Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Rollercoasterider on May 22, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
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I need to brainstorm and having a discussion on my present train of thoughts may be helpful.
As I have spent the last couple of years writing my MLC manuscript I have at times tried to come up with different terms for stages or other descriptions sometimes simply that I was not copying. I did not come up with a different term for Replay that I liked. It has the advantage of so many word forms: Replayer, Replaying...De ja vuer just doesn't have the right ring to it!
It took me until recently to come up with alienator; I wanted a gender neutral term that was not an acronym.
But Replay behaviour is associated with high-energy behaviours. LBSs with more depressive or low-ebergy MCLers are often confused; they continuously wonder if it is really MLC because their spouse is not showing many of the typical indicators--or he is not showing them to the same degree or for as long.
Replay is Escape and Avoidance. That is so obvious--and a great name, why hadn't I thought of it earlier?
There are two types or more accurately a continuum of high to low energy. But the higher-energy MLCers are what everyone hears about. But low-energy MLCers are not rare--it could even be a 50/50 split. There is an upcoming series in the Newsletter that reviews types of men at midlife. The series lasts for several issues, but eventually I distill the original types down to 2 which can be described as low energy versus high energy.
Both have Replay behaviours, but it often seems as though the low energy Replayers are milder. Sadly this is not necessarily the case, they are merely different.
Replay is Covert Depression. But what then of the MLCers who exhibit classic or overt depression. Some people have chronic depression issues before and during MLC. I just am finding it unfair to those whose MLCers seem to be milder as Replayers.
I am thinking that the phase Replay--or Escape & Avoid should have two sub descriptions or types--low or high energy and a review of the differences. Sure, you may see a low-energy MLCer exhibiting Replay Bachelor PArty behaviours, but not as mcuh--if at all--as high-energy Replayers.
Thoughts...?
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Rollercoasterider,
I like the idea of having 2 subterms for the Replay stage. I would consider my H on the low energy side of this stage. He is really good and spending time with kids and doing family things like that. And on his non weekends, he hangs out with old friends that are married and mostly pretty mellow. In fact, as far as I know he has only gone to the bar/clubs a couple of times in the last 6 months. So I'm guessing that is what you are talking about as far as low energy?
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RCR
Can you define the difference between high and low energy mlcer? My brain does not seem to be comprehending...
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I think this is important. I believe that my husband is on the low energy side of replay as well which leads me to question at times whether it's MLC. I see so many of the symptoms of MLC yet he spends time with his children, does work around the house reports to me (which is more him reporting to himself I believe because I never ask where he's going, who's he with and how long he'll be gone).
With that being said my husband "lives through his mind and can mistake fantasy for reality". It has been this way on a certain level for years but it has become particularly pronounced during MLC. I can hear him glorify the high energy replay behaviors and he has tried some of it out. Going to bars, getting really drunk, interest in cage fighting and such, sadness over never having a close knit group (gang) of guy friends, chewing tobacco. When he does do these things for a short time I can tell they are not working for him and so he'll cycle in and out of phases. He still is clinging to the OW fantasy although I don't specifically know the extent. I have gut feelings that there may be secret phone calls, meet ups and some stuff going on at work. Yet I have know proof of anything just my intuition.
Although his behavior isn't as extreme as others that I have read his passiveness keeps him stuck. I also believe his passiveness resulted in his attraction to a risky "OW" situation. I have joked with him, during his more clear moment,
"couldn't you have picked the single, rich woman with vacation home in Italy? Wouldn't that have worked or made more sense?". Of course, one year later I know there is very little sense in their actions.
Anyway I think this is an important consideration for replay behavior because I know what it's like to live with the "replaying alien" who doesn't act out publicly or to the extreme that is characteristic.
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Can you define the difference between high and low energy mlcer? My brain does not seem to be comprehending...
Rather than MLCer, it is more a general term for a personality attribute--like Myers-Briggs typing.
Depression and Anger are flips of one another. Depression is Anger turned inward and Anger is Depression turned outward. Something that is a Depressant decreases activity, whereas a stimulant increases activity. Low-energy refers to someone whose natural reactive pattern is depressive and high-energy refers to someone whose natural reactive pattern is higher-energy.
Typical Replay is covert depression, this is also called masked depression because it is active and energetic and we think of being depressed as low energy.
I've noticed the high and low-energy differences and pointed them outt o LBSs for some time now. But it was only since February that I began thinking about it more in depth when I began my series on types of men at midlife. It's a long and complex series and it took me quite some time to figure out how to esplain it understandably. Hopefully I have done it. The introduction article is in next week's newsletter.
But it was reading here that made me think that I should take my ideas back to the stages and redefine--or rather re-explain it there.
It is also not either/or. Think of a spectrum say of white to balck where you cannot tell the difference between two pixels next to each other, but each pixel on the horizontal axis is slightly darker or lighter than the adjacent pixels. Someone may be extremely low-energy and another may be in the middle where he is neither one nor the other completely, but balanced and another may be just a bit more high than low.
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THANK YOU for clarifying replay! I feel like we're going to be stuck in "replay" for eternity! But escape and avoidance makes SO much more sense. It doesn't sound so...never-ending. Repetetive.
I don't necessarily understand covert depression or mild energy. Mine is definitely a HIGH, HIGH energy! Always has been. He has to stay busy and distracted all the time. Now he has a pregnancy, can drink lots, ignores job responsibilities, is back and forth between two states as he divides his time with OW/my kids... He is definitely not mild in that he has the resources to be ABLE to escape and avoid. Before this weekend, his two worlds haven't really collided. We'll see. Either way, I absolutely feel better hearing about escape and avoidance. Thanks!!
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RCR
I think you gave a good explanation of the two different types of replay. However IMHO you should just stick with the one term "Replay". I understand that it is confusing for newbies, but all of MLC is confusing not just these terms. MOre terms I believe also make it MORE confusing.
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I'm kinda with OP here, although it did occur to me that there could be several stages of replay. I.e. when one thing doesn't 'fix' the problem, turn to something else.
Replay is a good term because it really does get across the idea that they are trying to re-live parts of their lives that they felt they didn't get to. Escape and avoidance is true, but, at least certainly in the case of my H, they are actively DOING lots of things. My H said that he wasn't running from something, he was running towards something (this was right at bomb drop). So to us they are escaping and avoiding, to them they are doing everything that they felt they had denied themselves.
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I'm one who's H is low energy. He doesn't seem to show the symptoms of MLC at all for weeks on end. It's not until I prod him, and sometimes I feel like prodding (poking the tiger) just to see the anger well up again, because it makes me feel better. I feel better when I know that he is angry and he is depressed, not because I want him to feel those things, but because it gives me a guidepost.
Some days he's so mellow and just seems like he's moving on with his life that I wonder if I imagined it all.
And his anger and spewing and blaming were all so short lived, it's like they never even happened.
For me, it was helpful to get a private message from you, RCR, telling me that he's still showing MLC behaviors b/c I was really thinking I was losing my mind for a while there.
In any case... have you thought of having a non-scientific poll on the subject?
You could ask people a series of questions, limit to short answers, and compile results. That should give you a pretty good guesstimate of the split, as well as maybe uncover a pattern or perhaps even a new cluster of behaviors you hadn't encountered.
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Although this has nothing to do with this thread other than it is written by the author of this thread and our board. I have been doing some rummaging around on another board and found this post from 4/23/05
Hopefully the author will not be mad at me for reproducing it here on her forum but I thought that it might be educational for some of the newer people to see how far she has come and how long a process this really is.
I've just read through this entire thread. I wanted to offer my encouragement. Hang in there. I know it's tough. My situation only began 5 weeks ago, so I've had it so much easier than most others on this board--fortunately I found the books and website right away.
