Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Love being on higher grounds on January 18, 2011, 05:36:04 AM
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I know this calls for some 2x4's, I am really curious though...
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During his entire affair and up until BD #2 when he indicated he wanted to seperate he initiated sex. I left it up to him and after he disclosed the affair to me a year earlier he only did it at night in bed. I"m assuming this is because of the guilt he felt by the light of day. I continued because it was the only connection I felt to him at the time and it met certain needs of mine too.
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I had a hard time with that. We have only been intimate three times since bomb, and it was after #3 that I began to suspect that the EA became a PA. I haven't opened up any opportunities since then. I am no longer sure H was only at EA before. During our first separation several years ago I know he slept with two other people while we were still intimate on several occasions.
I plan to be tested regardless of h coming home or not. If he came home I would need to see a test result from him too. Afraid of what may already have happened.
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Up until he moved out w/OW and during holidays H has wanted to initiate sex but I have put an end to this as I didn't feel comfortable being the OW to the OW. I'm his W and feel like I would lose my own self-respect. I'm already feeling down and I can't afford to feel even lower. Nor would I put my health at risk any further than it's already been given he's engaging in very risky behavior.
Once when he laid beside me in bed he wanted to go further and I asked if he had a condom first. What an odd feeling to have to ask your H of 20+ years if he has a condom. Never needed it before as he's had a V after S was born. Thank Gaud! He was shocked, but of course he didn't which was my own way of determining if he's truly been safe. If he had been he would always have a condom available. wouldn't he? Something to think about. It's very difficult as H and I have had a passionate and adventurous sex life prior to all this. Quite honestly I don't think I'm emotionally ready as I'm still working on detaching. But man do I miss the man he was.
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We have only been intimate once since he moved out in November 09. This was a year last Christmas Eve. He had said he wanted to return home that he had made a mistake, so I didn't see any problem with that.
He has jokingly sent me suggestive text messages mostly in the early days but occasionally even up to a couple of months ago. I would be very wary of any intimacy now because I know so little about his life and what he has been up to.
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We were last intimate in 3/09....at my urging and agreeing to "no strings attached". He has never said anything even mildly suggestive or acted the least bit interested since.
He did go through a phase of watching those crazy sexual comedies, but he doesn't watch anything like that now. I could be wrong, but I don't think he even thinks about it. He has never had a strong labido.
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We were intimate at first a lot. It was like he was trying to make up for the OW. Then in November he told
me he wanted a divorce...none since then. I wanted to but he said it would only make it harder. I was
crushed. Our intimacy was never ever an issue before BD.
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Well after first BD in March 09 when he first said he wanted to live alone...just the same as always.
Then after BD2 in Aug 09 we had hysterical bonding were we were both trying to reclaim each other, our relationship, as well as the sex was fantastic with him making more of an effort with everything than he had in yrs...this would last for usually about 4 weeks then he would make contact with OW or her with him and he would withdraw again....I would find out, he would leave for the night, then beg to come home again the next day , this happened 5 times :o
In March 2009 he just wouldn't come near me, In April he kept saying he was still unhappy, I asked him to leave and he admitted he had been talking to OW again as he was trying to plead his way back in, I had had enough and made him find his own place to stay.
Although he came almost every day from then until about 8 weeks ago we were never intimate, he said he had no interest in sex at all (9 mths) with me or anyone.
Early December i really started to notice the change in him, like he was coming out of his depression (and he had 6 therapy sessions) he then started to get closer to me and we began to get intimate again soon after and have been since, but not the HB kind.
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This is something that honestly concerns me. I question, how many LBS continue having sex with their MLCér knowing they are having sex with OW?
When I was growing up the big thing was syphilis; nowdays there are disease out there that Clorox won't take off!
I have no idea if my H will ever want to reconcile our marriage; nor do I know if he is having an affair. My values and standards are way too high to consent to having sex with him if I knew he was having a sexual relationship with someone else.
You know, they do say when you have sex with someone you are also having sex with all the people these people had sex with too, and subjecting yourself to all types of VD.
