Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: 2.roads on March 15, 2013, 01:08:53 PM
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I am facing a HUGE dilemma right now...whether or not to stay in the home that H and I built together and shared for 17 of our 22 years together.
He is pushing ahead with the divorce and, because I have been a SAHM without an income, I cannot afford to buy out his share of it (not that he would have sold it to me anyway, as he firmly believes that this is HIS house).
But he has magnanimously offered to allow me to "rent" it from him after he buys out my share within the next couple of weeks. So, in essence, my husband of 22 years will become my not-so-pleasant landlord.
I am at a real crossroads here: part of me wants to stay as this is MY home too...despite what H thinks...and it would be nice not to have to uproot D15 from her home and school. Also...rental housing in this area is scarce and tends to be pricey....
BUT...I am at a point where I strongly believe that I am going to be "stuck" from moving foward in my healing process if I stay...especially under the conditons of H being the landlord and his contemptful attitude towards me. I also am afraid that taking on too much in regards to care of the house, is going to be a drain on me while dealing with the health issues that I have....
H is still firmly entrenched in replay with OW. I KNOW he will NOT do anything more than the bare minimum as landlord and it may sound peevish....but it burns me to no end being treated as his tenant after being a faithful wife and devoted mom for 22 years....
MY QUESTION: what have you done as far as staying in the marital home or moving?
If you stayed...did you eventually get past the emotions that living in the home of your marriage stirs up...?
If you left...did you find that helped you heal emotionally? And if you have children, how did they handle it?
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2.roads, your situation is certainly a dilemma. It seems to be me your decision does not only affect you but you have to weigh this against the lives of your children. None of this is easy and certainly not fair. My heart goes out to you because of the situation your H has put you in with your living situation.
This being said, I doubt I am the most qualified to answer this question as I do not have children, and when my H and I parted ways we were renting a home. So, technically I haven't shared your similar experiences with the exception of having a cheating MLCer who wants a D.
What I can tell you is this: I am SO very relieved I moved into my own place and moved out of the marital home. This is MY house and he is not welcomed into it without my expressed permission. He is like a vampire! He is not allowed to cross the threshold of my home unless I grant him permission. To this date, he has NEVER been invited to my house and I doubt he ever will be.
There are reasons for this line in the sand. While we are still married the marital home is seen as "his" even if he abandoned it to go be with the 4-timing serial cheater. Unless we have a separation agreement, he would be allowed legally to come into the home at his pleasure. I did not like this freedom and wanted to have my own sanctuary free from his physical and emotional intrusions. I personally could never have my H be my landlord. He would always be able to use the excuse to gain entrance into my personal space as he "tends to the care" of the home. I know I would never be comfortable or at ease with this situation. I am grateful for the quiet enjoyment of my new house. I choose not to let him see how I live or how my life operates. He put the needs, desires and wants of the OW before mine so I believe he will never be privileged to share a square inch of my house even if it is just to pick up a left behind item of his. I make him meet me in a public place and I give him whatever is his. I know with children you cannot have this arrangement, so I cannot even begin to think how difficult this situation can and will be for you and your kids.
All I know is I am healing. I am able to move on without him because he is without me and my personal space is without him. I have NO idea what my future will bring but for now this is what works for me. I also have made it crystal clear to him that I have NO desire to ever visit his house. I believe we have no business sharing these private sanctuaries for two very different reasons: for me it is to have a safe haven away from him to heal and become whole; for him it represents his new life with the OW and a painful reminder of what he gave up in order to gain her. I have no desire to be part of it. I certainly don't want him to be part of my new life. It sounds harsh but I don't trust him physically and this is MY boundary.
