Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: OldPilot on January 29, 2015, 07:23:05 AM
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This thread is primarily for men.
I will be the primary moderator for this thread.
It is my thread and I will set the rules.
There was a thread on DB called this and it did not go well,
we also had a thread here close(for post length) and I am gathering their were some hurt feelings.
I know that their are men here who feel that they have been persecuted and
that they are not manly enough.
Women please enter this thread at your own risk.
Their may be some rough stuff going on this thread,
I really can not predict that.
However I feel like the men here need a place to voice their concerns, vent etc.
The forum will automatically edit any swearing or cuss words.
OK it is OPEN for business.
BRING IT!
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Always been a risk taker, i am intrigued ;)
Sd
X
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I don't mind taking a risk so I will just pop by a say hello now and again .
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It's like LifeTwo all over again! Consider it BROUGHT!!!
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I don't really know what will go on in here but I'm intrigued as well.
I just hope us guys don't post anything sexist.
Because sexism is wrong.
And being wrong is what women do. ;)
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Thanks OP & RCR!
Attached!
DO
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Okay, time to start some manly discussion here. How many point do you guys think the Patriots are going to win by on Sunday?
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OK guys vent geat it off your chest tell like it is no metros please lol if u offend someone sick it up bettee u do it here then at home think of this as a pressure valve so go at it Boys
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Okay, time to start some manly discussion here. How many point do you guys think the Patriots are going to win by on Sunday?
It depends on how many spy cams and air pumps they can get their hands on.
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Okay, time to start some manly discussion here. How many point do you guys think the Patriots are going to win by on Sunday?
No pumps needed....the refs were put on the payroll this week!
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first. Thanks for this thread op and Rcr. And a little shout out to rugged endurance who left us last week with some constructive criticism.
Second, cheaters beware the karma bus is coming to Arizona.
And now, gentleman, a little more hard core.
Here's an interesting link discussing a common female refrain in culture: "where have all the good men gone". I'm not in the dating pool, but I find this a little scary if true.
http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2u8hr5/the_following_comment_was_upvoted_to_1000_in/
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Effing great idea OP.
You know , it often comes down to the old double standard thing in this stuff and the guys copping cr@p just for saying how it is for them , which l think is bs.
Women will not hesitate to say how it is for them , in front of us or when they get together and we usually $uck it up or stay out of it and tbh if we don't like it tough but , l just expect the same in return .
Just sayin .
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OK I've been out... I'm drunk...
Most of you think you are in love with you wives (or ex wives)
Controlling isn't caring...just sayin'
And MONEY and sex isn't what it's all about..Have you figured that out yet?
Knock yourselves out. ..vent all you want...In It has weighed in.
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^--- drops mic.
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And a little shout out to rugged endurance who left us last week......
Here's an interesting link discussing a common female refrain in culture: "where have all the good men gone". I'm not in the dating pool, but I find this a little scary if true.
http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2u8hr5/the_following_comment_was_upvoted_to_1000_in/
Rugged will be missed and that's a shame. Perhaps he will return and join us here!
Interesting article elray to say the least and yet sadly, this seems to be a common theme in the local dating scene. Social Hypergamy at its finest!
OK I've been out... I'm drunk...
Most of you think you are in love with you wives (or ex wives)
Controlling isn't caring...just sayin'
And MONEY and sex isn't what it's all about..Have you figured that out yet?
Knock yourselves out. ..vent all you want...In It has weighed in.
I'm sorry you feel that way!
Mad Hatter
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So......we're basically doing and talking about guy stuff, but within the constraints of the boundaries set by the females here. It's like we're having a poker game with our significant others sitting in the room listening in on our conversations so we have to like what we say. OP is basically making all of us menfolk feel like we did when we were married/ together. Genius!
Oh, yeah, and Pats by 14 Sunday.
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Hey, I could say the same things about the female prospects out there. Roughly 20% might be long term relationship material according to my preferences.
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So......we're basically doing and talking about guy stuff, but within the constraints of the boundaries set by the females here. It's like we're having a poker game with our significant others sitting in the room listening in on our conversations so we have to like what we say. OP is basically making all of us menfolk feel like we did when we were married/ together. Genius!
Oh, yeah, and Pats by 14 Sunday.
I don't see this at all really....he did say he would edit cuss words and such, but I believe the spirit of this board is for us to discuss things and vent ourselves in our way. We should be respectful, but our views and opinions may be voiced. There is a warning that things may get rough.....things may not necessarily be the "social norm". I say express yourself, your views and ideas. OP will let us know and set boundaries as required!
No longer should you feel bound to hold it in yourself. If you didn't have a voice before or in some way felt oppressed, now is your time to speak!
We are listening!
Mad Hatter
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Bl**dly awesome! Pleased you boys have a place just for you!!!
I can confirm that if anyone is looking for amazing fashion advice - Me Now is your man!
Can rock a mankini, a hospital gown and knows a thing or two about how to wear a bed pan. I think he might be looking for a side kick or two!
Enjoy you own place - you deserve it 8)
Kia Kaha - Stay strong
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OK I've been out... I'm drunk...
Most of you think you are in love with you wives (or ex wives)
Controlling isn't caring...just sayin'
And MONEY and sex isn't what it's all about..Have you figured that out yet?
Knock yourselves out. ..vent all you want...In It has weighed in.
init , l could say the same about a lot of the husbands people are waiting to come back .
And l don't get the sex thing as it seems far more important to women than guys.
l could show you a post that went l think 100 pages . It was about what we all miss about being married.
And guess what. Every women in there said sex and it was no 1.. Most of them didn't even mention the real stuff .
But every guy n there said things like connection , affection , friendship , working together .
lt really really amazed me .
They also ran another thread about what's important to women. And guess what .
Again , sex , confidence , a good job , ahh = money l believe, what does all that spell. Again 1.000s of replies. All said the same thing.
Thankfully and l don't mind saying , the women here have all been such a breath of fresh air and have mostly literally restored the faith for me so hearing you actually say the sex and money thing , l for one am really glad you feel that way.
On the downside though no clue why you'd even have a problem with the cave, yet you come here speaking like that . Whatever went on with your man has nothing to do with whatever happened for everyone else.
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So......we're basically doing and talking about guy stuff, but within the constraints of the boundaries set by the females here. It's like we're having a poker game with our significant others sitting in the room listening in on our conversations so we have to like what we say. OP is basically making all of us menfolk feel like we did when we were married/ together. Genius!
Oh, yeah, and Pats by 14 Sunday.
Sadly , that probably is the way it will go as already demonstrated and we haven't even finished page two yet . But hey , worth a try !
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What happened with Rugged , what he's left ? lf so, gonna miss him .
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Ok here goes nothing. As a woman I would expect to hear some women bashing on this thread! We do it - so why can't you? If women don't like what is being said then they don't have to be here!
I haven't been on this forum long but the thing that I have observed is how in touch the men here are of their feelings and the fantastic ability you all have to express yourselves.
I have a friend that is teaching me to think and talk male - helps me understand my xp and some of the craziness that is happening with him at the moment. From what I can gather men have two emotions happy and angry. Angry covers every emotion but happiness. So I would expect to see angry men on this thread that don't feel they have to tone it down for us ladies. Please correct me if I am wrong but a lot of anger that men show comes from pain, hurt, frustration, guilt etc. as women the best gift we can give our men is the opportunity for you to let rip when you need to. We need to accept that this is how most men deal with life and suck it up and let you go forth and spew! This was something I didn't allow my xp to do and he ended up imploding.
Hawk it would sadden me if didn't feel you could use this thread in the way it was intended.
Kia Kaha - stay strong
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OP is basically making all of us menfolk feel like we did when we were married/ together. Genius!
Isn't the idea of this forum to get you back together again anyway or to make you whole and healed so you can be a better YOU.
I am Not sure that degrading women is the way to do that,
.knowing what women find attractive is not a bad thing.
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OP is basically making all of us menfolk feel like we did when we were married/ together. Genius!
Isn't the idea of this forum to get you back together again anyway or to make you whole and healed so you can be a better YOU.
I am Not sure that degrading women is the way to do that,
.knowing what women find attractive is not a bad thing.
I must admit that Thundarr's sarcasm made me snigger and OP - thanks for setting this up - great idea. I promise not to lurk....
Gents - one of my best friends in all this malarky called MLC has been a man. He has been good to me, told me like it is and also believes in me. Thank you for those of you who have posted on my threads showing support for me especially OP who set me very straight one day and I will always be grateful.
See you all on the other side!!
Edit - You can lurk all you want - Old Pilot
;D ;D ;D - S&D
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Hmmm a tad disappointed i must say. I do not promise not to lurk ;D
Perhaps as a woman i can start you off a little. I have never been a great fan of women i will be honest. I had mommy issues too. There are a lot of generalised female traits that i find really unattractive. In this mess i decided to try and change my perceptions and looked around to find females that inspired me. I am afraid that i have not really achieved this.
Whilst i do see some females who are genuinely good people i find a whole lot more who aren't . Why i don't know but the main thing i find is how utterly competitive the female race is. Only really with each other in general terms and with men in business.
I have read book like the script, the men in mid life crisis etc and it really annoys me when it is written how us women have to concentrate on not letting ourselves go and be attractive to men. Why do we have to do that, because men are visual creatures? Yes initially but you can be a seriously attractive person with nadda inside. But women believe that stuff, therefore a lot of women will go to great lengths to be better than the next one. Pay attention to ME, not her!!!
Strip women down, take away their make up etc etc and there lies the real beauty. Yet we all conform.
What do you guys feel are your pressures from women? How far do you try to conform?
Sd
X
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Okay, time to start some manly discussion here. How many point do you guys think the Patriots are going to win by on Sunday?
It depends on how many spy cams and air pumps they can get their hands on.
They would have won if they were playing with a bar of soap. btw---I'm making deflated meatballs for Superball Sunday (and yes I live in Patriots-land)!!
And MONEY and sex isn't what it's all about..Have you figured that out yet?
I have not figured this out yet... ;)
Sorry guys, I'll jump back to the other threads, I just find men more fun. :D
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Superball Sunday
Before you guys attack me, spellcheck did that I swear...lol
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Typical women... Just coming around looking for drama! Just kidding... I think this is a great idea but suspect we will find much less woman bashing then expected.
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Perhaps as a woman i can start you off a little. I have never been a great fan of women i will be honest. I had mommy issues too. There are a lot of generalised female traits that i find really unattractive. In this mess i decided to try and change my perceptions and looked around to find females that inspired me. I am afraid that i have not really achieved this.
Put Me down as a fan of women.
We sometimes talk about female competition in a negative view but you don't have to look too far back to see it as a survival Mechanism.
The vast majority of humanity we've been gene selecting within small tribes of a 100-150 hunter gatherers, much of our "negative" behaviors make sense. Back then tribe rank would have been very important and finding a strong mate for our pair bonding increased The survival rate for kids....so female competition gets baked into our gene pool. Those who chose not to had a lower survival rate. Today where rank is less clear that translates to good provider or good fighter-defender and sometimes to badass or alph type qualities.
Lots of things can be explained by that. For example why are women louder in bed.. As scientist describe it: female copulation vocalization. Quite gender specific. Scientist study it across species and it is most common in species with high female competition.
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For example why are women louder in bed.. As scientist describe it: female copulation vocalization. Quite gender specific. Scientist study it across species and it is most common in species with high female competition.
Learnt something new and interesting. I wished men were more vocal. It works magic.
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For example why are women louder in bed.. As scientist describe it: female copulation vocalization. Quite gender specific. Scientist study it across species and it is most common in species with high female competition.
Learnt something new and interesting. I wished men were more vocal. It works magic.
Agree, Agree, Agree....husband was not very vocal, when I started dating and boyfriend was vocal,
I love it!! Male screamers??...really cool, you know in a baritone kind of way... ;)
Why should I be the only who thinks of cool things to say??
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LOL! I have always been kind of shy and embarrass easily. Hard to be vocal when you don't want the kids to hear you!
Now get a night alone in the house....My neighbors down the street will know what is going on... ;D ;D ;D
-T
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.knowing what women find attractive is not a bad thing.
We already know this. They want "bad boys." That's why schmucks like us find ourselves here while almost all the women are longing for the womanizing, hard-partying abusive men. We're pretty much screwed (and not in the way we want to be!).
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I agree with Picton.
Before I had children I used to refer to other women as conniving, backstabbing ows. Then I bonded with women and started looking at men in a different way. Now I see neither sex is better, just different; it would be a shame not to learn from each other. I always enjoyed the male perspective on here and was not offended but good that you have a place to vent.
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.knowing what women find attractive is not a bad thing.
We already know this. They want "bad boys." That's why schmucks like us find ourselves here while almost all the women are longing for the womanizing, hard-partying abusive men. We're pretty much screwed (and not in the way we want to be!).
Not sure I agree with that.
I am sure a PHD therapist with three kids could be VERY attractive without being a BAD BOY!
