Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Standing in Patience on November 12, 2012, 09:04:11 PM
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C'mon, aren't your curious? Petraeus - CIA, hi profile, risking reputation for an affair, narcissism, younger woman, etc. Not to mention the incredible damage to spouses, family members, trust of your country and fellow human beings.....Your thoughts? MLC or not? Maybe not - Petraeus is said to wanting to try to repair his relationship with his W.
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It makes me sick to hear another one. And she is married as well.
Yet some people think that he should not need to have resigned over this.
I feel sorry for his wife of 37 years and for her husband. The damage that they have done for their selfishness...yet I wonder....how will my MLCer see this? Can he relate? Probably not.
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They can't relate. During this time my H has been confronted by someone who said that he was just like someone else who did something along these lines, and his only response was "I don't like to see myself that way".
They honestly don't see themselves as doing the same thing; it's like what is said about the fog -- the fog is there because if they really looked clearly at what they are doing they'd be so horrified they couldn't cope. It's the only way they can justify their actions.
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"After being married for over 37 years, I showed extremely poor judgment by engaging in an extramarital affair. Such behavior is unacceptable, both as a husband and as the leader of an organization such as ours," Petraeus said in a statement Friday.
This seems to say that David knows that he has done wrong - terribly, horribly wrong. "Poor judgement", recognizing his own behavior, husband, etc. The hurt to his family, extended family and friends hasn't been acknowledged here but we know that there is more that COLLATERAL damage here to assess, deal with and repair. I hope David and Holly have the strength to move toward repair their relationship - of course, it could take years.
Often I think it's the spouse that has to show the strength of character, have integrity that gets the couple through. Too many, have thrown in the towel. What's a year long affair compared to 37 years???
Gotta make you wonder when if he thought about it further, he wouldn't be surprised that the CIA and FBI organizations might be forced to get involved. Both affair partners should have been smart enough to KNOW this. :o
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Sounds like a "normal" affair to me... when exposed, it ends, with both offenders realizing what they stand to lose...
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Yes, I agree. A "normal" affair.
From what I've read, the affair between Petraeus and Broadwell ended some four months ago. Petraeus never left his wife to be with Broadwell and he certainly is putting forth conciliatory sounding language in his resignation statement.
The politician who was a true MLCer in recent years was Mark Sanford, former governor of South Carolina who ran off, literally, to be with his Brazilian OW. In June, 2009 he was missing for 6 days(!) and his wife claimed not to know where he was. When he resurfaced it seems he'd been spending the time with his OW in Brazil and he made a public statement about it talking about how "in love" he was with OW. Definitely MLC script!
Sanford's wife was no stander, although she did say publically she thought her H was having a MLC. She filed six months after Sanford's announcement about the OW. Sanford and his wife had four young boys and had been married for some time.
Sanford's wife wrote a book about the experience. In August, 2012, Sanford announced his engagement to the OW.
Couldn't be more classic. Petraeus' affair sounds nothing like this.
But hey, is there something about physicians' spouses? My H's OW was the wife of a doctor when she met my H. She left her husband, eventually divorcing him, six months after meeting my H and, of course, they're still together.
Petraeus' lover, Paula Broadwell, H is also a physician and this new woman who's been identified, Jill Kelley, the woman who Broadwell sent the jealous "threatening emails" to, which started the whole FBI investigation, is also the wife of a doctor!
TMHP
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They can't relate. During this time my H has been confronted by someone who said that he was just like someone else who did something along these lines, and his only response was "I don't like to see myself that way".
They honestly don't see themselves as doing the same thing; it's like what is said about the fog -- the fog is there because if they really looked clearly at what they are doing they'd be so horrified they couldn't cope. It's the only way they can justify their actions.
This in a nutshell. The CIA dude sounds like a man intoxicated by his power and privilege and didn't think he'd get caught. Hubris.
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Doctors work long hours, and have their concentration so deeply in their work, they present their spouses opportunity. That's my take, anyway. For this sitch, I agree the General seems to be just drunk on power, but I wonder about his affair partner. She has a lot of the earmarks of borderline personality, seems obsessed with proving herself. I don't know if that leans more to MLC than to BPD, but I guess that depends on what she was like before.
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From what I heard there were hefty financial benefits for the biographer [is that what they call it now? ;D] But apparently she was a source of information for other journalists so she was really feathering her own nest. She fits BPD tho.
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It is hard to tell if it is MLC or not. Not all MLCer leave the spouse. In his position he would have to say what he said. Most likely someone even wrote him those words. He does seem to have forgotten than the head of the CIA can get caught. And that a former lover may not be very pleased with a new woman taking place. Agree with Ready2, doctors work long hours, leaving their spouses vulnerable.
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This particular horrific situation reminds me of the NASA pilot... the one that drove hundreds of miies with adult diapers on. Obsessive, driven, and perhaps on a mission (hmmm space and army missions).
Maybe it's someone who has a "give all they can give mentality". No normalcy here. I agree - BPD women in both the NASA and CIA situation. Just because your smart doesn't mind you get a free ride and not have emotional, perhaps deepset "issues".
