boundary does not need to be communicated yet. Just the No Contact while there are active legal cases regarding your marriage.
He just had the divorce case dismissed!!! But the day he dismissed it he slept with OW. (or so i believe).
Then the next part, (if the legal proceedings are dismissed):
No Contact (other than necessary for your son) if he is dating other women.
You don’t need to state this one right now, because the legal proceedings cover contact. If he stops those, communicate this boundary—the No Contact is still in place until he stops cheating.
This I have not been able to accomplish. I am still seeing him. He is still seeing her. That's why I am still discussing this stuff. I will probably be seeing a lot of him until we go on our vacation together next week. We will stay at the hotel we were married at. Do disneyland Etc. And then he leaves and S5 and I go stay with my parents for a week. Because he will be on his own for a week while we are out of state, I am going to communicate this boundary when we part, or upon our return.
I am sure this doesn't sound ideal, but for me it seems right, at the moment.
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Under pressure,
I couldn't imagine being in your position either .My children are grown and will make there own choice's about being around OW.My youngest can't stand her.My oldest well that"s a different story and he has never told me but he is ridden with guilt so I assume some kind of contact.The thought of having small children I 'm sure is a very painful thought for you.I guess indirectly maybe there is contact with me since he is down the road and drives by my house daily and knows what's going on and who is here and when I'm not home .
RCR is the expert keep working her suggestions.I have found ,much wisdom and comfort here on this sites.
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This I have not been able to accomplish. I am still seeing him. He is still seeing her. That's why I am still discussing this stuff. I will probably be seeing a lot of him until we go on our vacation together next week. We will stay at the hotel we were married at. Do disneyland Etc. And then he leaves and S5 and I go stay with my parents for a week. Because he will be on his own for a week while we are out of state, I am going to communicate this boundary when we part, or upon our return.
This sounds like a textbook example of "cake-eating"; he gets the perks of being married to you AND the thrill of the woman on the side which you are letting him have. MLCers are all about the personal gratification, so he won't give that up until he is forced to.
Heck, he gets to be the good father and go on family vacations with the two of you, then you are letting him be on his own for a week. What are the chances that he will be filled with regret and longing for you, when he has OW waiting for him?
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I'm not seeing an MLC with regard to your husband here.
Maybe you discussed this on another thread, but, have you started to figure out why you had an affair?
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Doc, thanks. Just as I was beginning to think I really had a clear understanding of H's MLC you say you don't see it!
My behaviour has mostly consisted of accepting blame for all of his problems and all problems in the marriage. Several times (3 during marriage) i sought emotionsl rescue from male friends. The most recent time this turned into a PA, and i feel i did that out of extreme anger.
There is much more to say about it and i continue to feel remorse and work on my codependency issues.
Meanwhile, H has possibly been in MLC for an extended time. His depression had been covert but palpable for possibly as ling as i have known him but reached crisis intensity 2 years ago. He began insisting on a "man cave" snd withdrawing to his office since i had no time to finish the basement for him. Last summer i snapped and started the project, including my own art studio, ignoring his man cave...this is a key expression of both our crises.
At BD he started deeply nostalgic replay and i became his own illicit affair.
He added OW in late June. He also has several fragmentary personas that i am meeting for the first time. He is on prozac. He has strange sexual behavior i have never seen before. He is drinking heavily. He talks about dropping LSD.
He has not hit bottom. This is sent from my phone, so its really brief, but i am inteested in your ideas as to why you think he is not in MLC. Thanks!
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I need to make sure that I understand the timeline here.
1. You seek the comfort, or emotional rescue, of several men during your marriage because [you're not happy].
2. You have a physical affair because [you're not happy].
3. He finds out about this.
4. He tries to work on the marriage, but he just doesn't seem that into it because his heart is broken.
5. He withdraws and tries to heal himself, but he just seems so off-balance that is behavior is odd.
6. He tells you that he's done.
7. He gets a girlfriend and moves on.
8. You want him back.
9. You're upset at him because he won't take you back.
If this is generally true, then I DEFINATELY see someone in crisis. It's just not your husband. Have you researched Borderline Personality Disorder?
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I am coming to this forum for emotIonal rescue too. I am isolated, although finally have female friends IRL and am not texting old distant male friends for help. The emotional relationship i had a few years ago started AFTER my husband threatened me with divorce. I had no intention of leaving my husband. I have never had any control over him. I still dont. He calls the shots. Even if i set a boundary he mAnages to turn it into some other way he controls me.