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I just thought of something...should probably take it to my own thread, but while on the subject...in my case we seemed to ALWAYS have had someone living with us. A brother-in-law, sister-in-law, grown children, etc. I really didn't mind too much, but I do think it took its toll on our r. W even said "I have been taking care of people my whole life, now its time for ME to have fun." Hmmmm, funny that was HER choice as I pretty much let her make those kinds of decisions.
As it applies to the subject at hand...its hard to "let loose" in the bedroom when someone is ALWAYS in the house. Not saying things were bad in that department, but sometimes you just want to be vocal, and even carry the session all over the house!!! ;D
-T
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.knowing what women find attractive is not a bad thing.
We already know this. They want "bad boys." That's why schmucks like us find ourselves here while almost all the women are longing for the womanizing, hard-partying abusive men. We're pretty much screwed (and not in the way we want to be!).
Hmmm...I don't think that is always the case, but often is.
My wife obviously wanted the "white picket fence" and "the good guy" when she was younger. She never went through the "bad boy" phase.....until MLC.
-T
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My wife obviously wanted the "white picket fence" and "the good guy" when she was younger. She never went through the "bad boy" phase.....until MLC.
I dont think the point is for us to change ourselves into BAD BOYS as that will only attract BAD GIRLS.
Not what I want at least.
I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
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I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
LMAO! Thanks I needed that this morning!
-T
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I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
LMAO! Thanks I needed that this morning!
-T
Methinks OP doth protest too much. I think he likes your 'stache. Lol!
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I figure he had to put that disclaimer in there; after all I do have Freddie Mercury as a profile pic LMAO
-T
(A disclaimer of my own: I picked that pic because its the genre of music I like; not for ANY OTHER REASON LOL)
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Hello men,
I promise not to inject myself here too often. I think this is a great idea.
Men do express themselves very differently from women. I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say.
I think most of us have looked at marriage as something less attractive after going through this.
Both men and women.
Dj remarked on another thread: "What is the advantage of marriage?? It's really just a contract to provide financial support after the relationship is over."
I understand that, it is very unfair for some men to have to support a woman after she dumps him but I see it from the other side. My X wanted out of our 28 year relationship. I didn't. I owned a house when my H and I got married and made more money than my H did through out our M, but I was retired at the time of BD. He made $30,000 more than I did and was angry he had to pay me alimony. He thought he should just take his money and go. Didn't matter what happened to me or how I was going to live on SS and a small pension.
I had no choice but to ask for alimony.
So please don't judge us all. We're not all money grabbers. I'm sure not living high on the hog. :)
Enjoy your new man cave. Spill it! (I'm covering my ears). ;)
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I figure he had to put that disclaimer in there; after all I do have Freddie Mercury as a profile pic LMAO
-T
(A disclaimer of my own: I picked that pic because its the genre of music I like; not for ANY OTHER REASON LOL)
I saw Freddy Mercury in Concert but you were about 8 years old then.......
I'm sure not living high on the hog. :)
Dont worry neither are most of us,
Divorce tends to do that to you.
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My wife obviously wanted the "white picket fence" and "the good guy" when she was younger. She never went through the "bad boy" phase.....until MLC.
I dont think the point is for us to change ourselves into BAD BOYS as that will only attract BAD GIRLS.
Not what I want at least.
I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
Sorry to inject yet again, but it's not really bad or good, it's confidence, a strutt, a look, unfortunately those things often come along with the "bad boys".
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Quote from: OldPilot on Today at 07:00:45 AM
Quote from: terrified_in_TN on Today at 06:44:18 AM
My wife obviously wanted the "white picket fence" and "the good guy" when she was younger. She never went through the "bad boy" phase.....until MLC.
I dont think the point is for us to change ourselves into BAD BOYS as that will only attract BAD GIRLS.
Not what I want at least.
I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
Sorry to inject yet again, but it's not really bad or good, it's confidence, a strutt, a look, unfortunately those things often come along with the "bad boys".
My point initially was that it isn't a "bad boy phase". Don't be angry with your wife for having a natural attraction. It's encoded in her as much as your female sexual biases. She has desires for both bad boy and a nurturing protective pair bonding. We all have some bad boy in us. Some more than others. Mlc simply releases social inhibitions but long term marital success hinges on being able to tap into both sides of your male nature.
You have the same duality in your desire.. A lady in the street and a wh*re in the sheets. So don't be so quick to judge her desire as bad or "something She needs to find elsewhere". You may very much enjoy releasing that side of yourself.
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... So don't be so quick to judge that desire as bad or "not something you can fulfill".
I hear what you are saying. And I do understand completely. I'll be the first to admit, I guess I'm not the most masculine fellow in the world, but I am not about to run out and get a dozen tattoos and start doing 8 balls of coke on Saturday nights LOL. I am way more understanding the most men, BELIEVE me-but the part I can't get through my thick head is the sheer meanness of them. We have spent almost half our lives together and even shortly after she left she was "fishing" to make sure I was still an option. Then one day she hit the b*tch switch and has been that way ever since, and I am left wondering "what the hell did I do???"
But yes we men have that duality as well too. Attracted to the "dirty girls". Dirtier the better. But not necessarily someone you bring home to meet mom. ;D
-EDIT- I meant to add that although its true about being attracted to the "dirty gals", for the most part, that non sense is behind me. At this stage in my life, I will take commitment and an emotional connection over an acrobat in the bedroom.
-T
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Most of her rage is misplaced anger. Typical mlc script. But maybe in some small part that she can't enunciate she is mad at you for not being the strong man she needed. I'm not talking about getting tattoos. I'm talking about standing up and doing a garage project or probably 1000 other small shyt tests you can look back and see.
I see that in my experience. I've used my time to dive into that side of myself and it has been personally rewarding.
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In some way you may be right, but I think there is more to it than that...
Again, this is MY case...I am non confrontational; so when the hard business needed to be taken care of-she did the heavy lifting. Example...this goes back a long long ways....Neighbor across the street was cutting grass, and threw a rock through the back window of our truck at the time. She was the one who went over and approached them concerning that (that story actually had quite a good, funny ending...as it turns out-that neighbor owned an auto glass shop at the time LOL).
But, in OTHER areas I would say I went above and beyond: She NEVER did the yard work. She never had to cut grass, not even ONCE. I took care of ALL "fix its". Like I mentioned in my thread, I am a HUGE DIYer, and one of those guys that just have "the knack" for all things electronic and mechanical. I'm sure other guys might be able to say this, but how many other guys do you know that rebuilt their own automatic transmission in their house AND it actually worked afterward LOL (put 100K miles on it before selling the car). I was the bread winner. But she always did feel "inadequate" concerning how much "bread" she brought home compared to me (and now that we are divorcing, she wants as much bread from me as she can get LOL ironic). I did ALL the bills. I could go on and on.
I do believe you might have a point, but in this case I really do think its mostly a physical carnal thing: He is tall, dark, handsome, young, and all tattooed up. Me, I am average, and conservative looking, receding hairline, wrinkles developing, etc. The thing is, he will never amount to anything. Total loser. But I believe it was in it that said it earlier "its not about the money or sex", so I guess the one thing I have going for me is no longer appealing to her.
-T
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Great thread guys and good start so far. For the ladies who have responded positively and are lookinginfor some Iinsight to how we think, feel and express then welcome.
So glad to finally see a place like this on HS.
However, for personal reasons, I will be bowing out; not just from tbe thread, but HS completely. This is for a couple reason:
1) I feel the direction I am going and at the stage I am at now, I have outgrown it or otherwise need to get on with my new life.
2) some recent events that have occured around the HS community have given me cause for concern about the safety and privacy of information and topics I have disclosed about my personal, life and situation. I fear that data could be exposed and used as a weapon against me. These concerns were brought up multiple times by more than one person but I feel they were not properly addressed or otherwise ignored.
WARNING - If you are a part of the alt chat thread, beware.....there are members there that keep records of the chats and have threatened to use these against members by sending it to their spouses! Until this is addressed and corrected.....you are not safe there!!!!
I wish all of you the very best and peace to all of you! Perhaps I may return down the road to check in.....maybe not.
Thanks to all of you for the support and comradiere!
Now, to go rule the Galaxy in proper Sith form! ;)
Darth Obo
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Sorry to take you back a page, but i was laughing out loud at the sexual noises debate.
No no no no no....... I recall this one man that made so much noise and then at that "moment" made a noise and a face to go with it that looked and sounded like he had just had his leg chopped off with a blunt saw. I had two choices, hurt the guys feelings or decide that wearing ear defenders in bed was not a good look for anyone.
I also do not wish to be asked questions or enter into meaningful conversation, whats all that about? Emmm...... Excuse me but quit with the questions dude, i cant answer you cant you see i'm kind of busy over here. Lol.
Elray, yes your right. Guess i would have been that woman sat in her cave for one, sucking on an old dinosaur bone left behind by all the beautiful people.
Sorry i had to get that out, too funny. I love men i really do.
Sd
X
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That's too bad DO on all counts. It's a loss for HS. You are a good role model and mentor, especially for the guys. I always enjoyed your perspective. See you on the other side of the galaxy. We'll have some Sithian ale!
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Sorry to take you back a page, but i was laughing out loud at the sexual noises debate.
No no no no no....... I recall this one man that made so much noise and then at that "moment" made a noise and a face to go with it that looked and sounded like he had just had his leg chopped off with a blunt saw. I had two choices, hurt the guys feelings or decide that wearing ear defenders in bed was not a good look for anyone.
I also do not wish to be asked questions or enter into meaningful conversation, whats all that about? Emmm...... Excuse me but quit with the questions dude, i cant answer you cant you see i'm kind of busy over here. Lol.
Elray, yes your right. Guess i would have been that woman sat in her cave for one, sucking on an old dinosaur bone left behind by all the beautiful people.
Sorry i had to get that out, too funny. I love men i really do.
Sd
X
What?! You didn't find that appealing? Did his orgasm face look like this or something? :o
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Ha ha , no, but that was extremely uncanny to the look on MY face :o :o :o
Wonder where he is now. Now the silence is deafening.lol xxx
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Yes folks stay away from making the sex tapes - the orgasm face is never pretty! (Or so I been told)
Kia Kaha - stay strong
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Thunder, my comment about marriage is based on my experience with my MLCer. We are still married and have not started any legal action. For me, I see no benefit to the institution of marriage. I am happy I was married and hope to save my current marriage, but will not marry a second time. I already have children and see no benefit to ever marrying again. I am interested if any of the other men here feel the same. I'm also interested as to what benefits of marriage anyone else here sees. You can have all the benefits of a marriage without creating a legal contract. I'm not opposed to being fair in a divorce settlement, I just wouldn't do it a second time knowing what I now know.
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Yeah l hate the thought of ever getting married again. l know it's for all the wrong reasons but what can l say.
But a poss' second divorce - how crazy is that when l haven't even met anyone l wanna marry yet anyway and l'm already worrying about a second divorce .
lf l fell in love and could somehow know , she had what it takes , really , and would be there for life , through thick and thin , yeah ,maybe l would but , if my ex did this , anyone can.
Women unfortunately so often are weak and selfish these days , you see it everywhere , it's become so me me . Media , date sites , it's like a la la land , it's everywhere.
The sort of women that are here , standing for their marriages , not giving up , going through what were all going through , fighting and trying everything they can even after yrs to save their marriages , yeah l'd marry someone like that again but how would you know you had one of those until it hits the fan.
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Forget the bad boy thing guys , it's all just big load of crock, la la land garbage internet opportunity to grand stand bs . Just night clubbing out with the girls big noting themselves in front of their friends 1/2 drunk more bs la la land .
And for a start ,what are you even getting in her for your trouble anyway?.
Forget to that thread l mentioned earlier because that's exactly all that was too , just mentioned it to prove a point.
90% of the women in that place were just grandstanding over the internet in front of all their friends there and the good old egging each other on thing as they do . Most of them had been single for urs and yrs and forever b@tching about the bad boys they always ended up dating . They'd all had the crapper kicked out of them for yrs on end in reality. But give someone the op to grandstand and dream and that's all that was.
lf you really wanna see just read date site profiles , hate that word , it's so not what love should be isn't it.
But anyway , the LAST thing on the planet, real life women are looking for in a real relationship and asking for is a bad boy , the total opposite in fact, total opposite .
Anyone 1/2 decent on those things actually stresses , and often 3 or 4 times. Things like and don't even bother if all your after is sex , and things like genuinely or playing games or cas' hook up rararara , l'm not the girl for you.
They're all looking for decent guys that will treat them well , communicate, someone after a long term 2way relationship , they go on and on about a nice guy not some jerk .
And they often have a paragraph , hell l've seen them go on for 3/4 of a page about all the ass/holes they're meeting - a bad boy is the last thing those girls are looking for in reality .
Besides , we are what we are , so how real is it if that isn't good enough ?
Would you really want some 50yr old moron that's still stuck in the bad boy dreaming . How longs it gonna last with a women like that assuming you were stupid enough to even bother anyway ?