I think it's okay to discuss the relationship when he brings it up--but let him direct the discussion and when he wants to stop talking, stop. My husband is doing a lot of relationship talk.
Others: Please tell me if I'm wrong in this--whether it's okay to discuss the relationship when he initiates.
Stay strong. You're very fortunate to still be in the same house and that he still cuddles and gives goodbye kisses.
The other woman is the biggest fear right now. I couldn't stop thinking about my husband's crush--was driving me crazy. It seems as though he'd bounce back without the other woman doesn't it? I don't have advice for getting through other than STAY STRONG. And that can be one of the most diffuclt things to do.
Okay, so you may not really be strong, but you need to appear strong to him. DONT instigate relationship talk, NO crying, NO I love yous. And this one is hard, but the feelings about him where he's got it backwards because he won't do anything with you because he is with her--try to understand it and maybe look at the positive side.
My husband said the same thing--once he started something with the crush [fortunately she turned him down since he's married] he would have to stop intimacy with me. It's about monogamy. Many of the guys having affairs aren't trying to be faithful to any of the woman. At least ours respect monogamy. I understand, it may be hard to look at it that way, but it has helped me a lot.
Here's what has made it easier for me. Think of MLC as a disease. We don't blame schizophrenics for their behaviour, maybe we can also remove blame and begin understanding for the MLC phase.
My Dad winces when I tell him that my husband said he is interested in dating others, doesn't love me, is still moving out even though the realtionship is improving. I asked him to understand it as a disease and thus my husband is not in control of his actions, and look at the positive side of things. In my case, my husband needs some space, and I can do some interior decorating that would be impossible with him here. [But the moving still distresses me.]
I've also attempted to educate my circle of support. Ask them to think of it as a disease and help me stay strong. MY Dad, though he winces, is better than anyone at this. He knows that on bad days I need him to listen and just tell me to stick it out.
It seems to me that if you stay strong and hang in there, you're going to bust this thing. He clearly still loves you--the cuddling and goodbye kisses, and apologies after insensitivities show this.
Good Luck,
K-R
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This one is from a little later but has a synopsis of her story from the start: Dated 9/5/06
Bomb Drop & Dark Phase
Well I started writing this…then decided to save in Word since I knew it would take time. Word Crashed—in the act of saving—and I lost it…but only 15 minutes of writing…which was only a page or so. But AAARGH!
First my story may be encouraging to some and discouraging to others…or encouraging one month and discouraging the next. When you first came to the boards Sweetheart was home. He’s now gone again—he’s come and gone multiple times.
16 March 2005 Sort of Bomb Drop: Said he didn’t want kids
20 March 2005 Bomb Drop: Said he didn’t want kids and wanted a divorce. The earlier statement had been said so I would be the bad guy and leave him to find someone who wanted children.
A friend offered to rent him her condo starting the first weekend in May…so that was planned in the first few weeks...it gave me a few weeks and then I KNEW he’d be moving because he promised her three months rent and wouldn’t back out on her.
I first read books about pregnancy after 35—since he talked about the issue being he no longer wanted kids. The next week I moved on to relationship books. Most weren’t helpful because they were geared toward working on things before there are problems. Then I found Divorce Remedy. It was Tuesday 12 April I was riding the bus to work—an hour long trip before transferring. Sweetheart had mentioned MLC, so I skipped straight to that chapter. In the 15 minutes it took me to read it, I knew there was hope—it was like everything turned around for me. I then checked out MLC books and began reading those.
I didn’t know about the OW at first…he told me one Saturday after returning from the Gym…and feeding me the leftover Chinese Take out he’d shared with her. I fell off my chair—literally collapsed to the floor. It wasn’t physical yet. He said she was a client at the gym…lie; she was a CAN at his other job. He told me the truth a few weeks later when she was fired.
He was so love struck…When she was fired he was afraid he’d never see her again. He kept confiding in me that he wasn’t sure if she was interested in him…while to me it was obvious that she was the main pursuer—I believe she’d been after him for a few years.
MLC told me that I wasn’t a wife in a bad marriage or even having marital problems…it told me I was a wife with a sick spouse, but I truly became a believer by witnessing Sweetheart’s actions. One day he asked me to mow the lawn. I didn’t do it right away. It was cold out and he had a cold. I heard the mower going. When I looked outside there was Sweetheart in slippers and SHORTS mowing the lawn. He was irrational. HE kept saying he was afraid I was going to harm him. He would say he shouldn’t sleep in our room…but always did…slept right next to me just as always. He’d rant for awhile and a few minutes later I’d find him curled up in bed or on the couch…blankies tucked up to his chin…baby talk…saying he was tired or something.
One day—I think it was the week before he moved out [and a day before his Dad had a heart attack!] he told me he’d sing EVERYTHING over to me if I just singed divorce papers…he was pretty out of it that night. The next day, when I told him what he said I suddenly became vindictive and money hungry. He mowed the lawn and afterwards admitted to feeling calmer. On Thursday & Friday he had to sleep at his Mom’s because his Dad had the heart attack—she’s on special medication and needs to be watched. He was so smug when he said he wouldn’t be spending his last two night’s home at home—said that before telling me why. He told me “I’m so glad [I was acting some horrible way] because I cam hate you now.” My Dad was on the phone to hear some of the two hour scream fest—all coming from Sweetheart. He was packing. I called that phase Monster. I am VERY lucky…Monster was AWFUL, but I had a VERY BAD Monster for only 3 days—Tues-Thur. He went to his parents a mile away. He called when he got there---5 minutes later—“I miss you now. His irrationality was overwhelming obvious…Anyone witnessing it could tell that this person was sick, not bad. But of course, I was the only witness—though my Dad got it through the phone and was amazed at how I handled it. It was one of these days—Tuesday I think, that I went to my first hypnotherapy session.
Note that during this time our sex life was AMAZINGLY BETTER—I was trying to keep it going for the connection. I finally had the sex I’d dreamed of! Sweetheart has always been so repressed…sex is a huge guilt trip for him—Catholic.
I had a conference that Saturday. He was supposed to be in his apartment that night. Coming home I knew he would be there…it was one of my first recognizable intuitive ‘hits.’ At the dinner after the conference I had what gave the appearance of a panic attack—I’ve since learned that when that feeling comes on and it’s not really panic it’s a ‘hit’ and something is going on…this one told me that I was supposed to be at home—meaning he was home. He didn’t stay at his apartment until Monday night. We continued to see each other occasionally and had sex. He called EVERY night at bedtime. I knew this would change when the OW relationship went physical. There were a few more hits…during this time always meaning he would be home when I got there or he’d come over…always right.
That was important to me…the intuition. One of my first PLANS was to build a spiritual/psychic connection—the kind married couples are supposed to have—at least in those perfect world dreams. On May 19 I had my KNOWING. I’ve talked about it before. It was in Yoga class. It was a physical feeling that washed over my entire body—I’ve since had small reminder knowings—it was a reassurance that things will be fine and that I was on the right track. It was the beginning of class when we were warming up in Half Lotus. I leaned over with tears and [quietly to not disturb] said Thanks God over and over. I knew then that Sweetheart and I would eventual work things out and be together in the end…I mean I KNEW. This KNOWING feeling became stronger—I was amazed at the feeling when it happened…but the immensity and importance of it became even clearer with time.
On Friday 20 May Sweetheart asked me to stay over—with Te’Amo—and go biking in the morning. I did, great sex night and morning. I deliberately left a pair of sexy underwear just hidden behind the water bed! Awful bike outing. He complained about me being slow—we went with some friends who said I did great…I biked UP to the top of the pass on the FREEWAY for some of it…It was my first time and it ain’t easy. He kept smugly telling me about having children with the OW. I’d already sensed that morning that we wouldn’t be having sex anymore.
