Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Thundarr on June 29, 2013, 10:16:19 AM
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Very interesting article that resonates with me and will with most here I would say (credit to Rover77). I find it very interesting that men really ARE as likely to forgive an affair as women are, but am also a bit down about the assertion that affairs need to be brought into the open to be dealt with and recovered from. It makes me wonder if I should have handled things differently with respect to XW and suspected OM lawyer boy......
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity
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Well Frank Pittman is a big believer in EXPOSURE.
That does not mean that just because you expose the affair that it will go away.
I wish I knew but like everything else it is a crap shoot.
Some people swear by it and others like MWD think it is a mistake.
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MLC is a bigger issue than an affair itself.....which is part of the reason I've chosen to deal with my situation the way I have.
Authors like Pittman and MWD are excellent sources in their areas. MLC is a different animal.
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I think my husband is definitely MLC but I also think that his is a romantic affair.
Unfortunately he is either in love with OW or he thinks he is.
But interesting article how it says romantic affairs can do thr most damage and how men will give up everything for them. Please God my H doesn't.
I want him to come home and get out of her clutches.
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Well Frank Pittman is a big believer in EXPOSURE.
That does not mean that just because you expose the affair that it will go away.
Exact opposite with MLC (I know RCR has that in one of the articles. It bonds them. "Us against the world!". They go together like Bonnie and Clyde. Death and Dismemberment. ;) Thanks to MammaBear for getting that phrase stuck in my head from her thread.
Having said that, I'm glad I outed Hoss and the OW, because it did have an impact (not on him coming home, but on me not being taken advantage of). You're in a place, T, where I don't think outing it at this point, IMO, would do anything other than put a wedge between you two. It will play out in a way your xW is not planning on, guaranteed. She won't need any salt from you in the wound.
I think my husband is definitely MLC but I also think that his is a romantic affair.
MLC affairs become far more emotionally bonded, for the most part, RCR talks about this, too. Howmanytimes, I'm not going to tell you to prepare for the worst, but with these kinds of women, though they are not the problem, they can certainly blindside us with how much of our lives they can take. Protect yourself. {{{hugs}}}
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I don't think it matters what you do, blow it up or not. But if you do blow it up, it is out in the open, like ripping off a bandaid. It hurts like hell for a while, but not near as long as dragging it out and trying to hide it from everyone in the family.
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I love this article. I bet I've read it 10 times. It's one of the most succinct descriptions of what an affair is and how it happens that's out there. I also like Pittman's book, Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy.
My STBX is definitely an Emotionally Retarded Man in a Romantic Affair. And he's in MLC to boot. Bad combination!
My STBX gave up just about everything to be with OW: his marriage, his family, his savings, his pension, his possessions, his daughter's respect, his home. Everything. And he's still maintaining, 30 months later, that it was the right thing for him to do. He has told me more than once in the last 10 months that he wishes he hadn't had the affair, but that he's certain he "did the will of the gods." ::)
I still have periods where I doubt whether or not he's a true MLCer or just a person who was in an unhappy (from his point of view) marriage. Even after all this time I still wonder. I'm going through the divorce process right now (my STBX filed) and he insists he'll marry OW as soon as it's final, which should be in about 60 days. :-\
In Pittman's book he writes about the bad "odds of survival" of marriages that start off as affairs. My STBX and OW were both married when their affair began over 4 years ago which, according to Pittman, ups the odds the marriage won't last. We'll see. I suspect my STBX's second marriage will last because he paid such a high price to achieve it. Also, because of his (62) and OW's (56) ages, I'd think they'd tend to stay together. Too difficult to go through the financial and emotional trauma of another divorce when you're "older."
Also, my STBX seems to be happy. He has regrets but he's very committed to OW and still speaks of her as though she's indispensible to his happiness. It will be interesting to see where things are 5 years from now.
BTW, Frank Pittman passed away last November. He was 77.
TMHP
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Hi Ready2Transform
I am unable yet to face thr idea of him not returning. It's all too raw at the moment
He left me one week ago today after being together 35 years and M 32.
When I found out initially about his 6 year affair with OW, he told me he could live without her but he couldn't live without me. He also said that towards the end of the affair that he was wanting out but was afraid she would tell me. Now he lies. So that might be true or not.
Last week Tuesday he told me that he was really unhappy and he should be feeling happy but was miserable like he was being pulled in two. He said he was beginning to regret leaving me. I said good come home. I love you and you are welcome home any time. He said he probably would be coming home a couple of times to me last week. Now he visits me today to see his cat and mow our lawn and I think because he is missing me and says he hasn't made up his mind.
Do you know what I think? She's being on her bestest behaviour. Giving him loads of sex and he is blinded by her. Although I do accept that he has feelings for her and yet when he finished with her before he didn't seem overly upset by it. I think he is one very confused man.
He even said that he wished she would prove difficult to live with.
He also told me today that next week he has a appointment with a Lawyer. I just hope this Lawyer tells him that not only will he loose a minimum of half the house ( my Lawyer says more like 75%) but also have to pay me spousal maintenance and half his pension pot.
My H at 53 has about 13 years left of working life. When he retires if we divorce he will have a substantially reduced pension and he talks about getting a mortgage so he doesn't have to live in her tiny 1 bed apartment in a horrible part of London. His crackers.
But I don't know if he may come home with his tail between his legs in the next few weeks. Elieve me it is possible or he is prepared to work hard, which he does anyway to be fair, and be considerably poorer.
These MLC men are nuts
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I am so sad to read about the romantic affair. Like you, I think my husband in on that journey :-(
I cried and cried when I read this thread. It is like there is not hope.
Hy H is very in love with OW, according to him. So much so that he'd rather stay with her than me or his kids. D17 is on good terms with him eventhough she is angry at him and disapprove of the woman he is with.
He hasn't filed for a divorce and neither have I. I am a nervous nelly everyday.
What are the chances of him waking up?
At least me misses you Howmanytimes. Mine just ignores me, completely. I am still so hurt.
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Oh Eloise, hugs to you and I mean it.
I think going through what we are makes us feel so much for others in our predicament.
How long has his affair been going on? When did he leave?
It's like a living nightmare. All I have eaten today is some weetabix and milk (English breakfast cereal). I had to force them down me. I have been drinking lots of water though.
I feel like I'm going insane because it's like one minute he is saying his made a mistake and will come home and then he hasn't made up his mind whether or not he will come home and is seeing a Lawyer.
What frightens me though is that last week I got drunk on Thursday and I left about 30 really threatening voicemails. Like I would kill him or hunt her down and kill her. I feel guilty if I kill a fly and that is no exaggeration. But what if he uses the to get a divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour. I am hoping to make him wait 5 years which you can in the UK if you do not consent to the divorce but sometimes people can get a divorce on their spouse unreasonable behaviour and I'm terrified he asnt deleted them and will use them to do just that.
I'm sti king to water from now on as I can't trust myself to start drinking.
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According to HIM, it started, physical affair, like 6 months ago. I doubt it. I think he started it a year ago.
I guess I can consider myself to be rather calm during this whole ordeal. My darkest days are beyond me. Of course I still think about it and cry and feel sad but I guess as long as he is willing to pay ALL my bills i will give him some time and space. Although, I am filing for legal spousal support and maintenance. Can't trust those MLCers.
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Mine lied about the length of the affair when I first found out said it was three years. I became a detective and went into his google history and he had searched the place she works and that was thee years previously. He said year it was three years. Well being an idiot I rang the floozy up and she said six years. He then confirmed that was correct.
I know about the crying too. It's like one minute you think you are strong and then thr next your howling
Take care.
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Exposure does take some of the "fun" out of it for them. They are like teenagers trying to get away with something.
After I found out he divorced me in two months. and moved her in two weeks after the divorce was final. Then moved her out 4 months later. The kids and I moved back in and then he kicked me out. Then assaulted me after I came back to get some of my things. There is no way back for him.
There is NO WAY to get passed the infidelity and onto solid ground UNLESS the issues that lead to the affair are discussed.
My heart goes out to those of you who have just been devastated by this tragic turn of events. BUT you must THINK passed what you want to do and think what COULD happen BEFORE you do it.
KEEP YOUR DIGNITY.
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I have not "outed" my H's affair. A few people know, but not his family. I have a file at work with timelines, phone records, texts, emails and pictures just in case. He never flaunted her obviously, but a few people saw them together and phone records show he was actually texting her while we were at church together. She has since dumped him and unfriended him on FB but I don't know why. I don't think he has replaced her yet.
I'm hoping that if he comes out of the tunnel in a year or so, the fact that I didn't shout from the rooftops about his infidelity will work in our favor when and if we r.
The minute he files for D however, the gloves come off and everything becomes public......I will name adultery as a response to his filing for D.
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my exH definitely fits the emotionally retarded description which is also in line with SIL's comments that their mother is emotionally immature. I sent an email to her thanking her for all she had done for me since H left but that I would find it difficult to continue seeing her if she was now entertaining OW2 along with H. So she then tells SIL she is not to see me anymore and just cuts me out of everything in anger. Any wonder where exH learnt his coping skills from?
he left his first wife after 10 years and then me after 10. He cheated on OW1 to be with OW2 and they have been together a year now. Not sure when the wedding will be ::) ::) ::)
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In my case I think that not busting XW out actually played to my advantage when we were mediating the D. There had been a few sticking points in the months leading up to our mediation and making the Separation Agreement, and I casually let XW know that my L had told me to expect having to go before the judge and I simply said that I had a "list of people I was going to subpoena if I had to" and named lawyer boy and his W in the middle of the list. I played it cool as if lawyer boy was simply someone in the crowd but I could tell that XW looked like a deer in headlights (she works at the courthouse and none of her co-workers know anything, and she would lose her job as a sworn deputy cavorting with one of the lawyers who she sends info on cases to). The night before mediation XW called me and offered me everything. Literally everything. She even mentioned her paying CS for the first time and said we could go by the state guidelines. I chose to take a 3rd party role and said that I was sure my L would be agreeable to that (I often acted as if the fight was not between XW and I and said I paid my L to handle all that for me; it kept things peaceful between XW and I). When all was said and done, things went about as well for me as was possible and XW's "friends" never had to testify nor did XW or I ever see the inside of a courtroom. Had I played my trump card beforehand and busted her out to her friends in her office, then I would not have had that bit of leverage and would likely have come out much worse off. And in the back of my mind I didn't want XW to end the affair (again, assuming there is one) because of discovery but because she wanted to. If she didn't want to choose me over him, I really didn't want her back anyway. I deserve better and so do all of you.
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My H fits both the romantic and emotionally retarded. H is addicted to OW who is not a "wonderful person" as she is married to but her H says that my H makes her happy!! So we are definitely out in the open here!
OW is definitely damsel (dumsel) and H is knight in shining armour who doesn't want to commit to her so won't leave home because he knows the reality of it all is futile but it stops him feeling suicidal/depressed (almost exact quite from him).
Death of mother and 2 ds having left home and pressure of business certainly laid the ground work for numbness and no pain and yes OW did jerk him out of this by doing what I apparently "failed to do".
H has acknowledged depression and suicidal thoughts but refuses the concept of help as that isn't the answer - he doesn't know what is but he's not going to give OW up (addiction)
Me - I am observing, watching and learning all the time.
