Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Jackolar12 on October 04, 2014, 10:33:05 AM
-
Hi does anyone have information on female Mlcer return stories please.
-
I was going To start a thread ad asking the same question. I've searched high and low and havent found 1 story of a woman returning. Very discouraging. Hopefully one of us can post that story some day! Keep your head up.
-
One of the first things my independant councilor told me when I sat down in his office and told him I want to win my wife back was..."Split, I hate to tell you this but in my 50 years of counciling, I've seen very few cases where the wife wanted out and changed her mind. The women tend to be the 'keepers' of the relationship...and when they let go it's usually for good. You need to start preparing yourself for that reality."
Well my heart pretty much sank when I heard that. I wanted to deny it, believe that I could be one of the rare cases of men who wins his walk away wife back. But as soon as I started to accept the inevitable that he was trying to prepare me for, the healing started to begin.
Now that she's gone I focus on maintaining a healthy co-parenting relationship with my MLCer, which has it's own challenges. I've stopped worrying if I will ever win her back. I still love her, but ultimately I don't care if she ever wants me back, and honestly I don't know if I'd be happier going back to her even though my kids would love it. I've realized that putting up with a woman who doesn't accept you for the man you are is a miserable unhappy existence. Living under her constant scrutiny led to my unhappiness within the marriage, which in turn led to the choices I made that ultimately sealed our fate. I made some mistakes, I made them out of living in an unhappy and unhealthy way, I was unhappy because she was unhappy with me and the relationship wasn't whole, she was unhappy because I was unhappy. It was a vicious circle of unhappiness veiled in a cloak of pretending...to save face in front of our families, friends and kids. And I want more out of a life partner and so does she.
She wants to be friends...hang out with the kids as a 'family' but it can't happen. Probly not for a long time if ever, which sucks for my little girls, but the pain of her betrayal...being kicked out of my home, replaced with another man in a matter of weeks after BD. It's to much, no...she is not my friend. And why would I ever want someone back in my life who could so easily do that to me?
I have tons of respect for the Standers. I tried for a bit, had high and noble hopes. But now I am on to better things. I wish everyone the best in their own journey.
-
Here is one
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1756.msg255371#msg255371
-
A friend of mine has neighbours who got back together after about four or five years apart. The wife was the one who abandoned the relationship.
She wants to remarry, but her exH is not yet sure.
But they have been back together for a few years now.
-
Split Open and Melt
Of course there are female MLCers who return.
I'm not familiar with your story, but reading what you wrote above describes a troubled marriage more than it describes MLC.
-
My wife and I see counselors in the same practice. We both signed waivers allowing them to work together without telling either of us specific details. My counselor has told me I should continue to fight for my marriage based on what they have heard from my wife. Counselor has told me that she has seen people recover from "I love u but" and other statements my wife has made.
I feel this type of counseling is a great alternative to traditional marriage counseling. I don't believe sitting in a room for an hour with a MLC spouse trying to "work it out" would be at all productive, probably just the opposite. My point is, it's not over till it's over! I know the odds are against us men, but one of us is going to succeed. You have to believe that if you are going to take a stand!
-
Thanks to everyone who responded to my post on female MLCERS return stories,old pilot how do I make this thread sustainable please.
-
Split Open and Melt
Of course there are female MLCers who return.
I'm not familiar with your story, but reading what you wrote above describes a troubled marriage more than it describes MLC.
Right, sorry I wasn't saying they don't return. I kind of launched into a bit of a rant there, my apologies.
I believe my XW began her trip into the tunnel several years before BD. I also believe I myself experienced my own symptoms of MCL before that....and the marriage was troubled as a result of us not working well together to try and fix things.
Sorry if my post seemed like I was trying to persuade anyone to believe anything. I was just bringing my experience.
-
Hi does anyone have information on female Mlcer return stories please.
Female return stories are rare. A contributing factor is perhaps, as RCR puts it, "so many women take the scorched earth Monster-b!tc# route."
-
While I don't know the details of the story; I do know of one. My insurance lady had a MLC about 25 years ago. She divorced her husband, but realized what she had done 3 years later and won him back. They have been happily married ever since.
I agree that it would be a rare case for a woman to come back if it were due to normal type relationship problems, but I believe that a MLC is different and the odds of them returning are just as good as a male's. The reason we don't see many stories (I think) is because there are far more men that go through MLC than women, and just as with any MLC'r returning home, it is ultimately up to the LBS whether they take them back or not. Sadly, I think that the LBS in most cases does not want them back. So if you couple the fact that most of them are male and most of the time the LBS does not take them back, you hear very few stories.
-
Thanks everyone for contributing, please keep the female return stories coming.
-
Well, mine came back, but then left again a few years later (well she's still living with me, but she's gone emotionally, etc.) - so I'm not sure if that counts. Will she try coming back again? I have no idea. I have a gut feeling she will try someday, but who knows. She complains about everybody's husband these days. Other than her affair partner(s), she seems to be a man hater lately, well at least a husband hater.
Her mom went through an MLC as well, and eventually got back together with her H, but then left again as well (for good that time). My W pretty much blames her father for the whole thing though. She's always complaining about how he left them with hardly anything, etc. I try to stay out of those rants, but she keeps forgetting that her mom left him, not the other way around.
I know of another story where a lady started having an affair with this "bad boy" type guy. She divorced her H, got a bunch of tattoos, etc. and eventually married the OM. That marriage only lasted 9 months, and then she and her original H got back together and I guess are better than ever.
I also think a lot of LBS men get snatched up pretty quickly after divorce by OW - so the opportunity doesn't even exist for their return. It seems like once a year or so, there is a "Dear Abby" article in the newspaper about a woman writing in saying how she had an affair and regrets it to this day and her H won't take them back.
-
Thank you for sharing TB. I'm praying for you and your wife.
-
I have an acquaintance who lives in another city about 3 hrs away. His XW had multiple affairs with much younger men, essentially turned into the town tramp. She monstered at him relentlessly; accused him of everything. Had him arrested and put in jail; tried to take his kids away. He signed away everything to her hoping it would show her how much he loved her. It didn't work; she divorced him.
He moved away to another city to start a new life himself. Five years later, he received a message she wanted to see him and get back together. His response...NEVER.
-
I have an acquaintance who lives in another city about 3 hrs away. His XW had multiple affairs with much younger men, essentially turned into the town tramp. She monstered at him relentlessly; accused him of everything. Had him arrested and put in jail; tried to take his kids away. He signed away everything to her hoping it would show her how much he loved her. It didn't work; she divorced him.
He moved away to another city to start a new life himself. Five years later, he received a message she wanted to see him and get back together. His response...NEVER.
This is exactly what I was talking about. The LBS often cannot handle the damage done during their W's MLC and by the time they come back around the LBS wants nothing to do with them anymore.
-
A close friend of mine had his wife return after affair and what sounds like many symptoms of MLC. I will say he has gone above and beyond to change himself. It has been a year since he discovered affair. She moved out and came back after s few months. I can not begin to explain the lengths this man has gone to change himself for the better. It has mostly been a thankless process and he has more than once thought about giving up. It wasn't until the past 5 weeks that he has seen real progress in their relationship. So I know it's possible for the women to return.
-
A close friend of mine had his wife return after affair and what sounds like many symptoms of MLC. I will say he has gone above and beyond to change himself. It has been a year since he discovered affair. She moved out and came back after s few months. I can not begin to explain the lengths this man has gone to change himself for the better. It has mostly been a thankless process and he has more than once thought about giving up. It wasn't until the past 5 weeks that he has seen real progress in their relationship. So I know it's possible for the women to return.
I believe with MLC it's more than possible. It's inevitable. It's just a question of how long will it take and how much damage has been done.
-
females males its all the same how much damage they cause and how broken they are and time its we that eventually move on hang in there and god bless u and yours.
-
I had my own crisis back in 2004. Now the shoe is on the other foot. My affair was short lived and my h found out. He totally lost it. It was real bad and he had a revenge affair. I was kicked out of my house and a lot went down. We almost signed d papers. I couldn't do it. We slowly got back together,but things weren't dealt with. Having all the bad stuff happen opened my eyes. I vowed to never put another human being through that again.
When he left me October 2012 he never said anything,but after a while he used my affair to blame for his own Mlc. I know some of what he went through then stirred up things from his past.
-
I think braincell is working on a success story.
He hasn't posted lately but from other communication it appears to be headed in the right direction for him.
I'll see if I can get him to post an update.
-
the shame of this is male/female when and if they come back there still broken people who have inflicted major emotional and financial damage to the lbs and there families we should continue to heal and grow they remain stagnant
-
'Stepping Stone' seems to be moving toward reconciliation. Wishing him the best!
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4928.140
-
Thanks to everyone for contributing female return stories and keep them coming please it gives us male Lbs spouses a Ray of Hope.
Kind regards
Jackolar12
-
Just keep in mind, the ray of hope isn't for us. Your MLC spouse will be begging for a ray of hope one day (or they'll continue to spiral out of control the rest of their lives). They will get a second chance if we want to accept it. Unfortunately, by that time, most of us will have moved on. Just keep living your life as if she isn't coming back...and one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, is when they usually try to return. Then it is decision time for you...a very tough decision.
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
In the end, they destroy themselves. As much pain and loneliness they cause us, it will hit them twice as hard eventually.
One thing that amazes me is the amount of people that seem to be OK with what she's doing. Do we really have that many screwed up, depressed, immoral people living in the world?!? I mean, who "likes" a facebook post from the OM who says he was with my W for the weekend?! Messed up world we live in...
-
Just keep in mind, the ray of hope isn't for us. Your MLC spouse will be begging for a ray of hope one day (or they'll continue to spiral out of control the rest of their lives). They will get a second chance if we want to accept it. Unfortunately, by that time, most of us will have moved on. Just keep living your life as if she isn't coming back...and one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, is when they usually try to return. Then it is decision time for you...a very tough decision.
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
In the end, they destroy themselves. As much pain and loneliness they cause us, it will hit them twice as hard eventually.
One thing that amazes me is the amount of people that seem to be OK with what she's doing. Do we really have that many screwed up, depressed, immoral people living in the world?!? I mean, who "likes" a facebook post from the OM who says he was with my W for the weekend?! Messed up world we live in...
My thoughts exactly. My W posted on facebook that she was moving to another town and after a buddy of mine asked her why, she said "guess??". Then a few minutes later she said "H is not coming with me". Followed with "starting off fresh, getting a new start". She also removed her marriage status. It's like she wanted people to know that she is "available". Of course, a bunch of her loser friends "liked" the status update as if it's a good thing that she is leaving her family to "go have fun". After her mom and younger sister found out about it she deactivated her facebook account and hasn't been on since.
-
I probably posted this story on one of my threads but it's appropriate here-
My husbands best friend of 40+ years and his wife were married for about 10 years. They had a 3 year old son. He is a musician and doesn't make a lot of money, she is a paralegal. She started a relationship with a judge and left her family. She said at the time, she was attracted to the life style of being with a judge instead of always struggling financially. They divorced quickly (she worked for a divorce lawyer) and she was gone for about 2 years. At the time my husband was furious with her. "T" said he came home one day and she was mowing the lawn. They remarried about 2 years later.
They have been a great support to me since BD. They were over my house talking and "T" talked about a time that they had to meet to exchange papers. He said he asked "P" (after she handed him the papers) to have a cup of coffee with him. He said she hardly looked up and said she didn't have time. She almost cried when he was recounting this story, she didn't remember the interaction. With me standing there, she said, "T" I'm am so sorry that I put you through that. They both agree that the second marriage is far better than the first.
Of course I asked her what it was like when she was gone. She always starts by stating at the time she was a horrible mother. She was very selfish and was only thinking of herself. and yes, even though it seemed she was happy, she always had one eye on "T". She said she often compared her boyfriend to "T" and the boyfriend just never completely had her heart. She said she felt like she was acting, trying to be someone she was not. It really hit her when she was driving (that's when we always do our thinking, right?) to another state to meet her boyfriend to see a Bruce Springsteen concert. She said the whole way all she could think about was how much she hated Bruce Springsteen (lol) and why is she pretending.
She said she started to panic b/c now "T" had a girlfriend. Long story short, they reconciled and it's been a good 15 years that they are together again.
It does happen.
-
I probably posted this story on one of my threads but it's appropriate here-
My husbands best friend of 40+ years and his wife were married for about 10 years. They had a 3 year old son. He is a musician and doesn't make a lot of money, she is a paralegal. She started a relationship with a judge and left her family. She said at the time, she was attracted to the life style of being with a judge instead of always struggling financially. They divorced quickly (she worked for a divorce lawyer) and she was gone for about 2 years. At the time my husband was furious with her. "T" said he came home one day and she was mowing the lawn. They remarried about 2 years later.
They have been a great support to me since BD. They were over my house talking and "T" talked about a time that they had to meet to exchange papers. He said he asked "P" (after she handed him the papers) to have a cup of coffee with him. He said she hardly looked up and said she didn't have time. She almost cried when he was recounting this story, she didn't remember the interaction. With me standing there, she said, "T" I'm am so sorry that I put you through that. They both agree that the second marriage is far better than the first.
Of course I asked her what it was like when she was gone. She always starts by stating at the time she was a horrible mother. She was very selfish and was only thinking of herself. and yes, even though it seemed she was happy, she always had one eye on "T". She said she often compared her boyfriend to "T" and the boyfriend just never completely had her heart. She said she felt like she was acting, trying to be someone she was not. It really hit her when she was driving (that's when we always do our thinking, right?) to another state to meet her boyfriend to see a Bruce Springsteen concert. She said the whole way all she could think about was how much she hated Bruce Springsteen (lol) and why is she pretending.
She said she started to panic b/c now "T" had a girlfriend. Long story short, they reconciled and it's been a good 15 years that they are together again.
It does happen.
Beautiful story.
There you go dear nah, things are not always as they seem.