The next day he took e to get my belly-button pierced and then went to spend the evening on a friend’s boat [his and OW’s friend] with the OW. Oh yeah. I began a diet in July 2004 and had lost about 25 pounds at bomb drop, was just starting to lose again after a Holiday slump. It was about two weeks or some after Bomb Drop the losing really began…and I lost 30 pounds in 6 weeks. My family hadn’t seen me. I saw them at Easter—1 week post bomb, and then the week after Sweetheart moved out. The difference was DRASTIC. Well Sweetheart’s relationship with the OW went physical the next Saturday. I was home for the weekend…during Church I got a ‘hit’ that said I had to leave NOW. I drove 100 miles and almost missed Sweetheart by 30 seconds…I could no longer ignore those hits after that. He was standing outside of the OW’s car and she was in it. I was wearing one of the dresses my Mom had made for my cousin as a bridesmaid in my wedding…that seemed so significant and ironic. He’s stopped by to get some things, almost left, but forgot something. I sauntered over to him, leaned into the car offered my hand to the OW and politely introduced myself. I almost choked when I saw her…OMG was she UGLY! That so made my day! I walked in with him…and laughing said he would have a lot of explaining to do because boy was she UGLY…due to sun worship and nicotine—wrinkles! I almost shuddered when I saw her. It was very obvious to me that they were now ‘together.’ Though he tried to mumble about ‘just friends.’ He was relieved to hear me say she was ugly. I worried was it because that made me bad—saying something negative like that…because I had this strong ‘hit’ that it wasn’t…he needed me to say it because he felt it and wanted a confirmation---so weird. He never really stayed at his apartment again after the relationship went physical. He changed his address the next week—and our friend said he couldn’t put her address at the condo—because she needed it for her official residence for a few more months.
He officially filed for divorce on 9 June. He had tried before moving out but kept changing his mind. On occasions he accused me of being vindictive for getting my own lawyer and then for contesting. One day while filling out paperwork to file he called me and asked for info…my birth, our wedding date…social # etc. I said I wasn’t going to help…it was actually funny…gimme a break. He got so mad…you’re just costing us more money! WAH WAH WAH I didn’t waiver. LBSs often are so afraid of angering their MLCer…and they plant themselves on the doormat. Had I been agreeable to these thins I might very well be divorced today.
So that began the DARK or really GREY period. He would call and leave messages about being worried about the oil in my truck. I emailed him only for necessities…Please get Kitty meds, cancel Kitty Meds…Our precious CatAstrophe who we got our first Valentine’s together died of her heart condition. I called personally for that message. When he visited a few days later—for a few seconds—he first went to CatAstrophe’s grave. He was really upset, but trying not to let on. In person contact was hardly at all for all of June. Then he visited for 91 minutes on 9 July. My counselor said I needed a break around late July and told me to tell Sweetheart not to call for a few weeks. I was just being so attacked psychically from stress. I had a HUGE fall running for the bus one day…fell on my face on the cement with a big backpack weighing me down…freaked out the poor safety lady at work…had to break every hour or so and spend 20 minutes each time icing my head. I also had a chemical spill one day…I had to strip down in the bathroom, wear double lab coats as dresses down the elevator through the parking garage to private showers and shower for 15 or 30 minutes…we couldn’t figure out how to work the hot…so it was ALL cold. I was so lucky to have Yoga clothes in my locker for wearing home! I was just being hit with so many ‘coincidences’ of stress!
I told Sweetheart I needed a break and please not to call me until our anniversary on 15 Aug. On 3 Aug, one day before my birthday he called. I was talking to Lingy for the FIRST time and ignored the call. I then left for a class. He called twice during the class. I talked to my teacher who was aware…he’s calling other counselor says no contact, why is he calling? He left a message asking me to go jetskiing for my birthday—so my teacher asked…well do you want to? Yes…then do it. I called him back and accepted.
Great time jetskiing. On the way home I thought we were talking about his parents not knowing the truth about him and OW---me saying they knew him saying they didn’t. Then he said “How would my parents know I’m thinking of moving home?” Huh? We were clearly not having the same conversation. And that’s when things topped being dark…they’ve NEVER really been dark since. That day I found out a lot more about the OW too—she drinks, stripper daughter in trouble for assaulting customer or something? Great family there.
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Multiple Moving Phase—We’re Still Here A Year Later
Sweetheart officially announced he wanted to come home the next Monday, 8 August, when he came over for dinner. I hadn’t given much attention or hope to his coming home statement since I know they cycle—so I was floored. I knew he wasn’t ready. I had read a book about reconciliation from our neighbour and reread it because it outlined a plan…in which separate living was to continue through the program. I to Sweetheart he wasn’t ready and needed to find a transition house…he was officially out of the apartment at the end of that month. He talked about being afraid of the OW’s wrath and wanted a day she was working—she’d found a job at a local hospital. Oh, yea…he’d been off work due to a bad back—put it out interestingly enough the week he first &*%$ed the OW! KARMA! When he told me about his back, that was actually my confirmation that the relationship had gone physical.
We snuck around to be together for a few weeks while I tried to find somewhere he could live…the neighbour who loaned me the book offered—okay, I asked him. He is 3 blocks away, so not right next door—though he owns next door and now rents it out. It took a few weeks. On 24 August I took a day off work and we snuck him out of the OW’s. That day we swung by the lawyers and stopped the divorce!!! I told him to be appropriate and show her some respect…go break up with her in person. He went to the hospital and met her as she was getting off work. The OW knows that the only reason he did this was because I told him to—she told me this and recognized it as s sign of respect on my part—when we talked in November…after he moved out from her house again.
The OW was two weeks into her cycle—not late. But the next day she announced that at 1am she took a pregnancy test and it was positive! Sweetheart was so freaked. I told him I didn’t care…first I told him I was certain she was faking…for goodness sake it was her fertile time and she hadn’t missed a period, so why take a test! DUH That was A Thursday. I think it was Monday she said she had a Dr. apptment and I said he shouldn’t go…he won’t let me forget that---“I would’ve known for sure.” Whatever…isn’t it odd how the times he did try to go something ALWAYS came up and the appointment got cancelled—really. His friend and our neighbour also said she was faking. She said she’d show him a + test. He went to her house while I looked up how to fake a test online. I didn’t find out soon enough to reassure him before he got there, but talked to him on his way home. She hadn’t taken the test right while he was there—it was old and thus invalid! Some brands may ‘turn +’ after a certain time period. His friend had made a comment about sit her down and watch her pee!
I told him we could raise a baby or he could have custody…but regardless I wasn’t leaving him. He began to believe she was probably faking and realized he’d just have to wait it out a few weeks until she faked a miscarriage—and she did. That was around the time he went back. During the weeks at the neighbours he only slept there—I had NO space! He ate at home, hung out at home while I worked…kissed me goodnight and went to his bedroom—i.e. the neighbour’s house. While there he would talk to the OW. On 20 Sept he said he was going back to the OW’s if I didn’t let him move home. So I did. Now I would say fine…just like I do when he threatens a divorce. I call the bluff…because either way he’ll END at home and I know it. But I hadn’t figure I could do that yet.
He moved to her house anyway—on 24 Sept, the anniversary of our first date. On 26 Sept he emailed me at work that he’d made a mistake—it was still morning and she was already drinking. Oh…and SaturDAY and SunDAY—he spent the days with me and just went to her house at night. He came home on 29 Sept moved out again on 8 Oct—I lost my job the night before, it had been coming. During Oct we still did stuff together all the time---the no-contact rule came at the new year. He moved home 7 November. In the summer I’d painted the living room, and in Oct I pained the bedrooms. Also…when he left in May moved out bedroom upstairs to the cabiny looking loft area that we always loved.
