Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: unbroken on December 22, 2010, 10:15:40 PM
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Hi.
I would like to discuss how to know whether or not one's spouse is actually having a MLC. I have read Conway's book and believe I have some idea of the signs.
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I answered this recently somewhere on another thread.
Lets see if I remember
The affair partner is their "soul mate" they love them deeply from the get go.
No one sees it coming, often in a normal affair people are aware something is happening and the spouse is "last to know". In MLC everyone is gobsmacked. taken by surprise when bomb drop happens.
they often flit between the spouse and OP.
they will walk out not taking anything except a few things.
They RARELY organise things before hand.
Their personality changes totally not just toward you but toward everyone.
They will cut off family, friends, their own children.
Now these are just generalities but the reason it doesn't matter as much is whether they are MLC or not you do the same things. Just with MLC there is greater chance of them returning once they get through the tunnel. A normal affair they will also try and hide it totally and when it comes out they will often choose their spouse over OP in MLC they throw the spouse under the bus.
Ultimatums don't work
Sorry your here but it really is a good place to get support
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I agree with Shantilly.,
Someone once said to me that the reason you know it is MLC and not just a bad marriage is the fact that they usually want their cake and eat it. If it was just a bad marriage, they would pack their bags and disappear into the sunset without a backward glance. You can tell it's MLC because they are so mixed up they change their minds weekly, daily even hourly, rewriting your history as they go.
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Glimmer
Just a word of caution, some MLCers do vanish completely or have infrequent contact. They do all their cycling where the LBS can't see.
There's a thread on that subject for those of us with that problem.
xxxxx
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Yep I was a vanisher but I just ran. Not organising anything. No one saw it coming. Not even me.
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Sorry Voyager
I take that back. Was just saying from a personal viewpoint, should have made that clearer.
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There are similarities in all cases, but nothing is black/white.
My H (in MLC for 2.75 years) has never left our home. To my knowledge, there is no OW. He fantasizes about life he doesn't have. He has said he is "done" since 1/09, but has never left our home. Still does family things....not couple things.
His replay was concerts, being a workaholic, secret drinking, excessive exercise, teen type movies, slang, wanting to run.
So, I have always considered him a "runner" with low energy, so he doesn't actually leave the situation.
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I agree with Still nothing in MLC is black&white and all sitchs. are different but they do show similar characteristics. The most noticable is the 180 in personality change. The once dedicated, caring & H and father is gone. Their total selfishness comes to the forefront. It's all about them and everyone else is pushed to the side.
The affair is just a bandaid. They have found someone to ease their guilt and justify their actions in the abandoment of their families and their morals. The OP has their own agenda in the affair and is a pathetic excuse for a human being even if they are not aware of it.
Just my two cents on what I see in my sitch and others. No point really in analyzing MLC as it will only drive you to the brink of insanity.
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Well from the DB Board MLC = Confusion.
Depression(Overt or Covert), Childhood Issues, Trigger mechanism(death, illness), hormones out of whack.
The above would classify to me parts of a MLC.
With the depression it might be hard to see because the covert is a masked depression that may not be obvious or diagnosised.
Affairs are the norm but not in all cases.
The replay actions are a running away function trying to FIX themselves by external forces.
Usually these fail.
That is my .02
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Wow. I've been lurking a bit, trying to decide if I would make the jump from annother site. This discussion just sinched it for me. It made the MLC/not MLC question so clear to me. I've had a lot of questions about if my H is in MLC or just fell off the faithfulness wagon and I was making excusses for him. Think I have a genuine MLCer, even if he is a bit young for it.
Thanks for this discussion all!
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For some of us, it is important to try to understand what went wrong, to try to make sense of what happened to our lives. Where did that tsunami come from, how could we not see it coming, are we completely blind? Where were we when the signs were presenting themselves? The affair is to ease the MLC depression and it is the most painful sign for the LBS, but the wild carefree spending can be extremely dangerous too. Sometimes we can only piece together the signs in retrospect. Because as they happened one by one, they just looked like careless mistakes or poor choices or simple bad luck. But after the fact, well we then get to see that it has more of a pattern to it.
My H: Begins affair, buys me no christmas present that year, 5 mos later his father dies, we are talking one night 6 wks after his dad's death and he gets up in the middle of the conversation (about the cost of H paying for his dad's second funeral, yes my H gave his estranged dad a second funeral in our state where dad had not lived for 25 yrs) and leaves- taking nothing - and never returns, buys a new expensive car two weeks later, files for divorce within 4 wks of leaving but he did call the house once to see if I missed him or if the kids missed him. He had made 8 other exits (over the years) of several days duration, he was childlike in his problem-solving skillset, more of the sort "I'll run away where you can't find me and then you'll learn a lesson" and would try to gain power in this way. He would come home after I call to plead with him to return. But this time I knew about the affair (thanks to my kids) and vowed not to contact him. Within three months he was fired from his job (assuming for the affair, so inappropriate betw two profesional coworkers), she dumps him the minute he gets fired. They don't fire her...
He then buys books on repairing the marriage (this came out in the Disclosure Process of the Divorce, I saw all his credit card charges) but never does anything with them because they advocate honesty and full disclosure and gift giving and doing "acts of service". Laughingly those things must have stuck in his throat because int because these were all the things that he hated doing!! So he joins a gym, for two months. Then abandons that. Buys a new bike (didn't take his old one with him on his exit) and takes up biking, for about two months but he abandons that. Starts hiking. Stops doing that. Then he buys a kayak (we have 3 yaks here already, but he didn't take those either). My son goes kayaking with him once, so guess what? He buys yet another kayak. Now he has two (Keep in mind there are 3 stored in my garage collecting dust, but no matter; by all means, go buy two more). Reconciliation never happens and divorce finals because he still sees himself as the victim. Always the victim. No accountability for anything. I think this is how we know that there is much more going on. So there are ISSUES that show evidence of more than an affair...the constant confusion, lack of decision-making, forgetfulness (for which he has a prescrip for Androgel, and though it may assist his memory, it makes him angrier and when I see the doc next time I must remember to thank him for that!). The lack of remorse, the character change, the "oblivious to destruction", the constant running from the darkness...these are the hallmarks of something much more than just an affair.
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Just with MLC there is greater chance of them returning once they get through the tunnel. A normal affair they will also try and hide it totally and when it comes out they will often choose their spouse over OP in MLC they throw the spouse under the bus.
Ultimatums don't work
Sorry your here but it really is a good place to get support
And by stating that there is a greater chance of them returning it also brings up an interesting dynamics, whether some of us here would really like to think that it is MLC. Some get stuck longer because the focus is to where the progress of their MLCer is they forget to work on themselves. That's why in any MLC site they always mention Detachment and GAL.
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That's true about LBS getting stuck on their partner which was why I also stated that it didn't matter in any case the LBS should be treating it the same way. Just MLC takes much much longer to see any reaction from them.
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Just a few other tidbits that I think are important in determining the difference between MLC and just ending a relationship: Usually those in MLC are middle-aged( approx. between 40-60) and they have been married to the same spouse for a significant amount of time(approx. 2o yrs give or take) and the relationship worked for most of those yrs. It's not the same as someone whose married just a few yrs. and thinks they made a mistake. All marriages and relationships have problems, but most of those married for that length of time, had pretty good marriages.
The timing I think is also important. They are reviewing their lives thus far, and wondering what they want for the next half of their lives, the kids are usually older and leaving home and I believe that triggers something in them too. They are starting to feel and face getting older and they don't like it, and are trying to return to their youth and do all kinds of things like major exersizing, muscle building, dressing often ridiculously younger and partying up, like when they were teenager.
They shirk a lot responsibilty for kids, bills, anything to do with homelife and prefer freedom. They self-medicate by drinking lots, drugs, the affair and they seem to have lost ability to empathize, make appropriate emotional decisions, and some cognitive decison-making seems poor, as well.
I believe the theory of that it has a lot to do with changing hormones, but also of dealing with their identity and childhood developmental issues as well. Most of thes people have been dependable, devoted and actually really good spouses and fathers in the past.
It's all so confusing but the more I see it, the more I have come to believe it. I think it should be catagorized into a syndrome because there are so many common characteristics in terms of language, behaviour and attitude that I have seen over and over again.
I don't claim to be an expert, but this is what I know from what I have experienced and seen others experience as well. It's very uncanny.
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Thanks for bringing this up. It has been a topic I’ve been thinking about a lot lately.
I would like to discuss how to know whether or not one's spouse is actually having a MLC. I have read Conway's book and believe I have some idea of the signs.
Reading through the forum I'm not sure all of our spouses are actually in a MLC. So many of the stories focus only on the affair and the OW. An affair could mean anything. Where are the other signs?
Somewhere I saw RCR ask whether or not it mattered. Maybe it doesn't, but to me I think it does. So many people don't believe in MLC or believe it's just an excuse for bad behavior. If we just label every affair a MLC, then maybe they are right. Are there no distinguishing features? I realize it's hard or impossible to know for sure, but shouldn't we try to help each other determine whether or not our spouses are really in a MLC?
- The affair partner is their "soul mate" they love them deeply from the get go.
- No one sees it coming, often in a normal affair people are aware something is happening and the spouse is "last to know". In MLC everyone is gobsmacked. taken by surprise when bomb drop happens.
- they often flit between the spouse and OP.
- they will walk out not taking anything except a few things.
- They RARELY organise things before hand.
- Their personality changes totally not just toward you but toward everyone.
- They will cut off family, friends, their own children.
Now these are just generalities but the reason it doesn't matter as much is whether they are MLC or not you do the same things. Just with MLC there is greater chance of them returning once they get through the tunnel. A normal affair they will also try and hide it totally and when it comes out they will often choose their spouse over OP in MLC they throw the spouse under the bus.
Ultimatums don't work.
Like it or not, Lovisntweakness is correct and some of the points from Shantilly’s list are inaccurate. I will review those in a moment. But first let’s consider affair types.
Chronic philanderer or Brief Encounters: Is your spouse a chronic philanderer seeking either brief one-night stands or flings? Could this be a person who has a sex addiction?
The behaviours associated with that type of infidelity do not match up with what we see as MLC behaviours.
Exit Affair: An affair that was intended as an excuse to leave the marriage. Did your spouse leave without looking back—remove all their belongings, probably filed quickly and may have vanished unless there are children involved? May or may not remain cordial.
It’s a bit harder now isn’t it? Some MLCers vanish, some file quickly, some take all of their stuff. That doesn’t mean an Exit Affair is also MLC, but does it mean it is not MLC? It’s a subjective line. How the Standing spouse handles it may make the important difference.
Emotionally-Bonded Affair: This is an affair fueled by in-fatuative addiction. They believe they are soul mates.
Sound familiar? But this does not mean it is or is not MLC. An MLC affair is an emotionally-bonded affair just like squares are rectangles.
But can infidelity trigger MLC? Usually the infidelity is the main symptom. It does not usually start when the MLC starts—at trigger time—but it for many the first notice that something is not right. But some spouses do notice changes that precede infidelity, others only notice in hind sight. But think about it, can infidelity where there is an emotional bond facilitate conditions for a crisis of identity?
Why not?
What about an exit affair, could the couple involved become caught up in in-fatuation by surprise?
Why not? If they can and are caught up in in-fatuation then the exit-affair becomes and emotionally bonded affair. The betraying spouse was running from the relationship which indicates problems in the marriage and perhaps there are more problems than in other marriages involving emotionally-bonded affairs.
The reason I have said it might not make a difference if it is MLC or infidelity is because emotionally-bonded affairs that did not start as MLC may still play out in the same manner: projection and blame, monster, guilt and shame…
I don’t know, but the big difference might be spending and that is not an MLC litmus anyway. But an non-MLCer in an emotionally-bonded affair may still spend, but maybe the spending is more focused on the alienator and the relationship rather than on toys. That’s just a speculation…
I was reading a thread over at DB between the MLCers and the Infidelity forum—the thread was from late Summer to Autumn. Several MLCers came in and tried to talk about the differences, and they told the Infidelity Posters that the addiction was for the infidelity people and not MLC—at least that was how I read it.
