Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: LearningIamOk on July 04, 2014, 04:57:36 AM
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I thought it might be a good idea to list some helpful statements by the LBS to the MLCer. I was struck by the following quote from HopeandFaith in her current thread:
She is hurting me right now and I am going to leave it to you to protect me and us from this.
I feel it plays into the White Knight mindset of the MLCer and turns the focus from rescuing OW/OM to rescuing the LBS. It is an angle I have not seen or read about anywhere.
I would love to see others posted here. Even if it wasn't something you said, but read on another thread, please include it as the sheer number of threads to read through is daunting.
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The only person he loves and wants to save is himself. He did that by choosing the OW.
My experience was with my partner's mother, whom he cowardly asked to 'tell me off'. She said some very nasty things to me and when I expressed my hurt and humiliation, he said she was merely standing up for him. Well, then I said I don't have anyone to stand up for me and he said 'that's your business'.
Point is, less talk is better. I keep replaying the hurtful scenes in my mind and it makes me want to stop standing. Beware of monster pushing you to the point of no return. But of course, not our loss to move on.
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I was thinking of opening a thread for truth darts - I don't need them in my nc situation but they interest me. Will keep an eye on this!
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Learning, thanks for starting this thread.
I have been thinking about this too. I actually brought it up to my IC yesterday. She talked about using reflective listening techniques. What I have found to work well is to keep the focus on how I feel instead of point the finger at the MLCer. The less judgemental my comments are the better he responds.
I don't communicate much with my H - it is mostly superficial which is why I brought it up to my IC. I will be testing out some of the methods that RCR talks about and learning about some others. What works for one might not work for another so they have to be tested.
I also think that the communication style will vary depending on where they are in the process. What works 2-3 months in may be different than at 2 years plus.
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Searching, that is exactly what I want to be able to see here. Solid examples of how to talk to the MLCer without blaming. Not that there isn't a lot to blame them for. ::)
I thought HopeandFaith's statement was unique. I know that it worked in her sitch, she is reconnecting, but it could be something to use early in when there is so much confusion and guilt.
There are no right answers, but it is helpful to have an arsenal of words at the ready. I used "I'm married and married people don't date" when my xH tried to talk me into dating people about 6 mos in.
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I have used the reflective technique and it works.
I have also used "I find it interesting that you say.... what does it mean to you when you say...."
MY FAVOURITE is "Uhuh" in a neutral and bright tone. That is especially brilliant when H witters on or implies that he is going to be away or meeting OW.
I also use "I'm sorry you feel that way H but you know it's not true"
I have also said frequently " I'm sorry you feel that way. You have made choices and will have to live with the consequences of those choices. In the meantime, I am making my own choices and am moving forward. I am not waiting for you but I am prepared to listen when you are ready to talk properly about our future."
I have also said " I believe in the real you H not the one that has chosen to destroy and abandon our family."
When H monsters I just say " I'm not doing this H..." put my hand up and walk away.
It's easier to offer examples when there's a stay at home MLCer like mine.
Now I say very little and always have these ready like some sort of mantra if needed.
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this is good. i really would love to see some examples on how to communicate better. i don't live with mine anymore, he moved out yesterday but we do work together, just me and him in a car all day long almost every day. I think I have been doing good keeping the conversations superficial and not talking about our relationship. We get along pretty good for the most part. He complains a lot though, especially about the ow and everything else. if any relationship stuff comes up it's always him an it's usually him trying to convince himself and me it's good we "broke up" even though he still wants to date me. I think I mainly have problems with the texts. I don't know how to properly respond to them when he tells me he loves me. it throws me off.
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I have some things to offer here.. if I can stand looking back and remembering what I am trying to forget. I said some things to my husband that I totally forgot... but he remembers. I did not think he was listening o even on the planet. But he remembers.
One day we went for a walk in the park. Barely, could I stand being with him. But it was a mement of compassion..he looked like a little lost boy for a moment. I rubbed his back as we walked and i said to him. " I can see glimmers of what is happening to you now" .. He said "what does that mean?" .. " I see a big W floating over top of you.. it is the beginning of wisdom... I can see it and i am so proud that you are chasing it , you will be fine. Just an even better man at the end. ". He walked over to a tree, bowed his head and cried.. He often tells how that stuck with him... Makes me cry.
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Not 100% sure this really fits the bill here... but has proven useful for me more than a few times...
