Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: MyBrainIsBroken on April 09, 2016, 07:59:56 PM
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I have a lot of catching up to do from my previous thread. I appreciate everyone's comments and I'll try to respond to some of those here.
Condensed Version of My Story
Like so many on here I believe my wife's MLC started long before BD.
We had a very close marriage, we did everything together, had an occasional rough spot but I thought we were both very happy.
A couple of years before BD my wife's father died.
He was a monster, both emotionally and physically abusive to wife and children.
My wife hated him so much we went to the funeral home so she could see that he was really dead.
My trauma therapist told me recently that she thinks that his death triggered the slow release of the childhood trauma buried deep within my wife.
She said she thinks it caused my wife to have what she described as a mental breakdown.
My wife was severely depressed from Dec. 2013 through April 2014.
I found out later that the alienator started pursuing her between Feb. and March 2014.
June 29, 2014 she told me she had a friend and their relationship had become sexual.
She said this wasn't about me, it was about her.
She said she didn't want to be a wife, mother, or grandmother, she wanted to be herself.
But she said she didn't know who she was.
She also said she didnt feel anything at all for me.
The rest of the story is typical MLC confusion and cycling but practically no angry monstering.
She still tries to be friendly with me and I went along with it for six months.
Now I try to avoid contact because any contact triggers my PTSD, causing severe dissociation.
I was served with divorce papers on New Year's Eve, 2014.
Since then I'm been experiencing more and more severe dissociation and depression.
We were married for 34 years before BD.
I "celebrated" our 35th annversary by myself.
Our 36th anniversary is next month but I don't know if we'll make it until then. Update: we made it, I think.
I have several unopened letters from my lawyer sitting on my desk so I might already be divorced.
We have two daughters, D32 and D35.
My wife and I raised GD14 and she lived with us until she was 10 so she seems more like a daughter than a granddaughter.
D32, GD14, GS10, and GS7 live 1 mile from us in a house I helped D32 buy.
D35, GD10, and GD7 live two hours away.
GD14 and my wife were like twins and D32 and my wife spent a lot of time together.
My wife still tries to have a relationship with them but they rarely see her or hear from her and she isn't there when they need her.
D32 hates the alienator because she worked for him 8 years ago.
She was married then and the alienator made her very uncomfortable by constantly hitting on her.
My wife said recently that D32 misunderstood the alienator; that he flirts with everyone, that's just how he is.
D32's husband was an emotionally manipulative serial cheater and killed himself 5 years ago, 2 days after she had him served with divorce papers.
D32 says the alienator is just like her deceased husband; he's also a lot like my wife's deceased father.
I wouldn't mind if the alienator killed himself.
D32 and GD14 have both been severely depressed since BD and are being treated for it.
D32 is also being treated for PTSD and GD14 is also being treated for severe anxiety.
GD14 has been struggling and has been hospitalized. She's being homeschooled now.
Links to first thread and previous thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5560.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5560.0)
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7643.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7643.0)
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Brilliant! Love it when RL makes you too busy for the forum!
Your date is GD14, right? ;)
Yes, LaughLoveLive, GD14 was my date tonight and she was an excellent choice. She's very good company and she enjoyed the evening. We went to the fire department's annual dinner. We live in a small town so this was a huge social event with the fire department, EMS squad, police department, local politicians, and local dignitaries all in attendance. I guess I'm part of the "in" crowd now.
We sat next to a woman who I knew from high school days. Actually, she knew me. I barely remembered her. She whispered to me that she has lost all respect for the man my wife is with. She said she saw them together at a grocery store in the small city that's about 15 miles away from us. Then she asked me if I was ok with the divorce and I told her no. She said "Really?" and I told her I'm not at all ok with the divorce or anything about the situation. She asked me if I'd take my wife back and she was somewhat disappointed in me when I told her I would. But it turns out that she's been divorced twice so I wouldn't expect her to understand why I would take my wife back.
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I bet you had the best date in the house. Your D and GD have been through a lot too. I'm so happy that you remain a positive presence in their life. I feel sorry for W that she is choosing to miss the opportunity to be there for them.
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Thanks for the reminder of your situation. Attaching! :)
I bet you had the best date in the house. Your D and GD have been through a lot too. I'm so happy that you remain a positive presence in their life. I feel sorry for W that she is choosing to miss the opportunity to be there for them.
Ditto.
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What a great date to take B. But if they invited all the dignitaries, l can't work out why Chookster and me didn't get an invo, weird. :D
But l can see why she would be like that , it's pretty typical. l never really told anyone l would wait for her when l was, it's just not an understandable thing if your w or h has effd off with someone else.
Tbh , l couldn't even understand how l could even consider it myself except for that fact that a lot of our stuff was me in our last few yrs, that was the big difference.
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LOL hawk maybe you and chookie will get an invite to the next one!
An interesting night then MBIB
A nice time with GD
A different view from the old high school acquaintance
A different view of yourself as one of the "in" crowd, a contributing and appreciated member of your community
All in all a good night,I would say
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What a great date to take B. But if they invited all the dignitaries, l can't work out why Chookster and me didn't get an invo, weird. :D
So weird! ??? Maybe not everyone thinks of a Chook and a Hawk as dignitaries, H! Pffftt! ;)
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Thanks for everyone sending warm wishes for the dinner and for all the nice comments afterwards. It was a nice evening but it was also bittersweet because GD14 enjoyed herself and I realized if my wife would have been there GD14 would not have been there. She's such a good girl. She sat between me and the woman I mentioned. This woman is a year or two younger than me but, unlike me, she acts her age so she must have seemed ancient to a 14 year old, yet GD14 sat there all night talking with this woman and enjoying every bit of it. She had a huge steak for dinner and ate every bit of it which is surprising because she eats even less than I do. And she seemed pleased that several people, including the woman sitting next to her, thought she was my daughter and were surprised to learn that she is my granddaughter. Afterwards she was even able to talk her grandpa into stopping at McDonald's for an ice cream cone which completed the evening for her.
It was also bittersweet because it ended with a reminder that GD14 is still fragile. She hasn't spent any time at my house in months but we came back here after the dinner because her mother went out to dinner and wasn't back yet. There was a small quilted blanket in the living room that one of my wife's friends had made and given to my wife but GD14 wasn't sure that's where it came from so she went searching on my wife's friends FB account. What she found was a conversation from several years ago in which my wife mentioned the OM's name. I think it was innocent at that time. She and her friend were discussing union business and he is the union president, but GD14 instantly fell apart and it took a while to get her to calm back down. 14 is a difficult age for them to have to be dealing with this crap. After she left I noticed the blanket was missing. I thought maybe she took it home with her but then I found that she had moved it up into a front bedroom where nobody goes any more. The bedroom used to be GD14's, then my wife fixed it up after BD so she could move into it and now GD14 stays away from it.
Thanks to UKStander and ReallyTrying for mentioning that they're interested in hearing those things that I used to be able to tell my wife about. The thing is they're mostly inconsequential but it was nice to have somebody to mention them to. Some examples:
When I was at the trauma therapists on Wednesday, as I was leaving she noticed her next appointment hadn't arrived so she asked me if I would come back in and do her a favor. She was receiving a social worker of the year award on Thursday and she wanted to know if I would listen to her acceptance speech and give her some feedback. I was honored that she asked me to do it and I thought it was interesting to learn who and what influenced her.
Thursday night I went to the Fire Hall for an annual physical exam. While I was there they test-fitted me for a mask for a SCBA outfit so now I'm certified to use and wear the SCBA outfit. Once I take the interior firefighter's course I'll be qualified to go into places any smart person would avoid. They did a pulmonary test as part of the fit test and the test showed that I have the lungs of a 38 year old.
Thanks for listening. I need to get some sleep now. I was out until 3am last night transporting an assault victim to the hospital and I had to be back to the ambulance garage by 9am for training. I've learned why I like the one EMT so much. We were talking about sleep last night and she said the only time she really feels awake is when she's riding in the ambulance.
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All sounds good, Brain.
Was the woman from HS hitting on you?
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Was the woman from HS hitting on you?
I don't know. I'm clueless about that sort of thing. I don't think I'd know unless she said hey, I'm hitting on you. Then I'd probably decide she was joking. But I did notice that she didn't say very much to me after I told her I would take my wife back.
What a great date to take B. But if they invited all the dignitaries, l can't work out why Chookster and me didn't get an invo, weird. :D
I don't know what happened. I'm sure it must have been an oversight but I'm going to check with the Annual Dinner Committee and find out what happened. You have my word that heads will roll! :D
Hawk wrote l'm sorry to btw about the d proceeding to B . You know though , l can't help but wonder if w has actually agreed or is she just on the train ride right now and unsure where the brake is, maybe even thinking there isn't any brakes now.
Not saying she is , but l do wonder if she does want this moving right now.
I don't know what to think but I'm dreading the court hearing on Wednesday. Does anyone know if you can call in sick to court?
I talk with a lot of people who are divorced. The woman last night had been divorced twice. My brother is working on divorce number five. I was talking with a guy at the fire hall a few days ago who mentioned that he's been divorced for 9 years after his first wife changed overnight and left him. I've learned that my best friend's second wife was married to an MLCer. She didn't even know it but recognized it after I started telling her what I think is going on with my wife. Even on THS several of my friends are divorced and they say it's not that big a deal and several others are going through the process and looking forward to having it over with. I'm not there yet. I was looking at photos of our wedding day and my wife was so happy. How did we go from that to this?
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that my wife thinks she's doing me a favor by divorcing me. She knows I have too much integrity to date while we're still married. Maybe she thinks if she divorces me I'll start dating and then I can find happiness like she has. Pffft!
I saw the Psychiatrist on Friday. He's supposed to be an expert in treating PTSD with chemicals. He's not going to change the AD medicine I'm on. He told me he thinks I need to see my trauma therapist more than I need medication. I go back to see him again in a month. He told me if I start feeling unstable again I can call his office anytime.
The Psychiatrist asked me what I want medication to do for me. I couldn't answer him. I had no idea because there isn't any medication I can take that will end my wife's crisis. The Psychiatrist knows me pretty well after just one visit. What he actually asked me was what would I like the medicine to do for me other than to put me into a coma.
I realized later that what I need is a "give a $h!te" pill. I have a lot of stuff I should do that doesn't get done because I just don't care anymore. I'm behind on my bills again and I haven't done this year's income taxes. For the past couple of weeks I've been telling myself I need to see how much heating oil is left in the tank but I didn't care enough to do it. Saturday afternoon the furnace quit because it was out of fuel. And you know what? I still didn't care. I went to the gas station and bought a couple of gallons of diesel and put it in the tank and that should get me through until I can order a tank on Monday. And if it doesn't I'll deal with it.
I should probably get rid of this house. Nobody ever comes here anymore and after last night GD14 probably won't come here again. There are still too many triggers here for everyone but my wife doesn't want me to get rid of the house and it is comfortable here.
I must not be very smart because I can't understand divorce. For a while I was listening to these guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sXoA7B5yJo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sXoA7B5yJo) but now I'm leaning towards Evanescence again.
Sorry this isn't more positive. I think I got too much sleep last night. Time to go to church.
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I signed the paperwork last week - its not really that big of a deal.
My actual word in my own posting was "anti-climactic"
I think selling the house might be a good thing - you seem to be triggered by memories there.
Why not start looking around at places to live that you might like - see what the real estate market is like in your area?
Personally I think divorce is a transition.
You no longer are married once you are divorced.
It is an adjustment.
My personal suggestion?
Don't be broadcasting that you would take your wife back to people you hardly know.
It serves no purpose at all.
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Even on THS several of my friends are divorced and they say it's not that big a deal and several others are going through the process and looking forward to having it over with. I'm not there yet. I was looking at photos of our wedding day and my wife was so happy. How did we go from that to this?
I think divorce is a very big deal.
Why do you think you need to negate how you feel about your wife, your marriage and divorce because others accept it as something that is common, the way the world just is now and that we are foolish somehow to remember the love we shared the vows we made.
To negate the reality of the many years together, our family, the love we shared would leave me feeling like those years had no meaning or value. They had 32 years of meaning and were the happiest years of my life.
We can still find peace, contentment and joy, yes and still honor what was the most significant event in our lives. Our marriages and the lives that we shared had value.
This attitude that it is no big deal, really?
Airmid stated:
Don't be broadcasting that you would take your wife back to people you hardly know.
It serves no purpose at all.
Indeed it DOES have tremendous purpose. It shows others that you don't buy into our throw away society. It shows that you are a man of honor and integrity, that you understand that your wife is suffering from something that is beyond her control. It shows that you are committed to your wife, and as long as you love her and desire her to be your wife again then feel free to express this to who ever you wish.
You do not know who you might be saying this to. Perhaps someone whose own marriage is in danger of being destroyed. I have several people in my life who love me because I will not give up on him. By telling others that you would like to reconcile one day, you make it very clear who you are, what you stand for...and you verbally proclaim your obedience to God's will regarding the sacrament of marriage.
Too many times, we shy away from speaking our truth. We are afraid of appearing foolish. You have always stated that you love your wife, that you hope that someday she will return to you and your family. You can be proud of being honest and real and not afraid to look at the world's view that everyone will be "fine" and "happier".....your actions and words speak volumes to those who are being lead astray by a world whose morals and values are lost.
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I'm with xyzcf on this one. For me, the emotionally gutting part of the divorce hit me like a ton of bricks. I tried to stay all zen and thought my stand would override it, but the resistance just transmuted it into clinical depression. It is absolutely okay and normal to lean into your feelings and let them burn through without having to put on a strong facade for anyone's benefit (even if you think it will help yourself).
Now I am in a bigger place of just wanting a settlement (since it's been three years since my marriage has been declared over!) but I could not have been in that same place three years ago.
Our beliefs make us who we authentically are. I always loved hearing from someone IRL that they gave their marriage a few extra years, even if it still didn't work out. I just wanted to know my gut feelings weren't denial, and their testimony to that helped. I was not the only person who had been through this. And the people who judged me for not running off to divorce ended up dissipating from my life anyway, so it's not like they would have been supportive forces long term. And really, who cares what other people think? Wayne Dyer always said, "be independent of the good opinion of others" as the means to finding self-actualization. I believe that's a pretty good start. Even WE are just people on the internet, so what right do we have to direct your steps? Speak your truth and be you and that in itself is more strength than any method you will ever find.
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Dear MBIB
I have read so many of your postings. It brings tears to hear about so many going through this. I have deep respect for you and your decisions. I do share those thoughts. I hope that you and your family find peace and happiness, no matter what the outcome. And thank you for the services you provide people in need.
My H just filed, after 22 years of marriage. I find divorce even more devastating than BD and I too suffer from PTSD and depression. I felt like maybe I could recover from all that but divorce seems too final. Like a huge rejection on my forehead. It's a big hurdle.
I too have found myself not caring about the house and bills, and unfortunately my health. My anxiety made me unable to eat. This is probably normal for some going through this crisis. I'm glad to hear you still have your health. My prayers are with you. God bless.
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MB, I've never been to court, but empathize with your dread. Sadly, even though I think you were being facetious, I don't think this is one of those things where you can call in sick. Your best interest is to do the thing you believe you cannot do.
Then again - maybe you don't have a court date. Have you opened up those letters from your lawyer? Maybe the date has changed. Maybe there is no date. Maybe....who knows?
SHC, I am so sorry that you are experiencing an unwanted divorce, too.
I don't want to turn this into a complete hi-jack of MB's thread (oops, maybe too late!) but the whole divorce doesn't matter and expectations of society/others really resonates with me right now.