Um…no. MLC makes the person more susceptible to the addictive nature of infidelity. One former MLCer said that his alienator felt like his best friend, not his soul mate. Perhaps, but that is not the case with all, and how did he feel during his MLC and how did it appear to others?
Someone going through an emotionally-bonded affair will be in a high. Replay is a high. Consider that when the affair is over they may crash and experience a depression.
An emotionally-bonded affair that does not involve or become MLC may end sooner than a typical MLC affair…or it may not. Much may depend on the alienator and the level of emotional blackmail involved. An affair can outlast addiction because emotional blackmail takes over. I don’t think the addiction lasted long in Sweetheart’s affair because the emotional blackmail was so severe. The two elements may have co-existed for awhile, but the emotional blackmail is an element that reveals the true person behind the fantasy and may facilitate the breaking of the addiction—just a speculation.
Okay, let’s look Shantilly’s list.
The affair partner is their "soul mate" they love them deeply from the get go.
This one is the easiest and the point has already been made. An emotionally-bonded affair is an addiction in which the partners feel they are each other’s soul mates. It even surprised me that the DB thread talked about this being a quality important for the infidelity forum and not MLC—in my days over there we talked about the addiction and soul-mate issue as quite relevant.
No one sees it coming, often in a normal affair people are aware something is happening and the spouse is "last to know". In MLC everyone is gobsmacked. taken by surprise when bomb drop happens.
This is not true. Many people have no idea their spouse is having an affair. Some remain hidden for years. Some are fling affairs that last for years where the couple may meet up once a week for sex and there may be no clues.
they often flit between the spouse and OP.
In a straight-forward exit affair they will not flit. Actually they may if they return out of duty for the kids, but the marriage will feel false. But in an emotionally-bonded affair there is great confusion. The person feels extreme highs but may also feel extreme guilt. They are susceptible to their spouses pain and moods and may try to end the affair and come home only to leave again because of the addiction. This seems to be the main type of affair discussed at the DB infidelity forum—before the October purge. They advocate different ways of handling the affair than the MLC forum, but maybe the methods do not need to be so different. Some of their methods end the affair quickly for some of the people. Maybe those cases where the methods don’t end the affair as quickly are more MLC. I am at present looking into their methods but I am too early in my studies to share them here because they are still a bit muddled in my mind. I’m hoping to write about it for a Newsletter Article in 2011.
they will walk out not taking anything except a few things.
They RARELY organise things before hand.
In an exit affair they may walk out and be organized. But an emotionally-bonded affair person is living a fantasy. Some don’t realize that to truly fulfill the fantasy they have to completely sever the old life. They just want to jump and thus they may not take stuff or they may. Remember, it is an addiction and all they are interested in is the high. They may or may not think of divorce because it’s just not in their thoughts. They may want one now or later and think of it, but both thoughts and action take too much energy away from the affair high.
Their personality changes totally not just toward you but toward everyone.
They will cut off family, friends, their own children.
An addiction can cause changes in personality. That doesn’t mean the changes are permanent, but the force of the hormones is running the show. As for family, consider how junkies treat their families.
Usually those in MLC are middle-aged( approx. between 40-60) and they have been married to the same spouse for a significant amount of time(approx. 20 yrs give or take) and the relationship worked for most of those yrs.
Remeberer, you make excellent points in through entire post.
Jung gave the range as 35-50, but as the average lifespan increases this is more accurate. I also notice differences in the younger MLCers of that range from the older MLCers. As for the length of marriage…20+ works for the older end of the range and perhaps 10 or 12+ for the younger end.
The timing I think is also important. They are reviewing their lives thus far, and wondering what they want for the next half of their lives.
Very true. But could an emotionally-bonded affair initiate a life review?
Why not?
the kids are usually older and leaving home and I believe that triggers something in them too.
Not so much anymore since many people are waiting to have children. Yes, this is a triggering factor for many, but there are also many MLCers in those same age ranges with younger children.
They are starting to feel and face getting older and they don't like it, and are trying to return to their youth and do all kinds of things like major exercising, muscle building, dressing often ridiculously younger and partying up, like when they were teenager.
Absolutely true. But consider what a person does to impress a love interest in the in-fatuation stages; vanity is also a symptom of in-fatuation and thus these same behaviours may be exhibited by non-MLCers in emotionally-bonded affairs. If the alienator is younger, this may trigger feelings and fears of aging.
They shirk a lot responsibility for kids, bills, anything to do with home life and prefer freedom. They self-medicate by drinking lots, drugs, the affair.
True of MLCers and addicts in general. An emotionally-bonded affair is an addiction.
they seem to have lost ability to empathize, make appropriate emotional decisions, and some cognitive decision-making seems poor, as well.
Definitely true and perhaps there is an aging element to the cognitive decisions. But I don’t think so—aging studies don’t show this. I think a better explanation is the addiction hormones and with an MLCer the identity crisis also but not only.
I believe the theory of that it has a lot to do with changing hormones, but also of dealing with their identity and childhood developmental issues as well. Most of these people have been dependable, devoted and actually really good spouses and fathers in the past.
Definitely. An emotionally-bonded affair may trigger childhood issues, but this seems to me a bigger distinction. Though MLC or not, a person in an emotionally-bonded affair may have been a model parent and husband.
As I research and study more on the differences I will prepare my article. Perhaps initial methods of dealing with it upon discovery should be similar and the reactions observed may help determine whether it is MLC. The hard part right now is that some think those initial methods may damage an MLC situation, but I don’t think so. They involve boundaries of the type that are always important—respect-boundaries. But they will take a strong person to be able to pull them off.
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My big clue was the change in personality - really almost a complete opposite person during replay/around the time of the bomb than the man I had known for almost 20 years. He wanted to run from EVERYTHING, not just me/the kids.
Gradually, I see him changing back into "himself" again as he works his way through.
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:o :o :o Okay now I'm confused...a lot of what RCR wrote makes me feel like how could we every know because infatuation hormones are part of the MLC affair and regular affairs and they are incredibly addictive and powerful...Here's some observations I have made in my sitch that continue to show me it's a MLC...
1. I could sense something really wrong happening about a year prior to the affair starting. I know that there was no affair at that time because my H didn't know her yet. There had been years of denial of "feelings" and a REAL fear of intimacy. However the year before I saw him slip away there was a clear year of ANGER...with odd tantrums...and a real distancing...and grasping and TOTAL disregard for me and my feelings.
2. Lots of vanity, working out..couldn't walk past a mirror without looking
3. The children...my goodnes...lots of childlike personas presenting themselves. This progressively became more common as he slipped into DEEP replay...I saw babylike behavior, school age behavior (6-8 yrs) and teenage behavior, and perhaps 20ish behavior. This was also very connected to music...my H would sing music from these times...as well...like songs that were hits when he was born, or songs that were popular when he was school aged and teenager. It was a very CLEAR pattern. I also would here LANGUAGE indictative of those times. I don't have much interaction with H now so it's hard to tell if these childlike personas are still presenting. For me this is one of the biggest indicators of my H's MLC, a real sign that he has returned to childhood. I have even had interactions with him where I got the sense that he didn't see me as his wife at all and was CONFUSED at why my two-year old daughter was insisting he kiss me. This is a very strange aspect of MLC and sometimes was difficult for me to watch. My D8 even picked up on it when he was living here.
4. MONSTER during NC. It seems like when I remove myself from my H he lashes out at me even more. I feel that in an affair that type of attachment albeit negative wouldn't manifest. I don't know I could be wrong.
This is just the sense I get from my sitch...also lots of confusion...lots
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Looking forward to RCRs article on this one as it just seems to get more complicated ???. Thought I would offer my own perspective as I have also had an affair which my husband discovered approx 2and a half years before BD, something which I believe to be the "trigger event" for his own MLC.
My own affair was an emotionally bonded affair
Emotionally-Bonded Affair: This is an affair fueled by in-fatuative addiction. They believe they are soul mates.
Sound familiar? But this does not mean it is or is not MLC. An MLC affair is an emotionally-bonded affair just like squares are rectangles.
I do not feel I was in MLC but was infatuated with OM until I eventually ( after about 13 months of PA) came to see him as weak (and myself!) and not someone I wanted to spend my future with, coupled with a corresponding internal recommitment to my H and my M. I can definitely identify with the soul mate component from both myself and OM, I also projected blame for the A on my husband ( focused upon him being unsupportive and his depressive personality !). My husband was totally unaware of my A until discovery approx 2 months after it had ended , I did not do monster or display any Replay behaviours (othr than losing weight, taking an interest in my appearance which I feel would be typical of any A MLC or not), indeed my husband indicated that I deserved an acting aard for carrying on so normally whilst conducting the A, ie I had no personality change and continued to function in demanding job and being wife and mother. I experienced significant shame and remorse during the A, on discovery and to this day ! I have expressed this to my H throughout
Fast forward to today and why I feel my H's A is different and that my H is in MLC. BD was July this year some of the things I feel make his an MLC case are:
complete personality change -from dutiful and loving man to selfish monster spewing alien
periods of vanishing alternating with sporadic contact with kids and a complete abandonment of old friends and family
replay style behaviours including new hobbies and grungy style of dress (shoes with holes in :o) slang style of talking
No planning , despite saying marriage over and doesnt love me at BD made no moves to get out - has now been left 6 weeks (largely prompted by me as I found his monster and cake eating too much - I know we should let them go of own accord but I wasnt able to take it)
Memory loss have to repeat several conversations
Lies about OW -is not able to admit he is in R with her
Running behaviours - can be at the house for hours and doesnt remove coat and hat, frequently stands to drink his cup of tea and actually stands near the door of our living room with one foot on the wall (behind him as if he is ready to launch himself like a runner -get the picture :o)
Negative attachment- turns up to do Monster - an example it would have been our 20th Wedding Anniversary this week , I honour it by going to the church we were married in to pray for our M ( I am not religious but it felt like something I wanted to do). He honours it by turning up unexpectedly having not been NC for over a week to collect furniture for his new rented house from our garage, stomps about throwing furniture swearing and snarling at me throughout - Happy Anniversary ! Next day again unexpected returns silent and depressed eats something falls asleep watches TV with us then leaves late hey ho !
Im not sure if this is helpful but I am clear that our situations are different even if the Affair attachments have similarities. I dont feel I was MLC but feel confident that my husband is ( in addition to above he has childhood issues alcoholic/mental health issues divorced parents etc , I am from stable and loving family). On discovering this site I decided to stand and feel that MLC offers me some hope , even if we have spouses with emotionally bonded affairs however my own perspective is that these too can run their course and need not signify the end of the M. On discovery my husband wanted me to stay and I wanted that too, we have struggled and now with his MLC don't know what the outcome will be but looks like we are headed for "Interesting Times"
Wishing you all JOy, Peace and ...........Hope this festive season
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Hi all,
This is a really interesting topic, i have a question of RCR from my own perspective
Jung gave the range as 35-50, but as the average lifespan increases this is more accurate. I also notice differences in the younger MLCers of that range from the older MLCers. As for the length of marriage…20+ works for the older end of the range and perhaps 10 or 12+ for the younger end.
What do you see as the differences between the older and younger MLCers? My h is 56, but I think the cracks appeared when he was in his early 50's before going on to full replay behaviour last year.
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Hey FollowingBliss
My H does exactly the same. He will stand in the doorway for ages and not sit down, as though he is ready to bolt at any time. Sits with his coat on etc. I have also noticed he just DOESN'T listen most of the time to anything we say. His eyes are glued to the tv and we can't believe he doesn't hear us. The girls look at me and roll their eyes, because the tv is so much more interesting than anything we have to say to him, and we wonder why he visits at all.
Another thing I have noticed, certain foods and meals I used to prepare and which he used to love, he says he no longer likes them because they 'don't agree with him, if I ask if he wants to eat with us, he has a habit of pulling a face like a young child does when asked to eat vegetables.