H asks for something that I've already told him I will not give until certain criteria are met. He's like the kids - keeps asking... I keep saying no. This goes on for awhile and then I look him straight in the eye and speak in a firm but diplomatic voice "Do you really want to have the REAL conversation that goes with that question?" (Meaning - is he ready to try to prove to me he's done with ow, is going to aa meetings, reminding him what happened the last time, etc) And that has shut him up every time so far.
The "you might be right" is pretty effective at shutting down a potential fight, too.
Will keep my eye on this thread... always interested in having some helpful hints :)
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Learning, I’m confused, do you want ways of communicate with the MCLer or statements that show the MLCer is playing knight in shinning armour to OW/OM. Even if often OW/OM is also playing night in shinning armour with the MLCer.
For me there is a difference between blaming the MLCers (and lets face it, it is their fault), point facts and say that choices have consequences.
I have no idea how to effectively communicate with a MLCer (they are all different). Early on I was in total chaos mode, it has been many years I have not communicate with mine save for legal of financial matters. For me the best way of communicating with a MLCer end up being not to communicate at all. It saves me a lot of stress.
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We are all different so our responses and communication will be different. I'm not good at truth darts. I've tried, but it seems others are much more talented than me. :(
The standard "I'm sorry you feel that way" is what I use when I want to rip his face off. Keeps me under control and lets him have to think.
But for me, which I know is not the right way, I tend to be a bit more to the point with my h. Just here and there when the opportunity presents itself. I make it very quick, dart right in there, say it or ask it and then quick let it go and move on. Not really a truth dart, just a question I want answered. H gets annoyed but it's so quick that he doesn't monster. He does pout though. LOL
It's hard for me to be any other way. And sometimes it works, but the pouting can last a long time. Depends on what the subject matter was.
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I have put up with my mlcer for 5 years now and all I can say is that in that time I have tried every communication approach known to man.
NOTHING works!!! Because that's what we want, for something to WORK. What that actually means is that we are still trying to fix, to help, to be involved. All that has to stop.
I have stopped communicating anything with my h now because nothing works. I tell him what I have to and that's that. I say good morning and hello and that's that. He tells me nothing either. He doesn't share, neither do I, that's how it works.
When he is ready to behave like an adult I will listen, not before.
Just leave them to it.
Sd
X
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Just leave them to it.
Absolutely SD and as Stayed would say - "get the hell out of their way; they are bats**t crazy!"
However it's always useful to have an arsenal of words and neutral comments as well as truth darts - just in case.
But for me, which I know is not the right way, I tend to be a bit more to the point with my h. Just here and there when the opportunity presents itself. I make it very quick, dart right in there, say it or ask it and then quick let it go and move on. Not really a truth dart, just a question I want answered.
TMT - truth darts are pointed comments applicable to that particular moment in time and like every thing else you learn here - you develop your own darts. You are probably doing it without realising it. A truth dart is a shot across the MLCers bows to just remind him that he is the one who has created this mess and he will have to face up to the consequences. Truth darts give them thinky time. Truth darts are the truth of the situation not clever comments to prove that you are right and he is wrong. Truth darts are more effective delivered in a neutral tone too.
This is part of your growth BTW TMT, you have to grow too, as well as your MLCer.
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The dialogue, in my opinion, is not to get them to behave in a certain way. Instead, I was hoping to see things along the line of making a point that would stop whatever behavior they were presenting at the moment. A comeback of some sort so that the nonsense they spew is cut short. Or a statement about how something affects the LBS without directly blaming the MLCer.
Anjae, I used H&F's comment because I thought it was a unique approach to one facet of MLC. As I stated, I don't think that it will be helpful to all cases, but it seemed effective for her and I just wanted to put it out there for anyone else to use. I agree with you that sometimes not communicating is the way to go, but if you are, I wanted some "jewels" at the ready. Kind of like a dictionary for MLC speak. ;D When MLCer says______, you thumb thru the "dictionary" for a diplomatic response.
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Learning,
I know that you already know this.....I've spent more than a few years trying to think of some words....something to say....that would make ANY difference.
I came up with goose eggs.
I think the best response....is not to respond.
I guess time will tell if my "strategy" works? (It isn't a strategy, by the way. Just a way for me to keep my sanity....and that is to opt out and leave him to figure out his own life.
Situations are different and some (a few?) MLCers may be able to be reached by the right words. I just think for the one that is deep, deep, deep in his MLC? There isn't a thing the LBS can say that will make the difference.
