Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Voyager on August 20, 2010, 08:41:23 PM
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Hi everyone,
In my own threads I've sometimes asked the question how do you deal with the disappearing MLC'ers?
A lot of people on the board either still have their spouses at home, or have frequent contact.
This is extremely hard for them as they bear witness to the unfolding drama and it must be very stressful.
I'm not sure how many spouses there are who have either a vanisher, or a spouse who has minimal level of contact, or one who alternates between both.
My h is probably both of those, he only responds after I initiate contact, if I didn't initiate contact he does not respond.
I have not initiated contact for three weeks now, he has not responded, apart from the strange e card he sent to my Daughter last Tuesday.
I think there are two main difficulties with this, firstly it can be hard to keep Standing when there's a black hole where your spouse used to be, and secondly on rare occasions when you do see them it feels really hard to initiate or respond to conversation. It feels like every contact is starting from scratch and every contact should "count" in some way.
Does anyone know if the Vanishers are a type that are more likely to stay vanished?
Do they break cover eventually?
Do they ever get to a point where they want to talk about their feelings?
Escape and avoidance are classic MLC behaviour, with this group it seems to be more extreme, do we know why?
Any information and advice would be helpful!! :)
EDIT:
Link back to contact types to register your MLC type
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
Oldpilot
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Hi V
My H is one of those..most contact is initiated by me...very rare that I see or talk with him! I was just discussing this with someone esle from another board whose H is the same as ours...we don't get much of an opportunity to interact with them so when something comes up...we are at a loss of what to do...I am very interested to hear what others have to say!
EDIT
Although CW does not really post here anymore she has been reconnecting/reconciling with her husband. - OldPilot
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I would also like to hear more about the vanisher. I have had NC at all with my H since January. I have seen him from a distance a few times, but he makes sure he STAYS at a distance. I walked up to the pharmacy one day and he was sitting at the drive thru window waiting for them to bring him his meds. As soon as he seen me walking up he just drove off. He sat out in the parking lot and waited till I left then pulled back up to the window to get his meds.
The man can,t even look at me.
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My W is a vanisher. We have been separated nine months and I may have seen her 4 or 5 times with two of those occuring when she came by the house to get things. My feeling is vanishers have difficulty dealing with what they have done. My W for the most part has been very quiet, she threatens to file for D almost every time we talk, which is rare, but she gas yet to do it. She's now making an effort to reconnect with oldest son and his kids.
My son told me when he saw her in may, she dressed like a teenager, with a lot of flesh showing. When she came by the house, she was dressed conservately, like she normally dressed. I took that as a show of respect. I think vanishers still have a high level of respect and this is why they hide as much as possible. Just my two cents.
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Godspromises,
I have to disagree On the respect part as far as my MLC goes. He flaunts OW all over town in front of our kids and his family. But they are all diffrent but yet the same. My H has not dressed any different or changed much as far as I know. He just looks alot older and his hair has gotten grayer. But NO RESPECT!!!
And My H filed for D in January, Still dealing with that.
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Just another reminder why I continue to thank God that so much of what LBSs are dealing with, I have been spared. I have been amazed how he has held me up thru this. While not having as much MLC drama, I've had to deal with 8 months of job loss, loss of car and hanging on to our home. I've certainly learned what the grace of God means.
We all have had to grow in ways we never imagined. I just take one day at a time.
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Thanks everyone, i just wonder if there is a basic personality type that fits the vanisher, my h sent my daughter an e card which nearly a year after BD is still full of guilt and self pity. One of the other issues I've had with mine is that he just can't discuss anything at all, he still denies O/W (complicated for those who read my past thread) and can't initiate any discussion about feelings. We had one, which I think I handled ok, but since then nothing.
It's very frustratig, i know how hard it is for those who have to put up with almost daily drama, but I guess I feel on the other end of the spectrum and would like to have something to work with! In these cases is it better to try to keep contact going, even minimal, as NC doesn't make any difference? Just a thought......
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I review the contact types in the newsletter--that came out less than an hour ago...are you guys psychic or what? Interesting...and this thread was started before the newsletter came out...though I don't know if there is new information since the article started with Rosie's thread where I began to define the types.
The next issue reviews the Clinging Boomerang in depth. After that I had planned for the Limbo: The In-Betweens series--I referenced to Tinydancer...but this discussion could bring some insight into Off-and-Ons and Vanishers! Even most of the introductory article talks about Boomerangs.
Escape and avoidance are classic MLC behaviour, with this group it seems to be more extreme, do we know why?[/font][/size]
I don't think there is a specific type that is a Vanisher...there may be a few. But there are different reasons. For some it may be a positive attribute; they may be taking the space and though doing some MLC avoiding, they may be working through more issues than a Boomerang. I don't think that Vanisher's are more extreme in Escape and Avoidance, it is just how they manifest Escape and Avoidance and some may be less extreme.
Think of Liminality, the stage that follows Replay/Escape & Avoidance. During Liminality a person--in MLC or just a person who is going Liminal for a refresher--needs space. This space appears to be an escape and/or avoidance from the perspective of outsiders--anyone external.
Now the MLCer who is flaunting the alienator and other Replay behaviours is clearly not one of those--at least not from what we can tell. But with many Vanishers you don't get the information. They disappear and you may or may not hear about them through a grapevine. Often they simply seem angry and depressed all at once. Angry and belligerent, but perhaps only vocal about their anger if provoked...provocation could be anything from anyone...saying hello. But if left alone they may just walk around with their head down and shoulders hunched. A typical depressive would have dead and sad eyes, someone who seem both angry and depressed might have flashing eyes and a furrowed brow that reveals the anger. I don't know...those are just thoughts.
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Thanks RCR, I nearly fell off my chair when I saw your article!!
I think that for Standing purposes the biggest issue with the vanisher is simply the fear that it is easier perhaps for them to stay vanished. So that we will never have opportunity to rebuild, simply because the passage of time makes it harder and harder still for the MLC'er to reach out. If they don't touch and go or peek out they in turn won't be any the wiser about whether we are still there or not. So the whole process simply withers. That's my fear anyway.
I do wonder if there are any stories out there of MLC vanishers who did return, and how the LBS handled the infrequent interactions on the way.
Is there enough knowledge out there for us to say that they do follow a pattern but not quite the same as any other types of MLC. So perhaps it's quite usual for a Vanisher to vanish for months and even years, and then suddenly pop up again at their end point. (if that makes sense!) xx
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I do wonder if there are any stories out there of MLC vanishers who did return, and how the LBS handled the infrequent interactions on the way.
Is there enough knowledge out there for us to say that they do follow a pattern but not quite the same as any other types of MLC. So perhaps it's quite usual for a Vanisher to vanish for months and even years, and then suddenly pop up again at their end point.[/font][/size]
ImLin from the DB had a Vanisher (AKA Dropout) and they reconciled in 2006. I think Standers with Vanishers may give up sooner because they don't get the feedback--even though they also don't have to deal with the drama and spew also. I think they are not as active on boards and thus we may not see the results...and they are not as common. Her story is stickied at the top of DB's MLC forum, but for awhile I thought there was an older thread stickied with her story that may have had more of the story...but I could be wrong.
I think that for Standing purposes the biggest issue with the vanisher is simply the fear that it is easier perhaps for them to stay vanished. So that we will never have opportunity to rebuild, simply because the passage of time makes it harder and harder still for the MLC'er to reach out. If they don't touch and go or peek out they in turn won't be any the wiser about whether we are still there or not. So the whole process simply withers. That's my fear anyway.[/font][/size]
Thanks, your explanation of the feelings is helpful...something to add to the article...keep the ideas coming.
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HI Voyager,
Mine's a vanisher too. I still have hope he will be back, that hope gets stronger everyday as now that I am becoming detached. I view his vanishing as him protecting me from him. I believe that is respect. I try to keep a positive twist on all of this. I get strong insights that he will be back. I no longer worry "if" he is coming back nor do I think about "when" he is coming back, in my heart I strongly believes he is coming back. I think I am finally accepting the process. I enjoy being left out of his drama, I doesn't mean I don't miss him. I miss him dearly, but I also know that he is not being the man I fell in love with either.
I am learning not to take this personally because he is not having any contact with his son either. His son is his world. I have no clue what he is doing but in the rare times that I have passed him driving he always looks mad. I perfer not to be included in his madness. I would have stayed there if he had not gone NC. I'm glad he chose that route, it makes my life easier.
I reflect a lot on how it was last year at this time. He was with OW and throwing her in my face and I didn't set boundaries about that. My emotions were so off the charts I could barely function. Now I rarely have days that I get emotionally over this. I am experiencing my own transition as my body is going haywire (perimenopause). I have accepted that and now I chuckle over my body doing this. I have no control over this. I would love to talk to my MLC'er now just to compare notes. "Does your body do this, or have you experienced that" type questions.
I have been more worried about "when" he comes back. If I have truly made the changes that I think I have made, that I will respond rather than react. I have in my head and my heart forgiven him for what he has put me through. I did respond when he came back last December and we did a lot of talking about OW, his feelings, my feelings, etc calmly until he vanished again. Then I went ahead and let lose on him. That was our last conversation back in February. I have texted him once in May to let him know that he was in my prayers because it was the 5th anniversary of his son's death and I know how hard it is on him during that time. He texted me back and said it "had been a rough few days". I left it at that.
I did send him a Father's day card and have had no acknowledgement that he got it. I'm OK with that. We did have eye contact when we passed on the road and we both waved and smiled big, neither of us contacted each other after this but at least I know he's not mad at me. That was a little over a month ago. I have to just let him do what he needs to take care of himself. I have no clue if he has OW but I do know that he doesn't spend much time at his house, he's staying some place else. I have never seen with anyone. If he is there is nothing I can do anyways.
I have been using this time to resolve my own issues. I have changed in so many ways but my core is still the same. It's great that some of the doors from my past are closing. It's a freeing experience. My intuition is heightening, I'm experiencing new things, and now I am starting to respect myself which is something that I have not done in the past. I would let others take advantage of who I was and not stand up for myself. I am understanding the importance of boundaries. I'm not afraid to set them anymore. I set them with MLC'er and he has not spoken to me but I also know that I cannot and will not let him treat me with disrespect. I deserve more than that. But I also believe he does love me because of the foundation that we built and I have to trust that and that will is why I believe he will be back when he's ready.
Monday I had an insight about when he comes back. I have to not worry about having a need to trust him but instead I have to show him that he can trust me. I have to establish his trust in me before I can work on my trust in him. I know in my heart that I will trust him again but I have to make it safe for him first.
I am finally starting to find my happy place. I am learning to take care of me emotionally. I'm pretty excited, I am going to have a facial done for the first time, hopefully next Friday. I would have never really considered this but I am learning that I do not have to feel guilty about pampering myself. Matter of fact it will be healthy for me to start putting myself first. I am finally getting it but it has been a long, hard road but well worth the trip. If his crisis never happened I most likely still be the same person that I was. I am really starting to like me. I love it.
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Ll
Thankyou for your post, I found it really comforting as I'm not in the place you are yet, but I can see I might be one day.
I don't know if my mLC'er is acting out of respect as our sitch is complicated because of the work stuff, so there isn't respect i feel, I think with mine it's fear of facing up to his issues, he's done a lot of very bad things to me over the past 4 years, and I feel that it's his huge guilt that is governing his actions and from the card he sent to my D he still seems completely self obsessed and desperate still to justify his actions.
When we did meet last I was shocked at how bad he looked and how withdrawn his behaviour was. Perhaps with some vanishers it is simply that guilt and desperate avoidance of the effects of that. A friend of mine who is a therapist told me that the more extreme their justification, the more extreme their guilt and their reactions to you as the LBS...don't know what anyone else feels about that.
Enjoy your facial Ll, they are fab and they'll make you feel a million dollars!!xx
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Hi Voyager,
I'm not sure that mine is acting out of respect but that is the way I am chosing to look at it. When I saw mine driving down the road he looked terrible too he's very skninny. I also chose to believe that he does not contact me because he feels guilty for hurting me. That will be something that I will not speak of unless he asks me directly. I do not have to rub it in his face that he devastated me in the beginning, he already knows that so I don't feel I will have to remind him.
When he did come back for 2 1/2 months he would ask me if it bothered me when he would talk about other OW. I was suprised that it didn't as much as I thought it should have. I was given an opportunity to show him that I forgave him, I took it, and I hope that was enough to hold us together through all of this. I already know my stand and I know that I am in no hurry the longer this goes on. I am learning how to love because of this crisis. It feels really good to know I can love someone this deeply, I just hope it is him that will benefit from these changes also. If not at least I know that I will find someone deserving of my love as they will love me as deeply in return. For now I just continue on my own journey and I am OK with that. It feels as though every day I learn something new about me.
Hang in there my dear, we will all pull through this hopefully with marriages in tact but if not we will have made the changes necessary to get the love we want and deserve. The best part of all we will learn how to love ourselves. Hugs and Prayers.
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Hi everyone! My husband is a vanisher. I'm so grateful that you started this thread, Voyager. I was also thankful for your article RCR, and that you commented on this thread. Bomb drop for me was in May of 2007. H left the next month. There has always been very little communication, but it was more often the first two years. The last time I saw him was in March. He was so nice, although he would not look at me. Just at the ground. Since then I've talked on the phone with him once. He was very irritable, and couldn't get off the phone fast enough. I sent him a short Father's Day e-mail with no response, but other than a couple of one line e-mails about finances, I wouldn't even know that he is alive. My daughter hears from him occasionally, and she tells me that he is building onto the house that he bought with/for ow. He has been with her since before bombdrop but will not admit it. It's so strange though because he never mentions her to anyone. It's like she doesn't exist either. I don't know what to think about that. It has been easier to detach (though I have my moments.) It feels like he just keeps getting farther away. My daughter did tell me, that he was telling her, that he went to see a family home we had built when our children were school age. She asked him why he did that, but he didn't give her an answer. (Was he peaking out, or does it even mean anything? I don't know.) I also wonder if he is so detached that he has forgotten completely about me. It's difficult to have hope sometimes. :'( I would be interested to hear what you all think. Anyway, thank you for starting this. I guess it's nice to know that I'm not the only one experiencing this, but I sure wish that you all didn't have to go through it, as well. It's very hard! Keeping you all in my prayers. iHh
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Thanks IHh
You've hit the nail on he head when you wonder if they vanish so completely that they just disappear and you and all you represent positive and negative disappear to them.
I know RCR's article talks about not contacting, but I do wonder though, it is a big risk for LBS with Vanishers, Perhaps at first you have to sort out if they have actually vanished of just temporarily disappeared? When does one become the other, or is that too simplistic?
I understand that contacting might make them run further, but perhaps a different approach is needed? Like touch and goes for the LBS, not full on contact but an e mail or text every few weeks, not saying anything controversial but reassuring or generally sort of bland and inoffensive?
Like you my H has not admitted the O/W to anyone although it's an open secret. He sent a card to my D last week which made me wonder if he was peeking out, but everything is in a vacuum with vanishers, you don't have anything to compare it with as the last contact may have been weeks or months ago. I worry that it's easier for them to become stuck in the tunnel as there are no seeds that can be sown or positive interactions to have to reassure them.
Again RCR wondered if they were actually working through their stuff quicker than boomerangers of clingers, from the card my H sent to my D I can only say it doesn't seem like that.
It certainly can be viewed as positive that we don't see the daily drama, but the downside is that I would welcome any interaction. The danger, certainly for me as I'm relatively early on in the MLC process, is that the emotional investment in rare contacts mean that it's difficult not to feel vulnerable to disappointment. In some ways I dread the next contact because it may be the D or money talk, which would be hard to handle after not seeing him for a long time.
I wonder if I should volunteer to be a guinea pig and put different approaches in place to see what works for the good of future LBS with vanishers!!........for a substantial amount of danger money of course (lol) :o :o :o
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While the MLCer implements and controls the vanishing, it certainly works to our advantage, at least in my case. I'm pretty sure the daily drama would have broke my standing by now. In the first two months after bomb drop and separation, we were in constant contact and the drama was very high. I noticed after a few weeks, that my W needed my anger to push her to do the negative things she was doing. Once we went NC, the air, so to speak was out of her drive to divorce.
The next couple of months were complete silence from both of us. In march of this year, I stirred the pot, trying to access where we were. This was very unsuccessful and the following Monday she filed. On my darkest day, God was still present, as the D was filed incorrectly, meaning that as far as our state was concerned, she hadn't filed. At this point, I understood that she wouldn't do anything unless I gave her the motivation and I welcomed the NC.
Since that decision, she has threatened to file many times, but hasn't followed through. This week she has started trying to reconnect to our oldest son and his family.
While the vanishing was the most painful thing I've ever had to endure, my decision to embrace it has up to this point saved my marriage. I knew from the very beginning, I had to outlast this time of anger and confusion to get to a place where we could rebuild. During this time, I have been able to take a deep look at what I contributed to the success and failure of our marriage and what I could do to improve my part. I don't think I could have made the progress I've made without her vanishing and me welcoming it.
I guess I've learned that important rule, "it's all in your perspective"
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Thanks GP
That's a good perspective on it, that the contact, even very limited, simply fuels the fire and pushes them into negative action. Still can't help wondering if there are similarities in personality type that makes some MLCers more likely to vanish. Certainly I know mine avoided confrontation, and still is, he never talked about his feelings and was very secretive. I suppose if I'm being honest he is not a strong person. Does that ring any bells for anyone??
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My W avoids confrontations, very guarded with her feeling, lacked self confidence(I totally missed this, as she projects self confidence). She also hates to apologize for anything wrong she does wrong to anyone. I agree with you that there seems to be a personality type that vanishes. Maybe we can, through other contributions to this subject, we can unscientifically develop a profile type.
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Thanks GP,
I think it probably would be unscientific, but worth a shot! The next bit would be developing how to deal with the vanishing situation, and if/when they break cover, would it be the same as the other MLC types I wonder? :-\ :-\
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V
My H was the same in that he didn't talk about his feelings much and we rarely fought, BUT, when it came to work or something else, he was not at all afraid to confront when he felt wronged...and it if he didn't like what they were saying, it would almost always end up getting "loud"
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I don't know that this is advice, but it is input from my situation and my friend's situation.
He has not physically seen his ex-wife in nearly two years. They have communicated by e-mail or by phone, probably once every 3 months on average. About two months ago, she started pursuing my friend again (she is still married to other man). In her most recent e-mail, she indicated a good possibility that her marriage to other man is going to end in divorce and she has a desire to start reconnecting with my friend.
In my own situation, my wife also divorced me and is seeing another man. My ex-wife and I see each other briefly about once every two weeks or so. It's a little hard on me to see her that often, especially since she's in Replay right now. She is very friendly toward me, but is obviously in a "hurry" to get away from me when we do see one another. It would be easier on ME emotionally not to see her that often, but I do want to "pave the way".
My point is this......I wouldn't be overly concerned about losing contact for several weeks or more at a time if that's the way it's happening. My friend's situation has shown me that not being in regular contact is not something to be overly concerned about. Whether you are in regular contact or not, as this website says, MLC takes time.
My friend's ex-wife has done what we hear about so much. Started with e-mails asking about friends and family, then she started giving subtle hints that her "new life" wasn't going so well. And, most recently has actually mentioned the word "divorce" about her current situation.
The MLCer needs time.
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DGU
That helps a lot, I see what you're saying with the different sitches, perhaps an extra shot of nerve is needed to make sure you don't blink first...guess what I failed that test today. Only a one line very bland phone message, a sort of touch and go, perhaps I shouldn't experiment on myself!! Wish i'd read your post before i sent it. :o
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In my opinion, the fact that MLC takes time is one of, if not the, most important thing to keep in mind for the LBS. It ranks right up there with not showing anger toward the MLCer.