I believe you have to make a hard decision but whatever you choose, you will do so in the best interests of yourself and your children. You are a very smart and careful woman. You will know what to do. I continue to pray for you. SG
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I had wondered that many times myself. My h had proposed in our house and the memories where incredible. I felt, at times, that it was a sentimental prison. Then I decided that I felt it was my home...that my h had not been there for a long time and it felt like home to my d4 and I. I was ready to stay but if we would have ended up getting a D...I was also ready to move and have a new beginning. Only you know what is right....besides the memories are you afraid to move because it might mean an ending of your M? Things that I have realized is that you can't be afraid or let your view of your M hold you back from trying new things or doing things for you. You have to do what feels good to you and if it's a new beginning...it doesn't always mean that the doors are permanently closed...they can be reopened later if you even want them to be. So maybe it's time to take a leap for you....it can be a little one. :)
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2.roads,
I too haven't been up in your situation yet. We own a home and still live together. If one of us were to move out, I would want the house sold. I would want a place for a fresh start. I understand not wanting to pull your d from the home. After BD, he said that he wanted to stay together until our youngest graduated from high school. That was 2 years ago.
I think you need to do what your heart tells you. Having him as a landlord could become very stressful.
You do have a tough decision to make. I hope you get the clarity that you are seeking.
Take care
FH
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2.roads I stayed in my house as it was the only home my S10 remembers and he had suffered enough loss when my H left as it was. I am open to having to sell it as its kind of a white elephant, but only if we can stay in the same school district for my son.
We also have horses and other animals so it just makes sense to stay. I sleep in a totally different room and have turned the master bedroom where we used to sleep into a TV/Computer room. 8)
Next we are going to paint some walls. We are making it our own. My mom put 90,000 of her own money down when we bought it so its her house too. More hers and mine than H's. I'm changing things in order to claim it. Kind of like marking my territory. ;D
He chose to leave, not me. Just my 2 cents.
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I'm still in our home, and likely to get a quit claim signed by him if our D pushes through (it is at a total standstill right now). It was very difficult to be here after he left 19 months ago, but I have pushed forward and made it my own, so it will be easy to stay if that's my choice. But I have been looking at properties online and considering other possibilities just in case, so my mindset can easily adapt to the change. I believe the best option for me will make itself known when the time is right, as God has lead me in every other area and won't drop me now. I can definitely see not wanting to be a renter from your H. Just remember home isn't just the four walls, so if you do find the better option is to leave, you will no doubt have somewhere that gives you more peace on the horizon.
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I wanted to add one more thing to consider but forget to write before I took my dog for a walk...
As the sole property manager of our properties, I would give my right arm to keep tenants who took care of the property and paid their rent on time. A cold shiver of pain would go up my spine when I got notice my tenants had to move and didn't want to renew their lease. I always hated having to find new tenants. What is your H's intentions with the house should you move out? Is he planning on moving back in or is he planning on leasing it?
Do you really want to make your H's life easy by being the responsible tenant that he KNOWS you will take care of the property because you essentially believe it is yours and has been yours for the past 17 years? He is acutely aware you will pay rent because you will be afraid of him if you miss a payment. He is acutely aware that you will keep the place clean and not damage it because you have "ownership" of it and may fear his wrath. This landlord/tenant relationship is not just a business relationship but also a personal one and he knows all the buttons to push with you. Maybe he needs to know what it is like to have an empty piece of property for a a month to a few months and he has to take care of it both financially and physically? Maybe he needs to know what it is like to have tenants who complain about everything? Maybe he needs to know what it is like to see his once lovely home be wrecked because of tenants who just don't give a damn?
Do you really want to make his life easy by being a responsible tenant??????
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Hi 2.roads,
I'm sort of in the same dilemma as I need to stay in our location for my son's schooling and can't afford to live around here otherwise. Husband wants to buy me out (not sure how he thinks he'll be able to afford this home without SOMEONE ELSE moving in - he denies this will happen ::) ).