I 'get' Airmid's point, re: telling someone you don't know you'd take your your spouse back is pointless. But, the woman did ask. So, the truthful answer for MB is 'yes'.
The truthful answer for another may be 'no', and another may be 'don't know'.
I also 'get' xyzcf & R2Ts points.
That's pretty much where I am myself, today, on a day when I am wrestling, once again, between the inner dialogue of "what to do" and "don't have to do anything". ('Don't have to" is winning. At the moment.)
Speaking our truth - especially to our selves, and to others if asked - is crucial. There is nothing that says one must follow the prevailing social norm. Because right now, yes, if my H were interested in reconciling, yes, I would be all in working on restoring our marriage. Yes, I would 'take him back'.
Though it's not really about 'taking him back', is it?
He's still here.
In my heart.
He's never left it.
He's still in my mind.
Every. Day.
I'm still,
in my core,
his wife.
I feel as married as I was the day before BD. More self-aware. More reflective. Certainly not as secure! Certainly not as trusting. And not as blind.
My willingness and desire to chart a new path for our marriage hasn't really wavered. But my conviction that he'd look back has. My confidence that it would only take a little time definitely has.
Like R2T, I have found that some people who encouraged me to move on have begun to really respect my choice. Others think that I'm stuck. Perhaps I am. I prefer to think of it as 'stuck on' what I believe in.
However, I'm also well aware that it's at the point where, unless people specifically ask, the only people I can even talk to about it are the folks here.
But if I'm asked if I'd 'take' him back?
You bet. My response would be what it's always been:
Yes.
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Funny... I got asked the "would you take him back" question just last night. I haven't been asked it for months and months. So I had to rethink my current position.
I answered that I would never ever close that door. That I didn't know what the future held but I was working on not being attached to any particular outcome so who knows? That he would always be a part of my life and the thread still existed between us. I think my friend was quite surprised by my response - she has seen me work hard to accept what has happened and find my inner strength. So, while she knew divorce had been a BIG deal for me, she thought I was all AOK with it all by now. Which to a certain extent I am but it doesn't mean any doors are closed.
Regarding telling people of your stand... Well I'm glad you told that woman! I admit that while I revealed my "no closed doors" policy to a very close friend last night, I wouldn't reveal it to very many people at all. That's me being cowardly - I don't want to have to deal with others response. Others just seem to accept /expect we Should just move on without a beat. Impossible! There has been such huge upheaval! Meaning there was huge love! But I don't want to spend my energy justifying my own personal belief in the face of the differing opinion of others so I just hold my belief quietly within me.
I have been conscious lately of the difference we can make in others lives, just by living our own life. My father recently gave a eulogy at the funeral of a lady who lived with his family as a young woman during WW2. This girl came from a very violent home situation so didn't understand what a family could be like or that a marriage could involve love and so she had decided that she would never marry or a have a family herself. Apparently this all changed when she lived with my grandparents and their family and saw how a family and a marriage could be, when it was based on love. Without even realising they were doing anything special, just by living their lives, they changed her life. She married, adopted 2children, raised her niece also, and worked for many years managing the volunteer aides at a large mental health hospital. What a lovely life she ended up leading, what a ripple effect of her good life, what a difference can be made by just being ourself and living life true to our own values - like my grandparents obviously did.
So go ahead MBIB and live your life according to your own beliefs of what is important - like loving your wife, and telling people about it. You can't know what the ripple effect will be.
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You do not know who you might be saying this to. Perhaps someone whose own marriage is in danger of being destroyed. I have several people in my life who love me because I will not give up on him. By telling others that you would like to reconcile one day, you make it very clear who you are, what you stand for...and you verbally proclaim your obedience to God's will regarding the sacrament of marriage.
Thank you. I didn't realize it but this is what I needed to hear today.
I'm with xyzcf on this one. For me, the emotionally gutting part of the divorce hit me like a ton of bricks. I tried to stay all zen and thought my stand would override it, but the resistance just transmuted it into clinical depression. It is absolutely okay and normal to lean into your feelings and let them burn through without having to put on a strong facade for anyone's benefit (even if you think it will help yourself).
And thank you, too, for your honesty and openness.
I have read so many of your postings. It brings tears to hear about so many going through this. I have deep respect for you and your decisions. I do share those thoughts. I hope that you and your family find peace and happiness, no matter what the outcome. And thank you for the services you provide people in need.
And thank you for your kind words. I'm so sorry you're going through this too and I hope you're able to find some peace. Try to take care of yourself. You're important and you have to believe this isn't really a rejection of you. But I know that it feels that way.
I find divorce even more devastating than BD and I too suffer from PTSD and depression. I felt like maybe I could recover from all that but divorce seems too final. Like a huge rejection on my forehead. It's a big hurdle.
Me too.
I don't want to turn this into a complete hi-jack of MB's thread (oops, maybe too late!) but the whole divorce doesn't matter and expectations of society/others really resonates with me right now.
This wouldn't be a hijack. Our society has an easy fix mentality and it affects all of us.
I 'get' Airmid's point, re: telling someone you don't know you'd take your your spouse back is pointless. But, the woman did ask. So, the truthful answer for MB is 'yes'.
The truthful answer for another may be 'no', and another may be 'don't know'.
You're right. What was I supposed to do, lie to her? After I told the woman yes I added that I meant my vows when I spoke them and I said for better or worse and that I guessed that this is the "worse" part.
Though it's not really about 'taking him back', is it?
He's still here.
In my heart.
He's never left it.
He's still in my mind.
Every. Day.
I'm still,
in my core,
his wife.
I feel as married as I was the day before BD. More self-aware. More reflective. Certainly not as secure! Certainly not as trusting. And not as blind.
This is very powerful. I don't think I'll ever call my wife my ex because I don't think I'll ever consider us as anything other than husband and wife.
Today's been a pretty good day. I've been out with the ambulance three times so far. I've decided one of the reasons I like going on ambulance calls is because I become totally focused on the call and on the patient when we're out there and MLC is no longer sitting there in the back of my mind like it usually is.
The only bad thing today is that it seems five gallons of fuel wasn't enough so I'm off to buy some more so I can get the furnace turned back on. It would be a lot easier if it would just warm up.
I think my friend was quite surprised by my response - she has seen me work hard to accept what has happened and find my inner strength. So, while she knew divorce had been a BIG deal for me, she thought I was all AOK with it all by now. Which to a certain extent I am but it doesn't mean any doors are closed.
The woman last night asked me if I was ok with the divorce. That's what led to her asking whether I would take my wife back. She seemed shocked when I told her no, I wasn't ok with it. In fact she followed up by asking "You're not ok with the divorce?" as though she couldn't understand why I wouldn't be ok with it considering what my wife has done.
So go ahead MBIB and live your life according to your own beliefs of what is important - like loving your wife, and telling people about it. You can't know what the ripple effect will be.
Thanks LLL. People may think I'm foolish for my stand but I've never been too concerned about what others think about me. After all, I'm 57 yo, I run marathons, and my hair is almost down to my shoulders now. If someone wants to judge me, they have lots of reasons. Yet, people still seem to like me. Hard to believe, isn't it?
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This a very moving discussion that goes right to the heart what integrity means, and it makes me reflect on how long and tough we should, and do, hang in there for our beliefs. I think the longer the standing time (ie holding out for the marriage) the tougher it gets - up to a certain point - and then it becomes easier. Fewer people ask me any longer. I used to dread the question. Now I'm ready for it. Bring 'em on. Pity more people don't ask, actually! We get better at stating our point of view in fewer words, and the words come out with more conviction, so there's rarely any come back. At this point, I feel that I could probably stand forever - were money no object, and my home secure. I think I'm capable now of keeping the door open to the future whilst still not giving up on my H. I've got used to standing, I guess. And it fits me. There's something in my past and in my very character which says you don't let someone down just because they're sick, and you don't give up on someone you love, however hateful they're being, IF that hatefulness is caused by 'sickness' or they're too young or whatever, to know better. I wouldn't want H back as he is, but I've read enough to know that growth through mlc is possible - where there's a will there's a way. I can kind of see him, in my mind's eye, weeping in my arms and the two of us talking and agreeing that we'll do whatever it takes. I think he would say that, were he ever to wake up. He's been a climber, a fighter. He used to have determination - maybe it's still buried in there somewhere. But I digress...
I agree with xy that divorce is HUGE, in terms of the failure it represents. Two grown up people who couldn't stick by their commitment and work at it? In marriages that were mostly very, very good, all things considered? That just sucks, big time. Marriage is the best chance most of us have for real, authentic personal growth. On the other hand, perhaps within the context of MLC divorce is not such a big thing because MLC trumps divorce, as we've been told. The relationship may yet be restored, way down the line when the adulterous r'ship falls apart. So, for me, D is everything, and yet possibly also just a transition I might have to go through on this rocky journey. Because I simply can't afford to 'stand' any longer. :-[ But even divorced, that door to H may still be ajar.
Brain, I'm so sorry about the court hearing. Somehow I've not kept up with your story, so I don't know how you've got from unopened envelopes in 2014 to a court hearing. But still, it's true that anything, or nothing, could yet happen. I will be hoping and praying that your troubled, mixed up (in head) W will realise she's in fog and that it's wiser to do nothing, for now, than lose you forever. I'm sending you BIG doses of strength from over here. I hope they reach you.
Know just what you mean about the bills and the practical house maintenance things that need doing. For some weird reason these are still uphill for me. I procrastinate all the time. I used to be a really organised, get-things-done kind of person. Not any longer. There's a little grain of pointlessness in maintaining a home when you don't know if you'll be able to keep it and when hardly anyone else but you needs it any more.
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Though it's not really about 'taking him back', is it?
He's still here.
In my heart.
He's never left it.
He's still in my mind.
Every. Day.
I'm still,
in my core,
his wife.
Yes. Exactly.
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What a great date to take B. But if they invited all the dignitaries, l can't work out why Chookster and me didn't get an invo, weird. :D
So weird! ??? Maybe not everyone thinks of a Chook and a Hawk as dignitaries, H! Pffftt! ;)
::) , it's a cruel world isn't it chook.
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What a great date to take B. But if they invited all the dignitaries, l can't work out why Chookster and me didn't get an invo, weird. :D
So weird! ??? Maybe not everyone thinks of a Chook and a Hawk as dignitaries, H! Pffftt! ;)
::) , it's a cruel world isn't it chook.
Just...so...cruel! :-\ :-\ ;D
MB, no one has the right to judge you and what you choose to believe or stand for. As you know, I waver daily on whether I'd ever take H back. As I cycle, so do the thoughts and ideas about where I actually am in all of this and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Others have been through their own trials and have arrived at a different platform, have a different point of view, that was their journey and perhaps they arrived where they were meant to, maybe not. Who will ever know?
We are the only ones who have to be comfortable in our own skin. What happens inside our heads and hearts is ours to deal with. And we'll deal with it the best way we can, in our own time and on our own terms. X
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I've never had any doubts about whether I'd take my wife back because I've never been able to imagine a future without her. Probably something wrong with that. I wrote this in response to a PM and I think this is a good opportunity to post it on here.
The bottom line is that I simply miss my wife. I miss talking with her, I miss being with her, I miss going places with her, I miss her smile and her laugh and her touch, and I miss her caring and her concern and her love for me and our family. How do I change that?
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The bottom line is that I simply miss my wife. I miss talking with her, I miss being with her, I miss going places with her, I miss her smile and her laugh and her touch, and I miss her caring and her concern and her love for me and our family. How do I change that?
I don't know if there is a ever change that. Or if there is any need to change it. As times goes by, we will be more detached, but, there will still be occasions we will miss our MLCer.
Those of us who found someone else, may stop missing the MLCer for good (or may not, I really do not know), but those who remain single, even if their life is very full, will always, here and there, miss the MLCer.
I see nothing with your missing your wife. It is one thing to miss someone, another to stay stuck. And I don't think you are stuck.
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Brain - like you I have no doubts about taking my h back. I love him and miss him daily. I have found that I can find happiness anyway but for me that doesn't include another man. I agree wholeheartedly with XY & R2T - divorce is a big deal and I think your feelings seem perfectly natural to me. I also see nothing wrong with telling the lady you'd take W back. Anyone who asks me gets that answer from me. I have also known that transparency to be helpful both to me for owning my reality and for someone going through it who thinks they are alone. I think there is no shame in being firm in your marriage vows. I told someone the other day that "I vowed better or worse - I guess here's a bit of that worse." She didn't seem to understand but she doesn't need to. The only person who needs to understand my choice is me. As long as you know it's right for you to stand then I am 100% behind that choice.
I understand your missing having her there to share some of those mundane details of life. I miss that too - the reliable friendship that H and I had. We are always interested though I recognize its not quite the same.
Did you open the letters?
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What a great group of people are on here. WTH are we all doing on here? None of us should be on here.
Thanks RT. I appreciate everyone who has shown interest. I had one of those moments today where I wanted to tell somebody something and the first three people I thought of, my mother, my father, and my wife, are all gone now. It sucks being an orphan.
Finding happiness isn't a problem. I was happy tonight. I was in the ambulance with three of my EMT friends, I was relaxing in the passenger's seat on the way back from the ER, we were all laughing and joking and talking about medical stuff in EMT SPEAK and I was happy. How do you explain to people that you can be happy but still feel empty inside? I don't even try.
The unopened letters were from the evil lawyer. She's gone now. I still have one letter from her that I haven't opened. I should probably look at it. Maybe she refunded my unused retainer. My new lawyer emails me and I've opened all of his emails. My new lawyer's ok. I'm not afraid of him. I even like him.
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How do you explain to people that you can be happy but still feel empty inside?
Some of us understand this completely. We are here holding space for you.
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'Happy' isn't the same as joyful or content. So I think that's why you can feel happy but still feel empty. Happiness is a temporary response to a situation, a fleeting emotion, response to a moment or a thing or a situation. Joy and contentment come from feeling safe and secure and loved and is deeper than happiness. Happiness comes and goes. What we are seeking is joy and contentment I think, RCR has an article titled "Choose Joy" which talks about this.
You have unwittingly tapped into the very dilemma of the MLCer MBIB - replay is the attempt to chase fleeting happiness, thinking that's the answer to the emptiness inside. Unfortunately their behaviour steals away the secure joy and contenment we experienced in our relationships and it's really really hard work finding it again.
At Bd my H told me he felt like he had been just going through the motions, funnily enough that's how i felt for a long time after BD when I was doing the 'fake it til you make it' dance.
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MB, this is something I found a long time ago and wanted to share it with you.
Pleasure vs. Happiness
Happiness is not pleasure although they can appear similar. Pleasure is enjoyment of an outside stimuli. You might find pleasure in buying a new car, or in going on vacation, or having friends over for dinner, or having sex, or....the list is long on what you might enjoy experiencing. Pleasure requires an external stimuli for you to experience it. Happiness does not. Happiness is a belief about yourself and the outside world. You can be doing something you normally experience as pleasurable but not be happy! Pleasure is born from the external world, happiness is born from the internal workings of our own minds.
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I actually remind myself that my w is really my ex now.
And l hate using the term ex it just isn't right l still think of her as my wife.
But l do try to use ex now to keep myself strong bc she made herself my ex and l don't believe she'll ever come back so ex somehow helps me cope.
GD and the house doesn't surprise me she runs deep your gd b and this will be with her for years sadly, with any kids but with her moreso is my guess. And l'm sorry about the house to btw, l know how hard that decision is.