He has had a complete personality change to the extent that his own parents say he feels like a stranger to them. For 20years he was a kind, caring responsible husband and father, always putting us first. When this MLC hit he said he wasn't particularly unhappy, just not happy!!!. He had put everyone else first for years, so it was time to put himself first because he had never had a youth. He had been bored for 4years, yet not one person including me had seen any evidence of that. We were always very close, spending any free time together, we were both home birds. Now he is like a whirlwind, has to cram every minute full of activity, because when he stops he is so exhausted he sleeps so he doesn't have to think about what he is doing.
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People in the forum have mentioned Tiger Woods, Charlie Sheen and Mel Gibson as having MLC. Of course I don't know any of them personally, but from my understanding of celebrity gossip... Mel Gibson - maybe. Apparently he was a solid guy for what 28? years and now seems to have gone bonkers. Seems out of character. Also he seems depressed and headed for some really hard times. Charlie Sheen - absolutely not. The guy is a philanderer. Remember all the prostitutes? Lots of women. Beats them up. Knives. Drugs. This isn't out of character. Sadly, it is his character. While men in MLC may act like Charlie Sheen, I don't believe Charlie Sheen is in MLC. Tiger Woods - probably not. Despite his well crafted public image, my understanding is that he was a womanizer before the marriage and he never stopped. He admitted that as a celebrity he believed the rules didn't apply to him. He was just having all the fun he thought he deserved.
I agree, Mel seems changed and in extreme Monster, but I find it laughable when people talk about Tiger Woods and especially Charlie Sheen on the context of MLC. Though I think Tiger has a greater chance of decency and reform than Charlie.
Okay now I'm confused...a lot of what RCR wrote makes me feel like how could we every know because infatuation hormones are part of the MLC affair and regular affairs and they are incredibly addictive and powerful...
Yeah, I know, it confuses me too. But all of you are highlighting some important differences—especially personality changes, whether you notice them prior to Bomb Drop or after.- However the year before I saw him slip away there was a clear year of ANGER...with odd tantrums...and a real distancing...and grasping and TOTAL disregard for me and my feelings.
- Lots of vanity, working out..couldn't walk past a mirror without looking.
- The children...my goodness...lots of childlike personas presenting themselves. This progressively became more common as he slipped into DEEP replay...I saw babylike behavior, school age behavior (6-8 yrs) and teenage behavior, and perhaps 20ish behavior. This was also very connected to music...my H would sing music from these times...as well...like songs that were hits when he was born, or songs that were popular when he was school aged and teenager. It was a very CLEAR pattern. I also would here LANGUAGE indicative of those times. I don't have much interaction with H now so it's hard to tell if these childlike personas are still presenting. For me this is one of the biggest indicators of my H's MLC, a real sign that he has returned to childhood. I have even had interactions with him where I got the sense that he didn't see me as his wife at all and was CONFUSED at why my two-year old daughter was insisting he kiss me. This is a very strange aspect of MLC and sometimes was difficult for me to watch. My D8 even picked up on it when he was living here.
- MONSTER during NC. It seems like when I remove myself from my H he lashes out at me even more. I feel that in an affair that type of attachment albeit negative wouldn't manifest. I don't know I could be wrong.
Thought I would offer my own perspective as I have also had an affair which my husband discovered approx 2and a half years before BD, something which I believe to be the "trigger event" for his own MLC.
My own affair was an emotionally bonded affair.Emotionally-Bonded Affair: This is an affair fueled by in-fatuative addiction. They believe they are soul mates.
Sound familiar? But this does not mean it is or is not MLC. An MLC affair is an emotionally-bonded affair just like squares are rectangles.
I do not feel I was in MLC but was infatuated with OM until I eventually ( after about 13 months of PA) came to see him as weak (and myself!) and not someone I wanted to spend my future with, coupled with a corresponding internal recommitment to my H and my M. I can definitely identify with the soul mate component from both myself and OM, I also projected blame for the A on my husband ( focused upon him being unsupportive and his depressive personality !). My husband was totally unaware of my A until discovery approx 2 months after it had ended , I did not do monster or display any Replay behaviours (othr than losing weight, taking an interest in my appearance which I feel would be typical of any A MLC or not), indeed my husband indicated that I deserved an acting aard for carrying on so normally whilst conducting the A, ie I had no personality change and continued to function in demanding job and being wife and mother. I experienced significant shame and remorse during the A, on discovery and to this day ! I have expressed this to my H throughout.
From your description I agree that your affair did not seem like MLC. Some MLCers start the physical affair before Bomb Drop and hide it well as you did, the changes and differences in MLC versus a non-MLC emotionally-bonded affair may not be evident until after Bomb Drop. Had your husband discovered your affair before it was over—especially if in the in-fatuative heights—the outcome may have been different. It may have triggered an MLC, but perhaps more likely it would have got you to think. Had he responded well and surrounded both of you with supportive friends of the marriage, the exposure may have caused you to end the affair, or run to the alienator briefly and return sooner than an MLCer.
Replay and Monster are usually mild or absent until Bomb Drop. Since your affair was secret and you were not trying to escape the marriage, you had less motivation for Replay and Monster. Monster especially is an action of projection toward the person seen as standing in the MLCer’s way of happiness.
Some MLCers display clear Replay before Bomb Drop that is noticeable by the spouse at that time, but this is not the case with all. Often a spouse simply thinks they are going through a phase and that they will weather this time together. This may especially true of the MLCer experienced a significant trauma where depression may be expected—such as the death of a parent.
Fast forward to today and why I feel my H's A is different and that my H is in MLC. BD was July this year some of the things I feel make his an MLC case are:
- complete personality change -from dutiful and loving man to selfish monster spewing alien
- periods of vanishing alternating with sporadic contact with kids and a complete abandonment of old friends and family
- replay style behaviours including new hobbies and grungy style of dress (shoes with holes in) slang style of talking
- No planning , despite saying marriage over and doesn’t love me at BD made no moves to get out - has now been left 6 weeks (largely prompted by me as I found his monster and cake eating too much - I know we should let them go of own accord but I wasn’t able to take it)
- Memory loss have to repeat several conversations
- Lies about OW -is not able to admit he is in R with her
- Running behaviours - can be at the house for hours and doesn’t remove coat and hat, frequently stands to drink his cup of tea and actually stands near the door of our living room with one foot on the wall (behind him as if he is ready to launch himself like a runner -get the picture)
- Negative attachment- turns up to do Monster - an example it would have been our 20th Wedding Anniversary this week , I honour it by going to the church we were married in to pray for our M ( I am not religious but it felt like something I wanted to do). He honours it by turning up unexpectedly having not been NC for over a week to collect furniture for his new rented house from our garage, stomps about throwing furniture swearing and snarling at me throughout - Happy Anniversary ! Next day again unexpected returns silent and depressed eats something falls asleep watches TV with us then leaves late hey ho!
I’m not sure if this is helpful but I am clear that our situations are different even if the Affair attachments have similarities. I don’t feel I was MLC but feel confident that my husband is (in addition to above he has childhood issues alcoholic/mental health issues divorced parents etc , I am from stable and loving family).
These are all excellent differences. Sweetheart disclosed his affair before he moved and before it was physical. He told me he was leaving for her, they were soul mates and that I would know they were physical when he was no longer intimate with me. When it became blatantly obvious that this had occurred, he denied it moments after telling me (in a secretly taped conversation) that if we ever had sex again he’d have to be tested. The lies did not last because I refused to allow him to lie about something of which we were both aware. When he hid the affair two years later, I was not aware and thus the lies worked.
As I think about it further, I think that Sweetheart’s MLC may have been an example of MLC triggered by the affair. I have not to this day figured out a trigger 12-36 months prior. I have guesses. I was given a lay-off notice with an eight month notice before the end. At that time I was half way through my MFA and worried I’d have to quit. But on that day I figured out how I would do it—all the employees received a generous severance package. But Sweetheart flipped out—he through ice cubes at me while I was on the phone telling a friend my plans.
I feel that the alienator was BPD and she was quick to use emotional blackmail. He saw her true colours almost as soon as the affair was physical—she called his work—where she’d recently been fired—and threatened to sic her Daddy’s lawyer on them if they fired Sweetheart…he was on leave for a bad back. She did that two weeks after the affair went physical; that level of possessiveness scared him.
I did not notice significant changes before Bomb Drop. He had the year before or so got heavily into bicycling and just before Bomb was also getting serious about Mountain Biking—bought an expensive road bike and an expensive Mt. Bike. But he has a BS in phys ed. and worked as a personal trainer at a gym in addition to his full time work as the fitness director for a retirement home. Fitness was and is important to him.
The alienator caught him when he was vulnerable, but had he started MLC already or did she trigger it? I think he was a candidate for MLC, but had she not shown up it might have been later with a clearer trigger. I’m glad it happened then because I was able to handle it; at a different place in our lives would I have responded the same? Would I have learned and wanted to Stand? Would I have had other obstacles—children—that made it more difficult?
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Voyager,
I have a question of RCR from my own perspective.Jung gave the range as 35-50, but as the average lifespan increases this is more accurate. I also notice differences in the younger MLCers of that range from the older MLCers. As for the length of marriage…20+ works for the older end of the range and perhaps 10 or 12+ for the younger end.
What do you see as the differences between the older and younger MLCers? My h is 56, but I think the cracks appeared when he was in his early 50's before going on to full replay behaviour last year.
According to Daniel Levinson, life transitions occur every 7-10 years. Given that, the range of 35-50 or 40-60 spans a few transitions and we can assume that those various transitions may be different based on age or where a person is in life—be it career, family or both. A 40 year old MLCer is more likely these days to have young children, whereas a 55 year old MLCer has late teenagers or young adult children—college age.
Also consider the integration of the contrasexual complexes—anima and animus. Men become more in tune with their femininity and women with their masculinity. If this integration has already occurred in an earlier transition—or is further along—by later midlife the MLCer will respond differently to the crisis than when part of the crisis may be an avoidance of the contrasexual complex as it surfaces. So an older MLC male may show a greater degree of overt depression and a milder Replay. They may be a lower-energy MLCer. This is not the case with all—the lines are subjective. But even when there is infidelity I see a difference in the descriptions of Monster. Consider Buggy’s younger MLCer who has young children—including infants. He has displayed an angry, taunting and flaunting Monster. And older male Replayer may simmer below the surface with greater control over anger. His energy may seem darker and in some ways more frightening because he holds it in and may be quieter and more brooding.
I have a good friend from DB—her MLCer was a source for my description of those Stuck In-Between as a Lost Soul. She once told me she thought most cases of MLC were 50+ or at least 48+ and at the same time I thought they were 40-45—at Bomb. But our separate perceptions were a reflective of our own ages and our MLCers. Sweetheart was 39.5 at Bomb Drop and her MLCer was in his 50s, their children are grown and the oldest is married—he might have a child. In the beginning as we went through together I didn’t notice the differences. Her MLCer was angry and had an alienator who rivaled Sweetheart’s as an affair down with a personality disorder. His energy also seemed high, but in a darker anger, where Sweethearts was more about taunting-and-flaunting as a disturbed method of being flirtatious. Her MLCer was also a Boomerang—though not clinging—and came home at least once and perhaps more.
As for females, I see the same running and high-energy in the younger MLCers as I do in the males and perhaps a crisis that is more about menopause and hormones in the older end of the range—OldPilot’s MLCer.
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RCR
Many thanks for coming back to my question, I see a lot of what you say in my h's behaviour, his monser is certainly more controlled and was almost a laser like focussed anger, rather than a spitting spewing one, he's always denied he has anger towards me, preferring to think of it as "managing" an awkward situation.
But it is scary because it is simmering. I think he is quite high energy but definitely not a boomerang. Like your friend an affair down and 20 years younger, so I saw some real youthful behaviours before he left.
Not sure if the age of the MLCer also plays a role in how you respond?? Just wondering.
