Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: bellagio88 on January 27, 2014, 08:55:22 PM
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Hi everyone
I am interested in hearing about peoples experiences and comments about the nature and role of covert depression ( male in my case) and what causes them to ultimately leave in the hope of a new and better life.
My WAP was building depression got about 13 months before BD , with a mini BD dec 2012.
In his BD email / speech he said he is depressed. (But blames me for it)
Any thoughts?
Thank you
B x
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There are many informative articles to read here. In addition, before I found this site, I spent a lot of time on the site "The Storied Mind". I think you would find it an interesting site as it explains in detail, the link between depression and the "urge to leave."
I found so much info there, that I used to copy pages of it and give it to my MLC partner to read. It didn't "wake" him up, but was very interesting to read.
Basically I think the depression causes such pain that they just want to feel better and reach out to whatever they think will take away the pain, or the numbness they are experiencing. Could be drugs, alcohol, gambling. For many of us, it was the OM or OW, they turned to.
To the MLCer of course, we are the cause of their misery....if they could just get away from us, life would be so much better....or so they believe. Not true of course, but they have a long way to go before they will realize we are not the cause of their Misery.
Others will be along with more info for you.
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Thanks so much for the post. It's been really helpful and I will definitely look at the site you mentioned as well as look at the resources.
It thought it may be useful to outline WAP depression timeline / potential causes etc as far as I can see it.
Potential causes-
- elderly father - history of a difficult relationship with him. Father tried to commit suicide October 2013.
- possibly age (WAP is 62) and fear of getting older .
- he is involved in the performing arts and was looking at 2014 With no booked professional work at the end of last year. He was dropped from a show I October for being too old - the director wanted someone younger looking.
- unresolved childhood issues
Covert depression - his symptoms
- over 14 months became more and more emotionally detached and withdrawn and irritable.
Could not explain why and refused to talk about it - whenever I tried he blamed me . We had a few times where it came to a head and it was always his blame of me kamikazeing the relationship but never letting anything drop.
- Kept going on about not being relaxed at home in our company. Finding excuses over the year to be away for work / not joining in with social activities and holidays.
- complaint of back ache and shoulder ache and having a few turns close to the end of 2013 / not remembering where he was or why he had done something. - feeling very giddy etc .
- use of online porn and a defiance when I found out / anger and shame and embarrassment but told me that no one was going to tell him how he could live his life.
- lack of housework and cleaning up after himself .
- interest in new diets - raw juice etc - buying walking books.
- accepting more and more work that took him away from home for long periods - and I is involvinv him staying on friends couches/ spare rooms or even travelling through the night in his car.
- leaving old food in his car...
BD came New Year's Eve. - all of the above was building up and he was complaining over the Xmas period of being very tired.
The more I look at these above the more I think it has been brought on by depression in my WAPs case .
The hard thing I am grappling with is not they but after they run the determination to have no contact. Is it shame/ guilt it just, as you say, the defiant belief that they want a new life and you are the reason for getting out.
I also believe that if WAP only told me 3 weeks ago that he is depressed there is no way he can be over it. - regardless if how relieved and happy he may be
B x
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At BD my H didn't acknowledge he was depressed - everything that was wrong was down to me and the marriage. Since he has acknowledged he may have some symptoms but so far as I know hasn't seen anyone about it.
He also reported feeling happy and relieved after leaving and I don't doubt it. He looked so uncomfortable in the last couple of weeks he remained at home to the point you could almost call it distress.
I think the responsibilities of home on top of work was too much at that time and his compulsion to run from it was highly evident. I think it's going to take a good while longer (3 months ish so far) for him to sort it out for himself. I am seeing signs of improvement but he is still getting a buzz from hanging around with a younger group of men. Last night he was telling me about their drinking competitions and how one of them wired up his privates to a TENS machine. :o (He's a 46 yo, father of 4 and company director just in case you thought I might have suddenly got confused with my 20 yo son)
I have read some interesting articles about depression - have you searched for Terence Real and Dr Joseph Carver? I think there are some links to articles from them somewhere on these boards. Sorry I'm new and still finding my way around. :)
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Just wanted to update here re the ongoing issue of depression . Could really do with some insight, thoughts etc
Have just come back from WAPs house - have started to move my things out .
Have been thinking/assuming that he is in a depression as he admitted it at BD.
WAP is popping optimum nutrition pills - they were laying all over his desk . Is now using his rowing machine , raw juicing and is looking to go on a yoga retreat in about a weeks time. ) he has never done yoga )Also looking to go in a two week trip to Berlin for an intensive German language course.
However his kitchen was an absolute pigsty with rotten food and dirty stove top etc .
Any thoughts about whether it's is still part of covert depression/ replay or whether he is just happy and moving on?
B x
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Basically I think the depression causes such pain that they just want to feel better and reach out to whatever they think will take away the pain, or the numbness they are experiencing. Could be drugs, alcohol, gambling. For many of us, it was the OM or OW, they turned to.
This is pretty much how I understand it. See ref. below my signature: Terrence Real; I don't want to talk about it.
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Is now using his rowing machine , raw juicing and is looking to go on a yoga retreat in about a weeks time. ) he has never done yoga )Also looking to go in a two week trip to Berlin for an intensive German language course.
However his kitchen was an absolute pigsty with rotten food and dirty stove top etc .
Any thoughts about whether it's is still part of covert depression/ replay or whether he is just happy and moving on?
I think you already know the answer to your question. ;) Happy and moving on with a pigsty kitchen, rotten food and dirty stove top... Hmmmm.... think not. Replay for him it is.
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Basically I think the depression causes such pain that they just want to feel better and reach out to whatever they think will take away the pain, or the numbness they are experiencing. Could be drugs, alcohol, gambling. For many of us, it was the OM or OW, they turned to.
This is pretty much how I understand it. See ref. below my signature: Terrence Real; I don't want to talk about it.
I have been reading Terrence Real on and off; it is very powerful. I can only read it in small portions. I usually ending up crying, the pain is so real.
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My H wants to run soon, BD was just last week. He is so depressed, counselor even says so. He fights us both, saying the situation is causing his depression, not the depression causing the situation. And won't get tested for testosterone issues or any medical reason. Would your H go for a checkup since he is becoming more health conscious? My H refuses even though he is at the gym all the time nw and rapidly losing weight through stress ...
Hang in there, we seem to all be in the same boat.
Many hugs ...
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Hi sad moose. Thanks so much for your message - I am so sorry to hear of your BD, only a week ago ? So very very tough - mine was about three and a half weeks ago - New Year's Eve by email.
In the email from WAP he said "bf (his best friend) has passed in that you think I am depressed and I have been thinking about it and you are right - I am depressed. And I am depressed because of you and our relationship. Whenever I am anywhere near you it is exacerbates . For my own peace of mind I have to end this relationship. I want 2014 to be a year of rejuvenation and new beginnings and that means that doors must close. "
He is working out more - rowing and cycling - he is 62 with a bad back and bad knees . He is popping optimum vitamin pills and taking middle eastern remedies/ pastes . Reading books on yoga and meditation. ( he has never been like this before - always a wine and cheese man , although he did play competition squash until his knees packed in)
Should I believe that it is still covert depression ? Is he still running? I suspect so but would really appreciate some feedback.
Re OW as part of this there is a default woman who had been an on off affair partner for almost. 25 years. She has broken up many of his relationships, he was seeing her on/ off when I met him. I have never met her but by all accounts she is depressed and divorced and will not let him go .
Sends birthday cards and Xmas cards saying with love, forever.....
Is this affairing down and also part of covert depression? Is covert depression and replay tied into one or does it change over once in replay ?
Hoping to hear advice / it would really help
Thanks
B x
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The other common trait of MLC - the blame both prior and post BD of the partner/ spouse.
I have had both.
Pre BD - from about a year before it my WAP was removed, anxious and blaming me for causing tension and problems in our relationship. He was very irritable . He kept saying that I was on a kamikaze mission to ruin what was already fragile. No matter what I did, no matter what behaviour I addressed, no matter what hoops I jumped through it made no difference. He just couldn't be any different / in fact he for progressively worse, more withdrawn etc. there were times when I went to give him a hug and he recoiled - not wanting to have me touch him. When I fakes, hurt, why they was he said that I was showing affection in an insincere way?????? Wtf????
Post bd he has accused me of being a woman who is needy, needs a lot of help etc etc. he has accused me of shoring no sadness or remorse or regret or understanding about his Bd???? He was passively angry when he found out that I had redirected my mail.
I just don't know what else I could have done. I did my very very best.
I just have to assume this is depression, without that as a reason this is all too hard and I feel like I will go under myself
:)
Bx
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Hi BellaJo88,
I'm a practictioner of Chinese medicine and I'm reading a lot on depression, hormones and TCM diagnosis. One of the things I realized is that not only did my H say he was depressed but his pulse showed kidney channel deficiency. According to TCM the Kidneys house the jing (vital essence) which are responsible for hormones balance in western medicine. My H started having palpitations a year prior and was found with arrhythmia. I treated him to strengthen the Ki channel but after BD and finding out of the OW, I thought that his palpitation were due to guilt. Maybe they were but he continued to have them even after leaving me. I don't talk with him now so I don't know what is happening.
I think that there is a lot involved in MLC Bellajo88. Emotions can change our body chemistry and metabolic functions so there are a lot of variable that lead to the blow up in our MLCer. The OW? I don't know what to make of her. She may be like a coping mechanism...just like self medicating...maybe?
I think what bothers most LBS's is that we were so close to these H's or W's and suddenly we know nothing about them. They change completely. Our questions are: How do they feel, are they moving on, do we mean something to them...are they really happier without us? All we can do is speculate but the only way to know is to actually be in their screwed up heads.
My H told a "friend" that this ow made him happy. One of my friends went to his office to talk to him and saw the ow there too. He has gained weight and looks very puffy. His hair is almost all grey and he is only 39. That doesn't appear happy to me. It's so hard to see them destroy themselves and cause so much chaos but, I guess, we have no control over them. We can only keep ourselves well and watch. Take care of you. ((hugs))
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GOD - ok - now the truth is out
There is another woman. I know her.
She is married with four children.
It's confirmed. After he wrote me the BD email New Year's Eve he has had her in our house. Then - while we were in grief flying back from Australia to the uk he was holed up in a hotel with her for three days.
He has lied to me and to his best friend saying that that weekend he was actually in our home town all weekend helping his son install his kitchen. Instead he was fours hours away with her.
PLEaSE can I get some feedback and support here. I know OW is an expected part of this process but the lying and the deceit has been incredible . She is a singing student of his (mature age) - he has known her for about a year.
I feel DREADFUL :( :(
B x
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Dear Bellajo88,
I'm so sorry you are suffering...I know how this feels. :'( It's so hurtful. The betrayal is absolutely heart wrenching. I was in disbelief when I found out my H was seeing the alienator while I was studying for my Acupuncture Board exams and that he spent the whole time with her, probably at our home while I was on a trip to take my exam. He had rehired her to work at his office for months and I didn't know. I was too intent on studying.
He told me he left me because he was sick and needed to heal and that something had snapped in him. He said: Maybe I'll be back in 6 months and if you have someone else...oh well. I spent 3 months knowing nothing about him... where he was and what he was doing. I found out by his old phone which he accidentally left at the house.
There is nothing anyone here can say to make you feel better right now but you can read the articles about an affair down to get some prospective on where the MLCer is at this point in his crisis. Cry is you need to, shout but protect your heart as much as you can. Be around people who love you and pray a lot if you believe. This is the toughest thing I have ever had to go through and it's so heart breaking but keep in mind that they are in a fog. They are escaping the pain....and the OW is just like self medicating. They don't see hear or act as the honorable people we once knew. Take care of you. ((((Big hug)))) SW
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So sorry Bellajo88, I found out Monday there is OW - I was reading this site all night, in between the blur of the tears...it got me through the night.
I can't say anything to make it better, just that you really are not alone - it's the most painful, sickening time of our lives.
You are so much better than him and her, you are a beautiful person that has been horribly betrayed and you don't deserve this, none of us do.
I really hope you get strength from everyone, I feel your pain, but as someone told me, get through one minute at a time, cry and get it all out, and if you're like me, cry again :( you will wake up tomorrow - we're so much better than them.
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I dont believe this - as if it couldnt get any worse I have just had this email from WAP -
LBS,
I am distressed that you seem to have taken some items which belong to me. Since I had your assurances that you would not do that, I am assuming it was done in error. However, I would like your assurance that they will be returned tomorrow. They include:
1) The stainless steel stockpot which was on top of the fridge.
2) Numerous items of cutlery (I had previously separated out all of your cutlery items, which can be found in a bag in D12's old room.) . These include some of the brand new Alessi items I had bought only recently from the supermarket.
3) The Tresemme shampoo and conditioner bottles that were in the bath.
I look forward to your response.
WAP
I didnt knowingly take anything. My friend was packing up the kitchen and probably made a sweep of things. I have found the small things and can take them back tomorrow morning.
I am so upset - is this a form of Monster?
I feel so upset - as if it wasnt enough - that I found out about OW today
My god - he is so cold - I am in disbelief -
I REALLY NEED SOME SUPPORT everyone - I am so sorry...
:(
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I quite simply DO NOT recognise this person.
Is this really MLC?
If so it is starting to frighten me...
:(
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ok Belaggio88
if you need furthre proof that your h is bat$h!te crazy--there it is!!!!
he's giving you grief over a bottle of shampoo???????????????????????
whaaaaaaaat??????????????????????
this is a man whose life is sooooo out of control--who likely knows that you're the glue that's held him together for years and years--who realizes at some level that YOU are the stability in his life--he's trying to feel like he's in control of SOMETHING and it's the shampoo. he's in control of the shampoo. i am sure that will make him feel better.
my one piece of advice to you is--DON'T TAKE THIS $h!te PERSONALLY. that's what it is really--spewed $h!te, because they need to feel IN CONTROL of something. i'm 2+ years into this, and no expert, but am still dealing with h who is so out of control of his own life that he feels the need to try to control mine (which is just fine thank you very much) through emails and texts. it's really insane.
ok, so i lied--here's another piece of advice--GET OFF YOUR H'S CRAZY TRAIN. i know, it's easier said than done. detach yourself from this person who used to be your h. he's not your h right now. this is a complete stranger who has done these devastating things. and you're right there in it--i have been there too. it takes a long time to process all this...it's hard and scary. and it's ALL HIM. don't believe the things he's telling you--that everything is all your fault. IT'S NOT! repeat this to yourself: this is not my fault, this is not my fault.
in any relationship, there are tensions. i finally got myself to the point where i was able to articulate to h that i accepted my responsibliity for what was wrong with our relationship, which i took steps to work on. h just took off with OW.
yes, it's bad. yes, it's hard. and you have a choice. you can choose to look back, or you can choose to look forward...there's really a lot to look forward to--probably doesn't seem like that to you right now...and it's hard to hear that, i know. take one day at a time, then the next, then the next. read threads on this forum. there's always someone to help.
take care of yourself!!!!!
onlyjo
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ok Belaggio88
if you need furthre proof that your h is bat$hit crazy--there it is!!!!
he's giving you grief over a bottle of shampoo???????????????????????
whaaaaaaaat??????????????????????
this is a man whose life is sooooo out of control--who likely knows that you're the glue that's held him together for years and years--who realizes at some level that YOU are the stability in his life--he's trying to feel like he's in control of SOMETHING and it's the shampoo. he's in control of the shampoo. i am sure that will make him feel better.
my one piece of advice to you is--DON'T TAKE THIS $hit PERSONALLY. that's what it is really--spewed $hit, because they need to feel IN CONTROL of something. i'm 2+ years into this, and no expert, but am still dealing with h who is so out of control of his own life that he feels the need to try to control mine (which is just fine thank you very much) through emails and texts. it's really insane.
ok, so i lied--here's another piece of advice--GET OFF YOUR H'S CRAZY TRAIN. i know, it's easier said than done. detach yourself from this person who used to be your h. he's not your h right now. this is a complete stranger who has done these devastating things. and you're right there in it--i have been there too. it takes a long time to process all this...it's hard and scary. and it's ALL HIM. don't believe the things he's telling you--that everything is all your fault. IT'S NOT! repeat this to yourself: this is not my fault, this is not my fault.
in any relationship, there are tensions. i finally got myself to the point where i was able to articulate to h that i accepted my responsibliity for what was wrong with our relationship, which i took steps to work on. h just took off with OW.
yes, it's bad. yes, it's hard. and you have a choice. you can choose to look back, or you can choose to look forward...there's really a lot to look forward to--probably doesn't seem like that to you right now...and it's hard to hear that, i know. take one day at a time, then the next, then the next. read threads on this forum. there's always someone to help.
take care of yourself!!!!!
onlyjo
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Here here!!! Excellent, I could not have said it better myself, am into 2.5 years and Monster still raises it's ugly head even though he moved out a month after BD. Think about this: Cheating is a HUGE control issue, because had they been truthful with us about their feelings prior to commiting adultery, we would have then had a choice about what we wanted to do..My H would show up at MY home months after he left and order our D to let him in the garage so that he could take things that didn't belong to him..I had to put a stop to that and I changed the locks/he knocked it off after that...Honestly, I truly don't know him anymore either..gained 40 lbs and looks terrible, but hey, he's "happy" and tells our D17 that he would"never come back" I never asked him to come back.. :o They need our prayers and let God have them for this season!
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Be Blessed
1Cor13
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there were times when I went to give him a hug and he recoiled - not wanting to have me touch him. When I fakes, hurt, why they was he said that I was showing affection in an insincere way?????? Wtf????
Post bd he has accused me of being a woman who is needy, needs a lot of help etc etc. he has accused me of shoring no sadness or remorse or regret or understanding about his Bd???? He was passively angry when he found out that I had redirected my mail.