But sadly it's also about the family to and gd. here is something that might shed a little light . A few wks back l said to d l still don't know if we did the right thing selling it - but my d said, "we did dad"
It was really hard for her being there for me and her after the split and l saw it then and it broke my heart yet 3yrs later l can still see it and she tells me that. l'm glad it's gone and l'm glad she doesn't have to feel like that again.
But on the other side of the fence, l know also a lot of people here do keep the house so, maybe that was just my sitch.
l hope you make it through court ok anyway b, thank God we didn't go that way ourselves.
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MBIB,
Just following along and nodding my head.
I hate the fact that I am divorced. I go out of my way to avoid admitting it, unfortunately, I have to own up to it on official documents, it always has a bad taste. I need to file my taxes - first year as a divorced person - must stop this procrastination ::)
My answer to the question - would you take him back? is always an emphatic YES!
The people around me, who know me, have given up talking about the subject ;D They just kind of accept me and realize that I don't spend time bad mouthing my h. or playing the victim, so there is no fun to be had.
I really empathize with
The bottom line is that I simply miss my wife. I miss talking with her, I miss being with her, I miss going places with her, I miss her smile and her laugh and her touch, and I miss her caring and her concern and her love for me and our family. How do I change that?
I don't think you can change that.
It's a bit like missing a dead person, except you see them every now and again and that is what throws you for a while.
And, that is why I continue to pray for my h.
Otherwise, life goes on - the sun is shining here 8)
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Is it possible to still be in shock after almost 22 months?
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Yes, I think so. There is no timeline on grief. I imagine there's no timeline on shock, either.
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Is it possible to still be in shock after almost 22 months?
Most def' B so don't feel bad , l'm still in shock now.
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I think it is - especially because this came out of nowhere and changed your life completely. if your spouse had died you would obviously miss them for a very long time and no one would tell you that you should be over it 22 months later. In this case they thankfully didn't die but they are still no longer with you plus you have to deal with the complication that they chose to leave and all the emotions that come with that plus the resulting fallout from their being someone else, the loss of some friends, the complicated relationships that may now exist with family. It's essentially complicated grief is what we are all dealing with. In that instance I think it can take even longer to bounce back. This week with the court date looming may feel even worse. Hang in there. I am still amazed every day that this is who H and I are now. I'm 3 years post noticing that things weren't right - that all started January 2013 and 2.5 years post BD and almost 2 years since he left. It gets a bit easier every day but I still struggle to think that he's not fully MY H anymore.
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I have to talk about something but l need to use B's thread to do it for identify reasons so l hope you don't mind b and l know you won't , but l just need to get this out.
Yesterday my wifes sister just up and died . Yep , you read right.
My w didn't contact me that it was happening, my d and l had only gotten back the night before from a trip down the coast for a few days. Next morning l text d to see how she was doing as she started back at school but she says oh, we're on our way down town bc aunty s is in Hospital and they think she'll die. l'm huh ! ! !
So l text w and she explained sis had had a hemerage of some sort out of nowhere and they'll probably switch of life support after everyone has said goodbye. l was floored, she's 3yrs younger than w.
l text back saying oh sh@t my God so sorry w, but look knowing her it'll be a false alarm anyway so try to not to worry just yet for cert.- l'll explain that later.
Few hours later l text d to see how things are going and sure enough they lost her . D said she was fine, she hardly knew her but she was trying to be there for mum.
This chick was a nightmare . She'd given the whole family hell since she was a few yrs old and later in life even when her own farther was at deaths door from a major heart attack in hos[ital,, she'd turned the whole world into about her and put both the dad and mum through stuff l couldn't even describe., while they ddn't even know if he'd pull through ,the whole family was stressed and worried and scared they'd lose him. Meanwhile she's leaving her kid there and sl@tting it up all over town , coming home drunk and stoned at 5am with strange guys when her own mother was home alone and worried h might go at any second, still in hospital.
She'd only just gotten back from os you see and was staying there while she got re setup. Right through , while he was in hospital through to his first few wks out, they kicked her out in the end , the mum was worried she'd kill him.
Now this place is about mlc right , monster, and the crazy and hurt that we've all been through right , seen with our own eyes. Well, all that , had just been life with s , since she was 3 or 4, and in this last 3yrs w tells me she wouldn't talk to any member of the family and hated them all yet for 40yrs , all everyone had tried to do was love her and be good to her. All the parents had ever tried to do was understand her and be there for her, love her but, now she's gone.
l text w back saying l am so sorry , r you ok, please give my best to your mum and dad and condolences , how are they coping, .
Well she explained a little about what had happened and just said thanks .
Of course she's in shock l guess to, as much as this damn women was a night mare to them all , l guess though she was still a sister and a daughter .
l've had nothing from w today . for all l know they could all be celebrating tbh, even possibly her own parents as she'd hurt them, and hurt them , over and over , for 40yrs, she hurt everyone.
Still , l've had nothing back from w. Maybe om , if there is om , which no'one can even figure out anyway , is there for her , or maybe she's celebrating as she like the other 3 , was also hurt by the sister over and over too.
Or , maybe l'm not the man for the job anyway , l dunno , am l ?
But l've text her since to make sure she's ok and to let her know l'm here if there's anything l can do but nothing .
Maybe there's insight for us all in tis , l'm not sure . But how damn tough can a person be even if in mlc ?
lt seems , really , really , tough. And probably even still holding her ground and stance in all this and not even wanting my support anyway even after losing a sister.
Or is it just that it was this sister ?
Or is it just that om has my job now and l should just stay the hell out of it , it's not my place anymore , maybe ?
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I'm so sorry H. What a terrible thing to happen.
The family dynamics are hard to figure out. There's no saying how this will affect your W and her family. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of analysing her and speculating on what may happen from here.
You've contacted her and let her know you're thinking of her and are concerned for her, so now just step back. She's still in MLC and will probably still see it as pressure if you keep trying to contact her. She knows what a good guy you are.
Hope D is ok. What a great kid, wanting to be there for her mum.
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I agree with Chookie. You offered to be there for her, it's her choice how she copes with the loss. Don't expect her to find emotional support in you. They can't.
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I'm sorry too Hawk. For all she might have been a difficult person it is still a shock when someone dies young, her parents and your W might even feel a bit guilty if they do feel a little relieved. Who knows how this might affect your W, it will certainly be a reminder of her own mortality which can be a real challenge for an MLCer. I think your role is to provide what support is welcome. And of course being there for D - she's a tough chick I know, but a death in the family is a big deal- confusing and confronting, Her mum might not be much support so she might need you.
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Hawk, I'm sorry to hear about your SIL. If this is something you're not comfortable sharing on your thread then I'm glad you brought it here and of course everyone is welcome to comment on your situation.
I agree with LLL. There's no telling how this may affect your wife but MLCers don't do well with reminders of their own mortality. The fact that you SIL was a difficult person could make this even more difficult. As LLL said, if the family members feel relief then they will probably also feel some guilt as well but it's even more complicated than that because I think in these situations the family often hopes that some day the wayward member will settle down and they will be able to have a normal relationship with them and now that hope has also died. And we all know how difficult it is to lose our hope.
There really isn't anything that you can do for your wife unless she asks for it and she sounds like a pretty tough cookie so I'd be surprised if she reached out to you for support. It's good your daughter can be there for her and I agree once again with LLL that it's also good that you will be there for your daughter.
I doubt the OM will be there for your wife. If there even is an OM it doesn't sound like they have that kind of relationship. As far as questioning whether it's your place or not, even in a normal marriage it wouldn't be your place unless your wife were open to receiving your support. You can't give then some something they're not open to receiving.
Don't forget to take care of yourself, too. A situation like this is difficult for everyone.
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MB,
I'm going camping for a few days.
Just wanted you to know I'll be thinking about you tomorrow. Hope it all goes well.
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Thanks Thunder. Enjoy your camping trip.
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Even on THS several of my friends are divorced and they say it's not that big a deal and several others are going through the process and looking forward to having it over with. I'm not there yet. I was looking at photos of our wedding day and my wife was so happy. How did we go from that to this?
I think divorce is a very big deal.
Why do you think you need to negate how you feel about your wife, your marriage and divorce because others accept it as something that is common, the way the world just is now and that we are foolish somehow to remember the love we shared the vows we made.
To negate the reality of the many years together, our family, the love we shared would leave me feeling like those years had no meaning or value. They had 32 years of meaning and were the happiest years of my life.
We can still find peace, contentment and joy, yes and still honor what was the most significant event in our lives. Our marriages and the lives that we shared had value.
This attitude that it is no big deal, really?
Airmid stated:
Don't be broadcasting that you would take your wife back to people you hardly know.
It serves no purpose at all.
Indeed it DOES have tremendous purpose. It shows others that you don't buy into our throw away society. It shows that you are a man of honor and integrity, that you understand that your wife is suffering from something that is beyond her control. It shows that you are committed to your wife, and as long as you love her and desire her to be your wife again then feel free to express this to who ever you wish.
You do not know who you might be saying this to. Perhaps someone whose own marriage is in danger of being destroyed. I have several people in my life who love me because I will not give up on him. By telling others that you would like to reconcile one day, you make it very clear who you are, what you stand for...and you verbally proclaim your obedience to God's will regarding the sacrament of marriage.
Too many times, we shy away from speaking our truth. We are afraid of appearing foolish. You have always stated that you love your wife, that you hope that someday she will return to you and your family. You can be proud of being honest and real and not afraid to look at the world's view that everyone will be "fine" and "happier".....your actions and words speak volumes to those who are being lead astray by a world whose morals and values are lost.
STANDING is NOT STILL.
You need to keep moving forward or else you will get stuck.
My question is how does any of this keep you moving forward?
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Hawk
Just want to offer my condolences and say what everyone else has said.
I know its these situations that make you feel on the outside looking in and marginalised but you have offered support, which is all you can do.
When I lost my parents I remember reading some things on a discussion board of people in the same boat but who, unlike me, had bad childhoods and their parents were not kind, loving and caring, like mine were.
In a way their grief was worse because instead of having 'straight forward' grieving thoughts, it brought other things to the surface too, like anger at the person, sadness for the relationship that never was. etc.
I am sure your wife and her family are going through all of this and it is a sad but confusing time for them because of the life your SIL lead.
I am also sure if she needs you she will reach out to you and if she doesn't now she might later.
You can always check how things are for your daughter..... but you have shown kindness and compassion and that will be remembered.
As far as OM is concerned, try not to give him headspace. In no shape or form can he offer the same support you would have been able too or can because he hasn't the history, knowledge of your SIL, family dynamics etci and it is at times like this these things are so meaningful, because you don't want to explain the background you just want to share thoughts and stories of the person.
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Brain (MBIB)
Just want to say I am thinking of you tomorrow I cannot imagine how this all feels but I know I am about to find out and it feels me with utter sadness.
I know how much you love your wife and I know how hard this is going to be, my thoughts and prayers are with you
Take care xx
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MY
Your in my thoughts .....
Thunder
Camping ehh? Been forever have fun
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Will have to drop back and meanwhile thanks so much to everyone for the direction in my own sitch but yeah , good luck in court b , l hope you get through ok , we're all with you.
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Thinking of you too MB. Hope it goes well.
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Lost your thread so attaching
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Hawk - sorry about SIL. It will be interesting to see how w responds in the coming days. Even with the complicated relationship she was still her sister so there are likely tons of feelings there even if she chooses not to show that.
Brain - thinking of you tomorrow. Be sure not to use "honey" when you see her :). Seriously though I hope you get through it as well as can be expected. Sending lots of support.
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Also adding my prayers for tomorrow.
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Never feel bad for not wanting to be a part of or contribute to the throw away marriage mentality. Or throw away any relationship mentality. Individual happiness is all well and good, but what makes people, relationships, communities great is our caring and loyalty to others. Nothing, but nothing, beats knowing someone is there for you, and that you are there for others. Having your own "happiness" bubble can't touch it.
Nothing I can say can convey my sorrow that you, or anyone, must be forced through this. :'(
Virtual Hugs.
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I have good news, bad news, and confusing news.
The good news. D32 is seeing somebody new. He's the son of an old friend of mine. I don't know him well but his parents are very nice people, very industrious and with a lot of integrity. They've only been seeing each other for about a week and during that time he's repaired several things around her house. This is a big deal because D32's last few friends were lazy and did next to nothing to help her and it used to really bother her. This is the first guy she's seen in a long time who I think could be a keeper.
The bad news. GD14 has attracted a predator. She wanted to leave the Fire Department annual dinner last Saturday night right after finishing the meal so we left. On the way home she told me that one of the guys there, a 19 year old new recruit, had been bothering her for a long time by sending her messages. She had told him to stop and when he kept doing it at school she talked to someone and the Principal had told him to stop. But he had kept on doing it and he did it Saturday night at the dinner. Plus she said he had been staring at her and it made her very uncomfortable.
I did some checking and found this kid has a history of harassing girls after being told to leave them alone, had been observed following a 14 year old girl and trying to get her into his car, and had even harassed my good friend on the ambulance crew. I also found that there was some talk about him having been charged with sexual assault. I spoke with D32 and GD14 and found out this has been going on for quite a while. GD14 said she keeps blocking his phone number and soon after he'll call from a different one. D32 said when she worked in a local retail store the boy's father would come in to the store and pull the same stuff with her so I decided it had gone on for long enough.
After I had learned as much as I could about his background I wrote a cease and desist letter. In the letter I stated that GD14 is only 14 years old, that he had been asked to stop contacting her, yet he continued to contact her and it was causing her significant emotional distress. I told him GD14 wants him to stop and her mother wants him to stop. I also stated that the appropriate authorities had been notified and would be asked to take appropriate actions if he continued to contact GD14.
I spoke with a friend who is one of the assistant chiefs and he told me there had been some concern about bringing this kid into the FD, they had decided to take a chance, but that he was warned that if there were any problems he'd be out of the FD. My friend asked me to keep hiim updated.
The ambulance squad in most of the neighboring towns is a part of the FD but in my town we're a part of the PD. I like that because I like working for the PD, I like being on a first name basis with the local cops, and I like having the police chief for a boss. I went to see my boss today. I showed him the letter and he thought it was great. He said this kid is a real creep and that they've had 7 or 8 complaints about him. He thought the letter was great, he asked for a copy of it for his files, and he told me to keep him updated and if we have any more problems he said to let him know.
We had a fire training exercise tonight and I confronted the boy shortly after the exercise. One of my friends is a distant relative of my grandsons so I asked him to join us to witness that the boy had received the notice.This guy is about 6'5" with a sturdy build and he's a little bit crazy so i was glad he joined me. I gave the kid the letter and he played innocent, claiming that he didn't know GD14 wanted him to stop. I told him that it didn't matter, that he was being told now to stop and it had better stop. He also wanted to know if it was just between the three of us. I told him no, the fire chief and the police chief both knew what was going on and they were monitoring the situation. Now we wait and see what happens.
The confusing. D32 posted a FB banner this morning that said:
"I didn't become an EMT to get a front-row seat to other people's tragedies. I did it because I knew the world was bleeding and so was I, and somewhere inside I knew the only way to stop my own bleeding was to learn how to stop someone else's."
She also wrote some nice stuff about how proud she was that I'm her dad. The confusing part? The first person to Like this post that is very complementary towards me was the evil sister. the woman who was telling my wife two years ago that she has a right to be happy and if I didn't make her happy and this other guy did that she should be with him. Maybe I'm not the bad guy I used to be.