As l said to a mate just the other wk when he brought that sh@t up. Just look down any street or shopping strip and what do you see in all the married couples out there. You see every poss' combo in two people you could imagine. That's reality .
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I've not contributed much to this thread, hope to do so in the future.
Thunder, my comment about marriage is based on my experience with my MLCer. We are still married and have not started any legal action. For me, I see no benefit to the institution of marriage. I am happy I was married .and hope to save my current marriage, but will not marry a second time. I already have children and see no benefit to ever marrying again. I am interested if any of the other men here feel the same. I'm also interested as to what benefits of marriage anyone else here sees. You can have all the benefits of a marriage without creating a legal contract. I'm not opposed to being fair in a divorce settlement, I just wouldn't do it a second time knowing what I now know.
The above quote (bolded) is where I am at now.
I do hope to have a close relationship with someone in the future but don't see the benefit of getting married another time.
Uk Law gives the woman 50% plus of the mans marital assets while letting her keep her own. I won't put myself in that position to lose what I have. (This is my own personal experience and may not relate to nationwide divorce statistics).
Lanzo
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Thunder, my comment about marriage is based on my experience with my MLCer. We are still married and have not started any legal action. For me, I see no benefit to the institution of marriage. I am happy I was married and hope to save my current marriage, but will not marry a second time. I already have children and see no benefit to ever marrying again. I am interested if any of the other men here feel the same. I'm also interested as to what benefits of marriage anyone else here sees. You can have all the benefits of a marriage without creating a legal contract. I'm not opposed to being fair in a divorce settlement, I just wouldn't do it a second time knowing what I now know.
Whether or not to marry again is subjective to the parties involved and personal preference.
Technically, there is no need for marriage period. A man and woman can commit to each other, have children, raise and provide for them as Well as nurture each other And sustain the relationship indefinitely without being legally married! Couple of good examples are Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn and Gene Simmons with Shannon Tweed. Neither of these couples were married yet they both sustained long term relationships and both had children they raised together.
Reality is, eventually you will get pushed for marriage. It doesn't take lon, few months, a year, and eventually you will get approached with questions like "so what are we", suggestions to move in together, and some will flat out pressure you for marriage.
While there are legal benefits (tax breaks, insurance plans, etc ), marriage really benefits the woman. Because of the draconian divorce laws that typically favor women, marriage ensures that, should things go sour, she can be entitled to assets and alimony. Even if she Does have a good paying job, more often than not you will pay or relinquish assets to ensure she can sustain her "standard of living".
I don't include CS as that is given and a man should support his child both question and with a smile on his face!
The only real benefit to marriage after kids I can see is financial peers combining assets for a standard of living.....and even then, individual assets should not be mingled and a pre-nup and follow up post-nup is crucial in the event things go sour. Marriage has nothing to do with love.....you can love someone for the rest of your life, support and nurture them, and never need to be married to do so.
I personally am not opposed to marriage.....but extreme screening should be done; understand fully Well the type of person they are and don't be afraid to bail when red flags come to surface! She needs to bring something to the table as well (financially) and have her own hobbies & activities to meet some of her needs. It's impossible and very selfish to ask someone to meet your every need and revolve around them!
Regards
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Exactly my point Mad. Also, I can't imagine being pressured into marriage. A former colleague of mine divorced and always said he wouldn't get married again. I never understood until now. There is no benefit to getting married a second time, NONE. He has had several 3-5 year relationships in the years I have known him and they all fall apart for one reason or another, But he's happy and has a great life.
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Exactly my point Mad. Also, I can't imagine being pressured into marriage. A former colleague of mine divorced and always said he wouldn't get married again. I never understood until now. There is no benefit to getting married a second time, NONE. He has had several 3-5 year relationships in the years I have known him and they all fall apart for one reason or another, But he's happy and has a great life.
A bit hesitant to post this, but there is an alternate lifestyle out there. They do not necessarily avoid female interaction; but they are true to themselves and do what is best for them and to protect their interests.
http://www.mgtow.com/about/
http://www.mgtow.com/manosphere/
A quote from the second link:
"The young man has finally learned that men and women share the same inherent character flaws, but not the same consequences. He has sinned, and he has paid dearly. She has sinned, and she has been exalted.
He doesn’t hate his corporation; he hates the system. He doesn’t hate God; he hates what the church does in God’s name. He doesn’t hate women; he hates the unforgiving female support machine. He doesn’t hate feminists or White Knights; he hates navigating the environment they create.
That’s why there’s a Manosphere, and that’s why it’s growing."
MH
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Got a serious question.
And it's not personal or about some women in the forum so much and as l say many here actually restore the faith. Wish l could meet some actually
But even so , it's already right through the cave and it'll end up more women than men anyway , l think it is now but they just won't have it any other way and butt in the second they don't like .
But why ? Why do they even care ?
Why is it , women even give a toss if guys want a cave ?
Which sadly, with out a serious padlock and no surprises there but why ?
And even then l'd guarantee women will be setting up fake id's to get in , true, saw it in another one.
Different world in internet land isn't it eh.
And notice half have somehow actually given us their permission , gee thanks , to have a cave already l mean wtf !. l do not get it !
Why is it women just can not stay away from guys , even in a sitch like this ? They can't , they never can .
They'll lurk , they'll force themselves into what men obviously wanted to be their own , they'll insist on it , it's life , it's women , but why ?
And why do they assume or even care anyway , not like we're all married to each other or something , that all you'd want a cave for is to b@tch about women or talk about the next one we wanna screw?
As if we even if we did let fly or even close , even if that is what we wanted , not a hope anyway bc the girls would be all over it, we know that - but why ?
Like l couldn't give a rats about a girls club , l know what'll be going on , so what , who cares , that's women . They'll be talking about all the things they assume we'd talk about
Well unless l'm married to her and the crowd anyway.
And as many of us know , women are far far worse than guys when they get together anyway . That sorta stuff has been the beginning or the end of half the marriages round here .
They actually have far less to worry about a bunch of blokes getting together than we would about a bunch of girls .
Hell most guys l've know would actually 2x4 you if you were out screwing round anyway , or talking about it or out all night every night pissing it up when you have a family and good wife at home.
Why is it , women just can not , seem to stay away from men or outa their stuff ? l never get any of that.
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"No one is excluded" hawk. Simple idea For the cave-- so far very limited "drive bys"..
There are plenty of places when women really don't go. In case you haven't noticed those places include most board rooms, ceo offices, and the Oval Office for the last 200 years...perhaps the latter will change soon.
If you knew that your gender excluded you from so manly opportunities, being told of another "no go" zone might reflexively raise a response in you to.
I think there are plenty of things for a man to complain about in the marriage laws as the currently stand and anger is justifiable. but you still carry a distinct advantage in the world based on your chromosomes...don't talk like a victim.
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elray does offer an interesting observation; I'll offer a much simpler and more common reason and the typical scenario in a lot of marriages:
A quote from ruggedendurance just before he was essentially run (badgered) off the board:
kikki,
This is the typical double standard that I am speaking of. Women want men to talk and hash things out and evolve.
Then. They stick their nose into the garage and want to control the dialog.
It is all about control.
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Nah didn't mean it like a victim Elray , just a very simple question about things like this . Totally different thing.
We know all the type of stuff your saying but l'm not talking about anything like that . lf there are women in that position in the company or whatever , then of course they should be part of it.
But l mean that's saying oh , bc of that type of stuff , men can never have the right to their any of own space anymore . That's not right .
But women do , all the time .
Anyway l expect lots of that but l just thought l'd try it because it always amazes me.
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Dj.
To your question on re-marriage, I would agree with the group consensus. I'm self aware enough to know myself and I feel more strongly now than I might in the future. I think the true measure of the question isn't would you remarry.
If you had boys what would you tell them? Not a hypothetical for me --three teenage boys and I'm currently biting my tongue on the advice I think they could use.
As Current divorce Law stands, I will add one other twist. And I wonder if others experienced this. The laws are so empowering to my W it effectively shifted the entire marriage power structure for
Me. I knew she could destroy me financially and end up with the kids. This was particularly powerful on me as the kids where young. Almost three years later, all my kids are above 14 and have input to custody decisions now.
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elray does offer an interesting observation; I'll offer a much simpler and more common reason and the typical scenario in a lot of marriages:
A quote from ruggedendurance just before he was essentially run (badgered) off the board:
kikki,
This is the typical double standard that I am speaking of. Women want men to talk and hash things out and evolve.
Then. They stick their nose into the garage and want to control the dialog.
It is all about control.
Yep , typical RE , he nailed it to a T as usual , exactly my point but by the sounds of it , look what he got . What a shame.
You see , that's what you get for having a pair these days and that's my point.
PS , Jesus the old RE had a way with words didn't he eh !
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I for one don't mind the women who want to participate or lurk in the cave. I also don't mind if some (male or female) are offended by my opinions as I know it is not my intent to insult or offend anyone. I also don't care if anyone wants to try to control the dialogue because that is their problem, not mine. It's my opinion that people are generally far to sensitive and easily offended anyways. My opinion is not about you, yours is not about me. If a man feels all women are "x" why do other women feel a need to change his opinion? Sure the man may be narrow minded or perhaps his opinion has been shaped by his life experiences... Either way, why make it about you and feel the need to "fix" his opinion?
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A quote from ruggedendurance just before he was essentially run (badgered) off the board:
For the record I have been in contact with RE and he left on his own free will he told me he was NOT run off the board.
And he may possibly come back.
He had totally different personal reasons for taking a break.
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Good Q Elray. I have a 5 y/o son and 9 y/o daughter. As for my son I will not advise him unless he asks when that time comes. I will tell him the truth about the disadvantages of marriage and let him form his own opinion. The real question is how would i advise my daughter??? I think she deserves the same truths as my son and she should make decisions that benefit her with all the facts. Fortunately they are young and I have a long time before I need to worry about those issues for them.
Truth is the best thing I can do is raise to have good self esteem and not feel the need to fix other people. I already try to teach them they are not responsible for anyone else hapoiness and that they shouldn't feel the need to fight for someones love.
Here's a question to all the dads out there... What would u tell your sons/daughters to do if they were married to someone having an affair and MLC??
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Great thread guys and good start so far. For the ladies who have responded positively and are lookinginfor some Iinsight to how we think, feel and express then welcome.
So glad to finally see a place like this on HS.
However, for personal reasons, I will be bowing out; not just from tbe thread, but HS completely. This is for a couple reason:
1) I feel the direction I am going and at the stage I am at now, I have outgrown it or otherwise need to get on with my new life.
2) some recent events that have occured around the HS community have given me cause for concern about the safety and privacy of information and topics I have disclosed about my personal, life and situation. I fear that data could be exposed and used as a weapon against me. These concerns were brought up multiple times by more than one person but I feel they were not properly addressed or otherwise ignored.
WARNING - If you are a part of the alt chat thread, beware.....there are members there that keep records of the chats and have threatened to use these against members by sending it to their spouses! Until this is addressed and corrected.....you are not safe there!!!!
I wish all of you the very best and peace to all of you! Perhaps I may return down the road to check in.....maybe not.
Thanks to all of you for the support and comradiere!
Now, to go rule the Galaxy in proper Sith form! ;)
Darth Obo
Seconded. I've seen the evidence. Be careful whom you trust with sensitive and personal information.
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Can I just say that some of us like to know what you guys think so that we understand our own guys a little better? We don't want to screw things up anymore than you do. The trouble is, a lot of guys don't really tell it like it is, but yet they let it fester and fester until they can't take it anymore. If I'm not going to find this stuff out from my guy, you guys might clue me in as to what he might be thinking. I've learned a lot from your posts. I'm not looking for a group of women to man bash with, nor do I plan to join you in your discussion here in your man cave. But I do hope you'll tell it like it is here. Some of us do not believe all men are evil beings.
Looking forward to learning something from you guys, so please don't mind if I take a peek into the cave once in a while. 8)
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l'm afraid of that to Dj .
l use to feel l could help people out with marriage and relationship probs if they asked . And a lot did bc me and my ex were really looked up to , even by mu parents.
l remember thinking at 10 yrs though , ha , 10 yrs , l can't give anyone advice 10 yrs is nothing . And then we got to 15 and l started to think well maybe , maybe now l can just say little things but , so much for that.
But the worst part now is , l just don't feel l have the confidence or knowledge or experience anymore to help my daughter in any way to do with relationships when the time comes . And why would she even listen to me anyway we screwed ours up . She can't even ask her mum.
Thankfully l have a few more yrs to figure somem out if it ever is needed.
like you l feel l could help a son though but no sons so .
l honestly don't know what l'd say in that sitch , depends l suppose on the circumstances and the person.
But l do just feel like all my ways and ideas , thoughts , have all been turned on their head these days thanks to my break up .
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hawk-don't beat yourself up too bad.
One thing I am very curious of, and I know we will never find out....