I am willing to look at myself. I am working. I am changing.
I see many ways i let him abuse me and many things i did wrong. But i am not the BPD in this relationship. I am the enabler.
I know admitting to having an affair on this forum leaves me eide open to all kinds of accusations and meanness. Nevertheless being here is healthier for me than seeking help from some supportive friend with hidden intentions.
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It really does not matter one way or the other who is in MLC and who is not.
The advice does not change.
We still must work on ourselves and become the best that WE can be.
We must live our life "as if" they are not coming back.
You are starting on that path UP don't let what anybody says push you off of it.
It is your path to walk and whether Doc is right or wrong does not matter.
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We won't be mean. :) Despite some necessary? ranting we know OP's or affairs are not the problem. Would that it were so simple! ;)
And it doesn't make any difference what is going wrong w. your marriage, the advice would be the same. The articles on self-focus apply to most people & situations.
Fr. top of page:
Remember The Hero's Spouse Mission Statement. Love each other, Love your Spouses and Love yourselves. The Unconditionals apply to everyone.
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Based on your reply, I will assume that my accounting of the facts is correct. Regardless, someone recently started a thread about the difference between guilt and remorse. I think that you should look at it as, in my opinion, you will have to cross that bridge REGARDLESS of whether your husband takes you back or not. I see guilt in your actions, but not remorse. I am not judging you, rather, I am merely telling you what I see. My advice is stop focusing on what your husband is doing, and to focus on what you have done and what you need to DO. Words are cheap. Actions cost. Love costs.
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Doc, I see yr pain coming out on this thread. I am sorry.
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I know admitting to having an affair on this forum leaves me eide open to all kinds of accusations and meanness. Nevertheless being here is healthier for me than seeking help from some supportive friend with hidden intentions.
As a man who with an MLCing wife who has cheated on him, I'll say this: the only person who has to answer to me for any infidelity they have committed is my wife.
I've seen this happen on other divorce forums. People who are hurting use others on the forum as proxies or stand-ins for their unfaithful (ex-)spouses. They can't punish their wives or husbands for cheating, so they take it out on others who have confessed to the same weakness. What you did, and why you did it, may be an incident in your life that you regret, and hopefully it has helped you understand yourself better; but you don't have to explain yourself to anyone here if you don't want to.
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I think it's a fantastic opportunity to learn more about the thought process that goes on behind the PA's most of us are dealing with, and I thank you UP for sharing your story, even if it is not my own. I know you're struggling with your own crisis too (which IS my story). Having had an EA years ago, I know the remorse/guilt article Stayed posted has definitely been heavy on my own mind and how I could have done things differently, and will, if and when the time is right.
The main thing is that we and our spouses are all human beings and on some level if we're not desiring to reconcile our marriages, we all at least share in common the desire reconcile this thing that has happened to us because of the choices they've made. It's all just learning.
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I think it's a fantastic opportunity to learn more about the thought process that goes on behind the PA's most of us are dealing with, and I thank you UP for sharing your story, even if it is not my own. I know you're struggling with your own crisis too (which IS my story). Having had an EA years ago, I know the remorse/guilt article Stayed posted has definitely been heavy on my own mind and how I could have done things differently, and will, if and when the time is right.
The main thing is that we and our spouses are all human beings and on some level if we're not desiring to reconcile our marriages, we all at least share in common the desire reconcile this thing that has happened to us because of the choices they've made. It's all just learning.
I'm not saying that UP should refrain from telling her story, only that she doesn't have to feel obligated to respond to people, especially those who may be lashing out at her because of what their own spouses have done. In the stories I was thinking of, the women who confessed to having an affair in their past were called selfish or irresponsible, and were basically told that they deserve no sympathy because of what they had done to their husbands or ex-husbands. That's not helpful to anybody.
I don't decide who "deserves" to have their marriages saved based on their life story or the choices they made. In fact, for a time, I didn't even read peoples' introductory posts on here. If I wanted to know something about their relationship or circumstances, I asked for clarification; this kept me from being distracted by irrelevant bits in the person's story.