The fire training exercise tonight was interesting. I went into the fire tower, a two story concrete block building with a huge, smoky fire burning inside. When you go inside you wear turnout gear and an air pack and you wear a full face air mask. The gear weighs almost 50 lbs, it's hot inside, especially with all of the gear you're wearing, and the smoke is so thick you can't see anything. After I came out several of my friends asked how I liked it? I think I'd rather do that than go to divorce court tomorrow.
We have a big ladder truck and I had a chance to play with positioning the ladder. Then they put the ladder out about 50 feet with the tip around 30 feet off the ground and my friend and I climbed out to within about 10 ft. of the end. All-in-all, every little boy's fantasy day.
Tomorrow at 2:30pm is my court appointment with my honey. Thirteen hours and thirteen more minutes. Thanks to everyone for the support and prayers.
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My condolences, hawk. This is a difficult time for your W, and for you, too.
MB, sending thoughts and support your way. I wish you strength and compassion for the day.
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Thinking of you MBIB,
Wishing you luck and prayers. We are all here supporting you and hoping you get through it ok.
It's another part of this awful journey for you to face and get through - sadly - but it's not the end.
Sorry I don't have the words to make it all ok but sending you love and hugs
X
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Best of luck mate.
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I'd just like to thank everyone for their considerate responses and tips in handling my latest sitch, very much appreciated and tbh, l just wasn't sure what to do before this.
And of course to b for letting me borrow a page or two here , muchly appreciated , edit , as how can l say, l'm suspecting l'm spotted here and well, say no more.
Anyway , it's been a strange old day with the whole situation. Still no word at all from w so l'm just leaving it and l'd imagine the shock is biting.
l feel so badly for the parents of course and l think too they would have hoped that there would one day be some peace between them and d.
And, l have no clue about these days but if w is still in there, l know this will be hitting her about now and that she had deep down always hoped that sis would come around one day too.
Thanks to everyone.
PS , nice job on the stalker b.
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Hi MBIB
I haven't posted on Yr thread for a while but always follow along.
Tomorrow/today will be hard but keep in your heart that you are a fine good man MB...
Will be thinking of you even way own here in NZ.
SCx
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Somebody pinch me. I'm ready to wake up now.
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Somebody pinch me. I'm ready to wake up now.
Court is just a business transaction.
Take everything else out of the equation.
You are too far away for me to reach.
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The 13th is over for me now MBIB, it will be over for you soon too and you will be past this day. I hope it went... Ok... Please allow yourself time to react and then try to find some calm balance.
I just realised if the 13th if April is over it must be the 14th of April and therefore my "should have been" 26th wedding anniversary. Time for my wedding day diamond earrings and my own celebration of a happy day.
Re the stalker: it frustrates me that as a society we tend towards dealing with the inappropriate behaviour of men by controlling the behaviour of women so its brilliant that you took action that focussed on the guy rather than expecting your granddaughter to change the way she lives her life. It's disappointing though that it takes another man telling him to stop before he sees his behaviour has consequences, rather than listening to the girl telling him to stop. The woman's voice remains unheard and not respected. She shouldn't need to send another man in to rescue her but I'm so pleased your GD said something and didn't try to handle this on her own.
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MB, just checking as part of your support crew. How did today go? Let us know you're ok.
LLL, hope you're ok too. Pop on those gorgeous earrings. :)
H, has your W found you on HS? How do you know?
Take care MB. X
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Cookie,
My thoughts on Brain, he's processing from the stressful day. I've had him in my thoughts and prayers all day too! I did the same thing the day of my hearing, so I get it.
He'll be back when he's ready.
Hope things went well today my long haired friend! Lol
Big hug,
CH
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Hope all is well. Thinking of you. ..
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I am still married!
I suppose the fact that I take such great pleasure in writing this indicates that I am stuck or standing still or something but I take great pleasure in the way it makes me feel and the way it sounds when I say it.
I didn't mean to keep everyone in suspense. It's been a busy day. After court I stopped by my BIL and SIL's house to share the good news, then I came home and went for a 7 mile run that included 4 400s at about a 6:00 per mile pace and 4 800s at about a 6:40 per mile pace. Afterwards I stopped to check in on D32 who is in bed with the flu and to give her the good news. I just finished a late supper and I still have weights to lift but there were lots of crazy making things that occurred today so I'll try to find some time to post about them later after I've had a chance to process them.
Thanks to everyone for thinking about me and supporting me. Today has been a rough day. Before I go I want to comment on LLL's post because it touched a sore spot for me.
Re the stalker: it frustrates me that as a society we tend towards dealing with the inappropriate behaviour of men by controlling the behaviour of women so its brilliant that you took action that focussed on the guy rather than expecting your granddaughter to change the way she lives her life. It's disappointing though that it takes another man telling him to stop before he sees his behaviour has consequences, rather than listening to the girl telling him to stop. The woman's voice remains unheard and not respected. She shouldn't need to send another man in to rescue her but I'm so pleased your GD said something and didn't try to handle this on her own.
I see this more as a case of the strong abusing the weak until somebody stronger steps in. I think this kid is like all men who abuse women. At his core you'll find a bully and a coward who views women as being weaker than him. But the weak, male or female, are regularly abused and exploited by those who are stronger, whether physically or financially or in some other way, and I abhor this. It's repellent and it's why we have laws and police. And, in some cases, grandpas.
The woman's voice remains unheard and not respected.
Too often this is true. I raised two daughters and a granddaughter and I dearly love all of them and they deserve a lot better. I think if God would have realized how things would turn out she would have made some different choices when she made men and women.
LLL, It's still the 13th here but I'll be sending good thoughts your way for the rest of today and for all of the 14th. I'm sorry you're not celebrating your anniversary properly with your husband and family.
Ok, I'm going to get off my soapbox that LLL put me on and go lift some weights so I'll be prepared when the next lowlife comes along.
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You sound great MBIB. Glad this day is behind you!
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No howling then MB! Sleep well. :)
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So happy for you, MB!!!
Not even remotely the same thing, but I had an appointment with the vet today, that I was not looking forward to, either. My H and I took our doggy together.
Ended up being a good connection day with H. And I still have the doggy, too!
So I guess today is the day of gifting ....another day! :-)
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No howling tonight Chookie. I'm off to bed and I have a pile of unfolded laundry to keep me company.
Onward, I'm glad you had a good day with your wife and your doggy is still with you. That's the oddest thing about today. I had a really good day with my wife today and I believe she had a really good day with me. At divorce court. :P
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It's can be all so weirdly surreal can't it!
My H and I went and had a really pleasant coffee and chat after our financial mediation session.
We sat and chatted quite amicably over our D's hospital bed last October,me little realising a process server was looking for me to serve H's divorce papers
Too, too weird.
But I'm glad you are still married and that it was a "good" day
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I am still married!
I suppose the fact that I take such great pleasure in writing this indicates that I am stuck or standing still or something but I take great pleasure in the way it makes me feel and the way it sounds when I say it.
I am so pleased it went well Brain and I so get your sentiments, as in my case, every day that passes without divorce papers being lodged, I am thankful for the same reasons
I think if God would have realized how things would turn out she would have made some different choices when she made men and women.
God as a woman! ....That made me smile Brain x
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The mans a lot happier than he was yesterday so whatever happened l like it 8)
l think so chook , something slipped out could only mean one thing. Wish l knew how to fix it .
Anyway just a bit of a report to all on the sitch with sis, hoping it's incognito.
Went over for d today , early , and w had come home early l think to catch me. Long talks and laughs and cursing the b@tch , and sadness, and tears , w's words, a crazy whirlwind of emotions in the whole family - how do you feel when someone like that goes yet she's a daughter and a sister, no one knows what to feel, but the parents of course are in a bad way , l feel terrible that they never found peace with her before this.
But , l think w's just been processing bc as soon as l walked in everything came out and though sadly l guess under the circumstances of course but , our long history with sis was there and l could see w was really relieved that l'd turned up and we bounced all about over the 20yrs we'd both spent taring our hair out along with everyone else over this women. So, we might be divorced but at least l know l'm not forgotten.
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I am very happy that you were able to be there and that your wife turned to you to help her process her sister's passing. I know you've been in a bad place lately, Hawk, and I hope this eases that a little for you. Prayers going out for you and your family.
I think if God would have realized how things would turn out she would have made some different choices when she made men and women.
God as a woman! ....That made me smile Brain x
Why? Or maybe I should ask, why not?
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Glad to hear B and it makes me feel good to say my H and yes I'm married ....
Best of luck
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Hawk, I'm glad you were included. I had a sister who sounds similar to your SIL, and when she died, there was some struggle not to deify her. Remembering the good and bad is important, I think, as honesty about who she was and why helps put us on the path to forgiveness.
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Thanks B and Medusa , appreciated, l am really glad she let it out, l was really worried about her. She's confused and riddled with all sorts of crap about just what to feel and she needed me to unload bc l knew.
You know it's so weird in that way Medusa , we were asking ourselves what good could we remember and the answer was well, she never hassled us near as much as she did everyone else , that's about all we could come up with so we're going with that 8)
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Well l'll be damned. w told me she shared our convo with everyone and they all had a good laugh and dumped one helluva load of guilt at the same time.
Maybe they miss Hawkie after all. ;D
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Of course they do! Onya H! ;D
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Of course they miss you Hawk! It was your wife's dumb idea not theirs. I glad she turned to you for support.
Brain - glad the hearing went ok.
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Hawk, I can't imagine why they wouldn't miss you.
The last couple of days have been good ones. I've been attending an EMS conference on pediatric emergencies and I've learned a lot about working with sick or injured kids. Kids are scary because they're bodies are very good at compensating when there's something wrong so if you're not watching the signs very closely it will appear like they're doing a good job of holding their own, then suddenly their bodies can no longer compensate and they'll quickly crash and you'll be doing CPR on a kid who's gone into respiratory and then cardiac arrest. During the past two days we learned what to watch for and how to treat it.
It was also nice because I was able to spend two days with a half dozen people from the ambulance crew. It's sad to say but they're the closest friends I have. It was also nice because, even though we all kind of stayed together, we also split into pairs and my favorite from the squad paired up with me. It was nice that she felt comfortable enough with me that she chose to hang with me. It's also surprising since she's almost 40 years younger than me.
There's nothing weird or inappropriate about it. Its just a friendship. I talk to both her and her fiance at church and I think they're a great couple. But she's smart and funny and conscientious and she's a great EMT and she gets my sense of humor which makes her a little bit weird. And she's a runner. Anyway, all I'm saying is that it was nice being able to spend some time with somebody who isn't family who seemed to enjoy my company.
Court last Wednesday was bizarre. I got off the elevator and took a seat in a narrow hallway 3 seats away from my wife. She was looking down at her phone while I was taking a seat. After a couple of minutes she looked up and said "Oh, hi." This was kind of strange because I'm pretty sure she knew I was there. She's very observant and rarely misses anything. After a while a clerk came out and asked if our lawyers were there. After we said they weren't and she had left, my wife mentioned it was pretty good that we were there but our lawyers weren't. I mention this because this was the only conversation we had until my lawyer came in and took me off to the side for conference.
After we'd finished discussing what my position was going to be, he left to talk to my wife's lawyer. As he was leaving he told me that my wife was right there and I could go and talk with her if I wanted to. That was so different from my first lawyer who used to tell me not to talk to my wife and who wouldn't believe anything I told her and told me my wife was lying to me.
I thought about it and realized he was right, there was no reason why I shouldn't go and talk to my wife so I went back out, took a seat, and struck up a conversation with her. I started out with a fairly neutral topic and eventually I talked to her about the items our lawyers were negotiating as well as discussing some family stuff with her. It was bizarre because we had a nice conversation and several times one of us would say something that caused both of us to burst out laughing. Meanwhile, our lawyers were in a room nearby negotiating the terms of our divorce.I'll list some of the highlights from our conversation. It was pretty interesting but it continues to leave me confused.
I asked her if the payments I was sending to her were okay, did she have enough money? She responded that she has plenty of money.
I told her that I still didn't know whether I'd be keeping the house or not. She responded by saying "There must be something we can do so that WE (my emphasis) can keep the house."
I told her that nobody comes over to the house anymore. That it's just me there all by myself, all of the time. She said that summer's coming so pretty soon the kids will be coming over all of the time to use the swimming pool.
Our camper has some water damage due to a manufacturing defect (long story) and I told her I didn't know how to sell the camper because I didn't think anyone would want to buy it with the water damage so I'd have to try to wholesale it to a dealer and we'd probably get next to nothing for it. She asked me why I was planning on selling it, why didn't I keep it? I just looked at her, then I told her I don't have a truck to move it with, she has the truck. Then she told me that I can take the truck any time I need it to move the camper. I didn't mention to her that the other issue is that I have to pay her for her half of the camper if I want to keep it and money is kind of tight.
She isn't happy with her job. I asked her how she likes her new job and she was quite bitter. She's really upset with her boss who she says doesn't like her. She used to get along with everyone and everyone loved her so this seemed pretty strange.
She still seems to be depressed. Anger and resentment seemed to be just below the surface and made an appearance a couple of times but it wasn't directed at me. It was directed at others who she was not happy with.
She seems fixated on letting me know that she's not on FB anymore. She asked when my next race is and I told her next Sunday in the city where D35 lives. She asked me if I have let D35 know and I said not directly but I've posted it on FB. Her response was to tell me she's not on FB anymore because she can't handle all of the drama.
I discussed the household items with her and told her that she could have what she wanted form the house; that I wouldn't stand in her way. I mentioned several things I thought she might want and she told me that she didn't want any of them.
I'm sure there's more but that's probably the major points. Eventually my lawyer returned and we left to discuss what had happened with my wife's lawyer. He told me we had another court date on June 16 and the courts will expect us to reach an agreement then. I hate New York's courts. I don't know why they're in such a hurry to see us divorced.
Don't beat me up for this but I felt disloyal while I was telling my lawyer what we had talked about. And I had mentioned to my lawyer that I thought it was only fair that we split my wife's retirement plan if we're going to split mine but I feel badly about having him bring that up.
The impression I've gotten is that she wants everything to stay the same except without her and I can't help but wonder why.
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The short and simple answer to your question MB is that your wife is still in crisis and wants everything (including you) exactly where she left it!
Hugs
X
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Brain - do you have any theories as to why she might want things to stay the same? I've got 2 thoughts - 1 might be that unconsciously she hopes to return to it all some day. The other is that she feels some guilt for blowing up your life and doesn't want to be responsible for you losing stuff you held dear. You know I think the "we" matters but if the house no longer makes you happy then it may be something to consider. Can you rent it out so its not totally gone while you decide what you want to do with it?
I am glad you guys talked. In the end - how ever this turns out - being able to communicate with her will make life easier since you do still share family.
I'm so glad you had a pleasant weekend. That fact about the kids compensating is super scary as a parent but it does explain why things can take a turn for the worst so fast with kids. It makes me sad to see how surprised you are that people enjoy spending time with you - it's apparent to me tat you are a funny, caring man. What's not to enjoy?
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Thanks Chook, rt and b for that nice of you to say,
And l agree with rt to and don't know why that would surprise you b but we take a kicking in all this and l know l felt no confidence in that sort of thing either earlier, maybe it's something like that.
Sadly , personally l agree with the others and the all just where she left it thing, .
l'm sorry there's no change in her direction it really surprised me tbh, but sadly now she's just reminding me of my w, l think they all read the same manual .
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Brain - do you have any theories as to why she might want things to stay the same? I've got 2 thoughts - 1 might be that unconsciously she hopes to return to it all some day. The other is that she feels some guilt for blowing up your life and doesn't want to be responsible for you losing stuff you held dear.