Something that came to mind when reading your post, and something you briefly touched on - he would now be your landlord...without a tenant agreement, what rights do you have if he decides to enter the home, ask you to leave in a moment of monster, sell? Under normal circumstances, your rights would be protected, to a certain extent and it would be an ideal arrangement for you and your daughter. Will you have a written agreement? If he gets monsterish, it would make things very stressful. Anytime I do anything that remotely pi$$es husband off, he threatens me with buying the house out from under me (and by extension, our son >:( ). I hate that he has this kind of "control" over my security of my home but it currently is what it is. What if he has a problem with you GALing, friends over, guests - or even, if it comes to it, you moving on with your life without him?
I really feel for you and your situation. I generally try to stay off husband's radar and let him be, in the hopes he returns that favour...but I'm not always successful in doing that and the fallout is anxiety producing to say the LEAST! BUT at this time, in consideration of my son, it's what I have to do. I'm not very helpful, I'm sorry, but this stood out to me as a possible issue to consider. Take good care!
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Thanks to all for your input!! SO MANY things to consider... being put in this position is just another reason why resentment at my MLCer continues to grow...as HIS crisis and ensuing journey of destruction has forced me to make decisons with neither option being ideal.
Even more so, it puts an additonal strain on D, no matter which option I choose.
If we stay in the home, I KNOW it will take me longer to heal from this...and she has already suffered enough from me not always being strong, emotionally. It's about time she has a mom who is moving past grieving and getting on with life.
But if we move out, she will probably have to start a new school. :(
SF ~ We have a horse (D's) a dog and 2 cats. It won't be easy to find a house with stables around here...not on my budget. So if we move she will have to give up Tucker...her doofy paint gelding. :(
SG~ I completely concur with your assessment that H wants me as a tenant to relieve him of the burden of finding someone trustworthy to rent the house to. He KNOWS I keep it in better nick than he did, even when we were together. And by me "renting" he gets to write off the mortgage payment on his taxes as part of my spousal support. So it would feel like one more way he gets to win at being a scum-bag... >:(
DCD ~ I will definately NOT sign any agreement to rent this house, unless it has provisions in it to protect MY best interests... much like any traditonal lease between strangers. He is always reminding me that his demands are "just business" but as soon as I ask for anything, he sends nasty emails reminding me why I don't deserve to ask for it...making it very personal. But I've learned by now that this is just Monster and I don't back down. I do realize that I will need to be "crafty" in what I include in a lease agreement because my only hope of forcing him to comply is via the legal system.
If I look at it objectively, it may be the lesser of 2 evils for D and I to live here until I have completed my 1 year program at community college.
I have an appointment with my lawyer today...to review the draft of the financial agreement that H's lawyer sent over. I have a feeling that I'll have a clearer direction after that...
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2roads, I stayed. At first, I felt like I was in a prison! Like I was trapped in that house with all the memories of our seemingly happy marriage of 15 years. It was torture and I was looking for every which way to get out.
As time went on, I changed things up a bit in the house (painting, moved furniture, etc) and made it my own. I now love the house and won't move out. However, things are the opposite for me - I was the main bread winner, so I am able to keep paying the mortgage and keep up with the overhead. It wasn't easy at first, but I made it work.
You have to seriously look at the repercussions of this choice to stay and rent the house from your H. He probably won't be in monster forever, however, he could make your life pretty miserable in the meantime.
I do realize that I will need to be "crafty" in what I include in a lease agreement because my only hope of forcing him to comply is via the legal system.
Abosultely! Have something drawn up that protects you (you not being responsible for repainting, carpeting, appliance maintenance, etc.). Is he asking you to put a security deposit down?
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2roads
Stay, Stay, Stay - As far as "renting" from him - NO, NO, NO
As a SAHM mom being thrust into his MLC you will need to protect yourself. A temporary order hearing assigning parental responsibilities, support and maintenance, custody, etc. would be decided at that hearing. Suffice it to say if he has abandoned the family home and parental responsibility the court probably won't look to favorably.
I kept the house, bought my X out, She doesn't like me driving by her house (Than don't live across from the school) but feels entitled to enter my house as her whims see it. Its always some minor thing involving the boys so I can't lock her out. This behavior also helps me to know that the fog is still hanging on her.