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Thank-you everyone for the "emotional rescuing" i was seeking, including Doc, (whom my 5 year old child is fond of). I realize of course that the terminology is far too loaded for casual usage or applicable usage in this case (emotional rescuing). When we say "Help me" we are not necessarily saying that we need someone to sacrifice everything to help us, selfishly. Sometimes God can help us and no one else has to. Still, a cry for Help is a need of rescuing. I need rescuing. I have loved this man for 13 years. I still love him. I don't know how to help him. I can't fix him. I need to detach. First principal of Al Anon. He is abusive, narcissistic, controling and emotionally unavailable, and I still love him. IT IS OBVIOUS to me that as we both reach intense levels of identity crisis that I must learn to be a ninja at detachment and right now I am a blundering novice.
I did not seek to be unfaithful, but recognize that talking about my marriage with ANYONE, stranger, friend, male, female, is considered by some to be a supreme infidelity. That would make all members here, secretly posting their intimate scenarios to be unfaithful to their spouses. Well, I don't exactly buy that. But the point is once we enter into the unstated contract of discussing our common struggles here we also enter into a certain state of pre-forgiveness. "I forgive you for the crime you are about to commit against your marriage by telling me everything without consulting your spouse". I expect that part of that forgiveness should involve a suspension of judgement for my SAME error of revealing everything wrong with my marriage to two male friends and two female friends without telling my husband and thus creating a sort of emotional affair with in this case at least 4 people, Sheesh. My two female friends told me to leave him based on his treatment of me. I decided I needed to consult my male friends. One quickly broke down and tried to involve me in an EA which I refused, the other took our friendship to new levels, told me he loved me, but made no claim on me in any other way. This relationship probably made my H take notice and H asked me to stop talking with him. It was inapropriate even if unintentional and distant. He was right and I immediately stopped. But our problems persisted. This was several years ago...
So now I am not turning to any close friend for advice about my husband, except that I am talking at length with my two sisters in law. They are not my husband's sisters, but they are the wives of my husband's brothers. They are experiencing similar abuses within their marriages and one of them in particular is becoming demonstrably good at detaching with love. She may save her marriage because of it. This is my aim.
I think there is a lot of personality disorder involved in my marriage, but I am not going to start accepting blame for everything wrong with my marraige AGAIN, and certainly not for everything wrong with someone else's marriage! I don't understand my husband. I think on some days his behavior fits the MLC script to a T ,and then on other days I think...wait? what? OF COURSE i feel remorse for what I have done. I continue to apologize. At first I still felt anger and guilt and not remorse. I was defensive. I was STILL ANGRY. My switching this final EA to a PA was done out of anger. It was an "end game". I was destructive and out of control. I was also scared, hurting and lost. H thinks his current MLC was caused by mine. I think mine started well after his did. I am not sure that it matters. We are both having severe pain.
He loves me. He has been making love with me since BD and continued to make love with me after he started seeing this other woman, whom he TOLD me about in advance. Every time I cry to him about it he says: "But it was OK for YOU TO DO IT" and so everyone could easily think this is simly a revenge affair. He is certainly getting his revenge. I am in serious pain that I will never ever ever be able to forget. If that is what I did to him, I shudder. I never thought what I did at the time would hurt him that much since he seemed to not really care about me anymore...I was wrong. And Doc is helping me to see that. Thanks to Doc I texted with H while at Legoland and S5 was in the wading pool. I just cried and texted. He texted too. He said "Spilt Milk".
He continues to treat me lovingly. Although it is all very confusing. The night he left me to move in with his mother he said through tears "I have treated you so badly for so long, I will never do that again."
There is more to this than a simple case of a Borderline Personality Disorder Girl recking havoc on a poor fool who loves her. In fact, it's got nothing to do with that. That's just not the case. But even if there is disorder and neurosis (which there certainly is) we are talking about 13 years, a child, a stepchild who cares deeply for her brother, and extended family that is hurting deeply too. I think everyone wants to fix this. Learning how to let him go while he still talks with me everyday, wants dates, wants sex, wants love from me, that's what I need. He IS a clinging boomerang, he IS in crisis. He is not making sense, but he is loveable, I love him. I want to help him by letting go. I don't know how to do it. I keep messing this up.
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You know, I didn't see Doc being mean or anything like that. In fact he said the same questions I was thinking. I'm glad you are brave enough to be honest, it must be tough.