-
Keep it up, MeNow, and your going to have another crazy woman on your hands complicating your life. ;)
-
there friends so called want to see them go down a few notches a couple have told me that she is messed but dont want to lose her friendship by confront her the other a new person is a ow who firetrucks everthing in sight and im sure will turn the wife into one and before u jump all over me you are who u hang out with hang out with ows male /female u become a ow all her new friends have major issues they like to party there life away.sorry if i sound bitter but all this crap about its and oppurtunity for growth is bull$h!te ive seen no growth just a downward spiral too doom.
-
Unfortunately I think they grow by hitting rock bottom and learning from the mistakes that they have made along the way :(
-
In response to what twiceburnt said...
"One thing that amazes me is the amount of people that seem to be OK with what she's doing. Do we really have that many screwed up, depressed, immoral people living in the world?!? I mean, who "likes" a facebook post from the OM who says he was with my W for the weekend?! Messed up world we live in..."
I agree that the morals of most people are horrible. In my situation, The OW posted pictures of her and my MLC'r before we were divorced, and there were all these people who "liked" the photo on FB. Of course all these people are regular drunks at the VWF, American Legion, Amvets, etc. My MLC'R had absolutely no interest in belonging to those places. Now he belongs to like 10 of them. The OW and her ex husband, who she was still with, always frequented the VFW. When she left him to chase my husband, she told her ex, "I promise, I will never bring my new man to the VFW where you hang out. 2 weeks later, she's got my husband at the VFW, introducing him to all of her and her ex husbands friends. This is also the woman who posts Jesus and religious posts on her page all the time. You had an affair with a married man, and lived with him for over a year before he was divorced. You told everyone that he had been divorced for years. And you post religious Jesus stuff all the time? Trash. Complete trash. At least I have morals and respect for marriage. And my MLC'r is marrying her this Saturday. How can any intelligent person want to invest their life with such a bottom feeder exempt of morals? I think he is making the biggest mistake of his life by marrying her. I think she is going to cause him emotional and financial destruction. I see her ruining him and then leaving him to move on to her next victim who will have more money. I see my MLC'r either killing himself over that or killing her. I really do. I think when the smoke clears he will be too ashamed to ever get near me again, and I think he will do one of the above. If in the next few years you hear on CNN about some crazy murder suicide in Amherst or Avon, Ohio, it will be these losers.
-
Yes, Pascale666, your W has not been at this for long enough to have any growth yet...it takes years. They Monster, may move out and may Monster some more, calm down, and then move into withdrawal even further than they were before. My xH moved to another town 2 weeks ago, after 4.25 years gone from home and 1.5 years D'd, 2 weeks after my S18 went off to tech school (S lived with xH...not a good sitch for my S). He will not communicate with me thru email anymore and will not tell me where he went to. It is at this point, that possibly they will start to do some internal work on themselves...when they have total quiet. Only time will tell!! I do believe that female MLCer's come around sooner than male MLCer's...if they are going to come around at all..IMHO! It is then up to us if we can handle the reconnection or not. :-\ :P
-
there friends so called want to see them go down a few notches a couple have told me that she is messed but dont want to lose her friendship by confront her the other a new person is a wh*re who f*cks everthing in sight and im sure will turn the wife into one and before u jump all over me you are who u hang out with hang out with wh*res male /female u become a wh*re all her new friends have major issues they like to party there life away.sorry if i sound bitter but all this crap about its and oppurtunity for growth is bull$hit ive seen no growth just a downward spiral too doom.
I get it.
The opportunity is for YOU. You cannot control what your W does.
Rock bottom is sometimes needed before growth can begin.
Get all your anger out here. Maybe check out a therapist/counselor if you think you need one.
-
i am my fourth one lol i see him once a week as for her the in house variety is just brutal just watching a train wreck over and over in slow motion i do use this place to vent its just sad what this is doing to my kids and home life sorry to say she is mentally ill just has way to much damage and yes has to hit bottom.
-
I saw this online and thought it was inciteful.
For anyone new to the "80/20 rule for relationships," it's the theory that says, in a fairly healthy relationship, you only get 80 percent of what you want. Maybe your partner isn't a triathlete or great at sharing his feelings, but it's okay, because the 80 percent you do get is really good. The other part of the equation says that it's the endless search for that missing 20 percent you'd hoped for in your mate that leads people to cheat.
Why do people feel like the 80 percent isn't enough for them, and they want the other 20 percent? The reason is that they don't feel fulfilled and good enough in the relationship and think it's their partner that is the problem. As it turns out, it is our own internal battles that are showing up on the scene, it has nothing to do with our partner.
-
Just keep in mind, the ray of hope isn't for us. Your MLC spouse will be begging for a ray of hope one day (or they'll continue to spiral out of control the rest of their lives). They will get a second chance if we want to accept it. Unfortunately, by that time, most of us will have moved on. Just keep living your life as if she isn't coming back...and one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, is when they usually try to return. Then it is decision time for you...a very tough decision.
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
In the end, they destroy themselves. As much pain and loneliness they cause us, it will hit them twice as hard eventually.
One thing that amazes me is the amount of people that seem to be OK with what she's doing. Do we really have that many screwed up, depressed, immoral people living in the world?!? I mean, who "likes" a facebook post from the OM who says he was with my W for the weekend?! Messed up world we live in...
Hi Twiceburnt, my W racked up debt big time without me knowing on her replay spending, hotel rooms etc and she's still spending in replay now were divorced ,her business is going down hill,she took another guy out of a 33 year marriage because she wanted him. So 2 Unhappy Lbspouses 5 unhappy children from two broken long term marriages mine was 28 years, her mum has had several strokes and is bed bound and has to sleep downstairs, her dad has been diagnosed with dementia and she knows she's to blame for it all and shows no outward remorse. I think she needs more than a ray of hope the whole Sun I would say.
The other men and women they go with are of questionable morality for sure and people who condone their behaviour are low life's.
-
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
Hi Twiceburnt, my W racked up debt big time without me knowing on her replay spending, hotel rooms etc and she's still spending in replay now were divorced ,her business is going down hill,
Two stories that are sadly all too familiar.
I remember when I found myself at the Path Partners forum in the early days and months after BD, the advice from the guys there who had been around a while was always to secure the finances. I could barely believe what they were telling me. It couldn't be right, I was in such shock I couldn't believe W could do what they were saying she would do. But the advice turned out to be sound.
If you have a spouse that has gone right off the deep end I recommend reading up on narcissism and psychopathy and how to cope when confronted with such personalities because sadly, the LBS can find themselves dealing with something akin to a pathological, greedy, hedonistic, spiteful, callous and cruel, pleasure seeking, cunning, manipulative liar.
If the LBS gets through it and survives healthy and sane the LBS can count him or herself a success and fortunate. Whether the wayward returns or not becomes unimportant if you have recovered from the abuse, are healthy and are enjoying life again.
-
Just wanted to write of a story of a close friend of mine. I truly believe she had a MLC and after talking to her she agrees. She up and left her stable life, family, H one morning - just told her kids at the bfast table she was leaving - H naturally begged, pleaded, all of those things. It is so yucky hearing her tell of some of the things she remembers - she says she doesn't remember all of it. ANyway - he took her on a vacation to work on their marriage - she said she went b/c it was a nice place and he paid for it but she had no intiention of getting back together. Drained his bank account. Fast forward - quits her job, gets a quickie D - moves back home, marries someone much younger for less than a year - also had multiple affairs between D and marriage. She said she woke up one morning and realized what she had lost - called her ex-H to try and reconcile - he said no - he had moved on and was getting married. It is clear talking to her that she deeply regrets it - they keep in close contact b/c of kids. They are both remarried but I can tell they both still care deeply for each other. She is going on vacation with her new H this w/e to the place that she and other H went on honeymoon - she said he gets mad at her anytime she goes there and I told her that yes - it sucks from this side - and she said - she sees that now.
-
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
Hi Twiceburnt, my W racked up debt big time without me knowing on her replay spending, hotel rooms etc and she's still spending in replay now were divorced ,her business is going down hill,
Two stories that are sadly all too familiar.
I remember when I found myself at the Path Partners forum in the early days and months after BD, the advice from the guys there who had been around a while was always to secure the finances. I could barely believe what they were telling me. It couldn't be right, I was in such shock I couldn't believe W could do what they were saying she would do. But the advice turned out to be sound.
If you have a spouse that has gone right off the deep end I recommend reading up on narcissism and psychopathy and how to cope when confronted with such personalities because sadly, the LBS can find themselves dealing with something akin to a pathological, greedy, hedonistic, spiteful, callous and cruel, pleasure seeking, cunning, manipulative liar.
If the LBS gets through it and survives healthy and sane the LBS can count him or herself a success and fortunate. Whether the wayward returns or not becomes unimportant if you have recovered from the abuse, are healthy and are enjoying life again.
Honour, when were you on PP? I was there originally before it crashed the first time. This was back in 2008-2010ish if I remember correctly. I always wondered what happened to "trying222". His W was a vanisher because she was financially able to, and it hit him hard. The things she did was mind blowing...worse than my situation for sure. It crashed pretty close to when my W moved out, so I naively thought I knew enough about MLC at that point and gave up and didn't try to find help elsewhere. I might not have been in this situation if I had people to turn to for questions when she returned. Then again, with MLC...nothing is for certain.
-
I also remember two other stories. One was from PP forum, and the other was an acquaintance of my W and her real friends.
1) From PP - A guy wrote in that his W had an MLC and married the OM. 4-5 years later, she was at a wedding reception with OM, and she texted her original H about how much she hated her life, her new H was abusive, etc. and that she missed him. He had already moved on and was engaged to someone else. He didn't even respond...Karma is a B#*#$.
2) I completely forgot about this, mainly because I only heard about the tail end of it. But a mutual acquaintance of my W and her best friend (at the time - probably her real BFF) had an MLC, left her H, and pretty much slept with anything that resembled a man. A few years later, she tried to get him back, but he refused. Too much damage had been done.
So in summary, yes, I do believe most will try to come back...but it is up to us in the end. This is a lot of pain, financial destruction, etc. to get over. As much as it hurts now and how much we would give anything to have them back...eventually resentment, etc. sets in.
-
My MiL had a MLC at around 37, she started cycling with a group and started an affair with one of the guys. She went off every weekend and some holidays. After a few years she went to her H and asked that they drop their lifestyle and they can get back to being a family, thinks there was more to it than just her MLC. Her H, my FiL said she was too late he had fallen in love with another woman in the village!!! So she wanted back but he had moved on.
-
I believe I said this earlier, but I believe that it will ultimately be our decision. Hopefully our wives won't be gone long and cause too much pain and destruction. I pray that my wife comes to God for help. He can clear the fog from her mind in an instant. Our boys don't mention their mommy when they are with me, but I know they are being affected by this.
-
My XW said once...about 4 months post divorce, "I will never regret my decision to divorce you."
Was an odd thing to say since I hadn't brought that up at all or suggested she might. So she must have been thinking about it.
I said, "I sincerely hope not, otherwise all this pain you've caused me and the kids will have been for nothing."
-
Having a live in sucks and yes I think they all try to come back trouble I'd we move on the resentment grows to a level that u hate them sad very dad
-
I said, "I sincerely hope not, otherwise all this pain you've caused me and the kids will have been for nothing."
Great response!!! Love it.
-
I said, "I sincerely hope not, otherwise all this pain you've caused me and the kids will have been for nothing."
Great response!!! Love it.
You are SO bad......
-
Thank you all for your views of female mid life crisis return stories,why do they sleep around so much, it's no good for their reputations and they may catch something. It must be really embarrassing when the fog lifts and they see people are commenting on their past behaviours in a negative way.
-
Hey,...maybe THAT'S why husband is a big, fat, leaver.
or
maybe that's why it took me ten minutes to replace him. ;) lol
-
Thank you all for your views of female mid life crisis return stories,why do they sleep around so much, it's no good for their reputations and they may catch something. It must be really embarrassing when the fog lifts and they see people are commenting on their past behaviours in a negative way.
I have no idea. I think they just keep chasing the "newness" of a relationship thinking everyday is supposed to be like that until the end of time (at least while they are in teenager/fog mode). Or they keep jumping from guy to guy, hoping they find someone with all your traits because I think deep down they know they screwed up, but probably think there's no way we'd forgive them. And since they usually end up with users and losers, the cycle continues.
But, yeah, their reputation gets around. When my W and I first got back together, we got lots of people snickering, talking under their breath, etc. Women would look at me and shake their head, or if she wasn't around, ask me what I was thinking because "I could do so much better". It is tough for sure, and I can't even imagine what my W was feeling. She hid it well, but I'm sure she was embarrassed at the time. The sad part is she's making it even worse now. I was gracious enough to give her another chance, and she's doing it again. Talk about destroying your reputation....
-
Hi Twiceburnt, you did the noble thing and I'm sure everyone will appreciate that, mine was doing it for years behind my back and I knew nothing as she always seemed the perfect wife. Now my eyes are open I find it difficult to date as I'm worried about getting blindsided by someone else. Mlcer actions really damage you emotionally, it's been almost three years and no contact at all. She seems to be happy with the destruction she has caused and I live my life behind an emotional glass wall to other women.
I wish I could find closure to my pain.
-
Jackolar12, it is very hard to open up emotionally again due to the fear of it happening again. Mine was quite obvious (even though I denied that she could do that at first) when the affairs began. She certainly didn't act like a perfect wife while those were going on. But, she could have done it before in the past but didn't get an emotional connection, so she could have hid them that way I guess.
With that said though, I think we are more in tune with the signs of an affair or the potential for an affair after this. I think you'd be stronger at setting and maintaining boundaries with someone new if you choose that route, and it would be easier to move on if they cross the boundaries.
I think the only time one can find closure from this is either they come out of the fog completely and address their internal issues, or if we open ourselves up to anything that the future holds in store for us including an OP. I never really got closure either. I thought I had closure when she came back the first time, but it truly wasn't because she didn't address her issues. If I had moved on and began a new relationship, I'm not sure if I would have gotten closure either - maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure what it is going to take for me to get closure this time around.