MLC seems to be such a male dominate dis-ease, as evident by the sheer numbers of women on this forum. Us men are certainly a minority. So it looks like only a very small fraction of women actually go through MLC. Hopefully the odds are in your kids favor as long as they are taught not to "lose" themselves in another person, and not to get involved with someone who "needs fixing".
So, how did us men on this forum get so lucky as to end up with MLC wives?
-T
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Uk Law gives the woman 50% plus of the mans marital assets while letting her keep her own. I won't put myself in that position to lose what I have. (This is my own personal experience and may not relate to nationwide divorce statistics).
From a woman's point of view (or more likely mine): I will never have a close relationship with a man without marriage or at least a form of monthly allowance. When my MLCer left I ended up with nothing because I was never the greedy type. Even mistresses demand an apartment under their name and living expenses, at least the smart ones do. That was one lesson I took away with me.
If we are both fully independent then I guess there's no compelling reason for me to get married or even have a relationship beyond that of close friends. Kids, I can always have on my own. Men have learnt their lesson, so have women.
btw, in some countries, the woman has to give the man alimony if he's a house husband and she is the bread winner.
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I don't think that's true TN. Women initiate 2/3 of divorces today. IMO, there are many Christian women here, which accounts for most of the high numbers.
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I confess. I'm a lurker. Sorry guys. :P
I only lurk because well, patience said it quite well so we will just go with that.
But I will stay out of the discussion unless I can contribute something valuable.
And just so you know, although it shouldn't matter, its your cave, but I'm not easily offended and I have a huge potty mouth. I have to contain myself all the time so I don't offend anyone.
I think its great you have a place to put your feelings out there and your thoughts. Men and women are different, they think different, express themselves different. And all you guys are always kind and respectful to us girls on the board.
So I will just lurk occasionally and quietly.
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From a woman's point of view (or more likely mine): I will never have a close relationship with a man without marriage or at least a form of monthly allowance. When my MLCer left I ended up with nothing because I was never the greedy type. Even mistresses demand an apartment under their name and living expenses, at least the smart ones do. That was one lesson I took away with me.
If we are both fully independent then I guess there's no compelling reason for me to get married or even have a relationship beyond that of close friends. Kids, I can always have on my own. Men have learnt their lesson, so have women.
btw, in some countries, the woman has to give the man alimony if he's a house husband and she is the bread winner.
So what you are saying is, you can't be in an exclusive (possibly intimate) relationship with a man unless he gives you some kind of financial support? No offense, but that's basically prostitution, or maybe escort service, at best! But at least you are honest and I can appreciate that!
Agree that some countries, the woman pays. I just watched a clip from a talk show not too long ago where two women were paying their ex-husbands alimony. Both were very successful business women and were high income earners; both were American! Neither one felt they should have to pay!
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So what you are saying is, you can't be in an exclusive (possibly intimate) relationship with a man unless he gives you some kind of financial support? No offense, but that's basically prostitution, or maybe escort service, at best! But at least you are honest and I can appreciate that!
Yes, it beats doing charity. Does not taking money make me any less a prostitute when he walks away?
Even with alimony and 50% assets, the women here feel used and abused. Replaced. Imagine how I feel.
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Personally I think the child support I'm paying is a crock. I have my D 1/2 of the time and provide her with the same exact things ex does, a roof over her head, her own room, food, etc. Ex makes as much as I do. Yet it is all determined by a preset formula, a one size fits all outcome. I guarantee all that cs money doesn't go to D.
As for marriage, I'm a believer in it although I have to think twice (or 3 times) about it before doing so again. The laws in this country and issues about inheritance are certainly a concern.
Marriage used to be about security - financial, family, relational. But laws and cultural values shifting have stepped in and turned things upside down.
This wasn't by accident. TPTB (the powers that be) have pushed the values swing over the past 60 years and have created the very laws that divide men and women. Divorce is granted for any reason and the offender is rewarded rather than punished. Men are fearful to marry and women don't need to get married anymore. All the benefits are there without the commitment. The married know they can bail when things get tough, no penalty. Chance? No, design.
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So what you are saying is, you can't be in an exclusive (possibly intimate) relationship with a man unless he gives you some kind of financial support? No offense, but that's basically prostitution, or maybe escort service, at best! But at least you are honest and I can appreciate that!
Yes, it beats doing charity. Does not taking money make me any less a prostitute when he walks away?
Interesting point; can honestly say I don't really have a response at this time so I'll ponder it a bit.
Even with alimony and 50% assets, the women here feel used and abused. Replaced. Imagine how I feel.
Both genders feel used and abused; betrayed, belittled, ego crushed; self-esteem in the dirt. Yep, replaced too!
But, majority (not all) men have the added "luxury" of losing our kids, 50%-100% of assets and alimony. And some end up paying her attorney fees as well! The man loses everything and then becomes a financial slave; in some cases, for life! And there is no way to really know if the child support you pay is really going to the kids. It's not like you can say "hey, give me an itemized list of how you spent my money on little Johnny!"
I'm not saying this can't or doesn't happen to women; but it very rarely ever happens!
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But, majority (not all) men have the added "luxury" of losing our kids, 50%-100% of assets and alimony. And some end up paying her attorney fees as well! The man loses everything and then becomes a financial slave; in some cases, for life! And there is no way to really know if the child support you pay is really going to the kids. It's not like you can say "hey, give me an itemized list of how you spent my money on little Johnny!"
Yes, I agree that this is downright wrong. Well, this is the fallout for not upholding the sanctity of marriage. Laws of man will never find a satisfactory equilibrium. God joins, Man divides.
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Personally I think the child support I'm paying is a crock. I have my D 1/2 of the time and provide her with the same exact things ex does, a roof over her head, her own room, food, etc. Ex makes as much as I do. Yet it is all determined by a preset formula, a one size fits all outcome. I guarantee all that cs money doesn't go to D.
A good friend of mines parents divorced when he was younger. His dad kept a log book of everything he spent on them in addition to paying alimony. He actually opened a second account and put money in it strictly for the kids so he had a clean trail of expenditures. When the ex-wife got greedy and took him back to court, not only did she not get more alimony, the judge actually reduced it and eventually eliminated it. The log book and the account transaction records basically won the case for him.
As for marriage, I'm a believer in it although I have to think twice (or 3 times) about it before doing so again. The laws in this country and issues about inheritance are certainly a concern.
Marriage used to be about security - financial, family, relational. But laws and cultural values shifting have stepped in and turned things upside down.
Pre-nup and follow on post-nup. If she loves you for who you are, and has no intention of raking you later, then she will sign. If she throws a hissy fit, that's a serious red flag!
As for choosing and wading through the current cesspool, here are some "rules" as a good starting point for choosing a wife or an LTR for that matter. Of course these are subjective, and a couple near impossible at some of our ages, however, good women are still out there you just have to find them:
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2010/03/10-critical-things-in-how-to-choose-a-wife/ (http://marriedmansexlife.com/2010/03/10-critical-things-in-how-to-choose-a-wife/)
This wasn't by accident. TPTB (the powers that be) have pushed the values swing over the past 60 years and have created the very laws that divide men and women. Divorce is granted for any reason and the offender is rewarded rather than punished. Men are fearful to marry and women don't need to get married anymore. All the benefits are there without the commitment. The married know they can bail when things get tough, no penalty. Chance? No, design.
Those laws were originally enacted to protect women in the "Nuclear Family" era; when SAHM was the status quo and minimal women in the work force.
The Nuclear Family is dead! Women can rise as high as a man; anyone that says they can't needs to go do some research. In fact, female college attendance is higher than male. These laws don't apply anymore and need to be rewritten, but you can't get a lawmaker to look at it let alone touch it thanks to the libtards and the feminist machine!
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Just trying to sort out child support at the moment. It amazes me how different it is between countries. Where I come from both of us pay a percentage of our wages to other parent. Whoever earns more pays the difference - gender is not a factor. Once you have lived with someone more than 2 years matrimonial property is divided in half. I think this is fair - I don't want more and shouldn't be entitled to more than 50%
I can see why some of you think you have been treated unfairly - sorry you USA's I think your law sucks. Overdue for a rewrite I think!
Kia kaha - stay strong
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l'm afraid of that to Dj .
l use to feel l could help people out with marriage and relationship probs if they asked . And a lot did bc me and my ex were really looked up to , even by mu parents.
l remember thinking at 10 yrs though , ha , 10 yrs , l can't give anyone advice 10 yrs is nothing . And then we got to 15 and l started to think well maybe , maybe now l can just say little things but , so much for that.
But the worst part now is , l just don't feel l have the confidence or knowledge or experience anymore to help my daughter in any way to do with relationships when the time comes . And why would she even listen to me anyway we screwed ours up . She can't even ask her mum.
Thankfully l have a few more yrs to figure somem out if it ever is needed.
like you l feel l could help a son though but no sons so .
l honestly don't know what l'd say in that sitch , depends l suppose on the circumstances and the person.
But l do just feel like all my ways and ideas , thoughts , have all been turned on their head these days thanks to my break up .
OK here is my .02 about this.
I have learned so much about relationships and healthy marriages in the past 6 years that I have no problem giving my ADULT children marital advice if I choose too.
My son just got engaged and I gave him the book.
His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Williard Harley.
Once you are totally DETACHED it is much easier to look back at the situation and see it much more clearly.
Let GO of the ANGER and the EXPECTATIONS.
I think that is one of the most important things that you must learn.
MLC seems to be such a male dominate dis-ease, as evident by the sheer numbers of women on this forum. Us men are certainly a minority. So it looks like only a very small fraction of women actually go through MLC. Hopefully the odds are in your kids favor as long as they are taught not to "lose" themselves in another person, and not to get involved with someone who "needs fixing".
So, how did us men on this forum get so lucky as to end up with MLC wives?
There is an error in common logic and math here.
Just because this forum is dominated by woman does not mean that MLC is dominated by men going through it.
The DB forum is dominated by MEN.
There are other forums that are all MALE and mostly they are BITTER and ANGRY.
I have always liked it here much better.
As far as how you ended up with an MLC woman, luck.
Also you were conflict avoiding, codependent and enabling, as were most other LBS Male and Females on this forum.
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This will really hurt guys but we have no rules or papers telling us anything. We did it all ourselves , not even a lawyer .
Neither of us are greedy people or wanted to srcew the other , we just wanted the best we can do for our d like this.
She even payed out my car with her share of house money and we didn't get much , not much at all.
The house and blocks we owned to , we just made our deal for each other in it all.
There was stuff we had to sign and send into the family courts but that was all mutually agreed 50 50. with costs for my d and we just send it in.
Never been any issues we both seem to just speak up or offer up our share with big things and take care of our ends of thing with d.
She has my acc and l have hers . We'll each usually just throw money in the others if one of us owes something.
Ex just forked out 3 or 4grand for school stuff 2wks ago and hasn't even told me how much or what l owe yet . Which ;'ve also done myself a few times with big stuff. l actually asked her just before and she says oh yeah l'll figure it out when l get time - could be mths.
We're both like that or don't even bother 1/2 the time . lt really does keep the ugly out of all this sh@t .
lf l was broke tomorrow to all l'd have to do is drop ex a text and she'd drop in whatever l need to the acc or vise verse .
Works really well , no ugly , no hassle. If you can do just do it , really helps . All it needs is fair and good will , l guess is that's the toughy for some though , shame .
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Oh yea, I'm all over this thread! Love it! Love it! Love it!
I have always found the men to be extremely respectful when commenting on any of the women's threads. I've also been amazed how SIMILAR our feelings are. I was never comfortable around men, just didn't understand them and watched as much as I could, from afar.
MLC has been the equalizer in my opinion. I now see men as just as vulnerable and sensitive as any woman, in fact, more so in many ways.
Regarding finances, I feel sorry for both parties. In the old long term marriages, where plans were made and eagerly looked forward to, have now all been totally obliterated. The LBS is left with half the income of what he/she had expected. Often, the MLCer has found a partner who is making a very good income, enabling their lives to carry on prosperously. Others, just plain squander their pensions, savings, and salaries in an attempt to impress their new partner.
I don't think either sex comes out of this situation better off financially. It is just sad. The thing about the children, for the men with the MLC wife, it does seem you often end up without your children as much as you would like. Mainly because you honestly do not want to make your children PAWNS in this disgusting game. Again, this only shows how DECENT and SENSITIVE most men are. The MLC male, often doesn't want the children anymore, as it is the RESPONSIPILITIES they are actually walking away from. Some female MLCer's also do that. Read Ziggies' thread.
Nobody benefits from this my friends, other then MAYBE the MLCer, whether they are male or female, because more times then not, they have a second person contributing financially, whereas the LBS is usually left to struggle on alone. Try to keep that in mind.
As for remarrying, my problem with that, is it truly MUDDIES up the waters for our children. If we have any money/savings, if we remarry, half of that would go to our new spouse, sometimes all of it. They can then leave it all to THEIR children. My h is dealing with a situation like this, this very moment. She will not get his entire estate because they were in the process of a divorce and were only wed 3 months, when FIL(90 yrs. old, dying of Congestive Heart Failure and she knew it) decided he didn't like the arrangements. She was in fact as Black Widow.