JMHO,
L
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Instead, I was hoping to see things along the line of making a point that would stop whatever behavior they were presenting at the moment. A comeback of some sort so that the nonsense they spew is cut short. Or a statement about how something affects the LBS without directly blaming the MLCer.
I have not been around any direct behaviour of my MLCer since May 2007. From BD, October 2006, to May 2007 I was in shock mode, everything was a mess, I had no idea what I was dealing with. Had none clever thing to say or do at that point.
Then there were many years when we did not speak at all (just an email if necessary). In 2011 I needed to speak on the phone with Mr J (lagal/finances. He was mad monster. 2012 I spoke with him several times on the phone (same reasons), but this time told him I was tired because of looking after my grandmother. He did not monsters and listened. Did it change a thing? No.
He is still in Replay, he is still running to court with his silly cases. He is one of those who is too deep in the tunnel to really listen, but, at least he has not repeated the being monster or rude on the phone. I have nor speak with him in well over a year or a year and a half. I have nothing to say.
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Hi all, I am still relatively new here but here are the things that seem to be working or have been helpful.
Very early, when I first found out about OG/W just after BD, I said "she must be something really special" H has said multiple times that that really cut deep because I would "win" on just about every point. It was helpful for me to assess where H was at, in that he doesn't seem to feel like he deserves me and has affaired down as a way of seeking equity in his personal relationship. Of course, we all know that this is kooky logic and only brings him further into the abyss.
Another thing that seemed to shift his negative actions was to use something from our past, during the days of courting, we used to write each other lovely packaged cryptic letters. I chose to write one to him, it was very positive and focused on his quality attributes as well as a few impressionable moments from our relationship. This was definitely a dodgy move. My H is very broken and his self esteem is totally down the toilette. In other cases I don't think this would be helpful, but for us it helped to pull him out of a blaming mindset and started to remind him that I am not the enemy and that we did share a beautiful past. I slipped it into a book of his and he got to read it on the metro while traveling to work (where he would likely see the OG/W which was intentional). He said later that it really hit a nerve.
Generally, it seems to help my H to not put any pressure on him. The more I act in opposition to what he expects or thinks he deserves the closer he steps towards reconciliation. Again, I am still very early in this so I am likely up for some much rougher water. Time will tell.
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My h openly admits to not em embedding anything good about me or us. He said to me that he has forgotten everything. I would reckon that all that went during the detachment phased where he told me detaching was easy, all you had to do was think about all the bad things :o
One truth dart I used which stung like a bee, was " when you have been habitually lied to by one person like I have, then it would be a very tall order for them to get me to believe a single word that came out their mouth". I didn't say the word YOU, but he said what chance I have got then. I answered none right now actually.
Sd
X
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I think my point is still being missed here. I don't want dialogue that wakes the MLCer up. I want dialogue that shuts the MLCer down when they are making us crazy.
Limitless, you are completely correct that nothing we say or do will change them or their minds. I want to see suggestions, phrases, that will stop them dead in their tracks, leave them with their mouths wide open with nothing coming out. They say such idiotic nonsense, the LBS needs to have at the ready things to say that will put a cork in it.
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IMHO As weird as this might sound? I think if there might be any chance of saving the marriage or a relationship NC needs to be implemented immediately.
They are looking to gut somebody like a fish and guess who gets it?
It protects you from any abuse and trying to either make sense of what they are saying or listening to the $h!te they spew. Then you haven't got MORE to get passed even though it may take time.
And they (if they remember half of it) don't have to lament about all the horrible things they said. Their behavior is bad enough....
So in essence the relationship is being protected WE have to be the ones to stick to NC.
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This was a technique I learnt to use with my seriously clingy clinger, but coupled with a very monstery monsterer. Not a fun combo.
He was prone to phoning me and suddenly start raging at me mid MLC monologue. I learnt that with him (clinger), abandonment was at the forefront of everything - so I learnt to reassure him first and then warn him second, and take action thirdly.
'Please do not yell at me. I am here when you are able to speak calmly to me.'
'If you do not stop yelling at me, I am going to put the phone down'
And then without pausing for breath, put the phone down.
I think I only had to do it three times, before he got the picture that I meant business.
Works in person too. Say the words and walk away.
After the first monstery months, he has only tried to yell at me twice in recent years - both times, I say the first line, and he quickly calms down and apologises to me.