He snuck out from OW’s again…but only left a note. We shut the bedroom door where the phone was and slept in the living room—couldn’t hear phone and he turned off the cell. She called and left a message around 11pm—late since Sweetheart had to go to work at 3 am. She said she was driving to our house and if he didn’t want a scene he’d damn well better come out and talk to her…said she was going to sleep in her car in front of the house—she wasn’t there when we got up. She called as he left for work and he had me answer and keep her talking while he went to work—otherwise he was afraid she’d come to Costco and confront him in the parking lot. I talked to her four 4 hours! At first it wasn’t polite. She tried to set me off by saying Oh yeah, well I’m just going to come over to your house and meet him and we’ll have sex on your couch like we did in Sept. Now I don’t know or care whether it’s true. I turned to Sweetheart and calmly said…she said she wants to have sex with you on the couch. That showed her who was boss…she knew she wasn’t going to get a reaction out of me. I got to call her some nasty names. She said that wasn’t nice [later that she deserved it though] I said I know. I’m sorry, but I do pray for you, That turned the conversation around and for goodness sake I ended up counseling the OW for 3.5+ hours! Seriously. It actually felt pretty good. I took the high road.
He was home until 30 December. There were initially rehab issues with the OW’s daughter that he attended and stuff. She had stolen his wedding ring and tried to not give it back. He got it back and had to hide it…this might’ve also bee around the time she had some issue with fluid or something in her head. She said it was serious and was told she would die in 6 months if it wasn’t fixed…and that if he didn’t come back to her she was choosing to not have it fixed! Wow, what a catch, faked a pregnancy and indirect suicide threat! That infatuation love struck feeling—it didn’t even last through summer…I haven’t seen that since the firs weeks before he moved out.
We spent Thanksgiving together. It was perfect! Sex the night after Thanksgiving! We usually go to his parents or to Gram’s—my family. I cooked my first entire Thanksgiving dinner—bought the pie though! It was so wonderful. That was a ‘hit’ I’d had since July…we would be together at home for Thanksgiving…and that we wouldn’t be together at Christmas. He was living at home, so I didn’t understand that one. Well he’d been low around Christmas. I knew he wasn’t supposed to go to Gram’s---the ‘hit.’ So I finally told myself to stop insisting. We went to Christmas morning services and I then went to Gram’s alone. When I got home that night he told me he was thinking of leaving again.
So that week was bad, he told me he didn’t really want to leave, but wanted to be able to date the OW! On Wednesday she texted that she had to go to the emergency room and he was to take her—she lives 20 minutes away. 911 is a pretty easy number to dial! Oh, and her issue was real—she ended up having a hysterectomy two months later. Sweetheart got the text 30 minutes after she sent it. Then he ‘played’ with he texting back and forth for 60 minutes while we sat watching evening TV. I told him he could only do it if I came…otherwise he could go, but the door would be locked—he could return in the morning. To me coming…you can imagine her polite reply! He finally went and took her to the emergency room. KARMA—problems in the female area…not clean! I’m not saying others that have problems aren’t clean…but the combo adds up for her. She’s done all this before.
He moves out again 30 Dec. I say no-contact. Lots of text messages from him—I’m thinking of you all the time. I ‘m thinking of you every five minutes. I’m watching M.A.S.H—we like watching M.A.S.H. together. I have not had to pursue at all through this entire thing! He came home the third week of January—for about a week. This was to test me and push buttons. We went to Leavenworth—a Bavarian Themed tourist town where we got married for the weekend. Great sex—once. We skied…fun. But he kept texting the OW—like when he was in the outhouse and stuff. He was in the bathroom in the Motel room and I think he may have been texting while on the pot. I pushed on the door and told him t get off or something. I think I’d seen the texts while he showered too—yeah, that was what started it—though I didn’t tell him. Oh poor baby was so pissed. We watched TV. He ‘caught’ me giving energy [Reiki] to him. I sneak sometimes and I just had my arm around him and was beaming Reiki at his head. It was really rather hilarious. Tense drive home the next morning…he left for OW---okay I told him to---I didn’t kick him out. I told him he could choose to contact her, but he wasn’t going to live at home then. I had finally gotten to the point [a few weeks before] where I could even call a divorce bluff. He got all mad when visiting one day and said he was going to go file RIGHT NOW. And I said go right ahead…and I meant it. And I told him I’d still contest too. When he saw I meant it he backed off.
So he’s back at the OW’s On January 27. No contact rule in effect. He takes more stuff this time…to show OW he’s really moving in with her. 5 March he says he’ll move home in the morning. But the morning is the day she’s scheduled for her hysterectomy…he can’t do it. Well, I do get it. He moves home 29 March. I had just started a temp job correcting 4th grade test papers—a one month assignment. He was fired from his work in the Fall. Started at Costco in the Holiday season…then standard lay-offs after the holidays. He started back at Costco in late Feb—early morning shift. My unemployment ran out in early March—I think.
Now when he moves home I don’t let him sleep in the bedroom---there’s usually a 3 week transition—because I don’t allow bed-hopping. I didn’t do this during the 1-week January return—oops.
I know when he’s home that he contacts the OW. I’ve talked to my counselor about it. If it's something sneaky like working late…I’m not supposed to say anything. Don’t waste my energy and add fuel to that negative fire. But what to do when he talks openly about her? Still don’t have a solid answer to that one. I try to stop it…but trying and succeeding aren’t always partners. He received a large settlement for hic back injury. We need money, but his back isn’t better and Sweetheart wants a hot tub…that takes a bit more than half the settlement. I knew he was hoping for an instant fix to all his woes…so instead he developed an itch when he began using the hot tub. No one else has had any problem! Psychosomatic. Oh yeah, back around Nov/Dec…he had a drippy Pen!$ problem. Huh Sweetheart, you seem to be finding problems with your Pen!$ a lot…and the Dr. says it’s nothing. Are you afraid you’ve caught something?
We had sex sometime in April—that was the last time…so three times since the OW relationship went physical. He’s gotten a little bit grabby occasionally. Not too much…like this hand would reach up behind and give a squeeze…at his parents house, at a party at his Aunt’s—public things. Quite cool. But he was still afraid of sex with me…afraid of why he didn’t feel that way—and still is now. It’s because of OW and guilt. It would get easier if she weren’t around…but he keeps her around and the wound stays fresh.
The OW got so upset about the hot tub…told Sweetheart it showed a commitment to staying home with me. She told him that I was thinking actions speak louder than words…he began waivering seriously in June again. He asked me if that was true. Well, yeah, but I’m not going to tell him that, then he’ll stop doing the actions—at least while he’s aware he’s doing them. We change his email password because the OW gets mad that he bought me a bikini…I’m his wife and he lives with me…and how did she know? Oh, she saw his email receipt for the order. The OW is telling Sweetheart to keep living at home so he has a better chance of getting the house in a settlement. She demands he file for divorce. For several weeks the very next Monday is ‘apparently’ filing day. Sweetheart keeps asking if I’m afraid…I tell him that you can’t live your life in fear. The words are obviously the OW’s…she has her hand up my Sweetheart’s a$$...man that can’t be comfortable. During this time he is completely depressed. Sleeps or sits on couch for the day—he is off work in late morning, so has entire day to sleep. Yes, he gets up early and a nap is needed…but not all day. I’m taking care of him…go to bed around 8 is with Sweetheart, get up at 2:45 am, fix coffee and do dishes. Make his lunch, smooch goodbye, back to bed etc. Look for work, cook, clean. Not busy with all that…but busy in the way of dealing with Sweetheart. I go on walks to get away from his depression.