Since I have not seen any topics on the forum in regards to this subject, I thought I would throw this out there for discussion.
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wow scary tsunami, i was thinking last night I should start this very topic in a discussion.
I would feel extremely uncomfortable having a sexual relationship with an MLCer in an affair because of the disease risk etc. I would also feel concerned about it after if the MLCer returned and would need to see clean test results I think, first.
I also would feel odd about it psychologically, but I wonder what others think abut the STD risk aspect of it all?
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Hi T
There's a whole minefield of issues here, but a word of warning, if it does come to ML again after reconciling, or even before, LBS must make sure their spouses have been checked out and safe sex must be observed.
I made the mistake of not doing either of those things. My H and I ML shortly before he left.
He left me with an STD as a parting present, i didn't know about any OW's at that point. Unfortunately, he may have gone for good, the STD will never go away. Now in future if i go on from Standing and have a new R, I will have to inform my new partner...a real icebreaker huh?
Their selfishness is unbelieveable, don't make any assumptions.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Excellent Subject because I was recently told by my PI that the OW in my husbands life is trailer trash/$l()t. A local Sherriff in their town where they are living also said he knows her and she had a really bad reputation in school, said she was a $l()t. She has never been married and she has 2 kids by I believe two different men and they were taken away by the courts. Now my husband ditched me in a 10 minute phone call in February and that same week before he ditched me he signed a lease on a new home with her and the following week they moved in together. He all along is telling me he is all alone that there is no one else. This OW also started working where my husband works at the end of Oct. last year so he doesn't even really know her. The Sherriff told me that my H really needs to watch out for STD's. So today my H was served. Today it was just for custody of our son and monetary issues saying he can't cut off the money. Well he did. His check did not go in the checkbook today like it has for years. This is all so disturbing. How does a man that I have been married to for 19 years, living together for 24 years abandon his family in a 10 minute call, move in with OW he hardly knows and she is, well, you know, trailer trash and probably has STD's. And how did he think I would ever let our son who hates him now anyway, how did he think he would ever be allowed at his house with her, when she has lost custody of her own kids. Everyone that knows us said he is just burying himself in a hole and it's getting deeper and deeper. They can't believe the horrible dicisions he is making with his life. Another thing, my H runs all these dealerships. So when this relationship blows up, how the heck is he ever going to get rid of her. He lives with her, she is on the lease so he can't throw her out and he can't fire her for no reason because she will probably sue the dealership for sexual harrassment against him. She loves the life he has set her up in. She grew up in a trailer so she doesn't want to leave that beautiful house or her job. His boss is going to kill him because he made a rule a few years back that he doesn't want any relationships going on within the dealerships because it causes so many problems. He is like a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode. I sent him an e-mail today letting him know that I know of his secret life he has been living and that I knew about his new love and I told him how she lost custody of her kids. Public Record. I really doubt that he knew about that. I have to wonder how much he does know about her. After being served and then my e-mail he is probably ready to kill himself. I hope not but wow, that is alot for someone to take in all in a day.
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Very good discussion. I questioned my exH regarding this very thing when I discovered his affair. The OW had a live-in boyfriend when they got involved. She couldn't dump boyfriend because he provided her with a vehicle (her credit was in the toilet and couldn't afford her own). So, as soon as my ex left me he bought her a vehicle so she kicked boyfriend to the curb. Well, I had to ask ex if he had been intimate with her prior to leaving me. He said no, but do I believe him? I honestly don't know. I also told the idiot that having sex with her meant he was also having sex with all the other men she slept with. This OW also had a reputation of "putting out" very frequently. She was/is a "man user". So, I'm not sure if my exH had sex with his second OW, but I wouldn't put it past him. In the defense of the second OW, the poor thing was so desperate for a man that she believed all his lies. She was truly not the typical OW. She had no idea she was involved with a married man. I have to ask myself, why would any woman get involved with a man (married or not) who just had an affair? I know for a fact that my exH lied to this poor pitiful woman. Their relationship didn't last any longer than the first one. At this point, I do not know if exH is involved with another woman. I know for sure being intimate with him again would be ONLY after he was tested and we took protective measures for a while. I've heard that some STD's can be "dormant" and not show up for 7 to 10 years. Any truth to this? These men who do this so stupidly deserves their "tally whacker" to fall off!