-
Hi - I am like river birch. I had a comparatively brief MLC about 6 years ago, although the depression aspect could have begun about 3 years before the affair aspect. My H recently said that I never smiled during 2007. The background is that I convinced myself that my H did not truly care about me and was using me for my income to support college, cars and travel for his kids from his first marriage. (I met H a couple of years after that break up.). I did not appreciate that H was in a hard job and was doing what H was emotionally capable of doing to show me that he cared. But H had put me through a lot and really seemed to expect an unlimited amount from me. He was a workaholic with controlling, chauvinistic tendencies - I should do everything a housewife does AND work a full time job outside the home. AND do some largely "free" work in my profession for the wife of a colleague of his. I was exhausted and frustrated, and I had been unable to have a child. I really did not know what my place was.
I had a work colleague whose wife had kids from a prior marriage. This wife had an affair a year into their marriage, or about 2 years before I began to get close to this OM. For about a year, my colleague and I platonically commiserated in discussing our marriages. We never should have done that; we should've talked it out with our spouses or with counsellors. Moreover, OM's wife cheated on him first, and my H had not cheated on me. But I felt very intrigued by my colleague, who was very smart and interesting, and always doing something exciting. We then began a PA for a few months.
I was pretty reckless and my H figured it out fast. I viewed H's resulting frantic efforts to pay attention to me with cynicism. I could see the pain in H's eyes and in his voice, but I remember being unable to empathize with it. I did not want the life I had previously had with H. I felt H would reel me back into the same drudgery. So, I took a temporary work assignment away from home where I could see more of OM. At first, H did not confront me directly. H just turned on the attention and very much assumed the role of "my husband" - and the man I had dated and agreed to marry, who I thought was lost. H came up to near where I was geographically - to a course - and put himself in the way of the affair. H put us together on weekends, monitored me and otherwise "blocked" me from spending too much time in affair fantasy world. I began to realize how hurt H was and I was horrified. Perhaps most important, I had enough life experience to see that OM was indeed an "affair down." OM had more sophistication, broader interests and "life of the party" charm than my H, but OM's intelligence and charm did not stand up to my underlying love for my H, who at that time seemed more responsible and loyal. My H was also more physically attractive. I broke off the affair a few months after it began.
I think it is also important that I had a good amount of dating experience and married my H in my 30s. Many MLCers I read about - including my H (see below) - got married very young. My old boyfriend's mom had 3 kids during the 1950s. She was quite smart and educated, but in keeping with the times, was a SAHM. When "women's lib" rolled around, she took off for a time. It traumatized my old boyfriend for life, even tho his mom came back to his dad eventually.
Unfortunately, my H was not content just to have me back, which is what I thought he wanted - and what most of you on this thread seem to want. My H may be narcissistic, and he absolutely has a lot of childhood abuse and abandonment issues. For whatever the reason, H spun into his own MLC. Within weeks of my "return," H began a very public EA with a work colleague with whom he now shared an overseas assignment. H denies PA there, but no one believes him. I covered for that at H's work events, because I deserved the punishment. H now says that he discussed with EA OW whether H should divorce me. H does not acknowledge that raising D with his EA - and not with me - was a "come on" to see if EA would be there for H if H divorced me. EA was the Mata Hari, femme fatale type who liked being the confidante and fantasy partner of married men, but did not want them full time. So EA advised H against a second divorce. (Only this year did H reveal to me all this D talk with EA from 5 years ago.)
After H's overseas course ended, H was angry at the loss of his EA, but it seemed that H now "came back." I thought things were "fine" for a couple of years. H now says he was very angry during those years about my PA. Also, during those 2 years, I developed an illness, and H moved into a career transition, so his MLC really took off. H doesn't believe in EAs, so H says he still felt "entitled" to a PA. H started a long distance PA, and it has gone on for 3 years. H's MLC is far more like those we traditionally see on this board. Moody, immature, personality changes; cruelty; secrecy; constant lying. H appears to think I should compete with "damsel in distress" OW to make him happy. (And not bog H down with adult talk about Rs, real life, etc. So I usually lose this battle).
I found out about H's PA earlier this year. I was very angry that we had come through my PA and his EA and now he was wrecking our marriage. H initially came through with detailed plans for us to reconcile, and seemed to focus on me for a few months, but H could not tolerate any of the usual cycling upset from a betrayed spouse that I was feeling and displaying. I also had reason to suspect OW's motives, and when I voiced that, H veered straight back to OW. Sadly, I am now the one crying and hurt. About 10 days ago, H said that he had been the sentimental one in our M, not me, and that he had cried so much over me. He asked, What did I want now, a standing ovation (for crying over him)?
So this is a cautionary tale for men who want their MLC wife back. Will you be able to accept her back? If I'd known what I was going to endure - emotional torture by H - I probably would not have come back. To see H shift his sentimentality and love to this OW - who I'm sure, in his mind, has never betrayed him - is more than I can bear right now. I hope I can get over it one day. I definitely wish I could turn back the clock to 6.5 years ago.
-
Thank you so much for sharing Janus. I'm sorry for your pain :(.
I find it interesting that what got your attention was seeing your H hurt. Everything I have read says not to show the hurt to your spouse. Could this be a difference between men and women that go through MLC, or is it just isolated to individuals? I often wonder what my W would do if I showed up and confronted her and her new "friend". I know that she still cares for me otherwise she wouldn't get worried about my feelings.
-
Hi Twice burnt, I feel exactly as you describe yourself, pain looking back at the old and fear and apprehension of the new. I hope we will both find healing in the future. I suppose I'm upset with myself for not seeing things developing and stopping the affairs . You are correct with boundaries, I will be hyper vigilant in future. The damage to the family unit is immeasurable and I hope my children will not turn into ticking time bombs like their mum.
-
Hi Janus, thank you for your honest and forthright reply. I really don't know if I could stand the trauma of reconciliation but I believe after the decades invested in the relationship I should at least attempt this.
I would like my family unit to be restored but throughout this crisis I like everyone here on the forum have been shredded emotionally. Will I have the opportunity in the future and if I do will I have the energy, understanding and forgiveness to make it work, To be honest I' don't know and if it's meant to happen I'm sure God will be heavily involved in everyone's restructuring for the better.
Thank you for opening up and posting your thought and feelings and I hope you find peace.
Kind Regards Jackolar12.
-
Hi confused but trying, it's good your Mlcer is thinking of your feelings as it shows some connection, mine never gave me a backward glance.
-
Thank you for your thoughts, CBT.
If I can do anything to make up for the mess I started - which my H referred to recently as "You broke a happy man" - it will be to try to help the men here.
You say, "I find it interesting that what got your attention was seeing your H hurt. Everything I have read says not to show the hurt to your spouse."
I do think that you should err on the side of calmly going about your business in front of your W, as in the early stages she may feel contempt for your vulnerability. A cheating spouse feels empowered because someone else finds them attractive. When I initially saw my H running around frantic - bombarding me with calls & sending me flowers on a business trip, etc. - H says I replied, "Why are you sending me flowers?" I was very cynical. I believed H was trying to get me & my income "back in the fold" for more of the same treatment. I was determined to break free to spend time with OM, who was smart and the "life of the party" in a social setting. OM could always have a great conversation. I know I did not think about the consequences and was, at that early point, simply irritated by H and still angry with him. I compartmentalized. I also did NOT do a formal BD. I stayed over on a business trip and then took a work assignment out of state, but I did not make a declaration.
As time wore on, and I spent more time with OM, I saw OM more realistically. I think this happened comparatively quickly because of my dating experiences. I picked up on OM's annoying habits; our politics were polar opposites; OM took too long to do things, and OM was not as physically attractive as my H. Meanwhile, there was H, who was doing a job I admired and trying to make my life easier. H bought me a new car, working very hard to find the one that I wanted. H also brought my stepkids to see me on my work assignment and that got to me, too, because they are decent, sweet and helpful. My nasty, selfish side started to thaw a bit.
Plus, I had had no grand plan to leave H for OM. OM was also married, and I didn't think H would actually know. I came from a different background than H - grad school, living in urban settings - and I'd known people who didn't think flings were that big of a deal. I'd seen plenty of people reconcile after affairs. OM had stayed with his wife after her affair, and she wasn't too concerned with what OM was doing. But my H had a parental history of affairs breaking up marriages. H's stepdad wouldn't come to our wedding b/c he didn't want to see H's mom and the loser she cheated on him with. An affair was a terrible thing to do to H, psychologically. My current tears must be very gratifying to H.
Also, at the time of my A, H had some serious work-related events that I needed to participate in for him, and I needed to help set H up at an overseas assignment. I simply saw no path forward and I began to wind down the A. OM didn't want to, but because OM was sophisticated, OM knew that OPs have no say. That is something H doesn't get. H's family history is what made H's own affair so serious. H met a divorcee and told her that he too was going to get divorced. It's the same line that every married guy uses to start an A, but H doesn't get that. While that was 3 years ago, H still sees OW as "innocent" because H initially misled her. H seems to feel a great responsibility toward the OW that I did not towards the OM.
Finally, I did NOT understand these issues or what I needed to do for H after the A. I knew in my mind that it was over, but I still had work dealings with OM - we worked for the same co. in different states - and I was not attentive to putting H's fears to rest.
-
Thank you again for your insight Janus. I think that I speak for all of us males in the forum when I say that it is greatly appreciated. Again, I am sorry for what you are going through. I will keep you in my prayers.
-
Thank you, CBT. I will say that this brought me back to church and that is one of the bright spots in my life right now. When I asked God for forgiveness, I believe He gave it. He has also gently opened my eyes to the fact that H is going to leave for the OW and is helping me to find paths to acceptance.
I do recall that H did NOT confront me initially and give me a hard time - that happened later when H was in an EA - because H said he wasn't emotionally prepared to lose me at that time. So H's then-kindness towards me helped "pave the way" for my return, although I did not know the term then. (A cynic might say, H didn't have anyone else set up yet.) I should have used that approach with respect to H's affair, instead of getting upset and NOT "paving the way." H's decision to go back to OW has largely rested on what H calls my "beating him up" about H's affair. Given the length and cost of H's affair, I'd say that my response was fairly limited - my brother wants to kick H where it hurts - but I did not behave with dignity and grace. H said I should have simply told H to come home. Given what's gone on, it's a bit ridiculous to expect no response, but I don't recommend berating the wayward spouse. They do need to feel like it is possible to come home and that their life will not be hell if they do. Perhaps H knows that he "lured" me home with kindness and then set out for revenge, so H believes he can't safely come home now.
-
Of course God forgives. All we need to do is ask it of him. I'm glad that you are back in church now; I too have become closer to him since BD. It is one of the areas that I had become lax in these last 2 years or so and am now rectifying. I believe that this whole ordeal will work together for our good in the long run. I just pray I have the strength and patience required for that task.
-
A lot of things said resonate with my current situation. I increasingly come to believe that my W's mind she is done with her affair and she can't wrap her mind around me needing additional confirmation and ongoing support to help me find my trust in her again.
For example she doesn't see it as a big deal that she still has OM's phone number on her phone and him connected to her social media as she doesn't contact him (at least recently).
The handful people who really know about our situation all think that I should find somebody else and I there are plenty of moments where I wonder the same - however, I still believe that one day W is going to come back and I am panicked by the idea that it will be too late by then and that I will have moved on and wonder the rest of our lives whether we have missed an opportunity.
It has been a long 15 months now - but as we continue to make SLOW progress I am trying to hold on and continue to stand
-
A lot of things said resonate with my current situation. I increasingly come to believe that my W's mind she is done with her affair and she can't wrap her mind around me needing additional confirmation and ongoing support to help me find my trust in her again.
For example she doesn't see it as a big deal that she still has OM's phone number on her phone and him connected to her social media as she doesn't contact him (at least recently).
The handful people who really know about our situation all think that I should find somebody else and I there are plenty of moments where I wonder the same - however, I still believe that one day W is going to come back and I am panicked by the idea that it will be too late by then and that I will have moved on and wonder the rest of our lives whether we have missed an opportunity.
It has been a long 15 months now - but as we continue to make SLOW progress I am trying to hold on and continue to stand
Hi SS,
Her having these contact points with OM and her attitude about it all raises red flags.
Take care.
-
Hi SS, I agree with Me Now, if she's ready she would avoid all contact. Be very wary.
-
SS,
Does your W have any work connection with OM? If so, she might be unaware of how to navigate the path forward.
If not, then I agree, she is not ready. But she does need to feel safe if she moves towards home.
-
I dont have any statistics to quote, but from all the reading I have done, men just seem to move on faster! There is no one to return too when they come crawling back! Why......I believe in the end most men cannot forgive the betrayal.....especially a physical affair. I have read several times a PA is the worst betrayal and hurt a man can endure! I think this has a lot to do with the fact men pursue physically......the one thing we want most....the physical connection and bond......is willingly given to another!
I know I just got tired of the BS and was burned out mentally, emotionally and physically! It just wasnt logical to me to stand for someone who didnt love me or want me anymore! After some looking back on the marriage, and a lot of thought, I realized I was not standing for the right reasons, so I moved on and honestly, much happier for it! I have one life.....not going to waste it pining away for years on a 50/50 shot at best!
The office admin lady where I live shared her story......she divorced her husband because she was unhappy and lost feelings for him. Coupleyearslater, she remarried him because she missed him and felt she could love hi like that again. After a fewyears, their son turned 18 and the divorced for the second time. He is happily remarried, she is still single! Not sure if it was mlc or something else. Her opinion as a woman is, once a woman has lost love, she rarely if ever gains it back!
Thank you all for your views of female mid life crisis return stories,why do they sleep around so much, it's no good for their reputations and they may catch something. It must be really embarrassing when the fog lifts and they see people are commenting on their past behaviours in a negative way.
Dont know the answer but I will offer this quote from my X when I confronted EA2. I asked her did she feel like she wanted to dateand have sex with other men......her response....."I want to have sex, butnot for the sex itself.....I want to feel a connection!"