I guess also hoping they get tired out quicker!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My H is a text book MLC - I promise you the web sites were written for him yet I have days I too struggle to understand the MLC journey, and if he is a MLCer ! Yet whatever he does its textbook, now he's (I think) in withdrawal or liminality, Been NC for 5 weeks tomorrow and no Christmas Hi or anything to anyone of us .. kids got a text re his Mum sending them money and she had forgotten daughter so he text-ed to tell D that Granny had made an error and it had gone in .. D (Ive just collected her) has been away for 4 weeks and so couldn't access her email so wound not have know so think an excuse to contact D from H?
This we both think as he's finally stood up to his M (Granny - hip Hip Hooray as she's a manipulative controlling women who told my H that his arrival ruined her glittering career?? Last year she sent D Xmas money £200 to D and £500 to S - but nothing happened H did not say anything even when D complained and S split the extra £200 between them) this year it seems H has sorted out not only that she forgot D but ensured it was equal to what she had sent to S 10days ago (she favours boy's think if shed had a girl what would she be like now - a mental asylum?) + an email asking Son if he'd got the money (no email to D) and also asking him who he is spending Xmas with and where????? so that is why we know its odd - 10 days ago and H sorts this out today???? So we deduce she never sent money till H sorted this out?
could be wrong but ....
So anyway .. MLC to me is leaving when the issues or problems can be sorted .. all marriages have difficult times but MLC they run away and invent silly reasons why and the most ridiculous being that its all out fault and they were never happy and we had drifted apart ? they changed into someone who now loved the opposite towhat they used , wanted to be this or that and we'd stopped them form doing ?? blah blah and talk rubbish and behave like crazy people, I have always been thinking my J is either MLC or gone bonkers crazy !!!
he left with one bag, still his post comes here, has joined sereval gyms and other such stuff and has put down home address and me as his Next of Kin???
went from denial to anger then now hes in a full time pity party but the most important bits are since hes come to then of replay (still pops back as he is scared to really look at himself but the signs are there that he is).
He had another OW which I know started before he left - a consequence o his obsessionwith exercising she is like him obsessive buts if now over
His actions worry his work colleagues and they think hes crazy
he had stopped contat with old friends and only recently has rekindled these
he treated the kids like me .. maybe a little more friendly but if they didn't do as he wanted he went NC and if they toldhim how they felt he said they were horrible to be mean to him he deserved his happiness and he always tells then how happy he is etc
D says he pretends to be happy S says hes crazy and treats him with little respect ..
H started to do things he had always hated - pop concerts, camping a lot and non stop seeing dull people who he always said he'd disliked ?? BUT the best is he at first blamed me for not letting him do these things (total rubbish).
At first he bragged about where he'd been hen it went I don't want to do this anymore
re camping but I booked it 6 months ago ..
I find so and so so so dull but they are my only friends ..
To D and S .. i go out all the time with so and so but they are lesbians and all there friends are gay but they are all the friends I have (boo hoo) (D thinks its a message to me as this is since the OW relationship went sour we are guessing September ish hes saying there is none else.
when we first met he was 25 and very emotionally immature (this is now my reflection) but very grown up intellectually - and I seemed to put any issues between us right .. he is used to me being the fixer .. well this journey i never asked for has taught me such a lot about me .. i have fixed all my life as my Mum made me the fixer (my Sister 2 years yonder was the sickly one who needed her, i was the independent one who had to stand on her own two feet) My M S and H always pulled me in different ways and I let them especially tried to make my Mum proud of me (Dad died when I was 21)
He does live now in a fantasy but I think hes seeing this now and yet doesn't know how to fix it
2011 will be intersting BUT this week I have got somewhere I never thought i would ..
I really can see my life being better witout he man he is now in it and am thinking of him less and have detached to the point that If he cant see how he can fix this then
that is what will be because I'm happy to help assist and guide but he needs to ask for it ?
I have many divorce lawyer friends - they think hes not typical when he left wanted a divorce now denies it
in fact hes lucky he remembers where he lives as his memory is awful, he told me when we were tallking about politics (id asked him how he felt) that he doesn't feel, or think so he cant feel - he just wants to be happy and doesn't care about me anymore ..
or the kids in 'that way' (whatever that is) no normal man extracting himself could say this - they would do anything to make it OK for the ones they were abandoning but he seemed to be punishing us for ??
just my perspective but keep you updated if I ever hear from him again ..
B xx
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Just wanted to add in with a couple of things about my MLCer. Bomb drop was not an affair, but it was the desire to end the marriage. My MLCer is on the younger side. Soon after bomb drop, I talked to a counselor that I know and he was the first to say he thought it was MLC. I then found several websites, with this one and Jim Conway's being my preferences due to my beliefs.
Though my MLCer was not having an affair at bomb drop, she said one of the reasons she wanted to divorce was so we could each find someone more like ourselves.
A few of the main symptoms, if you will, that my MLCer showed...
She verbalized hopelessness a lot, using the word hopeless frequently
She put a negative spin on all the fun things we had done in our marriage, such as trips, vacations, etc
She brought up our families and childhood many times, especially how good mine was and how bad hers was
During the early weeks and months, she went back and forth many times on what she wanted to do
There are more, but those are some of the basics.
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Just my own .02 but the character played by Charlie Sheen in 2-1/2 men seems like he is alway in MLC,
Issues with his mother, drinking, running around. If that is not MLC, what is it?
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Just my own .02 but the character played by Charlie Sheen in 2-1/2 men seems like he is alway in MLC,
Issues with his mother, drinking, running around. If that is not MLC, what is it?
Always in Replay maybe--wait, definitely.
I think Charlie Sheen is basically playing himself, so to talk about one is to talk about both.
If it's not MLC, it could be a variety of things. I think he's a narcissist. He's not MLC because the person in MLC is different than pre-MLC. Charlie's Replay persona is still Charlie and not some temporary MLC character. He also seems absent of guilt, shame and the typical fears symptomatic of MLC. He may drown himself in alcohol and women, but where's the depression? Everything about his life is isolated to the Bachelor Party type of Replay.
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One of the changes I have noticed in MLCer is the loss of introspection.
In the beginning stage of her MLC my W struggled with her conscience.
But slowly but surely her Shadow took over and she began to compromise her values and standards.
She insists that we abide by such values as equity, fairness, and integrity when we regard each other
but her actions don't reflect any of them. In the past, she would have caught the irony and laughed at herself.
But now, she is dead serious and incapable of seeing her inconsistency. In fact, she would manipulate
anything to justify her actions. She has regressed to become a simpleminded, opportunistic person.
I guess that's why people say MLC is second puberty.
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Nice illumination thanks I will read it several times.
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What was the purge at DB you reference? Sounds scary.
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A number of posters were banned from the DB forums for giving advice that wasn't consistent with the principles in the DB books, which is to look for positive, goal-oriented solutions to fixing relationship problems.
Banning people for having different points of view seems like it would be a bad thing, but the posters in question were encouraging people to do dangerous and even illegal things to uncover proof of affairs, confront or humiliate the cheating spouse, etc.
There was also a fair bit of bullying of people who were hesitant to take the advice being offered, and dissenting opinions were frequently shouted down. It was this last bit that caused me to start looking for a new place to post.
I would say that if you followed the advice being given over there at the time, you would be "happily" divorced right now with little chance of reconciliation -- ironic for a site that claims to "bust divorces".
(The DB moderators also clamp down on people giving out personal contact information, and there is no private message feature on their forums; this led to the "alt" groups on Facebook.)
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I've only just caught up on this discussion so I want to go right back to the beginning.
Many of us concentrate on the OW/OM because that is the most devastating thing that has happened to us as individuals and our children and the most emotional.
Personally I haven't put all my H journey on the forum and I am sure others haven't either. Some have talked of the spending, change in personality, the children, reverting back to younger years and other bizzare behaviours.
IMO it would be diffiult to know who is or who isn't in MLC unless you have the LBS sat with you to discuss and answer questions about their particular breakdown in the relationship and the behaviours and time line involved. IMO this differentiation between a run away or MLC is extremely difficult anyway without relying on the potentially fragmented history that is shared on the forum.
Personally I only share issues that I am struggling with at the time and not all the other behaviours I notice in my H.
All the views are interesting though :D
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Personally I haven't put all my H journey on the forum and I am sure others haven't either. Some have talked of the spending, change in personality, the children, reverting back to younger years and other bizzare behaviours.
IMO it would be diffiult to know who is or who isn't in MLC unless you have the LBS sat with you to discuss and answer questions about their particular breakdown in the relationship and the behaviours and time line involved. IMO this differentiation between a run away or MLC is extremely difficult anyway without relying on the potentially fragmented history that is shared on the forum.
Personally I only share issues that I am struggling with at the time and not all the other behaviours I notice in my H.
I always KNEW people didn't tell the whole story when they post; God has sometimes helped me to fill in the blanks; but I like DETAIL; and lots of it..this is how I work with my insight.
I may "know" things from time to time; but I am NOT a true psychic; although I display psychic abilities at times.
I cannot, at any time, pull things out of thin air; when/if do,only when necessary; and I don't get to do that often; as God does NOT make me "privy" to the details of other people's situations, and there are things I will NOT simply "know".
Anyway, I was open with everything I went through; and it was to help others on their journey; mine was one of the many POSSIBILITIES of how this could come out..and my experience in this was unique, although there were similarities.
Reading through the forum I'm not sure all of our spouses are actually in a MLC. So many of the stories focus only on the affair and the OW. An affair could mean anything. Where are the other signs?
Somewhere I saw RCR ask whether or not it mattered. Maybe it doesn't, but to me I think it does. So many people don't believe in MLC or believe it's just an excuse for bad behavior. If we just label every affair a MLC, then maybe they are right. Are there no distinguishing features? I realize it's hard or impossible to know for sure, but shouldn't we try to help each other determine whether or not our spouses are really in a MLC?
That is what I and so many others on here do; the people here are just as knowledgeable as I am; and they can tell the difference..if they have trouble; they can always PM RCR, Stayed, OP, and me with a question...there are some situations that are a "hard" read....but I haven't seen any yet, on THIS board that are NOT MLC.
And I guess, because my husband didn't give me the "speech" and he didn't do some of the things the OTHER MLC'ers have done; I suppose it meant my husband was NOT in MLC, and was just exhibiting bad behavior... but that was NOT true, he exhibited enough of the other behaviors that I KNEW for sure, there was a checklist on Jim Conway's site at one point; and I was seeing my husband in that; I had been dealing long enough BEFORE I was "bombed"..but the "bomb" was MY discovery of the porn; then, in less than a month, I discovered his affair.
I would NEVER have known what was going on if I hadn't literally "stumbled" onto what he was doing..he had hid it that well, but his behavior was very questionable the first two years after the accident he had that resulted in a fatality.
You see, you NEVER judge a book by its cover, or by everything people post, EXCEPT in their beginning post, which gives a great deal of information in itself.
Even then, they don't always tell everything....and I respect their privacy in that area; I had no shame; and still have no shame; but some people have a deep shame; plus the fact that they don't KNOW to put certain things down in the way of detail.
I've had to ask questions before to draw some detail out; but for the most part; I don't ask many questions; just let the Lord guide what I write; when He sends me into whichever thread I need to go into.
My INSIGHT is what I depend upon; and I'm not wrong often...and, I will tell you something else; the LORD revealed to me through someone else; back at the beginning of all the craziness, that my husband was going through a MLC complicated by sexual issues.
Later on, as my intuition developed; God dealt with me, directly; and has, for a LONG time.
I had to really do some research, before I concurred that he was INDEED going through the dreaded Change of Life/transition/MLC; as things didn't look exactly as they were supposed to..there were things my husband had NOT done or said to me.
As I got deeper into the crisis; I started learning various different things; and I watched my husband come through; one day at a time, one step at a time.
It was from that experience; and a few others, that I expounded and expanded Jim Conway's original six stages God was my helper in this, and He was the source for the additional information; such as the lessons; and some of the "whys" and such.
I LIVED through it before I wrote the Sermon's Thread...and I learned even more; as I worked with others until I left the other board in early 2003...it was last year, that I was brought back to do this again.
The situations are various in themselves; I look at ages; and what actions are posted to determine what I think.