So he left again on 7 July…it was building up. Asked aren’t you going to kiss me goodbye as he walked out. Said maybe it would, be only for the weekend if he didn’t file Monday…or maybe only for 30 days blah blah. So No contact. I saw him the next morning---and he’d left LATE the evening before. And then not for a few weeks. I was rather agitated at my level of upkeep regarding no-contact. When I went to my cousin’s wedding---for like 5 days. He knew it was coming, but I went days ahead, didn’t tell him, and took Te’Amo with me. He came by to take her while I was gone and freaked out assuming she’d run away. I’ve now removed the no-contact…in this Depressive phase he needs someone to just be there, and I wasn’t making myself available for that with the no-contact. His needs have changed, thus the rules changed. He may also be cake-eating in doing this with me. That was a reason for the no-contact before, but cake-eating is no longer the primary motivation for him contacting me…it’s more important that I am here for him as a listening ear.
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Follow Up Comments
So he’s come and gone multiple times…when he returns next time it will be 6! What’s encouraging about that? It just shows I’ve let him walk all over me etc.—right. Yes, it shows that to the outside observer who doesn’t see what’s happening inside the walls. I’m a Stander. I believe in the sanctity of marriage and planned to Stand even had I not had my KNOWING—though Whew, that certainly has made it easier. I turn EVERYTHING around to make it positive…The most negative things…yup, I just flip them. I’m such a PollyAnna. But I get I love you’s and goodbye kisses too. When he’s not living at home and not planning a return date yet there are sometimes no or fewer I love yous…but goodbye kisses are still there. When he’s returned or in the week while planning he’s thankful that I’m Standing. When he’s home and I cook and clean for him etc he expresses gratitude regularly…he doesn’t take a lot of that for granted.
At night he sleeps next to me. He might lean and snuggle a little…or not. But he’s never a board clinging to the edge of his side—that was only a few times right after bomb drop. And when completely unconscious in sleep…sometimes I wake up because I’m being used a teddy bear—serious squishing.
I was always the career person of the two of us. I earned more and covered benefits. I returned to school for my Master’s and spent my evenings working on my writing career; I write children’s stories—picture books. I’m okay at doing dishes and keeping up kitchen cleaning somewhat…but not living room. He cleaned the living room and I did the kitchen. But when working I was gone for 12-14 hours a day due to my commute. I’d come home and study or write for hours. Sweetheart was neglected…and so were the dishes until maybe the weekend. We’d go camping and I’d haul along a bunch of books and writing journals…and manuscripts I was revising and maybe some I was critiquing for other writers. I’d sit by my favorite tree in the shade and Sweetheart would jetski. So he felt neglected then too—his love language being Quality Time. So all of this wife stuff I do now…cook, clean, make lunches etc. I didn’t really do any of that stuff before. I still write and read…though now it’s about MLC, Depression or the Spiritual Journey…but when Sweetheart is around he has my attention. And you know what? I like doing it! That’s one of the amazing things…before all that stuff was just chores, and now it’s a way of me getting to do something for Sweetheart.
I think the greatest factor in getting through MLC still married [or back together] is the spouses attitude and strength. First, the spouse has to be willing to accept this process without accepting the responsibility for the MLCers behaviour or emotions. Without believing all he negativity spouted…or actions such as he’s with OW therefore he loves her and not me, or even cause he wants to be with her and not with me. Cause that’s just not true. A lot of MLCers have a martyr complex…they feel you’re better than they are and either they are going to save you from them, or they don’t deserve you so they’re going to punish themselves by being with someone they deserve.
I’ve also seen a number of spouses stories where they ask the MLCer what eventually led to the OW break-up. The main reason is he got tired of her controlling. Boundaries are important…but that’s part of the tightrope…they can’t become a way of controlling the MLCer. Whether we like it or not our spouses are on this journey and we can do NOTHING to STOP it…and if we did stop the train…they’d just be stuck in that phase. You also don’t want to pull them out of the tunnel backwards…because they will reenter it later and the crisis could be MUCH worse.
It doesn’t matter what we say or do. We could make all the right changes immediately…it won’t stop the train. We could lose weight or already be the right size…I was a former petite model—doesn’t matter. We could have advanced degrees and be earning am excellent salary…big deal. This crisis isn’t about us. It’s a quest for Self. And yes, they MLCer for some reason that makes no sense takes the quest to the pond scum and looks there. That doesn’t help does it…but unfortunately it’s how this journey works. And we can do NOTHING to prevent it.
What we CAN do is accept it. Learning about MLC and the ‘script’ helped me accept. It told me that Sweetheart yelling he hated me wasn’t really him hating me…and I laughed inside thinking…check mark, that’s on the script—seriously I did that at the time. I knew he would have the OW and that the relationship would go all the way and I couldn’t stop it—it’s on the script. I knew the journey would be long—my KNOWING didn’t give me a timeline and that was the thing that kept me freaking out last June [2005]. SO when he said he wanted to come home after being away from home for only three months—and away from me for two—I knew he wasn’t really ready. That means I was prepared for him to return to the OW. I try not to expect it…I don’t want to manifest that, but I accept it as a possibility and prepare my heart. It can truly be a lot easier if you know this is a likelihood and accept it.
I’ve been lucky in that Sweetheart has oral diarrhea. He just runs at the mouth…and not just to me. He talks about his problems at work—he began spilling after only a week at Costco! He tries to hide things and sneak…but he’s a poor liar, or I’m just aware, and he can’t keep things inside. He spills his guts seeking justification for hi actions or just hoping someone will tell him what to do—so he doesn’t have to decide for himself.
A bit ago he called me from a payphone. He said he was trying to text last night with the excuse [for the OW] that he needed t o ask me when I was leaving and he would need to get Te’Amo for the weekend. The OW said NO…It was up to me to text him about when he could et Te. And he did as she ordered. She’s not there this morning…but he went to a payphone to call me so it won’t show up on her phone or on his cell bill. He doesn’t like it, but can’t find it in himself to take control of himself. Our Costco health insurance starts in October. She’s told him not to cover me. He thinks he may have to fill out the paper work sneakily—yeah, well I don’t need her seeing my private information anyway. But Sweetheart actually thinks some person with no legal or familial relationship, or employment relationship…he thinks she can tell him what to do and he has to obey. He’s now wondering if he should let her notice that he’s filling out health info for me so she can then kick him out. He can’t be the bad guy.
Why would I want this guy? Because he’s Sweetheart. Because I love him. Because I so want to see that crooked smile with dimples that is so rare now. Because I made a promise, took a vow; marriage is a covenant not a contract. Because I truly believe he’s not mentally well and that he will be one day. My core Sweetheart is inside there somewhere. He will one day come out with a stronger foundation—he was never strong, but never this weak either. Because I believe in him. Because I love being with him and we have fun together. Because we have similar dreams…independent of each other we love Leavenworth and want to move there or to Wenatchee—due to jobs being more likely in Wenatchee. Because we balance each other. I’m Fire and Sweetheart is Earth…I can bring excitement and laughter and he can bring calm. Because God told me to Stand…and I realize that is not true in all cases…but I know that I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing.
This journey has shown me that Sweetheart and I are supposed to be together…and I don’t know why, but that is different than meant to be. We’re supposed to be together. I have always loved him, but wondered why…in the beginning I wondered about US—I’m more intellectual whereas Sweetheart doesn’t get that well is an adverb and good is an adjective…I have an annoying habit [okay, had] of correcting anyone who messed those up---correcting out loud but under my breath. Over the years Sweetheart would say the strongest thing…maybe started saying it before we were even married. “I’m so afraid that someday I’ll leave you and you won’t take me back.” Nothing prompted this…not a fight, it was just out of the blue…on several occasions. He wasn’t even aware of it later. I’d always say of course I would…but was thinking huh, what was that all about? Well it’s about a few things…a basic fear of abandonment yes…but also Sweetheart knew or felt something deep down…like we’ve been through this before or he unconsciously and psychically knew it would happen—the leaving part, but not the returning.
