Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Hopeful Romantic on June 06, 2015, 10:20:29 AM
-
Hi all,
As I have been reading everyone's stories here, I've noticed that your spouses, as well as my H, lie lie lie to us all the time. OP even states in his welcome message that believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.
My H lies about big things (I married you for social pressures, followed what society expected of me, I'm on a business trip when he is in fact in town with OW...), but what boggles the mind is that he lies about the little things too...stuff I don't even ask him about. My question is, do they lie to everyone like this, or is it only us? I remember my sister in law telling me right after bomb drop, but before I knew about the OW, that he was lying about everything (he was living with his parents at the time), but I was so out of it, I never asked her to elaborate on the lies.
I'm curious to know if the ow is lied to this much (besides the lies he's told to justify his leaving to her and everyone else), to his friends? Maybe those who have been in this longer than my 5 months can shed some light as to if people have eventually started to notice the sheer amount of lies that are told, or is it only to the LBS, since it has been noted that they often look to us as parents, and they are in the role of the rebellious teenager?
The lying drives me nuts. I notice the less I say to him, the more he talks to fill the silence, and the more lies just spill out of him. He used to be someone who always said it was best to be honest, because lying is too stressful and you have to keep the lies straight. In reflecting however, I realize that he always had the propensity to exaggerate...I used to put it down to him trying to make a story more interesting and funny. I now wonder if it was always a part of who is was...
Thoughts/insight? And do you call them out on the lies, or is there no point (I have not called him out because I feel engaging just gives him something else to blame me for, so I ignore and trust nothing.)
-
Yes, in the days preceding bomb drop my MLCer lied about everything to everyone even teeny tiny things he wasn´t asked about. I was astounded. He would tell people at work he was sick (when he wasn´t), and he would make up elaborately detailed fictitious stories in front of me while speaking to other people on the phone. He would tell me he was going to work or a meeting when he was going to see other women. I found it difficult to understand why he wasn´t at least a little bit embarassed to lie to others right in front of me but he certainly wasn´t. I remember him coming to me in the days after bomb drop to brag that people at his work thought he had a university degree (which he didn´t). He seemed very proud of this (and not at all embarassed) and he boasted to me that he was able to fool others into speaking to him with an honorific before his name. He even went on TV to claim he was a famous author...
In this context I can only imagine what sort of stories he must have told OW. Did he say we were separated? divorced? not sleeping together? No clue. Also no idea what he has told our grown sons although they certainly seem very confused and discouraged.
Now he has passed into a different phase, instead of boasting he is in a secretive phase. It is hard to tell whether he has stopped lieing or not but I hope so...
-
Hi Hopeful,
My H lies about little things too. Even the most insignificant things (i.e. what he ate for lunch)!
My H has always been a liar, or exaggerater, it's part of who he was even pre-MLC. We've been married for 22 years and I have always believed that he has some kind of mental illness.
He's never been treated or officially diagnosed with anything, but through my own research and 18 yrs in the medical field I have come to the conclusion that he either has Bipolar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder. Both share many of the same symptoms (lying being one of them).
I truly believe my H's OW is being lied to as well. I pick up on the little things and although I've never met or spoken to her, I can still tell he has her believing a whole fantasy world.
What really gets me is our friends (who have known him for 20+ yrs) that KNOW he's full of $hit, yet they continue to be sucked in to whatever he's telling them!
I decided a long time ago to stop calling him out on his lies. The truth eventually always comes out, even if I knew it all along.
I also believe that calling them out on the lies just perpetuates the situation. They will tell another lie to cover up the first, and so on. I won't give H the satisfaction of sucking me into it.
I let him remain blissfully ignorant to the fact that I'm onto him, and when the time is right I will eventually drop a clue that I really know the truth.
OP's statement is completely accurate. Believe nothing they say, and only half (if even) of what they do.
Continue detaching and have your popcorn ready. It's going to be one helluva show!
-
Mine lies about everything to everyone!
He even manages to lie about lying ::)
He constantly gets caught but still does it. I have shot several truth darts about the lies but he can't seem to help himself. I do wonder if it is more to do with the fact that they rewrite history, so in their MLC heads they aren't lying as much as they think they are.