And yes - sadly it does feel like you are trying to wrangle a three year old.
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I got your point. Only simple things will do to shut a MLCer. For me it would be, “I need time to get used to it” (early on, when I was still around and Mr J was full force about divorce), “I need to think about it” (for whatever madness suggested), or “No now, I’m tired” or “I need to go now”. A few times, when I was still in the capital I said “Please leave, I need peace”. He left.
For me it all become very simple because I do not directly deal with a MLCer and I only talk to him if I want to/need to. Since I don’t want to talk to him, it is only when absolutely needed. I don’t need to stop him dead on his tracks.
In It, not immediately. And some of us cannot go NC, we have kids or business with the MLCer. And early for some of us NC is not good, we get too nervous or anxious. Later, depending of the situation, NC may be the right thing.
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Kikki, that is exactly what I am looking for. It got you back in control of the situation.
Anjae, you also were able to shut Mr J down and get him to back away. Perfect.
InIt, NC is a great healing tool for the LBS. It keeps you from having to shut them down because there is no interaction.
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Mr J did not back away that easily. But it worked on the moment. At a point I went NC. It is a bliss not to have to exchange dialogue with him. Since he is a vanisher I also do not have to see him. Of course early on I was not thrilled with not speaking or seeing him.
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I guess it just depends on what level of crazy your dealing with or how much pain you feel you deserve. I've had my fill regardless of whatever his problem is.
I'm not a masochist and they say not to take it personally.
I understand they are the ones with the problem but when you end up in the emergency room getting x-rays it's not their problem anymore.
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So, I was wondering if there was any advice to offer on a vanisher MLCer? As far as communication goes? The last I got was an email a little over a week ago (after running into him at a restaurant) stating that he is ready to dissolve our marriage, among other things that are his calm cool collected version of monster. Mind you, my BD was 02/22 of this year..... I am going dark at the moment, for as long as I can. I fear he will try and push legal things through as fast as he can due to the skyrocketing nature of his music career at this point in time, that will be taking him away for gigs for periods of time. There is an alienator that is his "stylist" that I'm sure is pushing this, and he doesn't want to have people (fans) judging him for having her with him places, if he chooses, if he's married. He has already taken her to a gig (paid her way even) that was on the opposite coast and was a big deal gig. People that were there know he's married, and know me, and were not pleased with his choice of travel companion being not me..... Went to my house last Sat to get some things and found a photo copy of a business card for a divorce mediator on our table, folded up and had obviously been in his pocket (meaning someone else gave it to him). I have a consult with a lawyer this Thursday. I am standing, of course, but I know I will have to speak to him eventually. He makes me nervous with his calm demeanor (which used to soothe me pre MLC), so I tend to clam up and forget how to arrange my thoughts. I always pray for God to help me, but the last few times we've spoken, I wasn't expecting to see him and was caught off guard, with not enough time to collect myself.....
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Dr George Simon - 'A wolf in sheep's clothing'.
I know there has been mention of this before on the board, but I spent a bit of time in the weekend reading his blog. Such an eye opener for those of us who have dealings with our currently narcissistic, character disordered MLCers.
http://www.manipulative-people.com/understanding-manipulation-tactics-part-1/
These manipulative tactics enable a person to engage in a well-crafted whitewash of irresponsible behavior - feigning ignorance, feigning innocence, minimizing, denial, rationalizing, lying, lying by significant omission, scape-goating, projection, silence, stonewalling.
He recommends pointing out the behaviour.
Most of the time, the disturbed character already “sees” the issues that need attention and correction, but still “disagrees” with the pro-social principles that would make the relationship work. But before any problem can be dealt with, a person has to do more than see it, they have to “own” it. If they’re not willing to admit the problem, they’re not likely to be of the mind to be rid of it.
Lying and refusing to accept responsibility is NOT denial. It’s just lying. And it’s often an effective tactic of impression management and responsibility avoidance.
I did that yesterday to my MLCer (pointed out his tactics - they usually come in clusters) and it is softening the extreme silence that I have been subjected to in recent months. (Silence over issues he wants to control, but he still wants to cling around others). Although he is still denying that he is using any of these tactics. Still deflecting it onto me.
Thought it was a good thing for us all to understand.
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arbl206, Your husband is not a vanisher. Vanishers do not send emails saying that they are ready to dissolve the marriage. They vanish. One may be server but will not be told about it. No, no advice about how to communicate with him. What would you tell him? Try to talk him out of it? It does not work with MLCers. You can say I'm sorry you feel that one (or something similar) and leave it at it.
