Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Rollercoasterider on August 19, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
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I just received a great question by PM, but it is not something for which I have an answer because I have no experience--other than maybe my friend Lingy's and one situation does not a pattern make.
what are you thoughts on how the death of a parent affects someone already in MLC (i.e., parent dying during their crisis)?
Let's generalize that question to any trauma--like those considered MLC triggers and not only the death of a parent.
- Serious financial trouble--even more serious than the dire straits many of you are in simply due to your situations...
- Serious or even terminal illness of MLCer themself
- Accidental injury, death or illness of LBS or other friends and family
- Acts of God: Floods, Tornadoes, Fires...that are personally destructive or that the MLC experiences personally--perhaps barely excaping with their life
- Acts of (possibly random) violence to MLCer or family
- Misc.
My best friend Lingy's MLCer's triggers were multiple familial deaths within less than a year--I think it might have been within 3-4 months. The final death and illness was when his mother and Lingy herself were both hospitalized (I think it was for Lingy's double mastectomy from breast cancer) in the same hospital on different floors and he was running back-and-forth between the floors to be with both. He told her that the two women he loved most were both there and he was only going to get to take one home.
Then their son overdosed at Bomb Drop; the two events were conicidentally simultaneous. Their son disappeared for a few days and Lingy didn't know where he was (he lived at home and was ~22). At the same time her husband just left--I think he left the house and was also gone. She didn't know where either of them were. The hospital had their son and I think he was listed as a John Doe; he had been severely burned--cooking meth I believe, so maybe it was an overdoes and maybe just the fire. He got clean after that and I met him a few years later...nice kid who cared a lot about his Mom.
Breast cancer was not the end of Lingy's medical problems. I think her Bomb Drop was about 18-20 months before we met and at some point after Bomb Drop and before we met she had triple bypass. Her MLCer took care of her like a champ during her recovery, but went right back to his MLC once she was recovered.
He left for about 5 months after Bomb Drop, but returned home after that and was at home for the next several years of his MLC. He left again for the last year before Lingy died. He was at her bedside--I was there with him--while she was in a coma and if you did not know their situation you would not have known there were problems; he was loving and tender as he brished her hair--she never woke up.
I do not think his behaviour was the within normal parameters for an MLCer, but I don't know. I've only talked to others and many MLCers do not pop out of the tunnel to give care or even show such tenderness--even though he typically returned to his MLC once she was better.
I've heard that a trauma can bring them out of the tunnel--just as it sent them in, BUT this is only if they are already headed out and close to the end. I think Snodderly from DB has said that it can instead just send them in further or keep them going in their crisis.
Please tell us your experiences with this so we can see if there is a pattern or if each MLCer is so different that it may be random.
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Hi,
My H's mother died 5 years post BD; H was still deep in his crisis. She had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's the summer after BD, so it was a swift downfall.
It didn't have the effect of pushing him further through, or at least not visibly; during her illness he did turn to me on occasion, once, memorably, saying that he always valued and respected what I thought -- and when I ventured to ask what about my thoughts on our own marriage and family he just said that he didn't have an answer, i.e. shut it down.
I had wondered about the possibility of a death sparking a change, as it was a death that I think tipped him into crisis. His father had died a few years before, and the suicide of a close friend is what I think started it all, even though BD was a few years after that.
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Trauma is relative, though. My H started with his monstering before BD I think because our daughter was growing up and going to leave soon. To H, this would be a major trauma. H cannot stand to be alone. His father cannot stand to be alone. They NEED to have family around them. When H and his brother left home, it was like a betrayal to his father.
At this same time, H's grandmother was on her last legs, but she had Alzheimer's so H's parents didn't tell H how poor her health was. H found out after she died, and no one was allowed to go to her funeral (H's grandfather refused to have anyone around-he had an OW for a few years at that point)
Also during this time, my mother had fallen and broken her arm and had surgery complications, and I was MIA at home for four months.
H had unilaterally decided that D18 was going to go to a college in MA that cost three times as much as I had budgeted. I told him this would cause financial hardship. The first year where D was 3000 miles away and we were living on a third of his income so we could afford to pay for the college was an eye opener that there would be NO money for S16 to go to college. (except what I had previously saved for him)
I think the capper was that H could see his company was having financial problems, but he refused to look for another job (he did eventually lose his job, but that was well after BD) He had emotionally checked out several years previously, so could not get any emotional support from me, as he wouldn't allow it.
