Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: OldPilot on June 18, 2013, 10:50:17 AM
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To all,
The previous thread had grown to over 150 posts
Discuss away!
previous threads:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3535.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3535.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2738.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2738.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2220.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2220.0)
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Joining this thread as a mentor!
X
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Child Question.....
Last Night W called and asked us to go to dinner (she was out of town)
We had a nice dinner, she seemed quiet (said she was tired) and complimented me on my "pretty eyes" (was nice to get a compliment).
We drove back to my car... D3 started crying... W offered to take D3 overnight (give me the night off)... I said "no I committed to keeping her tonight -- you need your rest"
Now comes the question....
D3 starts a loud crying fit --
I then made the decision that my W could watch our D3 have a "mommy" melt down... figuring the timing was right for W to observe her collateral damage.... I committed to staying until D3 calmed down... until now W has not seen this.
Did I do the right thing?... or is this considered pressure?
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IMO if it was the right thing for D3 then it was fine.
My kids are quite a bit older ... someone else may be more help! But I feel that D3s needs should be first. xxxx
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I think it was fine, not too much pressure. She did offer to take your D. I will say that I am not sure your W will see the connection between the meltdown and collateral damage from the situation. She may, but during crisis they are pretty oblivious.
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Poor little mite :(
Your daughter would have had her crying fit whether her mother witnessed it or not, so yeah she might as well have seen it and you stood by your daughter as you would whether your W saw it or not, so it's not like you have orchestrated anything. Things are the way they are. Reality is what it is. I don't see why MLC'er should be protected from it, LBS aren't.
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This was my thought --- that the little one had started anyways.... the meltdown was quicker when we were both with her until better.
W has acknowledged a few times the effect.
Dang - I'm functionally detatched... still wishing that W would pull it together.
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QUESTION - Difficult Discussions Regarding Children
Background...
I've been the stay at home parent. The agreed plan was to have me stay with D3 until she began grade school.
Since BD, D3 has been at friends or family homes. I recently started working - babysitter quit.
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I do not make enough for institutional daycare... I really don't want her in a big box place... I do not have sick time..
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A few months ago W asked what I wanted for our daughter... not sure it was the right answer "for her to grow up in a single loving home with her neuclear parents.... not being tossed around from daycare to daycare"
I'm aware that the following answer will not be within the guidelines "us to go to counseling.. you to move home... us to raise our child together"
When the above is my true and honest answer --- and I'm not supposed to pressure... how do you answer?
Thank you
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I'm not sure, my situation is much different to yours.
I do think that sometimes it might be good to revert the same question to them....''What do YOU want for our daughter?''
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I'm not sure, my situation is much different to yours.
I do think that sometimes it might be good to revert the same question to them....''What do YOU want for our daughter?''
I don't have children, but I think this is a great response. Too many times the MLCers leave all of the important things on our shoulders to manage, and as a mother to a small child, she needs to have an opinion on this. Plus, it shows her you are listening to her. If she is able to express something ("I don't know" may really be her answer), you have the opportunity to respond with either alternatives or concerns. I wouldn't offer up your honest feelings at this point because I think it would be seen as pressure and not accomplish what you ultimately need - coming up with a real solution to daycare.
I'm not sure where you live, but you may be able to find a listing of home daycares in your area you could interview for potential placement. My MIL is a provider, and she is on a list in our county that parents can research. Costs are usually a little lower with those, and you can interview first to see if it's a fit. Just a thought.
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I can't answer your daycare dilemma.
We all say things we probably shouldn't have.
Funny thing is it seems the MLCer doesn't remember it most of the time. Brain fog.
Understand you don't want her back right now, she's quite broken and you can't
fix her.
Love your daughter, that's your only job. She will never forget who was there for her.
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I can't answer your daycare dilemma.
We all say things we probably shouldn't have.
Funny thing is it seems the MLCer doesn't remember it most of the time. Brain fog.
Understand you don't want her back right now, she's quite broken and you can't
fix her.
Love your daughter, that's your only job. She will never forget who was there for her.
Rebel...
You're correct - I don't want her back yet....
There have been some nice progressive baby steps....
I'm focusing on the things I need to manage - verifying I'm doing the right things
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NEW QUESTION
I've been stalling on separation agreement since end of March. H emailed yesterday saying "Still waiting to hear from you."
Would like input on these responses I am considering:
I understand you want to separate our lives. I don't agree with that but I’ll write something up for us to review and then it can be finalized by the lawyers. or
I understand you want to separate our lives. Let's get it done as soon as possible. I'll write something up for us to review and then it can finalized by the lawyers.
I feel torn because I don't want to separate our assets but the risk of not doing it is getting higher. (H started this process last November and has not acted--typical MLC behaviour.)
I appreciate any and all feedback.
OMJ
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How about ...
"I understand you want to separate our finances, can you write something up for us to review before we take it to the lawyers please?"
Put the onus on him ... let him write something up for you to review, why do you want to do the work? Let him do it.
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We used a mediator but it took a few sessions because we needed to get some items valued. I am glad we had her there because I think it would have turned into a huge fight as H was already frothing at the mouth even while we had the mediator in the room.
With her I felt protected and had a witness. She was also able to get H to back down on some things and put forward things we both hadn't thought of.
But then I was the one who did most of the work drafting up the agreement with the lawyers. But I needed to protect myself financially so that was my sole motivation.
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I'm currently facing a similar dilemma. I did have my lawyer write up an agreement based on a few notes my H gave me. I've basically said something similar to your first response that I totally don't agree with it but since I don't have any say in the final outcome I did have my lawyer draw up the papers. However I must admit that by having my lawyer draw up the papers I somehow feel guilty as if it's my fault although I truly know it's not and have told my H that I feel the papers are just so wrong as is everything currently happening. However it is to my financial benefit to go this route rather than let it go to court and let them make agreement decision.
Not quite sure what he's doing at this point as I gave him a copy about 1 1/2 weeks. He hasn't said anything to me about papers since then, so don't know if he's actually retained lawyer yet and gave him copy, but he did have another monster episode related to his future plans that he feels I am delaying.
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How about ...
"I understand you want to separate our finances, can you write something up for us to review before we take it to the lawyers please?"
I agree with this. However, in my experience, the MLCer may not do it or may do something that only benefits itself. Still, I would write that and would be ready to have my proposal to counter the MLCer one, or in case I really need to separate the finances.
If Musica's suggestion is not your style, than "I understand you want to separate our lives. I don't agree with that but I'll write something up for us to review and then it can be finalized by the lawyers."
27years, nothing for you to feel guilty about. You need to protect yourself and your finances. MLCers seem to take ages after we send them whatever paperwork we have given them. It is hard to know why, at times, they don't seem to do a thing, even after they have received just what they have asked for.
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It's true. My exH just kept nagging me and blaming me for the delay in the property settlement.
I just calmly replied that I was not going to contact my lawyer every week to hurry things up. That if he wanted to push it along he could contact his lawyer as it was his lawyer making ridiculous demands about how mine was to communicate to them. eg, they weren't to just personally walk the documents over.
He wanted the money but wasn't doing any work to prepare the consent orders.
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OMJ,
I am in the same situation as you. My W has had her lawyer send me several letters wanted to discuss a separation and all assets. I don't want to separate, I am willing to work on restoring our M. I have countless times told W and also her lawyer that when my W openly tells our Ds about why she wants this and what exactly she wants, then I will proceed on my end. My W had a separation agreement processed that wanted everything split 50/50 and I told W "no way in he)) I was agreeing to anything like that", since I wasn't the one who strayed from the marriage and hasn't lied throughout the process. I also believe that child custody will play a huge part in how things will shake out. I have my stuff ready to present to a lawyer and once this process begins, I will go full steam ahead, not looking back. I'm prepared but trying to wait things out. Good luck in your process.
Bailmor
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I did post this on my thread tonight and not got much luck in getting a response, I am sorry for repeating myself but didn't want to bump my thread as it is not urgent and the forum is very busy tonight with people who need to talk more than I do.
I just would like some opinions on this. It might even help somebody else. Thanks guys! :D
I have a question and was wondering if someone could answer it. I'm re-reading some articles and old threads and came across the 'failed return topic'
On BD, after a whole lot of talking, begging and trying to convince him, on my part, I sort of managed to convince him to try again even though he'd apparently 'tried' prior to BD ( I knew nothing about that of course!).
The trial time to rebuild our relationship lasted just two weeks...I could feel he wasn't into it and I let him go. That was when he confessed to suffering with anxiety and I blamed myself for it.
Would the 2 weeks trial period ( I felt like I was on trial then condemned!!!) be classed as a failed return?
edit: I should add: I think he might have had a desire to return at some point or at least considered it as he once told his mum after SHE tried to convince him as well:'' Thing is, if I go back to live there, I don't think she'd be happy if I said I wanted to go around Europe for 2 months (WTF?!!!). I think we need to talk''
We never talked. He never talked :o
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I guess it could be classified as a "failed return." My opinion though, and not everyone may agree, but that soon after BD I am not sure I would call it a "return." They are full of confusion particularly at the beginning and at the end of the crisis, so he was probably still trying to decide at that point what he really wanted. Then again, he did return so .... Not sure the label really matters. He just wasn't ready to be home.
Not a helpful answer, I know. :)
sort of managed to convince him to try again even though he'd apparently 'tried' prior to BD ( I knew nothing about that of course!).
Oh, yes. My husband told me this too at BD. I wasn't aware there was even a problem in our marriage and he told me our marriage was bad for years and he had "tried everything." Since I wasn't a part of all that trying and certainly didn't know there were these huge problems, I am not sure how that could benefit our marriage. MLC - swiss cheese brain.
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Well, your thoughts are pretty much like mine ....may be, may not be, maybe, maybe not! ;D
One thing is for sure, he was confused! He even said : 'We have to try, obviously I still have some feelings for you'', then could not recollect saying it and then absolutely, point blank denied it trying to make me think I was losing my marbles and that I must have imagined it! :o ::)
Yes, about the trying before BD...I said to him: ''So basically what you are saying is that I never stood a chance?''