IMO never an excuse to cheat, but it's water under the bridge now and given another chance, I doubt you would have taken that road. It just causes too much pain for everyone including the kids. Now what he is doing is wrong and you are allowing cake eating. No easy way through this.
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Not that i want to drag myself thru this but for everyone's sake, MLC happens to people who have previously unresolved issues, whereas MLT is the normal mode for everyone else. I started a thread elsewhere about BPD and the OW and there was at least one reply that evoked the susceptibility of people closely exposed to others with Borderline psychosis who begin to perceive themselves as having the same symptoms.
In tears i asked my SIL if she thought i had BPD. She replied emphatically no. I asked my H if he thought i had it just after Doc posted his diagnosis. He said there are a lot jerks online.
My H had been married to a woman with BPD for less than a year before i met him. He is a defense atty in insurance and deals with medical evidence daily. Hecis extremely well read. He has known me gor 13 years. He is wrong about many things but it is odd for him to overlook BPD if that is indeed my problem.
Meanwhile i still find myself in tears when i discuss this stuff.
Im going on a zen retreat for women with my
Other SIL. Im goung back to al anon this week and...i will have someone other thsn my husbsnd puck me up at the airport. But i love him so much it is physicslly painful daily to go thru this. I want to focus on mysrlf...jee that sounds great...but i have this child here without his father.
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Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness.
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
I have started having anxiety attacks since H started sleeping with OW. Its a short period of constriction where inseem to be forgetting to breath.
I have no intense anger or physical fights. I am having more alcohol than i want (want 0) while with my parents who drink. But when i get home i will be back to a carb-free alcohol free lifestyle.
Im sorry, Men, but overall i leave it to You to prove I have BPD. I just dont see it. Unless you think my anxiety and fear of being abandoned by my husband is indicative if psychosis? Is everyone here BPD then?
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Why exactly are we trying to prove if someone does or doesn't have BPD? UP, if you are concerned about what emotional issues or personality disorders you might be suffering from, then I think you should be talking to a psychiatrist. It might also be a good idea, to help you deal with learning detachment.
In my opinion, I don't see how you can develop detachment in the situation you are in. You take what he says and does far too personally which is probably the worst thing you can do, with him being deep in Replay. You are still emotionally and sexually involved with your husband while he is seeing (and sleeping with) someone else, which confuses you far more than it does him; heck, he probably thinks this makes him a total stud—he's got two women who can't keep their hands off of him! Does he think he's going to get to call you up for the occasional booty call after the divorce is final?
Setting and enforcing boundaries will not be that hard, once you accept that his plans to divorce you have little to do with your behavior in this relationship. He is planning to leave because that is what he thinks will make him happy, and nothing you say or do at this point will change that. If anything, this gives you more power in your situation: he's already filing for divorce, so if you tell him to get out of the house as long as he is seeing OW, what is he going to do? Divorce you more?
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"Im sorry, Men, but overall i leave it to You to prove I have BPD."
I saw doc ask if you had researched it, unless I missed something.
I know nothing about it myself. It sounded as if you think all men here were
saying you had it. And I may have missed it but that was the only reference I saw.
I don't group all women together on what one may have said and I'd appreciate
the same respect. My post was referring to your affair / affairs.
It's 100% up to you in what you do. We support each other here very
well. However folks will also say what they think. Some may hit you
with a 2x4 wrapped in foam, covered with velvet, and some will just
smack ya with one bare. It's up to you to do what ever you will with advise that's given.
We will support you anyhow. We have all made huge mistakes with this, and it doesn't
really matter, because this isn't about us. It's about a person in a crisis.
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I see guilt in your actions, but not remorse
UP
On your other thread where this has been discussed in depth I see remorse. And part of the remorse is guilt. You don't have to justify yourself to anyone here just yourself and God.
IMO you are moving towards forgiveness of yourself from your affair. You know that needs to happen before you can move forward. Part of that is to gain detachment for you to heal for you.
At the moment you are starting many discussion threads. IMO this can and is confusing for you and makes you swirl like a tornado.
The positives I see since you started posting are acknowledging your affair and how it impacted on yourself, your H and your S. An ability to understand detachment even though you need to continue to learn to get there and an acknowledgement from you that your marriage hasn't always been calm and peaceful due to the character of your H.