As a thought, if an MLCer thinks they are going to lose their spouse to illness, could that be a trigger to leave? (If I leave first, it won't hurt so bad or I'm emotionally checking out because I can't take this.)
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I've heard that a trauma can bring them out of the tunnel--just as it sent them in, BUT this is only if they are already headed out and close to the end. I think Snodderly from DB has said that it can instead just send them in further or keep them going in their crisis.
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I guess it can go either way. It will be interesting to hear more accounts from others.
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I do think that some kind of trauma could be the trigger for them to begin to come out, if they have gone far enough in if that makes sense; my own experience so far is that deaths (for example) before that don't trigger them coming out.
In addition to what I wrote earlier about H's mother, one of his cousins died about 18 months post BD, and a very close friend of ours died suddenly 4 years post BD. I think that perhaps this friend's death may have contributed to pushing him further in; that was when he began the most "serious" OW relationship of his crisis (mine had multiple OWs), but to be honest I hadn't directly connected that before, although I do know he was very affected by that death.
A trusted colleague also died a few years post BD, I'm losing track of when that was.
I know all these deaths affected H greatly, and that seeing his mother so ill also affected him. Actually, there was a point 2.5 years post BD when he cried so much about his mother and came to me that I thought he was coming out of it, I thought perhaps that had triggered something.... but no, he just went deeper in after a long-ish T&G.
So my own experience would lead me to think that this kind of trigger would only "work" if they are already on the path out....
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That makes sense T&L. Wow, you and your MLCer have experienced so many losses during his crisis...
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Bomb drop was early Dec 2014 and H has (according to recent revealations) been in Replay since middle of 2013 and feeling like he was "on the outside looking in" and "having old age breathng down his neck " during 2012.
H found out he had kidney cancer in early June 2014 and had the operation to remove the tumour 3 weeks later. His reaction surprised me. Before "shutting the door on the Parasite aka OW", H was a bit of a hypochondriac, he would be overwhelmed by a boil on his elbow. Not sports injuries, which he took in his stride but anything to do with "disease" would be followed with a freak out.
This time he was much calmer, asked for a second opinion and acted so differently that I remarked on it. All H said was " Yes, I know. Right?" he even said it was " a brush with death" and he was surprised how calm he was.
I know H has other issues to work out but I took it as a step forward. :)
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How could you even guess what an MLCer would consider trauma? If a person is walking around in a narc fog, do they have any empathy? Can they interpret anything as trauma? Like seekingpatience, my exH was a huge hypochondriac and his entire family is wont to dramatize any health issue. He had a heart attack very soon after BD and told me that was just the universe's way of telling him he needed to be with OW... His father had a cancer recurrence, he lost a few family members and our son tried to commit suicide, but all these things were signs that OW was meant to be in his life--because I would never have provided the support she did and surely his life would be 100 times worse with me.
He HAS to believe that, or he couldn't stay, right? He actually said when S17 tried to commit suicide that it was an "academic crisis" and he was so lucky to have OW who, like him is also an Education PhD. They convinced his mental health professionals that I walked away from our son and they have provided all the support he needs to combat his "academic issues." And they bought it, and had the nerve to tell me how lucky I am to have exH and OW... S17 knows better, I can let that slide, but the delusions these people will nurture are not even understandable to the sane.
In my case, I think trauma reinforces his confused thinking and draws him deeper into the strange cocoon of avoidance. As long as he can continue to say in his confused brain and to OW "imagine how horrible life would have been if I had stayed with ll, schmoopie I am so lucky to have you..." He might stay there forever. All his reactions to all the weirdness in his life have confused me, but I don't know THAT man, and I am not sure I ever knew the man I married, so who am I to judge? How is one to KNOW or even guess? Love and light, ll
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Every individual is different, so it's hard to say how a person in MLC will react to tragedy.
Three months to the day after BD, my man's father has passed away. In the first chaotic 24 hours, he's been leaning on me for support. Saying "I love you" in every text while he travels. I stepped up to be there for him in a big way. He's with his family now while I'm back home. His family likes me and was very supportive of our relationship, they've encouraged him to return to me, and they know I've never been anything less than loving towards him, but I expect things to be rough when he gets back.
He's feeling very guilty because he didn't go see his dad before his passing. I suggested we take some of his father's ashes and scatter them in a place of special significance, closer to our home, so he can feel like he's honoring his dad and can get some closure and peace from the act. Even though it's only 3 months after BD and I'm bracing for the worst, I hope we can find some small measures of healing from this.