Kikki, pointing out the behaviour may make the MLCer to be less monster, but in my experience it will no change anything. Not until they are ready to own their responsibility. The MLCer will deny and deny and deny they are using the tactics they are.
But if they are using tactics, and aware of it, that leaves us with the problem that they know what they are doing. And if they know exactly what they are doing, there really is no excuse whatsoever for their behaviour.
This if often a matter of debate here in the board, is the MLCer fully aware or is it not? How aware, and how capable of stopping their behaviour is an addict? If we see MLC similar to addiction, do we go for they can stop it whenever they want, or for only when they are capable of owning it and deal with the responsibility?
I still don't know which lean for. For me they clearly suffered some hormonal/brain alteration but how much do they carry on with their behaviour simply because they can afford it in every way? Really do not know.
How effective is dialogue with an addict? Zero? Or do some things stick and are latter processed?
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How effective is dialogue with an addict? Zero? Or do some things stick and are latter processed?
I have often heard that 12 step programs designed for addicts are very helpful for those that love them. I would assume that dialogue would be part of this. There is probably some very good information in these programs about this and also about detaching lovingly. I have often thought the MLC'ers behaviour was like that of an addict - which is not to excuse it. We can learn to understand it which shows us how to create effective boundaries for ourselves and in turn gives them back accountability.
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MLC as similarities with addiction, but my experience with both (with addiction is not from family) is that they don’t listen (they may even promisse that they are going to quit drugs/alcools but they don’t) and only make amends when in rock bottom. The lucky ones. The others end up dead. I’ve know several that died, others spend many, many years sleeping in the street or in drug neighbourhoods, until, usually, they got a death scare serious enough to, somehow, make them really choose to sober up.
In my country drug addicts and alcoholics are “treated” (it is “treated” because they are never cured, they relapse if they use/drink again) in psychiatric hospitals. They have building/wards for those two situations, that are seen as a health issue. There are also some institutions, usually religious ones that use 12 steps programs.
Think here in the board we understand MLC (more or less, since no one really seems to know exactly what it is), but there is no society support form MLCers or LBS. Unlike for addicts (of drugs, gambling, sex, etc.) or alcoholics.
There is also the problem that, at a point, the brain (and other organs) become affected, making it very hard for the person suffering from addiction to be able to give it up. And making it difficult for those MLCers that got into drugs or drinking to leave behind those addictions.
It is tricky to make an addict accountable. They are going to do lots of nasty things to get their drug of choice. They even escape the hospital (and I thing other rehabilitation facilities) to get drugs. And we all know that many are in and out of rehabilitation for years on end.
Communication with a junkie or heavy alcoholic is often impossible. Even a trained psychiatrist has troubles reaching them. Communication is a two way street and there is only one person communicate, the non addict/non MLCer.
Also, with some, the more loving and caring one is with them, the more they abuse and misbehave. Not to mention the ones who become violent.
I don’t see addicts and alcoholics as narcissists (of course narcissists can be drug addicts or alcoholics), their brains/bodies got hocked on substances/things. The MLCer is a little different, they do show lots of narcissist traits and they seem to take a long, long time to suffer the consequences of their behaviour, unlike drug addicts or alcoholics.
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My stepfather was a mlcer who turned to heroin instead of an ow... so I enjoyed the double perks of the depression spiral with all the'warning' behaviour and later the addict behaviour (which is truly very similar to other mlcers).
Do I win a badge? Achievement unlocked:mlc+junkie combo?
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Kikki, pointing out the behaviour may make the MLCer to be less monster, but in my experience it will no change anything. Not until they are ready to own their responsibility. The MLCer will deny and deny and deny they are using the tactics they are.
But if they are using tactics, and aware of it, that leaves us with the problem that they know what they are doing. And if they know exactly what they are doing, there really is no excuse whatsoever for their behaviour.
This if often a matter of debate here in the board, is the MLCer fully aware or is it not? How aware, and how capable of stopping their behaviour is an addict? If we see MLC similar to addiction, do we go for they can stop it whenever they want, or for only when they are capable of owning it and deal with the responsibility?
I still don't know which lean for. For me they clearly suffered some hormonal/brain alteration but how much do they carry on with their behaviour simply because they can afford it in every way? Really do not know.