Questions are good and let us gain knowledge and insight unless we are sooo vulnerable that it makes us dig our hole deeper. IMO emotionally you are getting stronger. But you are willing to agree with everyone about your personal situation and about your H. Take a step back. Reread your posts and you will get the answers you are asking at the moment.
And for what it's worth I don't think your BPD either just an emotionally traumatised individual looking to make things right.
xx
Rebel
I believe the quote Im sorry, Men, but overall i leave it to You to prove I have BPD was aimed in a general direstion of posters who had raised it and not at all men in general :)
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One thing to remember is that we don't or should not make any diagnosis of a personality disorder or medical condition. We give advice based upon the facts you have given us. We have to base our advice on what we read and hope that it understand what we read. We then have to write and try to convey our message in words that hopefully help our friends on the forum.
I am going to go back and look at your statements and hopefully you will see a pattern.
My switching this final EA to a PA was done out of anger. It was an "end game". I was destructive and out of control.
From my point of view, you have been destructive and out of control for a long time. Your issues are deep and troubling. I am not a therapist, but I have read your threads and your posts. I am not writing this to hurt you but to let you see that regardless of your h, you have to work on your issues and become strong.
[/quote]I was raped when I was 11 or 12. Maybe about to turn 12. Not sure. It was at a party I and my friend should not have been at. I had felt ill and went upstairs and locked the door to the bedroom so I could sleep it off. This 20-yr old guy came upstairs, got in the door somehow, and raped me. I was screaming but no one heard me. Afterwards I was completely unsure what to do, so I stayed with my friend at the party, and I became my rapist's girlfriend.[/quote]
This has resonated with me for a long time. Party, alcohol and drugs were involved, and a rape. Throughout your posts, you often refer to alcohol and the consumption of alcohol. Often you feel compelled to drink (parents and h). It is something you don't want to do, but you end up doing it anyway. Sound familiar?
I preyed on boys at times (asking them out, using them, dumping them) while in HIGHSCHOOL. But I also continued to be preyed on, in situations similar to that first time. Making myself totally available to MY RAPIST.
Once again, despite your desire to stop, you don't. This has been going on for a long time and this behavior does not develop healthy relationships. In fact, it leads to a deep resentment and anger that you recognize. It is one thing to be attacked and never to see the attacker again, but to have to submit to your rapist again and again is very destructive. He was controlling you and hurting you. Yet went back to him despite everything in you body and mind saying no.
I see many ways i let him abuse me and many things i did wrong.
You have lets lots of people abuse you and then blame yourself. It all rolls back to the issues you have not dealt with or allowed yourself to heal. Once again, your own guilt and self-loathing makes you feel guilty.
I want my life back
What life are you talking about? He has been an abusive spouse for a long time. You did not engage in your EA and PA because you felt your life with him was bliss.I am also very sure that the EA/PA was neither fulfilling or desired, but once again, you felt compelled to "do" something. I think your comment should be "I want a life without the guilt and blame I have been carrying for a long, long time."
Part of my journey is to learn how to set boundaries to keep him from abusing me (verbally, emotionally) and letting him control and manipulate me into victimhood.
Is having sex with him accomplishing this? I think you really need to go back and read what RCR wrote and take those words to heart. It is interesting that as a true victim, you look at him placing you into a place that you already occupy. In fact, part of your guilt and self-loathing is being a victim. Let's face it, the number one thing a rape victim states that fills them with disgust is that they wanted to fight back and hurt their attacker and they did/or could not.
May I be so bold to suggest that you learn to make and set boundaries for you. How about no drinking? How about setting goals and expectations for yourself.
He loves me. He has been making love with me since BD and continued to make love with me after he started seeing this other woman, whom he TOLD me about in advance. Every time I cry to him about it he says: "But it was OK for YOU TO DO IT"
Does that sound like love? I am not here to judge you or him but just because one person has an affair does not make it okay for the other to have one too. Everything about his ACTIONS show control and manipulation. That may or may not be MLC, but it does reflect the issues you have had in forming relationships with men.
Im sorry, Men, but overall i leave it to You to prove I have BPD. I just dont see it. Unless you think my anxiety and fear of being abandoned by my husband is indicative if psychosis? Is everyone here BPD then?
This is very interesting and I really feel that you made the comment to men. You see the diagnosis as an attack and I actually see you fighting back as healthy. For so long you have been hurt and I see someone that needs some real TLC (hugs and validation) that your h cannot give to you right now.