All I got as a reply was a shrug! >:(
Hehehe, MLC swiss cheese brain ;D
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Oh, yes. My husband told me this too at BD. I wasn't aware there was even a problem in our marriage and he told me our marriage was bad for years and he had "tried everything." Since I wasn't a part of all that trying and certainly didn't know there were these huge problems, I am not sure how that could benefit our marriage. MLC - swiss cheese brain.
Oh my, mine said basically same thing. Seems everytime I question whether his could really be mlc I come across something like this to show me that he does show all classic signs of mlc. Not that it makes me feel any better just makes me think he truly may be clueless.
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booboo - at that point, so close to BD, maybe it was more of a failed exit than a failed return?
They are a mass of confusion closest to the beginning and the ends of the tunnel.
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[ I wasn't aware there was even a problem in our marriage and he told me our marriage was bad for years and he had "tried everything." Since I wasn't a part of all that trying and certainly didn't know there were these huge problems, I am not sure how that could benefit our marriage. MLC - swiss cheese brain.quote author=27 years link=topic=3658.msg220841#msg220841 date=1371861648]
Oh, yes. My husband told me this too at BD. I wasn't aware there was even a problem in our marriage and he told me our marriage was bad for years and he had "tried everything." Since I wasn't a part of all that trying and certainly didn't know there were these huge problems, I am not sure how that could benefit our marriage. MLC - swiss cheese brain.
My husband said this to me at BD too. Very eerie how they follow the script.
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I just wanted to know if I'm reading things correctly;
Am I right to assume its way too early to expect my H to give any indication of wanting to return or to have any positive feelings for me? ( one year from BD)
He calls me at least once a day for very superficial chat and work advice, but never alludes to coming home. In fact without saying it outright he alludes to the fact that he's never coming back. I don't initiate contact, I don't talk about our R, I don't ask him about coming home and I don't offer comment on future plans. We just chat like acquaintances.
Am I right to think that this is "normal" (can MLC be normal?? :o :o) for MLC at this point? Am I right not to panic that he's not mentioning it as its too early? Am I right to think that it could go either way?
I'm not asking for reassurance of a reconciliation, I just want to know if he's following the script. Trusting the process.
Thoughts?
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SF - each MLCer is unique, even though they tend to follow a script of some description.
He is obviously a clinger with his daily contact.
In the first year post BD - my H two or three times said 'who knows what will happen with us in the future kikki' (whatever that means - him wanting me as a safety net while he wanders off at his leisure) - and at around two years post BD he asked if he could come home (he had momentarily broken up with the OW) and I knew he was only asking out of security - I know he was hoping he and the OW would get back together.
He hasn't mentioned any likelihood of any of these things since.
But my H is his own self with his own experiences during his crisis, and your H will be his own unique individual too.
Your H clearly wants you to be his safety net too - whether or not he verbalises it directly. From what I have read - they kind of creep in sideways because they are so scared of being rejected by us.
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Slow Fade, MLCers also tend to cycle a lot the first couple of years after BD. You probably have heard that they cycle most at the beginning and at the end when the confusion is the greatest and there is light at either end of the tunnel (but not so much in the darkest middle part of the tunnel). It is MLC "normal" (whatever that is). Mine cycled a LOT the first couple of years and is cycling again now more after not seeing much for a couple of years but has never indicated that he is thinking about or wanting to "return" (indeed, he has never left the basement). And I would bet if he was asked he would say he has no plans on returning to our family. It is so difficult because we tend to analyze everything, but just take it for what it is and be glad for pleasant contact. He very much is following script.
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Thank you Trusting and Kikki! I kind of figured as much. I do tend to analyze too much. I'm trying not to read too much into the positive OR negative interaction. I know I can't trust what he says and only 50% of what he does so when I get too excited or depressed I try to move back to neutral.
I really think that when he gets scared about interacting with me so much he has to throw out a comment about being "done" just in case I get the wrong impression! ;D
I just don't want to get too complacent and get my heart broken again. I'm trying to stay prepared for ow2, D or both. I don't want to let my guard down but I don't want to be suspicious of every comment or action either. Its a frustrating dance to be sure! ::)
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I really think that when he gets scared about interacting with me so much he has to throw out a comment about being "done" just in case I get the wrong impression!
That sounds about right :)
It sure is a very frustrating dance, and you sound like you are doing really well Slow Fade. Keep it up :)
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QUESTION - RULES of COMMUNICATION (way of being treated)
My W44 and I are in frequent communication... About 1/2 the time she's very flirty and positive... 1/2 the time she's cautious not to give me "false hope"
I'm certain her fog doesn't let her know how ambivalence is worse than fighting. I'm always upbeat and flirty
she does listen and acknowledge truth darts
We're about 6 months from bd move out .... Slowly rebuilding bridges
Question:
Would it be ok to say, "I'm committed to things that heal our family (she's heard this frequently) I'm doing my best to only have people around me who are positve and loving... This includes you... You are only allowed to build me up... I love compliments and flirting with you -- you are not allowed to not push me away or down.. I deserve to be cherished and not taken for granted... This includes my parents, d3 and you.
I am aware that this is treating her like a little girl.... She does respond to decisiveness (when it's truthful)..
. We have implemented "rules" (boundaries)... Like I'm not allowed to hold her hand (until "she's ready")... When we physically see each other we have a 30 second silent prayer time (my rule).. I do not contact during the week without agreement (her request)
My IC (mc) commented that honest, sincere and positive boundaries are building blocks for paving he way back home
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It would be better IMHO to speak with ACTIONS and not words.
Write all that out here and then live it as an action.
The less you actually verbalize those thoughts the better, as sometimes just our voice can be seen as pressure.
I know it all seems counter intuitive but that is what MLC is all about.
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I'd agree with Old Pilot.
Thing is, I found that when I ' speak words' he just looks at me with that 'yeah whatever' look. When my actions speak for me, I get that 'WOW, what's going on here then?' look.
Sometimes, it takes a while for the actions to be noticed, if they are noticed at all, but they go hand in hand with the attitude and the self confidence you emanate. Sometimes, because of the uncertainty, I think our words can come out wrong, with the wrong, non-confident tone...almost as if we don't even believe what we are saying ourselves.
And...if they are indeed behaving like 'dirtbag teens', I think they'd get images/circumstances better than words. I mages and circumstances are harder to ignore than words. I think so anyway. If you think about it, that is how we teach young children, with flash cards. Back to the basics....
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I agree also about actions not words.
Would it be ok to say, "I'm committed to things that heal our family (she's heard this frequently) I'm doing my best to only have people around me who are positve and loving... This includes you... You are only allowed to build me up... I love compliments and flirting with you -- you are not allowed to not push me away or down.. I deserve to be cherished and not taken for granted... This includes my parents, d3 and you.
I know in "real life" this might be something you would say when trying to work on a relationship. If it is MLC, this will seem like pressure. If you were going to say something, I would definitely take the word "allowed" out and all the "this includes you" statements; I think those are implied anyway. She may not be acting like it, but she is an adult.
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Bringing this question here for Emma Lou
Quote from: Emma Lou on Today at 12:18:02 PM
I posted the details of my story under another thread-newbie, needs support...but, I guess my more pressing question of the day is if any of you have ever experienced no contact from your MLC and what you feel this is caused by and how long I might expect it too last?
BD June of last year, living with OW, or should I say she with him, and was in frequent, regular contact with me up until 6 weeks ago. He got angry with me for disagreeing with him over letting the mistress move in and telling our children, which he never asked me not to do, and ultimately that led to our 18 year old telling him she would not communicate with him until he ended there relationship. They were always extremely close! My daughter said that was the final straw for her.
Furthermore, I believe he is angry that the girls choose not to participate in Father's Day and again feel his extreme silence/stonewalling is an attempt to blame me for that.
In the beginning of this 6 week period of non-communication he was occasionally texting me about simple things, but now absolutely no response to anything I send via different routes. Please understand my contacts have been very minimal and although I did send a sappy e-mail asking my H, if he would explain his reasoning behind dropping off the face of the earth (which I expected no response), I also sent one other about him to assume a car payment of ours since I have since had to buy and new car and can no longer afford both (we divided up bills a while ago, and this is one i agreed to pay but since then our financial situation has changed) but again nothing-not a yes or no. I asked very politely that he just let me know but he has refused to do so.
I'm afraid he will forget we even exist over here! Do you think he is just blissfully happy with the OW and wants me to get the hint? How do I just go on without any information. He has walked away from me and the girls, all responsibility. Someone asked me the other day, "are you married?" I didn't know how to even answer that. I wanna wear my wedding ring but feel like people wonder why. He obviously has forgotten about his wife and two daughters, and is living a completely separate life. I want to believe he will talk with me again someday, but is that unrealistic? e
Edited to remove first name.
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I don't believe he has forgotten about you or the family at all, in fact, he rang you tonight, didn't he? (I have read your thread just not had time to reply yet ;))
My MLC'er ignored me this week after I contacted him and even forgot about taking our son to work with him. I saw him today and with what he had to say I knew for sure that he in fact thinks about us almost all of the time. He has been gathering a lot of bits and bobs throughout the week for the shop I am getting. Mainly bits of wood for the building work that needs doing. He's also put some wood away for my wood burner for next winter (now that's even thinking ahead!). He's also asked me a couple of questions about some of the things going on in my life(shows he's been wondering) and pays a lot of attention when I give away information- although this is new. When I did that shortly after BD I felt like I was talking to myself.
Of course he won't forget about you! How could he!!!!
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Yes - they do remember... There is amnesia about the pain and turmoil they cause
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QUESTION - RULES of COMMUNICATION (way of being treated)
Question:
Would it be ok to say, "I'm committed to things that heal our family (she's heard this frequently) I'm doing my best to only have people around me who are positve and loving... This includes you... You are only allowed to build me up... I love compliments and flirting with you -- you are not allowed to not push me away or down.. I deserve to be cherished and not taken for granted... This includes my parents, d3 and you.
I am aware that this is treating her like a little girl.... She does respond to decisiveness (when it's truthful)..
1994. It sounds to me like you want to establish boundaries. Boundaries are for you. eg/. Instead of telling my H not to text me, I just simply did not read or answer his texts or I forwarded them straight to my sister to decipher what I needed to know. I just advised him I would not be reading his texts anymore. (They were very abusive)
I can only control me not him. I agree with the other advice you received in letting your actions 'speak'.