Time is what will tell ......
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Some years ago, I came across an interesting blog/story written by a man. He had left his wife to be with OW and he was going back and forth. At the end, he finally managed to distance himself from OW, by doing no contact, and was hoping to reconnect with his wife, but she seemed to have moved on, so now he had neither.
It was quite an open accounting of his feelings and his remorse and while MLC was not mentioned, I think, it was very interesting read "from the other side". However, I don't have the link anymore, does anyone know what I am talking about and could give it to me?
Thanks,
Fran
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Some years ago, I came across an interesting blog/story written by a man. He had left his wife to be with OW and he was going back and forth. At the end, he finally managed to distance himself from OW, by doing no contact, and was hoping to reconnect with his wife, but she seemed to have moved on, so now he had neither.
It was quite an open accounting of his feelings and his remorse and while MLC was not mentioned, I think, it was very interesting read "from the other side". However, I don't have the link anymore, does anyone know what I am talking about and could give it to me?
Thanks,
Fran
I read it about a year ago, I don't have the link. It was an interesting read, but if that is what goes through their mind we are better off that they've left. Sometimes it appears as if there was an underlying personality disorder which comes forth when hormone levels shift at middle age for both men and women, they become narcissists. I'm not sure why anyone would want to be the spare tire they go back to because the glow of the OW/OM has burned off and nobody else is readily available.
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I would be interested in reading this article as well. It sounds like a fascinating read.
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Wanted to bring this thread back up as theres plenty of articles to read .............found another that i think relates to addiction with drinking, o/w
etc..................http://gettinbetter.com/addiction.html
Link to other articles below
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2908.0
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Just wanted to share a TED talk I saw yesterday which has helped me understand more about my MLC husband.
http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
and this one too
http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_listening_to_shame.html
I will probably find out that posting links isn't allowed. But do have a look, I particularly found the Vulnerability talk very powerful.
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Very interesting on Vulnerability - especially the part about being unable to selectively 'numb' some feelings and not others. Makes sense.
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Thanks for posting this. I also found those TED talks helpful in terms of my own work. I am a big fan of Brene's book "The Gifts of Imperfection", also for my own work. For what it is worth...
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Thank you Sunny!
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No problem posting outside links on this forum Sunny. RCR doesn't mind.
These have been posted before somewhere, a while ago.
They're great. Really worthwhile talks with a lot of good things to consider.
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I'm not sure if this is the right place or way to post this but I found this article on Salon.com and, although it's not exactly MLC, her standing actions sounded very much like the way we feel.
Although I LOVE LOVE LOVE this forum and am SO INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL for everyone here... It's nice to read about someone outside of this forum who feels the same way we do. :)
Enjoy.
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/boyfriend_choosing_between_us/
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Thank you for sharing. I love that she expressed the reason why she didn't kick him to the curb. When others were telling her it was time to do so. Because she LOVED him. It really can be that simple. I appreciate her saying how it wasn't because she was co-dependent. But that she loved him. And her self-discovery is much like what we are experiencing - what I know I am experiencing! It really is a beautiful thing!
Thanks again!
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But.....the question is what should we do when THEY kick US to the curb?
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But.....the question is what should we do when THEY kick US to the curb?
We love them unconditionally just as we would if they had some other kind of mental health issue or disease..just as Christ does.
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Yes, I think the whole point is that her happiness isn't dependent on his decision. She's working on herself and when that point comes she'll be okay either way. I think that's why we always say time is our friend. I'm doing my healing in my own time and hopefully I'll still be open to the possibility when my wife pulls her head out. :)
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The article was excellent. I need to print it and show it to my D24 who thinks by standing, I am "waiting" for my H to get his head out. Big difference between the two. Thanks for sharing that with all of us! Excellent article.
Blessings to all ~
CT
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Awesome link! Thanks for sharing :)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/great-betrayals.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp
This is a great two page summary of what happens to the LBS. Unfortunately, it points out that the MLC liar gets a fairly easy pass.
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Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.
This was the ending line of the article. And it is how I feel.
Being betrayed on just about every possible level in my perception cuts cleanly..but definitely not with the maturity level that I would have liked. Speed of light is a factor also.
A more mature way of handling the divorce etc.. may have led to an easier way to possibly solve the problems and reconcile. But oh well again NOT my choice.
So I'm left with more trust issues than I had before if that's even possible..just more work to do on myself. I can't change him or them.
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Interesting article, FTT. It's said on here a lot that it's better to be the LBS than the MLCer, but this article seems to refute that.
No, we don't get to make the choices about what's happening to us. But a lot of life is like that. We do get a harder row to hoe, but it can still be done. We can make the new beginnings also and embrace them. And most observers love a train wreck, so they can speculate all they want on my IQ and knowledge of what was going on. They don't live my life and I don't have to entertain their conclusions.
Life, the Universe, whatever, comes up with some diabolical deeds that we are left holding the bag on and need to choose how to respond. All our life experiences mold our future handling of these things. I for one am working diligently on myself so I don't repeat past mistakes that have led to this point in my life. I am not taking the blame for my H leaving, I am however taking the blame for not responding in a more controlled and thoughtful fashion. Future events will no longer leave me a puddle on the floor. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I am now an experienced pro at dealing with the unthinkable.
I do agree with the psychiatrist that we have a lot of work ahead of us to weave the fabric of our lives back together so it makes sense. We are so devastated initially, it seems like it makes more sense for the apple to fall up rather than down. But upon reflection, we get our "A-Ha" moments and another piece of the puzzle falls into place.
The key here, for me anyway, is to have the savvy not to continue in the same patterns of action. To have enough sense to say upfront and clearly what I am feeling, seeing, experiencing in order to take proper corrective action for ME. If it affects me, it's up to me to decide how to proceed. I need to consider other people's responses as less important. I always put everyone else ahead of me and I have learned that it doesn't help me and often exacerbates the situation.
I do think the article sheds light on how difficult this is for the betrayed. Maybe it's time for a grass roots movement to lend support to those whose lives are in total upheaval and reconstruction phases.
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"How could this have possibly happened to us?"
That is what went through my mind over and over and over again for years. I could not make sense, our life which seemed so secure had been totally shattered by the person who I would never have expected could do so.
And it shuts us down, if we allow it...it is like going into a cave and having a heavy stone rolled across the opening, it can prevent us from experiencing a sense of trust and safety ever again.
Very good article, thanks for sharing.
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"Ironically, however, in my clinical experience, it is often the person who lied or cheated who has the easier time. People who transgressed might feel self-loathing, regret or shame. But they have the possibility of change going forward, and their sense of their own narrative, problematic though it may be, is intact. They knew all along what they were doing and made their own decisions. They may have made bad choices, but at least those were their own and under their control. Now they can make new, better choices."
True
"And to an astonishing extent, the social blowback for such miscreants is often transient and relatively minor. They can change! Our culture, in fact, wholeheartedly supports such “new beginnings” — even celebrates them. It has a soft spot for the prodigal sons and daughters who set about repairing their ways, for tales of people starting over: reformed addicts, unfaithful spouses who rededicate themselves to family, convicted felons who find redemption in religion."
"But for the people who have been lied to, something more pervasive and disturbing occurs. They castigate themselves about why they didn’t suspect what was going on. The emotions they feel, while seemingly more benign than those of the perpetrator, may in the long run be more corrosive: humiliation, embarrassment, a sense of having been naïve or blind, alienation from those who knew the truth all along and, worst of all, bitterness."
Kind of true. More true is the fact that often the cheater (MLCer or not) does get a free pass, suffers minor financial upheaval and can, indeed, start a new life even after all their mistakes.
We're told we rather be the LBS than the MLCer because it is not very pleasant to go through a MLC. But once the crisis is over the MLCer may be better off than the LBS.
In fact, even during the MLC, many MLCers lead a much more secure and affluent financial life than the LBS. It is the LBS that often has to live with scarcity. And if divorce comes (and was not in place right from the star) the LBS may had lived years of hardships to end up with nothing.
In a way most MLCers always end up better than the LBS. They will either return, and be accept by the LBS, or they will had lived years of madness of their choice, and will end up with enough money and assets, plus a divorce, to start afresh. The LBS is left with crumbs.
In fact many LBS have to live with crumbs during the many years an MLCer yakes in their crisis. If you ask me I'm not really capable of seeing the point of such thing. For the sake of a possible better marriage that may never happen?
Given my experience I think everyone here knows that I advice to divorce or legally protect the finances right from the start. I had no idea what I was dealing with and saw my lifestyle drop since Mr J left.
That sort of imbalance is certainly no way to reconcile a marriage, let alone to make it be a good one in the future. Exactly what would we be telling the MLCer? It is fine, you can go and live many years leading the highlife while you assume no responsibilities and if/when you're done, me/LBS, who has been living with crumbs and trying to lead a dignified life, will take you back.
They are in crisis, we know that. But does that mean they get a free pass? I'm certain many of you will say they do not get a free pass. For me they do. Or at least many of them do. There are barely any consequences for their actions.
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They are in crisis, we know that.
I'm certain many of you will say they do not get a free pass. For me they do. Or at least many of them do. There are barely any consequences for their actions.
So where is the crisis then?
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The existence of a crisis does not mean that those who are having it suffer consequences, or are the ones who suffer the harder consequences of said crisis.
Think what happend with the banks (not sure if it the same consequences, or lack of, were the same in the US as in Europe - the issues come from US subprime crisis and cross the pond). Bankers, at least over here, are not the ones who are hit by their own actions, regular people are.
The financial, and now economical crisis is very real, but I don't think bankers and financiers are being very affected by it.
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The existence of a crisis does not mean that those who are having it suffer consequences, or are the ones who suffer the harder consequences of said crisis.
Think what happend with the banks (not sure if it the same consequences, or lack of, were the same in the US as in Europe - the issues come from US subprime crisis and cross the pond). Bankers, at least over here, are not the ones who are hit by their own actions, regular people are.
The financial, and now economical crisis is very real, but I don't think bankers and financiers are being very affected by it.
Precisely, the bankers themselves didn't have a crisis, they simply caused one. The bankers still got their big salaries and bonuses and were baled out by governments. It is the same for abandoners, betrayers and adulterers, they are not in crisis, they cause crises. They are off having their sexual relationships, discarding their children, spending money, travelling, telling lies with impunity and living out their fantasies. It is the people who find their way to forums like this that have the crisis, the problems, the heartache, the identity crisis, the financial stresses, the home evictions, the traumas, the questions of conscience, the children to raise single-handedly, the cruel and savage treatment at the hands of lawyers and courts, etc etc
So when I see statements of fact such as "They are in crisis, we know that.", my mind says, "Do we? Do we really know that?" If I think back to three years ago I sure knew I had a crisis. Not knowing if I wanted live, not knowing if I could work, put one foot in front of the other and not knowing if I would stay sane, would count as a crisis in anyone's book. How did my wife feel at that time? In her own words, "I feel like I have discovered myself."
Are they really in a crisis? Do we really know that? If, as the article points out, they get an easy pass, then what really is the nature of the crisis they are having?
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To be accurate the new York Times article not about MLC. It is about people who, after many years, found out that their loved ones were leading a double llife.