I really do pray for you and your son and I mean you no harm. I really think you should have nothing to do with your h or any men in general until you resolve the issues that have controlled you and haunted you. In fact, a healthy you is more important than your marriage and it will help you be a loving mother and a capable and emotionally sound person. Then you can start to pave the way.
((((hugs))))
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The comments & advice on this thread are making me uncomfortable--don't know exactly why but I have to follow my instincts.
UP - if you are wondering about BPD or anything like it, you should get advice from a therapist [& be careful who you choose for a therapist]. Some people here are professionals but I don't think they would use this board to communicate with you.
I don't buy this BPD stuff. It seems to be a fashionable way to analyse people, at the moment, but these theories come & go so I never accept anything until considerable time has passed. Because I am almost 60 :o :o :o I have seen many fads in education & psychology so am skeptical of all. Like my bil says, 'whatever became of oat bran?' ::) Oat bran was considered the answer to almost all health problems, what a decade ago?
You are very vulnerable at this point; I am still vulnerable & it is 15 months post BD. Take what you need from any source & leave the rest. Anything safe that helps you thru the worst, use it. I found the one thing that helped me was to get a lot of exercise. Physical exertion gets rid of your energy & anger, makes you calmer, clears your head & lasts a lot longer than meds or alcohol. ;)
I don't know if anyone has said it but you are not crazy, just really hurt. :'(
You are strong enough to handle this mess. The proof is that you are here, looking for answers, not in a heap on the floor. :) :)
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One thing to remember is that we don't or should not make any diagnosis of a personality disorder or medical condition. We give advice based upon the facts you have given us. We have to base our advice on what we read and hope that it understand what we read. We then have to write and try to convey our message in words that hopefully help our friends on the forum.
That is something that cannot be stressed enough; none of us are in any position to offer more than general advice when it comes to personality disorders or medical conditions. It would be irresponsible for anyone, even a qualified professional—especially a qualified professional—to attempt to diagnose someone they have not seen in person. So I agree with the suggestion that questions about BPD, codependency, or compulsive behavior would be best directed to a licensed therapist in your area.
This thread was started to discuss detachment and its role in saving a relationship. As I said before, I don't know how you can successfully detach and heal in the situation you are in now. Your husband, whether MLCing or not, is taking advantage of your confusion and your pain to have the best of both worlds: he can blame you for everything that is hurting him right now, live out a deluded fantasy life with OW, and gets to sleep with you both at the same time.
Surgeons have to have detachment in order to operate on people, including kids, who may be suffering from hideous ailments or traumatic injuries; but you wouldn't say that detachment saves those people. Detachment is not what heals a relationship; it's what heals you so that you can work on reconciliation when the time comes.
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There is a lot to respond to here. Maybe even more to answer to here than the inadequacies I actually have to work on! ;) My writing truly needs work as well. I am struck by how bad it is and how it fails to say what i think i meant. I apologize.
I do hope i can communicate better as a learn detachmrnt and refain my emotional stability.
I proposed when i first posted that I was suffering from a midlife crisis in conjunction with my husband. I suspect this is the case and i am somewhere around liminality, working. Not in replay or not much. I could be wrong. I have more reading and work to do. Detaching from H will be the best thing for me i just cant seem to stick with no contact..until now, maybe. Until this morning.
I started this thread because i simply wanted to hear about other's ideas fir detaching, maybe even from folks who have had a particularly hard time doing so with their clinging boomerang. Or their very codependant or abusive-controlling relationship.
FWIW, i did nit mean "all men" just the men here in thus thread. Maybe i come across like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction with a hatchet. I dont feel that way at all. Im sad and hurt.
I had a difficult adolescence. I was adopted at birth. But i was an achiever, talented, deans list. My issues were minor and forgotten, until now. I exploded the date rape incident because it gets at the core of my boundary problems. It doesnt control all of me, but it loomed large as i felt my best most trusted friend betray me utterly and do horrible horrible things just as he had told me he had driven me to my EA and would never treat me like that again. I guess he meant it would only get worse.