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My wife's father died a few months ago. She was almost 2 years post-BD and in her 2nd round of Replay. When he died I wondered what the effect would be on her MLC. She went through the grieving process but was quickly back to her Escape and Avoid behavior. If anything, I think the loss of her father has kept her in the tunnel, if not pushed her back in a ways. Most frustrating part...her talking about how important family is while essentially abandoning ours.
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My wife's father died a few months ago.
Ditto - Really not sure what effect it has had since I very little if any contact.
It more than likely will keep her in the tunnel although I think she will permantly live there for the
rest of her life.
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The only trauma my X had was going through a bankruptcy.
I think his was more hormonal. He just looked at himself one day and thought he was getting old.
Started his quest to get younger by trying all kinds of activities (rollerblading, biking, running, etc.), then shaving all his gray hair off and dressed younger.
I actually witnessed him having hot flashes.
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Well, I am watching the death of a parent happen as I type.
MIL died Sunday. Her visitation was last night and the funeral is today.
Because I don't know how this is going to play out, I can only guess. But for whatever its worth, here are my observations and guesses.
Observations:
First, this man is in deep shock. Those of us who have been around an MLCer for awhile are used to shark eyes. What I saw last night were the eyes of a corpse. Twice there was a flicker of life--once when he first saw me and again when I told him that his mom was proud of him and that he was her golden boy. D22 made a similar comment that he is clearly in shock.
Second, he is making decisions based on his needs with utterly no thought of anyone else (stunning, I know) or the potential ramifications of those decisions (another shock). He brought OW to the funeral knowing his wife and two children would be there and that S21 has never met OW. He was forced to say to an old family friend that I am his Ex, knowing we are not only not divorced but haven't even filed. He now has to live with that decision. In true MLC fashion, he has poured lies on top of lies.
Theory:
Although I am guessing, I believe the levels of stress they feel are what eventually tips the scales for them. Unfortunately, we cannot know how they are going to react to the stress. When I say stress, I mean both external and internal factors. Mine will undoubtedly struggle with his mothers death just as he has struggled with his dad's (FIL died when he was 14). He has enormous guilt where his mother is concerned, and because he chose to bring OW to her funeral and is lying about our marital status, he has even more guilt and stress. External factors include that he is the executor of her will, that he seems to be feeling a strong financial pinch that's going to get worse in the next couple of months because we are wending our way towards divorce and I am not going to let him get away so his nonsense, anymore.
So that, in a nutshell, is my sitch.
I believe the timing of the death of a parent is very important as it depends on where they are in the tunnel. My mom died two years ago, 6 months after BD. He ran hard and he ran fast. I've watched him continue to run.
It may be that MILs death will trigger more running. That's what I believe because he has run from death his entire life. But its possible that as he continues his flight and to destroy things and continues to make a mess of his life, he may reach the point where he must look inward. That is in the future: he isn't done wrecking stuff, yet.
He has not reached out to me. He is so deep that he cannot. Or maybe he really is done with me. Who knows.
Ultimately, I do think mine will one day find his way out. As I have posted on my thread, I've believed for a long time that he would never be able to find his way until he is free from MIL. He is not, yet, but she can no longer do the same kind of damage she's done in the past. I see her death as a turning point for him as he begins reaping what he has sown in the last couple of years.
But I don't know. I'm usually wrong when I predict stuff, so just saying I think he will come out of it may have guaranteed he stays in that tunnel forever.
I will continue posting the things I see and can make sense of on this thread as they occur. It's fascinating to me that this topic has arisen right as I am in the thick of it.
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I believe the start with my H was he couldn't handle our D growing up she is our only child and they were extremely close. I noticed he started changing when she got her drivers license and more so when she graduated from high school and was off doing things more with her friends then dad. And also H 's dad suffered a major Heartattack few months before BD
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Interesting topic.
Seven years before former husband began his MLC affair he was fired from his position as president of the company he'd founded 11 years before.
Three years after that (5.5 years before BD) his mother, with whom he had a difficult relationship, died after a protracted illness. In the same month our daughter graduated from high school and four months after that a dear, dear friend (our age) died of leukemia.