Peace on your journey little sister
Mac
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2roads,
I have a rental properties in both NS & NB so I may be able to provide you with some practical insights. Residential tenancies in NS are governed by the Residential Tenancies Act; attached is a summary of what you need to know. It is a statute requirement that the landlord provide the tenant with a copy of the Act within 10 days of signing the lease so that you know your legal rights.
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/reho/yogureho/fash/fash_007.cfm
A link to the Act is contained within this summary. All residential tenancies must also use the standard lease form as put forth by the province. Additional forms such as move in inspection reports can be found on the provincial tenancies board website.
As a landlord, your H would be required to give you a minimum of 24hrs notice before he can enter "occupied" portions of the property - ie the house. Upon giving notice to vacate the premise, no notice is legally required (although is is a common courtesy to do so). The landlord can access unoccupied portions of the property at any time.
The landlord is also entitled to have building "rules" over any above the statutory clauses - ie no smoking rules, or pet restrictions etc. Should you rent, please ensure you know of any additional rules in advance.
Also important is that the landlord is not required to rent you the entire property.For instance if you rent the house, it may not necessarily include any outbuildings or acreage. In many cases garages, parking spaces or pasture land can be rented extra and/or to other parties.
From a tax perspective, your H is only able to claim financing interest charges and maintenance costs as deductions but he must also claim the rent revenue as income.
From a personal perspective, I bought out my W's share of the matrimonial home when she moved out. That was just over a year ago. I did it mostly to provide my kids with some stability during the difficult transition of their mother leaving. Three weeks ago I lost my job when my company downsized; I have decided to sell my home. I love my home, it is filled with so many happy memories, but those memories are also constant reminders of another time. Who knows, maybe this is part of God's plan for me. My eldest S is joining the Forces this year, my D will likely be going away to university next year. This leaves me only my S13 (half time) in this great big house. I will move on - I have to; my W's actions are killing me on the inside. I'm not sure whether I will stay in NS or move to Toronto and stay with brother 1 or move to Europe and stay with brother 2.
If you have any specific questions concerning leases, just PM me.
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2.roads,
This is such an emotional topic, I can share what I have done.
At BD I wanted to keep things stable for my 2 children which meant keeping them in their school and home and in touch with as many friends and family as possible. My subsequent reading has show that this strategy has less negative impact on children as they begin to navigate their parent's separation. I simply wanted to try and find some solid ground to build on!
My home is owned on a joint mortgage with my exH. I am unable to get a mortgage for the same amount because I am self employed and the mortgage market is tough here in the UK! Couple that with a HUGE default which is registered against my exH at my address I am unable to get another mortgage until I am free of him financially, which will be when the joint mortgage is repaid.
So, as part of the financial settlement within the divorce, I have confirmed my share of the equity split from when our house sells. As part of the divorce I agreed to put my home up for sale. So my home has been up for sale for almost 18 months and the market isn't exactly rocking right now. This was tough going to sort at the time but it means that as my exH crisis has progressed I have not had to go back and renegotiate with him (he is still very much in crisis).
So my children and I live in our home as we have always done, sleepovers, parties, get togethers etc! We have moved furniture around, replaced old furniture, redecorated and jiggled things up a bit - we have done all of these things as a family i.e. we have redefined our family decision making process (which has been hilarious and has shown how boys and girls are so very different).
Unseen by my children I have cleared out cupboards and sorted things out so that when we move I will be paying to move stuff we use and love now rather than my ex's junk! It has been cleansing and cathartic to reclaim our home for us as we choose to live our lives now.
2.roads, have you discussed this with your daughter. I have been so very impressed with how my 2 have handled the changes in their lives. I chose not to spring any nasty surprises on them and have been open, honest and age appropriate with them both about why we will be moving etc. They seem to have taken things in their stride and both often comment that our home is happier and calmer with their Dad gone.
