Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Thundarr on May 13, 2013, 05:16:49 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Horney
One of my major influences in psychology is Dr. Karen Horney, a friend and understudy of Sigmund Freud who ended up pioneering the school of Neo-Freudianism along with Alfred Adler. She also began what came to be known as "Feminist Psychology" (not like we think of feminism today, but diverging from Freud's male-centric views). Horney's mother left her father (but never divorced him) when she was young so she grew up in a broken home and I believe this shaped many of her views. Attached is the Wikipedia article detailing her life and touching upon her works, but I encourage everyone to check out her writings and examine her influence on the medical and psychology fields. I titled this thread after one of her concepts surrounding what she termed "neurotic people." Horney believed that neurotic people were like a pendulum who alternated between self-love and self-loathing based upon whether or not they were living up to the standards they felt they "should." The term "neurotic" likely indicated anyone in crisis or going through depression and we as LBSes can certainly relate to both of those, oftentimes for much longer durations than we ever imagined. So, apologies for this thread not being as funny as the MLC Script or even the Bystander Script threads that Kikki started but I think it's important for us all to realize that we are not "different" and that the things we think and feel are very much normal for what we are going through. So, without further ado the first 3 examples of the "LBS Script."
"I should have made more money"
"I should have taken on more responsibility"
"I should have payed more attention to her/ him"
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We all think this of ourselves at some point in this mess,but it doesnt matter what we should have done or shouldnt have done,they would still find something to blame us for their crisis.
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Exactly MC, I don't want to focus on what they say to us but rather what we say to ourselves. Horney believed that the key to overcoming the neuroses was to challenge the thinking errors that we are so reactive to. So by coming forward with the negative things we all tell ourselves hopefully we can ellicit change in each other through "mirror work" and accepting that these things we have told ourselves simply aren't true. Here's a couple more that I would bet others are guilty of:
"I should have been in better shape"
"I should have dressed differently"
"I should have been a better person"
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This is not psychology based and may be off topic, but it seems to fit to me somehow.
This weekend I was talking to a co-worker who happens to be from Fiji. He asked " you know Fiji?" I said, in a way...Paul Gaugin (1848 -1903), middle aged French stock broker, leaves wife and kids to go paint naked Fijian women and have unhibited sex with them.
Then my own words caught up with my brain.
Paul Gaugin may have been undergoing a MLC, this is not new to this particular century.
I now wonder how his wife and five children coped with this.
He died in Fiji of syphilis at 54 years of age.
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There is a thread somewhere more appropriate for this I'm sure, but as you mentioned Gaugin I'll put in Charles d!ckens.... left wife and many children to take up with an actress, blamed it all on wife.... very interesting biography.
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REALLY off-topic, but I'm snickering that the name d!ckens gets caught by the censor. Hey, we have to find humor in life somewhere!
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Since I started the thread I'm going to be a bit naughty:
d!ckens
kittywillow
cockerel
$h!tezu
lass
class
bastardize
Yes, I'm a dork. LOL
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I try not to should all over myself, but here's a few I did:
I shouldn't have been so complacent
I should have been more tolerating of H's foul moods.
I should have seen this coming.
I should have taken the "big lie" told 5 years ago and used that as a warning sign.
I should be moving on by now.
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Thanks for sharing this Thundarr - it's very interesting.
This jumped out at me:
The goals set out by the neurotic are not realistic, or indeed possible. The real self then degenerates into a "despised self", and the neurotic person assumes that this is the "true" self. Thus, the neurotic is like a clock's pendulum, oscillating between a fallacious "perfection" and a manifestation of self-hate.
Seems like a pretty accurate description of what our MLC-ers go through.
:) x
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I actually caught myself doing this today after having a down day.
Should have been a better wife
Should have been a better lover
Should have payed attention to him more
Should have tried to do his hobbies with him
Its funny how they find your weakness and pick it apart and blame you for those things.
Thundarr youre not a dork
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I’m a complete disaster of a LBS, ::) ::) ::) there is nothing I think I should have done more as far as the marriage is concerned. I just thing I should had divorce right after OW1 was made public.
Neurotic people always reminds me of Woody Allen. MLCers are excluded from being neurotic, right? Delusional is not part of neurotic disorder... And if there is one thing MLCers are is delusional...
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Woody Allen is a complete nut job.
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Woody Allen is a complete nut job.
Yep he is... and he manages to be both, neurotic and an MLCer... :o :o :o
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Its so disgusting too.I always thought of him a just being an eccentric screwball.Then he sleeps with and marries his adopted D.How sick is that?
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Not his, Mia Farrow's adopted daughter. He had adopted children but she was not one of them.
Still a very messed up thing. Weirdly they're still together. Think he never spend as much time together with a woman...
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I have some shoulds but they're less about feeling guilty about what I didn't do for my H and more guilt about what I didn't do for myself:
I should have never put up with H's bad behaviour all those years
I think that pretty much covers it ;D
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The only shoulds that haunt me are:
I should be over this.
I should have more self discipline.
I should be more ( fill in the blank)
I should have learned/known better.
I often feel the part that is trying to be good/kind/gentle to me, is at war with the part that wants to be harsh and judgmental with me.
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Hm, Thundarr, sounds like I have the female version of a few of yours...
"I should have worked less"
"I should have taken on less responsibility and let him experience his own problems until he solves them by himself"
"I should have paid more attention to him and realized he was slipping slowly into depression"
But also:
"I should have just let him rant about his work every evening, just repeating that he is doing fine and always will and that I love him anyway"
(which I also always believed), and not continue to brainstorm on what he could do to fix his 'problems' that aparently according to him now were none, besides that of course he never ranted (he did, I have witnesses, he has a reputation of being a big ranter - though he got me so brainwashed in the beginning I really started to doubt)
"I should not have left him to work in another county, I should not have let him go on "guys drinking nights " (turned out they weren't...)" maybe insisted to go with him? No idea what, always thought guys needed space (as I do so that was fine with me).
In fact I should have been more controlling, suspicious, less trusting.... don't know what. Still surprised about that one as I am now blamed for being controlling for anything I do. Wonder how I could have been less controling and less giving space than I was...
"I should have bought more sexy underware (and loads of other things, gone more traveling, restaurants, a newer car, etcetc)" instead of saving for 'his' house
Anyway, too late for now, or too early if ever...