"They were people who had suddenly discovered that their life, as they knew it, was based on a long-term falsehood. They were people who might have stumbled across family secrets on the Internet or found old bills from a spouse’s long-hidden liaisons."
There is a difference between someone who has lead a long life lie and an MLCer who was trying, but nor really managing, to cover their lies. At least mine was a bad liar and I suspected another person months before he left. of course he denied but I did not bite it.
Still, I think the MLCer does get it pretty easy on the end. Or in most cases they do. What is the point of their crisis? Aks those here who have had one.
The bankers were high on adrenaline, coke or addicted to win. One could could say that they were umbalanced. Of course they don't have to deal with the consequences of he crisis they created, we have.
Not sure if the LBS has an identity crisis. I didn't. And I knew mine MLCer was becoeming someone I had never seen before. So, a change was happening. i would had never married the MLC version.
Was your wife the way she is in MLC when you meet her/married her? If so, why did you married her?...
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An article called "I Love You but I'm Not In Love With You" was posted on the Psychology Today website: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/schlepping-through-heartbreak/201310/i-love-you-i-m-not-in-love-you?tr=MostViewed
It was one of the most viewed articles. Wow, that in itself is disturbing.
I found the article disheartening and is causing me to question my H's abandonment. I am questioning whether this is just what happened to our marriage and whether that is just how my H felt.
I know that what Vikki Stark says is not new. I also haven't read her book "Runaway Husbands."
I would like to hear others thoughts on the article?
OMJ
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I find it really dismissive. I most definitely wouldn't be taking myself or my family for therapy with the author. I expect that I would find her books disturbing too.
I think the situation happens in a lot of marriages. I work with a lady who said that she was unhappy in her marriage for 10 years but is now super grateful that she stuck it out because she is more in love than ever before.
We are a very disposable society and this article seems to say that it's ok to change your mind and that when you do - it's over. No one is encouraged to fight for it anymore or to ride the lows the follow the highs. The article doesn't say much about whether or not the person delivering the ILYBINILWY speech has spoken up before or actively tried to re-engage in the marriage. Most of us here have found that ours did not. That is a characteristic of MLC.
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It's just one person's opinion and it doesn't speak of the aftermath.
We all know about the BD, but what about what comes after? The strange behaviour, the chaos, the confusion,...
Anyone could have written that article.
Rollocks!
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Read the article with an open mind. I was also one of many who got the ILYBNILWY speech after a 28 yr marriage. Have been divorced a long time and like in the next to last paragraph of the article, my ex thinks we are friends, and we get along fairly well and he gives me a hug on greeting each other, blah, blah.
After reading the article the first thought that came to me was--How do you reignite the spark again?? What changed that made these WAS see us in a differentlight, a romantic, sexual way again? Perhaps someone who has been reconciled can tell us what turned the tide for their spouse.
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After reading the article the first thought that came to me was--How do you reignite the spark again??
I agree that society today is too into disposable and easy......it expects the "actions" to follow the "feelings" when in reality it is the other way around. If you don't "feel" like you love your spouse then start "acting" like it. The feelings will follow as you perform the actions. Its called comittment and sacrifice as opposed to selfishness. IMO.
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I didn't get to read the article as I'm at work. I will later.
But, I will say that I agree with others here that our society has become way too disposable. You get bored of one person, so hey, lets find another. It shouldn't be that easy or that accepted.
Every single relationship on the face of this earth hits bumps. I haven't been happy in mine for probably 10 years now. Doesn't mean I wasn't trying. Doesn't mean the whole 10 years was a horror story. We hit a snag. I figured we would get the spark back at some point. I was willing to wait. To keep trying. Still am I suppose.
I think people have forgotten family values. How many people eat dinner together? It's just not there anymore and it's quite sad.
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The writer is a family therapist? That in itself speaks volumes - how can someone with such an infantile attitude towards long term relationships and families be a family therapist?
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That writer is a Negative Nancy
Obviously her parents didn't hug her very much when she was little.
Geez lady.
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The internet of full of this kind of garbage. I have seen worse, too.
All a lot of these psychologists know is what they are told by their patients. Not only most people aren't in tune with their feelings and thoughts but most aren't honest about them either.
So all these psychologists know is what they hear and interprete it according to their own thoughts and their own feelings at the time the stories are told.
Their conclusions are drawn out of anecdotes, not out of true, raw feelings and life experience.
I'd bet she's not happy...
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Article was way too short and short sighted. But there was some quality input in the comments section. I added this:
I had these words spoken to me by my wife. 6 weeks later I found out about the affair. I know of others who had the same experienced in addition to the people posting here.
I agree with many of the posters here that it is a bit of a cop out. Losing the spark, the feelings, the desire, whatever term you use to describe it, is likely to happen, especially (in my case) during the period of raising children, starting businesses, growing into midlife, etc. Divorce almost never solves this problem. It is a signal that it is time to do the work!! Time to break yourself open and for your spouse to do the same. Then you get to know each other completely and your love can be more complete. Imperfect for sure, but complete and human. That is the next level.
Not sure if I will get there as my wife has filed and is not willing to work on it. But I can envision it.
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I have read her book and the article and I do not believe her theory. I think she followed 400 or 700 women but she did not study them over the period of several years which would be necessary when we are dealing with MLC.
I know from other's experience and from my own situation, our marriages are NOT over, not unless the LBSer doesn't want to wait the several years that it is going to take for their spouse to become whole enough, and healed enough that they awaken to see that the thing that matters to them most is their family.
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My H did the ILYBINILWY in an email to my daughter, but only after he'd met OW, and by then I guess married, not sure. He did it after he'd been gone for 6 or 7 months, and then when he met OW, sent a long email out of the blue to D wanting to take the kids away skiing (he doesn't ski). When I saw the dates later, it made sense. He'd met OW, and wanted to get the kids alone to tell them, or maybe he finally realised he wasn't coming back. Anyway, regardless, in that email is when he did that line. He has never ever said it to me, or even that we were done, not to my face or even picked up the phone. He has always hidden behind a few small emails, and a couple of txt responses. Ouch, dumped by email after 20+years. Whatever H.
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My H did the ILYBINILWY in an email to my daughter, but only after he'd met OW, and by then I guess married, not sure. He did it after he'd been gone for 6 or 7 months, and then when he met OW, sent a long email out of the blue to D wanting to take the kids away skiing (he doesn't ski). When I saw the dates later, it made sense. He'd met OW, and wanted to get the kids alone to tell them, or maybe he finally realised he wasn't coming back. Anyway, regardless, in that email is when he did that line. He has never ever said it to me, or even that we were done, not to my face or even picked up the phone. He has always hidden behind a few small emails, and a couple of txt responses. Ouch, dumped by email after 20+years. Whatever H.
Wow! That ...all of that....just cannot be taken seriously. That is the most absurd mlc story I have ever heard of!
He's mad!
Oh my god! :o
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I believe that in most of the cases where ILYBNILWY is said, it's because the spouse has already developed feelings for another person. Otherwise how would they remember how the 'in love' feeling is like. Most of us have years long marriages, and that 'in love' 'infatuation' feeling has been long gone... yielding to a more familiar and less intense but stronger, unconditional love. When prompted, I would say in most normal relationships, passion can reignite when prompted...
I've been with XW for 23 years, and married for 14. Did I no longer feel the infatuation like I did when I first met her when I was 20? Yes. Did I choose to destroy the family and divorce her,? No.
The MLCer feels the infatuation and in love feeling with someone else, that's how they know they no longer feel it for you... I'm not saying MLCers don't have issues to resolve and inner child to feed, but they in fact do feel what they feel.
When they tell us how they feel, they are not lying. Not to say they are not liars, but when they say they are not 'in love' with you... that is how they feel. Just pointing that out, sometimes LBSers go into denial saying that no... MLCer is in love with me, they are just sick and lying to me... No, they don't feel in love with you.... maybe that will change maybe not, but don't kid yourself.
I know that to be a fact with my xW. She was physically repulsed by me. It may be all in her head... but that's all that matters.
xW told me her feelings are gone, and they are not coming back... She wanted to feel for me, and wanted to be in love, at first she said it'll takes a little time... but then decided that it can never come back. To me, love is a choice, if I will myself to love someone, especially someone I care about, I can... To her, it's an elusive thing, well beyond her control.
How scary is that? I have no control over whether you love someone or not... Say she finds a new husband, what's to say she won't lose the feeling in two months... How about my poor kids, what if she loses 'feelings' for them and can no longer love them. If everyone thought that way, what kind of society would we have?
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My H had no problems being physically intimate with me. As a matter of fact, our sex life was the best it had ever been the year leading up to BD. so when he told me ILYBINILWY, I was shocked. Obviously there is something there. Ugh.
(When he wasn't having ED problems. Do you think that was because he was in the process of disconnecting from me? Come to think of it, it makes no sense)
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Just to add my two cents here,
I think hobo1 makes a good point. I too think that in my spouse's case, he had been in a major depressive episode leading up to bomb drop where he said he didn't love me right. In hindsight, I have found that he was out with another person. I think that he did start to feel something. This was different from his normal depression so therefore it had to be me that was the problem. He also had very low T that was discovered just prior to BD and that was causing him to have issues in the bedroom. The Doctor prescribed Testosterone and other meds to help with this. I think he does see the correlation to that being a problem with us. He equates it that I was not his cup of tea anymore. (lol).
So I am not sure if it is disconnecting from you in that matter brokenheart but a matter of he had a lot of forces working against him within and he needed someone else to shift that blame to. You happened to be the lucky recipient. (well unlucky).
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I believe that in most of the cases where ILYBNILWY is said, it's because the spouse has already developed feelings for another person. Otherwise how would they remember how the 'in love' feeling is like. Most of us have years long marriages, and that 'in love' 'infatuation' feeling has been long gone... yielding to a more familiar and less intense but stronger, unconditional love. When prompted, I would say in most normal relationships, passion can reignite when prompted...
I've been with XW for 23 years, and married for 14. Did I no longer feel the infatuation like I did when I first met her when I was 20? Yes. Did I choose to destroy the family and divorce her,? No.
The MLCer feels the infatuation and in love feeling with someone else, that's how they know they no longer feel it for you... I'm not saying MLCers don't have issues to resolve and inner child to feed, but they in fact do feel what they feel.
When they tell us how they feel, they are not lying. Not to say they are not liars, but when they say they are not 'in love' with you... that is how they feel. Just pointing that out, sometimes LBSers go into denial saying that no... MLCer is in love with me, they are just sick and lying to me... No, they don't feel in love with you.... maybe that will change maybe not, but don't kid yourself.
I know that to be a fact with my xW. She was physically repulsed by me. It may be all in her head... but that's all that matters.
xW told me her feelings are gone, and they are not coming back... She wanted to feel for me, and wanted to be in love, at first she said it'll takes a little time... but then decided that it can never come back. To me, love is a choice, if I will myself to love someone, especially someone I care about, I can... To her, it's an elusive thing, well beyond her control.
How scary is that? I have no control over whether you love someone or not... Say she finds a new husband, what's to say she won't lose the feeling in two months... How about my poor kids, what if she loses 'feelings' for them and can no longer love them. If everyone thought that way, what kind of society would we have?
I think you nailed it TB, they really can't come up with that line unless they are already feeling it for someone else. I believe there is nearly always a OM/OW well before BD. Even if one does not show up until much later, we may never know about the one that may have scampered when our X's scared them off with wanting a commitment.