How effective is dialogue with an addict? Zero? Or do some things stick and are latter processed?
No idea what the answer to all of this is.
I obviously struck my MLCer on a 'softer' day - and whether it was synchronicity or whether it was pointing out his manipulation tactics today (which he vehemently denied) but coincided with him talking to me on the phone for an hour today about business things that we needed to discuss and which he had been avoiding discussing for months.
My MLCer obviously wanted to cling today, and we also had a bevy of emails back and forth, after our telephone conversation.
I don't expect any of this to change the course of his crisis, he's still very deluded - whether that is deliberate, or something else, I just don't know - but it helped me today in getting him to communicate when he had been running for the hills.
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Due to my MLCer being mostly on the vanisher side of the spectrum, I only have stories of others-
"P" (the mlcer) and "T" (the lbs) were married for about 10-12 years and had a small son. "P" decided that she was unhappy, moved out and divorced "T". It happened quick due to "P" worked for a divorce lawyer and basically gave "T" everything so she could escape fast. (Of course, my H was furious and called her all kinds of names.)
At the final divorce hearing "T" gave "P" a letter saying, "This is your time. Nothing is holding you back from doing great things. I just want you to be happy". "P" told me that she went home that day and cried her eyes out. It took about 18 months after that when she started having second thoughts.
They are now remarried.
She told me she just couldn't shake the words in that letter. She still gets choked up at how unselfish and caring her H was during her worse times.
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All these people are definitely better than me... lol. When I think of a possible confrontation with my X, it's mostly full of me being ice cold showering him with disdain and despisement.
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I've, occasionally, thrown a truth dart.
One I remember was, we were watching a movie where a couple were taking their vows, my X (kiddingly) said..."There's the problem..you never said "obey."
I came back with.."What difference does it make, you promised til death us do part?"
He never said another word. : )
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Oh Thunder - How I wish I was as quick witted as you. I only things of these things afterward. So annoying.
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Oh I'm not quick TMT. It always think about what I should say afterwards. It was just one good shot. lol
I had a few other times but I can't remember them now. I'll have to think back. : )
I know so often my X would make some silly remarks like..."Boy, your bf must be very patient to allow you to see me so often." (fishing?)
At first I would say things like..."Nope, no bf here"....now I just say.."Yes, he is very patient."
Let him wonder. o: )
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Kikki, that type of communication, like a business one, or requesting Mr J for something, like two years ago for the invoice of my original mobile (that come with the sim card), works. Or at times it works. He did went looking for the invoice, contacted the accountant, asked SIL if she had a case with documents that were ours, then texted me back.
However it is not fluid, it does not always works. In the past I had asked him to look for some of my books. He did, found them, send the ones I was after at the time. They were a couple. Later I asked for the bulk plus my family belongings. He never send them and his answer for my family things was “in due time”. I asked him if almost 8 years were not enough time and told him my grandmother does not have time, I want the things she gave me.
What happened? Nothing. He just changed from I have nothing that is ours to “in due time”. To be fair, I think mine is one of those that if I had divorced him right after BD his crisis would had been shorter. No more need for him to keep trying to nag me. Or maybe given the world he got himself into the crisis would be as longer. But my life would have been very different, especially money wise, if I had divorced him on the spot. The biggest mistake of my life was to think OW1 was a brief affair and not run into a lawyer as soon as she was made public.
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know so often my X would make some silly remarks like..."Boy, your bf must be very patient to allow you to see me so often." (fishing?)
Oh how I recognise that comment. Almost playground mentality. I too used to brush it off with a don't be silly - you're my BF . Now I just say UHUH! Perfectly non committal>
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The boyfriend/girfriend thing is the MLCer fishing. UHUH! is the perfect reply to that.
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I wish I'd known this earlier when I was having to hear that crap everyday.
Filing it away with the rest for future use.
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What exactly is fishing? I'm still new to all of this ? Last night I mentioned that either this weekend or next that my friends and I are planning a girls night out. We are splitting a hotel room and just going for dinner and dancing just girl fun. (my sister in law and brother are having some marital issues as well). So then he texts me back and says " Right on, that would be fun! Bring some guys back to the room" and I said "It should be fun and no boys allowed! Girls night!" and he said "Booze involved and boys could be welcome" so I just "Um nope, that's not who I am" then he just went on to say he was just kidding.........is that fishing???
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Fishing = looking for information.