Hope this helps. :)
SP
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QUESTION - RULES of COMMUNICATION (way of being treated)
Question:
Would it be ok to say, "I'm committed to things that heal our family (she's heard this frequently) I'm doing my best to only have people around me who are positve and loving... This includes you... You are only allowed to build me up... I love compliments and flirting with you -- you are not allowed to not push me away or down.. I deserve to be cherished and not taken for granted... This includes my parents, d3 and you.
I am aware that this is treating her like a little girl.... She does respond to decisiveness (when it's truthful)..
1994. It sounds to me like you want to establish boundaries. Boundaries are for you. eg/. Instead of telling my H not to text me, I just simply did not read or answer his texts or I forwarded them straight to my sister to decipher what I needed to know. I just advised him I would not be reading his texts anymore. (They were very abusive)
I can only control me not him. I agree with the other advice you received in letting your actions 'speak'.
Hope this helps. :)
SP
I'm sure some folks here would think I'm absolutely nuts and daydream of being on a Picknick with the W.
Long story short is W44 cycles through Neutral to Positive... at times she'll slip into negative.
Dumb question.. do you inform them what you will do with unacceptable behavior.. or do you just do it?
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do you inform them what you will do with unacceptable behavior.. or do you just do it?
Be like Nike, and just do it. ;) Think of the difference between young children and surly teens. With a young child, you would explain the consequences of their actions before hand, so they understand the outcome of their choice to do the wrong thing. You take that same tactic with a teen, and it's almost a dare. MLCers are more like the teenagers, going through changes of identity and testing boundaries. Focus on you and let her make her choices, but know what your boundaries are within that and what you'll accept into your life. But like with a teen, don't set yourself up for disappointment with expectations about her respecting your boundaries - but don't make yourself crazy waiting for it either. Just focus on you, and let her work this out.
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I agree with R2T in that you should just do it. However, use that as a good time to set a boundary for yourself and the repercussions if she does it again. Make sure you are clear in stating that this is not acceptable to you.
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I really think that when he gets scared about interacting with me so much he has to throw out a comment about being "done" just in case I get the wrong impression!
I get that kind of phrase too. H prefaced my birthday present with " Don't think this changes the way I feel about you. We still have issues!"
Am assuming that it's part of the script/ process etc......
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Am assuming that it's part of the script/ process etc......
Yes, definitely. Mine said it too, particularly in the year or so post BD.
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New question. My H and I are living apart for the summer. I'm taking some marriage courses. Should I tell him? We text daily and see each other occasionally so we're not in a bad place right now.
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I'm taking some marriage courses. Should I tell him?
I wouldn't. That would probably feel like pressure to him - it doesn't take much for an MLCer to feel pressure.
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I'm taking some marriage courses. Should I tell him?
I wouldn't. That would probably feel like pressure to him - it doesn't take much for an MLCer to feel pressure.
I intellectually understand the no pressure rule .... What's really going on that freaks them out so much.
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I'm just posting asking to get some attention over on my thread... boohoohoo, having a moment :'( :'( :'(
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3670.0;all
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Ok, I'm following Alwayshope with the same request. I have a situation that I need some help with on my thread!! :-\
I hate MLC!
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3638.0
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Ok, I'm following Alwayshope with the same request. I have a situation that I need some help with on my thread!! :-\
I hate MLC!
Please link to your thread...
Edited the post with the link - Oldpilot
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Hi,
Could someone point me in the direction of high energy/low energy replayers threads and/or articles please?
Than you very much x
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Hi,
Could someone point me in the direction of high energy/low energy replayers threads and/or articles please?
Than you very much x
This thread has a link to all the different contact types in it on post #1
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1530.0
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Thank you Old Pilot. Much appreciated. I hope you are well.
I googled for articles and found this also. Might be of use to somebody else :
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_covert-depression.html
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NEW QUESTION:
Hello all - could you provide some clarification on Replay - specifically whether an MLCer can be in Replay for a year before BD?
background - Nov/Dec 2011 -'I don't want to do this family stuff anymore / We would not be together if we did not have children / I need to have other interests in my life etc' - these were made subtly but then from Jan 2012 starts going out with 'new' friends to play pool, goes and buys very expensive car no matter what I think (and his comment was, 'I think its my time to have the car I want'), goes out partying and drinking heavily/ secretive with phone, goes away with the same 'friends' that I never got to meet or see any evidence of. Disappears 'shopping' some Sat/Sun. Up and downs alot, arguments galore. I suspect OW around summer 2012 but unable to prove it/denial. I now have suspicions whether the pool friends ever existed and it was OW all along but who knows...I do not have the energy!
BombDrop - ILYBNILWY - he makes total break from me Feb 13 - BAD monster and total personality change for 3 months until May 13 and the heavy drinking stops, socialising and spending stops. OW continues. H now showing some sort of respect in his manner with me and behaving alot better than previous (despite OW).....But he is still here at home.
Would appreciate comments please to help me work this out.....
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They can, but there is also a "lead in" time that can be 18-36 months even while they are still in limbo. I believe my xH's started in at least 2010, but I didn't get BD until 2011. It really doesn't help with the timeline or mean that they will go through faster - but many of us can recognize things happening long before they were officially known.
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Hi Panda
Yes your H could and probably was in replay before BD. As you look back the MLCer starts spending, losing weight and changing his clothes quietly and under the radar. Although we notice it is so subtle we dismiss it.
Prior to BD they will have gone through denial and anger before moving into replay. As it becomes replay proper then you get OW and BD but often the OW was around for months before we know as well. I know my H OW was with him from Jan and he dropped the bomb in Aug. Some LBS's report even longer affairs. At this time they are not sure what they want and most OW's start out as EA before becoming a PA. So replay is building all the time.
At the time we often don't see these behaviours but on reflection they are plain to see.
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Thankyou R2T and justasking - thanks for the clarification - so if I could ask one more question - were the comments made to me in Nov/Dec 2011 a BD aswell - did I miss it!!! ?
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IMO and others may feel differently the speech you got in Dec 2011 is likely to be your first BD although more subtle than your second BD in Feb. 2013.
Certainly it appears he was in replay big time during most of 2012.
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Panda - I have often wondered about my timeline as well, for the same reasons.
But I think the confusion comes because of how verbal our spouses are, or not. Some are a complete closed book until BD, and some, like our H's gave many clues as to the mess in their heads.
In the couple of years before BD, I definitely felt my H distancing himself emotionally - he said a few strange things such as 'if you died I probably wouldn't miss you', he travelled as much as he could for work to escape family life, he stopped doing things with the boys in the last 6 months, he was irritable and argumentative. There was no reasoning with him.
Sept 2009 he robotically said that he no longer missed the boys and I when he travelled for work. He was emotionally completely 'gone' at that point.
But from what I understand, BD is when they see no other way but to escape the relationship.
BD for me was Feb 2010 when he announced that we had a bad marriage and that he was leaving.
OW was definitely on the scene at this point - he was obsessed with her, but he didn't move out until June 2010.
So for you too - I think BD would be when he makes the decision to make a total break from you in Feb '13. Despite the trail of clues he gave you prior to that.
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Panda, there can be many BD's. My first BD was December 2008 - my H told me that he wasn't happy but wanted to work on our marriage, second one was October 2009 - my H told me that he still wasn't happy and mentioned a D, we went to marriage counseling, third and final one was March 2010 - OW in the picture.
I think every LBS can trace the beginning of their spouse's MLC to well before what they considered "THE" BD. It's hard to pinpoint the exact time someone goes into MLC, but you can get pretty close.
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Panda - you'll be wanting to clarify so that you know when to start officially recognising replay - is that right?
I would take it as being from Feb '13 personally.
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I've just posted asking for help on my thread, would appreciate some feedback. H still in replay, now in a relationship with his (former) lifecoach. x
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I've just posted asking for help on my thread, would appreciate some feedback. H still in replay, now in a relationship with his (former) lifecoach. x
Replied on your thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3352.new#new
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Thank you all - the thing is, now I am looking back in time, I cannot think that last year was anything other than REPLAY and the subtle messages I got end of 2011 were a BD...This then led him to go out and make all these purchases, drink, camping etc...THEN, when he realised that wasn't working, he got into an EA, then PA with OW and that led to Feb 13 BD....so whereas before he thought he could be 'happy' by buying stuff and going out, now he definately does think its me who is the problem.... That would explain why he no longer goes out, spends money and has stopped the frantic behaviour..... So now I really don't know what to take as the start of it all!!!!! I don't think it helps me much analysing it anyway ???
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Panda
Don't over analyse it will drive you mad. Your H is currently in replay and has a way to go even though he seems less 'frantic' at the moment. He is likeylt o get worse again before better though hopefully the monster you saw will have disappeared, though anger will still raise it's head oocasionally.
Hugs x
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Yes, he is still in replay and you are right, it doesn't do any good to analyze it. It really is pointless to try to figure out time frames I have found. They do cycle so much and every MLCer is different. They get through it when they get through. My H started out before and after BD with the crazy, frantic behavior. Then it died down a lot but I have seen it wax and wane throughout with cycling. It isn't frantic anymore, but some of the replay behavior would get better and I would think he was done with it and then somehow it would creep back in again.
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Thank you all. It helps with the clarification of what I experienced last year, however he is totally in the 'fog' now........xx
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Being the lighthouse and paving the way...
Could anyone shed some light on this, please? Maybe with articles, threads or even their own versions...When is the time to pave the way, how, how long for etc...What does being the lighthouse really mean?
Only I thought I had sussed until I read a few posts that found me confused...
Thank you :)
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Being the lighthouse and paving the way...
Could anyone shed some light on this, please? Maybe with articles, threads or even their own versions...When is the time to pave the way, how, how long for etc...What does being the lighthouse really mean?
Only I thought I had sussed until I read a few posts that found me confused...
Thank you :)
This really isn't the "offical" answer...
I have been through a ton of IC on the topic with some of heavy hitters.
baiscally
forgive
get your stuff together
fix in you what's needed
don't let your buttons get pushed... or push their buttons
be the best spouse option
remove barriers to returning home
be supportive without being pushy[/list]
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Being the lighthouse and paving the way...