My friend's situation has shown me clearly that MLC does follow a process.....and it almost always passes, but it takes lots of time. My friend did a good job of detaching. He RARELY contacted her, and did not initiate any contact after she married the other man.
Over the past 3 months, SHE has been the one in pursuit (yes, while still married to OM, ...and no, he doesn't know she's thinking of divorce) I am reminded of Jim and Sally Conway's book "Women in Midlife Crisis" where it talks about a simplified 3 part process of MLC. In part 1, denial and anger are present and tension begins to build. Part 2 is the dramatic part, which includes all the "running away" things like OM/OW and possible divorce, and in part 3, he talks about a GRADUAL return very similar to their old values and beliefs.
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I've been thinking about you today V about all this I too seem to get antsy and want to see where he is in this process but I remind myself no matter what I do it will not change things in his world. I have to leave that up to him and have faith and belief that he will pull through this. I deeply care for this man and want happiness for him, even if it isn't with me.
My MLC'er lives less then a mile from me and it takes everything I have some days to not go sneak over to see if he's home or been home as he doesn't stay at his house much (past sneaking around). I found that every time I do that it sends me into a tailspin. It doesn't bother him because he doesn't know I came by. Before I do this anymore I ask myself what will it do to me or can I emotionally handle his rejection or his reactions? I usually say NO I don't want to deal with it.
Another thing I do when I get tempted is to start reading the articles again. This is such a good reminder that about this whole process. This all takes time and I go find something else to do, usually napping is good. I find I have more negative feelings or my own insecurities pop up when I'm tired. That is the joy in all this, I get to nap, gather my strength so to speak as this is not even close to being over. If he starts to reappear I will need strength to finish the journey.
Take care of yourself Voyager, take a nap, enjoy the solitude as this may not last either. Hugs
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Oh DGU, thankyou for posting! I really needed the encouragement, and insight you offered. It made a HUGE difference in my day!
Voyager, I forgot to mention that H also sent an apology to our youngest son. (Son named grandson after H but has had nothing to do with H since BD.) It was supposed to be an apology to our son but throughout the whole letter H BLAMED my son! I think that was the last straw for son. He threw the "apology" in the garbage. It was the strangest thing I'd ever heard. Things would be fine if it weren't for son. He's been there for son and H can't believe he won't be there for him. H would give son a chance to repair relationship. H would forgive and forget. It went on and on. ...it was beyond words. It was all about poor, little H, and how hurt H was. My son was laughing when he read it to me because it was so ridiculous. Oh, and I also wanted to remind you that I already was a guinea pig of sorts. Sent a Father's Day e-mail; no reply, and had to call him about a check he forgot to sign when he deposited it in the bank; he was not nice. I've learned my lesson...:-X Let us know how your H responds to your e-mail. My contact was over a month ago but I wish I had read Dgu's post first also. Oh well, we live and learn... I'm just grateful for the information and encouragement on this thread. Maybe RCR will dig up more information on vanishers. I need all I can get. ;) God Bless! iHh
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Thanks everyone,
It's so hard not to weaken!! And in some ways, because they're vanishers there is that feeling that if nothing else the odd message at least shows them you're still alive.
That's the fear, that you sort of get airbrushed out of their lives. With other types of MLC'ers, it's hard but at least you know they are thinking of you in some way, even though it's negative. With a mine I'm just not sure, which brings its own worries.
I did ask myself why I sent it. I don't expect a reply, I just wanted to let him know i was still here and I am thinking of him.
I wonder if with Vanishers they can tell themselves that we aren't, simply because they don't contact. Perhaps it makes it easier for them to make assumptions that we don't want them, even though it's they who've vanished. I guess I wanted let him know that there is a choice for him, even if he doesn't want to exercise that choice yet. :) :)
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I'm so glad that this thread was started... just like DGU and his friend my ex-wife is a vanish-er. The last time I actually saw her was during my children's Parent teacher meeting Last Sept 09. Since then the only contact is about the kids. Obviously being divorced I no longer can react on what she's doing with her social life. The "friend" that she is seeing right now is the OM. Her filing for the divorce quickly is also to avoid any accusations from our common friends and relatives that would view her actions as the cause of the breakdown of our marriage. Just like everyone here I was told that it was all my fault. We have lost our home to foreclosure along this MLC event. I am now at a state of peace in all of this... I can accept that whether we call it MLC or just plain old "her falling out of love" with me, as "it is what it is". I have to reach the point where I have to also start my healing process, you have to let it go and see what God's plan is for you. There will come a time when the tables will turn. MLCers seem to have a radar, they know if you are still the one in persuit of them. What we call in this site as "outlasting their MLC", I call it "living your life". Signs from God is very subtle and if you occupy your mind with too much worries about your partners actions/words you might not hear it (the key is to Trust God). And for those VANISHERs this is when you know tables are going to be turned: A time will come when the LBS will get stronger by themselves, so this time the MLCers have to race against that time. If you read DGU story about his friend in another thread here, it mentioned that his friend didn't know about MLC, his friend took his divorce at face value. No over analyzing, which resulted in him being detached. Look who's running after who now. What I want to know from DGU is, your friend obviously is aware that his ex-wife is married, which means his ex-wife is now committing adultery to her current husband, what does he think in all of this? How often do they communicate now that he knows he is being persued?
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ece711
You ask a good question regarding my friend's current contact with his ex-wife (who is still married to the OM). He and I have discussed this quite a bit and it has weighed HEAVILY on his mind.
He struggled from a moral and belief standpoint on what to do when she sent him an e-mail earlier in the summer. He struggled on deciding what to do bad enough that he didn't respond to it for about 6 weeks. He finally decided to respond with something VERY basic and short.....something like "I got your e-mail. Good to hear from you. Hope you are well."
She responded to his response almost immediately and said how happy she was that he responded. My friend figured after that, he probably wouldn't hear from her again for several months.....after all, that's how things had gone for two years.
She then sent yet another e-mail, and it asked questions about family and friends. My friend responded by answering the questions. He was.....and really still is.....struggling about the contact without her current husband knowing. He wasn't sure if he should just not respond to her e-mails anymore, or if he should tell her that he didn't feel right about it. Then....boom....the recent e-mail shows up where she discloses that things are not great and gives a hint that divorce may be a future possibility. He has not responded, but in her e-mail she said she would be back in touch.
My friend will be VERY cautious. He is one of the most patient people I have met.....and has been an inspiration to me in dealing with my MLC ex-spouse. He will NOT proceed with her until she is divorced (if she follows through) and he feels comfortable that she is emotionally and spiritually healthy enough to be in a relationship.
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Reading your post DGU and RCR's newletter... it seems the best way to handle a vanisher is to leave them alone? I had spoken with a coach a couple of times awhile back and both times she suggested reaching out in small ways whether it was to ask for help with a repair or invite to a family thing. NOw that H lives with OW, I am not sure that would be a good idea. H has basically gone dark on me, since the infamous "dog bowl incident" 4 weeks ago so I have been mirroring him and been totally dark too.
I do occassionally have to contact my H about the kids or our rental house stuff but am otherwise dark.
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Hi all,
In another thread RCR wondered about low and high energy types in relation to vanishers.
Feel a bit of a fraud on here at the moment as my MLCer popped out this week, but I guess by next month he'll have officially vanished again.
I'm not sure yet, but I think my vanisher is low energy, he's displayed a few high energy moments but by and large it's all been on "mute"
I do wonder if for some vanishers the disappearance is about maintaining a facade or perpetuating the bubble they're in. My vanisher hasn't had much contact with anyone either friends or family.
Perhaps it's because the longer they disappear from view the easier it is to not face reality?? And perhaps low energy types are more prone to secrecy?
Just throwing it out there for debate and hopefully help RCR too. xx
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I would like to fined out more about the vanisher MLCer that is flaunting OW everywhere. It seems most vanishers seem to lay low but not mine.
My H also avoided conflict with me, but wasn,t botherd by telling other people what he thought . He has maintained contact with his family as long as they except OW. But if they don,t except what he is doing it makes him angry and he lashes out. Our S24 and D22 doesn,t have contact with H anymore because they don,t want to be around OW. So bottom line with my vanisher if OW cant come then he want either.
And I wonder with some vanishers if it,s not a case of out of site out of mind kinda thing. If they dont see you maybe they will just completely forget you and it will ease their guilt. My H told my D22 he wanted to forget everything from his past and get rid of anything that reminded him of his past.
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I wonder with some vanishers if it,s not a case of out of site out of mind kinda thing. If they dont see you maybe they will just completely forget you and it will ease their guilt. My H told my D22 he wanted to forget everything from his past and get rid of anything that reminded him of his past.
Hurt01,
Let's just say for topic purposes that it is "out of sight out of mind kinda thing", my question is, "what can we do or better yet what will we do about it ?" As they mention here or in any other sites we have no control in their journey. Sometimes the Lord gives us a chance for us to discover ourselves too, use this time wisely. Every thing happens for a reason and if we allow ourselves to be consumed with every single thing we hear or see our spouse/ex/stbx then we might not hear what the Lord is trying to tell us because our mind is so busy being in this drama. Let go and watch what happens... leave it up to the Lord and he'll take care of the rest, you know he will not abandon you.
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Hi E711 and H01
I definitely have an h who is completely burying his head in the sand and is addicted to secrecy and control. My D said today that it's as if we are all toys, and that we all go to sleep when he does and wake up when he does, ready to assume our roles and be kept in that role by him.
I think for LBS with vanishers or any other type the process of detachment is essential, in any event. But getting to that point is the hardest part of the journey, H01.
You say he's a flaunting vanisher, so he is public with everyone else except you?
I think his wanting to erase the past etc is guilt, guilt and more guilt. it's impossible to do and he will know that somewhere. Maybe yours is more high energy than mine, he certainly seems to be making quite a splash with it all.
There's something about the approach of vanishers and I can't quite put my finger on it, but I suspect it is a reaction to guilt that fuels a sort of escape mechanism, why them and not other MLCers, I don't know and would love to find out.
Is it a lack of emotional maturity or insight that somehow isn't as well developed in them as in other spouses? Certainly some of the MLCers on this site seem to at least know they are confused and messed up, even though that doesn't make things any easier for the LBS, but there is acknowledgement by them on some level that they know there's a problem, even if they don't know what it is or are unable to recognise it fully.
With my H there is absolutely no acknowledgment of the problem, there is no sense of doubt or guilt, although he has started smoking again after 22 years!!
In any event vanishing or not h01, you need to look after yourself and get some space in your mind free from all the drama. You're number one priority now. Take care xxx
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Great Top and how do I get the emails?
My H is total a vanisher, no contact, dark, unless I start it. I do my best to remain dark/NC but sometimes I get the urge and text him. The outcome is never good, but it confirms that he still in replay and he's still monster. He shows off the OW to everyone including D. I believe he shows her off and pushes her on his family and D because he is trying to show to everyone (himself) that he is over me. They live together full time now. He has gone so far as to say that he has OW come with him to the times he's with his D so she know he is over me. When He refers of her to me, he doesn't call her his girlfriend, he calls her his friend or her even though they live together? I also view him a weak. I don't even know if he is strong enough to get out of replay and face the next stage and himself. He has never been very good with his emotions and feels, very passive aggression. Days would go by before I even found out he was mad at me, he use to stew about things and then they would make no sense when he finally break down and tell me what was wrong. In my case I long for contact even if its bad but deep down I'm glad I have very little and I know its better for me with NC, since all contact with him is bad in the end although I do sometimes enjoy being a bit** and throwing true darts. As we all have read there is nothing we can do or not do or have to do that will effect the outcome of their MLCs. Whether we are paving the way with actions/interactions or quietly within our hearts will equal out in the end.
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Does anyone know if the MLC feels more guilt , less guilt or does it stay the same as they move through the tunnel?
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A couple of comments.....on a couple of things......
hurt01....from what I understand, and perhaps part of what I'm seeing directly in my friend's situation is that there is possibly some guilt present the entire time of MLC, but it gets "vocalized" much more so at the end than anywhere else.
In regard to showing off the OM or OW, the answer is yes, it absolutely can help the MLCer to "show" they are over you. Two other thoughts on that. I mentioned this on another thread that my ex-wife said she has "already grieved" our marriage. She used this as the justification when she told me she was dating someone else and that if I heard from anyone that they were out in public together, it was true. My response was simple......I said if that makes you happy, I understand, but I am not done grieving our marriage and am not seeing anyone.......and I left it at that.
I continue to learn from my friend's situation that space is good. I also have learned NOT to be afraid if you don't hear from your MLCer very often. For more info on this, read the "Pursuer-Distancer" article in the articles section. As the LBS, we need to not be afraid to detach enough to become the distancer.
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Dontgiveup, Thank you for your input on this. The reason I ask about the guilt is because from what I hear my H is sick ALOT!!! He was sick alot before all of this but more so now. And it seems to be increasing, From what I hear he is off work and sick at least every other week. HB wrote on my thread that she thought the Lord was increasing his guilt which I very much beleive. I just wonderd as time goes on and the longer they are with OW if their guilt decreased or maybe increased.
As for pursueing , I haven,t even tried to contact H since January. He got angry when we were texting because I wouldn,t run right up to his atty office and sign D papers. I told him I would get my own atty , He said never text him again so I haven,t. I have read the articles. I guess you could say we are both distancers. I,ve read on here if you distance they will pursue, That has not happened in my case.
And space is good but leaves room for very little hope. I just pray the Lord is pursuing my H and working hard on him.
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Don't lose hope. Hope is always there.
In my opinion, you are doing just fine by not contacting your husband. It's only been about 6 or 7 months, which truly is not all that long in MLC time frame. And, like many MLC situations, even though you do not communicate with your husband, you still hear about him and he likely still hears about you. You are not distancing out of anger, you are giving him the space he requested.
Remember that as a general statement, men can take a little longer than women to work their way through MLC.
Keep up the prayer....the Lord is always at work....which is why there is always hope.
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I should have mentioned this. In my friend's situation, the basic time frame from when his ex-wife was the distancer until now, and now she is clearly the pursuer, has been just a little over two years.
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Hi DG,
That gives me hope. MLC'er hasn't had contact with me for 7 months and in the last 16 months minimal. He came back for 2 months last November and then within 8 hours completely vanished after telling me how perfect we were together. That's what keeps me hoping he will come back. I am not sure how long he has not had contact with his kids. Daughter is making fun of him for dating someone much younger then him so it must be the same OW as last year. He taunted me with her last summer. I put the boundaries up after this last disappearing act.
I do get tempted to text him but I do not. It won't do me any good. He is in for a suprise if he comes looking for me. I plan on moving sometime in October.
The last time I saw him driving he looked like crap and that is being kind. He didn't even look the same. I know I don't have to pressure him as his boss, mom and dad, and friends are all probably doing that. They refer to OW as 'craccker jack, the broken toy inside the box." I do not know if he flaunts her to them or not but I do know he's out there somewhere in LALA land. I pray every night for him to somehow find his sanity. All I know he's running hard and I am not trying to keep up, I'm exhausted without chasing him. I just miss him.
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LF that was great "cracker jack" I think I might borrow that one, my H ow's bio-polar with back problems, which prevents her from doing her whole job at work. I usually just refer to her as "sl**" which also fits.
Also I think that these mlcer's going out of their way to "show" you & everyone else they are over the lbs is because they don't believe it themselves.
And for guilt, they feel it and that one of the things they are running from, plus if you notice they surround themselves by people who don't or can't judge their bad behavior.
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Hi Voyager
My H is
also vanisher. I have been in NC since January this year. I have seen him on 2 occasions. I set the NC boundary as I was tired of him treating me so poorly when he was here. He moved out in May 09. Continued to come here when he felt like it, leave when he felt like it, not show when he felt like it. And he was spewing much in that time. It was so difficult, but I don't have to tell you that.
I was working hard on recovery program and I could not allow him to be dishonest with me...going to see OW and talk with her on phone while\ and after coming here to hang in garage to do projects.Which he thought he was going to do if he left me, continue to come here and work on winter projects...ahhh, no I don't think so.
He denies OW all this time and a week ago he left in note that he has been seeing her for a month. Mmmm---2 years is more like it. He denies her to friends and family so far. She has been parading him to her relatives however...for approval of "new guy." I do not think he parades her.
I know what you mean about feeling like they are going farther away. I think that it is because there is no interaction. A hole in ourlife. This is kinda strange, but something i realized one day. I have rearranged my living room umpteen times and something is just not looking right, feeling right. I finally realized it was my H missing from from the furniture---his presence.
Oh and we call the OW "Cupcake." It's her hair...kinda reminds me of cherry red whipped frosting. And she is sugary sweet.
And AS Mercury stated. my H also surrounds himself with people who don't know me and tell him what he wants to hear. He has gotten very thin and his coloring is off...like a green\gray tint to his skin.He has kidney and liver problems. But these "people" tell him he looks great! He keeps playing this same phrase over and over again like a broken record for the past 2 years.
But I have to believe that he can make it back to his family. He has done things that are just as hard as this...recovery and staying sober for 31 years. I think if he can do that, and they truly come out of this, then he should be able to find his way back home. Any thoughts on this out there? Aood topic to post Voyager.
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Sideways
I believe (and sometimes lose sight of) that their is always hope, we don't live in Dante's first level of He** (light but no hope). The hope lies within us, and we decided when to let it go.
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I just read RCR's article about the MLC contact types and it was nice to see Vanisher as a type. And then to find this thread is also comforting.
I find the vanishing difficult because I do "worry" that I'm not thought of. But, I think in a way the Vanisher vanishes so that they can ease their own guilt. It's their way of detaching and they probably think if we aren't around then they'll move on easier. I think in reality, if I truly believe in the relationship we had, then the thoughts will be there. I just need to trust that God is working his plan.
I broke the silence and wrote to my H today. A quick chat to put the ball in his court.
Me: I'd like to talk in person someday
H: ok
Me: but like, for real. not just me. i need you to engage. and i don't know when you'll be ready
Me: so you let me know
H: ok
Who knows. Maybe it'll fail miserably, but what do I have to lose at this point. He's gone. Papers are filed. Moving along. Nothing more to lose. I just want to hear what his heart has to say someday.
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I find the vanishing difficult because I do "worry" that I'm not thought of. But, I think in a way the Vanisher vanishes so that they can ease their own guilt. It's their way of detaching and they probably think if we aren't around then they'll move on easier.
NG I believe you are correct, the vanisher has vanished to try and releave some of his or her guilt. I also believe they are running much harder then the others. I wonder all the time if he thinks about me at all. If I had to guess, I'd say yes but he's doing everything he can to not too at least I hope so. But who knows, maybe out of sight out of mind. I know the few times mine pop up, all I felt was disappointment that he didn't seem anywhere closer to the end of replay stage. One other wise women on here stated that she think the vanisher are protecting us from theirselves, I like that idea. Whatever type you have is hard. I have mixed emotions on whether or not we have it a little easier, since monster isn't in our faces and we are living a full life without them, so we are already GALing but we don't have any practice with dealing with them or any opportunity to "paving the way" either. I use to worry that vanisher where more likely to never to come home, but there is no proof of that, at least none I have ever read. After time that question pails anyways and the more important one is how much longer do I want to wait.
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We shall see. Mine has been a vanisher I think from the start even though he did keep in touch with me daily but I found out that caused him great difficulty...so did my asking for NC cause him to vanish? I think he's just running and running and now he has the space to truly not have to deal with anyone but himself and his work....if he keeps burying himself in work he'll be able to forget me, our family and the life we once had.
I hold on to the idea expressed here and in other places that they often will come back given enough time. I'd love to see their face on the day that they "awaken" and fully comprehend what has happened.
I will share something here that may or may not sound very logical. I had an experience 17 years ago which I call an awakening (and that is how it is referred to in other places as well). For no reason that I can discern, I woke up one day and spent three days in absolute heaven (and no there were not any hallucinogens involved)Every sense was augmented, colors, sounds, scents..everything was beautiful and sparking and I knew that my life would never, ever be the same again. I've never recaptured that experience but I do "celebrate it" it every year around the time that it occurred and some of my "teachers" and others who have had similar experiences know exactly what I describe.