I have been with my H for almost a third of my life. During that time our blow-outs are probably less than it feels like in number. Im so tired and overwhelmed i find myself counting one of the fights several times. The moment seems fractired into several moments. So let us say 4 times in 13 years we had serious conflicts. Two of those times i sought legal advice because he threatened me with divorce. He seldom apologized. Once he said "thanks forcnot putting up with my sh:t" which was his form of apology.
But most of the time we were happy and liked each other.
When something like this happens i think its natural fir me to focus on the most drastic moments in my life and marriage.
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And i apologize for taking Doc's sly exposé to mean he fircsure thought i was a person with BPD. For the record, he also told me to go read about true remorse vs. the meagre guilt i carry around (oops, paraphrasing, not meaning harm) but i had actually already read AND posted to that topic in what i felt was an honest and forthright way. I am sorry but I do feel that was a tad unfair.
To change the subject completely:
Has anyone ever done meditation and something involving a meditative cutting of energy cords? I have had a buzzare experience with this in the past that is not easily explained by western science. thinking it might be worth reinvestigation and have started trying to cut energy cords with my hand during lotus posiition and prana breathing.
CJ: BPD confuses me. But i understand the idea as borderline psychotic behavior.
I dont truly expect to be diagnosed here. I do expect to stir up discussion, ask hard questions. Lok for answers in myself. These guys bark louder than they bite ;) and certainly are doung me a great deal of good by challenging me and my illusions.
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Reading some RCR pages I came across this:
(Left Behind Spouse Stages)
Adapted from Olga Botcharova's Seven Steps Toward Forgiveness1
Bomb Drop
Panic & Anxiety
Denial Throughout
Shock
Bargaining
Hopelessness
Realization of Loss
Denial Continues
Becoming a Victim
Suppression: I'm not going to deal with this right now.
Anger
Self-Pity Anger: Why me?
Guilt, Shame, Humiliation
Self-Righteous Anger: blames spouse
I'm Done.
Due to either anger or helplessness, may be fleeting
Justice & Revenge--the need to destroy
Fantasies of revenge
Occasionally small scale pranks
Hell hath no fury...
Becoming the Scorned Woman (Second Inner Circle)
Rewrite Story: define heroes & villains
Reinforce Innocence
Deny Responsibility
Dehumanize Spouse
Justified Aggression
Roles Change: Victim to Aggressor
This feels fairly accurate to me in terms of the explanation of much of my behavior from 2009 onward. So I find myself asking myself which one of his stunts was the REAL bomb-drop? His stonewalling was continual in 2009. He may have as well been one of your spouses, the way I have heard them described, still living at home. I did act like this outline above. Pranks included buying serverware anyway so I could complete photos for cookbook and hiding the purchases in the driveway so he wouldnt freak out on me for spending $100. Maybe the prank of showing him all the attentive FB chat from doting highschool friend. I don't know. But I feel my life's events in the above list. The change from Victim to Aggressor coincided with me allowing OM into house to help me finish basement. That certainly drove H out. But when we went in for counseling I knuckled under and went back to victim. Stayed there for several months.
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Yeah simple question, but...
If there has ever been a thread on this topic, could someone link this please? I can't find anything by doing a search.
I kind of know what works for me but am interested in hearing others opinions or suggestions & I mean EVERYTHING that helps detach, from physical activity to meditation [or medication? ;D].
I will start by saying by looking at my husband's behaviour as a manifestation of depression* I can remove myself from him i.e. not take it personally. *I do understand the difference between disease & dis-ease but there is little :-\ doubt that depression is a huge part of mlc.
Anyway it would help me to have other ideas & could be a valuable reference for new people.
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I have one--a sense of humour! We have a lot of material!
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Dream your own dreams--I find when I make plans that have nothing to do with him, from painting walls to replanting my garden to planning a trip or even my weekend, I stop thinking about him. I don't miss him. When I have fun with my children, I don't miss him.
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I haven't really figured it out yet. With a live in clinging bomerang it's almost impossible. I just take one day at a time, exercise, keep busy...live.
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http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=464.0
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This is by far the hardest thing for me to do. Deep breathing is helpful. Preparing myself before I see him by checking my negative attitudes and trying to reframe things in a more positive light helps. My non-forum mentor likes to tell me that this is a positive thing that my H is doing because he is becoming a "whole person" who is clear about what he wants in life and if he didn't go through this MLC he would never be a whole person. She says to "see it as a long term investment in your marriage."