Could anyone shed some light on this, please? Maybe with articles, threads or even their own versions...When is the time to pave the way, how, how long for etc...What does being the lighthouse really mean?
Only I thought I had sussed until I read a few posts that found me confused...
Thank you :)
I recommend you read RCR's articles on Contact and communication and also her blogs.
Personally,I see Paving the way as LBS providing reassurance and sense of " normality" but also a sense of moving forward and using dim and dark to help the emotional boundaries in the early days of MLC(although not quite sure how long early days lasts for). Hence I have not chucked H out yet although there is OW and when he does go he knows what he is missing. It is a fine line to tread. I see the lighthouse as the happy, secure , emotionally stable one with the ability to provide reassurance and also shine the light for MLC to walk to when they come out of the tunnel. That is my own personal understanding and interpretation. Others will probably think differently. Can't do better than RCR 's stuff though.
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The lighthouse story.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7.0
Scroll down to post #5
Not sure who originally wrote it?
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Thank you, you two.
It's pretty much what I have been doing then. My patience is wearing thin now though. I must work on that, it is a virtue after all...and time to start adding boundaries, too, I guess. He's starting to take the Mikey out of my goodness, I think.
I'm in bed now so I shall go off to read the RCR's articles you've suggested, SD....for the umpteenth time...It will all go in one day ;D
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Thanks, Kiki :-*
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Attention needed on my thread, please :)
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The option to 'modify' my posts is not showing up - could somebody please attach my old thread to my new one? Thank you!
Old: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3670.0;all
New: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3702.0
Edit - DONE - The modify button only works for either 90 mins or 120 mins I am not sure which.
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Having a hard time and could use some attention on my thread, please.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3608.0
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I need help now. After argument with S last night, H has walked out and said that he will not come home again as S15 declared him to be a non father and the sole cause all his anger issues and will only see him if S wants him to. Now there is some truth in this but I cannot bear the thought of the two men I love most being so angry with each other. Nor can I bear the thought of H being so horrible when I know he would lay down his life for his son. H was absolutely devastated at S's comments as was I.
Advice please.
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I'm sorry that has happened. I am not sure there is anything you can do. Let your husband work through it and see if he comes back or not but otherwise just stay out of the way. As the sane parent, we see the destruction the MLC causes to our kids and it is heart wrenching. My kids are younger than your son so they don't express to their dad the hurt he is causing and it KILLS me that he can't see it. As hard as it is, I believe the best thing to do is let them work out their relationship themselves. Your son's words to his dad were how he feels and he threw some pretty hefty truth darts. They may or may not sink in with your H while he is in crisis. Their relationship is between the two of them and theirs to maintain or not. I know it is horrible to watch. :(
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Further to this I had to stop S from sending a reply stating how much he hated H for everything he had done and wanted nothing more to do with him. He also wanted to give H an ultimatum to stop the affair or lose S for ever. He's 15 and shouldn't have to be going through this. I knew that this would push H who has been feeling suicidal over the edge so pleaded and persuaded S to tone it right down.
S has now sent text saying that he needs space from H and that the next time they talk should be in front of someone like a counsellor/therapist which S will be seeing soon. He has also told H that if he comes home (which he will have to as he works from home) that he should give S space and privacy and keep all contact to a minimum.
Why don't these MLCers see what they are doing to their children??? I hate MLC so much!
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Why don't these MLCers see what they are doing to their children??? I hate MLC so much!
I know. :( Me too. The kids are just collateral damage. While we didn't do anything to cause their MLC, we understand on some level why they do the things they do. The kids are just hurt by the actions of the MLCer.
S has now sent text saying that he needs space from H and that the next time they talk should be in front of someone like a counsellor/therapist which S will be seeing soon. He has also told H that if he comes home (which he will have to as he works from home) that he should give S space and privacy and keep all contact to a minimum.
I don't think that is such a bad thing. I'm glad your son will be seeing a therapist as it sounds like he has a lot of hurt he needs to work through (very understandably!). I think trying to direct your son away from lashing out at his dad any further is good.
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Why don't these MLCers see what they are doing to their children??? I hate MLC so much!
How unfortunately true. Everyone has always said what a good dad my H has been but he now seems clueless or just doesn't care what this is doing to them. He thinks since they are all 3 older(25, 23, 20) that they should be able to handle this and is actually doing us all a favor for having waited and put off his happiness. D-23 truly can't stand him and the other 2 although a bit more civil to him confide in me how upset they are with him. Initially tried to get him to see that his relationship with them will never be the same and how will he feel when grandkids start coming, but he just stated that would be up to them, he just wants to be "happy".
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I think that for now the situation is as fixed as can be. Your son did well with his latest texts. I'm glad your son has cooled down, but I must say I admire him for his honesty.
That was very brave of him.
I don't see why we feel we have to protect our MLC'ers from the ugly truth all of the time.
They may be fragile but so are we and our kids are even more so. MLC'ers do not have the monopoly on selfishness and diplomatic immunity.
It is done now and tomorrow is another day. Space is indeed what is needed.
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Why don't these MLCers see what they are doing to their children??? I hate MLC so much!
"A child from 2 happy homes is better than a child from a single unhappy home"
.....this may be my favorite script I've received.......
Answer:... "Um.. I've done the research.. multiple studies have proven that for depression, success, life span, economic vitality and relationship quality... that a child from a single loving home is better than either of the 2 options suggested (for all 3 involved parties)... I'm committed to the best option"
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Thank you for replying. After collapsing in floods of tears I phoned both my Ds 25 & 22 and told them. Different responses from them. Oldest hating her dad for it all, next one giving me calm sound advice and offering to mediate between the two. She must have done something as H has just come home. Subdued and clearly hurt. I think he will leave but it must be his decision not forced upon him.
I agree BBC64 that my s is brave but it's how he harbours his anger that must be dealt with.
Maybe this is a good shock for H to have. It won't get him out of M L C but it will certainly sow seeds in his thinking and if nothing else make him realise he can't have it both ways so his desire to be happy is further thwarted.
Thanks all your words give me great comfort. I think I can sleep now.
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New question.
This is with regards to Paving the Way.
I read on a post last week (I think) about making sure you do this BEFORE the MLCer is too deep in the tunnel so they remember you.
My question is, at what point should this be done, and how do you know?
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If you sincerely and 100% mean it.... Starts at day 1.... Forgiveness
Then it's confronting and working through your valid inner demons
Then it's slowly removing your barriers
In short becoming their best spouse option
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Thanks 1994, but how do you know if its gone past the point that they remember? ie, too deep in tunnel? Is there a way to tell?
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Thanks 1994, but how do you know if its gone past the point that they remember? ie, too deep in tunnel? Is there a way to tell?
I would say trust your intuition, you know your MLC'er better than anyone.
When the depression is very deep, there wont be much that will matter.
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OldPIlot,
Just picking up on what you said then, so paving the way in REPLAY is ok? - because once out of this, into Liminality I presume, is when they are too far in? Have I got this right?
Thanks
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OldPIlot,
Just picking up on what you said then, so paving the way in REPLAY is ok? - because once out of this, into Liminality I presume, is when they are too far in? Have I got this right?
Thanks
By the question I am not sure you still understand the stages or REPLAY.
Depression is present throughout the entire process and they can bounce around between stages.
Stages do not always go 1,2,3,4,5,6
It took me quite a long time to understand this.
Thats why stage watching is a bad idea.
Replay lasts forever in so many cases and as long as the other person is present, or the fantasy of the other person is present they are still in REPLAY.
RCR just wrote a blog post about the length of the crisis that might be helpful to read.
My point is that during REPLAY or escape and avoid sometimes you might PAVE the way and most of the time you should probably just be silent.
It is possible for the other person to be gone and them still remain in REPLAY.
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Well, that also answers the question I asked on my thread...
I am getting a bit sick of this MLC. I think I might just go and have one of my own-avoid being accountable for anything, torment people, confuse everyone whilst having a good time, and get away with it, using MLC as an excuse and sticking to it grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Thank you OP.
I understand that depression is present in all the stages , but don't understand all the stages because I haven't seen or experienced H going through them yet. I didn't understand how to recognise when someone is too deep in the tunnel.
I will look for RCR's post you mentioned - thanks
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The way my MC'er is going, I don't think there will be any chance for me to ever recognise any of the stages within him.
He cycles way too much between depressed and happy...and for long periods of time.
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Question --- Depression.
My W44 is now showing signs of entering the depression tunnel (been 6 months).
I understand part of the "reality" is that they perceive if they blow apart their world, that it will become different (escaping).
I've been very stong in supporting and getting my junk together.
Last night she gave indications that it would be a long time before she's out of the tunnel (said it).
WHEN she talks to me (about her being sad)... beyond being supportive and "poor baby.... " any advice of what to say/do?
I have a hunch that I may be getting BD or distancing coming up... she's entering the tunnel.
Until now she's been very upbeat.
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Panda, I think paving the way is something that can be done the whole crisis. You may not have as much opportunity to do so as much while they are in the deepest part because they are more distant, often physically as well (you simply won't see them as much). But part of the paving like the forgiveness, etc. is ongoing regardless of if you are around them or not. I think paving the way has far more to do with how you are around an MLCer than things you do, if that makes sense, more being not doing.
Truly, until the end of the crisis it may not seem like they notice or remember anything. I do think they will remember the way you were.
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Quick question;
If depression in men is sometimes expressed as anger, and H has cycled back into an enormous amount of anger (but not monstering at me, just dim/dark contact) could this mean he is showing movement? He has gone from clinging to wallowing and he thinks the whole world is against him right now.
Angry Eeyore!
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he thinks the whole world is against him right now.
Alone.. this is a signal... hopelessness.
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he thinks the whole world is against him right now.
Alone.. this is a signal... hopelessness.
Isolation and hoplessness are indicators of clinical depression.
The unfortunate thing is denial also is... unless your loved one is getting coaching or treatment... depression can spiral a long distance.
My mom has ZERO recollection of her time in clinical... I mean ZERO... it's all wiped totally clean.
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My h has expressed isolation and hopelessness at B D and talked about suicide and lack of self belief. Having a D With diagnosed clinical depression and my s being diagnosed as anger linked to depression now I can see that it is an hereditary situation in our family.