So, it is not impossible to believe that at some point a light goes on and their thought patterns are totally changed..forever. I hadn't thought about it in this way before..all I know is that the experience was the most intense and wonderful thing I have ever felt so....I pray for My Beloved and for all your spouses that they "awaken" in some way, at some time..who knows what will trigger it.
In some respects, it's like they are experiencing the opposite, a very dark, lifeless, cold world where they cannot attain any happiness or joy.
Sorry to take over her..would love to share with anyone else who has ever experienced something like this.
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Ninja Girl
Also read the article on the Pursuer and the Distancer. I remember there was one time last summer when I read the article on Pursuit and Distance. Since bomb drop, I had been the pursuer. My counselor even told me to cut back on contact with my wife. I didn't at the time.....it just didn't seem right. Well, one night after reading that article, I decided I was going to stop pursuing. My ex-wife is not pursuing me right now (that's probably for a much later time), but she is definitely the contact initiator.
One other piece of info that might be helpful is from my friend's situation. His ex-wife is in MLC....and married the other man....but she has told my friend quite a few times that she thinks about him all the time.....for whatever that's worth.
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DGU.
I've read so much on pursuit and distance. I was actually planning on asking my therapist tomorrow... "Are there some people that just *never* pursue!"... :)
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The Vanisher is very hard. My H has "disappeared" not only from me but from his Ds as well. Their R is so broken down that I don't know if it can ever be repaired. My D18 hates her dad and my D22 just doesn't care. I can count on one hand how many times he has contacted them since he left a little over 3 months ago. There is a stalemate going on right now. I believe my H thinks my Ds should contact him and they feel it is his responsibility to initiate the contact as he is their father and they are his children. I do encourage my Ds to not close the door but the window of opportunity is closing.
My H did call them both last night, neither would answer, and left a message that he hoped to see them at MIL's at Christmas. For now my girls and I are planning on staying home and spending the day together. It's nice that he wants to grace us with his presence after so much hurt and damage he has caused. Basically my Ds both said he's an idiot to think all will be forgiven. We shall see !!
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Hi
my His a semi vanisher - BD May 2009 left three days later - for weeks I called him and he sounded sad and i worried. then he became ecstatic and loved his city life and as his adorable charming and think shes got lot to answer for said to me when i called her to say how much I loved him and was in shock at his decision to leave ' don't call him dear hes very happy now and in fact the happiest he has been i his whole life' - as i said a wonderfully emphatic and sympathetic lady - NOT !!! a year later she tells me that she thinks hes having some sort of crisis - my reply 'you thin
anyway hes had many spells of NC approx 4 months is the longest!?'
but i started it .. if i called him he always answered immediately or asap if at work in a meeting etc and we met often for a drink or dinner but i always felt shattered when i left as it was too difficult for me - so I initiated NC and it helped me detach and he once said after the longest 4months that it had made him sad that I had not contacted him but .. (he never said what but was but he could have called me - he of course finds this hard to do) ?? any ideas welcome
but we have gone 3 or 4 weeks between T& G's - but is the same with the kids.
I think as a few on the forum do that hes in withdrawal as he has been different this time but who knows ??
My view is the vanisher had more time to think so may get through he crisis quicker but then slows down when the acceptance happends because the getting back home is for them the more difficult for them MY H is terrified of home ( came home i1 year ago and did not want to go - I had to virtually push him out the door)
so they all get there in the end just by different roads and have different obstacles ?
B xxx
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B,
My H is a VANISHER !! Not to just me but to our Ds as well. He is bound and determined that he is going to stay away from home even though his "new" life is falling down around him. He's still living in a friends apartment, is broke all the time and is off of work again for a work related injury and will have to have surgery again.
He is so stubborn but right now I wouldn't want him home because he is still blaming me for all of his unhappiness. He was injured last March and sat for 5 months by himself while I was working and I think he built a mountain out of a mole hill and I believe this is what brought his crisis to a head. Since he left he has been keeping himself busy with work but now since he will not be working again until probably the end of January or early Feburary he will have the time to think. But this time I won't be around for him to put the blame on. I am hoping that he will finally wake up to the fact that it is HIM and not Me. Only time will tell !!
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There hasn't been much written about a vanisher but then they are gone so who know what they think or feel. I know they are running as hard as they can, I also know that I don't believe any of them are happy, at least not for long, I believe they are hiding from us and themselves. I sometimes wonder, if he feels the same way I do, like when I am sad, I wounder if he is sad too. I bounce on this topic but wouldn't it make sense, since we lived so long with this person, and bonded so deeply that he's feel the same as me. Then I think, who cares, if he doesn't hurt or feels sad, so what, if he does good.
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Mercury,
I wonder about the same thing. My H & I were together for so long that as many long term marriage partners we complemented each other and would often finish each others sentences.
But with MLC and him being the COMPLETE opposite of what I was knew, I don't know where he is right now. I do know that he is running away from his problems and the distruction he has created not only to me but to our Ds as well.
Eventually he will have no choice but to face himself and maybe then he will see what a mess his "new" life is. Unlike many MLCers here my H left with nothing but his truck. No money, no place of his own & no family to fall back on. It's all so sad, but this was his choice and now he will have to face the consequences of these choices.
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JKM, in the end each one of these people will face the consequences of their actions. I have no doubt there. I know my FIL spent the rest of life miserable. He made his second wife life he** and his first wife died before he could complete the journey and she wouldn't have ever taken him back, she hated him, and he deserved that hatred. I only wish I'd understood and should have been there for her. My H is following in his fathers foot steps. These facts lessen the chance that mine will ever return, I've faced that already. I can only say I don't want who he is now anyways, because I don't honestly believe he's the man I married or a good man. I should have know this was coming, because of his father's actions, I stupidly though he was special, our love could conquer all. He told me a few times that he will always love me it just wasn't enough. He was right, it just wasn't enough, it isn't when you chose to run away and start a R with another.
As many of you know, we have been waiting for our 20th anniv. so I can maintain my medical after D. It feels like we are stuck, there is very limit contact, no interactions together at all, we are down to 3 1/2 months. I wounder if he will run out an file the D, or if he will not. I have no idea what he will do. I'm prepared either way. I feel like the D will free me and maybe move him forward inside the tunnel. He's made no improvement since BD which was 1 year 5 months ago, he coming up on his 1 year anniv with his $l()t, which he lives with full time. I've not see any positive movement, or anything positive at all. There just doesn't seem to be anything left of who I married.
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My H's family is having a hard time accepting this sitch or my H's actions. This is the first marrital seperation (and possible D) that the family has had to deal with. They are in denial but are all conflict avoiders. My H has 4 brothers and not one of them has confronted him. They all talk the big talk but don't walk the walk.
I actually got a Christmas card this weekend and it was addressed to
Mr & Mrs. JKM. I figured someone wasn't aware of our seperation. To my astonishment and disbelief it was from my H's older brother who is well aware ot the sitch. It really is mind boggling.
I am holding on to the hope that since my H has never had to experience a divorce of his parents (married 43 years until my FIL died) that he will one day realize the errors of his ways. I don't expect but I am hopeful.
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So I guess I toss out the question:
Is there anything that a wife of a vanisher can do?
Currently, I'm moving on with my life, thinking D might be good, staying NC to protect myself from more disappointment and monster or stupid replay man. Is that it am I missing anything?
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Is there anything that a wife of a vanisher can do?
I'm not sure there is a right answer. I had a talk with my therapist about how in a way I hold some hope/expectation that my H will break the silence and start manning up to some discussion. Even in regards to the logistics of the divorce...
But when I sat back and really thought about it... he's never been one to initiate conversation.
My therapist said sometimes when people are going through divorce, they start to hold expectations of their spouse that are things the spouse never did in the first place. So the same frustrations continue beyond the divorce.
So, I broke the silence the other day and just said that I needed to have closure for my own life and that I needed a face to face discussion. But, in order for it to be fruitful for me, I need him to engage and be truly present. I don't know when he'll be ready for that, so I told him to let me know when he feels he can have that discussion. At least now the ball is truly in his court and I'm not holding some unrealistic expectation that I never even told him about.
And... he goes back into his hole as vanisher... but at least I yelled into the hole what I needed. LOL. :)
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Good for you NinjaGirl. I've reach out enough to mine, over and over again and all he's done is slap my hand. I throw the ball over to him long ago and it just sits there, its probably deflated by now. Mine was quiet and not an initiator either, but when push came to shove he'd man up but it took him a while. He had enough gust to walk out on our marriage now he'll need to find them again and get the OW out of that house and face me, if he ever wants to come home that is.
I feel better inside if I think he'll be home one day, and worst inside when I think he never will. I know I will not take him back unless he chances back to the one who loved me. If I don't see the love, he can just stay away, it wouldn't be worth the pain of having 1/2 of him back and effort to try to fix the marriage if his heart wasn't in it. Sometimes I think the afford to fix this is way too big for me to even want to try. I feel he crossed the line and I should not ever want him back. He has crossed the line but somewhere deep I still hold on, I have to let go, I suppose it is one of the puppet strings. I've got to cut it, if it just hold still and stop dancing in the wind.
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Well, I have been lurking for a long time but sich is familiar I am replying. I believe my H is a vanisher. After BD last summer, he moved to the other side of the country and decided to find a new job. He originally said that he wants the children to remain in his life if they wanted it. Recently he said that he needs and wants them in his life. He calls them on occasion to stay in touch. That might be every few days. He doesn't respond unless I reach out to him. He says that I didn't pay enough attention to him. He alternates between sounding sad and angry at the same time. He hasn't seen the children since last summer which I feel is a VERY long time. He says he welcomes them to visit him but the OW with him - no way! He hasn't mentioned OW to friends or family. I think there is huge guilt there. Most mornings I think I am reliving Groundhogs Day - know what I mean?
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Hi Standing,
I was surprised to see my old thread bobbing about. Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry you're here but this place gives us the shelter from the storm that we all need.
I certainly do know what you mean about Groundhog days, and the secrecy of your h is very similar to mine in the early days.
All MLCers "run" in one form or another, even if they've not physically done so, they've run off in their heads.
Vanishers really have taken body and soul with them.
All MLC situations are hard, each has it's own unique qualities, the boomerang types are hard and it's tough for those LBSers dealing with that, sometimes on a daily basis.
Vanishers and off and oners are hard too but in a different way. Certainly for me it's hard to stand for an h shaped hole. ;) ;) ;)
It would be good to know more about your sitch if you feel up to telling us. I'm sure you've seen that there is a huge well of compassion, advice, support and love to draw on here.
You could start a thread of your own, but if you're not ready to do that then post on this one for a while. We will try to help you all we can.
Looking forward to getting to know you.
Much love. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Wondering if the LBS of any vanisher has had some contact from the vanishing MLCer.
My BD number 2 was 8/21/10 and while in France I had no contact. I came home and cleaned up papers and found things that I had to send him. Now haven´t heard boo since 3/24. He wanted his $ from some joint funds that went towards paying off something and the deal was that he remove his name from two deeds first. No sign of deed removal and all it requires is a notarized signature. So, I really don´t know what is up with H. He has no contact with anyone that I have contact with. His family has treated me as if I had died/disappeared off the face of the earth.
Willing to take any suggestions.
FTT
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I think this is a really important thread to continue for us group of LBS's of vanishers . I personally haven't posted on my own thread since early Feb cos of the complete lack of action ( my own thread is now on private part of the site just so I can secure it for "history" will start a new one here when I am ready) I feel comforted to know there are others in my position who yes lack the turmoil created by the clinging boomerangs but who also ( if like me ?) are struggling to understand whether their spouse has not just completely detached from them forever. I can see why my H would fit into this category as he has always been one with shame issues and worried about what people might think , so can identify with others who see that their spouse has completely disconnected from anyone who may judge them ...my H ignores texts from lifelong friends !
So in the absence of my own active thread I would be happy to share with others my own intermitent contact experiences ( if any !) and musings on the life of the vanisher here . FYI my H now lives 5 mins walk away from our home, kids initiate their own contact with him - a recent development after 3 months of H's lack of contact with them too. OW has never been spoken about since BD july 2010 so I have no idea and no esire to know ... trying to treat her like the disposable band-aid that is inevitably her role.
so fwiw my latest contact was last wkend after nc for 5 weeks my H returned my daughter home and I was at home at the time (probably not expected by him ) his communication consisted solely of 2 monster spews 1 about some work my father is doing on our house ( in H's absence and complete disregard for the state of our home) and 2 some paranoic monster spew about one of our closest friends attempt at contact with him hey ho how about "haven't seen you for a while hows things" ::)
look forward to hearing about your vanishers
FB
ps I think like other mlc types there is a range/spectrum of vanishers , some like XYZCF's who vanish to other continents , mine who is only 5 mins away but I know would have absolutely nc with me were it not for kids ( 15 and 17) somehow forcing him to maintain his connection to the family home by picking them up dropping them off etc
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Following Bliss,
I'm not sure if my situation with my ex would fall exactly in the vanisher category. He has recently been in contact with me but right after our divorce was final (Oct. 10) he stopped all contact with me right before Thanksgiving. I made several attempts via text messages but he completely ignored me. I left him alone but I did send him a Christmas card and had an order of fruit delivered to him. I got a couple of text messages thanking me for the card and fruit but he had to add, "my kindness truly amazed him". I told him I didn't understand that comment and he told me that it was because he compared me to how my friends (who works with him) treat him. He then more or less blamed me for how they treated him. I told him that I could not control other people. Okay, so past Christmas and nothing for the NewYear even though I tried to contact him. Then nothing until the end of February. He surprised me by "popping" out to my vehicle as I waited for my friends to go to lunch. Totally took me by surprised. He chatted like we were friends. Didn't need anything in particular just chatted. So, I let a week go by and sent him a text tellling him it was a nice surprise seeing him and chatting with him. He completely ignored it. No response. So, just last week he sent me a couple of emails. Mostly regarding business connected to our joint property. I ignored it as it didn't really require an answer from me. He later sent another email asking if he could call me at home. I sent him an answer (sure) and that was all. He ended up calling me in my office because he said I didn't answer his email and he wanted to know if he could call me. Okay. He called and if you go back to my post you will see I screwed up royally..........at least I thought so. I told him that I didn't appreciate how he treated me and he asked me what did I mean, so I told him that he had said he wanted to be friends but yet he ignores me. He said he treats me like an ex-wife and nothing more. He also told me that we could not ever get back together. I told him that a lot of people remarry or at least are civil and cordial to each other. I also pointed out the fact that people we know do things together still and he said only because they have children/grand children together (we don't). He said it's not a good idea for us. So, I said something about how difficult it was not having some contact to just talk once in a while and he admitted that it was difficult for him as well. I'm sorry this is such a long post. I just wanted to share my situation. He has been in touch with me through more emails again just a few days ago and again today. We have plans to go to the bank together tomorrow. He asked me if he could pick me up and take me with him. So, this is the most contact we have had since before Thanksgiving. I'm not sure if it means anything or not. I truly expect him to go back to no contact after tomorrow. We'll see.
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Hello all. My husband is also a vanisher. BD was in April ’10. Announced he wanted a divorce and left same day! How’s that for vanishing!? :-\ I was totally caught off guard. He did indeed file for divorce 2 months later, but there hasn’t been mention of D for the past 6 months. Lots of monster spew for the first few months, but this died down as I stopped talking about relationship. He has been very secretive about his new life, but when we see each other, he seems to genuinely enjoy our time together (perhaps just manipulating me). He did admit to OW in Nov ’10, but I haven’t asked about it since. Looking back to before BD, I see he was withdrawing, but didn’t communicate why. We never fought in our marriage, and silly me…I thought it was because we respected each other. Now I realize he just has an avoidant personality! Woe is me! I only see him once every 2 months or so. He’s coming next week to pick up some furniture, and as Voyager has said, because these meetings are so rare, how we handle them become so very important. I’m vacillating between either not being here at all or taking advantage of this rare opportunity and continuing to be the warm, friendly “lighthouse” I’ve tried to be since BD. If anyone has any advise, I'd love to hear it!
I actually initiated a partial settlement as I wanted to take advantage of good mortgage rates and I knew H very much needed his own space and place in order to heal. He has purchased his own condo an hour away, near his job. Today, for the first time, I received mail with his return address on it! I was shocked. Also today, he sent me an email about a bill, and ended with friendly talk about our son, actually fishing around to see if son is the "guest" I happened to mention I was receiving this weekend. I’m finding recently he over-explains things in emails, uses lots of smiley faces, like he either enjoys letting me know what’s going on in his life or is taking care of me (in explaining financial issues). Not sure what it is, but something seems to be changing. I feel he is starting to peek out of his tunnel every once and again.
Prior to MLC, he was such a good guy. I so pray that I will see this man again someday and that he is not lost to me forever.
It's so good to have the support this site provides, but to be able to "brainstorm" with spouses of vanishers is especially wonderful! :)
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Heart to Heart
Your husband actually sounds like an "off and oner", maybe even a boomeranger. Contact does not always have to be in person. Vanishers may be gone for many months on end....and you don't hear from them at all.....no calls, no e-mail, nothing.
You seem to be handling things well.....keep hanging in there!
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Mine's been gone 14 months with only 3 thank you texts during this time. I have seen him a few times driving down the road. Once he looked like death and the other 2 times he looked spaced out. I just leave him alone and continue on with my life. Some days it really stinks but most days I really enjoy the drama free days. I still believe he will be back and the best part when he does come back then I will know it's me he really wants but he has to decide that for himself there's nothing I can do about it but enjoy my life for waht it is and it can be pretty wonderful.
I'm heading into year number 3 of his crisis and the last 9 months have when I have seen major changes in myself. I am proud of who I am becoming. I'm excited to see what year number 3 has in store for me as number 2 was more about healing and personal changes. Maybe number 3 is just about living life. I am finding my purpose or my own journey. I know that when he does come back I will have made him proud too with all my changes. I very rarely question whether or not he will come back anymore. I already have been told the answer. Today was one of those days that I missed him dearly but was blessed with a letter from my son who is in boot camp and it's been 7 weeks since I've heard from him.
When I'm down I just gives thanks for the simpliest things in life and it changes my attitude in a matter fo minutes. Gratitude is a wonderful healing tool.
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I am 18 months in with a vanisher. I have found that it is best to just leave him alone. Every-time he pop up or I reach out to him, I have been disappointed.
forthetrees, if you have to contact him, do it straight to the point, nothing more.
loveisntweakness, As for knowing, I'm in the same boat, I don't know. You have to fill the emptiness and live life as if.
Hugs to all of you, it is hard to have a vanisher and keep some form of faith. I always feel like I am waiting, and I am for myself to let go, move on and heal, and of course the D papers.
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Hello everyone. Not posted for a while. Have been taking a break from MLC world to continue to focus on me and my healing and also because my H is a vanisher so there is limited contact anyway.
I am coming up for my first anniversary of BD - 18th April 2010. H left and within a couple of weeks moved in with OW where he has remained ever since.
I am not surprised that my H is a vanisher. He is doing what he has always done - just burying his head in the sand and hoping that it will all just go away. He is running and avoiding, which is typical MLC, but also very typical him.
I wonder if Vanishers are of a certain type. My H was someone who avoided conflict at all costs and found it very hard to show his emotions or to communicate how he felt. He just didn't know how.
A theory on why they vanish from some earlier posts suggested that it is shame and guilt that keeps them invisible, but who knows?
I have had some contact with my H throughout the last year, but very sporadic. When he left in April 2010, I had a breakdown, so didn't see him between April and June. I initiated contact in July, and saw him a few times between July and September. I then found the strength to go NC which I did between end September and beginning of November.