I hope for the first option and fear that it's more likely that it's the second.
It makes me sad to see how surprised you are that people enjoy spending time with you - it's apparent to me tat you are a funny, caring man. What's not to enjoy?
I had lots of friends when I was young (a long time ago) but only a few close friends and over the years they've moved away so my wife and family, especially my wife, became my whole social life. And while people have always liked me, they weren't really close to me, but people have always loved my wife and gravitated to her. I think maybe because of the PTSD for a long time I've kept people at a distance emotionally. My wife and granddaughter and to a lesser extent my daughters were the only ones I let get close to me. Now I'm paying for that.
The final speaker at the conference talked about the characteristics of EMS personnel. He stated that 90% of the population becomes very uncomfortable when something happens that causes a fight or flight response but that EMS personnel fall into the 10% of the population who are adrenaline junkies. I can't disagree with that but it's funny because 2 years ago I was part of the 90%. I was a boring, slightly neurotic 55 year old, very careful and conservative, rarely even exceeding the speed limit and always wearing my seat belt. Now I walk around in the back of an ambulance that's speeding down the highway, at times going as fast as 90-100 mph, and don't even think about it. And I've gone back to wondering who am I and why am I here?
It's funny because I was a wild child when I was young. I didn't expect to live to see 30 and had good reason to feel that way. I totaled my first car when I was 18 years old. Then I met my wife and I really settled down. I scaled back the partying, quit riding motorcycles, quit driving fast cars and road racing, and slowly became more and more neurotic. I started enjoying life and started to fear death. I really loved my life with my wife and family. Now I'm back to being fearless. I seem to have found a cure for neuroticism. Maybe I should write a paper.
Something I've noticed that may be strange. I've read other LBSes posting about not being able to remember their marriages and their life with the MLCer because everything that happened after BD had replaced the older memories. I can't seem to remember much that's happened since BD but it seems like I can remember every detail of our marriage and reminders are everywhere.
Time to get cleaned up and get out of here. I'm taking the Mustang out on the track for a few laps this afternoon at Watkins Glen International Raceway then I'm going to drive on up to the city.
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MB,
From everything you have said I think you did the right thing talking to your W.
The conversation seems to have went well. No anger towards you. Plus she does seem to care that you are not getting screwed in the settlement.
Right now that is a big plus. So many divorces go very badly. One trying to up the other and it creates resentment.
If you two can remain communicating this way I see a much better chance of a reconcilement down the road.
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It's funny because I was a wild child when I was young. I didn't expect to live to see 30 and had good reason to feel that way. I totaled my first car when I was 18 years old. Then I met my wife and I really settled down. I scaled back the partying, quit riding motorcycles, quit driving fast cars and road racing, and slowly became more and more neurotic. I started enjoying life and started to fear death. I really loved my life with my wife and family. Now I'm back to being fearless. I seem to have found a cure for neuroticism. Maybe I should write a paper.
Interesting track record! I have no theories about it, but it's interesting. I envy you your life doing the medical emergenices things. Sounds like you have great team-mates and it is crucial work that must bring a real sense of achievement.
I'm glad the day in court went OK and that your wife is not cleaning you out. Who knows what she wants? And they do say some have to lose everything before they wake up.
I just don't know any more, Brain. I'm baffled by the whole thing.
Be great if you could keep the house.
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Something I've noticed that may be strange. I've read other LBSes posting about not being able to remember their marriages and their life with the MLCer because everything that happened after BD had replaced the older memories. I can't seem to remember much that's happened since BD but it seems like I can remember every detail of our marriage and reminders are everywhere.
I know I am only a year into all of this but I remember everything about my marriage and the slightest thing can cause me to be quite weepy, out of nowhere.
I really miss him like he left for work this morning
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Something I've noticed that may be strange. I've read other LBSes posting about not being able to remember their marriages and their life with the MLCer because everything that happened after BD had replaced the older memories. I can't seem to remember much that's happened since BD but it seems like I can remember every detail of our marriage and reminders are everywhere.
I know I am only a year into all of this but I remember everything about my marriage and the slightest thing can cause me to be quite weepy, out of nowhere.
I really miss him like he left for work this morning
I am five years four months into this and I can testify - these last five years have been difficult and full of "toil and tears", yet I normally do not dwell on the negative and the good times of my married years, by far, surpass the acknowledgement that the past few years have been rather sad... Maybe I am just a "Pollyanna" ::) The memories don't really make me cry any more, they make me smile fondly, laugh outright sometimes!
And yes, it often seems like he left yesterday :o maybe that is just me :P
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I must be the odd man out here.
Not that I don't remember a lot of happy times in our marriage, I do, but I seem to think more about the happy times we spend together now....or even by myself, if that makes any sense.
I'll never forget the feelings after bd. It was a terrible, confusing, painful time in my life but somehow I feel it happened for a reason.
I don't know about my X but I feel I have changed for the better. I am more confident than I was before. I guess I'm happier with myself, in general. Much more than I was 5 years ago.
Maybe that would never have happened if he hadn't had his crisis.
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Maybe it seems that I am not able to feel happy now - that is not true, I have many moments of joy too! I really think that the best is yet to come. Maybe that is the advantage of having reached the pits of despair way back in the beginning of all this. I actively choose to think of the good times, I am an irrepressible half full personality ;D and like you Thunder, that boosts my confidence, which took an enormous beating at BD.
It is a beautiful sunny day here in Brazil 8)
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Hi Brain,
Just joining, I've got a lot of reading to catch up with, so far I'm very saddened for you, your children & grandchildren.
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Thanks for joining SierraStar. I forgot to mention on your thread how much I like your name. I have a very good friend whose RL first name is Sierra. Another young girl from the ambulance squad.
Here's something odd. I was out for a run yesterday afternoon and I passed a friend of mine from church who was walking with her 19yo daughter and a couple of their friends. When I stopped at D32's house after my run she told me our friend had written to her to tell her that they had seen me running and her daughter said that I was such a nice little man that she wanted to take me home with her. ???
This girl might be 5'2" tall with her hair up and I'm 5'11" tall and while I only weigh around 150 lbs. it's mostly muscle so I don't understand the "nice little man" comment. Still, I'm not inclined to complain when a member of the opposite sex indicates in interest in taking me home. ;)
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Lol. So interesting that she would refer to you as a nice "little" man.
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What a strange comment for her to have made, MB! :o
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Yeah, I only wrote about it to illustrate how weird my life is these days.
I enjoyed myself at the racetrack. The track is a road racing course, not a circle track like Nascar, so there were lots of switchbacks and S-curves and uphills and downhills and accelerating and braking. With all of the corners and other cars to pay attention to I didn't have much time to look at the speedometer but one time when I glanced down I was going 80 mph (130 kph). I managed to get the tires squealing a bit going around the corners. What an adrenaline rush! If I could do that a couple of times a day I could quit taking AD pills.
Today should have been a good day. I picked up GD14 tonight and took her with me to the fire hall for training night but I misread the calendar and there wasn't anything going on tonight so I took her out for pizza and ice cream. It was the first time we've gone anywhere together in a long time so it was nice but at the end of the day it just feels like a grey day and soon I'll go to bed so I can get up tomorrow and go through another grey day.
Tomorrow is my oldest daughter and youngest grandchild's birthday. They were born on the same day at the same time 28 years apart. The time of birth recorded on both birth certificates is exactly the same, 5:38am. I was really excited about driving my wife to the hospital for the birth of our first baby but I was out of town that day on business and when I got home she was already at the hospital in the delivery room. When I went in to see her she told me to get out, she wanted her mother, so I spent the night in the waiting room with a friend smoking cigars. My wife was less than 3 months past her 18th birthday.
Her second pregnancy I was in the Air Force and we were living in Biloxi, MS 1200 miles from home. She was 3 or 4 months pregnant when the baby spontaneously aborted on Halloween evening. Her sister came down and accompanied her back home so she could be with her mother. She was 3 months short of her 20th birthday.
The third time was another success. I was still in the Air Force and we were living 1300 miles from home in Grand Forks, ND. Her mother was a long way away so I was allowed into the delivery room but I almost missed it. When we arrived at the hospital they took her into the delivery room and took me into another room to put on a surgical gown and mask. The baby came so quickly that they came in before I had gotten ready and told me to hurry or I was going to miss it. My wife was just 21 years old and she had her tubes tied before she left the hospital so she wouldn't have to ever go through childbirth again.
We were present and my wife was in the delivery room for the births of four of our five grandchildren. We spent two weeks living at D35's house waiting for her first daughter to be born. We were able to do that because we were both on summer break but it was fall and we were back to work when her second daughter was due and D35 waited too long before she called to let us know the baby was coming. We live 90 minutes away and we arrived about 60 minutes after the baby was born. That was the only one whose birth we missed.
I wonder what my wife is doing tonight. I wonder if she's sitting there with the OM reminiscing about all of the good times they've enjoyed together and with our family over the last 38 years. I wonder if she's thinking about me staying up all night long in the waiting room 36 years ago waiting and worrying about her and the baby. I wonder if she's thinking about all of the birthdays we celebrated with that little girl. I wonder if she remembers that we were supposed to be together until death parted us. Neither of us is dead so I don't understand why we're not together tonight. Sometimes it feels like I've died but I know that I haven't really.
I'm not feeling well tonight. I think I'm coming down with something. I'm going to go to bed early but I have to stay up for at least another 8 minutes so I can wish D35/36 a happy birthday. I think I'll treat myself to an extra large dish of ice cream tonight. I'll run it off at the half marathon on Sunday.
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Those are all such good memories, MB.
Hold onto them as good memories.
As hard as it is, I hope that you won't let the darker parts of what is today colour the bright days in your past, or the brighter ones ahead for you.
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They are still happy memories andit's right to acknowledge then and reminisce.
Thank you for sharing the stories of your children's births. Your wife was very young and far from home. I imagine it may have been traumatic for her, and that stays with you even if you love being a mum after the fact. I think she probably has a lot to work through and so your gift to her is to give her the time and space to do that, all while continuing to love her and honour the memories of your life together.
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How are you today Brain?
Did the sadness settle down a little bit for you?
I don't know about you, but the times when I feel that way, I let the feelings flow over me, I stopped fighting them because when I did, it made me feel 10X worse.
After all, it is what it is, we are absolutely going to have those times when we're sad & instead of doing XYZ to "get over it", embrace it as part of the process...just promise you won't stay in the sad for too long.
We're all here for you to lift you up when it feels like you can't do it by yourself.
BTW, I chose my name years ago, it's due to my love for the Sierras in CA.
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I can't hold on to me,
Wonder what's wrong with me.
Evanescence "Lithium"
Thanks for checking on me Sierra. I've heard the Sierras are beautiful. We drove over the Donner Pass traveling from Sacramento to Reno but that's all I've seen of the Sierras.
My wife and I go back to court on June 16th. My lawyer told me the court is going to want us to reach a settlement then so I'm 56 days away from D-Day. I'm running the Buffalo Marathon on May 29th so I'll have 17 days between the marathon and D-Day. After the marathon I'm supposed to take it easy for a while to give my body a chance to recover. I'll be on summer break so I'm thinking about going on a road trip with the Mustang.
There are only 3 states in the continental 48 that I haven't set foot in; Iowa, New Mexico, and Arizona, so I think I should visit them. I could drive through Iowa on my way west. Maybe I could stop at the American Pickers store. We visited their Nashville store in December 2013 on the last road trip I ever took with my wife.
Next I could stop in Denver and visit a friend who lives there and then drive south to Santa Fe. Quite a few of the world's best distance runners train in the Santa Fe area because of the high altitude. I've never been to the Grand Canyon so that would be a logical place to go after Santa Fe.
I'd like to see the fountains at the Bellagio so the next stop would have to be Vegas and then on into the Sierras. It would be great if I could make it Yosemite and see the locations where Ansel Adams made so many great photos. From there I would like to head over to Monterey and drive down the Pacific Coast. I drove the northern Pacific coast from Oregon down to San Francisco when my wife and I drove cross country back in 2012 or 2013.
Next, for a long time I've wanted to see the 19th century London Bridge which is no longer in London. Now it's located in Lake Havasu City in Arizona. From there I could head for El Paso. I've never been to Mexico so I think a quick trip across the border would be merited.
My next destination would be San Antonio, TX. We spent a wonderful summer there in 1981 and I'd like to go back and see the River Walk. Then it would be time to head north to Memphis and Graceland. While there maybe I could locate someone and throw her into the Mississippi River for StrongCurrent. Then I could travel east to Dollywood in Pigeon Forge, north to Pittsburgh to see my brother and from there it would be just a short trip home. 6,981 miles. Two oil changes. I'll have to hope the price of gas stays low.
That's the vision. Next step is to start the detailed planning to see if it will work.
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Awesome. Sounds like a wonderful plan. While at the grand canyon, if its not too far out of your way, head up to four points. Not too terribly interesting, but its kind of neat to see a single spot where you stand in four states simultaneously.
If you stop by Memphis, we might can get together for a bit. I work there. Never been to Graceland though.
Now you talk of Pigeon Forge...hell, I might jump in the Stang with you and NEVER GO BACK to Memphis! LOL The Great Smokey Mountains are the one place on this entire earth I have ALWAYS wanted to live. Yes, at some point we all have dreams of "running away" from our lives (even us LBSers), but that has always been a lifelong dream of mine.
I've said it before a long time ago in the last "meetup" thread, but if you make it out that way you ABSOLUTELY have to go to Cades Cove. Absolutely my favorite spot on this entire rock.
-T
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Hey MBIB,
I love your plan!! I guess I have to plan some road trips too - except I don't have the wheels to do it :(
Who knows? I might just win the lottery ;D
I love driving, too
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Great plan! You could drive up the Pacific Coast, and hop across the northern border, too. ;)
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MB,
Great idea! I wish I could do a roadtrip but the horses can't feed themselves.
Now that the snow has melted the weather is CO. has turned pretty nice. It's supposed to be really nice for the next couple of weeks, not sure after that. But it is CO. if you don't like the weather wait an hour, it will change. I.E. the storm last week, we went from 70 degree weather one day to 16 inches of snow the next!
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Wow that trip sounds fantastic! Why not? The open road is full of possibilities and somehow that is strengthening
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On your way up from Tn, on 75 you could stop and visit me in Kentucky. I live right near the highway close to Lexington. The Kentucky Horse Park is a neat place to visit!
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Sounds like it could be just what the doctor ordered B , hope you get around to it mate .
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That sounds like a pretty amazing trip to me, there is just something about driving out in the desert, during a warm summer night, while blasting some 70's rock, that's paradise right there for me.
The Grand Canyon...the pictures & movies do not do it justice.
Have you thought about going to Monument Valley, on the Arizona-Utah border.
How about making a stop at all the famous places movies have been made on your trip?
That would be so much!
If you make it down to TX, I would recommend NOT crossing the border at El Paso to go into Juarez...not a nice place to cross.
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I went to Arizona with my best friend, her son and my daughter several years ago. We flew to Mesa and visited her brother. Then we rented a convertible mustang and drove it up to flagstaff and went to the Grand Canyon. It was awesome! The funny thing was it was 80 degrees in Mesa and 70s in Flagstaff. We stayed in Flagstaff for 2 days. Later on the day we left, it snowed there.
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I like your trip plan. :)
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Hmmmm, have you ever seen the movie "Gumball Rally"?
A few quotes:
Bannon: [Answering telephone] Hi, Sam.
Prof. Samuel Graves - Cobra Team: Bannon?