I believe as the days unfold, we will learn there are other issues that both set of affair partners exhibit.
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MLCer's do not relate what they have done to other "cheaters" that arise in the news. I remember my H calling someone else a scum bag on the news one night as we were having dinner before he left home (after his affair started) and he said it with a straight face. My son and I had all we could do to just stare at him. He was bewildered by our response and didn't understand what he had just said, no clue at all.
I don't think Petraeus is in MLC. I think he is a lonely, stressed out, powerful man that spent too much time around this pretty woman. Another business relationship turned very intimate and emails to boot! Oh my!! He told his tale and resigned so that no one could blackmail him.
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I had to giggle, SiP, as sometimes I call OW "Astronaut in Diapers" because of her similar outlook. ;D I think in both cases it proves where these women may have been extremely driven career and competition-wise, they were on the other side of the pendulum emotionally arrested in development to a ridiculous extent. A very hard lesson for both in balance, I'm sure.
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I think in both cases it proves where these women may have been extremely driven career and competition-wise, they were on the other side of the pendulum emotionally arrested in development to a ridiculous extent.
Think this goes for the men as well.
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I think in both cases it proves where these women may have been extremely driven career and competition-wise, they were on the other side of the pendulum emotionally arrested in development to a ridiculous extent.
Think this goes for the men as well.
Good point! I need to analyze a bit what I've got going on with my stereotypes on that.
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Doctors work long hours, and have their concentration so deeply in their work, they present their spouses opportunity.
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These women may have been extremely driven career and competition-wise, they were on the other side of the pendulum emotionally arrested in development...
Hmmm, don't think either stereotype holds up too well to scrutiny. However hard each of us may work, or however distracted we may be (whether those distractions happened to be job, children, illness...), I don't think any of us feel we 'presented our spouses opportunity'. Yet they took up their opportunities to stray, all the same. That's not our failing. Or so we wish to believe. :-\
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And the saga continues. I suspected correctly (as if we don't know how this stuff unfolds) that there was much more than meet the eye.
These women are in too deep. And the men too. The woman had files she shouldn't have, created a charity that was a sham (notice sham is almost like the word - shame), etc.
FBI man also - shirtless pictures sent. What are these folks thinking?
No matter MLC or not MLC, affairs are devastating and have far reaching damage beyond the two individuals involved. OK, in this case, there are at least THREE sets (one woman was involved with Allen and the FBI agent) of relationships played out in front of the national and international audience. I am embarrassed for all of them. I wonder if they feel any guilt/shame?
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Interesting comment that I just read on infidelity (on IMDB - to quote a strange source). It was comment about the film "The Other Woman" - which my D22 is in the middle of watching.....it seems to be sympathetic toward the alienator....which is ticking me off.
Discussion on the film - has the various posters disagreeing about whether or not the alienator (and the cheater) are bad people or not.
Here is the comment:
Reality Check : The long term success rate for affair couples is less than five percent.
So, for almost all affairs yes that does mean a "good relationship" can't come of it...
Affairs are founded on lies, hurt, neglect, and abandonment.. That's not a great recipe for a new relationship to start on now is it?
If you do the proper research on infidelity you will discover it almost never ends well... Experts like Shirley Glass have been collecting data on it for decades and the results are not anything to be proud of for those who choose to pursue infidelity and abandon their spouse.
People who participate in affairs (both the straying spouse and the predatory third party) have a serious problem : selfishness. If they destroy a home and try to start one of their own that selfishness comes back to bite them in the ass. Affairs almost always result in failure.. It's no less destructive than gambling your life savings away at a casino... yes, you make come home a winner, but 95% of people who take what they have worked so hard for and expose that to excessive risk come home broke and miserable.
Flirt with infidelity and you flirt with a dangerous road... engage in infidelity and you rush down that road at top speed.
Endorsing infidelity and spousal abandonment is not in the best interest of anyone.. The best solution was and is to keep your pants on and work out your problems with your partner.
The recipe for marriage has not changed and won't for a very long time to come.
Thank you, wqf. Great comment!
limitless
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Article about Petraues affair. Interesting, I've never heard these three things mentioned together?
http://affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/trifecta-petraeus-affair?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email_11-25&utm_source=list_MC&utm_content=hfh-registration&utm_term=link_visible
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Really interesting article, Gallagher. Thank you for posting.
"When the trifecta of opportunity, pride and envy come together, in a moment of intense desire we’ll sacrifice that which we value most. No human being can meet all our needs. Love is a process of give, take, and grace. Even if we’re fortunate enough to marry someone with whom we’re compatible, at best they will only meet 80% of our needs. Love will have to suffer through those needs that aren’t met. But when the trifecta is in place, I’ll sacrifice the 80% to get the 20% that’s missing, only to find myself in a much worse position. "
Think this nails it.
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I don't know what any of this is. It sounds like extremely powerful men who have an powerfully inflated sense of entitlement. That being said, I dare say they are JUST as likely to have an MLC as any other man or woman. Unfortunately, theirs is just a billions times more public.