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I feel totally off topic as I have not had sex for such a long time that even mentioning the word gets me going. My issue really began with Buggy's plaid dress and necklace. Then InItForTheLongHaul took everything to the limit describing her red dress and swimsuit.
If you don't mind, I am going to start my own thread, "What I wore for Ready Today!!!!"
Now onto serious business. STDs and Hepatitis and other diseases are very scary. Most MLCer do not have protected sex (think Buggy and Writing Mom and a few other pregnancies). Also, if the MLCer is involved with OW, then you are not making love, you are just having sex and I think that only eats at your low self-esteem and kills your ability to detach and to pave the way.
I just know that I am not engaged with my w or anyone else. I may have my faults, but cheating is not one of them. ((((Hugs))))
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Wow, Ready. You sure know how to make a girl laugh!
I agree with you.......it is just plain SEX with the OW/OM's. There's nothing romantic or meaningful about it. Makes me sick!! My exH has told me that he hates what he did and wished he had not had sex with her. How can he get past the shame and guilt of what he did? Unless he deals with it directly, it will rear it's ugly head throughout his life. I pray for ALL of them!
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I hear ya Ready.....
When Rebel Yell posted about the time not too long ago when he unfastened his wife's bra to give her a backrub, I remember thinking it's been so long I would need an instruction manual just to do that.
Such a wonderful journey.
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DGU,
Actually the newer bras can be unfastened by using only your eyes!
(Kidding, kidding).
This post is heading to the gutter....so I will stop writing NOW.
L
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Nothing wrong with the gutter.
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Some of us look to the stars while in the gutter.
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Thats is why SL, you will always be my kinda woman!!!!
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All I can say is I sure hope there was no OM. I don't think there was.
Am I crazy for thinking that by now, if there was I would have found out?
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RY,
I don't think you want to know what I think.......
I (also) thought there was no other person.
L
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I thought the same thing. It was the very LAST thing I would have believed about my exH. But, sure enough, I was blown away once I found out! Never say never!
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I'm not going to hi jack this thread but I'll say this. If I find out there is you'll not hear from RY again.
You all are stronger than me, I couldn't stand any longer. BTW Pumpkin knows this, has always known
this yet she has talked about how much better our relationship is, that it's going the right way......
She would have to think that the secret would have to stay a secret forever. It goes against her grain,
but I know this is MLC. I think I stopped a potential EA at the beginning of her MLC. I think it was
a wake up for her and she did grasp the problem.
I've asked God to let me know the truth and I feel like there isn't one, but if there is, I'll survive, alone.
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Look, people... most of you are putting the cart before the horse, ya know what I'm sayin'?
If you cannot HANDLE having sex with your husband, then don't do it. I don't recommend it, though I did it myself more than once under entirely different circumstances. I personally have a MEAN streak and deliberately chose to get my husband to cheat on his OW with me once I was able to get his attention through my first 180... it was purely sex, but I knew it would confuse him and make him doubt his "love" for her.... I was 100% correct. I also knew it would cause her to tighten the noose and become controlling, needy and insecure with him. It was DELIBERATE.
I recommend the high road at all times, but some of us, as Shantilly put it, "Look to the stars while we are in the gutter..." LOL!!
Right now, I am willing to have sex with my husband, but it is to ease his mind about a lot of things such as, will we ever be able to get through this, plus, if he isn't seeing OW for two weeks, where will he get his "honey"? I'd rather he be HOME trying to seduce me while she is throwing tantrums and crying her eyes out, possibly meeting someone in revenge or cheating on him. I'm not afraid to admit to certain types of manipulation, but I don't recommend it... you'd better really know what you are doing and be willing to accept the consequences if it doesn't go your way...
For the record, before I knew about OW, he gave me two yeast infections.... I had no idea what to attribute them to other than a change in hormones, though I've only ever had one before in my LIFE....yep.... that clueless about OW...