True to form, "run of the mill" affairs; exhibit the same type of behavior; but age is one factor; and more than likely the affair is part of a "pattern" of behavior; that has repeated itself over and over throughout the years of that person's life.
People who have affairs, whether MLC or otherwise, contain a "character fault" within themselves; and are weak to the point of being susceptible to temptation.
Your average philanderer; has COMMITMENT problems that have REPEATED themselves throughout a period of time; has several failed marriages in that pattern of their life, whereas the MLC affair is USUALLY; (unless they are hopelessly addicted; and/or stuck in Replay), a "one time" deal. And that kind of affair is, a part of the time, somehow connected to their childhood wounds/issues. There have been actions seen by the LBS while the MLC'er was within the MLC affair that were "replay" or "reliving" actions; to relive a time so it could be done "right" the second time.
You would generally use the SAME type of changing journey and actions in regards to a regular type of affair, but like MLC, there are NO guarantees; just as there are NO guarantees in life, itself.
As each person is different, each MLC/Transition is different...and if you look backward in hindsight; you WILL see the signs that they were first drawing away from you.
As time goes on, you will notice they are angry; and they will say things, even then that don't make sense..but WILL make sense as you figure out what is going on with them; AFTER the BD; and not before.
It is contained within the stages; signs of their crisis...running behaviors, such as; yes, MLC AFFAIR or even MULTIPLE AFFAIRS, drinking heavily, doing drugs..any kind of drugs, taking unnecessary RISKS to life and limb, they will start dyeing their hair; plastic surgery to stay young, dental work, clothes will become younger; they will start "roaming" like they did as teens, and they DO start acting like children in puberty, no less.
They'll also tell the LBS they haven't been "happy" for years; most MLC'ers tell them they love them, but are not IN LOVE with them; also called the "speech"..they will ALSO start living for THEMSELVES; hence their selfish natures; some will waste money(also known as self medication of a sort, or a running behavior); rebel against EVERYTHING they ever knew or was taught in the way of "following the rules."
They will also, long before the BD; start talking about how they get "tired of the ratrace"..want to quit their jobs; do something else, or nothing at all. They need a LONG vacation; they can't even find the time to take off, because they have TOO many obligations, including their families; and yes, they do feel "trapped" by everything; and things WERE said; but since we did NOT understand..they went unnoticed by us...we were NOT listening.
And you know, it does NOT matter if we had been perfect spouses; because the crisis deals with individual issues; we could NOT have stopped it; even IF we'd known about it.
Even though I KNEW what my husband was going through/went through, it did NOT stop my transition from happening...I was forced into that part of my life that demanded even MORE change from me, anyway; and I had alot of issues and aspects to deal with..I could NOT get to everything during my husband's crisis; so some of it was put on "hold" until he was well on his way to coming out of the tunnel.
I didn't go "full blown" until he came out; and we were pretty well on our way...and that was one scary ride I don't wish to EVER repeat within myself. That was one of the reasons I took six years to come through; I faced my issues, and the aspects of each issue head on; and it STILL took me a long time to come through it all...and I didn't run from anything.
I was POWERLESS to stop this downward slide..but that's another story..and fits my point, too.
A transition that turns into a crisis is made up of EMOTIONAL ISSUES..where the mistake is made comes from the "RUNNING" that's done to try and get away from it in a cowardly way, instead of FACING it.
It's hard to face emotional pain; and it takes a great amount of strength to face oneself...unfortunately; most MLC'ers WON'T face themselves until they have reached the end of the line; and are FORCED to face themselves.
Like I said, there are things you won't see or even realize until it all goes to hindsight..there are issues within the crisis and there are aspects within same crisis.
What we generally do, is get the LBS to a good understanding of what is happening; then we encourage them to get their journey started; because there really IS NOTHING the LBS can do for the MLC'er; except let them go; let God work on them, get on with their lives; and walk the journey to wholeness and healing..
This looks like three quarters of a hijack; but, I believe your questions are fairly well answered; at least from MY point of view. :)
Love to you,
HB
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This has probably been done before but I cannot find a thread relating to it, or at least not the title.
I thought it might be helpful at times to have a bit of a catalogue of the symptoms and the 'remedies' MLC'ers use to combat said symptoms and to remind us that our spouses are indeed in MLC when we feel doubt. I think it would also be helpful to newbies.
I have this article today, it is a bit cliché and doesn't come from a formidable source of information (bit of a rag that newspaper) but my very own cliché MLC'er ticks a lot of the boxes :o
30 of them...Good going!
The top 40 signs of having a midlife crisis
1 Desiring a simpler life
2 Still going to music festivals like Glastonbury
3 Start looking up old boyfriends or girlfriends on Facebook
4 Realise you will never be able to pay off your mortgage
5 Joining Twitter so your bosses think you 'get' digital
6 Excessively reminisce about your childhood
7 Take no pleasure in your friends' successes
8 Splashing out on an expensive bicycle
9 Sudden desire to play an instrument
10 Fret over thinning hair
11 Take up a new hobby
12 Want to make the world a better place
13 Longingly look at old pictures of yourself
14 Dread calls at unexpected times from your parents (fearing the worst)
15 Go to reunion tours of your favourite bands from the 70s and 80s
16 Switch from Radio 2 to indie stations like 6 Music
17 Revisit holiday destinations you went to as a child
18 Cannot envisage a time when you will be able to afford to retire
19 Read obituaries in the newspapers with far greater interest — and always check how people die
20 Obsessively compare your appearance with others the same age
21 Start dyeing your hair when it goes grey
22 Stop telling people your age
23 Dream about being able to quit work but know that you'll Just never be able to afford to
24 Start taking vitamin pills
25 Worry about being worse off in your retirement than your parents
26 Want to change your friends but don't meet anyone new that you like
27 Think about quitting your Job and buying a bed & breakfast or a pub
28 Flirt embarrassingly with people 20 years your Junior
29 Look up your medical symptoms on the internet
30 Start thinking about going to church but never act on it
31 Always note when politicians or business leaders are younger than you
32 Contemplate having a hair transplant or plastic surgery
33 Take out a direct debit for a charity
34 Can't sleep because of work worries
35 Hangovers get worse and last more than a day on occasions
36 Constantly compare your career success with your friends
37 Worry about a younger person taking your Job
38 Take up triathlons or another extreme sport
39 Find that you are very easily distracted
40 Realise that the only time you read books is when you are on holiday
source:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10156725/Top-40-signs-of-a-midlife-crisis-revealed.html
41?
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41. Obsessing about death and taking risks.
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42. Wanting change in all areas of own life.
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43. Physical aches and pains...often unfounded.
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44. Change in diets- sometimes daily.
Please feel free to add your own little numbers of symptoms, ladies and gents :D
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45. Playing solitare on the computer obsessively
46. Start living in the basement
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Hi
Just attaching.. I have a feeling this thread could get interesting :)
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47. Substance abuse
48. Lies when it moves its lips.
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49. Finds a 'friend' >:(
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50. Nothing is their fault
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51. Lying.... - A LOT!
52. Memory loss - especially not remembering the lies they tell
:o :o :o :o
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53. Surround themselves with pond scums. To fulfil a sense of superiority.
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54
Constantly on the go including lots of travel.
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55. Incapable to feel or show compassion to others.
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56. sorry, that's just the way it is!
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This is good, had been thinking a thread like this could be a way to sum up the signs.
My H:
Starting running and eating healthily, lost weight
Angry
Mood swings
Working all the time
Obsessed with success
Money obsessed
Delusional about how much money he would make, started looking at private schools for our kids even though he had no income
Hanging out with a whole new set of people all part of his business
Staying out more and more (escape and avoid)
bought trendy watch and running suit, when I giggled and said it was all so trendy he hissed "but that is what I like."
Ultra defensive
Guilt presents for Xmas 2011
Had condoms in his wash bag after a night away
Denied any affair. When I said I felt insecure he sat me down in the bathroom and said "look TT all my friends fancy you" WTF!
Said "there are easier ways of meeting people than through social networking you know TT, I have had offers"
Started wearing skinny jeans and white converse boots and the stupid watch (that has settled down)
Used tens of thousands of pounds of our savings, he had no income whilst setting up business
Angry and defensive when I questioned it
BD after BD then gone.
Narcissistic traits
Cruel
Bullying
Total lack of empathy or care for us
Absolute total blame of me
I'm sure there are more signs but those are the main ones for me. I can tick a whole bunch of the ones at the beginning of the thread too!
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TT, you sound like you've had a lovely time of late! You poor soul! Hasn't been as bad here, but I've had the clothes, the watch (in fairness he's always loved watches but the latest one is a monstrosity!) the bike, working like mad, anger, cares for me (how sweet!) zero empathy, little contact, withdrawn, wants social life but doesn't do anything about it, smokes little fancy cigars(looks like a pimp if u ask me) and a few more!
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TT and PG
You made me giggle.
Skinny jeans and white converse boots ????
Fancy little cigars, looks like a pimp!!!!
When mine visited for sons 21st few months after BD he was showing nephew (late 20 s) some of his work out muscles and moves, he never lifted weights previously, did the odd bit jogging usually after christmas and new year, you know when your full of new year resolutions and went swimming from time to time but doing weights was definitely something new, as was the rather bright jacket I noticed slung over a chair, bit shocked when I found out it was his and not one of sons friends.
Its good to have a little giggle over it all but is very sad in reality.
Oh and another for the rather hip watch here lol, wonder if there is a mlc shop.
x
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i just have to do this???? leave marraige for pondscum just met for one day ?
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And on it goes... I also had: I have to leave, I'm more relaxed (staying at his mum with no responsibilities, I'd be relaxed too!!!). Sex with OW was so much better than with you , we did it all the time (you have no idea, but my self esteem went through the roof on that one!), she listens to me, so much easier to be with her....I think the skinny jeans and white conversion combo wins so far... I don't think I've topped that.... Wait, does fancy guitars, microphone and amps come close????
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Meant converse not conversion! iPhone tries to override my brain... Will probably win some day!
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Dressing like a teenager
New group of "friends" is much younger than himself, young and single.
Newly found love of Facebook rather than the pre-MLC disdain for it.
My husband became the complete opposite of who he was before in almost every single way. That was my big tell that this was a crisis.
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Night sweats! A few of us UK standers have recently found this was common to our H's just before BD. How weird is that.
Other physical symptoms . . . mine complained of stress-like things: showed me his shaking hands one morning. Said his brain felt 'hot' like it had been running too fast for too long; and it felt as though there was a band around his chest (this is actually referred to in one of the books I've read, too - can't remember which one though!).
Sudden weight loss.
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Weird!!! I had hand shaking too, I've noticed he had that....I wonder why that is? Is it the inner stress they are under?
Night sweats is true too, I just thought he was too hot during the night...then I live in Ireland, so that is a ridiculous thing for me to say, it's always cold and damp!!!
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My h started doing weights too ... He filled two big bottles of windscreen wash up with water and pumped iron! He's always felt like he had wimpy arms.
I think the guitar, amp and mic is brilliantly MLC!
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57. Strange and different body odor
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Took me to look at a plane we might buy - even though we were broke!!! And was cross that I didn't show enough interest!!! :0/ He can't fly, by the way!
Now twitches a lot.
X
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My W starting sweating more. In fact always complaining of being hot lately.
Also had tremors which I put down to the AD's.
Accusing anyone who needs anything from them as manipulative.
Expressing regret at having children.
Spray tans
Tattoos
Extreme weight loss
Constantly out (mine phoned me this morning saying she was having a coffee over the park as she was coming down with something and she needed some peace & quiet even though her flat is empty as I have the kids. ::)
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58. Says "I deserve to be happy".
59. Constantly acts like it's all about "me, me, me".
60. Obsessed with the gym, working out, hiking, biking, and trying to prove to the world how young and in shape they are.
61. Wants all of the assets and wants to leave the LBS with all of the debts.
62. Lies about their age...and everything else!
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63. Left you because you are "too controlling" but is at the beck and call of the OP.