2.roads, I hope that talking this issue through has helped you gain an insight into the choices you have - it amazed me to read the advice Thirsty Duck gave you _ wow who'd have thought that you'd 'meet' a landlord with properties in your neck of the woods!
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If you stayed...did you eventually get past the emotions that living in the home of your marriage stirs up...?
Yes I am already past the emotions that living on my own in our marital home stirs up. At first I didn't think I'd be able to do it, but I eventually (after my H had been gone well over 6 months) moved the furniture all around in ways we never had it before and in different rooms so this configuration reminds me nothing of our days together. I replaced pictures of us with ones that are of people who have supported me throughout his MLC. Now it's just my place.
Honestly though, those first several months were torture, I have to admit. Time is what it takes, and there are no shortcuts. The pain will subside after enough time.
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As a SAHM mom being thrust into his MLC you will need to protect yourself. A temporary order hearing assigning parental responsibilities, support and maintenance, custody, etc. would be decided at that hearing. Suffice it to say if he has abandoned the family home and parental responsibility the court probably won't look to favorably.
Hi 2.Roads, are you negotiating with your H or through attorneys? Are you oufactors on your side. The courts could decide, under these circumstances to let you reside in the home until your D graduates so she does not have to be uprooted. Then, the home could be sold, or better yet the court should let you keep it for "services rendered" as wife and mother and as partial payment for damages from what your H has done ( I can dream, right?). As I've been saying on my own thread, if these spouses/parents want to leave, that is their prerogative, but then life needs to be left in tact for the rest of the family. To have a legal process that supports a person leaving spouse, children and responsibilities with the expectation that said spouse has not also forfeited some of their rights to assets is absurd. What ever happened to "you can't have it both ways?"
Really check this out legally before you make any decision or agreement.
Best!
Phoenix
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I think this is such a hard decision to make. I am currently living in the home, and have been for almost 4 years since BD. I am however, planning my "getaway" and I will explain that more in a minute as to the why.
Quick background:
We had been together 16 years at BD and not legally married. He chose to leave the house after I threatened to leave him 2 years ago. He is now living at OW's home. He tells me that he is "staying" there, not living there. He has been having an affair with same OW for almost 4 years straight.
So for almost 4 years now...this man has come and gone as he pleases in this house because he pays ALL the bills, even now. I feel like I am like a tenant and he is my landlord, yet this landlord does not collect rent. Even though HE abandoned the family, he still acts like he is part of it. He has spent most holidays here at the house, without an invitation from myself. I fought long and hard to keep this man away but because I have two teenage daughters who wanted their father here in their home, I lost that battle. I literally gave up trying to keep him out of the house. It has NEVER worked and only caused me grief. There were days where I wouldn't even come home from work if I knew he was at the house. The only way I knew he was at our home was if I did a slow drive by and saw his truck parked out front, and then I would go park in a grocery store parking lot and wait it out for an hour till he would leave...well that got to be ridiculous so I would just go home and then try to ignore him as he sat on the couch with my daughters while they watched a movie.
Which leads me to the WHY I am leaving the home.
I have never been given a chance, in 4 years.... to heal, without seeing this man almost EVERY single day. It's like having a really deep cut...that is constantly whacked on so it becomes infected and festers and never heals, day in and day out. I have read tons of posts on this forum about staying in the home..but for me...I can't do it. I can't keep watching him leave every night to go back to OW's house. I have to say that I am not as emotional about it and have detached pretty well for the most part...but I need to get myself out of this type of living arrangement. I know deep down that this is not healthy for my emotional well being. His main excuse to get into the home is always about the kids. I feel like he has manipulated all 3 of us into believing that he has a right to come into this home whenever he feels like it. Mainly he tells me that it's HIS HOUSE because he pays for everything. Even though I had been SAHM for 7 years with the kids and pretty much full time caregiver/parent while he has worked out of state, for the other 9 years. I am now 100% full time caregiver , while he only makes "visits" to see his girls. This is not court ordered, this is HIS choice! He does NOT want his girls overnight, unless he plans a vacation and then he takes them out of state somewhere.