In one of Albatross threads (cant find it right now) there was an exchange between Lanzo and Albatross about women having multiple affair partners. I hope i get this right and didnt take it out of context, but, Albatross talked about the anima and animus.......and how men are mentally / biologically polygamous in nature but women are monogamous. When the MLCer flips and become opposite, this changes. Men may have multiple partners, but will have them one at a time......women will/may have multiple partners simultaniously. Hopefully one of them can come along and link that post!
Obo
-
Hi Darth Obo,
Thank you for replying and I'm happy you have moved on and are enjoying your life. I agree totally a PA is the most painful thing a man can go through it's been three years almost for me and I still get panic attacks and thoughts about what happened on a daily basis. If I don't keep my mind and body super active my thoughts return to my situation and it's wearing me down.
If she does return I don't know which way I will go with this and hopefully God will be involved with me making the correct choices, I really miss my family life, I lived for her and the children and did everything for them. I breaks my heart to see them now and I get very upset after leaving them.
There should be some law of divorce that makes the guilty party responsible for the emotional damage they cause their former spouse and provide for their recovery. Everything's split equally over here so let's hope the Karma bus will visit her and give her half my pain. Her multiple affairs and previous underhanded behaviour should be enough for me to move forward in life and not look back at her. However knowing how kind and thoughtful she used to be keeps me stuck in limbo and I really can't face being hurt again by her.
-
Will I have the opportunity in the future and if I do will I have the energy, understanding and forgiveness to make it work, To be honest I' don't know and if it's meant to happen I'm sure God will be heavily involved in everyone's restructuring for the better.
One of the keys to being able to continue your Stand is to develop and practice detachment. You can choose to get off of the emotional rollercoaster, but it takes time. If you can do that, you can gain the strength to make it for the long haul. Worry about how you will feel about her when she comes out of the fog when the time comes.
Your wife's MLC antics are not directed at you. I wouldn't say that she's not thinking of you at all, but her pain and how she chooses to try to deal with it are unrelated to how she feels about you (or may feel about you in the future). The more you read about and learn about MLC, the easier it should become to develop that detachment.
-
Hi Stillstanding,
Thank you for your reply, I've read all the site information and stuff from other sites.
I try everything possible to GAL and I've covered so much ground with this, out every night socialising .
Busy during the day, gone back to college etc. The thoughts of how cruel she was to me after bomb drop and under handedness before bomb drop have become etched in my soul and I can't seem to shake them off. I wish I could.
I've dated loads of women but feel nothing inside for them anymore and have now given this up totally for my studies and socialising and business interests. Our life was successful and stable and her revelations to the contrary have shaken me to my foundations. I was and to some point still are emotionally damaged by this and I pray God will lift this feeling from my shoulders some day. While I'm out socialising it's amazing how many people have gone and are going through Emotional turmoil, I see it now, but only because of the advice from this site and others, cheating seems to be on the increase in society today.
Kind regards
Jackolar 12
-
Her opinion as a woman is, once a woman has lost love, she rarely if ever gains it back!
It sounds to me like she's in MLC....son at 18 is the trigger (leaving home, etc.). From what I've experienced, it is quite the opposite. Every GF I've ever had who dumped me , except one (and she tries to be my friend and still flirts with me when I see her - she's friends with my sister), always came running back. I've only taken 2 back though, a previous fiance (very stupid...I was young), and my W.
Your co-worker sounds lost. Mature people realize that the "in love" feelings are just chemicals, etc. Truly being in love is a choice.
-
.
There should be some law of divorce that makes the guilty party responsible for the emotional damage they cause their former spouse and provide for their recovery. Everything's split equally over here so let's hope the Karma bus will visit her and give her half my pain.
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!
My divorce is just final a month ago. The court asks that my ex carries a life insurance for X # of years to cover me in case of his death. Instead of listing his 2 children as secondary beneficiaries, he listed is gf!!!! Go figure.!!!!
-
It depends on your state. In some states - like NC- you can sue the "alienator for - you guessed it - "alienation of affection." In some, like VA, there is no community property, there is "equitable distribution" of assets. VA has no "irreconcilable differences" grounds for divorce. To get into court quickly, the divorce must be due to adultery, which VA recognizes as intolerable. The fault grounds - like adultery, domestic violence, desertion, incarceration - determine distribution of assets.
-
Her opinion as a woman is, once a woman has lost love, she rarely if ever gains it back!
It sounds to me like she's in MLC....son at 18 is the trigger (leaving home, etc.). From what I've experienced, it is quite the opposite. Every GF I've ever had who dumped me , except one (and she tries to be my friend and still flirts with me when I see her - she's friends with my sister), always came running back. I've only taken 2 back though, a previous fiance (very stupid...I was young), and my W.
Your co-worker sounds lost. Mature people realize that the "in love" feelings are just chemicals, etc. Truly being in love is a choice.
I agree with this. Please keep in mind that what I am about to say is merely my opinion, and well you know what they say about opinions :).
I think that in order to be completely 100% detached means that you have to chose to not love that person any more; that you have to sever the emotional tie between you and your significant other. Sure, you can still care about them, but the emotional tie is gone.
I feel that complete detachment is why so many LBS don't take their MLCer back. When they say that they have "moved on" what they really mean is that they don't love them any more because the emotional tie has been severed. This is why we have to be careful with how far we go with detachment.
Jackolar: I think this is why GALing and such has not helped you with how you feel. You have chosen to remain emotionally tied to your W. You still love her.
-
Hi CBT, your spot on I love her to bits and don't want no other. Only wish she felt the same sigh......
Regards
Jackolar
-
Hi CBT, your spot on I love her to bits and don't want no other. Only wish she felt the same sigh......
Regards
Jackolar
Me too bro
-
Yep - I am in the same boat. I believe that to be able to really detach i would have to let go of what I feel for her and once that happens there is no real turning back. I might actually go very quickly from loving her to despising her - and I don't want that.
In many ways I am dreading that it comes down to a race on her coming to her senses or me just loosing "that feeling".
Having said that, according to W she was ready to call it quits last summer, and only my persistency in being around her, trying to connect to her etc. - made her even consider to work on our relationship. Yes the kids play a role but according to her that is only part of it.
The other element is that I have been careful not to judge her because of what happened. Did I complain about her hurting me, about being inconsiderate etc. -definitely. But I never caller her names or implied that she is a bad person and that see her as not being a fit mother etc. Not to burn any bridges is important to leave a return path for the wayward spouse.
-
Hi SS, we seem to have commonalities in our stand, I don't run her down as a person I just say to the children that some times good people do bad things. Can my endurance standing beat her fog, I don't know it's best left to God to sort out. All I know and feel is there is a higher power at work at this time.
Regards
Jackolar
-
Detaching has proven quite tricky. I have been able to detach from W's words and most actions. I still love her as a person but don't necessarily feel "in love" because there really is no connection between us at the moment. I have been working on deciding exactly why I'm standing but ill put that in my own thread.
-
One of the keys to being able to continue your Stand is to develop and practice detachment. You can choose to get off of the emotional rollercoaster, but it takes time. If you can do that, you can gain the strength to make it for the long haul. Worry about how you will feel about her when she comes out of the fog when the time comes.
Your wife's MLC antics are not directed at you. I wouldn't say that she's not thinking of you at all, but her pain and how she chooses to try to deal with it are unrelated to how she feels about you (or may feel about you in the future). The more you read about and learn about MLC, the easier it should become to develop that detachment.
Good stuff and a reason why the articles are so important.
-
The challenge is to balance working on the relationship and detaching. W and I are officially actively focusing on the former (albeit I have sometimes doubts about W commitment) so any detachment could be seen as giving up on that.
But I really like the line on worrying what one feels for the MLCer when they actually come out of the fog rather than now.
-
In one of Albatross threads (cant find it right now) there was an exchange between Lanzo and Albatross about women having multiple affair partners.
I can't find the thread, but I've found the quotes where I re quoted them.
As we know, the contents of the unconscious compensate our conscious attitude; since the male tends to be rather polygamous in his outward life, his anima usually appears singly. The woman on the other hand tends toward monogamy in her real life and thus reveals a polygamous trait in her soul image; which for the woman will be personified in many figures - like an assembly of fathers."
Your x wife is possessed by own shadow and animus. People possessed by shadow become opposite then their real self. MLCers are under huge influence of own shadow, woman MLCers become polygamous in MLC - means they can have in same time in parallel OM1, OM2 and so on, man MLCers become monogamous, so they can have serial OW1, OW2 and so on. But always one at the time. I believe that is the reason why woman have shorter in time MLC then man.
My xW has several OM on the go all at different stages, EA, pre-PA, PA, post-PA she really is being controlled by her shadow and animus.
Lanzo
-
Lanzo, Thanks for pulling that up! I remember trying to find that a while back and couldn't locate it!
Detaching has proven quite tricky. I have been able to detach from W's words and most actions. I still love her as a person but don't necessarily feel "in love" because there really is no connection between us at the moment. I have been working on deciding exactly why I'm standing but ill put that in my own thread.
The bold area could describe where I was around February! She had just went through a big cycle phase and pushed me back again and got really cold. Shortly after, EA2 was discovered. Right after that, I suffered the symptoms of a heart attack. When all was said and done, there was nothing physically wrong with me and determined it was caused by stress and lowered immune system!
I then had the thoughts of the underlined part! That was the nail in the coffin! I looked back on the marriage over the next couple months and saw many red flags! I looked at the current situation and my health issues, and that nailed the coffin shut! I was spent physically, mentally, emotionally and had now just endured a heart attack at age 45 as a perfectly healthy man! I decided this was no way to live; my D11 deserved to have her father and a good healthy parent!
I think that in order to be completely 100% detached means that you have to chose to not love that person any more; that you have to sever the emotional tie between you and your significant other. Sure, you can still care about them, but the emotional tie is gone.
I feel that complete detachment is why so many LBS don't take their MLCer back. When they say that they have "moved on" what they really mean is that they don't love them any more because the emotional tie has been severed. This is why we have to be careful with how far we go with detachment.
So yes, I allowed myself to start and complete the full detachment process; it was a conscious decision! Some of you may not agree with this; that's ok! We all do what we feel is right for us!
Obo
-
she really is being controlled by her shadow and animus.
Perhaps a swift kick up the animus might do 'em good. :)
-
Bringing back to the essence of jungian psych and brain function helps me maintain perspective. Great quote from Albatross.
-
I have no idea. I think they just keep chasing the "newness" of a relationship thinking everyday is supposed to be like that until the end of time (at least while they are in teenager/fog mode). Or they keep jumping from guy to guy, hoping they find someone with all your traits because I think deep down they know they screwed up, but probably think there's no way we'd forgive them. And since they usually end up with users and losers, the cycle continues.
One of the first responses I got on this forum was from Old Pilot who said my xW was stuck in a cycle of infidelity, and she would have to go down many cheeseless tunnels before she realises the problem wasn’t me or the marriage but it is her.
Here is my .02.
Yes your wife is stuck in a cycle of infidelity.
Exposing it may end this affair but it is unlikely to end her MLC.
She needs to go down every cheeseless tunnel first before she sinks to the bottom of her pit.
That may take a while.
I mean she is in love with her latest OM, but she still communicates with the OM she was F’ing last year and by communicating I mean he still sends her pictures of his co’ck asking for sex. I also saw text messages with another guy she knew before she met me, and these were also of a sexual nature. So for her, she really is stuck in this cycle, looking for newness, something exciting all the time.
I’m afraid there will be no come back success story in my case, if she ever comes out of her fog, the damage trail to my door will be too great to overcome, I certainly won’t take her back.
Lanzo
-
Damn Lanzo, I'm sorry to hear that. I know my W sent pics and vids to OM(s), but I don't know what they were. It's probably best I didn't see them. I could just tell from my cell provider's "usage" stats that they were pic/vids.
I did see some texts to OM1 and OM2. OM1 - "you broke my heart". OM2 - "do you want me now?". Still painful.
Yeah, it is completely understandable why LBSers don't take them back. The emotional pain is almost too much, plus they usually screw us financially, etc. as well.
I doubt I will take my W back again if she comes back. I highly doubt she'll do the work/seek help to fix her issues. It seems like it will be an endless cycle. Although I have no doubt I'll get a crying MLCer on my doorstep again in a few years.
-
Hi Twiceburnt,
I had to live with my MLC’er for 2 years while going through the D process and the pics on the phone are not the worse things I saw. It’s been well documented on my early thread about xW, her OM and their sex video.
Snooping is not a good thing but if I hadn’t seen the evidence for myself there would always had been a way back for xW. The door is shut now, detachment was a choice and hard to do so I went to the extreme of NC, maybe in years to come I may mellow to the point where I can have a conversation with her. But not for now, she is on her journey and I am on mine.
Lanzo
-
Wow, guess everyone is a little different. Although I don't have first hand images or videos, the sex aspect really doesn't bother me that much. Although we were very conservative throughout our 20 year relationship (11 year marriage) towards the end we got very "liberal" with our sex life.
For ME, the emotional attachment of my W to OM is a hard pill to swallow, but the BIGGEST hurdle for me to over come is the sheer destruction to our family. And the wedges just keep getting deeper and deeper. My family has been torn apart physically, financially, and emotionally. Also, me and step son 25 had a falling out. Him and his wife used to live with me, and were my wife's "moles". I fear the relationship with my ss has been obliterated. This of course has put a strain on D16s relationship with SS25 and his wife. And of course there is the strain between D16 and her mom. We went from a loving open family to almost sheer destruction in a month. Now everyone is picking sides when I have tried to tell the kids (especially the older ones) to step back and take a neutral position in this.
What a mess. For me, THAT is the part I do not believe I will ever come to terms with.
-EDIT for clarification- You might be wondering why on earth would anyone take an MLCer side...Well SS25 blames me for his mom's premature departure because although he knew what was going on, I gave her an ultimatum. He feels robbed of time with his mom and step sister because he thinks I "pushed" her out the door. He had his first child one month prior to his mom's departure. Second thing is, things were not working out in our living arrangements. I asked him to find his own place. He thinks the reason I "kicked him out" is because his mom wanted a divorce. Not true-was a stressful household, but he doesn't see it that way. And lastly, I love him to death...he is a VERY SMART individual, BUT...he is very naive, sheltered, and hate to say it but a "momma's boy", and well, our MLCer is his real mom.