Other things: reminding myself to be in the present moment, working on things that are meaningful to me, spending LOTS of time with friends and family.
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What if when you try to detach they latch onto you? Every time I even say I am doing something without him he is instantly more attentive....if I don't call or text him he is calling me....he is home...very new to this BD was just 6 weeks ago...he is still talking to his OW but she lives far away... don't know if she is planning on moving here or not..thinking that would be silly on her part she has only known my H for 6 weeks...so she is a stupid stupid girl (25 yrs old) my H is 40. Most of the time he is pretty nice to me BUT hates it if I try to talk to him and hates it even more if I ignore him??? How the heck do you detach from that.....I fell like if I do he will go crazy and will then have more ammo to sling at me like..."see you don't care about me" ect ect
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Most of the time he is pretty nice to me BUT hates it if I try to talk to him and hates it even more if I ignore him??? How the heck do you detach from that.....I fell like if I do he will go crazy and will then have more ammo to sling at me like..."see you don't care about me" ect ect
Mine uses anything I say for ammo. Anything. So I keep it light & breezy & neutral. You cannot win. You talk about relationship = pressure on the poor guy. You are bright & cheerful = you don't care about the poor guy. Aaaargh! ::) ::) ::)
Re: detachment. At times when I see him, I feel like I am watching myself in a movie--almost a druggy feeling. I am there but watching. ??? I think it is the surrealism of the whole mess or I cannot quite believe it is happening. :-\
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If he is going to be mad whether you engage with him or not, then the answer is "do whatever is best for your state of mind."
I think that the key to detachment is recognizing the HE is responsible for his feelings and his reactions. Not you.
As for him accusing you of not caring for him: 1) you are not responsible for his reactions. 2) if he does bring it up, point out that your actions have nothing to do with your feelings for him. But they have everything to do with his behavior.
Six weeks is a very short time in MLC-land. Don't worry about getting all of this "right", right off of the bat. You are dealing with a lot right now--shock over his BD, anger and hurt from his betrayal and infidelity--so worry about getting yourself to a better place.
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Re: detachment. At times when I see him, I feel like I am watching myself in a movie--almost a druggy feeling. I am there but watching. ??? I think it is the surrealism of the whole mess or I cannot quite believe it is happening. :-\
I don't know if that is due to detachment.
My favorite example of detachment is this: detachment is what allows an ER surgeon to operate on a small child who has been grievously injured in an automobile accident without falling apart emotionally. It's not lack of emotion; it's being able to overcome or set aside the emotional response in order to deal with a situation in a rational manner.
Something that will aid in detachment is knowledge; the more you understand about the situation, including MLC, the more you will be able to deal with it in a detached manner. It's not about how to feel about your spouse, it's about how you respond to HIS emotional state.
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It is so detachment. JK. No I do consciously try & 'stand back & watch.' Acting I guess it is. Just feels surreal b/c this is my h, this is my life...weird.
Old Pilot --thanks for linking.
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I found it far easier to detach when H was out of the house. Convinced myself nothing bad's going on, just me being alone. I could cope with that, keep myself busy.
Finding it hard to be properly detached now that H is back living in the house. Keep trying to adjust my day to suit his (v bad idea). Keep responding when I should bite my tongue. Keep triggering messes. I say one sentence too many, or touch him when he doesn't want to be touched... back to square one. ...Well, not quite square one. Square one was panic-ridden and a fog of fear (of screaming, of physical threats, whatever). Can call this square two. Ice cold, like water down the back of the neck.
If square one was too hot, and square two is too cold, is it possible there will be a square three that's just right?? Here's hoping.
Asked friend of mine who had gone through her partner's MLC, what was the best thing she learned. She told me "sense of humour, and pants with belt loops". Apparently the weight loss is permanent... :D. If we didn't have humour, this would all be unmitigated tragedy. But we have humour, and weight loss.
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There should be another thread for 'good things' about your spouse's mlc [if you don't have kids]
-you can wear a t-shirt to bed [even the one you wore all day if you want...]
-weight loss that does not come back because you can eat what you WANT or not eat
-you can sleep on the couch with the tv blaring
-you can turn the light on in the morning without anyone complaining
-you can throw all the covers off if you have a hot flash
i could go on. And why do I want him back?
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Now there's an excellent idea Calamity. Do you want to start the thread?
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Nah. I'll get maudlin. ;)