I just don't know what else I could have done. I did my very very best.
I just have to assume this is depression, without that as a reason this is all too hard and I feel like I will go under myself
Belaggio88,
Hi there. Having read your posts I have to say - it's mid-life crisis, without a shadow of a doubt, and yes, your WAP is experiencing covert depression. Covert depression is much harder to understand and deal with than the overt type - or I think so, anyway. Because it's disguised. It's self-medicated - yes, often by an OP or some other drug be it alcohol, porn, gambling or whatever other high. Terrence Real's book is great for understanding it. Alice Miller's The Truth Will Set You Free goes perhaps even further into the root causes and why there is a ball of pain inside these people - pain often shows itself as anger (if you read and find almost any good book on Anger, you'll get to understand this bit.)
Why they run, why they hurt is because they know that we, as the most important people in their life, have the power to hurt them. And they don't have the strength to survive that when the inner stuff (VERY often issues from childhood) is eating at them.
IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU. This you must believe and inscribe somewhere you can see and read it every day. It really isn't anything to do with you. In fact, if it helps you, the fact you're the one who's getting the rap means you're the one they love, OK?
Read all the articles on the home page here about the stages of the 'crisis' (the Chinese call it opportunity!) to understand what may happen down the line. But it all takes time. It all takes you being strong, which means you must nurture you, protect you, seek out the things that make you feel good, even if, to start with, they are tiny things.
Yes, your WAP has depression. Of the covert variety. And he's currently 'on the run'. As that phrase suggests, it cannot be run from forever. But some run for a long time before they hit the buffers - and get the help they need.
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I am very sorry for you B....listen to me right now...you are on your own journey....think of it as a whitewater river rafting trip....you cannot see what is coming around the bend, but you know there are times of calm, and then sudden churning rapids which require paddling just to stay afloat! You know this because you've heard of it before....but this is a trip your partner signd the both of you up for, and you would rather be on a boring old cruise and not fighting for survival just as you were getting used to the flow of the river!
Now....put on your life jacket and breathe....you can't get off the boat, so learn to navigate and paddle like a pro and don't take any detours! This river is traveled all the time, so you know it is doable and when people get off at the end they are usually glad of the learning experience, even though the rapids were sometimes terrifying and they have bumps and bruises to show for it.
Follow your guide and TRUST the process....your best guide is your intuition. I PROMISE you that everything will work out as it should and you will be better for it! I PROMISE!!! You and your partner are NOT compatible at this time and NEED to live separately....sux that they always find some lowlife who IS compatible for a season, but hers is only a temp job! She will have influence over your partner so remember to respond and not react to their antics....down the road the power will shift and they will be miserable together...for now, you are not in their picture, and it's not fair but that's the way it is.
You don't have to give back anything...the coldness is a technique used to demonize you so he can detach from you and follow his affair partner straight to hell for awhile...giving back his stuff will not alter anything HOWEVER, following "the Golden Rule" will rack up points in your favor eventually and will make YOU happier in the long run.
PLEASE read every article!! Read them all again every few weeks....all of the answers are there, but you may not be able to see a lot except with time...just please read them....
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I would not respond-find the items if possible and take them back with you tomorrow and try to have the person who helps you only take out of the house just what is yours.
If he persists in texting or email- I don't see where it would hurt to reply.
"Items will be there tomorrow". No explanation.
This is a control issue for them I couldn't agree more..shampoo seriously? Whatever.
Just keep your head- play it really cool- and get your things out. OK?
You need sleep you must be exhausted. You have two more days to get the rest of your stuff.. correct? Will you need both days?
(((HUGS)))
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B...I think the advice you have been given here is EXCELLENT! I agree with it all. My H, two years into the covert depressive phase is yet to admit the OW is anything but a friend, but I know better. Honestly, while knowing is hard and devastating at first, now you know what you are dealing with. Believe me the "is he or isn't he?" place is no fun and has threatened my sanity several times.
I, too, have gotten the business-like e-mails like your partner sent. He always has a reason to contact, but the longer this goes on every time he sends a business text or e-mail it is an excuse to contact me as he will then ask me some more casual personal questions. As the acute phase of separation wears off you may find this to be true (depending on what contact type he falls into). Since he's not hiding the affair anymore he'll probably run and party for a while. HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS. That is hard, but as the good book says, "Sin is fun for a season", but only a season. Like others have said, this is most likely temporary. It does not mean that they will not try to legitimize their relationship, but they will hit a wall sooner or later, especially with a MLCer in covert depression. The excitement will wear off...everyday mundaneness will set in, and the party will be over. Just be prepared, because that could take a while, and you have to decide if you want to wait it out.
I am waiting it out, but in the meantime living my life as if he's not coming back. Just this week I've decided to go a darker shade of dark (I work in the same workplace as my H so I see him during the workweek), and I'm already seeing him floundering because I've stopped being as predictable in my workday routine.
I agree with reading and re-reading the articles. They have literally been my life raft on days when I felt like I was going to drown.
Hang in there...you're not alone.
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Thank you so very much all of you. I cried and cried and I fell asleep so have only just woken up.
I cannot describe the comfort your words have brought me. I am so grateful.
When you are in the midst of this pain you can lose sight of the MLC descriptors - that's why reminding me to read and re read the articles is so well received.
You have reminded me just how zany his email really was. What person asks for his shampoo and conditioner back? Yes, someone who is desperately trying to be in control.
It has also been useful to be reminded that it is covert depression.
Are affairs part of that?
I need to read more about the role of the OP in all of this.
I don't think it has fully hit me.
I really feel like I am in a weird dream - I know that once I have our things out of his space I will be able to truly detach.
Please do pass on any further advice everyone - it's so great to know that we have each other and we are not alone.
How do you get over the betrayal ?
B x
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Bellagio: you get over it one second, one minute, one hour, one day, and one step at a time. There is no timetable for you to adhere to. You get over it at your pace and no one else's. Take your time and grieve. Every day you will get a little bit stronger. Trust me, I am living proof of that. We are here for you, friend. :D
CT 8)
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ditto what CT said!
for weeks after official BD, i felt like i was underwater--everything was in slow motion, and it was really hard for me to just get through each day. i actually got an RX for an anti-anxiety drug and i am glad i did...even though it was so hard for me to physically get through the days, my mind was racing all over the place and i couldn't stop it. that's what scared me most, the feeling that i didn't have control over my thoughts anymore, so i got help.
but just like CT said, everyone is different. there is no one way to get through this, no timetable. the rule of thumb is "let people help you!" we are here for your, as i am sure your friends and family are. i am one of those who struggled to ask for help, and finally realized i had to circle the wagons. i can't tell you how much it helped and how humbling it was to have help from my friends and family in real life and from friends here on the forum. let them help you with your pain. as one of my best friends said "here's how you'll get through this--you'll let your friends and family lift you up". you can do the same thing--especially with us here, who all know what you're going through.
take care of you!!!!! and big hugs
onlyjo
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How do you get over the betrayal ?
This is a really tough one for me. Just about everyone I ever trusted in my life has betrayed me in one form or another- a counselor ( who was telling the ex about my sessions) to my lawyer, to the exmil, and now my own children. And off course the ex.
In youth? My mother. And my father at a different level.
If it weren't for my friends and this forum? I have no idea how I would have made it through this second BD.
The abandonment I have felt has been overwhelming-but I have a great faith in God.
I'm not anywhere near forgiveness unless it's considered forgiveness to proceed with my life without them being a part of it. It is possible for me to do this.
I simply cannot have toxic people in my life that show me no respect right now.
There is life after this- you will get a perspective....(((((HUGS)))))
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Thank you so much CT
Yes I think it is literally one second at a time for me at the moment.
I know that ow has been unhappily married - she perfectly fits the affair down descriptor.i know she has been after him for a while.
I have just been speaking to my mum who was remarking how different WAP is now compared to when she stated with us in 2012. She had a stroke in his house and he was there for her 10000 percent.
He is an alien now.
In all of your experience re ow when if ever do they wake up and realise who this person really is?
I must get back to the articles - am flailing :(
Thanks everyone x
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Bellagio: My H's OW, I renamed her Voldemort, was/is a co-worker of his. Very much an affair down! Talk about being bat-$hit crazy!! It took a while, but she showed her true colors to Mr. CT and he told her to hit the road. Mr. CT started seeing Voldemort in an unflattering way at Christmas. I had a meltdown and went over to his place on Christmas day and unloaded on him. I found out that he was telling that wh@re that he loved her. Yuck. So I laid it all out for him. I told him some things I had learned about Voldemort and what an ugly and evil-spirited person she truly is. I threw some truth harpoons his way as well. ;D I believe everything I said finally sunk into his head and he began to see her differently. I had written it all out on one of my previous threads, but for some reason that thread got deleted. Suffice it to say, he came to me recently and told me that they are no longer together because "she started demanding more, just like you said she would..." Everything I have told him that would happen, has come to pass.
So, yes, they do wake up and realize who that person is. However, it might take a while for that to happen. Take the time to read and re-read and re-read the articles!! I do it all the time!!
You will get better. I promise!!
CT 8)
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Is it possible that this is hitting so hard b/c it is the second time a man you´ve bonded with so deeply has turned so drastically as in is a big piece of the struggle that you are somehow doubting yourself? If so, please try to view it as that you are not purposely sabotaging yourself, rather, you are open hearted and unlucky enough to find two of them in one lifetime. I think it rather speaks to how men are raised in general in that they are taught not to express their feelings other than a superiority or anger. Maybe we should be more surprised that more of them
don´t do this. Anywho, just wondering as you seem especially down and for me that happened when I took an unfair share of the blame.
Hugs,
FTT
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don´t do this. Anywho, just wondering as you seem especially down and for me that happened when I took an unfair share of the blame.
This happened to me also.."if only" I done this or that..the "if only's" drove me nuts the first time. Lead me to such compassion I almost went insane.
The exow in my case last 4 months. They burned each other out pretty fast and it was an explosion when it ended. Threw away 30 years for 4 months. She was an affair down and exit affair-nothing else.
This will get better CRY! AND SLEEP!! (((HUGS)))
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forthetrees is right. Don't take all the blame for this happening. I thought it was my fault that this happened to my marriage. But I have learned that it would have happened no matter who Mr. CT was married to. Yes, I take responsibility for my part in the marriage that was my fault. However, Mr. CT is 100% responsible for the affair with Voldemort and the ensuing destruction that followed in its wake. Bellagio, you are not responsible for your H's affair. As much as it hurts you, you have to try and take the focus off of him, the OW, and turn your focus onto you. Your H is on his journey through MLC, and you are on your journey through MLC as well. This is hands-down the hardest thing I have ever been through. But, I am here. And I get stronger every day. You will too! I promise!! I had to go get meds for anxiety and panic attacks, and to help me sleep. I no longer take the sleep meds, and I had an appointment today with my doctor and we are lowering the dosage on the anxiety meds. I want to get completely off of them. Take some time for you. Go see your doctor, get a counselor. My counselor is a very nice man, but I don't think he truly gets MLC, however, he is helping me focus on ME and not my H. He asks me all the time, every time I see him, "what are you doing for CT?" And that begins our dialogue of what I am doing for ME.
This is a $hitty situation for all of us. But we all understand where you are at right now, as we have all been there too. Trust me when I say you will get stronger every day, because you will.
Hugs and love to you!
CT 8)
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Thank you everyone - have just woken up - I had quite a good sleep[ considering but I took a sleeping tablet which knocked me out cold.
When I opened my eyes the first thing I thought of was the affair. I guess it has been less than 24 hours since I had true confirmation (although I has suspected something).....so I need to time to come to terms with this.
I am going to read a few articles before I leave to get my things - especially about the affair down - the role of infatuation v love etc.
I am not doing too badly in terms of blaming myself. I think in my first marriage I did blame myself quite a lot at point of separation. But not now.
What WAP has done is beyond my comprehension of what is moral behaviour. If they are indeed in MLC - and we hold store and belief in the PROCESS - how do we come to a place of forgiveness? How? I am struggling with this at the moment especially because when D12 and I were in Australia we were spending a lot of time with my grandfather (90) who is dying - he is in hospice. I think about WAP knowing that my GF was suffering, hardly able to breathe, on oxygen and not only did he send BD but he was ALSO sleeping with OW in sordid hotels....I want to cry and scream at the sheer nastiness and immorality of it all. WAP stayed in my grandparents home for gods sake. Do they REALLY lose leave of all of their moral senses at this time?
I am sure this is all too soon for me. But ,my only sense of forgiving WAP in the future is if he comes through the tunnel and faces his demons and OWNS his actions - OWNS the destruction and the damage he is causing. When they are in REPLAY it looks so unlikely...so unlikely.
I have been reading Kittens posts and, whilst it is a different background I am in a similar position - we were not married but I was as if we were - obviously not him.
Like her WAP my WAP has removed all our photos - packed away our things - replaced crockery (he wont even use the old crockery that was his that he used, he has boxed all of that and put it upstairs - its like he was replacing any reminder of us.
Is this usual for covert depression and the early stages of REPLAY - the OW can do no wrong and is some sort of saviour - the LBS is to be treated with contempt and dismissed - rewriting history - deletion of you from their lives?
Forgive me everyone - I no I am stuck in a place at the moment - I will feel better when I have got all my things from his house - it is so hard still walking in there - its not good for me but I have to do it...
Could any of you send any further links/books/ ideas about covert depression and affair partners if you have them.
Thank you for your friendship and understanding...I dont know what I would do without this forum at the moment..
:( Bx
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Just a quick question (I am not sure whether I am eligible for this any more) but is it possible for me to request a mentor?
Am also very very appreciative of everyones posts - just thought it may give me added direction.
I really want to try and cope with this appropriately...........its so hard to explain to people who aren't familiar with the signs etc.
Many of my friends assume that it is just another relationship that has hit the dust - with bad behaviour.
However, as we know, MOST DESCRIPTORS fit our situations.
This many people cant be wrong...
Bx
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Am also interested in hearing stories about touch and goes/ etc after OW has left the scene. What is the ratio of WAH/P that have the courage to look back at LBS - to seen care how they are or what they are doing?
In my case it looks so hopeless - he hasn't even asked where we are living or how we are.
He has categorically stated that it is done, not coming back, no reconciliation.
I know this is script and they really do believe it when they say it.
The question is how do they reverse that thinking? What gives them the courage to do it?
I was trying to find Shantilly Laces' posts as know she went through MLC and the WAH so she has views from both sides of teh fence, especially re depression. Could anyone cut and paste that link for me?
thank you
Bx
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I should think that the 'courage' to do so emerges through remorse and fear....perhaps...and of course, when the fog lifts.
Fear of losing for good what they they were so quick to get rid off.
While they feel in control (foolishly.), all is well in a mlcer fantasy life.
The fantasy fades slowly (or fast in some cases), replay loses its appeal, the fog lifts etc.,,
Certain feelings, thoughts and emotions resurface and as they are srill in crisis at that point, they just act upon those emotions jtst as they have done all along- acting upon emotions that is.
Just a thought...That is what happened with me during my 'crazay' spell. And I couldn't try hard enough to make it up to e eryone.
I was lucky everyone stuck by me during this time. H and kids.
I lost a lot of friends during that time, not everyone is cut out for this.
A lot of people run from crazay.
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B.....slow down. You have plenty of time to learn all there is to know about MLC...PLENTY!! It's all in the articles, and early after BD you won't want to do much but wallow so read and read what RCR has written. I also suggest keeping a journal. I kept a "hate and rage" journal at first....just so I could get those feelings out....it morphed into a completely different thing later on. Maybe get a "cozy Plush", LOL! It's a stuffed animal that you warm in the microwave....I still sleep with mine sometimes! Self care should be your focus....take walks and read the articles :)
Here's some advice....don't tell too many people about your partner or the affair....you really don't know who will stand with you yet and they will pressure you to "DO something" or judge you for not immediately replacing him with someone new. Just play your hand close to the vest right now.
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I agree you have all kinds of time to learn about this.
FOCUS on getting out of the house. Right now it's an excruciating thing to do BUT later it will empower you.
Don't pay any attention to his cold demeanor. Just get out as soon as you can.
Get out of his way so he can find out the grass isn't greener.
Be the example of what a REAL woman can do for your Daughter.
((((HUGS))) YOU CAN DO THIS! Are you going back today?
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I was trying to find Shantilly Laces' posts as know she went through MLC and the WAH so she has views from both sides of teh fence, especially re depression. Could anyone cut and paste that link for me?
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=515.0
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This was posted on Divorce Busters, and I thought it would be nice to share on this thread.
My Thoughts On Why They Run Away During Their Crisis
I thought it would be nice to start a thread on exactly what my thoughts are on why the spouse tends to run away during their crisis. I have done a lot of reading and listening to my friend about his thoughts and feelings during his crisis. So here goes.