-
Thank you for posting this. My H lies all the time about everything so this answers alot of the questions i had
-
HR,
Children lie, and these MLC'ers have the mentality of a child. They reverted back to their childhood when the emotional damage was so severe they were unable to cope with it at that time. When they enter MLC they return to the age they when this damage occurred.
I had a hard time with this one too. I have some information regarding this topic saved on my computer, and I will post it later this afternoon.
Educating yourself is the best thing you can do to preserve your sanity. Remember, this has nothing to do with you, his issues were laying dormant inside of him for years, like a volcano, it's starting to erupt because of the internal emotional pressures inside of him.
Stay strong, be live in you!
-
My H lies all the time. I am nc and he still manages to lie not sure why. He and paramour went on vacation he lied to son saying he went to training. Makes no sense. I don't comment. I'm just handing him the rope he will hang himself.
-
My W lied a lot early on, even when I confronted her about EA when I showed her proof. Sad because she used to be a strong Christian woman and I never would have thought she'd turn to using private messaging services on her phone, creating secret Facebook accounts, and using prepay phones. At this point I assume everything she says is a lie (or at least a partial lie). Keeps me from getting disappointed.
-
Great topic!
Last week, mine lied about the suburb he lives in. :o I'm still a bit confused about why. He also tried to obscufate about why he wanted to back to mediation (he wants to be part wonder of an airplane), but I called him on that one and made him tell the mediator why. And my personal favorite (which may or may not be a lie), that he told his new friends that we are getting a divorce (this was news to me!)
I always thought mine was honest before BD, but lately I've even been questioning that.
I had the random thought the other day that if he does ever come out of this, he's going to have to leave the area to start over because he's probably told so damn many lies.
-
The lying is ridiculous but they all do it. Think that they lie to themselves the most. This is why we are better off just not asking them anything.
My H acts like an 17-18 year old. He would lie and then ell his parents some story to cover and they would buy it :o he thought that he was so smart because he could get away so much.
Now he just keeps everything a secret! I think that is how he keeps from lying more - he doesn't tell anyone anything.
Tsunami - I look forward to your information.
-
Thank you for all the responses! It's fascinating to me that these men (and women) from completely different cultural backgrounds, geographical locations and ages all exhibit such similar behavior. The lying, as I said, drives me completely batty. I suppose the OW and friends and family are faced with lies as well, as some of you have pointed out. I keep reading the OW is usually damaged in some way anyways...must be something she just accepts even when she catches him. And friends and family are too afraid of the reaction to calling him out on his lies? I can only shake my head (any other reaction might lead to me throttling him), and if it involves the kids, write it down in my trusty little notebook.
I caught him once again today when he came to drop off the kids, and life just got a little more inconvenient for him because of his stupid lie. S4 forgot a toy at H's parents place today. H had lied to me the other day, saying he needed to drop the kids off early today because he had to pack for his business trip and had dinner at his parents place this evening (i didn't even ASK why, had just said ok.) Makes NO sense, he obviously wants to spend time with OW over his own kids, but whatever. At drop off, he let me know S forgot his toy, so I told him to bring it back. H says i'm going to be out of town...so I remind him he's supposed to be going to his parents place anyways tonight, bring it back and leave it on the porch (his place is literally a 30 second drive from our house). He looked pissed but said ok...
Let's see if Optimus Prime makes it back home tonite...idiot.
-
They all lie, but some don't tend to be very good liars and we know they are lying. Not that they are going to stop doing it because we know, they may even lie more.
They lie to OW/OM and they even lie to themselves. Some lie in court, even if there are facts in black & white that disprove what the MLCer claims.
There really isn't much point in being upset with their lies, but of course we are. At least early on.
Have you read the articles on the main board and blog? They explain a lot about MLC and MLCers behaviour.
-
Oh heavens! The lies were awful and drove me nuts too. The lying just sickened me since he was such an honest man before this. He hated lies and would call people out for the smallest lie.
Lets see
Lied about OW
Lied about having a grandmother who is an American Indian. Not sure why? ?
Lied about what he did in Russia
Lied about where he lives.
Lied about military service.
Lied about losing his job.
Lied about tons of inconsequential things.
Lied
And lied about me having a BRAIN TUMOR !
Yes that was the reason he tried out for leaving me. He thought that would make what he had done appear like he was right to leave me. Big failure there. Imagine people did not think he was right to leave a woman with a brain tumor.