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Mlc is a bit more than just about an affair and falling for someone else.
I don't believe at all that there is or was another woman in my mlcer's life. They fell out of love with themselves so they look for change and that may not always include another person.
My mlcer is involved with drugs and obsessed with money.
That's is his rush....and it's....stunt planes, parachute jumps, dirtbike etc..etc...
Although they all go through Mlc, they go about it in different ways.
Some go mad, some withdraw, some linger at their own pity party, some act completely stupid. And there are the lbs reactions and responses....different circumstances, different consequences etc..
Not every mlcer is an adulterer.
They are all kinda deluded, though... :D
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I have one response to that article:
Love is a choice!
Oops, I wrote this without reading Hobo's reply. :-[
What Hobo said.
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Hobo1- I think you nail it. I truely believe STBE is no longer in love with me, but I also truely believe he is not in love with OW. I think he think he is in love but it is really not love. I been in many relationships and I know when I have a rebound that I will wake up one day knowing this is not what I want. I just jumped into another relationship to heal my inner self at the expense of another person.
In college, I date a guy and he said it as well when he decided to go back to his ex-gf. When that relationship ended, he started contacting me again, but I will not take him back. I personnaly believe it takes a great soul for someone to forgive another person when ILYBNILWY is said. It is like a cracked window....always there no matter how hard you try to fix it. Some people can over look it and move on while other cannot stop looking at the crack.
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I remember reading a blog on Divorce Busting about when marriage counselling doesn't work there is usually only one reason why: There is another person or one waiting in the wings. ie if Both parties make the CHOICE to work at the marriage then therapy will work but if one has made that choice to look elsewhere.....(we all know what that means)
I think HOBO1 has nailed it. But agree, the 'OP' may be a different drug than an affair partner.
So I always cringe when I hear people say "oh the just fell out of love" etc. BS, they CHOSE not to focus on them / each other.
Actions first and then feelings do come. Try it. it's true. I tried that after the first BD and was so surprised at how much I thought of H during the day. That's why when he eventually left I was so hurt he didn't make the same choice for the kids and I.
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Every single relationship on the face of this earth hits bumps. I haven't been happy in mine for probably 10 years now. Doesn't mean I wasn't trying. Doesn't mean the whole 10 years was a horror story. We hit a snag. I figured we would get the spark back at some point. I was willing to wait. To keep trying. Still am I suppose.
My thought exactly!
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read it..a little lame..'It’s a shame when it ends, not through selfishness or contempt, but through not heeding the fact that relationships in our world can’t sustain themselves on air. '...uh..is there ANYONE here whose marriage didn't end with selfishness and contempt?...mine sure did
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read it..a little lame..'It’s a shame when it ends, not through selfishness or contempt, but through not heeding the fact that relationships in our world can’t sustain themselves on air. '...uh..is there ANYONE here whose marriage didn't end with selfishness and contempt?...mine sure did
That publication has been full of "blame it on someone else" crap for quite a while, it's as bad as the Huffington Post divorce section
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I kind of think that after being in a relationship for as long as we have, yes, the love is there, the real, "do anything for you, don't ever want you to die", kind of love, but for me, not the butterfly feelings we had in the beginning. Naturally, they lessen over the years and often fly away, but the love is there, just not the high we once had. Once they meet OW, and they get a flutter of something, they equate that to what we used to feel, and maybe it is, or maybe it is just the addiction, the next bottle of booze, whatever it takes.
Our love started with the butterflies, then developed into something so much more, and just that unspoken knowing. We started from nothing, had nothing except for each other, laughed, fought, you name it, but it was real. It has to change over the years, and so many times on the board, it seems to be the couples people always thought would be together forever. We felt that way, and still do in a way, there is that unbroken bond and a lifelong connection, regardless of what either of us do, or where our lives take us.
Yes, they had that love for us, and when they feel the sparks for OW/OM, it tells them they can only have it for one person, and that person they have at home isn't fun anymore compared to wonder man or woman, so off they go.
Wow! That ...all of that....just cannot be taken seriously. That is the most absurd mlc story I have ever heard of!
He's mad!
Oh my god! :o
Yes, Booboo, very odd isn't it. Imagine a grown man telling his daughter that he loves her mom, but isn't in love with her, then rewriting history to say she probably noticed that mom and dad started to drift apart after her brother was born!!! :o >:( This is to a girl in her early teens!! A father saying this to his daughter. To say he is mad is an understatement, plus, this is nothing for him, he's done much, much worse. Ugh, he is vile. She even said to me, what is he talking about, fancy saying that about growing apart after S born. No, dad just turned weird!!
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Will admit though that I often took our relationship for granted, and feel we both did, maybe only natural after 20yrs. At the same time though, it felt quite real, and life was okay.
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Will admit though that I often took our relationship for granted, and feel we both did, maybe only natural after 20yrs. At the same time though, it felt quite real, and life was okay.
Same for me Snowdrop. I knew we were in a bit of a slump, but were dealing with pretty intense career issues at the time. Had no clue there was a clueless chippy in the picture! I was secure in our love. What a shock! :o
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This article drove me nuts all day. And I think Snowdrop beat me to my response with this:
I kind of think that after being in a relationship for as long as we have, yes, the love is there, the real, "do anything for you, don't ever want you to die", kind of love, but for me, not the butterfly feelings we had in the beginning. Naturally, they lessen over the years and often fly away, but the love is there, just not the high we once had.
That's where I am. But I was thinking about it. I was thinking that I love my W, but am I "in love" with her? No. But Snowdrop nailed it. I'm not looking for the high. What I get is that deeper connection that you just don't toss away. That's love. Do people just not get that, or are they so psychologically messed up they're incapable of getting it? Or is it just the groupthink, the, well, humans aren't meant to have lifetime relationships. it's a choice.
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What I get is that deeper connection that you just don't toss away
Exactly, and why I feel us LBSs feel as we do. I also feel the MLCers do too, but their desire to live a "fun" life, overrides that for now, and causes confliction.
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What I get is that deeper connection that you just don't toss away
Exactly, and why I feel us LBSs feel as we do. I also feel the MLCers do too, but their desire to live a "fun" life, overrides that for now, and causes confliction.
That's true, but who says you can't have fun? It's like a black and white thing for and MLCer. Sort of caveman like. Spouse can't have fun. Must leave to find fun. Even though have no idea what I'm looking for. Life's not black and white, and I suspect that many of them find that out once they've done the whole leaving thing. The responsibilities don't just magically disappear. You've still got to pay rent. You've still got bills. A job. To everything there is a season. I've read that somewhere...
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Like the thinking of each other as the phone rings, time and time again, for years, and you know they were dialling you as you pictured them, or vice versa. The knowing that your take-out coffee wasn't right. The reminding you that you would be together in your rocking chairs together in the nursing home :o, and together until you die. The unspoken "Don't worry, I got it". The just "knowing".
When we met and had the butterflies but no history, that is all we had, and yes, many people have those feelings, and they dwindle in a short time, and they part and continue on their way. For the rest of us, the butterflies go, but they are replaced by something deeper and stronger.
H and I would have our differences, and yes, we would have our disputes, sometimes daily, but it would be over and done with as quick as it started, and we carried on as usual. No secrets (really, no secrets), and an honest relationship, say it as it was, love it, fight it, but always clear the air and no grudges. That was us. Nothing unsaid, truth spoken, then boom, out of nowhere, although now i look back, I see it crept up on us, but nothing obvious. BD was still a surprise for us all. To feel okay doing that in front of children, shows me that NOTHING mattered outside of him.
Very sad.
Also sad to think H got "those" feelings for someone else that were "ours". Then again, who cares. What we had was real, and I know that for sure, so who is to say theirs isn't? It is real for them, and enough so that nothing else matters. Not for me to judge, although very tempting.....
I still love H, but just do not like him.
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That's true, but who says you can't have fun?
No fun through the eyes of the MLCer, just their usual script. They don't want normal, they want FUN, shiny sparkly things don't they.
After announcing he wanted a divorce, the MLC husband of my friend reminded her that one of his reasons, was that she was "no fun anymore". Nice. Love that. What a catch of a man!
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I still love H, but just do not like him.
Would that be the 'I like you but I'm not in like with you' speech? ;D
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;D You are funny Calamity :)
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The fun comment... I swear my husband purposely tries to not have fun when he is around us to justify his decisions.
He used to be so much fun when he was around us. If he catches himself having fun when he is with us, it is like someone flips a switch.
It is weird.
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Quote
I still love H, but just do not like him.
Would that be the 'I like you but I'm not in like with you' speech? ;D
OH MY LORD, YESSSSSSS!!!
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How about I still love h but also hate him. Fine line between love and hate. I got the we settled in our marriage..h is off in his new exciting life. I hear OW is psycho so one day he will see what true love is all about, lol and he threw it all away.
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I see why the author has a low success rate. She's wants to help couples rebuild their marriages on the foundation of "romantic love". She's just as bad as our adolescent spouses. You have to choose to love your spouse. You don't wait on a feeling, you just do it.
I didn't feel like going to work today, but I did it. Many times, I don't feel like helping my D with her homework, but I do it. I never feel like cleaning the kitchen, but I do it. None of those matter as much as loving my spouse. If her advice is centered on rekindling romantic love as a basis for staying in the marriage, she's going to have a low success rate. That's such a small part of what true love is. A professional should be telling our adolescent spouses that love is bigger than feelings instead of feeding into their childlike desire for some hollywood caricature of it.
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My mom said that about my dad for about 10 years. I love your father, I just don't like him right now. And that's where I find myself.
No fun through the eyes of the MLCer, just their usual script. They don't want normal, they want FUN, shiny sparkly things don't they.
Snowdrop, my W and I used to joke about all the people we saw who went chasing things that were "fresh, new and exciting," like they saw it on a TV ad. too much manipulation in this world, and too many stupid people who can't figure out they're being manipulated. And you can't fix stupid.
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I never feel like cleaning the kitchen, but I do it.
I never feel like it, and never do it ;D ;D ;D
Snowdrop, my W and I used to joke about all the people we saw who went chasing things that were "fresh, new and exciting," like they saw it on a TV ad.
I used to see divorce statistics and think, "What a shame more people don't fight for their marriages, they seem so disposable, like many other things" :o :o Maybe they should split those statistics, one for "normal" divorces, one for MLC ones. ::)
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Quote
I still love H, but just do not like him.
Would that be the 'I like you but I'm not in like with you' speech? ;D
OH MY LORD, YESSSSSSS!!!
As I didn't actually get the ILY....blah, blah, blech, but D did on my behalf, I wonder if it is too late for me to send it to him ;). Oooops, too late, already told him in my "email" (touche H), in which I wrote about letting him go so we could focus on our new life, the kids and I (this was before coming to the board), so thats annoying. I'm kidding, I won't even email him to ask for the 3,400 computer passwords he set up and didn't tell us about before he walked out. Wanted to bang my head on the table many, many times today trying to get around the Internet Nanny blocker. No luck. I have no clue what the password was from 2 years ago. H made sure he didn't tell us the others too, although in 20yrs, he pretty much used the same ones or a variation. Mabye I am somewhat detached as I don't remember many of those either. Woohoo, still annoying though.