Generally the man/woman in crisis has had a terrible childhood. Their childhoods consisted of parents that fought, drank, did drugs, physically and mentally abused their children, emotionally distanced themselves from their children, but most of all abandoned their children. The more I read about the various "learned" personality traits, the more I'm convinced that as children they were mentally abused to the point of not believing in themselves at all. They felt dirty, unwanted, stupid, worthless, their self esteem was shot to hell. The parents had these children, but really didn't love them unconditionally. Most of the "crisis" children have ADHD, ADD, PA, BPD traits. They suffer from bouts of depression, are very good at lying, picking fights, defensive, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, sex and spending. As I've listened to my friend, I've come to realize that even though "crisis" children appear normal on the outside, they have a constant internal war going on inside of themselves. They have been damaged beyond repair at that young age and it will take many years for them to even feel safe w/another person, if then. They feel very threatened by anyone that comes near them emotionally and physically. They can't handle it because they fear that this person will hurt them or take away whatever it is that they hold near and dear in their lives. As the "crisis" child grows up, he/she tends to be a loner, stays to him/herself and doesn't trust anyone to enter their safety zone. They tend to not show their emotions except in bouts of anger and are very guarded about their thoughts and feelings. They tend to distance themselves from others. I call this the dance, because when a person gets close to the "crisis" individual, he/she will distance enough to not feel threatened. You the spouse will never know the real person that lives within the "crisis" person until the two personalities are merged into one. The person you know is actually the shell of a person and he/she is very good at masking what he/she is really thinking at all times. However, during the major growing times, i.e., 20's, 30, and 40's (mid-life especially), the "crisis" person has another problem. It's at this time that the "crisis" child is starting to raise its ugly head, becomes stronger and wants to voice it's opinions on how that person was mistreated as a child. It's at this time, that the splintering/splitting occurs. This where the crisis child is doing internal battle with the crisis adult. The battle is a 24/7 emotional roller coaster for the adult. The pain, hurt and anger are there 24/7 w/o any relief. I've sat and listened to my friend speak of many things that happened in his childhood and to hear the hurt and anguish in his voice makes me want to cry for him. It is at this time when the emotional pain becomes so great that the adult can't handle any other stress in his/her life. This person doesn't trust the spouse enough to speak about the turmoil inside. They feel that the spouse will not accept them for who they are right at this moment. Why? Because that person has now entered mlc and will be there for a while. That person knows that something is terribly wrong and knows that he/she must leave in order to heal those long ago hurts. If you recall, as children, when we were scared or punished, we all wanted to run away. Remember those times? Well, this is what is happening to your mlcer. They are very scared and very hurt and they only thing that they know how to do is run, as the "crisis" child comes on the scene. The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.
As spouses and friends of the mlcers, we must always keep in mind that they are in a very fragile state when the "crisis" child gains control. They are so confused and hurt. The anger is not at you, but at what life has dished out to them. It's the hurt coming out and it's really a delayed reaction to how they were mistreated as children. We have to remember to treat them kindly and with compassion during this time. Why? Because this could have happened to you. During the "crisis" child stage, you will be viewed as the mother/father authority figure, therefore you are the one that gets the brunt of what is happening. They are afraid to speak to their parents for fear of what the parents will do to them. Who better than us to get the emotional flack? They know we love them, they just don't know how to deal with the emotional pain that goes so very deep. Folks, I've had many long conversations w/my friend and I can tell you, he is suffering terribly from his "crisis" childhood. Until he resolves his issues and speaks to his father, he will continue to run and never heal.
I hope that this will help some of you better understand what is happening. I'd welcome all of your comments. As time goes by, I'll post more of my thoughts and observations. Mlc is not a pretty sight by any means, especially if the mlcer is willing to sit down and speak to you about how he/she is feeling. That's why it is so very important to be a friend during the crisis. You will learn so much more about what is going on. Keep the expectations to zero and I feel very strongly that your spouses "crisis" child will speak to you. Listen carefully, sift through the garbage coming out of their mouths and the answers are all there. It's not about you, but about them and how they were mistreated as children.
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I understand this about the ex.
Here's the thing:
Right out of his own mouth he said about his life
" I CHOOSE to focus on the good"
So I'm asking anybody... how's that working out for him now that he has blown his own family entirely out of the water?
Is he doing what he either wanted to do or tried to do with the one he played the role of the "son" in?
He's LYING to himself!!!
It wasn't all Ozzie and Harriet and he simply REFUSES to acknowledge it, I have told him before I understood the humiliation etc he experienced at the hands of his father ( who is now dead) BUT me understanding it doesn't solve the problem. I have a real suspicion there's a lot more that happened to him that he never told me.
MY compassion and understanding doesn't solve this problem; it confused the issue for him.
He could not understand how in the hell he could do what he did divorcing me taking up with someone who's moral character and motives couldn't be trusted.
And after that I'd want anything to do with him. Well he pushed the envelope this time.
I don't ever want anything to do with him because he simply does not know what the right thing to do is.
You don't put your hands on someone in anger.
I am still the one to blame somehow. I'm simply tired of being the doormat and the scapegoat and I'm the one who understands the situation. :o
I had a horrible childhood also but I came to terms with it a LONG time ago. What keeps them from coming to terms with theirs?
In my case? It's all about control for him that's for sure. Fear of intimacy and simply the need for perfection.
And I don't think he will ever resolve this through his mother.
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My last day of moving - yesterday was a hell zone - will write more abhout that later
I just got an email from WAP 5 mins agop - in prep for the next few hours
Thank you for returning the cutlery etc, although there was one Alessi knife short. However, don't worry about it.
There doesn't look much left to take, so when you leave today could you send me an email or a text so that I can return and carry on with tidying and cleaning.
Please also leave the 2 sets of keys, yours and D12's.
Thanks,
WAP
No emotion - nothing - no mention of our history. Just please leave your keys on the table.
My heart is breaking _ I just cant believe the indifference. Is this still part of the MLC train/Covert Depression or am I just dealing with someone who quite simply DOES NOT CARE?
:( :( Bx
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My response to WAP (email)
I will be gone by 2pm and will leave keys on the kitchen table
I wanted to be blank
Bx
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EXCELLENT!!!
Well let's see he's right down to counting the amount of knives he has and then taking the time to mention it. So I guess we are still having control issues.
The wall is up- don't try to counter with any emotion. Just focus on getting the rest of your things. Leave the keys and walk away and watch what happens.
He should have NO reason to contact you after this correct? Or do you two have financial entanglements or insurances together?
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Hi B88,
My H also communicates in a very business like way , he sent me an email about the house once which I showed to my counsellor, she was shocked she said that it was not just cold but artic.
My own personal boundary is to ignore emails written in that tone , I will not let him treat me like that . I ignored to for two weeks and then he send a slightly less cold one which I replied to .
Callan
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Thanks so much everyone. I appreciate it.
Do you think the coldness and indifference is a mask that they use in MLC ? Is this part if replay?
Am confused whether he is still in script or just completely severing.
Init we have no joint finances so yes, there is no reason to contact me now.
I can't believe I may NEVER hear from him again.
Am crying
:(
X
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I cant believe he mentioned this ONE knife.
Oh, and leave your keys on the table.
I feel; as if he is negated any of our history. There is no mention of our time together - totally and UTTERLY emotionally removed.
I cant say this is monster but it feels just as cruel.
And NO MENTION of D12 which is heart breaking...
:( x
I am so appreciative of your he[p everyone - from this afternoon here I will have done my job removing our life from his. And I will then probably fall flat. I have been holding strong for weeks to get to this point.
The reminder that it IS MLC and Cov/Dep helps me through somehow....
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Don't worry about hearing from him again. You FOCUS ON YOU and your daughter.
After this go NC and start to heal.
You are picking men who are unable to feel anything. Be happy you do. Even if it's pain.
Don't worry about scripts or masks- don't drag your feet- get the rest of your things and get right out of the way.
You need to work on your self worth issues.
When you leave? Don't even text or email to let him know- you already said you told him you'd be gone at 2 keys would be on the table. Let him come home to the house empty of your things.
That's it.
(((((HUGS)))))
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I once asked H why he was treating me so coldly , and he said he had to be like that otherwise I might think he cared and he does not .
He then went on to say he has no feelings for me and never will.
Well that told me
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Yep and how do you feel about that now callanG?
Send no mixed messages- your email was perfect Bellagio-
((((HUGS))))
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Bellagio, I'm sorry you are hurting.
That bewildering feeling, that exquisite pain that you can only know when the person you love becomes so cold and callous; the feeling of confusion and betrayal that the person who you believed loved you and would always help protect you from pain and be your comfort is now the cause of the worst pain you have ever experienced is something I will never forget. Although I will say it's become like childbirth - I remember it was the worst pain ever but I can't replicate the exact pain inside now.
All I could do in the early days (heck its still quite early days) was focus on THIS moment. Sometimes I would say out loud "breathe" and "you are ok". Just to try and self-soothe myself through the upcoming minutes.
Take care of yourself and your daughter.
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Yep and how do you feel about that now callanG?
Send no mixed messages- your email was perfect Bellagio-
((((HUGS))))
It stung at the time a lot at the time , now I see it as some kind of projection .
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Exactly- you are the target but you hold up a mirror and it returns to them.
The negative energy needs to be reflected so they understand what respect is.
He has no respect or feelings for HIMSELF.
You purge it in tears and pain- not to them..they may enjoy the power they have to make you react with tears.
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I feel; as if he is negated any of our history. There is no mention of our time together - totally and UTTERLY emotionally removed.
I cant say this is monster but it feels just as cruel.
And NO MENTION of D12 which is heart breaking...
:( x
I am so appreciative of your he[p everyone - from this afternoon here I will have done my job removing our life from his. And I will then probably fall flat. I have been holding strong for weeks to get to this point.
The reminder that it IS MLC and Cov/Dep helps me through somehow....
B88
I am far from an expert on this forum just joining end of last summer. And like you, everyone telling me to GAL, detach...it is so, so hard in the first few weeks and months! I cried for 6 straight months, never thought a person could cry so much. He only saw me break down once, and all the other times I did it privately. It gives them power in the early days and weeks to see you break down.
It is amazing how cold they instantly become to us and it not only confuses us but it is scary as well. It is hard to put that aside and own it up to their crisis, because we tend to take it so personally. It has been 7 months since BD for me, and nearly 2 years that my H and OW are having the affair. JUST NOW...I am starting to see some humility from him. We are selling our house, and I still live here, so there is no chance of NC, which would have helped me.
I have had a chance just recently to inject a few truth darts about OW....and I am starting to see a little doubt in his thinking. But they are together nearly 2 years....It Takes Time. Hard to believe when your world is crumbling around you, weeks and weeks of sleepless nights, lying there in the dark and picturing H and OW cuddling in her bed.
It is hard and I am not sure when it will not bother me anymore.
He has no respect for himself, therefore none for you or D either. At the moment he respects nothing, not even OW.
Read, read and read more of everything on this forum...it helps. There were weeks at a time, I did not, and sitting here with my own thoughts about H, his MLC and OW...it can destroy you. Then I would log on and re-read stuff and it pulled me through in a heartbeat.
I have learned the coldness and lack of empathy towards you is actually what he feels for himself. You are a mirror...when he looks at you he sees himself. As hard as it is, don't take it personally. It took me awhile to get this into my head. I am sitting in a foreign country, my close support system is across the ocean, and H moved to another country. So it was doubly hard for me in many ways.
And though BD was June 2013, I see signs that make me feel positive about the future. I am finally getting over the severe depression that the MLC throws you into to, finally seeing a way to a better life, whether it involves him or not. I, like many here, want reconciliation with our WS. I hope it comes. I told H that in one of our few conversations when he was actually listening. But I also told him I am not waiting for him, and I won't wait forever.
He is 63 (six years older than me)...I told him I don't want a 70 year old man dragging himself across the ocean after living on a CZ farm. He laughed at that statement and I think now, he is starting to see the reality of it.
I am finally learning to move on. I still love him as I understand what he did and why it all happened now. But I am still moving on.
You will too. And you need those crying spells, it helps. (Wreaks havoc on the eyes but helps the soul).
It will help you deal with the life you just got thrown into and will eventually pull you out of it.
Hugs
SGS
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I think for my H (and maybe most), MLC happened earlier because we have a teenage son (who we had early in our marriage at ages 20/21). Teenage son got a GF and we were talking about job opportunities after school and such. I think this brings up a great desire for H to have experienced the life he wished he would have had or make him wonder what could have been. Also, I had a male neighbor friend who I talked to and talked about who I seemed to have more in common with than H. I had no idea when I met the family that he was the stay-at-home dad and the wife worked. H was working long hours and finances were in trouble despite me working PT too and making good money.
I was reading this article last week http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html which I think is a great explanation as to why maybe my H is disappointed/depressed/unhappy. H had OW during MLC which OW is gone but MLC is still around, but I am hoping to help him financially (we are in a BIG rut now since the affair), so that he can pursue, instead of OW (plural!), hobbies or something that will get him out of the daily grind. Unfortunately the PT job I had is not working out anymore because of the economy, but I am pursuing other things. Our situation is also different in that I have a son with a disability at home who homeschools and is doing well in that situation.
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Thanks so much everyone - I am intending to spend this evening responding properly to what everyone has said - it will be a great comfort to fully reflect on things..
I have just got back from WAPS house. I have moved. Every item that I or my D12 own is now gone from that space.
He has begun to tidy up and replace the space with his own things.
It was interesting in that a friend of mine came to help me pack. She saw the house as I finally saw it - instead of a home it was a house of emptiness - a shell of a house. No warmth, no love, no children, empty rooms - that is what WAP is walking back into right now.
Maybe I am in denial but In cannot believe that he would not feel anything about this emptiness in a him e that we have shared for years.
His email is cold but I dont buy it.
I have to run to my friends house as she has loaned me some crockery in the interim and I am returning it but will post in a little while - will have time to really reflect on your great advice and comfort.
Thanks everyone
B x
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Have done the grocery shopping. visited my friend and tried to tidy up after a very big day.
It still isnt quite hotting me that we are OUT. We now have no tangible ties with that property anymore.
Struggling tonight but not crying - numb to the core. I want to hug my little girl and try to make sense of where we go from here.
Nearly four weeks in and I have achieved so much- a huge amount in practical terms - but i have shelved the full impact of this emotionally (ESPECIALLY discovery of OW on Wednesday).
I think it is now hitting me....
Trying so hard to be strong - really trying hard to hold it together but our lives feel in complete tatters..
As someone said earlier - the person we trusted with our heart, trusted with our safety and well being could do this - be this removed - hard of heart - cold - indifferent...
I am struggling to understand that they deep down dont feel anything.....guilt, remorse, sadness (interesting - all the things he accused ME of not feeling at BD??)????
Maybe I am not GETTING the early stages of REPLAY quite yet. My head is spinning and I am probably not making a lot of sense....
:( B x
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Hi all,
Have just woken up and had an immediate feeling of sadness but then - interestingly - a form of relief.
Relief that I now dont have to go through the pain of going into WAPs house anymore (I left our keys on his kitchen table).
Relief tHAt I havent got CONSTANT triggers about things that have happened there...
Relief that as D and I unpack our things we are creating some stability and control in our lives which is good for us.
Also - in a funny way - having moved like this - and so swiftly and efficiently - is NOW giving WAP the TRUE chance to have space and go through this tunnel on his own terms without interference from me.
I was thinking about this this morning. Is this part of the letting go process. Letting them twist in the wind and journey through the REPLAY without allowing ourselves any full impact of what plays out.
I feel as if I want to use the time now to be the BEST I can be - I want to read, sleep, work, exercise and be a great MUM (foremostly) - the hardest thing is that he wont see any of it. He wont see any changes. I know the changes have to be myself but I just wish he could at some stage see the worth of the people that we truly are. If there is no contact in the future (I suspect there may not be as there is no obvious reason - no shared children etc) then is there any hope?
I have read somewhere here that by GAL the WAP somehow, somewhere, makes contact and will see the changes......
B x
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As I am unpacking here I realise something...
My WAP and I are no longer connected by anything except our shared history.
We have no shared belongings - completely separate houses and finances. No shared children. Mutual friends but not ones that I would meet in a social situation.
I feel our connection is severed. How can people be deleted in less than a month???
So how do we Pave the Way - how do we stand for something where there isn't any potential contact, thought, care and interest...
Maybe its all been too much and too soon for me to get some insight into this.
Is there any particular article or thread that would help???
Thank you BX
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What you need to try to wrap your brain around is they were way down the road before this happened; maybe not really ever connected to begin with.
Work on yourself.
If you need to think about how the relationship got started to begin with. You may have saw the red flags but simply ignored them.
SEE the mistakes you made then- and try not to make them again.
I can relate to your relief that it's over.
MAKE real changes for you. Don't worry about him. Just thank your lucky stars you didn't marry him or have kids with him.
(((((HUGS)))))
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Thanks Init - I really appreciate your support - everyone here has been second to none to be honest.
I do understand what you are saying and as each minute goes by I have a dawning realisation that this is my chance to grow into the new and better version of me for my life and D.
I have thought a lot about when we met and there were, potentially, some behavioural things to note. However WAP seemed to "clear the decks" (as his best friend pit it at the time) - in a way he had NEVER done before in the last 35 years. I know the truth about our relationship and he was devoted to myself and D12. I have no doubt about that whatsoever. He wanted myself and D in his house - he wanted the home environment.
That said I can clearly trace the beginning of covert depression about 15 months ago to bomb drop. I am convinced that this is what has happened....
So - that said - maybe it is too soon to think about standing or not but my suspicion is yes, I should. Why? Because his behaviour over the last 4 weeks since BD belies the person that I knew......
So that is where I am confused.....perhaps it is merely time that informs us whether we choose to stand or not...
B x
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I guess- but do the work on you. Make a home for yourself and D12 and don't worry about him.
Take a look at you and find out if your self worth is coming from these men you pick.
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Yes, ok Init..... I know. Make the best life I can for myself and D. I can do it.
Before I met WAP I was a single mother for three years so I am going to remind myself of that time - if only because I did what needed to be done every day by myself and I had my dignity and integrity intact.
That's an important reminder for me at the moment .
B x
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EXACTLY- and try to think of your D also- try not to drag her through another relationship.
Leave anyone else out of her life for a while. She's probably had her heart broken also. If you want to date? Go right ahead just don't let anyone else meet her unless it becomes SERIOUS. And that's going to take TIME.
Find someone you can trust to stay with her- overnight if you have to. NOBODY at YOUR house.