In November, I once again made contact and we met a couple of times and it was during one of these meetings that he asked if he could come home. I agreed. He was home for 4 weeks and then left again to go back to OW (which I was kind of expecting anyway).
Again, no contact betwen us from the beginning of December until I made contact a couple of weeks ago. I met him, but it was obvious from the start, that he had not even begun to face up to what he has done, so still deep in Replay. He still has no idea that this is about him.
He was very cold and distant and looked really uncomfortable being with me. He just can't bear to be with me. I presume it is guilt. It was obvious that he no longer considers me part of his life. He has also had minimal contact with his son, only seeing him 3 times in the last year.
Thankfully, I am in such a good place now that I know I won't ever make contact with him again, unless there is something to discuss about our son. I will never pursue him again and the good news is, that I really don't want to.
I do believe that having a Vanisher has helped my healing process as I have not been caught up in his MLC behaviours. I have been able to keep the focus on me and my life. I am now at a stage where I don't really care about what happens to him. Whatever he has done, he has done to himself and he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions and behaviours. Once I grasped this, I felt very empowered, because that was when I really did 'let go of the rope' and realised that you have no control over anything - only you - just leave them to it. Nothing you do will change anything. They have to go through their MLC journey on their own.
I know that I am moving forward and leaving him behind now. If anything changes in my situation, I promise to post, but probably like most LBS's, I can't see a time when my H will look within himself for answers. He has only been in replay for a year and we all know that MLC takes time (which I totally get now).
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So, is there a common theme with Vanishers (why do they deserve a capital V anyway?)?
Please check the descriptors that apply to your H or W.
_____ Conflict avoider to an excessive degree
_____ Difficulty expressing a range of emotions (not just anger)
_____ Relatively small circle of same gender friends
I´m also curious; my H works in his own office, can shut the door and has a lot of control over how much interaction he has with people during the day. I on the other hand teach and interact with 70-80 people a day.
Thanks,
FTT
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I don't know if Journey to Self will read this or not, but I just HAD to reply.
Reading that post was like I'd written it myself.....IT IS MY H!!!!! From being emotionally retarded forever to not communicating to burying his head in the sand...all my H.
Again, no contact betwen us from the beginning of December until I made contact a couple of weeks ago. I met him, but it was obvious from the start, that he had not even begun to face up to what he has done, so still deep in Replay. He still has no idea that this is about him.
He was very cold and distant and looked really uncomfortable being with me. He just can't bear to be with me. I presume it is guilt. It was obvious that he no longer considers me part of his life. He has also had minimal contact with his son, only seeing him 3 times in the last year.
Thankfully, I am in such a good place now that I know I won't ever make contact with him again,
The above is so very true too, unbelievable.... I think sometimes that's the thing I find the hardest to bare that I might never see my H again, after loving and being with him for 30 years.....
I do believe that having a Vanisher has helped my healing process as I have not been caught up in his MLC behaviours. I have been able to keep the focus on me and my life. I am now at a stage where I don't really care about what happens to him. Whatever he has done, he has done to himself and he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions and behaviours. Once I grasped this, I felt very empowered, because that was when I really did 'let go of the rope' and realised that you have no control over anything - only you - just leave them to it. Nothing you do will change anything. They have to go through their MLC journey on their own.
Again I so Want to be above to do the above........ I'm tired mentally of giving him head space - how can I find out who I am, until I start trying to figure out who H is????
Love Fox xxxx
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In hindsight i should have called this thread vanishers and off and oners, as it seems to be part of the spectrum, with the completely disappeared at one end and the call in sometimes on the other. Some can start off as vanishers and then change and some can be boomerangs and then disappear. But for some it's a pattern that changes slightly.
I'm not sure if there is a common theme FTT perhaps there is, certainly mine fitted all of your three points. I have started to really heal now, but to be honest until now i couldn't honestly say having a v type helped me to heal faster. i guess i'll never know as i never experienced the other kind. But certainly it means less drama.
I think for my own experience i found it made me look at myself so much more, after all there was nothing else to look at or distract me, so that has been really beneficial.
Downside is that i was guilty of creating my own drama sometimes in the early days and in hindsight it was far better just to have not contacted.
When contact did take place it was laden with feeling on my side and because it was sporadic or by e mail it was difficult to judge how to be. Or it was hard not to get emotional or teary.
I also was reading his e mails, even the friday ones, through my own filter of emotions. So i reacted to how they made me feel, rather than reading them through his eyes so to speak and understanding what was actually been said.
They didn't say what i wanted them to say so i got upset by them and reacted rather than responded a lot of the time.
So i was perpetually disappointed, but really only had myself to blame for that.
It just occurs to me that in some ways it could be harder to truly detach from a v type. As you're sort of frozen in time as far as understanding your spouse or seeing the behaviours and there was for me for a while that wondering if he could just simply turn up as i didn't know where he was in his journey.
Maybe on a day to day level it is easier of course, but the ability to fully let go?? I've been able to do that finally but it took a lot to get there. Just musing on that one. :) :) :)
Fox
.. I'm tired mentally of giving him head space - how can I find out who I am, until I start trying to figure out who H is????
All i can say is that imho until you are able to put him out of your headspace you can't start to look at yourself. Trying to figure your h out is like trying to catch a blob of mercury, you can't do it.
Only he can, trying to figure him out is almost like trying to fix it. I did a lot of that. Like looking for the magic key to unlock the cabinet. Then once i'd figured it out I could say the right words and phrases to bring him home.
It's so necessary to see yourself as an entirely seperate and individual entity now. You are you, alone. Whatever happens in the future you will always be that.
So don't think about your h's stuff Fox. Just concentrate on your stuff, what you need to think about in order to grow and learn from the experience.
If/when he returns it will not be the same, he will have changed, but more importantly so will you. The past cannot be recreated so you have an opportunity to create something new from the ashes. I can only say that for me self reflection has been key to starting to build a new life.
One of the biggest gifts from looking at yourself will be an even bigger sense of independance and self reliance. And whatever is to come they are fantastic tools to start to use. :) :) :)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Thank you Voyager, this is a fascinating threat.....I understand more now about vanishing.....
The only thing I can add is that I doubt H will come back :-/ even if he finishes with this present OW - I think he will move on to another....the trouble with H is, full of pride, never used to say sorry before, so I doubt he'll start now.
Since BD he hung around for a few weeks before running off in his car and then coming back for a day or two, etc., etc., over a period of time between the end of September and November 6 - the last time I saw him :(
At the beginning of December after not seeing him & H not even trying to contact me in any way for 4 weeks to see if I was alive or dead through one of the hardest coldest winters we've had - I contacted him by text. He replied in the most bizarre email I've yet to read - I felt like an aged aunt or old friend he'd lost touch with. There was no emotion at all just him warning me not to "raise my expectations" etc and that he would come back to our hometown soon......I was so angry I rang him and as I knew nothing at all about MLC I probably said the worst thing I could! Amongst lots of reasoning with him, crying etc., I told H he had to make a choice - OW and her family or me and our Son!!!! I couldn't understand how any woman! could compete with me when we'd been married for 28 years, he has a wonderful son and he's only known this Tart for 4 months...the way I saw it - what other choice was there???? Wake up and smell the coffee ::)
I thought that by threatening him it would frighten him that I meant business and wasn't going to wait around any longer...... all he could say muttering under his breath was "oh I can't make that choice" etc., etc., I sent him a text just after the conversation saying "straight choice but yours" & then suddenly out of the blue 2 days later he sent me a text that said,
"the choice to come back gets harder which each day that passes, coz the thought that hate of me by everyone we ever knew, grows with each day that passes. It seems easier (cowardly maybe) not to face anyone, maybe they'll forget I existed"
I couldn't believe it!!!! after everything he'd done to ME he was thinking all about himself and our
fiends! not about me and our Son! He wouldn't pick up the phone and only text me 2 hours later - in response to a text I sent "so are you ending our marriage by text" he came straight back and said
"I'm not using a text to end anything, sorry I didn't intend you to think that, I know you've always loved me and never closed the door, I wasn't referring to you hating or forgetting me - I meant our friends. The future I come back to scares me as much as a future away and I need to find some courage, but also feel that I need to decide this on my own."
I couldn't believe it.....after everything he'd put me through, the lies, deceit, the affair with OW and he seemed to care more about our friends than me!!!! When I've spoken to mutual friends who work with him apparently he says things like "is everyone talking about me?" I don't get it.....the two most important people in his life me and his Son seem to have vanished in his mind completely. I've stopped speaking to our mutual friend as she tells me things that just upset me e.g. his movements etc. So NC for me ihas, in some ways, been inflicated on me....I just don't think he will every be man enough or find enough courage to admit he made a dreadful mistake with OW and come and say sorry....
It appears as he said to me in our last conversation in December that "he has made his choice".....
Hugs Fox xx
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Hey Fox
our Mlcers emotionally "divorce " us during this process , thats why your H will have expressed more concern for the opinions of friends at this point, we just dont count. Thats also why we will be the last person they reconnect with , maybe starting by reconnecting (if they ever do)with friends, family an finally us.
Take Care
FB
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Foxberry
The thing is, the way the MLCer feels now is likely NOT the way they will feel later.....perhaps much later. That's the MLC process. There are a lot of LBS that initially think their MLCer won't change their mind. It's not so much about them changing their mind as it is allowing the emotional process that is MLC to take it's course.
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Hi, I wonder a couple of things:
1) Guilt - is there more guilt with a vanisher? And thus when they run, they further the distance between themselves and their family.
2) Contemplative - I was always the one in the family that lived in their head (what ifs, if then this happens next, consuming books for knowledge and guideness, etc.) and now it seems to be his turn. Is he taking advantage of the distance to squirrel himself away to work on his issues?
3) OW is histronic - divorcee skank preyed on him doing the "poor me, I have a terrible boyfriend
routine" enough that my husband helped her break things off with him and reeled him in. Rescue the fair maiden. I used to be his fair maiden!
4) Noticed movement toward reconnecting with children by cell, reaching slowly toward but now more regularly w/ his siblings (which is interesting b/c I was the one that stayed in touch with them in the past).
What is the chances/percentages that he will come home or want to reconnect with me and ask for our family to move to the state he is living in now? To reconnect and to be w/ his children full-time?
Can anyone tell me if they've ever reconnected with a vanisher? Are the chances less than with spouses that "touch and go" more frequently.
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OK just to clarify something.
I WAS a vanisher ok. When I bolted from H I disappeared from him except with girls and if courts hadn't ordered that....
My personality was full on. I would fight and get into fights I was not conflict avoidant at all. I was in your face till this was sorted.
My emotions were there. I was emotionally immature though well that's what i had been told so I spose it's true. i was volatile and expressed great joy or great hurt. my emotions were maybe not under control.
And friends well my friends when I had them were actually mostly the opposite sex. Had no time for the b!tc#y cliques that seemed to exist. When I BD'd Dearheart I had hardly any friends being unable to find things in common with people. Don't get me wrong I had friends but I wasn't able to talk to them about how I felt. I felt I was going crazy and wouldlose everything I loved. It was ironic as in not seeking them out was the one thing that had me almost lose everything and in the long run was one of the reasons that had Dearheart BD me.
So I don't know whether those signs really fit.
I was a vanisher total. Dearheart had no clue that i wanted to reconcile until a year later I approached him.
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Odds are my vanisher will be back once he's done doing whatever he's doing. I do not have any reason to stand because I'm not married and have only been with him for 4 years and almost 3 of those years have been MLC. What I do know is that there is a connection like no other between us and even 2 days before he vanished he said he was glad we were back together because he thought we were perfect for each other. I feel the same, that's why I stand.
I'm glad I decided to stand because I have been giving a gift and that is "the gift of self". I honestly believe that I wouldn't have changed if I never met him and fell so deeply in love with him. Our connection is great, just our timing was off. I also believe we were brought together so we could show each other what true love felt like. I no longer take it personally I still have my days full of doubt just like everyone else but then I remember everything we shared together and I remain hopeful that he will come home based on those wonderful memories.
It may take him a long time to come home because once he wakes up he will punish himself for doing this to me. He will feel he doesn't deserve me as I am not like the other women he finds. They are all cheaters and beaters and he is a rescuer by nature. He was never selfish toward me or anyone else in his life. He was always giving of himself. He was a true gentleman in every essence of the word. He loved his kids immensely and he walked away from them.
I love the man and I get the opportunity to understand what it means to genuinely love someone flaws and all. I keep reminding myself how I loved my daughter when she was at her worst during the teenage years, I never knew if she was going to live or die during that period. Her drinking, drugs, rebeling and whatever else you can think of she did and I managed to still love her even after all the hell she put me through. I have to look at this as the same type of deal. It's something he has to figure out on his own with my loving support for the man that I knew not his behavior. I love that core man and if HB, RCR, and Stayed all say there husband and marriage became even better I will wait for sure because I have had the most wonderful time with him before all this.
I can see this taking place in others but what is interesting is that I know what it is and I can see why others start to hit crisis levels. The constant being kicked in the face after they are already down. Plus I'm seeing it in both men and women and now I can analyze it from an outsiders perspective instead of being emotionally tied to the person. I can watch their journey.
Sure there are still times that I wonder what he's doing and want to snoop but I do not because it doesn't do me any good. I want to interfere to find out how he's doing but I don't because it won't do any good. I just have to have faith that this will all resolve itself and in the end he will come back and we will have a better relationship even though I do not believe it could have gotten any better but time will tell on that. I remain on my own journey and feel blessed to discover who I am.
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Hi Everyone...
Haven't seen my H since February 23 and last time we spoke was a disagreement on the phone about him taking our tax refund. Very hurt and aggravated with him. H was very nasty when we spoke saying we could be divorced in 5 minutes because we don't have a house or kids together. I asked if he committed adultery he said no so I told him we have to be separated for one year before we can get divorced. I asked him if that is what he wants and he said he doesn't know. I told him to think about and let me know. This isn't what I want and I told him just that many times. I wish I could call or see him but I am so afraid at what his response will be . I did get a text from him a few weeks ago saying he put part of the tax refund money in our joint account -I replied OK thanks. One more text came a few days later stating that he had transferred the rest of the refund into our account but I just didn't respond to him. What am I supposed to say "thank you for giving me my half of our tax refund that you were lying about and trying to keep for yourself"? He already has all the good stuff from our apartment and I don't know where he lives because he lied about that too. H told me I need to work on my trust and jealousy issues -which I am seeing a therapist for -but what is he doing to fix his issues and rebuild our marriage ? The way I see it is he is doing absolutely nothing but having a good time drinking and hanging out with his friends. So much for his comment " I hope we work everything outbid if it doesn't I won't kill myself " Really shows me how much I mean to him," Kept telling me I want it too much and was trying too hard BS
'. Any advice on how to handle/cope with this vanishing H will be so appreciated. I spent my day sleeping feel like I am sliding back in to the deep depression I had when H first left January 17 2011.
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good4you
Detach and leave him alone, I know how it feels to want to contact him but it best to leave him alone to do whatever he wants. There is no easy advise on how to deal with any type of mlcer just work on yourself and as OP says this is your time, do what you want, read this site and get out of bed and do some GAL work, you will feel better.
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G4Y,
It's still very early days for you. You need to be kind and patient with yourself and understand that the change you will see in yourself will not happen overnight but it will happen as long as you are open to the process and do the hard work. It's been seven months since BD and I am no longer the same person I once was. I am strong and confident and really don't give a rats a** if my H gets mad at me or not. What more could I lose ? He's still gone and still in replay. I do think and wonder what my H is doing but not like before, not 24/7. Now it's just fleeting moments or if I see or hear something that reminds me of him or us. I am living seperately from my H in everyway, physically as well as financially. I think if I was still dependent on him I would not be where I am today. Detachment is the key to surviving MLC. Once you achieve true detachment the feeling of contacting your H will diminish. This is all very tough stuff and not for the faint of heart. Keep the faith and "just keep moving" !!
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good4you
I would recommend you read the blog about separation. Just click on the blog link and on the right hand side of the page you will see past blog topics. Click on the one about separation.....and read the comments at the end of the article. RCR provides some input about Vanishers (most MLCers are not Vanishers) and there is a link about that you can click on as well.
You are early on in this, which was certainly the hardest part for me. Read as much as you can....it will help you understand, accept, and cope.
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Hi everyone,
I may be wrong, who knows, but I do believe given the situation, that I am married to a MLCer Vanisher.....BD was 14 September - despite just destroying my life and in total shock - my H allowed me to go away on my own to meet our friends from USA who had come to England...it took him 2 days to even text me to find out if I was alive or dead. during that dreadful week he came to where we were all staying, "hid" away from our friends, couldn't face them with what he'd done - to tell me his "woe is me story" not interested really in what he'd done to me and the affect his awful lying, cheating, deceit and betrayal had done to our 28 year marriage and would I like to hear OW's story? You can imagine how I reacted to that one!
We eventually came back to our home - the dreadful arguments ensued - with me in total disbelief that he would swap me! for someone else...you see I NEVER saw this coming...I thought he was my best friend, confidante and Husband - I knew he'd worked away a lot for a few years, but never once suspected he was just waiting for the moment when someone would come along, give him the adoration and attention I so obviously wasn't (lol) and ditch me for some twice divorced woman, who has no morals and her own baggage.....but he was running away from our own debt, his"boring" life as he saw it, not achieved what he thought he should have, his successful son that he'd paid to have privately educated and I was the fall-out....goodbye - I'm swapping you in for a fresh start.....I still can't take it all in....
H came and went between her and me from 22 September until the final time on November 6 - literally running off in his car to OW - coming back home - expecting me to allow him to stay in our home and still see this B..ch that was the last time I've seen him so it's exactly 5 months today....very, very sad....I have no idea where he is or where he's living...I know more or less where he is, 300 miles away in the south of England - probably with OW, but not sure...he has no spare money to rent anywhere and no friends "down there" so I assume he is living with OW and should really STOP kidding myself he's not....Since November 6 he has sent me 1 email, a few texts and I have rung him 3 times.....the last time being when I found out he'd invited this TART to stay at the hotel where his Company was holding their Xmas party! Idiot!!! it did not go down well with his Company at all as I found out from a mutual work colleague of his and mine.... I was told he'd been told to "have a week off" sort himself out or else..... so I called him to offer support and try and get him to see what he was doing to his life, me and his S - not interested....H is "happy" and had "made his choice" so I have NC ever since.....
It has been so very, very hard on both me and our Son, who has not spoken to his Father since October??? What kind of a Father ignores his Son? nothing at Christmas or New Year...H's Birthday came and went in March and neither of us acknowleged it...
H's mail is still coming to our home...he's left some clothes, belongings and an office set up with his company's equipement still in it!!!!! But NC at all....I don't know whether I'm coming or going and it's driving me mad.....it's my Son's birthday this weekend and we shall see if this 'Father' remembers to send his Son a card??? Will he? I doubt it, he didn't even text him at Christmas. It's all about HIM and his happiness... To lose the love of your Son I cannot imagine, but that's what H has done...
So I'm sure if there is a Vanisher then I'm married to it? I was today told that H also has what is termed as an Avoidant Personality, i.e. he will do anything to avoid conflict, pain and facing up to what he has done.... hence why he has managed to 'ignore' me, his Son and literally his past life for the past 6 months.... where I work they actually class this as a Pesonality Disorder.... :(
That maybe so....doesn't make the pain and deep sadness any easier to bare....
Fox xxx
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Foxberry
Well, welcome to the LBS group with vanishers. Mine was diagnosed with PTS disorder but I think personality disorder fits most MLCers. They all appear to have mastered avoidance and many are passive aggressive. I can feel your angry through your writing, work on you and detach, there is nothing that you can do that will fix your marriage or his relationship with your son. All you can do is hug your son and tell him it will be alright because in the end it will be. What ever they do or don't do is their problem, not yours.