But I know that no matter how good I am at Standing, not controlling, applying boundaries without falling off the tightrope onto either the b!tc# or the doormat…The journey gets worse in the beginning. DB’ing sets a foundation for a LATER return. You may or may not see little look backs to your perfect DB’ing…so don’t worry if you don’t see them, not everyone does. And if you do, what a great clue…but temper that excitement…it’s still going to get worse; your MLCer will continue to retreat, get OW/OM, possibly file for divorce etc. It just doesn’t matter. So don’t let the retreat, his going Dark on you, the OW/OM etc…don’t let those things tell you he really wants out, doesn’t love you, hates you, you’re ugly, you’re the problem. Don’t let his happy-mask fool you. MLC is a Depression. The cycling mood swings, affair, hostility, demonization…almost ALL of you ask if it’s really the Depression or did you just get one of the bad guys…YES IT’S THE DEPRESSION.
In the Depression books I’m reading it they talk about Covert Depression and often infidelity/affair is briefly mentioned…maybe in a list of symptoms or on a questionnaire. But that’s about it. They don’t talk about it anymore. And some books don’t even bring it up. They describe scenarios or cases…a wife was worried about her husband’s changes in behaviour. She suspected maybe he was having an affair…but WHEW later learned, No not an affair, it was Depression—as though if it had been an affair it would cancel the possibility of it being due to Depression. We are the left behind…we are dealing with depressed spouses, but we don’t get to be part of that club. Oh, an affair; he’s just bad.
Sorry for no closing comments. This is where I left off when I had to meet Sweetheart—and now I’ve gotta rest.
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Wow!
You've been reading Toncatt's threads--I recall posting that three part history at his request.
It's fine that you post these...and that early one...wow that must've been hard to find! It was obviously before I had information about the affair and did not know what to do about relationship talks. Though I will admit that a talk initiated by an MLCer can happen and you may continue it. But let the MLCer lead and if it feels better or the talk is going south, end it ASAP.
What was so interesting reading those is that I see the foundations I am now using in my articles and coaching.
I actually saved all of those threads and posts. I have a document that I created of my posts on other threads and refer to it when I know I talked about something that I want to expand on for an article. The document from the first few years is 1000 single spaced pages and that doesn't include my own threads!
And I've been writing a post for readytofixmyselffirst and was writing some of the same things as are mentioned in those posts--and was rethinking about some of the same incidents--falling on my face and the chemical spill.
And now Sweetheart is out mowing the lawn, but not depressed in shorts during the rain. We've come a long way.
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OK - editors note. These are from your first thread that I found. Titled - Shades of Indigo. I did correct one typo, the date of BD said 2006 but in a later post you said it was 2005, so I made the correction for you. LOL.
Glad you enjoyed them.
So am I.
I am working on reading your entire thread, somehow I think some posts may have been deleted but I have a ways to go.
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Were they? Maybe I put them there at Toncatt's request. That was probably it since they were so long--I mean I had to split them into three!
Yes, 2006 as Bomb would have been a typo.
Sweethearts OW did not work professionally as a CAN either--that typo always bothered me. I mean really, was she tin or aluminium.
She was a CNA at the retirement home they worked at in the first weeks--she was soon fired. She later worked at a hospital.
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My MLCer is in Replay and she is more the low energy type. I like the term Replay, because it acurately decribes what my (ex) wife wants....a Replay. Here are a few things she said or did over the last 6+ months....
Bomb drop was that she wanted a divorce. Her terminology included that we were "growing apart" and she "always had doubts". She said she wanted a "new life". Yet, she had NEVER said either of those things at any time in the previous 17 years. She also said she wanted to "date other people". I was completely caught off guard and did not know what to do. I initiated relationship talks, which usually resulted in anger from her. I did not understand at the time that she did not understand these unusual feelings she was having.
We separated a few weeks later. At that time, she really started spewing anger at me. She blamed me for how she felt. Said I was the cause of the divorce. After we separated, she spent hours and hours on facebook and watching movies.
She filed for divorce, but waffled for a couple of months whether it was what she wanted to do or not. I made it VERY clear that divorce was not what I wanted. We did see a marriage counselor during that time, and it did NO good. In fact, I believe it put more pressure on her. The counselor kept talking about "having to make a decision" regarding divorce. As we know, and as I learned, typically when you pressure an MLCer, they will run.....and divorce is a form of "running away".
My MLCer did not have an affair (at least not physical), did not start drinking, did not do drugs, and did not spend extravagantly. She did file and follow through with divorce (yes, I am still Standing). She has expressed a desire for a new, intimate relationship with someone else. She has expressed desires to run away in several different forms (travel, moving, and job change), but so far the divorce is the biggest thing she has "actively" done.
I guess my point is that the most common trait I see in MLC is the desire to run away or escape. Whether in the same house, separated, or divorced, the MLCer "abandons" the spouse (who they justify as "the cause") and does the running behaviors.
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We did see a marriage counselor during that time, and it did NO good. In fact, I believe it put more pressure on her. The counselor kept talking about "having to make a decision" regarding divorce. As we know, and as I learned, typically when you pressure an MLCer, they will run.....and divorce is a form of "running away".
This is one thing that I still can not get my head around. That is why these counselors, who are supposedly knowledgeable, do what you are describing. Mine did the same thing.
PHD's in counseling and marriage and they don't know anything about MLC. I don't get it.
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RCR can't you just talk to the author who originated the term replay and ask for permission to use it? Maybe I don't understand where it came from, or am being naive, but I'd investigate that avenue. I agree that if you are reading MLC books and boards and replay is used frequently, using another term - no matter how elegant and eloquent - will be confusing for someone trying to make sense of the mess they're in.
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Old Pilot
I told my IC about what happened in our marriage counseling sessions. He said he was disappointed that the marriage counselor kept reminding my wife that she had a decision to make. My IC is the one who originally told me that he thought my wife was experiencing MLC. At the end of my first meeting with him, he told me 3 things NOT to do. He said do not mention MLC, do not pressure her, and do not get defensive with her.
Marked & Healed
I think the term "Replay" is from Jim Conway. I do not know if he got it from somewhere else.
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Well at least your IC knew what he was talking about.
Conway got the term(replay) from someone else but I don't remember where.
I would need to look in the book again and I don't have it.
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RCR can't you just talk to the author who originated the term replay and ask for permission to use it?
I don't think I need permission to use it and I have no probelm using it, but it is nice to have your own terms sometimes. I felt I needed to change Conways' terms for the other stages because they are emotions and behaviours that are not limited to those stages and thus can be confusing.
I think the term "Replay" is from Jim Conway. I do not know if he got it from somewhere else.
Conway got the term(replay) from someone else but I don't remember where.
Conway uses Elisabeth Kubler Ross's stages of grief and changed the term Bargaining to Replay and added Withdrawal because MLCers were not dying. I believe Replay was his term.
I have always like the term Replay, but will consider saying Replay: Escape & Avoidance as a header or section title and then expand upon the low vs. high energy, but maintain the term Replay as the universal label.
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RCR,
I did finish reading most of your threads. Not every single post though.
As far as I can figure out you had three main threads.
Shadows in Indigo 9/1/06-10/7/06
Standing for Sweetheart 10/11/06-12/09/06
Suggestion Box 3/4/08
After reading Standing for sweetheart I understand more of what was going on in Suggestion Box.