ENOUGH- get off the roller coaster merry-go -round for a span of time.
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Thank Init - I appreciate your input....
I am having a quiet time with with D in our apartment - resting, tidying up, thinking, reading...
I have to say dating is the last thing I am thinking of doing. I am still in love with WAP - (it doesn't go as quickly as events can transpire in life does it?).
So my task is to decide, down the line, whether to stand or not..
In the meantime I am trying to, as you say, look after me and D and read read read as much as I can here..
Thank you all for your support over what has been one of the most difficult weeks of my life..
B x
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I know it must be difficult with children but trust me they also give you so much reason to stay strong and move forward too. You're handling this very well BellaGio88. Sorry for misspelling your display name. Know that that you're not alone and enjoy the time with yourself and your D... (((hugs))) SW
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Thank you so much Strongwind - I must say that I am feeling a little less panicky tonight - it has helped getting our little place in order and not living out of boxes.
My D12 is very relaxed here which is very good.
Have just spoken with my Mum on Skype (she is in Oz) so that was also a tonic.
I am starting top realise that small things mean so very very much in these situations.
Thanks you for your vote of confidence that I am coping well - I am not so sure about that@!! But I am really trying to turn a corner - I want to feel more empowered and less run by my emotions, especially about the OW etc.
It is very much a case of up and down for the LBS at the beginning isnt it???
B x
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Hi Bellagio
Really glad to hear you and your D are both settling into your new safe place.
I've been wondering how to put this gently, but I'm not sure that there's a gentle way of saying this.
his behaviour over the last 4 weeks since BD belies the person that I knew......
You've said that you knew your H for two and a half years, have been living together for two years, and you noticed big changes in him about a year after you met.
You've also said that he has a history of short relationships and quickly moving onto new women.
Because of this and his family of origin issues, you and his brother have wondered if he has NPD. Or whether this is a crisis, or whether this is NPD plus a crisis.
From the timeline, it looks like the infatuation chemicals with you kept him functioning on a high for the first year and then started to wear off.
Despite what his friend says anecdotally about things being different with you, your H has a long history of this relationship patterning.
I'm sorry, I know how much this hurts, but if we don't look at our own roles in these relationships, we will continue to drag ourselves and worse, our children into situations that they are best kept well away from.
You have done amazingly well to get yourself set up in your new flat, and to have organised moving all of your things from his home. Keep going, and keep concentrating on you and your D, and good things will be ahead of you, whichever way this situation turns out.
Take care
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You must be exhausted. Make this new place a cozy nest and spread your personal touches throughout. You will find it to be your sacred space. This experience is a shock to the mind, body and soul- takes so long to digest and while we heal while digesting, the healing seems to be endless. Turn the energy on you and leave him to figure out what he´s done, what he´s lost and what he needs to fix. He may very well need to run through another relationship to realize what he gave up. He may also just continue a path of lust-infatuation-love-loss. Those are the people afraid of the deep love that grows as the passion cools to a long lasting glow. Maybe he´ll resolve long standing issues and maybe you´ll find someone who is not afraid of that deep love. For the sake of your sanity, please check out baggagereclaim.com, the author is so insightful and gives it to ya straight. You come away with a stronger sense of self and worth.
Take care,
fTT
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Thank you all for your input - care - support - wisdom .......
I am computing all of the advice that has been given and I will get back to points etc....I am a bit like that - need time to ruminate on things!!!
I bought the ebook version of Broken Heart on Hold today by Lina Rook.
WOW!!!!
I have read about half and something inside of me has shifted today - I wanted to share...
One thing that I havent really addressed here so far is my faith. I am a Catholic and became one late in my life - only about 3 years ago. I went through a very intensive theological process to assess (self) whether that is what i truly wanted.
I would like to think that whilst being a Christian I am fundamentally a humanist and I support all faiths - I truly think we can learn the best elements of each faith and grow from each others experiences.
For some reason God hasnt been at the forefront of my thinking - until today and reading this book has reminded me of a few things.
About a month before BD, WAP was away working, I woke up one morning and I felt very very odd.
It was as if God has visited me and spoken to em and held his hand on my heart (I know this may sound a bit odd!!)
I have never had this happen before. But I can remember waking up with the sense that my heart was at peace. It was at a time when WAP was veery distant and I was confused and worried - I did not know how to reach him.
I had forgotten about this until today...
I was also unpacking a lot of my books last night and I found 5 small handbooks on prayers and readings from the Bible that I had not seen since I lived in Ireland......I had forgotten I had them.....
Reading Rooks book has made me feel very differently somehow today. Not so distressed, not so panicky.....
Its started to remind me about my own life and my relationship with God - may be this is all part of the journey and I am only just realising???
MM - not sure whether I am explaining myself very well - but I am in a much calmer and settled space which is good for me and good for D.
In a sense it has helped me to let go and let god and trust in the process...
Hope this makes sense???
B x
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In a sense it has helped me to let go and let god and trust in the process...
Hope this makes sense???
Absolutely - it definitely makes sense.
Hand it over to a power higher than ourselves - that IS a part of our journey :)
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Am having a major dip today - I wish I was stronger. I really really do ..... the calm that I felt yesterday seems to have momentarily vanished - leaving a gaping wound in me....
I hate being like this.
I am understanding more and more about the process and importance of letting go and detaching but it is so hard.
Since I handed back our keys there has been silence and its so painful....
It is almost like we (myself and D) never existed.
I have been busy today - taking boxes to our storage centre, going to the laundrette to do our washing (my washing machine arrives next week) ...
I am changing my address with a lot of companies. That is also very hard.
I am back at my work full time from tomorrow - maybe I am also feeling nervous about that. I have had 4 weeks leave because of the strain and I ma back in the saddle very soon/
I just wanted to share with you all. I am struggling today - missing the man that I thought would be there for us.....
Hugs :(
B x
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I am struggling today - missing the man that I thought would be there for us.....
That is the hardest hurdle for me too Bellagio. I have struggled with that for over a year now. It's surreal to have them check out like that as if we never existed. You're not alone. It's very painful but we need to remember that these spouses are not the same people we once knew. Something snaps in them and they change. Another LBS once wrote me: They stay away because they need to justify what their are doing and so contacting us or being civil reminds them of the pain they are causing. They want avoid that. They are in replay and possibly will be for a long time.
Know that you are not alone and that all of us have and are struggling with the pain of this sudden separation from our once loving spouses. It's excruciating but we have no control over them...only over our thoughts and actions. You're doing well. Know that. (((hugs))) SW
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Thank you so much StrongWind - for your support.
We all know how much each others support means at times like this....
I am reminded today of two facts -
firstly my D and I were in australia visiting my near 90 year old grandfather who is dying - he is getting weaker and weaker by the minute....
he was extremely ill and in a huge amount of pain and suffering when were were in Oz over Xmas.
I told WAP that by text and I received no acknowledgment of my grandfather at all/
The last day D and I saw him was a day after BD and i was completely traumatised.
I am struggling with knowing that that is the last I will see of him.....
I am struggling to think that WAP, who has STAYED with my grandparents a few years ago and was generous and kind to them - did not even acknowledge this was going on.
In fact he said he told me by email in Oz "so that D and i would have the support of my family"
What - for 5 days before we had to fly home. With my family already in upset re my grandfather.
This is hurting me today.
WAP and I (I am a pianist) had three concerts booked (one late January - two this month) and he asked me in the BD email whether I thought we should proceed with them (that it would be professional etc).
I cannot BELIEVE he would think that it is right to rehearse with me, on a daily basis, after dropping the bomb and having an affair with OW>
Is this all part of the MLC'ers delusion and crazy thinking.
I just DONT GET IT...
I miss my grandfather - sorry everyone
x
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you don't need to be sorry. Come here to vent as much as you like. We are like minded and know what you're struggling with.
They all act as if this is no big deal. They have to. To justify their behavior. It's all ok. Sure??? Our lives is in shambles and we are traumatized because our H's have turned into aliens and we should just go on as always? :o
If you let them know that you're not well they also give advise on what you can do to feel better but don't take responsibility for causing this enormous trauma. My H brought me some Xanax and said I should take em, than brought me some weed, which he took back when he realized I wasn't using it. I was shocked. In his eyes nothing that traumatic had happened????? Bat $h!te crazy!!! (sorry for my French) Don't listen to a word they say...they make no sense and most of what they say and do is nonsense. My H asked me to babysit the dog because he was going on vacation with OW and since I didn't let him know that I knew he said he was going on a business trip. I kept my mouth shut about what I knew just to see how much he could lie and how good.
As he left the house after dropping the dog I said: "Well, have fun" I smiled but inside I was breaking up. He responded with a sad puppy look: "Yea sure it's not fun" He took a stack of playing cards from the house and I asked him. Why do you need cards if you're going alone to your business trip. He responded: I like to practice on my own. They act as if we are mom...as teenagers do. Please don't let his action determine your worth. I did. I didn't have this forum at the time. Stay connected with us and let him go as much as you can. They are not in their right mind right now. Not easy, I know, but necessary for your sanity. (((hugs)))
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I went to work today and spoke with my boss - he is a wonderful man and has agreed that I can work from home to fulfill all of my work responsibilities for the next week or so. We drafted a plan of action and he was happy with that.
He could see that I needed some more space. I do believe that God was stepping in. So I am grateful.
Strongwind - thanks for your feedback - I too am amazed at how many similarities there are between all of us in terms of what we experience etc.
I DO NEED TO DETACH.
I am struggling hard today - I have strong feelings and I am a very feeling person to begin with. I know that there are no guarantees.
It is hard to acknowledge that but I have to accept it with grace and understanding of the bigger picture.
I drove home from work today and sobbed. I asked God for assistance, for help in finding my own strength, my own calm and peace. To let WAP walk his own path without disruption and trusting in the process.
I wish I was stronger but I have to remember it is less than 5 weeks since BD.
I am going to read all of the suggestions re Depression. I do think the more educated I am in this area the more calm I will find. The fact that WAP has himself admitted to being depressed is a good start.
I will post more later - re thoughts etc. Thank you for your support everyone.
Bx
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Hi everyone,
Just touching base - am working away on things and have stopped for lunch.
the wave of sadness has hot me - I have been busy up toll now but I am flooded with tears....
just wanted to reach out to people who understand how hard this is - 5 weeks since BD.
I have to keep reminding myself that i am doing well - that I am keeping myself and d going.....
Trying so hard to detach....
Have been reading quite a bit over the last few days about male depression and it fits so many gaps that have been gaping open for the past year - it makes sense of things that I simply didnt understand at the time.
Understanding this is a comfort but it doesnt take away the pain of their indifference and running away...
Needing a wee bit of support.....
Thanks everyone
B x
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- 5 weeks since BD.
bellagio,
Hang in there. it's all still raw for you after 5 weeks. Focus on YOU and your GAL! Take care of yourself. It will get easier. I am 6 months since my wife dropped the bomb and honestly its been in the last couple months that I have been able to really detach and not cycling with her is easier. Keep reading the articles and other sources; it helps! Keep venting it out here for support!
-OneByOne-
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Thank you onebyone thank you for the support
I feel quite isolated today - not that I haven't had contact with people but i feel isolated in that my friends and family can only understand this specific type of grief to a certain point.
Many of them, I am sure, quietly assume that it is another normal breakup
But it isn't. It just isn't.
I am trying to GAL and put myself and D first - I am no contact/dark and am not wanting to make contact.
neither is WAP at the moment
The wisdom here, for myself and D, is top detach and let him travel his journey......act as if he will never come back.
I am trying to do that but I struggle - with BD it was all too sudden.....I read somewhere that that is the difference between a normal breakup and MLC - BD....
It feels like such a severing and such a change from the person that I knew (or thought I did) - i know other people here are feeling this too.
It is so hard to make sense of this journey
B x :(
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Dear Bellagio, Yes, their journey is our challenge. The only people who are living this nightmare can see that this is not a normal breakup. It's NOT a normal breakup!!! People try to make sense of this by stating that the divorce rate is 50% 60% 70% in US because in their own way they want to reassure us with statistics and that this is normal. Our H or W's change completely...We can't even see a trace of the person we thought we knew for years. It's difficult to come to term with this. It can drive us bonkers. Fortunately, we can come here, read and learn and get the support and reassurance we need.
You're not alone we can understand what you're going through. The change that our spouses go through in MLC is shocking. :o As you read other LBS's story, you will find similarities and, as sad as it is, we can at least know that this is not our fault and it's their problem. Take care of your heart first and formost. May God protect your heart each and every day as you trust in the process one day a time...one hour at a time....(((hugs))) Sw
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It's NOT a normal breakup!!! People try to make sense of this by stating that the divorce rate is 50% 60% 70% in US because in their own way they want to reassure us with statistics and that this is normal. Our H or W's change completely...We can't even see a trace of the person we thought we knew for years. It's difficult to come to term with this. It can drive us bonkers.
I agree. Even my H quotes the statistics. Like its perfectly normal to do this. NOT. I try to explain the complete 180 change, but people just cock their heads to the side and try to humor me. Like I'm insane. Or deluded. Or in denial. You name it, I've been called it. The ones on the outside just don't understand......maybe one day they will........
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Yep- the brain exow told him "Oh-EVERBODY goes through this"
Uhmmm.. no... they don't.
Wow - how they get themselves into such a state as to listen to these predators is beyond belief. :o :o
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Thank yo8 everyone - it is such a RELIEF to know that we are among people who UNDERSTAND.
I know that WAP has expected me to be "adult" and "practical" in terms of this separation.
I am adult and I am practical.
I am also in grief and I DONT RECOGNISE HIM.
When the WAH/W/P drops the bomb THAT is the tell tale sign, let alone anything that comes afterwards - that this is not normal.
My WAP dropped the bomb by email - even more out of reality.....
I have been reading quite a bit about male depression - EVERY book outlines the withdrawal/detachment leading up to BD - the irritability - the OW - the self medication. etc
What I dont understand is why people cant see this more for what it is.
Thats why this site is so important - you only need to look at how many people post here to know that this is happening all around the world - that age, colour, religion etc is NO BARRIER to MLC....that we are all [potentially able to be hit by the trauma...
To be honest just the sheer fact that you are all out there - and I am very very sorry to say - experiencing similar grief - makes this journey bearable.
thank you everyone. Today has been an up and down day..
B x
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The ex typed me a letter and handed it to me as I woke up from a nap in what once was our bed.
Then he left- probably to go see her.
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What!!
That is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE
They are completely and utterly out of reality.
That is insane.
Did he just hand it to you when you woke up and then walked out?
B x
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Yep- didn't come back until midnight.
Then he threatened my life to get what he wanted financially.
I left and settled.
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Yes, hey do that and worse. My husband wanted to send me to Italy> Him and his mom tried to convince to go so that he could BD while I was there with family. I didn't go and he had to find another way to drop the grenade. He asked me to give him some space away from home. (I'm sure it meant with OW). After 4 days he called and said that he had enough space to think and that he didn't want to be with me anymore.
He would cry every time he saw him for really unexplainable things. After our mediation meeting he said that I had just gone to Italy all of it may have not happened. Can anyone make any sense of that? I know that our H's are in a crisis but I believe the OW has a lot to do with them leaving like they do. No, all of this isn't normal at all.
I feel your pain Bellagio. If you can, give it all to God. It's all we can do. Cast your cares upon Him for he cares for you. much love (((hugs))) SW :-*
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Strongwind - I am simply AGHAST that your H would have wanted you to go to Italy???
I guess my WAP had the perfect opportunity because I had planned to go to Oz (my grandfather id dying etc)....
I wonder how he would have coped if I had gone - like you????
WAP has apparently told friends and family - after BD - that he BDed me in Oz because he wanted me to "have the support of my family"...
Mmmmmmm - ??????
Found a brilliant quote on the DB website - really interesting.....
"The longing to leave one’s intimate partner brings out something that isn’t much discussed in descriptions of depression. It is the active face of the illness. We often focus on the passive symptoms, the inactivity, the isolation, sense of worthlessness, disruption of focused thought, lack of will to do anything. But paradoxically the inner loss and need can drive depressed people to frenzied action to fill the great emptiness in the center of their lives. They may long to replace that inadequate self with an imagined new one that makes up for every loss. "
And this one......
The reason I post that here is to perhaps point to how depression, as what is believed the underlying condition throughout MLC, may be a factor in the MLCer's drive to fill the void they feel within themselves. Even desperately so, at an aggressive pace. Can anyone say "OP" and "replay"?
Yes, I can say replay and OP...they long to find something that will excite them and make them feel alive. Many of mlcers will state that they feel smothered or will die if they continue to live under the same roof w/us. It's actually the depression talking.
.......notice how they "find" that passion to pursue what they think they want. What they don't seem to realize (the depression coaxing them) is that the passion is coming from within them. They think the passion is coming after the fact, as a result of this new change, new love, new apartment / job / car.
That chemical released in the brain is doing the same thing for them as the alcohol or other drug is doing. Allowing them to avoid the depression. The booze gives them passion and fills the void, or the OP does...
Depression seeks to avoid by reaching out for external stimuli.
The whole "I can't go back there" is them thinking that a metaphor is reality. "There" being their fear of the void of depression. But they relate it to being literally us, or the M, or our old house, or whatever... "There" changes as they loose their current passion for something / someone and the run to the next.
And the depression blocks their ability to see what was, before depression struck. It's a moment in time which is all the history they can focus on. And all their history begins to be re-woven around that specific moment.
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Would be very interested in hearing peoples thoughts about these.........I know in my heart, soul and mind that this is my WAP. The more I think about the way he was detaching - the spacy looks he was giving me - the disconnect - the irritability - the OW playing into his hands (singing student, adoring etc) - he even said himself that he has felt a "worry" and "pressure" about all of this - that the relationship caused him "great concern"...