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No-one can erase the past, no-one can change it either. Those mlcer have a past with us, a long one. They can re-write as much as they like, it doesn't change a thing.
The past has a funny way of catching up with people. Just wait and see.
In fact, they are where they are because the past they had before us has caught with them and they felt they had to do something drastic to make it go away.They went away instead.
To start anew.They couldn't see any other way.
So what do you think will happen when their past with us catches up with them and they finally realise that running away was not the answer?
How do you think they are going to feel about us obs when they realise we carried on loving them no matter what they threw at us?
They will then realise that we love them for them, we know them better than anyone else does, we knew them before the lies they live and we believe in them still.
That is when they will realise that they will never have that again if they don't pull their finger out.
As we will stand there, strong, renewed, loving still, non-needy, bitterness free, independent and fun again, we will be an attractive force to them. One they will crave and want.
People always want what they can't have, and that's when the spark ignites again.
Just my opinion, of course.
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The author already got a burn out in her job.
" Love is a decision , not a feeling "
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The fun comment... I swear my husband purposely tries to not have fun when he is around us to justify his decisions.
He used to be so much fun when he was around us. If he catches himself having fun when he is with us, it is like someone flips a switch.
It is weird.
I've seen that as well in the few times I've been in the same room as the X, the kids will be talking about some fun time we had and she'll smile start to join in then Wham! shut down again.
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I'm a bit behind, but
That's true, but who says you can't have fun?
No fun through the eyes of the MLCer, just their usual script. They don't want normal, they want FUN, shiny sparkly things don't they.
After announcing he wanted a divorce, the MLC husband of my friend reminded her that one of his reasons, was that she was "no fun anymore". Nice. Love that. What a catch of a man!
That explains why H described OW as "Fun and cheeky" to Ds :o
Booboo - I agree with you!
xxx
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I receive emails from Bob Huizenga. This came this morning. I like what he has to say about infidelity (although he doesn't specifically deal with MLC).
'Here’s what the world (the media, your friends, self help gurus and even the professional community) subtly screams at you:
YOU are at fault!
What did you do wrong? Didn’t you meet his/her needs? Can’t you keep your man/woman? Why not? You weren’t good enough in the bedroom? Weren’t romantic enough? Didn’t listen well? Did you take him her for granted? Did you nag and complain too much? Didn’t you give enough attention? Don’t you know how to communicate? Remember, it takes two to tango!
The majority of counselors, when infidelity is discovered, basically convey, “Let’s take a look at the marriage and see if we can fix the problems there…and then infidelity will take care of itself.”
Wrong!
You are not at fault! The “marriage” is not to blame!
His/her choice to have an affair had absolutely nothing to do with you or the “marriage.”
I can’t be blunter: Infidelity has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with love.
Infidelity arises out of your spouse’s personal need system, and/or hormones, and/or character issues, and/or history and/or distorted thinking and/or immaturity.
Infidelity truly is an act of temporary insanity; it’s NOT an act of “falling in love” with someone else.
Your world tells you that infidelity is about “falling in love” with someone else. And it is subtly glamorized. After all, isn’t “falling in love” the ultimate?
Wrong!
Infidelity is not about “love.”
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Thank you kikki and thank you Bob. I needed to read that.
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make them own it..
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Perfect Kikki.
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Just saw this today and all the known factors seem to be in place. Sometimes things end up badly for the LBS in ways we haven't considered.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/164993/womans_sexy_text_message_to?utm_medium=sm&utm_source=rss&utm_content=in_the_news_rssfeed
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Wow! So very sad! And here I sit, struggling with how to forgive since I'm just in the beginning of this nightmare, could be the eye opener I needed! Thank u for sharing
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That is incredibly sad. My heart goes out to the family she left behind for many reasons.
As far as MLC goes, I personally don't see any indication of it in that article. Granted, we know nothing except she had a one night stand. Seems to me MLCers are more looking for "relationships" (and I use that term loosely as MLCers aren't capable of having a healthy one with anyone while in crisis).
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Sorry but it wasnt the LBS husbands fault that he did not instantly fore give his cheating wife.
And even if he had she was obviously in immense PAIN to cheat and then feel guilty about it.
I dont think that even if he instantly forgave her that this would have played out that much differently.
At least thats my .02.
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Like most newspaper articles - we never get the true story.
Doubt highly this is MLC and as her H says - nothing is worth taking her life over.
This is much deeper than MLC or a one night stand and says much about the woman's state of mind which was probably in a very dark place in the first place. Suicidal thoughts are symptoms of severe depression but the act has a much deeper root. I know my D has severe depression and has many suicidal thoughts but she knows that she wouldn't do it.
Not only that most of the MLCers state that they feel suicidal but know that they wouldn't.
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I agree with OP and the fact she was a police officer speaks volumes also. Simply could not deal with the fact her dishonor of the job was reflected in what she did in cheating.
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Just saw this today and all the known factors seem to be in place. Sometimes things end up badly for the LBS in ways we haven't considered.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/164993/womans_sexy_text_message_to?utm_medium=sm&utm_source=rss&utm_content=in_the_news_rssfeed
Given a lot of the LBS here are struggling at maintaining healthy boundaries with cheaters, I feel a little anxious that drawing attention to such an article at a forum such as this is going to be counter productive for the many here who need to detach for the good of their own well-being and the well-being of their children. In the vast majority of cases it is the LBS who is at most risk of suicide. Potentially burdening already traumatized LBS with the fear and guilt that if they do the wise thing and protect themselves or even not express immediate forgiveness, then the cheater may commit suicide, makes me uneasy.
And the article writer says, "
"While I don't think anyone condones cheating, it is certainly not worth taking your life over"
That may be so, but these cheaters have no problem pushing the LBS to breaking point. Did she care that her actions may have caused her husband to commit suicide? How many of us here at some point felt we can no longer go on?
This person committed suicide because she sent the text to the wrong person, not because she was a cheater. If she had sent the text to whom it was intended may be she would have fulfilled her stated wish and done, "this more often."
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This person committed suicide because she sent the text to the wrong person, not because she was a cheater. If she had sent the text to whom it was intended may be she would have fulfilled her stated wish and done, "this more often."
So are you saying she took the pills because she was embarrassed that much by the text that she did something a final as commit suicide?
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Honour,
I agree with your post.
For the LBS who may already feel responsible and down, worrying that you aren't forgiving quickly enough, isn't what we should be doing.
Suicide is selfishness to the extreme. She cheated in her spouse and then committed suicide and possibly left him with a level of guilt that he may never be able to shake. How selfish and cruel is that? Had he not had enough hurt already?
There is or was clearly more going wrong with her that she would enlist such an extreme act
No. This is in no way the spouse's fault.
I know how low I felt after BD and when my Ex left. My kids agreed to "take turns" being with me because they worried about me being alone. (I heard about this much later). It makes me smile with gratitude and love that my kids wanted to help and protect me. But I do know that they were relieved when I got stronger and didn't worry them anymore. (They have zero problem leaving me now)!
This story is about an unbalanced woman who probably had more issues than MLC, if it was MLC at all.
L
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I was apt to commit suicide this time around than last..due to the kids. I never felt like committing suicide over him.
I agree with a lot of what you said Limitless..maybe T should just get rid of this thread.
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This person committed suicide because she sent the text to the wrong person, not because she was a cheater. If she had sent the text to whom it was intended may be she would have fulfilled her stated wish and done, "this more often."
So are you saying she took the pills because she was embarrassed that much by the text that she did something a final as commit suicide?
How would you explain it?
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If she didn't get caught, would she have done that?
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Totally disagree with any comment about removing post, or that we should not discuss sensitive topics. My opinion of limiting discussions of certain topics as being too sensitive or viewing differing opinions because it may not be right for certain LBSers is completely condescending, elitist and oozes of censorship.
What's to stop a vulnerable LBSer from reading this from another website? If it's not something I want to read, I just won't read it. If I don't agree with a poster, I may write a comment indicating my disagreement, or I may ignore it... I'm an LBSer, and I'm not offended if I read something I disagree with.
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I've had some pretty embarrassing moments in my life but a misdirected text to the exh ( even when he was the H) saying that in a message?
I don't think would cause me to kill myself. I'd have to worry more about him killing me.
Good question RY..I'd think probably not..he'd find out some other way.
HoBo1 GOOD! We were just considering some LBS's are more sensitive.
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First off, I don't blame the H whatsoever nor do I agree with some topics being "too sensitive." For Heavens sake after what we've all been through I doubt much would even rattle us. We're adults who are responsible for taking care of ourselves. My intention was to point out that things COULD be worse than they already are, and this is the reality for many in this world. Be thankful that at least your MLCer is still living whether or not you want them back.
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I am not a big fan of Emotional Affair Journey, they're mostly focused on how to reconnect after various types of affairs, & mention MLC very little if at all, but I think this article presented a useful scenario related to FOO issues. One of the biggest mysteries to me has been how my H turned his back on me after a long, satisfying marriage to take up infidelity with an OW he met online & just walk out the door. The concept of rescue (knight in tarnished armor) is not new to anyone who has read RCR's articles, but this article confirms that the feelings the MLCer has for the OP isn't about the OP at all, but serve as a trigger related to FOO experiences of rescue. The feelings associated with rescue are powerful & point back to intense FOO experiences. My H's FOO wasn't as cut & dried as this one, but I observed him in inappropriate rescue behavior many, many years ago. That it crops up again at this level of intensity is "bat$h!te crazy" to borrow Stayed's favorite phrase (& to avoid my favorite expletive ::) ).
http://www.emotionalaffair.org/origin-of-emotional-affairs/
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Thanks for posting HT - makes a lot of sense and backs up what my H has said
'we got on well instantly - guess it had to do with our terrible childhoods'
'I had to rescue her from her awful relationship'
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This looks like an MLC affair that went sour. I wonder what the timeline for this relationship was?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2014/02/to-the-millennial-i-left-my-wife-for-and-8-parting-words-of-advice/
Those first months were exciting and scary. Nights in dark dive bars to avoid coworkers, dancing on the dock of the river, and kisses stolen in an elevator, were all magical and addictive. We never seemed to run out of things to talk about, and we couldn’t keep our hands off each other.
Yet soon the realities of our situation set in. The early puppy love turned serious and differences emerged from the shadows. You were finishing college, looking for jobs, and beginning to become an adult. I was going through a major life transition and adjusting to dating, and dating someone much younger.
We discovered that our common backgrounds also forged common problems. Anger, doubt and fear infected our relationship. We both agreed to change, to work through the problems together. I began seeing a therapist, I read books and articles, and I did everything I could to make myself worthy of your love. You encouraged me and acknowledged how much I was changing. But our fights turned louder and uglier. We both hurled insults that demoralized and left lasting scars.
Despite all my progress, I made many mistakes. I threatened to expose how we got started when you threatened to leave. I held on to jealousy for no reason, I had moments of neediness, and I said things that hurt, things I regretted the next day and regret still. I wish I had changed faster, that I had transitioned from marriage into dating more seamlessly. It haunts me because I know it was the final deal breaker.
EDIT: I split this into its own thread because I didn't want the discussion to get lost. -SS
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This looks like an MLC affair that went sour. I wonder what the timeline for this relationship was?
