Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Returned on June 09, 2013, 08:33:10 AM
-
I am a little curious as to others opinions on this. Since BD one of the biggest changes has been the lack of eye contact. Why do MLCers shun eye contact?
-
Below is some insight from RCR on the topic
That lack of eye-contact is part of the script. The ancient Greeks believed the eyes were the window to the soul. You know a person by looking into their eyes. He knows that you know him so well that you will see directly into his soul and know what is going on—his fears, his thoughts, his indiscretions… and looking into the eyes is a way of connecting on an intimate level. LBSs often think their MLCers are avoiding eye contact out of guilt or shame—and they probably are—but they are also doing it because they are afraid of the connection and do not want to be pulled back in. They fear their own lack of will power.
-
Before BD I knew there was something wrong as my H couldn't look me in the face for weeks.
I also know from teaching that if a child cannot look at you when you ask them about homework or anything straightforward like that - there is usually something up and wisdom invariably says guilt. Not always but usually.
What I found fascinating is RCR's comment in one of her brilliant articles that as MLCers become proficient liars they are able to have eye contact again - so true for my situation. But at least I'm a little more guarded now rather than hoping his eye contact is a way of connecting.
I do miss the really proper eye contact from earlier days though when it made you feel safe and protected.
-
Mine cycles through the no eye contact. I have noticed that when he really wants me to believe him and his lies, he stares me in the eyes intently. It is like a stare down. At first it unnerved me. It still does to some extent but I am getting used to staring back just as intently. I have moments of where he can talk to me normally and employ eye contact or I have moments where he cannot look at all in my direction. Those moments are clues that he is up to no good or the running away is starting again.
I truly believe it is a combination of shame/guilt and the fact that he knows that if he looks me in the eye, he will see "me" not the evil person he has made me out to be or maybe he is worried about what I will see in his eyes. At the beginning, there was nothing to see in those eyes. They were just dark.
-
If they look us in the eye we would know they are lying and unhappy. But we still know they are lying and unhappy, so, it is one of those strange things MLCers do.
But RCR article DGU post pretty much says it all.
-
Okay any ideas on how to get eye contact...?
I know this sounds silly
but I am not sure about this "nothing we can do will help" thing
I tend to think it is more like: we haven't figured out how to help....
Somehow I feel if I could get eye contact we could connect better...
-
but I am not sure about this "nothing we can do will help" thing
RCR's blog Influence: Making A Difference
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=360
-
LOTH - I hear you on the trying to help and if we had some form of contact we could connect better.
My spouse has cut off phone contact and only communicates by text (or email if he really is angry at me) with me and the children. He will answer the children if they call, he usually does not answer mine. I know why. My husband and I can solve the world's problems on the phone. He worked so much that this was our main way of communicating during his peak work times. We would talk up to 7 to 10 times a day. I know that he does not call me because we would be able to connect. He does not want that connection right now. I think a lot of it is shame/guilt driven. He has admitted that last fall during his moment of wanting to repair/clarity.
Lack of eye contact too is a way of not connecting.
I wish that more was known or recognized within the medical profession so that there was ways to help those who are in the midst of this crisis. I know the first few individual counsellors I saw did not recognize and just wanted me to get a divorce to save me from this emotional abuse. It was like banging my head on a wall saying that there was something wrong with my husband. He didn't make sense. This was not a bad marriage.
But as you can see from this forum alone - that all different techniques have been used and it just seems like it is time that works. Brutal.
-
Indeed my suspicion is that it is fear of connecting. They are afraid of their own feelings....
-
My H would not make eye contact for the first few months and his eyes would dart wildly around. Now he makes eye contact most of the time. H has changed though, is more certain that we are through.....and he has OW, though he doesn't seem to be manic right now and he usually is when he is with her. One thing my H has.....very constricted pupil all the time. This apparently means either extreme mental stress, or hatred! Something to think about.
-
My W 8 months ago after BD would never look at me , only when she was monstering she would look straight at me and mean looking. She stopped monstering , because I would never react to monster. She would still not make eye contact for a while. Eventually she did and for a period of time she was nice and looking straight at me during conversations, usually when she was trying to manipulate me into thinking that we were not good together in a friendly way. In the past three months or so she will sometimes look away , but when looking straight at me , her eyes are deep black , you cannot see the pupils and they look empty , like almost in somekind of daze. I notice that when in a gathering of friends she is that way only to me , no one else in the room.