-Terrified
-
I usually abbreviate the names but yours would be T.I.T...did you do that on purpose? ;D ;D ;D
Anyways, my daughter (24) has also picked the MLCers side. Both of our kids lived in the house when he left. I was a puddle to put it mildly. The kids saw their mother in a state that nobody should ever have to see. Her anger started to build and she constantly locked herself into her room. She swore that she would "never, ever lay eyes on that girl"
Well, at my FIL's funeral they were sitting next to each other chatting. In the meantime, somehow I became the enemy. She was always "daddy's girl", I was always the bad cop. He is constantly filtering her money, and I had to say no. So, at home every time I tried to talk to her, she would literally yell in my face and walk away. She was treating my son (21) the same way. I finally told her to treat me with respect or move out. I haven't seen her since july 1st when she moved out.
She lives with her (married) girlfriend and sleeps at my husbands house (who lives with his 28 yr-old-girlfriend) once a week. ???
-
I usually abbreviate the names but yours would be T.I.T...did you do that on purpose? ;D ;D ;D
LOL, I swear I did NOT do that on purpose! I work in IT, and I am VERY active on the internet (I don't do social media though-no facebook, myspace, etc), so I had to come up with something that is not the usual nickname I use, and well that is EXACTLY how I felt at the time. Could be subliminal though tee hee?!?!?
Anyway, glad to hear I am not the only one experiencing a "divide". I thought for sure my circumstances were going to be unique in that regard.
-Terrified
-
Hi Twiceburnt,
I had to live with my MLC’er for 2 years while going through the D process and the pics on the phone are not the worse things I saw. It’s been well documented on my early thread about xW, her OM and their sex video.
Snooping is not a good thing but if I hadn’t seen the evidence for myself there would always had been a way back for xW. The door is shut now, detachment was a choice and hard to do so I went to the extreme of NC, maybe in years to come I may mellow to the point where I can have a conversation with her. But not for now, she is on her journey and I am on mine.
Lanzo
I'm so sorry Lanzo. I can't imagine the pain you have experienced. Peace be with you brother.
-
Anyway, glad to hear I am not the only one experiencing a "divide". I thought for sure my circumstances were going to be unique in that regard.
I think an entire thread could discuss this issue. The destruction of the family is just more collateral damage. I know my husband does not like that our daughter moved out and won't talk to me, it just adds to his guilt.
Believe it or not, I am not too worried about it at this time.
My daughter can be VERY difficult to get along with, she has a lot of her father's traits. It has only been about four months that my husband bought the house and my daughter started visiting. My husband's girl is only 4 years older than our very very angry daughter. My daughter is use to daddy lavishing her with gifts (she just got home from costa rica on daddy's dime a few weeks before BD). My husband no longer has me to stand up to daughter and say no once in a while. My husband's girl had debt collectors calling her at work (I am friends with their co-workers). The girl will only stay quiet for so long when our daughter is looking for cash.
My son talks to my husband but he is much much closer to me. What's going to happen for the upcoming holidays? Last year, husband vanished. I heard he went out of state to meet the girls family. He is use to being the patriarch, sitting at the head of the table. He was always much closer to my side. I have 20 nieces and nephews, many were like our own children, some lived with us for a time.
Now, he is a married man with a girl half his age. I'm sure they lied to her family but it could not have been comfortable. What's he going to do this year, bring my daughter? ??
The fall-out is coming.
-
I'm already seeing a possible divide in loyalty from D11 in my favor. She has always been "Daddy's Girl" and I will admit, I do spoil her a bit (a lot? ;) ).
She has already stated to X she don't want to live with her, wants to live with me, won't accept certain things, and is basically bowing up on her! I try to temper this if I can and tell D11 she has to mind and not play us against each other, but truthfully, these kids are smart and "see" what is going on! It's only a matter of time!!
I have always been the active parent; I do all the activities with her (skating, go-karts, Amusement parks, etc...) and I take her shopping too! X never did anything like this except the occasional movies or the beach (which means D11 plays while X FB's the whole day getting her tan on). Now, she has tried to take her to do other things (recently attempted to take her to aquarium twice) and D11 basically canceled out two weekends in a row and would rather be with her friends!
Obo
-
My Ds are also heavily biased in my favor and to my knowledge, they don't even know about any OPs. God help him when that happens. They just think I am awesome and he is crazy to leave as do their friends. But then he rarely texts or calls them, just sees them once a week for a few hours.
I would think that men would be done before women; I would just see us as more emotionally invested and forgiving. Then again, we can be vicious too. I pray for everybody, though, this group of people is so special. It gives me courage to see this many people working so hard for their marriages and/or children when the world seems so messed up and based in selfish gratification.
-
...her OM and their sex video.
Holy f*&# Lanzo. Yeah, that would haunt me for eternity. I can understand why you would close the door. I'm so sorry to hear that. Although in the end, our spouses are doing the exact same things, even if they aren't on video. My imagination is enough to ruin me. I get told a lot of graphic stuff from other people that's she's done. Stuff like that you can't forget. You can't even really bury it in your subconscious.
I remember even after we were reconciling, one of her "new" friends told me some stuff I'll never forget. Granted, she turned on my W and was trying to get with me, so maybe some of it were lies. I highly doubt it though. The physical parts of the affair(s) are the worst. It is the ultimate betrayal. No wonder most of these never have happy endings - at least for the MLCer. I even heard stuff from when she was in high school recently (sexual stuff - didn't know her until years later) that are bothering me now and making me want to just drop her forever.
Their history gets out eventually. Who in their right mind would want to be with these people long term? No wonder so many of them end up single and lonely later in life. I remember they used to say that female MLCers often ended up as "cat ladies" in the end....lonely and miserable.
-
Holy f*&# Lanzo. Yeah, that would haunt me for eternity. I can understand why you would close the door.
Yep that was the video with OM#3, I also saw a text from her to OM#4 planning to video their games a few weeks after them getting together, all very distaseful. Enough time has past for me not to dwell on it but I do still get flash backs that disturb me. It’s really sad but I don’t know this person she has turned into, I really don’t want to anyway.
Out of interest though, my niece and I were chatting and we were both wondering what xW would be like if she ever came out of her fog, which way would she turn knowing that this door is shut. Would she come knocking or would she carry on regardless with whichever OM she is with at the time. Time will tell but like I said before though, I don’t see a successful female return story in my case.
Lanzo
-
...her OM and their sex video.
Holy f*&# Lanzo. Yeah, that would haunt me for eternity. I can understand why you would close the door. I'm so sorry to hear that. Although in the end, our spouses are doing the exact same things, even if they aren't on video. My imagination is enough to ruin me. I get told a lot of graphic stuff from other people that's she's done. Stuff like that you can't forget. You can't even really bury it in your subconscious.
I remember even after we were reconciling, one of her "new" friends told me some stuff I'll never forget. Granted, she turned on my W and was trying to get with me, so maybe some of it were lies. I highly doubt it though. The physical parts of the affair(s) are the worst. It is the ultimate betrayal. No wonder most of these never have happy endings - at least for the MLCer. I even heard stuff from when she was in high school recently (sexual stuff - didn't know her until years later) that are bothering me now and making me want to just drop her forever.
Their history gets out eventually. Who in their right mind would want to be with these people long term? No wonder so many of them end up single and lonely later in life. I remember they used to say that female MLCers often ended up as "cat ladies" in the end....lonely and miserable.
Haha Cat Ladies! That's pretty funny TB; I needed that! :)
-
Just keep in mind, the ray of hope isn't for us. Your MLC spouse will be begging for a ray of hope one day (or they'll continue to spiral out of control the rest of their lives). They will get a second chance if we want to accept it. Unfortunately, by that time, most of us will have moved on. Just keep living your life as if she isn't coming back...and one day, out of the blue, when you least expect it, is when they usually try to return. Then it is decision time for you...a very tough decision.
The destruction they cause is on par with a metaphorical nuke and long lasting. And it will still bite you years down the road even if you reconcile. I got stung financially recently from when she returned the first time. She wracked up tons of debt that I had no idea about.
In the end, they destroy themselves. As much pain and loneliness they cause us, it will hit them twice as hard eventually.
One thing that amazes me is the amount of people that seem to be OK with what she's doing. Do we really have that many screwed up, depressed, immoral people living in the world?!? I mean, who "likes" a facebook post from the OM who says he was with my W for the weekend?! Messed up world we live in...
Hi Twiceburnt, my W racked up debt big time without me knowing on her replay spending, hotel rooms etc and she's still spending in replay now were divorced ,her business is going down hill,she took another guy out of a 33 year marriage because she wanted him. So 2 Unhappy Lbspouses 5 unhappy children from two broken long term marriages mine was 28 years, her mum has had several strokes and is bed bound and has to sleep downstairs, her dad has been diagnosed with dementia and she knows she's to blame for it all and shows no outward remorse. I think she needs more than a ray of hope the whole Sun I would say.
The other men and women they go with are of questionable morality for sure and people who condone their behaviour are low life's.
Update on her mum (exMil), unfortunately she passed away yesterday, and I have relayed my profound grief to her husband (exFil) through my son. It is so SADDO when Mlcer behaviour takes down an innocent. She was a very nice and caring lady and I will miss her. The Ex Wife's behaviour was a cause of great stress to her, the lady was strait laced and of high moral standard and will be missed by everyone.
-
I accidentally clicked all the way to the end of the active thread list and saw this topic.
Here's one from a different site.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/213849-mid-life-crisis.html
-
Hi Everyone,
I hope I make sense with my question below...
I've noticed that 98 percent of this site is about the MLC/Leavers being men.
Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but I believe I have been searching correctly.
Is there a difference between a male MLCr and a female MLCr? My wife has done exactly to a T almost everything
all you ladies have posted about how your husbands acted, what they said, how they would be mean and re write history,
be completely out of character.... etc, etc.
I would like to think they are one in the same because I'm finding it hard to find any stories where the roles are reversed.
The wife leaves and (hopefully comes around later) I'm talking long term marriage 26 yrs -
I have been reading and writing to all you fantastic ladies but only have a few info from the male side of this living hell.
Is there any threads, personal stories about when the wife leaves (and hopefully some will be about their return as well)
If there is, it would be great to hear from you men who's wives come back.
It would also be great to hear from the women who left and returned (if your out there), what changed their mind in wanting to come back.
How long were their/your MLC and the time between you left and came back?
Did she/you divorce your husband before your came back?
If anyone knows where or if there are treads/links about this please let me know,
I'm having a hard time finding anything on this.
Thank you all -
Speed
-
Speed, if you find any information, I would be interested as well. Having been in this for over 5 1/2 years, I, too, haven't been able to find any. But this is not to discourage you from getting yourself together for either your W or perhaps someone else. Hang in there, this is not for the faint of heart!
-
Guys...I am a male survivor of this MLC Nightmare. And I have seen several others, so keep on reading. But the most important key is understanding that it really doesn't matter much...you usually just need to sub a H for a W and an OM for an OW.
Keep reading and learning here...it is a safe place to ask questions, get feedback and support and try and save yourself some bumps along the road.
Stay Strong.
BB
-
Hi Speed,
I'm not sure if this was what you needed but here are some of the men on this site.
Watcher, MyBrainIsBroken, hawk, Thundarr, Terrified-In-TN, STP, UrsaMajor, Bailmor, Old Pilot, Romans 5:8, Dog Walker, albatross, Sisyphus, GTurk, BBhelp (thanks BB).
I'm sure I'm missing some. They all don't post often, but their out there. You're not alone...and no I don't see a big difference between men and women MLCer's.
-
Gentlemen, I suspect some of the "lack of male posts" is because our society does not encourage men to talk about things. We have some brave souls on the forum who are seeking help, as Thunder pointed out.
(No male bashing here, by the way :)
My cousin's wife left him, due to MLC. He went to a counselor, but the counselor did not believe in MLC. This was 12 years ago. Instead my cousin moved a new woman in. He just told me recently he cares about her, but it was huge mistake. He warned me to let myself heal no matter what happens.
I also have a dear friend who went through MLC and she did return to her H.
From what I have seen it looks like the MLC antics are very similar no matter what gender and the LBS responses and feelings also similar.
-
BBhelp,Thunder, MourningDove.
BBhelp:
What do you mean "a survivor." Are you back together? Did you actually divorce?
Is there a link I could read your story and where your are at now.
Thunder and MorningDove:
I have read that women MLCr's do not come back like male MLCr's do.
I just found out my timeline to "D" just got shorter, so I am in panic mode.
I'm trying to stay as calm as possible.
I don't even know what to say or if I should say anything
the day I get word that "D" is final. -
This is the most horrible feeling -
Thanks,
Speed
-
Speed. just refresh your screen by hitting the Home button under your Hello speed racer picture.
Then you can scroll down and see the various posts.
-
Speed Racer,
I've been at this for a while myself: this week is the 7th anniversary of the initial bomb drop, and Sunday will be 6 years since she moved out. I don't post a lot, but I do read and comment on others' stories and try to offer advice (or point to people smarter than I am about this stuff).
I'm 100% convinced that my wife is in an MLC. The behavior isn't exactly the same as the male MLCers described here, but I got the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech; she was involved in an online emotional affair that very likely turned physical—she went and visited him before she moved out, and after she moved out I found evidence that they met at least once before the first BD. I don't know where things stand with them now. If she's still in contact with him or seeing him, no one else in her life has noticed. Her side of the family knows nothing of what is going on since she moved out—I don't think they even know, because I still get mail addressed to her at the house.
She's forgotten and rewritten history; I don't think she realizes how much time has passed since she moved out, because I pointed out that something she though only happened 2-3 years back actually happened over 8 years ago! I haven't gotten the monster since she left, but we had a couple of pretty bad fights before that.
The best thing you can do for yourself right now is to develop detachment. Learn to recognize and understand that her crisis isn't an attack on you. Also, take care of yourself both physically and financially. If you need to separate your finances, do it. Develop clear boundaries to help protect yourself from her Monster, or doing things to harm the marriage (running up joint credit cards or withdrawing money from bank accounts).