Anyway...I know my situation is different as I have no grounds legally to keep him out of the house. My name was never put on the mortgage, something I look back at now and kick myself for...but at the time I was a stay at home mom and figured that I would never qualify for the loan with no income...It came back to bite me in the butt. The crazy part is that he does not want me to leave the home, and has no problem taking care of the entire bill to keep me here. Emotionally...can't do it. He has no idea what my plans are. I tried to tell him about 6 months ago but he didn't want to listen. Like SavingGrace has mentioned...I am making his life SO easy by being the responsible tenant. He doesn't have to worry about the house while he is off playing. He has a full time baby sitter, and full time dog sitter, full time pool person and I keep the house nice because essentially it's my house too right? He doesn't have to worry about bad renters, or someone trashing his house, or someone smoking in it or breaking anything. His kids are living in HIS home so he doesn't have to worry about what type of environment his kids are living in. He gains access pretty much everyday whenever he feels like it...he still carries the housekeys on his keychain. I NEVER get the full privacy that I deserve. He always has an idea of what I'm doing, how I live, how my life operates. He even has the kids asking me "where are you going" when I get into my car, because their father has primed them to not let me out of their sight without an explanation of what I'm up to. I will never be okay living like this. I have come to that conclusion... so for now, I am paying off some credit cards that are in my name...trying to pay off my car, working full time, saving money and then I am leaving. I still love him and I am standing to a degree....but I am not staying in the house...If he ever wants to make anything work...he can come figure out how to get me back.
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Well- my story might be different from others I just returned to the forum after trying to repair the damage that was done but I couldn't do it alone.
Three years ago approx 2 weeks after the divorce was final ( I had signed off everything because he threatened my life) ExH moved his floozy into the house we had bought together. This destroyed my D's ( and myself) We had live in the home for 10 years before he blew his gasket.
Due to some circumstances the girls and I moved back in after the OW moved out.
Honestly I never liked the house to begin with but it was better than the one we had before. But moving back in after she had been there was not a healthy thing for me to do.
Anyway I did finally talk him into listing it-not that I was going to make any money but the taxes are ridiculous there is no mortgage. I did this trying to protect the investment for the future of the girls as he is unemployed. With the money it might generate he could easily buy a smaller house in an area where the tax rate was better and maybe have money left over for a rental apartment somewhere.
I invested in a rental with the money I got from him when the divorce was final AND I was giving him all the money I had extra to pay the bills at the main house. So I know what you mean about tenant and landlord.
Now he's kicked me out again and I moved into an apartment not far from the house.
I'll tell you something the memories of what happened up there (whether I was there or not) I do not want. No amount of remodeling or paint or anything would get me to live there again. He could email me tomorrow and tell me he'd give it to me and HE'D leave and I'd rather pitch a tent than to live there.
But everyone has a different experience and sometimes the answers aren't clear.
It's been 3 years almost to the very day I moved out the last time and BELIEVE me I am NOT going back again.
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I am staying in the marital home and yes, I've gotten over the feelings that it stirs up. I changed furniture around, put up different pictures etc. I've been fortunate, mainly because part of my H's running is running from any ties and responsibilities.
We're underwater on our mortgage. My H in his MLC can only focus on short-term.
So to him, signing a quitclaim deed to relinquish all rights to me was smart. This is a man who is a few years from 40 and now has no investments. No property. No retirement account. No savings. Not even health insurance. But in his teenager's mentality, since he stopped paying toward our mortgage his cashflow is strong so he's feeling invincible. And wise. In a few years, if the market starts to recover, is he going to feel wise then? I feel the mother of all facepalms coming on... hehehe.
These types of decisions make him feel free but he is only free of good sense now.