Yes they lie to the OW constantly. She doesn't notice for a long time since she bought his story originally. She bought into this for the fairy tale he was selling. How can she look for the truth and admit to herself he is lying and the great love affair is based on just so much cow poo?
My ex's OW is just a dumb child from a small town with mental issues as well. She has no life experience either. So the lies seem plausible to her. She believes in fairy tales still. I've read the emails and texts and FB messages to prove that.
So sad and yet so funny looking back now.
Teenagers lie.
-
I forgot to mention that I think early on it is a bad idea to call them on the lies about anything but the very necessary. Doing that just chips away at there fragile persona without any return on the positive. You see they are not ready to face truths. It angers them and only serves to solidify their view that we are mean and horrible people for popping their fantasy bubble.
One of the last big fights my ex and I had was over his lies. I threatened to put up the proof on Facebook that he was lying about my having a brain tumor and him working in factories since he was trying so hard to be John Lennon "working class hero that makes it good in life but still maintains his humble roots."
If it was on FB the ow would be able to see it and know he was lying.
So that was a huge threat to this very fragile persona he was trying on for her. It just might have shattered her storybook version of him. It threatened his very fragile core self. So he became violently angry.
Shortly thereafter he became a vanisher.
-
From MIDLIFE DIMENSIONS.
Why do they lie? (by a former MLCer)
http://www.midlife.com/index.php/chat-room-menu/with-a-little-help-from-my-friends/349-qlighting-the-path-homeq-from-chat-room-friend-qdaq
One of the reasons I married mine because I thought he was SO honest ::) ::) I had been strung along before and felt that he would not ::). He lied about how he purchased a bike for our sons, he lied about buying flowers for OW. he lied to OW1 and work colleagues about our relationship (said we were separated). He's still lying and yet he cannot understand why I don't trust him - although he admits he knows I don't trust him - but does nothing to create trust again. I think he feels it is my issue that I don't trust him and he can't understand why?? He also lied in front of the mediator about shoving me hard and said I shoved him ::) ::) ::).
I'm guessing he's lying to OW3 about his financial situation and anything else to just convince her he's the real deal and to be with him (and fund him)
-
I have reached the point where the lies are amusing. Actually, in my case they were always amusing. A lot of H's lies are lies of omission. Just didn't tell me X, type of thing. Had to hide that he bought a pillow and mattress pad for the spare room bed, most likely because I offered to get him a mattress pad and he insisted he didn't like them (except he has had one for his entire life until I trace back the MLC symptoms in 2012). Had to hide that he bought his "whiskey glass". Has to hide that he is shopping at Costco or Trader Joe's or where ever (like who CARES?)
The rest of his lies are like gaslighting. Says something, then insists he didn't say it. Often says I said it (!). Does something and pretends like he hasn't done it.
For my H, when he lies, I just look at him. You know that look. The one that says "Bull". Then smile, shake my head and go do something else. He knows I know, but he doesn't get to make himself feel better my making me argue with him. I think that's worse than actually calling him on it.
-
This is an awesome thread that really had me thinking.
We know they lie about anything and everything. As a logical, truthful human being, it makes no sense to me that mine would lie about the town he now lives in of where he left his cigarette lighter last Friday (either in his truck or at his house depending on which time be borrowed mine).
The ultimate question is why they do this, and the responses on this thread are leading my to numerous conclusions.
1. They are emotionally immature. Kids and teenagers lie to protect themselves from the consequences of their behavior. That, at least, makes sense when we consider the lies about OW/OM.
1a. Because they believe we are evil incarnate bent on taking away everything they know they deserve, they lie even more to try to ensure we don't do that. Mine honestly had himself convinced that I would do everything in my power to ensure he couldn't become part owner of an airplane. Not the case. In fact, after giving lots of thought to the stupid thing, I want him to have it as long as it doesn't ultimately destroy me financially. They have others chirping in their ears telling them what our motivations are. Others who have never met us or who have no way of knowing what we think or feel. Others who are probably projecting and have an agenda. So, again, it's about self-protection. They lie because they are so weak they are influenced by the agendas of others.
2. They feel entitled to whatever they feel entitled to (see the link from Stillpraying) and will do anything and everything, including lie, to get it and, IMO, avoid the consequences. See #1.