-
Hi Long Journey
I was just reading this thread and wanted to chime in.
I saw no eye contact, staring at feet, for a long long time.
It hurt a lot because we'd always had a special eye contact through our lives. Even at a party across the room, I knew when we should start leaving...lol
Well this past 6 mos has been a real change in that.
I do credit the fact that I just leave him alone and treat him like a friend. Occasionally let him know I am sad about this and I think he's going through something so go through it al ready... ::)
Just had a great Christmas where there were cards from him and a lighthouse calendar and more eye contact than I could shake a stick at.
I think they are afraid of that connection and also they are afraid to see their own reflection in our eyes.
More proof that they know they are doing wrong by us and they just can't stop.
Just keep being the soft place to land in case there ever is a need for a landing ::) and carry on doing what you enjoy. ;D
Actually, once I started purposely avoiding eye contact.....he would run around me to MAKE EYE CONTACT. :o :o
haha Just thought of that one. So obvious. as If 'I have to have eye contact and I won't take NO for an answer.'
-
They feel guilty, ashamed, or are lying. IMHO
-
I have to agree with in it, shame guilt and lying to begin with.
The connection is severed the minute we have bd, the rest is about them and what they don't want you to see.
In order not to see it they would actually have to present themselves with paper bag over head cos it's written all over these faces.
Sd
Xx
-
In my case way before BD.
These MLCER's are usually gone quite a while before BD even happens.
WE get blindsided but they are already so far removed that all of this doesn't seem to or even effect them.
This is a really hard concept to grasp. Some may have never been connected to begin with.
-
When I accidentally bumped into mine she turned around and faced the wall for a while like a naughty school girl, she was all dressed up in designer stuff like a teenager and had lost lots of weight but her face looked like she had aged 10 years and she had a sad expression.
I was loading my car at the time in the garden centre opposite our factory and was under a court injunction which she cleverly manipulated me into post bomb (she said she was scared of me,more like she was scared of herself) not to go to the factory,there was a metal fence in between us,she eventually turned around got in her car and made her way to the car park perimeter where the industrial waste bins are kept.
She got out of the car turned her back on me and started taking stuff out of the bins and putting back in and tidying and fussing about in the area all wearing designer clothes and I think she just wanted me to come over and have a go at her so I would be in breach of my injunction.
I was so sick of the sight of her and what she did to me post bomb drop I just drove off and went home,two weeks later I had a solicitors letter saying I was in breach of my injunction and I was harassing her,this was easily defended(at cost to me though) and the matter was brought up some months later in court (about a month before my trumped up injunction ended she took me back to court to try to get it extended) I arrived early at court and she was hiding away in one of the side briefing rooms as she was "scared" my solicitor arrived fashionably late as usual and was met by someone who was not her normal solicitor.
I asked who she was and was told she had hired a barrister (at great cost to extend the injunction)
We sat before the judge and my solicitor handed her barrister my defence statement which she looked at and got up and said to the judge "your honour we have not got a case"yay for me for once in this bizarre movie,the judge recommended because she said she was still"scared" poor thing that she go there by day mon-fir until 3pm and I after this time and all weekend yay for me I was finally getting some justice in this nightmare(I was still under the doctor at this time for depression and anxiety which took almost a year for me to recover enough to start thinking coherently again,no empathy from her she said "there was nothing wrong with me"take a look at yourself dear monster I thought are the time, after bomb drop I had a torrent of spew off her) when we left court I could see her arguing with her barrister ( probably cost £1500) for a few minutes in court) and my solicitor escorted me to my car for my safety not her and I drove past her with for the first time a massive smile on my face yay karma's a b..ch, I enquired while we were outside court why given my defence which was accepted by the judge why my first defence was rejected and I had the injunction in the first place she told me the first time she did not make one as there was insufficient time for her to get one together and I thought to my self what a crock of sh.t have I hired here.
While in court my betraying monster spouse dressed down from usual and acted the victim of the situation, for anyone new to this site do not trust them at all their guilt from what they done is targeted at you and they will destroy you if they can as if your dead they have nothing to feel guilty about anymore and can get on with their erratic lives in fairy land.