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2014/02/to-the-millennial-i-left-my-wife-for-and-8-parting-words-of-advice/
That was interesting to read. Looks like it lasted a year. Yes, this is definitely MLC sounding and interesting that the OW cheated on him, that his ex-wife tells him that time heals wounds, and that he still sounds like a teenager in his last paragraph.
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That was interesting to read. Looks like it lasted a year. Yes, this is definitely MLC sounding and interesting that the OW cheated on him, that his ex-wife tells him that time heals wounds, and that he still sounds like a teenager in his last paragraph.
There is now a response in the comments from someone who claims to be the millenial that the author was writing to:
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2014/02/to-the-millennial-i-left-my-wife-for-and-8-parting-words-of-advice/#comment-1267967607
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Interesting comments from the ow.
She writes her memories of the affair as if she were deceived as much as the ex wife. And the fact that she was only 21 and very much inexperienced probably helps her to convince herself that it is all his fault.
I wonder where the wife was during all those events at his work? Oh yes, he was basically divorced, right.
The comments that he had made about her weight seemed like a very thinly veiled attempt to degrade her self esteem. Funny how both of them sounded like victims in their stories. The actual victims are his ex wife and kids. These two self centered idiots really deserve no sympathy.
Hopefully she has learned something, like to stay away from married men. He sounds hopelessly deep in the tunnel and likely to find some other young and foolish girl to latch on to.
I would love to read the ex wife's version, although it is probably similar to the posts here, as the ex sounds like she is being companionate towards him.
Interesting stuff.
L
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The comments that he had made about her weight seemed like a very thinly veiled attempt to degrade her self esteem.
With that and the threat to "expose how we got started" when she wanted to break it off (which I took as an attempt to accuse her of being a homewrecker or probably get her fired) he sounds like quite a catch.
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The comments that he had made about her weight seemed like a very thinly veiled attempt to degrade her self esteem.
With that and the threat to "expose how we got started" when she wanted to break it off (which I took as an attempt to accuse her of being a homewrecker or probably get her fired) he sounds like quite a catch.
That's right. I forgot that he had written that bit.
He wrote it, though, in regret, that he had taken that stance. I am guessing his only regret is that it didn't work!
Interesting that he sees himself as Don Draper from Mad Men - and OW sees him as a balding, unattractive older man.
Do MLCers really see themselves as dashing Jon Hamm's?
Dream on!
L
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I have to say, I enjoyed both of those exchanges. What I found really interesting were the comments by others. Did you notice how the women seemed to sympathize with that limp *icked, short, chubby, bald dude and the men didn't. What's up with that? I agree with Limitless, they were PERFECT for each other, a match made in HEAVEN from where I sat! One no better then the other.
I remember the Clinton scandal. My children were 13 - 20 years of age. Oldest daughter was in her second year of University. The 13 year old male child, had no opinion, other then... "ewwwwwwwww... old people do things like that, S T I L L !!"... the other 4 that were almost 16 and up, had no sympathy for Monica in the least. I felt she was young and had been taken advantage of, my children just about blew me out of the house about that. All 4 of the older ones... two males and two females... laughed in my face. Told me I had a lot to learn about "harmless" little 21 year olds. That being said, they thought Clinton was scum. Felt it was a shame he ruined a wonderful career, and a truly good Presidency by allowing himself to be RULED by his "little head" (their words not mine).
What a disgusting mess! How dare they pollute the world with their sick drivel. They both need counseling. Might I suggest Lynn Forrest. They would be excellent guinea pigs for her Victim Triangle experiments.
Hugs Stayed
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Sometimes I feel like the world is a little off its axis--like when I read something like that. Whew!
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Interesting comments from the ow.
She writes her memories of the affair as if she were deceived as much as the ex wife. And the fact that she was only 21 and very much inexperienced probably helps her to convince herself that it is all his fault.
Have you ever read a site/blog/board of OWs? With very few exceptions the OW always feels deceived, entitled, thinks the wife does not deserve to have the man back, the wife is to blame and so on. Some also put all the blame on the cheater. As if it is possible to cheat without a partner in crime. Those places where OW, or former OW, write/vent are pathetic.
Even if I think the cheater has a bigger responsibility, after all they are the married ones (and if they are older their responsibility doubles), the OW/OM also has responsibility.
Clinton to me, at the time of his scandal, looked like an idiot and more American president to misbehave (my image of French and American presidents is not exactly stellar). But the one who looked worst, and still does, is Hillary. She stayed with him after all that stuff, in my view only for power/political reasons. Monica is not innocent, but, at least at the time, she capitalize on the whole situation to her advantage.
Limitless, of course MLCers see themselves as dashing Jon Hamm's. They are handsome knights in shinning armours, after all, are they not?... ::) ::) ::)
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the two sides were an interesting read
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I got curious to see if the guy's name was real or fictitious. Found this:
http://heyelaine.tumblr.com/page/elainecarrollspage
2 weeks ago
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Last week, this article “To The Millennial I Left My Wife For (And 8 Parting Words of Advice)" made the rounds on the internet. In case you didn’t see it, a pouty, anonymous 30-year-old man tells his story of love and loss, and ends by offering his 21-year-old ex the lamest, blandest, most generic cereal box advice you’ve ever read. This article annoyed the $h!te out of me.
So I got creative and wrote a response from the perspective of his ex-girlfriend and posted it in the comments section. Obviously, I don’t know these people and I had no agenda other than just to write something weird and imaginative. Someone called my response “pop art”. I am the Andy Warhol of internet commenters.
Anyway, it’s copied and pasted below…
To The Moron Who Left His Wife For A Millennial
Dear “Anonymous,” or should I say Dear Phil,
Oops. Didn’t want the world knowing your identity? Well, I saw you clear as day through your melodramatic writing, so congratulations on getting my attention.
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Well lucky for Guillermo in marketing then that he doesn't actually exist!
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Well If you ever want to know what goes on in an OW's mind then I have a letter from my H's OW which I have copied and posted in a previous thread.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3880.0
It's the second reply and it's genuine. I have the original tucked away ready for H to burn when he and I are reconciled!
Now I can laugh as their "R" has distinctly got cold..... well colder and he doesn't see her quite so often but I know he still thinks of her a lot.....
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It's the second reply and it's genuine. I have the original tucked away ready for H to burn when he and I are reconciled!
I have a folder of emails and IM chats that I collected early on when I was snooping a lot. I don't look at them; the only reason I still have them is to reassure myself that what was going on before she left wasn't my imagination. When we are reconciled, they'll get deleted.
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Wow Songanddance - thanks for posting that - I am speechless!
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Ah, so the letter was real but the response was made up? I did think the reply was very well written.
Can I just say that this totally sounds like my H! It's hilarious! When you read something like this from afar you see how pathetic and disgust the person sounds. If the initial letter is true I just feel like all the other youngsters posting what a douche bag this guy is! He just sounds so embarrassingly teenage and interesting that most of the responders see right through him! I was a cynical young 21 year old and would never have believed a married man telling me his marriage had been over for four years, especially when he had kids!
Ooooh this hit a nerve for me because it reminds me of my sitch.
If the whole lot of this made up then it's a more than a metaphor for the fantasy that is mlc affairdom! Brilliant.
Ready2, you crack me up!
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Ready2, you crack me up!
How did I miss Guillermo - you are funny Ready ;D ;D ;D
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Do MLCers really see themselves as dashing Jon Hamm's?
Dream on!
L
A few weeks after BD, my H had gone to bed (so he could text OW for a few hours)...I was sleeping elsewhere in the house. After about an hour, I went into our back yard and glimpsed into our bedroom window, this was still during the I Need to Know it All Stage.
He could not see me through the blinds, it was late, after midnight.
I watched my H do something I have never seen in all our years together. Standing in his boxer shorts, flexing his arm muscles in the two mirrors in our bedroom. Front ways, sideways...then he did knee bends and then some pushups. I stood there in the darkness outside and watched...
This was a man who was in good shape, normal weight and not a vain bone in his body. I felt like a voyeur at that moment and went back inside...feeling not so good.
SSG
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/fashion/Modern-Love-my-marriage-a-course-in-desert-survival.html?mabReward=RI%3A11&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.®ion=Footer&module=Recommendation&src=recg&pgtype=article
I disagree with her in the end- it matters HOW someone leaves. Adultery betrayal based on the "I´m not happy" line is not a respectful and valid way to leave. Of course someone has the right to leave. I do think that each spouse owes the other open communication and the effort to resolve issues. That requires telling your partner that there is an issue in the first place. I think society will see that untreated and unacknowledged mid-life depression is destroying marriages at an alarming rate. There still seems to be a stigma associated with depression even though we now know that it is biological in its roots.
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So she was in the hospital for depression, but he is the one depressed.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/fashion/Modern-Love-my-marriage-a-course-in-desert-survival.html?mabReward=RI%3A11&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.®ion=Footer&module=Recommendation&src=recg&pgtype=article
I disagree with her in the end- it matters HOW someone leaves. Adultery betrayal based on the "I´m not happy" line is not a respectful and valid way to leave. Of course someone has the right to leave. I do think that each spouse owes the other open communication and the effort to resolve issues. That requires telling your partner that there is an issue in the first place.
Bingo. I have been thinking exactly about the same thing. Especially since in my situation, I had just made a big sacrifice to be with him - left London and my life there to move back to Italy with him because that was what he wanted. So running away the way he did, he left me in a big ugly mess: the very least he could have done was try to work things out, out of respect for all the effort I did to be with him. At his request, at that.
But on the other hand, him behaving so horribly is helping me shut the door. In fact he shut the door for me. He's revealed himself to be an unrealiable, immature, weak man, and I cannot lean on someone like that.
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So she was in the hospital for depression, but he is the one depressed.
She was in the hospital because she couldn't believe her husband left her. If not for a timely and unprecedented visit from my neighbors, I could have been her. But I have never suffered from anything but limited situational depression.
Who knows what happened to her crazy H...
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Then he said in a voice of wonder, “You have such strong feelings.”
With a pang, I realized what I had always known: he never felt anything as keenly as I did.
That was certainly the story of our marriage. He did not seem to experience the highs and lows that I did. Indeed, as you know, when he left he told me two things ..I talk too much and I am too intense.
Is it a crime to be too intense?
Perhaps that is why this hurts me more than it seem to hurt him. Because I have strong feelings.
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Then he said in a voice of wonder, “You have such strong feelings.”
With a pang, I realized what I had always known: he never felt anything as keenly as I did.
That was certainly the story of our marriage. He did not seem to experience the highs and lows that I did. Indeed, as you know, when he left he told me two things ..I talk too much and I am too intense.
Is it a crime to be too intense?
Perhaps that is why this hurts me more than it seem to hurt him. Because I have strong feelings.
No. Not a crime at all.
I used to think that I "felt" more than my Ex.
I know see that his feelings were very intense....and very deep. Heck, he ran away from home because of the way he felt.
No. I don't think the MLCer has less feelings than us. No. I think maybe they have as much, or even more feelings than us. They just didn't express them. They didn't acknowledge them. Or talk about them. They denied them for so long.....that they just fell apart and had to run.
I think, at least for my Ex, he may have had more and deeper feelings than I.....he just didn't show them like I would show mine.
And maybe that was the problem all along.