Because of OW, he has been required to use a condom with me EVERY TIME...no exceptions. He hates them... has difficulty with them... has declined sex because of them.... whatever. He complains, but doesn't try and get me to change my mind. No exceptions and he gets why.
Several weeks ago, ON HIS OWN, after proclaiming he would get tested to prove to me he was clean.... he actually got tested for STDs. He is clean, which griped me because I would LOVE for OW to have given him something that was treatable and not forever.... instead, he got to proclaim that "see, she's not a bad person.". Anyway, I still made him use a condom because I knew he wasn't done with her, though he was "trying" to be.
My advice is, you probably shouldn't have sex with your husband as it can muddy the water, but if you are going to, condom use until you say otherwise.
My husband will have to be OW free for a looooooooooong time and THEN get tested before he goes without a raincoat. I have told him I RESENT the fact that I cannot have "regular" sex with my own husband because he's involved with a skank ho... he is starting to resent her for it as well, though the onus is really on him.
Treat your husband the same way you would treat anyone you were dating these days... yep... condom. 8)
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Sex....................
sex?.....................
Sex.....................
sex? ...............
What?
I said SSSSEEEXXX...
What?
Ohhh..........................
WHaaat?
SEX!
OHHHH!
I do not recall.............
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Rebel,
I hope that this isn't the situation for you. I really do.
I think Women and Men see infidelity differently.
Women are tied to their spouses in many ways - not just physically. Women, for the most part, are more emotional than men. And, if I can remember correctly (it's been so long) - sex is probably one of the most intimate, emotional experiences (can be, I think). Maybe I should say Making Love.
For Men, who are not, for the most part, emotional. I believe that it is during the act of Making Love (sex) where men (can) become emotionally tied to their spouse.
My H was not an emotional person. (at least he USED to not be - who knows now?)
So, when a husband cheats - the wife sees other aspects of her husband that bind her to him. (Don't get me wrong - the wife is upset, hurt, etc.). In many instances, the wife is emotionally, financially, etc. connected to her husband.
When a wife cheats - the strongest emotional bond she had with her husband is broken. (Again, I am speaking in generalities).
Thus, a woman is more apt to "forgive" a philandering husband - while a man (even if he has cheated himself) finds it very hard to "forgive" or get over the fact that his wife physically cheated on him.
While I can't stand the idea of my H having had a PA with his ex-wife or ex-girlfriend - I can honestly say that the fact that he shared intimate details regarding our marriage, me, his feelings, etc. with both of these two women hurts me more - than that he had a PA.
Or the honest truth is that men are just that shallow and cannot get past infidelity. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
I'm only kidding about the shallow part. So, no 2 x 4's my way - please.....
This is just my humble (very humble) opinion.
L
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Well put, Laursecan..... when are you moving closer to me?
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I've thought back over the many times H told me about some of the men on his crew; as soon as they hit a port most of them are anxious to get off the sub they head straight to the bar, then to the ow houses. H use to tell me how much it upset him seeing some of the married men acting like the single guys.
With that in mind, I want to believe H has higher morals than to have an affair; but then again, sorry guys, he is a man too. With his ED issues over the 18 years we have been married, I have now convinced myself his issues are all in his head; a by product of low self-esteem.
Speaking with my counselor about this, she didn't seem to think he would have the nerve to have sex with someone either, because of this issue. Our thoughts were it would be very embarrassing for a man not to get his ding ding up with someone new.
Okay DGU, RY, CH, OP and Ready...pitch in here. I did not intend to insult any of you about the man comment, but be honest, you guys do think about it a lot more than we do, it's human nature.
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I can go 17 or 18 seconds without thinking about it. :)
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Damn, I 've almost gone that many years with out it!
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Tsunami
Even though I'm a dude, I can't answer the question as to whether your husband would have the nerve (or even ability?) to have sex with someone else or not due to that issue.
One thing we all know, which is one of the key reasons we are on this forum, is that the value system of our spouses/ex-spouses is a bit off kilter during MLC.