Regards Jackolar12
-
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/200912/the-body-language-the-eyes
It's a fascinating subject.
-
Long Journey..Thanks for starting this thread!
Look into their eyes.
People who look to the sides a lot are nervous, lying, or distracted. However, if a person looks away from the speaker, it very well could be a comfort display or indicate submissiveness. Looking askance generally means the person is distrustful or unconvinced.
If someone looks down at the floor a lot, they are probably shy or timid. People also tend to look down when they are upset, or trying to hide something emotional. People are often thinking and feeling unpleasant emotions when they are in the process of staring at the ground.
Some cultures believe that looking at someone in the eyes is a sign of disrespect, or is only done with intimate friends or family, so this could explain why someone is avoiding eye contact with you.
Dilated pupils mean that the person is interested. Keep in mind, however, that many substances cause pupils to dilate, including alcohol, cocaine, amphetamines, MDMA, LSD and others. Don't mistake having a few drinks for attraction.
If their eyes seem focused far away, that usually indicates that a person is in deep thought or not listening.
-
So I have a question and maybe somebody is able to answer it ..
if I look into my husbands eyes -he doesn't connect .
I have read some people refer to it as "dead eye look "- but I'm not sure if that is the right description ? :-\
you know when you usually look at somebody, in their eyes- they connect with you and you can clearly see that they see you .
You interact ,you have a connection .
However with my husband: it looks like he is looking through me or above me or to the side- you cannot connect with them..it is like they are on another level so to speak.
My mother-in-law (who has gone through midlife crises with her late husband) said the exact same thing .
And people who have not gone through this don't understand what I'm talking about..
I just would like to know:
1)where does it come from??
is there a medical and scientific research done on this ?
2)what is the purpose for it?
3)where all those people??
4)Is it protecting them from something (like not feeling the emotional turmoil that there are causing and so to speak not to make him aware of the stuff that they're doing)??
5) is it only apparent in certain stages of the crises and goes away ??
6)And is it really not visible for anybody else but the people who know the true person before the crises ?(like the other woman or man)
Like the other woman or man)
7) is it beer all the time or only during certain circumstances like for example when monster comes out is visible or does it not matter ??
-
Great question
My W too has that same look. I feel I need to call a priest to exercise an evil spirit .
If I do make eye contact it's eary. Dark look in the eyes and a painful facial expression.
Most of the time W can't even look at me. Like too much guilt.
Once in a while when the mania has warn off , you can see pain and regret in their eyes. A glimpse of the person I once knew , only with so much sorrow. Those eyes don't last long
Hopefully you find all your answers Armyspouse
God bless
-
ArmySpouse, I have merge this thread with a previous one on the same matter. If you read back on the previous posts you will find some points of views.
This was taken from DGU's post.
Below is some insight from RCR on the topic
That lack of eye-contact is part of the script. The ancient Greeks believed the eyes were the window to the soul. You know a person by looking into their eyes. He knows that you know him so well that you will see directly into his soul and know what is going on—his fears, his thoughts, his indiscretions… and looking into the eyes is a way of connecting on an intimate level. LBSs often think their MLCers are avoiding eye contact out of guilt or shame—and they probably are—but they are also doing it because they are afraid of the connection and do not want to be pulled back in. They fear their own lack of will power.
And these (in black) are my replies to your questions.
1)where does it come from??
is there a medical and scientific research done on this ? - It comes from the depression. Depressed people tend to have dead eyes. Same is true for addicts and alcolics. The researh can be found on research about depression and addiction.
2)what is the purpose for it? - We don't really know. But is is thought that people loose all interest for life and, therefore, they become dead inside which in reflected, among other things, on the dead eyes.
3)where all those people?? - In la la land, adiction land, alcohol land, depression land. Their souls have left the building. They are an empty shell.
4)Is it protecting them from something (like not feeling the emotional turmoil that there are causing and so to speak not to make him aware of the stuff that they're doing)?? - The drepression does that. The eyes are a sympthom of the depression.
5) is it only apparent in certain stages of the crises and goes away ?? - Yes. But it differs from Mlcer to MLCer. It is mostly a sign of Replay, but during Replay, at least early on, some MLcers still show clear eyes. Then they can swing between dead eyes and clear eyes. Some get the dead eyes at a point in Replay and will only loose them after hitting rock bottom. But dead eyes can still appear during Liminality. They should have fade by Rebirth.