Although she will not get much financial benefit from this situation, she still has added extra expense to an otherwise simple estate settlement. Now, because she will PROTEST the will, it will have to go to probate, which means the gov't will get more money, the lawyer will be paid more, as it will require his/her services and the Black Widow will undoubtedly get a few thousand as well. It's pretty messy!
Plus, for me, I don't want to live with another man. I don't want to cook or be cooked for, or clean or be cleaned up after, or share my home or his home/bed/bathroom. I don't want somebody else doing my laundry or me doing his. I don't want to share my children or grandchildren with a stranger, nor participate with his children or grandchildren. I guess I am just a selfish old cow. If anything happens to my h, I am done with a permanent live in partner. I would certainly seek out a companion/friend, but I have no desire to share much else, other then A GOOD TIME... with another! Just my opinion!
Vent away, get it out of your system. Hopefully, once the anger is purged the important business of REBUILDING yourselves will get started.
I have no intention of just LURKING. I am not shy of a naughty word. I know all the terminologies for both men and women... have used most of them myself. So don't worry about me. I hate double standards and will truly try not to do it myself. Can't promise I won't though, cause I got my QUIRKS too.
Hugs and this is an excellent idea OP... Stayed
P.S.- Just saw your comment Hawk.... wow, good for you! If only we saw more of that!
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Just because this forum is dominated by woman does not mean that MLC is dominated by men going through it.
The DB forum is dominated by MEN.
There are other forums that are all MALE and mostly they are BITTER and ANGRY.
I have always liked it here much better.
As far as how you ended up with an MLC woman, luck.
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I am not disbelieving you, but I sure would like to see some REAL statistics, along with historical graphs...
I can't help but wonder what percentage of the population went through MLC in the 40s? 50s? 60s? etc. I seem to recall this phenomenon is only a problem in westernized civilizations. I wish I could recall the sources, but it seems to me that it is mostly a systemic problem. I would garner a bet that back in the 40s and 50s VERY few women had MLCs. Of course they were more subservient back then (I'm not saying that it was RIGHT, its just the way it was). As women have gained more rights and freedoms over the decades, they have also gained the same pressures and stresses that men do when it comes to money, career, etc. I bet a historical graph would be very telling.
Again, I think a lot of it is a "system" issue. We are taught to be competitive; to "keep up with the Jones". We have it drilled in us that success=happiness. Hell, ever seen the show "Weeds"? I LOVE the intro to that show. I think it says a LOT. Once we hit mid life, we wonder why in the hell did we waste a lot of time on what essentially amounts to "pursuit of the unobtainable American dream".
I know I am talking out of my butt, its early; haven't had my coffee yet. But I honestly do believe it to be a "western" problem.
-T
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I agree and it's spreading though.
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Lets take it a step further...
How many species are monogamous for life? Was man supposed to be? I know that is what we were TAUGHT. But what is our "reptilian" brain programmed for? And what IS the origin of marriage? I honestly do not know, but will take a guess that it has its roots based in religion. Obviously I am not religious at all (but I'm not an atheist either), but now I can't help but wonder if "marriage" goes against the very nature of our natural instincts. In other words, we are taught one thing, our bodies want to do another-no wonder it stings so bad when things go south.
-T
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I have also WONDERED about that Tint. All that myth about Beavers and Geese remaining with one partner their entire lives... BULL DROPPING! Genealogy has proven otherwise! Something else I saw that utterly horrified me, we were at lake full of ducks, geese, all manner of fowls. Anyway, we saw this swarm of ducks, and they were fighting over something, at least that is how it looked. We went closer and to our horror, it was a bunch of mallards, fighting over a little female mallard. We couldn't believe she didn't drown, eventually she escaped. But we are pretty sure, she was being gang raped!
So much for those LOVELY Disney movies I grew up with. I have seen it happen since that time. I feel completely LIED to. I had always said, that we should not compare HUMANS to the animal kingdom, it was an insult to animals. That animals did not KILL or rape, just for the thrill of it. Turns out, I was mislead... animals do rape and do kill for no good reason.
I don't know what to believe anymore TinT...
Hugs Stayed
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I can't help but wonder what percentage of the population went through MLC in the 40s? 50s? 60s? etc. I seem to recall this phenomenon is only a problem in westernized civilizations. I wish I could recall the sources, but it seems to me that it is mostly a systemic problem. I would garner a bet that back in the 40s and 50s VERY few women had MLCs.
On BBC radio 4 there is a programme called woman's hour - it has been running for years. It has moved from the domestic tips to really good discussions about everything and I mean everything. It did a section on mid life crisis. It was a bit glib and superficial but one of the comments on there was from an older woman (in her 60s) who talked about her father disappearing for a couple of years when she was in her late teens and the only thing her mother said was that it was "normal" men did this kind of thing when they got to a certain age. Her father came back and she now understood that he had an OW - lived with her but carried on as normal and then returned to his family after a few years. This lady said that it happened to quite a few of her friends as they were growing up but everyone was stoical about it and accepted it as the "norm"
Just to throw that in there- maybe we are less stoic than our previous generations - may be the fact that we all have to be in touch with our feelings or we aren't human is actually doing us a disservice.
Maybe expectations are too high on both sides. Women can break through the glass ceiling, be fit and sexy, have many children, keep the home immaculate and be financially independent - the same way that men are expected to be in a financially rewarding job, an excellent housekeeper, a loving hands on father, does the cooking, keeps fit and sexy, is romantic all the time, in touch with his softer side etc...etc.....
I am not dismissing any of those attributes - I just think that we place too much pressure on ourselves and when MLC hits it ups the ante and we struggle to think we have to be all those things for successful relationships. Not so - to thine own self be true.
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Stayed-WOW, since you stood for your marriage and it worked out, honestly you were the last person I would believe would have an open mind like that. I do believe there are always exceptions to the rule (that some people bond for life), but now I just can't help but wonder if what we are TAUGHT goes against what we really ARE.
S&D-Interesting; I have no doubt it happened back in the day, but I'll bet as time marched on MLC increased in frequency. Also, back in the day I'll bet very FEW women ever did such a thing. I'm sure a lot of them might have wanted to. Again, would LOVE to see some historical data. I also wonder how many women back in the day "wanted to run", but were able to refrain from it. I look at my own sitch-My mom and dad from the best I can tell had a "loveless" marriage (although now that dad has past, mom swears she loved him). However they never divorced, and my mom never remarried. She can make excuses all she wants about not meeting the right man, etc-the REAL reason she never remarried is she would lose that military pension.
Oh, this might upset the applecart a little bit-PLEASE, no disrespect intended, but I wonder how many "returning" MLCers really just come to the conclusion that there is no better options out there, and finally return and accept the life they had and the benefits that go along with it. Again, just looking at my own sitch-I doubt my w will ever want to come back (although EVERYONE seems to think she will one day). *IF* she ever decides to, I already know when it will be: About six years from now, after the money is all gone, the thrill is over, and she sees the life ahead into old age is less stellar than the one we would have had together. I stand to potentially get a decent inheritance when my mom passes. I'll be damned if I get raked over the coals again.
Sorry, getting out in left field now with my own sitch...-EDIT- But I will say this: Sorry, you don't treat me like crap, bad mouth me, make me fight for my kids, waste what I have worked so hard for for 20 years, then come back and say "I'm sorry; let's spend the rest of our lives together because I now know we were meant to be together" and live the rest of your life in comfort. Nope, not gonna happen. Then again, maybe I'm just in the anger stage LOL -END EDIT-
-T
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Let's see...
financially rewarding job - check
housekeeper - check
hands on father - check
cooking - check
fit and sexy - check
romantic - check
softer side - check
*Bonus* I have a wardrobe that MLC'ers can only wish they had.
OK, why am I single? :P
TN, if W thinks she can come back and things be the same as they were, she'll find the door locked. One thing I've discovered during all this is that I want a better marriage than I had. I'm willing to do the work and so must she.
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TN, if W thinks she can come back and things be the same as they were, she'll find the door locked. One thing I've discovered during all this is that I want a better marriage than I had. I'm willing to do the work and so must she.
I know that no one knows the future, and w is so prideful that she may never want to, but I was just saying *IF* she comes to that decision, I already know when and why.
Here is something about me that could probably use some mirror work, but I will NOT change it. I like who I am, but I do have one serious character flaw:
I am the MOST EASY GOING person on the planet. Since I am such a conflict avoider and a pleaser, I get along with EVERYONE. I've never met an enemy. Also, I am very logical, and keep my emotions in check (until MLC that is). Even on the rare occasions where there was unrest in the household, I was always the one to keep a level head and work things out to keep the peace. Someone else has the nickname, but mine prior to MLC should have been "patience of a saint". Also, not tooting my own horn, but everyone likes me and looks up to me because I am very smart.
So the flaw...
When you wrong me and FINALLY cross that line (and it takes a LOT to do), you wrong me for LIFE. I am so easy going and trusting to the point of nativity, that if you do stab me in the back, I hold PERMANENT grudges. There is usually NO forgiveness. I didn't speak to my own mother for twenty years after a falling out when my dad passed away, and the ONLY reason we r is because my sister-in-law after MUCH convincing suggested I reach out.
I know this is a horrible way to live I guess, but my thing is you have my full friendship, trust, and respect. I also realize everyone makes mistakes, so I forgive a LOT (too much), but when that line gets crossed, that's the end of the road for me.
-T
-EDIT- Guess I should add a little disclaimer. I am not mad AT the wife for MLC, or even the affair. I know most guys have a hard time forgiving infidelity; to me its no big deal. Its just sex. Its carnal. Its instinctive. What I just can't get past is the sheer nastiness from someone who I have bent over backwards to please my entire life. I am not perfect, but I have been nothing but nice our entire r. How you can be such a b!tc# to someone you supposedly cared about for 20+ years for NO REAL GOOD REASON is what I have a hard time swallowing.-END EDIT-
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Menow, u r single for the same reason lots of us are. You chose to be! At least at the moment. Like u im fit, well dressed, successful, cook etc. Not to sound conceded but I feel like I'm in the "upper 25%" lol! And u know what??? It's that confidence and swagger that women find attractive IMO. MeNow let me ask u this... Are u living your life in a way that is condusive to meeting someone new? What I mean is are you truly done with your ex or are you still putting some energy into that lost R? I'm not judging u as I am still putting much mental/emotional energy into my failing marriage. My point is that until we truly move on we are not likely to attract a new relationship. I highly doubt anyone here will have a hard time finding another relationship once they truly let go, find their confidence and put themselves out there.
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TN try not to look at that as a flaw! Think of it as you have boundaries and protect yourself once you have reached your limit. I'm like u... I get along with most everyone but push me far enough and u no longer exist to me. Granted it takes a ton to get me to that point but once the line is crossed its crossed for good. I suggest you reframe that in your mind as a strength. If you feel like the conflict avoidance is extreme than work on it and turn it into a strength as well. You are way ahead of most people in simply recognizing it!
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Can I just add a comment on the bad boy thing.
Hell I would rather have a man that would like to spend time with family instead of a bar room any day. Someone that treats you with respect, is loving and thinks of me only, not a dozen other chicks or whatever walks by. A man that works a real job not just for money either,but someone who's not a lazy a$$ bum. A good,decent man is better than some jerk.
Another thing. Why would someone share comments with anyone's spouse or whatever , from here.? I can understand talking with members from here. We've all made friends here,but to tell info to someone outside here is wrong!
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Menow, u r single for the same reason lots of us are. You chose to be! At least at the moment. Like u im fit, well dressed, successful, cook etc. Not to sound conceded but I feel like I'm in the "upper 25%" lol! And u know what??? It's that confidence and swagger that women find attractive IMO. MeNow let me ask u this... Are u living your life in a way that is condusive to meeting someone new? What I mean is are you truly done with your ex or are you still putting some energy into that lost R? I'm not judging u as I am still putting much mental/emotional energy into my failing marriage. My point is that until we truly move on we are not likely to attract a new relationship. I highly doubt anyone here will have a hard time finding another relationship once they truly let go, find their confidence and put themselves out there.
That's correct. I'm not quite done with W yet. I believe my family intact is the best outcome but I also think if I met the right person I might go for it. My kids is what seems to hold me back the most.
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Another thing. Why would someone share comments with anyone's spouse or whatever , from here.? I can understand talking with members from here. We've all made friends here,but to tell info to someone outside here is wrong!
I was curious about that as well, but I'm not on the alt. Isn't that facebook or something? I work in I.T. but don't do social media so I have NO IDEA about myface, spacebook, or whatever they are calling it these days LOL.