I think some of these mentors owe you an apology. But that is JMHO.
I was trying to find some of your reconcilliation parts but that either is not there or is going to take a lot more work on my part to find.
I think at the end of standing for sweetheart, he has left and come back 6 times.
You were giving him a 6 month timetable before he could move back again.
In any event thanks for letting me post that stuff here, it is all very educational.
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Well, as you can tell from the discord on the suggestion box thread, things were not going so well on the board by then.
Most posters liked me well enough, but the company...they aren't fans! I actually had about 15 threads of for my own story--suggestion box was exactly what it says and thus not for my story. The forum deleted my personal threads--fortunately I saved them--except the last one which had little on it. My posts can be found in those few story threads, but many more are on threads where I posted to others.
I had a thread of my own where I posted infrequently form July 2007 but I tried to refrain from discussing my situation in any detail anymore. As you've seen from the threads, there was one particular poster who was an antagonist and I stopped discussing my situation due to that poster. I was also wary about posting that I was in reconciliation since I knew that Sweetheart's being home did not mean he was through and that we were thus at that stage...and he did leave two more times after that.
After Standing for Sweetheart I started a thread that I closed within a month because I then let Sweetheart come home. And at that time it was the right decision. I had one of the most profound and powerful Knowings that lasted a few days--it was a feeling of such bliss. Many will think letting him move home was the wrong decision since it turned out he continued to see the alienator and I kicked him out about 14 months later. But it was. We still progressed forward together during that time and I was able to Pave the Way.
As for menots owing me an apology...just hearing it from someone feels validating--thank you. No one knew it back then, but I discussed starting that thread with the forum organization first. It was my idea but I was not going to do it without approval. The complainers on the thread had no idea that the organization had unofficially given approval--through a phone call. I am certain that person would deny it today since it was she who betrayed me within a few weeks. Oh well.
I was not doing what they accused me of doing...but I am now! I've got this forum and the website, but those did not exist in any form until after I left the board. The website content was mere notes within my threads that I later revised and expanded.
As for the 6 month timetable...it was 6 months to the day! So I stuck to it, but it was the Knowing that let me know it was okay to let him come home.
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RCR,
Do you have any policies for your site regarding cross referencing posts or posters of other forums? Would you prefer names not to mentioned etc? It would just make it easier if we all understood your views on this, especially as some of us post on other forums from time to time.
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SR
Now your asking really tough questions.......
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I know!
I think every body would like to do the right thing, but just understanding what that might be kinda helps....
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RCR,
Do you have any policies for your site regarding cross referencing posts or posters of other forums? Would you prefer names not to mentioned etc? It would just make it easier if we all understood your views on this, especially as some of us post on other forums from time to time.
I haveno official policy regarding external links. I want the people here to have access to any beneficial resource.
But while the site is still in its infancy I do not think that links referencing threads on other boards are the best idea...yet.
As for pasting, I don't think there is anything against it, but consider whether you are pasting something that is another person's personal property--copyrighted material--and whether you should ask permission or not. For instance, I contacted HeartsBlessing and asked her for permission to use her version of the Six Stages of MLC on this site.
Those were postings on another forum and not on a website of her own creation or a site where she was a contributing writer with the idea that it was copyrighted material, but I too wrote on that forum and it was where I started writing what later became more formal articles...so be careful and consider whether you should contact an author or poster first.
As for names...usernames should be fine since they are what posters use on those forums. My links page does provide links to a few of the other forums. And yes, one is missing. That is in part because of their policy against external links.
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Thanks for the clarification !
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RCR,
Since this seems to be your thread now.
I asked a question on another thread but maybe you didn't see it.
At the beginning of this thread you have replay split into two groups high energy/low energy.
Now you also have different types of MLC'ers Boomerang, Vanisher and more than likely others which names escape me right now
(middle aged guy thing I can't remember anything)
Could you briefly give us all the names and I assume they fall under the high energy/low energy types.
AM I safe to assume that statement?
Thanks for all you do.
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Somehow I missed this thread when it was originally posted. Actually, just the other day I asked a similar question about low energy MLC'ers.
My h is definitely a low energy MLC'er, even though he has always been a very high energy person in all other stages of his life. He used to do everything with zest and perfectionism. Now, he is a shell of that person. His "replay" was only about a year (secret drinking, constantly watching cage fighting matches, crude teen humor movies, music blasting from his youth, going out, golfing several times a week, buying new clothes, fixated on improving his body through diet/exercise, changing looks, concerts constantly, looking/test driving sports cars, hanging with a younger crowd, no OW [but expressed a desire to having other relationships]).
He is now completely different than he was during that time period. He is almost lethargic. He does very little to maintain our home....things have gone unrepaired for months/years. These are things that never would have happened. He was a constant fixer on our home. We have rental property that has gone empty for about 10 months because he doesn't have the energy to get some things fixed (though he is off all summer). He plays computer games and soduko by the hours. Doesn't always shave. Never picks up anything around the house. I could see some aspects of his previous self during replay, but now there is very little of what he was.
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Just a few quick thoughts on this thread, perhaps they reflect my own confusion about my H and depression. In many ways he is high energy, affair, moving out, etc. But in one way mentioned he is low energy. He does not show much anger, more contempt I think. Perhaps that is anger? I don't understand/know enough about male depression to recognize it fully in him. Guess that gives me another topic to research/understand. Just some random thoughts here.
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Since this seems to be your thread now.
I asked a question on another thread but maybe you didn't see it.
At the beginning of this thread you have replay split into two groups high energy/low energy.
Now you also have different types of MLC'ers Boomerang, Vanisher and more than likely others which names escape me right now
(middle aged guy thing I can't remember anything)
Could you briefly give us all the names and I assume they fall under the high energy/low energy types.
I talked about High-Energy and Low-Energy to differentiate different manifestations of Replay behaviours. The Boomerang, Off-and-On and Vanisher are not relate but are about how an MLCer keeps contact with the LBS--the frequency fo the contact.
I also have discussed Clinging Boomerang as a type of Boomerang to describe contact that is not merely frequent, but more attached and probably less motaivated to seek a divorce--possibly even insistent that they want their marriage...someday at least. Sweetheart filed for divorce because the OW pressured, but he soon stopped it and was insistent from then on that he did not want a divorce...even though he kept leaving. He was a Clinging Boomerang.
On the energy spectrum he would be more high than low, he does not show severe depression, but sometimes seems to be almost constantly mild when in a depressive state. He also went through Monster, but briefly. Monster then popped up for visits, but was not a permanent Replay fixture like it is with some--Writingmom's MLCer comes to mind. An MLCer who is usually in Monster is high-energy.
For low-energy examples look at Amazing and Andy 57 in the archives. Amazing's MLCer is also a Clinging Boomerang whereas I would say that Andy 57's is a Boomerang, but not clinging even though he lives at home.
It seems that Boomerangs are the most common of the Contact Types; as energy types they run across the entire high-to-low spectrum. But what about the lower contact types: Vanisher and Off-and-On. Are these contact types more likely to be at a certain end of the energy spectrum? I don't know at all...but perhaps that is a good exploration for the Vanishing thread.
It can get confusing thinking of all the different types. Some are probably based on personality type--as I think with high/low energy, but there can be data based on nurture and life expereince. Consider those who had high-levels of success like Jim Conway and felt out of place, like an imposte in a world to which they did not belong...having grown up in a different world...vs...someone who has struggled with little success or at least not had high-level achievement often to the level of power/influence over others. One thinks they don't deserve what they have and the other thinks they will never make it, that they will alwys be a failure.