6)And is it really not visible for anybody else but the people who know the true person before the crises ?(like the other woman or man)
Like the other woman or man) - I don't know. It would seems obvious to me that dead eyes are dead eyes no matter if we have, or have not, knew the person before. But even relatives of the MLCer do not seem to notice. Or they do but have no idea what it means.
7) is it beer all the time or only during certain circumstances like for example when monster comes out is visible or does it not matter ?? - After a certain point it does not matter. Monster may even have a little bit of less dead eyes since it is the MLCer feeling some emotion.
-
Mine showed not just the dead eyes of depression, but a much much more horrible look. Like that of a dog being scolded for doing someone wrong, combined with the pain of an animal with its foot freshly caught in a trap, and the jumpiness of someone who was the sole witness to a murder in a back alley. Very unmistakable.
To me, that is the look of demonic oppression of some sort and a defining indicator of MLC. Of course for other people, there are other different factors that contribute to MLC. Mine used to visit temples to get rid of bad luck and was told that he had spirits attaching to him. To me, those pagan rituals to get rid of the spirits caused/compounded the problem. That's why I keep praying for mine and I've seen that it has worked. In fact, I have an inkling that he is on his journey back.
I first saw that look 2-3 months before BD. We were skype-ing and he was on his bed in the dark. We started quarrelling and he started getting that look and spewing nonsense and would not calm down or listen to reason. I even threatened to call his family to inform them of his unbalanced mental state which I thought was a result of work stress.
-
That is so .. Wow..
My thought was that maybe that look is also from what's going on in the brain. I thought exactly about "addiction" of some sort- well the "in love"-addiction he has right now contributes.
According to his family (when he visited them for a weekend (cause they live on the east coast and they dont see him very often also cause his army job and being gone.. I think we see them 1 or 2 times a year max)- they said he was weird and off behaving.. Not himself.. Jittery and nervous and jumpy at times.. Then he disappeared and when back it was better but still not normal. I think he then got his "fix"- her.. On the phone.
He is in reply so that matches perfectly!
And when his mom was here and he came over his eyes were normal that time. So I noticed that too..
When he has them it's when he says those things like "go get a boyfriend I don't care" .. Or "I won't come back"... So makes sense too. Although he has said weird subconscious things too when he was "there" meaning clear eyes..
I thought the actual depression state hits later. But from what you are telling me there is always some of it present in all stages??
-
Yes, there is depression throughout the journey. The actual stage of Depression is unlike anything you have ever seen as to the depth of depression and pain. It was one of the mist awful soul sucking things I have ever seen firsthand.
As to the shark eyes, mine had them as well. It was like looking in to an abyss. I stared and searched for him in there but only saw the demon. Its strange but in the pictures I saw of him taken during that time, most people commented on his "crazy eyes" .
Best, LP
-
Hi I saw those eyes - steel grey holes
So scary I stared into them looking for something -
There was nothing. I had no idea it wasn't only my H
Stay strong but go with your heart
-
Yes, there is depression throughout the journey. The actual stage of Depression is unlike anything you have ever seen as to the depth of depression and pain. It was one of the mist awful soul sucking things I have ever seen firsthand.
As to the shark eyes, mine had them as well. It was like looking in to an abyss. I stared and searched for him in there but only saw the demon. Its strange but in the pictures I saw of him taken during that time, most people commented on his "crazy eyes" .
Best, LP
oh my God I'm getting goosebumps right now ! :o!
Because I can even see it on pictures!! that is exactly what I told my mother-in-law the other day when I looked at the photos that have been taken during that day (her wedding day) and the weekend..
I can clearly see it and she even said "yes he's off he's not there" and I said that is true and soooo true!!not sure if other people can see it or if it's just if you know what you're looking for you will but maybe later on others will recognize too. I just told her whenever she gets her professional pictures done to have let me have a look at it and see if you was off that entire day ..
She said also when the priest gave the ceremony speech with the two of them in front of the altar- that my husband was very jittery and really uncomfortable.. Maybe due to the stuff you already did and bad and guilt inside of him he didn't want to be there but again it was his mother ..
I am wondering if he will see that later on to in a couple of years when he's done with this journey.. The crazy eyes on the pictures..