Bannon: It's on, we're go.
Prof. Samuel Graves - Cobra Team: [about the Gumball Rally] Look, I've been giving this matter a lot of thought, and... look, you don't have anything to lose. I mean, to you this thing is just a stunt! I've got a position at this university. I've got a shot at tenure... all I have to do is stay out of trouble a couple more years, I'll be set for life. I can't risk that!
Bannon: It's not a risk... it's a challenge.
and my absolute favorite quote probably from any movie:
Franco: And now my friend, the first-a rule of Italian driving.
[Franco rips off his rear-view mirror and throws it out of the car]
Franco: What's-a behind me is not important.
You know that your friend in Denver also has a very neat 2 seater convertible ;D Perhaps different LBSers could meet you along the way and accompany you on various parts of this journey...oh dear I just saw another quote that made me giggle:
Jane - Porsche Team: If you can catch me, you can have me!
oh MY!
Remember that at altitude, your car doesn't go quite as fast.
Awesome plan MBIB!!!
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The road trip plan sounds awesome. I'm sorry you are feeling gray. The memories are beautiful and special ones and I'm pretty sure she's thinking of the same ones. At least remembering the birth of her daughter and grand. Whether she likes it or not you will always be intimately linked to those memories.
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Thanks for the feedback regarding the trip. I may have gotten a little carried away. I was having so much fun planning the trip that I forgot I would be going by myself. I like Hope and T's suggestion that I stop for a visit.
I came home from work tonight expecting to get some work done so I can take off this weekend for Sunday's half marathon and spend both Saturday and Sunday in the city. I went for a nice, short run then started making a taco salad for supper. Before I finished preparing it D32 showed up with GS10. She wanted to know if I could tell her how to get GS10 into the same hospital GD14 was in last October. She told me she can't control him any more and he keeps threatening to kill himself and then she showed me pictures he sent to a friend of himself holding a knife to his own throat.
I don't know what D32 expected from me. She knows perfectly well that she needs to take him to the ER and they'll decide whether or not to send him. I tried to talk with him but there's no talking with him when he gets into a mood. I think what she really wanted was gas money. At least that was something I was able to help with.
Then the phone rang before I had a chance to eat anything. GD14 was upset because she was home watching GS8 and she had a meeting at the church she wanted to go to so I told her I'd be right there. So I quickly ate, picked up GD14 and GS8, dropped her off at church, and took GS8 to McDonald's for an ice cream cone and a walk. Then we went back and picked up GD14 and I took them both home.
This is where it gets interesting. After we got to their house I learned that GD14 was home by herself this morning because her mother was at the hospital with her boyfriend. He had emergency gall bladder surgery yesterday and this was the first I heard about it. Then GD14 told me that grandma picked her up this morning and took her to get lunch. She said grandma's boss was so mean yesterday that grandma didn't want to go to work today. She did go in but she did what had to be done, left early, and went to see GD14.
This is crazy. I need to go for another run but it's dark outside. Maybe I should run away. I could pick up T and we could go to Cades Cove.
Xyzcf's post just popped up. That 2 seat convertible sounds pretty cool. I like the rear-view mirror quote too. The rear-view mirrors on the Mustang weren't relevant on the track last Sunday because there was only one car that could be seen behind me after the first lap and he wasn't close.
Remember that at altitude, your car doesn't go quite as fast.
Yeah but what goes up must come down. Maybe I'll have time to install one of these.
http://www.andysautosport.com/products/sts__0510MV640ST-T.html (http://www.andysautosport.com/products/sts__0510MV640ST-T.html)
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If you go to Cades cove may as well pick me up i can meet you there as I live 1 hour away ...I'm just a country gal and i love it
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W doesn't usually see kids and grandkids right? If so, I'd say it's a good sign that she was having a tough time at work and chose to spend time with them to feel better. I love that you had an ice cream with GS - those little things are the memories that matter in the long run.
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I went out with the ambulance at 1:30 last night. I was able to check on GS10 and D32 while I was at the ER. Got home and GD14 called at 2:30. She was alone with GS8 and heard a scary noise behind the house so I went to their house and went for a walk around the back yard. Nothing scary was located. I was afraid it might have been a skunk!
GD14 said she'd called her mother and GS10 was sleeping in the ER and D32 was on her way home to get a couple of hours of sleep so I kept GD14 company until D32 arrived. After I left GD14 wrote a nice post on FB about how lucky she is to have a grandpa she can call in the middle of the night when she hears a scary noise. I wrote back and told her to go to bed and get some sleep. :)
Back out at 0820 this morning with the ambulance for a bad call. I drove this morning. We weren't even out of town before we got a second call and had to swing by the ambulance garage and drop off a couple of people so they could go out with our second ambulance. I drove through police radar on the expressway this morning going 90mph. Glad the lights and siren were going. Our patient was still alive when we dropped him at the ER this morning. While there I checked on D32 and GS10. He'll be taking an hour long ambulance ride at three this afternoon to the hospital GD14 was in last October. Last night D32 noticed light cut marks on his left arm.
I have a dental bridge on my left bottom molars that my dentist removed a couple of months ago, patched one of the anchor teeth, then reinstalled. Its hurting again so I've been favoring that side. Plus, tension goes straight to my jaws so I've been grinding my teeth. Now I think my jaw muscles are spasming. It feels like that side of my face is on fire. Imagine the worst toothache you've ever had then add to that the worst earache and the worst headache. I'm pretty good at ignoring pain but I can't ignore this.
I called my dentist this morning while at the ER but he's on vacation until Tuesday and the message on his machine said to call another dentist and leave a voicemail if it's an emergency so I called and got a message that her mailbox is full. So I called my doctor and was told she's just back from vacation and the first appointment for urgent matters is next Friday so I'm treating my jaw with heat and cold and ibuprofen. I'm going to go check on GD14 and GS8 in a little while and then go for a run and see if I can get some endorphins to kick in but I may be in the ER myself later today.
Last night I cried. When I got home from D32's house I went on FB and found that one of the first things my young EMT friend did after she got back from our EMS run was to PM me on FB to see if I was ok because she said that I seemed kind of quiet last night. I was very touched. I'm really lucky to have a friend like her. :)
I don't know what kind of a day my wife is having today but I miss her. 55 days to DDay.
It occurred to me after I posted this that this may be hard to believe so I thought I'd add that I'm not imaginative enough or awake enough to make this stuff up. This is what my life has become.
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I'll be on summer break so I'm thinking about going on a road trip with the Mustang.
There are only 3 states in the continental 48 that I haven't set foot in; Iowa, New Mexico, and Arizona, so I think I should visit them. I could drive through Iowa on my way west. Maybe I could stop at the American Pickers store. We visited their Nashville store in December 2013 on the last road trip I ever took with my wife.
Next I could stop in Denver and visit a friend who lives there and then drive south to Santa Fe. Quite a few of the world's best distance runners train in the Santa Fe area because of the high altitude. I've never been to the Grand Canyon so that would be a logical place to go after Santa Fe.
I'd like to see the fountains at the Bellagio so the next stop would have to be Vegas and then on into the Sierras. It would be great if I could make it Yosemite and see the locations where Ansel Adams made so many great photos. From there I would like to head over to Monterey and drive down the Pacific Coast. I drove the northern Pacific coast from Oregon down to San Francisco when my wife and I drove cross country back in 2012 or 2013.
Next, for a long time I've wanted to see the 19th century London Bridge which is no longer in London. Now it's located in Lake Havasu City in Arizona. From there I could head for El Paso. I've never been to Mexico so I think a quick trip across the border would be merited.
My next destination would be San Antonio, TX. We spent a wonderful summer there in 1981 and I'd like to go back and see the River Walk. Then it would be time to head north to Memphis and Graceland. While there maybe I could locate someone and throw her into the Mississippi River for StrongCurrent. Then I could travel east to Dollywood in Pigeon Forge, north to Pittsburgh to see my brother and from there it would be just a short trip home. 6,981 miles. Two oil changes. I'll have to hope the price of gas stays low.
That's the vision. Next step is to start the detailed planning to see if it will work.
Wow! Go for it, Brain. It would be amazing. I need to read the rest of your latest posts carefully, as I haven't done so yet (please bear that in mind), but the above caught my eye, and I'm a little excited for you. I think types like you and I really make forward movement when we see the future, a new future that gets us excited, in our mind's eye. The challenge is keeping the vista alive and real. But planning does that. And the trip will be awesome.
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I went straight from my run to the fire hall for a fire call. Afterwards I stopped to check on the grandkids and GD14 told me that grandma had been there and had taken them to McDonalds for lunch.
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Hmmmm - grandma seems to be around quite a bit more now than she used to be. I love that.
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Reconnecting starts with others first and the MLCer will be last in line. So they say.
And the line could be pretty long too.
I'm not saying she is necessarily reconnecting but it is certainly interesting that she is spending more time than usual around the grandchildren. I would take it as a good sign. If nothing else, she wants them in her life and that's good for them.
She might also be "touch and go"-ing which, to me, would indicate her uncertainty about her current course of action. Court days etc triggering her uncertainty.
I'm sorry about your toothache. I hope you get in to the dentist soon and get some relief.
And I hope your grandson get the help he needs.
I cry when people show they care for me too. It touches that need in us that we work hard to keep covered up.
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My mom got a toothache while we were in Minnesota visiting my brother and nothing would help it. We went to a wine tasting at a nearby winery and guess what? Toothache went away and didn't come back the whole vacation lol. Do you like wine B?
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Hmmmm - grandma seems to be around quite a bit more now than she used to be. I love that.
I was thinking the same! 😊
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Interesting grandma developments. Any movement is good, isn't it.
How are you today, Brain?
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Thanks for asking cuz! :)
I hate to complain but this morning's a bit difficult. I didn't sleep well last night because of the pain in my jaw. It's not really a toothache. When I get tense I clench my jaw and I think I grind my teeth at night. Then my jaw muscles spasm and the pain radiates into my teeth, my ear, and all the way down the side of my head. Acetaminophen seems to be helping and I'm icing and heating it. Xanax helps at night but puts me to sleep so I don't dare to take it during the day. I've been thinking of going to urgent care but all they could do is give me a muscle relaxer and that will make me sleepy too. Sorry about the complaints. Nobody in RL even knows my jaw hurts.
I've been thinking about the guy we raced to the hospital yesterday. One of my EMT friends shared something on FB yesterday that said something like this.
Saying EMTs and firefighters aren't affected by what they see and do is like saying somebody can walk through water without getting wet.
The things I see and do don't really bother me. Bad things happen and somebody needs to be there and I'm proud that it can be me. But they sometimes make me think. I live in a small town so quite often I know the people we're transporting. I went to school with the guy we transported yesterday. He was three years younger than me and he and my younger brother were good friends. He was really popular; easygoing, good looking, and a talented musician. I lost touch with him over the years and I didn't know much about his life until a couple of months ago. His house is just around the corner from D32's and the street was filled with cops and fire trucks when his house was raided and he was arrested for running a meth lab. When we picked him up yesterday he was back home living alone while awaiting trial. Nobody had heard from him for a couple of days. He'd been lying on the floor for an unknown amount of time and was hypothermic among other things. We wanted too fly him to the city but the bird wasn't available so we transported him to our local hospital. He was still alive when we left the ER but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he didn't make it.
It's a shame he's ended up the way he has. He obviously made some bad choices and now they've caught up with him. OTOH, I tried to do all of the right things yet here I am, 57yo, living by myself and alone most of the time and I could understand it if my wife had died but I still can't wrap my mind around this.
I think it's possible that my wife spending more time with the family could be a good sign. Or not. The last two times I spoke with my wife she made a point of telling me she's not on FB anymore because she can't handle the drama. I agreed that there's a lot of drama but I told her I've been on it quite a bit because I'm friends on FB now with a lot of my friends from the fire department and ambulance squad. This morning I noticed she had liked something D32 just posted so it looks like she's back on FB. Does it mean anything? Who knows? It could be hopeful but I'm afraid to have hope now that I'm just 54 days from DDay. But I had a good cry when I saw it and that made my jaw feel a little better.
I'd better get my day started. I'm driving to the city today and staying overnight so I can be there early in the morning to run the half marathon. And some good news. I have my online course ready for next week so I'm off for the rest of the week.
Thanks for being my online therapy group. Sorry about the long answer to your short question UKS.
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It's possible it is not a toothache...look up trigeminal neuralgia because your symptoms sound somewhat like this condition.
Sorry you are having pain. :'(
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You might to try a sleep guard - it is to prevent you from grinding your teeth.
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On the jaw front, I would suggest just working on the muscles in your shoulders and back, in order to release the neck/jaw ones. I used to get 'jaw ache' and it was just caused by tension, I'm sure of it, as I don't get it at all now that I don't get the same stresses at work. If necessary, do the old raising both shoulders - and hold - exercise. And then perhaps some more arm circling. Pilates is a tremendous thing, too...
Hope you get rid of it soon, Brain. It can be exhausting.
Would love to come ride on the ambulance with you all one day. I think it would put things in perspective for me, and show me how lucky I am . . .
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Mbib
I was going to suggest a night guard also
I have the same problem when I'm stressed they help
My dentist thought at first was TMJ but the night guards do help
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Thank you for all of the tips. I went to Urgent Care today and got a prescription for a muscle relaxer which I'm not going to start until tomorrow so that I don't sleep through my race. UKS is right about the tension being in my entire upper body but the worst of it is in my TMJ. I'll survive.
They're going to have free massages tomorrow at the finish line so now I have a good reason to run fast. Get there early and beat the crowds. :)
Our patient from yesterday morning was airlifted to the stroke center in the city but he didn't make it.
Time for me to get to bed. Tomorrow's half marathon starts at 0730.
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I'm glad you went to urgent care. Jaw pain can be indicative of so many things. I am so so sorry that the patient didn't make it. It has to be much worse when it's someone you've known.
Good luck for the race tomorrow - enjoy the free massage.
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Report back on the half marathon - and whether the massage helped!
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It was a good race. I averaged 7:47 per mile for 13.1 miles which placed me 8th in my age group out of 78 and 189th overall out of 2111. I told my brother later today that I need to start looking at things differently. I look at those numbers and I see the 7 in my age group and the 188 overall who finished ahead of me without paying much attention to the 70 in my age group and over 1900 overall who finished behind me.
The massage was great. There were two pretty girls giving massages and one big. muscular guy and I got the guy. :( Probably just as well as he was very good. Everyone was having their legs massaged but my legs were fine so he massaged my shoulders and neck for me. He found a lot of knots. It hurt really good. He'd ask does this hurt and I'd answer yes it does, don't stop. I don't know if it was the run or the massage but for several hours the pain in my jaw and teeth went away. It's back again but not as severe. Tonight I'm going to take the muscle relaxer before I go to bed. I have two alarms clocks set to make sure I don't oversleep.
My wife seems to have gotten over being unable to handle all of the drama on FB. My brother posted a picture of the start of the race and commented wishing me good luck. My wife liked his post and also commented good luck. I would be encouraged by that if she weren't divorcing me. It always comes back to that.
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Congratulations!!!!! Top 10 in your age group is fantastic!!!!!!
I like that she wished you good luck. Subtle shifts towards more connection are positive and she's actually displayed quite a few shifts recently. I so wish there was a way to stop this divorce that I know you don't want.
Glad the massage helped. Sleep well.
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Oh my BIG CONGRATULATIONS !!!
That time was spectacular !
It really is something to be proud of certainly.