Hugs
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Hi Mercury,
Thank you - I know you're right, but how do you just switch off a lightswitch of 28 years of love and devotion??? I so wish I could....H was MY life....I only wish I'd seen the signs, which clearly there MUST have been, I could bite my tongue off thinking of all the silly, niggling, picky things I used to do and say...times I didn't tell him how much I loved him, let silly things annoy me and generally - probably took him "for granted" ... but he never talked to me about anything, how can you know there's something wrong unless someone talks to you?
So very very sad.....just at the time of our lives when I thought we knew everything there was to know about each other...and it turns out I didn't know him AT ALL!!!! :( I suppose that's what hurts so very much...for just HOW long what he detaching from me, looking for an escape route or worse of all for me to imagine that he has done this before. I realise now how easy I was to deceive..... :-\
Fox xxx
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Fox
Not sure if the MLC'er is planning and plotting exactly. I cannot really wrap my head around all of this yet. I know my H was complaining about how hard marriage is, getting old and fat, losing his hair, money troubles etc. Well first of all I NEVER said anything about his weight or hair loss- always told him I loved him just as he was. Guess it isn't enought to have the love and adoration of your wife though :( As to money troubles, H spent more than half of his income ( I don't even know exactly how much his paychecks were for) for work expenses and just on things he wanted. All the while I am shopping at thrift stores for Ann Taylor and Banana Republic clothes so we can save money for a house :o Then H goes and leases a 2011 BMW for $1200 per month which was more than our rent on our apt $ 998 . Yeah money was tight for me and us but not for anything H wanted-sucks really .
Oh and anytime I tried to talk about what was bothering him he would get mad and shut down even more. No win situation for me. Now H is gone and looks happy -must be nice for him >:( While I look anorexic because depression does wonders for weight loss- better than the flat belly diet.
I am very sorry that your son is being hurt like this. The truly sad part is I bet at one time your H was a great father.
Just remembered asking my H where my H -that I love and married- was at . He answered that H was on vacation and didn't know when he was coming back. I told him the H I married needs to get back asap because this new H wasn't my H. It sounds crazy but you can probably relate to them being like the complete opposite of the men we married..
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Foxberry
Time, a lot of time and a great deal of patience and love for yourself. Plus this site, has help me in so many ways I couldn't even list them all. I'm not all there yet, but take one day at a time. I doubt there was any signs, I rack my brain and can't only come up with a few. What you did or didn't do in the past did not cause this. You will learn that it really is all about their problems and all about them trying to avoid themselves. Don't blame yourself, he ran away, you didn't, he broke the marriage, you didn't. I though my life was perfect, we were just going to coast into retirement, but instead we hit a solid brick wall. I know it is very hard and it is also very hard to detach and GAL, but it is the only way.
Best Wishes
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Oh and anytime I tried to talk about what was bothering him he would get mad and shut down even more. No win situation for me. Now H is gone and looks happy -must be nice for him >:( While I look anorexic because depression does wonders for weight loss- better than the flat belly diet.
Goodforyou - hi - how very very true!!!! That's EXACTLY what happened with me too! every weekend I would say "what's the matter? You're very quiet?" He'd say "Nothing Darling" but I could feel there was something wrong....when I pressed him then just as you say he would shut down, or march off upstairs etc., etc., Yes...the ONLY good thing to happen to me since all this appauling thing happened is I've lost 60lbs! and NEVER looked better in my life! Just a shame he's not here to see me and is, instead, with a short, fat, unattractive, twice divorced woman with debt of her own, 2 grown up kids STILL at home and no family and friends now of his own - living over 300 miles away from where he's lived and known for 54 years.....
I am very sorry that your son is being hurt like this. The truly sad part is I bet at one time your H was a great father. Just remembered asking my H where my H -that I love and married- was at . He answered that H was on vacation and didn't know when he was coming back. I told him the H I married needs to get back asap because this new H wasn't my H. It sounds crazy but you can probably relate to them being like the complete opposite of the men we married.]
Yes when my S was younger there wasn't a single thing H wouldn't do for him, pay for, take him everywhere etc., etc., now? H hasn't spoken to him since October and because I told H NOT to send either me or his Son a Christmas card, as we wanted nothing from him, he did exactly that! he didn't call, text, nothing BIG FAT ZERO!!! If he'd ever told me NOT to send my Son a card I would have completely ignored and gone ahead anyway.....what on earth is going on in his head...has this OW's family just taken over completely in 3 short months and we now don't exist anymore.... He has NO other family other than me and his Son....maybe he doesn't want us any more...
Fox xxx
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Dear Mercury,
I think what you said hit the nail on the head! Time, a lot of time and a great deal of patience and love for yourself.
Patience has NEVER been my strong point, every day seems like an eternity and I don't love myself at all....H did a very good job on me, of making me feel that this is ALL my fault....several times he said "this would never have happened if we'd communicated" ...and so, so many other cruel things in which he seemed to "rubbish" everything I'd held dear...so I don't really know after 30 years together who I am really???? i spent my life looking after him and trying to be a good wife and Mother...it seems from what my S tells me I was very successful at the latter but I can't have been the former can I???? either H wouldn't have gone off with the FIRST THING with a pulse that showed the slightest interest in having an affair with him.....
So very sad Fox :(
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Foxberry,
It wasn't YOU and it's NOT your fault. Your H isn't thinking clearly.......he has a warped brain. This is a "sickness", if you will and he is deep into it. You are a good person and you will make it through this. It is tough, that's for sure. Nobody should have to endure such personal pain and hurt. We do take things to heart but that's our nature. You've got to trust yourself and believe in yourself. Even your S validated the fact that you are a good mother. Be kind to yourself and don't beat that dead horse!
((((HUGS))))
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Dear LovemyMan,
Thank you for your kind words...it's 5 months today since I've seen him..... I just can't understand any of it.... but for me, I have to say, the worst is knowing this OW KNOWS she has broken up someone's marriage of 28 years!!! I know H will have lied about me and probably said we didn't have a marriage and he was leaving me anyway, but that is SUCH an old chesnut isn't it? Even if she was stupid enough to believe that, what kind of a woman who is still in the middle of her second divorce goes to bed with a married man because "his wife doesn't understand him" I thought that was just an urban legend.... She must be of such low morals it's unbelievable!!! and that in itself goes against everything my H stood for!?!
The other thing is OW has a 16 S of her own, how can she stand by and watch my H - this man she loves with all her heart and her soul apparently (I found that in an email) treat HIS Son so disgracefully?????? There are so many different, dreadful and unfathomably strands to this awful scenario he has created that it gets so huge in my head I want to scream. I do go to a counsellor and she told me recently that I'm actually on the fast spin cycle of the washing machine and I have to get out very soon...... I know what she means....I just keep going round and round and round.....
Please....someone tell me how do I get out of the cycle of hurt, bewilderment and sadness not just for me but for my S too.
Fox xxxxx
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Please....someone tell me how do I get out of the cycle of hurt, bewilderment and sadness not just for me but for my S too.
It's easier to give advice than take it. I've just stepped out of my own spin cycle to help you out of yours...
You can either
1. Tell your H excatly what you think (phone/ email etc.), but that probably won't get you anywhere
or
2. There comes a point when you don't want to be angry and hurt any more. So just think of one thing the you are really greatful for. Then two (different things), then three, as days go on. Temporarily put a block on the hurt.
Actually, I really find helping someone else helps me too. Sport, yoga, meditation, chocolate, friends, laughing, all have their place, but focussing on someone else, someone who needs your help, is a good focus.
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Please....someone tell me how do I get out of the cycle of hurt, bewilderment and sadness not just for me but for my S too.
Foxberry,
the very glib and simple answer is that you chose not to continue the cycle of hurt etc. You either have hit your own personal rock bottom and are forced to change your tack or you decide enough is enough.
You will know when you are starting on the cycle and the simple thing is turn the other way - do a 180 from what you were about to do - it is that simple and very difficult all at the same time.
Life is all about choices and we have choices every single day - we may not be conscious of them but we have choice and free will.
I got to the point where enough was enough and even I was bored....so I change what I do so that I get a different result. Slowly but surely I have dragged myself to a good place.
This whole thing takes time and there is no magic pill you can take or click your heels together and be far far away....this is a great opportunity for you to grow and you should put yourself at the top of the list.
((hugs))
P
xx
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Hi all,
Been glorious warm weather this weekend in the UK and I think it's made me miss my H even more, does that sound wierd and stupid? :( I think it's seeing all these happy people, holding hands, people who have got similar length marriages together having a drink, enjoying the sunshine...and then there's me...out 'on my own' out with my cousin and family who are trying their hardest to not let me be alone....but sometimes I want to scream....please H come back to me...what did I do that made you run away and leave me so alone....I feel like some huge, imaginary arrow is pointing at me, look at this woman, married 28 years and her H has run off with some unattractive woman because anyone was better than her....THAT's how I feel.....I want to feel loved and desired again....I want back what I didn't know I was losing in the first place....I want to go back to this time last year and make a fuss of him, complain less, moan less, oh I don't know, do everything differently I suppose, then just maybe he wouldn't have started talking to this business colleague that he barely knew about his marriage and life and then start with a coffee, then a drink, then secret meetings and then only ONE MONTH later hotel rooms...so immense in my head and totally alien to the H I thought I knew....
I can't believe we'll never sit at the table in the garden again and laugh about ordinary things, talk about the garden, decking and share a glass of wine....normal things.....things I feel so jealous about that H is doing with OW and pretending that its OK...when it's not because he is still married to me....H should not be living with this woman it is so wrong on every level..... I want to hurt him - like he's hurt me....
I'm still so upset he ignored our S's birthday on Friday and the thought of him sitting having a beer with this OW and possibly BBQing with them, like this was normal and right!!! drives me mad...you can see I have a vivid imagination, but I can only imagine all these scenarios that he's left me for.... and can't understand any of it....H has always been a man of few words, but he clearly didn't find talking to this OW a problem...my Son will have 'none of it about OW' He WILL NOT blame her in any way at all, he says his father is 100% to blame because he made a choice to bed this woman and step over the LINE and betray me....I know he's right, but if SHE hadn't been of low morals and refused to go out with a married man, let alone bed him, then this wouldn't have happened would it.....
The trouble is really I blame myself... :-[
Fox xx
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foxberry,
I'm so sorry for your pain. I understand and have been where you are. It's been a little over 7 months and sometimes I miss my H so much my heart literally aches. But I'm happy to say that those times are few and far between. Those feelings crop up at odd moments when something I see or hear remind me of him. When the longing begins I soon remember what he has done to me and our Ds and the total selfishness of his running away from home brings me back to reality. I still love my H but I certainly don't like the man he is right now. Your S is totally right in the fact that the fault lies with your H not the OW. He made the decision to break his vows and lower his moral standards. You must understand that if it wasn't this OW it would have been someone else. MLC is about a crisis of identity and loss of self worth. This OW has probably told your H crap he wanted to hear to boost his ego. Blah, blah, blah. I know what hurts you the most is your H's lack of communication with your S. Been there, done that !! My H is only just beginning to reconnect with his Ds, but the damage has been so severe that their relationship will never be the same. But those are the consequences of his poor choices. Please remember this is YOUR TIME now. I truely feel that this has been a wake up call from God to make me a better women, friend and mother. If I ever do get the chance to reconcile with my H I hope that I have broken the cycles that have led us to this crisis. Love, Peace & Joy to you and your S.
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Foxberry,
I'm so sad he missed your S's birthday and so sorry for your pain. I guess the reason why he has gone so far away is because he doesn't want anything to remind him of his pain. It's not that you were the pain, but he thinks that the marriage was, somehow. They all think that. He doesn't realise that it was the way he lived it.
DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF.
I know what you mean about the glorious weather making you think more about your H and your time together. It takes a long time to enjoy the weather for itself, without memories of another time and place.
Take care, and I hope that one day soon you will find a glimmer of happiness and hope.
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Hello Mermaid and JustkeepMoving,
You both really helped me today when I read your posts.....my S says that too about the OW being unimportant, that she happened along at just the right time when he was blaming me for all his woes...I think that's a huge part of the problem for me that anything with a pulse would do :( and that H has discussed the most intimate things with OW about our marriage, sex life and everything inbetween.... THAT hurts...and the demons come at night...one of the main things he continually said to me when I was trying to "reason" with him was "I can talk to anyone but you"....
My Son, well he's drawn a line in the sand and basically wants no relationship of any kind with H again...in fact, S said to me last night, he may as well be dead, because he is to me....I was actually stunned...to hear those words from his mouth it proved to me just WHAT H has done to him.....unfathomable.
Thank you for your words of comfort they really do help, so thank you very much. God bless you both
Lots of love and hugs to you
Fox xxxxx
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Wow! I always thought I was alone with my vanisher. I hate to say it's comforting but it really felt like I had the weirdest MLCer around. Some insights I found from the little contact I have had is they do have a reallllly bad self image. During a "family" session he said he just wanted to know that he was a good guy. I told him that I wouldn't have waited 3 years if I didn't think he was worth it and he didn't reply. He also thought there was too much damage done. He never yelled at me but I heard that OW and him screamed at each other all the time. He can't say no, he wants to "please". He will say "i'll think about it" rather than a straight out "no". For some reason he doesn't want to let go of me. That comforts me and I think somewhere down there he does love me but it is so overlaid with guilt and not wanting to feel. The divorce will be finished this time by me. I hate it and I have a small dream that he needs to feel total loss before he starts climbing out. He already has pushed his daughter away so hard that her therapist has said that she should distance herself from him.
Foxberry I know how hard it is. I can say that it took me 3 years before I could say I really would survive. Now, don't get discouraged by that....I also had a close relative die every year (mom, dad and aunt) plus my daughter's problems. Seemed like everytime I got up, I got shot down. I finally got on anti-depressants and they helped. I hated them like the plague but I guess my chemistry got so screwed up that it stayed in the depressed state. I am off them now though and ok. I also talked to a select friend (non-counselor) and she was my lifeline.
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Foxberry,
Interestingly, I have a slight twist to your story - my H claims that he doesn't discuss our most intimate feelings/past events that happened between us with the OW. He said our secrets are still our secrets. But then again he doesn't discuss anything in particular or in detail with me at this time - it's just about finances and the kids.
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Hi, An update to my story. My S got sick of the silence! 6 months of it actually :-/ and emailed H asking him why he'd ignored Christmas and his Birthday and just where was he living etc. but also told him that he was having anxiety attacks and that emotionally I wasn't well either....
Well H replied, first of all he said he thinks about S and me every day and often stuggle to cope with the choice he made...the price I'm paying for choosing happiness over loyalty is sometimes hard to bear, and goes on to blame me for all the lack of contact with his S, he said because he wanted to leave me, that I'd told him there was to be no contact at all with his S...this is not true, I told him NOT to contact us with Christmas cards, at no time did I tell him not to contact S on his Birthday... Of course I told him to choose a family to be with, what does H expect to have two families? Forget it! He then started going on about sometimes he was filled with regret at his choice and that he the problems we had could have been sorted....? But the main things are that not once did he refer to his S's anxiety attacks, my emotional anguish or tell the truth about where he was living.... We actually know now, but he doesn't know, we know...
So yesterday I was brave, called him, H didn't pick up no surprises there...left him a "light and breezy voicemail" so I text him and said we need to talk about our Son and me.....no reply...then I text again and said if he's ever cared about me in 28 years please call...... H text back and said he was in a meeting and would have to speak later.....so I waited and waited and waited. When it got to 5pm I text and said "I guess yu've made the decision not to call, at least I tried to make the first move" . Much later in the evening he replied and said he was sorry, but it wasn't that he'd decided not to call - he was in meetings all day and also needed some time before he called back........
My S told me NOT to reply to this text....I didn't although it was very hard.....and he hasn't called me yet :-/
I so want to know what he meant in his email to my Son about the problems we had etc etc., I NEED to know for my own sanity.......
Fox xxx
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Foxberry
I'm going to give it to you straight, He is still in replay, he has no idea, he bouncing and bouncing and you are pursuing. I've been there, I completely understand. Don't do it. You are just going to get hurt if he picks up that phone.
I'm sorry
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Just had the perfect example of a vanisher <sigh>: need him to sign so I can refinance and get his name off. I could wait till divorce but long story....I called, texted, had bank call. All to nothing. Finally, I emailed and got back "sorry. busy. yes". Hopefully, he will really do it. Oh and nothing on divorce yet. He has till the first week in May to respond. I wish things were different and everytime I have to have to contact, even after all this time, I can't help but cry.
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ddineen
Contact with a vanisher is always hard, I think because we wait and wait and have such high hopes and when contact is made it is such a let down, the disappoint to find they are still the same, still in replay, still jerks is just horrible.
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Having a vanisher is extremely hard. The time I spend wondering how he is bothers me. I shouldn't be worried about him because it seems like H doesn't give a d--- about me. Yet I still do :'( It is harder to because family tells me H is never coming back-they say just look at his actions-if he was coming back H would be talking to you and seeing you. So not only has H vanished but my family is not supporting me because of the way they interpret H's behaviour.
I check his FB page and am shocked at his friends and the comments on happy hour and plans for trips that cannot be afforded. Not entirely sure about OW-if there is one or not -just think it is a strong possiblity. Not trying to kid myself on that fact. Yet not finding any info regarding that at the moment. But if I did it wouldn't really change anything. Gone is gone, no matter where he is or who he is with -right ? So its 232 am and I am awake again while H is probably sound asleep . I haven't slept good since he left actually near the end when H announced he was leaving the not sleeping began but I would make myself lay there knowing that soon he would be gone . :'( :'(
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good4you
Having a vanisher is hard, having any type in MLC is hard. Your family like everyone else they do not understand. Mine still doesn't after 19 months. You need to put all your efforts into you. Doing, trying to find peace within you to heal.
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g4y,
I know the feeling well. I didn't sleep (more than a few hours at a time) for months. It was a tough, tough time. Sorry that you have to go through this. Unfortunately, it is part of our journey. There is no getting around it or over it. You have to go through it.
That said, a few 2 x 4's. Not that you deserve them, but I think you need them (a little). These will be soft 2 x 4's.
Try to stop projecting how he is feeling, how he is doing, how he is sleeping. You really have no idea what he is going through. Replay is Covert Depression. They mask and avoid their feelings by running, playing, drinking, partying, OW, etc. That does not mean that they are happy, that does not mean that they are sleeping well. Try to let go of what he is or is not doing. It just is crazy making. (I know, I did the very same thing. I still do sometimes, but it is much, much less).
Read the post regarding "The Prodigal" - I am copying it below. I think there is much truth to this.
Hang in there. It will get better. Get some exercise (tire yourself out) so that you can sleep.
It is miserable being a prodigal. It is lonely being a prodigal. It is embarrassing being a prodigal. The only friends we have are those who feel we can do something for them. We are as counterfeit as smeared ink on a new twenty dollar bill, and we know it.
Our spouse thinks it is about sex. We know it is really about shame. Our spouse thinks it is about the good life. We know it is really about the guilty life. Our spouse thinks it is about new friends. We know it is really about lost friends. Our spouse thinks it is about what we left home seeking. We know it is really about what we left home and lost. Our spouse thinks it is about walking away from God. We know it is really about being ashamed and attempting to hide from God.
"But my prodigal is so happy," someone is countering. Yes, your prodigal may appear to be "happy," because that is the front we prodigals must demonstrate to the world. How much happiness can come from being separated from the inseparable, a covenant spouse, walking away from home, family, community, almost everything in a former life, and attempting to start all over with a replacement spouse? Until you can hear your prodigal mate's heart, and not simply their words, you cannot determine their happiness
Hugs,
L
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G4Y..the difficulty sleeping makes it worse..because when you are tired, you feel worse as well.