Another interesting bit is that I spoke to a good friend last night who knows OW...she said that she has, to the best of her knowledge , always been quite a decent person. She has been unhappily married for some years - 4 children but all pretty much grown up - my friend suspects that WAP has fed her (OW) BS about the actual status of my relationship with him..........certainly not divulged how he dropped the bomb.
OW knew of myself and D - she knew that we all lived together - so she cant be given TOO much sympathy here....
My friend also agreed that there may be more than one OW in WAPs case - and that, in her own words, he is "heading for a fall - he will hit the wall - sooner rather than later....."
B x
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I know that our H's are in a crisis but I believe the OW has a lot to do with them leaving like they do. No, all of this isn't normal at all.
(((hugs))) SW :-*
I agree with Strongwind, Bellagio. In my Sitch I read over 7000 FB messages between H and OW the months leading up to BD. She was mounting massive amounts of pressure on H to move to her house. "It's time to start bringing your clothes here", "I am tired of waiting, I changed my life for you and I see no results", "I can't take it anymore, coming home alone to an empty house", "I don't hear any schedule coming from you when you will bring your stuff here"... and on, and on, and on.
In between all of these pressure points, she inserted how he is the man for her, the one she has been looking for all her life, she wants to share all the wonderous things in her country with him, she called him a child :o many times, said she raised two already and it is no trouble to start now with a third one.
And I know RCR and many here have said it is H fault...but in my case the OW had her eyes on him for many years, said she had been waiting "for when he was down, was alone". When his crisis was reaching it's lowest levels, she was there. Her first attempt did not work (acc. to their FB mess.) but the second one hit the jackpot.
She is a predator of the first order. And she knew our Sitch very well, as she used to be a friend of mine.
Hang in there Bellagio, it is just the beginning for you. Take care of you first....time for you to become selfish. It took me 7 months to learn that.
SSG
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Thanks so much for your5v reply - I have followed your sitch with interest as our WAP/H are around the same age - at first I was unsure whether a 62 man could be in MLC (WAPs age) but I realise age does not come into it with MLC...
In my case WAP and OW have known each other for about a year - she has been having lessons with him for about 8 months......
Its possible that she was sinking her claws in and he was feeling more and more crappy.
by all accounts he has been unhappy in her own marriage.
but lets be honest here - two unhappy people - how can that really work in the long run???
My friend said that, in her opinion, there is NO way that OW would ultimately leave her husband - that she seems to sensible to do that???
More than any of this I know that whatever plans/hopes OW pins on WAP - at the end of the day WAP cannot be AVAILABLE to anyone - he is in the midst of the crisis and will tire of her before he runs to his next "passion" to fill his empty void.
I know how much D and I meant to him. So therefore if he could dispense with us this easily he can do the same to her - once the gloss wears off - possibly when it becomes public and the covert excitement is no longer there...
What do you all think??
Maybe I am just not wanting to think that what they have is "true love"......My view is that he has lied to so many people about the truth of her (including his best friend) - if it were THAT important why would it need to be so secretive????
B x
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Maybe I am just not wanting to think that what they have is "true love"......My view is that he has lied to so many people about the truth of her (including his best friend) - if it were THAT important why would it need to be so secretive????
I think they keep it a secret because they are feeling ashamed. They can justify it as much as they want to but we all know what is right and wrong. Their love or infatuation, is not clean, not sane. It's dirty full of lies deceit and hiding. We can't hurt someone else and not hurt ourselves. Another way of putting it: We can't build a castle on a ruin and we can't build happiness at the cost of another person's pain. Life isn't fair but things have a way of coming back around so that we can grow and learn.
We all struggle with wanting to help the MLcer but this is a journey he must take on his own. Being selfish now, like SSG wrote, is imperative for you now. Take care of you and let God take care of the MLcer. (((hugs))) XO SW
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Thank you Strong Wind - that was really sound advice and was a very helpful reminder that the OW is a self medication device.
My WAP has known OW for about a year and I know that he has travelled to her house???> to give her singing lessons - they have also been at certain concerts etc with other people that they know - she has travelled to see him perform - usually when i am not thee./
I am trying to not think that this has been going on for a while but I guess it is possible :(
what I DO know is that , if it was (and it probably was) happening before BD then he would have been feeling guilt and shame.
I made it clear from the day I met WAP - I can cope with almost anything - just not cheating.
I just cant accept it......I can understand it though....
He knew this and, outwardly, accepted it.
So - the irony is now/..........
They have been completely covert about this - WAPs bets friend was CONVINCED - about 4 weeks ago - that WAP was not involved with anyone outside of our relationship. Why - because WAP apparently looked him in the face and ASSURED him that this was the case.
So - even after 8 days after BD he was still wanting to keep it a secret...
To add fuel to the mix, when I returned to the UK on Jan 6th, and went to collect the first of our things from WAPs house (essential items) there was a photo of a woman on WAPs desk.
I have never seen her before.
And - this is NOT the OW he was with in the hotel over the weekend of 4/5 Jan.
So its POSSIBLE that there is more than one OW...
This is already out of control let alone thinking that there is more than one.
Its almost easier for me to understand his need to run if there is more than one.
How could he cope?????
Perhaps when they are in the depths of REPLAY/Depression - they can cope with the weirdest and most crazy things...
:( x
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Yep- it's their DRAMA leave them to it and be thankful you are away from it.
Keep the focus on you and don't try to understand it. You may in time.
You are spending valuable energy on trying to figure it out and he isn't worth it.
Focus on you and your D.
He's a musician? That should be your first clue- he's all about him. He's probably going to collect women before he's too old to do that.
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He has updated his Facebook page and has taken me off as "being in a relationship"....
I usually never check Facebook and usually don't worry about it...
Now I am being silly but it is a jolt......
I must focus on myself and D...
INIT - you are right - I am expending valuable energy....
Just feeling a bit silly and sad.....
Yes - he is a singer - very centrered on his singing and his image - especially probably with women....
I need to detach more now - for my won sake...
:(
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Ok - I am now realising the vital importance of letting go- going dark/NC etc...
I have a sneaking suspicion that if I dont I am going to be hit with further upsetting news (for some reason) - its just a feeling.....
I am sitting here and my overwhelming feeling is that I need to really really move out of this space re WAP
I am concerned I am going to go through more hurt otherwise...and I REALLY cant at the moment....
Blast - I was doing really well today but i am suddenly derailed...
Trying really hard here...
:(
Thanks everyone for your suppport
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You mean the apt you just moved into?
STAY OFF FACEBOOK!!!!
NOW these guys egos NEED TO BE FED.
NO MORE POTENTIAL OR PRACTISING OR PROFESSIONAL MUSICAINS FOR ME anyway.
They are so self centered and narcissistic you will NEVER be able to get through to him.
ESPECIALLY VOCALISTS!
Have a party and celebrate not having anything to do with him.
He's on his way down a lonely deluded road. YOU have a life. He's getting his FEED from the outside.
((((HUGS))))
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No - not moving out of the space (apt)!!! - just moving out of the EMOTIONAL space I have been in....
I agree - I actually dont usually go on Facebook at all - I dont like it - it bothers me and I think many people can get the wrong impression when people post on there......I used to post quite a bit but not any more.....
You are right - he is getting his feed from the outside - I have to believe in myself and my D more at this time.......
I have worked with singers for most of my life - I am well used to their personalities and, to be honest, some of them are my dearest friends......but i am well used to handling their particular personalities...
I guess I am realising that, for my own health and well being - that I need to remove myself emotionally.
I am not sure how you (INIT) or anyone else sits here with this but you get to the point where you cant handle any more pain and upset - you need some respite.
WAP is completely silent so at least I am not having to deal with boomerang/monster etc.....it does afford me the space to readjust and find my centre and my strength.....
Thank you for your support everyone
x
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I am not sure how you (INIT) or anyone else sits here with this but you get to the point where you cant handle any more pain and upset - you need some respite.
EXACTLY! And that's the "letting go" point AFTER you've had ENOUGH pain that's it. There's no place to go but up.
I haven't talked or spent anytime with my 2 D's since this happened. And it killed me for a while and now? it's simply something I've accepted also. I tried to reach out to them a couple of times in emails. They want things on their own terms. it ain't happening.
They WERE my whole life and now treat me like $h!te- so forget that too.
They've been with their entitled attitude father too long he managed to undo in 9 months any good I tried to do in 20 years. They are brainwashed into thinking I'm crazy.
So there's nothing to do but stay on the path I'm on. Keep your D close. You two can get strength and joy from each other.
((((HUGS))))
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Am feeling a little calmer - thanks Init....
I am surprised at my wobbly - I thought I was more settled than tat.
Do any of you also experience these set backs/wobbly moments? When info/events come left of centre and you are not prepared (I guess BD is a prime example!)
I am slowly but surely accepting that we have no place in WAPs life now and vice versa...
It is a hard reality to come to terms with after only a few weeks. But it is the truth.
He has chosen a different life and he does not want us to be part of it.
And, if there is TRULY depression underlying this - then we are best not to be around him either.
Tough tough day - I am grateful for the support
x
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I am slowly but surely accepting that we have no place in WAPs life now and vice versa...
FOCUS on the vice versa part - more than half of this is you do not want him in YOUR LIFE not that he doesn't want you in his.
Who wants an aging depressed musician in their life? You want and deserve to be happy. SO DOES YOUR DAUGHTER. Seeing you like this won't help her.
Cry do whatever you need to get through this. But try not to waste anymore POSTIVE energy in his direction.
You'll have triggers and he'll take up headspace for a while. NO MORE relationships UNTIL you can see what respect and a healthy relationship is FOR YOU!
(((HUGS)))
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Thanks so much for your5v reply - I have followed your sitch with interest as our WAP/H are around the same age - at first I was unsure whether a 62 man could be in MLC (WAPs age) but I realise age does not come into it with MLC...
In my case WAP and OW have known each other for about a year - she has been having lessons with him for about 8 months......
Its possible that she was sinking her claws in and he was feeling more and more crappy.
by all accounts he has been unhappy in her own marriage.
but lets be honest here - two unhappy people - how can that really work in the long run???
My friend said that, in her opinion, there is NO way that OW would ultimately leave her husband - that she seems to sensible to do that???
More than any of this I know that whatever plans/hopes OW pins on WAP - at the end of the day WAP cannot be AVAILABLE to anyone - he is in the midst of the crisis and will tire of her before he runs to his next "passion" to fill his empty void.
I know how much D and I meant to him. So therefore if he could dispense with us this easily he can do the same to her - once the gloss wears off - possibly when it becomes public and the covert excitement is no longer there...
What do you all think??
Maybe I am just not wanting to think that what they have is "true love"......My view is that he has lied to so many people about the truth of her (including his best friend) - if it were THAT important why would it need to be so secretive????
B x
Well my husband has lied to everyone, incl. OW. And my H OW...did leave her husband of 26 years and Divorced him a year ago, only 9 months after the affair with H started.
At BD, when he said he thinks he is depressed and having a MLC, I said he was too old for one. But after doing research, sure enough, they have something called a Silver MLC. Obviously that applies to your sitch as well
From reading the FB messages last year, she was depressed. Sometimes writing "Something inside of me is broken, hard to explain".
And no, two unhappy people, that begin a relationship with lying and cheating will not make it. If it gives you any hope, I see evidence of this in H now. What was a great life last year, when OW had excess money, is a lot different now that he lives with her, in a country where he cannot speak the language and her excess money? No longer there. So for both of them, it is real life, with real problems...basically he walked into a sitch that he also left.
It took me awhile to agree with a lot of what I read here...but I see it in action now. I just have to wait it out but in the meantime get on with my life. My husband has become more distant and cold; the longer he stays with OW, the worse he gets. I am waiting for the big CZ Republic meltdown :D
SSG
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I'm having a little difficulty understanding some of your abbreviations. Whar is WAP? CZ?
We can't be absolutely sure that this sudden change in our H's or W's is due to MLC. But the depression is a very good explanation for the unbelievable changes. It's an urge to return to younger days. To be in love or infatuated. Life has become stale for them and they want to change everything, hoping it will bring the thrill for life again. The sense of feeling alive. Somehow they feel as if they are running out of time.
The reason I'm writing these things is because I went through it. My 1st ex is bipolar. I really didn't think anything was wrong when I left him. I felt justified for my actions. We had gone through some big changes. We lived in Italy, my 1st ex is American but he had a great job in Italy. A year or so before my MLC set in, I had some big disappointments. We had to move back to US, he was on Lithium and I lived in an area I didn't want to be in. I didn't realize how all those changes had impacted my psyche?
My current MLcer was once the alienator OM. I was taken by his attention and total devotion and admiration. I felt like a college student again. I rented an apt with the help of my 1st ex but he and my son (didn't divorce him for 2 years) were living only a few blocks away from me. My son was over 18yo at the time. After 3 or 4 years, I moved away leaving my ex and my son behind and in with my current MLcer. As routine set in with him my feelings of utter desperation, loneliness and depression set in. i didn't understand why I felt so empty. I felt joy for nothing yet I had a young husband that loved me and gave me everything I wanted. More than I could hope for. He did everything for me but nothing gave me joy. He always put me on a proverbial pedastal and I could do not wrong. I felt smothered by him in the beginning but as time went on I would push him away. I felt that deep inside I disliked myself. I didn't know what I wanted anymore, what I liked and I felt apathetic. Everything I did was a push. I struggled with depression for a long time. I went to see therapists but nothing helped. I felt a big void inside that nothing and no one could fill. I wrote a poem during that period called "The desert of my life" That poem, I feel, described the saga of the crisis of depression. Therapists don't really understand MLC. They actually seem to make things worse.
I've never acted as a monster but I acted as a rebel. I had previously cared about how people viewed me until then. I defied everyone and didn't care what anyone thought of me. I felt entitled to finally be happy and no one was going to stop me. I stayed connected with my 1st ex and we stayed friends but, only now after 16 years, I am truly understanding the pain that I've caused. I was on a run-away train and could not stop it. It's sad to understand this now. I wasted all those years not being happy, not enjoying the good things I had. :(
It's very difficult for me to share this on this forum because I'm not proud of having caused pain for important people in my life and as a LBS on this forum, I understand how it is to be in both positions. I'm not sure if this makes sense but knowing what my H is going through now, actually makes it harder for me, if that's possible.
Bellagio, I hope this helps and may answer some questions. MLC is not rare. More and more individuals are going through it. Our society encorages depression. We are loosing our community sense. TV has taken the place of meaningful conversations. We escape pain. Individual are not feeling connected to nature and others like they use to. There is a undercurrent of dissatisfaction that lead to questioning.....Fertile grounds for MLC/depression.
It's hard to be away from our partner whom we thought was going to be there for life. It feels like a big part of us gets ripped out and knowing that they are with someone else, is nearly unbearable. It's hard not to think of them, what they're doing, how they're thinking...what they are saying. We have lots of Whys that we can't really answer. It's difficult but life has a way of going on, even if we don't want it to sometimes. You have a beautiful D, I'm sure. Stay close to her and know that all you and your H once had was not just a dream. This is what they are going through and we have no control over it. One LBS once adviced me: One day at a time, sometimes an hour or a minute at a time if you have to. Others here have gotten through this and are still standing, you will too. (((BIG HUG))) SW
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Thanks for sharing that SW. You are very brave.
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I'm having a little difficulty understanding some of your abbreviations. Whar is WAP? CZ?
We can't be absolutely sure that this sudden change in our H's or W's is due to MLC. But the depression is a very good explanation for the unbelievable changes. It's an urge to return to younger days. To be in love or infatuated. Life has become stale for them and they want to change everything, hoping it will bring the thrill for life again. The sense of feeling alive. Somehow they feel as if they are running out of time.
My current MLcer was once the alienator OM. We fell in love. I was taken by his attention and total devotion and admiration. i didn't understand why I felt depressed. I felt joy for nothing yet I had a young husband that loved me and gave me everything I wanted. More than I could hope for. He did everything for me. Nothing gave me joy. I struggled with depression for a long time. I went to see therapists but nothing helped. It was like a big big void inside that nothing and no one could fill. wrote a poem during that period called "The desert of my life" In that poem,I feel, described the saga of the crisis of depression. Therapists don't really understand MLC. They actually seem to make things worse.
I've never acted as a monster but I acted as a rebel. I had previously cared about how people viewed me until MLC.I defied everyone and didn't care of what anyone thought of me. I felt entitled to finally be happy and no one was going to stop me. I was on a run away train and could not stop. It's sad to understand this now. I wasted all those years not being happy, not enjoying the good things I had.
It's very difficult for me to share this on this forum because I'm not proud of how I've hurt important people in my life. It seems like this was ages ago. Yet very much present in my mind. Knowing what my H is going through now, actually makes it harder for me, if that's possible.
Bellagio, I hope this helps you get some answers. MLC is not rare. More and more individuals go through this. Our society is encouraging depression. We are loosing our community sense. TV has taken the place of meaningful conversations. Individual are not feeling connected to nature and others like they use to. There is a undercurrent of dissatisfaction that lead to questioning.....Fertile ground for MLC.
It's hard to be away from our partner whom we thought was going to be there for life. Top with knowing hat he or she is with someone else, it's nearly unbearable. It's hard not to think of him, them, what they're doing, how they're thinking saying., why? It's difficult but life has a way of going on, even if we don't want it to sometimes. You have a beautiful D, I'm sure. Stay close to her and know that all you and your H once had was not just a dream. One day at a time maybe an hour or a minute at a time. Others here have gotten through this and we will too. (((BIG HUG))) SW
Wow Strongwind...it sounds like you described my H to a 't'. No kidding...I felt as if I was reading about him. He also never monstered...just rebelled and still doing so. When I told him once what his friends thought of what he was doing, he shrugged his shoulders and said it was his personal life and he didn't care. Remarked about an older friend of ours who died suddenly of cancer...then loudly stated "I have to find my way".