3. They are trying to escape who they are, so they create a new persona, which is at least part a lie itself. They need to be better, stronger, faster than they were before. But that necessitates lies because they seem to believe they are worse, weaker, and slower than they were before. So they lie to make themselves more interesting, etc. Thus Law, 3, and I all have husbands who have embellished their military careers.
4. Lies are among the stepping stones to their self destruction. As frustrating, annoying and infuriating as they can be to us (seriously, lying about what he had for lunch? About your wife having a brain tumor?), they are necessary because all those lies are going to come back and bite them in the a$$. They know the truth (or should--with MLC brain, that's a crapshoot). But they are compelled to destroy themselves, and the lies hell them do that.
4a. In order to self-destruct completely, they must lie in order to push us away, just as they must be cruel to us so they can escape. Like OffRoad, I get of lies of omission. Somewhere deep down, mine seems for me to want to know the truth but is too much of a coward to tell me. He drops hints and clues so I can figure stuff out. When he does that, the guilt oozes from him because the omissions are always about big things such as him living with OW. I believe, at least with mine, a component of this is related to #1a: they believe we are horrible and out to make their life miserable, but like children, they actually do want to confess the truth. They just can't.
I may be entirely wrong about all of this, but it makes a lot of sense to me. For me, its hard to separate out the various strands of why they lie since everything is so interconnected. Ultimately, though, I am believing the lies are a compendium of the need to destroy themselves as well as some convoluted sense of self-preservation.
Now to figure out why someone would need to preserve himself for shopping at Costco. :o Unless that shopping is on a Saturday afternoon. That, at least, I get. ;D
-
Wow, Stillpraying! I can see a lot of my H in that article.
Thanks for posting.
The lying was the hardest thing for me to grasp in all this. Like LP's H, mine hated lying and liars. He was always so brutally honest that I wished he would tell white lies or learn about tact. He was also bad at it b/c he was so uncomfortable with it-just couldn't live with it so it had to come out. Now he mostly lies by omission but I know he lies to his friends, the OWs, and certainly any new friends he makes. OP's statement is indeed true. I do the same as OffRoad-I don't call him on it but he knows I know. Why give him the opportunity to upset my peace and get himself righteously stirred up b/c I am thwarting him in some manner?
-
I had just the opposite of this. Mine didn't lie, he was brutally honest.
I'm not saying he didn't lie to himself, he sure did that, but when I've asked him questions he tells me the truth. Or he would say...you don't want me to really answer that, do you?
I asked him one time about 6 months into this...if he found someone interesting or that he kind of likes, would he ask her out (we were still married at this time)...his answer?
Yes, Thunder I would.
Hurt like hell but no lying. : ((
-
I had just the opposite of this. Mine didn't lie, he was brutally honest.
This was my H for the most - it is his way of putting the guilt on me for him being an a$$hole. Kind of like "I warned you" but you still asked so it is your problem not mine. You can be honest without being brutal!
-
I'm not sure why he was honest.
I remember asking him one time (about 7 months into this) where he was going (he was all dressed up).
He said..I don't want to lie to you, I'm going to a dating service. WE WERE STILL MARRIED!
Of course I was shocked. I started gathering my things to leave and after awhile he said..you seem mad or hurt. :o
I said..no, I'm not mad.
He said..well, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to. ::)
When I look back on how crazy he was during this time it still stuns me.
-
You have to wonder, how on Earth could he not see that going to a dating service would not be hurtful? Are they really looking to see what your reaction is? Or do they really not get it somehow?
-
I'm not sure why he was honest.
I remember asking him one time (about 7 months into this) where he was going (he was all dressed up).
He said..I don't want to lie to you, I'm going to a dating service. WE WERE STILL MARRIED!
Of course I was shocked. I started gathering my things to leave and after awhile he said..you seem mad or hurt. :o
I said..no, I'm not mad.
He said..well, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to. ::)
When I look back on how crazy he was during this time it still stuns me.
2 nights after BD we were out having drinks(I was hoping to loosen his tongue and find out WTF was going on) and my H was all happy, asking me wasn't I EXCITED about us getting to date again! But still felt the need to lie even though he could say stuff like that. Can't make it up.
-
Offroad,
I sure don't have the answer to that one. He, seriously, was surprised I was hurt.