Two years later my ex had to have a cardiac stent placed to correct a 99% coronary blockage (the infamous Widowmaker blockage.) Nine months after that he had his "spiritual experience" and four months later he met OW and began his 18 month pre-BD affair (which never ended. She's now his wife.)
From what I consider to be his first MLC "triggering" event--his firing--to BD was 8.5 years.
Three years after BD, his younger brother (at age 58) died very unexpectedly from a heart attack. That was 18 months ago. Didn't move him at all, from what I can tell, through the tunnel.
TMHP
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I trace back the beginning of Mr J's crisis to early Summer 2005 when his paternal grandmother died.
Progressively he become more and more manic as well as depressed. By early 2006, as well as before he left and in May 2007 he was fully aware he was depressed, but accepted no medical help.
By January 2010 his beloved maternal grandmother died and his Replay behaviour intensified. A month later, my kitten that he adored and was at his guard died. That did not contribute to any "lets consider get out of this funk" action.
If Mr J was behaving like crazy until early 2010, by then he had gained the full dead man walking look and, apart from brief moments, has never loose it till this day.
There has also been friends deaths, some younger than us. So far, no shock Mr J has suffered during is crisis has contributed to bring him out of MLC or getting close to exit the tunnel.
It may really only work if the MLCer is already prepared to leave the tunnel. Or the MLC may be about to exit the tunnel, but the shock can make them go back inside.
I think a shock while they are in crisis in more likely to prolong the crisis or, if they were about to come out of Replay, send them back into the tunnel. Must safer and cozy there, with all the Escape & Avoid activities to mask the pain.
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Really interesting discussion.
In October 2012, H and I moved to my mother's home, at H's suggestion, to care for her as she has Alzheimer's. We were enjoying being here at the beach and spent a lot of time tidying up the place. We loved it.
Early in 2013 it became obvious that Mum was going to need more care than we could provide for her and she couldn't remain in her home. H was devastated as he had imagined us caring for her for a few more years. She was moved into temporary care in February 2013.
I had been noticing some strange behaviours from H during this time but didn't realise how much worse was to come.
His dad contracted a form of septicaemia in the April and deteriorated in hospital during that time. H clung to me for dear life. We made the decision to turn off FIL's life support and he passed in June of 2013.
H's sister and brother both spoke at his funeral, but H was unable to so it was left for me to do that on his behalf.
In July his mother had a stroke and was in a rehab facility for some months. I kept asking H if he'd spoken with her and his reply was, "She knows where I am." I couldn't believe it.
My brother had been living with us after the break up of his marriage and in September, having been unable to contact him all day and acting on my gut feeling, we discovered he'd suicided.
H was supportive of me but was extremely depressed and acting very strangely. He drove to the funeral and I had to keep telling him to drive faster as he was only doing 20 or 30 kms/hr in a 100 zone. It was quite dangerous.
At the funeral people were supporting H more than me as he was inconsolable. During the wake we found him sitting in the car with the engine running, head in hands, an absolute blubbering mess.
BD was November 29, 2013. In hindsight I see H's crisis began at least three years prior to all of this, once again after a run of traumas and deaths within the family. There had been a year or two of walking on eggshells and a couple of very strange behaviours on his part.
On BD I asked him why the affair had started and he said, "I had time between finishing work and going to my counselling appointment. I had an hour to kill."
I believe completely that the trauma caused initially by his dad's passing triggered his MLC. As far as I know the affair began very soon after his dad's passing.
Apologies for the long post. :)
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Firstly - Medusa I am sorry for your loss of your MIL. I don't know how close you were or even if you got on - however she was part of your pre BD married life so my condolences.
My parents died long ago and H's dad died way back in the seventies when H was young. He developed a fatalistic belief that he would die the same age as his dad. That date has now passed.
His mum's death was definitely the trigger for BD in 2013 but she had long term Alzheimers since 2003 and ever since she went into a home H began to bury his head in denial. I can chart the denial phases by the purchases and comments he would make. I think even moving house to where we are now in 2003 was a form of denial. He said he wanted to do work on the property but actually did very little.
I think the beginning of the real spiral downwards before his mum's death was the sudden death of two close people we both loved (one in 2007 and one in 2011) and who were not family. Unfortunately we also lost some friends too to various illnesses and conditions in 2011 and attended an unusual amount of funerals. H's attitude and desire to "escape to some island on a boat and become insignificant" really came to the fore in early 2012.
To be honest as far as H is concerned - there has been no "major" trauma for him since BD.