What about the difference between an ego-inflater and an ego-deflater. The inflater overcompensates for low self-worth and many buy into their facade of confidence; the deflater is a bit more true to their word, wearing their low self-esteem openly for everyone to see. Is the infalter a high-energy Replayer and the Deflater a low-energy Replayer...or are these at least more likely to be that way? Does one trait or type have anything to do with the other?
Typing can get a bit much...blue eyes, left-handed, red-hair, curly-hair...some traits are linked and others have nothing to do with each other.
I think the contact type Boomerang has nothing to do with whether an MLCer is high or low wnergy, but whether that is also true of the less frequent contact types...I don't know yet...
I think that might muddy the issue rather than answer your question!
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It might muddy the water but maybe I can make a suggestion, or maybe it already exists.
I was thinking some kind of overview chart with all the names and then you could link the explanations in with links.
So it would be a place to go if your spouse was a boomerang contact, with high energy. You could click on the links and get the articles already written. Or forget the links you could do that part later.
I am not sure myself because with all the different terms, how it all fits together.
I was just thinking that I might not be the only person somewhat confused.
Does that make any sense?
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I have also had these thoughts OP,
Last night whilst I was doing some reading I thought i would have do a chart to work out where everthing fits.
HUGS
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Rollercoasterider,
I also like the idea of having two subterms for the Replay stage. It will help to differentiated high and low MCLers. You should keep using replay has a general term. It is quite self explanatory in itseft and easy to get.
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My husband is definitely low energy MLCer. I took me some time realize that his "replay" started way before BD, primarily because he did not have any" high energy behavior". He didn't fit the profile that we so commonly hear about!
His reply behavior was started by leaving the marriage in his mind, becoming non-commmunicative, resentful and sometimes vindictive.
I realize now that he was setting himself up to justify his PA. He had already began an EA with a needy MOW. He really had abandoned me and the kids on many levels way back in 2008. Covert depression makes so much sense to me now.
I think it would be helpful to know low energy MLC exists. If our MC wouldn't have been so sure that husband was in MLC, I may have never found this site, done the research and got to the place I'm at today!
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I think my H is a Low Energy MLCer...( I think)
but, would one move out for 6 months?? Thats where I kinda get confused, even though he has never really been
high energy, very little spew. even a week after BD, he was telling me he still loved me and didnt know what he
wanted....hmmmmm
He has always stayed in contact with me, been around family and friends..stayed pretty much connected with our
D after about 3 months. (first 3 months he was a whacko)
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Gallagher ~ My H like yours left me and our S emotionally about 2 years ago. He had acted depressed for 3 years before BD in Feb..
His affair started last summer. I never picked up on anything because he acted depressed, quiet and tired for the last 3 years. But after BD he was full of energy for the first couple of months. I would have thought that being he was having this affair, I really thought he would act happy or different but he didn't. He acted the same as always. I didn't find out about OW until 2 months after BD. Three months after BD I told him I knew everything, that he was having an affair, living with OW since Dec. ect.. Since then he is back to acting normal at least when we see him which isnt often. I think their relationship changed like the articles say, once the affair is made public, the entire dynamics of their relationship change. He still seems to have more energy than prior to BD but it's not like he is on a high anymore if that makes sense. He also used to go to bed early which he doesn't do that anymore either. I guess he is trying to stay up with his OW who is 20 years younger. :'(
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This is an interesting thread and I'm wondering if someone can help classify my H's MLC because he seems to be all over the map and I am confused by his behavior as it doesn't fit in with others on this site.
H is a workaholic, yet he does nothing around the house and hardly does anything or goes anywhere with his S. H doesn't live here but promises to come by and fix things to get the house ready to sell but week after week goes by and he doesn't do anything around here. Also, in the 4.5 months since he has been gone, H rarely sees our S on his days off. He sees his S after work for a few hours when it's convenient for him. Otherwise he makes very little effort to go out of his way for our S. H seems to be high energy and low energy at the same time.
H is a boomerang yet he is not clinging and wants nothing to do with me. He swears he doesn't love me, probably never loved me and will never love me in the future. If anything, it seems that my H hates me. He has denied this but did tell me he dislikes me a few times, only to tell me later that he does like me. Now I don't trust or believe anything he says and I tend to believe he really does dislike me.
H is angry a lot of the time and in and out of Monster Mode to the point that a couple of my friends think he is bi-polar with his mood swings.
I don't think I have seen any other MLCer on this board who is similar to my H with their behavior. I know MLCers are all different in their own way, but with the other MLCers here on this board I see similarities-however there is no one here like my H! Which is why I often feel confused and keep thinking he is not in MLC when I know that he is.
Edited to add that I just read the thread about Off and On and am wondering if my H is really an Off and On type not really a Boomerang because I honestly think he would be a Vanisher if not for our S.
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NB-our stories sound similar I will reach out to you through the messages.
My H went into a deeper depression at BD. Completely withdrew from me and the boys. Like you said, I was so used to seeing him somewhat depressed, it became just the way it was. I found my happiness in my boys, very good girlfriends and community. I filled my cup to overfilling and buried my head in the sand. The depression H went into after BD was different. Deeper, sader.
He started IC and gradually started reconnecting with the boys. I was last, of course. For the past few months he seems to be coming out of depression. Has been working on the house, chopping down trees, painting. Basically making up for the years of sitting behind his laptop in a coma.
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Ladybird,
Your H and my W sound alot alike.
"If anything, it seems that my H hates me. He has denied this but did tell me he dislikes me a few times, only to tell me later that he does like me."
My W told me she didn't hate me, but dislikes 95% about me. The only thing she likes is that I'm a "great dad and she wouldn't want kids by anyone else." I guess if that's 5% it's a good 5%.
My W also makes little effort to see the kids, even though she tells them she wants to see them alot. Nothing keeps her from it, but when she's here she's in and out if I'm here. I invited her to stay longer today as well as to go to my mom's with us, and she gave me a mean look and said "no."
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Thundarr, take it or leave a few details, I think they all look alike.
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...the years of sitting behind his laptop in a coma.
Gallagher,
i so recognise this: you call it a coma, I always refer to it as buried alive
My H did this for years and I did not get alerted. I thought it was all a result of the job (owning a restaurant, obliged to be a lot around people so I thought in his spare time he just wanted some space for himself...) Yeah did I got bombed :-\
i have to add that I think even my H did not know what was going on
little does he know he is boomerang and more high than low energy MLCer ::)
Take care
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I think there are lot of similarities in various cases. My H is definitely a low energy MLC'er. He was at home three years from the start of his MLC. He moved out, but continues to be very low energy through the tunnel. Spends most of his time alone, rarely finishes any projects, major workaholic, and focuses on athletic training.
For the majority of his time at home, he was angry and acted irritated towards me. He still ate dinner at the table with our children and we went to school/church functions together. At home, there was only conversation that I initiated and even then, it was clear he was quite uninterested in anything I had to say. There has been no affection of any kind in years.
Now, however, he seems much less angry, even sounding like his "old self" during many conversations. He doesn't avoid me at every opportunity, though he doesn't seek me out either. Most interaction is through text/email.
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I think it is very important to look at "Replay" as a term. I have an issue with the phrase because it confuses the newbies. You read post after post, why should he or she get all of the fun while I am out doing all the work. Replay is not about happiness, it is about running and escaping. This escaping is either physical, emotional, and or mental.
Also the idea of low energy versus high energy tends to send a message that low energy is easier or a milder form of MLC.
The other realization is that the anger is still there in the low energy MLCer. It is directed inward, but if pushed, the volcano will erupt. That is why I prefer overt and covert depression.
Just some of my thoughts and perspective.
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Replay is not about happiness, it is about running and escaping. This escaping is either physical, emotional, and or mental.
Ready - very good point.