For my own reference as to running, what will you do tomorrow as to recovery ? A day off exercise totally ? Lift weights ? Light jog ? When will you resume a normal running schedule ? I've read different recommendations and am unsure as to what the best protocol is afterwards.
LP
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Congratulations MB! I'm glad the massage helped. :)
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HUGE well done MB,
You should be feeling very proud of yourself. You must be SUPER fit!!!
X
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Wow, awesome time!!! My X has never done 7 minute miles. Just awesome.
Congratulations MB! :)
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Thank you everyone. It's been fun exploring this unexpected talent for running that I found. God has blessed me in many ways. I'm not sure why. I sometimes wonder why God's given me so much. I keep thinking of Luke 12:48.
For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I know I've been blessed but I'm not clear about what's expected.
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or as Stan Lee likes to say:
With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.
MBIB:
I know I've been blessed but I'm not clear about what's expected.
A life of fighting crime and web slinging, you crazy mutant superhero.
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Weird you should be thinking like that B bc l've wondered similar for the last few yrs now too.
Yet lately it's like it's all just amounted to this and to where l am at now , like nothing , nowhere , all wasted , not even happy.
And now that l've depressed your thread , l'll be off. 8)
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I told my brother later today that I need to start looking at things differently. I look at those numbers and I see the 7 in my age group and the 188 overall who finished ahead of me without paying much attention to the 70 in my age group and over 1900 overall who finished behind me.
Yup, that's true, the looking differently. It's classic, isn't it, to look at the negs and not the positives. Even after I've read half a dozen books that tell me to remember the good stuff, I forget to do it. Some of us are ingrained with this stuff. We have to keeping fighting to build the mental muscle to go with the physical. Physically, you're great, MBIB. Now you can do similar with your once-broken (see what I did there?) brain....
Your pretty girl radar seems well and truly functioning. I would take that as a good sign. ;)
Isn't it weird the massage helped the jaw? Didn't I tell you so? You're tense. That starts with the mental thing, too, of course.
I don't get how friendly your W is being given the D. Doesn't make sense. Anyone about to inflict a D on someone would not normally be normal. Just not possible. Guilt and human kindness sort of prevent it. Could you do it? I couldn't... So what is she up to? Compartmentalising like crazy, maybe.
Yet lately it's like it's all just amounted to this and to where l am at now , like nothing , nowhere , all wasted , not even happy.
This does resonate with me, sadly. And yet.... still we have to keep walking onwards. Running, in your case, Brain. Because tomorrow is always different. And new people come along, and new records get broken and the past does grow dimmer in the rearview mirror. Eventually it does. It just does. Never thought I'd say that.
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Elray.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you are tooo funny!
CONGRATS MB.
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Congratulations on the race, Brain.
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Congratulations on the race! That is just awesome! When my brother got a divorce his lawyer and her lawyer were constantly cancelling and rescheduling for later dates. It took my brother 4 yrs to get divorced and he wanted one. Of couse they couldn't agree on anything and they had kids so that was part of the problem. Can't your lawyer do that a couple times B. Maybe a mysterious illness or a personal emergency or two? Then maybe you could be unavailable because they are desperately in need of an EMT that day. I know you can't drag it on forever, but maybe a few times will buy you a couple months.
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I don't get how friendly your W is being given the D. Doesn't make sense. Anyone about to inflict a D on someone would not normally be normal. Just not possible. Guilt and human kindness sort of prevent it. Could you do it? I couldn't... So what is she up to? Compartmentalising like crazy, maybe.
This is what's driving me crazy. She still enjoys talking with me. She trusts me. She respects me. She's concerned about me. She's still interested in my races. She doesn't want anything about our house or my life to change. She just doesn't want to be with me or to be married to me.
It makes me think that if I were smarter I could figure out a way to turn this around.
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And even in the darkness, even in the questions
Even when the hardest times of life are at hand
Yeah, even in the darkness, even in the questions
Even in the times that I'm not meant to understand
Oh, I will trust, I will trust You
I will trust You, Lord, with all my heart
Oh, I will trust, I will trust You
I will trust You, Lord, with all my heart
And I won't forget how good You are
No, I won't forget how good You are
Trust
Matt Hammitt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRMivc5vB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRMivc5vB4)
I just heard this song for the first time tonight and I have a question. Where does this trust come from?
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l know exactly what you mean. l'm sure that given the right buttons l could've too and l often still think that as late as just last wk.
l've pressed all of them , but l know there's more.
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I just heard this song for the first time tonight and I have a question. Where does this trust come from?
This trust comes from experience, in my opinion. It comes from recognizing that the Lord is sovereign.
Proverbs 3:5-6New International Version (NIV)
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
With "all" your heart and "lean not on your own understanding"!
When you look back on your life (I have 54 years to look back on) you can see where the Lord has helped you, provided for you, turned bad things to good, also you can see the 'bad' things that have been allowed in your life - there have been plenty in my life! This is why I trust with all my heart even when I don't understand. I consider the fact that if I am still here, it is due to His mercies which are new every morning!.
I am sorry if I answered more than you bargained for :)
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I am sorry if I answered more than you bargained for :)
I wouldn't ask questions if I were unwilling to hear all of the answers. :)
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The hospital GS11 is in is an hour's drive from where I live. Monday evening D32 asked me if I would drive her there on Tuesday for a family meeting with his counselor so I didn't go to work yesterday. The appointment wasn't until 1:30pm so I decided to go for a short run yesterday morning. I start my runs at D32's house in town. While driving there I decided to stop at the dentist's office to see if I could schedule an appointment for him to look at my teeth.
The receptionist told me to go on back, he'd see me right away. I have a dental bridge spanning the lower three molars on the left side, the side that was bothering me. After taking an xray my dentist told me that the rear of the bridge was loose because the underlying tooth was coming apart. An hour later he had turned a $3000 bridge into a $1000 crown by cutting off and removing the back two thirds. Then he pulled the rear anchor tooth, my rearmost molar. I never did get my run in yesterday.
We had a good visit with GS11 at the hospital. His counselor said they're working with him and he is doing well. We visited with him after the meeting and he said he doesn't really like it there but that he knows he isn't ready to return home.
Last night GD14 went with me to the fire hall. She wants to become a junior firefighter. It was equipment night so all that we did was go through the trucks, inventory all of the equipment to make sure nothing was missing, and check to make sure everything worked properly. It's kind of boring but GD14 enjoyed it. She got to sit in the pumper and climb around on the back of it. The boy who had been bothering her was there but he was smart and kept his distance. She wasn't bothered by his presence like I was afraid she might be. I guess she felt safe. She spent most of the night with me and her 6'5" cousin.
This morning my jaw is sore but that's just physical pain so I know it will eventually go away. On the way to the hospital yesterday D32 told me that my wife drove GD14 to the hospital yesterday afternoon to see GS11. I asked her if they went after my wife got done at work and she said no, her mother had taken another day off and she added that she thinks my wife is ready to quit her job. If she can hold on until the end of next January she'll be 55 and she'll be old enough to retire although it would be at her pension would be much less than if she waits until she's 62.
I'm tired this morning. This life is exhausting. DDay minus 50 days.
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MyBrainIsBroken,
This is a comment to a post on another thread, but I feel it is better put on your own story thread.
While you [RainbowGal] were bearing witness, did you happen to notice Stayed and one or two others directing personal attacks at my family on my thread? Attacking my daughter and granddaughter who they have never met? Did you notice me closing the thread to put an end to the attacks? Did you notice Stayed abusing her power as a moderator by reopening my closed thread so that she could attack my family again? But I'm the who who gets publicly chastised?
Are you referring to the incident from 3 months ago?
Not all moderators are so attentive that they notice when a thread is locked and since we have posting abilities on locked threads...well we make mistakes. You don’t have to believe that Stayed did not realize the thread was locked and that's fine; I believe she didn't realize it. As for her comment being an attack. [SIGH] It certainly pulled no punches. I have said that a person can be attacking and yet not intending to attack. But I don’t think her post was an attack; I think it was said in a hmmm, harsh or tough way, whereas I or someone else may have tried to say the same thing or message with a softer approach and maybe her message did not come through. I've looked back at the incident and read the excerpt—though maybe what I read was only a part, so I might not have it all. (I also read it 3 months ago, but needed a refresher now) I think I can see how her message may not have come through because even I have to guess at it. As I said she pulled no punches in being tough about how she spoke, but I guess she may not have been direct in what her words meant. I have an idea what she may have meant, but I may be wrong.
Without quoting I will attempt to say what she said. She said that your daughter is a case of learned helplessness. Now understand that all most of us here have to go on is what you have posted and given what you have posted and given that I think she makes an excellent point. Take the sting out of it and just read the message...P-L-E-A-S-E. Maybe that comment alone was not what was so upsetting though. She then poor babied you. Poor you, poor wife, poor daughter...
I did the poor baby thing to Chuck once during his MLC—and it was deliberate at that time. I said something like Oh poor baby doesn't like it when I call him on his $h!te. I said it in a sing-song baby voice, so yeah it was a tease and I was not trying to be nice; in that circumstance it was a Truth Dart and it was not one he was meant to like. It was meant to shock him a bit and it did. But with him it was one of those things where he said stop treating him like a baby and I said he made a good point, but it would be a lot easier if he stopped acting like one...and for him that jolted him and he acknowledged my point.
So for you, why was Stayed doing/saying that to you in that way? I got the opportunity to explain my words to Chuck. What was Stayed's message, maybe that is what you lost? I got it I think and so did a lot of us and I think I told her at the time it wasn't working with you, even though that sort of thing works quite effectively with others.
So why not with you? Okay, more guessing here...
When a person is in denial, they are not going to see the part between the lines and I think you are in denial.
You are an enabler (and likely codependent, as I think they go together). This is also what LawProfessor was saying to you back then. You daughter is a case of learned Helplessness because you enable her—because you rescue her and take care of her and make sure she has a soft place to fall. Hey, we get wanting a soft place to fall for those we love, but there also comes a time when the person needs to learn to solve their own problems and that involves a big risk because they might fail and you are really worried not just about what might happen to your daughter, but what of her children—it's not their fault if she messes up, right? Why should they suffer for that?
The poor babying also is a message about being a victim and sometimes a martyr. You seem to wallow a lot. You have been feeling sorry for yourself and it is important to be needed and you daughter is needy for you; maybe you feel you have a purpose.
Well, you have a bigger purpose than taking care of and rescuing others. What you are doing is crippling her. What would happen to her if you were suddenly not there to rescue her—like if a bus suddenly ran you down and RIP MyBrainIsBroken. My Mom's goal as a parent was to raise a healthy well-adjusted adult. She came to that in a class she was taking and she either finalized it there or later while teaching pre-school. It's good, but I think I've revised it to show some of the things that must be a part of that. In addition to my mother's original goal, my goal is to raise independent and fully-functioning adults—those are natural byproducts of her goal. Sometimes I say independent-minded to include a scenario of physical dependency.
Is your daughter an independent, well-adjusted and fully functioning adult? And if she is not, why? What can be done now to get her to that place? What can be done to get your children there? Are you helping or hindering? Sometimes helping hinders, are you doing that instead?
I'm not trying to imply you are or are not with my questions; I'm giving you questions to ask for yourself.
You are an enigma to me in many ways. You seem as though you care a lot and in that you seem a sweet and kind man. But then you also seem like you are a codependent enabler who is stuck in victim-mode and who lashes out when you feel threatened—perhaps when someone says something that shows you a mirror. Being kind and being a victim are not mutually exclusive, but I usually sense one or the other.
You are also pretty darned amazing...I mean seriously, you run marathons! What that says to me is that you can be mentally strong because in some areas of your life you are. Now take the skills and attitude you use there and apply them to the other areas of your life. Maybe that is why you can be frustrating—we know you can do what you are not doing.
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This is quite possibly the most disappointing thing I have ever read in my entire time at Hero Spouse.
I have no doubt that what I have to say will be dismissed as some kind of allegiance to MB. It isn’t. I would do this on any thread, of anyone, who was treated in this fashion.
I also anticipate, based on previous experience, my questions may be perceived as a form of defiance rather than genuine inquiry. If that is that case, it will be a sad reflection of the maturity of this community, and commentary on the ability to practice “agape” love.
RCR, please help me understand a few things.
On April 17, you said this on H!383’s thread. I would use the quote, but the quote function is disabled;
“I am ashamed and disappointed at the behaviour of a few here on this thread. If you are not now aware of who you are, you will be by the end of my post.”
I often feel the same way. Under what parameters can members of HS also feel free to express such disappointment? And identify who has disappointed them?
In the same post, still with the quote function disabled, you said this:
“These posts from Onward and Xyzcf have me shaking my head and I am so sorry, I feel like banging my head against a wall and maybe even screaming a little.
Do you not get it? This is HL383's story thread—his place for journaling not merely his story, but his confusions, his emotions and his place of jotting down his ideas and questions in order to sort through them and figure things out.”
RCR, this is MBIBs story thread. It is his place for journaling not merely his story, but his confusions, his emotions and his place of jotting down his ideas and questions in order to sort through them and figure things out.
Why is it that you are not also shaking your head and so sorry and banging your head against a wall and maybe even screaming just a little at those folks who would label him an enabler for supporting his daughter and her family after the daughter’s husband committed suicide and she required help?
And on the same unquotable thread:
“Were he a moderator offering advice to others, yes his comments might undermine hope. But he is not a moderator, he is a lost LBS.”
It is worth remembering MBIB is a lost LBS, too.
On a different note, if this is true:
I've looked back at the incident and read the excerpt—though maybe what I read was only a part, so I might not have it all. (I also read it 3 months ago, but needed a refresher now) I think I can see how her message may not have come through because even I have to guess at it. As I said she pulled no punches in being tough about how she spoke, but I guess she may not have been direct in what her words meant. I have an idea what she may have meant, but I may be wrong.
Then may I kindly suggest you may not have the full picture. In a private message a while ago (which I will honour by keeping private) you did indicate that you read more of the moderator board than the forum, so it is entirely understandable if you may not have the full context, tone and history of many conversations.
It is disappointing that one would ‘diagnose’ any particular member of HS, as that is not the purpose of this forum (at least not as I understand it). There are plenty of labels one could apply to members of this board, including me, and it is unkind, and dismissive and can contribute to an environment where people may feel decidedly unsafe.
Not to mention most members here are not trained therapists, and among those who are, diagnosing would be unethical.
And finally:
Maybe that is why you can be frustrating—we know you can do what you are not doing.
Who is “we”?
And why does "we" feel the need to control what MB does or does not do?
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Against my better judgement I am going to respond to a few of the points made in this post.
MyBrainIsBroken,
This is a comment to a post on another thread, but I feel it is better put on your own story thread.
While you [RainbowGal] were bearing witness, did you happen to notice Stayed and one or two others directing personal attacks at my family on my thread? Attacking my daughter and granddaughter who they have never met? Did you notice me closing the thread to put an end to the attacks? Did you notice Stayed abusing her power as a moderator by reopening my closed thread so that she could attack my family again? But I'm the who who gets publicly chastised?
Are you referring to the incident from 3 months ago?
Not all moderators are so attentive that they notice when a thread is locked and since we have posting abilities on locked threads...well we make mistakes.
I was taught to apologize when I make a mistake. In fact, I did apologize to the forum in the post that's referenced here. I wrote that I'm sorry if I've used sarcasm in any of my posts and I meant it. But I have a hard time believing Stayed made a mistake because I've never received any indication of remorse or regret. In fact, I was told that's just how she is. And this will be post 3738 for me on the forum and I've started and finished well over a dozen threads of my own and this is the first time I've ever seen a thread accidentally reopened by a moderator. So I'm sorry if I've misjudged Stayed but I haven't experienced anything that would make me believe her posting on my thread after it was closed wasn't intentional.