It has instead been my lot to endure less major traumas including the accusations and tribunal I have faced at work, the restructuring and pay of my job, the anger issues with my son, the movement of both my Ds away from home, the loss of one of my own good friends and also the loss of my dog 13 weeks ago. Thank goodness for my T who has helped me because I asked for it.
H has reflected upon these situations too but has just walked away when it became difficult and immersed himself back in replay.
So will another trauma bring H out of the tunnel? Who knows. I am inclined to agree with LL that it is very likely that any trauma during MLC just helps the MLCer vindicate their behaviour and it doesn't push them further into the tunnel - it probably keeps them stuck.
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I think a number of tragedies and trauma has cause mine to have his MLC but about a year before BD XP became obsessed with funerals - still is. Even spent thousands of dollars flying to America for OW fathers funeral - he had never met the man.
He attends every funeral of anyone he has met along with those he hasn't.
His grandfather died at 54, his father at 60. Ever since I have known him he has always said that he would die young.
He lost a good friend when he was 25 - friend was 21. It was a sudden death - he died while playing a game of rugby but it wasn't a rugby injury that caused it.
Not sure what the obsession is all about. Not sure if all the wake attending impacts in anyway to his movements in the tunnel. It will be one of those things I will ask him if and when he manages to clear the fog.
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Piction,
That's funny. My X's mom died of kidney cancer years ago (she was 51 years old) and he talks about how he is probably going to die of skin cancer some day while he constantly sun bathes. He will be 51 next month.
Weird how they think.
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Mine had multiple traumas: military retirement, having a hard time finding a job ( which lead to financial issues ), his father dying, a sister going through MLC, having to move out of/losing the house. Those are the things that I know of. It seemed to all hit almost at once.
I think that now he'll be going through more trauma that will or won't wake him up. Don't have a clue. But, here's what's happening and been happening for the past 3 months and will progress in the next 30 days. These have been in the past 2 months: getting visitation only with our girls, losing the house to auction because of foreclosure, the unpaid back/property taxes, a Pysch Eval, and the Divorce and child support/alimony hearing will be on the same day. Everything is going to be coming to a head by the end of September. I hope he wakes up, don't want the kids to see him fall. But, it looks like this has to happen. At least he'll probably end up in therapy throughout it all. Court ordered.
I know that this will be very traumatic considering that he's been monstering at me the whole time ( even the seducer has been showing himself ). He's a high energy replayer and seems to live in A/E mode. This is going to be the reality check that he's been running from. I feel sorry for him, because it really didn't have to be this way.
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I'm a few days from 2 years since BD. We were divorced in January. FIL recently contacted me to let me know that MIL was diagnosed with stage 4 inoperable pancreatic cancer and has been advised against chemo by 2 different oncology teams; according to them, she will not be getting better and they advised towards helping keep her comfortable towards this ending stage.
I called H after I found out to let him know that I knew and that I'm sorry. He was very open and started telling me everything that was going on with her (nursing care, palliative care team, dietician, his visit to his doctor for a check up, how his dad is doing, how he is coping with it, etc). He also thanked me and said how much he appreciated me calling and that it meant a lot. Probably the longest and most real conversation we've had since BD. I asked him if he needed anything and he said, 'no'. About two weeks later, I sent him a text just to check in saying, 'Just want to see how you are doing?'. No reply. That was about 1 week ago now.
MIL's terminal illness has had a huge effect on me; who knows what effect this will have on him. Time will tell. They were very close (at least before BD I know they were).
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My W come in middle life transition in year 2004, and I was enabler of her narcissistic supply and actually prolong her transformation / crisis whatever it was. So, I manage 4 years until 2008 and she suck the hell of my life energy, so I cannot sustain it anymore. And I start to withdraw from her to protect my self. She then start separation phase and that took what I know until autumn 2011 and she start E&A. She still desperately try to suck me up instead working on self. Replay start in summer 2012. her mother has diag lungs cancer. So, that could be just speed up trigger, not a cause. I strongly believe that she had PA that summer, at end of summer her father has diag of column cancer. Then she were snap and distance even more from me. Her father were cured and survive. No affect on her crisis whatsoever. Instead she start EA with remote guy. BD were in spring 2013. She start another in parallel EA and that become PA in autumn 2013. Her mother dies at end of 2013. her death I believe push her deeper in replay, so she were possessed by devil whole 2014, her words.