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or not due to that issue.
DGU, you almost had me falling out of my chair. I thought I had read...
Or not with a dude for that issue! LOL
Watch out, I'm feeling better again, and being fiesty tonight!
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My ex had issues so he got a prescription to help him but he didn't get it filled for at least a month before leaving me. I later realized it wasn't for being with me but OW! I threw it up in his face when I discovered his affair.
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BTW Tsunami, you say your from the south but you wrote Clorox instead of Purex?
You have been gone a long time. ;)
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Rebel,
I've been in the South my entire life and it's always been Clorox!
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ED issues.... he tried to blame it on the vasectomy.... but it is depression. 40's is way too young unless there is a medical issue... it's just rare....
Mine got a prescription as well... tried EVERYTHING, including Boston Medical Group which involved injections.... I went along with it, but he was DESPERATE and it hurt me to think he was mired in chasing his tail that way... I firmly (sorry) believe it is depression ALONE that causes the ED.
Now, if he wants to take a pill with me, I'm fine with it, but there have been times when he was totally relaxed, mentally, and there was NO need for the pills... and I'm the old ball and chain, so I knew it wasn't the "newness" of the "new" and nothing special going on... just sayin'
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Yes, I have been gone a while; Seattle for eight, then Guam for five. Jacksonville, in between those two for two years.
RY - It's my favorite stock! Hey, it's the only product known to kill AIDS!
LG, it was going on at 30, when we got married. He has vascular issues and depression; which I feel are the cause, including low self-esteem which I have noticed our whole marriage. He took meds for depression, then blamed that on the ED, which may have been somewhat true.
Also, LG, you can get yeast infections taking antibiotics too. Hope that takes some blame off husband just in case you want to slap the sheet out of him.
DGU, that value system comment is what worries me. That was one of the reasons he was a good man to marry, you did hear that was didn't you?
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Tsunami
Keep in mind that, as part of the MLC process, the value system goes from "is" to "was". Then as the process winds down, the value system generally looks much more like it was before the crisis.
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JFYI, I rarely take antibiotics... it was simply the transfer of microbes from one person to another...
Anti-depressants typically cause sexual dysfunction as a side effect...
Then, it is a vicious cycle.... trying to feel like a "man"... the depression on top of it... well, it would truly take a NEW sexual relationship to have enough juice and excitement to overcome all of that, but it is only temporary...
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I love sex and I would rather be having sex with my w right now then pathetically writing about it on my computer. Maybe I am completely stupid, a fool, but I have never ever considered cheating on my wife. Even when I had my lunch with the hot women in LA and LG is a keeper, I still wanted to be with my wife.
I was in Vietnam with my wife and her cousin took me to a massage parlor. A very pretty girl rubbed my back and my feet. She massaged my temples and my hands. Then her hand went under my towel for a massage of another part of my body! I stopped her immediately and pointed at my ring. She looked so shocked. She probably thought I was gay. I could have done nothing and never been caught but I have always been proud of being faithful.
Now that I look back... I am a complete idiot. Stupid, stupid, stupid Ready.
Now my true love is my right hand and even when things go well, the left hand gets jealous....
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Hmmm I have been trying to word and reword this since i saw it this morning.
I don't advise it.
I have the same streak as LG.
Always proteted now.
Dearheart and I had a very active sex life and so having that removed was an absolute shock to the system.
But I also took pleasure in being the ow.
Not so much now but it maintains a link with him that he wants to keep going. At this point I know it will most liekly stop at some point. I have stopped everything else but I do enjoy this.
I don't kid myself about ML it is sex. But sometimes (and I mean sometimes) on his behalf he LOOKS at me and truly sees me. Hadn't happened in along time but i have seen it in the last little while.
do I pin my hopes on it NO, but the attachment is there.
I don't feel guilty about having sex with him, mostly I feel guilty for not feeling guilty ::)
I wonder why I am so different to others. But then again I know that I am different and slightly off kilter to most so why not this way as well?
We do what is right for ourselves and what our intuition tells us.