I have come to terms with a lot of what has happened. Only the longer he is under OW "aura" the more of a stranger he becomes. And CZ Republic is a country to the east of Germany. I also do not know what WAP is... :)
Did your young husband fight for you? Just curious for my own personal reasons.
SSG
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Hi Strongwind - am in the middle of getting D ready for school - will post in a minute or so..
WAP is Walk out Partner (we never married so I cant call him H)
Just to say initially - you are a brave and courageous woman.
Thank you for sharing with everyone...
More soon
x
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yes SSG my husband fought for me a lot. He was very insecure. Overly attentive to a point of smothering me. I felt it was too much at times. My ex was coming often to the house and my now current H would listen to our conversation from the front door without me knowing. (I had a back door and front door in my flat). He was constantly calling me and tried to occupy all my time. I have to say I was relieved sometimes when he left to go home. I never had him sleeping with me. I probably wouldn't have left my ex if he had not been in my life and so available. He lied and worked very hard to get to be with me. Only difference is that when he would make negative remarks about my ex, I would get angry with him. After he saw that I didn't encourage it, he kept doing it but in a more camouflaged way. He would paint a picture of my ex that reinforced all my reasons for leaving him.
I wonder if he sees a little of himself now in the OW??? I was the victim and he my knight in shining armor... saving me from a bad marriage. :-[ My marriage had not been a walk in the park either. My ex was drinking for a long time and self medicating. Changed careers every 6 months...I was on a roller-coaster with my ex. It really felt as if my now Mlcer seemed like my price for all the uncertainty and pain I had gone through with my ex. I hope this helps ....However, All the pain I had gone through with my 1st ex does not beat the pain I'm feeling with my current H's abandonment and betrayal. hugs SW
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Strongwind ,
Thanks so much, also SSG - thank you all for your posts.
I was very moved to hear your story Strongwind - it must have been so difficult for you. You also have a relatively unique insight into the depression/MLC thing so what you have to say here is very important. Thank you.
I did not sleep well last night - in turmoil - sweating, pain etc.
I got up this morning quite early and sat with my self and my pain. I realised that I cant carry it any longer. My suffering has been too great over the last few weeks. I then remembered "Broken Heart on Hold" and started to read it again.
It reminded me of Gods place in all of this.
It reminded me that I havent handed this over to God - and i think now is the time. I have reached the point where I cant do it any longer.
I have sat here quietly with myself and spoken out - asked God for his help. I have had a sense of calm which I havent felt in days.
I guess this is all part of letting go and letting God do His work.
I realise that is all I can do. Nothing I do or say will make a difference to WAP now. Our lives are separate. There is no obvious need for communication now or in the future.
I now want to use this time to be the best person i can be and be the best mother I can be.
If it is Gods will, for WAP to ever be in contact again, then i need to trust that it will happen. I have nothing left to do or give.
Would appreciate thoughts?
B x
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It reminded me of Gods place in all of this.
It reminded me that I haven't handed this over to God - and i think now is the time. I have reached the point where I cant do it any longer.
I have sat here quietly with myself and spoken out - asked God for his help. I have had a sense of calm which I havent felt in days.
I guess this is all part of letting go and letting God do His work.
It's the only thing that helps me Bellaggio. Giving it the God, helps me feel empowered in an odd way. I feel that it's no longer in my hands but His. He needs to see me through this struggle. God says that he will never leave us nor forsake us and when I forget that and start taking control of the situation, I fall on my face. It's challenging. There are days in which I don't feel Him near me. A Christian friend often tells me. "Fall in love with God again"
My favorite verse when I feel confused and discouraged is: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him ...and He shall direct your path. I make an effort to give all my cares to him and talk to Him often as if he is my friend. I'm not always successful but, when I do,...I feel a peace that surpasses all understanding. Have a sweet sleep tonight. (((hug))) :-*
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I dont think I have truly handed it over to God until now. I have understood what it means to do it but I havent been able to - maybe as you say because we think we know better and can control things.
I now know I just cant.
Strongwind I am so worn out - mentally, emotionally etc. So many tears, pain etc.
this is not unique of course - everyone here is going through similar feelings (or have done along their journey)....
At this stage i want some peace - there have been moments where I have felt close to God and i have felt a sense of calm and trust - it has made me stronger. I know what you mean.
And yes, sometimes I dont feel he is there. I feel alone trying to make sense of WAP and what has happened. That is when the pain of his MLC/OW etc rears its ugly head and I become overwhelmed.
Thank you for the scripture - I have some in my bookcase and i will read them a bit later.
I just cant carry the pain alone any more.
Thanks for listening
x
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The book Broken Heart on Hold is such a comfort.....it really brings you back into the space of trusting God and the bigger/picture and process.
It does give hope to the pained and wounded.....
Rook mentions a number of success stories and, likewise reading through success stories here on the site it does give a sense of possibility.
For the people here who are standing - how do you get through the times when it is most dark, where there is No contact when the WAh/P/W is ADAMANT that it is done, over, finished. When another person is involved?
Is this the meaning of letting go and letting God? So that he can quietly work behind the scenes on then WAH/W/P and the LBS?
x
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Just chiming in too, SW, to commend you on your bravery for telling your story! You've processed a LOT. {{{hugs}}}
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Bellagio, I'm not very good at answering your questions on the standing part. I'm confused as how to stand too. I once got a post from a LBS saying that real meaning of STANDING is really standing for ourselves more than standing for our spouse. Standing for ourselves? I thought. However it's true. If we don't learn to stand on our own and become the person we really are, we cannot stand for our spouse.
God is merciful and gracious and loves us. He knows all things but he does give everyone free will. I wish he didn't in this case ;) but He does. Let your WAP go through his own journey as you go through yours. Mirror work is for us LBS. I'm not there yet. I've just began to look at me and to get a sense of what I'm really about. I think a lot of us here lose a part of ourselves and God is trying to nudge to find that part and love ourselves for who we are. He loves us and he says in this Word, which he set high above his name, that we can only love another to the measure in which we love ourselves. Love your neighbor as your self. Husband love your wives as you love yourselves.
Ephesians 5
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”c 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband
Our MLCer does not love himself right now and therefore cannot love us. He needs to go through his journey of confusion, fog, denial and find his way to his heart. Pray for him. I know it's difficult to pray for them but that allows God to do his work in him. Sorry I don't have many answers for this. I can only expand on my understanding of this issue. Much love (((hugs))) SW
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Awesome post SW!!! Thank you for sharing!
For the people here who are standing - how do you get through the times when it is most dark, where there is No contact when the WAh/P/W is ADAMANT that it is done, over, finished. When another person is involved?
Is this the meaning of letting go and letting God? So that he can quietly work behind the scenes on then WAH/W/P and the LBS?
You gotta keep busy...surround yourself with good friends...exercise...try new things etc. I only seem to get sad is when I am alone! And yes, accepting that there is nothing you can do for your H and letting God take care of him and concentrating on you is letting go!!!
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You gotta keep busy...surround yourself with good friends...exercise...try new things etc. I only seem to get sad is when I am alone! And yes, accepting that there is nothing you can do for your H and letting God take care of him and concentrating on you is letting go!!!
Courageous Wife has good advice here. I know how hard it is to follow though. When this tragedy hits, we want to crawl under a rock and pretend it's not happening. I had to reach out because I felt so lonely and desperate. I was so scared and shocked. Trying new things it's still hard for me. I'm very unmotivated as I use to do everything with him. I realize after a year that we don't easily step out of our comfort zone. Having God take care of him is the only way to go because you cannot do it. All you have control over now is yourself. I know it's so hard but you can do this Bellagio. One day at a time....you'll make it through this, stay connected to others who can understand and who have gone through this before you. You and your D is what matters most now. (((BIG HUG))) SW
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The book Broken Heart on Hold is such a comfort.....it really brings you back into the space of trusting God and the bigger/picture and process.
It does give hope to the pained and wounded.....
Rook mentions a number of success stories and, likewise reading through success stories here on the site it does give a sense of possibility.
For the people here who are standing - how do you get through the times when it is most dark, where there is No contact when the WAh/P/W is ADAMANT that it is done, over, finished. When another person is involved?
Hi Bellagio
I LOVE that book, Broken Heart On Hold. It is the one I turn to when I wake in the night (something I do less now than in the early days - sleep WILL return, I promise you). Yes, she talks of what is possible, but she also gets the pain, and knows how we feel.
The way I got through was the books and articles to be honest. Understanding. The more I understood mlc, the more I really took on board that it was NOT about me. I was OK. My H was very damaged. This was bound to happen, whoever he had married. Understanding = power. You will find the books that most help you. Look at the book list here. But I recommend the work of Jed Diamond, Terrence Real, Alice Miller. And, actually, right now - because it's short and you can get it as an ebook quite cheaply, try Bob Steinkamp's book about 'The Prodigal'. I can't remember the exact title now but you'll know it when you find it. It's very Christian - very much so, in a very strong way. But even if that doesn't talk to you, what he's saying about how the mlc is feeling will help you, I think. Another one to get: "I Do, Again". It is about a woman who is WAW, and regrets it and returns.
Whilst we are all advised that we cannot guarantee a return, the chances of a return seem to me quite high IF you can settle your mind - over time, not in a week! - and become the 'safe place' that they need to return to. They are lost, rudderless, and actually we have to be strong - we have to gain the conviction of knowing what we're talking about when they return - with love, patience, firmness but kindness.
How do we keep going? The knowledge of what we had, as RCR told me, is what keeps us going. If there was that deep-seated bond, then it's very hard to forget or replace. So, we leave the door open. But eventually, as we heal, we also just, well, get on with things while we are 'waiting' . . .
Trust the process. MLC takes TIME. These are mantras. Pin some up close to your bed so you see them in the morning or in middle of night when you wake in a panic. This helped me.
Your H loves you - if he didn't, he wouldn't be lashing out at you. Gradually, as you read, you will realise the truth of this.
Love and hugs. You'll come through.
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Hi Bellaggio,
UKS has some great advice...The LBS here have so much insight and wisdom. I guess that is why this site is called the Hero's Spouse ;)
try Bob Steinkamp's book about 'The Prodigal'. I can't remember the exact title now but you'll know it when you find it. It's very Christian - very much so, in a very strong way.
I think it's called the Prodigal's Pen by Bob Steinkamp. Go to Charlyne Cares or Rejoice Ministries. I have not read it but I'm going to start reading some of these books. My issue is that I'm quite a bit older than my H and if I wait to long I may end up alone for the rest of my life. He is the only man I'd like to be with but he is off with a younger woman and this makes it even harder for me. :-\
I never thought that I would be spending so much effort and time researching about what my H is going through and doing. I few years ago my head and thoughts were in my text books, exams and school. Sometimes I wonder if I had been more present for my H if MLC would reared its ugly head? From what I understand MLC would have happened no matter what I did. That should help us understand that we didn't cause it and we can't stop it. I can honestly say that coming to this forum help me get through so much. Reading, understanding and praying are the things that help me make this unbearable time somewhat bearable. I listen to Christian rock music and started going to Church when I don't have to work. I need support, community and most of all I need God in my life....I know I can't do this alone.
I think of you Bellaggio during my day. I know how difficult it is right now. With time it's not going to feel quite the same way. Sometimes it still feels it's all just too much to take...but God says in His Word that he will never allow us to be tempted above what we can handle. I couldn't even watch TV at the beginning or listen to music....This too shall pass. Rest in God's loving arms. He will care for you and be your helper. (((hugs))) :-* SW
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Thank you so much everyone. I am away with D as I performed in a concert last night - the one that WAP and I were supposed to be found together - the organiser found another singer. It is literally 10 mins from WAPs sisters house and twenty minutes from where I know ow lives/ lived with her husband.
I played well last night but am in pain.
I keep being reminded of his words at bd -
I want 2014 to be a year of rejuvenation and new beginnings and that means that some doors must close.
I also am pretty sure that WAP is with ow this weekend at a yoga retreat.
I am reading from the bible and trying to pass this over to god.
I am trying to trust in the bigger picture - I need to turn more to god.
I am messaging from my phone but will write more when I get home. I truly of not know what I would go without this site and all of this support at the moment.
The situation feels bleak
Xx
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I had a friend have a chat with me over the last few days / they do not think WAP is MLC as we have been together for 3 years and he is in an affair/ relationship - I think they believe it's more pd.
I know I have thought about this but I still sure that this is MLC.
The change in him is extreme / he fits almost every part of the script .
The affair is the hardest part in some ways / he is doing that too .
It's been lovely seeing friends this weekend but to be honest I just want to be home and spending time with d and by myself.
I am trying to take things one moment at a time.
UKS - have been thinking about your remarks re WAP still loving me. I just don't see it. He has told me he doesn't have any feelings for me and he is completely silent / no contact - he emailed me twice a week ago lashing out but that was in relation to me moving my things out.
Now there is silence so he isn't taking anything out on me.....
I do know though that he loved me very much. Before this crisis.
Thanks everyone
X
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He's more interested in being adored more than anything-if she wasn't into yoga? He probably wouldn't be..unless he was before this.
If she was into rock climbing he's be doing that. She the lead dog in this. He's trying to find himself by following HER.
Remember Yoko Ono and how much people hated her? Well this is about the same thing-he needs to be adored and lead and paid attention to every single second.
You'll find someone else.. first question out of your mouth should be "are you a frustrated musician"? It will explain a lot about their personality.
Again what's going on between them isn't the issue. Focus on you and your D. :)
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Bellagio,
the affair is certainly the hardest part of MLC for the spouse or partner. It's important for all of us to let them go to figure all this out for themselves. They will need to understand that the grass isn't greener on the other side and sooner or later come to terms with their inner struggles. What is he doing now, like In it said, getting adoration and praise and feeling accepted is part of the process in replay. They just need to go through this as part of their crisis. However this plays out for you will ultimately be in God's hands. I'm glad you are wanting to have a good year and detach. You seem very smart and you are on the right track. Keep concentrating on you. My H is doing the same thing. He does not contact me unless there is a practical issue to take care of. It hurts because of the love they once felt for us doesn't seem apparent to us anymore. The truth is they have fallen out of love with themselves and we are only collateral damage. Stay strong and learn to fall back in love with you.
I like this little prayer that I learned in Al anon years ago.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. Courage to change the things I can. ...and wisdom to know the difference.
(((Big Hug))) SW
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Hi everyone,
Thanks very much for your posts - I appreciate your advice and support - as always.....
Yes Strongwind - the affair, at this early stage after BD - is one of the hardest things to cope with....that and the feeling of being deleted.
The more I educate myself here on this site and the more books I read the more I realise the process - so yes, reading is crucial for my well being and sense of stability at the moment.
I feel a bit better now that i ma home in our apartment - I found the weekend hard being so close to places that i know so well connected to WAP.
As each day goes by I am finding that I am having to accept the process of letting go.
I have no choice in that my D and I have to continue with our life. We have things to be happy about and to be proud of.
I think its the shock of the extreme change. I spoke to/was in contact with WAP every day of our time together. It has now been nearly 6 weeks since BD and over a week since any email contact (and that email contact was business like and perfunctory by him).
IUnlike a lot of people here now that I moved my things out of his house there is no particular contact/connection.
I sometimes wonder whether I moved my things too quickly???? My underlying sense is no - I didnt. Reading RCR's threads about OW etc she does advise to not accept particular modes of contact under those circumstances - I couldnt continue to have our things in his house when he is in full blown PA with her. He has also told me its over etc.
However I moved very quickly (everything out in 4 days) and I think, at first at least, that surprised him.
Now - SILENCE........No contact.......No spewing - no monster etc
Do any of you have the experience of WAH/W/P going completely silent so soon after BD....
I am starting to suspect that this may be an extreme case of MLC - there seems no interest in him knowing ANYTHING about our lives, where or how we are.
I am slowly trying to detach and to live as if he may never return. I am sure at the moment he is not the right person for either of us to be around.
It is in Gods hands now but the patience required is HUGE.......and the level of emotional discipline on the part of the LBS not to be affected by the affair/alienator.
Trying so hard to be strong :(
Thank you
x
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Hi
My H has very little contact with me . After he left the only contact seemed to be telling me to get a counsellor and sorting out bills and such . All very impersonal and cold .
We did have some conversations initiated by me (before I found this site) he either cried a lot of was mean and we had a major touch and go in the summer , but then he pulled back again and we are back to him not being able to deal with me .
On the plus side the NC does enable you to heal , I got to the stage where he was so hurtful that I dreaded him contacting me , his Mother feels the same .
I got myself a cousellor and I focused on me , tahts not to say that I pushed him out of my mind . I just felt that I had to save myself , I could not go on feeling like I did . It takes time and we all do it at own pace and we all have different ways of doing it .
Take care
Callan
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Thanks so much for your support Callan -
its helpful to know that I am not the only one whose WAH/P makes no contact.
I have to remind myself that when there is OW involved it gives them more reason to stay away and be convinced that we are to blame.
I also understand that NC does help you to heal. the pain is great today but i am trying to distract myself.
I need to read as much as I can and tidy the apartment. I am going to try to make an appointment to meet with my parish priest later today....
The sun is shining today - its a beautiful morning - all I can do is think about him with HER.
I have to remind myself that OW is part of their journey - the more they are left alone to live it with her the sooner they will move through the tunnel.
Most of the time I dont FEEL as if i want contact with him - only some points throughout the day that I feel like I want to speak to him and just ask "why".
We havent spoken since Xmas day 2013 - so there has been no verbal discussion about what he has done, why he has done it (or why he thinks he has) and what/where D and I are now.