The one thing that does confuse me though, is how quickly we LBS's are to label the "alienation or OP" BPD or narcissistic, yet God forbid if anybody were to "suggest" that their MLCer's had such afflictions!!!! Why is that? What makes the two so different in our minds?
The truth is, whatever these people are afflicted with, they are hurting innocent people. No matter who they are, however powerful or not, they are hurting innocent people.
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The one thing that does confuse me though, is how quickly we LBS's are to label the "alienation or OP" BPD or narcissistic, yet God forbid if anybody were to "suggest" that their MLCer's had such afflictions!!!! Why is that? What makes the two so different in our minds?
I think it's right in the label. A narcissistic personality disorder has a fairly clear psychiatric definition; so does borderline personality. They're life-long; pretty much from the point of adult personality development. People can develop 'traits' of these personalities later in life, but usually transiently, and that doesn't really earn them the label.
We've known our spouses for a long time. So we generally can say with a clear head and heart that they didn't have a personality disorder beforehand. This behaviour appears new (and therefore we hope, transient!). However the alienators drop into our lives in medias res, and we have no idea who or how they were before - so we have no hesitation in labelling them ("Hey, I get a feeling of negative transference from the OW so she must be BPD!!"). In fact we often have no idea, nor do we usually want to know the OP's well enough to get insight into their actual personalities. Convenient stick to beat 'em with, though. ???
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EXACTLY osb! We WANT to hate the OP, we want a reason to be able to hate them! We don't mind them having a "life time" disorder! In fact it would be nice if they did, as they would have a life time of hell and their DISORDER generally made sure they had if not an unpleasant life, but a chaotic, unsatisfying life.
We definitely don't WANT our spouse to have such a thing, as he might not ever come out of it. Plus, truly, we don't want to see them "like this" the rest of their lives. That would just be sad. Even if they NEVER returned to us, remaining in this state is beyond our imagination.
I think the middle is where a lot of this stuff is sorted out. I think even in couples that reconcile, I believe there is a "middle". Early returners, can prevent an LBSer from "getting through" their entire load of "junk". Whether they are with you or not, sorting through how a friend betrays and abandons (even if they never leave home, emotionally they abandon you) someone they love, requires a lot of processing.
Nothing easy about any part of this! Nobody has it any better or worse then the other. If we let it, this has to be good for us. Without a doubt we have into places we would never have done so, IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED. That's a good thing, ISN'T IT???
Ahhhhhhhhhh, I don't know!
hugs Stayed
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Without a doubt we have into places we would never have done so, IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED. That's a good thing, ISN'T IT???
No, not really. Why would it be a good thing to visit the places we have visited? ... Wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy (if I had one). There is the growth issue but I think we would grow anyway. Maybe slowly, maybe in a nicer way, but we would.
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I can't speak on your behalf AnneJ, but I can speak on my own. I know for a fact, my life went on without too many changes until this happened. I am convinced that if this had not occurred, my h and I would probably still be doing exactly what we had been doing for a good number of years. I know I had come to the conclusion that MARRIAGES of duration, simply became like our's had.
I have talked to many people who also believe that they would not have CHANGED within themselves, if this had not happened. I apologize I was not SPEAKING on your behalf or anybody else, just my own and some others that I know.
hugs Stayed
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My life, relationship with husband before we were married and marriage had many, many changes. Too many perhaps… After BD and me back home is the last ones have been the years of least change in my whole life. In fact, it had become boring. He keeps clubbing, I keep looking after my bedridden grandmother. Hardly any change, hardly anything new to learn…
As for the changes within myself… Whatever they may be, I consider them very small (in the grand order of things) and they have not turned me into a better person. So, of course, somewhere in this I’ve failed… Or maybe I just preferred the previous version of me…
The few real life people I know who have had MLC and left the spouse, did not reconciled. I don’t manage to notice much change in them, except that the husband (the cheater) tries and tries and tries to find someone to settle with in a relationship and never manages. The wives remarried. Also, the husband’s keep saying leaving the first wife was the biggest mistake of their lives.
But I’m opened to in the future be able to say: this was the best that happened to me (us? ??? ???)… So far it wasn’t and I would be lying if I said it was.
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Stayed I agree with you 100%. I too know that I would still be plodding on just the way we were before this happened. I certainly would not have grown like I have since H left.
We do get forced, drop kicked, whatever you wish to call it, into our own search for self, but I can hand on heart say I am truly happy with who I am becoming, and grateful for the gift of time.
The pain is immense that we all go through but that has also made me a far stronger person. I have become more forgiving and I have learnt I can control anyone elses happiness or life choices other than my own!
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Me too, hope... and I can't say that I wanted to do this, nor did I jump into the fray very willing. The end result was so unexpected... but I can honestly say, I am proud of what came out the other side.
Hugs Hope... Stayed
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Seconded again stayed!! I was not too willing to begin with, but I have a new found confidence, I had become a shadow of my former self before this happened! I am know enjoying finding me and taking up old hobbies that I let slip to please others!
(((Hugs))) to you
Hope xx