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To be fair, I think mine is one of those that if I had divorced him right after BD his crisis would had been shorter. No more need for him to keep trying to nag me. Or maybe given the world he got himself into the crisis would be as longer. But my life would have been very different, especially money wise, if I had divorced him on the spot. The biggest mistake of my life was to think OW1 was a brief affair and not run into a lawyer as soon as she was made public.
Anjae, I was one of those who packed his bags and filed the week of BD. He stalled and stalled but the courts and ow pushed so now we are divorced. I often wondered if I didn't file that he wouldn't have been pushed into ow arms. We can't second guess at this point. What happened, happened and if it is meant to be, they will come back.
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To be fair, I think mine is one of those that if I had divorced him right after BD his crisis would had been shorter. No more need for him to keep trying to nag me. Or maybe given the world he got himself into the crisis would be as longer. But my life would have been very different, especially money wise, if I had divorced him on the spot. The biggest mistake of my life was to think OW1 was a brief affair and not run into a lawyer as soon as she was made public.
Anjae, I was one of those who packed his bags and filed the week of BD. He stalled and stalled but the courts and ow pushed so now we are divorced. I often wondered if I didn't file that he wouldn't have been pushed into ow arms. We can't second guess at this point. What happened, happened and if it is meant to be, they will come back.
Right there with you Anjae....I also packed his clothes up the day he left. Though I know he is not happy, he has destroyed everything he worked for and his reputation along with it. I thought it would not last this long, but now I believe he has resigned himself to his fate and it may be years, if ever, he wakes up.
Some of my talks with him before he dropped off the planet in May: (Said in a neutral, caring voice)
"You need to take care of yourself, because she is not interested in your well-being. She is only interested in what is good for her"
"Open your eyes H....because it will not be long before you fall down the rabbit hole without a ladder to get out."
"I will be the only one in your life who never gave up on you. When she is done, you will be out on the street, no friends and no home to go to."
"You realize you are doing so many things against the law in reference to me, this house, our rental apartments....no one else would have been this nice or patient with you H....but I at least deserve to be treated with respect. I think I am owed that much. And I don't see that you are giving me even that."
His response to all of these, looking at the floor, in a reserved, soft voice..."Yea I know, I know."
When he and the $lut came here one day, when I was gone and took a bunch of things (totally illegal in Germany), some of those things were mine. I have texted him 3x on Viber asking for them back, said I will not ask again. His one response was "You will get them" That was 2 months ago >:(
Those are just a few I can remember. I stopped trying to help. I have not heard from him since early May. Even though agreed upon, he gives me no support. Time to play hardball. I tried to be fair and it got me no where. I have gone NC for now. Contact brought me absolutely nothing...so we see how it goes the other way.
Funny thing will be, once I start this ball rolling, he will exploid and rant how badly I am treating him...just waiting for that phase to show its face.
SSG
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A while ago when we were talking on the phone and he was complaining about lack of money, I just said "its your choice" on more than one occasion..... He just agreed with me.
Lately in texts I just ask him to "afford me some respect"......its like talking to the children when they were younger.
I prefer no contact, its better than all the butterflies and panic attacks that seeing his name flash up on my phone causes me.
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Lately in texts I just ask him to "afford me some respect"......its like talking to the children when they were younger.
I prefer no contact, its better than all the butterflies and panic attacks that seeing his name flash up on my phone causes me.
I told mine in May...that I have been more than nice in this mess and after 17 years of being there for him...the least he could do is treat me with respect...I think I have earned that much. He agreed and then vanished... it is then I finally decided No Contact. I am right there with you TT...
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Wow Kikki,
I've just been reading a lot of your posts tonight because I noticed you posted about dissociative identity disorder earlier. A lot of what you are understanding of MLC is exactly the direction I'm heading. Well, I am going to talk to a psychologist about my journey in all of this to try and make sense of it all.
This last post about Manipulation Tactics really relates to what I've dealt with for years as well.
I may be leaving this list because I cannot invest in it right now. But feel free to message me privately, and maybe we can keep in touch via email or facebook, if you want.
Take good care.
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try repeating any questions and add a pause and say let me think about that , first it shows your listening second it after pausing it seems to throw them off balance and gives u time not to reply in haste so they can pounce especially when the want to monster.
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Good idea Pascale. I can see that being effective.
Backtome - My H is one of the more 'out there' MLCers, and so I (and Ready2 and Anjae) all went searching for further information to explain the extreme changes.