As to that depression:
That is the only thing that I'm really worried about because he's military ...and the stuff that he has seen ..I hope he really gets help during that time- somebody that is there for him ...because I won't anymore, I will be gone at that time... so somebody needs to be with him And to help and guide him through so he doesn't do anything stupid if that state is so bad from what you are saying..
Are some of them open to therapy at that time or counseling or some kind of doctor to help them through it or is it still a state of denial ??
-
Are some of them open to therapy at that time or counseling or some kind of doctor to help them through it or is it still a state of denial ??
Mine would sometimes say there was something wrong with him but would not go to anyone if I suggested. Most of the time he would deny it. Even now, our marriage counselor suggested he had depression and advised medication but he refuses to take pills. I think they are just in such a state of denial that they refuse to listen to anyone else-they only will be around people that validate them.
-
Are some of them open to therapy at that time or counseling or some kind of doctor to help them through it or is it still a state of denial ??
Mine would sometimes say there was something wrong with him but would not go to anyone if I suggested. Most of the time he would deny it. Even now, our marriage counselor suggested he had depression and advised medication but he refuses to take pills. I think they are just in such a state of denial that they refuse to listen to anyone else-they only will be around people that validate them.
Yes I think he wouldn't take it either when I suggested therapy the first time (and I said I wish he would just get help) he said the typical army response ( of course I am the bad person so he wouldn't take it either) " I would rather shoot myself in the head and going to therapy "..
But if he really goes through another two years through replay stage maybe he does have enough at the end and goes and seek out help .. I really do ..
Did anybody already sincerely get an apology (where they are aware of the stuff that they have done)from their MLCer about stuff in "replay" or doesn't usually happen in the "depression"- stage ??
-
Hi,
LP, I've read your thread and it looks like you have done a lot of studying about this and seen the depression "develop" into this "deeper" level first hand.
Is it possible for you to describe it some more?
Is it OK to put up a photo on this thread, if you "mask it" and just show the eyes? I've not seen my H since october but I saw some photos taken aprox 2 months ago and the eyes are still dead/sad/empty/angry. I've been trying to explain this "dead look" to my SIL and a female friend, well they look like "eyes of a fish" but when they saw the eyes now, they finally got what I was talking about! Also the lips are straight or a little bit down.
My 0.02 why not so many see this, is when "they" mask their depression with a fake smile, you don't notice the deadness so much but if you cover the fake smile in a photo and just look at their eyes, they are still dead even if they have a fake smile on.
I met a guy 2-3 months ago, he started to hit on me ;D but after a few minutes he started to tell me cause he just told me he was divorced, "we grow apart the last 10 years" BIG red flag for me and he also explained he had been depressed another BIG red flag 8) anyway, I asked him what his depression felt like. I started like I just was interested in mental health. He said he first thought he had cancer, no no he was not depressed, but he told me about his suicide thoughts etc. I asked more since I really would like to get some kind of understanding as to how it really felt. I then told him my H is depressed now and gave him a short version. He stopped talking to me about this at that point. It was like he knew that I knew, exactly everything that he had done (the script) like I can't fool her with lies or anything, "she knows to much" kind of feeling.
-
Did anybody already sincerely get an apology (where they are aware of the stuff that they have done)from their MLCer about stuff in "replay" or doesn't usually happen in the "depression"- stage ??
My MLCer used to have a lot of awareness, the first couple of years in particular. He apologised a great deal, and then just carried on, as before. Compelled to go deeper and deeper into lala land.
-
I met a guy 2-3 months ago, he started to hit on me ;D but after a few minutes he started to tell me cause he just told me he was divorced, "we grow apart the last 10 years" BIG red flag for me and he also explained he had been depressed another BIG red flag 8) anyway, I asked him what his depression felt like. I started like I just was interested in mental health. He said he first thought he had cancer, no no he was not depressed, but he told me about his suicide thoughts etc. I asked more since I really would like to get some kind of understanding as to how it really felt. I then told him my H is depressed now and gave him a short version. He stopped talking to me about this at that point. It was like he knew that I knew, exactly everything that he had done (the script) like I can't fool her with lies or anything, "she knows to much" kind of feeling.
Ha! I bet he did run off after that. Got caught. Thought he had an easy prey there..
. but I think even if you would have not already have experience with a guy like him -moraly if you're stable and you know yourself then you're not doing anything .