-T
-EDIT- Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, coffee. ;D
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Well I guess I will join in the fun now. TN..I also have that same flaw. I'm too easy going. I will do anything for anyone, but once you cross my line and only I know when that is, I'm done. DJ, I could also easily be put in the top 25% and if I chose, could have hooked up with several women at this point in my separation. But here's the thing in my sitch and many sitches I've read.....my W didnt go for better. She settled for the first person she could manipulate. He is an affair down in every sense of the word. It amazes me to see what she has given up for what she has now. She has dealt with abuse and abandonment all her life not only from her Father, but by her 1st husband. When I came along, she put me on a pedestal, but was very insecure. Everywhere we went, people would look at us (we are a good looking couple). Over time kids and life got in the way. I didn't make her priority. Due to her abandonment issues and her insecurities I honestly believe she thought I was either cheating or about too, so she found a willing participant and started her affair. She figured she would hurt me before I could hurt her. Problem is I'm not dating or seeing anyone and she is in a relationship with someone she could give a sh@t less about. So if and when I do move on, she will go crazy, because I will not settle for less than I know what I deserve. In her depression, she has definitely settled.
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Another thing. Why would someone share comments with anyone's spouse or whatever , from here.? I can understand talking with members from here. We've all made friends here,but to tell info to someone outside here is wrong!
I was curious about that as well, but I'm not on the alt. Isn't that facebook or something? I work in I.T. but don't do social media so I have NO IDEA about myface, spacebook, or whatever they are calling it these days LOL.
-T
Definitely not cool.
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Hmmm, guess I am the odd one out when it comes to the guys here for sure. I am seeing someone now. Do we LOVE each other? No, but we sure like each other an aweful lot. We enjoy time together, and make each other laugh, which I very much need these days. Not sure where our r is headed, but we are just taking things a day at a time. Our r has a dynamic that I am not used to for sure. We are more than a FWB couple, but less than a young "in love" couple.
Its funny, I was looking at OP's profile trying to find his story since he is like that fly on the wall that's been here for a while, and I landed on a thread that is now archived where it was said that you should NOT engage into another r because it could ruin any chances of reconciliation. I found that odd. Let me get this straight-its okay for your MLC spouse to engage in a physical/emotional r with another person, but don't you dare do it, because they may never forgive you for it? I don't buy it.
Everyone is different, and in my case-I really can't say what the future will hold. I may have a complete change of heart should w want to come back. But for now, I am living "for me" and taking things day by day. I no longer give head space into what I "should do" to pave the way for w's return. If it happens it happens, if it don't, it don't. Life goes on.
There are still days where the overall sitch it still overwhelming though, but they are getting fewer and further inbetween.
-T
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I do have female friends and we talk about everything and laugh a lot, however I'm careful not to go further than that. No need to hurt anyone when I'm not serious about an intimate R.
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I do have female friends and we talk about everything and laugh a lot, however I'm careful not to go further than that. No need to hurt anyone when I'm not serious about an intimate R.
Understood. In our case, we are on the same page; we have both been hurt, and don't want to hurt anyone. Its hard to explain, but right now I think what we like about our r is simply the companionship more than anything. We have had some serious talks, and I didn't just "jump right in bed" (although she was willing-I put the brakes on it), but we are both at exactly the same point in our lives.
-T
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Tnt....you have to do what's right for you. The saying goes "Broken attracts Broken". You need time to heal yourself and get healthy before you can find someone healthy. Example: I have been out GALing and on 2 occasions at 2 different places, I have been approached by 2 women who took an interest in me and gave me their number. After talking to them further, both are MARRIED. What is this world coming too!
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You are probably right. And I really hate to sound like an a$$ about it all, but sorry, I am not about to sit around the house drooling in front of Netflix in my spare time. I am primarily a "homebody". So is she. Guess what-we are getting out and doing things together that we wouldn't normally go out and do on our own. Is that so bad? I don't think so. We know where each other stand, we don't know what the future holds, and both of us have zero expectations. We are just enjoying each day of life, and accept whatever happens. As a bonus, she is fiercely independent and NEEDS no one in her life. She is older and past all this midlife BS.
-T
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Guess I should add maybe I sound hypocritical in some respects. If you followed my story you know that I had my own little MLC back in 2009. I went to go visit old flame ONE time, and so you could say I had a one sided EA. Therefore I should be MORE understanding of this process than most. I had ENORMOUS guilt over that, BELIEVE ME. But as was pointed out to me by several people that know of my story, although I COULD have been the one to blow apart our life, I WASN'T the one that did it.
Looking back, I was really unhappy with life. But you know what-I blamed society, I blamed the government, I blamed capitalism, I blamed the 1%ers, I blamed my job. You know who I NEVER blamed for my unhappiness? MY WIFE.
-T
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Nothing wrong with it TN. Who knows, it could turn into something more serious and if that's what you both want, great.
People here just giving a different perspective, which is a good thing. One thing for sure, take your time.
Your W might be the first one running back.
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Dunno how it works for you guys but I’ve not been with anyone other that xW in the last 20 years. I don’t think I’m ready for anything too deep but I am ready to say go out with a lady to a movie, or a drink or something low key like that.
Anyway a couple of things happened on a group night out that we had for the gang I hang with at the gym. One of the ladies recently divorce in the same time frame as me, I asked her out on a date, other members of the gang saw us talking together and were gently teasing us. she didn’t say no but said we could talk more when less people are around. The ironic thing was she spent the rest of the evening with one of the other guys, the rest of the gang are not sure if they got a thing going on or if she just leans on him for emotional support. As she said to me her life is a bit complicated at the moment.
The other that happened on the night was one of the guys was being a total ass, he actually offended all of the ladies with his antics but that is a story for our little social group. Anyway he was loud and drunk and boasting about his sexual prowess, anyway he was asking people when was the last time they had sex. Now this is only something I discuss on this forum, but the drink I had acted as some sort of truth serum and I said “more than 2 years”. We’ll that was it he was running round telling everyone “Lanzo not’s had sex for2 years”, “I can’t go 2 days without sex”. Dunno I kina felt embarrassed, but really guys should I feel embarrassed and how would any of you deal with this situation.
Lanzo
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Lanzo,
In my mind, its NOTHING to be ashamed of. Matter of fact you should be PROUD of that fact in my mind. You show enormous self-restraint. I am wiling to bet you *could* have sex if you wanted to-but knowing when YOU are ready is empowering.
My own sitch-Lady friend had way too much to drink on the first date. We ended up naked in my bed (long story). I refrained somehow (I wasn't ready). I think she was actually a little upset by that. Next day, she thanked me for it. I think it blew her away that I didn't take advantage of her in the moment when I easily could have.
-T
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That guy was full of that brown smelly stuff.
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While on the subject of sex, and God I can't believe I am even going to admit to this...
I used to have a problem with being....how can I put this....a "minute man". Since separation, I had two "one nighters". I never had problems "rising to the occasion", but found I had the OPPOSITE problem. I couldn't "finish". Hell, even trying to "take care of myself" is too much like work these days. That's pretty bad when no matter how much you try, if you can't get yourself off, there is a SERIOUS problem. I reached a point I just gave up.
The point is, when we are younger, if the wind blows in the right direction, that is about all it takes to get us guys off. However now I find if there isn't SOME kind of connection, its pretty much mute point.
WAAAAAAYYYYYY TMI, but am I the only one that had that "problem"?
-T
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Tnt,
Earlier you asked about our species and if we are programmed for pair binding for life. Ie monogamy. You might enjoy the book Sex at Dawn.
The whole jist of that book is to conclude we aren't. We are built for primary pair bonding with secondary side action. Or an open marriage.
They spend a lot of time discussing primate biology. For examples, gorillas do not pair bond. The silver back alpha only tolerates juvinile males and basically runs a harem. The male doesn't need to display or worry about sperm competition so despite being a 400 lb beast, his Pen!$ is the size of your pinky, and his testes are inside, he doesn't have a biological imprritive to air condition his sperm for multiple orgasms with sperm competition for other men. The females in his harem also do not use vocalization.
Now I am a spiritual man and I would argue this "normal conditioning" is our sinful base nature--I aspire to something more than that. Further, I would argue that birth control and sexual liberation have weekend key support pillars in our culture for successful monogamy.
If you aren't a reader there's a short podcast I can send to you. Pm me.
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Now I am a spiritual man and I would argue this "normal conditioning" is our sinful base nature--I aspire to something more than that. Further, I would argue that birth control and sexual liberation have weekend key support pillars in our culture for successful monogamy.
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I absolutely respect your values and viewpoints, and I appreciate the information. What you just said basically confirms my thoughts: We are TAUGHT to go against our very nature. If your FAITH is strong enough and you have the FEAR OF GOD, than you might be able to refrain from your natural instincts. However, due to the erosion of our morals (based on biblical faith), "nature" wins over "nurture" more often than not, and is why we have the sheer number of affairs that we do.
I am not agreeing with, or disagreeing with the assessment. But question for you-if you took religion out of the equasion -would marriage essentially be obsolete?
-T
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Well, that may work for some or even most men, but what about the women? Men are very territorial and women can be jealous. Most of us are here today because "nature" won out over nurture.
We are also higher than apes. They shouldn't be our role models.
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We are also higher than apes. They shouldn't be our role models.
True, we ARE, but you cannot ignore "the basic instinct" that has been programmed into us. Well, again my personal belief is that if you have enough FAITH you possibly can (but lets face it, how many "bible thumpers" that you know of ended up in an affair themselves)-but it doesn't remove the desire. Its like the "fight or flight" instinct that is all engrained in us all.
I know religion is a DANGEROUS subject, and I should steer clear, but I have seen WAAAAY too many what I refer to as "Sunday Christians" and it drives me up a wall.
-T
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Yes, it's a tricky subject but this is the MAN CAVE. I think we're talking about the same thing though.
What you call basic instinct is our sin nature. Desire is temptation. The affair is sin.
Christians fare as badly as anyone else morally that's for sure but that is a reflection on them, not God.
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Yep T
In my mind, its NOTHING to be ashamed of. Matter of fact you should be PROUD of that fact in my mind. You show enormous self-restraint. I am wiling to bet you *could* have sex if you wanted to-but knowing when YOU are ready is empowering.
-T
Yep, I know I probably could.
However now I find if there isn't SOME kind of connection, its pretty much mute point.
-T
Same here, if I don't feel something for a woman then nothing literally will happen.
Lanzo
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Take your experiences with religious people and personal biases out of it. Look at the arc of human history in the last 2000 years. Cultures that promoted Monogamy thrived and you could easily argue it was a competitive advantage. A personal sacrifice for the greater good. But the pillars that supported it are now gone and it's foolish to pretend otherwise.
Btw, tnt, both forms of sexual performance you described are essentially the same problem. They stem from a lack of immersion in the moment. There's an interesting sex guide book you can find for free floating around called Sex God Method. I give it five stars. It is not about technique. It explains how sex is mainly a brain focused event.
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Take your experiences with religious people and personal biases out of it. Look at the arc of human history in the last 2000 years. Cultures that promoted Monogamy thrived and you could easily argue it was a competitive advantage. A personal sacrifice for the greater good. But the pillars that supported it are now gone and it's foolish to pretend otherwise.
Hmmmm, interesting that you chose going back 2000 years...go back a little further. You could easily say that cultures that promoted Polygamy thrived as well, and had its advantages.
I hate to have such a crude view of marriage now, but what advatanges are there any more? Well, it greatly reduces the chances of getting a (potentially deadly) STD, and it has financial advantages in our modern society.
Aside from that, do you REALLY NEED that piece of paper to enter into a committed r?
-T
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Okay, I am really getting out there I know (hell, I am the only one up here...still drinking my coffee), but here is something that REALLY bothers me in modern society:
In hindsight, I should have chosen to marry someone in the same economic class as myself: Why-because I was a "have", and my wife was a "have not". I do NOT discount the contributions she brought to the m, but based on our current d laws, I am going to lose WAY more than she will. At least if my w was of the same economic level as me, then splitting assets would yield the same financial fallout as if I was single. As it turns out, I am going to be WAY worse off than if I was single, and she is going to benefit way MORE than if she was single.
Don't get me wrong, I did NOT have the attitude that marriage was all about finances; obviously I married because of what I felt in my heart; but now I question everything.
-T
-EDIT- Not sure if that came out the right way. Let me put it like this: She contributed 25% or less to our household income. I contributed the remaining 75% or greater; and for the women working, yes...I know there is more to it than money, but why is it that she will walk away with 50% of the assets? ESPECIALLY considering she was "done", and I wasn't at the time?
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Not to be crude --I know you were in love-- but didn't the youn TNT realize that it was a trade off. We all have a sexual market place value. Picking someone of higher economic value probably would mean and significant drop in other value related factors. For example-- no sense of humor. :-)
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Not to be crude --I know you were in love-- but didn't the youn TNT realize that it was a trade off. We all have a sexual market place value. Picking someone of higher economic value probably would mean and significant drop in other value related factors. For example-- no sense of humor. :-)
Honestly I never gave it a seconds thought. I just went with what was in my heart. Then again I, probably like EVERYONE else here, thought it was "forever" and d wouldn't happen to me. Naive.