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Hi I am really struggling this week ??? I don't know why ? I have been great for months, I guess I can be strong in keeping going and knowing that he really does love me because we had an amazing marriage.
I guess I am getting to a point where for how great I've been I want to see something ??? Anything !!! He was making contact and coming around and now that has stopped, why ? It is also his birthday this week, I miss him. Please see my thread.
thanks Princess Grace X
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3661.0
Moderators answered on thread.
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Hi I am really struggling this week ??? I don't know why ? I have been great for months, I guess I can be strong in keeping going and knowing that he really does love me because we had an amazing marriage.
I guess I am getting to a point where for how great I've been I want to see something ??? Anything !!! He was making contact and coming around and now that has stopped, why ? It is also his birthday this week, I miss him. Please see my thread.
thanks Princess Grace X
Please link
Feeling for you... Isolation sux
Edit - Link added to her post - OldPilot
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New question...
My h has started the separation process. I need advice on what I should be doing, what I need to be taking into consideration, any helpful advice from Anyone having gone through this. Back ground... BD 7 months ago, we own our own company, I am a SAHM, we have 3 young kids my h is a monster right now and wants to destroy me, I am sure. Never having handled our finances I am a bit lost.
I have asked a few questions on my thread if someone could check them out.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3716.0;all
Answered on thread.
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what is paving the way ? is there an article on this ?
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Question --- Depression.
My W44 is now showing signs of entering the depression tunnel (been 6 months).
I understand part of the "reality" is that they perceive if they blow apart their world, that it will become different (escaping).
I've been very stong in supporting and getting my junk together.
Last night she gave indications that it would be a long time before she's out of the tunnel (said it).
WHEN she talks to me (about her being sad)... beyond being supportive and "poor baby.... " any advice of what to say/do?
I have a hunch that I may be getting BD or distancing coming up... she's entering the tunnel.
Until now she's been very upbeat.
Your wife doesn't sound as though she is a high energy replayer 1994, so I would personally say once and only once that she could talk to her doctor about it. MLCers are notorious for not wanting help, but in your case I do think I would suggest it (but as I said, only the once, and then zip it on the subject).
Validation of how she is feeling is another thing you could do.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_balancing-love_validation.html
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Quick question;
If depression in men is sometimes expressed as anger, and H has cycled back into an enormous amount of anger (but not monstering at me, just dim/dark contact) could this mean he is showing movement? He has gone from clinging to wallowing and he thinks the whole world is against him right now.
Angry Eeyore!
Hi Slow Fade
Yes, this is movement.
Movement doesn't necessarily always seem positive, but it is necessary and important in the big picture, either way.
Depression pervades the whole of the crisis. Sometimes covert (hidden by addictions and replay behaviours), sometime overt (more obvious).
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what is paving the way ? is there an article on this ?
Don't think there is a specific article about paving the way - it's more about an attitude towards your MLCer. I would read all of the mirror - work articles, plus the standing action articles to get a feel for this.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html
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what is paving the way ? is there an article on this ?
I found a few at the rejoice ministries site..... I do not have a link
It had things like
- Do not change anything in the house
Leave his/her closet vacant
Pray with your children to fix both parents
Do not say any thing negative to his/her family and friends
Do not tell unnecessary people
Read Ephesians 4:17-32
Have an "ultimate" outfit ready
Implement improvement plan for their valid complaints
Forgive
Forget where it was - the article was useful....
The ultimate outfit has come in handy several times
Some would say its teaching codependency ..... Some would say welcoming
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what is paving the way ? is there an article on this ?
Have your read this thread and all the links?
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6.0
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Hello everyone. Could I get some perspective on my thread? I feel like some developments are in the works and I'm not totally sure how I should handle it.......H seems to be spiraling down and need some advice. Thanks so much!
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3708.0
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what is paving the way ? is there an article on this ?
Don't think there is a specific article about paving the way - it's more about an attitude towards your MLCer. I would read all of the mirror - work articles, plus the standing action articles to get a feel for this.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html
I remember reading one specifically about this.... Still thinking it was rejoice.... I remember organizing, cleaning and pressing a few outfits... They did come in handy
Also remember removing all clutter from her closet-- she did notice
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Hi,
I have a new question and would appreciate any comments.
H and I have been apart 3 years. I'd say now we are definately in reconnection and OW is definately gone now. We've been seeing more and more of each other. He tells me he loves me and thinks of me all the time. He's also said he hates me though!!
He texts a lot as well and all seemed to be going in the right direction. He does blow hot and cold which I understand is normal at this stage and he's terribly depressed and tired. He makes future dates and plans for us but recently he's started saying that when his present lease runs out, he will probably move back to where he was before!
I feel confused and now wonder if I'm just a convenience and he has no intention reconcilling or of coming home.
Thoughts and advice would be most appreciated.
X
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I would say to just continue to detach and give it more time. He is not gone yet, nor has he made the movement toward the idea of coming home. Since he is in love/hate with you still, it sounds like he is doing a lot of cycling, so these may just be ideas running through his head. Protect yourself by not attaching meaning to any of his actions until he is concretely moving in one direction. In hindsight you will know whether this is a touch and go or a closer attempt at reconnecting.
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Serenity, my H is kind of in the same position. He has been gone for over 3 years, OW is out of the picture, finally, he and I text and talk all the time, he makes future plans for us, yet he is no where near ready to commit to our marriage again. Sounds like your H needs more time to self reflect and work on himself. Personally, I am continuing the work on me, but there for my H when he needs to talk. I sometimes, when my H is in a good mood, drop bits of info about our future.
xo
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NEW QUESTION
I'm needing help over on my thread. I know everyone is super busy and there are a lot of people on here to help so I really appreciate your time.
And it's not super urgent. My W is on OW2 and it's the woman she was with when we met. Good grief.
Need some insight.
Warning: I've written a lot. It's pretty long. I know that makes you want to rush over there and read it right away. ;)
Thanks. :)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2942.0;all
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Thank you Ready2 and ForeverHopefulOne.
I must admit I felt a bit hopeless and fed up with this whole thing. I'm so sick of hearing how sad and lonely he is. He has a wife and family that love him.
Thankyou for and sorry I'm just tired of all this like we all are.
X
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Any chance for a quick look and words of wisdom on my thread. Had enough of H's lies and even though it's still early days am at stage of asking him to leave or at least accept that I want nothing to do with him. Am really fed up of his flaunting OW in my face while he lives at home.
Help - please.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3720.0;all
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Hello!
I was wondering if anybody here had any experience with their MLC'er beginning to face their childhood issues?
It would appear that my MLC'er is doing so, that he has become a bit obsessed with it all right now. There is a bit more info on my thread.
I am feeling very sorry for him right now and not sure where I should stand with him. Should I be his friend? Should I back off completely?
What should I expect? More replay antics? More depression? Seeing as he still visits me, I would like to be prepared in terms of protecting myself and our children as well as knowing and understanding how this could affect my stand.
I understand I need to detach, but it is very hard to so when I love my MLC'er and I have began to forgive him for his all wrong doings towards me... :-\
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Me too. My H has childhood issues and demons which like BB64 he is beginning to face, so I would be interested too!
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BB64 - how do you know your H is beginning to face his issues already - has he discussed it with you?
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He has said a few allusive things to me, yes.
''What I want you to do with the money I lent you for the business, is give it to the kids when they turn 18''
When I asked 'How come?''
He said, in a very bitter tone and fixated eyes:'' Because I had eff all when I had to start in life!!!!!!''
He also said, when we were talking about my son being a bit naughty:
''He has never had any reasons to rebel, we gave him a very good childhood. We had reasons to be bad you and I, we've had terrible childhoods''
He's been making contact with his long lost of 25 years sister, has asked to see his parents divorce papers and house deed (which half of it should be his when he father passes, but his father sold after the divorce without buying his kids out).
He hasn't seen his father since he was 3.
And after the speech he gave my son yesterday, I really have no doubt he is at least revisiting his childhood.
I know my MLC'er and I can feel it in my bones that something isn't right with him at the moment.
He is sinking :-\
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Curious as My H also started to make comments like this and yesterday picked up some very old taped recordings of his dad from a very old friend who knew his father well. They had been submerged in years and years of dust in this lady's attic. He arrived back home with several boxes and is very keen to get it all working so he can hear his Dad's voice again.
yes BB64 - he is sinking- isn't that what is supposed to happen? Or has H voiced very dark potentially suicidal thoughts like mine has. That is overt depression and at least mine acknowledged for the first time last night that he was severely depressed.
Watch and observe. Having one D and now my S with clinical depression I recognised the symptoms with H- all you can do is watch, observe and encourage positive attitudes such as "It's good that you are thinking of the children in that way - life for us was so much easier back then if you compare what we expected to what they expect now and I would hate to be a young adult in today's world trying to buy houses, cars etc...."
Or " yes S can be naughty from time to time but at least we're giving him chances to find himself in a safe environment"
That way you are validating his feelings but not allowing him to wallow in self pity for too long. Good idea to write down what he says though and keep a log for later counselling or reflection.
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Oh I did at the time validate. One thing him and I have always agreed on is that our children would not go through what we have and we always praise each other for our parental skills.
He'll say I have been a very good, loving, always present mother and I'll say he has been a good provider, has good authority and hands on when a problem arises.
We tell each other this much quite often. We make a good team as parents, that is for sure. Well, at least we did before BD anyway.
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And, no, no talk of ending his life, but he has been very derogatory towards himself lately:
''I'm such an idiot''
''I'm so thick sometimes''
''This and that drags me down'
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booboo64 - looks like progress.......?
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i dont think i understand how to use these sometimes i asked a question but it hasnt gone in the ask a mentor 4?
i feel so silly ::)
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How do I cope,
What was your question?