64. Complains about the OP yet still caters to every whim
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65. Insane desire to drop to the floor and show S10 how many pushups he can do!
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My MLCer had many physical ailments, both real and I believe imagined, the year or so following BD. I do think it is the stress of the inner turmoil.
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Took me to look at a plane we might buy - even though we were broke!!! And was cross that I didn't show enough interest!!! :0/ He can't fly, by the way!
Now twitches a lot.
X
I just LOVE that one, he can't fly anyway...who said MLC cannot have a funny side, so pathetically ridiculous at times! My H put up on FB a prayer
"Heavenly father, walk through my home and take away all my worries and illnesses.
Please watch over and heal my family and friends.
Bless my home, family and friends with peace, love and joy in Jesus name. Amen"
Now my H is the least religious person I know...what do you think this is about then????
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61. About assets, this is so true. Give me the car and half our money .. H demanded and demanded. He now will do anything to stop me getting my hands on any of his business assets.
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PatienceGalore,
Religion is one of the 4 pillars of MLC. I'm guessing his FB prayer just shows you that he's got that "pillar" covered. As long as he's obsessing about his body, ready to quit his job, and has an OW, he's checked all 4 pillars off and we can give him an A+ for MLC:)
J.
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I did not know about Religion being a pillar? he does not believe in God, so what is that, I don't get it?
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Sorry feel bit thick here ... What are the four pillars if MLC?
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Jim Conway who is an MLC expert, wrote a book called Men in Midlife Crisis. He calls the four enemies of MLC their spouse, their jobs, their bodies, and God.
Patience, MLCers tend to be quite opposite of who they were before as it is a severe identity crisis. If he wasn't a religious man before, he may just be "trying on" something new. Or maybe he just liked the prayer.
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My H has hit all 4 now. Left me (spouse), Lost the job he had at BD, is obsessed with his body and his health, and has stopped going to church. Check, check, check and check.
Now what?
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Possibly, he might like it? It is so strange, because it is completely the opposite to what he would ever have put on FB and would have just laughed or dismissed such sentiments.
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My H has hit all 4 now. Left me (spouse), Lost the job he had at BD, is obsessed with his body and his health, and has stopped going to church. Check, check, check and check.
Now what?
Mine hit them all very hard too, SF. He didn't lose his job but instead was constantly complaining about it and it was what was causing all of his problems (well, other than me, our horrible marriage, etc.).
Now you sit back and let him have his crisis and get them all sorted out. Now 4.5 years post BD, my H's job is not his enemy anymore. I am waiting to see what happens with the rest.
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http://nashlinks.com/midlife
Albatross put this on another thread, thought it was quite relevant here too!
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Now you sit back and let him have his crisis and get them all sorted out. Now 4.5 years post BD, my H's job is not his enemy anymore. I am waiting to see what happens with the rest.
Wow Trusting, 4.5 years? All I can say is Wow. I'm only a little over a year in. I don't even want to think that far just yet. How much different will I be by then? More independent, stronger, wiser, more confident......I may just outgrow my H by then!
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Wow Trusting, 4.5 years? All I can say is Wow. I'm only a little over a year in. I don't even want to think that far just yet. How much different will I be by then? More independent, stronger, wiser, more confident......I may just outgrow my H by then!
MLC takes time. A LOT of time. Yes, you probably will have "outgrown" your husband, at least emotionally, long before that amount of time passes. Hopefully though the MLC will help them grow up too. I will say that it has been nice to hear my husband speak positively about his job for the first time since even at least a year or two pre-BD.
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Well...isn't all this so very therapeutic! ;D
I shall make a list of all symptoms when we reach the 150 posts mark :)
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Booboo it really helps doesn't it, for us to see all the behaviours as script.
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It really does. And when looking at it, personally, it makes me think that life is too short to pay much attention to any of it.
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I think you are right, we can just accept we are all dealing with MLC and then get going with our own thing. I have spent a year and half questioning if its MLC or not and it just is! Nothing we can do except help each other navigate the communications and ups and downs.
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Am I the only one that had to go looking at aeroplanes to purchase - surely not?!?
X
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I had to look at generators because a recession is like the apocalypse, dontchya know! ::)
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Yes Serenity, yours seems to be the only one that thinks he could fly lol, unless of course someone else knows different.
Most of them are happy to run away, bless him yours wanted to fly away.
Maybe he could of just run along with a kite, that might have helped.
x
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He got a kite after he left and played with it and then put the pictures on f/b! Ha ha!
I'm VERY disappointed I'm the only one with H who wanted a plane! I don't want to be the odd one out. He he. That means he's even more weird than the rest of them put together ;0)
X
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66. Tells you that you have been vindictive for a long time now!
67. Accuses you of being a score-keeper!
68. Shows the OW his underwater pictures that he took while scuba diving...the same ones he showed you 20 years ago!
69. Bought 2 new expensive cars, traded one for the other, within 2 years. (the cars did not fill the empty hole I'm guessing)
No, my MLCer did not try to buy a plane, nor can he fly a plane but the alimony sure costs him more than my credit card did. LOL..not really funny but then again my small credit card payment was his major complaint at the time. I wonder what he is complaining about now??
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70 I am going to do whatever I want, I don't care what anyone's thinks..I am hot stuff with my 24 yr old OW who has a serious PD.
71. I'll give you spousal and child support but you must carry all the debt, so I can run off and have fun with no worries and stress of being an adult.
72. What I have a baby, well your a good mom. I'llwait until she is out of diapers to take her out.
73. Stop going in to work..I'll work from home and my assistant OW will do that too.
74. Maybe I'll work from the bush up north fishing...h*ll, who needs to work.
75. My ego is so huge...that OW has put me so high on that pedestal I can't see the ground.
76. Wants to try out for Duck Dynasty..I have the looks and have some money..I'll fit right in.
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Serenity,
Mine didn't try to fly in a plane but he did take up zip-lining. I guess that's flying with a wire and a skanky other woman behind you:)
J.
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Wait!! Night sweats?? I never realized this was part of it. Why would that be so? Mind had horrific night sweats. And tapping feet.. Always tap, tap, tapping
77. I want you in my life but I'm not sure in what capacity (OUCH!)
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Mine told me he'd met such lovely new people and friends in his life that truly cared for him and respected who he was!
Today - he has no one. Oh but wait, apparently that's my fault too :0/. Ugh!!!!
X
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My h didn't want a plane ( probably because he hadnt thought of that one) but was obsessed with buying a boat ;D
Then he decided he was going to buy a see doo. Never happened...
my kids and I got really good at nodding and smiling ;)
Adding to the list:
Early in the crisis
-Very juvenile behavior and lingo.
-constantly talking about himself and very boastful.
- delusions of grandeur.
-paranoia
- hyperactive and fidgety
- deceitful and big stupid ridiculous liar
-extremely bad memory
Then came:
Constantly sick
Moments of self doubt and worry
Problems sleeping
Puppy monster behavior
weird fad diets and over exuberance about trendy super foods and power vitamins. All short lived.
Obsession with house music and has fantasies of being a dj.
- bad memory, although getting better
I can go on and on , but Ill stop now.
Great thread!!!
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Hi Jagger,
I can SO relate to almost all you said - sadly!!!
Mine has developed such ridiculously expensive taste too. It's laughable as he's so broke!
X
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Wait!! Night sweats?? I never realized this was part of it. Why would that be so? Mind had horrific night sweats. And tapping feet.. Always tap, tap, tapping
Decreasing testosterone. Andropause.
Men can potentially suffer exactly the same symptoms as women do at menopause.
Think from memory 30% men suffer night sweats.
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Oh my goodness - yes - the fidgeting, twitching and nail biting!
X
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Yep, night sweats, buckets of it. Pillows and quilts disposed off and replaced frequently as a result. Pongy stuff!
Mine may not have wanted to buy a plane but he treated himself to a trip on a stunt plane. ::) Now wants to do a parachute jump. ::).
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I'm quite happy with the answer to the night sweats thingy. Low testosterone fits in nicely with my own little fantasy.. of him having a (not so) 'hard' time being intimate..
Thanks. That made me smile :)
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The odour is something else, JB!! Never smelled anything like it.
He used to go to bed before me and I used to have to make it clear to him not to move to my side. Many a night I got into bed with the top of the quilt being saturated with sweat! BARF!!!!!!
His pillows stunk and he was well aware of it!
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I'm VERY disappointed I'm the only one with H who wanted a plane! I don't want to be the odd one out. He he. That means he's even more weird than the rest of them put together ;0)
X
I have lurked here for a LONG time, but just had to pop in and reply to this.
My Husband wanted to buy an antique stunt plane and make a living doing air shows. (Nevermind that he had never flown ANY plane!)
While I'm at it, one of the "reasons" he gave at BD (1/12) was "You never fill the SALT SHAKER!" They are all batsh1t crazy!
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Well my W did not want to buy a boat but she told me two days after BD that she was going to get a rich man and live on a boat!! Then an old man. Oh and then an ugly man because good looking men are @$$holes. I took that as a compliment. These choices were all disclosed within 5 minutes of each other.......an old ugly rich man on a boat.....I bet she is affairing down with black beard the pirate!!
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I'm VERY disappointed I'm the only one with H who wanted a plane! I don't want to be the odd one out. He he. That means he's even more weird than the rest of them put together ;0)
X
I have lurked here for a LONG time, but just had to pop in and reply to this.
My Husband wanted to buy an antique stunt plane and make a living doing air shows. (Nevermind that he had never flown ANY plane!)
While I'm at it, one of the "reasons" he gave at BD (1/12) was "You never fill the SALT SHAKER!" They are all batsh1t crazy!
Not filling the salt shaker? I am appalled at that, Mi!!
I am afraid you fail at being a domestic goddess!!!
;)
Is he allergic to refilling it himself then? lol
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Not filling the salt shaker? I am appalled at that, Mi!!
I am afraid you fail at being a domestic goddess!!!
;)
Is he allergic to refilling it himself then? lol
At BD I received the salt shaker quote and something to do with hand towels in the bathroom...so it looks like I'm a fail at domestic goddess. Of course, he had been unhappy for YEARS and YEARS and never said anything!
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Tell me about it Serenity, we hadn't payed the house taxes in years however he needed to own a water toy.i guess he thought it would turn back the years ;D ;D like a time machine.
BC77, your post made me laugh out loud. :)
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Joining the party.
Mine had the night sweats and the smell.........it was pretty disgusting. He purchased 3 vehicles......one for OW#1 before we divorced. Two vehicles for himself.......traded a 3 yr old one for a brand new one.....just because I rode/drove the other one....and bought himself a sports car. Add in 8 motorcycles......leather clothes for riding. He never got to do the other thing he said he wanted to do.......take flying lessons. Said he couldn't afford the fuel/expense. Seems they all have the same sort of thoughts........crazy!
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Well my W did not want to buy a boat but she told me two days after BD that she was going to get a rich man and live on a boat!! Then an old man. Oh and then an ugly man because good looking men are a$$holes. I took that as a compliment. These choices were all disclosed within 5 minutes of each other.......an old ugly rich man on a boat.....I bet she is affairing down with black beard the pirate!!
That is hilarious! I got I want to take risks in my life...for the record, he has moved into his mother's house...that could be considered risky by some I suppose!!!
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I think you are right, we can just accept we are all dealing with MLC and then get going with our own thing. I have spent a year and half questioning if its MLC or not and it just is! Nothing we can do except help each other navigate the communications and ups and downs.
I did too, until I have had in the last 3 days confirmation of a lot of symptoms including hating his job, the night sweats, shaky hands, cycling, and the weird things coming out of his mouth. I've had the fortune of landing on this thread, and I am laughing my head off, I love the high-wire flying quote! Also some great LBS have been following my thread and confirming since I started it was MLC. it makes it so much easier to "accept" and carry on....
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http://nashlinks.com/midlife
Albatross put this on another thread, thought it was quite relevant here too!
I have just read the link above and I smirked as I saw everything bar 1 or 2 items that happened to me.