I found the article very disturbing. And, probably very accurate.
The husband sounded very MLC. Yes. He was most likely depressed. So was she.
L
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A disturbing article, but also deja vu.
Had a little conversation with my H just last night about feelings - something we're only able to talk about now - H was never quite comfortable with his emotions, seemed afraid of feeling things too deeply (fear of pain?). Inwardly a bit of a softie, but outwardly would do anything to deflect the true emotion from a moment and dissolve it into non-threatening humour (including the silly 'cowboy voice' the H in the article uses! Oy ve). Maybe this is a risk factor for MLC?
What I noticed during his MLC, my H's emotions just disappeared. Completely flat affect. Didn't seem to feel anything, watched his life unravel around him like a depressed person cutting his wrists and disinterestedly watching the blood fall. When H's capacity for emotion returned, that was the moment I first thought he was actually returning.
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Lisa is right, OP, she is depressed because of the way he left. Several of us could be in her position if, for one reason or another, we had not been luckier.
Limitless, not all MLCers keep their feeling hidden. Mine was always much better than be talking about his feelings and not suppressing them. And Mr J surely always showed his feelings. In fact when he left he said that, unlike him, I have no feelings because I never cry (true, I hardly ever cry but that does not mean no feelings). The other offense was that he could never win an argument with me. Also not true.
During MLC the MLCer feelings and emotions seem to oscillate between over the board and dead. MLCers are over emotional creatures however they do not seem capable of connecting with those that matter to them for so long.
To be frank, FTT, in the end it does not matter why they leave. At least I’ve come to the point where it does not matter. But this is being going on for nearly 8 years for me so it is different that it was 2 or 3 years ago.
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I said that it mattered HOW, not why they leave.
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Sorry, FTT. Somehow I read why rather than how. Still, how, in the end will also not matter. Or, at least, for me it no longer matters.
Or better, the how and why matter, or may matter, in my view, if the marriage is going to be back on track.
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“We were together a quarter of a century!” I once bawled to a therapist. She cocked her head and asked, “So?” A question I found I could not answer.
This therapist sounds like she has the empathy of a MLCer. She acts like a long, deeply felt, committed R can just be tossed away without a second thought. That the end of a 25 year long R shouldn't be grieved for.
The depth of loss & grief & pain I see on THS mirrors my own & I know that we all really lived our Rs, really felt our Rs, were deeply committed to our partners. What is the value of a marriage, of a committed partnership if it can just be tossed aside without a thought? (other than by a MLCer, of course, that is their dysfunction).
Of course, we would all be having much less pain & anger & sadness & loneliness if we hadn't taken our spouses so deeply into our hearts, if we hadn't taken our marriages so seriously. We probably wouldn't even be gathered here, working through our own pain & helping others to do the same. But of what worth is that?
I've mentioned this before, but while talking to a D'ed acquaintance/colleague awhile back about my situation, she said of her new fiance, "I love him, but if he left tomorrow, I wouldn't be devastated'. Maybe she just doesn't know how she would feel, but I suspect she is keeping this R at a bit of a distance. I see this similar attitude in those who urged me to "go on a date" six months after H left. Men are inter-changeable; Rs are inter-changeable. One wants to leave, just happily let go & find another.
I disagree with her in the end- it matters HOW someone leaves. Adultery betrayal based on the "I´m not happy" line is not a respectful and valid way to leave. Of course someone has the right to leave. I do think that each spouse owes the other open communication and the effort to resolve issues. That requires telling your partner that there is an issue in the first place.
Not only is it disrespectful & invalid, it is emblematic of their crisis, of their dysfunction. A healthy new R cannot be undertaken with the baggage of the previous one scattered about. If your appraisal of your "old R" is based on delusions & blaming & justifications, isn't validated through the process of a couple communicating & working on the R together, the fate of the "new R" is in peril. This is what we learn, this is what we work on. This is why we take the time we do to heal. We know that happiness is not found in discarding the uncomfortable & seeking the buzz of adulation before even bothering to mention it to the current spouse.
This article left me cold. No one seems to understand, at least in the context of this short recounting, what the hell happened to this R. The H & the "professionals" are all blase about the death of a marriage & the wife is devastated, but seems to have learned nothing of value.
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Yes, we recover, but the scars are there forever. I hold those scars as a survivor and not as a victim, but they remain nonetheless. I have said that if emotional scars were visible, I would look like a burn victim- (victim is in that description, but that is the term).
Medical news today just published a research article about how one cannot forgive oneself until first asking for forgiveness from those who´ve been slighted by our actions. IF the MLCers are able to feel, then human nature being what it is, they suffer until they seek to make amends. That is probably why they run- avoiding a state of even feeling would "feel" better than actually allowing themselves to feel the consequences of their actions. As we have seen, they can run for a loooooong time.
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NO slight intended at all, but if you have kids, it ABSOLUTELY matters HOW you leave. If he had left politely, after MC, and not fought to pay me CS, I would not ever have found my way here. But the WAY he left indicates to me, clearly, that he didn't care what he did to me, or what I thought of him, and that he didn't TRULY care about his kids. In the end, it doesn't matter TO ME, how or why he left. I have no reason to ever want to see or hear from him again. BUT, as far as having a "good relationship, for the sake of the kids" it matters that I have ZERO respect for him, and my kids know it, and always will. Sure, one day, he might come out of the tunnel and show remorse and apologize, and we can clear the air, but until then, I do NOT issue "get out of jail free" cards. But that's me, and I know you all are way more forgiving. But be truthful, if they had left in a better way, it would still be easier to forgive...
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Do you have a link to those medical news, FTT?
Medical news today just published a research article about how one cannot forgive oneself until first asking for forgiveness from those who´ve been slighted by our actions. IF the MLCers are able to feel, then human nature being what it is, they suffer until they seek to make amends.
Yes, and, yet, their running only leads to more things to amend = more things to be forgave. It really is illogical. They are probably just adding layers and layers and layers of more damage, more fog, more self hate. And much more to heal once they are out of the fog.
Yes, Lisa, you are right, if one has kids it matters how they leave. It also matter if MLCer and LBS have a public life and everyone knows what happened/how it happened. After all there is a reason why I don't want a public scandal and don't make much waves: I have a public life (or had) and a project whose reputation I want to preserve.
Of course it would had been much easier to forgive if they had leave in a better way. Don't worry, you're not alone in your zero respect for your husband. I have zero respect for Mr J. And I also have zero "get out of jail free" cards. Like you, maybe one day if he comes out of the fog and so on... for now, zero.
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This article was on the CBS Miami site this morning and made an appearance on the Drudge Report. This is exactly the kind of infidelity that my MLC'er committed, and I from what I read many of our marriages fell prey to this. I think MLC'ers are particularly vulnerable to this new technological infidelity, because they are seeking a new emotional connection with someone other than their spouse This behavior is slightly different from "sexting", because it's all about the emotional connection and is being termed in this article as "emotional sex." Of course, in many cases lines continue to be crossed...some begin meeting in person which, of course, can lead to an PA. Posting pertinent excerpts here with a link to the entire article below
It’s a disturbing trend that is being blamed for destroying marriages and ruining families. Experts say it starts as an innocent conversation, but evolves into a deep bond.
“He left his Facebook up one day and there was a whole other life,” said one woman.
She said her man wasn’t having sex with another woman, but was sharing his deepest feelings with her.
It’s referred to as ‘chexting’ and has been called a new form of betrayal that combines cheating and texting. People have been talking about it all over the internet.
“If they’re like, oh, ‘[we're] just friends,’ and get really defensive about it and throw a big fit it’s probably a good sign that they’re trying to get with people other than you,” one woman said.
In many ways ‘chexting’ can be a more insidious form of infidelity, according to experts.
“Truly the question becomes, are you texting somebody else things, content, material that you’re not sharing with your partner,” said Dr. Greer.
But where does chatting end and cheating begin?
“If your partner is texting the minute he wakes up or the minute she wakes up, before you go to bed and you’re feeling really disconnected from them, then you might start to wonder what’s going on,” said Dr. Greer.
A partner who is particularly guarded around their phone or one who logs onto the computer at odd hours could also be engaged in ‘chexting’.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/28/chexting-breaking-up-happy-homes/ (http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/05/28/chexting-breaking-up-happy-homes/)
Discussion? Thoughts?
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Personally i think it doesnt matter whatever rhey call it or which way it is done. Something is wrong with humans nowadays that they cannot rest or settle in life. Infidelity is about the way we fail to relate.
Mothers and fathers have a lot to answer for.
Sd
X
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Mine definitely did that, on Whatsapp. It moved on to a PA the moment I turned my back, even though a couple of days before he was crying saying he didn't want to lose me and he 'just needed to be alone'.
I feel like such a fool. I gave him unconditional trust for so long, and he took complete advantage of that. And I was so trusting that I didn't pick up on the - in hindsiight GLARING - signs because I just couldn't fathom he would ever do something like that. He was texting her all the time while sitting right there with me on the couch, ignoring me as I told him I felt lonely and I wished he would talk to me more, and pouring out lie after lie about what he was doing on his phone.
I feel so humiliated. I don't know if I can ever get past this horrible behavior.
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Personally i think it doesnt matter whatever rhey call it or which way it is done. Something is wrong with humans nowadays that they cannot rest or settle in life. Infidelity is about the way we fail to relate.
Mothers and fathers have a lot to answer for.
Sd
X
Well said!
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Personally i think it doesnt matter whatever rhey call it or which way it is done. Something is wrong with humans nowadays that they cannot rest or settle in life. Infidelity is about the way we fail to relate.
Mothers and fathers have a lot to answer for.
Sd
X
Well said!
I think it's definitely an issue with how modern society is structured. Like, being young (or fake-young!), without any responsibility, is glorified. Growing up and learning to take responsibility - for the ageing parents, for kids, for themselves... - is considered a curse, is delayed, is avoided. I was reading this essay about how in our society there are no longer rites of passage into adulthood, like in more 'primitive' societies, and therefore people float along never stepping up to the plate.
I'm thinking of a quote from E.R. when the grandmother of one of the doctors tells him: "I never understood your generation. In my generation, we embraced our responsibilities, they defined us. You - all your life you've been indulged, and called it oppression."
Precisely. Becoming a strong man responsible for a family was glorified, not remaining an eternal teenager who wants to party and screw around, like today. Becoming old is even more demonized nowadays, while in the past the elderly were valued, they were a source of wisdom, and they played a role in the household - like my great-great-grandma, who even tho she could barely move, still had the task of keeping the fire lit and looking after the babies as the adults broke their backs in the crops.
Also, back in the day I think that they had a clearer understanding that being healthy and not going hungry was already a MASSIVE achievement, and that true happiness lies in having a healthy family not struggling too much to survive... nowadays that's taken for granted, that's not enough, that's 'boring', what people want is fake adventure, mindless fun, INSTANT GRATIFICATION, not having to work to achieve things and then whining because they haven't achieved anything. (It's why instant-celebs without any merit or skill are so glorified - 'hey, that could be me without having to make any effort!')