But unfortunately there always people that fall prey to this behavior because they are sick individuals to himself .
Maybe somebody's just interested why somebody would not be "unhappy for 10 years" but then maybe get sucked into their talk ..? Not excusing that behaviour. You should just walk away.. Have dignity.. Plus:
If someone is not "happy for 10 years"- how or why do you think that YOU would be the one that could fix that whole situation ?! I would think about hey that guy is unhappy for 10 years he might have bigger issues so back off and get away from him .. Run the other way .. He needs help and I mean professional help .. There's no way that I would get involved into his crap ..
-
Shark eyes comes up a lot on this forum. It is a flat affect in the eyes that often appears around bomb drop and especially accompanied by lack of empathy or conscience. Some research I have been doing has led me to wonder: Is the shark eye more pronounced in the right or left? Or are both eyes about the same? (You can rely on photos or memory for this one.)
Please feel free to elaborate in the comments section. Also, if you have done any research into this topic, feel free to share.
Thank you!
-
The shark eyes are in both of my h's eyes. Most of the time i look at him, which isnt much, therevis nothing there. It is sad and frightening. Its sad because you could see the happiness in his eyes, and frightening because nothing is there and i no longer know the man, or lack there of,standing in front of me.
-
My H's shark eyes are gone now. But they were there. Of course they were hard to notice since he failed to make eye contact with me for a good 4 months.
-
My W had the shark eyes. She had them for about 3 months after she returned to our home. This was during her heaviest Monster phase. She wanted me gone during that phase and got her wish. They have not returned. Shark eyes were all about confrontation and destroying me. She still monsters occasionally but I classify it as more a whiny monster without those shark eyes.
-
It is both for my H. His eyes just appeared huge and unblinking. Almost like he was in a daze or maybe guilty.
-
For the last year my h was home and the first six months he was gone.. he had shark eyes.. the last time I saw him in court (September) they were gone and replaced by this lost .. I don't know where I am look.. it's was rather sad.. like looking at a lost child who can't find his parents and doesn't recognize anything around him.
-
My P had the shark (snake) eyes too but doesn`t have them anymore and hopefully they won`t return! I can`t remember exactly when but I think he had them either shortly before or around the time when he started practicing his very excessive "High Energy Replay", which was when he was out partying practically all night, every night. In my opinion this was the time when he hated me most and told me repeatedly that his greatest wish was to see me in the gutter.
-
My H were both eyes. There was a blankness for about 3 months after BD. Like there wasn't much in there. He always looked terrified like he might be found out about whatever. Since mine is a high replay vanisher I didn't see them all that often.
-
My H had the shark eyes in both eyes. Now there is more of an emptiness when I rarely see him.
-
As a non-native speaker of English, I may have misinterpreted "shark eyes", thinking that this term denotes cunning or evil looking eyes, which is not how I would describe H's eyes. However, I can attest to him displaying flat, emotionless eyes, eyes that at times look "half-dead" or "dead" to me.
Thinking back on our journey and encounters of the last 2+ years: I'm not sure whether there were shark eyes present at BD1 ("ILYBINLILWY") in August 2014. I recall his eyes and demeanor being vivacious when he told me then that he would move out and date if he could (i.e. financially). BD2 came via email in October 2015 and was preceded by a weekend trip -- yes, I do recall seeing blank, emotionless eyes then. The encounters that followed (Dec. 2015, Feb. 2016, Apr. 2016, May 2016, July 2016, Aug. 2016) were a mixed bag of avoiding eye contact, of emotionless eyes and eyes displaying their usual spark. In Aug. 2016, I saw H's dead eyes, which felt chilling to me.
If I see shark eyes in our next encounter, I will pay attention to whether this occurs in one or both eyes.
-
I had to post this, as I was looking at old pictures. In ealier pictures, ther was a softness and kindness in H's eyes. By November 2010, the shark eyes appeared. These were what I call the evil, entitled eyes. Thee months later, he emotionally checked out of the marriage, but insisted he was still engaged (lied). He cycled through those entitled eyes for the next three years and into the the empty, fake eyes. That's all I see now. No entitled, I'm too good for everyone, eyes, just the fake smile eyes.
-
I don't know..... STBX couldn't look me in the eye after BD#1.