I don't like it when people say that "your marriage is over"—that's scary to read for someone who had just been hit with the bomb drop. But, I do believe that until your wife progresses through her MLC, you can't work on healing your marriage. If she were in the hospital after a bad car accident, you wouldn't ask her to do housework or go to your parents' anniversary dinner, would you?
However, many MLCers do get divorced. They're searching for something they feel they have lost, so they discard parts of their lives they think are holding them back. Maybe they're having an affair and feel that the other person is their true soulmate. Or, they think they are doing you a favor by freeing you up to find someone new, so they can feel less guilty about hurting you. In some cases, a left-behind spouse may seek divorce to protect themselves and their families financially. Divorce might be the end of the old marriage but it doesn't have to be the end of the relationship. You can choose to continue to Stand if you think things can still be reconciled once she's done.
-
Sorry StillStanding I forgot to add you and Braveheart to the list of men.
Great advice!
-
Hi Speed.
I'm man but in touch with my feminine side so happy to talk about my experience and feelings. LOL..
My blog is under "Help! Do I have a MLCer? Part..."
My W is deep in her tunnel. The Hurt and pain both me and my 2 sons have experienced(22+25) over the last 10months since bomb drop has lead me to move on and the boys have a very distant relationship with there mum now. All contact is on her terms when she has time for them or is on a guilt trip. She has told all of us on numerous occasions we are not so important to her and her new life with an alco spending her late mothers inheritance(So far £22k mainly on clothes, booze and pub visits) is her future. We have become a stronger family now. At some point she will come out of it and we will cross that bridge then. Feel free to PM if you want and I can help.
The best advice I got here which took me 9months to accept is "Your marriage that you had is now over. Accept it and build a new life" Since I accepted that life has got easier and we have all began to laugh and live again.
Best of Luck mate
Dogwalker
-
BBHelp, I truly apologize when earlier I stated that I wasn't aware of any males coming through this as an LBS. I, for one, want to say that I am truly thankful for all your information and insight into this horrible ailment. I have read your entire thread and recommend any LBSer (whether male or female) to read and understand what you have gone through.
So, speedracer, find BBHelp's thread and read the entire thing to get a better understanding. Hope this helps.
-
Thunder, Stillstanding, dogwalker
Thank you Thunder -
Stillstanding and dog walker:
I have been taking care of myself, working out 5 times a week.
My appetite is back but I now watch myself (lost 30lbs on accident
and going to try to keep it off).
Financially, we have already been through mediation and I have refinanced
the home / split my 401k heavily on her side to come to a 50/50 agreement
on finances. We split the kids 50/50 also. It kills me. It’s like I am the
only person in her life that she is not happy with. No one else is blamed or
treated any differently - just me. (she has started talking differently with our
12 yr old daughter - different pet names for her that she never used before and the
baby like mannerisms that she now talks to our daughter with).
Thunder given me ways to distance but keep present.
She told me to let them initiate whatever the contact may be, and be light and friendly - Great advice… I hope my poker face don’t spoil it. I don’t know how I can “look” happy without seeming like I’m putting on a mask.
I believe that the both of you
(Stillstanding and dog walker) would like to “R” if possible?
What are your suggestions on the amount of detachment?
Thunder, I’m not sure if you never want to remarry him or if your just not sure if
he is through with his crisis…
Thanks again everyone,
Speed
-
Bailmor:
Yes I seen BBhelp's postings earlier today. Marked them and will be re- reading everything from today - tonight before bed
and all is quiet.
I apologies to everyone if I seem to ask the same questions in different ways.
Most of the time I do completely forget because I am also in my own "fog type" state at times.
Sometimes I will ask them a different way because it may get different people to post their story, perspective or insight on that particular question.
Thanks to all always,
Speed
-
Hi Speed,
I'm another Man in the same boat, I've had a pretty tough twelve months of crazy... my thread is I think I am Mad, and I'm sure you will unfortunately find lots of similarities.
I post less but around if you need any help or advise
Head Spinner
-
Thank you Head Spinner
I going to check it out now.
Thank you,
Speed
-
Speed, our situations are very different. I'm older than you and have raised my kids. They are all adults and married now with children of their own.
Also I was married before. I was fortunate enough to get 2 MLCer's. ::) One was 38, the other 46.
I'm just at a point in my life where I don't want to get married again. I love my MLCer very much but it was him who wanted to get married, not me. So I'm fine being single.
You are in a different time in your life. You still have kids and you're relatively young. I would expect if your W doesn't come out of this you will marry again.
But I don't want to put the cart before the horse. You still want to reconcile your marriage and it may happen. Just keep hope in your heart but please protect yourself financially (which sounds like you did) and emotionally.
I would just let your W go for now. Concentrate on you and your kids. Make your life as happy as you can with out her in it.
I know how hard that is but it's all you can do right now.
-
Thank you Thunder for everything.
We were late parents. I am 50 -
I'm no spring chicken, but then I'm a proud father to a 12 and 18 yr old children.
If that is your profile photo, you look to young to be have grown children, let along be a grandparent....Lol
Thanks again,
Speed
-
I've merged your thread into our existing one about female MLCers return stories.
-
Sorry StillStanding I forgot to add you and Braveheart to the list of men.
Great advice!
I'm not around a lot, so it's easy to overlook me! :)
-
I believe that the both of you
(Stillstanding and dog walker) would like to “R” if possible?
Yes. I believe that we can work things out still, but not until after she's finished her MLC.
What are your suggestions on the amount of detachment?
So, detachment doesn't have anything to do with limiting contact. Detachment is about learning manage your emotional responses to your wife's behavior.
When it comes to detachment, I have an old article bookmarked: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/
I also have some more from Psychology Today—hopefully the links are all valid:
- Better Living through Cognitive Dissonance (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200911/better-living-through-cognitive-dissonance)
- Disarming The Jealousy Complex (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201003/disarming-the-jealousy-complex)
- Love without Hurt: Boot Camps for Compassion (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200806/love-without-hurt-boot-camps-compassion)
- Marriage and the Power to be Happy (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200905/marriage-and-the-power-be-happy)
- Victim Identity: I'm Not Okay, You're More Not Okay (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/201002/victim-identity-im-not-okay-youre-more-not-okay)
- What Kind of Partner Do You Want to Be? (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200909/what-kind-partner-do-you-want-be)
About contact levels, there are several ways to go about it. I would say that your level of contact should be what you are comfortable with. If being in contact is stressful for you—hearing about her Replay antics or actions with OM—then you can tell her that until he's no longer in her life, you aren't going to respond to her attempts at contact (aside for financial or family-related issues).
I would read RCR's articles on contact levels:
- http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels.html
- http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels_dim-and-dark.html
- http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels_no-contact.html
-
Thank you for the article links, SS. Very helpful reminders!
-
I haven't posted in a while, but I do think that most MLC women do try to come back eventually. Mine did, but she came back before she completed the MLC journey, and I fell for it (and paid for it).
If it matters, my ex-W rarely ever takes her S12, or visits with her D19. Her D19 (my step daughter) still lives with me. I pay for her cell phone, co-signed on her car loan, and help pay for her car insurance. Her mother (my ex-MLC wife), doesn't really help out at all. I can legally cut my SD off from everything, but I won't since I helped raise her since she was 2 yo. I know how hard it is to afford college.
There are rumors floating about that my ex and her OM broke up, or are fighting at the least. He kicked her out of his house so he could rent it out (he took a job out of state...supposedly temporarily). As crazy as this sounds, I hope they get back together/work things out so I don't have to deal with it....or a possible second return.
All I can say is hang in there and live your life. They may come back, and they might not. Chances are, you'll have moved on and won't want them back when the time comes anyhow.
-
Hi Thunder,
You posted earlier in this threat a whole bunch of men who post on this sight about their wifes coming back.
Is there anyway I can search their "names" and find their stories/timelines
Thank you Thunder
Speed
-
Hi Thunder,
You posted earlier in this threat a whole bunch of men who post on this sight about their wifes coming back.
Is there anyway I can search their "names" and find their stories/timelines
Thank you Thunder
Speed
Speed,
I guess Thunder missed this...For the record, I think she only listed the MALE posters she could think of-not necessarily ones that have had their wives come back. There are a couple here, but they are very rare.
As to how to search...toward the top of the screen you will see a horizontal menu: Home Help Search Admin Profile...etc....Under the Members menu item you can search member names there.
-T
-
Darn it....I should have added this:
I know in the beginning we ALL want to know the odds. That's pretty normal. It is perfectly normal to want to ask "How many male LBSes have had successful Rs"? You will not find any statistics. But from everything I have found the answer is not many at all. The chances are extremely slim.
I do not want to discourage you however. I honestly feel a BETTER question would be "How many male LBSes have had their MLCer *ATEMPT* a return?" I would be willing to bet that second question would be a LOT.
As I mentioned in another thread, everyone has their "line in the sand" or "deal-breakers". For a lot of men, infidelity is it. I think that is why you don't see very many return stories with MLC women. No one REALLY knows, but I will bet that many of them do TRY to return, only to find its too late.
-T
-
LOL, 3 replies in a row...I must be losing it...
A final thought (and this is important, and why I didn't just add it to my previous reply; I don't want it to get missed):
It has been said VERY often, but I have not seen it mentioned in a while...and this goes for both male AND female MLCers: Chances are very high that the DECISION to R will ultimately be up to the LBS.
Let that sink in...
Every situation is unique. There are NO guarantees. Not everyone will TRY to come back. But most do TRY.
-T
-
I also believe a lot has to do with the LBS. My W has thrown me out numerous times in 15 months. She has left and come back. I have left another 6 or 7 times on my own accord. She has probably invited me back 4 times.
In her MLC mindset she is very frustrated when I leave. She sees it as me rejecting her. She has complained that I do not want to be there and that I have given up on the marriage. She is done chasing me and will never ask me to come back again. Again, this is the MLC mindset but it probably hurts the situation.
There are also different variables at play. I have two boys that are relatively young and keeping her in place. My Dr agrees that they are the key for all of us surviving this MLC. Secondly, OM has no interest. If he had interest, then things would probably be different.
Finally, finances play a huge role here. We have been fortunate to have support from both sides of our families. Without that support, I would have had to file already. It's unfortunate but finances do eventually force a person to make a decision.
-
I know initially its difficult to separate happiness from spouse returning but I think the best question to ask is this: How many LBS go on to regain their happiness after a few years? I would guess the vast majority do! IMO one of the best things we can do is to ask what it is we REALLY want? I think at a base level for many the answer would be happiness. We equate happiness with our spouse because we were happy with them. Read studies about baseline happiness and you will see that within 5 years of a life changing event, most people revert back to the level of happiness they had prior to the event. As is pointed out in the articles, it is our responsibility to pull ourselves up out of this mess. Is it really any different when we tie our happiness to the person in mlc than when they tie their happiness to om/ow? Yes, I used the word happiness 8 times in 1 paragraph!
-
I know initially its difficult to separate happiness from spouse returning but I think the best question to ask is this: How many LBS go on to regain their happiness after a few years? I would guess the vast majority do! IMO one of the best things we can do is to ask what it is we REALLY want? I think at a base level for many the answer would be happiness. We equate happiness with our spouse because we were happy with them. Read studies about baseline happiness and you will see that within 5 years of a life changing event, most people revert back to the level of happiness they had prior to the event. As is pointed out in the articles, it is our responsibility to pull ourselves up out of this mess. Is it really any different when we tie our happiness to the person in mlc than when they tie their happiness to om/ow? Yes, I used the word happiness 8 times in 1 paragraph!
For the people where who are choosing to Stand, it's not just about our own happiness—it's about making a commitment to work on our marriages, no matter how bad it gets.
The statistics for divorce show that people aren't always happy upon finding a new spouse: the divorce rates for second and third marriages are higher than those for first marriages. Also, divorce is harder on children than people want to believe. People say things like "they're young, they'll adjust" but that's not always the case.
I found this infographic a while back...
(http://www.dailyinfographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/divorce2-640x2670.jpg)
-
Still - you can be happy and still stand for your marriage. I would guess that it is actually easier that way AND makes one more attractive. Also, we can only work on our marriage when the other person agrees to do the same. For most of us, that is not the case at the moment. Personally, my xw lives with om and we have been divorced for a year. What is someone in my shoes to do? I choose to focus on being a great dad and pursuing activities that I enjoy. I choose to remain open to all possibilities, which may not be traditional standing, but I haven't definitively closed the door.
-
DJi76 and everyone else reading:
DJi76: "you can be happy and still stand for your marriage.
I would guess that it is actually easier that way AND makes one more attractive."
Wow, great way to look at the situation.
This is how I want to live my situation...
I don't know how you get over the pain and all the hurt? I do keep myself busy and try not to
dwell with this curve ball in life. - But somehow the curve ball comes back around often.
Your wrote:
"I choose to remain open to all possibilities, which may not be traditional standing, but I haven't definitively closed the door."
I need some advice how communicate with her while standing and trying to leave the door wide open. How should I act
when I see her in person? how do I act if she ever start to call? Right now communication is via texting and it is usually
her texting me about our kids. "Do you want me to drop them off / pick them up" type of text. I haven't texted her directly for about
2.5 months. (After she moved out to her very expensive townhouse)
I'm confused how to act - I have no experience with this. How can you seem happy when you know deep inside how aweful
the whole thing is?
Any suggestions on how to approach contact under these situations?
1. Actually seeing her in person in any circumstances.
2. If she calls me - which she doesn't really do - last week she called my cell, but I didn't have it with me.
3. Texting - (right now as I said above, I do not text her. When she text me, I answer with short as possible answers.
Thank you,
Speed
-
I would suggest this book which is an absolute classic
WOMEN IN MID LIFE CRISIS BY JIM CONWAY
Jim and Sally Conway have learned, from observing many women they have pastored and counseled, that the majority of women in midlife suffer a bewildering and crushing array of physical, emotional, and spiritual stresses. Only in recent years has the midlife crisis been identified and addressed by counselors, pastors and doctors. Now available in mass paper, Women in Midlife Crisis is a carefully researched, compassionate volume of encouragemant and direction for women coping with midlife.