You don’t have to believe that Stayed did not realize the thread was locked and that's fine; I believe she didn't realize it. As for her comment being an attack. [SIGH] It certainly pulled no punches. I have said that a person can be attacking and yet not intending to attack. But I don’t think her post was an attack; I think it was said in a hmmm, harsh or tough way, whereas I or someone else may have tried to say the same thing or message with a softer approach and maybe her message did not come through.
I was taught that you can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. I realize not everyone learned the same lessons but I have reason to believe this statement is true.
I've looked back at the incident and read the excerpt—though maybe what I read was only a part, so I might not have it all. (I also read it 3 months ago, but needed a refresher now) I think I can see how her message may not have come through because even I have to guess at it. As I said she pulled no punches in being tough about how she spoke, but I guess she may not have been direct in what her words meant. I have an idea what she may have meant, but I may be wrong.
I also believe I understood what her words meant but I also acknowledge that I could be wrong. My interpretation is based on my previous interactions with Stayed, just as I suspect yours are based on your previous interactions with her. And you and I are in entirely different positions when we interact with Stayed.
Without quoting I will attempt to say what she said. She said that your daughter is a case of learned helplessness. Now understand that all most of us here have to go on is what you have posted and given what you have posted and given that I think she makes an excellent point. Take the sting out of it and just read the message...P-L-E-A-S-E. Maybe that comment alone was not what was so upsetting though. She then poor babied you. Poor you, poor wife, poor daughter...
This was derisive and demeaning towards me and my family and it didn't help Stayed get her message across in any way. Would it have worked with somebody else? I don't know because I don't address people like that.
I did the poor baby thing to Chuck once during his MLC—and it was deliberate at that time. I said something like Oh poor baby doesn't like it when I call him on his $h!te. I said it in a sing-song baby voice, so yeah it was a tease and I was not trying to be nice; in that circumstance it was a Truth Dart and it was not one he was meant to like. It was meant to shock him a bit and it did. But with him it was one of those things where he said stop treating him like a baby and I said he made a good point, but it would be a lot easier if he stopped acting like one...and for him that jolted him and he acknowledged my point.
I understand this is an example but for the record I never asked Stayed to quit treating me like a baby.
So for you, why was Stayed doing/saying that to you in that way? I got the opportunity to explain my words to Chuck. What was Stayed's message, maybe that is what you lost? I got it I think and so did a lot of us and I think I told her at the time it wasn't working with you, even though that sort of thing works quite effectively with others.
So why not with you? Okay, more guessing here...
When a person is in denial, they are not going to see the part between the lines and I think you are in denial.
I wish you were right. I'd love to be in denial. Unfortunately, I have to live with this situation every day of my life.
You are an enabler (and likely codependent, as I think they go together). This is also what LawProfessor was saying to you back then.
I really worried that I might be. A few weeks after BD my oldest brother told me I was codependent. He should know. He's an alcoholic with over 25 years of recovery and over the years he's been involved in a lot of situations that involved enabling and codependency. But after a few months of talking with me several times a week he told me he had changed his mind. He said that I'm not codependent. He told me that he had decided that I deeply love and miss my wife.
I started seeing a therapist a few months after BD and continued seeing her weekly for almost 6 months. I also started seeing my pastor, who is very intelligent and a skilled counselor, and I met with him weekly for over a year. After 6 months with my first counselor we decided I was dealing with PTSD related issues. I told her I wanted to see the best trauma therapist she could find and she referred me to the woman I've been seeing for the past 14 months. During that time I've seen her once a week every week even though her office is 90 minutes from my house.
I've asked all of these people multiple times, "What is wrong with me?" I really wanted to know so that I could fix myself. I freely admit that I was damaged during my childhood by the things I experienced and they all agree that I have incident related PTSD that's associated with BD and that I also have Complex-PTSD from childhood. But according to them I'm not codependent, I'm not narcissistic, I'm not BPD or a sociopath or afflicted with any other personality disorder. They did tell me that I'm highly sensitive, extremely empathic, and deeply in love with my wife.
You daughter is a case of learned Helplessness because you enable her—because you rescue her and take care of her and make sure she has a soft place to fall.
Guilty. Both my wife and I are guilty of having enabled my daughter. We knew it. We discussed it. And we agreed that we didn't like it but that we were going to do it anyway. I don't need to justify our decision but I will explain why we made this decision.
Eight years ago my daughter's husband was cheating on her. No MLC. He was just a broken person. She gave him several chances, took him back several times, then finally decided she'd had enough. She had him served with divorce papers. Two days later he killed himself. He went to a property his father owned where they'd gone the week before for a picnic, found a tall tree, and hung himself. She was there when his body was found. He left her with a 6 year old daughter, a 3 year old son, and an infant son. And his death practically destroyed her.
But the story gets better. She wanted to go to his funeral. He had cheated on her and she was divorcing him but she hadn't stopped loving him. Hard to believe, right? Well, she almost didn't go to his funeral because his whole family blamed her for his suicide. One of his aunt's even told her that he'd still be alive if she hadn't had him served. But the aunt didn't need to tell her that because she already believed it. So we accompanied her to the funeral and we supported her and helped her to get through it.
So this was her background. And now she's a single mother with three children and a high school diploma living in a society that makes it almost impossible for someone in her situation to ever get off from public assistance. Add to this the area we live in, which is part of Appalachia and is one of the poorest areas in our state with few job opportunities.
So the only sensible thing for her to do is to go out and get another man to take care if her, right? Isn't that what you'd do? Well she did. Several guys, one after the other, who were just as broken as her and she would up supporting them instead of them helping to support her. But at least she didn't have to be alone.
The other option she had available to her was to move out of the area and away from the family that was providing her with emotional support and go someplace where there would be more opportunity. But she didn't want to move, our grandchildren didn't want to move, and we didn't want them to move. So we selfishly decided to enable her although we considered it to be a subsidy that made it possible for her to continue to live near us.
Hey, we get wanting a soft place to fall for those we love, but there also comes a time when the person needs to learn to solve their own problems and that involves a big risk because they might fail and you are really worried not just about what might happen to your daughter, but what of her children—it's not their fault if she messes up, right? Why should they suffer for that?
The poor babying also is a message about being a victim and sometimes a martyr. You seem to wallow a lot. You have been feeling sorry for yourself and it is important to be needed and you daughter is needy for you; maybe you feel you have a purpose.
You don't know me at all. I haven't spent one moment of one day my entire life feeling sorry for myself. I've been blessed and I know it. I'm a reasonably tall, intelligent, well educated white male who grew up in a society where all of those characteristics were highly prized and I live in a country where I've had the opportunity to do whatever I chose with my life. But I do feel sorry for my daughter and my grandchildren because of the situation they're in and I feel sorry for my wife because I don't think she would have chosen to do the things she's doing if she weren't going through an MLC and because she didn't ask to be emotionally, physically, and sexually abused when she was a child.
As far as my daughter being needy, you have that backwards. I'm the needy one. I need the connection that I have with her and my grandchildren. I have spent time with her and my grandchildren almost every day since BD. On BD she was the one who held me while I cried at 3am. She was the one who drove 20 miles to be with me the day I decided I'd lived too long. I don't know how I would have gotten this far without her and my grandchildren.
I've been told that there are a couple of terms that describe my condition better than to say that I'm wallowing. One is situational depression. My pastor tells me I'm depressed because I'm in a depressing situation. He says he'd be surprised if I weren't depressed. The other term is ambiguous grief which is a grief that is unresolved due to being in an ambiguous situation, like living on the MLC rollercoaster.
Well, you have a bigger purpose than taking care of and rescuing others. What you are doing is crippling her. What would happen to her if you were suddenly not there to rescue her—like if a bus suddenly ran you down and RIP MyBrainIsBroken. My Mom's goal as a parent was to raise a healthy well-adjusted adult. She came to that in a class she was taking and she either finalized it there or later while teaching pre-school. It's good, but I think I've revised it to show some of the things that must be a part of that. In addition to my mother's original goal, my goal is to raise independent and fully-functioning adults—those are natural byproducts of her goal. Sometimes I say independent-minded to include a scenario of physical dependency.
I guess you're a better parent than I am. But what would you do if you were raising children and you weren't a healthy, well-adjusted adult and you didn't even realize it? And when you finally become more emotionally mature you find that your grown daughter is not a healthy, well-adjusted adult? And then her husband kills himself? And then your wife goes into MLC? How do you deal with that?
Is your daughter an independent, well-adjusted and fully functioning adult? And if she is not, why?
I think I've already answered this.
What can be done now to get her to that place? What can be done to get your children there? Are you helping or hindering? Sometimes helping hinders, are you doing that instead?
Since BD my granddaughter has become a member of our church. Then both grandsons were baptized. A couple of weeks ago my daughter was baptized and she has been attending church regularly. This Sunday both grandsons are scheduled to become members of our church. Six months ago my daughter finally admitted she needed help, which was huge for her. Shortly after that she began treatment for depression and PTSD. My granddaughter is being treated for depression and PTSD. My grandson is being treated for depression and other issues related to his father's suicide. After her husband's death my daughter went from one relationship to another, always with guys who were broken, because she couldn't stand to be alone. She recently spent over a year without being in a relationship. She told me it was because she realized she needs to be healthy if she's ever going to have a healthy relationship. She got that idea from talking with me. She just started seeing someone; a really nice guy who is the son of an old friend of mine. He's very kind and very supportive and has probably done more for her in the short time she's been seeing him than all of the other guys did put together. All of this has happened since BD.
That's not to say that everything is roses and rainbows. It's not good that they have these issues but at least now they're being treated. It looks like we're making progress but it takes TIME. I'm sure you're familiar with that concept. On the negative side, last October GD14 was hospitalized following a suicide attempt. She told my wife she did it because she couldn't stand to see her grandma hurting everyone. GS11 is in the hospital now because he has been having suicidal urges. He told the counselors he misses his father. This isn't an easy situation that I'm living with. Maybe I do occasionally wallow. I don't know. Sometimes life is hard. That's not a complaint. It's just an observation. Please don't accuse me of feeling sorry for myself.
Am I helping? I know without my emotional and financial help my daughter would have jumped into another relationship, most likely another bad one. I know without my guidance she probably wouldn't have decided she needed help and gone for counseling. Without my leadership none of them would be involved with the church because there were a lot of Sundays where I was going by myself. Maybe somebody else could have done better. I don't know. Maybe I should have done better but it is what it is. My intentions were good. But who knows? They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm not trying to imply you are or are not with my questions; I'm giving you questions to ask for yourself.
Thank you. I'm trying hard to not write a sarcastic response here. I'm extremely introspective and I've asked myself these questions over and over. I don't seem to be able to come up with different answers or better solutions but I'll admit that my brain is broken.
You are an enigma to me in many ways.
This is good. If I ever decide to try dating I've been told that women love a mystery man. That was a joke. Haha.
This is why I prefer face to face communications. There's a lot of opportunity for miscommunication in this type of forum.
You seem as though you care a lot and in that you seem a sweet and kind man.
Thank you. My friends would agree with you and I think my EMS patients would also agree with you. My enemies wouldn't but I don't have any enemies in RL, only on THS.
But then you also seem like you are a codependent enabler who is stuck in victim-mode and who lashes out when you feel threatened—perhaps when someone says something that shows you a mirror.
Don't hold back. Feel free to say what you think. Don't worry about hurting my feelings. :D
Actually, I mean that. Say what you want to about me. I thought it was kind of funny when the cowboy was calling me a girly boy or whatever it was. It still makes me laugh. I find it easy to ignore comments that I know are not true. But I'm extremely loyal and fiercely protective of my family and friends. Maybe in that respect I am a rescuer but I don't care. If you mess with my family or friends I take it personally.
Being kind and being a victim are not mutually exclusive, but I usually sense one or the other.
You are also pretty darned amazing...I mean seriously, you run marathons!
Thank you but running is easy. All you have to do is put one foot in front of the other.
What that says to me is that you can be mentally strong because in some areas of your life you are. Now take the skills and attitude you use there and apply them to the other areas of your life. Maybe that is why you can be frustrating—we know you can do what you are not doing.
Really? You only know what I've chosen to write. In reality I'm not even a man. I'm actually a 43 year old woman.
OK, I have to take that back because I have friends here who are on FB and know the truth. But you don't really know what I'm doing and you don't know what I'm capable of doing and I don't believe that you know what I should be doing. This is what I find frustrating. I'm not a baby. I have a mind of my own and I'm not afraid of using it. And I'm open minded enough to listen to whatever anybody suggests. And I think there are a lot of other LBSes here like me. So feel free to make suggestions but don't tell us your (other forum members) way is right and ours is wrong unless you have empirical evidence to support it. And when it comes to MLC that's in pretty short supply.
Disclaimer!!
I am not a therapist; I have no training in counseling. I offer no guarantees with my coaching-advice.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/coaching.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/coaching.html)
No disrespect intended. I post this to point out that there are very few counselors posting in this forum and none that I know of are providing counseling services through the forum. And even if there were, I don't believe many counselors have the training to understand MLC. So we're receiving support and ideas here, which is great, but not we're not expecting counseling or advice.
This is an excellent site. I wish I had never needed a site like this one but since I do I'm glad that I found this site. The articles are well written, insightful, and informative and I like the Jungian tie-in. The forum for the most part has been very helpful and supportive and I've had the opportunity to chat on here with people from around the world who I've never met in person but consider to be good friends. I'd love to be able to travel the world some day and meet each and every one of my THS friends. That would be a glorious trip!
But it would be even better if I could take my wife on that trip with me. I came here because I wanted to reconcile with my wife. I still do. I understand that some LBSes change their mind over time and I'm ok with that but I don't expect to be one of them. But so far I haven't found one person who can tell me what I can do to ensure my wife will return, not one person who can tell me indisputably when she will return, and not one person who can guarantee she will return. But I do occasionally run across members telling me or others what we need to do. Sometimes passionately declaring what should be done or what shouldn't be done. Their way or the highway. I agree with most of the things that are suggested for the betterment of the LBS but even those should be suggestions, not dictates. We all have unique situations and we may all have circumstances that nobody on THS is aware of. I would normally make exceptions for newbies but I would expect that moderators would present their comments as suggestions, not as dictates.
12 step meetings are very powerful tools for recovery. One that I'm personally familiar with is Alanon. One of the basic principles of Alanon is that we offer our own experience, strength, and hope, focusing on our own life, without criticizing others. Nobody in Alanon has ever told me I'm codependent or that I'm an enabler. And if they did feel I was codependent or an enabler they would offer their experience with codependency and enabling, trusting that I would be smart enough to see myself in their words if they're right about me. That might be a good model to follow.
In a typical AL-ANON meeting, participants share and listen to the experiences, strengths and hopes of one another on a confidential and anonymous basis. Most AL-ANON meetings focus at first on a topic delivered by a lead-off speaker, followed by participants speaking about how that topic relates to their own lives or about other experiences in their lives. Participants are not required to speak, but when they do, they are encouraged to share their own experience, strength and hope, focusing on their own life without gossip or criticism of one another.
One final comment. I just read Onward's posts and in the interests of full disclosure I should state that Onward and I are in cahoots. And also that I've been waiting for a long time to use the word cahoots in a sentence. ;D ;D ;D
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New Thread.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7744.0 (http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7744.0)