Would you recommend sending this to the H or W to see what they respond?
It would be highly amusing to say the least!
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PatienceGalore,
Religion is one of the 4 pillars of MLC. I'm guessing his FB prayer just shows you that he's got that "pillar" covered. As long as he's obsessing about his body, ready to quit his job, and has an OW, he's checked all 4 pillars off and we can give him an A+ for MLC:)
J.
Now I get it. He had OW (she is gone), he did obsess about the body, but less lately, he has started hating his job and he always hated religion!
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Thanks for an early morning snicker! Read all the way through this thread. Dear God, can I identify! Hahahahahaha!!! Oddly comforting. Baths!t crazy doesn't even begin to cover it.
"I've never been allowed to have emotions." Said Crazy A$$MLCer
"F me if I'm mad or sad or anything else!"
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Great thread by the way... :)
1. Everyone at work is against him, so pretty much hates everyone.
2. Turns into one of the scum, he despises at work.
3. Hates everyone in general.
4. If he is still living at home, then hides in the bedroom and stays away from everyone.
5.Drinks and does drugs.
6. Hangs out with people the same age as his young, adult kids.
7.Gets new toys such as four wheelers and off/on road motorcycle.
8. Drives new toys like a lunatic.
9.Drives while on drugs or drunk, maybe both.
10. Gets into an accident on new toy, once, twice maybe more. Hey why not? You only live once right!
11. Gambles in one way or another.
12. Sleeps a lot and can't figure out why he's sick.
13. Thinks taking antidepressants are the cure all.
14. Posts dumb pictures on FB ,like pictures of himself having so much fun. Yes, everyone is sooo impressed by that picture of you sitting at a table with a beer bottle.
15.Dresses stupid. Dumb new shoes that your young adult son would wear.
16. Cell phone becomes a new part of the body, like a third hand. Even sleeps with it.
17. Thinks they are so important.
18. Wears enough axe spray or other stinky stuff, so there's a cloud around him ,like Pigpen of the Peanuts cartoon.
19. Brags about how much weight he's lost on Facebook or to others. Doesn't mention that it's from not eating, sleeping all the time and depressed.
20. Does stupid stuff before leaving home like starting to fix the roof and leaving in the middle of it.
I'm sure there's more.
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51. Won't look you in the eyes.
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18. Wears enough axe spray or other stinky stuff, so there's a cloud around him ,like Pigpen of the Peanuts cartoon.
I laughed at this one..my girls used to complain about this IN HIGH SCHOOL!! The boys would spray a cloud of this stuff so thick you could smell it when you walked passed the locker room!
And I know how you feel about the roof..the former mlcer I dealt with never finished anything either...
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Very funny thread! Yes recognise many if not most of these behaviours!
Mine has 'friends' on fakebook whom he doesn't know, has never met ... about 90 of them! Mainly Spanish ... he's obsessed with flamenco ... wants to meet a sexy flamenco dancer for passionate sex with castanets !! click click. lol Oh and he doesn't speak Spanish so occasionally posts to them using google translate ... what must they think!
xxx
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Musica.... :o Wow! You just can't make this sh!t up, can you? LOL
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Hahhha ;D ;D ;D Yes Wow indeed ... mine is particularly afflicted I think with delusions of Spanishness. He's completely bonkers ... he was brought up in North UK ... his dad was a 20 stone miner, his mum not much different!! ... further removed from a flamenco dancer you could not get.
Totally bonkers. xxx
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14. Posts dumb pictures on FB ,like pictures of himself having so much fun. Yes, everyone is sooo impressed by that picture of you sitting at a table with a beer bottle.
Laughed out loud at that one.
Well my W did not want to buy a boat but she told me two days after BD that she was going to get a rich man and live on a boat!! Then an old man. Oh and then an ugly man because good looking men are a$$holes. I took that as a compliment. These choices were all disclosed within 5 minutes of each other.......an old ugly rich man on a boat.
Wow, what a goal.
Oh and then an ugly man because good looking men are a$$holes.
Love that one too. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D She might be right on that one! Kidding. What would I know about good looking men?
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D OMG you guys are sooooooo funny!!!
I still want a T-shirt that says "You can't make this $h!te up!!" Every time I read that line (and I've read it a lot.).it cracks me totally up!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What a great thread! This needs to be read when you start thinking that maybe your spouse isn't a typical MLCer.
Mine has/had:
Night sweats
Bought the new vehicle - a van for his bikes but I also use it and want 'joint custody'!
Hates his job and wants to change - difficult because there isn't enough equity in it to sell it
Took a huge interest in various super foods, and until he left was taking vitamins, etc. Don't know if he still is.
Everyone is out to get him, make his day worse, annoy him deliberately
Started running and bought a home gym but that's stopped now. He just walks and I use the gym :)
Obsessed with how others have done so well in their business/job whereas he has worked twice as many hours (true, I'll give him that) and got no money and nothing to show for it - what have I done with all the money because the accountant aid the business has made a profit!!
Complains the friends of his age won't go bike riding (family men, responsibilities, hello!!) so now tries to get ones young enough to be his sons to go with him. And then tries to be better than them.
Is learning Spanish with CD's. It will help him when he is travelling overseas on his bike when he travels through South America and USA. Not sure how much he actually knows yet!
When he was still living here he would trawl through YouTube listening to all the old head banging music. We went to see Status Quo in concert too! But also 'my old mans the dustbin man' and 'lily the pink' seemed to be played a lot. Got really cranky when I disconnected the speakers and feigned concern about the computer ;D
Yep, he is definitely in MLC :)
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My mlcer scores 6 on your list. Good boy!
To a tee as well lol,..the bike ride thing, yup, yup, yup!
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H didn't go after a plane or a boat. That's going to be me - I've recently ordered two inflatable kayaks! I have no idea how to use them but D19 and I are going to have fun learning. H can't complain about the $$$ either cos I used exactly half of the points accumulated on our credit card :). Thinking about it, I bought a bikini recently too, the first one since I was 3 - does this mean I'm in MLC?????
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I bought a bikini recently too, the first one since I was 3 - does this mean I'm in MLC?
Nope. Means you're in LBS! It's the lbs diet, the mirror work & the new found freedom.
My friend's mlc h53 has had the ow for 2+ years now along with all the other cliches including condo, except, you guessed it, he recently bought a street motorcycle. He had to book lessons because, he has never ridden a motorcycle...I think my friend should buy life insurance on him. Speaking of which, if mlc really exists the insurance companies will be on it--refused due to mlc.
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Comes home to get things when no ones home.
Gets into the family photos. Hmmmm project for me. Move the family pictures.
Mail stacks up ,untouched
Disappears like a ghost
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Comes home to get things when no ones home.
Yep, tough guy H, decided to wait until I took kids on vacation after BD before coming here to get some things, and when he did, he arrived with a big smile, announcing to the world how we had mutually split (took me ages to get over that :o), and sneakily took his things, making sure he was long gone before we got home. Ran into the cat sitter too, and went about loading up his car, with a big smile and a look of "woohoo, look at me, I'm soo good, and most of all, I'm young and freeeeee" ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Complains the friends of his age won't go bike riding (family men, responsibilities, hello!!) so now tries to get ones young enough to be his sons to go with him. And then tries to be better than them. Wow, that's a real man!! ;)
Is learning Spanish with CD's. Wow, multilingual It will help him when he is travelling overseas on his bike when he travels through South America and USA. Not sure how much he actually knows yet!
When he was still living here he would trawl through YouTube listening to all the old head banging music. We went to see Status Quo in concert too! LOVE SQ - when I was a kid - would have gone too But also 'my old mans the dustbin man' and 'lily the pink' seemed to be played a lot.
THAT MADE MY DAY!!! LAUGHED OUT LOUD TILL I CRIED - OH MY LORD, LILY THE PINK AND MY OLD MANS A DUSTMAN - MY FAVES WHEN I WAS A KID.Got really cranky when I disconnected the speakers and feigned concern about the computer ;D
What happened to him, did he swallow a Top of the Pops DVD? He has fallen back into the 70's!!! I feel Showaddywaddy or Slade coming on or maybe some Bay City Rollers?? Ask him to do a David Essex just for me......pleeeeeeeease! Loved him :-*
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Snowdrop - he came across some old Top of the Pops clips too. How did we ever wear such fashion? Thank goodness there aren't many photos of me back in those days, the kids would wet themselves laughing.
I have a photo somewhere of H with longish hair wearing a tartan cap. It would be worth re activating FB to post it on there ;D. Soooo handsome!!
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I have a photo somewhere of H with longish hair wearing a tartan cap.
8) :-* 8) :-* 8) :-* 8) :-* 8)
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What a great thread! This needs to be read when you start thinking that maybe your spouse isn't a typical MLCer.
That's where I am! So, yes, BTC, I agree great thread for the giving up moments.
Night sweats is getting mentioned more and more often - I think it's a great one as there's no denying when the sheets are just soggy. UGH! :P
A few more:
Talking in very serious tones about 'life's journey' and 'even if it leads to the precipice'... this is the path I must take.
Living in very small, paper-walled dwelling, with very pricey car in the drive - ie priorities spot on.
Realising past two decades were HUGE mistake. But someone else's mistake.
Talking to LBS about OW. As if LBS were on Samaritan's helpline. eg 'I miss her so much I could jump off a bridge.' (That's one is true, btw. I wish I'd said, 'That's nice, dear.' )
Texting under a cushion like a 15 year old caught with new girlfriend.
Getting excited about owning their own first ironing board and casserole dish. At 45....
Being so spontaneous that they say something one day that directly contradicts what they've said a week ago. Who cares. Life is for rethinking, day on day.
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exting under a cushion like a 15 year old caught with new girlfriend.
Laughed out loud at that one.
You should add these to the Script threads. Have you read them? I read them from time to time and cry laughing.
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[/quote]
Getting excited about owning their own first ironing board and casserole dish. At 45....
[/quote]
Two comments - does he know he will need an iron to go with the board, and does he know what to do with the casserole dish? It's not for slinging the car keys in ;D
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Really, that's what I do with mine...damn...no one told me!
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Wants to become prime minister and sort the country out....with this face >:(
Doesn't trust the banks....not even the cashiers at the local branch. ???
Constantly tries to tell me what to do and how to. ::)
Ignores boundaries...I couldn't have voiced them any louder! >:(
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I have 5 words...
"Wanna be a rock star..." :( ::) 8) :D
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Teenage dirtbag, baby!
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Really, that's what I do with mine...damn...no one told me!
Hahaha PG me too!!
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Booboo, Hahahahahahahahaha!!! YES! Perfect!
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Two comments - does he know he will need an iron to go with the board,
Guarantee he will set up the ironing board on that really low level, and use it as a surf board in the living room :o
Casserole dish will be used for his crisps.
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Just found out from S10 that H told him he had to leave because the dogs barked too loudly when they wanted to go outside.... :o Guess I should have taught them how to whisper! Get it? Dog whisper? hahahahahahah!
Sorry!
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Doesn't trust the banks....not even the cashiers at the local branch
;D ;D ;D ;D
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he had to leave because the dogs barked too loudly when they wanted to go outside....
HOW DARE THEY!! That's dogs for you.
No contest there at seeing who is the smartest ;)
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Yes, and he doesn't like the quieter cats either as his mother told him they stalked him as a child when he would play outside and that they would smother him to death while he was sleeping if they got into the house......H isn't the only one who is bat-sh*t crazy!
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Doesn't trust the banks....not even the cashiers at the local branch
;D ;D ;D ;D
yep - ditto!!! ;D
AND
"I'm the fittest 39 year old I know" - he says with a chest cold, constant headaches and inflamed psoriasis!!
Yep, righto!!
xxx
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CB75, that line has put a very odd picture in my head!!! ::)
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"I'm the fittest 39 year old I know" - he says with a chest cold, constant headaches and inflamed psoriasis!!
8):-* 8):-* 8):-* 8)
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''I don't dislike you as a person''
Jeee, thanks....just call me d!ck, Tom or Harry from now on then if you like.