I took Benadryl 50 mg for a long time as it helped me to go back to sleep. I find Bach Rescue Sleep...a spray that I use when I wake up and I cannot return to sleep helpful..I keep it at my bedside. Also Valerian tea (Celestial Seasoning Sleepy Time Tea).
I try very hard not to nap at all during the day.
I am lucky..I've explained to my brother and sister what I believe...and I think they get it too because they know what kind of a person he was before and they too cannot imagine that he would do this. Anyway, it doesn't matter what your family believes although it is annoying to be "told"..like we are children somehow.
Heartsblessing referred again..listen to your inner voice...you know this person well....do what your inner voice is telling you to do. Try to find distractions so that at least some of the time you can get a break from the constant broken record going round and round in your head.
It will get a bit easier...at first, for months really, I couldn't even stay in a 60 min exercise class...I would have to leave and walk around the track and eventually I could come back in...I'd just keep telling myself, it'll be ok, it will be ok.
I still do not like the way my life is.....but it is more tolerable and actually there are fun things too... I need to continue to understand the word patient and to trust that God will take care of everything.
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Thanks L ,V and X
I feel bad for complaining when I think how long some of you have been here. Finally fell asleep about 6am-sorry offmyrocker -I was really looking forward to our visit . Exhausted from my own crazymaking night. Why do I do this to myself ??? I end up feeling and looking like crap. So I pick myself up dust myself off and wipe my eyes. Today is a new day and I will just have to try harder to focus on me. I thought the AD's would help but it doesn't seem to. Guess I should check with my dr .
Wish me luck I am looking straight ahead now not back because that will only drag me back in to the pit and it's really lonely and sad down there :'(
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I have been on meds since November 2010 . Zoloft once a day and xanax as needed. I have a therapist I see once a week. My H was mad that I was off work in Dec and two weeks in Jan for a breakdown. He thought I should be working . Got the impression he thought I was weak. All the while he is drinking and staying gone a lot. Getting more distant with each passing day.
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If you have a health food store nearby, try and get the Bach Rescue Sleep..it really helps e because I can usually fall alseep now but then if I wake up my mind doesn't stop turning and thats 21 months later.
This is not in my control..believe me, I do everything I can to maintain my equilibrium. Our spouses have no idea how this affects us physically. Take care
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Good4you
I was under the impression that one should take xanax daily because it needs to remain in your blood at a consistent level. My Mother use to take it and she gave me one to help loosen my back after I pulled it. Well, all was well until I came off and I just started crying and crying and I had no idea why I was crying or why I was upset.
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Mercury
Thanks for the concern. Whenever I take Xanax it makes me sleep so I don't take it during the day . Also the Dr said it's highly addictive so he doesn't want me to use it daily just when I feel really out of control . I slept really well last night -took a xanax at 11 and slept till 1030 am. Not good since I am looking for a job and need to be fully alert and functioning. Yet I do need to be healthy mentally and physically for interviews :)
Trying to stay focused on just this exact moment nothing -before or after- hoping that it will become natural and not such a challenge as it is today. Praying seems to help so I am doing that throughout the day and expecially at night when all hell breaks loose in my mind :o. Sometimes my thoughts can just bring me to my knees in a heap sobbing uncontrollably still even thought it has been 3 months since H left. I never thought it would go on this long boy was I in denial. I am sure I have a long road ahead of me especially with H not being in contact .Seems to have fallen in to new life with new friends and drinking away his time. Sad to think H is falling into such a state of pain that he is running himself in a drunk stupor with people that dont give a damn about him.
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G4U, I'm very sensitive to meds...I take Clonezapam when I am anxious but I only take 1/2 a pill..a very low dose seems to work fine for me.
If Xanax is making you that sleepy...try cutting them in half and see if you get the relief that you need without the side effects.
3 months isn;t very long, although it certainly feels long. Keep praying..sometimes when I get totally out of control, God reaches down and gives me His comfort..and then I'll be fine again for a while.
Peace to you
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Just checking in on the LBS with vanishers..Tomorrow is four months since H moved out. Nothing has changed from where I sit. Still no contact since last text he sent me on April 14...hope you are doing great.....yeah right ..I am just wonderful.
Have been moving forward slowly and working on me. Detaching has become easier with each day but then again sometimes I crash and burn..Have made great friends here so when I do crash I always have someone who will listen. Thanks to everyone for all the love and support. Somedays its just so hard not to call or text him..would love to see him its been too long...miss his smile :'(
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G4Y,
I know it's very difficult not to contact your H. I'm right there with you. It's been almost 9 months since my H left and I might see or hear from him once or twice a month. I have become to believe that is God's way to remind me that I'm standing. Sad to say that I'm glad my H's life has turned to sh*t (no job, no money, living with friends, lost his relationship with his Ds). As for me I'm doin' really well. I miss him like the d!ckens but I can only love him from afar. I pray for him and wait for the Lord's will in my life. Take care my friend !!
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JKM
Didn't contact him yesterday. Stood strong and kept busy. I don't hear anything about H because he doesn't have contact with anyone that keeps in touch with me-he's busy with his new friends. Back in April the dental asst said he looked good and was friendly . He's normally quiet and doesn't talk much but who knows anymore. This person is not the man I married.
Waiting for the new and improved version to come out ;D But I still want that great sense of humor and beautiful smile. He was always so tender and loving...hope that remains but more intense. Oh well time to stop daydreaming ...Keep pushing onward whilst wishing for some glimmer of love and hope from H.
Have a good day..can't believe it's the middle of May already
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Today marks my one month and a day of NC and I plan to make it a long streak. Every time I have a hankering to email and ask a question- usually a why question- I remind myself that the answer will be a lie or a personal attack and like a dark cloud, it passes by me.
You have much greater restraint than I did at the start- it has taken me a major medical crisis and a lot of time to reach this point. It "helps" that the docs think that a vaccine that I had to have due to h´s stray biting pooch is the cause of my problem. I am not feeling warm and fuzzy towards him at all. What helps A LOT is my dad´s mantra, "If you don´t have anything nice to say, don´t say anything at all." It keeps me mute with regards to h, though he probably deserves some truth spears (yes, spears, not darts) as he hasn´t made the connection between the dog bite and my now life long MS diagnosis. Maybe it´s due to the govt. requirement that is switching from incandescent lighting- h´s bulb just can´t turn on.
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LIW, I don't have a vanisher so I can't help here; however, it does seem to me from reading other stories as well as the articles that it is common for MLCers to 'disappear' for months even if they start out with regular contact. I was non contact with my husband for 3 months and Stayed pointed out to me that in the greater scheme of MLC this was not a lot of time although it certainly felt like it. Five months probably isn't either although I know it feels like it for sure.
If there is a way of you letting him know that you are 'there' without it being overt and it makes you feel a bit better then o.k. - was it RCR who stuck sticky hearts on the underside of her husband's car wheel - however, I think you need to give him this time that he has asked for. For whatever reason this is what he needs now. He knows you are there for him - as you always have been so I would not worry about this.
I know you have been dealing with this a long time and this is out of character with how he behaved previously, but maybe in a strange way this is what needs to happen for him to progress. I guess what I am saying is that despite this being very hard I do not think you are making a mistake by not contacting him. At some point he will either contact you or if there is a natural opening for you to contact him without it being about the two of you (maybe house, finances, something) then you will know it is the right time.
I notice you provide great advice to others on here as you have so much experience and I always look out for it. Sorry I can't provide any more 'real' help to you except my views based on what I have learnt over the past year myself.
Keep strong. It will be o.k.
CrazyStuff
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Hi
My H is now also a vanisher, (BD 26 months ago) he only contacts our S once per week. I have not spoken to my H since 8 months, H saw our S13 for the last time more than 2 months ago.
Up till now I've only sent him e-mails about financial issues. But he answers rarely and NEVER resolves the financial issues, like child support, and since about 6 months he refuses to contact me.
Only yesterday I decided to send him newsie e-mails, things I think he should know (and advice from Stayed) no financial talk. So no more pressuring. I've sent my first e-mail this morning.
I expect nothing, but hope this will bring us back to communicating with each other.
Have a happy day.
Poussin
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Here is a thread that may help.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=762.0
Journey's husband is a vanisher.
Also RCR's article on contact types
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_contact-types.html
I thought we had a thread on this already but so far I can not find it.
I will keep looking.
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Hi
My H is a vanisher also. Some have said them vanishing makes it easier for us to detach. I guess that is true in a way but it is very hard to not to be discouraged with NC . We wonder if they have completely forgotten about us and moved on. I have read SL's postings about her experience an was comforted by the words she spoke there. Take time to read her posts that will be helpful for you as well. No they haven't forgotten us it just seems that way. I read that they vanish to keep from hurting us more . I find that hard to believe but we all have experienced instances when we avoided a problem to inflict further damage so maybe it is similar. I just don't know for sure. I am still finding my way along this path. BD was 12/31/2010-H moved out 01/17/2011. I have only seen H twice the last time being 02/23/2011 for about 10 mins in an IHOP parking lot to sign tax papers. Last phone conversation was 03/09/2011 argued about tax money he kept for himself. I did get a text 04/13/2011 about a business issue and he stated "I hope you are doing great" :o
My best advice is to let him go and truly focus on yourself and children-if you have any. If he contacts you respond but don't talk about your marriage or relationship in any way. Be upbeat and cheerful-yes this is hard because when you hear his voice it shocks and bring the tears and emotions -at least it did to me. Took me a moment to get myself together :'( Don't look for him or ask his friends about what his is doing or who he is with. First this only causes you pain and second it is pursuing and we all know that doesn't work with MLC ers. If you ever need to vent or just talk please feel free to pm me or post.
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LIW, to answer the question "How to handle a vanisher" in my humble opinion probably depends on each individual situation. In my case my ex-wife divorced me 2 1/2 years ago. So I would not be able to distinguish whether she infact is a vanisher or being divorced really meant the end of any contact. Which leaves me no choice but to be also behave the same. By law I no longer can give out any bounderies regarding any relationship she has with her BF, and no longer can give out truth darts on how their relationship started, because her decision was fast/swift. This way no can question how they ended up together. She can always say that she ended our relationship legally prior to being with another person.
This vanishing act they do to you can be actually turned to your advantage... use this time to learn new things, find out what you can do without anyone's help. In this case "If" or "when" they see that you have changed then "maybe" when they are ready they will realize what they have done and you may start seeing some movement on their part. But remind yourself all the time that your change is for you and not them. You will find yourself being a whole person again.
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I also have a vanisher. He left May 2010 and I have not seen him since Dec 2010. He filed for divorce in July of 2010 and it was final in Jan 2011. I wish he would contact me but I just talked to my oldest and she said she thinks the reason he does not contact is that he is ashamed of what he has done. I told her he should be. I also said that I don't think he ever knew how much I loved him even tho I told him all the time and did things to show him I did.
I don't understand it and it is hard to go on but I do. I don't like being by myself. I am very lonely and still have my moments but then I go on. I am involved in my church and have really good people who have helped me with a lot of things my H refused to do. He just quit doing things before he walked out. He totally changed and then told me he needed time to figure out things with himself and then was living with ow 4 weeks after he left. Now how can he figure things out with himself if he is with ow? This I do not understand. Why is he with her. I know they say it is part of MLC but it doesn't make since if you want to figure things out with yourself.
I do see my ex in his work truck once in a while but that is it. I don't look because I am afraid he will snub me and that will hurt even more. I say he hates me but oldest said he doesn't. She said he told her that. Then what the Heck is his problem. At least I would talk to him if I had left.
Sorry I can't give you any hope as I have none. Hang in there and keep praying. God does miracles.
Hampt
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Well, I think you don'te handle a vanisher. You let him/her be a vanisher. Since he become an on and off and afterwards, a vanisher, I only contacted my husband if there has been a death in the family, for tax relate issues or when there was an earthquake where he lives.
He has only contacted me to thanks for my condolences when is grandmother passed away and when one of our pets, that were with him, was dying.
Since OW2 and the 1st falt divorce process he started I went NC. So, maybe is vanishing is a combination of my NC and him had become a Vanisher.
With OW1, at first, he was a clingy boomerang, after I moved back to our town turned into a boomerang.
But I've been having much more peace of mind since NC and Vanishing and much more space and time to heal. I don't need to see monster in a daily, several times a week basis, there are no silly arguments, etc.
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I would like to fined out more about the vanisher MLCer that is flaunting OW everywhere. It seems most vanishers seem to lay low but not mine.
My vanisher also flaunts OW2 all around the city they live at. Takes her on hollidays abroad, brings her to his family (or used to since he has not come to our home time for over a year, not even for christmas). He is high energy MLCer and what I hear through thr grapevine lets me know he is always on the go and barely spleep. He just work like thre's no tomorrow, parties hardy, and moves around the country and abroad.
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Well, I think you don't handle a vanisher. You let him/her be a vanisher.
I agree. They vanish, they have gone. Since they have gone your question probably means should you email, text or phone? I have not seen my MLCer since 4th Dec 2010, there has been no text, no email, no calls. I know she is still alive because the divorce is going ahead. She is 600 miles away across the sea in a different country. D21 and S19 do not see her. They receive the occasional text which they spurn. If I emailed or texted her, what would I say? What would I be trying to achieve?
I worry about her, of course I do, I spent 33 years caring about her and loving her. I can't just switch that off. I think I would only attempt contact with her if I thought it would help her in some way but I have to assume the life she has chosen now is the one she wants and doesn't need any help from me. So No Contact.
Will they forget you? Think you don't care?
Hard to say. But they are in "lurve" baby. Their head is full of someone else. I suspect they don't care whether you care or not.
There is no "handling" a Vanisher. It is now about how you handle yourself. It is a time for emotional and spiritual renewal. What is the most important thing in your life right now? What is your highest priority?
honour
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My wife is a vanisher, BD was May/2011 I have not seen nor heard from her since except a rare e-mail for business purposes for insurance or something, and even that i think was done by the om. She did have lunch with one of our daughters a few weeks ago while she was visiting. Our dauhters are afraid that they will do the same thing now, they are deathly afraid for their relationships, it is so sad really. I am glad though becayuse when it first happened we had limited contact and of course not know what was going on reacted badly to the things she was doing. I am kind of glad that I have no contact because even the limited contact I had was causing me to go into a manic/depressive cycle that was getting worse with time. Now my emotions are stabilizing, I miss her immensely, she has told friends that she misses her life with me and her home, she has put out feelers about coming home, she told a friend that she knows she has hurt me more than anyone in my has ever, and she would be right with that. I don't know what I am doing half the time, i just have to keep moving forward, the thought of her coming home scares the hell out of me, I have not seen her in so long i do not even know what we will talk about, we are different people now, I dont know where this will go, or even if it will happen, although she has expressed the desire, she has made no contact attempt.
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Thanks GP
That's a good perspective on it, that the contact, even very limited, simply fuels the fire and pushes them into negative action. Still can't help wondering if there are similarities in personality type that makes some MLCers more likely to vanish. Certainly I know mine avoided confrontation, and still is, he never talked about his feelings and was very secretive. I suppose if I'm being honest he is not a strong person. Does that ring any bells for anyone??
even a simple e-mail and next thing I got was a change of address for all her mail
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My ex h is a vanisher. BD was 2/16/10. He went thru the motions of "mending" our reln. for two months , but he was already running and just picked up speed. He bullied me into a divorce, but had I known then what I know now I would have handled the situation differently, alas it is what it is. I chose nc for my own benefit long before I suspected what was going on. He told me I could call him anytime for anything. Exh is classic MLC and following the script to the T. He became polar opposite of the person I had known and loved the last seventeen years and I knew instinctively I could not help him other than praying for him. He does respond to my business emails timely, but thankfully they are far and few between. I saw him two months after our divorce (8/12/10), and he was smiling ear to ear and said "hi" & paid me a compliment. Although my verbal response was thank you, he got my real response, FU, and took off running again. I still feel married in my heart & love and miss him every day. Around Jan. 2011, I had an emotional break thru, which has allowed me to move forward and start the process of forgiveness. It has really helped me heal and get back "me."
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I was married 24 years. The last 4 years were to a vanisher who fell "in love" with his "soulmate", "cosmic twin" and "mirror image". I think we had a wonderful marriage. But the years before he vanished were stressful due to things that had nothing to do with our marriage. As all this accumulated husband was in his mid 40s. By age 48, I would guess he was entering a phase that I now believe was active depression. He would say things like "Why does this always happen to me?" (and honestly, the man has had a VERY blessed life all in all). He became excessive in his desire to help other people ... especially other women. It was pretty clear he was doing this for his own ego: to be told what a good man he was. In going out of his way to help others, and be seen as such a fabulous kind of man, he would not be around to be a father, or husband. And too, he would complain about how much work there was to do around our home, yet gladly take on work for other people doing basically the same thing (for free), for the neighbors.
Just before he met the other woman, and vanished to be with her, he told me he did not know who he was. And he said he could not feel. And no matter how much I told him I loved him. No matter what I did for him... he did not feel appreciated. I remember telling him he had a leak in his appreciation tank. And that if he left the family for his soulmate ... or anyone ... he was blind to this diamond mine of love that was the family he had created with me. It did not matter. He left and went directly to live with the "soulmate". They are still together, and recently married.
He has effectively wiped me out of his life. Even when he meets with old friends of ours, they tell me he NEVER mentions me. And when they bring up my name, he NEVER responds. Several people have told me it as if he never knew me, has no memory of me, or our marriage.
When he vanished, H pretty much vanished from our children's lives too. Just prior to vanishing, he was not able to express any interest in them, or what they were doing in their lives (they were 14 and 16 at the time). Now, 5 years later, he is starting to express SOME interest in them by calling several times a month, and inviting them to come visit him.
Will he come back? I dunno. I thought for sure he would ... and I guess I was obvious in this, because in divorce proceedings he told me "you are never going to remarry. You think I am going to come back to you!". Well... yeah. And he hated this. He saw my standing for our marriage as me doing something to spite him, and keep getting spouse support. I guess this kept burning away in him, so he hauled me back into court a year after our divorce was final, to have our divorce agreement modified so I do not get spouse support. He pointedly told me "I do not want to see you, hear from you, or speak to you ever again". He also said that I hurt him. :o
At this point I try to practice just being neutral about it all. I recognize all this is IN him. It is his stuff to work through. (Or not). I continue to hold dear the memory of who he was, and try to have compassion for this being he is now. It has been so long now, I think I do not know who he is. But we have 20 good years of history together. It seems he has no ability to remember any of this now. So, I simply look forward to his emergence from MLC, and hope for a future with him in my life as a friend, laughing about all of this with great empathy. In friendship, and with forgiveness for the pain of the past, I hope to celebrate the wonders of our children, and perhaps our grand children with him. I do not know if this will be so. But I hold this picture in my mind as a possibility.
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I do not know if having them gone is good or bad, sometimes I wish she was there even if it meant her berating me constantly, just to know she is ok and maybe have some hope that she would come back to me.
At this point I juyst do not know what will happen, she was a loving, kind hearted person, who has lost her way for some reason, I do know that in the last months before BD she started talking a little about the hurts of her childhood, I had hoped she would work it out, but apparently she cannot do that with the man that really loves her, she finds it better with someone who she even admitted she doesnt really know.
We will see It is still early for me compared to some of you, My last communication in an e-mail I toold her I was here for her either as her husband or her friend, whether she believed it or not, but the choice was hers to make. oh well we will see what happens
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Mine vanished 19 months ago and I remain by his side whether he knows it or not. So many things have changed and happened since he's been gone. I still find this a blessing as I have been able to figure out my own world one of which I have figured out I can really love somebody including myself. I have discovered so many great qualities about myself that even the other day I commented that someday I will make someone a great wife but it took MLC to make me realize what a wonderful person I am deep down inside.