I know he is cake eating but then again so am I. So I spose it makes me no better.
I will follow my feelings though. Makes for less confusion LOL
Ready, man, many women would be jealous. LOL and being faithful doesn't make you an idiot.
It makes you a catch
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Hey SL,
I don't think you are so different. If my husband showed any sign of finding me sexually attractive since he was with OW I might find it more confusing. We had sex twice after BD and both times it was awful - I was sure he was thinking about her (which bothered me because I had only known about her for a month at the time) and the whole thing seemed like a massive effort to him.
My H (I discovered) has a whole host of intimacy issues that I was only semi-aware of in our relationship but only came out to the full extent after BD. Over-dependent on porn, scared of initiating sex (was mostly me who did that), the affair made a lot of sense to me in that sense, because OW was this unknown entity who was a fantasy unfolding in the affair (like a porn star, but without the porn star looks :o). Some of our problems may have been exacerbated by our difficulities conceiving D because it is true that it takes a certain spontaneity out of the experience and over a longer period probably can make a man feel that the sex is no longer about him (which was sometimes true because of the necessity of timings etc for conception). Still, I thought that if you loved someone the opportunity to be with them would be pleasing no matter what the circumstances - despite the lack of spontaneity, I always enjoyed it (tmi??). Anyway, with all this baggage I think that this is just another reason his R with OW is doomed, as she becomes more and more "real" and her flaws become evident, and she starts declining sex occasionally, his fantasy will start to fade and he will be faced with real intimacy again, where he has problems.
I also believe H has serious issues surrounding motherhood. Our sex life took a real nose dive after my first was born (even after I had lost the baby weight and was looking pretty good again) but I always attributed it to tiredness with the broken sleep, job stress and all the other concerns that take over in mid-life. It plummeted completely during my pgcy with D four years later and that is also when his MLC started to really take hold. His mother has always been an incredibly strong person in his life (and, though lovely in most ways, controlling and to my mind a bit overbearing as a mother - even now, WHENEVER he has a problem he runs to her and she solves it for him and he is almost 36). So I think that when I became a mother and started to fulfil that role, it was almost inevitable that I could not also be his sexual fantasy anymore. Issues, issues, issues. I actually think that this is one of the main issues that if he does not resolve he may not really emerge from MLC, because he has had such a terribly hard time trying to cut the apron strings.
A lot of the stuff I discovered about my H's attitude to sex was that it was very adolescent and, I think, overly romanticised. He hated the idea that sex could be fun - it was "serious" and romantic at all times.
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SL. I totally understand you. I do the same. I think even of it's just "no strings attached sex" it still gets to them. I also have had very few times when he's looked at me in the eye during sex and I've seen glimpses of the old H. But again, very few!
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Gosh this is a popular thread, 36 posts in 16 hours.
I guess you write the word sex on a friday night and
everyone wants to participate on the thread.
I have not much to add other than to RY, it is very possible that there is no OM
but the OM is more than likely a fantasy that you do not know about.
Does pumpkin read trashy novels, or watch TV shows.
That might be the key there, I am not sure which is worse because it is very difficult to compete
with a fantasy that does not exist IRL.
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StandandDeliver,
My H is somewhat the same.
57 and he lives with his mother!
Talk about not cutting the umbilical cord!
I also wonder if he will ever come out of it!
Hope that he can, for his sake.
L
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I agree with LG,
I have had "sex" with H several times in the last 8 months....I think in some ways it is a good thing
for them to connect with us.
H has told me that he has actually said MY name during sex with Ow....HAHAHAHAH!!! Now thats Classic!! ;D :D
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OP, nope she doesn't read those novels or watch soaps, very little TV.
She's pretty grounded compared to most MLCers.
Never monster, never had a problem staying in communication with me.
Just needs space to think more than anything.
I think she feels that there's no such thing as true love because I couldn't
make her feel the way she wanted to with out her telling me what she wanted.
I was supposed to read her mind and fill her with joy, well we know how well
THAT works. The good news it now she's better at telling me what she wants.
I've drummed that into her head pretty good.