To expand on my financial b!tc#ing above-Something else that kills me: OM is as financially depressed as w is as far as income earning potential. At this stage in her life, MLC, or whatever...since she is "in love" with this guys, AND she is going to end up with 50% of the assets, and probably a steady income due to CS and Alimony, who is ultimately going to benefit from all the years of my hard work? He Is. That burns me. Sorry, our d laws are whacked. If there is someone waiting in the wings who could potentially benefit financially from another's fallout-that REALLY needs consideration in the court room. Of course, I guess there is no way to PROVE one's true motives, but that is my GUT feeling anyway.
-T
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Alright, since I have ate up about 3 or 4 pages of this thread already, I will step off my soap box for a while. I will just leave with this final thought:
I think its painfully obvious my anger and bitterness is showing through. But here is the thing: I am not angry AT my wife, and I don't HATE her. Actually, I don't really blame her for a lot of the things I am feeling right now.
The fact that she is going to gain financially from d-I blame "the system" for that, and not her.
The fact that I think OM has a hidden agenda: Don't blame her there either. Love is blind.
I don't hate her at all. I just don't particularly want to have anything more to do with her. As I said earlier, I GET the MLC; I DON'T get the nastiness aimed in my direction. I can't figure out what I did, and probably never will. I know, I know, its "projecting". I jokingly said one time in my thread I did not used to believe in alien abduction until MLC. But its not like they are having out-of-body experiences. They DO have control of their actions, and they DO have control over their emotions. I mean seriously, if "temporary insanity due to MLC" isn't a valid court room defense, then its not a valid defense for treating someone like sh!t either.
So as I said, don't hate her; do hate her actions and verbalizations towards me, so I choose to to put her in the same group as the very few people in my life that "crossed that line".
-T
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While on the subject of sex, and God I can't believe I am even going to admit to this...
I used to have a problem with being....how can I put this....a "minute man". Since separation, I had two "one nighters". I never had problems "rising to the occasion", but found I had the OPPOSITE problem. I couldn't "finish". Hell, even trying to "take care of myself" is too much like work these days. That's pretty bad when no matter how much you try, if you can't get yourself off, there is a SERIOUS problem. I reached a point I just gave up.
The point is, when we are younger, if the wind blows in the right direction, that is about all it takes to get us guys off. However now I find if there isn't SOME kind of connection, its pretty much mute point.
Women have this problem also - as we mature it's all about the head. If that's not in the right space nothing works like it should!
Kia Kaha - stay strong
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Tnt....you have to do what's right for you. The saying goes "Broken attracts Broken". You need time to heal yourself and get healthy before you can find someone healthy. Example: I have been out GALing and on 2 occasions at 2 different places, I have been approached by 2 women who took an interest in me and gave me their number. After talking to them further, both are MARRIED. What is this world coming too!
When we GAL we are essentially doing things to improve ourselves, fix our issues, mentally and physically. We all seem to hit the gym, maybe we volunteer, do things to meet new people, become more of an extrovert insread of introvert in a lot of cases. Maybe we get back into an old hobby. In the end, it seems a lot of us get back to who and what we were when we met our spouse.....usually it is a better, more refined and mature version. Maybe we were already successful or we become more successful.
Well, fellas, in the end all of that makes us a more attractive person. Add in the fact that through GAL, we end up getting oir self esteem, ego and confidence back. when you are feeling good about yourself, carrying your self with confidence and have that "strut and swagger" about you, it can be seen!
I guarantee, you were displaying quality traits and it can be seen and attracted these women. Both of them saw you as a potential "catch" and quite possibly they saw you as better than what they have. Their natural hypergamy kicked in, either because of a perceived higher social status, perceived higher physical atraction, perceived higher financial status, or any combination of these! In short, they are willing to branch swing on there perception of getting a better deal!
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...Hell, even trying to "take care of myself" is too much like work these days. That's pretty bad when no matter how much you try, if you can't get yourself off, there is a SERIOUS problem.....
By the way, my song of the day: Rosie by Jackson Browne: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZBSQG6hWVI
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...Hell, even trying to "take care of myself" is too much like work these days. That's pretty bad when no matter how much you try, if you can't get yourself off, there is a SERIOUS problem.....
By the way, my song of the day: Rosie by Jackson Browne: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZBSQG6hWVI
AC/DC - Whole Lotta Rosie
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Gwr-VrNFM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Gwr-VrNFM)
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Lanzo, if I recall correctly u have your daughter most of the time? Or at least u did for much of the last 2 years?? I have my kids (5&9) about 75% of the time. This is not an ideal set up as it relates to having much of a sex life with new women. I have Wednesday, Thursday and every other Sunday night without my children. They are my priority... Sex life will have to wait. Not ideal but what am I to do? Both my parents remarried... One was a really bad experience. I don't plan to introduce my kids to any women, especially while they are young. So while I consider myself in the upper 25% im not very available
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Good Q Elray. I have a 5 y/o son and 9 y/o daughter. As for my son I will not advise him unless he asks when that time comes. I will tell him the truth about the disadvantages of marriage and let him form his own opinion. The real question is how would i advise my daughter??? I think she deserves the same truths as my son and she should make decisions that benefit her with all the facts. Fortunately they are young and I have a long time before I need to worry about those issues for them.
Truth is the best thing I can do is raise to have good self esteem and not feel the need to fix other people. I already try to teach them they are not responsible for anyone else hapoiness and that they shouldn't feel the need to fight for someones love.
Here's a question to all the dads out there... What would u tell your sons/daughters to do if they were married to someone having an affair and MLC??
I would educate a son by offering some basic relationship books, such as 5 love languages and otsofs of that type. But more importantly, I woild make sure a good helping of "red pill" information was at his fingertips. I too woild give him the cold hard reality of marriage and the potential cost he would burden!
The big dliemma for a man is properly guiding his daughter! How do you, as a man, raise your daughter to get back to traditional qualties; how to not end up with a spoiled sense of self-entitlement driven by hypergamy. How to learn to care for herself; emotionally, physically, financially and only enter into a relationship for someone she actually cares for equally and for the right reasons and not look at him as an asset and a means to sn end! How do you ensure they dont emulate the piss poor example set by there mothers and other signifigant women in there lives.
Figure that one out!
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Hi DJ,
At the moment I have my daughter 90% of the time and she has been my primary focus so I haven’t had much time for anything else.
xW gets her house next month (I think) and D wants to go live there (mainly to keep the peace and to get a bigger bed room), so I will have more time on my hands and maybe, maybe meet someone special. But that someone will be for me and not someone to integrate or be around D13, although D has said she would be ok with me having a girlfriend.
So while I could sleep with woman, I will have to feel something special for them before that happens.
Lanzo
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There is a great book out there as an audio CD about the Economics of Marriage (Spousonomics) - the authors do see the business aspects of the contract and lay it out as to the pros and cons and how people get into trouble.
I would advise a prenup. I would have been utterly up the creek without one. Even with one, ex tried to break it.
Nowadays, even if you are past child bearing/raising years, our nation´s healthcare system sets up advantages for married couples. The cost of healthcare in our golden years is going to make or break our standard of living. The tax system also favors married couples over singles. A prenup can avoid the problems of children from prior marriages being financially slighted while bringing advantages to the couple. Never in a million years did I think ex would become an ex, so if I were to marry again, I´d have to accept that I could be blindsided again. At least I now know how to scrape myself up and off the floor. I refuse to allow his MLC to destroy my ability to trust others who have not betrayed me. I think LBSers are very loyal people- who else would hang on through the BS thrown at us for merely existing and still have hope of a reconciliation long after most folks have slammed the door and divorced? Mr. ex is a vanisher, still mentally unstable and I have let go- still treasure who he was, avoid who he is and do carry a level of fear for my safety. I think even his own FOO is starting to realize/admit that he is unstable. As one who has reached the other shore- protect your health, safety and finances. Don´t assume that your MLCer won´t stoop "that" low.
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Quote from: Darth Obo on January 31, 2015, 10:13:37 AM
Great thread guys and good start so far. For the ladies who have responded positively and are lookinginfor some Iinsight to how we think, feel and express then welcome.
So glad to finally see a place like this on HS.
However, for personal reasons, I will be bowing out; not just from tbe thread, but HS completely. This is for a couple reason:
1) I feel the direction I am going and at the stage I am at now, I have outgrown it or otherwise need to get on with my new life.
2) some recent events that have occured around the HS community have given me cause for concern about the safety and privacy of information and topics I have disclosed about my personal, life and situation. I fear that data could be exposed and used as a weapon against me. These concerns were brought up multiple times by more than one person but I feel they were not properly addressed or otherwise ignored.
WARNING - If you are a part of the alt chat thread, beware.....there are members there that keep records of the chats and have threatened to use these against members by sending it to their spouses! Until this is addressed and corrected.....you are not safe there!!!!
I wish all of you the very best and peace to all of you! Perhaps I may return down the road to check in.....maybe not.
Thanks to all of you for the support and comradiere!
Now, to go rule the Galaxy in proper Sith form! ;)
Darth Obo
So I think this warning should be reiterated here one more time. Since this is the MAN CAVE. These threats were made to men of this group (forum) by a woman neither of them know. They only came into contact with her via the fellowship chat, and have never met her personally. One of the threats I received myself, many it was a threat to a man to contact his employer and threaten his livelihood. This man did NOTHING to her and she is obviously a very lonely, bitter, and angry woman. She took innocent chat conversations and COPIED and SAVED them. I do not want to discourage anyone from getting support and speaking their truth. This forum and the friends I made BECAUSE a of that very chat room and helped save my life and sanity. I just think you need to tread carefully until you really learn the character of our new friends. Consider this my HEADS UP guys.
PS: Most of the ladies here.......we are true KEEPERS....and pretty hot and sexy to boot
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That's one of my biggest worries Hatter.
l even worry how it appears to my d , me still being nice to W when d knows what W did to our family and to me.
l worry that l'm an example of just let your spouse sh@t in your face and then be nice to them.
l worry to that bc W and me don't bad mouth each other at all , l actually say nice things about her ,but l worry that's just gonna be more of the same for my d.
l know , l'm doing it for my d so that her child hood can still be as nice and together as poss' under these circumstances and working with her mum is the best way to get that.
And because l won't have my innocent in allof this daughter be the meat in the sandwich or pawn , or grow up watching her own parents bitter and hating each other .
And because l caused a lot of it to and hurt her mum a lot and yeah this wasn't the answer but stuff did happen.
And l worry to , that l look like a bit of a sucker to her when here's mum , she was seeing om around my d , but here's me , still alone and when there has been someone l will not have them around my d yet so that looks to d as if l'm just the loser sitting around alone .
l do really worry about all that stuff , Because yeah on the other side of the coin , it is achieving everything l hoped it would for my d's childhood in this . She's relaxed and happy these days and there's no knife cutting atmosphere when mum and dad are in the same room. No spite , no b@tching , hating, no arguments, or my d getting torn this way and that . And there's no rigid time table that an innocent 13yr old has to uphold and live while she's trying to house hop for the rest of her childhood. There's give and take and all very easy going right across the lot , nothings in stone except that we still love her more than anything in this world and she still has all her family just as much as she did before . We can all and d especially , come and go any time we want.
There's none of any of that . Sometimes it's as if we are still a family only we just weren't getting along so we're just sort of a bit separate now . W even sends me long text and lots of photos all day long of d heading of to start at her new school , l could even be right there with her and w all together if l wanted but d was already stressed enough as it was and had lots to get ready so l didn't.
And if life has to be this way for her , l can say she must have the best separated family and set up l've seen anywhere and if it was gonna be like this then that's what we wanted for her , the best we could make it.
BUT , the other side of the coin are the things l mentioned and sometimes l really worry about the example that must be setting and how it could appear to my d.
l'm still trying to figure out if l've got that part right or if it is way way wrong !
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Hawk, I think she will see that you are taking the high road and being honorable. I have a friend who rails on me all the time b/c she thinks I am being too nice to H. I have actually discussed it with my Ds(they are slightly older than yours) and they are very appreciative and admiring of my behavior. I think your D will see your strong character and kindness as a good model for behavior and love her dad all the more for trying to make things better for her.
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This thread is primarily for men.
I will be the primary moderator for this thread.
It is my thread and I will set the rules.
There was a thread on DB called this and it did not go well,
we also had a thread here close(for post length) and I am gathering their were some hurt feelings.
I know that their are men here who feel that they have been persecuted and
that they are not manly enough.
Women please enter this thread at your own risk.
Their may be some rough stuff going on this thread,
I really can not predict that.
However I feel like the men here need a place to voice their concerns, vent etc.
The forum will automatically edit any swearing or cuss words.
OK it is OPEN for business.
BRING IT!