X
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hi serenity long statment and question found it and copied and pasted into here thank you xx
h came "home" from ow on friday i felt very anxious as usual any hoo he was little funny then yesterday son went out which meant h and i in house on our own... i was sat in garden (nice weather in uk for a change ) he came though snd asked if iwanted him to show me how to use the lawn mower i just said no ( i feel he should do it but thats another thing)
anyway i went in room so he sat for a while then went into his room he then came through a little later and said i dont go in there or not sit with you in the garden because i have fallen out with you or because i ont want to it s out of embarrassment due to the circumstances becuase i dont know what to say i think he is stRTING TO HAVE REGRETS ABOUT OW but darent hope too much , have seen changes in him over last few months him being more helpful rather than monster and horrible but still no reply to solicitor after 9 weeks now sorry if was statement as weell as question just wondered what you might think am just feeling a bit down again today xxx
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Hi again How do I cope,
Not sure on your timescale, but it does sound like your H has been doing some thinking if he's being more considerate. It may not mean he's ready to give up OW as yet though! Might be a bit of guilt on his part. Is he still helping around the house?
Is he still living at home? Sorry lots of questions - just trying to get a better picture of your situation.
X
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PS Forgot to say, I live in UK as well. I'm in Buckinghamshire area.
X
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hi Serenity
thank you for your reply bd was Jan 2012 out the blue met ow on holiday my life turned upside down 22 years married together 25 no signs of snything wrong ..
sorry i havent posted full story yet suppose i should soon , he is still living at home which makes things so much harder. he didnt help at first but over last few months things have chnaged .
he goes away on his days off so works 4 off for 4 then comes back then once a month has ten days off so comes back , i feel if he wants to be with ow why doesnt he just go says his job ids here so why not move out ? weird weird situation .. i feel i am in groundhog day sometimes but he is also starting to have more eye contact now.
lastr year he had nearly two false r said he was going to get all his stuff and come back home but he couldnt leave ow how can they do this for someone they dont know people think you should just move on and forget everything bt i know this isnt my husbsnd is still love him and believe he still loves me but just keep putting myself through hell is not so easy to detach as people say but i d try .
we lost his mum last year which was traumatic (ow wrote to his dad to say she wished she had gotten to know my mil how dare she ) i had funeral and wake at my house now his dad my fil has cancer and i feel so helpless h doesnt seem bothered and again this was not like him he told me yesterday he had not contacted his dad at all for his ten days off i said thats not good really is it and he agreed, its so confusing serenity i will read your story soon i live in north of england nice to talk to someone from uk :-) bet weather is beautifl where you are this is like a freak heatwave here thanks again hope you are ok x
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Hi How do I cope,
I have never posted my story either, so don't worry to much if you do not wish to. You can still get help and advice, as I do. I just fill bits in here and there.
My H been gone 3 years and I know for a fact that I could not have coped with him at home. I missed him terribly as he and my children were my life. But lately I feel better about things but obviously taken me a long time. You obviously have not been at this for so long. Your H is def in crisis and like everyone here will tell you, OW is just somewhere for him to hide at the moment, and mirrors the way your H is. He's the opposite of the man you've known and been married to. Please do not worry that it's love, it most certainly isn't and will run it's course. I know it's hard, but it really is best to just let them get on with it!
My H had OW 1 on and off over three year period and also OW2 and then went back to OW1. They are now both gone and we are reconnecting, but it's slow progress and not really how you would expect it to be.
I personally believe, that most MLC'ers come home, but you have to be prepared for it to take a very long time. That's not to say your situation will, of course.
As to the detachment thing, I've never managed to get fully detached, I've distance myself, but as he's mostly been a boomerang, I found it quite hard.
My advice would be to do as much as you can to fill your time with anything that appeals to you. Keep busy and occupied. You will just go through the motions at first, but at some point you will start to enjoy it.
I'd wait and see what your H does next and try not to have R talks with him. I'm sure others will give you good advice.
Take care,
X
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thanks Serenity 3 years is a long time isnt it but reading on here its short in scheme of things same as me i suppose, did your h monster and seems as though he had been taken over by someone else ?
i thank you very much for replying to me think i am just having one of my down days today i dont think he loves ow as he doesnt seem happy at all and your right he is total opposite to what he was and she is total opposite to me .
hope you have a good day :-) xx
hope can chat again soon
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Answered on thread. Not as well as Serenity answered. :)
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Thank you Calamity, that is a big compliment.
X
How do I cope,
My H was still monstering at me up until about 6 months ago. I must admit I do know the triggers now, so I steer clear of them, but I feel we've moved on from that stage now anyway.
Sorry you're down. As they always say on here - keep strong and keep going, one day at a time.
Hugs,
X
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Being the lighthouse and paving the way...
Could anyone shed some light on this, please? Maybe with articles, threads or even their own versions...When is the time to pave the way, how, how long for etc...What does being the lighthouse really mean?
Only I thought I had sussed until I read a few posts that found me confused...
what is paving the way ? is there an article on this?
I remember reading one specifically about this.... Still thinking it was rejoice...
Well, the phrase Paving the Way is common and so it's not trademarked or anything—I don’t think so at least and so Rejoice Ministries may use it also, but I started using it on my own and so my usage may or may not be different.
I just wrote a blog post to explain Paving the Way. (http://bitly.com/183cURa)
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Sorry - but I'm struggling with H still living at home and off seeing OW more than ever. I know it's cycling and I know that he will leave - he has said he will when he can afford it but I want him out now.
RCR has written a lot about CBs but it usually refers to CBs that keep coming back home rather than those that are still living at home. My H works from home too and then thinks it's ok to disappear off each night although he doesn't stay overnight and weekends to see her. How can I set him a boundary other than "please leave!"
Help!
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How can I set him a boundary other than "please leave!"
What do you have against using that one? He is deep in replay and if you already feel he is going to leave anyway, do what is best for you. It will not hinder stop his crisis to save yourself the anguish of having this in your face.
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R2T - Thanks.
I suppose what has been stopping me is that he said at BD that I had every right to kick him out and later expressed surprise that I hadn't. (too shocked really to do anything) I thought that maybe it was a 180 thing where if I did what he didn't expect it would show him that he couldn't control me.
How ironic - I've just realised as I wrote that sentence that that is exactly what he has done......
Thanks again.
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Sorry - but I'm struggling with H still living at home and off seeing OW more than ever. I know it's cycling and I know that he will leave - he has said he will when he can afford it but I want him out now.
RCR has written a lot about CBs but it usually refers to CBs that keep coming back home rather than those that are still living at home. My H works from home too and then thinks it's ok to disappear off each night although he doesn't stay overnight and weekends to see her. How can I set him a boundary other than "please leave!"
Help!
What do you have against using that one?
The problem with that one is that it implies a request or question--and a request can be denied. Some things need to be non-negotiable--demanded or required.
The challenge is regarding what sort of power you have to apply your demands--legal as well as emotional power over him. You may have no legal power to kick him out of the home and prevent continuing access, so find out because sometimes it may be required that you take legal action to be given that power.
But how about emotional power. It sounds like right now he has it over you and you need to take back that power. I was able to kick Chuck out even though I had no such legal power. Chuck gave me that power; he saw the house as my space--and our space too. But for some reason he had respect for my space. Some Clinging Boomerangs will be that way and some may become that way later in the crisis. I think a lot of it has to do with how empowered you are. Because it's not about having power over anyone, but being consistent within your own power. You command power and respect and that is different than demanding which is something to avoid when you can, but in this situation it needs to be demand because it is non-negotiable and he's resistant.
So your challenge is building up your own power to pull that off. Part of that is not arguing about it--since it's non-negotiable there is nothing to argue (from your perspective. That means that you do not need to explain or defend beyond a simple statement which you repeat like a broken record--it may be something you have already been saying. If you change the statement or expand you risk weakening it--in part because an explanation can feel like you are allowing a negotiation.
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So your challenge is building up your own power to pull that off. Part of that is not arguing about it--since it's non-negotiable there is nothing to argue (from your perspective. That means that you do not need to explain or defend beyond a simple statement which you repeat like a broken record--it may be something you have already been saying. If you change the statement or expand you risk weakening it--in part because an explanation can feel like you are allowing a negotiation.
Thanks RCR,for getting back to me so quickly. H works from home too. I pay the mortgage and most of the bills - he pays for the luxuries and in UK law we are joint tenants in common so technically I cannot throw him out although I can afford to live here without him.
However I have repeatedly said to him in our three talks since BD in March that I find his behaviour disrespectful and hurtful and that if she means that much to him he ought to leave. He did acknowledge before the weekend that he would leave "when he could afford it". He also acknowledged that what he was doing to me was hurtful and I didn't deserve to be treated this way. So perhaps that is my power and that's what I need to use?
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How can I set him a boundary other than "please leave!"
What do you have against using that one? He is deep in replay and if you already feel he is going to leave anyway, do what is best for you. It will not hinder stop his crisis to save yourself the anguish of having this in your face.
I'm not as qualified as some of you.. just a nut who's been through counseling and books.
What I don't like about it is that it's forcing him out --- game playing when you deeply don't want him to go.
This may be too "pushy" ...
I'll try a quick one...
"You know deeply how much I love and protect my family... I'm in favor of everything that restores our family....If you choose to continue with OW, it may not be a solid building block for our family"
(guessing there's a better way to put it -- that was speed typing)
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Being the lighthouse and paving the way...
Could anyone shed some light on this, please? Maybe with articles, threads or even their own versions...When is the time to pave the way, how, how long for etc...What does being the lighthouse really mean?
Only I thought I had sussed until I read a few posts that found me confused...
what is paving the way ? is there an article on this?
I remember reading one specifically about this.... Still thinking it was rejoice...
Well, the phrase Paving the Way is common and so it's not trademarked or anything—I don’t think so at least and so Rejoice Ministries may use it also, but I started using it on my own and so my usage may or may not be different.
I just wrote a blog post to explain Paving the Way. (http://bitly.com/183cURa)
Thank you...
I remember a Rejoice Ministries article on the topic... unfortunately their content isn't the easiest to navigate.
Nice work RollerC
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Thank you for the reply, RCR, and thank you for shedding a brighter light upon what paving the way is about.
I feel very reassured now that I have done and still doing what needs to be done. I ought to, however, keep working on detaching.
Thank you, again! :)
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NEW QUESTION
It's me again. :)
I have two questions...