Jim Conway holds a PhD., DMin., plus two masters degrees. He is the author/co-author of 14 books and over 150 articles on marriage and family issues - specializing in Midlife Crisis. Jim is the former co-speaker on the national daily radio program heard on over 200 stations entitled "Midlife Dimensions" plus, he has appeared on hundreds of other radio and TV programs. Jim has pastored churches for over 25 years, was the director of the Doctor of Ministry program and Associates Professor at Talbot Seminary, CA, and is currently the President of Midlife Dimensions, a counseling ministry, and he continues to write, lead seminars, and counsel people worldwide. His website is www.midlife.com.
I think it was written in 1998. As well as RCR's articles, DontGiveUp also found Conway's writings to be dead on.
-
Speed, my bd was 2 yrs ago and ive been divorced for a year... It takes time to heal my friend. As time passes and you construct the life you want for yourself, that curve ball of pain comes arounf less often.
I really cant tell you how to act. As you heal it will become more natural. I never went NC partly because we have small children but mostly because I wanted to remain in contact with her. Personally, I dont think you want to leave the "door wide open". I think you want to work on closing it but not locking it. I am very comfortable where I am at and have no problem telling her that i still care about and love her. In fact, i did that 2 weeks ago. I know it made her uncomfortable but I am not hiding from my truths. Im not saying I want her back, my love for her now is more agape than anything and I have no problem expressing it.
Hope this helps a bit. There is no "right or wrong". The best advice I can give is work on healing and stay true to yourself.
-
I don't know how you get over the pain and all the hurt? I do keep myself busy and try not to
dwell with this curve ball in life. - But somehow the curve ball comes back around often.
It takes time. Look at the stuff that I posted in my earliest threads—any of it sound familiar? :)
You have the advantage: if your wife is having an MLC then she's not capable of seeing the long-term effects of her decisions, while you can consider the effects of yours. You also have the advantage of knowing that her MLC will take years to work itself out. If you believe that you can work things out once your wife is done with your MLC, then you need to save your energy for when that day comes.
I need some advice how communicate with her while standing and trying to leave the door wide open. How should I act
when I see her in person? how do I act if she ever start to call? Right now communication is via texting and it is usually
her texting me about our kids. "Do you want me to drop them off / pick them up" type of text. I haven't texted her directly for about 2.5 months. (After she moved out to her very expensive townhouse)
I'm confused how to act - I have no experience with this. How can you seem happy when you know deep inside how aweful
the whole thing is?
Sometimes, you have to "fake it until you make it". You might have to smile and say "Hey, it's good to see you but I have to get home" or "I'm meeting up with friends so I can't stay to visit" and take off.
The next thing to do is actually find things to do to fill your days and weeks. You have an opportunity to do the things you've wanted to do or make time for, without having to worry about whether your wife is going to give you grief about staying out late. Is there a restaurant you've wanted to try? Go for it! Have your friends invited you over to watch sports? Now is a great time to reconnect with them.
Are you a churchgoing man? If so, see if you can find a pastor or minister to talk to—someone who will be motivated to helping you protect and heal your marriage. Or confide in a trusted friend who will support your choice to Stand. You can express your frustration or anger and try to work through it without taking it out on your wife.
Any suggestions on how to approach contact under these situations?
1. Actually seeing her in person in any circumstances.
2. If she calls me - which she doesn't really do - last week she called my cell, but I didn't have it with me.
3. Texting - (right now as I said above, I do not text her. When she text me, I answer with short as possible answers.
1. It depends on the circumstances. If you bump into her at the post office or grocery store, well, you're running errands and can't chat. If you have both been invited to a friends' house or party, be polite, make as little small talk as you can and spend time talking to others. Remember, she is the one who moved out on you. Until she makes up her mind what she wants, you aren't going to be 100% available to her.
2. Again, it depends on why she is calling. I wouldn't go out of the way to let her make small talk with you, but if she's calling because of something to do with the kids, then take the call. You can always let it go to voice mail and return the call; if she asks why you didn't answer, you just didn't get to your phone in time.
3. It sounds like you've got it right. Strive to be polite and friendly yet reserved.
If she asks you about the marriage or the divorce, there are two things you can say:
1) Do you really think we're going to get back together? "I believe that we can make this work still, but I can't make you stay in a relationship you don't want."
2) You should find someone else who can make you happy! "I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet." (AND THAT'S ALL! No vague threats or ultimatums.)
People who want out of a marriage—whether they are MLCing or not—have convinced themselves that the relationship is unsalvageable. Your character flaws or habits are never going to change, or the fact that you are stressed at work and grumpy when you get home, or you never have sex anymore, make her life unbearable. If you cry and beg and plead when she talks about leaving, you're actually reinforcing those negative feelings about the relationship. (Did you ever break up with a woman and have her cry and scream at you to stay? Was that behavior attractive or compelling?)
So the first thing you can do is do what the "divorce busters" at Michele Weiner-Davis' site call a "180". Is there something about your life that you don't like? Here's a great opportunity to work on that! You're already working out and getting in shape; that's a great place to start. If you can change a couple of those things—especially if they're something that also frustrates and annoys her—then you start chiseling away at her new perception of the marriage.
Remember, though, that much of this effort is going to be wasted while she is MLCing and/or having an affair. So what you're focusing on with your 180s is making those changes, and making them stick. When she comes out of the tunnel and looks back to see where you are, do you want her to see a sad, angry, bitter, man? Or a happy, confident, attractive one?
If she asks why you're so hard to get hold of, just tell her you've been busy. It helps if you really have been busy, spending time with friends or working on projects. Those friends—and your kids, for that matter—can push this idea of the "new you" much more convincingly than you can just by yourself.
I posted about the Stockdale Paradox earlier: we are living in a good example of one. On one hand, you may believe with all of your heart that the time will come when she will want to reconcile with you. On the other, you have to accept and live with the fact that she doesn't want to be with you right now, and live your life accordingly.
-
Also, what xyzcf said!
I would suggest this book which is an absolute classic
WOMEN IN MID LIFE CRISIS BY JIM CONWAY
Jim and Sally Conway have learned, from observing many women they have pastored and counseled, that the majority of women in midlife suffer a bewildering and crushing array of physical, emotional, and spiritual stresses. Only in recent years has the midlife crisis been identified and addressed by counselors, pastors and doctors. Now available in mass paper, Women in Midlife Crisis is a carefully researched, compassionate volume of encouragemant and direction for women coping with midlife.
Jim Conway holds a PhD., DMin., plus two masters degrees. He is the author/co-author of 14 books and over 150 articles on marriage and family issues - specializing in Midlife Crisis. Jim is the former co-speaker on the national daily radio program heard on over 200 stations entitled "Midlife Dimensions" plus, he has appeared on hundreds of other radio and TV programs. Jim has pastored churches for over 25 years, was the director of the Doctor of Ministry program and Associates Professor at Talbot Seminary, CA, and is currently the President of Midlife Dimensions, a counseling ministry, and he continues to write, lead seminars, and counsel people worldwide. His website is www.midlife.com.
I think it was written in 1998. As well as RCR's articles, DontGiveUp also found Conway's writings to be dead on.
-
Hi everyone,
I've just been writing for about 30 min and my reply just vanishied....
I have to go to bed, but I will re write it hopefully tomorrow.
Thank you all for your awesome replies.
You are the best,
Speed
-
Speed, don't you hate when that happens? You put all that effort in and..poof!
Well get some good rest. We'll still be here tomorrow.
Night
-
XYZCF, DJ, StillStanding,Thunder - Thank you all
I don’t believe I will be married very much longer.
My wife received the paperwork to file - (I always told her that I do not want this, I told her
that I would not stand in her way from being happy, I told her I would sign anything - do anything
needed for her to be happy, - BUT I would not file for my marriage to end.)
I told her that I hate the word “Divorce” and “Dissolution” - but these words are at my
front door now.
She will have to file with the county clerk and then it shouldn’t take long after that.
She has had the paperwork for more than a week now and I don’t know if or when she will file.
XYZCF: I just called Barnes and Noble,
They do not have that book, the have one “Men In Mid Life Crisis”
Where can I get the “Women In Mid Life Crisis” book?
Thanks XYZCF
DJ:
How much in-person contact do you have and how much do you communicate by phone or texting with your wife/ex?
I’m curious how you let her know you still care and love her.
Do you initiate all contact with her? phone calls, text.
If you do, is it just business like about the kids, or is it on a more personal level?
My wife seems to want as little contact with me as possible.
And I am worried if I would text her something like “I was just thinking
about you, I want you to know I still care and love you. I hope your doing
well” she would go ape shhhht and distance herself further away.
Since I, been on Hero Spouse, I have tried to unattached.
I don’t see my wife very much. I don’t text her - I usually reply to
the text she sends me.
I haven’t initiated any contact with her for about 2.5 months now and but I do
answer her text. In the beginning of my ordeal, I told her I would never stop telling her that I loved her - and I did for a long time. Even after she moved out about 3 mo ago. At first, she would just say “I know”. Later on, she would get mad
and I would reminder that I would never stop telling her how much she means to me. Eventually, she started to get the “whatever” look. And right after she moved out,
I sent flowers to her work with a card that said “just thinking of you”. She sent me a angry email telling me to never - ever send anything like that to her work again -
we are no longer a couple or family…” (I normally did this on BDays, Anniversarys….)
After that, I just kind of stopped. I guess I was loosing faith that our relationship
could be saved. She obviously didn’t want to have anything to do with me.
Am I wrong for not telling her I care? Am I wrong for not initing contact - only answering
when being spoken or texted to?
My wife never calls at all. She only text about the kids. “do you want me to
pick them up or are you bringing them” type or text messages.
I still trying to figure out a good balance for this.
Should I communicate more from my end? Text about the kids or anything to do with them
and possibly my in-laws?
I am just plain confused - and I don’t understand
how to communicate in this environment.
It just seems weird to me that we always communicated great about everything,
we got along great, did everything together - and now it is strange to have
some sort of “transparent wall” with her.
StillStanding:
Thanks for the suggestions on how to act with her.
This is what I would have done on my own, but I just don’t get
how “Detaching and these suggestions” can work together hand in hand?
You asked if I am a Church going guy.
I believe in God, but I have never been a Church going guy. I pray and talk to him on my
own - when I need him, but no I am not a practicing Church member. What is between God and
me is just that.
The funny thing is that my wife grew up very close with her Church.
From the time she was a little girl to her late teens, she was very active
with her Church. I was so proud when her Paster (whom she grew up) married us in
front of our family and friends.
She stopped going to Church when she was around 18 but still did the larger services
Christmas, Easter…. When she started acting out of character last Sept, she blamed me
for not bring our children up “in the Church.” In Dec she actually started to go to Church 1.5 months before BD. I told her that I would like to go with her and support her. I told her that we
could make it a family day - Get up, go to Church, go out afterwards for lunch. etc…
Happened once and then she just didn’t go anymore -
You commented on character flaws:
My wife and I got along great. Sure, we had arguments every so often. We did have a few
larger arguments - maybe 4 in our 26 year marriage. - Our MC told us that we “were a normal
relationship.” That there was nothing that would make them think we needed to “D.”
When I am stressed out at work, I don’t bring it home. Home is where that stress
is not. Home is a place of safety, enjoyment. I always told her how much I love her. I kissed
her, hugged her everyday until she put a stop to it. Sex was no problem - on my end.
My wife is the one who slowed that to a halt.
Wow, I hope I made some sort of sense in all that….
Anyway - Thank you all for everything.
If (anyone reading) could give me some insight to “your” communication level with your MCL.
Do you talk - in person or phone?
If so, is all business with Kids or is it on a personal level/small talk.
Do you communicate like this when you text or email as well?
This goes out to all LBS who are standing - divorced or not.
Thanks,
Speed
-
Hey Speed, to answer your questions:
1. How much contact - My x monstered HARD for 12 months, I mean just terrible. During that time contact was pretty limited. Since the divorce we text probably 3-4 days per week, usually about the kids. Occasionally we text about other stuff. More recently we have been having hour long conversations every 2-3 weeks that are not about the kids.
2. How do I let her know I care - I just say it. "I still care about you" and give her a hug when shes crying. I told her i love her 2 weeks ago. Keep in mind i am divorced and not tied to a specific outcome. I dont care if what i say scares her and she distances, which is often the case. I know in my heart I care about her and im comfortable with my feelings. After she distances she usually initiates contact within 10 days. She tells me she cares about me and is still confused, but feels she need to continue on this path. I never ask her about getting back together cuz i dont even know if thats what i want. She brings it up then shoots it down all on her own lol.
3. Do i initiate and what do we discuss - I only initiate when absolutely necessary. Our long conversations happen when exchanging the kids or dropping off their things. Ill detail our last few exchanges and what brought me back here on my thread.
-
XYZCF: I just called Barnes and Noble,
They do not have that book, the have one “Men In Mid Life Crisis”
Where can I get the “Women In Mid Life Crisis” book?
Thanks XYZCF
Try Amazon? They have cheap used copies. https://www.amazon.com/Women-Midlife-Crisis-Jim-Conway/dp/0842383794/
-
Abe Books is also a good option for this title.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Conway&sts=t&tn=Women+in+Midlife+Crisis
StillStanding, I just wanted to add a thanks to you for the links you provided earlier in this thread. The author of the blog is excellent. I had purchased his book on loving and living after betrayal on my Kindle a while ago, and want to thank you for providing the spark to actually go back and read it. ::)
-
XYZCF, DJ, StillStanding,Thunder - Thank you all
I don’t believe I will be married very much longer. My wife received the paperwork to file - (I always told her that I do not want this, I told her that I would not stand in her way from being happy, I told her I would sign anything - do anything needed for her to be happy, - BUT I would not file for my marriage to end.)
I told her that I hate the word “Divorce” and “Dissolution” - but these words are at my front door now.