Hi old pilot and roller coaster thank you for you caring insight into the male perspective we are not as bad as we are made out to be, I think if you asked most men we have been more than loyal, more than faithfull morethan true and deffinately more than hopeful our Mlcers will come back to us, I have made some deep connections to male brothers through this site, unfortunately I have experienced bad things through people I have believed I could be open with, albeit they have their own issues and a genders and I hope they will come through that's what it's all about forgiveness, the unconditionals apply to everyone and so they should. It's a very different world out here today, things don't pan out as they did 20,30,40 years or more ago. Your living by the seat of your pants, surviving and judging by instinct, we are reverting to to our primordial ancestors. Personally I'm christian in my faith and will go to my grave believing this but that's my choice. I wish everyone well and hope your God goes with you. I'm a male by nature and love my woman and can't adapt to rules or regulations as my instinct is to overcome and conquer and to argue my perspective should this be the case. I guess I'm just me as your you, take care Jackolar 12.
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Hawk, I think she will see that you are taking the high road and being honorable. I have a friend who rails on me all the time b/c she thinks I am being too nice to H. I have actually discussed it with my Ds(they are slightly older than yours) and they are very appreciative and admiring of my behavior. I think your D will see your strong character and kindness as a good model for behavior and love her dad all the more for trying to make things better for her.
You think BP . Can't tell you what a relief that is to hear and from somebody that has girls in the same sitch.
l've worried about all this from day one.
But W and l have never liked bs or wanted to be hating in anyway.
l know yeah sure , that sorta means w gets of scot free but not really. She knows there's a line with me and it's about d now , among other things.
And she bends over backwards for it all in anyway she can and then some . So ,reading and hearing what others go through well , let sleeping dogs lie l reckon .
Besides , who wants to live hating and bitter ?
But yeah there has been the example to d thing buggen me.
So do you think l should talk to her like you did , sorta explain the sitch , or maybe just let it ride . She s only 13 , l've never know as yet ?
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Hawk,
I think the key for our kids is to find that space where we behave with grace, but not as a doormat. It is a fine line to walk.
Bend over too far, and you daughter may spin into your W's narcissistic influence and believe men are there to make her happy. But show grace in adversity, and you teach what a real man looks like.
BookWorm -- I've been thinking all weekend about whether to open up that can of worms on this thread -- OP and I were right in the middle of that mess -- and even on this man cave thread, I know I am pulling my punches because I still feel under the shadow of a threat. RCR and I certainly didn't share the same opinion on the significance of that. To remain quiet feels unauthentic, but I also know part of me that wants to go off is tapping into the pain of the MLC process -- something I need to move beyond. So for now, I am going to follow my own advice above, and try live in the spirit of grace while being a bit guarded in what I share here. Peace out, friends.
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El Ray,
As you know I have held my peace on the threat that I rec'd (regarding another member) for months. The only reason I bring it up here is because I felt that I needed to confirm what was posted. I certainly don't want drama, because God knows we have had enough of that from our spouses.
The vast majority of interactions that I have had here at HS have been wonderful, and I would not be where I am in my healing without it. However I think it bears a short reminder that we are on the internet, and not everyone has other's best interests at heart. I was shocked and appalled when the member threatened this man, and sadly not shocked when I found that it had happened yet again to another male board member.
So just a friendly reminder, this is an AMAZING resource and tool for this tough journey we are on. However, there are some very broken people here as well. Try to use good judgement in how much you share about yourself, especially when venturing into the social media aspect of it.
That's all folks.
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Hawk, I think she will see that you are taking the high road and being honorable. I have a friend who rails on me all the time b/c she thinks I am being too nice to H. I have actually discussed it with my Ds(they are slightly older than yours) and they are very appreciative and admiring of my behavior. I think your D will see your strong character and kindness as a good model for behavior and love her dad all the more for trying to make things better for her.
You think BP . Can't tell you what a relief that is to hear and from somebody that has girls in the same sitch.
l've worried about all this from day one.
But W and l have never liked bs or wanted to be hating in anyway.
l know yeah sure , that sorta means w gets of scot free but not really. She knows there's a line with me and it's about d now , among other things.
And she bends over backwards for it all in anyway she can and then some . So ,reading and hearing what others go through well , let sleeping dogs lie l reckon .
Besides , who wants to live hating and bitter ?
But yeah there has been the example to d thing buggen me.
So do you think l should talk to her like you did , sorta explain the sitch , or maybe just let it ride . She s only 13 , l've never know as yet ?
I'm no expert but I would wait a bit if I talked to her at all-I saw a big jump in maturity in my D's from 13-15. The only reason I brought it up was b/c this friend kept harping on me being treated with disrespect and I wanted to see if there was anything to it. Then too, she has her own issues that make her sensitive to this, I think. Of course, my D's are not aware of the worst things(to my knowledge) but they knew right from the start that there was something wrong with their dad.
I do agree with Elray in that you shouldn't take too much bad behavior and blatant disrespect but I was thinking your W hasn't been as dreadful as some?
I just try to keep the lines of communication open, we usually have pretty much weekly talks(I guess a houseful of women makes that easy!). They are at a really sensitive age as far as men go, and their outlook on future relationships; this worries me a great deal. It's just a big mess all around, isn't it? And you are right-the only thing we can do is run things by each other and hope for the best.
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Hawk,
I think the key for our kids is to find that space where we behave with grace, but not as a doormat. It is a fine line to walk.
Bend over too far, and you daughter may spin into your W's narcissistic influence and believe men are there to make her happy. But show grace in adversity, and you teach what a real man looks like.
...
I am finding out this is SO true. It is a VERY fine line. I have D16 full time, and although I look at her as very mature for her age, it is sometimes hard to remember that she IS still just a kid. In many ways I am so blessed: straight A student, keeps her nose clean, no trouble. Almost the perfect child. HOWEVER, she is leaning on her boyfriend way too much for support, and I have allowed it (no, nothing BAD happening between them), but I think I need to pull the reins back on the time she spends with her bf. She gets pissy if she doesn't get to see him when SHE wants to. But I see history repeating...her WORDS say "oh, he is just a high school thing-its not serious", yet her ACTIONS say otherwise. I am concerned she isn't more social. When I approached her about it not too long ago she says "I don't want to hang around them, all they do is drink and smoke pot." On the one hand, I am glad she has a good head on her shoulders regarding that stuff; on the other, the lack of social interaction with anyone other than her boyfriend is very concerning to me.
Here is the thing I am finding extremely difficult: How do I sit her down and have that HARD talk with her (or discipline her if needed), when otherwise she is a model daughter? Also, how does one step into that "authority" figure when needed, considering all she is going through and she has also witnessed first hand the lowest point of my life?
It is a struggle for me. A BIG struggle.
-T
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Hawk,
I think the key for our kids is to find that space where we behave with grace, but not as a doormat. It is a fine line to walk.
Bend over too far, and you daughter may spin into your W's narcissistic influence and believe men are there to make her happy. But show grace in adversity, and you teach what a real man looks like.
...
I am finding out this is SO true. It is a VERY fine line. I have D16 full time, and although I look at her as very mature for her age, it is sometimes hard to remember that she IS still just a kid. In many ways I am so blessed: straight A student, keeps her nose clean, no trouble. Almost the perfect child. HOWEVER, she is leaning on her boyfriend way too much for support, and I have allowed it (no, nothing BAD happening between them), but I think I need to pull the reins back on the time she spends with her bf. She gets pissy if she doesn't get to see him when SHE wants to. But I see history repeating...her WORDS say "oh, he is just a high school thing-its not serious", yet her ACTIONS say otherwise. I am concerned she isn't more social. When I approached her about it not too long ago she says "I don't want to hang around them, all they do is drink and smoke pot." On the one hand, I am glad she has a good head on her shoulders regarding that stuff; on the other, the lack of social interaction with anyone other than her boyfriend is very concerning to me.
Here is the thing I am finding extremely difficult: How do I sit her down and have that HARD talk with her (or discipline her if needed), when otherwise she is a model daughter? Also, how does one step into that "authority" figure when needed, considering all she is going through and she has also witnessed first hand the lowest point of my life?
It is a struggle for me. A BIG struggle.
-T
Why is this so bad?
It sounds rather normal to me,
I think the fact that she is having a relationship is good.
She needs to try on different looks to see how it feels.
I would step back and watch and trust that you have brought her up well.
I am so blessed: straight A student, keeps her nose clean, no trouble.
Look at the ACTIONS ^^^^^^
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Hello friends, as I indicated in my last post, I've recently been doing a lot of thinking about my participation in this community.
I've learned a tremendous amount about myself.
I've made a surprising number of good friends from around the world.
I've blown off steam and frustration, and like to think I helped a few folks along the way.
Hopefully I haven't over-shared, or self-indulged too much in my attempts to fix everyone else!
:-D
However, I also see in myself a bit of circling, a bit of picking at my scabs and a bit of dwelling too much on the past. I need to look to the future; otherwise, I fear getting stuck. As a result, I'm going to unplug for a while, perform a personal re-boot, refocus on my GAL, and re-assess my time spent here at a later date.
I wish you all the best, until we meet again.
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Quite honestly, I don't think the effects of this stuff shows up until later, in the kids lives. Yes, you will get a drop in grades quite often or bed wetting from young children, or withdrawal etc. It sort of sneaks up on them I think. Funny things happen. Funny strange, not funny ha ha! :(
It's a nasty business.
Hugs Stayed
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My granddaughter's 13yo. She cycles between acting like an adult to acting like a young child to acting her age.
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Quote from: OldPilot on Today at 07:00:45 AM
Quote from: terrified_in_TN on Today at 06:44:18 AM
My wife obviously wanted the "white picket fence" and "the good guy" when she was younger. She never went through the "bad boy" phase.....until MLC.
I dont think the point is for us to change ourselves into BAD BOYS as that will only attract BAD GIRLS.
Not what I want at least.
I know there are plenty of people who will find you quite attractive(talking about women not me)
Sorry to inject yet again, but it's not really bad or good, it's confidence, a strutt, a look, unfortunately those things often come along with the "bad boys".
My point initially was that it isn't a "bad boy phase". Don't be angry with your wife for having a natural attraction. It's encoded in her as much as your female sexual biases. She has desires for both bad boy and a nurturing protective pair bonding. We all have some bad boy in us. Some more than others. Mlc simply releases social inhibitions but long term marital success hinges on being able to tap into both sides of your male nature.
You have the same duality in your desire.. A lady in the street and a wh*re in the sheets. So don't be so quick to judge her desire as bad or "something She needs to find elsewhere". You may very much enjoy releasing that side of yourself.
There has been testing done on what type of man is attractive to women. As it's turned out it varies with their cycle, they are hot for the bad boys during ovulation and crave the beta nice guy post ovulation...When menopause hits, strangely enough about the same time as MLC, some women experince an increase in testosterone and crave the attention of other men, but actually begin to find even the touch of their husband distasteful..... at "margaret 70095 " find a chronlogical example of what we've witnessed, but from the woman's side who actually is aware of what's happening, but can't seem to control it anyway. http://www.patient.co.uk/forums/discuss/is-menopause-threaten-your-marriage--270288
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hawk-don't beat yourself up too bad.
One thing I am very curious of, and I know we will never find out....
MLC seems to be such a male dominate dis-ease, as evident by the sheer numbers of women on this forum. Us men are certainly a minority. So it looks like only a very small fraction of women actually go through MLC. Hopefully the odds are in your kids favor as long as they are taught not to "lose" themselves in another person, and not to get involved with someone who "needs fixing".
So, how did us men on this forum get so lucky as to end up with MLC wives?
-T
I really don't think MLC is a male thing, it's just until recently guys have not communicated what they've gone through out of embarassment, there was no outlet for it. Let's face it, bringing up the fact your wife is having it off with other men is like admitting you were not enough man to keep her...
I know when I started my journey on this I went to the book store looking for self help and found hundreds of books on relationships, but they were all geared to women....Because men were leaving women in droves? No, because the media industry knows women are the prime spenders of money.
Anytime men have try to do get together and compare notes regarding women they are shut down or shamed as "Bitter" or "Misogynists". Off shoot forums like this often end up getting henpecked to keep the boys in line, which limits open discussion.
Personally I don't agree having women in a forum like this, I've seen other Men's forums that ended up getting shut down because some woman took offence over what men said they found attractive...
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I really don't think MLC is a male thing, it's just until recently guys have not communicated what they've gone through out of embarassment, there was no outlet for it. Let's face it, bringing up the fact your wife is having it off with other men is like admitting you were not enough man to keep her...
I know when I started my journey on this I went to the book store looking for self help and found hundreds of books on relationships, but they were all geared to women....Because men were leaving women in droves? No, because the media industry knows women are the prime spenders of money.
Good Point!
Personally I don't agree having women in a forum like this, I've seen other Men's forums that ended up getting shut down because some woman took offence over what men said they found attractive...
Well we will let them post here - I think that it is good to learn from each other.
And if you are ever to have a relationship with a woman again - why not practice here to be able to get along?
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150 posts - will start a new thread here is the link
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6104.0