Such the polar opposite of who my H used to be.
I still can't quite work out if their manipulation is new, learnt behaviour, or whether it is due to the fog of the depression. Some things we still just don't understand and are hoping that research is done on this dis-ease some day.
It's desperately needed.
Glad you're talking to a psychologist for yourself. I did the same, and it was helpful - even if none of them had experienced, or had any knowledge about this midlife malady. They tend to call it late manifestation of bipolar disorder (the jury is out on that). It was one that mentioned the dissociative disorder to me.
Let us know how you get on and you're welcome to PM me any time too.
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The last time I got the monster (it's been about a month) I said to him: "I get it. God is good & I just want you to be ok".
I was acknowledging his feelings (even though it was typical mlc bs) but at the same time reminding him of his faith (because he is struggling & in pain) & at the same time letting him know that I care about him.
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I forgot to include I also said "Be prayerful".
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i tell mine he forgets who he is talking to and he better not disrespect me cause a queen doesn't take that. of course my h is weird so when i get assertive with him like that he backs down. i tell him not to project his mess on me cause i am not the one causing it and he needs to save that for the one who is then i walk off. he then runs after me like a puppy. it's so exhausting.
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Blackice, I like your approach. They seem to like to be put in their place and need boundaries. ;D Seems to work for you. Keep doing it.
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I wonder about this also when we finally put our foot down in regards to not accepting anymore disrespect..who do they end up projecting at? As far as I know the only ow he has now is his mother...
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he projects it on the ow. i put my foot down all day every day knowing full well when he gets back to his place he throws it all at her. makes my day. she deserves it. she is the one causing all his stress anyway.
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he projects it on the ow.
I wonder about this all the time. Mine is a vanisher so if I do think about them, this is what I think about. My H was very angry months before BD. He talked to me the day after BD (bomb drop was a 2 minute conversation that he wanted a divorce and there was someone else). When I asked about her, (he lied about many things such as her age) he was very defensive of her, screaming "this is not her fault". Funny things is, I didn't say it was, i just wanted to know who the hell she was. He wouldn't even give me a name.
Anyways, the few interactions we had the following months, he would blame me for "everybody treating him like $h!te" and how "somebody is telling me what to say", "everybody is controlling somebody", "everybody is after his money" "I"M treating HIM like a punching bag" (even though we didn't talk for months) blah, blah, blah...almost everything that came out of his mouth was ridiculous. He was either talking about himself "I'm not stupid, you know" (he said this a dozen times in less than an hour) or her "you think I have an endless supply of money".
So now that they are living "happily ever after" in their huge house and I am virtually out of the picture, who is he blaming all his problems on? Just checked his account again, he has less than $100 dollars. Is that still my fault b/c he has to pay alimony? Or will his anger now shift to the next person in front of him,....."the girl"? Does a long period of time go by when they do realize that they made a mistake but now just deal with it? If they are still in "escape and avoid", do they shove all their anger on the "ow" and still avoid it's within themselves? It would give me a little satisfaction know that I had 25+ great years, and she will get all the crap that she deserves. If it is that bad, why does it seem to last sooooo long?
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mine tries to pin the money situation on me but he can't cause he knows it's all him. i don't talk about him to anyone so that nips that one in the bud. all his frustrations in life now come from ow. so i let him take it out on her. if he tries to project onto me how he feels about her i remind him very harshly that i am not her and i don't cause him any drama so he needs to save it for her and that is when he texts her and says all kinds of horrible things. he then goes back to his place and does it again, then they will have a few days where she kisses his butt and then it happens again. it's funny to watch but you really have to think why either one of them puts up with it.
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Mine often rants about money. Yesterday he said he's living like a student. I say that's his decision or it's not my fault.
Once I list the things I'm paying for that are all for the kids (and that I'm about to have a huge pay cut which he is feeling a bit responsible for) he starts saying he will contribute more. It's like he can't control his brain-things pop out of it and then the rational side appears again.
He said I was having a go about him leaving our son on his own (I sent a couple of texts-one was expressing that it's not like him and there must be a good reason!) I said I could've been much more angry and I've been quite good about it-actually I've been good about the whole thing. That shut him up.
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Money rants seem to be the standard. Mine put off moving out of his parents till he was 31 and I let him stay for free in my apartment. After bd he was talking of buying a house. Later he was complaining about not being able to afford rent. I was just kind of like. .. .uh... ok...