She will have to file with the county clerk and then it shouldn’t take long after that. She has had the paperwork for more than a week now and I don’t know if or when she will file.
That is her burden to bear. You know it's coming, but let her figure the rest of it out. Just just because you get divorced, it doesn't mean it has to be the end of the story. My wife told me when she moved out that I could expect divorce papers within a few weeks; that was 6 years ago, and nothing has been done towards a divorce.
You asked earlier about people who split up and got back together? Actually, my parents did just that. Between the time I proposed to my wife and our wedding, my parents got divorced (my dad was have a long-distance EA) and remarried, once he realized that the reality of life with the OW wasn't what he thought it would be.
My wife seems to want as little contact with me as possible. And I am worried if I would text her something like “I was just thinking about you, I want you to know I still care and love you. I hope your doing well” she would go ape shhhht and distance herself further away.
That is a reasonable concern (especially given what you say below). She is already on her way out the door; saying these things right now does not convey what you want it to convey.
She wants her space. By pursuing her, you are actually reinforcing her desire to leave; she thinks that leaving you will make her happy—if it's MLC then she's wrong, because the crisis is within her.
I haven’t initiated any contact with her for about 2.5 months now and but I do answer her text. In the beginning of my ordeal, I told her I would never stop telling her that I loved her - and I did for a long time. Even after she moved out about 3 mo ago. At first, she would just say “I know”. Later on, she would get mad and I would reminder that I would never stop telling her how much she means to me. Eventually, she started to get the “whatever” look. And right after she moved out, I sent flowers to her work with a card that said “just thinking of you”. She sent me a angry email telling me to never - ever send anything like that to her work again - we are no longer a couple or family…” (I normally did this on BDays, Anniversarys….)
After that, I just kind of stopped. I guess I was loosing faith that our relationship could be saved. She obviously didn’t want to have anything to do with me.
That is entirely true—for now. Listen to what she says, and respect her boundaries. Like I said in the DB coaching post I made, you want her to understand that this is a serious problem in your relationship, and that you will give her the space she wants to figure things out. All of your attempts to reinforce how you feel may actually be fueling her desire to proceed with the divorce!
Am I wrong for not telling her I care? Am I wrong for not initing contact - only answering when being spoken or texted to?
My wife never calls at all. She only text about the kids. “do you want me to pick them up or are you bringing them” type or text messages.
Nope! You're giving her space to think.
Should I communicate more from my end? Text about the kids or anything to do with them and possibly my in-laws?
Have you ever broken up with a woman (or girl, as a teenager) because you just weren't into her, or she did something to piss you off or hurt you? How would you feel if she kept calling you, or sending you love notes? This is exactly what you are doing to your wife right now.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INITIATE CONTACT. Unless it has to do with child care arrangements, financial matters, or the divorce proceedings, leave her alone.
Speed, I totally get it. I was one of those people who felt like, if I could just show her how much I care, she'd understand. But that's not how breakups work. She has rewritten history in her mind to place all of the blame on you. The best thing you can do is give her time to realize that you aren't the problem in the relationship.
I am just plain confused - and I don’t understand how to communicate in this environment.
It is very counterintuitive; everyone's first impulse when the bomb is dropped is to beg for another chance, or pursue the walk-away spouse. But it almost never works. Until she wants to try to reconcile with you, there's nothing you can do.
Find and read a copy of Women in Midlife Crisis. Try reading "The Divorce Remedy" from Michele Weiner-Davis as well.
It just seems weird to me that we always communicated great about everything, we got along great, did everything together - and now it is strange to have some sort of “transparent wall” with her.
But that's what happens with breakups. You are going from being a unit, a married couple, to being two people. There is going to be a loss of intimacy, of being able to really connect with your wife. (That is actually one of the reasons MLCers run from us—because we know them so well.)
You do have an advantage, going forward—your kids. You will always be connected to your wife (or your soon-to-be ex-wife, if she gets her way). There will be time down the road to pave the way.
If she were to ask you how you felt about her, I would not lie or equivocate. But don't use it as an attempt to plead your case; just tell her "I still care for you, and I think we can make this work. But I can't and I won't make you stay if you don't want to be here." Put that decision back on her.
StillStanding:
Thanks for the suggestions on how to act with her.
This is what I would have done on my own, but I just don’t get how “Detaching and these suggestions” can work together hand in hand?
I haven't been on the site in a while, but I see people referring to "detaching" and it seems very different than the concept of detachment that I am used to.
Detachment is about reclaiming responsibility for and control over your emotions. Detachment is what allows a doctor to treat a seriously ill child without breaking down in tears at the child's misery. It's not that the doctor doesn't care about the child—they know that the best way to help them is to maintain emotional distance.
You asked if I am a Church going guy.
I believe in God, but I have never been a Church going guy. I pray and talk to him on my own - when I need him, but no I am not a practicing Church member. What is between God and me is just that.
The funny thing is that my wife grew up very close with her Church. From the time she was a little girl to her late teens, she was very active
with her Church. I was so proud when her Paster (whom she grew up) married us in front of our family and friends.
She stopped going to Church when she was around 18 but still did the larger services Christmas, Easter…. When she started acting out of character last Sept, she blamed me for not bring our children up “in the Church.” In Dec she actually started to go to Church 1.5 months before BD. I told her that I would like to go with her and support her. I told her that we could make it a family day - Get up, go to Church, go out afterwards for lunch. etc…
Happened once and then she just didn’t go anymore -
My wife grew up in the church as well. She stopped going because she said she didn't want to force it on me—I didn't grow up in the church—but since she moved out, she hasn't really gone. Her family knows very little about what is happening; my MIL knows about the other man (because my wife couldn't stop texting him when she came to visit us) but no one knows that she moved out. Yes, for 6 years!
You commented on character flaws:
My wife and I got along great. Sure, we had arguments every so often. We did have a few larger arguments - maybe 4 in our 26 year marriage. - Our MC told us that we “were a normal relationship.” That there was nothing that would make them think we needed to “D.”
When I am stressed out at work, I don’t bring it home. Home is where that stress
is not. Home is a place of safety, enjoyment. I always told her how much I love her. I kissed
her, hugged her everyday until she put a stop to it. Sex was no problem - on my end.
My wife is the one who slowed that to a halt.
That is probably because her desire to leave has to do with MLC, not with any real problems in the marriage. Not that there aren't things she'd probably be happy to see you do.
If (anyone reading) could give me some insight to “your” communication level with your MCL.
Do you talk - in person or phone?
If so, is all business with Kids or is it on a personal level/small talk.
Do you communicate like this when you text or email as well?
This goes out to all LBS who are standing - divorced or not.
My wife and I have regular contact, but it comes and goes. I would probably classify the contact level as "Boomerang." Sometimes she will text me several times a day, and there have been times where I have gone for two weeks (or more) without hearing from her.
We still see each other at gatherings with friends. Sometimes we see each other for the holidays. Her birthday is on Sunday, and I dunno if people are going to want to take her to dinner or have a get-together, or what.
Her family never visits us, but we both attended the weddings of her younger siblings since bomb drop. Not because I was expected to, but because I still consider them family—I've known my SIL since she was 13!
-
For what its worth, I agree with everything Still said in the previous post. The benefit of divorce and being open to all outcomes for me is that i can stay true to myself (do/say/act) how I want without worrying about how she will react. Basically the divorce freed me from having to play the mlc game.
-
Thanks everyone for the contact info and Links.
StillStanding - you stated your more like a boomeranging when I comes to contact
and you still do holidays, parties, etc. Does she bring the other person?
That would be very hard for me...
Here is a question for everyone.
Just a question so please don't get mad (cause I know that some detachment is needed)
When you detach, doesn't that give the MLC the green light to live their fantasy and live in the infatuation/limerance life? Doesn't it give them a license to be the bad person they have become - someone they would never have tolerated? Most of them say they feel bad, awful about what they are doing but they just have to do it. They obviously know what they are doing. Even all our friends know what's up, but they all talk to her like
just like before - go to dinners with her- etc. I think this also gives them the green light to do the crap they are doing. I'm sorry - but these folks were the people she didn't tell until 2 days before she moved out. She knew they would say "what the hell are you doing for Gods sake?" And they would have - but she didn't contact any of them for 3 months since she has moved out. Did they all just forget?
Sorry for going of on a tangent....
I try to keep my post concise, but ultimately I turns into something like my life at the moment - confusing.
Speed
-
Thanks everyone for the contact info and Links.
StillStanding - you stated your more like a boomeranging when I comes to contact
and you still do holidays, parties, etc. Does she bring the other person?
That would be very hard for me...
No, she does not show up with OM. I have no idea if she's still in contact with him or not; if she is, she's keeping it well away from everyone. (Or they are keeping it from me? After 6 years, I would imagine that someone would have slipped by now…)
If she was coming to parties or get-togethers with the OM—especially as we are still married—things would be a lot different. I've told her that I won't be around her if she's got a boyfriend, and I would probably go as dark as I can.
Here is a question for everyone.
Just a question so please don't get mad (cause I know that some detachment is needed)
When you detach, doesn't that give the MLC the green light to live their fantasy and live in the infatuation/limerance life?
Nope! She moved out on you, so everything she does from this point on is her choice and her responsibility. You're not her parent or her jailer.
Doesn't it give them a license to be the bad person they have become - someone they would never have tolerated? Most of them say they feel bad, awful about what they are doing but they just have to do it. They obviously know what they are doing.
The idea that your actions gives her license or permission for her behavior is an extremely codependant way of thinking. You are not responsible for her choices and actions, and she is not responsible for yours. I understand that you love her and want to protect her from hurting herself, but that's not what she wants OR needs right now.
Even all our friends know what's up, but they all talk to her like just like before - go to dinners with her- etc. I think this also gives them the green light to do the crap they are doing. I'm sorry - but these folks were the people she didn't tell until 2 days before she moved out. She knew they would say "what the hell are you doing for Gods sake?" And they would have - but she didn't contact any of them for 3 months since she has moved out. Did they all just forget?
Maybe you should ask them?
But really, if you are separated from your wife and no longer a "couple" (even if the divorce is not final), then they are probably trying to figure out what kind of relationship they will have with the two of you separately. And you might want to think long and hard before trying to make your mutual friends choose between you and her; if you do get the chance to reconcile with your wife, it's going to be a lot harder if your friends are harboring resentment against her or you!
-
Thanks StillStanding.
I agree with you that 6 years would be a long time to try and hide something.
I am not the one who has tried to influence our friends, I do know she has told a couple of them (if not more and now she has put the hammer down on her family also - her family was very supportive of me) that
she couldn't associate with them if they associate with me. I would never ever do that, but I'm not the one
who wants to change my life either. (other than getting our marriage and family back intact)
As far as giving them the green light, I am not saying that I have any influence over her - There is no co-dependancy.
I've never acted like her parent or jailer, my wife was free to always do as she wished. Sometimes I wonder if "my" detachment helps "her" justify her detachment to me and the longer we are apart, the more "out of sight, out of mind"
I will be, but when you don't have connection, chances are this will happen.
(I know I use the "out of sight, out of mind" line a lot)
Also, I had asked earlier about "why they pin point everything negative toward the spouse only - why no one else."
I got a lot of great replies. If they shift the blame to the spouse, and seeing or thinking of the LBS reminds
them of their unhappiness, then why doesn't seeing the kids have this type of impact? Why aren't they reminded of their
unhappiness when they see the kids, family members, friends, or while doing things you used to do together?
I would think holidays, and seasonal events would remind them as well... I would think everything would remind them.
Thanks
Speed
-
Hi Speed,
The MLCer sees themselves and the LBS as the same person who causes all the negative in their life. We all know that is not true yet that is how their thinking is skewed.
-
Elegance:
"The MLCer sees themselves and the LBS as the same person who causes all the negative in their life. We all know that is not true yet that is how their thinking is skewed."
Wow - I've never thought of it like this.
How in the hell can the LBS ever come back from this.......
Speed
-
Speed,
It's best to try to as much as you can, to put the focus back on you, and live as positively as you can. Improve whatever you know you can about yourself.
It's much more attractive to the MLCer and better for you as well :D
-
Speed, you'll learn none of this makes sense.
I still, to this day, can't understand why my H went off the rails.
We had a pretty decent marriage (21 years) and most people were shocked when we broke up. He chased me for 7 years before I would commit to marry him. 7 years! I was ok being single and I also worried because he was much younger than me. But it's been 31 years since we met and we're fine. Divorced but fine.
You'll also learn that it takes a long time for them to get back to any kind of normal.
I started seeing positive movement after maybe 2 1/2 years. Little by little he has gotten back to his old self and it's been 5 1/2 years since bd.
I still see some confusion yet and some depression.
If I knew then what I know now I would have gone Dark with him from the start. We have no kids together.
I would have completely left him alone. I really think his crisis would not have taken so long. Just my opinion about my situation.
I don't believe for one minute that out of site out of mind happens. I think they need to miss you. They need to feel you gone.
-
Elegance:
"The MLCer sees themselves and the LBS as the same person who causes all the negative in their life. We all know that is not true yet that is how their thinking is skewed."
Wow - I've never thought of it like this.
How in the hell can the LBS ever come back from this.......
By recognizing that their MLC is not a personal attack on us. By learning about and understanding the MLC process.
new thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8195.0
-
Hi Everyone,
It seems that when I read about return stories, they seem to take place like in 2013-2015 etc.
They never really seem to say if they are still together or if the "R" is still present today.
They just kind of stop posting.... Could these stories have been moved to a new thread?
Thanks everyone,
Speed
-
I suspect that many people whose marriages have been restored are not going to come to HS and post details. That difficult and painful part of their life is past and they are now together with their spouse and building their lives.
People come to HS to get support and many many leave for several reasons.
This is why it is so difficult to get a real idea on whether MLCers return home...there are too many variables and this is not set up like a research study that would follow people forward and generate true data regarding MLCers who wish to come back home.
-
Being that women outnumber men here by at least a margin of 4-1, we have far more men reconciling with women LBSers.
I would think that on other forums with more men there are more reconnections the other way.
We certainly have some here.
A few that I can think of without even looking.