1. How does everyone handle the amount of contact they have with MLCer when they have young kids? My W is on OW2 and she keeps texting me (really they're for D4) and trying to call when she's with OW2. She never did this with OW1 but she didn't spend that much time with her as she lived 3 hours away and was married and straight. :)
My W was out of town with OW2 during 4th of July long weekend and is now out of town for this week for work and out of town the following week for vacation with OW2. I would really like to tell her I'm taking this opportunity while she's going to be gone to have some "healing" time for me and D4 and we won't be responding to her texts and calls unless there's an emergency, of course. I'd also like to say that it's inconsiderate of her to text and call us when she's with OW2 and that I won't be a part of it.
I feel like this is the right thing to do but always want to keep myself in check and make sure I'm not being irrational. I have had a mild case of trying-to-make-sure-I-don't-do-the-wrong-thing during this journey. If things get worse I don't want it to be because of something I did. :)
If I do this W will get angry and accuse me of keeping D4 from her. But in reality every time W calls and tries to talk to D4 on the phone, D4 doesn't want to talk and sits there staring at the phone refusing to say anything. and this last time D4 told me after we hung up that she only wants to talk to W when she's with her in person. We normally have a regular routine where W sees D4 and it really irritates me to see D4 upset when W has these times of not being around. I want to protect her from that as much as possible plus set a boundary that calling us while with OW2 is NOT okay. these are my two reasons for this no contact decision.
So is this a rational thing to do? and aside from this specific situation how do you guys handle the amount of contact when you have young kids?
2. Anyone have any information on when the alienator is someone from their past? I think it's a good thing in my situation (it's the woman she was with when we met) but I would love to hear other stories of this kind of thing or get any insight anyone might have about it.
Thank you so much! I can't say that enough... I don't know what I would do without this place. :)
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Shineon
This is what makes MLC a constant dance on the tightrope.
Every MLCer and LBS and situation is different.
Yes, having children or businesses together does make things like contact and boundaries potentially far more difficult.
I understand you are being twisted in two, trying to do the right thing here - but no contact is for you. It is not going to change your W's behaviours. This is what makes MLC so very bizarre. Most who want contact, insist that there is nothing wrong with having their two lives. And they are seemingly oblivious to the trainwreck and the pain they inflict on those that love them.
We can't make sense out of nonsense. There is no logic to the way a MLCer thinks.
Whatever you decide to do - will have to be constantly navigated. It is most unlikely that what you put in place will remain static.
If you decide you want that week without contact, then do that. Tell her you will not be responding except for emergencies.
There is no one way to navigate this mess that they create.
With children though - MLCers are pretty much guaranteed to throw their guilt back in your face at some point - saying that the LBS has kept the children away from them. This seems to be part of the script.
Don't twist yourself in knots about this. At the end of the day - your W is going to do what she is going to do to get herself through this part of her life, despite whether you choose this boundary or not. Her journey is beyond your control.
I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.
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I don't have kids, but I see doing anything other than direct calling or video phoning a child under the age of 10 or so as just trying to incite contact with the LBS. It's not like your little D4 can read the texts, so she knows she's just contacting you to parent for her (or this is her not-so-subtle way of keeping you on the vacation with her).
I would back up what kikki says about the NC - wish her a good time, and tell her she can tell D4 all about it when it's over, or call direct (and if D4 doesn't want to talk, guess what - she won't get talked to, and that will teach her what life without her child is like). You are under no obligation to narrate your W's vacation with the OW2 to your young daughter.
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Emergencies only...
Set up a swap time in advance... stick to it.
NEW QUESTION
It's me again. :)
I have two questions...
1. How does everyone handle the amount of contact they have with MLCer when they have young kids? My W is on OW2 and she keeps texting me (really they're for D4) and trying to call when she's with OW2. She never did this with OW1 but she didn't spend that much time with her as she lived 3 hours away and was married and straight. :)
My W was out of town with OW2 during 4th of July long weekend and is now out of town for this week for work and out of town the following week for vacation with OW2. I would really like to tell her I'm taking this opportunity while she's going to be gone to have some "healing" time for me and D4 and we won't be responding to her texts and calls unless there's an emergency, of course. I'd also like to say that it's inconsiderate of her to text and call us when she's with OW2 and that I won't be a part of it.
I feel like this is the right thing to do but always want to keep myself in check and make sure I'm not being irrational. I have had a mild case of trying-to-make-sure-I-don't-do-the-wrong-thing during this journey. If things get worse I don't want it to be because of something I did. :)
If I do this W will get angry and accuse me of keeping D4 from her. But in reality every time W calls and tries to talk to D4 on the phone, D4 doesn't want to talk and sits there staring at the phone refusing to say anything. and this last time D4 told me after we hung up that she only wants to talk to W when she's with her in person. We normally have a regular routine where W sees D4 and it really irritates me to see D4 upset when W has these times of not being around. I want to protect her from that as much as possible plus set a boundary that calling us while with OW2 is NOT okay. these are my two reasons for this no contact decision.
So is this a rational thing to do? and aside from this specific situation how do you guys handle the amount of contact when you have young kids?
2. Anyone have any information on when the alienator is someone from their past? I think it's a good thing in my situation (it's the woman she was with when we met) but I would love to hear other stories of this kind of thing or get any insight anyone might have about it.
Thank you so much! I can't say that enough... I don't know what I would do without this place. :)
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how do you go nc when h still lives at home ?
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Anyone have any information on when the alienator is someone from their past?
MLC is a regression, and it is pretty common for the alienator to be someone from the past - a high school sweetheart, etc.
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I need some advise please. I am just over a year post BD and have been told that I have a clinging boomerang. He still shows up each weekend to mow the yard, ate dinner here last week, and took the boys and I to dinner last Monday for S21's birthday.
My runaway sometimes responds to e-mails and texts, yet at other times ignores them completely. I only contact him about bills and things that I need to address with him about our sons.
At the moment I am extremely frustrated that he ignores important e-mail or text questions. I was reading in standing actions and elsewhere that because he is probably a clinging boomerang he still recognizes me as the spouse, yet he will tell others that he is divorced, when we are not divorced. This seems conflicting.
I have never really blasted him about anything but find it very rude that he chooses when to respond and when to ignore. I was thinking about telling him that it is very disrespectful when he ignores my e-mails and text messages. Is this a good idea? If so, how should I phrase this? Do I make a point of saying it in person?
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I have never really blasted him about anything but find it very rude that he chooses when to respond and when to ignore.
My husband did this for much of the crisis, too. It is annoying. Do your texts/emails require a response - are you asking him questions that need to be answered, or are they just informative? If they are informative, then just let it slide. Try to let your MLCer control communication if you can, and really unless it is an emergency try to handle things yourself as much as possible.
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I agree with trusting, and went through the same thing early on, too. Know that pointing out to him that he's being rude won't necessarily garner you the result of having him change his behavior - on the contrary, he may start being even ruder, as he will just think you are judging him or telling him what to do.
Treat it with the weight you would if any other person - one of your kids, a co-worker, or family member - did the same thing. Since he's still coming around often, you might save the important things for in-person contact, so you can more than likely get an immediate response.
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thank you all for the great advice.
I sent her a text explaining what I am doing and why I am doing it.
her reply is pretty script but it still feels yucky. I was much more comfortable in that place I was in before this boundary. I know it was the right thing to do but it doesn't feel so good.
her reply...
"Ok I understand the not texting or calling when I'm w <OW2 name> but I'm in <City out of state> by myself why can I not text or call or Skype <D4>
I will be home Friday night. .This is my weekend and will pick her up at the appropriate time and take her to school on Monday
And you're intention to hurt me by using <D4> is working so good job on that "
I wanted so badly to explain myself some more. I hate being misunderstood. but I held my ground and replied with..
"Okay. See you Saturday at 11am."
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I wanted so badly to explain myself some more. I hate being misunderstood. but I held my ground and replied with..
"Okay. See you Saturday at 11am."
Well done, ShineOn. :)
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"Saturday at 11am."
Would have been enough
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Hi all - could someone please help me on my thread - have a difficult conversation to have and don't know how to handle it..... thank you.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3599.110
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Need help also.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3689.60
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Need help desperately on my thread!
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3441.msg225160#msg225160
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My W just filed for Divorce. We are in house with 2 kids.
What are some examples of healthy needed boundaries for me at this time?
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i need help how do i stop myself from texting h i feel so angry at him and ow? i have been so good nc for the ten days he was away i am going away soon and worried about fil because wont be able to visit everyone says its not my problem but you dont just stop caring but H doesnt seem to care about his dad or anyone apart from himself and ow at moment and it gets me so angry
please help :'(
i have just text him to tell him he forgot his golf clubs i am sick of asking him to leave i cant get him out as i have been informed i cant change the locks i dont let him come home i would rather he didnt but what do i do he wont go says he cant afford to rubbish,,, doesnt want ot more like x
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Dear HDIC I can't offer advice but will make an observation based on my own experience. Anger is good to have but not to act upon. If you have been NC then your text maybe should be calm and rational? I get angry quite a bit but have discovered that if I step back and think of what somebody who I admire would say then I find that I am able to write more effectively.
Sending the text is up to you and I think that you are so right when you say that you can't stop caring.
This is when the wisdom of more experienced LBSers is so important.
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My W just filed for Divorce. We are in house with 2 kids.
What are some examples of healthy needed boundaries for me at this time?
I don't have kids, so I can't answer from experience on that front. For in-house, I would try to stay separate as much as possible. Be kind to yourself - being served with papers takes awhile to emotionally process. Been there, and I was tough for the most part, but it still hurts to see it in black and white. If you have hobbies you can focus attention on, just anything to keep MLC from being front and center in your life, that would be good. If you plan on keeping the family home, by all means, stay put. If you're going to have to move, packing things up or finding another place sooner may be easier on you than doing it later. An in-house MLCer is bad enough without Ds being filed.
i need help how do i stop myself from texting h i feel so angry at him and ow? i have been so good nc for the ten days he was away i am going away soon and worried about fil because wont be able to visit everyone says its not my problem but you dont just stop caring but H doesnt seem to care about his dad or anyone apart from himself and ow at moment and it gets me so angry
He won't care about anyone else but himself while he is in crisis. Accept this, and drop the expectation for him to care. If you can see or inquire about your FIL on your own, I'm sure that is fine. Several people on the forum maintain good relationships with their in-laws, so hopefully you are one, too. Don't worry about whether he cares or not - if he misses time with his FIL, that will be his guilt to carry, not yours.
i have just text him to tell him he forgot his golf clubs i am sick of asking him to leave i cant get him out as i have been informed i cant change the locks i dont let him come home i would rather he didnt but what do i do he wont go says he cant afford to rubbish,,, doesnt want ot more like x
Don't text him! I believe Stayed's rubber band trick (put it around your wrist and pop it when you get the urge to text him to remind yourself not to!) is a good one. Are the golf clubs really in your way? Can they just go in a corner of the garage or something, or in a closet for now? Most MLCers do leave a lot of their belongings behind. They are escaping, and it doesn't make sense to them to completely detach. It is a big pain for the LBS, no doubt. My xH's stuff is taking up an entire side of my garage, and I'm almost certain he will never pick it up now as he lives out of state for as long as this stuff is going to last. But you are keeping the drama going for yourself if you nitpick over these little things for now. The main thing you needed out, the MLCer, is out - the stuff won't matter much as time progresses.