So there feels like a missing piece in all of this compared to a lot of other posters here who are in more contact with WAH/W/P - even if there is monster.
Its harder when there is no contact to even tell whether you are passing through their thoughts - even momentarily...
x
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If you spent any length of time with them? They still may think of you.
The "why's" will drive you crazy also.
Although I may not like being in the situation and it wasn't my choice. I'm not interested in the disrespect I've been shown due to HIS ISSUES.
OW are a band aid for their EGOS. They have the emotional depth of a mud puddle. BOTH of them.
You've been wounded and need to HEAL. Eventually you may see NC as a blessing.
That you noted the sun shining an a beautiful day is a really good start!
Just start trying to omit the last part of the observation.
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Thanks so much Init - yes you are right - I have been so very very deeply wounded ( as we all have)....it is always harder when the BD comes out of the blue - ie no precipitating argument etc....
Thanks also for reminding me about the role of OW in this - I need some cold hard reality sometimes to bring me back into focus...
I have had an interesting day - I had to go to the storage centre where a lot of my belongings are being stored as I dont have enough place in my apartment now...
I had to go there as I have donated one of my sofas to a local charity and they were collecting it.....so I had to sort through boxes to get it out of storage.
I was very upset when I got there - a lot of the boxes reminded me of a week or so ago when I was packing all my things at WAPs house.
Then - as I said a small prayer asking for calm and reassurance - I noticed in one of the plastic containers a bag with all of my daughters communion gear in it from a couple of years ago. There was her bible and our rosaries etc. There were also prayer books and a copy of The Prodigal Spouse - I dont even remember when I got it - but it was there amidst all of the packages etc.......
It made me think - maybe God IS working behind the scenes? Just when I thought I was so tired etc - there was a sign.....
I dont know - I just thought at the time that it was telling...
I have done everything I needed to do today - chores etc - trying to tidy up the apartment etc.
My heart is aching though - I feel lost but I am sure I am getting stronger every day - I am trying to anyway...
thank you for your help everyone - and for the support
x
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Triggers are TOUGH I just had a BIG one a couple of days ago It will take me a while to get passed it cry, heal, and get strong again.
I see signs also- they can be so comforting when times get tough. Let yourself cry..
((Hugs)))
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Hey b88,
When my H left in 2009, I would have given anything for contact from him!!! We only spoke if it had to do with kids or something about the house! This time, he wants to be friends and help out etc. I can honestly say I do better with no contact! Have been trying to have plans and be gone when I know he is coming to the house. He told D he thinks I am trying to avoid him! Well, ya...I am! Kinda in the anger stage right now that he has done this AGAIN so until I can get a handle on that, I need to not see him! :)
God is always working behind the scenes!!! Take care!
CW
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I've been following along for a while and thought I'd chime in. :)
I am 2 years post BD and I've learned a lot in these two years which is a huge understatement. I've learned about myself and my strength and my character and I know who I am and what I believe in and what I want for my life and for my D4's life. I KNOW I still love my W. She's lost right now and I have learned to let her go.
Having said that, this whole process is not cut and dry. It's not simple. It's not one size fits all. You have to find your own way through this crisis. And your path will look different from everyone else's path. when you're reading on the forum you will find some similarities here and there in other people's stories but your is unique to you. So sometimes you will feel very alone.. and that's okay because it will pass. Everything passes.
Just let yourself feel... knowing that the pain you're feeling in this moment will end. It all seems so overwhelming when you look at the entire thing at once. OMG she's gone and I'm a single parent and I'm taking care of the house and the dogs and I've gone back to work full time and OMG she's gone. You will be flooded with emotions and panic and every other fear based feeling. you have to try your best to just be in that moment with those yucky feelings and feel them fully and then let them pass.
That's when you discover that every time that happens... every time you feel so broken inside that you can't even breath... it somehow passes and you are a little bit stronger than you were before that moment. It happens just like that over and over and the yucky times get shorter and shorter and they happen less often and there are longer times between them and each time you recover faster from the pain.
It's still going to happen. just when you think there could not be one more thing that could bring you to your knees something happens and triggers you and you buckle. But it's happened so much that you know even when you're in the middle of the pain that it won't last long and you'll be better for it on the other side. It was a strange realization when I started having that "knowing" even while I was in such a painful place. but I knew that it would pass and when that moment was over I would have new life in me.
Just like all the people here I've found strength I never in a million years thought I had. I like myself again. I love myself. I'm proud of myself. I know who I am and why I'm standing. I know my W is not herself and will wake from this dark place she's in. I would say those words in the beginning but now I know them to be true in my core.
It just takes time. Each cycle you go through is one step closer to a stronger more confident you. Each one gets you a little more detached each time. And you're going to think you've finally made it to complete detachment and then something else will happen and it will make you feel like you haven't detached at all. It's not called a roller coaster ride for nothing. :)
My point in all this is to help you understand that you're going to doubt yourself over and over. But when you do you need to give yourself a break and know that you are getting stronger. There's no set pace or right speed. And just because you know you should be doing something doesn't mean you're at a stage where you can yet. Just be with yourself through all the pain and all the joy and you'll wake up one day and feel so strong and you'll be amazed at how you came so far.
The trick is all the little moments. Moment by moment.
It's very hard to do but don't worry about what other people think. They will not understand what's truly going on. they will not have read what you've read. They are not living what you're living. Most people don't get it. Most people advise you to "move on" because they don't know any better. And they just want you to stop hurting and our society notoriously thinks that's the fastest way to do that is to go be with someone else or to get revenge or all kinds of other crazy things. Most of them don't mean any harm they just don't know what you know. So, be careful who you confide in.
Ask your angels for help. even if all you can get out in the moment is "help me" just say it. And miraculously a wave of peace will wash over you or a thought will come into your head from out of nowhere that will give you an ounce of relief. and in that moment that's all you need... a glimmer of hope.
I am taking care of myself and moving on with my life in all areas that don't involve a romantic relationship. As far as I'm concerned I'm still married. but I had a lot of my own work to do. Inside myself and outside myself. My career, my finances, my dreams. they all needed attention. and right now I can give them attention that I wouldn't have had if my W weren't out of the house.
I'm still going to therapy even though I don't really HAVE to be going. I just love it so much. It's like it helps me grow and learn at an exponential rate. It's the same path I would have been on anyway but now it's faster travel. :)
Okay, I'm done ranting. I just want you to know that there's no right or wrong way. there are things you can do to make things harder or easier but there's no right or wrong. Just find your path and your rhythm, live through each moment as it comes knowing it will pass, and before you know it you'll be two years out from BD and you'll be stronger and wiser and amazed at yourself.
{{Hugs}}
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Good post ShineOn. You make a lot of sense.
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Just wanted to post here as I had quite a bad nights sleep and have been up for a while......
For some reason I have doubts as to whether I am barking up the wrong tree here.....
For weeks and weeks I have been convinced that what i am dealing with here is MLC/Depression. I know that many of you have read my sitch and have seen signs of MLC.
However - what happens if the reality is that WAP is not in any crisis - but is purely a BADV SEED/ a serial cheater/ a user of women etc.
The reality of the issue of porn., this history with women, his fathers history with women and how that may play into his experience, his deceit etc etc. Is this purely MLC behaviour.
If it isnt MLC - and it is something more - how can I live with myself knowing that I have exposed a person like this to myself and, most importantly, my D.
God - this is not good.
Have I been fooling myself thinking that it is MLC?
I would really appreciate some feedback - particularly from all of you who have been following my thread. I am now worried that I have been FULLy deluding myself..
feeling very upset - :( :( - what happens if I have got this ALL WRONG
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Have you read anything about narcissistic abuse or narcissistic personality disorder? This fit my situation to a T.
They are UNABLE to feel compassion or empathy for other people and look at other people as feed for their egos.
The realization that that's what I dealt with was shocking to say the least. I did it for 32 years.
The good news is you can heal from this. But to do it right? It takes TIME. And a lot of hard work on YOURSELF.
Once it's identified you know what you are dealing with.
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The reality of the issue of porn., this history with women, his fathers history with women and how that may play into his experience, his deceit etc etc. Is this purely MLC behaviour.
If it isn't MLC - and it is something more - how can I live with myself knowing that I have exposed a person like this to myself and, most importantly, my D.
It depends on your history when you were together. It's hard to go through this and not have doubts. Is it MLC? Is he a serial cheater..a narcissist? Is he just like his dad? How can the decent man I knew act this way now? He must have always been this way?
MLC doesn't make sense. We can't reconcile who we knew and the person that we see while in MLC. If he wasn't in MLC what would happen? The same as if he is in MLC. Acceptance, that whatever the reason for him acting this way, we must go on and deal with this new challenge life has handed us. None of us really want to be here. We all have felt this way.
I was reading all I could my hands on about narcissism and found a lot of similarity to my H but it didn't matter because I could not make sense of the difference between the man I knew, kind, loving, devoted and sweet, to the man I see now, He acts as a narcissist, hurtful uncaring cruel, no remorse for how he hurts me. How can this be??? This is MLC.
I still have doubts at times and sometimes it's easier to think he has always been a jerk and a cheater. The shock of discovering this new creature in my H who I can't make out defies my better judgment. Either he is crazy or I am. I choose to believe that he is...
These are all steps you must go through. It's tough. Try to stay close to God, develop your relationship with God and put the rest in His hands. ShineOn's post was right on. This crisis can make us better men or women. We just need to take it a moment at a time. You're not alone Bellagio. (((hugs))) SW
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Thank you both - yes - I have spoken with my counsellor this morning and teased out these ideas further with him which was very useful I must say.
I am trying to sit quietly with myself and God and find some calm amidst the turbulence - no matter what caused this.
Feel very subdued and a bit in shock that I haven't fully ingested what the alternatives COULD be here.
I know that I have broached the subject of PD here before - I guess I swung towards MLC at that point. Perhaps, as you say Strongwind - there are overlaps.
I suspect that in my case - with WAPS history before he met me - that there are very deep seated issues which need to be teased out.
Our history together - well - I am clear about what I THOUGHT it meant and was. It is very destabilising to think that what you thought was reality may have been a big fat lie and a hoax...
I think that is what i am struggling with today....
x
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It is hard to ignore the fact that they COULD be, quite simply, a jerk and a cheater Strongwind.
My counsellor said something to me today - "Why are you searching for understanding and answers when it could, quite simply, be a case of that he has treated you and your D APPALLINGLY and he is an a**h**e"
That sure got my attention
Trying to stay centred within all of this
x
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EXACTLY- if the COUNSLER made this observation I'd tend to agree with him. He's an @$$hole so NOW focus on you and your D! Be HAPPY you are free of him.
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;)
thanks Init...
x
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NOW you need to do the work on yourself and make SURE you never attract another one of those OK? Screw trying to figure out what's wrong with HIM.
What attracts these types of people to you OR why are you attracted to them?
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Yes init - I ma trying to make sense of this - its hard and a slow process (I am sure you are all worn out by now!)
I am not sure what has attracted me to them (vice versa). I haven't thought about it that way.
All I know is that the pain I have gone through over the last 6 weeks I will NEVER EVER go through again.
This has been more painful than my divorce and that is really saying something.
I wonder whether you come to a point - MLC/ PD or not - and you just think regardless of the behaviour and what is behind it I cant accept it. For my well being (and your children's) I cannot find ANYTHING to recommend this.
Maybe I am hitting this stage....
The way he has treated us is literally barbaric on a human level - I need to respect my D and I more and look at it for what it is..
Maybe I am starting to get angry?
x
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Oh I know how barbaric it is- I was kicked out of the house with no place to go-that's traumatic enough.. NO ONE will ever hurt me like this again either.
Sub human treatment is more like it.
If you're at the anger stage?you'll get through this with flying colors took me a long time to get to that stage for some reason. I guess I was too understanding and compassionate of the problem for too long. Everyone just thought I'd take more disrespect.
Yep- get angry BUT look to you and figure out how you got you (and your D) into this and don't do it again!
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Yep- get angry BUT look to you and figure out how you got you (and your D) into this and don't do it again!
We all know first hand how painful this is and yes anger is a stage we all go through. However, the only way to really get through this is by forgiving our partners. We don't condone it but forgive. It took me a while to understand this concept and still have difficulty with this.
I'm wondering? How does one not let this happen again? If one is living with a spouse or partner who is supportive, kind and caring for the most part and then he just goes nuts and is mentally abusive, breaks our heart by cheating and acts as someone we don't recognize. How is that our doing? How do you make sure you don't let that happen again? Do you stop trusting? Do you assume that everybody could do the same?
we can't control how another decides and behaves. I'm sure you wouldn't have been with your partner had he been like this from the very beginning or throughout your relationship?...Maybe I'm wrong but I know that when I married my H I didn't see many red flags for many years. Our communication skills sucked but other than that I didn't see traces of what he has now become. If you read RCA's articles you could see that this is script for MLCer.
That said, it doesn't mean you don't protect yourself and you don't have boundaries. NC is mostly for you because it allows you to heal without the added stress of having to deal with their destructive behavior. I'm still working on forgiving my H for what he did. Do I feel angry? Yes... but I know that the anger and bitterness only hurts me. All I can do is pray and give it to God . Ask him to help me forgive and heal.
I'll end this with my favorite scripture
Isaiah 26:3
3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
(He, God, will keep you, Bellaggio,in perfect peace because your mind his holding on to Him and His Word: because you trust in Him).
Take care of your and D's heart and needs. Let God take care of the rest. (((hugs))) SW :-*
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Our communication skills sucked
There's the first clue. Nobody is a mind reader.
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Init, bad communication is an epidemic these day, especially in a couple's life or there would not be so many couple therapists and so many books written on the subject.
The fact that MLcer don't want to make an effort in communicating more effectively is due to their childhood issues whom they have not yet resolved. I don't see this as a clue to mean that these individuals are bastards and that we have somehow attracted. I see this as human frailty and immaturity rather than aa a type of human being who we attract or are attracted to. SW
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Thank you both - I really do appreciate your words.
I want to respond fully to what you have both said but first - I thought I would look at a few positives that I have done for myself (and D) today/
- I finally completed the moving of all the important items that we have into the storage centre. It is now a load off my mind that that is done. Even though it was hard seeing all of our gear loaded up into a tiny space I am reminded of just how much I have successfully dealt with in the last six weeks....)
- I bought some nice shower gel and a had a long shower and painted my nails
- I bought some healthy veg and am going to make a stir fry for us tonight
- I went to Mass today ( the first time in this city for 2 and a half years) - I introduced myself to the parish priest and I have registered D and I now in the parish. I have also made an appointment to speak with him in confidence early next week...
Interestingly the homily today referred to the parable re "no external force can make a person "unclean". A persons "uncleanliness" (Adultery, fornication, theft, deceit etc etc etc) comes from within that person.No matter what spin they put on it.
I was sitting quietly in prayer after Mass thinking about this.
This is a lesson we could all learn from when WAS our blaming us for their depression (n my case) etc etc etc
I know not everyone is religious here but I am learning to lean on God more and more every day.
I don't know how I am going to do it but I have a growing sense that I just want to be the best person I can be - for both myself and my D.
Thank you for caring - its not easy every minute of the day (this morning I was crying) but I am trying to move ahead..
More in a minute
x
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Interestingly the homily today referred to the parable re "no external force can make a person "unclean". A persons "uncleanliness" (Adultery, fornication, theft, deceit etc etc etc) comes from within that person.No matter what spin they put on it.
if you can, please read Ephesian 6
it will put a new spin on this crisis. I'm so glad you're caring for you and D. You're doing really well. This is a trauma and it's very difficult. Stand for you and D now and allow God's love to wash over you. He knows what is going on better than we do. Making an appt with the parish priest. You need men and women of God to support you in this spiritual battle. (((hugs))) SW
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Thanks Strongwind -
I have been particularly moved by what you have been writing re "attracting" certain types etc
"The fact that MLcer don't want to make an effort in communicating more effectively is due to their childhood issues whom they have not yet resolved. I don't see this as a clue to mean that these individuals are bastards and that we have somehow attracted. I see this as human frailty and immaturity rather than as a type of human being who we attract or are attracted to."
As some of you may know I first came to this site when I separated from my H in January 2009. That was a long time ago. At first i was wanting to stand and tried very hard to do so but his behaviour was so pout of the boundaries of acceptable that i had to let that go and insist of a divorce. He was abusive and I fought for years through the courts to protect D and myself.
It was an unforgettable time.
I have had sole custody of D since 2011.
So, in a sense, I have been round this block before. my ex-H and WAOP are very different personalities. That said I know a lot of people who can remember my initial postings may draw similarities in that I am back here again trying to work this all out - just with a different set of circumstances.
That said I was alone for three years after I separated from ex-H. I was deliberately so - at first because I was standing and the, after about a year and horrific verbal, financial , emotional (and some) physical abuse I had had enough. I was then alone for another 2 years before I met WAP.
So, like I have said, I really thought I was in a frame of mind to take an objective view point on getting into another relationship. I worked hard on myself during that time I was alone - I addressed a lot of issues - worked through the break down of my marriage - really thought hard about what I wanted in a partner - what I wanted for myself and D in the future.
When I met WAP I was very wary and hesitant - not because of him but because of the fact that I had taken my work on myself seriously . It took months and months before I decided that I was willing to risk this - for my D and myself.
So - in this sense - I feel this loss even more keenly than before....