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"Heavenly father, walk through my home and take away all my worries and illnesses.
[/b][/u]
PG - I'm kind of thinking he meant YOU!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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13 Longingly look at old pictures of yourself
;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8)
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My h put a picture of himself when he was a teen with a long hair on Facebook. Replay anyone?
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Son 16 told mlcer today that he'd like a psp for Christmas. Mlcer said :
I think I'll get myself one of them, too
*sigh*
Sometimes, my mlcer is about 10 years old, When it comes to possessions anyway.
His stepdad used to sell his toys and things to buy booze....
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Son 16 told mlcer today that he'd like psp for Christmas. Mocer said :
I think I'll get myself one of them, too
I don't even know what a psp is and it sounds funny ;D
My h put a picture of himself when he was a teen with a long hair on Facebook.
Attractive ::) H grew his hair too, but no-one seems to have told him how wrong he looks. A guy over 50, balding, with pathetic hair, does NOT grow it. Doesn't realize it isn't as he thinks it is - I think he thinks it is Brian May from Queen, but in reality it is about 2-3 inches growing horizontally :o ::) Oh, you have to laugh, especially when the poor things think they look so cool. Add a key chain on his hoodie zipper, and he was something else. Love a man over 50 with a keychain on his zipper, and a BIG one too. ::)
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It will be interesting to see what H does with his hair. He usually gets me to clipper it with a #2, he hasn't been to a hairdresser for years. But, before he met me there was a very adventurous hairdresser that bounced between him and his mate ( and together :o ??? :o) so I wonder if he will wander off to find a hairdresser now as part of replay?
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portable playstation, snowdrop lol
Imagine a ginger man, with his glasses on that do not suit him, 36 looking 42, playing that!
That would make him look even more ridiculous than he does when he rides his 125 dirtbike....with L plates on 8)
Mr Boombastic! Smooth!
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On the theme of hair...
Lasering hair off back, neck and shoulders...but it hurt to much so stopped.
Buying and using Rogaine but hiding the bottle.
Self tanning products are important too.
Even better-He's now growing facial hair so he can look like the guy on "Breaking Bad". YEP! Didn't make that one up either.
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it is so hilarious to read.
Well, we have the most hideous taste in shirts...at our daughter's debs, he wore this stripy shirt (I bet his mummy endorsed it) and I said: where did you get that shirt. He said: you don't like it, look the stripes go with the trousers. I answered: only one of the stripes goes with the trousers, the others just came along for the ride...you really need me to go shopping with you for shirts.
He did see the funny side of this! oh my lord, a clown would not have gone out into the ring with that on!
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I noticed the other day during my wonderful visit,that mine has colored his hair once again. Nice, one tone ,blondish, weird colo.r. He doesn't need to look younger he has an old hag for a GF. She's the same age as him too.
Yup, old pic. of him, me and an old friend on FB a few months ago when he snuck in and got into the pictures. I need to move my pictures so he cant take any. He also posted old pics. of the kids a while back too.
Has anyones spouse removed pics. of them from FB. There were some good ones of my H in Iraq, standing on his truck with my name on it. A few others too of me.
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very adventurous hairdresser that bounced between him and his mate ( and together :o ??? :o) so I wonder if he will wander off to find a hairdresser now as part of replay?
Hope he gets some tight bubble perm!
portable playstation, snowdrop lol
Imagine a ginger man, with his glasses on that do not suit him, 36 looking 42, playing that!
That would make him look even more ridiculous than he does when he rides his 125 dirtbike....with L plates on 8)
You made my day. I'm sitting here laughing away to myself, and just getting over a cough, so sounding very attractive :o even if I must say myself. Okay, just read them again and they are just as funny ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Think I need to print those out and stick them on my phone.
Even better-He's now growing facial hair so he can look like the guy on "Breaking Bad". YEP! Didn't make that one up either.
Wow, love that in a man, not the facial hair, wanting to copy the look of some guy on TV! :o
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In the beginning.....maybe 6 to 8 months after BD, my ex shaved his head and his chest. I don't know why he told me and I never saw him so I have no idea what he looked like. I told him that he shouldn't have shaved his chest....he told me he would grow it back for me....even though I didn't get to see him again. He had also posted a high school picture of himself on FB....one when his hair was permed no less. My exH has little to no hair....very thin. Well, he also posted a more recent photo of us together and cropped me out of it....he was really happy in the picture. The other pictures he posted was of him dressed in all his leather...."do rag" or beanie hat on his head...standing proudly by his many different motors he purchased. That FB page was deactivated by him shortly after his suicide attempt. It stayed down for nearly two years but he activated it about 6 months ago. He removed ALL his pictures and crazy posts....so....I wonder....what does that mean? Did he realize how insane it made him look? Does that mean he is thinking and functioning more clearly? Hard to know anything with him.
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Well, he also posted a more recent photo of us together and cropped me out of it....he was really happy in the picture.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
He had also posted a high school picture of himself on FB....one when his hair was permed no less.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Has anyones spouse removed pics. of them from FB. There were some good ones of my H in Iraq, standing on his truck with my name on it. A few others too of me.
Yes, right after BD, H removed all but one or two pictures of me from his FB as he tried to convince the 21-year-old OW1 that his marriage had been over for a long time. :o :o ;D
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funny a month before BD my h posted about 600 pictures of us on FB? from son being a baby all our holidays and family stuff saying how lovely it all was ?????
madness
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portable playstation, snowdrop lol
Imagine a ginger man, with his glasses on that do not suit him, 36 looking 42, playing that!
That would make him look even more ridiculous than he does when he rides his 125 dirtbike....with L plates on
I'm still laughing at this one from Booboo. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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As my mind clears from shock more crazy incidents spring to mind. I am sorry to lower the tone but it was my MLCer not me!!
We were in a shopping queue on the day I took her shopping about 2 months ago. I offered to cook her and D3 some dinner at my flat on the way home. Now bare in mind she was a fairly conservative girl in public. She replied quite loudly 'would you lick my p#ssy as well. '
People heard . I calmly replied 'not before dinner,' blushed and turned round. Then she giggled like a school girl because she made me blush.
I mean what the hell happens to the brains of these people?
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Trying not to laugh Braincell - but when it happens it's pretty horrific I know. My H went from a gentleman to a debauched randy teen. It was pretty shocking to watch.
I mean what the hell happens to the brains of these people?
It's called disinhibition and is caused due to the hormonal and brain changes that reduce the blood flow to the prefrontal cortex. -- these lead to the dirty/grumpy old man/woman stereotypes.
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Just found this and laughed so hard I had to lie to D17 about what was so funny. H wears Axe all the time now where he never wore anything before and the girls have been giving him serious grief, telling him he is like a 12yo boy! I'm like, kids you have no idea! And the picture of him as a teen with longer hair-but sadly not as long as it now! The similarities go on and on. What a nice bit of comic relief.
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;D bipolared. We have to laugh
That reminds me of my H trying too hard to convince himself at BD - he never wore cologne, but purchased a bottle of Clinique Happy. The smell made my stomach lurch and it didn't seem to have the effect on his mood that he desired. He's stopped wearing it recently, hopefully it ran out.
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My H has started to wear AXE, I can't stand it.....it happened after BD......I was talking to my guitar teacher and he said what's wrong with axe's it's like Febreze but for your body....nothing else covers up the smell of sweat like AXE ;) Bearing in mind he is 28. H is 43 yrs young ???. I guess he needs something heavy duty when he's been with OW before turning up at the office.....no time for a shower etc... ::)
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No Axe for mine, thank God. He has grown a beard, though..and is now complaining about the grey in it. ::)
From way back in September...
My MLCer had many physical ailments, both real and I believe imagined, the year or so following BD. I do think it is the stress of the inner turmoil.
Oh my stars and garters, YES!! Hy H has been sick more in the past 6 months than he was in 6 years previous to BD! Now he's getting ulcers...says maybe it's stress. Ummm...ya think?!
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- he ..purchased a bottle of Clinique Happy. The smell made my stomach lurch and it didn't seem to have the effect on his mood that he desired.
Priceless, Kikki!!
My MLCer had many physical ailments, both real and I believe imagined, the year or so following BD. I do think it is the stress of the inner turmoil.
Oh my stars and garters, YES!! Hy H has been sick more in the past 6 months than he was in 6 years previous to BD! Now he's getting ulcers...says maybe it's stress. Ummm...ya think?!
Yep. mine too. Headaches, and one day I got an automated message saying scrip is ready to be picked up at pharmacy for H. Right away my mind goes to one of two things: Viagra or antidepressants. So, I rushed down there to see for myself. He had just picked it up minutes before I got there. It was for a headcold. But...having said that, I'm one of those natural people. We never go to the Dr for sniffles and stuff like that. I brew up a concoction or two, and start mass doses of C, etc.
Now that H doesn't have me to do his doctoring, he goes straight to the chemicals.
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I will also add that he looks absolutely terrible. His face is Sooo bloated and pasty with little pink blotches here and there. Like a blowfish. I was telling someone about this, and they said it could be from excessive drinking. (liver shock ???)
Who knows. but, whatever she's feeding him, keep it up - makes me look good.
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My H has started to wear AXE, I can't stand it
What is it with Axe and MLC???? My H started wearing it too! It reeks! Yuk! HE reeks!
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;D bipolared. We have to laugh
That reminds me of my H trying too hard to convince himself at BD - he never wore cologne, but purchased a bottle of Clinique Happy. The smell made my stomach lurch and it didn't seem to have the effect on his mood that he desired. He's stopped wearing it recently, hopefully it ran out.
Just before final BD3 we had just been on holiday to France and i bought my h some chanel EGOISTE! ... oh how I didn't know how apt I was being.
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LOL TT!!
Hoss was always way into high end cologne. Axe entered the house at one point ??? before BD - but after - wait for it - he switched to OLD SPICE. Made a really big deal of it. Literally said to me (after he has moved out!!): "It was good enough for my grandpa, so it's good enough for me!". ??? ::) Then he smelled like teenaged sweat, and the last time I saw him, he didn't smell like anything. I guess that's a step up!
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What's Axe?
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AXE is LYNX for us, TT.
Cheap stuff, like our MLCers ;)
They probably believe the ads and that the deodorant will have women running after them like they are the last man on earth hehehehe.
But it could also be to cover the rancid smell of the sweat emanating from their body due to hormonal changes. YUKKY STUFF!
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Drinks to avoid feeling anything
Pre-bday, says he has no identity
Night sweats
Obsession with his body
Obsession with "clean" foods, various chemicals to enhance muscle growth
Workaholic
Boasting, bragging
Spending money on things without talking to me, eg two racehorses
Obsessed about his health
Mood swings! Dreadful dark moods, don't miss those!
Negative towards himself
Obsessed about money
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Drinks to avoid feeling anything
Pre-bday, says he has no identity
Night sweats
Obsession with his body
Obsession with "clean" foods, various chemicals to enhance muscle growth
Workaholic
Boasting, bragging
Spending money on things without talking to me, eg two racehorses
Obsessed about his health
Mood swings! Dreadful dark moods, don't miss those!
Negative towards himself
Obsessed about money
TICK, TICK, TICK, TICK, TICK....
Yup, got all those, too.
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I'm surprised at all of the MLCers that were obsessed with money. My W became obsessed about money and the lack of it. So, moving into a high end apartment is going to solve all of our money problems right? ??? Any way, it is somehow a little reassuring that it is common in MLC. Oh, and spending lots of money we don't have on new clothes for yourself and not for the kids will help too.
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Got this one too. This whole thing came about in part b/c of money problems yet H will be renting an apartment in one of the most desirable areas of the city while we are stashed out in the country in an area we all hate. Guess that was one way for him to get out, at least.
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There's that 180 change in personality - my H too went to an apartment in the inner city, and we were just out in the country. Also outside our budget.
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Yes my h did exactly the same. Been desperate to get out of the city since son was born nine years ago. We get out here, and now he lives in almost exactly the same place he desperately wanted to leave. Sheesh you just can't make this $hit up. Totally galling.
new thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8363.0