Life has become simpler for me. I still have days of frustration but those are far and few in between. I am enjoying being single not that I want to be forever but for now it's good. I still have hope he will return and the love in my heart has not diminished for him so I will continue on my own journey. Who knows what's going to happen but the best thing is I no longer worry about it. I have a good life.
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Thanks GP
That's a good perspective on it, that the contact, even very limited, simply fuels the fire and pushes them into negative action. Still can't help wondering if there are similarities in personality type that makes some MLCers more likely to vanish. Certainly I know mine avoided confrontation, and still is, he never talked about his feelings and was very secretive. I suppose if I'm being honest he is not a strong person. Does that ring any bells for anyone??
Bells loud enough to be heard all the way over in Luxembourg! Seriously. This is my H to a T. My H avoided all confrontation by just saying nothing. Feelings....... the only ones I got in the latter years were negative or selfish. Secretive, well I found out about at least 4 email accounts he had and 2 FB pages. My H also had to be right all the time. No matter what it was he was right If someone said something and you knew what they meant....he would correct them just to show he was smarter. Drove me nuts.
Geeze after reading this, I'm wondering what there was. I am the total opposite.....
On a lighter note.. have you ever noticed when you do spell check for MLCer it comes up with Ulcer?? I find that oddly amusing.
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Well, not sure if personality makes someone more prone to be a vanisher. My husband was not a conflict avoider nor secretive. He was not even a vanisher for the first 22 months.
ged, very funny that of for spell check MLCer comes up with Ulcer ;D
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Definitely interesting...mcler to ulcer. I am going to change ulcer into lurker (us until we jump into the forum ourselves). Change lurker into murky (the environment we all find ourselves in). Change murky into lucky (someday h I hope you can see the lantern I am holding up for you at the end of the tunnel). And finally lucky into plucky - that's who Standing in Patience is!
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Has anyone's mlcer changed from a vanisher into a Boomerang etc.?
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Searching,
You may want to read Storm Riders thread.
She has been at this for 2 1/2 years or so.
I think she states that the furthest her H was from her - was at about 18 months - and, since then, he has come around more and more to see the kids.....He is still very much involved with OW.
Just search Storm Rider on the Members tab......and read her posts. She hasn't posted to often recently - so you should be able to find the posts that I am speaking of rather easily.
Limitless
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/story-threads-2010/paving-the-way/msg2477/#msg2477
Here is her first thread, I am not sure that you have viewing capability of members.
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I wanted to reach out to my fellow Vanisher survivors. I'm really feeling it today. I know it's the holidays and my knee is hurting, and my defenses are down due to lack of sleep. But my question is... for those of us that have Vanishers, have things changed for you since this thread started? I really want to know that there is some hope out there. Nothing in my situation has changed, still long gone, no contact unless it is about the dogs, and even his family has seemed to vanish from my life. I sent a happy Thanksgiving email to MIL and FIL, and all his brothers and sisters. None of them replied. Not shocked, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed. How they can all just vanish?? They don't even contact my kids, H included. It boggles the mind!
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No, no change. I mean, there was a change. I still daily check a couple of joint project email accounts that we have. Yesterday all was fine. Today it ask me for the password. I did not changed it. So, husband did. Why? No idea. I never told him I still check the accounts (he never told me if he does, or does not do that, I never asked). Still, why change it?... And why now?...
My feeling regarding the changed email accounts password was "whatever". Not even gonna ask if he changed it or why, Can't be bothered.
Will send SIL, as always, a merry Christmas/Happy New Year email card. She has always replyed. She still puts likes in some things I put on my FB (she was the one who come to ask to be my friend). Never talked with her about all this. Really have no interest in having such a conversation.
Fell a million miles and years detached and away from husband. He is just a vague memory, someone from the past...to whom, sadly, I'm still legaly attached.
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In the beginning one of my SIL's would stay in contact and when I had a FB page, she would comment a lot and send nice messages. But something happened a few months ago. She just stopped responding. This was after she told me I was an amazing woman for standing for my marriage.
I've never had the closest relationship with my in laws, but in all actuality neither did my H. When he left me he left "his family" My dad loved him like his own son, and H was very close to him. They did all kinds of things together. Since his family lives in different states he didn't see them much. My family was his family.
It's all mind boggling!
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My family was also my husband's family. My cousins were his cousins, my uncles and aunts his. He has some of his won but was never close to them. I never even saw the cousins. Ever. He knew everyone in my family, down to greadaunts/uncles.
My SIL still does what she used to do on my FB. I'm the one who hardly ever make a like in anything she posts.
Since he left husband missed all the kids in the family. Never knew them, only saw our nephew when the boy was a baby. The boy is now 6.
Really, can't see much coming out of this, but, divorce (when, no idea, he drags and drags...) and no more.
Any remaining connection is broken. Nothing left. Just emptyness.
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It's weird when I think of this now.. but he has a brother that I did not meet until we had been married 18 years...
We have the same situation Anne. My family was his. His family was not there.
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I've meet MIL, FIL, SIL both grandmothers (now dead). Saw uncle and uncle's second wife once.
Thinking about it, parental grandmother death looks like the time he started to become different. Don't remember exactly when it was, but a couple to three years before he left. Maternal grandmother died early 2010. He never come back to our home town since. So, did not come to see MIL.
SIL sometimes, like maybe twice a year, goes to city he lives at and sees him.
Well, loolslike they lost a wife and extended family. For what I have no idea.
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I have had no contact at all with my H since July.....he occasionally emails our Son (28) but only to answer questions about when is he going to pay me etc., he never telephones our Son to ask him how he is and never, ever,asks how I am....that is what hurts our Son the most....
NC enables me to move on...but it is like a death with no body....does that make sense...
Love and hugs
Foxy xxxx
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I have a semi-vanisher. He vanishes from my life and from the kids for weeks on end, then we got through periods of emails and phone calls. It is simultaneously easier to stand with a vanisher (because we don't have to deal with as much crap as boomerangs) and harder to stay standing because it is boring, there is low visibility of MLC behaviours, and, frankly because in the meantime we meet other, often less MLC "crazy" people in the months when we don't hear from the vanisher. Also, they NEVER cycle back. What I see in my H is alot of FEAR (I don't know what he fears, but there are times when if he had a big forehead sign saying, FEAR LIVES HERE, I would think, "that's about right".
Questions I would love to have considered:
Are vanishers EVEN more preoccupied with themselves than other MLCers, or less (ie they stay away because they forget about us, or because they want to let us have a chance to get on with our lives)?
Do vanishers have more complex problems in MORE areas of their lives? Problems I see in H: completely identified with his career, derives his sense of self from money, materialistic gain and career success, MAJOR people pleaser - unable to manage personal relationships with any emotional honesty and "says" what people want to hear, whilst doing something else.
Do vanishers commonly have INTIMACY problems? Do other vanishers TEND to have problems with being matter of fact with discussing sex? Obviously a vanisher NEVER has sex with the LBS, because they have vanished. My H has issues to do with motherhood (our sex life changed from the moment I was pregnant the first time and never recovered and not for lack of me trying). He NEVER wanted to discuss sex in a open and liberal fashion. He was like a cross between a prudish nun and silly school boy. I know for sure (I was a virgin when we met, so not really aware of what other men were like, but I have since had experiences with other men that demonstrated a much more open (and healthy?) approach to sexual intimacy than I remember EVER having with H.
I also notice H making observations and recommendations about raising our son that are actually not about our son, but about HIM. For instance, I received an email telling me what an honest, sensitive, caring and thoughtful boy he is. (FIrstly I live with son, H does not, so I a more than aware of our son's positive attributes, secondly none of these traits has stopped H from FAILING to maintain regular contact with our caring, thoughtful boy). H has also failed to PROPERLY bond with our D so far. He loves her, but I would say that he has not bonded with her in a way that recognises WHO she is as a person.
Anyway, I am now just journalling about the few observations I have made about characteristics of my off n on H (semi-vanisher).
Maybe others can see some similarities?
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I don't think they are more preoccupied with themselves, I think they are more afraid. I like to think they really don't forget about us but are in high avoidance mode to try and forget about us. I think they hope that we make the decision easier for them by finding someone new, which is why all types tell the LBs to find someone else.
I also doubt that they have more complex or more problems then other types, they are unable to face us, for them facing us maybe facing themselves. I think they are just better at running. I also believe god gave me a vanisher because I would have serious hurt a boomeranger. I believe my H MLCer was trigger because we had reached our join "family" golds, him moving careers into a field of younger more physically fit men, and genetic. Mine was never good at personal relationships, he pick on just about everyone, including this current girlfriend, he didn't like her or anyone in his group, he was know as the golden boy of his job before moving.
Mine never had a problem with talking about sex, but not about the intimacy. Our sex life have gotten very good right before he left, I think it scarred him.
As for our D15, he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.
I think vanisher=weakness, fear, denial taken to the extremes.
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I'm wondering if you ever initiate contact with your vanisher. Mine only contacts me when he wants something. We have no children that we share. The last two emails I sent him were unreplied. He's been living with OW since BD but still will not admit it to me. He says its too hard to see me but has been seen around town holding hands with OW. I feel like he just wants to forget about me & our marriage but doesn't have the guts to tell me. I feel like I want answers....but I know we are not to pursue, pressure or have R talk.
How long do I let this go on? He is living the life he wants with OW and I am in limbo. Do we let them just competely vanish??
It's only been 10 months for me.....and I know I should already know the answer to this. Why can't I remember?
I don't want H to forget about me!
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Inlimbo123,
I agree with you entirely - it is TOO painful for them to see us or talk to us as that would be admitting what they had done and seeing the pain in us and they are far to self-absorbed and self-centred to want that!!!! Do they think about us? I'd like to think so, but who knows...I only recently found out that H's OW has been married 4 times!!!! Does H know about it? I very much doubt it, he thinks she's been married twice...I wanted to scream it from the roof tops but again my S the voice of reason said NO! If he does know he will think we are interfering in his "private life" and he's very paranoid about that....or if he doesn't know and leaves her, where is he going to come???? and of course, again like at Easter, all for the wrong reasons...so we have to sit on this bit of information...
No I never contact H....since he left his old job for his new one - I have no contact email or mobile for him anyway. Our Son does but will not give either to me....I firmly believe, knowing me, that - that is the correct thing for S to do....I wouldn't be able to resist texting him - at least this way H can't blame me for anything else that's going wrong in his life.....
I do take on board though the comment about our MLCers not contacting us and not pushing with the D as they want to think that we're the ones doing the Divorcing etc., again that gives their guilt "a place to hide".....It's all so tragic and so very very sad....
Love and hugs
Foxy xxx
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I feel like I want answers....but I know we are not to pursue, pressure or have R talk
While they are in replay or R&R (Ready) then you will not like the answer and they may not be the truth anyways.
Do we let them just competely vanish??
I did, I found it to be much easier to learn to live my life, to detach, to grow.
...and I know I should already know the answer to this. Why can't I remember?
I found in the beginning I would be just as forgetful as a MLCer was. It depression and fear that cause it, in time as you grow you will remember.
I too don't want my H to forget me, I just know that contact with mine usually results in more pain and sorrow for me. I also know the man he currently is isn't someone I want in my life. As hard as it is we have to let them go and see. One day I hope that each of our H walk back into our lives.
Standing is not standing still, I understand how you feel like you are in limbo, You'll find a way and a will to live your life.
I do take on board though the comment about our MLCers not contacting us and not pushing with the D as they want to think that we're the ones doing the Divorcing etc., again that gives their guilt "a place to hide"..
So true.
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Thank you, thank you Merc & Fox!! I am in a bad place lately.....and I feel like I want to do all the things that I KNOW I shouldn't (contact, R talk, answers) It all feels like it's just letting him go about his life with NO CONSEQUENSES!!
I know I don't want to be around H the way he is right now....yet I still want to pursue him....WTH is wrong with me??.....I KNOW better.....why am I even considering it?
I thought I was growing....getting better & stronger....now lately, I almost feel like I did right after BD. H is always on my mind....I can't concentrate at work.....obssessed with thoughts of H.......my mind feels all jumbled. I've lost all the ground I thought I gained.
I thought getting answers or some sort of contact from H would help me....I should know better....LET HIM GO....LET HIM GO....LEAVE HIM BE....it goes against all that I feel I want. Thank goodness for everyone here to remind me. Others in RL cannot understand....and I'm letting their advice & comments seep into my mind and override what is advised by others here....who have already been there.
Thank you again for your guidance.
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I'm wondering if you ever initiate contact with your vanisher.
I don't initiate any contact with my vanisher. There has been zero contact since she left. The nearest I have come to any contact is seeing her signature on the divorce documents. In four days time it will one year of NC. And I'm not even sure if the term No Contact is appropriate now in my sitch. No Contact implies there might be contact if she or I didn't make an effort to maintain No Contact. Up until about two months ago I still felt the pangs to initiate some communication but not now. No Contact no longer requires effort. It just is. What she is feeling I have no idea.
It is a new life. You are more than a relationship with your H inlimbo123. Limbo is over when you say it is.
honour
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S&D my husband never had intimacy problems. Yes, in the few times we exchanged a few words, I saw a lot of fear in him. Much more fear than when he was a clingy boomerand and then a clingy boomerand during OW1. Last time I exchanged a word with him (on the phone) he sounded like a hurt, angry, cornered animal. He went from nice to spew to tears in minutes.
They don't forget about us. Mine is a vanisher but he spents ages trying to engage with me in strange ways, and still does, with the court fault divorce process. They want us to react to them.
Husband as a lot of issues from his childhood/adolescence. Not sure if having more problems makes them a vanisher...
inlimbo123 only initiate contact with husband for legal/tax reasons of if a relative dies. He only got in touch when his grandmother and after, one of our pets, died.
Hugs
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Do any of you ever send your vanisher birthday or anniversary wishes?
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I send birthday wishes and Easter and Christmas..not anniversary of Valentine's day
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I did the first year, but not the second. He never responded.
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I've sent nothing and received nothing.
honour
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InLimbo, He knows I'm a world class brat! LOL! On Oct 21st our Anniversary I got thru the whole day fine..Then around 8pm I texted him "11 years ago today I married the man of my dreams, took a vow to stand by him through sickness and health. Just lettin' ya know I'm still at it."
He did say something after that but he was smiling and mumbling and I missed it. I felt better. I know not to pursue but I reassure him once in a while. If his head is gonna be so twisted then I'm sure nothing I'm doing is making matters any worse. :) Now his Birthday I'll ignore Jan 13 LOL.
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When he was a clingy boomerang/boomerang I did sent happy birthday/merry christmas/happy new year and received
the same.
Since he vanished, no, I've send nothing and got nothing.
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No contact at all since I last telephoned him foolishly on my birthday in July, that conversation just upset me more that's all, nothing since then and don't expect to. Our S receives emails occasionally but only in response to questions re finances etc., noting more... I am no longer on his radar in his new world....
Foxy xx
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Do vanishers commonly have INTIMACY problems? Do other vanishers TEND to have problems with being matter of fact with discussing sex? Obviously a vanisher NEVER has sex with the LBS, because they have vanished. My H has issues to do with motherhood (our sex life changed from the moment I was pregnant the first time and never recovered and not for lack of me trying). He NEVER wanted to discuss sex in a open and liberal fashion. He was like a cross between a prudish nun and silly school boy. I know for sure (I was a virgin when we met, so not really aware of what other men were like, but I have since had experiences with other men that demonstrated a much more open (and healthy?) approach to sexual intimacy than I remember EVER having with H.
S&D - my ex h was the same as yours, very much a prude when it came to sex and not very experienced. By the time he left though his personality had completely changed... I could tell he was different about his sexuality.
I just let him be a vanisher because I feel like this is what he needs to do (meaning I don't force myself on him) but he knows I'm waiting. However it is very painful and leaves doubt of little hope some days but I have to rely on my faith that God knows what He's doing. I also believe he's a vanisher because I could not handle knowing his every move and if there "is" OW in his life. Something I can tell you about him was that he was a loner, not very close to his family and could put off his friends. After 24 months of BD he has pretty much walked out on everyone, me, daughter, family (mom, sisters), old friends. I know at one time he had reconnected with his high school friends, I have no idea if he still sees them or talks with them. He will NOT do anything for us except give us money. The house is his but when I contact him to discuss issues, it's always get it fixed and let him know. We need firewood and I was over at his friends house the other night seeing him and his wife. He walked out with me as I was leaving telling me to stop by and see his wife (she is dying) because she's not doing well. He proceeded to tell me ex h called him about getting us some firewood and he would try and get us some this weekend. Now his wife is sick and dying and my ex h calls him to do something for me. Ex H will not show up for anything at school for our D17, there is always an excuse mostly work.
I send him email about finances and to give him updates on our D17. I sent an email the week of Thanksgiving telling him we were going to FL our home state and that our D was going to see his family. I told him to have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. I asked D on Thanksgiving Day if she had heard from him, "of course not". I said well if I knew he was at his sisters I would have him meet us half way. She said I bet you a million dollars he's not there, when we we're a family he would never choose to be with them why would he now. Then she said speak of the devil and he called her. She spoke with him the required one minute then he asked to speak with me. Said he got invited to a hunting camp in AL and that's where he was at for the day. Got to his sister house, everyone hugged me his mom came in and hugged me spoke with me, said I looked good. When D came home she said grandmother said the last time she seen son was in July at a funeral for about 10 minutes.
I think my Ex H vanished to try and make it easier on me (in his head) but this hurts his child. Which is totally against his "old" way of thinking. Then in my thinking I think he vanished because our love/friendship/family is such a strong bond and he feels the pull is too much for him. That if he comes around us he will get sucked back in and he does not want to be here. I give him his space and every once in awhile let him know I am praying for him and here. It's hard to know what is right and what is wrong...I let my faith guide me. I try and shower him with kindness and love and not get into any confrontations with him. Maybe if he feels the love and kindness it will spark a change in his heart...I'm of the faith that anything can happen at anytime.
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Has ANYONE seen a vanisher (only contact being regarding D2) be gone more than a year...with OW the entire time...NO glimmers of hope for me...return?
I posted this on my own thread too. Not sure if anyone still checks in on this one? I know that some have said that my H is an In-and-out because he still sees D2, but they seem to be almost one in the same (Vanisher and In-and-out)...or at least the most similar. If not for D2, he would be a Vanisher...of that I am sure.
Running out of hope...
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Mine is a vanisher. I haven't seen her in thirteen months. Zero contact. In all that time she has had one face-to-face meeting with S19. Zero contact with D22 for sixteen months.
She is apparently still alive.
honour
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It will be two years Feb. 5 that mine has vanished. I've had about 5 texts in that time and the last time I recieved a text was Nov. 2010.
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I do not think you should base your hope on whether you SEE the vanisher or not.
I know it FEELS better to have a sign. But I do not think that it has anything to do with what is going on during this crisis.
Your hope needs to be based on the love that YOU have inside.
You are the one that will get to make the final say.
SO your HOPE needs to be focused there, not on the MLC'er.
RCR says that MLC takes TIME, and TRUST the PROCESS.
Find HOPE in those two things and with in yourself that you can control YOU!
Because YOU have no CONTROL over your MLC'er during the CRISIS.
That much I am sure about.
I hope that helps.
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I have a vanisher, I've seen him only twice in the last two years. I get about 3 text a year and that is all. Try to except that at least we don't have to experience monster or OW thrown in our faces. Each MLC is a little different and a lot the same amount of contact or no contact varies as they cycle. Move your focus onto you and your 2 year old, as MLCwife stated you can control only you and you two are the most important. Letting go of a vanisher is just as hard as letting go of any other type (I believe), but letting them go is all we can do. Paving the way with a vanisher is more like make your own way in life but leaving the door open for them to walk through, the real hard part is trying not to spend all day look over your shoulder for them.
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I'm married to a Vanisher too..haven't seen him since May 2011 and my last contact with H was a telephone call instigated by me incidentally last July... nothing at all since.