I guess I am saying this because - in a way - I agree that sometimes we just CANT see this coming..
x
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B: I can completely understand what you said about being willing to risk yourself again with WAP. I divorced my first husband and was alone for 7 years before Mr. CT and I reconnected; he had only been divorced for a year when he moved out here to be with me. I took those 7 years to really work on me, raise my girls, and I took the time to discover what I wanted in a relationship and what I wanted from a man in the context of an exclusive relationship. When Mr. CT and I reconnected, we talked a lot about what had happened in our first marriages and what we wanted from a new relationship and what we would be willing to put forth in that new relationship. I was very cautious about it all. We spent a lot of time getting to know one another. When Mr. CT asked me to marry him, I knew it was right. I gave myself and my heart to Mr. CT, asking nothing more from him that I wouldn't be willing to give him myself. He promised that he would never hurt me like my first husband did. And I promised him that I would never hurt him like his first wife did. And I have kept my promise, to this very day. However, he hasn't. I willingly gave all of me to him with the promise that we would be there for each other no matter what, we would make this marriage our top priority, we would be honest and open with each other, and that we would weather everything together. I let the scars from my first marriage fade away, and then Mr. CT has cut those scars open again, only this time they are deeper and wider than I could ever imagine. So, I honestly know exactly how you feel.
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Thanks Crazy Train -
My gosh - I have just read your post and it could have been my thoughts emerging off the page.
I cannot BELIEVE how what you have said echoes my life, my feelings, my heart, my trust..
Like yourself WAP and I had both been married and divorced. All I asked from him was his understanding and his fidelity. I have posted here before about my aversion to infidelity - I have a real problem with it. I said to him that if he did nothing else please, please, do not cheat on me (my ex-H did - with his secretary).....
WAP was fully aware of what both D and I had gone through when we met him. We had long discussion about what we both wanted, like yourself.
Over the last number of years I have trusted him - I have wanted to trust him for my own sanity...
That is why his gradual withdrawal and detachment before BD and OW exposure was so painful and confusing for me.
I know it may not make a load of sense but the pain, this time around, is so mire deep and profound. It is because we have gone through so much already - our WAS's know this - and they have somehow met us full circle....
It is so hard :(
x
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Yes, it is extremely hard. This whole situation has been the worst thing I have ever gone through. I don't wish this on my worst enemy. However, I am thankful that Mr. CT and I still do talk to one another, and that I know he does love me, that he doesn't blame me anymore, that he recognizes that it has to do with him, and that Voldemort is out of the picture. He wants us to be friends, and he has said "because you never know what might happen." :o He is lost in his confusion right now. The lure of the single life has taken root, and that is very appealing to him. I just need to remember how happy we were, and that one day he will remember that. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
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Crazy train - I am very happy that you are seeing slow and steady progress - there so a small chink of light for you through the tunnel.
I, on the other hand, an only six weeks post BD - we are in NC and he is with OW (although it has not been made official that I have heard).
He has completely shut D and I out and is living his "new life" of "rejuvenation"....
So - the fact that we are in NC (and, because we do not share care of children/property/joint finances etc) - there is no real need for him to contact me...
I feel I will never hear from him again.....
I know many people are doubtful that my WAP is in MLC - this is due to his past etc......
I am so confused WHAT to believe at this stage
:(
What stage are you in all of this - how long has it been for you since BD?
x
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Mr. CT first told me ILYBINILWY in September 2012, and then I found out about Voldemort in May 2013. When I found out about Voldemort, I talked to him the same day and he left that night. He hasn't been back since. So it has been 17 months since BD and 9 months since he left. :(
My SIL confirmed to me that Voldemort is out of the picture, I didn't even have to ask, so I am thankful for that. She also told me that he really enjoyed having dinner with me on Saturday, that it was nice and it was familiar to him. What the hell does "familiar" mean???
We have 4 kids between us, but none together. The only thing left between us is the house and the car. His name is still on both of the loans. And the memories that we made...that is all we have together. I can afford the house and the car on my own, so there really is nothing for us to communicate about anymore. My SIL doesn't believe he is in MLC, that he just wanted out. I think he is totally in the middle of MLC. He is still in Replay, though his mistress now is the shop where he does all his projects. If I ever need to find him, that is where he will be. Guaranteed.
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So, in a sense, I have been round this block before. my ex-H and WAOP are very different personalities. That said I know a lot of people who can remember my initial postings may draw similarities in that I am back here again trying to work this all out - just with a different set of circumstances.
This is my second marriage too Bellaggio. I thought that he was the complete opposite of my ex but I was wrong. For the most part he was but there were certain traits that were also similar. I didn't want to see them. The inability for real compassionate about my feelings. They both didn't deal with emotions well. They both did so much for me and kept on doing...when all I really wanted was to be loved and understood. My H did so much for me that it was nearly disabling. I became emotionally as well as financially dependent on him. I didn't allow my first H to make me so dependent on him because I knew I couldn't trust him. My second H on the other hand (the now MLCer) I trusted completely. I thought he was never going to hurt me...I would have walked on hot coal....I was that sure. I didn't see any sign that would indicate that he would ever do this to me. Either he was a good actor or I'm blind. Either way, it's irrelevant now. Sometimes what we resist, persists. Never felt pain this deep and I pray I never will again. hug SW
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I didn't allow my first H to make me so dependent on him because I knew I couldn't trust him completely. My second H on the other (the now MLCer) I trusted completely. I thought he was never going to hurt me...I would have walked on hot coal....I was that sure. I didn't see any sign that would indicate that he would ever do this to me.......Never felt pain this deep and I pray I never will again. SW
SW: Bingo!!! Exactly how I feel about Mr. CT.
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Ditto x :(
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Just a few thoughts for today (which has been up and down including a slight panic attack in the supermarket....) - :(
I guess whether it is (or isn't) MLC I have to grieve the relationship that I THOUGHT it was -
Regardless of whether WAP decides to ever look my way again (or whether I would take him back) I have to grieve? Right?
I guess I just wasn't prepared to go through this level of grief..
I have a few very good friends who I have spoken to and they understand. Not so much about MLC but friends who have known me and D for a long time and who love us. So I can lean on them to some degree.
I am also aware of not overstepping my welcome...
And in the end my relationship with WAP was mine - so I am the only one who can truly face the feelings.
Maybe I am in denial but I keep coming back to MLC - not ignoring his past - but just in relation to the way he has handled the whole thing in the last 6 weeks.
I do need to be kind to myself - I feel so fragile
One other quick question - it concerns WAPs best friend...he has always been a very close friend of mine too.
I need some advice (not that I can necessarily change anything at this stage).
When I found out about OW it was on the heels of a conversation that I had with WAPs bf who was CONVINCED that WAP was not having an affair/there was no OW. Convinced not only because he believed this of him generally but also because he had asked WAP straight out whether there was anyone else (Jan 10) and WAP emphatically denied it. In fact WAP lied to his bf and said that the weekend he was actually with OW he was helping his son install a kitchen 4 hours away in our home town. So WAPs bf was at pains to convince me that WAPs stories were believable.
I am not usually like this (and i may regret it I think) but when I found out about OW I text WAPs bf and told him what I knew. I was so cross that he had lied to BOTH OF US..
I would usually not involve friends in this way....but the deceit just made me so cross.
I haven't heard from WAPs bf AT ALL (I did say in my text that I did not expect to necessarily get a response)...
I now feel silly - :(
My only blip re outward anger/upset so far - but I feel like I have let myself down
Thanks everyone
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I can understand to well what you say about mourning the relationship you thought you had. One of the dangers in life is having relationships in your own head.
No matter how close you felt-there's a chance someone else didn't have the same attachment or ability to feel it. That leads to much pain and disappointment. You never know how emotionally invested someone else really is.
The only major loss before this I had was losing my father and I realized when I lost him I lost the father I WISH I had had.
That's where some of the grief came from. I'd never get to have him say the things I needed to hear. I'd have to give up on getting any emotional needs met by him. He would never get a chance to express how much I might have meant to him.
This is what I waited for with the ex. In effect? I married someone emotionally unavailable due to their own issues...just like my father.
I never was able to inspire him or be recognized and appreciated for who I am. As complicated or as simple as my thinking might be. There was always something wrong with me as far as the ex was concerned. I told him once that what was wrong with the relationship is he hadn't LISTENED to me in 32 years.
It's normal to want to let anyone who matters about this kind of betrayal. Don't worry about what you said to his friend or if he communicates back.
Don't say anything to anybody you would not say to the WAP's face. That's how I tried to communicate with people who MIGHT say anything to the ex or the "family" in general.
You are wounded and hurt it's not unusual for you to act like this.
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I would usually not involve friends in this way....but the deceit just made me so cross.
I haven't heard from WAPs bf AT ALL (I did say in my text that I did not expect to necessarily get a response)...
I now feel silly - :(
I had a similar experience with my H's bf. Let me tell you that this was my friend at first. I got him a job in my H's firm. he use to be in my cohort at school and his now wife, who was my friend and our school's dean. When all of this happened I met with my friend the h's bf fiance' and asked her point blank. Is there OW, please if you know tell me. All she said was: You need to move on. Later I found out that all 4 of them were meeting and going out together as if I never even existed. (my H's bf and his fiance' and my H with OW) How is that for betrayal. They knew all along. I was the fool.
Expect anything at this point Bellaggio. Our spouse prepare themselves and others for this time of abandonment and they don't want it to be their abandonment. I found that the least I trust mutual friends, the better. They can actually make things worse. There is something about taking sides that trills most people. They feel their in a competition or something or they like the drama, even if they say they don't. I'm sorry that you feel silly. You're not. This is normal. Remember the betrayal and abandonment shatters a trusting spouse whole world. Be gentle with yourselves and allow God to protect your heart. I actually admire how well you're doing in spite of the great pain. (((hugs)) SW
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hi Bellaggio,
it you feel like most LBS, Valentine's Day was probably a hard day for you? It was for me. For 16 years I've received roses and cards and more on that day. Yesterday was just like another day in my new life. What makes it worse is to know that our H is now doing that for another person. A stranger.
Unbelievably painful!!!
I think that any person who feels no remorse or compassion toward his spouse or partner of many years, is not normal. Let him be what he wants to be now.....the wheel of life will turn and they will realize that the grass is not greener. For now we need to start loving ourselves even while rejected because we are worthy women. We are the ultimate hero's. (((hugs))) SW
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This may or not apply or help you:
Sometimes the loss of the illusion is greater than the loss itself.
_______? Breathed ? (not my quote)
This helped me immensely in another situation.
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Hi everyone,
Havent posted for a couple of days - a combination of feeling like I needed some quiet, with my own thoughts and the fact that none of my best friends (who knew WAPP well - we stayed in her house many a time) has come over to visit D and i from Ireland....she is here until late tonight.
She is like a sister to em and a second mother to D.
I havent seen bf since last year but we have spoken on the phone quite a bit. She took one look at me and said that I looked like a shell of the person she had seen - she said that my body looked and moved as if I am in total shock and that I look like I have been put through a liquidiser.
She has been really wonderful since arriving here on Friday - she has given me time to talk - spent time with D etc. I have inly shed a small tear - although yesterday I found very hard. We went into the city centre here and I walked around in a daze - a complete daze - feeling like I was going to throw up....She made a few interesting comments (knowing both of us really well) -
- This is NOT anything to do with me - this is his stuff
- He is a man who is more than likely depressed and running from his feelings - especially about me
- He is probably a man who cant hold down long term relationship
- He has probably done such a good job of switching off that at this stage he wouldn't be thinking about myself of D - he would be fully living his new life (until the reality/truth hits him)
0- She has made a bet with me that within 2 months he would be in contact (probably email first) again - and that OW and him will last for probably 8-9 months..
mMy bf is a very shrewd woman (a solicitor by trade/ she has seen A LOT)....it was interesting hearing what she had to say...
I have been in contact with WAPs brother, I am very close to. They are somewhat estranged (brother thinks WAP has serious issues etc) and I had a few emails back and forth with him late Thursday, early Friday.
WAPs brother was spending yesterday with WAPs sister and her new boyfriend - I am sure he will have information but at this stage I do not want to know. If I do email him in the next few days am not going to mention his time with their sister, or WAP in general. For my own self protection.
I have been reading the Bible a lot and Broken Heart on Hold - I am starting to understand the meaning of letting go and letting God. My bf (who is also quite religious) was talking to me yesterday about letting go and putting your trust in God. She was saying that faith is, by its very nature, trusting in something you cant see, that doesn't appear obvious etc. She was also very clear that many thinks in life are NOT as they seem.
As I wrote to WAPs brother late Thursday - I have to have faith that the best outcome will happen for me and D - whatever that is. If WAP is meant to be in our life in the future then I have to trust that he will be in some way that is healthy and mutual.
2 weeks and 2 days since ANY form of contact with WAP (even email) and 6 weeks since BD. Is this unusual for the early days of BD/Replay? My impression is that there is usually more cycling....
How have all of you coped with periods of No Contact?
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Bellaggio, no contact is difficult because we sort of forget the monster and remember only the person we miss. I have not had any contact with my H for months and have not talked to him or seen him for over 7 months. He doesn't look for me nor tries to make contact. I think that's what is hard...to feel that they don't miss us.
Having contact with him would be even more painful as I would have to deal with the knowledge of his changed personality, with OW and moving on. It's hard to have NC but I chose to take the road of least resistance. Stay busy and try to do things you enjoyed before being a mom and a partner to your WAP. It will be a push but it's better than the alternative. We are here for you and with you...One day at a time. (((hugs)))
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SW,
Thanks so much - no contact for 7 months??? How have you managed to get through this? That seems like a long time but I guess, in MLC terms, this could still well be firmly in Replay...
Do you lose faith? Do you somehow doubt the process? Or is it that NC enables you to detach and, in a funny way, believe in the process more because you are not interfering with their travel through the tunnel.
I know that you have huge faith and it has helped you. How do you lean on your faith and what prayers/scriptures, passages have been helpful for you throughout this period of no contact...?
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Do you lose faith? Do you somehow doubt the process? Or is it that NC enables you to detach and, in a funny way, believe in the process more because you are not interfering with their travel through the tunnel.
Bellaggio, I don't have much a choice. He does not initiate contact so as a result I don't either. I've tried to keep in touch by asking him how he is doing or sending him a text message on New Years day with "I miss u..happy New Year" No response. The OW is keeping him from having any contact with me. Only practical stuff. Yes, it is very difficult. I'm not sure that I trust this process very much. I know don't know that having contact or not makes any difference at this point. It hurts either way.
I know it's hard Bellaggio. I ask God everyday to give me the strength to move forward. I'm not even sure if I'm dealing with MLC here of if my H has a PD. I need to put it in God's hands because I have absolutely no control over what he does and thinks or what is really happening.
I'm not sure this helps very much. All situations are different. I'm sorry I could not give you much here. Perhaps other LBS have more to say concerning NC and their experiences. Please just know you're not alone in this and that this is a very painful process we all struggle with. ((Big hug)) SW
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I know that you have huge faith and it has helped you. How do you lean on your faith and what prayers/scriptures, passages have been helpful for you throughout this period of no contact...?
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Bellaggio I forgot to give you the scriptures that have helped me to make it through one day at a time.
When I thought I was losing my mind:
2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
When everyone and my thoughts told me that it was hopeless
and I would never feel any happiness again. That it's all impossible and I should do as the world feels it's right:
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
When I felt the terrible pain of betrayal and abandonment...the terrible pain of rejection and the terror of having lost the love of my life for ever:
Deuteronomy 31:6
Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.”
When I thought that there would be no one that I could count on and felt lost:
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
When I couldn't understand why this was happening to me and I was confused and dismayed:
Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
I hope these are helpful. Searching the scriptures and finding the scripture that speak to you personally will be your treasure to bring to mind when you need comfort. Sometimes when I read scripture I introduce my name in the midst to make it more real to me, as if God is speaking to me personally. Which he is. We must remember that this is a spiritual battle we're in. This is a fight against the darts of the wicked one. Please forgive me if you feel I'm preaching. I don't mean to do that. I can only say that the Word and promises of God help me to feel peace.
Isaiah 26:3
Thou (God) will keep him (you Bellaggio) in perfect peace, because your mind is stayed on thee: because you trust in Him.
(((big Hug))) :-*
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I've been NC for 10 and I'll tell you what? It is a BLESSING. And it wasn't easy. Thank God I have friends.
I fought mostly with anger right off the bat and was only able to let it out in one email to him. The rest of it I've been left to deal with. I fought the loss the first time around.
But anger can be put in a positive direction. The second I stopped focusing on him and what HE DID and how it effected me? I found out there's NOTHING wrong with me.
I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me.
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Bellaggio the scripture from Init is very powerful. I can do ALL things.....It mean that you can also do NC and find peace in your heart while doing it. Alone we CANNOT do it. It's unnatural for us to abstain from having contact with the person whom we have been so intimate with and so close ...who was once our best friend. Christ will strengthen you. It is Christ in us...the hope of glory. How powerful if he? Very powerful. The demons trembled at his sight. For the word of God is more powerful than any 2 edge sword.
I find that one day at a time, I can manage the pain as I put my trust in him and go to Him when I feel that I just can't take it any more...He holds you up and will not let you fall.
Having contact with our spouses or partners now is damaging to us because they are not the persons we once knew and they haven't come through their tunnel yet. They can't see clearly and they are taken by anger, depression and guilt. They are broken and we can't fix them. Only God can. All I can do is pray for my H and put him in God's hands.
Know that you're not the only woman who is battling with this. I sometimes think that no one can really know how hard this is for me because I only know my history. What I've seen and what I witnessed is that we all suffer greatly...Suffering is suffering and we all feel the great loss and grief that this crisis has left us with.
I will leave you with one more scripture for it is very powerful when doing NC.
Philippians 4:6
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses ALL understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
If you can, please read and understand Ephesians 6.
Our fight is not with the MLcer.
(For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.)
I'm praying for you and for all the LBS who, like you, are standing for themselves. (((hug))) SW
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Time to start a new thread if you please, Bellaggio. Thanks. :)