Lol. Look at me, 26 and I talk like I'm so old and expert in the world, lol. But I was brought up by a very pragmatic grandma in the Italian countryside who had to break her back all her life to achieve what she wanted - stability, food on the table and a roof over her head. And that was enough to her, perfectly satisfying, without any weird flights of fancy. I think I learned this attitude from her - and also, after so many bereavements in our family, to me the greatest gift is to be able to be together, healthy and reasonably happy. I don't need any fancy toys to make me happy, I just want my loved ones to be there and a 'boring' life... because to me that's such a rare thing, every year we're mourning another death or disaster of some sort. 'Boring' peace is awesome!
Too bad my Ex doesn't see it that way, lol. I guess when you've had that 'boring peace' all your life, you really don't realize how goddamn lucky you've been, and throw it all away in pursue of some illusion.
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Absolutely agree Dagolark. I didn't mean to spark debate about that, I just don't think that any of it matters.
I firmly believe that we have things too easy, idolise the untalented, believe anything short of perfection is a failure.
I read something the other day where it said why is it that the soldiers out defending our countries are paid less that 5% of some guy defending the goal in football. How true is that!!!
Our values are all screwed up, our beliefs are misguided by falseness. I am use that I would like perfect with a hairstylist, a personal trainer, Botox, liposuction and then still have to airbrush me in a magazine.
In the uk, even those that don't work seem to have disposable income for entertainment and feel entitled.
My parents didn't wholly struggle for money, but they taught me it's value and that the only way I got it was to earn it. If you didn't have money, you mAde do or mend.
For those of us 40+ then we made out own entertainment. Played in the street till dark with simple stuff. We bought sweets with our pocket money and didn't get it otherwise.
Our mlcers are mirroring today's entitled spoilt brats.
We can no longer as humans learn to relate to others becuSe we never speak to them face to face. We text, email etc. progress has a it's costs and it's human costs.
Children no longer respect their elders and see them as useless. They fail to see what contribution the aged have made, only what they are now.
Our mlcers have bought into the fake, but it's fake and they will eventually grown up enough to see that. They will try and turn back to what they used to have and expect to just take it. No, they have to earn it and we should not let them just come and take it all back.
Rant over !!!!!!!
Okay, for the record Dagolark, my h did all that whilst sitting next to me lying righ to my face. He never missed a stride while he did it either. Trust someone like that, I think not !
Sd
X
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Dagolark...I agree with with your take. I think a lot of what we are all dealing with is the breakdown of the culture. We do have it made, and because we are so spoiled and taken care of...meaning we don't have to worry about food on our tables and a roof over our heads on a daily basis... many become bored with life. They look for a new thrill. They are tired of the same ole, same ole.
My H was never satisfied with anything for long. There were red flags before we were married. This mostly had to do with material things. He trades cars almost like he changes underwear, and he always has to have the newest gadget (especially phones). About 10 years I could see the boredom starting with me (in addition to some very major life challenges we were having). Deep down inside I knew I would eventually be on the chopping block even though i lived in a state of denial for years. He always had this interesting saying that drove me crazy every time he used it. He would say, "Everything I have is for sale. I don't have a deep attachment to things." There was a slight element of truth to that he wasn't attached to the things but was attached to the new thrill of things. As soon as something wasn't new to him anymore it went up for sale. What grated me was that he stated in a way that made him look so un-materalistic when, in fact, the opposite was mostly true.
Of course, the desire for an emotional connection goes back usually to childhood/FOO issues...which my H most definitely has...but it's also stemming from the culture that screams that if you are bored with your relationship then it's time to move on to the next hormone-induced thrill. There are so many technology-laden ways to do that now there is no way to know for certain if your partner is truly being faithful. Yes, they could give you all their passwords to their e-mail, FB, instagram etc., but now there are literally thousands of technological avenues for cheating/Chexting/sexting. It's so easy to hide. How would you ever know for sure if they are remaining technologically faithful? You wouldn't ever truly know for sure.
I also agree with your theory about pseudo-celebrities and expecting to be famous and rich without lifting more than your texting fingers to achieve it. It's really a dead-end road for all except a few...and I think as time goes by we're seeing that pseudo-celebrity lives slowly implode.
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Superdog...my husband did the same thing. Texting OW while sitting on the couch and similutaneously denying that he was doing it. I agree, I don't know if I could ever totally trust him again. That kind of deception is never truly forgotten because it's done so willingly.
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In the beginning my H kept saying maybe he had seen too many romantic comedies, like our relationship wasn't good enough b/c it didn't play out like Sleepless in Seattle or something(I don't know, I hate romcoms, especially now). But he wanted the cute meeting, love at first sight, endless "in love" feeling and I do feel like it is a problem in our culture. Most movies and tv shows romanticize marriage, nobody wants to see the dirty work behind a relationship and so they think it isn't supposed to be work at all. I know he doesn't have to discuss bills and laundry with OW; there are no kids involved there and they can just go out all the time and have fun. Its the fantasy life that every guy dreams of, I guess.
He was also constantly texting and emailing and had the code on his phone. I used to trust him completely even though he is a musician. Innocence is lost.
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Growing up and learning to take responsibility - for the ageing parents, for kids, for themselves... - is considered a curse,
I couldn't agree more. When S11 was born and then my dad died and we agreed to have my Mom live with us H just couldn't take the responsibility anymore. It cramped his style too much. He didn't get to do the things he wanted to do for himself. So he threw a fit, had an affair and moved out.
My H was never satisfied with anything for long. There were red flags before we were married. This mostly had to do with material things.
Mine too. Always looking for the next best thing to make him happy.
Yes, they could give you all their passwords to their e-mail, FB, instagram etc., but now there are literally thousands of technological avenues for cheating/Chexting/sexting. It's so easy to hide. How would you ever know for sure if they are remaining technologically faithful? You wouldn't ever truly know for sure.
This weighs heavily on my mind. Even S11 said last night, "if daddy comes home he has to throw his phone away."
Texting OW while sitting on the couch and similutaneously denying that he was doing it.
Mine did this too. He even went so far as to be texting the other woman while we were sitting in church and claiming it was a bible app..... ::)
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Innocence is lost indeed. And I resent that I've already lost it at 26. I wanted a wedding and at least a few years of bliss. And instead now I will forever be afraid that my future partners will do the same. ..
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SF---I highly suspect my husband texted the OW in church too. It's now very telling that his MLC began and started escalating pretty quickly after he joined FB and got a Smartphone. He had every one of the "symptoms" mentioned in the article. He has told me recently that he has been propositioned several times via FB alone, and his EA began with a connection with an old friend via FB. His old girlfriend (not the one he had an EA with) propositioned him over FB saying that she kept an old T-shirt of his since high school and took it out every now and then to smell it ("Ewwww..) That creeped him out to the point he defriended her, but I think it simultaneously fed his ego and he was less careful with women on social media. I think it made him feel empowered and desirable, so he slowly let his guard down until he ended up in a "chexting" EA which I believe has now escalated to a full-on relationship (He still denies anything other than friendship, but there's to much evidence to the contrary).
I honestly cannot fathom how hard a conscience has to be to do this especially in places like church or in morning staff devotions at his ministry job...I know he did it there. Maybe it's not a hardened conscious as much as it's that they've gradually deceived themselves to over time, slowly, to believe that's okay. It's like the whole frog in boiling water analogy. They put themselves in dangerous waters and slowly turn up the heat until they boil their conscience. An just like your screen name (and Casting Crowns song)...it's a slow fade.
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Dagolark...I know it's hard not to become jaded and cynical, and when your trust is broken like this it takes a lot of time get over it, but there are people out there who don't do horrendous things like this. I helped a friend with her daughter's wedding last weekend. It was hard to do at first, because my husband had just dropped the D-bomb on Wednesday; however, when I was sitting in their beautiful ceremony I was overcome with joy saying, "I still believe in marriage....even after all I've been put through I do believe in the sacredness and permanence of marriage." and I really do! My parents celebrated their 50th anniversary that same day, and while their marriage has been far from perfect, as far as I know, they have been faithful and committed to each other for those 50 years. The key word is "commitment" and unfortunately, we are losing the meaning behind that word in marriage. With that said there are still good and faithful people out there. I know couples who model it. I know a few other standing mates, like me, who are trying our best to model it amongst deep pain and betrayal. I choose to believe in the goodness of marriage.
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An just like your screen name (and Casting Crowns song)...it's a slow fade.
That was the inspiration for my name. I love that song. And my H descended into that pit via smart phone and facebook as well. Satan certainly takes advantage of new technology to further his plans.......
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SF...true, satan does use technology for his plans, but in the end we know who wins ;)
Because I work for an worldwide evangelical ministry I also have witness to how God uses all this technology for his purposes too. It's really one of the things that keeps my faith and sanity intact through all this. I daily get to hear stories of miracles, and the "miracle of technology" is part of that.
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Can I stamp that on his forehead!!! >:(
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Attaching to your thread. I am one of the chexting people too. H has even exchanged naked selfies with 20 something, but she is gone now and he is into OW that is older than us and also in MLC - what a joy! ha ha!
I am sure he now is up to something on facebook, as he is on it a lot. Silly boy.
Thanks for sharing the article it is very interesting.
I had to laugh when my phone broke and I went to the cell phone company. The salesman told me he liked my H and he sold him our phones and he was really cool. I basically said something like I am sorry that you lack good judgment in character. The salesman said that H would only look at smartphones that he could lock the screen. I told the salesman and you wonder why his w would not like him? I got 3 free things before leaving due to guilt of salesman. He said he likes me better than H...LOL
Have a great week. prayers and hugs
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Hey Scooby,
I've been following/catching up on your threads. Hang in there. I know how hard this stage is. Hubby says he's filing for D, so I'm basically at the same point as you. Just fed up with all his shennanigans and mess. He is truly a like a teenager. It blows the mind.
When FB first started getting popular my H was like, "I'm never going on FB...what a waste of time...blah, blah, blah", but within a few months he did. He was connecting with old high school friends, childhood friends, and he was sucked in like a magnet. It slowly became his world, his platform, and he had women hanging all over his threads, especially one who became the alienator...fueling his ego, singing his praises. He felt validated and empowered by it , and it truly became an addiction and his downfall. He did go off FB for about 3-4 months at the end of 2012. He put a big going-away post up about how he was wasting too much time on FB, and that he has "an addictive personality", and FB was an addiction. He stuck to it for 3-4 months, but once he went back on FB and fired up the chexting and FB messaging again with OW he was sucked back in and left me within a month of reactivating his FB account.
I'm not saying that he wouldn't have had an MLC if there was no social media involved. It was pretty much inevitable because of his FOO issues and emotional maturity issues, but social media/texting/e-mailing was like gasoline on the fire.
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When FB first started getting popular my H was like, "I'm never going on FB...what a waste of time...blah, blah, blah", but within a few months he did. He was connecting with old high school friends, childhood friends, and he was sucked in like a magnet. It slowly became his world, his platform, and he had women hanging all over his threads, especially one who became the alienator...fueling his ego, singing his praises. He felt validated and empowered by it , and it truly became an addiction and his downfall.
I could have written this about my H as well....almost word for word!
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H is now FBing any chance he can get. I am sure he is sending message to OW, in addition to texting her 12,000 to 15,000 between them times a month. Amazing they get any work done. The thing is that it is against policy at work for them to have relations and to text and have phone calls except during break and lunch.
If you all have read my thread you know H is hanging himself. I am done done done!
nre thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5008.0