He emails our S when he has to over financial stuff, but that's it. I have, I feel, learnt that NC is far better for Me, it has enabled me to get on with my life without Monster...my H also lives with OW 200 miles away so no chance of "bumping into each other"... through S recently learnt that he is now renting a flat 6 mins away from where he works, as it was taking him two and a half hours each way to work.... (too much thinking time! :o) so who knows in his world what is happening...living with OW, not living with OW....but it doesn't stop my life from carrying on in the best way I can....
I'm learning, ever so slowly, to stop "scratching at the scab" that way it will heal......and hopefully the new life will emerge bright, shiny and new ;D For me a Vanisher, is the best I could have had....
Love and hugs
Foxy xxx
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I agree that dealing with the day to day drama would have killed me but I would give almost anything for a glimmer of SOMETHING positive...some signs of regret, or remorse or something. WE shared a lot of experiences and had plans for the future...I know, we ALL did. :'(
I know. It's MLC so nothing makes sense. I guess I would like to see something. The GAL thing is really hard with a 2-year old. She IS my life and knowing that he is missing out on it...and that she WILL be effected by all of this for the rest of her life if he doesn't come out of the fog...kills me. I thought that my life was going to be a family...now it's being a crazed, stressed, single-mom! REALLY? Sorry, I am just feeling like these Vanishers are the least likely to come back. I want to have hope. I would like to trade my Vanisher for a Clingy Boomerang please?!?! Ugh. Just trying to find that hope because mine is really failing me right about now.
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With Hope,
On Rejoice Marriage Ministries, there are testimonies of marriage restoration even when the spouse disappears for a season... Look at what Charlyne says in her Question and Answer Section:
Q5: Did you ever hear of a marriage being restored when there is no contact with the absent spouse?
Charlyne responds:
Yes. The Lord is the one that is moving circumstances on the other side of your mountain. You are praying and standing for the Lord to touch and change your spouse's heart. It is not you speaking, pleading or manipulating your spouse to come home. It is your Lord speaking to your spouse to, "Go Home!"
So, I believe that if we take our journeys and keep on praying, God moves!
I don't know of any cases and I also think I would like a CB :o, but God knows better for me. I choose to trust.
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Thanks Mitzpah. I am an addict to RMM and have seen that but I also am confusing myself with the promises from God. HAS God really promised ME that MY marriage will be restored? Charlyne often states to believe in what God has promised you for marital restoration...I don't know if HE has told me anything. I know that He can...but don't know if He will! So frustrating.
Sorry, just struggling as I approach next week's 1-year anniversary of my H's move out. I know I'm still "early" in all of this but the pain and panic feels like it's setting in again with the approach of next week. I would love to just see something.
I am trusting that God will work things out as is His will, but wish He would give me a little insight. My H is a conflict avoider with certain things that are emotional...so maybe that is why he turned out to be a Vanisher. He used to claim that he was too effected by feeling pity for someone...apparently he got over that issue because he seems to have no pity for me!
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Dear With Hope and Mitzpah,
I too wish I had some sign of sadness, remorse, missing me etc., etc., but my H makes no effort with his gorgeous ONLY Son and only living relative apart from one Uncle who he hasn't spoken to in 7 years! But H doesn't, he doesn't ask how his Son is let alone ask about me; he cannot bear to be reminded of what he has done...so he does not enquire - hence not having to listen to the answer...remember H is "happy" to hear about his previous life, may "rock his new happy boat"....
We as LBSs do not choose what type of MLCer we get....if we could we would choose NOT to have our H's in MLC at all...There are no certainties in life, I know that now, the only certainty is that there is a tomorrow and the way we live it is OUR choice...not our H's....
Many on this Forum have Boomerangs, Clinging Bs etc., but they too will say there are dreadful times with their MLCers being around. I have several wonderful friends from this Forum who don't have Vanishers but have a mixture of Vanisher and B's reappearing occasionally; but that is painful too...so we are all the same really - just in a different way.....
For me, to see my H come and go would be heart-breaking....so maybe my God knows what I can cope with and what is best for me lol ;) Because to see my H and think about the happy times we had would be more than I could bare.... :(
We each have our own cross to carry and carry it we must....for we are bigger than MLC. None of us asked to be in this place -and would have done anything for this not to have happened...so we must carry one.....carrying that flicker inside of us, but if H doesn't come back what then? Do we give up? NO....our MLCers are carrying on their lives...we must do the same...believe me I know hard this is...I live it every day and sometimes..feel very sorry for myself and rant! >:( You can ask Voyager!!!!! lol But I love my Son and my friends and family and will NOT let this MLC take another minute of my life in pain.... Let's rally round each other on this Site and be there for each other no matter what....
None of this is easy but it is easier with each other.....
Love and hugs always
Foxy xxx
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Thanks Foxberry. I responded to your PM as well. I agree with what you wrote. We all wish that we didn't have be even be here. Wish we could all know eachother under completely different circumstances. I mentioned this in my PM that we are all such caring, compassionate people...it's hard to believe that we would be LBS. I know that we all have our own issues, but the fact that we are here supporting one another says so much about each of us. We will get through this...together.
Thanks.
WH
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I have to agree, I believe God gave me a vanisher for a good reason, I would not have been able to handle a CB. One of us would have ended up in the hospital, but I'm not sure which one. Hahaha
Throughout the two plus years, I have always had a vanisher as a H but I have lost and found God a few times. I always believe that God could fix anything and would, I never heard of this free will thing being a handicap. I read the bible, which didn't help, the Old Testament was hard on me, I'm not an Israelite and I read it very cut and dryly. I am disappoint that I was forced to give up the God from my childhood and accept the God of my adulthood. I don't prey anymore for my H, only that I'll be ready for the D, and come out of it OK. I preyed so hard and for so long, begging for his return and with a heavy heart I gave up, it wasn't helping me and the disappointment was becoming too much. I don't know if he is working on my H or not, I don't know if this was what he wanted for me, I just know it is what it is and just because I felt the deepest sorrow I have ever felt, I was never alone, my H left but God did not.
This is without a doubt the worst time of our lives and it will end.
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Mercury,
At least God isn't a vanisher! I know that when I thought I couldn't find God, it was because I had moved away... I also know that He is always there and He will not abandon me, and for that, I am grateful!
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Foxy :)
Just a quick but I think relevent hijack
.I live it every day and sometimes..feel very sorry for myself and rant! >:( You can ask Voyager!!!!!
I think Fox that if anyone is an example that you can live without your MLCer in your life its you. And the benefits of having a vanisher for you have been immense, not what you wished for I know, but the reflection and growing and healing you have done in his absence just shows what LBS can acheive when they have to go on their own path and are not joined on to the MLCers.
I think, I hope, that painful though that process has been (especially the number of 2x4's you got) that has been a silver lining for you in all of this.
Even if its only that the last time I saw you, did you know you only got one 1x1 from me???? :o :o :o
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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V, I luv ya!!!! You know that without you I wouldnt have made it xxx you listened, advised, 2x4 d me, & hugged me in my sorrow.
V you never gave up on me.... Now, I am woman hear me roar!!!!!!! I want to be here for others - all because my friend Voyager guided me through the minefield of MLC......I'm not healed or through it but I can see the light....
Love & hugs
Foxy xxxx
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Mercury,
I read your post (Jan. 27) and I can so relate to everything you said. I do not have a vanisher as you do though. Our contact is very limited and sometimes a month goes by without any. I just want to share a sign (a real one) that I truly needed at the very moment I saw it. Perhaps it will help you and others as well. Anyway, I was driving down the road and thinking that I just didn't know how much longer I can continue praying for my ex H. Then I saw the sign........it said, "Keep praying while you are waiting.......God is working".
(((HUGS)))
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Not sure how I am feeling about H today. Confusion clouds my mind and heart. Talking/praying constantly not quite sure what will be but I know that God has got me in his hands. Just trusting Him that I will be alright. That isn't to say that I don't miss H- gosh I do ever so very much. It is almost 1 year since I have seen him. People in RL say it should be easier since H has been gone so long so what's my problem- get over it :o :o
I don't care how long it has been. My heart still aches for the man I love and married. :'(
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G4M,
It took me about 20 months from BD1 and with some MAJOR MLC bonehead maneuvers til I LET GO, but when I did, I completely let go. So, I can imagine without the bonehead stuff, it may have taken longer. Don´t beat yourself up over it, but IF your health is starting to suffer, then I would say watch out, protect yourself as emotional damage does lead to physical harm.
Hug,
FTT
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I know I don't have a CB, but perhaps my h is changing.
He has emailed me in the last two weeks a little less than ten times about family matters. I read them, set them aside and then respond cordially a little later. I think he is peeking out a bit.
He continues to talk to children one or two minutes every other day or after a couple of days. He seems to ask more questions about how the other children are doing when he speaks to one of them at a time. He tells them that he "loves" them at the end of the phone call. He purposefully sounds "cheerful" like he putting on an act.
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I just wanted to check in with some others with vanishers.
Still not one word from my H. It's been 483 days since I've seen him or talked with him.
I hope RCR is paying attention to the vanishers as well. I think it will be important to see what happens with our situations over time. The boomerang seems much more like MLC to me. I had one for years. I wonder if once they finally vanish it's over. Perhaps they are instead WAS. I think RCR should be tracking this so she will have some insight for her work. Right now, that's a big black hole.
I personally believe that NC is a bad thing for more than a few weeks, at most a couple of months. Beyond that I think it's just too easy for the MLCer to just move on with his life without settling anything.
I really feel like he is just gone now.
I have made contact with him 2 times in the last 6 months. He responded to the first 3, but not the last 2, although one was just telling him the accountant is ready for his taxes.
He turned in his tax stuff and signed our taxes, so he knows we are still married. ??? The whole thing is crazy. My counselor is at a loss.
He is free to do whatever he wants, so what's stopping him from finalizing the divorce???
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Yes having a vanisher can be very painful. The complete absence from your life is mind numbing. Then to hear or see news of their activities can be devastating. My snooping on fb doesnt help yet I dont think it snooping when you are married. Guess I am naive :)
Last contact was from his lawyer making demands about the suv I have and a 1099 form that I supposedly failed to tell him about. Well I never got the 1099 form and he could have just called me about it but that's not how he does things. It almost feels like out of sight out of mind.
Caught him with a woman on 03/17/2012 dropping him off at his car 137 am and then last night found fb photo of him and friends with his new harley in Florida
Just keep praying for my sudden return.
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I stopped trying to find out anything about him.
It was hurtful and misleading. Almost like I was torturing myself.
He never told anyone (as far as I know) about when he was thinking of me or that he loved me or that he wanted to come home, even though those things have happened (in the past). I only heard the "he's dating someone." Only he knows what's in his mind.
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Mine is a vanisher. She has vanished. She left Dec 4th 2010. There has been not a single text, email or phone call between us in all that time. We were together thirty-three years. Married twenty-eight.
We are divorced. The only communication we had during the divorce process was via solicitors.
She attempts occasional contact with son and daughter. Daughter ignores any attempt of contact from her mother. Son has met his mother June 1011 and March 2012. One hour each meeting. Mother and daughter have not seen each other or spoken to each other since Sept 2010.
I personally believe that NC is a bad thing for more than a few weeks, at most a couple of months. Beyond that I think it's just too easy for the MLCer to just move on with his life without settling anything.
What would you like him to settle?
For me NC has helped. I read of the torment that the LBS here are put through by the day-to-day drama of their MLCer and I can't help but think that as nightmarish as my situation has been it is an easier nightmare than the death by a thousand cuts that many LBS are subject to.
My marriage was murdered and buried in the woods but I have survived thanks to two amazing children, RL friends and forum friends here and elsewhere.
I'm not sure I have much to contribute these days because my situation is done and dusted. There is no drama to report.
honour
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I want him to settle us, our relationship. Are we married? Why hasn't he divorced me if he doesn't want to be married? He needs to make a decision once and for all. Why not divorce me if he's done? He hasn't said the word divorce to me since September 2009 when he told me he couldn't commit to the divorce. He was "back" for about a year and now gone. He has said he misses me and thinks of me... so where the h*ll is he???
I know I have the power to D him if I want to, but I don't want to. I want to reconcile our marriage. So I wait.
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He has said he misses me and thinks of me... so where the h*ll is he???
I see, that is a difficult situation. A state of limbo. Your H has stated he misses you and thinks of you so perhaps in your situation some contact could have some positive bearing. In my case W went full speed for D without a single look backwards.
loveisntweakness, do you have no idea where your H is?
honour
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I know generally where he will be for the summer.
I, in fact, did contact him.
We surprised other with gifts left on each others' door steps at Christmas. I sent a thank you text and he responded with a thank you card. Then, since I was tiring of the NC, I sent him another text letting him know where I stood after a year of not having seen him. I told him I still loved him and missed him and remained committed to our marriage. That was at the end of January. I have heard nothing since.
So I feel I have reached out and anything more would really be pursuing, so I'm stuck. I have to just wait.
One person can't bring an end to the NC.
I could call him, but I don't think that's a good idea. If he needs time to process, then he needs time to process. He knows where I am and what I'm thinking.
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I personally believe that NC is a bad thing for more than a few weeks, at most a couple of months. Beyond that I think it's just too easy for the MLCer to just move on with his life without settling anything.
I wonder about this too, but don't believe I had a choice or that some other forum members with vanishers do/did either. In my case, as soon as the OW's husband told me of the affair (with my longtime "dear friend" and mother of D's three closest friends), it was as though H had no reason to live the lie of being a happy family man anymore. Almost instantly he became cruel, detached and completely void of emotion for either me or D. He went full force into the affair in my face and D's while living under the same roof with us. It was excruciating and was done with a level of disregard that is appalling. OW left her H and three children and the two of them went fully back to teenagers, drinking, partying, traveling and going to hotels as much as possible. I used to drive home with D and right on the road to our house, would be their two vehicles side by side at the hotel. I would drive my traumatized daughter home with shaking hands, go in the bathroom and vomit from the shock and devastation, then make her dinner and try to comfort her, do the laundry, pay the bills...and leave the porch light on for him... For my sanity and survival, I had to detach. I was not going to follow them, ask questions or torment myself any more than he was already tormenting me. And I was not going to give OW fodder for her gossip with our mutual friends. Seven months into the madness, I asked him to move out. I was sick of the "prince" sitting on the guest room bed all day, eating all the junk food he could buy (can we say regression?), chatting away on the internet, then showering only to go see OW--never a word or consideration for me or D. Our home was a tomb and D and I were the walking dead. He was either going to take us into the abyss with him or I had to cut him and OW loose. D and I cannot be subjected to abuse.
He left in January 2011 with no goodbye to D or me, no forwarding address, nothing. I could have contacted him by cell phone or email, but I didn't. I would have crawled on bloody nubs at that point before I would ask him for help. Perhaps it was shortsighted of me not to try to engage him, but I had no more energy for monster and was not going to be the beggar in my own marriage and life. H transfers money twice per months, but otherwise is not in touch, nor am I. OW's H divorced her and she now has an apt. with her kids halftime. H is still living with a male colleague, to my knowledge. I have no idea if he and OW are still together, but assume so or that he is happily playing the field. A year after BD, I learned that OW was not the first or only adultery. I know of at least three and there are probably more. BD2 was equally brutal as I found out that the other close friend in my life, my biggest support and closest ally after BD, was indeed a prior adultery partner. Can you imagine? My confidante for the year since BD?
H is now moving forward legally and I am in the throes of legal paperwork. He knew that I wanted to save our marriage, but he has not shown signs of movement through the tunnel nor any desire to connect except to separate or divorce (Ironic, huh?). I could make an effort but I don't and I don't think it would be appreciated or reciprocated. He is too weak to see a way out of the mess he has created. His mode of operation, is to run from his messes rather than do the work to face and fix them. Even his child holds no incentive for him.
Maybe the NC has made matters worse but frankly, what could be worse than what he has done? I am coming to the conclusion that there seems something intrinsically "off" about those who go through MLC. They are often conflict avoiders, or compartmentalizers, poor communicators, or they don't connect deeply or authentically with people, lack empathy or intimacy (emotional), are self-centered or narcissistic, immature, need immediate gratification, are weak of character, will lie to avoid consequences, blame others to avoid accountability, or all of the above. And lest we too become avoiders and deniers, we have to see and name the truth. If we still wish to stand, that is our choice, but we at least owe it to ourselves not to paint a fictitiously rosy picture in order to run from the fear that the story we created of our life, spouse and marriage, was perhaps, in large part, an illusion.
For me, NC has been critical to my sanity and instrumental in providing the distance and time that provided the clarity. It is still very painful and I grieve, but to also endure H and my "friend" callously carry on their adultery and mockery of my family, friendship and marriage, in my face, is not something I can do. I may always ask "what if" I had worked to pave the way, but I did for awhile to no avail. And I think I would equally question the authenticity and longevity of a return that I had to initiate, cultivate and sustain alone, as H has always expected me to take care of everything. That isn't the kind of relationship I want. I want a man--a full grown, confident, strong, intelligent, funny, man of integrity and positive action. A selfish angst-filled pubescent doesn't cut it, and NC has solidified that realization.
I don't want to discourage anyone with a vanisher from standing, contacting, maintaining hope or paving the way, but I do believe there are circumstances in which NC is a saving grace even for extended periods. I would not have chosen MLC as the way to personal development, but it has brought tremendous lessons nonetheless and an awareness that all any of us can do sometimes is ride the waves and pray we don't drown.
May each of you receive the happy ending you deserve whether it comes wrapped in the original package or something better,
Phoenix
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Sadly with a vanisher there really isn't anything to write about. The few times mine surfaces it shows he is still lost in replay. Mine spent the last two+ years trying to make it so he couldn't come home. I believe they do this on purpose so they just pass the blame. I often wonder if out of sight out of mind holds for them, I doubt it, the vanishing is just avoidance. In all sense I am a vanisher too now, I don't reach out to him, I was just getting hurt more and more and paving the way was useless. Now I just do what I want when I want and live my life as he is in all sense gone. I miss him and I believe I will always feel that void where he once walked. To me all the good he once was has been washed away. Having a vanisher is hard, my only relationship with him is one in my head, I fear that once I let go of the hurt and sorrow there will be nothing left.
Much love to all of you, all we can do is rebuild our lives, let them rot, enjoy our children, friends, family and heal. We have all the time we need to do this, time is on our side not the vanishers.
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Phoenix, I'm sorry for your pain.
I also feel that it got to the point where I had no choice.
I do think for some on here there is a choice. I advise against except when there is severe cake eating.
Mercury,
I too know there is not much to say. Still, I cycle. For me it's hard.
I was so in love with the man I married and was hoping for a life with him.
The life I have now has big holes in it that I can only fill for moments at a time. I really have no desire for anyone else, yet the loneliness/emptiness gets to me from time to time.
For me, the thing that was most important in life was who I spent it with. I loved doing things for my H. Now it's just me and the cat. Not quite the same.
For years I believed he was coming home. Now I don't feel that anymore. I feel he is struggling, but more likely than not is on a path that won't cross mine again.
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loveisntweakness,
I understand your feels and have felt them too, over and over again. After bomb drop for me I was seeing a counselor and he keep saying I can't tell where you begin and he ends. He was right we where so intertwined and it has taken me years to find myself and I have holes too. They will fill in time, just as yours. We have been force to let go of not just our marriages but our dreams too, which is what makes this specially hard but they are just men and we give them too much credit. We made them special with our love for them. In the beginning I didn't think I'd laugh ever again, that the sun would rise but it did, life continues on, not in the direction that we all though but in a different way.
I believed mine would come back for a long time, in July it will be three year since BD. I don't anymore, I don't see how, he would have to face all the destruction and pain he has caused, he would have to become a bigger person then he ever was back when he loved me. We all cycle, we all feel bad and we all bounce back up, never be hard on yourself.
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New thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3368.0