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Hi readytotransform
rubber band ssounds like a good thing yes will try that one. i am going to put htem in garage dont like having reminders of him here he is starting to leave more stuff at home now after shave toothbrushes etc beofre he didnt do this he took atuff becuase i packed it .
you right about fil and i do keep in touch my mil died a year ago and all those memories are coming back just dont want to go through that again my fil keeos telling me how much he loves me for things i do for him he still ny sons grandad
i have him at home and have got decree nisi but he not pushed for absolute am still waiting for him to sort finances out at first he told me i had to sell house then he was gonna buy it throw me and son on street and move ow in denied saying that now he wnats me to have house but not doing anything to move it on sorry for rnat again lol i get on a roll xxthank you for your advice rubber band tomorrow ;D
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Ugh, the back and forth and the threats like that are so scary. Already having some legal stuff in place, you know your rights and that he isn't going to be the one in total control. They sure throw us for a loop though! It's beautiful that you and your FIL are still close, and most definitely that will be to your son's benefit. {{{hugs}}} It gets better!
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Ok..this is all new to me. I have asked or talked about the H in other threads I'm just wondering hiw do ik where H is at in this while process? Things have nit been "bad" till about Dec 2012 then in Feb 2013 H said he was looking for a place. We fought A LOT! I would say mean stuff like I don't care leave if u dont like It..ect.. I guess I said F-off alot and FU a lot..I had left a yr previous to this because i wasnt happy in the marriage and I believe that also had to do with my dad passing away the yr before. I guess I'm confused now. He had said he was tired of takin care of others n it was time for him n he slept a lot, we fought alot, n he was seeing the now OW n i didn't know. He drinks everyday now even before je goes ti work at the prison. He sees our S11 a cpl days a week so i just dont know if maybe he really just wasnt happy or if he is in a stage of this MLC? The OW drinks daily also as they are now buying a house n living together...I'm just at a loss maybe I really did ruin it in the beginning as i was bein just as mean towards him as he was me n that it really is over? This is all just so new I had never even heard of this before I started tryin to find out what may be wrong with him. Any thing would help at this point.. do I still talk to him or do I back away n let him live his life? I don't want a D but I dont want him to not come back either...
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There are lots of links about the stages through the articles on the main site here: http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html
It sounds like he is in Replay, and since this is still very new he will probably be there for quite some time. Relax - we all say the 'wrong' things at first. I don't think they are actually wrong, because we absolutely have the right to express ourselves in our relationships, MLC or not. I called my xH every name in the book. He doesn't even remember most of that (he actually told me that!).
It is very normal to spend the early stages as an LBS looking for "proof" this is MLC and that you're not wasting your time. With time, if it is MLC, trust me, you will see it. If it's not, the time will help you heal and move on. MLC or not, it's still best to just focus on you. This equates to backing away and letting him live his life, but still communicating when he initiates. There is nothing wrong with kindness, but set healthy boundaries - the opposite of not being mean does not equate to being a doormat.
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i have a question
is my h in replay or am i just thinking the wrong things ?
having a bad day today h responed to solicitor letter after 10 weeks but wont give what i wanted in my counter offer to his do thye leave you homeless and penniless and have no conscience ? but leave ow everything you have worked for i feeel so angry tonight that i might havbe to lose my home
please advise , is it only early days still bd jan 2012 he has been monster then nice then monster just last week he apologised for putting me through what i am going through bt then this pops up now i rang and text him wish i hadnt now :'(
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Answered on your thread. :)
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LBS2013 I'm going to open you a thread of your own (or try too...)
Here it is: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3747.0 - LBS2013 Story (we can change the title if you like).
Good people of the board and mentors, please be so kind to take a look at LBS2013 thread and give her a help. Thanks.
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Hello mentors all.
Do you have any wisdom about why and when in the process an H might start looking back at childhood/foo issues.
My h has started to approach the death of his father for which he never fully grieved 40 yrs ago and that of his mum earlier this year after 10 yrs of Alzheimer's. He was an ostrich throughout her illness and I saw her more than he did. He has refused to talk about dad over the years we've been together partly because he watched him die and felt guilty that he couldn't save him,same for his mum too.
H has just visited grave for first time since she died and is very keen to restore some old sound recordings of his dad.
I'm intrigued. Is this common and does it suggest a tentative hanging around the tunnel entrance or just a respite from replay?
Edit: answered on your thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3720.msg225897#msg225897
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Need advice/support/ something posted on my thread :-[ Thanks.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3605.msg226889#msg226889
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Why the need for secrecy?
My spouse has hidden his home for the last 19 months from his children. He begrudgingly gave the address to me when I asked but only because I pushed the point. He has never taken his children for more than a few hours at a time. He has hidden his life from us. There have been woman since before he left and now there is one woman. This has all been hidden. I am not sure if this woman is open to his friends or not. I know the others have not. He hides me from her (well my texts) at least.
I don't understand the secrecy. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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From a psychological perspective, I think this is part of the compartmentalizing between the two lives. I think there is guilt and shame and an underlying knowing that his actions are wrong that he and his "shadow self" want to keep hidden. Of course, this doesn't work in the real world, which is why it becomes more and more evident how ridiculous it is, which makes him run that much harder from the truth of what he's done. If he legitimizes it by making it public, it will make it more permanent. Somewhere in there, I believe they know that this is not going to last.
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Maybe one of the reasons is that they don't want (can't bare the idea of) us knocking on their door.
It may be shame but some don't have children and are divorced from the LBS so it all seems too silly. Mr J never put his real current address with OW2 on his divorce court case. He pretends that his official address is in a county where he does not live or has ever lived at.
Came on, would be really want our spouse to come by the place where we lead our fake life? We may discover it is all a fantasy, they are not happy and the rest of the lot and that would force them to face something they are not ready to face.
It could also be that it is one more way for them to try to make us get angry at them and make question, hence give them attention and provoke interaction and/or monster.
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From a psychological perspective, I think this is part of the compartmentalizing between the two lives. I think there is guilt and shame and an underlying knowing that his actions are wrong that he and his "shadow self" want to keep hidden. Of course, this doesn't work in the real world, which is why it becomes more and more evident how ridiculous it is, which makes him run that much harder from the truth of what he's done. If he legitimizes it by making it public, it will make it more permanent. Somewhere in there, I believe they know that this is not going to last.
I agree with this. I also think it may partly be a control thing. MLCers have this need to be in control (ironic since they have spun their lives completely out of control) of every aspect of their lives and not answer to anyone. I see that in my H's case. He still lives at home, has never moved out, and he does his best to keep as much of his life a "secret" from me. I am not even talking about anything having to do with a potential OW (and indeed that has been very well hidden), but everything. He doesn't tell me much about work, about communication with his family, about any of his plans. It is all Top Secret Information. What was that line from Seinfeld years ago? It's all "in the vault?"
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Why the need for secrecy?
My spouse has hidden his home for the last 19 months from his children. He begrudgingly gave the address to me when I asked but only because I pushed the point. He has never taken his children for more than a few hours at a time. He has hidden his life from us. There have been woman since before he left and now there is one woman. This has all been hidden. I am not sure if this woman is open to his friends or not. I know the others have not. He hides me from her (well my texts) at least.
I don't understand the secrecy. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
7 months in I'm clueless where the mrs lives... We do family stuff every week ... Confuses me
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New question...
Ok, so most of the stories im reading the men are still home...my H left 3mths ago so how do i keep in contact with him as Ow won't allow him to talk to me much? H does call n comes to see me when she goes to work though he is usually drunk, as he drinks daily now and he is very sad crying and talking of wanting to run away and suicide...how do i help him and get him to see that I am also becoming a better person/wife that I used to be? This whole thing has me mind boggled and I have read RCR's blog post things and its still just as confusing as I don't know where he is at in the stages. Please any advice is appreciated.
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Ok, so most of the stories im reading the men are still home...
First of all, most of the men actually are not still home. There are a few that are but almost all leave home at some point, even if it isn't a quick exit.
It sounds like you actually have a significant amount of contact with your husband. Keep letting him control the contact.
how do i help him and get him to see that I am also becoming a better person/wife that I used to be?
While he is in crisis, there is really nothing you can do to "help" him. They have to go through it, and MLCers need to go through it on their own. Keep an eye out and intervene if you really do think he is serious about suicide, though. As far as your changes, the best way to show someone is to just be consistent. He may test you to see if the changes are real, but honestly that may not happen until later in the crisis when his head clears a bit.
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Trusting..yea I do have some contact with him I sometimes tell him if u wanna call later you can n he does for the better part, however he thinks when I say that it somehow involves sex. Lol. Not all the time though, simetimes its just to say I was thinking about u and hope ur doin good n other times yea its for sex... Idk if any women have ever been to the house where the H and Ow live but I have..my H has always been a bit of a risk taker and with him drinking so much that's usually the time he starts talking crazy. Idk how he is sober anymore the only time I see H is when he has been drinking. S17 says he drinks all the time everyday though, even before work. I let him know I'm here for him and im not giving up on us or leaving...though it dies cross my mund quit often simply cause he says hes never ciming home and he is buying this house with Ow. So I guess my H would be a boomerang? They are very hard to read during this..
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New thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3763.0