This should be a good lesson for newbies. Their head is so full of themselves don't take anything personal. They have no real idea what they are doing is hurting you.
bi,
See that's what I mean. No clue.. You SHOULD have been excited!!! ::)
-
Offroad,
I sure don't have the answer to that one. He, seriously, was surprised I was hurt.
This should be a good lesson for newbies. Their head is so full of themselves don't take anything personal. They have no real idea what they are doing is hurting you.
bi,
See that's what I mean. No clue.. You SHOULD have been excited!!! ::)
---------------------------
So very true! My H of 20 years couldn't understand why I didn't want to be friends or why I was beyond distressed about his OW, with whom he started cheating and would call her when we were on a family vacation with our daughter and lie to me that he was talking to one of his guy friends "who was having marriage problems" :o My husband used to hate hearing about people who cheated in their marriages..I know they are in MLC and are crazy, but even so called "crazy" people have morals and know that cheating, lying, stealing, slandering, etc etc are WRONG. I don't talk to mine at all anymore..it will be interesting because our D graduates from high school this week and he said he will go, at first he told our D he might not go "because your mom and grandmother are going to be there"..Really, I have raised her alone for 4 years with no help at all from him, and because we're going to be there, he wasn't going?! It just shows you how selfish and guilt ridden they become, an apology never even occurs to many of them. ::) I forgave him long ago, he is so lost, I just feel sorry for him.
-
OffRoad, I think they honestly don't get it. They are so consumed by what they want, they have absolutely no empathy.
My version.
Few ekes after BD, I tried antidepressants. After the second pill, I started having the suicidal thoughts. It terrified me. Called him, he didn't believe but eventually came home. As the drug worked through my system, I became catatonic. He put me to bed and went back to work. Really. I stared at the TV the entire day and part of the evening until he finally came home.
The next morning, I was okay. When that fact was established, he (at my request) hid all the weapons in the house lined up all the camping gear in the garage then went to pay bills. When I went into the garage and saw all the stuff, I burst into tears. I know he was going with OW, but I couldn't quite wrap my head around that he was still going to desert me after what had happened.
I sat on my front porch sobbing. He heard me, came down and asked, in all seriousness (and sounding like a little boy), "What did I do this time?" He really had absolutely no clue how much he was hurting me. All he cared about was seeing OW and escaping the very terrifying reminder of what his behavior could have resulted in.
I also wound up in the psych ward for a couple of days after my mom died suddenly. My BFF was the one who called him to let him know, and she's since told me he clearly didn't give a f*** and that he sounded absolutely clinical.
I don't think when we are in the thick of all their shenanigans, we can clearly see how unbelievably detached from reality they are. It's another similarity between them an us: the only way to survive MLC is to find a way to detach. For us its from them. For them it appears to be from reality.
-
2 nights after BD we were out having drinks(I was hoping to loosen his tongue and find out WTF was going on) and my H was all happy, asking me wasn't I EXCITED about us getting to date again! But still felt the need to lie even though he could say stuff like that. Can't make it up.
I swear, we need a face palm smiley so bad....
-
I swear, we need a face palm smiley so bad....
I agree! ;D ;D
-
Is my MLCer NORMAL?
Had xp around last week sorting out the last of the matrimonial property. We already had most of it sorted so I wasn't sure why we needed to meet in person :o but anyway he wanted to change our Life Insurance Policies (turned up with papers for me to sign) told he I would need to seek advice and I wouldn't be signing anything until that had happened.
Well as you can imagine he started to monster at me - I told him that due to the fact that everything he has said to me over the past 14 months had been a lie then I no longer believed anything he told me.
Is it normal for MLCers to think that LBS's should believe everything that they say even when they have constantly lied since BD?
-
Is it normal for MLCers to think that LBS's should believe everything that they say even when they have constantly lied since BD?
Sadly yes. They make their minds up about how they want things to be, and seem to do and say anything to us to facilitate that happening to suit themselves.
All part of the script :(
-
Your MLCer is absolutely normal.
Is it normal for MLCers to think that LBS's should believe everything that they say even when they have constantly lied since BD?
It is. But we shouldn't believe a thing they say. And should be very careful when it comes to sign documents.
-
Hi :)
Fascinating discussion.
Ever watch the film BIG FISH?
The tall tales of a surreal life a man tells turns his son away from him. In the end they turn out to be more real than the son dreamed. Fantasy or reality or just a difference in perception?
Just in a rambling mood. ;)